위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive980
Wikipedia:| AE로 끌려갔다.swarm 01:40, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
(원래 NPOV 게시판에 게시된 [1]은 이것을 여기로 가져오라는 지시를 받았다.)이스라엘까지 추적할 수 있는 이 IP는 NPOV에 붙어 있지 않을 수도 있는데, 적어도 나에게는 그렇게 보인다.이 모든 편집은 지난 달에 이루어졌다.그들 편집의 90%는 이스라엘 관련 페이지에 게재되었다.사용자는 많은 편집 요약에서 NPOV를 비논리적으로 인용하지만, 각각의 편집 자체는 오해의 소지가 있거나 파괴적이다.사용자 토크 페이지에 메시지를 남겼지만 응답이 없었고, 편집 패턴이 이어지고 있다.나는 이 편집들을 되돌린 것은 나 자신만이 아니라는 것을 알아야 한다.또한 사용자:케이커징
1. 인식되지 않는 도시 현황: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Knesset&diff=prev&oldid=830972380&diffmode=source사용자는 정확한 정보가 NPOV가 아니라고 주장하면서 이를 제거하며, 또한 "비정규적인 정보"라고 말한다.동예루살렘은 국제사회에서 이스라엘의 일부로 인정된 적이 없다(그들은 1980년 이곳을 합병했다).
2. 부정확한 편집 및 오해의 소지가 있는 요약https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Church_of_the_Nativity&diff=prev&oldid=831948510&diffmode=source.사용자가 "NPOV당, 이것을 비워 두는 것이 좋다"고 말한다.이것은 노골적으로 오해의 소지가 있는 편집이다.예수탄생교회는 흔히 팔레스타인에 있는 것으로 알려져 있을 뿐만 아니라, 인용된 UNESCO.org 페이지 링크에는 심지어 "팔레스타인"이라고 적혀 있다.
3. '팔레스타인' 제거 / '이스라엘'로 대체여기 다음 7편집에서https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hani_al-Hassan&diff=prev&oldid=832261745&diffmode=source,https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edmond_Bonan&diff=prev&oldid=832261774&diffmode=source,. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yehoram_Gaon&diff=prev&oldid=832261790&diffmode=source,https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shlomo_Aronson&diff=prev&oldid=832261927&diffmode=sourceedits , https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=A._B._Yehoshua&diff=prev&oldid=832261945&diffmode=source , https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yaakov_Ades&diff=prev&oldid=832261959&diffmode=source,https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moshe_Safdie&diff=prev&oldid=832261977&diffmode=source ) 사용자는 "Palestine"이 역사적으로 적절함에도 불구하고 기사 또는 기타 섹션의 정보박스로부터 제거된다.팔레스타인은 1948년까지 이스라엘 국가가 성립되지 않았음에도 불구하고 많은 경우에 "이스라엘"로 대체된다.사용자는 편집 내용에 대한 편집 요약을 제공하지 않는다.
4. 족제비 단어 추가(WP:ALLEGED):이 두 편집:https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ireland%E2%80%93Israel_relations&diff=prev&oldid=832807663&diffmode=source&https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ireland%E2%80%93Israel_relations&diff=832813508&oldid=832810111&diffmode=source, 사용자 지속적으로"이른바,"commonly 사용을 추가한다.DWP:이라고 할 수 있는 족제비가 도착한 물건이 증정에 단어이다.ence: 그 전에, 아일랜드는 이스라엘의 유엔 결의안 위반 때문에 관계 수립을 거부했었다.이것은 상식이다.이스라엘은 유엔을 무시한 오랜 역사를 가지고 있으며, 여러 번 결의 위반으로 비난을 받아왔다.R9tkokunks ✡ 18:47, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
- "상식 지식"에 대한 유효한 출처를 찾으십시오.【베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→ 19:06, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
- 2018년 3월 29일 이스라엘9tkokunks 19:09, 유엔 결의안 목록[
- 섹션 3의 처음 몇 가지 편집에 관해서는, IP가 링크를 삭제하는 데는 정확했지만, 반대로 잘못된 버전으로 갔다.올바른 버전은 이전 국가의 출생지에 대한 관례에 따라 필수 팔레스타인이 될 것이다.그러나, 그러한 편집에 대해 I AGF는 "팔레스타인 영토"와 연계하는 것이 오늘날 태어났다면, 이스라엘의 존재를 부정하는 것으로 볼 수 있는 입장이기 때문이다.◆벨레자솔로 2018년 3월 29일 19:23 토론 (UTC)[
- 거짓이다. 세 편집 모두 정확하지 않다.분명히 파괴적인 편집에서 뭔가 긍정적인 것을 얻으려고 하는 것 같아.그건 마치 "이봐, 기사 전체를 다 비웠어... 하지만 적어도 부정확한 점은 없앴어!"그것은 단지 지지적인 논쟁도 아니고 편집하는 엔실코페딕 방식도 아니다.첫 번째는 편집 요약본 없이 완전히 비워두는데, 이것은 일부 사람들에 의해 가능한 반달리즘으로 해석될 수 있다.두 번째와 세 번째 모두 역사적으로 부정확한 "이스라엘"을 덧붙인다.이스라엘은 1948년 이전에는 존재하지 않았다.R9tkokunks✡ 2018년 3월 29일 19:38 (UTC)[
- @R9tkokunks:처음 3개뿐 아니라 적어도 5개야.아니, 이스라엘이 완벽하지는 않지만, PRINGE로 합리적으로 해석되는 팔레스타인 영토보다 낫다.나탈리 포트먼에 대해 많은 논의가 있었다.그것은 내가 보기에 ANI를 보증하는 사건, 더 많은 내용 분쟁(그리고 그렇다, NPOVN은 당신을 이곳으로 옮겼지만, 그것은 행동적 불만사항으로서의 형식 때문이다).◆벨레자솔로 2018년 3월 29일 19시 55분 논의 (UTC) [
- 거짓이다. 세 편집 모두 정확하지 않다.분명히 파괴적인 편집에서 뭔가 긍정적인 것을 얻으려고 하는 것 같아.그건 마치 "이봐, 기사 전체를 다 비웠어... 하지만 적어도 부정확한 점은 없앴어!"그것은 단지 지지적인 논쟁도 아니고 편집하는 엔실코페딕 방식도 아니다.첫 번째는 편집 요약본 없이 완전히 비워두는데, 이것은 일부 사람들에 의해 가능한 반달리즘으로 해석될 수 있다.두 번째와 세 번째 모두 역사적으로 부정확한 "이스라엘"을 덧붙인다.이스라엘은 1948년 이전에는 존재하지 않았다.R9tkokunks✡ 2018년 3월 29일 19:38 (UTC)[
- 섹션 3의 처음 몇 가지 편집에 관해서는, IP가 링크를 삭제하는 데는 정확했지만, 반대로 잘못된 버전으로 갔다.올바른 버전은 이전 국가의 출생지에 대한 관례에 따라 필수 팔레스타인이 될 것이다.그러나, 그러한 편집에 대해 I AGF는 "팔레스타인 영토"와 연계하는 것이 오늘날 태어났다면, 이스라엘의 존재를 부정하는 것으로 볼 수 있는 입장이기 때문이다.◆벨레자솔로 2018년 3월 29일 19:23 토론 (UTC)[
- 2018년 3월 29일 이스라엘9tkokunks 19:09, 유엔 결의안 목록[
여기에 편집자 이름을 붙인 부록을 추가하려고 하는데, 사전 편집에도 관여하고 있다.편집자는 WP:위키백과에서 존 헤지, 아일랜드-이스라엘 관계, NPOV 게시판에 있는 아논 IP를 되돌리는 것에 관한 나의 편집에 따라 나를 위키백과로 안내한다.앞의 두 기사도 명명된 아논 IP에 의해 편집의 대상이 되어 왔기 때문에, 이것에 체크 유저가 있어야 한다고 나는 믿고 있다.
사용자들은 명백히 파괴적인 IP의 편집을 지원하게 되었다.사용자는 또한 "알림"의 추가에 참여한다(WP:주장됨), 이것은 극도로 비절제적인 것이다.WP 정책에 위배될 뿐만 아니라 이스라엘이 유엔 결의안을 위반한 전력이 있다는 것은 상식이다.
사용자 또한 내가 편집한 내용에 대해 거짓말을 하고 있다. "헤이파를 팔레스타인 영토에 배치한다?! 그건 네가 편집한 내용 중 하나였어. 노골적으로 FALSE.다른 사용자였습니다.사용자:케커징.
사용자는 겉으로 보기에 "IP가 (완전하지 않은) 오류를 수정하고 있었다"로 IP 편향([2])을 암묵적으로 지지하는 것 같다.이는 특히 편집된 내용을 고려한 이슈의 화이트워싱이며, 그 중 이 사용자는 정보를 삭제하고 이유를 표시하지 않았다.
이 모든 것은 사용자가 내 토크 페이지에 내가 아일랜드-이스라엘 관계에 대한 제재 대신 1RR을 위반했다는 모호한 위협과 경고를 계속 남길 때 절정에 이른다.문제는...그 물품에는 제재가 없다.기사에 재량적 제재가 있었다면 편집 과정에서 페이지 어딘가에 메모가 돼 있을 것이다.나는 이것이 너무 지나친 조치라고 느꼈다.
이와 별도로 IP와 사용자가 동일한지 확인하기 위해 Checkuser를 추천한다.그들은 둘 다 유대인 역사나 이스라엘과 관련된 빈번한 기사들이다.사용자들이 파괴적인 IP를 지원하는 이유가 같은 IP이기 때문인지도 궁금하다.R9tkokunks ✡ 19:05, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)
- WP:폐기물 제재 통지는 "위협 및 경고"가 아니며, 또한 당신이 1RR을 위반했다는 것을 지적하는 것도 아니며, 당신이 당신에게 행정적인 제재를 받지 않도록 되돌려야 한다는 것도 아니다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 2018년 3월 29일 19:53 (UTC)[
- 사용자: 마이 켄을 넘어서, 아일랜드-이스라엘 관계에 대한 제재는 없다.그것은 내 요지의 일부분이다.그렇다고 할 수 있지.특히 사용자가 위키백과에서 내가 편집한 내용을 따라 했기 때문에, 너처럼.R9tkokunks✡ 2018년 3월 29일 19:57 (UTC)[
- 공식적으로 DS가 적용되지만, 편집 통지를 통해서만 시행 가능하다.그러므로 당신에게 알리는 것은 완전히 괜찮았지만, 자기 반전을 요구하는 것은 전혀 용납할 수 없었다.관련 ARCOM 공지사항 ∰Bellezasolo✡ 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC) 토론[
@R9tkokks: "기본적인 역사적 무식"에 대한 당신의 발언은 당신이 잘못 이해한 사람이기 때문에 상당히 유감스럽다.의무적인 팔레스타인은 논의되고 있는 모든 사람들의 정확한 출생지다.여러 게시판이나 대화 페이지에서 다투는 것보다는 마음을 가라앉히고 편집으로 건설적인 일을 하는 게 좋을 것 같아.내가 보기에 IP의 편집은 대부분 되돌리거나 수정되었다.57번 20:15, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
- 너의 논평은 오해의 소지가 있다.거기 댓글은 다 읽지 않은 것 같은데?나는 이스라엘이 유엔 결의안을 위반하고 있으며, 다른 사용자들은 국경 상황이 아닌 그것을 최소화하려고 노력하고 있다.그것은 잘 문서화되어 있다.간단한 구글 검색만으로도 충분하다.또한, 그것은 완전히 사실이 아니다.IP는 내가 "역사적 무지"라고 말했을 때 반박하던 아일랜드-이스라엘 관계 기사에 족제비 단어를 다시 추가함으로써, 내 메시지를 과거에도 계속해서 비슷하게 편집해 왔다.R9tkokunks ✡ 20:19, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
IP는 아랍과 이스라엘의 분쟁과 관련된 편집을 해서는 안 된다.경고했네. --NeilN 21:14, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[하라
- 부메랑 - R9tkokkks Haifa를 팔레스타인 영토에 배치하는 것에 대한 지원은 지지할 수 없으며 WP:CIR 문제(특히 여러 번 반복되고 그러한 속성으로 문제를 인정하지 않을 경우).그는 또한 위의 삼진 부분에서도 나를 보고했고 나에게 제대로 알리지 못했다.ARBPIA 관련 편집 [3][4] (해당 유엔 결의안은 이스라엘-아랍 분쟁과 관련됨)에서 1rr을 위반했을 뿐만 아니라, 제재에 경각심을 갖고 자기회복을 호의적으로 요청받은 후 [5] (그리고 후속 수정 10건)에서 나의 토크 페이지를 인신공격과 비난으로 채웠다.내가 감시하고 있는 NPOV/n과 (NPOV 이사회 포스트에 있었던 것 같은) 2개의 기사에 대한 상호작용을 근거로 한 그의 호킹에 대한 비난은 그야말로 이상하다.위의 긴 토론이 끝난 후에도 그는 여전히 주장된 1rvio를 스스로 되돌리지 않았다는 점에 유의한다.아이스위즈 (talk) 22:40, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC) 부록, 그가 npov/n에 올린 편집 1개의 pf를 참고하여 다른 사용자를 R9tkokunks로 착각한 것에 대해 사과한다.그것은 내 입장에서의 실수였다(그러나, TP에 기재된 것처럼 거짓말을 하는 것은 나의 의도가 아니었다).나는 내가 "거짓말하고 있다"고 통보받자 그것이 만들어진 곳을 잘못 짚었다.아이스위즈 (대화) 22:45, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
- 아이스위즈가 R9tkokkunks에 대해 AE에 고발했다는 점에 유의하십시오.따라서 4일 동안 아무런 기여도 없었던 이 실타래는 아마도 닫힐 수 있을 것이다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 15:19, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
대량 되돌리기 필요
어제 약 23:15분에서 오늘 12:20분 사이, UTC, 오늘, 사용자:래스펠더는 그 사람들을 제거했다. country=경찰력에 관한 기사에 관한 {{Infobox 법 집행 기관}}의 많은 사례에서, 이 예와 같이, 템플릿이 기사를 분류하는 방식이 마음에 들지 않기 때문에 그런 것으로 보인다.많은 경우에, 이것은 (동일한 예)처럼 표시된 텍스트를 남긴다.in the country of England, [[ UK]]", "State of Alabama, [[ US]]" 또는 "State of Victoria, [[]]" 나는 그들에게 이 수정 사항을 긴급히 되돌리라고 요구했고, 그들은 다음과 같이 주장하며 거절했다."만약
그 기사가 적절한 범주에 속한다면
, 그 나라를 infobox에 두는 것은 그리 중요하지 않아 보인다."
이는 포함시켜야 한다는 합의가 분명히 있음에도 불구하고 말이다. country=물품으로
다른 사람이 걸레를 사용하여 관련 편집 내용을 대량으로 리버스(또는 롤백)할 수 있으므로 해당 기사에 표시된 텍스트를 수정하십시오.만약 편집이 반복되지 않는다면, 나는 Rathfelder에 대한 어떠한 조치도 추구하지 않는다. 그리고 그들이 암시하는 500개의 추가 사항은 사전 합의 없이 일어나지 않는다.(템플릿에는 1,600개 이상의 전이가 있으며 대부분 영향을 받는 것 같음)Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); 앤디와 대화; 앤디의 편집 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC) 17:33[
- 공평하게 말하자면 그 템플릿은 말도 안 된다.자동화된 분류와 자동화된 텍스트 어셈블리의 양은 템플릿의 악몽이 되고 있다.그 쓰레기의 대부분은 제거되어야 한다.대량 롤백보다 더 좋은 해결책은 불필요한 텍스트 구축과 문제 해결을 위한 잘못된 분류가 추가되지 않도록 템플릿을 수정하는 것이다.캔터베리 테일톡 18:01, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 일단 템플릿이 수정되면 - 나는 모든 자동 범주화를 제거하는 것이 이상적이라고 생각한다 - 나는 내가 편집한 내용을 되돌릴 수 있다면 매우 기쁠 것이다.그러나 현재 상태로는 법 집행 기사의 적절한 분류를 불가능하게 만든다.래스펠더 (대화) 2018년 3월 26일 18:11 (UTC)[
- 나도 동의해, 내 이전에 그 정보원들과 함께 위험한 일을 해왔고, 왜 몇몇 기사들이 부정확하게 분류되었는지 알아내는 데 몇 시간이 걸렸어.캔터베리 테일톡 18:19, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 디프스? 앤디 딩글리(토크) 18:48, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 할 수 없었다.나는 왜 일부 기사가 카테고리에 잘못 분류되는지를 알아내려고 오랜 시간을 보냈다.비정부 법 집행 기관.결국 나는 템플릿의 포함된 템플릿에서 문제를 발견한 Necrothesp에게 손을 내밀었다.Infobox 법 집행 기관/자동 단속 기관그것은 종종 옳고 그름대로 틀리고 근거 없는 가정을 하는 터무니없이 복잡한 포함과 자동 조작의 엉망진창이다.내 경우는 '법적 성격'을 위해 아무것도 입력하지 않은 것이 분명해 보이는데, 그것은 그것을 비정부 법 집행 기관 범주에 추가했다.캔터베리 테일 토크 21:00, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 디프스? 앤디 딩글리(토크) 18:48, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 이 템플릿이 "어리석은 짓"이라고 가정해보자.하지만 거기에도 있고, 1500개의 기사에 걸쳐 사용되고 있다.그럼 도대체 누가 이런 변화를 일으켜서 그 용도를 어기고는 스스로 롤백하기를 거부하는 것일까?만약 _you_가 그것을 깨뜨린다면, _you_는 그것을 고쳐야 할 책임이 있다.만약 그것이 당신의 변화를 대량으로 되돌리는 것을 수반한다면, 그렇게 해야 한다.왜 이 대량 변경은 몇 번 편집한 후에(적어도) 중단되지 않았을까, 그것이 일을 깨뜨리고 있는 것이 분명해졌을 때?앤디 딩리 (대화)18:50, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나도 동의해, 내 이전에 그 정보원들과 함께 위험한 일을 해왔고, 왜 몇몇 기사들이 부정확하게 분류되었는지 알아내는 데 몇 시간이 걸렸어.캔터베리 테일톡 18:19, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
나는 캔터베리 테일과 다른 사람들과 동의한다.이건 엄청나게 고안된 것이고, 당신이 절대적으로 바보같은 사람이 아니라면 고치기 매우 어렵다.모든 자동 분류는 제거되어야 하며, 이는 출발 정지 기사가 일반 고양이뿐만 아니라 더 구체적인 고양이에게 추가될 수 있다(예: 어떤 기사도 최상위 범주에 직접 포함해서는 안 된다).법 집행 기관들, 그러나 이 템플릿은 현재 거의 500개의 기사를 거기에 꽂았다.일반적으로 자동 분류는 끔찍한 생각이다.우리는 우리를 위해 그것을 하는 infobox가 필요 없이 우리 스스로 기사를 분류할 수 있고, 잘못된 범주나 여러 불필요한 범주에 기사를 넣을 수 있다.편집자들이 그들만의 분류 작업을 하게 하고 템플릿에 대한 이러한 집착을 멈추도록 하자.그들은 자주 제대로 작동하지 않고 카테고리를 편집하지 못하는 것은 믿을 수 없을 정도로 실망스럽다. -- 네크로테스프 (대화) 21:05, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 그것도 괜찮고 좋지만, 논쟁의 여지가 있는 편집은 페이지에 눈에 띄게 표시되는 내용에 영향을 미치게 되는데, 이것은 편집이 불가능한 카테고리보다 더 심각한 우려 사항이다.Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); 앤디와 대화 : 앤디의 편집 22:12, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
인포박스에 문제가 있나?또 다른 RFC를 시작하기 전에 도망간다. --타라지 (토크) 22:29, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[하라
- 기획사가 있는 나라가 인포박스에 전시되지 않은 것이 왜 큰 문제인지 모르겠다.나는 그 기사가 지리학과 관련된 범주에 나오지 않는 것이 큰 문제라고 생각한다.사람들이 그 기사에 접근할 때쯤이면 그들은 그것이 어느 나라에 있는지 이미 알고 있다.인포박스가 수정할 수 없는 범주를 만든다는 것은 큰 문제다.우리가 먼저 그것을 고칠 수 있을까?래스펠더 (대화) 08:54, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- "왜 그런지 모르겠어." - 무지는 변명이 아니다.
- 대체로 "소프트웨어"인 것에 의존하는 WP가 항상 경험이 많은 코더들을 거의 참여시키지 않고, 반경쟁적인 소프트웨어 주변에서 일하는 모든 사람들에게 일상적인 기본적인 작업 관행이라는 지식을 표현했다는 사실에 나는 계속해서 놀란다.
- 만약 당신이 그것을 깨뜨린다면, 당신은 그것을 야기시킨 변화를 롤백하고, 그리고 다음에 무엇을 해야 할지 궁금해진다.너는 이것에 대해 논쟁하지 않는다.자신의 난장판을 롤백하지 않는 사람들은 더 많은 변화를 만들 수 있는 특권을 잃는다.
- 넌 그걸 다 이해 못 해.아무도 하지 않는다.그래서 당신은 "그것은 나에게 효과가 있다"나 "난 문제를 보지 않는다"와 같은 말을 하지 않는다.
- 앤디 딩리(토크) 11시 7분 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 위키피디아를 교란시켜 주장을 펴는 교과서적인 사례처럼 보인다.래스펠더의 편집은 되돌릴 필요가 있고, 가급적이면 그가 직접 해야 한다.그리고 나서 그는 그것의 대화 페이지에서 Infobox를 어떻게 고칠 것인지에 대해 토론할 수 있다.; 이곳은 그런 논의를 위한 장소가 아니다.웨거스TALK 11:46, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 거짓말 같은 진술이다.나는 조직들에 대한 기사를 분류하려고 노력하고 있다.이 상자는 그것을 막는다.나는 그것을 보존하는 것이 왜 우선되어야 하는지 모르겠다.나는 인포박스를 어떻게 고쳐야 할지 전혀 알지 못하며, 이 상자가 무엇을 했는지도 전혀 알 수 없었다.그것이 해야 할 일을 하지 않기 때문에 나는 왜 내가 나의 피해 제한을 되돌려야 하는지 알지 못한다 - 비록 문제가 해결되었을 때 그것이 여전히 필요하다면 나는 기꺼이 그렇게 할 것이다.래스펠더(대화) 15:02, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 너의 의견이다.나는 손상이 순전히 외적인 것이라고 생각한다.고장 난 인포박스에 대한 책임은 누구에게 있는가? 그리고 장기간에 걸쳐 행해졌던 피해를 방치한 것에 대한 책임은 누구에게 있는가?래스펠더 (대화) 2018년 3월 27일 16:29 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아는 독자들을 위해 존재한다.'순수한' 문제는 독자들에게 영향을 미치고 고칠 수 있을 때까지 되돌릴 필요가 있다.만약 당신이 훌륭한 것이고 궁극적으로는 개선될 것이라고 생각하는 것들을 분류하고 싶다면, 당신은 그 변화들이 기사들의 가독성에 영향을 미치지 않도록 과정을 파악하고 준비 작업을 해야 한다.Jbh Talk 21:05, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 분류는 또한 독자들에게 영향을 미친다. 비록 그것이 덜 명백하더라도, 그것은 애초에 사람들이 기사를 찾는 것을 멈추게 하기 때문이다.유감스럽게도 이 인포박스는 그 일에 대해 아무런 실마리도 주지 않고 나는 그것이 어디서 왔는지, 누구의 것인지, 어떻게 고쳐질 수 있는지 전혀 알지 못한다.그것이 제공하는 설명은 오해의 소지가 있고 분류 원칙에 따르지 않는다.지난 4년 동안 그것에 대한 불만이 반복되어 왔지만 그것들은 처리되지 않은 것으로 보인다.당신이 말하는 것과 당신의 행동에 의해 또는 그것들의 부족에 의해 암시되는 것처럼 보이는 것처럼 분류가 무시될 수 있는 사소한 문제라는 것은 분명 정책이 아니다.래스펠더 (대화) 21:54, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 자동 분류 인포박스는 유지관리의 큰 골칫거리다.이건 멈춰야 해망고 (대화) 22:10, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그런 다음 기사의 최종 사용자 가독성에 영향을 주지 않고 해당 기능을 변경/제거하십시오.분류는 훌륭하지만, 위키피디아의 일반적인 사용자에게는 페이지의 엉터리 텍스트보다 훨씬 덜 명백하다.나는 그 기사를 망치지 않는 것이 어떤 유지 보수 작업에서 최우선 사항이라고 생각한다.일을 제대로 할 수 있는 방법은 항상 있고, 더 많은 계획과 노력이 필요할 수도 있지만, 방법이 있다.이 경우 나는 관계자와 협력하여 템플릿을 다시 작성한 후 무중단 롤아웃을 계획할 것을 제안한다.Q High Availability 플랫폼의 다른 유지보수 작업과 유사함.Jbh Talk 22:27, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 자동 분류 인포박스는 유지관리의 큰 골칫거리다.이건 멈춰야 해망고 (대화) 22:10, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 나는 관련 당사자들이 누구인지 알 수 없을 것 같다. 하지만 몇 년 동안 이 infobox에 대한 반복된 불평을 볼 때 그들은 별로 신경 쓰지 않는 것 같다.래스펠더 (대화) 21:54, 2018년 3월 28일 (UTC)[
위의 모든 뜨거운 공기에도 불구하고, 이 요청이 제정되지 않은 데는 그럴 만한 이유가 없어 보인다.Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); 앤디와 대화; 앤디의 편집 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
- 우와, 내가 여기서 보고 있는 냉철함은 놀랍다.@Rathfelder:나는 솔직히 당신의 종신 재직권의 편집자가 무심코 고리를 깨고 다닌다는 것을 믿을 수 없다. 그리고 실제로 당신은 피해가 "순수하게 외관상"이라고 말한다면 피해를 입히는 것에 아무런 문제가 없다고 주장한다.이상하네.다른 문제를 만들지 않고서는 한 문제를 고칠 수 없다면, 눈에 보이는 외관 손상을 일으키는 어설픈 '고정'을 스스로 시행하는 것이 아니라 도움을 요청하는 것이어야 한다.어떤 이유로든 관계를 끊으면 안 된다.그것을 정당화할 변명은 없지만, 특히 분류는 특히 그렇다.내 말은, 진짜야?분류 작업을 위해 물품에 외관상 손상을 입힐 용의가 있다고?이것은 우선순위가 낮은 물건이며, 아니, 대다수의 독자들은 불완전한 분류에 관심을 가지거나 영향을 받지 않는다.일상적인 편집자들이 어떻게 고쳐야 할지 모르는 끊어진 연결고리를 구현하는 것은 지장을 초래한다.그것은 매우 무능하다는 것을 알게 되고, 템플릿 공간에서 그들이 무엇을 하고 있는지 아는 편집자들의 기술을 고려하면, 그것은 완전히 불필요해 보인다.당신은 "왜 그것을 보존하는 것이 우선되어야 하는지" 알지는 못하겠지만, 나는 그 이유를 말할 수 있다. 왜냐하면 그것은 말 그대로 정책의 문제이기 때문이다.@Pigsonthewing:MassRollback이 실제로 관리자 기능인지는 잘 모르겠지만-내 생각에 그것은 사실 모든 롤백자가 사용할 수 있는 스크립트인 것 같아.그러나 그것은 Rathfelder의 기고문에서 가능한 모든 편집을 간단히 롤백할 것이다.수동으로 수리해야 할 것 같아.나는 또한 Rathfelder가 손상을 복구하는 것을 돕기 위해 그들이 할 수 있는 모든 것을 해야 한다고 생각한다.어떻게 해야 하는지는 상관없어, 끊어진 고리가 별일 아닌 것처럼 서 있을 수 있다는 생각은 용납할 수 없어.swarm 20:09, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
- 몇 년 동안 분명히 깨져 반복적인 불평의 대상이 되어 왔던 인포박스를 누군가가 수선해 준 책임을 지고 돌아간다면 나는 그 피해를 수리할 수 있어 상당히 기쁘다.래스펠더 (대화)20:33, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
템플릿 편집기 필요
핑잉(WP 회원:WPINFOBOX) @SMCCandlish, Thumperward, Northama1000, Rehman, Montanabw: {{Infobox 법집행기관에서 자동분류 기능을 제거하는 방법을 알아낼 수 있는 사람?swarm 01:27, 2018년 3월 30일 (UTC)[
- 모두 안녕 작업중이야레만 02:22, 2018년 3월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 템플릿이 엉망이라는 것에 전적으로 동의한다.2008년에 쓰여진 (이해할 수 있는) 내용이지만, (!!!) 이후 편집된 것은 127개에 불과하다.일단 오토매트 기능만 제거하는 작업을 해보겠지만, 전체 템플릿을 다시 하는 것이 좋을 것 같다(코드를 작성하면 좋겠다).{{Infobox 댐}}, {{Infobox 발전소}, {{Infobox River}}}}에 대한 코드의 대부분을 작성했다.만약 우리가 그것과 같은 것으로 단순화하는데 동의한다면, 나는 기꺼이 도울 것이다.
- 우선, 인포박스 전류 사용에 익숙한 사람이 필요한 모든 매개 변수(불필요한 매개 변수 제거, 새로운 매개 변수 추가, 기존 이름 변경 등)를 나열할 수 있다면 바로 이용할 수 있다.레만 02:33, 2018년 3월 30일 (UTC)[
- 고마워, 레흐만, 넌 성자야.@Pigsonthewing: 이것에 대해 어떤 피드백을 제공할 만큼 친숙한가?만약 그렇지 않다면 우리는 관련 위키피디아 주제를 참조할 수 있을 것이다.swarm 03:31, 2018년 3월 30일 (UTC)[
- 정말 고마워.나는 만약 인포박스가 자동 분류를 하지 않는다면 분류 작업을 하는 우리들 대부분이 더 행복할 것이라고 생각한다.아니면 처음 신청했을 때 카테고리를 채울 수 있지만, 편집될 수 있는 상태로 둘 수 있다면?범주는 시간이 지남에 따라 발전한다.래스펠더 (대화) 09:22, 2018년 3월 30일 (UTC)[
- 천만에요.간단한 질문, 자동 범주화가 제거되면 누락된 범주를 수동으로 추가할 계획이 있는가?그러면 많은 기사들은 대부분/모든 카테고리가 없을 것이기 때문에...레흐만 09:48, 2018년 3월 30일 (UTC)[
여러분.{{Infobox 법 집행 기관/샌드박스}}에서 완전한 코드 재작성 작업을 진행해왔다는 것만 업데이트하고 싶다.이 infobox의 복잡한 템플릿-템플릿-내-템플릿 특성 때문에 자동 범주만 제거하는 것은 코드 리라이트를 하는 것만큼 지루하다.그리고 코드를 단순화하는 것이 매우 중요하므로 미래의 편집자들이 큰 번거로움 없이 템플릿을 편집할 수 있을 뿐만 아니라, 미래에 위키다타를 지원할 수 있을 것이다.
누구든 도움을 주고 싶은 사람이 있다면 언제든지 샌드박스에 나와 함께 하시오.나의 현재 업무는 하위 페이지를 사용하지 않고 모든 코드를 하나의 템플릿 페이지로 단순화하는 것이다.(동일하게 테스트하려면, 다음에서 전환{{Infobox law enforcement agency로{{Infobox law enforcement agency/sandbox사소한 설계 차이를 제외하고 어떤 물품에서도 결함을 유발해서는 안 된다.매개변수 추가/수정/제거와 같은 추가 변경은 이후에 수행할 수 있다.건배, 레흐만 14:33, 2018년 3월 31일 (UTC)[
안녕하십니까, 레흐만 14:33, 2018년 3월 31일 (UTC)[
사브리나 슐로스의 반복적인 BLP 위반
조언 부탁해.나는 사브리나 슐로스에서 두 번이나 생년월일을 없앴고, 마크로에 의해 두 번이나 생년월일을 회복했다.재발 방지를 위해 페이지 보호를 요청할까 생각했지만, 완전한 보호가 과도해 보이고 다른 것은 안 될 것 같다.나 또한 사용자와의 편집 전쟁을 할 준비가 되어 있지 않다.
배경:나는 그 페이지를 삭제하기 위해 지명했고, 그 외에 여러 가지 부적절한 내용들도 삭제했다.나는 그 이후로 저작권 침해, 공공 기물 파손, 그리고 (크리스 송어맨과) 왕따로 고발당했다.나는 마크로에게 두 가지 경고를 남겼어.비소싱된 생년월일도 사용자:막로/샌드박스2; 위키다타에서 삭제했는데, 그곳에서 영어 위키백과로 소싱되었다(그 자체가 문제다).justlettersandnumber (대화) 11:10, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 사용자가 지명한 글은 저작권 침해였다.그것은 명백한 복사용 페이스트였다.내가 그것을 보고한 이후로 나는 위에서 언급한 두 사용자로부터 욕설과 괴롭힘 전술을 받았다.그들은 계속해서 내가 만든 여러 기사를 무차별적으로 지명했다.나는 그들에게 괴롭힘을 당하고 있다고 느꼈고, 보도되었을 때 위키로부터 아무런 도움도 받지 못했다.나는 그들이 무시한 정보를 검증하기 위해 조언을 따르고 새로운 소스를 추가했다.막로(토크) 12:44, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 어디서 왔는지, 그리고 정확히 어떤 걸로 편집하는지, 막로?나는 그 페이지에 대한 편집된 내용을 나만의 이후에 실제로 확인했고, 나는 카피비오는 없다고 확신한다. 그러나 만약 당신이 다른 설득력 있는 증거를 가지고 있다면, 그것을 제시해 달라.사브리나 슐로스에 대해서, 그녀의 생년월일을 지원하기 위해 정확히 어떤 독립적인 믿을만한 자료를 추가하셨습니까?justlettersandnumber (대화) 17:42, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 저스트레터즈앤드넘버전체 페이지는 다른 웹사이트에서 복사한 페이스트였다.당신이 소유자가 아닌 것.사브리나 슐로스 기사에 관해서 나는 믿을 만한 출처를 추가했다고 말했다.BFI에서 하나.막로(토크)18:54, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 어디서 왔는지, 그리고 정확히 어떤 걸로 편집하는지, 막로?나는 그 페이지에 대한 편집된 내용을 나만의 이후에 실제로 확인했고, 나는 카피비오는 없다고 확신한다. 그러나 만약 당신이 다른 설득력 있는 증거를 가지고 있다면, 그것을 제시해 달라.사브리나 슐로스에 대해서, 그녀의 생년월일을 지원하기 위해 정확히 어떤 독립적인 믿을만한 자료를 추가하셨습니까?justlettersandnumber (대화) 17:42, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- Makro는 WP당 블록이 필요하다.CIR. 크리스 트라우트맨 (토크) 20:04, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
그들은 괴롭힘에 대처하기 위해 내 강연을 하러 왔다.또한 WP:AfC에서 프로젝트 참여를 요청한다.약간의 손 잡는 것이 순서일지도 모른다.레거시pac (대화) 01:11, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[
- 손 잡는 게 필요한 건지 잘 모르겠어, 레거시팩사용자는 자신이 WP라는 것을 보여주려는 의지가 꽤 있어 보인다.NOTHERE – 이제 Lucas Gage의 관리자와 편집 전쟁.justlettersandnumber (대화) 2018년 3월 29일 18:53 (UTC)[
- 나는 방금 관리자 존에게 막 막로가 시작한 이 후드를 검토하고 막로가 거기에 쓴 것에 대한 나의 반응[7]을 읽어달라고 부탁했다.윌리엄, 진정 고소부가 지붕에 있는 거야?2018년 4월 1일(UTC) 16:43[
사용자:11월3일17일
Carles Puigdemont 기사의 토크 페이지를 보십시오.여기서, 사용자:11월3일 17일 위키백과 대화 페이지를 오용하여 기사와 아무런 관계 없이 개인적인 의견을 표현한다.그는 개인 블로그로 위키피디아 토크 페이지를 사용한다.그가 이런 일을 하는 것이 처음인 것 같으니, 내가 왜 이 사용자와 직접 대화하지 않고 게시판에 글을 쓰는지 궁금할 것이다.그러나, 이 사용자는 독일어 위키피디아에서 정확히 이런 행동을 하는 것으로 알려져 있으며, 그는 이것을 중단하라는 말을 여러 번 들었다.그는 듣지 않았다.그는 심지어 여러 번 금지 당하기도 했다.그것은 현재 그가 듣지 않기 때문에 2주 동안 지속되는 세 번째 금지령이다.그의 관점에서 독일어 위키백과의 행정가들은 "권위주의"의 일부분이며 그는 어떤 규칙에도 얽매이지 않는다.독일어 위키피디아의 관리자들은 그를 괴롭히고 있다고 제안했고 그가 무기한 금지되기 전에 이것을 "매우 마지막 기회"라고 불렀다.독일어 위키피디아에 있는 그의 블록 로그를 봐줘.예: "POV-Pushing und Diskussionsseitenmissbrauch"는 "개인 의견을 밀어내고 대화 페이지를 남용함"을 의미하며, "Widerholte Verstöße gegen die Richtlinien für Diskussionsseiten"은 "대화 페이지에 대한 반복된 규칙 위반"을 의미한다.여기 영어 위키백과에서 그는 실제로 1RR을 위반했다는 이유로 금지되었고, 다시 한번 그는 그 결정을 받아들이지 않고 존경 받는 행정가의 결정의 정당성에 도전하고 있다.여기 영어 위키백과에서도, 몇몇 잘 알려진 작가들은 그의 베바하이오에 대해 "그는 단지 그것의 즐거움을 위해 나와 싸우고 있었을 뿐"이라고 기술했다.이것은 그것을 간결하게 표현한다.
이 사용자가 조치를 취하지 않으면 이런 게시물을 계속 올릴 수 있으니 한번 봐달라는 것이다.IP (대화) 22:24, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 안녕, 더랜덤IP. 이 페이지 상단의 빨간색 경고 텍스트와 편집 창 상단의 노란색 상자는 당신이 여기에서 보고하는 것을 누구에게나 알려야 한다는 것을 알려준다.네가 그렇게 하지 않았기 때문에, 나는 너를 위해 그것을 했다.컬렌328 22:36, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC) 토론하자[하라
사용자:HRIA123
| 막혔어.swarm 01:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
몇 주 동안 이 사용자를 열 번 메시징했었습니다. 응답 없음, 사용자 대화:HHRIA123#소스 및 통신.그들은 참조되지 않은 기사를 반복해서 만들어 왔으며 그 문제를 다루거나 의사소통을 하지 않을 것이다.나는 정책 WP에서 요약한 바와 같이 의사소통은 정책의 문제라는 것을 지적해 왔다.수행 및 WP:논쟁, 그리고 에세이에 자세히 설명되어 있는 WP: 의사소통이 필요하다.나는 또한 WP:V의 중요성을 강조했지만, 아무런 반응도 없이 나는 다른 선택사항들을 다 써버렸다.볼린 (대화)20:31, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아는 공동작업이다.자재가 공급되지 않은 경우에는 당연히 제거될 수도 있고, AfD로 가져갈 수도 있다.그러나 이 자료가 백과사전적이고 정확한 자료라면 백과사전을 가장 잘 제작할 수 있을 것이다.
- 만약 그들이 추가한 자료가 모두 쓰레기라면, 그 계좌는 즉시 공공 기물 파손 계좌로 외설될 수 있다.그럴 것 같지 않고, 우리는 선의로 생각한다.
- 나는 1997-98 크로아티아 First A League를 살펴보았는데, 당신이 가장 최근에 사용자들의 토크 페이지에 언급되지 않은 것으로 인용한 기사였다.(거기서 작은 카피편집까지 했다.)다른 기사들은 보지 않았지만 아마 10개의 기사들 모두:크로아티아 퍼스트 A리그 시즌이 합병되어야 한다.그것은 그것이 정확하고 그 원천이 존재한다고 가정하는 것이다(그러나 그들은 온라인이나 영어로 될 필요는 없다).
- 그러나 AN/I의 요점은 단순히 관리자의 개입이 최선의 다음 단계인가?이 단계에는 더 나은 대안이 있다고 생각한다.아마도 우선 기고자에게 정보를 어디서 얻고 있는지 물어보고, 적절한 참고 자료를 작성하는 데 도움을 주겠다고 제안하십시오.참고문헌을 쓰는 것은 부담스러울 수 있고, 신입 사원들은 종종 지역 신문이 온라인 상태가 아니라는 이유만으로 신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 아니라고 생각하거나, 혹은 가까운 지역 밖에서 구할 수 없다고 생각한다.이 점에 대해 그들을 안심시켜라. 그러면 결과가 훨씬 나을지도 모른다.안드레와 (대화) 04:04, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 안드레와, 나는 기고자에게 그들의 정보를 어디서 얻었는지 물어봤지만, 내 메시지에 아무런 응답도 없었다.만약 누군가가 의사소통을 하지 않는다면, 내가 이 일에 그들을 돕는 것은 불가능하다.몇 주 동안 10건의 메시지가 이 문제를 다른 방법으로 해결하기에 충분한 시도로 보인다.볼린 (대화) 07:59, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 넌 인내심을 가지고 있어.내가 너의 가장 좋은 제안을 좀 도와줄 수 있을까?
- 자원 봉사 단체로서, 우리는 사람들이 하기 싫은 일을 하도록 강요할 기회가 거의 없다.나는 이 기고가 이 지역에 백과사전을 짓고 싶어한다고 가정하고, 누군가 그렇게 한다면 유용한 내용이 될 수 있는 자료를 추가하고 있으며, 나는 이것을 이루기 위한 방법을 찾고 있다.
- 자재를 소싱할 가능성이 없다면 삭제해야 한다.아마도 우리는 이미 거기에 있는 것 같다.나는 그것을 확신하지 못하지만, 그것은 어떤 경우에도 ANI의 문제가 아니다.
- 만약 그 물질이 교란적으로 재생된다면, 그래, 불행히도 그것은 ANI 문제가 된다.안드레와 (토크)
- 안드레와, 나는 기고자에게 그들의 정보를 어디서 얻었는지 물어봤지만, 내 메시지에 아무런 응답도 없었다.만약 누군가가 의사소통을 하지 않는다면, 내가 이 일에 그들을 돕는 것은 불가능하다.몇 주 동안 10건의 메시지가 이 문제를 다른 방법으로 해결하기에 충분한 시도로 보인다.볼린 (대화) 07:59, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
사용자:Jvfmgnllj
| 막혔어.swarm 01:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 Jvfmgnllj에게 4개월 동안 10개의 메시지를 보냈다.내가 받은 답장은 내 토크 페이지에 있는 한 가지 메시지로, '출처를 찾을 수 없고, 어떻게 편집해야 할지 모르겠다.네가 직접 고치거나 찾아줄 수 있겠니'라고 말했다.하지만 그들은 이 기간 동안 계속해서 규칙적으로 편집해왔다.나는 반복적으로 그들을 WP로 향하게 했다:소통이 필요하다, WP:V와 WP:짐. 나는 그들에게 참조되지 않은 기사를 만드는 것에 대해 연락을 해 왔다.볼린 (대화)20:55, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 내가 생각하는 위와 같은 조언.
- 사실 더욱 그렇다.그들은 도움을 요청했다.위키피디아의 가장 좋은 결과는 그들이 여기 없는 한 그들을 위해 그것을 찾는 것이고, 우리는 아직 그것에 대한 사례가 없다는 것이다.조금만 버텨!안드레와 (대화) 03:54, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 안드레와, 나는 그들에게 도움을 주겠다고 했지만, 그들은 내 토크 페이지에 글을 올리는 방법을 알고 있고 계속해서 편집을 하고 있지만, 이후의 메시지에는 응답하지 않았다.나는 4개월 동안 이 일에 대해 그들을 도우려고 노력했지만 아무 것도 얻지 못했다.볼린 (대화) 08:01, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 다시, 위를 보라.나는 이 차이점을 정확한 노선을 따라 돕자는 제안으로 본다. 그것은 내가 위에서 말한 것과 같은 차이점이다.이 사용자는 약간의 훌륭한 기여와 이전 블록을 가진 체크무늬의 이력을 가지고 있다.그들은 다른 어떤 언어 위키백과에서도 활동적인 것 같지 않다.
- 그러나 이것은 당신이 위에서 인용한 그들의 대답에 근거하여, 어느 두 가지 중에서 더 나은 것 같다(고맙다, 디프가 훨씬 더 좋았을 것이다).그들은 우리가 정보원에 의해 무엇을 의미하는지 이해하지 못하는 것 같다.네가 말했듯이, 그들은 이 자료를 어디선가 가져오고 있어.그게 아마 우리가 필요한 전부일 거야.그리고 만약 우리가 이 문제를 해결할 수 있다면, 그것은 우리가 #사용자:위에도 HHRIA123이 있다.
- 소스 정책과 지침에는 이러한 사용자들이 알 것으로 기대할 수 없는 몇 가지 미묘한 점이 있다.스포츠 결과는 지역 신문에서 확인할 수 있을 것이다.ref는 매우 바람직하지만 재료에 문제가 있거나 문제가 발생할 가능성이 있는 경우에만 필수적이다(WP:당신이 인용하는 것과 어떤 것이 정책이다.)나는 스포츠 결과가 도전받을 것 같다고 생각하지 않을 것이고 기여자가 그렇게 생각했는지 매우 의심스럽다.하지만 당신은 그것에 도전했다.그리고 당신이 당신의 이유를 제공하는데 부담은 없지만, 나는 당신이 그렇게 하는 것이 건설적이라고 생각하겠고, 단지 공손할 뿐이다.
- 그래서 나는 단순히 물질을 제거함으로써 이것을 고조시키지 않도록 주의할 것이다.당신은 그렇게 할 권리가 있다.하지만 그것이 정말 앞으로의 최선책일까?아마도 우리는 ANI에서 벗어나 이 논의를 계속해야 할 것이고, 나는 그렇게 해서 기쁘다.안드레와(토크) 16:25, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 안드레와, 나는 그들에게 도움을 주겠다고 했지만, 그들은 내 토크 페이지에 글을 올리는 방법을 알고 있고 계속해서 편집을 하고 있지만, 이후의 메시지에는 응답하지 않았다.나는 4개월 동안 이 일에 대해 그들을 도우려고 노력했지만 아무 것도 얻지 못했다.볼린 (대화) 08:01, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
이것은 해당 사용자에 의한 건설적인 편집의 한 예에 불과하다.안드레와 (대화)20:03, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
사용자의 법적 위협:지뉴비1956
| 사용자 차단됨.—usernamekiran(talk) 02:51, 2018년 4월 5일(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자 Jnewby1956은 법적 위협을 가했다[8].레드도그식스 (대화) 22:42, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
SPA의 저작권 위반
| 사용자는 요청대로 명확한 경고를 받았다. |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사라061(토크 · 기고)은 2주 전 자신의 토크 페이지에 게재된 저작권 위반 고지를 이해하지 못하는 것 같고, 그 대신 편집자는 최근 편집에서 저작권 위반을 그것의 근원으로 언급하기로 선택했다.분명히 WP:SPA. 이번 사건이 WP의 경우:여기 아님 우리가 위키피디아의 저작권 정책을 더 명확하게 설명할 누군가가 필요한 경우.관리자로부터의 입력은 유익할 것이다.월터 괴를리츠 (대화) 19:27, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 사이트 정책 내에서 내가 관리할 수 있는 만큼 짧고 무뚝뚝한 설명을 해 왔다.카피비오가 더 있다면 블록은 확실히 정돈되어 있을 거야나는 아직 "WP:아직 "여기는 아니다".이안.thomson (대화) 19:34, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
호스트봇
| Bot은 일시적으로 더 이상 메시지를 게시하지 않는다.봇 운영자 Jtmorgan(토크 · 기여)은 이 문제를 인지하고, HostBot이 만든 오류를 수정하는 것뿐만 아니라, 이를 해결하려고 시도하고 있다(예시 참조). --Hammersoft(토크) 19:22, 2018년 4월 4일(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
여기에 그런 글을 올리기에 적합한지 모르겠지만, HostBot이 다시 시작되어 부서진 찻집 초대 템플릿을 배달하고 있다.누가 뭐라도 할 수 있을까?L293D(☎) 19:05, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
사용자를 삭제하십시오.E-아르텍스테(스팸)
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
필터 편집은 IP가 태그를 지정할 수 없음을 의미한다.명예를 걸고 싶은 사람? -- 밥 더IP 편집 2.28.13.202 (대화) 18:47, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 고마워 @Beeblebrox:! -- 밥더IP 편집 2.28.13.202 (대화) 19:13, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
기사 대화 페이지를 사용하여 다른 사람과 연락하고 다른 기사를 토론하는 새로운 편집자
| 아프로디지펑크3(토크 · 기여)는 무기한 차단되었다.더 이상 조치를 취할 필요가 없다.--Hammersoft (대화) 19:18, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
대화 중:이슬람의 나라#거짓말을 행동으로 옮기기 전에는 내 의견을 지우지 마라.및 대화:Nation of Islam#Nation Of Islamic Afrodizifunk3(토크 · 기여)의 REAL 회원들이 토크 페이지를 잘못 사용하고 있다.편집한 내용을 두 번이나 삭제하고 자신의 토크페이지에서 설명하려고 했지만 그는 분명히 내 말을 이해하지 못한다. 18:36, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 문제를 보여주는 그의 토크 페이지에서 이 답장을 보게 되었다: "왜 이슬람국가(Nation of Islamic)에 관한 블랙아메리카 페이지를 편집하는 거야?흑미인가."더그 웰러톡 18:39, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 중요한 WP를 획득한 다른 사용자:NOTHERE VIBE?RickinBaltimore (대화) 18:42, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
이 페이지를 어떻게 사용하는지는 잘 모르겠지만, 웰러씨
나는 그들에게 그들의 음악 문화에 관해 위키피디아에서 일어나는 일을 정확하게 알려주고 있다.신랄한 재즈 페이지는 거짓말이다. 그것은 완전히 잘못된 것이다.내가 너에게 그것에 대해 어떻게 했냐고 물었을 때 너는 내 질문에 대답하기를 거절했고 네가 의제를 가지고 있다는 것을 증명하는 내 코멘트를 지웠다.만약 당신이 진짜 편집자라면 당신은 그것을 조사하고 싶을 것이다.넌 아냐.어떤 조치도 취하지 않고서는 당신이 의심받고 있다는 것을 증명했다.에이드 재즈 페이지에 나와 있는 것 처럼요.— Afrodizifunk3 (대화 • 기여) 18:53, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[에 의해 추가된 이전의 부호 없는 논평
- @Afrodizifunk3:더그 웰러(관리 문제에 조금이라도 관심을 기울이는 모든 사람 대신)에게 메시지를 남기고 싶다면 그의 사용자 토크 페이지에서 다음과 같이 하십시오.사용자 대화:더그 웰러.또한, 우리는 인종별 기사 편집을 제한하지 않는다.이안.thomson (대화) 19:04, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
그리고 또한 내가 NOI 페이지를 방문한 주요 이유 중 하나는 지금까지 내가 본 어떤 편집자도 믿을 수 없을 것 같기 때문이다.이 사람도 그들 중 한 명이다.예를 들어, 산성 재즈 토크 페이지에 있는 가짜 편집자들을 조사해 보는 것은 어떨까?그는 이것이 백과사전이라고 나에게 알려준다.그런 다음 재즈에 대해 아무것도 모른다고 하는 거짓말 한 페이지에 대해 알리면 아무것도 하지 않는다.위키피디아에서 행정가는 이런 식이다.그리고 우리가 이 웹사이트에 기부하기를 바라십니까?나는 이슬람국가(Nation of Islam)에 갈 것이다.만약 네가 좋다면, 나는 모든 랩퍼들을 포함한 아프리카계 미국인들이 위키백과를 보이콧하도록 캠페인을 시작할 것이다.— Afrodizifunk3 (대화 • 기여) 19:07, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[에 의해 추가된 선행 미서명 논평
사용자:몰디원 반달리즘
| 콘텐츠 분쟁 | |
| WP:NOTVAND. Ian.thomson (대화) 18:21, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]을 참조하십시오 | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자:몰디원은 반달리즘 전용 계정인 것 같다.이 사용자가 편집한 유일한 (6)은 아르마라이트 소총 목록이었는데, 그는 아르마라이트 AR-15가 반자동 소총이라고 계속 주장하고 있다.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/MoldyOne.다른 말을 반복했음에도 불구하고.분명히 그는 "아르마라이트 소총 목록"이라는 제목의 기사가 어쩐지 콜트 AR-15를 지칭하는 것이라고 믿고 있다.--RAF910 (대화) 16:56, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
즉, 세미 오토매틱 라이플이기 때문에 선택 스위치도 없고 트리거 당 1회전만 발사하며, 그렇지 않으면 다중 화재 모드를 가진 돌격 라이플과 연방법에 의해 소유되는 불법 소총으로 만들 수 있다 — MoldyOne이 추가한 서명되지 않은 논평 (대화 • 기여) 18:10, 2018년 4월(UTC)[
나는 또한 모든 AR-15 소총이 동일하다고 말하는 것은 반달리즘이 아니며, 제조자가 어떤 것을 만드는지는 중요하지 않으며, 모두 동일하며, 또한 그것이 동일한 소총이고 그들이 언급하고 있는 소총이 M-16이라는 것을 보여주기 위해 링크를 추가했다. 이것은 차이점이 있다는 메모를 넣으면 쉽게 고칠 수 있다.AR-15와 돌격 소총인 M-16 사이에 nce. — MoldyOne이 추가한 서명되지 않은 코멘트(대화 • 기여) 18:18, 2018년 4월 4일(UTC)[
39.42.159.51은 WP를 따르지 않는다.NPOV
| IP가 48시간 동안 차단됨.Fish+Karate 12:02, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
중립적인 관점을 따르지 않았기 때문에 나는 이 IP에서 몇 가지 수정 사항을 되돌렸다.이 IP는 끊임없이 기사에 그들 자신의 분석을 추가하고 있으며, 나는 이 혼란에 대한 블록이 여기서 보증되어야 한다고 생각한다.pkbwcgs (대화) 10:29, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
난 나치라고 불리고 있어 (소급 코드가 아닌)
| 나치와 행운은 모두에게 없다.이 실타래를 계속하면 얻을 것이 아무것도 없기 때문에 닫는다.(nac) 레거시pac (대화) 09:37, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
스페이스카우보이420(토크 · 기여)은 숫자 "88"을 포함한 내 사용자 이름에 근거하여 내가 나치임을 반복적으로 암시해 왔다. (내 생년월일을 지칭하는 말로, 내가 그것을 채택한 후까지 내가 알지 못했던 잠재력, 상당히 불명확한 신나치 연합체들을 가리킨다. 하지만 그것은 전에 두 번밖에 올라오지 않았지만, 나는 여전히 내 사용자 페이지에 그것을 설명해야 한다.얼마나 명백하게 염증적인지 때문에.그가 나를 "히자리88"이라고 불렀을 때, 나는 그에게 그러지 말라고 부탁했고, 그는 대신 "88"이라고 부르겠다고 말했다.[9][10]
이것은 30분 후에 우연히 신나치스에 관한 한 페이지를 편집하게 되었기 때문에 분명히 우연이 아니었다.[11] 그는 또한 내가 다른 곳에서 하고 있는 숫자기호주의에 대한 혀 꼬투리 토론을 알고 있다는 뜻도 내비쳤다.[12][13]
어쨌든 나는 그에게 나를 위한 새로운 별명이 나를 파시스트라고 비난하기 위한 것이 아니었던 이유를 설명해 달라고 부탁했고, [14] 그는 나를 철회하고 사과하기 위해 거절했고, 대신 두 배로 줄여 나를 "하치쥬하치"(일본어: "8y-88")라고 세 번 더 불렀다.[16]
다른 사용자들을 나치에 비교하는 것이 얼마나 터무니없는 일인지 누군가 그에게 설명해 줄 수 있는가? 그리고 그가 계속해서 반복된 경고를 무시한다면 아마도 그를 차단할 수 있을까?
히지리 88 (聖や) 07:38, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 첫째로 (그리고 명백하게 말하면) 그의 이름은 히지리88이다.그건 그의 이름의 일부분이야.
- 이전 댓글에서 내가 그를 '히자리'라고 잘못 불렀는데, 그가 불평을 해서 그냥 88이라고 부르자고 제안했다.다시 한 번 말하지만, 만약 그가 그의 이름의 일부로 "88"을 선택했다면, 그는 "88"이라고 불리지 않을 것이라고 짐작했다. 누군가가 나를 "420"이라고 부르는 것처럼, 나는 확실히 불쾌감을 느끼지 않을 것이다.
- 네, 일본어로 88로 번역되는 "하치쥬하치"라고 불렀는데, 제 전체 코멘트는 "하치쥬치쿤 와 산쥬 데쓰카?다카라 나마이 와 하치쥬하치?"라는 뜻의 "88세 아저씨 30살이야?그러므로 너의 이름은 88"이다. 왜냐하면 1988년에 태어난 사람이 30살이기 때문이다.
- 그래서 분명히, 나는 그를 나치라고 부르는 것이 아니다 - 나는 그가 "88"의 사용에 근거하여 그를 나치라고 불렀다고 주장하는 것에 대해 그의 이름이 그의 나이를 가리키는 것인지 묻고 있다.
- 솔직히 말하자면, 나(대부분 제정신인 사람들처럼)는 나치를 싫어하고, 만약 그가 나치라는 인상을 받고 있다면, 나는 그 문제를 베일에 싸여 있고 모호한 용어로 다루지 않을 것이다.
- 이것은 모두 논제이지만 부분적으로 일본어 사용이 서툴러서일 수도 있고, 일본어 문법에 오류가 생겨 오해가 생겼을 수도 있지만, 그것은 훨씬 더 나은 화자나 일본인이 확인해야 할 사항이다.스페이스카우보이420 (대화) 07:56, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 아니, 네가 그 로마자화된 일본말을 쓰기 전에 내가 명시적으로 너에게 설명을 요구했고, 그 위에서 네가 그것을 인정하고 철회하지 않으면 ANI에 보고되어야 한다고까지 명시적으로 말했는데, 어떻게 그것이 나를 탈출시킨 후 네가 한 논평에서 비이슈적인 회전이 될 수 있었을까.
- 당신의 논평이 얼마나 끔찍하게 부적절했는지(분명히 내가 2015년 흑표면 사건으로 가장 잘 알려진 일본 음악 그룹이라는 암시를 함으로써 BLP를 위반할 수 없다는 말을 그만 두게 하려는 의도였음) 인정하거나, 적어도 오해에 대해 사과하고(그것이 그렇다면) 좀더 신중히 하겠다고 약속할 것인가.미래일까, 아닌가?
- 히지리 88 (聖や) 08:09, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 스페이스카우보이420은 위 히지리 88이 올린 디프에서 보듯이 이렇게 터무니없는 편집을 하고 저항하는 사람들을 트롤하는 능력이 뛰어나다.불행히도 불합리한 편집을 하는 것에 대한 정책이 없기 때문에 각 기사에서 싸워야 할 것이다.그러나, 트롤링은 막을 수 있고 스페이스카우보이420은 멈춰야 한다.조누니크 (대화) 08:02, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
내가 다른 토론을 위해 기사를 보고 있기 때문에 이 팝업을 보았고, 히지리가 위에서 나에게 같은 영광을 주었기 때문에 내가 자유롭게 논평하는 것이 낫다고 생각했다.내 개인적인 생각으로는, 토론을 보면, 스페이스코보이가 의도치 않게 히지리의 철자를 잘못 쓴 것으로 보이며, 그의 어조 때문에 이것은 의도적인 사소한 것으로 추론되었다.이것은 두 사용자를 완전히 다른 발판으로 만들었고, 히지리는 과거의 불행한 경험으로 인해 나치의 트랙을 내려갔으며, 반면 스페이스코보이는 히지리가 불리고자 하는 것을 알아내려고 애쓰다가 결국 이상한 구석에 자신을 그렸다.내가 제안을 할 수 있다면, 두 사람은 일이 이상하게 궤도를 벗어났고, 감정이 상했다는 것, 그리고 서로를 더 잘 이해하기 위해 둘 다 더 잘해야 한다는 것에 동의한 다음, 원래 논의하던 문제로 되돌아가야 한다는 것이 될 것이다.IP에 관해서는 나보다 경험이 많은 사용자에게 맡기겠다.그건 그냥 내 2센트야, 행복한 편집! - 아담스톰97 (토크) 08:42, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 위의 두 번째 문장에 대한 작은 점을 바로잡기 위해 나는 '히자리'를 의도적인 경시라고 여기지 않았다.많은 선의의 편집자들이 내 사용자 이름의 철자를 잘못 썼고 나는 보통 웃어넘기면서 반응한다.여기서 문제는 '히자리'가 의도적인 경미함이었는지(그리고 나는 그렇게 생각하지 않는다)가 이미 나와 오데를 만들고 있는 논쟁에서 문맥에서 나를 나치즘과 연관시키기 위해 가져갈 수 있는 나의 사용자 이름에서 완전히 분리된 부분을 골라내 내 이름의 '히지리' 부분을 정확하게 철자해 달라는 나의 요구에 응하고 있다는 것이다.문제의 BLP에서 발생한 매우 심각하고 주목할 만한 블랙페이스 사건을 화이트 워싱/다운하는 것에 대해 매우 불편함을 느끼고 있는 rs는 명백히 나쁜 믿음의 트롤링이라는 것을 의미했다.그리고 이 모든 일이 일어나기 전에 일어난 일도 있다.히지리 88 (聖やや) 09:30, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)
- "그리고 그는 분명히 자신의 POV를 공유하는 유일한 편집자가 아니라는 착각을 일으키기 위해 로그아웃하고 있는 것 같다." 당신과 동의하지 않는 모든 사람들에 대해 바보 같은 주장을 하지는 않는다.WP:ASPERSION은 이 상황에서 관련이 있을 수 있다.아니면 그냥 "양말 계정이 있니?"라고 물어보면 내가 기꺼이 대답할 것이다.
- 하지만 당신이 옳아요.나에 관한 양말 인형 보고서가 있었다.양말 인형이나 양말 IP를 사용하지 않기 때문에 모두 닫힌 양말 인형 보고서.
- 내가 아직도 양말 인형을 사용하고 있다고 생각한다면 SPI를 신청해줘.
- 네 말이 또 맞아.(kinda) 모모이로 클로버 기사를 두고 논쟁이 있다.그 기사는 지금 잠겨 있고 우리는 그 문제를 거기서 논의할 수 있다.
- 가장 중요한 것은, 이 ANI 보고서는 폐쇄된 SPI나 보호 조항이 아닌, 당신의 이름과 나의 사용에 대해 논의하기 위한 것이다.
- 그리고 아니다, 트롤을 시도하는 것은 없다 - 단지 "88"을 포함하는 이름 때문에 누군가를 "88"이라고 부르는 것은 트롤링하지 않는다.스페이스카우보이420 (대화) 08:54, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Spacecowboy420:아무도 양말 계정이 있다고 비난하지 않는다.당신이 인용하는 내 코멘트 부분은 심지어 분명히 문제가 여러 사람이 되는 듯한 착각을 일으키기 위해 로그아웃하는 것이라고 말한다.히지리 88 (聖や) 09:31, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
나는 88(숫자)이 중국어로 행운의 의미를 가진다는 것을 알았고, BC에서 우리는 그것을 매우 좋은 숫자로 여긴다.하지만 중국인들은 나치를 훨씬 능가한다.레거시pac (대화) 09:23, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그녀도 아주 좋은 중국어 번호야; 고기 볶음밥 섞은 것 같아 :) 음.—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 09:29, 2018년 4월 4일(UTC)
174.238.1.106
| 막혔다.♠ 20:34, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/174.238.1.106을 확인하십시오.이 사용자는 분명히 내 토크 페이지에 인종차별에 근거한 발언을 올리고 있다.U1Quattro (대화) 14:07, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
- 아래쪽으로 이동했는데 여기 174.238.1.106 (토크 · 기여) MarnettD Talk 14:10, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[] 편집된 내용을 쉽게 확인할 수 있는 링크가 있다
- 변명의 여지가 없는 인신공격, 쇼트블록 발행.블록이 만료된 후에도 유사한 동작이 계속되면 언제든지 ping하십시오.보잉! 제베디(토크) 14:22, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
사용자:잭 세바스찬
| (관리자 이외의 폐쇄)이 보고서의 바로 주제인 아담스톰과 잭 세바스찬의 미개한 논쟁이 진정된 것으로 보인다.만약 이들 사용자들 중 한 명이 독립적으로 파괴되고 있다고 느낀다면, 그들은 별도의 보고서를 제출할 수 있다.다크나이트2149 19:23, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
몇 달 동안 나는 여러 가지 다른 기사들을 통해 이 사용자로부터 언어 폭력과 괴롭힘을 당했다.이 모든 것이 오늘 내가 본 기사를 과감하게 편집한 다음 WP를 따르기를 거부했을 때 다시 고개를 들었다.BRD 또는 WP:상태조회를 하고 우리가 토론하는 동안 기사가 원래의 형태로 유지되도록 허용한다.그들은 또한 나의 토크 페이지에도 가서 내가 한 시간 안에 원하는 버전으로 기사를 복구하지 않으면 나를 차단시키겠다고 협박했고, 기사의 토크 페이지에서는 그 문제에 대해 토론을 하기보다는 나에게 이렇게 이야기 하는 것이 좋을 것이라고 판단했다.그가 나를 협박했을 때 나는 이곳에 오기로 결심했다.
이 사용자가 과감한 편집을 거쳐 선호 버전으로 남아 있는 기사를 고집한 것은 이번이 처음이 아니다. 예를 들어 나는 지난 9월 토론이 진행되는 동안 이 글을 현상대로 복원했고 설명 없이 20분 만에 되돌아갔다.또는 여기서, 토크 페이지 컨센서스에 근거하여 편집한 다음 다시 되돌아왔다; 다른 사용자가 참여하게 되었고, 잭 세바스찬이 100% 찬성하지 않는 기사 버전을 받아들이지 않았기 때문에 그들은 다시 되돌아갔다.여기서 그는 다른 사용자가 다음 편집에서 지적한 대로 과감한 편집을 처음 할 때 나에게 BRD를 사용하려고 했다.
Talk에서 논의된 내용:영재(TV 시리즈)는 토크에서 볼 수 있는 것처럼 그것을 더 악화시켰다.영재 (TV 시리즈)/아카이브 1 특히 사용자가 계속해서 몇몇 편집자, 그러나 대부분 나를, 대다수의 편집자들이 완전히 근거 없다고 생각했던 인종차별주의로 고발하는 "Fan Bingbing as Blink" 토론 내내 특히 그렇다.나는 그가 내가 한 말을 그냥 오해했다면 이해할 수 있었지만, 몇몇 사람들에 의해 그것을 설명하고 정리된 후에 그는 자신의 주장을 계속하기 위한 방법으로 우리를 인종차별주의자로 규정하는 것을 계속 고집했다.그는 또 기사를 심각하게 개선하려고 하기보다는 '팬보이 크러쉬'에 의해서만 동기부여를 받았을 뿐이라는 등 나와 내 주장에 대한 신빙성을 떨어뜨리고자 다른 것들을 꾸며내기도 했다.이 상처에 소금을 뿌리며, 사용자는 "센티넬 서비스" 하위 섹션에서 나의 영어 지식은 내 국적 때문에 그의 영어에 대한 지식보다 적어야 한다는 것을 암시했다. 그것은 내가 불쾌하게 여겼지만 그는 전혀 반성하지 않았다.그 토론에서 그는 내가 "내가 상당히 새로운 작가"(사실이 아닌)이기 때문에 내가 무엇을 하고 있는지 모르겠다고 결심했고, 이것이 그를 나보다 우월하게 만든다고 판단한 것도 그 토론에서였다.이러한 토론이 진행되는 동안 편집자는 내가 부적절하다고 생각하는 언어를 일관되게 사용하며, 그것은 종종 나를 향한 것이다.
The Emilents의 이슈는 이전에 관리자 조치를 이끌어냈다: 잭 세바스티앙은 위키피디아에서 나를 보고하였다:관리자 알림판/3RRArchive351#사용자:아담스톰.97 사용자에 의해 보고됨:잭 세바스찬(결과: 보호됨)은 그에 대한 나의 행동에 대해 페이지가 보호되고 잭 세바스찬의 공격적인 행동이 잠시 진정되기는 했지만, 그가 다시 나아가는 데는 오랜 시간이 걸리지 않았다.다음 번에 잭은 위키피디아에서 다른 사용자로부터 다음과 같은 보고를 받았다.관리자 게시판/IncidentArchive972#Jack Sebastian의 편집 전쟁, 인신공격, 호킹/스토킹그것은 그 두 편집자 사이의 IBAN으로 이어졌지만, 잭이 나를 대하는 방식이나 위키백과 주변에서 그의 행동을 멈추지 않았다.토론하기 전에 한두 번 더 계속 되돌리는 것은 가끔 내 자신에게 도움이 되지 않는다는 것을 알고 있지만, 그것은 항상 다른 모든 사람에게 나의 의지를 강요하는 것이 아니라, 토크 페이지에서 문제를 정리하기 전에 기사를 안정화하려는 의도에서 나온다는 것이다.
몇 달 동안 이 모든 것을 다루면서 나는 지쳐버렸고, 휴일 휴식 기간 동안 상당 기간 위키피디아를 떠나게 되었다.나는 이 모든 것이 내 뒤에 있다고 생각했지만, 이제 나는 다시 그 속에 던져졌다.위키피디아를 편집하는 것은 내가 즐겨 하기 때문이고, 내가 투자받고 많은 작업을 하는 작은 기사집단이 있기 때문이다.나는 대부분의 편집자들과 좋은 업무 관계를 가지고 있고, 그 기사들을 정기적으로 작업하고 있으며, 그것을 내 하루의 일부로 만드는 것을 즐긴다.그러나 잭 세바스찬이 나타날 때마다, 나는 모든 사람들이 더 잘 지내고 올바른 결정을 내리도록 돕는 BRD나 상태조사와 같은 일들에 직면하는 것을 포함하여, 내가 정당한 이유 없이 경멸과 맹세를 받고 되돌아갈 것이라는 것을 알고 있다.공격과 협박에 질렸을 뿐, 이번에는 도망가지 않기로 했다.여기서 가장 좋은 행동의 원인이 무엇인지 모르겠고, 나 같은 사람들이 그를 수용하기 위해 좋아하는 일을 그만두는 동안 그가 무죄로 풀려나는 것을 보고 싶지 않을 뿐이다. - 아담스톰97 (토크) 00:43, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 아담스턴이 "수비가 좋은 공격"이라는 말을 얼마나 마음에 새겼는지 흥미롭다고 생각한다(읽기: 공격적이다).결국 나는 그에게 아주 빠른 속도로 세 번이나 뒤돌아본 뒤(1, 2, 3) 자수를 부탁했다.나는 그의 페이지를 방문해서, a) 편집-전쟁은 합의를 도출하는 어리석은 방법이고, b) 우리의 EW 차단 정책이 전기 울타리가 아니라는 것을 그에게 알려주었다. 만약 당신이 POV를 다른 사람에게 강요하기 위해 잘못 사용하고 있다면, 당신은 3개 미만의 편집으로 차단될 수 있다.분명히, 그가 그 토론에서 손을 떼는 것은 내가 그를 보고하기 전에 나를 보고하는 것이었다.
- 나는 그에게 자기반복하고 토론 페이지를 이용하도록 한 시간을 주었다.우리의 이전 상호작용 때문에, 그는 내가 말한 것이 진심이라는 것을 완전히 잘 알고 있고, 그래서 대신 나의 "행동"에 대해 글을 올리기로 결정했다: 이 불평은 다가오는 AN:3R 불평의 물꼬를 막으려는 냉소적인 시도다.아담은 이런 일을 한다. 그는 적어도 두 번은 해본 적이 있다.그리고 그래, 그는 인종차별주의 편집으로 불려 나왔고, 모든 아시아인들은 기본적으로 서로 교환할 수 있다는 것을 암시했다.언쿨은 AGF의 공백을 메우기 시작하지도 않았는데, 사용자들이 사과하지 않았을 뿐만 아니라, 여전히 그들이 완전히 결백하다고 주장하고 있다.
- 비록 이것이 내용 문제의 장소는 아니지만, 나는 나의 복귀가 단순히 성명서를 지지하는 출처를 요구했다는 것을 지적하고 싶다.내가 토론을 시작했지 애덤스턴이 아니었어그는 한 번 대답하고 나서 다시 되돌아갔다.그의 평소 행동에 따르면.
- 마지막으로 @Maile66: 7개월 전까지만 해도 나는 4년 동안 차단되지 않았음을 지적할 것이다.어쩌면 그것이 내 행동의 '패턴'이 되어서는 안 될지도 모른다.내가 우아함과 비슷한 것으로 편집광들에게 고통을 주지 않는 것은 전적으로 사실이지만, 나는 그들이 그것을 절대 받을 자격이 없는 한 그들의 허튼소리에 대해 아무에게도 전화하지 않는다.그래서 나는 당신이 아담스톰으로부터 어떤 수동적인 공격적인 춤을 당하고 있다는 것을 정중히 제출한다. - 잭 세바스찬 (토크) 01:56, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이 편집자들은 최근에 ANI 스레드에 참여했으며 위키백과에 보관되어 있었다.관리자_noticeboard/IncidentArchive972#Jack_Sebastian의_edit-warring,_personal_attack_and_hound/stalking.나는 관련 편집자들이 민사적으로 동의하지 않는 것에 동의하기를 원하지만, 그럴 가능성은 희박해 보이고, 관련 당사자들에게 필요한 징계 제재에 대해서는 언급할 계획이 없다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:58, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 잘못된 AN/I 위협, 파워엔위키를 연결시키는 것 같아.AN/3R: oopsie에 연결하려고 했던 것 같은데.나는 아담스톰이 3RR 전기 울타리까지 바로 걸어가는 전형적인 행동이 거의 그의 것이라고 지적하는 것이 마키아벨리처럼 보일지도 모른다고 추측한다.그는 항상 그것을 하고 있고 다른 사람들은 그것에 대해 좋게 논평했다. - 잭 세바스찬 (토크) 02:13, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 내가 링크하는 것은 "잭 세바스찬과 아담스톰.97" 사이의 IBAN 제안과 그곳의 역사가 ANI 참가자들에게 흥미로울 것이다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:16, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 오, 맙소사, 네 말이 맞아. 아담스톰은 그 안에서 작은 역할을 했어.너도 한몫 한 것 같군아담스톰이 모든 일에 휘말릴 때마다 당신이 그냥 들러서 "행복하다"는 것이 흥미롭다.흠. - 잭 세바스찬 (대화) 03:03, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 아직 결정되지 않은 이유로 많은 ANI 쓰레드에 대해 논평한다.내가 당신 편이었는지 아니면 알렉스 더위비안이 그 실타래 안에 있었는지 확실하지 않지만, 내가 의심하는 것은 "모두 사이좋게 지낼 수 없을지 아니면 시간을 절약하기 위해 많은 TBAN을 하자"이다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:06, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 오, 맙소사, 네 말이 맞아. 아담스톰은 그 안에서 작은 역할을 했어.너도 한몫 한 것 같군아담스톰이 모든 일에 휘말릴 때마다 당신이 그냥 들러서 "행복하다"는 것이 흥미롭다.흠. - 잭 세바스찬 (대화) 03:03, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 내가 링크하는 것은 "잭 세바스찬과 아담스톰.97" 사이의 IBAN 제안과 그곳의 역사가 ANI 참가자들에게 흥미로울 것이다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:16, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 잘못된 AN/I 위협, 파워엔위키를 연결시키는 것 같아.AN/3R: oopsie에 연결하려고 했던 것 같은데.나는 아담스톰이 3RR 전기 울타리까지 바로 걸어가는 전형적인 행동이 거의 그의 것이라고 지적하는 것이 마키아벨리처럼 보일지도 모른다고 추측한다.그는 항상 그것을 하고 있고 다른 사람들은 그것에 대해 좋게 논평했다. - 잭 세바스찬 (토크) 02:13, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 물론 아니지, 하지만 자네가 상당히 편파적인 연결고리를 추가한 건 자네야, 이 논의와 모든 관계가 있다는 걸 암시하고 있지.아담스톰이 여기서 회전을 시작한 사람이라는 것을 지적하고, 전기 울타리로 올라올 때까지 멈추지 않았다.나는 대화를 시작했다.나는 심지어 상대방 사용자에게 자기반복하고 토론에 더 충분히 참여하라고 경고했다.그들의 언어?AN/I에 보고하십시오.내가 보기에, 나는 작지만 헌신적인 이기주의 편집자 그룹이 있는데, 그들은 기사를 소유하고 사소한 편집작업에 종사한다. - 잭 세바스찬 (토크) 03:40, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
나는 잭 사바스티안의 학대를 받고 있는 운명에 처했다.그는 A급 얼간이로, 내가 편집하는 것을 금지하면서 내가 편집하는 것을 그만 두라는 경고를 받았다.많은 사람들이 그의 연설이 금지된 것 같다.누구든 내 토크 페이지를 이용하여 곤경에 처할 수 있다.레거시pac (대화) 03:17, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 거친 두슈카노에에서처럼 "두슈"라는 철자가 붙었어.내가 사랑하는 팬클럽이 '에디트'에서 벗어나 인사하는 시간을 갖는다는 것은 반가운 일이다. - 잭 세바스찬(토크) 03:27, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
잭 세바스찬을 거듭 꾸짖은 후, 나는 이제 잭 세바스찬을 변호할 것이다.여기의 많은 차이점들은 낡았다.토크:영재 (TV 시리즈)는 1월 이후로 편집되지 않았다.뉴 돌연변이(영화)의 콘텐츠 논쟁/편집 전쟁과 그 토크 페이지에서는 둘 다 좋아 보이지 않지만, 아직 막을 수 있는 공격이 아니다.WP:3O 또는 WP에서 처리:DRN, 둘 다 상호차단이 최선의 해결책이라고 생각하지 않는 한.power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:48, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 내가 이 문제를 제기한 것은 잭의 일반적인 행동과 해프닝의 패턴 때문이지 제공된 디프트의 특정 편집 문제가 아니다.해당 기사 토크 페이지와 같이 좀 더 적절한 장소에서 논의할 수 있다. - 아담스톰97 (대화) 03:56, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- "새로운/신흥 영화/TV 쇼"의 콘텐츠 영역은 그리 크지 않다. 만약 여러분이 한 명 또는 두 명 모두 함께 작업할 수 없다면, 여러분은 그 영역을 피할 수 있는 TBAN으로 끝날 것이다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:10, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 함께 일할 수 있는 것이 아니라 잭이 나를 적절하게 대할 때 나는 그와 함께 일하는 데 아무런 문제가 없다.하지만 그 순간들은 덧없고, 그것은 항상 욕설과 나의 토크 페이지에서의 인신공격으로 바로 거슬러 올라간다. 그리고 이제 나를 위협하는 것은 다음 단계다.다시는 이런 기사 편집을 그만두고 싶지 않아, 그래서 지난번처럼 또 다른 위키리크 대신 여기 온 거야. - 아담스톰97 (토크) 04:23, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 개인적으로 당신이 대화에서 편집-전쟁을 선호할 때 협력적으로 편집하는 것이 어렵다는 것을 안다: 그것은 당신과 나의 이슈의 총합이다, 아담스톰.그건 그렇고, 그리고 내 짠 언어가 너를 향하고 있다는 너의 가정은.그것은 너에 관한 것이 아니다. 그것은 내가 말하는 방식이다.내가 너에게 되돌아가라고 할 때, 모든 Veral Fistuffs™를 당신에게 씌우겠다고 협박하기 때문이 아니라, 당신의 (이모) OWNY 행동이 협업 편집에 부식되기 때문이다.나는 편집 요약을 통해 토론하는 편집자들이 실제로 토론하는 대신에 완전히 경멸한다.
- 되돌리면, 토크 페이지로 가서 해결책을 찾을 때까지 그곳에 머물러라; 두문자어를 던지지 말고, 이성적인 토론을 사용하라.그렇게 하면, 우리 문제의 98%는 바람의 방귀처럼 사라진다(글쎄, 그것도 그렇고 인종에 대한 잘못된 논평을 하지 않는다).- 잭 세바스찬 (대화) 04:31, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 함께 일할 수 있는 것이 아니라 잭이 나를 적절하게 대할 때 나는 그와 함께 일하는 데 아무런 문제가 없다.하지만 그 순간들은 덧없고, 그것은 항상 욕설과 나의 토크 페이지에서의 인신공격으로 바로 거슬러 올라간다. 그리고 이제 나를 위협하는 것은 다음 단계다.다시는 이런 기사 편집을 그만두고 싶지 않아, 그래서 지난번처럼 또 다른 위키리크 대신 여기 온 거야. - 아담스톰97 (토크) 04:23, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- "새로운/신흥 영화/TV 쇼"의 콘텐츠 영역은 그리 크지 않다. 만약 여러분이 한 명 또는 두 명 모두 함께 작업할 수 없다면, 여러분은 그 영역을 피할 수 있는 TBAN으로 끝날 것이다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:10, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이것이 훨씬 더 큰 텍스트 벽으로 변하는 것을 피하기 위해 나는 잭 세바스찬과 아담스톰을 추천한다.97년 뒷거래를 중지하고, 여기서는 IBAN이 제한되어 있고, 서로에 대한 어떠한 언급도 지지하지 않는 한 게시하지 않을 수 있다고 가장한다.이것은 그들이 문제를 해결할 가능성이 더 높아지게 할 것이다.나는 일반적으로 IBAN을 싫어하지만, 여기와 연결된 ANI에서의 행동에 기초하여, 두 분이 사물을 정중하고 간결하게 토론할 수 있는 최소한의 능력을 보여주지 않는 한, 그것이 가야 할 길이라고 생각한다.Jbh Talk 12:42, 2018년 3월 25일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 논평) 또 이러지 마!?나는 OP인 adamstom.97이 매우 비협조적인 편집자라는 것을 알게 되었는데, 그는 먼저 토론하려고 시도하지 않고 자주 편집을 자동 반복한다(변경에 대한 이성적인 주장보다 그가 임의로 결정한 "현상"을 우선시한다), 우리의 콘텐츠 정책(특히 NOR과 V)에 대한 이해가 부족하고 극도로 비협조적인 행동을 한다.나는 그에게 동의하지 않는 사람은 누구든지 매너 있게 대한다.반면 잭 세바스찬은 정책을 잘 파악하고 있다(내가 그와 자주 동의하지 않더라도) 반복적으로 밀고 당길 때 의심스러운 태도로 행동할 뿐이다.내가 알기로는 두 사람 사이의 갈등은 아담스톰.97이 아무리 인종적으로 무감각하다고 해도 아주 쉽게 읽힐 수 있는 발언을 했을 때, 그리고 잭이 이 점을 지적했을 때 아담은 "인종차별주의자가 아니다"라고 단 한 번도 고려하지 않은 채 수개월 동안 여러 번 주장하면서 극도로 방어적이 되었다.아마도 그의 수사 스타일은 쉽게 오해될 수 있고 아마도 그는 개혁을 해야 할 것이다.나는 오랫동안 아담스톰에 대해 결국 어떤 조치가 취해져야 할 것이라고 생각해 왔다.97년의 행동, 그러나 그가 목표로 삼은 편집자 중 한 명과 함께 하는 상호 IBAN은 분명 해결책이 아니다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 03:45, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 설명:비록 내가 새로운 레드링크 사용자였을 때 출처를 인용하는 것에 대해 많은 것을 가르쳐 준 세바스찬씨를 보완해야 하지만, 그는 종종 기사에 인용될 필요가 없는 것을 결정할 때 너무 지나칠 수 있다는 것을 말해야 하고, 이것은 가장 극단적인 예도 아니다(그리고 이것이 나에게서 나온 것이라는 것을 명심하라, R.WP 시행에 있어 엄격한 기준:CS 및 WP:RS 나 자신).고담과 관련된 토크 페이지(TV 시리즈)에 관한 우리의 많은 장황한 토론을 볼 수 있는데, 왜냐하면 그는 모든 코믹 영화와 TV 시리즈 기사들(예: Amygdala (코믹스))에서 모든 등장인물들이 소스 자료에서 동일한 캐릭터라고 직접 언급하면서 믿을 만한 출처를 그것에 첨부해야 한다고 주장했기 때문이다.그의 마음속에서 배트맨 비긴즈의 배트맨이 배트맨 만화책의 배트맨과 같은 배트맨이라고 직접 진술할 수 있는 출처가 필요하다.캐릭터가 코믹 캐릭터와 같은 것인지 아닌지에 대해 어떤 실제적인 모호성이 있었는지는 이해할 수 있지만(예를 들어 DC영화에 나오는 존 도라는 캐릭터는 카퍼헤드에 대한 자동 참조가 아니다), 어떤 것들은 그저 상식일 뿐이다.로보캅 2의 로보캅이 원작과 똑같은 캐릭터라는 것을 말해줄 출처는 필요없지 않은가?잭 세바스찬은 또한 전쟁을 재빨리 편집하고 때로는 WP를 위협할 때 총을 날릴 수 있다.ANI. 나는 그가 그러한 보고서를 제출하고
AlexTheWhovian(Update - iBAN)과 같은 사용자와의 열띤 논쟁을 벌인 후 얼마 전 관리자로부터 BU메랑에 주의하라는 경고를 받은 것을 알고 있는데, 그 중 한 명이 2018년 3월 26일 06:00, UTC(UndamKnight2149 06:00, UTC)로 대화를 나누기 전이었다.내가 끼어들고 나서 내 토크 페이지로 넘어갔다.다크나이트2149 05:31, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- @Darknight2149: 당신은 모르고 있을지 모르지만, 잭 세바스찬과 당신이 위의 논평에서 ping한 편집자는 양방향 상호 작용 금지의 대상이 된다.[17][18] 만일 당신이 핑핑한 편집자가 여기서 논평을 하려 한다면 그는 차단될 것 같고, 만일 잭이 당신에게 회답한다면 그는 금지의 경계를 회피했다는 비난을 받을 위험을 무릅쓸 것이며, 나는 그것이 당신의 입장에서 선의의 실수라는 것을 의심치 않지만, 기비를 피하기 위해 코멘트의 마지막 문장을 비우거나 치는 것이 좋을지도 모른다.ng 잭이 IBAN을 위반하도록 미끼로 유인하려는 모양나는 12월에 문제의 사용자들 사이의 분쟁을 조사해 보았으며, 확실히 양쪽이 진흙탕 싸움을 벌이고 있는 동안 나는 잭이 일반적으로 두 사람 중 덜 공격적인 사람이라는 것을 발견했기 때문에, 잭이 다른 편집자의 아이(!?)에 대해 말한 것으로 추정되는 것이 그가 동의하지 않은 후 ANI 수개월에 걸쳐서 완화되고 있는 동안에 잭은 가만히 있을 것으로 기대되어서는 안 된다.편집자와 다시 대화할 수 있도록 말이야히지리 88 (聖や) 05:53, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그들의 많은 분쟁을 알고 있었지만 (그 중 몇몇은 중립당으로서 탈선하려 했다) iBAN은 알지 못했다.나는 그의 이름을 망치고 그 언급에 대해 완전히 이해했다.다크나이트2149 06:00, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 잭 세바스찬, 당신은 전투적이고 대결적인 방식으로 뛰어난 점수를 얻는다.대신 친절하고 협력적인 방법으로 당신의 훌륭한 점을 만들 것을 제안한다.먹어봐.그 접근법은 놀라운 효과가 있다.컬렌렛328 07:27, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC) 토론하자[
- @Cullen328: 대체적으로 네 말에 동의하지만, 그 접근법이 "미국 슈퍼히어로 만화에 기반을 둔 영화와 텔레비전"이라는 특정 주제 영역에서 "놀랍게 작용한다"고 확신할 수는 없다.나는 (그 지뢰밭으로 모험을 할 때마다) 꽤 많이 가져갔고, IDHT와 "합의"(매번 똑같은 2-4명의 편집자 중)를 만나 아무것도 성취하지 못한 채 걸어나갔거나 같은 편집자들이 총구를 활활 타오르며 대문을 뛰쳐나가 혐오감에 휩싸인 채 즉시 가버렸다.한 가지 예외는 해당 기사가 GA 검토 중에 제안된 경우다.내가 ANI에 문제가 나타나는 것을 볼 때마다, 오류 편집자들은 방대한 텍스트 벽으로 토론을 조직했다.만약 더 많은 관리자들의 시선이 기사들과 그들의 토크 페이지를 보고 있었다면(혹은 커뮤니티가 GAISASHEield라는 생각을 암묵적으로 지지하지 않았더라면) 정상적인 민관협동조합 접근법이 다른 프로젝트에서 보통 그랬던 것처럼 경이로운 상황을 만들었을지도 모르지만...히지리 88 (聖聖) 10:17, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 때로는 GA 리뷰에서 제안된 해결책도 "주요 소스"가 영화 속 서로 상반되는 삭제 라인과 직접적인 프리퀄의 원래 조합이고, 두 개의 원본 자료에서 완전히 다른 정보를 수집했음에도 불구하고 "주요 소스에서 가져온 것"으로 기각된다.영화는 느슨하게 각색되었다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 22:53, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 잭 세바스찬, 당신은 전투적이고 대결적인 방식으로 뛰어난 점수를 얻는다.대신 친절하고 협력적인 방법으로 당신의 훌륭한 점을 만들 것을 제안한다.먹어봐.그 접근법은 놀라운 효과가 있다.컬렌렛328 07:27, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC) 토론하자[
- 나는 그들의 많은 분쟁을 알고 있었지만 (그 중 몇몇은 중립당으로서 탈선하려 했다) iBAN은 알지 못했다.나는 그의 이름을 망치고 그 언급에 대해 완전히 이해했다.다크나이트2149 06:00, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- @Darknight2149: 당신은 모르고 있을지 모르지만, 잭 세바스찬과 당신이 위의 논평에서 ping한 편집자는 양방향 상호 작용 금지의 대상이 된다.[17][18] 만일 당신이 핑핑한 편집자가 여기서 논평을 하려 한다면 그는 차단될 것 같고, 만일 잭이 당신에게 회답한다면 그는 금지의 경계를 회피했다는 비난을 받을 위험을 무릅쓸 것이며, 나는 그것이 당신의 입장에서 선의의 실수라는 것을 의심치 않지만, 기비를 피하기 위해 코멘트의 마지막 문장을 비우거나 치는 것이 좋을지도 모른다.ng 잭이 IBAN을 위반하도록 미끼로 유인하려는 모양나는 12월에 문제의 사용자들 사이의 분쟁을 조사해 보았으며, 확실히 양쪽이 진흙탕 싸움을 벌이고 있는 동안 나는 잭이 일반적으로 두 사람 중 덜 공격적인 사람이라는 것을 발견했기 때문에, 잭이 다른 편집자의 아이(!?)에 대해 말한 것으로 추정되는 것이 그가 동의하지 않은 후 ANI 수개월에 걸쳐서 완화되고 있는 동안에 잭은 가만히 있을 것으로 기대되어서는 안 된다.편집자와 다시 대화할 수 있도록 말이야히지리 88 (聖や) 05:53, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 잠재적 솔루션:나는 여기서 누구의 편도 들지 않지만, 이 논의에 대한 합리적인 해결책(그리고 누구도 막지 않고 끝낼 수 있는 방법)이 마블 관련 영화와 텔레비전 기사의 잭 세바스찬에게는 일시적인 TBAN이 될 것이라고 생각한다.이것은 징벌적이거나 둘 중 어느 한쪽이 비난받아야 할 사용자라는 선언도 아닐 것이다. 하지만 여기 내 추리가 있다.
- 내가 관찰한 바에 의하면 세바스찬이 관여해 온 주요 기사와 분쟁의 대부분은 코믹 관련 TV 및 영화 기사(특히 마블의 각색)에서 온 것이거나 아담스톰, 아이밴드 알렉스더워비앙(당신을 위해 답장하지 말라; 아무도 당신을 위해 당신을 비난하지 않는다)과 같은 기사를 주로 편집하는 사용자들과 함께한 적이 없다.여기), Favre1fan93, ETC.간단한 iBAN의 문제는 세바스찬이 시간이 지나면서 여러 명의 사용자들과 함께 이 작업을 해 왔다는 것인데, 세바스찬이 평소 아담스톰이 먼저 편집하는 기사를 편집하게 되면 낭패를 볼 수 있다는 것이다.세바스찬은 또한 이러한 사용자들보다 더 넓은 범위의 주제를 편집하는 것 같다.이것은 완전한 WP가 아닐 것이다.코믹스 금지, 일시적인 마블 TV와 영화 금지.일반적으로 마블 코믹스, 만화 또는 만화책과 관련된 기사들은 여전히 완전히 테이블 위에 있을 것이다.다크나이트2149 22:35, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- @Darknight2149: 그러나 Adamstom.97과 co.는 잭 세바스찬이 아니라 그러한 기사에 대한 우리의 콘텐츠 정책을 방해하고 위반하는 사람들이다; TBAN을 만드는 것은 그들이 정책을 잘못했다고 지적하는 모든 사람들을 위해 TBAN을 요청하려는 동기가 될 것이다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 22:53, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- @Hijiri88:존경하건대 누가 시작했는지는 중요하지 않으며 이것은 내용 자체에 관한 것이 아니다.아담스톰과 다른 사람들이 내 스스로 어떤 것을 위반하는 것을 보지 못했을 뿐만 아니라(내 방식대로 보내진 어떤 디프트를 보는 것에 100% 개방적이긴 하지만), 계속적인 전투에 휘말리고 다른 사용자들과 미개한 것에 대한 변명은 정말 없다.거의 모든 이러한 전투는 이 기사들과 그러한 기사들을 편집하는 사용자들과 함께 시작되었고, 세바스찬은 마블 TV/영화보다 더 큰 편집 범위를 가지고 있다.다른 사람들이 이들 기사들의 대부분에 더 많은 기여를 했고, 세바스찬이 재빨리 전쟁을 편집하고 대립적인 방식으로 의견 충돌을 일으킨다는 점을 고려하면, 그가 접촉한 다른 모든 편집자보다 이러한 기사들로부터 그를 금지시키는 것이 훨씬 합리적일 것이다.그는 또한 과거 행정가들로부터 ANI 위협을 파괴적인 행동의 방패라기 보다는 검으로 사용하는 것에 대해 경고를 받았다.내가 제안한 TBAN은 실질적인 것이 아니라(아마도 관리자가 보기에 적합하다고 생각하는 것에 따라 한 달 정도밖에 되지 않을 것이다) 마블 TV와 영화 기사만 포함하고 다른 것은 전혀 없을 것이다.ANI는 콘텐츠 분쟁을 다루지 않고, 불간섭과 혼란의 사건을 다룬다.끊임없는 세바스찬/Whovian 전쟁으로 상황은 상호 교류 금지로 해결되었다.하지만 세바스찬이 이후에도 계속해서 다른 사용자들과의 싸움을 시작하거나 참여한다면, 이것은 실행 가능한 선택으로 보인다.다크나이트2149 23:42, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- @Darknight2149: SYNTH, 날짜/신뢰할 수 없는 출처의 부적절한 사용 및 기타 만연한 문제를 보기 위해 그가 작업하는 어떤 기사만 읽으면 되고, 그것을 고치려고 하면 이와 같은 터무니없는 비굴함에 직면하게 된다.인종차별적인 인터넷 트롤로 대표되는 영화처럼 영화에 대한 중국인의 반응을 제시하는 것은 부적절하다는 정당한 우려를 제기할 때, 그는 무작위로 '자유 대 보수'에 대해 이야기한다.[19]
이러한 전투
는 거의모두 이러한 기사와 그러한 기사를 편집하는 사용자들로부터 시작되었고, 세바스찬은 마블 TV/영화 이상의 편집 범위를 가지고
있다.
다른 사람들이 이들 기사들의 대부분에 더 많은 기여를 했고, 세바스찬이 재빨리 전쟁을 편집하고 대립적인 방식으로 의견 충돌을 일으킨다는 점을 고려하면, 그가 접촉한 다른 모든 편집자보다 이러한 기사들로부터 그를 금지시키는 것이 훨씬 합리적일 것이다.
WP:현지 컨센서스: 에코 챔버의 일부 편집자들은 더 넓은 프로젝트의 의견을 강요해 왔고, 그들의 형편없는 소싱 기준에 근거하여 기사를 작성하고, 그것들을 GAN을 통해 밀어내고 있다. (이것은, 내가 직접 GAs의 다수의 지명자로서 증명할 수 있는 것은, 그다지 면밀한 검토 과정이 아니다. 내 검토자들 대부분은 심지어 t를 읽을 수도 없었다.그는 출처를 밝혔으나 그런 얘기는 꺼내지도 않았다) 그리고 나서 그들이 좋아하지 않는 편집을 자동 되돌리기 위해 기사의 GA 상태를 이용했다.ANI는 콘텐츠 분쟁을 다루지 않고, 불간섭과 혼란의 사건을 다룬다.
사실 ANI는 선의의 콘텐츠 분쟁이 있을 때 콘텐츠 분쟁을 다루지 않고, 편집 전쟁, 콘텐츠 정책 위반 등을 항상 다루며, 사실 TBAN은 콘텐츠를 보지도 않고 '부실성'만을 위해 배치되는 경우가 거의 없는데, 이는 매우 나쁜 선례가 될 것이기 때문이다.그리고 당신은 지금 세 번째로 꺼낸 IBAN을 이끌어낸 상황을 이해하지 못한 것 같다(Again, 이것은 점점 미끼로 보인다). 필리버스터를 멈추게 하는 것은 불행한 타협이었고, 나는 그것을 주도했던 사람이었기 때문에 알고 있으며, 실제로 같은 Adamstom/Jack 디스패치에서 빠져 나왔다.아담은 아시아에 사는 사람이라면 누구나 인종차별주의자로 해석할 수 있을 것 같은 발언을 한 뒤 "나는 인종차별주의자가 아니다"라는 무응답으로 몇 달 동안 잭을 괴롭혔다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 23:58, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[ - BTW, 만일 모교적인 '배팅' 비트(boating)'가 나쁜 믿음의 가정처럼 보인다면 미안하지만, 나는 잭이 괴롭힘을 당하는 것을 보았기 때문에 자발적인 상호 IBAN을 취하도록 설득한 사람이었고, 또 다른 편집자의 자발적인 상호 IBAN을 "선제"로 꺼내어 추가적인 일방적 제재를 가하도록 한 것은 상당히 낮은 타격이다.나는 과거에 그것을 해 본 적이 있는데, 잭이 왜 그것을 참아내야 하는지 모르겠다. 특히 이 토론은 그가 누구와 함께 IBANN을 가졌는지에 대한 것이 아니기 때문에 잭이 자신을 방어할 수 없는 상황에서 말이다.만약 당신이 지금 경고를 받은 상태에서 그것을 꺼내는 것을 멈추지 않는다면, 나는 당신을 위해 어떤 종류의 일방적 제재가 시행되어야 한다고 생각한다.다시 말하지만, 당신은 어제까지 IBAN에 대해 몰랐다는 것을 인정했고, 당신이 위에서
말한
바와 같이,아담스톰과 다른 사람들
이 내자신을 위반
하는 것을보지 못했다고
말했기 때문에, 당신은 그 동안IBAN
에 대해 전혀 알지 못했다는 것을 분명히 깨닫지 못했다.
e
내길을 택한 모든 디프트를 보는
데100
% 개방).
히지리 88 (聖聖) 00:15, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[- @히지리88: 방금 협박했어?당신이 ANI를 다른 무엇보다도 당신의 위키프로젝트 목표와 아담스톰에 대한 당신의 이슈를 홍보하기 위해 사용하고 있는 것으로 들리기 때문이다.난 세바스찬을 내가 아는 것보다 훨씬 더 오래 알고 있었고, 당신은 그가 당신이 나를 탐문 수사라고 비난했던 사용자들 중 하나였다는 것을 기억할지 모른다.WP를 시작하는 경우:다시 한 번, 나는 너를 중재 위원회에 데려가는 것을 매우 기쁠 것이다. 왜냐하면 나는 지난 번 사건으로부터 수집된 너에 대한 증거를 가지고 있고 그것은 (너를 도왔던 다른 네 명의 사용자들과 함께) 꽤 실망스럽기 때문이다.우리는 지난번 사건을 반복하지 않을 것이다.내가 하는 말이 마음에 들지 않으면 아예 답장을 하지 말 것을 제안한다.우리의 과거 분쟁이 이 가운데로 끌려가서는 안 될 것이야.
- "그리고 당신은 지금 당신이 세 번째로 제기했던 IBAN을 초래한 상황을 이해하지 못한 것 같다." - 사실, 나는 알렉스와 세바스찬 사이에 몇 달 동안 지속된 열띤 전쟁과 인신공격에 대해 잘 알고 있다.나는 이러한 사례들 중 몇 가지를 관찰했을 뿐만 아니라, 앞서 지적한 바와 같이, 내가 침착하게 개입했을 때 어느 순간 그것들은 내 토크 페이지에 쏟아졌다.나는 또한 그가 전쟁을 빨리 편집하고, ANI를 빨리 위협하고, (내가 위에 이름붙인 것 중 일부) 출처들을 인용할 때 불합리한 요구를 하고, 그가 공공연히 대립하는 방식으로 끊임없이 다른 사용자들과 싸움을 걸며, 이 줄기의 여러 사용자들이 내가 지은 행동을 개인적으로 관찰해 왔다.매우 유사한 행동을 지적했다.그뿐만 아니라 방금 네가 보여준 여러 면에서 아담은 분명히 화가 나 있지만 나는 제재를 받을 만큼 그들을 미개하다고 부르지는 않을 것이다.사실, WP에 대한 당신의 가정은 다음과 같다.BADFAITH는 아담의 말보다 쉽게 더 파괴적인데, 당신은 아마도 당신이 나를 토론에서 몰아내도록 도와주기 위해 드레이아스를 초대하고 싶은 희망으로 또 다른 분쟁을 일으키기 위해 제기할 것이다(그리고, 내 말을 믿어, 여기서 우리 사이에 논쟁은 없을 것이다; 당신은 내가 해야 할 말을 무시하거나, 우리는 서로에게 시민적으로 회신하거나, 아니면 그것은 ArbCom에게 떠넘긴다.당신이 무언가를 시도하도록 설득한다.난 미끼를 물지 않을 거야.
- 나는 IBAN을 어떤 것의 선례로 사용하지 않을 것이다.나는 잭 세바스찬의 과거 행동을 이것의 선례로 삼고 있다.그리고 관리자들을 포함한 이 게시물에 대한 다른 사용자들의 의견을 보면, 지난 몇 년 동안 그에게서 이런 행동을 관찰한 사람은 나뿐만이 아니라는 것이 명백하다.아담스톰의 정말 부정할 수 없는 파괴적이고 미개한 행동을 보여줘. 그러면 내 제안을 그만둘지도 모르지그러나 그때에도 매우 구체적인 주제(이 경우 마블 TV/영화)를 편집하는 사람들과 끊임없이 싸움을 벌이는 것은 TBAN의 질문을 확실히 정당화한다.당신이 콘텐츠의 차이점에 대해 더 걱정하는 반면, 나는 진정한 혼란에 더 관심이 있다.다크나이트2149 01:29, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 잠깐, 뭐라고?알렉스를 세 번 연속으로 키운 건 너야, 내가 하지 말라고 한 뒤 두 번.사실은 두 사람 사이의 IBan이 양쪽 편집자의 입장에서 상호적이고 자발적이었기 때문에 그것을 더 이상의 일방적 제재의 선례로 제기하려고 하는 것은 부적절하며, 잭이 독자적으로 가했던 관계없는 제재와 관련이 있기 때문에 독자 분의 논평에 대응할 수 없는 입장에 놓이게 하는 것이다.잠재적으로 차단되지 않고 토론하는 것은 최상으로 매우 부적절하며, 점점 더 의도적인 WP처럼 보인다.PINGGGAMING(사용자:블랙 카이트(Black Kite)는 알렉스/잭 IBAN이 자발적이고 상호적이며, 그래서 "잭은 더 이상의 제재를 받아야 할 나쁜 소년"의 선례로 사용되어서는 안 된다는 나의 주장을 뒷받침하기 위해, 나는 알렉스가 금지령 이후 상당히 파괴적인 행동을 하는 것을 본 적이 있지만, 나는 잭의 이름을 무작위로 토론에 던져 발표하려는 생각은 전혀 하지 않았다.마치 알렉스가 그의 무례함에 대해 제재를 받은 것처럼)친절하고 자비로운 행정관이 불특정 길이의 TBAN(즉, 무한정)에 대한 합의를 무시하기로 결정했기 때문에, 당신은 단지 그것을 기다리고 있다가 아무 일도 일어나지 않은 척하는 것보다 어느 정도의 잘못을 인정하도록 요구했을 것이기 때문에, 당신은 단지 여기에 있는 직위만 허용된다.다른 쪽의 혼란의 확산은 무시한 채 당파적이고 일방적인 제안을 하면서 정말로 불장난을 하고 있다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 01:47, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- FTR, 나는 편집 요약과 첫 문장을 넘어서는 DK의 긴 글을 대부분 읽지 못했고, 그가 이미 드미스를 핑핑한 것을 알지 못했다-- 아이러니하게도, 그는 누구보다 나를 차단해 주었지만, 그리고... 내가 정말로 행복하지 않은 몇 가지 다른 것들에도 불구하고, 나를 위해 드미즈가 어떤 실이라는 주장을 했다.어찌됐든 내가 관련 주제 영역에서 DK의 이전 제재를 처음 발동한 것은 내가 여기서 원한을 품고 있는 사람이 아님을 보여준다.히지리 88 (聖やや) 02:21, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)
- 첫째, 너는 나의 사장이 아니다.둘째, "두 사람 사이의 IBAN이 양쪽 편집자 입장에서 상호적이고 자발적이었기 때문에, 그것을 더 이상의 일방적 제재의 선례로 제기하려고 하는 것은 부적절하다"고 계속 진술함으로써, 당신이 내가 말한 것의 반을 분명히 읽지 않았다는 것을 보여준다.나는 또한 이 모든 일에서 세바스찬만이 유일하게 틀린 사람이라는 것을 암시하지 않았다.네가 좀 더 적절해질 때까지, 내가 너에게 할 말은 다 한 것 같아.나는 네가 무엇을 시도하는지 알고 있고 나의 경고는 최종적이다.만약 당신이 내가 여기서 당신과 논쟁하거나 과거로 뛰어들기를 기대한다면, 우리는 분명히 여기서 그렇게 하지 않을 것이다.이 작은 만남이 우리가 무슨 얘기를 하고 있는지 궁금해 하는 누군가에게 화풀이를 당하지 않더라도 나는 놀라지 않을 것이다.그러한 악의에 대한 위협과 가정은 분명히 매우 고의적이고 부적절했으며, 우리의 역사를 볼 때, 편향된 것이었다 - "그리고 당신은 지금 세 번째로 IBAN을 제기하게 된 상황을 이해하지 못한 것 같다(반대한다, 이것은 점점 미끼로 보인다). 지금 경고를 받은 상태에서 그 얘기를 멈추지 않는다면, 나는 당신을 위해 어떤 종류의 일방적 제재가 시행되어야 한다고 생각한다."다크나이트2149 02:00, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 답장하기 전에 처음부터 끝까지 너의 첫 번째 댓글을 읽었어. 하지만 마지막은 너의 편집 요약과 첫 문장에 대한 답장이었어. 나는 네가 나에 대한 주제 밖의 공격을 더 이상 읽고 싶지 않아.당신은 추가적인 일방적 제재를 위한 증거로서 상호간의 자발적 IBAN을 발동할 수 없다(나는 이것을 경험으로 알고 있다. 나는 과거에 3개의 상호간의 자발적 IBAN의 주체가 되어 왔으며, 그 중 2개는 관련 없는 분쟁에서 나에게 추가적인 제재를 받기 위한 시도에 이용되었다).그리고 당신은 이
모든
일에서 세바스찬이 유일한 잘못이라는 것
을 암시했든 아니든 간에 잭에 대한 일방적 제재를 분명히 제안했었습니다.위에서 (그리고 내 토크 페이지에서) 방금 한 것처럼 정중하게 그만두라고 한 것에 대해 나를 비난하지 마라; 비록 나 자신이 이 모든 실이 열차 파괴로 닫혔고 모든 사람들이 아무런 제재도 받지 않고 각자의 길을 갔더라도, 그것은 거의 당신에게 좋게 끝나지 않을 것이라고 장담할 수 있다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 02:12, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 답장하기 전에 처음부터 끝까지 너의 첫 번째 댓글을 읽었어. 하지만 마지막은 너의 편집 요약과 첫 문장에 대한 답장이었어. 나는 네가 나에 대한 주제 밖의 공격을 더 이상 읽고 싶지 않아.당신은 추가적인 일방적 제재를 위한 증거로서 상호간의 자발적 IBAN을 발동할 수 없다(나는 이것을 경험으로 알고 있다. 나는 과거에 3개의 상호간의 자발적 IBAN의 주체가 되어 왔으며, 그 중 2개는 관련 없는 분쟁에서 나에게 추가적인 제재를 받기 위한 시도에 이용되었다).그리고 당신은 이
- 첫째, 너는 나의 사장이 아니다.둘째, "두 사람 사이의 IBAN이 양쪽 편집자 입장에서 상호적이고 자발적이었기 때문에, 그것을 더 이상의 일방적 제재의 선례로 제기하려고 하는 것은 부적절하다"고 계속 진술함으로써, 당신이 내가 말한 것의 반을 분명히 읽지 않았다는 것을 보여준다.나는 또한 이 모든 일에서 세바스찬만이 유일하게 틀린 사람이라는 것을 암시하지 않았다.네가 좀 더 적절해질 때까지, 내가 너에게 할 말은 다 한 것 같아.나는 네가 무엇을 시도하는지 알고 있고 나의 경고는 최종적이다.만약 당신이 내가 여기서 당신과 논쟁하거나 과거로 뛰어들기를 기대한다면, 우리는 분명히 여기서 그렇게 하지 않을 것이다.이 작은 만남이 우리가 무슨 얘기를 하고 있는지 궁금해 하는 누군가에게 화풀이를 당하지 않더라도 나는 놀라지 않을 것이다.그러한 악의에 대한 위협과 가정은 분명히 매우 고의적이고 부적절했으며, 우리의 역사를 볼 때, 편향된 것이었다 - "그리고 당신은 지금 세 번째로 IBAN을 제기하게 된 상황을 이해하지 못한 것 같다(반대한다, 이것은 점점 미끼로 보인다). 지금 경고를 받은 상태에서 그 얘기를 멈추지 않는다면, 나는 당신을 위해 어떤 종류의 일방적 제재가 시행되어야 한다고 생각한다."다크나이트2149 02:00, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- FTR, 나는 편집 요약과 첫 문장을 넘어서는 DK의 긴 글을 대부분 읽지 못했고, 그가 이미 드미스를 핑핑한 것을 알지 못했다-- 아이러니하게도, 그는 누구보다 나를 차단해 주었지만, 그리고... 내가 정말로 행복하지 않은 몇 가지 다른 것들에도 불구하고, 나를 위해 드미즈가 어떤 실이라는 주장을 했다.어찌됐든 내가 관련 주제 영역에서 DK의 이전 제재를 처음 발동한 것은 내가 여기서 원한을 품고 있는 사람이 아님을 보여준다.히지리 88 (聖やや) 02:21, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)
- 잠깐, 뭐라고?알렉스를 세 번 연속으로 키운 건 너야, 내가 하지 말라고 한 뒤 두 번.사실은 두 사람 사이의 IBan이 양쪽 편집자의 입장에서 상호적이고 자발적이었기 때문에 그것을 더 이상의 일방적 제재의 선례로 제기하려고 하는 것은 부적절하며, 잭이 독자적으로 가했던 관계없는 제재와 관련이 있기 때문에 독자 분의 논평에 대응할 수 없는 입장에 놓이게 하는 것이다.잠재적으로 차단되지 않고 토론하는 것은 최상으로 매우 부적절하며, 점점 더 의도적인 WP처럼 보인다.PINGGGAMING(사용자:블랙 카이트(Black Kite)는 알렉스/잭 IBAN이 자발적이고 상호적이며, 그래서 "잭은 더 이상의 제재를 받아야 할 나쁜 소년"의 선례로 사용되어서는 안 된다는 나의 주장을 뒷받침하기 위해, 나는 알렉스가 금지령 이후 상당히 파괴적인 행동을 하는 것을 본 적이 있지만, 나는 잭의 이름을 무작위로 토론에 던져 발표하려는 생각은 전혀 하지 않았다.마치 알렉스가 그의 무례함에 대해 제재를 받은 것처럼)친절하고 자비로운 행정관이 불특정 길이의 TBAN(즉, 무한정)에 대한 합의를 무시하기로 결정했기 때문에, 당신은 단지 그것을 기다리고 있다가 아무 일도 일어나지 않은 척하는 것보다 어느 정도의 잘못을 인정하도록 요구했을 것이기 때문에, 당신은 단지 여기에 있는 직위만 허용된다.다른 쪽의 혼란의 확산은 무시한 채 당파적이고 일방적인 제안을 하면서 정말로 불장난을 하고 있다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 01:47, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- @Darknight2149: SYNTH, 날짜/신뢰할 수 없는 출처의 부적절한 사용 및 기타 만연한 문제를 보기 위해 그가 작업하는 어떤 기사만 읽으면 되고, 그것을 고치려고 하면 이와 같은 터무니없는 비굴함에 직면하게 된다.인종차별적인 인터넷 트롤로 대표되는 영화처럼 영화에 대한 중국인의 반응을 제시하는 것은 부적절하다는 정당한 우려를 제기할 때, 그는 무작위로 '자유 대 보수'에 대해 이야기한다.[19]
- @Hijiri88:존경하건대 누가 시작했는지는 중요하지 않으며 이것은 내용 자체에 관한 것이 아니다.아담스톰과 다른 사람들이 내 스스로 어떤 것을 위반하는 것을 보지 못했을 뿐만 아니라(내 방식대로 보내진 어떤 디프트를 보는 것에 100% 개방적이긴 하지만), 계속적인 전투에 휘말리고 다른 사용자들과 미개한 것에 대한 변명은 정말 없다.거의 모든 이러한 전투는 이 기사들과 그러한 기사들을 편집하는 사용자들과 함께 시작되었고, 세바스찬은 마블 TV/영화보다 더 큰 편집 범위를 가지고 있다.다른 사람들이 이들 기사들의 대부분에 더 많은 기여를 했고, 세바스찬이 재빨리 전쟁을 편집하고 대립적인 방식으로 의견 충돌을 일으킨다는 점을 고려하면, 그가 접촉한 다른 모든 편집자보다 이러한 기사들로부터 그를 금지시키는 것이 훨씬 합리적일 것이다.그는 또한 과거 행정가들로부터 ANI 위협을 파괴적인 행동의 방패라기 보다는 검으로 사용하는 것에 대해 경고를 받았다.내가 제안한 TBAN은 실질적인 것이 아니라(아마도 관리자가 보기에 적합하다고 생각하는 것에 따라 한 달 정도밖에 되지 않을 것이다) 마블 TV와 영화 기사만 포함하고 다른 것은 전혀 없을 것이다.ANI는 콘텐츠 분쟁을 다루지 않고, 불간섭과 혼란의 사건을 다룬다.끊임없는 세바스찬/Whovian 전쟁으로 상황은 상호 교류 금지로 해결되었다.하지만 세바스찬이 이후에도 계속해서 다른 사용자들과의 싸움을 시작하거나 참여한다면, 이것은 실행 가능한 선택으로 보인다.다크나이트2149 23:42, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- @Darknight2149: 그러나 Adamstom.97과 co.는 잭 세바스찬이 아니라 그러한 기사에 대한 우리의 콘텐츠 정책을 방해하고 위반하는 사람들이다; TBAN을 만드는 것은 그들이 정책을 잘못했다고 지적하는 모든 사람들을 위해 TBAN을 요청하려는 동기가 될 것이다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 22:53, 2018년 3월 26일 (UTC)[
- 한숨 쉬어. 잭, 난 우리가 한때 무엇에 대해 말다툼을 했는지도 기억나지 않지만, 넌 정말 사람을 진정시킬 필요가 있어.나는 네가 약간의 충고를 듣고 동의하기를 바라며, 그 문제에 대해 개인적인 관점을 좀 보여주길 바란다.GMGtalk 00:20, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 만약 우리가 분쟁을 벌였더라면, GreenMeansGo는 너무 오래 전이었거나 내가 기억하지 못할 정도로 작은 것이었을 것이다.
- 내가 아마 반대 의견이 있을 때 다른 사람들과 훨씬 덜 잘 어울릴 수 있다는 것은 전적으로 사실이다.나는 완전히 자기 자신의 행동을 경멸하며, 만화책과 관련된 기사에서 그러한 행동을 많이 본다.그곳에서 편집할 때, 나는 10번 중 9번 - 미등록 자료를 태깅하고 있다(한편, DK는 내가 배트맨에게 배트맨 비욘드 표창을 부탁하는 방법에 대해 호들갑을 떨었다; 그것은 사실이 아니지만, BB에 묘사된 배트맨이 만화책에서 나온 배트맨이 아니라는 것을 지적하는 것은 내포하고 있다).연예 관련 기사들은 팬 포럼에 관한 것들로 매우 자주 다루어지기 때문에, 그들은 더 많은 관심이 필요하다.
- 위키피디아에 전념할 시간이 많지 않기 때문에, 나는 작은 불을 끄고 내가 할 수 있는 작은 과정들을 수정하는 것에 집중한다.DK는 기껏해야 내가 편집자일 뿐 아니라 최근의 역사도 놓치고 있다고 말했다.나는 거의 항상 토론을 시작하거나, 두 편집자 사이에서 문제가 해결될 수 없을 때 RfC를 통해 루프를 넓히는 것을 제안한다.
- 만화책, 만화책, 영화, TV응용 외에 흥미가 있지만, 나는 그것들을 청소하는 것을 즐긴다.편집 사유 중 절반을 없애는 주제 금지에는 관심이 없다.
- 나는 이것에 흠이 없는 것이 아니다; 나는 내가 '신의 미완성 예술 프로젝트'라는 것을 인정했고, 불쾌한 사람들을 고통스럽게 하는 데 종종 어려움을 겪는다.하지만 나는 그렇게 하기 위해 더 노력할 거야.만약 그들이 통제할 수 없게 된다면, 나는 단지 관찰 루프를 넓혀서 다른 사람들이 내가 생각하는 똥머리 행태를 살필 수 있도록 할 것이다.그들이 실제로 그런 사람이라는 공감대가 형성되지 않는 한, 더 이상 그 누구도 "하쉬 더치캐노"라고 부르지 않는다.
- 그럼 문제가 해결되나? - 잭 세바스찬 (대화) 04:40, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 공평하게 말하자면, 나는 배트맨 비긴즈라고 말했고 비욘드라고 말했고, 그 논평은 정보원을 인용하는 것에 관한 한 당신이 너무 극단적일 수 있다는 것을 지적하기 위한 것이 아니었다.하지만, 그것과는 별도로, 당신이 말한 다른 모든 것들은 어느 정도 이해할 수 있는 것처럼 들리고, 여기서 내가 걱정하는 유일한 것은 편집 전쟁, 불규칙성, ETC뿐인데, 그것은 또한 때로는 상호적이기도 하고 너만 100%가 아니었다.나는 기꺼이 나의 제안을 거절할 용의가 있다. 당신이 더 적은 대립을 위해 노력하고 다른 사람들의 불친절함에 더 잘 대처하려고 노력한다는 조건으로.당신이 모욕과 뭐 그런 것들을 되돌려 줄 때, 관리자들은 당신이 그것을 시작하지 않았더라도 똑같이 파괴적인 것으로 볼 것이다.다크나이트2149 05:13, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
- 한편, 나는 Hijiri88을 대변할 수는 없지만, 우리의 작은 만남이 이 토론을 방해한 것에 대해 사과할 의무가 있다고 생각한다. 특히 이 토론이 대립을 피하기 위한 것이라는 점을 고려한다면 말이다.다크나이트2149 05:23, 2018년 3월 27일 (UTC)[
나는 그것이 주제에서 벗어난 것 같았고 나는 현실세계적인 것들로 바빴기 때문에 여기에 대해 전혀 논평하지 않았다.이것을 단순하게 하기 위해, 이것은 어떤 특정한 내용 문제에 관한 것이 아니다.잭과 나는 시간이 좀 걸리더라도 우리가 알아서 잘 처리할 수 있다.이 부분은 단순히 잭의 특정한 행동에 관한 것이다.나는 단지 선서하기 위해, 인종 차별주의로 비난받거나 같은 사람에 의해 인종차별주의적인 발언을 당하거나, 내 자신의 토크 페이지에서 위협을 받으려고 이 위키피디아를 개선하는데 내 시간을 자원하지 않는다.누가 더 고집이 세고 경계선이 무너지는가를 떠나(나는 내가 먼저 되돌리는 것을 좋아하고, 나중에 그것이 여전히 문제라면 토론을 시작하고, 잭은 자신의 개인적인 버전의 기사를 먼저 보관하고 그에 대한 새로운 합의가 형성되면 그것을 바꾸는 것을 좋아하는데, 둘 다 그렇게 보이지 않는 것 같다.이상), 이런 행동은 괜찮지 않으며 적어도 다른 편집자와 대화하거나 앞으로 나아가겠다고 협박하는 것에 대해 경고를 받았으면 한다. - 아담스톰97 (대화) 23:19, 2018년 3월 29일 (UTC)[하라
- @아담스톰.97:@잭 세바스찬:이 논의는 활동적인 면에서는 불모지가 되었다.만약 너희 둘 다 의견 불일치에서 비대립적이 되도록 노력하기로 동의한다면, 나는 이것이 계속되거나 누군가가 제재를 받을 이유가 없다고 본다.지금 당장은, 이 페이지에 있는 별도의 사용자들이 양쪽 모두를 파괴적인 활동이라고 비난했지만, 만약 당신이 이런 종류의 일이 다시는 또는 계속적으로 일어나지 않을 것이라는 것을 보여준다면, 나는 관리자들이 제재 없이 이 토론을 끝내는 데 아무런 문제가 없을 것이라고 생각한다.다크나이트2149 19:54, 2018년 3월 31일 (UTC)[
히지리의 문제
우리 친구 히지리88이 꺼낸 논의는 제시카 존스(시즌 2)에서 우리가 다뤘던 작은 불협화음이다.전형적인 히지리 패션에서는 우리가 당면한 문제만을 논의하도록 허락하기 보다는, 그것은 큰 문제가 되어야 하며, 전혀 다른 논의에 무작위적인 개인적인 논평과 언급들을 포함시켜야 한다.어느 쪽이든 거기서 편집전이나 무슨 일이 벌어지고 있는 것은 아니니 굳이 왜 여기까지 끌어올려야 했는지는 잘 모르겠다.다크나이트2149의 제안에 따라 새로운 하위섹션을 시작했지만 논의가 빨리 마무리됐으면 좋겠다. - 아담스톰97 (토크) 07:32, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 히지리가 제공한 확산에서 노골적으로 파괴적인 것은 보지 못했다.그냥 주제에서 벗어나지 말고 사적인 말은 하지 말아달라고 부탁한 것 같은데, 그건 당연한 요구야.만약 그것이 당신과 세바스찬의 교전이나 편집과 아무런 관계가 없다면, 솔직히 그 문제는 제기될 필요가 없었다(적어도, 여기서는 안 된다).ANI는 다음을 위한 것이 아니라, 진정한 파괴적 행동의 사고에 대한 보고를 위한 것이다.
- 내용 불일치
- 특정 사용자가 토론 또는 민사 분쟁에서 원하는 결과를 얻을 수 있도록 지원
- 동의하지 않는 사용자를 대상으로 불꽃을 중화시키거나 부채질하거나 Wiki Project 목표를 더 이상 달성하도록 돕기 위해.
솔직히, 세바스찬과 세바스찬의 불협화음이 끝났다면, 냄비를 더 휘젓기 전에 이걸 닫는 게 좋겠어.다크나이트2149 19:05, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
앨런슨에 의한 IBAN 위반
| 이반은 48시간 블록을 통과했다.swarm 01:47, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이곳에서 알란손에 대한 IBAN이 제정된 지 불과 일주일 반밖에 되지 않았다.나는 그 협정을 계속 지켜왔고 앨런슨이 중요한 기여를 한 어떤 기사도 삭제 대상으로 지명하지 않았다.그러나 Alanson은 내가 이 편집에서 시작한 AfD 토론에 대한 응답으로 그의 IBAN을 위반했다. ANI 토론에서 "Rusf10이 시작한 AfDs에 특별히 참여하지 않는다는 것을 의미할 것"이라고 구체적으로 제안했다.평소처럼 알란손은 규칙을 따르지 않고 금지를 시행해야 한다.--Rusf10 (대화) 23:44, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과:삭제/Darrin Sharif 참조용 문서.Rusf10의 지명에 직접 대응하고 이에 반대하는 주장(Linking WP:정치인 등)은 정확히 제재가 회피하고자 했던 드라마다.투표를 해야 하는가, 아니면 투표 없이 행정관이 제재를 가할 수 있는가?레거시pac (대화) 23:58, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 AfD에 참여했기 때문에 여기서 행정 조치를 취할 수 없다.하지만, 이것은 IBAN에 대한 명백한 위반으로 보인다.권한이 없는 관리자가 자세히 살펴볼 수 있는가?컬렌렛328 2018년 4월 2일 00:17 (UTC)에 대해 토론하자[하라
- IBAN이 양방향이지 않는 한, 그것은 불공평하다.가짜야.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→ 00:18, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)】[
- IBAN에는 TBAN 야구 벅스가 매칭되어 있다.그것은 거의 가짜가 아니며 따라 하기 쉽다.Alanson은 AfD에 지정된 페이지에 편집 [20]이 없고 그 페이지에 있어야 할 이유가 없다.러스프10은 그의 제한에 대해 100% 확실하다.만약 그가 TBAN을 과시한다면 나도 러스프10에 푹 빠졌을 것이다.레거시pac (대화) 00:23, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 나는 코멘트를 던졌지만 나는 관리자가 그 점을 강조하기 위해 어떤 조치를 취하는 것에 반대하지 않을 것이다.앨런슨은 러스프10이 단순히 그의 의견에 동의하는 것과는 반대로 지역사회가 IBAN을 배치해야 했다.또한 지난 ANI를 기억하듯이, 그는 자신이 문제의 일부였고 해결책의 일부가 되기 위해 노력해야 한다는 것을 받아들이기 위해 아무것도 하지 않았다.완강한 편집자의 관심을 끌 수 있는 방법은 정말 한 가지뿐이기 때문에, 이제 모든 '분열 블록' 게임을 시작할 때가 된 것 같다.Jbh Talk 00:38, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- IBAN이 양방향이지 않는 한, 그것은 불공평하다.가짜야.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→ 00:18, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)】[
- 나는 AfD에 참여했기 때문에 여기서 행정 조치를 취할 수 없다.하지만, 이것은 IBAN에 대한 명백한 위반으로 보인다.권한이 없는 관리자가 자세히 살펴볼 수 있는가?컬렌렛328 2018년 4월 2일 00:17 (UTC)에 대해 토론하자[하라
- 누군가가 앨런슨을 위해 어떤 변명을 할 수 있든 간에, 그 공동체는 I-ban (앨런)/T-ban (Rus) 콤보에 대해 분명한 합의에 도달했다.러스는 그의 조건에 동의했지만, 앨런은 그가 문제의 일부라는 것을 결코 받아들이지 않았고, 이 노골적인 위반은 그가 처음으로 지역사회를 듣지 않았다는 것을 내게 말해준다.블럭은 명백한 결과물이다.The GracefulSlick (talk) 01:23, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[하라
- 앨런슨이 AFD에 도전하기 전까지 자신의 사업을 추진하던 러스프10을 차단한 것보다 그의 발언을 근거로 한 야구 벅스 for CIR을 차단한 사례가 훨씬 더 강력한 것은 앨런슨이 AFD에 도전하기 위해서였다.레거시pac (대화) 02:19, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- "낚시"가 당신이 묘사하는 방식이라면 OP는 그렇게까지 그들의 선을 긋지 않아도 된다.앨런은 노골적인 위반을 저질렀고, 나는 당신이 그것을 완전히 무시하려는 동기를 의심한다.행정관이 되고자 했던 그 어떤 사람에겐, 이것은 당신이 눈감아줘야 할 일이 아니다.The GracefulSlick (talk) 03:40, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[하라
- 앨런슨이 AFD에 도전하기 전까지 자신의 사업을 추진하던 러스프10을 차단한 것보다 그의 발언을 근거로 한 야구 벅스 for CIR을 차단한 사례가 훨씬 더 강력한 것은 앨런슨이 AFD에 도전하기 위해서였다.레거시pac (대화) 02:19, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 앨런슨에게 그 편집을 정당화할 수 있는지 물어봤다. --사레크OfVulcan (대화) 04:23, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그는 User_talk:앨런슨#상호 작용_ban_with_user:러스f10은 러스f10 AfDs에서의 그의 행위가 IBAN의 주요 이유임에도 불구하고 위반이 없었고, IBAN에 대해 Risf10 AfDs에 대해 언급하는 것을 막는 매우 구체적인 논의가 있었다.분명히 그는 Rusf10 AfDs를 혼자 둘 생각이 없다.그가 핵심을 파악하는데 블록이 필요하거나 러스f10에 의한 모든 AfDs를 포함하도록 IBAN 범위를 명확히 해야 한다.레거시pac (대화) 06:56, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 명백한 주제 위반 금지 및 게임 진행.48시간 차단. --NeilN 09:01, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그는 User_talk:앨런슨#상호 작용_ban_with_user:러스f10은 러스f10 AfDs에서의 그의 행위가 IBAN의 주요 이유임에도 불구하고 위반이 없었고, IBAN에 대해 Risf10 AfDs에 대해 언급하는 것을 막는 매우 구체적인 논의가 있었다.분명히 그는 Rusf10 AfDs를 혼자 둘 생각이 없다.그가 핵심을 파악하는데 블록이 필요하거나 러스f10에 의한 모든 AfDs를 포함하도록 IBAN 범위를 명확히 해야 한다.레거시pac (대화) 06:56, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
지역 참의원들이 새로운 학교인가?앨런슨은 WP를 무시했다.학교의 NOTDIR, 나는 지역 의회 의원들에게도 같은 일이 일어나지 않기를 진심으로 바란다. 왜냐하면 그것은 오해를 불러일으키는 생생함의 오류로 인한 잠재적 BLP 악몽이 될 것이기 때문이다. 그리고 대부분의 의원들도 논쟁의 순간에서 벗어나게 되는 소량의 커버리지로 인한 것이다.Guy (Help!) 09:31, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
- 앨런슨이 NJ 학교 기사와 지역구에서 합의를 무시하고 감독관을 추가해야 한다고 거듭 주장한 것은 많은 갈등을 초래했다.지금까지 그는 뉴저지 학교 기사에서 벗어나 책임감 있는 편집자들을 괴롭히고 괴롭히고 위키리더들을 쫓아낼 수 있었다.그는 좋은 일을 많이 하지만, 이런 행동을 허용하는데 드는 비용이 있는데, 많은 사람들이 여기에 호응해 준 덕분이다.다시 말하지만, 그는 많은 좋은 일을 하지만, 그의 냉철한 소유권 때문에 뉴저지 기사들이 백과사전의 다른 분야와 맞지 않게 되었다.바라건대 그는 한계가 있고, 다른 사람들과 협력하는 힘이 있다는 것을 알게 될 것이다.고마워, 계속 수고해!자코나 (토크) 14:20, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
NPP 권한의 부적절한 제거
| 재량권이라기보다는 해지가 욕설이었다는 데 공감대가 형성되는 것은 없다.취소를 호소하려면 쿠드풍과 상의하거나 WP에서 재요청하십시오.PERM. swarm 01:56, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕. 나는 NPP를 몇 년 동안 해왔어. 광범위한 빈도가 아니라, 실생활로 인해 위키피디아에 매일 접속할 수 없게 되었거든.쿠드풍에 의해 나의 NPP 권리는 그가 말한 부적절한 G11 태그의 제거에 대해 그의 친구 중 한 명이 불평한 후 제거되었다.그리고 Adoil Howns#Note.커드풍은 편집자가 X-특정 프레임에서 X-숫자 편집에 실패하지만 그러한 규칙이 존재하지 않을 경우 NPP 편집자를 위한 "사용 또는 분실" 규칙이 있다고 주장하고 있다.NPP에 대한 그러한 "사용 또는 분실" 규칙은 존재하지 않으며, G11 태그를 부적절하게 배치했다는 NPP 관리자가 기록되어 있다는 점에서, 나는 NPP 권리를 복원해 주면 고맙겠다.감사합니다.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 09:25, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- ADDs의 대화 페이지 보관 - 역사적 목적을 위해 Kudfungs note 등은 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:And_Adoil_Descended&diff=833765251&oldid=833761225#Note, –Davey2010Talk 17:50, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)
- 쿠드풍이 잘못했는지는 확실하지 않다.얼핏 보기보다 더 많은 관여가 있을 수 있다.--Dlohcierkim (대화) 09:41, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- NPP 검토자가 X-특정 시간 프레임에서 X-숫자의 편집을 수행해야 한다고 명시하고 있는 위키백과 규칙에 대한 링크를 제공하십시오.그건 아주 간단한 요구야.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 09:43, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 분명한 G11 기사에서 G11 태그를 제거하는 데 더 많은 관심을 기울이십시오.내 생각에, 너의 판단력이 부족할 수도 있어.토니 쪽지를 잘못 읽으셨군요. 삭제된 이후 여기에 언급된 것도요. --Dlohcierkim (대화) 09:59, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- <ec>그리고 관련 AfD에서 당신의 참여와 주장이 있다.내가 말했던 것처럼.네가 잃어버린 것을 복구하기 전에 더 살펴볼 것이 있다.--Dlohcierkim (토크) 10:06, 2018년 4월 2일 ()[응답
- NPP 검토자가 X-특정 시간 프레임에서 X-숫자의 편집을 수행해야 한다고 명시하고 있는 위키백과 규칙에 대한 링크를 제공하십시오.그건 아주 간단한 요구야.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 09:43, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- @Adoil Helps:Replying to this version, before AAD refactored their original message유감이지만 그건 상관없는 일이야.백과사전을 돕기 위해 아무리 선진화돼도 허가가 부여된다.사용하지 않으면 필요 없고, 자신의 능력을 문제 삼기 위해 자신의 능력을 호출하는 편집을 할 때는 취소될 것으로 예상해야 한다.유감스럽지만, 당신의 경우는 TB가 G11 태그의 제거에 동의한다고 말하지만, 사실 그는 정확히 "나는 G11을 가질 것이다"라고 말했다. 즉, 그는 태그당 페이지를 삭제했을 것이다.다른 행동적 요소들을 결합해서, 편집자들이 경멸적으로 "친구"라고 비난하고, 철자를 비판하고, 철자를 미숙하다고 부르고, 그리고 그들이 "복수를 위해 외출했다"고 비난한다.—쿠드풍은 당신의 깃발을 취소하는 데 있어서 공동체 규범에 잘 들어맞았다고 생각한다.나는 당신이 만약 어떤 사람이 그러한 특정한 자질들을 새로운 페이지 검토에 가져오고 있다면, 백과사전은 아마도 그렇게 하지 않는 것이 더 나을 것이라는 일반적인 의견을 발견할 것이라고 생각한다.IMHO, 당연하지.—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 10:01, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)[
- 정말, 내가 NPP를 몇 년 동안 문제없이 한 후에 비틀거리는 편집 후에 내 깃발을 떼는 것은?그리고, 두 번째로, NPP 검토자가 X-특정 시간 틀에서 X-숫자의 편집을 수행해야 한다고 명기하는 위키백과 규칙에 대한 링크를 제공하십시오.그것은 무관하지 않다.정책과 지침이 부담스러운 사이트의 경우, 편집자가 NPP 업무를 수행할 수 있도록 허용되고 그렇지 않은 특정 규칙이 분명히 있어야 한다.만약 그런 규칙이 없다면, 이 사이트는 변덕스러운 행동에 의해 지배되고 있는 것이 분명하다.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 10시 52분, 2018년 4월 2일 ()[응답
- 아니, 그렇지 않아; 그것은 사람들이 사회의 암묵적인 감독하에 대담한 편집을 하는 것에 의해 지배된다.쿠드풍은 당신의 깃발을 제거하는데 대담했고, 공동체의 합의는 그가 그렇게 하는데 있어서 피질적이었는지 의심하게 될 것이다.행복한 편집!—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 10:59, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)[
- 정말, 내가 NPP를 몇 년 동안 문제없이 한 후에 비틀거리는 편집 후에 내 깃발을 떼는 것은?그리고, 두 번째로, NPP 검토자가 X-특정 시간 틀에서 X-숫자의 편집을 수행해야 한다고 명기하는 위키백과 규칙에 대한 링크를 제공하십시오.그것은 무관하지 않다.정책과 지침이 부담스러운 사이트의 경우, 편집자가 NPP 업무를 수행할 수 있도록 허용되고 그렇지 않은 특정 규칙이 분명히 있어야 한다.만약 그런 규칙이 없다면, 이 사이트는 변덕스러운 행동에 의해 지배되고 있는 것이 분명하다.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 10시 52분, 2018년 4월 2일 ()[응답
- 새 페이지 순찰과 관련하여, 나는 이 페이지를 새 페이지 검토자를 위해 찾았다.
- 해지요령
- 사용자 권리는 위의 행동 기준 위반 및 기타 위법행위에 대해 취소할 수 있다.또한, 관리자가 다음 상황 중 어느 하나에 해당하는 경우 절차나 사전 통지 없이 언제든지 취소할 수 있다.
- 편집자는 먼저 합의점을 결정하지 않고 분명히 논란의 여지가 있는 리뷰를 수행하는 패턴을 보여 왔다.
- 편집자는 페이지를 검토할 때 충분한 주의를 기울이지 않아 새로운 사용자가 불쾌하거나 낙담하는 패턴을 보여 왔다.
- 편집자는 논쟁에서 우위를 점하기 위해 허가를 받아왔다.
- 편집자는 노골적인 반달리즘(페이지 리뷰어 반달리즘에 국한되지 않음)을 행했다.
- 편집자는 계정의 무단 사용을 눈치채거나 계정 보안 관행을 소홀히 한 후 관리자에게 보고하지 않았다.
- 편집자가 12개월 이상 활동을 하지 않고 있다.
- 편집자는 검토의 대가로 지불을 수락하거나 요청하였다.
- 또한 편집자의 자가 요청 시 즉시 권리를 제거할 수 있다.취소에 대한 항소는 1차적으로 취소 관리자에게 이루어져야 하며, 실패하면 ANI가 아닌 관리자 게시판에서 추가로 항소를 할 수 있다.
솔직히, 관리 도구 이외의 것에 대해 "사용하거나 느슨하게 하는" 기준에 대해서는 처음 들어보는 것이어서, 그런 의무사항이 있을 정도로 의심스럽다.위키백과에서 언급된 것은 아무것도 없다.현장에서 사용자 권한을 제안하는 사용자 접근 단계는 그러한 제한을 가지고 있으며, 편집자가 일방적으로 권한을 해제하고 제거하기 전에 추가적으로 부여된 사용자 권한을 사용할 수 있는 시간 제한이 있다는 증거를 제시할 수 없는 한, 복원에 대해 커뮤니티의 동의를 얻을 수 있을 것이다.톰스타81 (토크) 12:13, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 이 두뇌 훈련에서 또 한 가지 작은 생각이 떠올랐다.전형적으로 어떤 일을 할 수 없다고 가장 큰 소리로 불평하는 사람들은 가장 해를 끼치는 사람들이기 때문에, 그것을 사용하기 위한 명확한 합의가 없거나 그 지위를 잃는다 하더라도, 공동체가 그들이 처리할 때 참아야 할 슬픔이 가치가 없다고 생각한다면, 무장 해제와 몰수 특권에 대한 합의는 여전히 있을 것이다.특권을 가진 사람과 교제하다생각할 수 있는 음식.톰스타81 (토크) 12:19, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 이것을 한 번 더 시도해보자, 그리고 주제를 바꾸려는 나의 성격이나 허망한 시도에 대해 빈정거리지 말고 나의 요청에 대한 구체적인 대답을 얻도록 하자: NPP 검토자들이 X-특정 시간 틀에서 편집의 X-량을 반드시 해야 한다고 분명히 명시되어 있는 구체적인 위키백과 규칙으로 연결되는 링크를 제공하라.만약 그러한 규칙이 존재하지 않는다면, 지난 12개월 동안 내가 생산한 편집 수량에 근거한 나의 NPP 검토자 상태의 해제는 부적절했다 - 그것은 WP의 경우가 아니다:볼드(BOLD)는, 그러나 관리자가 계속하면서 자신만의 규칙을 만드는 예로서, 이것은 집단 백과사전 출판 노력에서 용인할 수 있는 것이 아니다.감사합니다.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 12:44, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 나의 새로운 페이지 순찰 이력에 대해서는, 몇 년 동안 사건없이 이것을 해오고 있다. [21]Adoil Downs (대화) 12:47, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 많은 재정렬 페이지들이 있어서 관련된 TW CSD 로그나 데트티온 태그 로그 없이 약간의 우려를 불러 일으킨다.페이지 큐레이션 도구를 사용하지 마십시오.NPP는 단순히 페이지를 순찰하는 것이 아니라, 그 페이지가 위키피디아의 최소 포함 기준을 충족하도록 보장하고 있다.나는 당신이 페이지를 '등록'할 때 그것이 당신이 하고 있는 것이라는 증거를 보지 못한다.아마도 당신은 모든 것을 수동으로 하고 있지만, 그것은 당신의 순찰 수행을 검토하는 것이 매우 어렵다는 것을 의미한다.NPP를 계속할 수 있는 경우 제공된 도구를 사용하거나 최소한 CSD 로깅을 활성화하여 사용자의 작업을 보다 쉽게 검토할 수 있도록 하십시오.분명히 하는 걸 깜빡했네 마지막으로 편집한 Jbh Talk 14:23, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)에 기반한 +검토자 제거를 지지한다: 14:26, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)[
- 관리자들은 인간이고 실수를 할 수 있다.아도일(너무 공손하지 않음)이 오타를 지적한 것처럼, 고드리치의 윙드 블레이드(Winged Blade of Godric)는 내가 범한 오류를 지적했었다.내가 고쳤다.쿠드풍 กุผผ ( ((대화) 13:04, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 쿠드풍은 NPP 검토자가 X-양 편집 내용을 X-양 특정 기간 내에 작성하지 않는 한 NPP 검토자의 권한을 취소할 수 있음을 구체적으로 명시한 위키백과 규칙에 대한 링크를 제공하십시오.NPP 검토의 이 기능과 관련된 "사용 또는 분실" 규칙이 없는 경우, 한 번의 편집 후 부적절하게(그리고 "너무 정중하게") 취소한 권한을 복원하십시오.관리자들은 "인간적이고 실수할 수 있다"고 할 수도 있지만, 그것이 여러분이 무언가를 좋아하지 않기 때문에 규칙을 만드는 핑계는 될 수 없다.고마워. 2018년 4월 2일 13시 58분(UTC)[
- 사용자:그리고 Adoil Howns는 더 이상 듣지 않는다; 같은 만트라를 반복한다 =/= 토론을 반복한다. 그리고 당신은 이제 여러 편집자들로부터 무수한 문제들이 무엇인지 여러 번 들었다. 그러나 당신은 그것들을 다루지 않은 모든 답변에서.—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 14:01, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)[
- 사용자:일련 번호 54129는 더 이상 듣지 않으며, NPP 검토와 관련된 "사용하거나 분실" 규칙과의 링크를 만들 수도 없었다.만약 누군가가 혼돈이 정책을 대신하고 있다고 불평한다면, 당신은 단지 당신만의 규칙을 만들고 나서 잘난 체 할 수 없다.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 14:05, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집) (케이빗:이 사건의 구체적 내용에 대해서는 검토하지 않았다.)그리고 아도일 강림:충고 한 가지 - 당신이 현재 이 토론에서 하고 있는 길, 반복적인 요구, 위키리듬링, 블러지오닝에 가까운 행동, 다른 편집자의 발언을 조롱하는 것 등은 당신에게 좋은 결과로 끝날 수 있는 것이 아니다.그것은 당신이 NPP 권리를 되찾는 데 도움이 되지 않을 것이며, 당신이 강제적인 타임아웃(즉, 블록)이 필요하다고 행정관에게 확신시킬 가능성이 훨씬 높다.심호흡을 하고, 이 문제를 그냥 내버려두고, 백과사전을 위해 다른 건설적인 일을 하는 것을 제안하고 싶다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 14:29, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 사용자:일련 번호 54129는 더 이상 듣지 않으며, NPP 검토와 관련된 "사용하거나 분실" 규칙과의 링크를 만들 수도 없었다.만약 누군가가 혼돈이 정책을 대신하고 있다고 불평한다면, 당신은 단지 당신만의 규칙을 만들고 나서 잘난 체 할 수 없다.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 14:05, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 잘못 걸려온 전화 때문에 NPR 깃발을 제거하셨는데, 어차피 사용하지 않는다는 지적이 있어(정확하게, 마지막 50쪽은...)20167년 1월)은 단지 세부사항일 뿐이다.—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 14:26, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)[
- 이는 OP, IMO의 더 큰 문제로 치닫고 있는 것으로 보인다. 정책의 첫 단계인 쿠드풍(내가 틀렸다면 디프스 부탁해)과 이 문제를 논의하려는 어떠한 시도도 보이지 않는다.대신에, 돌아다닐 수 있는 많은 유인원과 IDHT가 있다.나는 NPP 깃발을 가지고 있고, 나는 그것을 많이 사용하지 않으며, 내가 그것을 더 사용하지 않으면 내가 그것을 잃을 것이라는 것을 아무도 표시하지 않았다.분명히, 문제는 당신이 그것을 얼마나 많이 사용했느냐가 아니라 어떻게 사용했느냐 하는 것이다.작전국에서는 철도를 계속하기보다는 여기서 말한 것을 내면화해서 앞으로 나아가는 것이 나을 것이다.IDegon 출신 John (토크) 14:38, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 분명히, 내 시간은 낭비되고 있어.아무도 내가 도움을 요청한 근거인 NPP 권리와 관련하여 명확하게 명시된 "사용하거나 잃어버리는" 규칙과의 연결을 만들 수 없다.그리고, 꽤 솔직히 말해서, 한 번의 편집에 근거하여 국기를 제거하는 것은 변덕스럽고 비열했으며, 확립된 NPP 규칙과는 거리가 멀었다.나는 이 웹사이트가 명확한 규칙과 정책에 의해 운영된다는 인상을 받았다.내 잘못이야.그리고 아도일 다운스 (토크) 14:45, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 이는 OP, IMO의 더 큰 문제로 치닫고 있는 것으로 보인다. 정책의 첫 단계인 쿠드풍(내가 틀렸다면 디프스 부탁해)과 이 문제를 논의하려는 어떠한 시도도 보이지 않는다.대신에, 돌아다닐 수 있는 많은 유인원과 IDHT가 있다.나는 NPP 깃발을 가지고 있고, 나는 그것을 많이 사용하지 않으며, 내가 그것을 더 사용하지 않으면 내가 그것을 잃을 것이라는 것을 아무도 표시하지 않았다.분명히, 문제는 당신이 그것을 얼마나 많이 사용했느냐가 아니라 어떻게 사용했느냐 하는 것이다.작전국에서는 철도를 계속하기보다는 여기서 말한 것을 내면화해서 앞으로 나아가는 것이 나을 것이다.IDegon 출신 John (토크) 14:38, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- @SerialNumber54129, 2017년 1월, 그러니까?개인적으로 나는 권리철폐에 전적으로 반대한다, 위에서 인용한 철거 사유와 맞지 않는다.아무도 공구의 잘못된 사용을 지적하지 않았는데, 왜 공구를 제거했는가?사용자가 가끔만 권리를 사용한다고 해도, 작은 도움 하나하나가 도움이 된다(그리고 거의 사용하지 않는 사용자가 당신의 통계를 망친다고 말하는 것은 단지...뭐?).권리는 기본적으로 한 가지 행동(CSD G11 태그 제거)에 기초하여 제거되었는데, 이는 어쨌든 논쟁의 여지가 있는 것이었다(AfD가 유지 표를 얻었다는 점을 감안할 때).그 기사를 삭제하기를 간절히 원하는 사람들(그리고 그것이 옳은 결정인지 아닌지, 나는 그 기사를 면밀히 검토하지 않았다)에 이어, 모든 종류의 이유("절대 옳은 결정을 한 적이 없다", "권리를 사용한 적이 없다...좋아, 지난 2년 동안 50번밖에 안 썼는데...오 그래, 작년엔"기다려라...그것도 미사여구가 아닌가?) 하지만 초기 제거는 매우 의심스러운 일이고, 실제로 아무도 사용자가 권리를 잘못 사용했다는 것을 지적하지 않았다는 점을 고려하면(순찰대 로그에 있는 몇몇 레드링크를 근거로 마구 추측하는 것과는 별개로) 나는 그들이 권리를 지키지 않는 것에 대한 어떤 정당성도 정말 이해할 수 없다.그렇기는 하지만 사용자가 이 문제를 제기하는 방식이 이상과는 거리가 멀다는 데 다소 동의한다 - 킹핀13 (토크) 14:50, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 고마워; 잘 눈에 띄었고, 내가 바꿨어.아니, 그 단어의 어떤 정의로도, 전혀 미사여구가 아니다.건배, —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 15:04, 2018년 4월 2일(UTC)[
- @SerialNumber54129, 2017년 1월, 그러니까?개인적으로 나는 권리철폐에 전적으로 반대한다, 위에서 인용한 철거 사유와 맞지 않는다.아무도 공구의 잘못된 사용을 지적하지 않았는데, 왜 공구를 제거했는가?사용자가 가끔만 권리를 사용한다고 해도, 작은 도움 하나하나가 도움이 된다(그리고 거의 사용하지 않는 사용자가 당신의 통계를 망친다고 말하는 것은 단지...뭐?).권리는 기본적으로 한 가지 행동(CSD G11 태그 제거)에 기초하여 제거되었는데, 이는 어쨌든 논쟁의 여지가 있는 것이었다(AfD가 유지 표를 얻었다는 점을 감안할 때).그 기사를 삭제하기를 간절히 원하는 사람들(그리고 그것이 옳은 결정인지 아닌지, 나는 그 기사를 면밀히 검토하지 않았다)에 이어, 모든 종류의 이유("절대 옳은 결정을 한 적이 없다", "권리를 사용한 적이 없다...좋아, 지난 2년 동안 50번밖에 안 썼는데...오 그래, 작년엔"기다려라...그것도 미사여구가 아닌가?) 하지만 초기 제거는 매우 의심스러운 일이고, 실제로 아무도 사용자가 권리를 잘못 사용했다는 것을 지적하지 않았다는 점을 고려하면(순찰대 로그에 있는 몇몇 레드링크를 근거로 마구 추측하는 것과는 별개로) 나는 그들이 권리를 지키지 않는 것에 대한 어떤 정당성도 정말 이해할 수 없다.그렇기는 하지만 사용자가 이 문제를 제기하는 방식이 이상과는 거리가 멀다는 데 다소 동의한다 - 킹핀13 (토크) 14:50, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
구체적인 사건은 차치하고라도, 이것에 대해 "참조에는 문제가 없다"는 의견을 가진 사용자가 NPR을 갖는 것은 문제가 있다고 생각한다.쿠드풍이 잘한 것 같아. --보나데아 기부 토크 15:06, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 극단적인 상황이 아닌 한 나는 사용자 권리의 일방적 제거에 열광한 적이 없지만, 이는 분명히 관리자의 재량에 달려 있다. 관련 취소 기준에 대해서는 WP:NPR #취소 지침위에서 제공된 차이점을 감안할 때, 이것은 주로 비활동적인 사용자가 매우 나쁜 전화를 한 경우로서, 다른 숙련된 편집자(관리자 포함)의 의견에도 불구하고 계속해서 그들이 옳다고 주장하고 있다.
이것은 페이지 품질관리
에 대한지식을 명확하게 보여주는
편집자가 아니다. 따라서 나는 NPR 플래그 제거를 지지한다.이 실은 닫아야 한다.알렉스 시 (토크) 17:07, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[ - 쿠드풍은 정곡을 찔렀고, 여기서 다시 말하겠다: "사용할 생각이 없다면 사용자의 권리를 갖는 것이 뭐가 그렇게 중요한가? "[22] - WP:NPR은 명확하게 기술하고 있으며, "주공간 기사를 적어도 500개 이상 논란의 여지가 없는 편집을 했다"고 인용한다. ....그리고 아도일 다운스 당신은 2012년 이후로 100번의 편집도 하지 않았고 위에서 언급했듯이 당신은 NPR 도구를 사용하지도 않는다. 그래서 백만장자 달러 의 질문은 도대체 왜 당신이 사용하지 않는 것에 대해 이 모든 소란을 피우는가? ....이다.
- 또한 쿠드풍은 적어도 나에게 최고의 판단을 내리는 공정하고 확고한 편집자임을 덧붙이겠다. 물론 나는 그들이 한 모든 전화에 동의하지 않지만 그들이 내린 판단과 행동의 99%에 동의했다고 말할 것이다. 그리고 다시 한 번 나는 여기서 그들의 판단과 행동에 동의한다.만약 당신이 그 빌어먹을 권리를 사용하지 않는다면 왜 그것이 취소되는 것에 신경을 쓰는가?
- 성장하라, 사용자 권리의 취소를 받아들이고 넘어가라, 이 모든 드라마들은 특히 너무 사소한 것에 대해 끝났을 때 유치할 뿐이다.–Davey2010Talk 17:23, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
아도일이 정리한 새로운 기사의 예는 [23]을 참조한다.그가 이 기사를 순찰하고 있다면 많은 변화가 필요하거나 최소한 태그가 붙을 필요가 있다.나는 권리 제거에 동의한다.반쪽짜리 물건은 필요 없어.네이처리움 (토크) 17:25, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 무슨 가치가 있건 간에, 오늘 그들이 한 일을 보면, 조반 시미치는 이미 srwiki에 존재하고, 두 사람의 차이는 본문에 링크된 명백히 저작권이 있는 워터마크가 없는 하원에 대한 무허가 이미지를 가지고 있는 것은 말할 것도 없고, 기껏해야 몇 단어의 수준에 있는 것 같다.그래서 그것은 단순히 영어가 아닌 것으로 꼬리표를 붙이는 것이 아니라 깨끗이 치워졌다.앤서니 보스를 보고 있어, 휴 소년.만약 그것이 G11이 아니라면, 그것은 냉장고에 있는 단어 자석을 재배치하는 것과 같이, 당신은 중립성에 접근하는 무언가를 생각해 낼 수 있을 정도로 순수한 내용물을 충분히 가지고 있기 때문이다.
앤소니는 현재의 모든 사업을 그대로 두고, 매니저로서 자신의 지평이 어디에 있는지 발견하기로 과감한 결정을 내렸었다.
앤서니에게 잘됐다.그에게 효과가 있기를 바라지만, 여전히 외부 링크조차 없이 완전히 공급되지 않았고, G11에 대한 당신의 해석에 관대하더라도 AfD로 가기 전에 BLPPROD로 갔어야 했다.GMGtalk 17:29, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- 질문을 제기하는 당사자가 여전히 질문을 받지 못한 경우, 이 권한의 제거를 지원하는 정책은 WP이다.NOTBUREAUCRACY.이용자 권리 부여에 관한 정책이나 가이드라인의 어떤 정밀한 표현보다 중요한 원칙은, 필요한 역량이 없다는 것을 보여준 그 누구도 그러한 권리를 유지하거나 부여해서는 안 된다는 것이다.나는 과거에 적어도 한 번은 쿠드풍과 심각한 의견 불일치를 본 적이 있지만, 이 경우 그는 분명히 이 백과사전을 만드는 데 있어서 최선의 이익을 위해 올바르게 행동하고 있다.86.17.222.157 (대화) 19:30, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
- Query And Adoil Hispeds, 아래 위키백과에서 논의 중인 AfD에 참여하셨습니까?관리자_noticeboard/Incidents#Possible_issues_at_AfD?그렇다면 자신의 추리에 대해 토론해 주시겠습니까?--Dlohcierkim (대화) 07:41, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 트롤링이나 괴롭힘의 냄새가 나지만, 어떤 경우든 다소 불쾌하고, ADD의 궁극적인 탈취에 좋은 징조는 아니다.—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 09:14, 2018년 4월 3일(UTC)[
나는 이 토론을 우연히 발견했고, 비록 내가 기사나 NPP 문제에 관여하지 않았음에도 불구하고, 그것을 약간 따라 했다.위에서 논의한 내용을 보면, 나는 앤도일 디도일 디도일 디도일 디도스(Adoil Downs)가 그의 NPP 권리를 잃어야 하는지에 대한 의견을 발전시키기 위해 모든 것을 면밀히 검토할 인내심이 없다.하지만, 나는 그가 이미 AfD에 있었던 기사에서 스피디 삭제 태그를 삭제한 것이 옳다고 생각한다.원래 지명자는 그것이 G11에 적합하다고 생각하지 않는다고 말했다.그 기사는 BLP나 카피비오가 아니었기 때문에, AfD가 진행되는 동안 계속 깨어있도록 하는 데 별로 해가 되지 않는다. AfD 기간 동안, 위에 커다란 현수막이 걸려 있어서 그 기사가 신뢰할 수 없을 수도 있다는 것을 분명히 한다.이 과정을 단락시키는 것은 2, 3일 더 형편없는 기사가 존재할 수 있게 하는 것보다 더 큰 해악을 끼치고 있으며, AAD가 G11을 제거하는 것이 옳았다.다시 말하지만, 나는 그의 NPP 권리를 없애는 것이 옳은 결정인지 아닌지에 대해 의견이 없다.아리우 (대화) 15:36, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
- 사실, 그것은 그 과정을 단락시키는 것이 아니다.그것은 분명히 적절한 G11 태그 지정이다.AFD는 때때로 "속한 삭제"처럼 근접하기도 한다.--Dlohcierkim (talk) 15:51, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 더 부진한 생각.그들이 그 기사를 삭제했을 때 단락이 일어났다.관리자가 G11의 수용 여부를 결정할 수 있도록 허용하는 것이 더 좋았을 것이고, 덜 파괴적이었다.내가 WP 전에 그것을 보았더라면:COI keep (기사에 참여한 사람들은 삭제에 동의하지 않는 경우가 많다) G11로 삭제했을 것이다.--Dlohcierkim (대화) 16:01, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
빌리 그레이엄의 죽음이 '대단한 손실'이었는지에 대한 입장을 취하는 것.
| 놀랍게도, 토크 페이지에서의 토론은 그 논쟁을 꽤 많이 해결했다.알아, 놀랐잖아.가이 (도움말!) 22:26, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
원칙적으로 위키백과:위키프로젝트 기독교는 모든 위키피디아인들을 위한 것이다.하지만, 그들은 빌리 그레이엄의 죽음이 "심각한 손실"이었다고 선언하는 뉴스레터를 발행할 계획이다.모든 사람이 그것에 반드시 동의하지는 않을 것이다.이것을 유지하는 것은 분명히 다원적 공동체 프로젝트를 갖는 것에 최선의 이익이 아니다.그래, 어떻게 생각해?우리 크리스천 위키프로젝트의 의사소통을 조사해 볼까?un [24]
@리오넬트: 누가 괜찮다고 주장하는가.
jps (대화) 00:54, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 개인적으로 빌리 그레이엄은 백악관에 위험한 영향을 미쳤고 전반적으로 치명적 영향을 미쳤다고 생각한다.그는 반유대주의자였고 동성애 반대론자였다.하지만 다른 기독교인들에게 그리울 수 있는 기독교인이 될 수도 있다고 생각한다.위키피디아 주제가 모든 견해를 제시할 것인가?NPOV가 지시하는 것 같아 - 아니, 01:01, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 그가 대부분의 기독교인들에게 그리울 것이라고는 생각하지 않는다. 그들의 대다수는 가톨릭이거나 동방 정교회 또는 주요 개신교인이다. 그래서 그들에게 그는 이단자이거나 광신자였다.Tgeorgescu (대화) 01:05, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 물론 빌리 그레이엄은 그가 가톨릭 신자였기 때문에 JFK가 대통령이 되는 것을 막으려고 노력했지만, 그의 "목회자" 그레이엄은 가톨릭 신자들이 "기독교"가 되는 것을 돕는데 전념했다. - 넌허 01:14, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그가 대부분의 기독교인들에게 그리울 것이라고는 생각하지 않는다. 그들의 대다수는 가톨릭이거나 동방 정교회 또는 주요 개신교인이다. 그래서 그들에게 그는 이단자이거나 광신자였다.Tgeorgescu (대화) 01:05, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 현 단계에서 이것은 토크 페이지 토론의 문제라는 라이오넬의 말에 동의하며, Majora의 마무리를 지지한다.이니스프리987 (대화) 01:27, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- @ජස and과 라이오넬트: 분쟁 중인 내용의 토크 페이지에서 이 분쟁을 해결하십시오.또는 위키피디아의 뉴스레터/아웃리치 매스메시지 내용과 관련된 정책(또는 정책 부재)에 대한 일반적인 우려를 처리하기 위한 의견수렴/마을 펌프 프로세스가 있다.ANI는 일반적으로 콘텐츠 분쟁이 아닌 관리자의 주의가 필요한 비교적 긴급한 문제에 대한 것이다. --slakr\ talk / 01:34, 2018년 4월 4일(UTC)[
- 다른 사용자가 이 뉴스레터를 가능한 한 빨리 내보내려고 할 때, 어떻게 진행하는 것이 좋을까?이렇게 시시각각 변하는 문제에 이렇게 빨리 주의를 환기시킬 수 있는 장소가 또 있을까?꼭 닫아야 한다면 닫아두지만, 솔직히 어디를 돌려야 할지 모르겠어. jps (대화) 01:36, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- @ජසස: 내가 알기로는 옵트인 뉴스레터라서, 그것을 받을 사람들은 대부분 동료 구독자들로부터 약간의 종교적 편향으로 완전히 경험이 없는 것은 아니므로, 당장 해결되어야 할 비상사태로 나를 치지는 않는다.내가 틀릴 수도 있다.만약 이것이 전체 사용자층에 보내진 요청되지 않은 대량 메시지였다면 더 걱정스럽겠지만, 가능하다면 메시지를 보내기 전에 사람들이 한숨 돌리고 콘텐츠 분쟁 문제를 해결하는 것을 추천하고 싶다.위키피디아는 공식적인 조직이 아니며 위키피디아/위키메디아의 목소리로 말하거나 지역사회에 일방적으로 지시하지 않는다.주요 관리자 수준의 관심사는 위키피디아와의 만남에서 발생할 수 있다.Mass_message_senders#Guidance_use 및 위키백과:여론 조사, 그러나 NPOV는 실제로 대화 페이지 토론이나 대량 메시지가 필요한 것은 아니지만, 내 생각에, Right™는 관련자들이 적어도 일부 사람들이 내용에 동의하지 않고 먼저 합의를 얻는 것이 이상적으로 나쁜 감정을 피하고 가능한 최선의 행동 방침임을 알아보는 것이다.피할 수 있는 논쟁은 피할 수 있지만, 선택은 정말로 장기적으로는 자신의 단기 행동이 어떻게 인식되기를 원하는가 하는 것이다. --slakr\ talk / 01:57, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 음, 당신이 위키프로젝트 기독교를 정확히 한 번 편집한 것 같은데, 이 토론이 시작된 후에 일어난 일이지요.그래서 저의 가장 중요한 질문은 위키프로젝트에서 여러분과 전혀 무관하다는 것을 증명하기 위해 우리가 이 실마리를 여는 것에 대해 부메랑 토론을 해야 하는지 입니다.GMGtalk 01:42, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 슬래커처럼 관리자들이 이에 어떻게 대응할 수 있을지 모르겠다.뉴스레터가 계속되어야 하는지 아니면 "셧다운"되어야 하는지는 관리자가 그냥 fiat에 의해 결정할 수 있는 것이 아니다 – 위키백과의 대화에서 의견 일치를 얻는다:대신 위키프로젝트 기독교.마찬가지로, 이 토크 페이지는 앞으로 나아가고 있는 뉴스레터의 스타일/내용/표시에 대해 토론하는 데도 사용될 수 있다.이에 따라 위키프로젝트 토크 페이지에서 논의를 계속하기 위한 권고와 함께 이 문제를 종결할 것을 제안하고자 한다.Mz7 (대화) 01:43, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
뉴스레터야.위키백과 기사가 아니에요.….뉴스. 편지.여긴 심지어 여기엔 전혀 맞지 않아.기사 개선에 시간을 보내세요. --Tarage (대화) 01:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
이것을 다시 열어서 미안하지만, 위의 몇몇 해설자들과는 달리 나는 jps의 불평이 장점이 있다는 것을 알게 되었다.또한, 나는 여기서 합법적인 콘텐츠 논의가 이루어져야 한다고 생각하지 않는다; 그것은 정책을 시행하는 직접적인 문제다.이를 위해 나는 뉴스레터 초안에서 불쾌감을 주는 비트를 제거했고, 필요하다면 관리 도구를 사용할 수 있도록 만반의 준비를 하고 있다.
XY가 논란이 되고 있는 정치·종교계 인사인 'XY의 죽음은 큰 손실'은 논쟁의 여지가 있는 정치적 의견표명이다.위키프로젝트 뉴스레터는 사용자 대화 페이지에 메시지를 대량으로 게시하는 수단이다.우리는 논쟁적인 이념적 메시지를 홍보하기 위해 사용자들의 대화 페이지에 대량으로 게시물을 사용하지 않는다.개별 사용자가 대량 복사를 통해 수행하든, 프로젝트 뉴스레터의 차량을 통해 수행하든 중요하지 않다.그 의견이 전체 위키백과 주제의 탓인지 아니면 개별 작가의 바이라인 탓인지는 중요하지 않다.그 메시지가 실제로 위키피디아 피험자의 멤버십에 대한 의견과 일치하는지 아니면 의도된 다수의 수신자의 의견과 일치하는지 여부는 중요하지 않다.백과사전을 쓰겠다는 우리의 공통된 목표와 무관한 정치적 의견의 메시지는 그야말로 금지 기간이다.Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:45, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 시몬. 내가 장례식에 가거나 깨울 때 찬미자가 "X는 좋은 사람이었다"고 말하고, 그 남자가 서자였다는 것을 나는 충분히 알고, 나는 벌떡 일어나 X가 내 주머니 시계를 어떻게 훔쳤는지 떠들어대지도 않고 그저 조용히 앉아 평정을 유지한다.그러한 진술은 친형적인 사회적 예절이지 죽은 사람의 인격을 심층적으로 분석하는 것이 아니다.빌리 그레이엄에 대한 진술도 같은 맥락에서 볼 수 있는데, 사실 소란을 피울 만한 가치가 없다.나는 그를 별로 좋아하지 않았지만 그도 악마의 화신은 아니었다.그는, 아니 오히려 공동종교주의자들의 자신에 대한 진술은, 그야말로 아지다의 가치가 없다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 18:46, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 다른 편집자들의 의견을 존중하지 않는 것뿐만 아니라 자신의 개입된 행동을 시행하기 위해 관리 도구를 사용하겠다는 위협도 이 상황을 반갑지 않게 확대시키는 것이다.르프리카바크 (대화) 15:43, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 추가 참고 사항:나는 Fut을 되돌아왔다.관류 제거.토론 없이 다른 모든 사람에게 행정관의 뜻을 강요하려는 그런 일방적인 시도는 용납될 수 없다.르프리카바크 (대화) 17:36, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 다시 제거됨.나는 여전히 이것을 콘텐츠 분쟁이 아닌 정책을 집행하는 직설적인 행정 문제로 여기기 때문에 페이지를 보호해야 한다면 '부적절'에 대해 아무런 거리낌도 느끼지 않을 것이다.Fut.Perf.18:51, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이제 3RR을 위반하셨으니, 누군가 당신에게 책임을 물을 용의가 있는지 알아보도록 합시다.르프리카바크 (대화) 19:34, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Lepricavark:
위반 없음 – 3반전 규칙을 적용하려면 24시간 내에 4회 이상 되돌려야 하며, 제공한 링크는 이러한 기준을 충족하지 못한다.이안.thomson (대화) 19:37, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ - 나는 어떤 링크도 제공한 기억이 없지만, 그 정책에 대해서는 정정할 수 있다.르프리카바크 (대화) 19:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- EW 알림판 템플릿을 사용한 것뿐이에요이안.thomson (대화) 19:47, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 어떤 링크도 제공한 기억이 없지만, 그 정책에 대해서는 정정할 수 있다.르프리카바크 (대화) 19:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 상당히 보호가 수반되긴 했지만. --NeilN 19:40, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- (충돌 편집)퍼프, 잠깐 시간을 내서 그게 가장 현명한 행동이었는지 생각해봐GMGtalk 19:42, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것이 가장 "최악의" 행동이었는지는 상관없다; 하지만 그것은 분명히 옳은 행동이었다.저작권 침해 또는 근거리 무선 통신 위반을 방지하는 정책을 시행하는 사례가 명확하고 명확하다.선의의 위키피디아인들 사이에 정치적 의견의 메시지로 수백 개의 사용자 대화 페이지를 스팸 발송하는 것이 합법적인지에 대한 정당한 의견 불일치가 있을 수 없다.단순히 그렇지 않다.Fut.Perf.☼ 19:51, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 워, 왜 이 관리자가 보호받았지?그것은 의견 불일치에 대한 꽤 극단적인 반응이다.나는 이것이 관련 행정관이 취하기에 완전히 부적절한 행동이라고 생각한다.네이처리움(토크) 19:49, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Lepricavark:
- 이제 3RR을 위반하셨으니, 누군가 당신에게 책임을 물을 용의가 있는지 알아보도록 합시다.르프리카바크 (대화) 19:34, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 비록 나는 텔레비전 천사주의를 사탄이 교회에 몰래 들어온 가장 음흉한 방법으로 여기는 경향이 있지만, 이것은 정말로 나를 신뢰할 수 있는 소스로 해결되어야 하는 내용 논쟁으로 생각하게 한다.그렇다, NPOV는 정책이고 확실하다. (논쟁을 위해서 그리고 나는 지금 모든 대사를 읽고 싶지 않기 때문에) 나는 그것을 뉴스레터에 적용하는 것에 반대하지 않을 것이다.그러나 그것은 BLP가 하는 방식에서 절차적 정책을 재정의할 수 있는 전권을 가지고 있지 않은 콘텐츠 정책이다.나는 Future Perfect at Sunlight의 출처는 이해하지만 그의 행동에 동의하지 않을 수 없다. 심지어 내가 여기에 관여하는 유일한 편집자였다면 나는 그와 같은 행동을 했을 것이다.그런 만큼 그가 페이지를 보호하는 것은 전혀 부적절했다.
- 그렇기는 하지만, 이 콘텐츠 논쟁은 편집 전쟁을 겪고 있기 때문에 (그리고 페이지가 보호되지 않는다면 분명히 하나가 될 것이다) 나는 페이지를 보호하지 않고 있다(다른 누군가가 페이지를 보호하는 것에 반대하지 않았을 것이다).그러나 나는 뉴스레터의 토크 페이지에서 "대손실"에 대한 출처와 반대 의견이 어떻게 요약되어야 하는지를 결정하는 것에 무게를 두고 토론하는 것을 보고 싶다.이안.thomson (대화) 19:47, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- ? 프로젝트 공간이지만, 기사 공간이라고 해도, 어떤 종류의 소싱 토론이 위키피디아의 목소리에 누군가의 죽음이 "엄청난 손실"이라는 기사가 나올 수 있을까?기껏해야 직접적이든 집단적이든 그것은 귀속될 것이다.그럼에도 불구하고, 적절한 소싱을 동반했을 때 논쟁의 여지가 있는 인물에 대한 특정한 긍정적인 진술이 기사에 적절할 수 있다는 것은, 몇 개의 신랄하기 때문에 "빅토 빌리 그레이엄이 죽었다"는 즉흥적인 논평으로 뉴스레터를 내보내는 것이 적절하다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다.ces는 그를 편협한 사람이라고 불렀다.\\ 20:13, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) FP의 행동을 지지한다.그는 행정적으로 행동하고 있다고 말했는데, 나는 어떻게 완전한 보호가 그를 연루시키는지 모르겠다.더 중요한 것은 이 프로젝트가 위키백과 자원을 사용하여 논란이 많은 인물에 대한 의견을 표명해서는 안 된다는 점이다.그들은 빌 그레이엄의 죽음과 ITN에 게시된 블러브 등 자신의 프로젝트에 영향을 미치는 것들에 대해 보고할 수 있지만, 그레이엄의 유산을 특징 지을 수는 없다.기사에는 없을지 모르지만, 그럼에도 불구하고 도를 넘었다.--Bb23 (대화) 19:52, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 푸트를 지지하십시오.Perf's action here. 여기서 Perf's act.그레이엄이 지지하는 동성애 혐오, 반민족주의, 여성혐오주의 관점이 혐오스럽다고 생각하는 기독교인들이 많이 있으며, 남부 근본주의의 수장으로서 그레이엄이 복음주의 가치와 반대되는 존재라는 견해가 주류 기독교인들 사이에서는 상당히 강하다.나는 그것을 뉴스레터로 말하지 않을 것이고, 우리도 그 반대의 말을 해서는 안 된다.가이 (도움말!) 2018년 4월 4일 19:58 (UTC)[
- 이것이 나쁜 생각인 이유:만약 그것이 WP 자원을 사용하여 얄팍하게 위장한 친 그레이엄 사설을 유포할 수 있다면, 똑같이 편집자라면, '아니오 그는 끔찍한 사람이었습니다'라는 대척점을 그 답례로 유포할 수 있어야 한다.그리고 그 방법은 미친 짓이다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 19:49, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- (분쟁 편집)xFaaS가 대걸레를 창밖으로 던지는 것 이외에는 이것이 어떤 것이 될 수 있는지 설명해줄 사람이 있는가?Jbh Talk 19:52, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 만우절은 끝났어.O3000 (토크) 19:54, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 또한 FPS의 보호를 여기서 지지할 것이다.편집 후 보호하는 것이 가장 현명한 행동 방침은 아닐 수 있지만, 확실히 올바른 행동이다(필요한 경우 IAR이 반드시 적용된다)."관련이 있었으니 그렇게 할 수 없다"는 말이 그 수준에 도달해야 한다면 나 스스로 페이지를 다시 보호할 용의가 있다. --kelapstick(bainuu) 20:10, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 우리가 지금 그 시점인가?콘텐츠 분쟁에 대한 편집 전쟁에 참여했을 때 선호하는 버전의 페이지를 보호해도 되는 곳?뉴스레터의 한 버전에 동의하는지 여부는 WP:관련됨이 있음.
- 어쨌든, 위키백과 강연에 메모를 남겼는데,위키프로젝트 기독교는 우리 모두가 그들을 위해 그들의 프로젝트를 어떻게 진행해야 할지를 결정하고 있다. 또한 부분적으로는 그들의 뉴스레터이기 때문에 구걸에서 이 논의가 이루어졌어야 하는 부분이기 때문이다.GMGtalk 20:19, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 빌리 그레이엄의 죽음이 위키피디아에 심각한 손실이라고 말하는 사람이 어디 있는가?그가 WMF의 활동적인 회원이었을까? 나는 의심스럽다.◆야구 벅스 당근→20:24, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 우리가 다른 방법으로 토크 페이지 토론에 전달할 수 있도록 허락하는 것을 고려할 때 퓨처스의 행동은 문제가 있다고 생각한다.예를 들어 ITN에서 Graham에 대한 토론만 하자(Wikipedia:뉴스/후보자/2018년 2월)에는 그 사람 자체에 대한 의견(기준에 대한 RD/Blub의 적절하지 않음)이 있는데, 누가 행정 조치를 요구할지 의심스럽다.우리는 편집자들이 일상적으로 트럼프를 폄하하고 있는데 어떤 행정관도 비난하지 않을 것이다.만약 이 차이가 위키피디아 대상 의견과 단일 편집자의 의견이라면, 그것은 극도로 불균형해 보인다.나는 뉴스레터에서 사용되는 언어가 더 명백하게 만들어질 수 있다고 생각한다("이 위키피디아 주제에서 우리는 이것을 심각한 손실이라고 생각한다") 그러나 BLP/NPOV/NOT#SOAPBOX가 피하라고 하는 것은 확실히 WP의 자체 위키 음성은 아니다.특정인을 좌지우지하거나, 필요한 내용에 초점을 맞추지 않고 조롱하는 행동을 시작할 것이 아니라면, 나는 이것이 큰 이슈라고 생각하지 않으며, 퓨처스의 일방적 행동이 여기서 적절했다는 것에 동의하지 않는다. --마샘 (t) 20:37, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아가 그렇게 하는 것에 비해 정치주제에 대해 편집자들이 당당하게 말할 문제가 아니다; 문제는 그것이 수백 개의 사용자 토크 페이지에 걸쳐 대량으로 게재될 것이라는 것이다.물론 네 말이 맞아, 만약 누군가가 어떤 토크 페이지 토론 과정에서 즉석에서 정치적인 발언을 한다면, 우리는 그들에게 "빗자루를 들어올리지" 않는다.하지만 만약 누군가가 수백 개의 대화 페이지에 "나는 트럼프를 싫어한다"고 스팸을 보낸다면, 당신은 그들이 즉시 차단될 것이라고 심각하게 의심하는가?"X가 싫어"라고 스팸을 보내는 것과 "Y was great"라고 말하는 것은 정확히 같은 것이다; 그것을 하는 것이 위키피디아의 대상인지 어떤 개인인지는 전혀 문제가 되지 않는다.어쨌든, 나는 지금 당장은, 필요하다면 보호 조치를 취하겠다는 켈라프스틱의 우아한 제의에 비추어 보호를 해제했다.Fut.Perf.20:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 일반적으로 긍정적이거나 호의적인 것으로 받아들여지는 진술(누군가의 죽음은 심오한 손실)을 부정적인 진술과 비교하여 어떻게 취급하는가에 차이가 있으며, 그것이 내가 기억해야 할 중요한 것이라고 생각한다.지적했듯이, 그레이엄의 죽음이 충격적이라는 것을 지적하는 더 재치 있는 방법이 있지만, 결국, 그 언어가 개인이나 위키피디아 주제에서 나온다는 것이 분명한 한, BLP에 관한 긍정적인 진술은 "나쁜" 것으로 취급되어서는 안 된다.뉴스레터에서 BLP를 향한 모욕적인 발언을 포함한 위키백과 주제의 중단이 반드시 필요하다는 데 전적으로 동의하지만, 위키백과 주제의 목소리나 편집자의 목소리에는 WP 자체가 아닌 비교적 긍정적인 주제의 주장을 펴기 어렵다. --Masem (t) 20:54, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- ^^ 이것. --NeilN 20:58, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 일반적으로 긍정적이거나 호의적인 것으로 받아들여지는 진술(누군가의 죽음은 심오한 손실)을 부정적인 진술과 비교하여 어떻게 취급하는가에 차이가 있으며, 그것이 내가 기억해야 할 중요한 것이라고 생각한다.지적했듯이, 그레이엄의 죽음이 충격적이라는 것을 지적하는 더 재치 있는 방법이 있지만, 결국, 그 언어가 개인이나 위키피디아 주제에서 나온다는 것이 분명한 한, BLP에 관한 긍정적인 진술은 "나쁜" 것으로 취급되어서는 안 된다.뉴스레터에서 BLP를 향한 모욕적인 발언을 포함한 위키백과 주제의 중단이 반드시 필요하다는 데 전적으로 동의하지만, 위키백과 주제의 목소리나 편집자의 목소리에는 WP 자체가 아닌 비교적 긍정적인 주제의 주장을 펴기 어렵다. --Masem (t) 20:54, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아가 그렇게 하는 것에 비해 정치주제에 대해 편집자들이 당당하게 말할 문제가 아니다; 문제는 그것이 수백 개의 사용자 토크 페이지에 걸쳐 대량으로 게재될 것이라는 것이다.물론 네 말이 맞아, 만약 누군가가 어떤 토크 페이지 토론 과정에서 즉석에서 정치적인 발언을 한다면, 우리는 그들에게 "빗자루를 들어올리지" 않는다.하지만 만약 누군가가 수백 개의 대화 페이지에 "나는 트럼프를 싫어한다"고 스팸을 보낸다면, 당신은 그들이 즉시 차단될 것이라고 심각하게 의심하는가?"X가 싫어"라고 스팸을 보내는 것과 "Y was great"라고 말하는 것은 정확히 같은 것이다; 그것을 하는 것이 위키피디아의 대상인지 어떤 개인인지는 전혀 문제가 되지 않는다.어쨌든, 나는 지금 당장은, 필요하다면 보호 조치를 취하겠다는 켈라프스틱의 우아한 제의에 비추어 보호를 해제했다.Fut.Perf.20:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 내가 FPS의 보호에 매우 강하게 반대한다고 말할 때 내가 매우 존경하는 몇몇 다른 편집자들과 동의하지 않는다는 것을 발견한다.나는 그들의 목표에 동의한다. 그리고 그 점에서 꽤 강하게-- "빌리 그레이엄이 죽었다"는 중립적인 진술이 "빌리 그레이엄의 죽음은 심대한 손실이었다"보다 훨씬 낫다. 그러나 그것은 편집 전쟁을 핑계할 수는 없고, 전쟁에서 승리하기 위해 행정적인 도구를 사용하는 것은 훨씬 더더욱 아니다.잘난 체하는 모든 위키리크들을 정책에 아낄 테지만, NPOV는 기사 영역 밖에서 적용되든 상관없이 편집 전쟁에 관한 규칙에 대한 명시적인 면제 조항 중 하나가 아니며, 분명히 편집 전쟁은 3RR을 위반하지 않고도 일어날 수 있다.NPOV를 해석하는 것은 콘텐츠 편집자의 행동이며, 따라서 그것을 하는 것은 올캡에 관여하는 사람을 의미 있게 한다.번복을 통해 반복적으로 그것을 주장하는 것은 편집 전쟁이고, 관리 도구로 그것을 보호하는 것은 관련된 모든 것을 위반하는 것이다.IAR은 거기에 들어가지 않고, 내가 해석이나 행동에 얼마나 동의하는지는 상관할 수 없다; "그러나 내가 옳았다"는 것은 전쟁을 편집하기 위한 핑계가 되어본 적이 없다. 전쟁을 편집하기 위한 정책의 주도에 그 자체적인 선을 가지고 있는 정도까지 말이다.이것은 나쁜 편집 전쟁이었고 더 나쁜 보호였다, 이모. 그리고 나는 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC) Writ Keeper : 20:40, 4월 4일 () 전에 여기 온 것처럼 보인다
빌어먹을 뉴스레터야.진심이에요?이건 너무 지나치다.이런 멍청하고 사소한 일로 정말 Arbcom 사건을 시작해야 하는 거야?풀어주고, 편집자들이 해결하게 하고, 제발 바보 같은 짓 좀 그만해. --타라지 (토크) 20:59, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 나는 'ArbCom'에서처럼 FPS의 행동이 문제라는 것을 알았다.나는 빌리 그레이엄에 대해 두 푼도 주지 않지만 FPS는 닫힌 실을 다시 열고 나서 중국 상점에서 황소처럼 진행되었다.그는 편집이 엉망이 되고, 자신의 관리 도구를 사용하겠다고 위협하고, 편집 전쟁에서 승리하기 위해 페이지를 완전히 보호했다; 이것이 순전히 행정적인 것이라는 명확한 정책을 인용하기를 거부했고, 요청받은 대로 보호를 되돌리려 하지 않았다.단순히 '빌리 그레이엄의 죽음은 심대한 손실이었다'는 말이 정치적이라고 주장하는 것만으로는 헛소리 시험을 통과하지 못한다. 우습게도, 기독교 편집자들에게 바쳐진 한 페이지에서, 어떤 죽음도, 어떤 죽음도, 심각한 손실이라고 말하는 사람은 그 얼굴에는 정치적 진술이 없다. 어떤 사람들은 죽음이 엄청난 손실이라고 생각한다. 지옥의 모든 진술은
"2월 21일
빌리 그레이엄
의죽음은 엄청난 손실이었다.
위키백과의 반응에 대해서는 이 토론을 참조하십시오.
그레이엄은 불쑥 말을 받았다.
"
"응, 그것은 바로 그 자리에서 꽤 저주받은 정치 연설이고 그것을"빌리 그레이엄은 죽는다...
""
은 명확한 삭감된 행정 조치가 아니다. Jbh Talk 21:06, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라 - 내가 위에서 말한 원래의 의견을 다시 말해볼게, 푸트.Perf, 당신이 편집하고 있던 페이지를 보호했기 때문에 보호를 취소하시겠습니까? 아니면 내가 중재 요청서 초안을 작성해야 하는가?그게 선택사항이야여기엔 미묘한 차이가 거의 없다.예스냐 노냐 하는 질문이다.GMGtalk 21:13, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 너희들이 진정하고 몇 걸음 물러나는 게 좋을 것 같아.당신이 Fut에 동의하든 동의하지 않든.Perf.의 보호, 나는 이것이 어떻게 WP를 위반하는 것으로 해석될 수 있는지 모르겠다.관련됨.단순한 의견표현이 일반적으로 엄격하게 시행되지 않는다고 해서 특정 관점에 대한 옹호 전파나 토크페이지에서의 개인적인 의견표명이 정책적으로 명시적으로 금지되어 있다는 사실을 바꾸지 않는다.개인 의견의 일방적 제거를 통한 이 정책 시행은 토크 페이지 가이드라인에서 특별히 허용되는 합법적인 조치로서, 관리자 권한으로 정책을 시행하는 경우 "무력"으로 간주되지 않는다.추가적인 시행 조치로 완전한 보호를 채택해야 하는 것은 보호 정책을 준수하는 이 시행 조치에 대한 재량적 보완이다.피치포크들을 치워버리고 만약 당신이 이것을 호소하고 싶다면 그것을 적절한 포럼으로 가져가라."관리자 학대" 고발은 ArbCom에 붙지 않을 것이다.swarm 21:14, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 위키피디아 뉴스레터인데, 그것의 목표 청중들 중 상당수를 멀어지게 할 진술을 포함하는 것은 분명히 부적절하다.WP:BRD를 적용해야 하지만, 누군가가 그들의 개인적인 감정을 뉴스레터에 담으려고 애쓰는 것을 선호했다.어리석은 논쟁이지만 원칙의 요점이 있는데, 그것은 분열된 인물들을 공식적으로 지지한다는 인상을 주어서는 안 된다는 것이다.WP:TRouts all round.가이(도움말!) 21:15, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 난 가이랑 같이 있어.나는 빌리 그레이엄의 팬이지만, 그의 죽음을 '프로필적 손실'이라고 부르는 것은 여기서는 부적절하다. 왜냐하면 기독교도도 아닌 기독교도도 아닌 기독교도인 편집자들이 있을 수 있기 때문이다.그러므로 위키프로젝트는 이러한 전면적인 의견표명을 해서는 안 된다."많은 복음주의 개신교 교인들과 그를 존경했던 다른 사람들에게 큰 손실"이라고 말하는 것은 공정한 진술이었을 것이다. 78.26 21:19, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
페이지는 일단 보호되지 않았다.그들이 돌아왔을 때 타라지가 도움이 되지 않는 편집 요약을 했을 때, 그것은 그렇게 머물지 않을 수도 있다.그러나 이를 다시 닫고 논의를 원래 있던 곳으로 옮길 수 있을까.제발? --NeilN 21:16, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그들이 전쟁을 편집하고 그들의 편집 전쟁을 보호했을 때는 도움이 되지 않았다.그건 공공 기물 파손이고 너도 알잖아.행정권 남용에 대해서는 예의를 갖추지 않겠다. --타라지 (대화) 21:19, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 충격적이게도, 내 편집이 되돌아가고 다시 보호되었다.말도 안 되는 소리지.이 전체 이슈는 연이어 실패의 연속이었다.부끄러운 줄 알아야지.끝났어. --Tarage (대화) 21:24, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 또 재발견됐군이제 나는 토크 페이지에서 토론을 시작하고, 어떤 식으로든 합의를 볼 것을 권하고 싶다. 왜냐하면 이곳은 그것을 할 장소가 아니기 때문이다.임박한 ArbCom 사건 기대. --kelapstick(bainuu) 21:26, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 당신의 편집은 분열이 있다는 것을 알고, 어떤 토론 시도도 하지 않았고(나는 방금 그가 말하는 첫 편집 토트를 만들었을 뿐), 그리고 당신은 푸트를 거짓으로 비난했기 때문에 되돌렸다.공공 기물 파손 행위.그건 멍청한 짓이었어무엇을 기대하셨나요?아니, 그걸 긁어봐. 넌 정확히 뭘 기대해야 할지 알고 있었어.가이(도움말!) 21:29, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 충격적이게도, 내 편집이 되돌아가고 다시 보호되었다.말도 안 되는 소리지.이 전체 이슈는 연이어 실패의 연속이었다.부끄러운 줄 알아야지.끝났어. --Tarage (대화) 21:24, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- (갈등을 편집) 좀 진정시킬 수 있도록 서류 제출을 보류하겠다.그러나 나는 이것을 편집자 그룹에 대한 개인적인 정치적/사회적/종교적 의견을 집행하기 위해 행정관이 도구를 사용하는 "밝은 선" 이슈로 본다.나는 그들이 망쳤다고 말하는 FPS에 미치지 못하는 해결책이 여기 있다고 보지 않는다.억지로 사과하는 것은 무의미하지만, 위키피디아 규범에 따르면, 오류의 인정은 필수적이다.사례 요청 초안은 User:Jbhunley/샌드박스/빨간색 패드 06.나는 일반적으로 관리인 대걸레를 쫓는 사건을 지지하지 않지만, 이 모든 사건은 잘못되었다. 깊고 심오한 잘못이었다.나는 그레이엄이 세상에서 가장 큰 쓰레기였더라도 상관하지 않는다. 뉴스레터 편집자들이 진정한 슬픔을 표현하고 있었을 것이다.FPS의 행동은 작고, 생각이 작고, 전반적으로 형편없었고, 이 모든 것은 괜찮다.좋지 않은 것은 공동체가 그에게 위임한 도구를 사용하여 그 추태를 강요하는 것이다.Jbh Talk 21:31, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- "과대손실"이라는 표현 지원:이 토론이 굉장히 길어지니까 이렇게 코멘트를 하겠다.위키프로젝트 크리스티니티와 그 소식지는 메인 스페이스 페이지도 아니므로 위키피디아의 중립지침이 반드시 적용되는 것은 아니다.위키백과 네임스페이스 페이지에는 노골적인 의견조차 허용된다는 것을 알게 된 1년 반 전에 시작한 이 토론이 기억난다.따라서 위키프로젝트 회원은 자신의 뉴스레터에 대한 자기만의 표현과 POV를 결정할 수 있어야 하며, 다른 사람들이 자신이 결정하는 것을 좋아하지 않으면 구독할 필요가 없다(결국 뉴스레터는 구독을 희망하는 사람들을 위한 것이다).--1990'sguy (대화) 22:23, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
jps에 대한 주제 금지
| 둘 다 일어나지 않을 것이다. jps는 많은 사람들이 제안했듯이 덜 냉정해지도록 노력하라.ansh666 오후 1시49분, 오늘(UTC-4) |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
jps는 뜨거운 물에 빠졌을 때마다 이름이 바뀌기 때문에 알아보지 못할 수도 있다. 내 팔만큼 긴 블록 통나무를 가지고 있기 때문이다. 하지만 오늘에 와서야 jps는 '말하기'를 했다.이 실에 대한 공정한 부차적 격차, 우는 BLP, 경박한 경고 등 반나절을 뒤로 하고 완전히 보호받아야 했던 아크 조우회가 나중에 BLPN에서 퇴짜를 맞았다.그리고 지금 ANI에 나타난 것은 그들이 한 번도 관여해 본 적이 없는 위키프로젝트의 뉴스레터에 대해 불평하기 위한 것이며, 사전에 해결하려는 시도를 하지 않았고, 그들 자신의 경박한 실의 끝을 되돌리기 위한 시도를 하지 않았다.
대략적으로 해석되는 종교로부터의 주제 금지를 제안하십시오. 이것은 6개월 후에 호소될 수 있다.한 블럭을 권하고 싶은데, 보아하니 그건 안 먹히네.GMGtalk 01:59, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 여기 따라온 거야? jps (대화) 02:04, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 이 페이지는 "새로운" 사용자들에게만 해당 질문이 타당할 정도로 충분한 사람들의 감시 목록에 있다.이안.톰슨 (대화) 02:06, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 그게 중요한가?당신의 행동은 혐오스럽고 내가 직접 당신의 블록 일지를 살펴본 결과...그래...너는 그 프로젝트에 완전히 부정적이다.어떻게 보면 내가 위와 같은 일을 마무리 지음으로써 너에게 호의를 베풀고 있었던 것 같다.내 실수. --타라지 (대화) 02:07, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 지원 - 제안자로서, 그리고 하루 종일 이것을 따르고 있는 사람.GMGtalk 02:06, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 지지 - 자연스럽게.하루 종일 순마이너스. --타라지(토크) 02:07, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 템플리트 및 위협만 살펴보십시오. User_talk:레거시pac#4월_2018 오늘.그는 내가 10만 편집본을 넘긴 직후에 "방주 만남에서 롤백"을 학대했고 내가 공공 기물 파손 행위를 했다고 비난했다.중립 콘텐츠 제작에 관심이 없음.레거시pac (대화) 02:19, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대 내 기사-공간 작업이 그 자체라고 생각한다.기사스페이스에 대한 나의 기여가 마음에 들지 않으면 이유를 알려줘 jps (대화) 02:25, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대 jps는
종종'원래'일 수 있지만 나는 여기서 일반적으로 종교가 특정한 이슈라는 증거를 보지 못한다.프린지 또는 가성 과학이 문제 영역인 경우에 해당될 수 있지만, 분명하고 설득력 있는 증거는 그가 그 영역에서 순 부정적이라는 것을 제시해야 할 것이다.Jbh Talk 02:46, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC) 마지막 편집: '흔히'라고 말할 수 없다. 그저 열렬하거나 '생각보다 덜한' 행동을 내 기억에 많이 남을 만큼 많이 보아왔지만, 누군가가 그를 끄집어낼 때 '문제 편집자'라고 생각한다는 것만으로. 02:51, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[ - 지원: 다행히 위의 뉴스레터 사건은 jps와의 첫 만남이다.내가 알기로는, 나는 그들의 이름을 전부 검토하지 않았다.그것은 이 편집자의 전반적인 행동이 불안하다고 말했다.그들은 미개하고 그들 자신의 POV를 추진하기 위해 우리 경찰들을 학대한다.그들의 긴 블록 로그는 그들이 얼마나 자주 잡히는지 반영한다.그것은 jps가 여기 User_talk:1990'sguy#4월_2018 (@90'sguy:)에서 그랬던 것처럼 이 편집자가 시스템을 게임하거나 다른 편집자들을 괴롭히는 것을 몇 번이나 놓쳤는지 보여주지 않는다.경험 많은 편집자들은 이런 종류의 강탈을 무시할 것이다.하지만 새로운 편집자들은 어떨까?그들은 분명히 겁을 먹을 것이다. jps는 포럼 쇼핑의 시도로 몇몇 게시판에서 아크 조우회에 대한 논의를 시작했다. jps는 이러한 게시판에서 지나치게 많은 편집자 시간을 낭비하고 있다.이 일은 끝나야 한다.– 리오넬(talk) 03:10, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대: 그는 보통 WP에 따라 위키백과 기사를 가지고 온다.PAGs, 그래서 나는 주제 금지를 지지하지 않을 것이다.그의 문제는 나쁜 행동이다. 그리고 나는 48시간 블록이 그에게 그것을 분명히 해줄 것이라고 생각한다.Tgeorgescu (대화) 03:24, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 설명:특수:로그/블록&페이지=User:ජ user:는 세 가지 "마지막 기회" 즉, 인데버 사이트 금지 및 밀접하게 관련된 주제에 대한 AE의 이력을 보여준다.나는 또 다른 변명을 지지할 것이다.그럴 가치도 없어.레거시pac (대화) 03:26, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 글쎄, 난 그가 성질이 안 좋을 때마다 48시간 동안 일해야 한다고 생각해.사이비 과학 주제에 대한 재량적 제재는 이미 규정되어 있다.Tgeorgescu (대화) 03:29, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 한숨 쉬어. 레거시팩과 함께 있는 것 같아.나는 Tgeorgescu와 심지어 실질적인 기여에 대해 스스로 논하고 있기 때문에 유감이다. 나는 그가 이 모든 것을 시작하게 한 문제에 개인적으로 동의한다. 단지 장소나 접근방식이 아니라. 그러나 WP:CIR은 백과사전 구축의 다른 측면에 적용되는 것만큼 다른 사람들과 건설적으로 작업하는 데 많이 적용된다.로데오에서 10년이 지난 지금, 그의 반응은 전혀 모르고 있는 것처럼 보인다. 그 부분 또한 문제가 되고 있다. 그리고 이 특정한 경우를 넘어서, 일반적으로, 우리는 얼마나 많은 훌륭한 편집자들이 로데오에서 얼마나 많은 것을 추구하는지 아는 사람을 희생시키면서 너무 오랫동안 혼란을 방치하는 데 문제가 있다고 생각한다.사이트 f(그것이 바로 이 편집자가 여기서 중요한 것은 기사 기고가 전부라는 인상을 받은 방법일 것이다.)10년은 충분히 길다. 나는 변명을 지지한다.이니스프리987 (대화) 03:57, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대하라, 주의하라.jps로서는 상대편에서 온 당파적 편집자들의 '지지'에 별로 비중을 두지 않지만, 다른 곳에서 밀린 뒷받침을 받고 있다는 사실은 기내에서 떠맡아야 할 부분이다.과학적 진실성을 유지해야 하는 부담이 오로지 어깨에만 떨어지는 것은 아니라는 점을 기억하라.그저 적절한 장소에 있는 물건들을 -- 차분하고 재는 목소리로 -- 다른 사람들이 행동을 취하도록 내버려 두십시오.그래, 가끔은 아무도 행동하지 않을 때도 있어.괜찮습니다. 위키피디아가 가끔 형편없을 거라는 걸 알 정도로 오랫동안 여기 계셨잖아요.하지만 긴 안목으로 보면 결국 잘 풀린다.쇼크여단 하베스터 보리스 (대화) 03:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 지원:나는 적어도 한 번 더 jps와 마주친 적이 있는데, 그의 행동은 그를 사용자:타라지가 말했다.그는 협박, 괴롭힘, 인신공격에 관여하고 있으며, 그의 전반적인 행동은 고약하고 비파괴적이다.거의 2년 전 그와 마지막으로 교감했을 때와 조금도 달라지지 않았고, 주제 금지가 적절하다고 생각한다. --1990년식 (토크) 04:02, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 논평 - 만약 내가 jps에 대한 주제 금지를 지지한다면, 그것은 사용자 이름을 바꾸는 것에 반대할 것이다. -- c'mon, man, relause of user name을 바꾸는 것에 반대할 것이다. 그것은 당신을 믿을 수 없을 정도로 유죄로 보이게 만든다.이름을 골라 붙이시오.뉴스레터라면, 내 충고는, 얼간이처럼 굴지 말라는 것일 것이다.위키백과 기독교 위키프로젝트의 뉴스레터는 위키피디아를 대표하는 것이 아니라 위키피디아 기독교인을 대표하므로, 그들에게 맡겨 정확히 그들을 대표하는지 아닌지를 결정하도록 한다.만약 그들이 유대인, 이슬람교도, 이교도, 불교도, 무신론자, 농노스트들을 괴롭히기 시작한다면, 그건 다른 문제일 겁니다. 그리고 여러분은 쇠고기를 가지고 있을 겁니다. 하지만 그것이 에큐메니컬한 것이라면, 그들은 과도하게 반대하거나, 그들의 뉴스레터를 이용해서 산문화 시키지 않을 겁니다.이 나머지 부분에서는, 자신의 행동에 대해 어떤 말이 나오고 있는지 살펴보고, 그것을 내면화하여 변화를 위해 최선을 다하는 것이 좋을 것이다.그 동안 새 영구 이름을 선택하십시오(크기는 JPS를 켜 보십시오).비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 04:16, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이의 있다.WP:X는 확실히 "위키페디안 기독교인"을 대표하지 않고 특정 부문만을 대표한다.쇼크여단 하베스터 보리스 (대화) 11시 57분 (UTC) 2018년 4월 4일 (화)[
- 특히 직접 관여하지 않는 문제에 직면할 경우 즉시 ANI로 서둘러 문제를 해결할 것이 아니라 적절한 장소에서 문제를 해결하기 위한 합리적인 시도를 해야 한다는 것을 지지하고 이를 교훈으로 삼으십시오.하늘은 떨어지지 않고 있었다.르프리카바크 (대화) 05:06, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 설명:그의 모든 결점에도 불구하고 빌리 그레이엄은 그의 이름만 아는 아들에 비해 성자였다.그 이상으로, 나는 BMK의 위의 논평에 동의한다.base야구 벅스 당근→05:32, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 약한 반대 나는 이 문제를 자세히 조사할 시간이 없지만, 당면한 문제는 아크 조우(Ark Houncil)의 완전한 보호에 의해 해결된다.jps의 지난 6개월간의 편집 이력을 간단히 살펴보면 다음과 같은 많은 WP를 볼 수 있다.프린지 관련 편집은 했지만 문제는 없었고, 여기 있는 몇몇 투표는 이 문제에 대해 내가 고려할 수 있는 편집자들의 것이다.나는 위키피디아에서는 정의를 추구하는 절제하는 것이 미덕이라는 것을 jps들에게 기억하라고 충고하고 싶다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 05:40, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나? -Roxy, the dog. 바커스 06:31, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 사전이 필요한 줄 몰랐네, 야구벅스. --CaltonTalk 06:52, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 종교인들에 대한 비난.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?】→07:14, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 음, 음, 좋아.OP도 덩치인가? -Roxy, the dog.barcus 07:26, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 합리주의 기독교인 록시가 있다.말을 좀 더 신중하게 골라라.쇼크여단 하베스터 보리스 (대화) 12시 3분, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 음, 음, 좋아.OP도 덩치인가? -Roxy, the dog.barcus 07:26, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 종교인들에 대한 비난.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?】→07:14, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대하다. jps는 열을 식힐 필요가 있다. 나는 그가 "순전히 부정적인" 사람이라는 것에 동의하지 않는다. 그러나 대학적이고 온건한 방식으로 행동하도록 상기시킬 필요가 있다.위에 계신 분이 48시간 구역에 대해 언급하셨는데, 나는 그것을 지지할 것이다.그의 블록 로그는 Eeng의 TP처럼 보이지만 정밀 검사 결과 모든 블록이 좋았던 것은 아니다.)Jschnur (대화) 07:07, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나보다 위에 있는 Jschenur 당 반대하라.JPS는 덜 비열해질 필요가 있다.(다른)블록이 치료제인지는 확실하지 않지만, 해볼 만 하다.--Dlohcierkim (토크) 07:12, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대 여기서 문제는 jps가 종교에 관한 기사 주제를 다루는 방법이 아니다.편집 이력을 바탕으로 최근 몇 달간 UFO 사건, 정크 과학(콜드 퓨전), 가성 과학 같은 프린지 주제에 초점을 맞추고 있다.(그리고 왜 그의 편집이 지속적으로 내 감시 목록에 나타나는지 계속 궁금했다.)문제는 jps가 실제 논의는커녕 계속 개인 위협에 의존하고 있다는 점이다.그것은 주제 금지에 의해 해결된 것이 아니다.부차적인 측면에서, 나는 공공 기물 파손으로 고발된 사용자: 1990년대 guy와 이전에 상호작용을 했었다.나는 개인적으로 다양한 주제에 대한 사용자의 명시적 견해에 동의하지 않지만, 그가 기사에 POV-push를 만들거나 어떤 것에 미인증 자료를 추가하는 것을 본 적이 없다.디마딕 (대화) 07:43, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대, 과잉 살상으로 보인다.위키피디아의 뉴스레터에 대해 흥분하는 것은 우스꽝스러운 일이다. 이것은 어떤 기사에도 영향을 미치지 않으며, 만약 그렇게 하지 않는다면 사람들은 그들의 의견을 표현하고 예의 바르게 지낼 수 있다.우리는 사상경찰이 아니다.그래서 나는 jps가 아마도 그의 접근을 적당히 할 필요가 있다고 제안하고 싶다.피쉬+카레이트 08:44, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대 - 말도 안 돼.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 14:41, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 반대 - 질문한 질문이 완전히 타당하며 위키피디아 주제 토크 페이지에 나와 있더라도 SOAPBOX가 가능할 수 있다는 우려를 제기한다.그들이 옳고 그름을 따질 수도 있지만, 질문을 하기 때문에 주제 금지나 차단을 요구하는 것은 어느 쪽에도 근거가 없다. --Masem (t) 14:49, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 글쎄, 공평하게 말하자면, 그 제안은 종교와 관련된 비난, 편집, 그리고 다른 편집자들을 비하하는 하루 종일 계속된 비난에 대한 반응이었는데, 그것은 우연히 위의 (IMO) 명백히 부적절한 실타래로 절정에 이르렀는데, 맥락상, 이 실상은 마치 계속적인 종교적 주제에서의 비난처럼 끔찍하게 보인다.
- 어쨌든, 지지에 대한 의견 일치가 거의 없고, 누군가 이것을 즉시 끝내면 우리는 전반적으로 시간을 절약할 수 있을 것이다.GMGtalk 14:54, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대 - Jps는 의사 과학과 그들의 옹호자들에 대한 그의 참여에 있어서 다소 격렬하다.아크 조우문 문제는 종교적인 내용과 반드시 관련이 있는 것이 아니라 편집자들이 그것을 유사과학이라고 부르는 서술들을 반복적으로 삭제한 방식과 관련이 있다(즉, 나는 그것이 크리스탈 힐링, 인두학, 또는 타임 큐브라면 그에게서 같은 것을 기대할 것이다.프린지 콘텐츠에 관한 한, jps는 적어도 그의 주장의 일반적인 추진력에서는 옳다.IMO, 문제가 생기면, 그의 관심 때문에 그는 가장 좌절감을 주는 종류의 민간 POV 밀매자와 관계를 맺게 되고, 그 내용을 넘어 사용자 스스로와 관계를 맺게 된다.BLPN으로 이어진 논평은 불쾌했지만, 나는 그것이 BLPN으로 올 필요가 있었다는 것에 동의하지 않는다.이 실의 주제는 사실 조금 염려스럽지만, 아마도 ANI보다 더 많은 안구를 가져오기에 좋은 곳이 있을 것이다.어쨌든 종교에 대한 주제 금지는 완전히 빗나가고 있다.\\ 15:03, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
jps용 블록
그의 지지자들 중 일부는 블록이 더 좋은 생각이라고 생각하므로, 나는 블록을 제안한다.코멘트가 통과될 경우 관리자가 코멘트를 최종 검토하여 재설정할 길이.
- 선의의 편집자에 대한 그의 공격 범위, 롤백자의 남용, 지적된 다른 문제들, 그리고 이러한 나쁜 행동을 줄이기 위한 과거 블록들의 실패에 기초하여 한 달간의 블록을 지원한다.그는 오늘 적어도 두 번은 나를 블록으로 위협했다 - 칼에 의해 살고 칼에 의해 죽는다.레거시pac (대화) 09:47, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이 시점에서 나는 네가 ANI에서 잠시 벗어나야 한다고 생각해.이런 태도는 전혀 도움이 되지 않을 것이다.Fish+Karate 10:39, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 지지하라 위의 제재가 통과되지 않는다는 것은 말도 안 되는 일이지만, 무언가 조치를 취해야 한다.르프리카바크 (대화) 14:34, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 주석 - 사용자가 6개월 블록을 직접 요청함여기서 논쟁하기보다는 우리 시간을 가지고 다른 일을 하러 가자.GMGtalk 14:40, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대 - 의견 불일치에 대한 명백한 '징벌' 차단.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다 (대화) 14:42, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 반대. 진짜?주제 금지에 대한 관심을 끌지 못하셨는데, 대신 '차단 투표'를 원하십니까?가이 (도움말!) 14:58, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대 - 당연히 아니다.\\ 15:03, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 반대 --SerkOfVulcan (대화) 15:45, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[하라
중재 사건 요청 접수
중재 사건 요청: 위키백과:중재/요청/사례#대걸레 Jbh Talk 16:12, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
템플릿에 긴급 편집 필요:아니오
| 처리했다.상각(T)(C) 23:03, 2018년 4월 5일(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 편집 요청은 4,000페이지 이상의 전재에 영향을 미치기 때문에 답변이 필요하다.E to the Pi times i (토크 기여) 22:55, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[하라
사용자:아르제이이
| WP:BOOMERang. OP/IP는 궁극적으로 관리 보잉의 이 편집을 위해 일주일 동안 차단했다고 제베디가 말했다.(비관리자 폐쇄) --Hammersoft (대화) 17:35, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
설명 없이 반복적으로 삭제된 인용 내용 복원: 여기 및 여기.여기서 연 토크 페이지 스레드의 변경 사항에 대해 논의하기를 거부함:Talk:Sergei_Rachmaninoff#Recent_changes.2A00:23C4:9010:C400:8C12:C052:C189:AED3 (대화) 15:43, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
- 당신의 첫 번째 차이점은 Arjayay의 편집이며 인용된 내용을 삭제하는 것은 당신이라는 것을 주목할 필요가 있다.다른 편집자들은 그것을 복구하고 있다.아마도 WP:CIR 상황.마넷DTAK 15:48, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
| The ANI Bannstar | |
| 논쟁의 여지가 없이 생산적인 일을 한 것에 대해, 누군가가 그것을 위해 당신을 ANI로 끌고 갔다.GMGtalk 16:19, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[ |
OP는 Arjayay의 편집을 수정하여 Arjay가 그에게 그렇게 말한 것처럼 보이게 했다.나는 편집을 되돌렸고, 이미 {{uw-tpv4}}의 경고를 받은 OP에게 {{uw-vandalism3}}의 경고를 남겼다.내 생각에 OP/IP는 이 시점에서 마지막 단계라고 생각하는데, 더 이상의 셰나니거는 블록을 초래할 것이다.하지만, 그들 또한 지금 거의 한 시간 가까이 편집하지 않았기 때문에, 이것은 지금 휴면상태일 수도 있다. --Hammersoft (대화) 17:10, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
Giant Snowman :자이언트 스노우맨
| 에티켓 & 콘텐츠 분쟁 | |
| (관리자 이외의 폐쇄) ANI 결의에 적합하지 않음(현재).루르드 12시 20분, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[하라 | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 자이언트 스노우맨을 보도하고 싶다. 나는 그가 종종 다른 편집자들 때문에 존경을 표하지 않고 종종 표준 위키 에티큐트를 따르지 않는다고 생각한다.나는 인터넷에서 인용문을 찾고 있는 레이 윌킨스 기사를 훑어보고 있는데, 어떻게 자이언트 스노우맨이 와서 다른 편집자들에게 고칠 기회를 주지 않고 콘텐츠의 질량을 제거하기 시작한다.ettiequte가 부족하고, 어떤 점을 인용해야 하는지 지적하지 못하고, 다른 편집자들이 와서 내용을 수정해야 할 시간을 주지 않는다.아아, 문제의 기사는 하루아침에 죽은 축구 선수에 관한 것으로, 방금 죽은 축구 선수에게 매우 무례하게 느껴지는 기사뿐만 아니라 파괴적인 것처럼 보인다.나는 가끔 그의 행동이 관리자답지 않다는 것을 안다.고비 (대화) 15:47, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 최근에 죽은 사람에 대한 많은 내용들을 삭제했는데, 그것은 공급되지 않았고 POV로 가득 차 있었다.WP:RS, WP:V, WP:BURDEN, WP:BLP는 여전히 적용된다.당신은 당신이 다시 추가한 어떤 컨텐츠의 출처를 찾으려고 시도하지 않은 반면, 나는 먼저 시작했다.그것이 당신이 기사를 만드는 방법이지, 나중에 소스가 없는 내용을 추가한 다음 출처를 찾는 것이 아니다.그것은 기본적인 것이다.WP:BOOMERang이 여기에 적용된다.자이언트 스노우맨 15:50, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 인용을 추가하기 위해 편집하는 내용을 모두 삭제해버려서 편집 충돌로 인해 내가 한 일을 더 할 수가 없었어, 내가 한 시간 남짓의 작업을 잃어버렸는데, 너는 가끔 너무 방해만 돼.난 네가 가끔 나를 존경하지 않는 것 같아, 관리인답지 않아.고비 (대화) 15:55, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- GiantSnowman에 의해 제거된 것은 소싱이 확실히 필요하지만(이것은 최근 사망/ITN으로 메인 페이지 포스팅에 지명되었음), BLP를 제거하기 위해 고려할 때 조차 지나치게 논쟁적인 것으로 보이지 않는다; 모든 자료들은 편집자들이 뉴스를 검색할 시간이 주어진다면 쉽게 구할 수 있는 것 같다.기록 보관소삭제된 것은 대부분 한동안 기사에 실려 있었기 때문에(1yr+) 정말 BLOULD는 적용되지 않는다.자이언트 스노우맨은 기술적으로 비소싱 소재 제거가 적절하다는 것은 맞지만, 현재 그의 죽음으로 인해 활동이 난무하고 있다는 점을 감안할 때, 이곳에는 사람들이 소싱 개선을 위해 노력하고 있다는 것을 알 때 베풀어야 할 관대함이 있다.GS가 한 달 전 이랬다면 별 문제가 없을 것이다. --Masem (t) 15:56, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 재료가 그곳에 오래 있었다고 해서 그것이 어떤 종류의 여유를 가지고 있다는 것에 정중히 반대한다. -만약 그것이 더 나쁘다면!자이언트 스노우맨 15:59, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)Govervy - WP를 읽어보십시오.부메랑, 당신은 또한 이것을 철회하고 당신의 변화에 대해 토론하기 위해 많은 수의 미지원 및 논쟁적인 내용을 추가하는 대신에 대화 페이지로 가는 것이 좋을 것이다.WP 읽기:WARRING, WP:UNSOURCED, WP:BRD를 사용하는 동안. –Davey2010Talk 15:57, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 난 마셈과 함께 할거야.ITN/RD에서 페이지를 제출할 때, 활동의 증가는 기대되며 때로는 더 많은 인내심이 필요하다.비소싱 콘텐츠 제거는 확실히 제대로 이뤄졌지만, 이런 특수한 상황에서는 노골적인 BLP 위반이 없었다면 {{cn}을(를) 넣는 것이 더 도움이 됐을 것이라고 생각한다.알렉스 시 (토크) 2018년 4월 4일 16:10 (UTC)[
- 그래서 "윌킨스와 그의 가족은 이탈리아에 빨리 정착했다 [...]와 같은 비협조적인 표현은 그가 레인저스에서 보낸 시간을 즐긴 것이었고, 윌킨스에 대한 팬들의 사랑은 클럽과의 마지막 경기를 마친 후[...] 그는 퀸즈 파크 레인저스에 입단했는데, 그의 가족이 집에서 10년 떨어져 있는 것이 충분히 길다고 결정한 후였다"는 것은 받아들여질 수 있는 일인가?자이언트 스노우맨 16:16, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
편집 충돌이 아니라 기사만 남겨둘 거야, 내가 작업하던 내용이 그렇게 삭제된 것도 도움이 안 되고, 윌킨스에게 경의를 표하는 것도 도움이 안 되고, 편집자로서 나를 풀어 일을 돕는 것도 도움이 안 돼.나는 자이언트 스노우맨이 그의 행동이 파괴적일 수 있고 위키백과 작업을 할 때 그의 과정을 재검토할 필요가 있다는 것을 이해하기를 바랄 뿐이다.이것은 단지 하나의 기사에 대한 내용 삭제에 관한 것이 아니라, 그가 위키백과 편집을 하는 과정에 관한 것이며, 기사의 전체 부분을 효과적으로 제거하기 전에 여기저기서 인용 요청을 할 수 있는 존경을 가지고 있는 것이다.P.S 관리자:존은 도와주고 있었지만, 먼저 낮은 가치의 경고 대신 최종 경고로 뺨을 때렸다.행정관들이 처벌을 면하기 전에 대화를 나누는 것이 더 좋을 것이다.고비 (대화) 16:20, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 내가 16시간 전에 종영한 이후로 아무도 이것을 편집하지 않았기 때문에, 나는 그것이 어느 정도 그것에 대한 지지와 같다고 생각한다.어떤 경우든, 그것은 확실히 이 콘텐츠 분쟁에 대한 우호적인 관심이 사라졌음을 나타낸다. 이 시점에서는 근접성이 적절할 것이다.—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 08:19, 2018년 4월 5일(UTC)[
나는 이 실이 닫히기 전에 내가 이 실마리를 보지 못한 것에 대해 조금 유감스럽게 생각한다. 왜냐하면 여기에는 토론할 수 있는 시스템적인 이슈가 있기 때문이다. 우리가 그 때 메인 페이지의 시간에 민감한 부분에 대해 지명된 기사에서 논쟁의 여지가 없는 (때로는 논쟁의 여지가 없는) 자료를 다루는 방법에 대해.이 단계에서 닫힌 실을 되살리려 하지는 않겠지만, 조만간 다시 올라올 것으로 기대한다.고비는 자신의 우려를 행동 이슈로 개인화하는 것보다 여기서 더 잘했을지도 모르지만, 이 상황에 직면한 편집자는 고비만이 아니다.뉴욕브래드 (대화) 13:57, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 근접성을 이해할 수 없다; "에티켓과 내용 논쟁 ANI 결의안에 적절하지 않다 (현재) - ANI에는 이러한 이슈가 언제 "적절하지 않다"는 것인가?'비관리자'의 클로즈업?루르드는 행정관이 아닌가?(약 한 달 전에 그녀가 RfA를 통과하는 것을 본 것을 맹세할 수 있었다.)만약 NYBrad가 이 보고서가 더 많은 논의를 할 수 있다고 느낀다면, 아마도 그는 그것을 다시 열어야 할 것이다. tVC 11:05, 2018년 4월 6일 (UTC)[하라
- ANI Govervy (토크) 11:12, 2018년 4월 6일 (UTC)에서 비관리자 클로즈(non-administrator)가 있을 수 없을 것 같아 궁금했다
- 정말? @ 둘 다:지극히 흔한 일이다.그리고 ANI는 콘텐츠 분쟁에 적합한 장소라고는 할 수 없다.—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 11:20, 2018년 4월 6일(UTC)[
- 이것은 결코 콘텐츠 분쟁에 관한 것이 아니라, 다른 사람들이 콘텐츠 삭제 전에 요청 {{cn}}과 같은 절차를 따라 기사를 삭제하기 전에 기사를 편집하고 개선하도록 하기 위한 것이었다.편집자가 존재하지 않는 내용에 대한 표창을 받는다고 가정은 어떤가?모든 편집자가 기사의 역사로 직행하여 삭제된 내용을 검토하지는 않을 것이다.자이언트 스노우맨이 한 일은 다른 편집자들이 와서 내용을 검토하여 수정하기 전에 큰 척을 제거하는 것이었다.이것은 기사를 최근 죽음/ITN의 표준으로 끌어올리기 위해 제공된 시간 틀에서 에티켓을 훨씬 넘어선다.고비 (대화) 11시 35분, 2018년 4월 6일 (UTC)[
- 정말? @ 둘 다:지극히 흔한 일이다.그리고 ANI는 콘텐츠 분쟁에 적합한 장소라고는 할 수 없다.—SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 11:20, 2018년 4월 6일(UTC)[
- ANI Govervy (토크) 11:12, 2018년 4월 6일 (UTC)에서 비관리자 클로즈(non-administrator)가 있을 수 없을 것 같아 궁금했다
물품에 대한 비소싱 및 잘못된 정보의 지속적인 추가
- 178.2.72.68 (대화 · 기여)
편집자는 92.216.255.190(토크 · 기여)과 같을 가능성이 높으며, 여러 기사에 비소싱 및/또는 잘못된 정보를 계속 추가하였다.예를 들어, 로란 왕국에서는 편집자가 쓴 것이 로란이 아니라 호탄 왕국에 관한 것이 확실하다(분명히 로란이 티베트 출처에서 언급된 리 군이라고 잘못 믿고 있었음에도 불구하고, 그럼에도 불구하고 그것이 잘못되었다는 것을 알게 되었을 때에도 계속해서 같은 정보를 추가하였다). [26] [27][28][29], 제모에 있는 동안카운티, 편집자는 계속해서 비소싱 정보를 추가하고, 제거했을 때, 다른 페이지에서 복사한 더 많은 내용(때로는 관련이 없을 수도 있음)으로 동일한 비소싱 콘텐츠를 계속 재첨부한다 [30] [31] [32] [33].Hzh (대화) 21:59, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[
범위 블록 요청
82.132로 시작하는 많은 IP 주소는 차단된 10alatham이라는 사용자에 의해 많은 이전 블록을 회피하기 위해 사용되었다.이것은 오늘 매티더화이트가 확인한 모든 양말의 목록을 보여준다.레인지 블록 한두 개가 10알라탐으로 트롤링하는 것을 막는 데 도움이 될 것이다.또한 Mattythewhite는 범위 블록에 대한 경험이 없고 개별 IP와 사용자 블록만 있다.이기(스완) 20:23, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
사용자:얼베이락
Sava Mahmoud 페이지와 관련하여 관리자로부터 지원을 요청하고자 함(User:사용자처럼 albayrack:스마무데알베이락은 편집 전쟁을 벌이고 있다.근거 없는 새로운 정보를 추가하는 이유들은 사용자가 페이지에서 학자의 학생이라고 주장하는 것에 대한 공격뿐만 아니라, 지원되지 않고 비지원적인 정보에 의존해왔다.사용자:얼베이락은 24시간 이내에 3번(두 번) 되돌렸으며, 그 결과 관리자가 필요하게 된다.사용자 토크 페이지에는 편집 전쟁 문제가 플래그로 표시되었지만 사용자는 계속 되돌아갔다.이 사용자와 페이지에 관심을 가져줘서 고마워.폴리티쿤테오리는 (대화) 20:42, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
- 지난 한 달 동안 단 한 번의 건설적인 편집도 없었던 것으로 보이며, 확정/확장된 확인 계정과 신규 계정 양쪽에서 여러 당사자들로부터 많은 편집 전쟁이 있었다.나는 3일 동안 완전한 보호를 적용하여 더 이상의 편집 전쟁을 방지하고 토크 페이지 상의 토론을 장려했다.상각(T)(C) 20:55, 2018년 4월 3일(UTC)[
- 3RR위반 이후 전쟁을 계속 편집했다는 이유로 24시간 동안 albayrak을 막았다.보호가 내 다음 단계가 되려 했지만, 상각제가 날 이겼어.캔터베리 테일톡 20:58, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
불능 및 통신 실패
알렉스가 2600:800을 막았다.FF0E:1200:AD51:B4EE:9659:A29C(토크 · 기여 · (/64) · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그) 후, 인신공격성 비블록 요청에 응한 후, 의심받을 때 이곳으로 안내했다.이 IP에서 지속적인 문제가 발생하고 있다.그들의 토크 페이지 이력을 자세히 보아라. 그러면 당신은 며칠에 걸쳐 끈질기게 그들의 다양한 정책에 관심을 끌려고 노력하는 나를 보게 될 것이다.
위반의 예
- 하나 둘 셋 넷 미개인의 전쟁 편집
- 논란이 된 내용에 대한 의견 초대를 무시함(아직 의견을 제시하지 않음)
- 하나, 둘, 셋, 나처럼 분명히 양말 퍼플인 러블리걸7에 대한 불친절함(이것은 그들이 동의하지 않는 누구에 대한 그들의 기본 반응인 것 같다)
- 하나, 둘, 세 가지 예시로서 선의로 행동하는 다른 사용자의 설명되지 않은 되돌림
- 하나, 둘, 숨막힐 정도로 미개한.
- 하나, 둘, 콘텐츠 분쟁에 근거하여 다시 한 번 비난(이 IP가 증거를 제시하지 않았지만, 적어도 결국 그들이 옳다는 것이 증명된 경우 신용을 부여하는 것)
- 내가 조를 ANI에 보고하고 그들의 입장에 도전한 것을 생각하면 부자인 나를 프리덤조라고 거짓 비난한다.
이것은 지금 매우 매우 길기 때문에 나는 그것을 거기서 마무리하고 편집으로 돌아가서 위키들이 적합하다고 생각하는 대로 하게 할 것이다.나는 내가 동의하지 않는 사용자들을 포함하여 일반적인 편집을 통해 알게 된 다른 사용자들과의 상호작용과는 달리 이 사용자들을 중심으로 편집하는 것이 매우 좌절스럽다는 것을 알았다.이 IP는 상당한 것이다. 89.240.143.247 (대화) 14:37, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[하라
"알렉스프 차단..." = FLAT OUT LIE! - 관리자가 이 블록을 뒤집은 이유는... 확실히 하기 위해 ELF AND Every DEY가 편집 전쟁과 편향 푸싱에 대해 무기한 블록을 받지 않기 위해 ip 주소를 변경하는 (위 편집자)가 있기 때문이다 - 이것들은 모두 가장 최근의 주소들이다.
89.240.143.247
92.10.182.248
2.28.13.202
92.10.177.190
92.10.188.218
92.10.184.187
내가 천 달러를 더 줄 수 있어!
그들이 모두 같은 양말이라는 것을 알기 위해 이것을 보아라.
https://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/2.28.13.202
https://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/92.10.182.248
https://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/89.240.143.247
그의 역사는 GAME THE SYSTEM에 정확히 같은 패턴을 따른다. 그가 다른 사람과 며칠 동안 싸워서 길을 찾을 수 없을 때, 그는 달려가 관리자한테 어떻게 다른 사람이 그렇게 나쁜지에 대해 울 것이다.
조사해봐라, 나는 그가 그의 행동을 감추기 위해 영구적으로 금지되고 채찍질 당하는 사용자라고 확신해!--2600:800:FF0E:1200:AD51:B4EE:9659:A29C (대화) 14:40, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 아주 오래된 땅이고, 인신공격이며, 내 정체를 감추기 위해 어떤 노력도 행해지고 있다는 개념은 웃기기도 하다.Jbhunley는 바로 이 게시판에서 불행히도 내 IP는 안정화될 수 없다고 말했다.89.240.143.247 (대화) 14:43, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 이 빠른 IP주소 회전양말이 당신에게 말해주는 모든 것은 그가 그것을 들여다보지 않고 당신에게 기대고 있는 속임수라는 것이다.--2600:8800:FF0E:1200:AD51:B4EE:9659:A29C (대화) 14:47, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- "FreedomJoe" = A A FLAT OUT LEI - 나는 이 양말을 한번도 비난한 적이 없는데, 그 양말은 그가 실제로 있는 것을 영구적으로 금지시켰다!--2600:8800:FF0E:1200:AD51:B4EE:9659:A29C (대화) 14:50, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 분명히 나는 양말 한 짝에 대해 예의 바르게 말할 필요가 없다 - 위키 자체의 규칙에 의해 금지된 사용자들의 양말 한 짝을 코멘트 없이 되돌릴 수 있다 - 사실, 이것은 말 그대로 위키 규칙을 위반하는 것이다. 왜냐하면 그렇게 하지 않는 것이 발견되었을 때 그들을 되돌리지 않는 것은 위키 규칙들을 위반하는 것이다. 왜냐하면 그렇게 하지 않기 때문이다 = 묵인 = 양말을 보조하는 것 또한 위키의 위반이다.규칙--2600:800:FF0E:1200:AD51:B4EE:9659:A29C (대화) 14:56, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- "FreedomJoe" = A A FLAT OUT LEI - 나는 이 양말을 한번도 비난한 적이 없는데, 그 양말은 그가 실제로 있는 것을 영구적으로 금지시켰다!--2600:8800:FF0E:1200:AD51:B4EE:9659:A29C (대화) 14:50, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집) ISP가 DHCP 리스 시간이 매우 짧으면 갱신할 때 연결되지 않으면 IP가 변경될 가능성이 높다고 말했다.하지만 네 주소가 네트워크 사이에 있다는 것은 좀 이상하다.모바일을 사용하십니까?나는 (밥더처럼) 일관된 태그를 추가하는 것도 좋다고 말했다.ID의 연속성을 위한 IP 또는 IP92.10 또는 기타).당신의 주소가 단순히 92.10.x.x.x가 아닌 네트워크 사이를 이동하기 때문에 자신을 긍정적으로 확인하는 것은 특히 중요하다.어쨌든, 이 시점에서 그것은 내가 단지 계정을 등록하고 그것을 사용하는 것을 제안할 만큼 충분한 문제를 야기하고 있는 것 같다.그렇지 않다면 나는 당신이 항상 선의의 표시로 당신의 서명에 신분증을 첨부할 필요가 있다고 말할 것이다.Jbh Talk 15:33, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 완전히 이해하지는 못하지만 그것이 이상하다는 것을 알 만큼 그것을 따른다.내가 편집한 첫 번째 IP를 제외하고, 이것들은 모두 나의 홈 네트워크다.Wee 시그니처를 추가하는 것에 대해, 나는 그것이 보관되어 있기 때문에 당신에게 회신할 수 없었지만, 내 대답은 그것이 좋은 생각이라는 것이다, 나는 그것이 타당하다면 어떻게 해야 할지 확신이 서지 않을 뿐이다.마치...어디다 설명을 남길까, 아니면 그냥 시작해야 할까, 아니면...?고마워. 89.240.143.247 (대화) 15:36, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 계정을 만들고 로그인하십시오.굿데이 (토크) 15:39, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- • 계정을 만드는 것이 가장 좋은 방법이지만 단순히 추가하기를 원하지 않는 경우
-- NickName editing as ~~~~그냥 하는 대신에~~~~각 초소의 끝에다시 말하지만, 만약 당신이 많은 것을 편집할 거라면, 나는 당신이 계정을 만들 것을 정말로 권장한다.실제로 어떤 단점도 없고 그것은 당신과 프로젝트를 많은 번거로움을 덜어줄 것이다.Jbh Talk 16:57, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 그것을 완전히 이해하지는 못하지만 그것이 이상하다는 것을 알 만큼 그것을 따른다.내가 편집한 첫 번째 IP를 제외하고, 이것들은 모두 나의 홈 네트워크다.Wee 시그니처를 추가하는 것에 대해, 나는 그것이 보관되어 있기 때문에 당신에게 회신할 수 없었지만, 내 대답은 그것이 좋은 생각이라는 것이다, 나는 그것이 타당하다면 어떻게 해야 할지 확신이 서지 않을 뿐이다.마치...어디다 설명을 남길까, 아니면 그냥 시작해야 할까, 아니면...?고마워. 89.240.143.247 (대화) 15:36, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 이 빠른 IP주소 회전양말이 당신에게 말해주는 모든 것은 그가 그것을 들여다보지 않고 당신에게 기대고 있는 속임수라는 것이다.--2600:8800:FF0E:1200:AD51:B4EE:9659:A29C (대화) 14:47, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 우리 모두 알다시피, 너희 둘은 같은 개인일 거야. 그리고 이건 모두 만우절 장난이야.둘 다 계정을 만들고 등록해야 한다.굿데이 (토크) 15:28, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- 정확히 어떻게 내가 아리조나로 가서 스코틀랜드에서 동시에 편집하는 IP를 입수할 수 있을까? 89.240.143.247 (대화) 15:31, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
- @89.240.143.247: 나를 삭푸펫이라고 부르는 저 IP는 가짜 뉴스다.나는 관계가 없다.—러블리걸7톡 16:01, 2018년 4월 1일 (UTC)[
사이드 이슈 |
|---|
그냥 내려주면 안 돼?!89.240이면...가입하고 싶지 않다. 그것은 전적으로 그들의 선택이다.편집자가 IP로 편집하는 것을 금지하려면 RFC를 시작하십시오.이 모든 호킹은 빛보다 더 많은 열을 발생시키기 시작하고 있다. 그 사이에 IP 2600의 동작은...여전히 옷을 입지 않고 있다.–FlyingAce✈hello 02:08, 2018년 4월 2일 (UTC)[ |
FlyingCace에 의한 위의 마지막 문장 파편은 해트 밖에 나타나야 한다: "그동안 IP 2600에 의한 행동...여전히 옷을 입지 않고 있다"고 말했다.나는 또한 그 응답이 도용되었기 때문에 굿데이가 "계정 & 레지스터를 만들라"고 명령한 세 번 언급된 명령도 제안이 아닌 요구를 분명히 하는 것이 여기에 도용되어야 한다고 말하고 싶다.2600:800:800:FF0E:1200:AD51:B4EE:9659:A29C는 여기서 회답되지 않았고 약 89.240.143.247의 미등록 상태로 인한 불손한 감정으로 인해 다루어지고 있지 않은 답변을 해야 할 경우가 있다.86.17.222.157 (대화) 19:22, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
- 최근 편집된 것들은 계속 비실비실하며, 지금 나를 스토킹하고 있다.하나, 둘, 셋, 넷언제까지 이런 일이 계속되어야 하는가?WP의 위반 사항:WAR, WP:소유, WP:Civil, WP:RIVEXP, 그리고 WP:소통이 필수적이다. -- BobThe92.29.29.149 (대화) 21:49, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)로 IP 편집[
WP:BLP 편집전 존 폴 피오렌티노
안녕, 모두. 이 페이지는 나보다 훨씬 더 경험이 많은 안구를 사용할 수 있어.페이지 역사는 명예훼손이라는 단어가 무시무시하게 던져지는 등 느리지만 끈질긴 IP 편집 전쟁을 보여준다. -- 밥더IP 편집 92.29.29.149 (대화) 23:54, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
- 지난 2주 정도 동안 모든 편집자에게 통보했는데, 더 멀리 돌아가야 할지 모르겠어.더 많은 역사적인 편집자들이 그만뒀다고 합리적으로 추론할 수 있기 때문이다. - 밥 더IP 편집 92.29.29.149 (대화) 23:57, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
어바인의 IP와 장르의 전쟁
오늘 또 다른 어바인 IP는 장르 전쟁: 스페셜:기여금/2600:8802:1301:5900:3183:BC15:FED0:E82B.IP는 범위의 일부, Special:기여/2600:8802:1301:5900:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0/52, 최근 두 달 동안 장르 싸움에 전념하고 있다.이 사람에 대한 레인지 블록을 얻을 수 있을까?Binksternet (talk) 00:20, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
오피셜 나스루크
| 보고된 사용자는 참조되지 않은 콘텐츠가 반복적으로 추가되어 일주일 동안 차단되었다.IP는 4월 4일(사용자에게 블록이 적용되기 전) 이후로 편집이 되지 않아, 그 변화가 없는 한 조치가 필요하다고 느끼지 않는다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 4월 6일 12시 25분 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
아델 팬이 다시 등장(이전 토론 참조), 이제 사용자 계정을 갖게 됐다.누가 좀 봐줄래?폴(토크) 20:57, 2018년 4월 5일(UTC)이다[하라
- 105.153.38.4 (토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)가 최근 며칠 동안 <사랑에 취한>에 대해 비슷한 활동을 벌였다고 말하려고 고개를 들고 있을 뿐이다.폴(토크) 23:04, 2018년 4월 5일(UTC)이다[하라
CJ 4DPLEX GLOBAL 글로벌 금지 촉구
CJ 4D 플렉스는 4DX 포맷의 배후에 있는 회사다.CJ 4DPLEX GLOBAL이라는 계정은 영어 위키백과에서 4DX 기사를 여러 번 편집했고, 다른 프로젝트에서는 이와 동등한 기사를 편집했다.나는 이것이 WP에 위배된다고 믿는다.COI(및 기타 Wikimedia 프로젝트의 유사한 규칙).당신은 럭소를 보고 싶을지도 모른다.CJ 4DPLEX GLOBAL이 아이디어를 얻으십시오.JSH-alive/talk/cont/mail 06:53, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 사용자가 2015년 이후로 편집을 하지 않고 있다.나이트퓨리 14:36, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
도와줘!!
캔자스 제이호크스 남자 농구 기사 IP 어드레스 76.92.195.32와 97.91.152.132에서 동일인으로부터 양말 인형을 다뤄왔다.나는 사용자 대화:76.92.195.32로 어제 도착했다.나는 이 사람과 일주일 동안 싸우고 있는데 97.91.152.132로 시작되었고, 나는 그 대화 페이지의 비파괴적 편집에 대해 경고했고, 그들은 내가 언급했던 다른 IP를 사용하기 시작했다.그 대화 페이지에 손을 뻗은 후에 그들은 다른 대화 페이지로 바꿨다.또한, 그들은 NCAA 토너먼트가 실제로 1978년에 시작되었을 때 1977년에 팀을 시딩하기 시작했다고 주장하는 사실상의 오류를 소개하고 있다.페이지가 보호되지 않으면 두 IP의 니즈가 차단된다.편집전쟁으로 차단되는 것을 막기 위해 당분간 IP 버전을 기사에 남겨두겠다.IP는 나에게 부당한 경고까지 주기로 했다.--Rockchalk717 23:53, 2018년 4월 3일 (UTC)[
- 너무 무리한 부탁이 아니라면 이 문제에 대해 도움을 주고 싶다.--Rockchalk717 04:05, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Rockchalk717:IP는 기사토크 페이지를 이용했지? --NeilNtalk to me 13:05, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- 닐N, 맞아, 기사톡 페이지를 열어야 했어가짜 양말 꼭두각시 주장 외에도 록찰크717, 음, '잘'로 인해 다른 사람들이 사용하는 IP 페이지에 경고가 있는 것으로 보인다.이례로, 나는 '모든' 팀(현재는 1978년의 실험적인 'Q'와 'L' 분할 시딩이 아니라)의 시딩이 1979년에 시작되었다고 일관되게 지적해 왔다.그렇다면 왜 록찰크717은 편집 이력이 명백히 그렇지 않다는 것을 보여주는데 "1977"이라고 말하는 것일까?그의 고압적인 접근법(허위 주장, 편집 코멘트의 품행, IP를 단순히 사물을 다르게 보고 그가 소수라는 이유로 차단하려는 양말 인형처럼 함께 뭉쳐보려고 하는 것)과 결합한 편집량과 시간은 고무적이지 않다.나는 Rockchalk717에 대한 그의 다소 우스꽝스러운 경고를 거울로 삼았다.나는 그의 자유시간을 따라갈 수 없고, 속담처럼 "돼지로 논쟁"하는 내 것을 낭비할 기분이 아니며, 내 역사에서 알 수 있듯이 참고문헌을 개선하려고 할 뿐이다. 76.92.195.32 (대화) 23:48, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Rockchalk717:IP는 기사토크 페이지를 이용했지? --NeilNtalk to me 13:05, 2018년 4월 4일 (UTC)[
법적위협
| 법적 위협을 차단하고 나서 몇 분 뒤 전 세계적으로 계정이 잠겼다.--Bbb23 (대화) 14:36, 2018년 4월 7일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
CoopDETATT(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 법적 위협을 발령했다.여기 봐.클루스케 (대화) 13:04, 2018년 4월 7일 (UTC)[
Coop에서 온 노트디타트(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자·블록 로그) : 이것은 법적 위협이 아니다.나는 InfoWars에게 그들의 회사와 관련된 법 위반의 가능성을 알려주었다.각주를 추가한 사람은 누구나 가짜 뉴스 소스를 사용하여 회사의 잘못된 행위를 부당하게 고발했다.위키피디아는 정치적 동기를 가진 사용자들에 의해 조작되어서는 안 되는 훌륭한 도구인 만큼 나는 주의를 주고 있다.
세인트 제임스 궁전
65.93.93.1987(토크 · 기여)은 이미지 링크를 깨뜨리고 URL을 파괴하며 궁궐 이름에서 단자 s를 삭제했는데, 나는 그들의 토크 페이지에 공식 명칭에 s가 포함되어 있고, 끝에 s가 있어야 한다고 지적했다.위키백과 참조:Style#Assessives 및 Official 웹 사이트 설명서.
비록 편집이 분명히 도움이 되지 않지만, 위키백과의 3번 지점 아래에서 "명확한 파괴 행위"로 간주되는 것은 확실하지 않다.워링# 편집면책, 그래서 내가 직접 고칠 수 없다.누가 좀 도와주시겠습니까?고마워요.셀리아 홈포드 (대화) 2018년 4월 6일 (UTC 15:10,
조나단 A 존스 (대화) 15:28, 2018년 4월 6일 (UTC) 완료[
- 사실 나는 3RR을 막았다가 다시 막았다.그들은 위반하지 않았다.아마도 그것은 파괴적인 블록이 되어야 하지만 3RR에 대한 나의 블록은 사실 틀렸다.캔터베리 테일톡 15:30, 2018년 4월 6일 (UTC)[
의심스러운 POINT
지난 몇 주 동안, IP를 사용하는 특정 사용자는 동료 편집자들과 함께 어떤 파괴적인 행동을 해 왔다.A라는 이름의 이 사용자. 일반적으로 케이트키스 음포툴리스는 그리스 마케도니아 논란과 관련해 일부 심각한 POINT에 특히 관여하고 있다.어떠한 합의도, 이전의 논의도 없이, 예를 들어, 그의 편집사에서 볼 수 있듯이, "그리스"라는 용어를 "마세도니아"와 관련된 모든 기사에 넣는 것과 같이, 그는 부정확하고 수정되지 않은 에디팅을 해 왔다.그는 나와 다른 사용자들로부터 이 행동을 멈추라는 지시를 받았지만, 그는 하지 않았고 심지어 그의 토크 페이지에 있는 모든 경고들을 삭제했다.그것은 단지 그가 나를 '슬래브(slav)'라고 부르면서 이름 부르기에 의존하기 전까지는, 그리고 또 다른 경우에는, 그가 어디서 왔어야 하는지에 근거한 사용자의 진실성에 의문을 제기하기 전까지는, 일종의 파괴적인 편집의 사례일 수도 있다.
클리어리는 의제를 갖고 있고 위키피디아(wikipida)를 이용해 홍보와 방어를 하고 있는 것이 눈에 띈다(WP의 확실한 경우:옹호.여러 사용자의 경고를 무시하고 파괴적 편집에 관여하며 다른 IP를 반달리즘에 이용하고, 자신과 의견이 다르거나 기사의 내용을 먼저 논의하고자 하는 일반 사용자들을 욕하고 무례하게 하는 POINT를 하고 있다.그는 여러 차례 경고를 받았고 심지어 양말 인형극으로 고소당하기도 했지만, 모든 것과 모든 사람을 무시하기로 선택했다.나는 이 사건을 여기로 가져오라는 지시를 받았으니, 여기 있다.콜츠팬 (대화) 13:27, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
- 발칸 주제에 대한 임의제재의 존재를 통보했다. --15:20, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)
- SerkOfVulcan, 모욕과 파괴적인 편집은?그게 계속 될 수 밖에 없어?게다가, 그는 그의 토크 페이지를 지우고 심지어 내가 그에게 이 토론에 대해 그에게 알려준 메시지를 삭제했다.이것은 불신의 표시로 해석될 수 있다고 생각한다.콜츠팬 (대화) 15:37, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
- 콜츠팬이 유서톡 페이지에서 메시지를 지우는 것은 그것이 읽혔다는 것을 인정하는 것으로 간주된다.그것은 눈에 띄지 않아도 된다.그들은 파괴적인 편집에 대해 재량적 제재를 가할 수 있다는 통보를 받았다. - 공이 지금 코트에 있다. --SrekOfVulcan (대화) 15:43, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
- SerkOfVulcan, 모욕과 파괴적인 편집은?그게 계속 될 수 밖에 없어?게다가, 그는 그의 토크 페이지를 지우고 심지어 내가 그에게 이 토론에 대해 그에게 알려준 메시지를 삭제했다.이것은 불신의 표시로 해석될 수 있다고 생각한다.콜츠팬 (대화) 15:37, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
IP
124.106.140.81 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) – vandalism but clearly states they are using their name in the edit, please remove the edit from history of page for user's protection, see: 1 Waddie96 (talk) 15:23, 5 April 2018 (UTC) Moved from AVI as probably more appropriate 여기[
미완성 가든 버라이어티 중단, --NeilN 17:43, 2018년 4월 5일(UTC) revdel 필요 없음[
악샤이카담스웨그
AkshayKadamSwag(토크 · 기여)는 저작권이 있는 로고를 업로드하고 CC/GFDL 라이선싱으로 '자체 제작'이라고 태그를 붙이는 일이 반복되고 있다.이들 중 상당수는 이미 WP에 있는 이미지의 복제품이다.나는 그들에게 멈추라고 요청했지만, CIR/IDHT 문제가 있는 것 같다.조치를 취해주겠나?고마워, Nzd (대화) 17:30, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
- 동의한다. 그는 당신으로부터 두 가지 경고를 받았다. 다른 사람들은 경고를 보시오. 하나는 3월 26일에, 두번째는 3월 30일에.이 두 가지 모두 아무런 주의를 기울이지 않고, 그는 이 사진들을 자신의 작품이라고 주장하며 무료가 아닌 사진들을 계속해서 업로드하고 있다.@AkshayKadamSwag: 이 토론에 참여하십시오.여기서 응답하지 않고 다른 곳에서 계속 편집하는 것은 도움이 되지 않을 것이다. --Hammersoft (대화) 17:45, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
- 토크페이지로 자기소개를 할 때까지 차단된다. --닐N 17:50, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
라즈라히
Rajrajh는 지금 많은 경고를 받았으나, [34] 여전히 게임 WP:3RR, [35][36][37][38][39][40]로 호족과의 전쟁을 편집하고 있으며, 대화 페이지에는 참여하지 않는다.[41] Capitals00 (talk) 14:20, 2018년 4월 5일 (UTC)[
사용자:Nixon Now POV Pushing at Doug Ford Jr.
더그 포드 주니어는 최근 온타리오 진보 보수당의 당수로 선출된 캐나다의 양극화 정치인이다.이후 그의 글은 그에 대한 미지근한 정보를 최소화하고자 하는 사람들과 그에 대한 정보를 최대한 활용하고자 하는 사람들 사이에서 많은 관심을 끌었다.
"최대 사용자" 중 가장 활성화된 사용자:닉슨 나우그들은 특정 정보의 포함이나 제시, 특히 (a) 포드가 한때 해시시시 딜러였다는 주장, (b) 포드가 한 반체제 발언을 했다는 주장 등을 놓고 편집전을 벌여왔다.
해시쉬 딜링과 관련하여 오픈 RfC(Talk:더그 포드 주니어#댓글 요청 : 글로브·메일 수사보고서) 혐의에 대해 뭔가 포함돼야 한다는 공감대가 강하게 형성됐지만 혐의가 성립되지 않았다는 점을 분명히 하고 포드는 혐의를 계속 부인하고 있다.Nixon Now는 RfC의 합의를 넘어 WP를 위반하여 이러한 주장을 부각시키기 위해 수많은 시도를 해왔다.BLP(다음 포함):
- 그것을 "초기 생활" 섹션에 두드러지게 놓았는데, 거기서 그것은 주장보다는 사실임을 암시하는 부분을 거의 완전히 지배했다.이것은 여러 차례[42][43] 제거되었다.
- highlighting the one-paragraph incident via a subsection header in violation of the spirit of the RfC consensus and WP:WEIGHT—this numerous times after being reverted: [44][45][46][47]
- In response to concerns that NN had split the "Municipal politics" section into far too many short, one-paragraph subsections, NN split the "Allegations of hashish dealing in the 1980s" into two paragraphs at an arbitrary point to give the section the appearance of more substance.
- Nixon Now opened Doug Ford Jr.#RFC: Hashish dealing subsection and heading, which as of now is unanimous (minus Nixon Now themself) against having a subsection header, yet Nixon Now continues to battle against consensus to keep the subsection header in place—WP:BLP calls for disputed edits to reach a consensus before they can be included, not the reverse.
With regard to alleged antisemitic comments—they are about a particular quote Ford made in response to allegations that his brother, Rob Ford, had used a number of racist epithets (for Jews and other ethnicities). I has been questioned whether the quote—especially when quoted at length—even belongs in the article or whether it is simply WP:COATRACKing anything to make Ford look bad. Nixon Now has responded to concerns that their inclusion is WP:UNDUE at Talk:Doug Ford Jr.#Antisemitic comment by brother by expanding the text there, and again has editwarred to keep it in: [48][49][50][51]. Again, WP:BLP calls for disputed edits to reach a consensus before they can be included, not the reverse.
More editwarring:
- removing text in which a political rival, Jagmeet Singh, made positive comments about Ford: [52][53][54][55].
- to keep in a bit about a John Oliver comment: [56] [57][58]
Nixon Now is also prolific on the talk page, but not in a cooperative spirit—refusing to acknowledge consensus and casting aspersions on those they disagree with—going as far as to insuate I've been sockpuppetting/meatpuppetting (offering no sort of evidence) and making false accusations that I've been "blocked a total of six times for personal attacks" (which he downgraded to "five times", which is still a lie). They make several accusations of other editors attempting to "bury" information by not highlighting or positioning it as Nixon Now would have it; "beating a dead horse" to concince opponents to stop discussing; and a lot of WP:IDHT posturing about there being "no consensus" for including/excluding information, when the consensus is clear but not worded in a specific way. There's little in the way of "discussion" coming from Nixon Now—mostly stonewalling, WP:IDHT, and insinuations against those whom they disagree with.
Nixon Now has tried to FUD their way out of an editwarring report I filed with the following comment: "You've consistently edited against consensus, pushing your own POV, and been obstructive and rude in your comments, continually engaged in personal attacks, and been uncivil even to the point of swearing."—notice there are no diffs or any other sort of evidence for any of this except the fact that I said "fucking" in exasperation when he accused me of having opposed in an RfC I actually supported. Notice they can't even spell out what POV I'm supposedly pushing (am I pro-Ford? anti-Ford? or is NPOV itself my insidious agenda?).
Nixon Now employs these muddy-the-water tactics throught these discussions, which, combined with the editwarring, make progress impossible. You'll see these tactics on display in their response to this report.
I'm at wit's end. Nixon Now shows no respect for collaboration or consensus and has taken WP:OWNership over the Doug Ford Jr. article to push a predominantly negative view of the subject. When even as clear a consensus as what has been arrived at at Doug Ford Jr.#RFC: Hashish dealing subsection and heading doesn't stop NN from editwarring to keep that header, how can this be dealt with? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:36, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- UPDATE: I had totally forgotten about this edit, in which Nixon Now actually restored a description of Ford as a "former drug dealer" in the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario leadership election, 2018 article, so that his description read:
- "Doug Ford, 57, a businessman, a former drug dealer, who is currently seeking the PC nomination in Etobicoke North for the upcoming June 2018 Provincial election."
- This is about as serious a breach of WP:BLP and WP:WEIGHT as you can get. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 22:05, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- It was sourced and several other editors supported inclusion. Consensus was against it so it was removed so frankly the history of that article disproved your OWN claims. If it was the breach you suggest you a) wouldn't have forgotten about it b) wouldn't fail to bring it up for more than two months. Nixon Now (talk) 22:25, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- "It was sourced"—and there we have it, folks. If it's sourced, then screw WP:BLP and WP:WEIGHT—but only if it fits NN's POV (NN's been removing plenty of sourced material that doesn't fit their POV). This is the problem we have to do with. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:29, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- You are parsing the first three words of my comment and ignoring the rest of it, the part that refuted your claim of OWN or even POV-pushing. That's fairly typical of your arguments. In fact, whether or not to include reference to Ford's past drug dealing was such a non-dispute that it wasnt even raised at Talk:Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario leadership election, 2018 by you, me or anyone else so your sudden outrage, two months later, while full of high school theatrics, is unconvincing. Nixon Now (talk) 22:37, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- It was sourced and several other editors supported inclusion. Consensus was against it so it was removed so frankly the history of that article disproved your OWN claims. If it was the breach you suggest you a) wouldn't have forgotten about it b) wouldn't fail to bring it up for more than two months. Nixon Now (talk) 22:25, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- REPLY Please see Talk: Doug Ford Jr. in which the consensus is against CT on several matters he raises above such as the antisemitism issue and the John Oliver issue. It is instructive that despite the specious claim of POV pushing, CT does not actually quote the passages in question from the article which he is claiming are POV. They are all neutrally worded, well-sourced and have been in the article for years until early this year when Doug Ford announced his candidacy for the PC Party of Ontario, after which some editors, including banned editor User:Soulspinr and various socks and IPs attempted to remove the material.
- CT neglects to state that there has been a lot of editing of the article over the past few months by IPs and socks and suspected socks of banned user User:Soulspinr and that this is a factor in occasional edit warring. He also omits the fact that a number of the reversions in areas he's complaining about have been carried out by other editors (see the edit history of Doug Ford Jr..) He is misrepresenting the history of the article by implying it's a consensus of editors against me when in fact he has usually been in the minority and the edits restoring neutrally worded sourced material has been carried out by a large number of editors against one or two people attempting to censor this article on a public figure.
- In addition to the talk page discussion, and the edit warring notice board, CT is also participating vigorously at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Doug_Ford_Jr.;_anti_semitic_comment_by_Subject's_brother and opened this complaint at ANI. User:Curly Turkey is engaging in WP:FORUMSHOPping. Nixon Now (talk) 10:50, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- As he alluded to, CT does have a long history of being blocked for incivility. I believe the temperment that led to those blocks has played a negative role in his recent exchanges and had exacerbated the situation. Nixon Now (talk) 12:25, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Notice the lack of diffs or other forms of substantiation, and notice how virtually nothing he has written has contradicted any of the evidence I've provided, but only deflected from it. Expect more of the same, folks. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 12:41, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- As he alluded to, CT does have a long history of being blocked for incivility. I believe the temperment that led to those blocks has played a negative role in his recent exchanges and had exacerbated the situation. Nixon Now (talk) 12:25, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Note to admins: I was trying to track down where that bit about Jagmeet Singh had been removed by myself some time before this present incident. Admins can view it here; it is revdeleted for being copied from the source, and the IP that added it in January was a sock of Soulspinr who some of you might know better as Ontario Teacher BFA BEd. This new close paraphrase from the same source by another IP in Toronto with the same attention span and area of focus is very likely the same user, but I consider myself WP:INVOLVED here.
- As for the antisemitic slur incident, it's really a content dispute and should be settled on the article's talk page. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:25, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ivanvector: most of the reverts were of legitimate editors, often of material currently under discussion—and how does this demonstrate good faith on NN's part? How can we have a legitimate discusion with someone who would make an edit like that? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:12, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, IP now blocked. --NeilN talk to me 16:18, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
This complaint flows out of a 3RR complaint CT filed against me. As I suspected User:Katy Park, the reversion of whose edits User:Curly Turkey objected to, has been confirmed to be a sockpuppet. I expect the IP who was reverted will soon be confirmed as a sockpuppet as well. Nixon Now (talk) 15:52, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- This complaint does not flow out of a 3RR complaint, though the editwarring is a part of the larger WP:OWNership issue, and a great many of the reverts are of legitimate editors such as myself and Nocturnalnow. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:58, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
I think that User:Curly Turkey has the edit history to back up what he is saying, and here is an example of what he is talking about. I also agree 100% with Nixon Now's suggestion above that, although time consuming, for sure, it's better if people just read the talk page and look over the past few weeks of article edits in context. I believe that NixonNow, who has spent a lot of time editing this Blp, truly believes strongly that he is within policy and that the various negative content belongs in the Blp in a substantive way in order to correctly represent the entirety of the Subject's life, however, putting in a negative heading with no consensus and then quickly setting uo a Rfc and claiming the Rfc keeps that heading in there for 30 days, (its been a week so far), even though the RFC is 9-1, the 1 being NixonNow, against using the heading, seems to me to be a bit overbearing (full disclosure, I also have a history of being too pushy). Ivanvector has done a great job of "herding cats" at the Blp and fortunately, NixonNow cooperates fully with Ivan as far as I can tell, but otoh, its entirely up to Ivan when/if he wants to step in as he did constructively at the time of the edit I refer to above. The Blp itself is pretty good, imo, in fact not long afo I was suggesting it might be FA material (shows my shortcoming in things like FA selection, apparently). NixonNow is reaaaaaly stubborn, but so am I so I have lots of empathy and relate well to his determination to do what he thinks id best for the Blp. But the thing with the heading was not cool, even if not meant to be such an "OWN" type move. I think Ivan can work with NixonNow to fix these matters and that maybe an actual mentorship type arrangement can be informally set up between them, if they both are willing, that would be the ideal solution, in my opinion. Win, win for all the editors and the Blp. Nocturnalnow (talk) 15:57, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Other editors have also reverted attempts to remove the subheadings while the RFC is underway.[60] Singling me out for doing this or claiming it's somehow aberrant to do so is specious. Nixon Now (talk) 16:46, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Numerous editors (User:Nocturnal Now, and myself before the RfC) have removed the subheadings because opposition to them is literally unanimous. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:20, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Curly Turkey's belligerent attitude to editors can be seen here[61] where in short order, in separate comments, he tells an editor "The flying fuck is this shit?", "You admitted to it yourself. Now fuck off" and "just fuck off with the trolling horseshit". Nixon Now (talk) 16:54, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Otoh, he has been very gentle and respectful when dealing with you or me, you must admit. Nocturnalnow (talk) 18:58, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- No, he's sworn at me too[62], refused to AGF, and has been shopping around specious complaints. If that's "gentle" I feel sorry for the editors he's harsh with. Nixon Now (talk) 19:37, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- I swear a lot, but that is neither actionable nor relevant to your persistent POV-pushing or WP:OWNership of the article. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:27, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Your swearing is abusive and a violation of Wikipedia:Civility and it is actionable so govern yourself accordingly. Nixon Now (talk) 23:37, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- "abusive"? Here's the complete quote: Nixon Now: "a passage you'd like to remove"—what the fuck is this?! I voted include in the fucking RfC!!!. If "swearing is abusive and a violation of Wikipedia:Civility", then here's your chance to have me blocked: fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. NeilN, Ivanvector: please block me now if this is true. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:53, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Your swearing is abusive and a violation of Wikipedia:Civility and it is actionable so govern yourself accordingly. Nixon Now (talk) 23:37, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- I swear a lot, but that is neither actionable nor relevant to your persistent POV-pushing or WP:OWNership of the article. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:27, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- No, he's sworn at me too[62], refused to AGF, and has been shopping around specious complaints. If that's "gentle" I feel sorry for the editors he's harsh with. Nixon Now (talk) 19:37, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
CurlyTurkey falsely claims that I placed the Ford drug dealing allegations "prominently in the "Early life" section,] where it almost entirely dominated the section implying it was fact rather than allegation." In fact, the allegation had been there for years, see for example[63] I simply restored it when POV editors, most of whom have been banned, attempted to censor the material from the article since around January 2018 when Ford re-entered politics. I have said this several times yet CT persists in repeating the myth that I am the author of the drug allegation passage. Nixon Now (talk) 20:44, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
CT also resents my saying that removing subheadings would be effectively burying the allegations in a large wall of text when WP policy prefers the use of section headings. As I said on the talk page:
- I said it appears to be buried because that is the effect. Whether or not that is your intention is irrelevant. I'm not speaking of your motives, simply of the outcome. I was mistaken in assuming you had previously opposed inclusion of the drug material in the article and I apologise for that.[64]
Note as well that I apologized for assuming CT had earlier opposed inclusion of the drug allegations at all. He has yet to apologise to me for any of his personal attacks or incorrect allegations. Nixon Now (talk) 21:15, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have nothing to apologize for. My only allegations—that you a pushing a POV, will editwar to support your POV, and are stonewalling discussion—all stand. I haven't seen you retract any of your other allegations against me—that I'm pushing some unnamed POV, that I'm some sock/meatpuppet of Katy, that I've personally attacked you, that I've been "obstructive", etc. But what really matters is your WP:OWNership of the article. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:47, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Perhaps best we lock up the page till they all figure out what to do.....I see will still have reverts all over.--Moxy (talk) 20:55, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Moxy: perhaps, but only after the removal of disputed material first, per WP:BLP.
- Then it should be locked to the state it was back in January prior to the descent of a sockpuppet army - save for later sections on Ford winning the leadership etc. Nixon Now (talk) 22:07, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- It should absolutely not be locked under a "Nixon Now-approved" version—it should be locked under a version in which disputed material has first been removed until consensu to add it back is formed on the talk page, per WP:BLP. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:15, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- semi-protection until the June 7 election would remove the socks and IP editors from the mix and allow legitimate discussion and editing to continue. Pending revisions has failed to stop sockpuppet editing. Nixon Now (talk) 23:08, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Semiprotection might help defend the article against socking, but the issues are not limited to socks. Most of the editors are legitimate, and you're reverting them, too—against clear talk page consensus, and on a WP:BLP no less. On top of that is your POV-pushing, which is the subject of this report. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:31, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Certainly not back to January, there is a lot of great non-disputed content over the past 2 months covering the Leadership race and new content about the upcoming Ontario general election, 2018, so please leave the Provincial politics section as it is today and we can add more via admin. requests. Nocturnalnow (talk) 23:16, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Right—far too much legitimate material has been aded since Ford's election as party leader to revert the entire article, and we would have to be careful anything reverted to didn't violate WP:BLP or any of the consensuses reached already on the talk page. Reverting would cause far, far more problems than it could solve.
But we still have NN's WP:OWNership issues to deal with. Regardless of any other issues, progress won't be made until we do. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:25, 2 April 2018 (UTC)- So, I'd say remove all disputed content and go to either full or semi-protection until, as Nixon Now says, the election is over, at least. In terms of NN lets just all cool down for awhile and I think we can eventually all get along just fine. Nocturnalnow (talk) 23:31, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- There is a consensus for keeping the drug dealing allegations. Would you remove that? There appears to be consensus for the response to antisemitic comments? Would you remove that? It looks like you're trying to achieve here what you've failed to achieve through RFC, BLP discussion page, and talk page discussion. Nixon Now (talk) 23:35, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'd have all of it removed until their respective RfCs closed, and then have someone other than Nixon Now add the information in that has officially achieved consensus. NN's "Doug Ford is a former drug dealer" edit and intransigence over the subsectioning (etc) show that they cannot be trusted with sensitive material. Proposed wordings for the drug dealing allegations, etc, should be proposed on the Talk Page first, so they aren't open to "creative interpretation" by POV-pushers claiming to be working under "consensus". Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:46, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- So you would overturn consensus until some point in the future and impose your preferred version in the mean time. At least now we know the motivation for this ANI. This is a content dispute and doesn't belong here. Your ANI is an abuse of process. Nixon Now (talk) 23:54, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- And here you are accusing me of pushing some POV again, and yet still can't name that POV. Am I pro-Ford? Anti-Ford? Your very accusation is gibberish. Meanwhile, you continue to defend "Doug Ford is a businessman and former drug dealer ..." Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 00:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- CT did not say he would impose his version, more along the lines of an uninvolved person coming up with the right content and Ivanvector is perfect for that, if he's willing, imo, even if he's had some involvement. Nocturnalnow (talk) 03:32, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'd be fine with that, along with a WP:0RR restriction on Nixon Now in light of their continued defence of "Doug Ford, 57, a businessman, a former drug dealer, ..." Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:37, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- CT did not say he would impose his version, more along the lines of an uninvolved person coming up with the right content and Ivanvector is perfect for that, if he's willing, imo, even if he's had some involvement. Nocturnalnow (talk) 03:32, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- And here you are accusing me of pushing some POV again, and yet still can't name that POV. Am I pro-Ford? Anti-Ford? Your very accusation is gibberish. Meanwhile, you continue to defend "Doug Ford is a businessman and former drug dealer ..." Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 00:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- So you would overturn consensus until some point in the future and impose your preferred version in the mean time. At least now we know the motivation for this ANI. This is a content dispute and doesn't belong here. Your ANI is an abuse of process. Nixon Now (talk) 23:54, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'd have all of it removed until their respective RfCs closed, and then have someone other than Nixon Now add the information in that has officially achieved consensus. NN's "Doug Ford is a former drug dealer" edit and intransigence over the subsectioning (etc) show that they cannot be trusted with sensitive material. Proposed wordings for the drug dealing allegations, etc, should be proposed on the Talk Page first, so they aren't open to "creative interpretation" by POV-pushers claiming to be working under "consensus". Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:46, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- There is a consensus for keeping the drug dealing allegations. Would you remove that? There appears to be consensus for the response to antisemitic comments? Would you remove that? It looks like you're trying to achieve here what you've failed to achieve through RFC, BLP discussion page, and talk page discussion. Nixon Now (talk) 23:35, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- So, I'd say remove all disputed content and go to either full or semi-protection until, as Nixon Now says, the election is over, at least. In terms of NN lets just all cool down for awhile and I think we can eventually all get along just fine. Nocturnalnow (talk) 23:31, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Right—far too much legitimate material has been aded since Ford's election as party leader to revert the entire article, and we would have to be careful anything reverted to didn't violate WP:BLP or any of the consensuses reached already on the talk page. Reverting would cause far, far more problems than it could solve.
If the best User:Curly Turkey can do is try to make a mountain out of a more than two month old molehill of an edit in an entirely different article which was also done by other experienced editors before and after and which did not even raise a mention on the article's talk page - and rather than a "dispute" the disagreement was resolved amicably within the article by removing the reference (contrary to CT's claims that I violate WP:OWN) - then he really is straining hard. It looks like of the dozens of people who edit Doug Ford Jr. there are precisely two people who care about this ANI, Curly Turkey and his editing partner User:Nocturnalnow and even Nocturnalnow lacks commitment to this ANI saying " lets just all cool down for awhile and I think we can eventually all get along just fine." CT has been blowing a lot of smoke here but there's not even a flicker of actual fire. He has yet to actually specify any non-neutral wording in the Doug Ford Jr. article that he can attribute to me, the best he can do is point to another article entirely (where, in retrospect, WP voice should not have been used, rather "alleged by the Globe and Mail" should have been). Nixon Now (talk) 12:39, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Um ... scroll up and there's that mountain of diffs. A clear pattern of behaviour over several months that demonstrates bad faith and WP:OWNership issues that have brought the article to a standstill at your "preferred version", including that subsection heading for which there is a literal unanimous consensus against—and the fact that you continue to defend that "two-month-old edit" in light of the past several months' behaviour makes that edit very relevant to your unceasing behaviour here and now. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 12:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- You mean like the diff where Nocturnalnow "closed" an RFC and implemented an assessment of it even though he's an involved editor and is not allowed to close RFCs that he is involved with and didn't start? Your diffs are cherrypicked and out of context and I suggest you see my earlier responses. Nixon Now (talk) 13:36, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I agree this thread is more heat than light, and really nothing has been presented which warrants having been brought here in the first place. It's a content dispute, and for the most part it has been discussed remarkably civilly within the article's talk page (remarkably so because of the polarizing nature of the subject and the persistence of sockpuppets). Nixon Now has not been a disruptive influence on this article, notwithstanding the fact that they have reverted a persistent banned editor several times, reverts which are permitted by WP:3RRNO and WP:BANREVERT. Of the diffs Curly Turkey provided at ANEW, all but one were reverting this banned editor. There really is nothing here or on the talk page to justify Curly Turkey's persistent accusations of POV battling by Nixon Now; NN has
pushedsuggested some bold POV edits, but not to the extent of being unacceptably undue or obvious BLP vios, and when challenged he has joined discussion every single time, often starting the discussion. See for example: - There's surely nothing that justifies Nixon Now being referred to as "pushing a very anti-Ford agenda" or any of his edits as "a desperate attempt to smear the Fords". Perhaps Nixon Now should consider not reverting the banned editor when that editor returns to disrupt the article: although they are explicitly permitted to do so by policy there are several admins watching the article now. And perhaps Curly Turkey should consider discussing the article's content rather than repeatedly casting aspersions about other editors' motivations and running to admin noticeboards whenever someone doesn't agree with their opinion.
- If admins are going to do anything here, I suggest full protection to enforce discussion, which has been overwhelmingly productive in moving this article past its long-running stalemates. Distracting the productive discussions with these sideshows is not. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:29, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ivanvector, you have to be joking. How do you justify "Doug Ford, 57, a businessman, a former drug dealer, ..."? How do you justify that every edit NN has pushed has put Ford in a bad light, while every edit he insists on keeping out puts him in a positive light? How do you justify NN's insistence that edits under discussion that NN supports be kept in the article until discussion closes, but edits that NN opposes be kept in until discussion closes? What of WP:BLP, which mandates challenged material be kept out when challenged?
- I agree—full page protection is what is needed to enforce discussion and keep certain editors from forcing their version of "the truth" on the article. The disputed material needs to be removed first, per WP:BLP. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 22:31, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- In my view, and I suspect that of millions of people in Ontario across the political spectrum it is factual to say Ford is a former drug dealer given the credibility of the Globe and Mail report and I have always held that position when discussing the matter on the Doug Ford talk page. Am I insisting that the Doug Ford page state that? No, I'm not. Contrary to your claims I am not trying to impose my view on the article. I recognize that it is preferable not to put that in Wikipedia's "voice" and to state that these are allegations made in a Globe and Mail investigative report. However, if you want to ban anyone who thinks or says Ford is a former drug dealer from editing the article then you should also ban everyone who says he wasn't. Good luck with that. 23:04, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ivanvector: do you agree that this comment accurately reflects how I've characterized NN? Do you believe that "Doug Ford, 57, a businessman, a former drug dealer, ..." was NN honestly trying to be NPOV? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:12, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- The Globe and Mail is a credible source, so yes. But others disagree and I've engaged in discussion and compromised. What you seem to think is a (two month old) smoking gun actually disproves your case precisely because I haven't insisted on that wording and have compromised in the two months since that edit. Thank you for bringing it up. Nixon Now (talk) 23:17, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- So this is official—you defend that edit. This is why your editing needs to be restricted. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:22, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm amazed that you only ever seem to read the first four words of anything I say. Read my entire comment rather than parsing out the parts you don't like.Nixon Now (talk) 23:27, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- That you violate WP:BLP and then "allow" others to clean up your POV-pushing mess? Yes, that's what this whole report is about. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:30, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- You've failed to convince a single person of that, despite repeating the same thing over and over again, with the possible exception of Nocturnalnow (and even he seems less and less sure the more you talk). Have you actually listened to what anyone else here has said or do you stop reading after the fourth or fifth word? Have you considered that you might possibly be wrong or do you insist that you are always right and everyone else is wrong? Nixon Now (talk) 23:40, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- We have yet to have a single non-involved party examine the evidence, and more than one commenter agrees we need page protection to enforce discussion. Nobody suggests it needs to be protected from me, and nobody suggests the socks should engage in discussion (their talk-page comments have been struck). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:59, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Nocturnalnow can speak for himself. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:01, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I was one of those calling for full protection. You've twisted the call to mean something else - and you've been twisting and parsing things consistently so that's not a surprise. And Nocturnalnow has spoken, evidently you haven't read his comments in their entirety either. Nixon Now (talk) 00:07, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- You've failed to convince a single person of that, despite repeating the same thing over and over again, with the possible exception of Nocturnalnow (and even he seems less and less sure the more you talk). Have you actually listened to what anyone else here has said or do you stop reading after the fourth or fifth word? Have you considered that you might possibly be wrong or do you insist that you are always right and everyone else is wrong? Nixon Now (talk) 23:40, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- That you violate WP:BLP and then "allow" others to clean up your POV-pushing mess? Yes, that's what this whole report is about. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:30, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm amazed that you only ever seem to read the first four words of anything I say. Read my entire comment rather than parsing out the parts you don't like.Nixon Now (talk) 23:27, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- So this is official—you defend that edit. This is why your editing needs to be restricted. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:22, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- An editor suggests the article be locked. You throw a fit that it shouldn't be locked in its current state because somehow that's my version but now you claim the editor wanted it locked to protect it from me? Incredible. Nixon Now (talk) 00:13, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- It needs to be locked and all material currently under discussion needs to be removed per WP:BLP until consensus to keep it has been reached. That includes material I support inclusion of. If you're not pushing a POV, you should have no issue with that. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 00:38, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- There is an overwhelming 2:1 consensus to include the drug allegation material and yet you're arguing for removing the material while the article is indefinitely locked - likely until after the election. And you claim not to have a political agenda? Nixon Now (talk) 00:56, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- And I was a vigorous supporter of its inclusion. What's my agenda? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 01:32, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- But now you're saying any material "under discussion" should be removed. That would include the drug allegations since they are "under discussion" in an RFC. Nixon Now (talk) 01:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- That's right—so stop dodging like a coward: tell everyone what my "agenda" is. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:47, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- So that would mean that despite a 2:1 consensus for inclusion the drug allegations would disappear from the article, probably until after the June 7 elections or at least for much of the campaign, if your proposal was implemented. I don't think I have to tell anyone what your agenda is. You've just revealed it yourself. Nixon Now (talk) 01:51, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- RfCs run 30 days, and Doug Ford Jr.#Request for comment: Globe and Mail investigative report—(which I explicitly supported)—has been open since 12 March. Again—you keep dodging—what's my agenda? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 02:03, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Except that earlier in this discussion you said that after the RFCs close, wording should be proposed on the Talk page and then agreed upon until entering the article - a process which could easily be dragged out for 8 weeks, until after the election by dedicated political partisans. Your solution fits a partisan political agenda despite your protests to the contrary. Nixon Now (talk) 18:38, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- You're still pushing this shit? You've convinced literally nobody that I have any sort of political agenda—which you still can't even name. Meanwhile you've even managed to state your own bias again Ford. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:38, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Except that earlier in this discussion you said that after the RFCs close, wording should be proposed on the Talk page and then agreed upon until entering the article - a process which could easily be dragged out for 8 weeks, until after the election by dedicated political partisans. Your solution fits a partisan political agenda despite your protests to the contrary. Nixon Now (talk) 18:38, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- RfCs run 30 days, and Doug Ford Jr.#Request for comment: Globe and Mail investigative report—(which I explicitly supported)—has been open since 12 March. Again—you keep dodging—what's my agenda? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 02:03, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- But now you're saying any material "under discussion" should be removed. That would include the drug allegations since they are "under discussion" in an RFC. Nixon Now (talk) 01:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- And I was a vigorous supporter of its inclusion. What's my agenda? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 01:32, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- There is an overwhelming 2:1 consensus to include the drug allegation material and yet you're arguing for removing the material while the article is indefinitely locked - likely until after the election. And you claim not to have a political agenda? Nixon Now (talk) 00:56, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- It needs to be locked and all material currently under discussion needs to be removed per WP:BLP until consensus to keep it has been reached. That includes material I support inclusion of. If you're not pushing a POV, you should have no issue with that. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 00:38, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- The Globe and Mail is a credible source, so yes. But others disagree and I've engaged in discussion and compromised. What you seem to think is a (two month old) smoking gun actually disproves your case precisely because I haven't insisted on that wording and have compromised in the two months since that edit. Thank you for bringing it up. Nixon Now (talk) 23:17, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ivanvector: do you agree that this comment accurately reflects how I've characterized NN? Do you believe that "Doug Ford, 57, a businessman, a former drug dealer, ..." was NN honestly trying to be NPOV? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:12, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- In my view, and I suspect that of millions of people in Ontario across the political spectrum it is factual to say Ford is a former drug dealer given the credibility of the Globe and Mail report and I have always held that position when discussing the matter on the Doug Ford talk page. Am I insisting that the Doug Ford page state that? No, I'm not. Contrary to your claims I am not trying to impose my view on the article. I recognize that it is preferable not to put that in Wikipedia's "voice" and to state that these are allegations made in a Globe and Mail investigative report. However, if you want to ban anyone who thinks or says Ford is a former drug dealer from editing the article then you should also ban everyone who says he wasn't. Good luck with that. 23:04, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Could we get an uninvolved party to comment here?
Could we get someone who's not already involved in the talk page discussions to take a look at this stuff? That's in large part the point of bringing it to ANI in the first place. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:04, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Am I summarizing things correctly here? A newspaper published unsubstantiated allegations based on interviews with anonymous sources that the BLP subject sold hashish in the 1980s. The BLP subject denies the allegations, and there have been no criminal charges and no convictions. If that is reasonably accurate, then I believe that BLP policy requires that we keep this news gossip out of this BLP. Let the newspaper publish it but not Wikipedia. Cullen328Let's discuss it 01:57, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I'm afraid you're missing several crucial elements such as WP:WELLKNOWN. Please see the RFC at Talk:Doug Ford Jr.#Request for comment: Globe and Mail investigative report for a thorough discussion of the issue. Nixon Now (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Cullen328: That's the subject of the RfC open at Doug Ford Jr.#Request for comment: Globe and Mail investigative report, not this ANI report. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 02:04, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sure, this looks like a total mess and no one is going to want to touch it. It isn't clear what either of you want done, or what the right course of action would be. What is preferred over waiting for the RFC process to establish consensus on the points of dispute? Is anyone making edits contrary to a clear consensus? Prodegotalk 02:11, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would suggest that the best course would be for an uninvolved admin to close the two active RFCs at Talk:Doug Ford Jr. and interpret the results. Nixon Now (talk) 02:15, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Cullen328 - can you do one (or both) of these? I cannot immediately, but within 24 hours I can get to it. Prodegotalk 02:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Cullen328:, I have to smile at your immediate bafflement that such info is in the Blp at all. I took the anonymous allegations of hashish dealing (no charges or arrest, ever) completely out of the Blp when I first noticed it 2 months ago and it stayed out until a few weeks ago, but now we have several editors, including at least one admin.,Ivanvector who want the allegations in the BLP. Imo, this is a no-brainer direct conflict with the spirit of Blp policy, but others feel that Blp policy demands its inclusion. There have been Blp Noticeboard discussions and Rfcs galore, with several admins, like you, at various times, seeing the blatant inappropriateness that I do, but none stick with the issue long enough to get things settled. Now the absurdity, imo, has extended to fighting over allowing a headline for the alleged hashish dealing, with an RFC sentiment 8-2 against yet the heading remains in the article for 30 days as demanded by the initiator of the RFC. Cullen328, please take some bold action here, if you can. Nocturnalnow (talk) 15:14, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm sorry Nocturnalnow but your comments are highly misleading. It's false to say the drug allegations "stayed out until a few weeks ago". In fact, they were in the article for years, since 2013[65] and were still in the article as late as December 2017[66], and only disappeared in January around the time Ford announced his candidacy for the PC Party leadership and were kept out due to edit-warring by a now banned editor and their sockpuppets. To suggest, as you do above, that these allegations are a recent addition to the article is simply false. You are also cherrypicking policy and are completely ignoring WP:WELLKNOWN which is a component of BLP. Nixon Now (talk) 18:24, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Cullen328:, I have to smile at your immediate bafflement that such info is in the Blp at all. I took the anonymous allegations of hashish dealing (no charges or arrest, ever) completely out of the Blp when I first noticed it 2 months ago and it stayed out until a few weeks ago, but now we have several editors, including at least one admin.,Ivanvector who want the allegations in the BLP. Imo, this is a no-brainer direct conflict with the spirit of Blp policy, but others feel that Blp policy demands its inclusion. There have been Blp Noticeboard discussions and Rfcs galore, with several admins, like you, at various times, seeing the blatant inappropriateness that I do, but none stick with the issue long enough to get things settled. Now the absurdity, imo, has extended to fighting over allowing a headline for the alleged hashish dealing, with an RFC sentiment 8-2 against yet the heading remains in the article for 30 days as demanded by the initiator of the RFC. Cullen328, please take some bold action here, if you can. Nocturnalnow (talk) 15:14, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Cullen328 - can you do one (or both) of these? I cannot immediately, but within 24 hours I can get to it. Prodegotalk 02:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Prodego: What I'd like to see done is something to ensure Nixon Now
- adheres to WP:BLP, so:
- no edits like this, and
- challenged material is removed from BLPs until consensus to re-add is achieved
- adheres to WP:CONSENSUS
- ceases from editwarring (not just strictly WP:3RR, which is too easy to game).
- adheres to WP:BLP, so:
- Between now and the June election (and quite likely beyond), this BLP will be very active, and the polarizing nature of the subject means there will be POV pushers left and right (probably peaking in the month leading up to the election). The page itself should probably be locked down, which looks like where things are headed already. All disputed material that has not yet reached consensus for inclusion should be removed until their respective RfCs have closed—the article should not be protected at one POV's "preferred version", which is what will happen if it is locked down right now. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:33, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would suggest that the best course would be for an uninvolved admin to close the two active RFCs at Talk:Doug Ford Jr. and interpret the results. Nixon Now (talk) 02:15, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sure, this looks like a total mess and no one is going to want to touch it. It isn't clear what either of you want done, or what the right course of action would be. What is preferred over waiting for the RFC process to establish consensus on the points of dispute? Is anyone making edits contrary to a clear consensus? Prodegotalk 02:11, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- User talk:Curly Turkey has an unhealthy fixation with me. While we're engaging in fantasy wish lists it would be helpful if he were placed on a strict civility patrol as well as banned from the article and banned from Wikipedia for 48 hours the next time he uses rude language (ie swearing) in a discussion. Or we could ask people to focus on the article rather than personalities and have uninvolved admins weigh in on the remaining content disputes. Nixon Now (talk) 10:27, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Mmm. That's very good advice, which you should follow yourself. Fish+Karate 10:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm quite happy to and despite there being a number of editors with conflicting views, CT is the only editor I've had a serious problem with apart from the User:Soulspinr sockpuppets. If he focussed on the article rather than me we'd all be much more productive and able to resolve disputes amicably.Nixon Now (talk) 10:58, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- People don't seem to be buying your act, NN, and you have yet to provide us with a single diff demonstrating I've disrupted anything or pushed any sort of POV. This ANI is not about personalities, but about your disruptive behaviour—which is what ANI deals with. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 11:30, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I refer admins to comments made by admin User:Ivanvector and other editors in the main discussion above the break, particularly this one[67]. If I require a defence to CT's specious complaint, I will rely entirely on what Ivanvector has said and see no reason to add anything further. If CT brings up a two month old edit to an entirely different article (as he does below) please see this response[68]. These two diffs are all that need to be said. Nixon Now (talk) 11:56, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- There's only one editor here on any kind of crusade, and if editors like Curly Turkey would focus half the energy on building articles and contributing civilly to talk page discussions as they apparently do finding battles to fight, we would have a much better encyclopedia. Don't ping me five more times, I'm done commenting here. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:07, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Ivanvector has yet to comment on [this WP:BLP violation or how your keeping disputed under-discussion material in the article doesn't violate WP:BLP. He also hasn't backed up any of your accusations against me. Another admin, Masem, has commented on certain editors' desires to include negative material (in particular, the antisemitism material) in this BLP in violation of WP:UNDUE, WP:BLP, WP:NOT#NEWS, and WP:NPOV—material you have fought to keep in the text even while it is under discussion (it's still there now, and the discussion hasn't closed). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:15, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Again Ivan refuses to comment on these BLP violations. Why? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:19, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I refer admins to comments made by admin User:Ivanvector and other editors in the main discussion above the break, particularly this one[67]. If I require a defence to CT's specious complaint, I will rely entirely on what Ivanvector has said and see no reason to add anything further. If CT brings up a two month old edit to an entirely different article (as he does below) please see this response[68]. These two diffs are all that need to be said. Nixon Now (talk) 11:56, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- People don't seem to be buying your act, NN, and you have yet to provide us with a single diff demonstrating I've disrupted anything or pushed any sort of POV. This ANI is not about personalities, but about your disruptive behaviour—which is what ANI deals with. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 11:30, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm quite happy to and despite there being a number of editors with conflicting views, CT is the only editor I've had a serious problem with apart from the User:Soulspinr sockpuppets. If he focussed on the article rather than me we'd all be much more productive and able to resolve disputes amicably.Nixon Now (talk) 10:58, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Mmm. That's very good advice, which you should follow yourself. Fish+Karate 10:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Okay, this is my last comment, then I have work to do and won't be back on today. Since roughly late December when Mr. Ford became a news item again, in general there have been two main approaches to editing this article:
- The typical BRD approach, which has occasionally pushed the limits of BLP in both directions, followed by at times heated but generally civil discussion;
- Screaming BLP! BLP! Revert! Revert! any time anybody makes any edit with any kind of POV skew, no matter how minor nor how far in the past, or even on different articles entirely.
- One of these approaches has led to several constructive discussions and building out of article content, and has resolved some long-standing issues with the article. One of these approaches is plainly obstructive, and has led, repeatedly, to article progress being undone.
- To answer Curly Turkey's repeated insistence that I comment on one particular edit: it was one edit on a different but related article which occurred more than two months ago, which was restored once when a sockpuppet removed it, and then reworked to be compliant with BLP and NPOV. It was not a case, as Curly Turkey repeatedly insists, of a POV-warring editor repeatedly inserting false and derogatory information about a living person; this situation is much more complicated than that black-and-white thinking. The fact is, in 2013 a major Canadian newspaper (Canada's largest by circulation, not some tabloid or gossip rag) published a report (not a column or opinion piece) which stated that Doug Ford dealt hashish in the 1980s, and repeated this statement in 2018. Coverage of Ford in other publications then and now regularly mentions this information. It's not much a stretch to thus say "Doug Ford is a former drug dealer" - it is not BLP compliant when you take all of the facts of the matter into consideration (he denies it, no criminal charges were laid), but it is not on the level of out of the blue saying "Doug Ford is a Russian puppet" or "Doug Ford killed a guy", or whatever other drive-by vandalism politicians' bios are regularly subject to. Nixon Now has offered edits like these for discussion, has offered their viewpoint sometimes insistently but has always respected consensus when it emerges, including with this one edit from two months ago. This is exactly how BLP and BRD are supposed to interact. Some of these things belong in the article and some don't - we don't get to NPOV without bringing these things up and talking about them. There is no constructive purpose today for demanding sanctions over one isolated edit from two months ago, except in trying to browbeat your opponents with policy instead of participating in consensus-seeking activities.
- In the time since the edit for which Curly Turkey seeks sanctions against Nixon Now, particular probably-BLP-violating edits from many editors have spawned discussions on the article's talk page and have made significant progress to resolve:
- whether to include the Globe & Mail investigative report, how much of it, and where it should be placed in the article if so;
- how much detail to include regarding one campaign event;
- whether to include the G&M report again, and whether the prose suggested that the subject expressing intent to take legal action but not doing so implied guilt by association in Wikipedia's voice;
- a still-ongoing RfC on major aspects of inclusion of the G&M report;
- whether mentioning the subject's brother (not the one who was Mayor of Toronto) in the G&M allegations section violated WP:BLPCRIME;
- whether the subject's political position should be described as "populist";
- where to place the G&M allegations, despite the RfC on the topic still being open and active;
- the subject's middle name, which turned out to be based on a flawed source;
- whether to include subsection headings for various paragraphs within a long section covering the subject's political career;
- whether to include supposedly anti-Semitic comments made by the subject and his brother, along with discussion of this incident on a leading American late-night comedy show;
- a discussion on whether certain municipal activities which occurred while the subject was a municipal councillor should be attributed to him;
- a discussion of coverage of an episode of a local public television show on which the subject was featured.
- In my admittedly biased opinion, this is remarkable progress for a BLP on a divisive politician during a campaign. Nixon Now has participated in most of these discussions, while Curly Turkey has mostly just tried to filibuster and start separate parallel side-discussions at other noticeboards, like this one. It's curious to me that Curly Turkey demands sanctions for this but is utterly silent on edits like this or this. What does WP:NPOV even mean if you can't use it to get your editorial adversaries blocked, right?
- Anyway, I'm intending to ignore whatever else happens in this thread and encourage everyone else to do the same, particularly administrators, and participate at Talk:Doug Ford Jr. instead if you want to contribute. Leave a message on my talk page if something requires my urgent attention. I'm off to fight with Great Plains' confusing inventory costing layers database now. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 16:15, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ivanvector wonders why I haven't kicked up a fuss about two edits that are no longer in the article, versus edits that Nixon Now has editwarred to keep in the article (and are still there now)? What is this even supposed to imply? Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 20:37, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Moving forward
Hi all. In an attempt to impose some order on the article, I've gone ahead and removed pending changes, extended the semi-protection for three months, and implemented a 1RR restriction on the article. Also, since I haven't seen it addressed specifically, this is contentious label and if I see anything like that again, Nixon Now, you're going to be topic banned from the subject area without further notice. Regarding the content issue, there are two RfCs and a BLPN thread which need to be formally closed before that can be resolved. Swarm ♠ 20:30, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 20:42, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Detektyw_z_Wilna
Had real difficulties(not only me) with disruptive behaviour of this user. Texts with references to reliable sources like OECD, windeurope.org and other were removed multiple times(2-3) with pejorative and insufficient arguments "dubiuos", "flat out wrong", etc. thus violating BOLD in BRD (Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle) maliciously. It makes collecting facts difficult if they deleted instantly without discussing or corrections. As I explored the history of this user, most of the job he/she was done - guarding/reverting edits or deletion the sentences he/she likes most and removing facts which are verifiable but are not pleasing to him/her. Absent or very minimal discussion. Very little of new content was added by this user. The final result is poor and disruptive - editors waisting time reverting deleted and needlessly editing well sourced content.
Examples of deleting-restoring edits with reliable sources:
832058869
832183760
832072047 edit 5)
832418917
832492931 edit 2) - completely rewritten
832493177 completely rewritten introducing factual errros
832654342
Information about roads A1,A2,E67 - with the claim "Wikipedia is not yellowpages or adverting source" was removed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lithuania&diff=832497939&oldid=832493177
Detektyw z Wilna removed a sentence tertiary education percentage with reliable sources(OECD), claiming the facts are dubious, forcefully misediting another sentence about Gazprom monopoly, and, due to poor understanding of the subject leaving factual errors - "all of Lithuania’s gas supply is provided by an LNG terminal" which was never stated before. While "The terminal is able to meet the Lithuania's demand 100 percent..in the future" was stated in original source. But I decided to pass on this, since its hopeless to start reverting/editing game again. It were vain 2-3 reverts/misedits already before. 832493177
After some misedits/reverts the fact from OECD about tertiary education percentage in Lithuania was finally allowed to be in the text..
One might think - maybe there are very strict quality requirements are being pushed through by Detektyw_z_Wilna ? But the content which is defended by the abovementioned user has weak sources, having no direct support of the facts, neglecting Wikipedia:Neutral point of view principles and difficult to verify for a non-Lithuanian reader are blatantly defended. 832059097 "Law and crime" as it was in 831095300— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ke an (talk • contribs) 10:31, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Ke an: I currently lack of time to follow his every step, but I have noticed tendency that he is mostly (or all the time) inserting negative information about Lithuania (Wikipedia:Tendentious editing). Moreover, as you have already mentioned - he defends such negative information very aggressively. I cannot confirm it yet, however he more and more reminds me one of the Russian Troll Factory employee. Some of the examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Education_in_Lithuania&diff=prev&oldid=816385880 (only problems about the Lithuanian education), https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Invest_Lithuania&diff=prev&oldid=817685742 (suggestion to remove "Invest in Lithuania" article). His main troll duty currently seems to be corruption in Lithuania and he is mostly boasting it in his edits: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lithuania&diff=prev&oldid=828076611, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=prev&oldid=810927608 , https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=prev&oldid=810940795 , https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=prev&oldid=810947028. I am against censorship, however a person who constantly adds only negative information about his home country really raises doubts about his nationality and his possible Black propaganda tasks. -- Pofka (talk) 11:13, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Pofka: I made a small research on this user contributions via Detektyw z Wilna Contributions it reveals very interesting picture:
- ~90% of the added content of this user is on page Corruption in Lithuania. It has serious Wikipedia:Neutral point of view problems, speaking the least. I would suggest to add a warning regarding the poor sources and NPOV Balance on it.
- Attempt to delete Lithuanian governmental non-profit (like Invest Lithuania, Lithuanian Development Agency) and Lithuanian Free Market Institute organizations from Wikipedia. How to properly do AfD?
- Almost all activity on Lithuania page is closely watching deleting/misedit of contributions of others, reverting and edit warring and fiercely protecting the Corruption and Crime sections.
-- Ke an (talk) 14:16, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
Reply from the accused
- Most of the content in this "report" does not even attempt to honestly deal with the situation, but rather focuses on character assassinations – "troll", "black propaganda", "inherit bias" and so on. It does not seem wise to rebut and continue down this slippery slope.
- I would like to point out that I attempted to honestly deal with the situation and applied to Dispute_resolution_noticeboard before this report to "incident noticeboard".
- Most of the edits which in the list above are identified as "disruptive", have concrete and detailed reasons listed in the edit summary. This example is particularly telling (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lithuania&diff=832493177&oldid=832492931). Attempt to correct souce missrepresentation (from a source that is inaccessible for most people) plus a very detailed and thorough edit explanation is identified as "disruptive". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Detektyw z Wilna (talk • contribs) 08:15, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, most of my edits have been about Lithuania. Exactly the same is true of both of the editors (Ke and and Pofka) who are accusing me.
- I could have reused most of this text and made nearly identical report on both Ke an and Pofka. Just because you made an appeal first, does not mean that you are factually correct.
- My edits have clear and extensive edit summaries and I only guard against censorship. Instead of multiple misrepresentations, wouldn't it at least be honest to mention that (a) most of your edits were never reverted nor altered (b) I allowed all edits as soon as they were factually accurate and (c) I improved some of your phrasings (grammar/spelling/word order/choice of words)?
- My edits are factually accurate, encyclopaedic and relevant. Furthermore, I do my best to not extrapolate or misrepresent.
- Claims that I am non-cooperative are not factually accurate – I strive to have clear and extensive edit summary to my every edit. I have also replied where a reply was needed. Sometimes, it was the other party that discontinued the discussion but I never threw around accusations of "non cooperation" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Detektyw_z_Wilna#Korupcija_Lietuvoje)
Now let's deal with specific accusations:
- "Texts with references to reliable sources ... were removed multiple times" & "removing facts which are verifiable but are not pleasing to him/her" – every removal had an explanation in the edit summary. Text were removed primarily for contradictions to official EU statistics.
- "most of the job he/she was done - guarding/reverting edits" – reverting what appeared to be needless censorship. I do not object to removal or changes. My issue is needless censorship.
- "But I decided to pass on this, since its hopeless to start reverting/editing game again" – I reverted only the edits that seemed factually incorrect. Most of your edits I never reverted nor altered, so this crying foul behaviour is misdirected.
- "OECD about tertiary education percentage in Lithuania was finally allowed to be in the text." – allowed as soon as it appeared factually accurate. I also improved on the initially awkward phrasing.
- "abovementioned [Detektyw_z_Wilna] user has weak sources, having no direct support of the fact" – a claim that is false or completely unsubstantiated at the very least.
- "[Detektyw_z_Wilna] neglecting Wikipedia:Neutral point of view principles" – a claim that is false or completely unsubstantiated at the very least.
- "difficult to verify for a non-Lithuanian reader" – sometimes Lithuanian sources are used because (a) English sources are not available (b) Lithuanian sources are accurately represented on Wikipedia (c) Wikipedia does not ban or discourage non-English sources.
- "he defends such negative information very aggressively" – for the thirty-eleventh time, I defend when it appears to be censorship.
- "I cannot confirm it yet, however he [...] Russian Troll Factory employee." – beautiful, just beautiful. Almost Reductio ad Hitlerum level of arguments.
- "A person who constantly adds only negative information about his home country" – I add relevant, encyclopaedic and factually accurate information which otherwise would have not been added because of the "we need to look good on Wikipedia" marketing-style approach.
- "It has serious Wikipedia:Neutral point of view problems, speaking the least." – One of many unsubstantiated attacks. Feel free to improve the article.
Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 06:21, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Comments
- I think I provided quite enough diffs with proves about disruptive behaviour. Just another very characteristic issue - user Detektyw_z_Wilna uses quite often - "I allowed". Do we deal with some dictatorship or authority here? Edit waring diffs show quite limited understanding of ethics and knowledge -- Ke an (talk) 07:29, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- English is not my native language, sorry for unfortunate phrasing. It was unintentional and I try to not do it again. As for "proving disruptive behavior", show two edits that prove "disruptiveness". You allege that there are many examples, but let's start with two. Pick your best examples. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 07:50, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Furthermore, it is questionable if edits which Ke an identified as "disruptive" are actually disruptive. Here is one example – Ke an thought that this edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lithuania&diff=832072047&oldid=832059097) was disruptive. However, Mr. Ke an seems to willingly ignore that there were 7 concrete and detailed reasons for the edit, all named in the edit summary. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 08:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna:@Ke an:. Detektyw, I deleted your section about corruption because it is too minor for a country-level page and other FA/GA articles of countries have this crime (along with others) integrated to other sections (Law or Law enforcement). Your claims about "looking good" is a slander and I will not further discuss it because I have integrated information about corruption from your paragraph and did not tried to avoid this problematic area of Lithuania. You immediately restored it without listening what I have done and why I have done it because it is possibly your task to boast this problematic field above other crimes in Lithuania. My accusation that you are from the Troll Factory is because you have vastly used proxy previously in the Corruption in Lithuania page. Why would a normal person do that and try to hide his true identity in such peaceful website as Wikipedia? I have checked these IP addresses locations who were inserting information to the Corruption in Lithuania page and they are from many distant countries. This information was later added by you to Lithuania and is based on Lithuanian language sources, so it is really easy to understand that you was inserting information to this page by using at least three different IP addresses and your registered account Detektyw z Wilna. Here is the proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812717853&oldid=812699338 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812699338&oldid=812699072 (both were added by 82.221.111.11 who is located in Reykjavik, Iceland, so is it cold there?), next: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812724333&oldid=812719269 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812724624&oldid=812724333 (both were added by 66.212.31.138 who is located in Los Angeles, United States, so is it hot there?), then https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812732001&oldid=812724624 (added by 37.0.124.86 who is located in Moscow, Russia, so hello my dear Russian communist friend?). Caught your red tail? All these edits are based on Lithuanian sources and are very similar or are improving, expanding previously added edits by these distant IP adresses (more of them can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&offset=20171129101647&action=history&tagfilter=). By the way, your comparison with Hitler was priceless (ordinary slang used by the Troll Factory zombies, wanna call me fascist?). Banning of this proxy troll and protection of Corruption in Lithuania page from not registered users is a must. -- Pofka (talk) 08:53, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Pofka: (1) Slander? Please check what the word means. (2) My self-imposed task is to prevent censorship. (3) Troll factory accusations and other longshots (ignoring the problematic projection, unsubstantiated accusations and irrelevance) are a slippery slope (4) I agree that Corruption in Lithuania should be semi-protected. (5) I never made any comparison to Hitler. You seem to be intentionally misrepresenting my reductio argument Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 08:58, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna: Will not discuss anymore with a red proxy troll because it is pointless. These IP adresses is a proof that you are a proxy troll from Moscow. Your days are counted here. Прощай мой друг! -- Pofka (talk) 09:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- WTF is going on? Let's wait for external mediation. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 09:19, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna:Wikipedia:Sock puppetry is illegal here, my friend from Moscow. ;-) -- Pofka (talk) 09:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Pofka: You provided edits done by 3 IP addresses. One of the three IPs I do recognise. The other two, I do not. Your accusations about Moscow, trolls or sockpuppetry are false and a textbook definition of character assassination. Desperate measures in lack of arguments? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 09:46, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna: Let me guess... It must be the 37.0.124.86: Moscow, Russia? ;-) Many as you call "characters" were just assassinated all across Europe and are flying to Moscow with their "diplomatic" secret agents identities torned. ;-) -- Pofka (talk) 09:59, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is amazing how difficult you find to stay on the actual case. Please note that I have never accused you of various unsubstantiated things. With your logic, I would have accused you for "working for Lithuanian ministry of Economy" which does various country promotion campaigns and has even founded organisations dedicated to that purpose (www.lithuania.travel, vilnius-tourism.lt, www.govilnius.lt). Back to the topic, while I admire your patriotism and energy, censorship will have to be reverted. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 10:06, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna: Lithuanian ministry of Economy does not have a Proxy Troll Factory. Russia? Well... Internet Research Agency, https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/world/europe/russia-troll-factory.html (Moscow). How much of your wage you will lose because of me? Hurts, isn't it? -- Pofka (talk) 10:15, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is amazing how difficult you find to stay on the actual case. Please note that I have never accused you of various unsubstantiated things. With your logic, I would have accused you for "working for Lithuanian ministry of Economy" which does various country promotion campaigns and has even founded organisations dedicated to that purpose (www.lithuania.travel, vilnius-tourism.lt, www.govilnius.lt). Back to the topic, while I admire your patriotism and energy, censorship will have to be reverted. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 10:06, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna: Let me guess... It must be the 37.0.124.86: Moscow, Russia? ;-) Many as you call "characters" were just assassinated all across Europe and are flying to Moscow with their "diplomatic" secret agents identities torned. ;-) -- Pofka (talk) 09:59, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Pofka: You provided edits done by 3 IP addresses. One of the three IPs I do recognise. The other two, I do not. Your accusations about Moscow, trolls or sockpuppetry are false and a textbook definition of character assassination. Desperate measures in lack of arguments? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 09:46, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna:Wikipedia:Sock puppetry is illegal here, my friend from Moscow. ;-) -- Pofka (talk) 09:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- WTF is going on? Let's wait for external mediation. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 09:19, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna: Will not discuss anymore with a red proxy troll because it is pointless. These IP adresses is a proof that you are a proxy troll from Moscow. Your days are counted here. Прощай мой друг! -- Pofka (talk) 09:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Pofka: (1) Slander? Please check what the word means. (2) My self-imposed task is to prevent censorship. (3) Troll factory accusations and other longshots (ignoring the problematic projection, unsubstantiated accusations and irrelevance) are a slippery slope (4) I agree that Corruption in Lithuania should be semi-protected. (5) I never made any comparison to Hitler. You seem to be intentionally misrepresenting my reductio argument Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 08:58, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna:@Ke an:. Detektyw, I deleted your section about corruption because it is too minor for a country-level page and other FA/GA articles of countries have this crime (along with others) integrated to other sections (Law or Law enforcement). Your claims about "looking good" is a slander and I will not further discuss it because I have integrated information about corruption from your paragraph and did not tried to avoid this problematic area of Lithuania. You immediately restored it without listening what I have done and why I have done it because it is possibly your task to boast this problematic field above other crimes in Lithuania. My accusation that you are from the Troll Factory is because you have vastly used proxy previously in the Corruption in Lithuania page. Why would a normal person do that and try to hide his true identity in such peaceful website as Wikipedia? I have checked these IP addresses locations who were inserting information to the Corruption in Lithuania page and they are from many distant countries. This information was later added by you to Lithuania and is based on Lithuanian language sources, so it is really easy to understand that you was inserting information to this page by using at least three different IP addresses and your registered account Detektyw z Wilna. Here is the proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812717853&oldid=812699338 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812699338&oldid=812699072 (both were added by 82.221.111.11 who is located in Reykjavik, Iceland, so is it cold there?), next: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812724333&oldid=812719269 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812724624&oldid=812724333 (both were added by 66.212.31.138 who is located in Los Angeles, United States, so is it hot there?), then https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&diff=812732001&oldid=812724624 (added by 37.0.124.86 who is located in Moscow, Russia, so hello my dear Russian communist friend?). Caught your red tail? All these edits are based on Lithuanian sources and are very similar or are improving, expanding previously added edits by these distant IP adresses (more of them can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corruption_in_Lithuania&offset=20171129101647&action=history&tagfilter=). By the way, your comparison with Hitler was priceless (ordinary slang used by the Troll Factory zombies, wanna call me fascist?). Banning of this proxy troll and protection of Corruption in Lithuania page from not registered users is a must. -- Pofka (talk) 08:53, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Furthermore, it is questionable if edits which Ke an identified as "disruptive" are actually disruptive. Here is one example – Ke an thought that this edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lithuania&diff=832072047&oldid=832059097) was disruptive. However, Mr. Ke an seems to willingly ignore that there were 7 concrete and detailed reasons for the edit, all named in the edit summary. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 08:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- English is not my native language, sorry for unfortunate phrasing. It was unintentional and I try to not do it again. As for "proving disruptive behavior", show two edits that prove "disruptiveness". You allege that there are many examples, but let's start with two. Pick your best examples. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 07:50, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Pofka and Detektyw z Wilna: Detektyw z Wilna is also demonstrates what is defined as Wikipedia:Ownership of content. This user also flooded the Talk:Lithuania page, not only this one. -- Ke an (talk) 11:59, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Please note that this entire sentence is empty and unsubstantiated accusations. Both Ke an (34 edits) and Pofka (36) have far more edits on the aforementioned talk page than me (23). (https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Lithuania). Of course, spreading false claims hasn't stopped Ke an before, so why bother now? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 12:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- On Wikipedia:Teahouse#Are these statements NPOV? this user asked if some statements that "are backed by reliable sources" (without providing those sources) would be sufficiently NPOV for a "legal paragraph of a country article on Wikipedia". (which country? who knows!) I had to drag this information out of this user. I was assuming good faith, but in light of this discussion I am questioning that now. Alexis Jazz (talk) 12:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Alexis Jazz: Unfortunately Detektyw z Wilna doesn't demonstrate a good will. Rather a misuse of Wikipedia principles and conflict-solving tools(they are flooded with meaningless micro accusations and are difficult to read now). It looks like a professional trolling to me. -- Ke an (talk) 14:52, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Alexis Jazz:Good that you bring that up here, but all sources were provided as soon as you asked for them. I initially did not see why it was necessary to provide sources for a generic question. However, you got them as soon as you asked for them. Same goes for country name. So implication that something was "hidden" isn't correct, is it? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 12:41, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Alexis Jazz: Nobody with good faith hides under multiple proxies when adding information about (now definitely) foreign country. "I don't recognise these IPs" was all he said when he got caught with indisputable evidence (just check these links which I posted before and decide by yourself if it was written by the same person at almost the same time in US/Iceland/Russia, haha). I posted about this there to inform about this situation, which is critical and requires punishment. -- Pofka (talk) 13:00, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Pofka: Critique and attack me all you like, but at least do it honestly without misrepresenting my quotes (don't know), making up stuff (hides under multiple proxies) or twisting the facts (at almost the same time) to suit your message. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 13:08, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna: Okey, lets make it without paraphrasing instead of "I don't know" you said "I do not recognise". Edited. End of feed for the troll from me, because you are simply speaking in the same manner as Vladimir Zhirinovsky, who also does not listen to other people arguments and only shouts that everybody are enemies/russophobics. -- Pofka (talk) 13:28, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna: Asking without providing those sources right away is already strange. After I asked, you added the sources but still did not provide a link to the article. Yes, I had to drag the information out of you. @Pofka: It would probably help if you could organize/compact all the information here. Alexis Jazz (talk) 13:21, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Alexis Jazz: All the needed information about his proxy usage is already here. See mine post from "08:53, 3 April 2018" and pay attention how aggresively he runs from this topic using absurd arguments. -- Pofka (talk) 13:36, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Alexis Jazz: With all due respect, your bar for "dragging out" seems pretty low. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 13:29, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Pofka: You throw some weak unsubstantiated accusation on me, so there is nothing to reply to, not that I am "running away". Speaking of which, there are plenty of other IP edits on that article. Why have you ignored them? Back to the topic, length and effort this tiny dispute is now consuming is ridiculous. See my suggested solution. What do you think?
- @Alexis Jazz: Nobody with good faith hides under multiple proxies when adding information about (now definitely) foreign country. "I don't recognise these IPs" was all he said when he got caught with indisputable evidence (just check these links which I posted before and decide by yourself if it was written by the same person at almost the same time in US/Iceland/Russia, haha). I posted about this there to inform about this situation, which is critical and requires punishment. -- Pofka (talk) 13:00, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Initial censorship issue
Multiple relevant, accurate and well-referenced claims have been aggressively censored from Lithuania. Here are four examples of sentences which are now removed:
- Around half of Lithuanians believe that corruption is prevalent in the judicial system
- National surveys have revealed that around half of Lithuanians would neglect to report corruption due to beliefs that corrupt individuals would not be punished
- A 2016 corruption survey by STT found that majority of Lithuanian population perceives that corruption levels have increased in the past 1 year and past 5 year periods. However, according to local branch of Transparency International, corruption levels have been decreasing over the past decade.
- In surveys of Lithuanian business people, corruption is highlighted as the primary issue prohibiting economic development and international competitiveness.
This initially became a dispute and led to disorganised discussions on the talk page and some edit warring. The issue of censorship has now been successfully rebranded by Ke an and Pofka to alleged "misbehaviour by Detektyw z Wilna [me]". It later escalated to unsubstantiated but very confident claims that I work at at "Moscow troll factory". Regardless, the initial censorship problem has been hidden.
Therefore, this separate section is created in order (a) to highlight and (b) get external input on the initial censorship issue.
- Ping @Ke an: and ping @Pofka: // Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 10:48, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- All these sentences added by you using various proxies still exists in Corruption in Lithuania without any censorship and there is no need to spread lies that something was censored, but I guess that's how propaganda works in the most corrupted state in Europe. Does it, troll boy? Better explain how you are constantly travelling around the world, haha. -- Pofka (talk) 13:04, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Resorting to personal attacks to avoid discussing the primary issue at hand? Again? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 13:11, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Detektyw z Wilna: Wikipedia:DNFT. For the normal people, here is comprehensive explanation what was done by myself in this Lithuania's section (copied from Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#Lithuania#Corruption): "Corruption covers only three articles in the Criminal Code of Lithuania: 225, 226, 227 (http://www.infolex.lt/portal/start_ta.asp?act=doc&fr=pop&doc=66150) out of 330 articles. So comprehensive analysis about each crime genre would result in about 100 separate sections. This would definitely be too detailed for a country-level page. In my opinion, such comprehensive analysis of each crime genre may only be discussed in a separate newly created article Crime in Lithuania (other countries has this one, f. e., Crime in the United States). I have rewritten this section and integrated two important sentences about corruption from the Detektyw z Wilna "Corruption" section to the newly created "Lithuania#Law enforcement and crime" section, which was based on the "United States#Law enforcement and crime" section (named as a Good Article). These sentences are: "According to a European Union Anti-Corruption Report, Lithuania had the highest proportion of citizens - 29 percent, who have been asked or expected to pay bribes in the preceding 12 months of any EU country, with 95% of citizens considering corruption to be widespread and a major problem.[176] Though, according to local branch of Transparency International, corruption levels have been decreasing over the past decade.". Also, part of the information from the old section was split to the newly created "Lithuania#Law" section, which is based on the "Germany#Law" section (named as a Featured Article). Highlighting of problematic fields and boasting it over other less problematic fields (f. e., contrabanda, which in 2017 decreased by 27.2% from the 2016 numbers) in a separate extensive section in a country's article qualifies more as a Black propaganda for me than a censorship. In conclusion, I think two sentences about corruption, together with other popular crimes in Lithuania, is enough and comprehensive analysis should be done only in a newly created Crime in Lithuania article sections (similar to "Crime in the United States#Homicide" and "Crime in the United States#Gun violence").". -- Pofka (talk) 13:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Resorting to personal attacks to avoid discussing the primary issue at hand? Again? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 13:11, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- All these sentences added by you using various proxies still exists in Corruption in Lithuania without any censorship and there is no need to spread lies that something was censored, but I guess that's how propaganda works in the most corrupted state in Europe. Does it, troll boy? Better explain how you are constantly travelling around the world, haha. -- Pofka (talk) 13:04, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Suggested solution
- There are two issues here – (a) my alleged misconduct and (b) content on corruption on Lithuania-related articles. For obvious reasons, I should not be making decision on (a). I do think that it's a desperate attempt to revert attention, but again – my opinion should not count here.
- However, I have a suggestion for (b) – @Ke an, Pofka, and Alexis Jazz: and whoever else thinks that content "is biased" should attempt to improve the article. And probably best without any involvement from me. In a few weeks or so, I will open a paragraph on the talk page with concrete suggestions (if there will be any) if I perceive that any important content is missing.
- What do you think? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 13:36, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:DNFT until incident about his proxy usage is solved here. -- Pofka (talk) 13:41, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- DNFT is a baseless accusation which you insist on repeating. It is one of two issues. While I fully consent to "DNFT investigation" or any actions (a) might require, that's still one of two issues. What about issue (b)? Or do you feel uncomfortable discussing with factual arguments? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 13:44, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- This is too slow and too time consuming. Feel free to decide without me or at least with limited involvement from me. And while you are attacking me left and right, at least keep the attacks honest, without misrepresentations, made up stuff and fact-twisting. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 13:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- DNFT is a baseless accusation which you insist on repeating. It is one of two issues. While I fully consent to "DNFT investigation" or any actions (a) might require, that's still one of two issues. What about issue (b)? Or do you feel uncomfortable discussing with factual arguments? Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 13:44, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:DNFT until incident about his proxy usage is solved here. -- Pofka (talk) 13:41, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Detektyw z Wilna's absurd attempt to hide this investigation
| @Alexis Jazz:@Doug Weller: Interesting fact. Detektyw z Wilna just deleted mine post to (you) Wikipedia administrator Doug Weller in my own talk page (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pofka&diff=834019007&oldid=834018391), so the Russian proxy troll attack is real here and requires actions. Edit: he deleted this sentence again later (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pofka&diff=834020259&oldid=834019841). Pain for the proxy usage idenfication can definitely be felt from his actions. -- Pofka (talk) 14:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
|
This Dispute Is Old and Tired
It has been 48 hours since anyone posted about this dispute. I couldn't figure out at DRN what the issue was, and I still can't, because the posts are too long, difficult to read. I suggest that this thread either be closed with a warning to both (all?) parties, the better option. However, if it is still necessary to adjudicate any conduct issues, I notice that Lithuania is in Eastern Europe, both as usually defined, and as defined in twentieth-century history as that part of Europe that was occupied by the Soviet Union and was therefore the battleground of the Cold War. If a remedy is needed, take this dispute to Arbitration Enforcement. Otherwise, close it. I am willing to try to mediate at DRN if there are no conduct issues and if everyone is concise, but I know that long posts make the poster feel better even if they don't communicate. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:10, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Boxinglive
- livesportsforyou.com: Linksearch en (https) (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com • Alexa
Below are some of his edits. It involves inserting an illegal website. I want him blocked. Boxinglive is a new account that has no talk page.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mobile mundo (talk • contribs) 15:08, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Boom, and gone. Canterbury Tail talk 19:10, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, Canterbury Tail. We are busy today trying to edit a busy 2018 Masters page, and we don't need the spammers to deal with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnsmith2116 (talk • contribs) 15:17, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Can you folks please sign your comments with 4 tildes (~~~~)? Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:09, 5 April 2018 (UTC)'
- They're already creating new accounts and re-adding. I think we need to blacklist livesportsforyou.com urgently. Canterbury Tailtalk 19:17, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think the blacklist discussion could be taken to MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist. —Jeremyv^_^vBori! 22:22, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Johnsmith2116:@Jéské Couriano: Blacklisting is a last resort if other methods have failed. Blocking works unless it becomes a whack-a-mole game. I have just semi-protected the 2018 Masters Tournament article for 1 month. Hopefully that will take care of the problem. ~Anachronist(talk) 23:15, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks. Also, I forgot to sign my post, sorry about that. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 23:17, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Johnsmith2116:@Jéské Couriano: Blacklisting is a last resort if other methods have failed. Blocking works unless it becomes a whack-a-mole game. I have just semi-protected the 2018 Masters Tournament article for 1 month. Hopefully that will take care of the problem. ~Anachronist(talk) 23:15, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think the blacklist discussion could be taken to MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist. —Jeremyv^_^vBori! 22:22, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
I have blacklisted the stuff. A couple of minutes after a first block a new editor appears, and they seem to target more articles. The MO reminds me of an older spammer of similar material. There is only one solution with that level of persistence. --Dirk Beetstra T C 04:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- It turns out that they had even put that stuff on the main Masters page also, seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Masters_Tournament&type=revision&diff=834440811&oldid=834440401 Johnsmith2116 (talk) 09:41, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Sonicfanboy074
This user, despite being warned multiple times, is repeatedly adding content without citing their sources (see their talk page for the warnings). Me and an admin have asked why they are doing this behavior, and they continue to add unsourced things while being reverted for it. -- 1989 (talk) 21:19, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sonicfanboy apparently has a habit of ignoring warnings via the users talk page and continues to be disruptive despite receiving warnings from multiple editors. The user has only been editing since June 2017. After seeing his contributions, I don’t see any real benefit the user can provide for Wiki. Just another case of WP:NOTHERE. An indef. block will solve everything. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 05:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've applied a 36 hour block to this user for the repeated addition of unreferenced content to articles. I don't want to indefinitely block this user yet, as I'm hoping that this block is what's needed to set them straight. If it doesn't and the behavior continues after the block expires, I'll definitely be more open to an indefinite block - but we should at least try to set the user straight first if we can. Any admin is welcome to extend the block to an indefinite duration without my approval if they feel that this is more appropriate - just ping or message me and let me know that you did so, and that'll be fine. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 12:23, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Bstanard98 - Disruptive editing/vandalism continues
- Bstanard98 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Article impacted: Kings Dominion (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
Example diffs:
Talk page discussion attempt: Talk:Kings Dominion#Ownership, name etc
A recent ANI discussion: WP:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive978#User:Bstanard98.
Despite warnings on their talk page and attempts to discuss at the article talk page, the vandalism has persisted. It's important to point out that this is not a content dispute. This is one editor opposing several by injecting obviously incorrect information into the article over and over again. Furthermore, edit summaries like this one show that they are clearly aware of the disruption they're causing. I originally posted this to AIV until I realized this only occurs once a week or so. --GoneIn60 (talk) 12:24, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Part of the problem is labeling the user's edits as vandalism. My guess is it's a kid, but, regardless, the user is incompetent. They created their account in July 2017 but didn't start using it until late February of this year. They have 29 edits, all to the same article. I believe their only edit summary is the one pointed out by GoneIn60. They don't talk. Their disruptive edits are wasting the community's time. I've blocked them as NOTHERE.--Bbb23 (talk) 12:58, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
IP possibly being used by topic banned user to get round ban
Following on from here, it is believed that IP 192.160.216.52 is being used by Unscintillating who was topic banned two months ago from XfD-related discussions. The SPI report has been opened by Eggishorn with suitable evidence. Could I ask for assistance from an uninvolved admin/SPI clerk please, the sooner the better please, owing to the volatility of the IP. Thanks all. IP, RoySmith (who commented on the SPI) and Eggishorn have been informed Nightfury 14:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Get for real, User:Nightfury. You ought to be blocked for making personal attacks according to the SPI edit notice. You have no evidence because there is no evidence. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 17:32, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:49, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- You know what, Mr. Bugs, I don't know what you're talking about. I am not afraid, instead I'm angry that these two users think it's reasonable to make serious accusations of sockpuppetry without any evidence at all when they know that no one will run a checkuser and all I did was disagree with them on some AfDs. Hey, listen, though. What if I create an account, verify that it's mine by making pre-agreed edits, and then you all run a checkuser on that account? Is that ever done? 192.160.216.52 (talk) 17:56, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- You keep saying "do a checkuser", as if that's the magic bullet. If you know the Unscintillating account never made edits from that IP, demanding it proves nothing. This is why having an account is better. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:27, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Having an account is better because then one doesn't get treated like dirt by accountholders. There's no other benefit that I can see. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 18:50, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry you're not able to see the other benefits. Maybe you can go read about them. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:27, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for giving yet another example of what I'm talking about. Do you think you could get away with your nonsense editing from an IP? Why don't you check your privilege? 192.160.216.52 (talk) 13:19, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were incapable of finding the essay about the benefits on your own. Here is the link: WP:TBRACW. Now you can go read it. My restating something that is already stated well is simply unnecessary. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:09, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Are you actually an Angelino, or are you using an open proxy? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- False dichotomy, Mr. Bugs. Angelenos are people from Los Angeles. Obviously I'm from Whittier. It's a whole different place. And I'm not editing from a proxy. I'm actually logged on to the network here. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 13:19, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not convinced these two are the same person. There's similarities, but if we assumed every belligerent inclusionist wikilawyer was a sock of the same person we'd be at SPI continually. If the IP and Unscintillating are the same person they've adopted a more directly aggressive style of arguing. I think it's likely that Unscintillating was someone's sock and I have a sneaky suspicion of who that sockmaster is but my feeling is these two are not related. Reyk YO! 18:35, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, I guess. I'm not an inclusionist, though, and I'm not belligerent. Sure, I only support "keep" positions, but I'm highly selective about which AfDs I comment on. I don't comment on the vast majority of them because there's no viable arguments in favor of keeping. It's really not inclusionism. And I only seem belligerent to some small group of editors who can't bear to be challenged by an IP editor and who, for instance, think it's somehow a strike against me that I understand WP policies. It's not. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 18:50, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- You know what, Mr. Bugs, I don't know what you're talking about. I am not afraid, instead I'm angry that these two users think it's reasonable to make serious accusations of sockpuppetry without any evidence at all when they know that no one will run a checkuser and all I did was disagree with them on some AfDs. Hey, listen, though. What if I create an account, verify that it's mine by making pre-agreed edits, and then you all run a checkuser on that account? Is that ever done? 192.160.216.52 (talk) 17:56, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:49, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Ahmedadan1951
Edit warring, unsourced information and images, unintelligible additions to articles. The latter may be due to a lack of understanding of the English language. Alexis Jazz (talk) 12:31, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- See also c:Commons:Deletion requests/File:State seal of Lower Shebelle.jpg--Auric talk 13:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- This is getting annoying. He also killed of some sources. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:22, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- May be a sockpuppet of Loliban. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:33, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom
Serial IP vandal (see here) edits to Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom article (see [69], [70]) reverted. Another pair of eyes would be appreciated to ensure I did not overreach or overreact to genuine edits. The edits seemed suspicious and didn't pass my smell test but .... Thanks. Quis separabit? 16:14, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Unless I'm really looking at it incorrectly, the IP edits appear to be correct. See here I think the wording should be improved. Mr Ernie (talk) 17:57, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Mr Ernie Oh, yes -- I had already added that (see here). I just meant the IP (with a very checkered talk page)'s edits in general. Thanks, Quis separabit? 18:27, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I don't see anything terrible about the IP's edits on that article. Your "warning" on the IP's Talk page, though, isn't very helpful.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:24, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Help needed on Academi article
This isn't asking for action from this noticeboard, it's more a question of finding out where to go next, hopefully some admins here know the answer.
An editor has posted on Talk:Academi a request to divorce the page from the company's antecedents as Blackwater. The editor is doing the right thing with respect to WP:COI (although I'll suggest on their talk page that they follow WP:DISCLOSE, but that's essentially a paperwork issue). It looks like it's coming down as an official request from the company, although I have not followed through by contacting anyone in their corporate management. I know when I'm way out of my depth. Can someone here point me to what should be done about this request?
I don't know if there are admins experience in this type of request, or this has to go to Wikimedia lawyers, our what has to happen. I do believe that simply blindly removing all reference to Blackwater in that article would be incorrect, but I'm certainly willing to be educated by someone who understands WikiPolicies better than I do. Tarl N. (discuss) 16:05, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I could be wrong, but I think this gets handled like any other edit request. Editors need to investigate the company's concerns and respond appropriately on the talk page. I'm planning on working on it myself. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 16:19, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Nov3rd17 uses talk pages as a live feed
| Reported user's edits and behavior are fine - withdrawn by OP. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 12:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Nov3rd17 uses talk pages like this as a live feed where he starts posting news articles that came out just now without connecting them to an improvement for the article. Sometimes, he already writes a post before he has finished reading everything, then he updates his posting gradually. See versions history. That's WP:RECENTISM on steroids! He sees talk pages as his personal live blog where he can post every news article that came out just now. I don't think that article talk pages are meant to be used in this way and consider this as an abuse of talk pages. I asked this user nicely to build a connection to an improvement for the article or to move his post to Wikipedia:Reference_desk but he refuses to do either, instead he continues to post more and more news articles. Help! We need an experienced editor or administrator to stop this. Note that this user has been suspicious in the past for similar reasons, see here. --TheRandomIP (talk) 22:08, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- To me it seems it just puts sources that can be used by editors for discussion. It seems a very good use of talk pages, if you ask me, and I see no evidence of abuse of this logic. Of course if it was a constant flood it'd be different, but I only see few, germane examples. What they did on de.wiki is irrelevant- every wiki has their own rules and quirks. --cyclopiaspeak! 22:23, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- He changes the content of his posting constantly once a new article is released (and sometimes replaces the old content), that's why it looks sparse, but it's a flood of edits. His initial post (before I intervened) was a factual question unrelated to anything in the article. Therefore you can assume that the purpose of his postings are indeed to initiate a discussion about the article's subject but not the article itself. --TheRandomIP (talk) 22:48, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- TheRandomIP - When you say, "once a new article is released" - I assume that you mean when a new "reference" or "source" is added? I also don't understand exactly where in Wikipedia's talk page guidelines you're referring to when you say here and here to Nov3rd17 that their use of the article's talk page is not in compliance and that removing it is justified. Can you explain and show me where you're talking about so I can make sure I didn't miss anything? These questions seem perfectly legitimate and "on topic" to me, and I'm quite certain that these questions are what talk pages are for... Please let me know :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 12:16, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I see, we have fundamentally different viewpoints of what talk pages should be used for and the english Wikipedia seems to be a lot more liberal in that concern. I don't think that every new news article that came out should immediately be posted to the talk page. Imagine if we did that in all articles like in the article about Kim Kardashian and someone would keep a live feed about news articles where she somehow was mentioned. That's not really "collecting sources" as everyone who reads the news once in a while will stumble across those articles. It would be a valuable contribution if those news articles were forgotten or hard to find, but that was not the case here.
I don't think one should be allowed to just start a discussion about the article's subject when there is not a single sentence like "I would like to change..." or "... should be added" or similar in the discussion. But ok, if you think otherwise and one can just start a discussion about everything that's somehow related to the article's subject, if one is allowed to use the talk page as a live feed, then the user I reported is just right here. He loves to discuss the article's subject and to tell everyone the latest news and his feelings about the article's subject. You are like chalk and cheese then. I will go back to the german Wikipedia then where we actually want to keep Wikipedia focused on relevant discussions that are unambiguously directed solely toward the improvement of the encyclopedia. (fun fact: that's in part the first sentences of WP:DISCUSSION, so you should have that goal, too). --TheRandomIP (talk) 17:02, 6 April 2018 (UTC)- I'm with Oshwah here. English Wikipedia and German Wikipedia are quite different. In any case, posting links to new potential sources and summarizing them is fine. The
"I would like to change..." or "... should be added" or similar
that you feel is needed is implied - it's basically "here are some sources, perhaps someone can use them to add to the article". I don't see how that's not, as you say,relevant discussions that are unambiguously directed solely toward the improvement of the encyclopedia
. ansh666 18:41, 6 April 2018 (UTC)- TheRandomIP - By the way, I want you to know that you've done nothing wrong and I don't want you to feel that you're "in trouble" for being incorrect or making mistakes here. You legitimately thought talk pages worked the same way here as a sister Wikipedia project - mistakes happen, they're no big deal, we don't hold legitimate accidents or mistakes against anyone (so long as they understand and don't carelessly repeat them of course lol), and they're a normal part of learning - especially with the sheer amount of guidelines and policies we have here (and that differ from project-to-project or even different languages of the same project... haha). If you don't mind, could you please respond and follow-up with your messages to Nov3rd17 on that talk page and just apologize, let the editor know that you checked and found out that what they were doing is in-fact fine, and offer to help them out if they need it? I just don't want that user to think that they're doing something wrong or that they're in trouble for something when in fact they're not... Do that for me, and we can consider this discussion closed and no harm done :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:21, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for your kind words. The user in question expanded his live feed even further, so either he has read this discussion and your reaction already or he doesn't care what's allowed anyway. In either way, there is nothing what I can do anymore. (In the first case, my message to Nov3rd17 would be redundant. In the latter, Nov3rd17 would not have taken my comment seriously in the first place, so why apologize then?) This discussion can be closed, yes. --TheRandomIP (talk) 08:09, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- No problem! ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 12:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Resolved
- No problem! ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 12:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for your kind words. The user in question expanded his live feed even further, so either he has read this discussion and your reaction already or he doesn't care what's allowed anyway. In either way, there is nothing what I can do anymore. (In the first case, my message to Nov3rd17 would be redundant. In the latter, Nov3rd17 would not have taken my comment seriously in the first place, so why apologize then?) This discussion can be closed, yes. --TheRandomIP (talk) 08:09, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- TheRandomIP - By the way, I want you to know that you've done nothing wrong and I don't want you to feel that you're "in trouble" for being incorrect or making mistakes here. You legitimately thought talk pages worked the same way here as a sister Wikipedia project - mistakes happen, they're no big deal, we don't hold legitimate accidents or mistakes against anyone (so long as they understand and don't carelessly repeat them of course lol), and they're a normal part of learning - especially with the sheer amount of guidelines and policies we have here (and that differ from project-to-project or even different languages of the same project... haha). If you don't mind, could you please respond and follow-up with your messages to Nov3rd17 on that talk page and just apologize, let the editor know that you checked and found out that what they were doing is in-fact fine, and offer to help them out if they need it? I just don't want that user to think that they're doing something wrong or that they're in trouble for something when in fact they're not... Do that for me, and we can consider this discussion closed and no harm done :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:21, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm with Oshwah here. English Wikipedia and German Wikipedia are quite different. In any case, posting links to new potential sources and summarizing them is fine. The
- I see, we have fundamentally different viewpoints of what talk pages should be used for and the english Wikipedia seems to be a lot more liberal in that concern. I don't think that every new news article that came out should immediately be posted to the talk page. Imagine if we did that in all articles like in the article about Kim Kardashian and someone would keep a live feed about news articles where she somehow was mentioned. That's not really "collecting sources" as everyone who reads the news once in a while will stumble across those articles. It would be a valuable contribution if those news articles were forgotten or hard to find, but that was not the case here.
- TheRandomIP - When you say, "once a new article is released" - I assume that you mean when a new "reference" or "source" is added? I also don't understand exactly where in Wikipedia's talk page guidelines you're referring to when you say here and here to Nov3rd17 that their use of the article's talk page is not in compliance and that removing it is justified. Can you explain and show me where you're talking about so I can make sure I didn't miss anything? These questions seem perfectly legitimate and "on topic" to me, and I'm quite certain that these questions are what talk pages are for... Please let me know :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 12:16, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- He changes the content of his posting constantly once a new article is released (and sometimes replaces the old content), that's why it looks sparse, but it's a flood of edits. His initial post (before I intervened) was a factual question unrelated to anything in the article. Therefore you can assume that the purpose of his postings are indeed to initiate a discussion about the article's subject but not the article itself. --TheRandomIP (talk) 22:48, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
Rwbest
Rwbest (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) edits only in one narrow topic area. Following a recent dispute on Mark Z. Jacobson (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views), where he edit-warred against four other editors to include a statement-as-fact which is in reality only an opinion of Jacobson sourced solely to Jacobson, I issued a 3RR warning. His response was: I'm only trying to improve the lead of Mark Z. Jacobson which is ridiculous unbalanced, a caricature of Jacobson. But my attempts are severely hindered by reverts by others. Consensus with these others is not likely as long as they prefer the existing lead. I find your message on my talk page intimidating and I won't stop my attempts
. I don't think I need to explain the problem there.
I reviewed his edit history. I conclude that he has a serious problem with WP:OWN. Examples:
(change visibility) 18:03, February 22, 2018 (diff hist) . . (-93) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 827033530 by The Banner (talk)) (Tag: Undo) (change visibility) 10:47, February 22, 2018 (diff hist) . . (-93) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 826902385 by The Banner (talk)) (Tag: Undo) (change visibility) 13:06, February 21, 2018 (diff hist) . . (-93) . . Worldwide energy supply (OR has been adequately addressed in 2016.) (Tag: Undo) (change visibility) 11:13, February 20, 2018 (diff hist) . . (-93) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 826665973 by The Banner (talk)) (Tag: Undo) (change visibility) 08:52, February 20, 2018 (diff hist) . . (-93) . . Worldwide energy supply (Stop this nonsense.) (Tag: Undo)
Five reverts of an {{or}} tag because Rwbest disputes the possibility that Rwbest's edits might be a novel synthesis. It seems to me very likely that Rwbest is active in this field, considers himself to be an expert, may indeeed actually be an expert, but has failed to understand the critical differences between Wikipedia and academic publishing.
In November 2017 he reverted the same tag seven times in a week (some intervening edits removed):
(change visibility) 09:44, November 15, 2017 (diff hist) . . (-58) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 810148432 by The Banner (talk)) (change visibility) 13:37, November 13, 2017 (diff hist) . . (-58) . . Worldwide energy supply (→Trend: adequate sources, see talk page.) (change visibility) 11:01, November 10, 2017 (diff hist) . . (-59) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 809618977 by The Banner (talk)) (change visibility) 08:49, November 10, 2017 (diff hist) . . (-59) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 809475511 by The Banner (talk)) (change visibility) 09:42, November 9, 2017 (diff hist) . . (-59) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 809309032 by The Banner (talk)) (change visibility) 08:58, November 8, 2017 (diff hist) . . (-59) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 809232931 by The Banner (talk)) (change visibility) 10:44, November 7, 2017 (diff hist) . . (-59) . . Worldwide energy supply (Undid revision 809002411 by The Banner (talk))
I think a 1RR restriction is in order: his edit history contains many lengthy series of edit wars. Guy (Help!) 09:21, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/171.248.246.158
Please check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/171.248.246.158 Clear usage of Wikipedia for marketing purposes. Detektyw z Wilna (talk) 10:24, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have blocked the IP address for 48 hours. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:51, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sure they need help: diff. Do I see socks editing the article now? Maybe we have to up the protection level? --Dirk BeetstraT C 10:53, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Further investigation shows that this has been going on for months, using different IP addresses. Alex Shih has blocked the IP range 171.248.240.0/21 for six months. Since this long-term disruptive editing also suggests a likelihood of a return to disruption on the article when the protection ends, I have set protection to three months. (Previously MelanieN had protected it for a week, and when that failed to stop the problem Dirk Beetstra had re-protected it for a month.) The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:05, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, JamesBWatson. SPI was filed here: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Haiyenslna. If similar disruption returns then a edit filter (perhaps Beetstra could help) should probably be requested as this has been going on for a long while now. Alex Shih (talk) 11:13, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Further investigation shows that this has been going on for months, using different IP addresses. Alex Shih has blocked the IP range 171.248.240.0/21 for six months. Since this long-term disruptive editing also suggests a likelihood of a return to disruption on the article when the protection ends, I have set protection to three months. (Previously MelanieN had protected it for a week, and when that failed to stop the problem Dirk Beetstra had re-protected it for a month.) The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:05, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sure they need help: diff. Do I see socks editing the article now? Maybe we have to up the protection level? --Dirk BeetstraT C 10:53, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Alex Shih and Beetstra: Each time I look at this I find there is more to it than I had previously seen. Alex's link to the SPI was very helpful, because that page, and even more so its archive, show that this is a major problem, with numerous accounts and IP addresses used, so that an IP range block is clearly nowhere near enough. Kim Mai 13 is a sockpuppet which evaded semiprotection of the article by the standard trick of ten trivial edits to the account's own talk page before moving on to the article. If more of that happens then we may have to use extended confirmed protection, but as far as I know that is so far the only sockpuppet to have evaded semiprotection, and that one was blocked after three edits to the article, so unless there is more that I haven't seen then moving the protection up to extended confirmed is not yet justified. One to keep an eye on, with the option of further action if and when it becomes apparent that it is necessary, I think. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:56, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Problem is that they also have a history of pissing of multiple editors with the same spammy message to talkpages, asking for help to edit said article. And to AbuseFilter-scan every edit to user-talkpages for addition of that question (throttled as to avoid false positives) ... --Dirk BeetstraT C 13:18, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Beetstra: Yes. When I wrote my comments above I was thinking mainly of the editing to the article, not the talk page spamming, and although I had seen Alex's suggestion of an edit filter I hadn't given it any thought, but now I have. Edit filters should always be very much a last resort, of course, but in this case it seems to me that it shouldn't be too difficult to cut down the overhead from checking irrelevant edits to a very small amount. The first step the filter should take, it seems to me, is to immediately drop any edits that don't link to Maureen Wroblewitz, which at one stroke would rule out something like 99.9999% of edits. Then it could be cut down further by checking for other features of the editing, such as being on user talk pages, asking for help, and so on. In fact my bet is that it would cause less of an overhead than a good many of the existing edit filters, since linking to Maureen Wroblewitz is such an extremely narrow limitation on edits. Perhaps you know far more about edit filters than I do, in which case I would be interested in reading anything you can say in answer to my comments, and perhaps putting me right if I am totally wrong. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 19:33, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Problem is that they also have a history of pissing of multiple editors with the same spammy message to talkpages, asking for help to edit said article. And to AbuseFilter-scan every edit to user-talkpages for addition of that question (throttled as to avoid false positives) ... --Dirk BeetstraT C 13:18, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Special:AbuseFilter/910, set to detect only for now. --Dirk BeetstraT C 08:28, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Beetstra, Special:Contributions/27.75.249.89 is the latest disruption. Looks like they are trying to get around the filter, any thoughts? Alex Shih (talk) 10:11, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Block needed
| Blocked indef. SQLQuery me! 11:31, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Please block Dkoller1769 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for this call for violence against Wikipedia editors, and WP:NOTHERE. Thank you.- MrX 🖋 11:12, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Indef block for that outburst. I've left talk page access enabled, but I would not bet against that situation changing. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:21, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Can someone please deal with a still-open SPI about me?
| Unnecessary forum shopping.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:02, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Good morning, WP!
Over a week ago, this SPI was started by Eggishorn: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Unscintillating falsely accusing me of evading a topic ban from AfD. Roughly at the same time Nightfury opened this ANI discussion which was closed without action seemingly because no one believed the accusations.
At this point no one objective supports the accusations against me in the SPI either, but meanwhile it lingers on unresolved and many editors are citing its existence in unrelated AfDs in order to discount my comments. If someone could settle the SPI perhaps it would help stop this unreasonable well-poisoning behavior. Here are examples:
- [71] "<small> {{A note}} [[User:192.160.216.52]] has an ongoing SPI [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Unscintillating here]] accused of avoiding a [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive974#XfD_Topic_ban_proposal topic ban on all deletion discussions]]. It might be appropriate to disregard his/her vote. </small>" Waddie96
- [72] "'''Note''' The IP address is suspected of socking and an investigatio is under way at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Unscintillating]]. --[[User:Saqib Saqib]] ([[User talk:Saqib talk]]) 14:59, 9 April 2018 (UTC)"
- [73] "'''Note''' The IP address is suspected of socking and an investigatio is under way at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Unscintillating]]. --[[User:Saqib Saqib]] ([[User talk:Saqib talk]]) 14:59, 9 April 2018 (UTC)"
- [74] "'''Note for closing admin''' -- The IP address is suspected of socking and an investigatio is under way at [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Unscintillating]]. Furthermore, it is obvious from the discussion that there's a clear consensus to topic ban the reported users. --[[User:Saqib Saqib]] ([[User talk:Saqib talk]]) 14:56, 9 April 2018 (UTC)"
It's not reasonable to leave this SPI dangling like this to be used as well-poison at AfD by all these editors. Thanks. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 12:48, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Notifications: [75], [76], [77], [78]. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 12:50, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Are you really an Angelino, or are you using a proxy server? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 13:06, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Bugs, as I told you the last time you raised this exceedingly irrelevant question, "Angeleno" is a demonym for people from Los Angeles. Whittier is not Los Angeles. Furthermore, I am not using a proxy server. It seems unlikely that an IP address wholly owned by a university could be used as a proxy, doesn't it? But even if it were true, so what? I haven't broken any rules and yet there's this unsubstantiated, unsubstantiatable SPI dangling there for every unscrupulous AfD editor with no subtantive arguments to use in their fallacious innuendo-based arguments against my positions at AfD. It's not reasonable, and by focusing on irrelevancies you're not helping matters. 192.160.216.52 (talk) 13:16, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Perfection10125 and article Fatus Fee
| Article deleted, salted, and re-creator warned by Black Kite. --Hammersoft (talk) 18:39, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The article Fatus Fee has been created and deleted five times now, starting in 2015 (see log). Twice this has been as a result of a deletion discussion (first, second). Prior to today, the last time it was deleted it was salted for a year due to being repeatedly recreated. The second AfD closed today. In that AfD, I recommended the article be salted again. The AfD was closed as delete, but was not salted (I am not calling out the closing admin on this as making some error; just noting it wasn't salted). Less than an hour after the AfD was closed and the article was deleted, User:Perfection10125, who had created the most recent edition before the 2nd AfD, recreated the article yet again.
I'm recommending that the article Fatus Fee be speedy deleted under WP:CSD#G4, salted, and warning be placed with User:Perfection10125 about recreating articles that have been deleted as a result of a deletion discussion. User:Perfection10125 has been notified of this discussion. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 18:26, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Done Black Kite (talk) 18:37, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Help Needed
| (non-admin closure) OP blocked for block evasion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:55, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I always gets blocked after creating wikipedia account and editing few article as a Sockpuppet. I even don’t know the peoples from whom i’m being sock-puppet. Can anyone help me to create a new account from which wont be a sockpuppetly blocked in future? Is there any help like this? Imma wiki lover person & knows some knowledges about wiki too. If some admin can help me out than i will be grateful to them or some account Creators. 110.44.115.235 (talk) 18:04, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- If you want to appeal your block you should probably do it on your main account that is blocked. Just a thought... CHRISSYMAD ❯❯❯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 18:11, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- And if your main account is blocked, you'll need to go to WP:UTRS to file an unblock request there. RickinBaltimore (talk) 18:13, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- I filed for unblock i have not enough knowledge about UTRS i read the guidelines and submit it pointing out my view but admin declined it. I think he asked me something else my account is user:Iampython please take a look on the issue and help out its been 4 months since i get blocked. 110.44.115.235 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:18, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Please brothers and sisters i need your help. Help me out to unblock my account User:Iampython i had never known other sock-puppet accounts in my life. 110.44.115.235 (talk) 18:28, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
NOTHERE copyvio recreator
| Indeffed by Courcelles, Obviously indef doesn't mean forever and providing they pack it in with the copyvios they can obviously be unblocked but that's between the blocking admin and the editor, Closing anyway. –Davey2010Talk 17:28, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Wdmarket (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) - SPA that repeatedly recreated Egils Straume, leading to a salt. Has now created Egils straume to bypass the restriction. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 14:44, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if WP:NOTHERE applies, but the multiple recreations of copyright violations are not good. Courcelles has blocked indef as promotional. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:56, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Blocked for now, until they promise to stop creating copyright violations. Courcelles (talk) 14:57, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Systematic copyright violation
| Both accounts blocked, all creations deleted. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:05, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Two apparently related users/or one person ISLS Students (talk · contribs) and ISLS Students2 (talk · contribs) are coordinating systematic copyright violation and creating inappropriate pages in rapid succession. Can Admins do the needful? –Ammarpad (talk) 14:39, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
User:180.190.66.43
| (non-admin closure) Blocked. Amaury (talk contribs) 14:30, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A IP named "180.190.66.43 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)" has added misinformation/false information into CBS/Fox Video.
Diffs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CBS/Fox_Video&diff=next&oldid=835478245
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CBS/Fox_Video&diff=next&oldid=835515415
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CBS/Fox_Video&diff=next&oldid=835518749
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CBS/Fox_Video&diff=next&oldid=835534764
This IP has done is trying to claims that Disney now own it but it false information. This IP has done it 5 times!
Other diffs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andi_Mack&diff=next&oldid=835480382
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andi_Mack&diff=next&oldid=835518879
Someone has reported to AIV but they asked to take it to this noticeboard.
Given the misinformation of the CBS/Fox Video page and the disruptive editing on Andi Mack, any admins will be willing to block this IP? 2A02:C7F:963F:BA00:D1AA:6B7B:FE31:F56 (talk) 13:44, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Blocked 72 hours. --NeilNtalk to me 13:58, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Done, please close it. 2A02:C7F:963F:BA00:D1AA:6B7B:FE31:F56 (talk) 13:59, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
NOTHERE
| (non-admin closure) Wrapped up. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:56, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
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Hosseinhezami (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - Mainly here to promote himself. Several autobiographies have already been deleted, but IDHT seems to apply. Kleuske (talk) 12:26, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Quack quack
| Resolved for now. Alex Shih (talk) 14:44, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
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- Moraun (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Levytitan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- University College London (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
Moraun is engaged in a lame edit war to "correct" a figure in the article on University College London, to a value that everyone else says is wrong. While blocked Moraun was for edit warring, a "brand new" editor popped up to make the same edit with the summary restoring article to correct version. I blocked per WP:DUCK. I suspect Moraun is either WP:NOTHERE or not competent. Guy (Help!) 07:48, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- See also Richardmountfourd321(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Polyamorph (talk) 08:44, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
With respect, the new editor was not me. If you would like to verify the difference in IP address, please feel free to do so.
Moraun (talk) 14:15, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Senor Cuete casting aspersions
| (non-admin closure) Senor Cuete blocked for a week by Alex Shih. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:59, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Senor Cuete (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Senor Cuete has been involved in a dispute at Johnny Winter over what to include in the discography. Since he performed two reverts while discussion was underway at Talk:Johnny Winter, I thought it prudent to issue him the standard edit warring notice in the event he needed to be reported to AN/3.
During the course of discussions, Senor Cuete has twice insinuated or accused Ojorojo and I of being sockpuppets, evidently since we agreed on certain points in the dispute, or since we both type spaces after colons (even though Ojorojo doesn't do this). Two days ago, I requested that Senor Cuete retract the accusation and directed him to WP:ASPERSIONS. He indicated his intention of filing an SPI yesterday, but he has edited since then and hasn't done so.
I should note that I have twice conjectured that we are dealing with a language barrier here, owing to Senor Cuete's consistent misreading of text and his poor command of English, which he takes as a personal attack.
I request that the sockpuppet accusation be retracted/removed from the article Talk page, and that Senor Cuete be appropriately directed about the seriousness of casting aspersions while trying to win arguments. Ojorojo in particular is trying to have these articles assessed for Featured status in the future and doesn't deserve to have his reputation besmirched with this nonsense. --Laser brain (talk) 14:54, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have removed the unsubstantiated accusations at Talk:Johnny_Winter#Unauthorized/gray_market_compilations. For a longtime user, the poor editing behaviour and the textbook example of refusal to get the point demonstrated in their participation of the discussions is by no means acceptable. I will issue a warning at the user talk page. Alex Shih (talk) 15:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you Laser brain and Alex Shih for bringing this to a satisfactory conclusion. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:42, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- If you read the talk page in question and the logs you will see that User talk:Ojorojo reverted well-cited material. I reverted him and started a discussion on the Talk page. He again removed the material, without explanation, and without discussing it on the talk page. At this point Laser brain accused ME of edit warring. Another user, mudwater reverted Ojorojo and after this third revert, he and Lazerbrain were forced to discuss the issue on the talk page. In the ensuing discussion both Ojorojo and Lazerbrain made personal attacks against me, accusing me of illiteracy using exactly the same insult - "English is your second language". This is a classic case that one sees all to often on Wikipedia. Editors that engage in all kinds of misbehavior while accusing the other editor of it and citing various Wikipedia policies to prove that the OTHER editor is doing it. Senor Cuete (talk) 00:12, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have blocked the account for one week after their latest string of edits basically doubled down on the disruptive editing behaviour without withdrawing the aspersions as requested by the original poster. Another administrator please feel free to review this block. Alex Shih (talk) 02:09, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- If you read the talk page in question and the logs you will see that User talk:Ojorojo reverted well-cited material. I reverted him and started a discussion on the Talk page. He again removed the material, without explanation, and without discussing it on the talk page. At this point Laser brain accused ME of edit warring. Another user, mudwater reverted Ojorojo and after this third revert, he and Lazerbrain were forced to discuss the issue on the talk page. In the ensuing discussion both Ojorojo and Lazerbrain made personal attacks against me, accusing me of illiteracy using exactly the same insult - "English is your second language". This is a classic case that one sees all to often on Wikipedia. Editors that engage in all kinds of misbehavior while accusing the other editor of it and citing various Wikipedia policies to prove that the OTHER editor is doing it. Senor Cuete (talk) 00:12, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you Laser brain and Alex Shih for bringing this to a satisfactory conclusion. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:42, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
User WeWuzPhoenicians
| (non-admin closure) Report filed at SPI. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:01, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
WeWuzPhoenicians is actively edit warring : [79], [80] and it seems that this user is the blocked IP 151.236.179.140. Please note that this IP was blocked 4 days ago and that the account WeWuzPhoenicians is 4 days old and edits in the same way than the IP. Could please an admin check this ?---Wikaviani (talk) 22:14, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- This needs to be reported at WP:SPI for suspected socks, not here. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 23:51, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Not necessarily. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 00:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for your answers. What would be better ?---Wikaviani (talk) 00:42, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have blocked WeWuzPhoenicians for disruptive editing. If an SPI investigation comes back positive, the block can be extended. Cullen328Let's discuss it 00:48, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for your answers. What would be better ?---Wikaviani (talk) 00:42, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Not necessarily. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 00:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Qifahs17
| User blocked indef as a sock. EdJohnston (talk) 20:25, 7 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Qifahs has only been editing for only three months. During this time, they have created many unreferenced articles, but it is understandable that a new user might not know the importance of WP:V. I have sent eleven messages over weeks, pointing out that WP:Communication is required and that the articles need sources. Qifahs does know how to respond to messages, but has ignored all of mine, not replying or addressing the issue. I've brought this here in the hope that this new user will communicate here as part of a wider conversation, and to emphasise to them the importance of adding sources and communicating. Boleyn (talk) 09:03, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I recognise this username, I am pretty sure when this was created after User:Shafiqabu got banned and I am sure it's the same person. I did message one admin about it believing this was a ban evasion, can't remember which admin know. Govvy (talk) 09:17, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- @MER-C: For the record I had a look and I mentioned my concern to Mer-c about this being the same person. Govvy (talk) 09:36, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- For reference: User talk:MER-C/archives/40#User:Shafiqabu.
- > 15:26, 24 December 2017 MER-C (talk contribs block) blocked Shafiqabu (talk contribs) with an expiration time of indefinite (account creation blocked) (Copyright violations) (unblock change block)
- > 11:51, 25 December 2017 User account Qifahs17 (talk contribs block) was created
- I was wrong for letting this slide. I didn't find any more copyright violations, though. Indeffed as a sock. MER-C 12:13, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Bot mass reversion needed on ~100 articles
| Closing as edits/bot's been fixed etc, –Davey2010Talk 20:19, 7 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This set of edits appears to have systematically broken image thumbnails for about a hundred election articles – could someone mass-revert and investigate? Thanks. Mélencron (talk) 22:18, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- +1 - The bot is removing deprecated syntax however it is indeed breaking images as can be seen here - Why were the infoboxes not updated or atleast checked first ? ...... Not all infoboxes use that layout the bot's changed too, I would suggest blocking the bot until the owner can fix it all. –Davey2010Talk 22:42, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've updated the bots talkpage which should stop the bot from continuing to run the task. If that doesn't stop it for now the bot has the standard please block if required message on its pages so a block could quite happily be used if required. Amortias (T)(C) 22:49, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Davey2010, I'll backcheck {{Infobox election}} templates edited (there weren't many iirc). ~Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 23:51, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ah okay thanks, Not having the first idea about bots I probably shouldn't of complained, Anyway thanks. –Davey2010Talk 00:27, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
map_size=is used by the template, but is being handled in an unexpected way; will investigate. ~Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 00:01, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Fixed map=&map_image=are not strict aliases and are used in slightly different ways. The fix is to simply usemap_image=wheremap=was used. Will back-check the 66 pages and fix going forward. ~Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 00:31, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Mélencron, I don't recall you messaging me nor the bot about this issue. ANI is the last resort, not the first. Second, can you provide example edit(s) which were a problem? ~Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 23:46, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- While you might be technically correct, I think bringing this here or 2 AN is pretty understandable. A malfunctioning bot has the potential to do a lot of damage and so it's understandable to try to get the attention of administrators straight away. Who knows how long it might be before you see a message on your talk page? In this case, I don't think the choice of venue implies any wrongdoing on your part. GoldenRing (talk) 08:26, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Correct. This board is for incidents that require administrator attention; a malfunctioning bot is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be brought here, rather than most of the other nonsense, and it doesn't mean the bot owner is 'in trouble'. It's now fixed, so problem solved. Fish+Karate 09:13, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I agree with GoldenRing and Fish and karate in that coming straight to ANI to report concerns regarding bots and possible issues with their edits is absolutely fine to do so that quick action can be taken if something is indeed going very wrong. That being said, I also understand Tom.Reding's frustration in that, as the bot owner, an ANI notification regarding this discussion would have been appreciated. Nobody did anything wrong here and I of course agree that the creation of an ANI discussion itself shouldn't implicate wrongdoing - it's the the discussion, evidence presented, and the resulting facts found that may determine such (I'm speaking in general, not specifically about this particular discussion). I'll just add that when creating a discussion about concerns with a bot, it's courteous and a good idea in general to notify the bot's "owner" or the editor listed as the bot's manager so they can participate. After all, they are the people who can truly resolve any issues that are found (disabling or blocking the bot aside) :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 11:49, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
A malfunctioning bot has the potential to do a lot of damage
- so having the bot edit for a extra half hour between this original post and the notification on bot talk, which automatically stops the bot, is a good idea? I'm not sure what you're defending, poor policy and/or decisions?-
It's now fixed, so problem solved.
- the same result would have occurred on bot talk. ~Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 13:33, 6 April 2018 (UTC)- Tom.Reding - Whilst I understand your frustration no one really thinks "Oh I'll message the bot owner first" .... Bot issues are usually always bought here so that emergency blocks or stops can be done to stop any further damage, If the bot breaked one image then all for one knows it could've broke thousands or atleast hundreds, But anyway thanks for fixing the issues, –Davey2010Talk 14:21, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Correct. This board is for incidents that require administrator attention; a malfunctioning bot is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be brought here, rather than most of the other nonsense, and it doesn't mean the bot owner is 'in trouble'. It's now fixed, so problem solved. Fish+Karate 09:13, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- While you might be technically correct, I think bringing this here or 2 AN is pretty understandable. A malfunctioning bot has the potential to do a lot of damage and so it's understandable to try to get the attention of administrators straight away. Who knows how long it might be before you see a message on your talk page? In this case, I don't think the choice of venue implies any wrongdoing on your part. GoldenRing (talk) 08:26, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
ResilientWiki is NOTHERE
| ResilientWiki was indefinitely blocked by Edgar181 for making legal threats. (non-admin closure) EvergreenFir (talk) 23:28, 8 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- ResilientWiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User is spamming external links (e.g., [81]) and making personal attacks (e.g., [82]). Seems to be related to the electronic harassment issue. EvergreenFir (talk) 14:50, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Strongly inclined to banninate as a spammer, but there are no edits since the last warning, I think, so let's wait and see if the penny drops. Guy(Help!) 14:57, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I saw your comment, but when I went to try to hold fire I managed to set Twinkle into motion instead of closing it. Yeah, waiting a bit isn't a big deal. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 15:06, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CoryWeagant. I think this is the same person. ~ GB fan 15:11, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would suggest that wixsite.com cold be safely added to the global blacklist: MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist#Proposed additions. It would avoid any potential socking to add that sub-domain. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:45, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
this person is claiming false reports against me making false accusations also, Removing my legitimate edits that I was told I could make by another wiki Admin that went over it. This person must be having a personal effect to the relation in the page I edited. Just added some necessary exgte3rnal links properly the way Wiki asks to be done. The links were relevant and crucial to the specific page to have listed, It would just make no sense for it not to have these specific external links. This person that's editing is being dishonest and making completely false reports and accusations based off of absolutely nothing other then I said he is a liar about my edits which is 100% true. and then right after that now he adds me to this blacklist reports me in the forum on here and then tries to blacklist Wix.com which is a well established and well known platform for website creation. I need support from other admins to investiagte that are not corrupt & dishonest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ResilientWiki (talk • contribs)
- ResilientWiki, you have repeatedly tried to insert an external link to an unreliable website into an article, Electronic harassment. This is wrong for two reasons. We do not add external links into the body of an article, and we do not allow unreliable sources. Please read Wikipedia:External links and Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. As for Wix.com, it is a platform for hosting personally written websites, which lack professional editorial control and are therefore not reliable sources. Please stop this behavior. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 19:09, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Time for a ban. Staszek Lem (talk) 22:40, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- As of today they are still trying to insert a url to a personal web page. - LuckyLouie (talk) 22:46, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- And I think this all caps rant makes the case for a block. - LuckyLouie (talk) 23:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Possible issues at AfD
| And Adoil Descended, JogiAsad, Arif80s, Spasage and مھتاب احمد are topic banned from all deletion discussions (known on en.wiki as "XfD"). The bans can be appealed on WP:AN or WP:ANI in not less than three months. --NeilNtalk to me 21:01, 9 April 2018 (UTC)} New page reviewer right is also removed from Spasage. --NeilNtalk to me 21:28, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but it looks problematic to me. I noticed this when looking at the issue above regarding User:And Adoil Descended. The AfD referred to (where AAD removed a perfectly good G11 speedy) is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Google Tech Mela, and whilst it looks like it is heading for a Delete, now has a number of WP:ITSNOTABLE Keep votes. Looking further, a number of those editors have done the same at other AfDs, spamming "It's notable" at multiple Pakistan-related AfDs - some examples are
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iqbal Jogi
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amb Jogi
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suhai Aziz Talpur (this one was closed as a NAC Keep by User:And Adoil Descended and looks particularly dubious)
Users involved;
- JogiAsad (talk · contribs)
- Arif80s (talk · contribs)
- Spasage (talk · contribs)
- مھتاب احمد (talk · contribs)
There doesn't appear to me any on-wiki canvassing, but it does look suspicious, especially when you look at the contribs of some of those editors. What do others think? Black Kite (talk) 23:13, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- if its not canvassing, and there is no proof of canvassing, then its derogatory using words suspicious and canvassing. Disappointed much with such words are being used here.Jogi Asad Rajpar, Talk to me 20:05, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- It does look very suspicious and almost coordinated to me also. Pinging Mar4d for requesting some potential insight. Alex Shih (talk) 00:30, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment--Some of these users are active on Sindhi Wikipedia (two are sysops) and....... ~ Winged BladesGodric 02:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment -- Anybody please help me understand the issue clearly.--مھتاب احمد (talk) 03:13, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment-How fine is this !vote.I mean, why we don't just dole out XFD-topic bans?!~ Winged BladesGodric 04:35, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Talk about having entrenched wrong ideas about what constitutes stub eligibility - [83],[84],[85],[86]. Can we haz that topic ban as an actual possibility please? --Elmidae(talk · contribs) 07:08, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Check article Kakakhel (tribe) which you posted above as an example. User:Saqib voted to keep it, check this [87]. Then, this goes for him as well ".. having entrenched wrong ideas ..", a quote by you. --Spasage (talk) 19:00, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Spasage's AfD nomination in retaliation: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tehseen Fawad. --Saqib (talk) 08:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Whilst, I mentioned the possibility, I would prefer to let him off with a warning to increase his understanding of our guidelines.
- But, I'm highly confused that how someone with such an apparently poor idea about notability and RS, can constructively patrol new pages, (from the few examples I"ve seen).
- And, that points to the fact that he might be intentionally harassing Saqib by spamming his nominations (as Saqib's example brilliantly hightlights), which is umm......~ Winged BladesGodric 08:37, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I am not in business of harassing anyone. I gave my opinion. About Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Tehseen_Fawad, he is creating very small articles, almost one liner articles with no possibility of expansion, which was bothering me. --Spasage (talk) 19:00, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Talk about having entrenched wrong ideas about what constitutes stub eligibility - [83],[84],[85],[86]. Can we haz that topic ban as an actual possibility please? --Elmidae(talk · contribs) 07:08, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment Thank you for bringing this here. I was working and only got a glimpse. Is my impression correct that they were involved in editing said articles? My impression was one of overlap. Have not looked closely.--Dlohcierekim (talk) 07:25, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Perhaps promospam is acceptable on Sindhi W? Winged's "fine" dif above clearly illustrates the disconnect betweeen their !votes and views here on spam and notability. I guess there, Wikipedia is a business directory and that existence is sufficient. @مھتاب احم:, I think this encompasses the problem is a nutshell-- that y'all see promospam as acceptable. And I have to say And Adoil Descended's advocacy for at least one of these articles (have not been back through the AfD's) is what drew my attention to the problems.--Dlohcierekim (talk) 07:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- CommentThanks for inviting me here. I am being accused of something, I would like to hear apology if you can not prove something. I recently got active on delete page for articles around Pakistan. And after reading comments above, I am really disappointed. Comments and words like "suspicions","suspicious and almost coordinated", "XFD-topic bans", "constitutes stub eligibility", "Spasage's AfD nomination in retaliation", "off with a warning ", "here on spam and notability", According to rules, if you have issue, which are stated on top of this page, you should have comments my talk page. On the deletion request, if I voted to keep something, you have right to reject it or voice your concern. There is a user who is saying, I have no idea of stub. What I understand from above discussion, is that there are few people who can speak, and rest can not. If they talk they are accused of coordinating. If there is a coordination, please prove it. Your idea of coordination seems like, if few people are working on similar articles, it is coordination. In above discussion started for 3 articles ,and one is added later. Out of original three, I only commented on 2 to keep it. I did not vote on Suhai Aziz Talpur. I have issue with editors who put up articles for deletions, without doing any search on the net to make sure that there is difference in badly written article and article which has notability issues. There are many articles on wikipedia which are based on one or two sources. So, number of sources is not an issue, since there are few topics which do not get a lot of attention from every news paper or similar places. Bigger issue is if source is unreliable or paid content. That should not be involved. In 3 examples which are quoted above, all of them have atleast one source which can be considered reliable, rest can support. Proving a source is reliable or not can be discussed on their deletion talk pages. As things go, majority vote wins. I do not have issue if I have minority vote. From above discussion, I only understand one thing, which is not to comment on deletion discussion, because we disagree with you. Which is wrong at every level. I am not arguing with anyone, I am just putting my vote in some of the articles. Others are arguing with me. So, not sure how I am aggressor. For coordination, I just want to state again, that I am not coordinating with anyother user.--Spasage (talk) 13:55, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Spasage:--There is no inalienable right to free-speech over here.
Rest can speak
, provided they display a minimal competence.Secondly, AFDs are not poll(s).And, please mandtaorily read the edit-notice and the linked policies, that is so-prominently visible at every AfD edit-window.~ Winged BladesGodric 15:03, 3 April 2018 (UTC) - Additionally,
number of sources is not an issue, since there are few topics which do not get a lot of attention from every news paper or similar place
flies in the face of GNG and/or most SNG(s), in the areas you have choosen to work upon, which is miles away from being a victim of systemic-bias.~ Winged BladesGodric 15:03, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Spasage:--There is no inalienable right to free-speech over here.
- So, in your opinion there is no place of single source articles? Go and see my comments, I used reference to vote, see my history. This is for all the users who are adding articles for deletion. Do research before putting articles for deletion. It is easy to put article for deletion and it takes a lot of time on discussion. We can save a lot of time, if editor spend some time and see if it is reliable or not. I see lack of judgment in many deletion requests.--Spasage (talk) 15:31, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- User User:Winged Blades of Godric added article Allah Dino Khawaja for deletion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allah Dino Khawaja (2nd nomination). With comments "... Trivial mentions in sources and no significant position held, (which by-default equates to notability)...". I do not know what to make of it. He also goes by AD Khawaja. He is top most officer of second largest Police force in Pakistan. His article is using thenews.com.pk, tribune.com.pk, www.dawn.com, www.geo.tv and many other news paper. He received very large attention. His case went all the way to court because of politics behind his appointments. And this article is up for deletion. Not sure what to make of it. If I put these comments, I will be banned. Another article is for deletion Abdul Majeed (bodybuilder), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abdul Majeed (bodybuilder). He is covered in images.dawn.com and tribune.com.pk, both are leading news papers in Pakistan, not spammy. He is Mr. Pakistan which is highest level of body building competition you can win in Pakistan. In deletion text this is written "Won some local competitions.Not even professionally recognized.Most of sources are spammy". "won some local competitions ", he is Mr. Pakistan. Since, there is proposal for banning me, so not sure what to make of it. --Spasage (talk) 16:33, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allah Dino Khawaja (2nd nomination) and Abdul Majeed (bodybuilder), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abdul Majeed (bodybuilder) both of these AFDs articles have one & more than one reliable sources and both articles subjects are notable, I wonder how its passing the criteria of deletion?. Some neutral Admin should go through the refernces will offcourse find reliable sources and notability. Rest in details is described by the Spasage, is it not a biased nomination, despite of some reliable sources?. Other nominations AFDs are also being contradiction and biased nominations. Jogi Asad Rajpar, Talk to me 21:31, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- So, in your opinion there is no place of single source articles? Go and see my comments, I used reference to vote, see my history. This is for all the users who are adding articles for deletion. Do research before putting articles for deletion. It is easy to put article for deletion and it takes a lot of time on discussion. We can save a lot of time, if editor spend some time and see if it is reliable or not. I see lack of judgment in many deletion requests.--Spasage (talk) 15:31, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment Thanks for yiur kindness to notifying me here. If there any proof of canvassing?, then it should be proved here. Using such words of Promospam, canvassing, suspicious are derogatory for the volunteer Wikipedian. If some users have voted for Keep on one or more AFDs then is it a spam? How its a spam? And what are proofs blamming for Spam, promospam? What are proofs for canvassing?. If a users thinks any AFD meets atleast one reliable source and place a vote of keep, then its right of a user to be given fair chance for participating.Jogi Asad Rajpar, Talk to me 20:24, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Topic ban proposal
I propose
1) that And Adoil Descended (talk · contribs), JogiAsad (talk · contribs), Arif80s (talk · contribs), Spasage (talk · contribs) and مھتاب احمد (talk · contribs) be topic banned from all deletion discussions (known on en.wiki as "XfD") because of ignorance of the English Wikipedia's notability policies, compounded by an unwillingness to learn and bludgeoning of AfD discussions. See the AfD's that Black Kite links to as examples at the top of this thread. The bans can be appealed on WP:AN or WP:ANI when the users can show greater understanding of our notability policies, to the community's satisfaction, in, say, not less than three months.
2) and that the new page reviewer right be removed from Spasage (talk · contribs), per Winged Blades of Godric's concern above, until such time as they can show greater understanding of our notability policies to the satisfaction of an uninvolved admin, to whom they may appeal in not less than three months. Pinging User:Callanecc, who granted the right, in case they would like to comment.
Please discuss below. It's probably best, for clarity, to address my two proposals separately. Of course, if you wish, also address all five users separately. Bishonen talk 16:08, 3 April 2018 (UTC).
- Support both. To clarify my position, I also endorse NPP removal from And Adoil Descended (talk · contribs). --Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:15, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support XfD topic bans based on ignorance/bludgeoning combo. Not sure about the NPP removal - from my random sampling, Spasage actually generally does an okay job there, which is surprising considering their ideas about notability (this might be what Winged Blades of Godric meant above?). --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:25, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support both proposals. Although since the new page reviewer right is being removed per community consensus, Spasage will have to gain community consensus for restoring this user right. Capitals00 (talk) 16:29, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support both proposals. —usernamekiran(talk) 17:00, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Update: Support both, but for a period of 1 year. —usernamekiran(talk) 03:22, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support all per my previous remarks, just writ large, as it were. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 17:20, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support both proposals. —MBL talk 17:19, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment before making decision, consider my record of comments on deletion and record of page I have reviewed. Page review has long history. --Spasage (talk) 17:24, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support - per the salient comments above. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:47, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, both proposals. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:07, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support. A timed ban would also be OK (1 year expiry). They mean well, I think, but this is disruptive. Guy (Help!) 20:41, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support both proposals. --bonadea contributions talk 20:56, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- To develop my reasoning a bit: Yes, it is disruptive from lack of understanding rather than malice, but the end result is negative for the encyclopedia. See for instance this AfD !vote by JogiAsad posted after their post below, which shows that they still don't understand "trivial coverage" versus significant coverage despite the discussion here. Spasage seems to believe that it is a good idea to save poorly referenced articles as stubs, per this and this. Again, I'm sure this is good-faith, but it's still disruptive. I provided a diff for And Adoil Descended's editing in my post above, and there are other relevant diffs in that discussion. The other two users seem to be a little less disruptive, but AfD !votes such as this (from Arif80s) and this make me think that a tban that can be appealed after some set period of time (I'm not that concerned with the length), where the users show in their appeals that they have grasped the fundamentals of verifiability and notability, would be a good idea. --bonadea contributions talk 12:35, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment Disappointed with such a nomination (Topic ban) without sound proofs of Canvassing, Spams, Promospams allegations; I request worthy Admins (Sysop) and conflict resolvers to have neutral judgement of this nomination. I have not canvassed, forced any user to vote on my articles AFDs, and there is no proof mentioned of the allegations mentioned above by the nominators; I was just trying to contest my articles AFDs,and rest participant users who voted on AFDs have tried to conveyed their vote, because they have found the reliable sources on the articles. And is it not suspicious that probably having the biased intention the one user often and randomly proposing my articles for deletion? However those article have atleast one or more than one reliable sources. I am really much disappointed with such nominations and ban. If a article has poor references/reliable sources then anyone can edit, expand, improve the content and references of articles.! If the articles are being nominated in such targetted speedily deletion without going through the refernces and improving it, I think Wikipedia will lost dedicated, enthusiast volunteer contributors. Rest is upon the Admins and mediators to ask them for proofs of the allegations raised here. bytheway I'm really much disappointed with such happenings here on Wikipedia (the sum of all human knowledge) which I think is under control of some lobbying, biased nominators.Jogi Asad Rajpar, Talk to me 21:18, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- Strong support--To prevent messes like this AFD, where 2 of the subjects participated, with their usual nonsense, thus generating a sheer volume of bovine excrement, which negated the prospect of the proper policy-based close.~ Winged BladesGodric 05:25, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support topic ban, with no opinion on the other editor. Natureium (talk) 14:36, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support to both editors. Like others have said a topic ban will help to stop messing around with XfD discussions, as well of the removal the new page reviewer right to one editor. 2A02:C7F:963F:BA00:D1AA:6B7B:FE31:F56 (talk) 20:53, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
| Detailed (7,000 bytes / 7000 characters) exposition of Spasarge's position. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 14:21, 6 April 2018 (UTC) |
|---|
| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Keep votes: 8 (Tahir mq, امین اکبر, Arif80s, Ma'az, Hindustanilanguage, Mar4d, Samee, Störm) Delete votes: 2 (Saqib, Winged Blades of Godric) and the list of people who you want to ban are: Adoil Descended, JogiAsad, Arif80s, Spasagea nd مھتاب احمد In the list, I found only Arif80s, I did not find anyone else. I was not part of it. If you go in detail of this AFD, Arif80s only voted once. There were only two votes against it and they were Saqib, Winged Blades of Godric. Here are more details on AFDs. Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Memon Abdul Ghafoor Keep votes: 1 (JogiAsad) Delete votes: 2 (Saqib, Winged Blades of Godric) Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Business incubators in Pakistan Delete votes: 2 (Ajf773, Saqib) Request put by Winged Blades of Godric - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abdul Majeed (bodybuilder) Keep votes: 2 (JogiAsad, Spasage) Delete votes: 2 (Saqib, Winged Blades of Godric) Request put by Winged Blades of Godric - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allah Dino Khawaja (2nd nomination) Keep votes: 3 (86.17.222.157, JogiAsad, Spasage) Delete votes: 1 (Winged Blades of Godric) Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ismail Shah Keep votes: 1 (Spasage) Delete votes: 3 (Winged Blades of Godric, Saqib, Narky Blert) Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nadia Umber Lodhi Delete votes: 1 (Saqib) Speedy Delete votes: 1 (Winged Blades of Godric) Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mehrooz Waseem Keep votes: 1 (Spasage) Delete votes: 3 (Saqib, Bonadea, Winged Blades of Godric) Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JW Forland Pakistan Keep votes: 1 (Spasage) Delete votes: 4 (Winged Blades of Godric, D4iNa4, Saqib, Ma'az) Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amb Jogi Keep votes: 6 (Saqib, 31.173.188.190, Spasage, Atlantic306, مھتاب احمد, Arif80s) Delete votes: 1 (Winged Blades of Godric) Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iqbal Jogi Keep votes: 5 (Saqib, 31.173.188.190, Arif80s, Spasage, مھتاب احمد) Request put by Saqib - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Haroon Janjua Keep votes: 3 (Ma'az, Spasage, Legacypac) Delete votes: 3 (Saqib, Winged Blades of Godric, Störm) In above 12 AFDs, Spasage 8 keep votes, Saqib voted for delete 11, Winged Blades of Godric voted for delete 10. and 9 times both Saqib and Winged Blades of Godric voted on delete. Arif80s only 3 times Keep. Adoil Descended did not even voted. JogiAsad voted keep 3 times. مھتاب احمد 2 keep. Arif80s & Spasage 2 keeps, مھتاب احمد and Spasage 2 keeps, JogiAsad and Spasage 2 keep votes. This is what stats says. Here is my voting record for full disclosure: Keep Dana Meadows, Kaghan - result keep, Saqib also voted keep Kakakhel (tribe) - result keep, Saqib also voted keep Amb Jogi Iqbal Jogi Haroon Janjua Ismail Shah Mehrooz Waseem Daily The Patriot JW Forland Pakistan Allah Dino Khawaja Abdul Majeed (bodybuilder) Delete Samoon Ahmad,MD Lal Salam (party) ARY Digital Tower intially I was accused of coordination, I dont see any coordination with anyone in delete or keep vote. For some of the articles above, if result is delete, I am ok with it. In cases where I voted yes, I provided reference. --Spasage (talk) 15:06, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
My first AFD comment was on Amb Jogi on 28 March. Between 28 and 31st March, I voted on 5 AFDs, 2 were AFD resulted in keep (Dana Meadows, Kaghan , Kakakhel (tribe)), Saqib voted Keep in both and 3 are still in discussion. When case against me was building, some editors mention my vote on Dana Meadows, Kaghan , Kakakhel (tribe) as disruptive. On 31st march, Saqib ask for help from [User_talk:Winged_Blades_of_Godric#AfDs] on three articles Amb Jogi, Iqbal Jogi and Google Tech Mela. Google Meal is deleted, I did not even vote on it. IP user 31.173.188.190 pointed out Canvassing between User:Winged Blades of Godric and Saqib at [88] and [89] I did vote on Amb Jogi and Iqbal Jogi. On 2nd April I was accussed of coordinating with someother users. If you see above, my pattern of voting does not match with anyone else and no coordination was done on Amb Jogi and Iqbal Jogi. In case of Iqbal Jogi, User:Winged Blades of Godric says he is on the edge between delete and keep. And very interesting comments were made by User:Aziz Kingrani.User:Winged Blades of Godric on the edge but I am disruptive. In case of Amb Jogi, User:Atlantic306 raised some very good points and he is not nominated ones who are coordinating, he made first comment on 30 March. After this 2nd April, few examples were taken out and presented as example of disruptive behaviour. All those AFD discussions are still open and editors are commenting on it. So, even if you remove me and other people who are recommended for ban and coordination, there are other people who are against delete and in few cases, are very vocal. Saying same thing which is considered as disruptive in my case. In all the places where I voted, my vote is not alone, there are more vocal editors supporting it. I am lone voice in Ismail Shah, Mehrooz Waseem and Daily The Patriot. In all cases, I gave my reasong with reference and ok with results. Anyone can be on wrong side of majority vote. It must have happened to editors here. People can have different opinion, which may contradicts other. This is whole reason for discussion. But painting it like this is something else. This look more like punishment and ganging up, then anything else. Kind of comments people have written above are so distrubing and upsetting. It is written above that I am harrassing, user User:Winged Blades of Godric writting aggressive comments like " .. some sort of bot, which generates a strong keep or keep or delete ..", in [90] , [91] [92]. Saqib and User:Winged Blades of Godric are also corrdinating in this [93], which is considered "ok", but for the people who never even worked before have to give explainations. They are given pass what every they say/do. According to voting pattern, Saqib and User:Winged Blades of Godric are corrdinating in their votes, not anyone else. In Pakistan AFD, there are many articles which are up for deletion. Why, only places where user User:Winged Blades of Godric and Saqib are involved, there is tension and aggression. See discussion which are happening at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Beacon_askari_school_system, Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/M.E_Foundation_Secondary_School and Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/TES_Public_School_(2nd_nomination) for example. Why there is open discussion happening there and not AFDs where they are invovled.--Spasage (talk) 20:11, 5 April 2018 (UTC) |
- TL/DR, sorry. It may be slightly unfair, but if you are not able to produce a one-paragraph executive summary of the above, I fear there's hardly anyone who will go to the trouble to dig for the point in there. To clarify the basic issue, it is contended that your lack of understanding of notability guidelines, combined with a readiness to ride that very lack hard in AfD discussions, makes you a net negative in deletion-related venues. Competence problems, fundamentally. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 06:51, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- This thread has been inactive for a while. Will somebody closs it before it gets archivedvplease? —usernamekiran(talk) 02:14, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Black Kite:.
- @Black Kite: fixing the above unsigned ping by Saqib. —usernamekiran(talk) 18:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Black Kite:.
AfD note
I have relisted the following
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amb Jogi
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Iqbal Jogi
- although I suspect the AfDs will both be deleted and re-listed when this is closed. Black Kite (talk) 23:12, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
User 198.254.254.12 and the Alliance Party of Ontario
| (non-admin closure) Wrapped up. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:02, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- User 198.254.254.12 has repeatedly changed the information on the Alliance Party of Ontario page to reflect their agenda, requesting that party members be interviewed, posting on the Alliance talk page that the entry is "fake news", and indicated on my talk page that I am "simply a propagandist who must defend their lies in their editing as you have made" (see User talk:HamOntPoliFiend for reference). Not sure what to do about this. Any help would be appreciated, thanks. HamOntPoliFiend (talk) 14:19, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- @HamOntPoliFiend: The IP was blocked for three months by Bbb23. I have blocked the registered editor for 24 hours for edit warring and warned them about COI and copyvios. I have also revdeleted the copyvios. Please report back if there is any further disruption. --NeilN talk to me 16:01, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
User:83.136.45.154
| IPs blocked and attacks etc revdelled. –Davey2010Talk 14:31, 8 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This IP has made a [[REDACTED - Oshwah] racist personal attack] against User:Oshwah -- Pi (Talk to me!)
- It's an IP hopper that's been trolling at me all day - it's been blocked :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 00:19, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I just spotted another page that I believe is a linked IP, possibly included in a range block,(I don't fully understand IP ranges):User_talk:83.136.45.40. (See the edited warning from Oshwah) I see that the other comment was suppressed, and perhaps this should be too. -- Pi(Talk to me!) 02:00, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Zapped. Thanks. Courcelles (talk) 02:03, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I just spotted another page that I believe is a linked IP, possibly included in a range block,(I don't fully understand IP ranges):User_talk:83.136.45.40. (See the edited warning from Oshwah) I see that the other comment was suppressed, and perhaps this should be too. -- Pi(Talk to me!) 02:00, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Misuse of administrative tools by Fram
| I endorse the original close, with my full explanation below. There is zero chance of any sanctions coming from this. (The usual no objections etc.) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
| Consensus here is that Fram has not abused their tools in any way, shape or form, As noted by Ritchie and others we should be focusing on improving articles not wasting our time on timesinks such as this report. (If anyone believes this is something I shouldn't close I obviously have no objections to it being reopened) NAC. –Davey2010Talk 00:57, 8 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Administrators are expected to be impartial and to lead by example. They have certain powers that other editors lack and one of these is the ability to delete pages. Fram has been using this power in a targeted way while being WP:INVOLVED with the creator of the pages being deleted.
(Personal attack removed) Recently Elisa.rolle has been such an editor. Some of the 700 articles created by Elisa.rolle contain copyright violations, and in her defence Elisa has stated that she thought the sources she had copied were in the public domain. On 31 January 2018, Fram blocked Elisa indefinitely. Fram is therefore INVOLVED with regard to Elisa.rolle. On 12 March 2018, Elisa was unblocked by TonyBallioni, with the agreement of Fram.
During February and March, Fram started to go through articles created by Elisa systematically, speedily deleting more than thirty of them, all for G12 infringements. Fram did not at any time delete part of the text of an article and perform a rev-del, despite G12 being defined as being restricted to unambiguous copyright infringements “where there is no non-infringing content on the page worth saving”.
When, as a new page patroller, I find an article that I think should be speedily deleted under G12, I nominate it for deletion, notify the creator and await the final decision of an admin. But that is not how Fram does it. Fram acts unilaterally, the article is simply deleted with no notification to the creator. On 9 March 2018, Fram deleted six of Elisa’s articles under G12 in the space of 28 minutes. These six articles would be permanently gone from Wikipedia had not Megalibrarygirl restored two of them on 18 March with the edit summary (Not seeing the unambiguous copyright infringement). Another was restored by Victuallers on 12 March with the removal of some text followed by a rev-del. So that’s a failure rate of 50% by Fram on 9 March, without even considering whether the other three articles really warranted deletion. (Misuse of tools and abuse of power)
Several of Fram’s deletions under G12 were in relation to articles translated from other language Wikipedias which lacked attribution. The policy here states “nor is a mere lack of attribution of such works a reason for speedy deletion.” Fram apparently thinks differently, and the articles Torcuato Benjumeda, Max Landsberg and Christian Ludwig von Kaphengst were speedily deleted, a use of G12 that TonyBallioni stated made him “cringe” [94]. Afterwards, I provided Fram with a list of sixteen articles in the English Wikipedia which had been translated from other language Wikipedias without attribution, expecting Fram to be non-partisan and delete them, but [95] Fram declined to take any action. (Misuse of tools and abuse of power)
The systematic deletion of an editor’s creative work is very demoralizing, and Elisa-rolle retired from Wikipedia. A similar course of action occurred in 2016 when Fram forced the retiral of another “targeted” editor. Nvvchar was criticised and humiliated at DYK by Fram for inaccuracies in his articles, and stated that he would no longer submit the articles to DYK. At this point, Fram started demoting Nvvchar’s GAs, unilaterally removing the GA status from them without an appropriate review process or any reference to the good article criteria. When three GAs had been demoted in quick succession, Nvvchar announced his retirement. At this point Fram ceased demoting Nvvchar’s GAs, with sixty or so remaining. The only other time when Fram seems to have demoted GAs was in connection with another “targeted” editor. (Abuse of power)
Fram seldom does revision deletions, but when he does, they are pretty incompetent. Three of the last four he has done are Ramoche Temple (changed visibility of 44 versions but not all the necessary ones, and left the copvio in place), Iris Pavey Gilmore (visibility of 2 revisions changed when it should have been 6) and New Zealand Sea Cadet Corps (the present version, restored by Fram, is a flagrant copyright violation). So, a 75% failure rate here. As well as this, Fram is not concerned with the consequences of his actions. DYK hooks are pulled from the main page [96] and GAs demoted with a complete disregard for how the actions make more work for other editors.[97] {Incompetence and failure to lead by example)
So, I am accusing Fram of incompetence, the misuse of administrative tools and abuse of power. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:47, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have deleted the most egregious of your personal attacks on Fram (as it was completely withut evidence), and unless you can provide actual evidence that Fram "targets" other editors, I'd suggest you remove some of those parts as well. Black Kite (talk) 18:53, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Cwmhiraeth: your statement
"On 31 January 2018, Fram blocked Elisa indefinitely. Fram is therefore INVOLVED with regard to Elisa.rolle. "
is wrong. Taking administrative action against a user does not make that administrator INVOLVED. ("an administrator who has interacted with an editor or topic area purely in an administrative role … is not involved") All the misconduct you claim which stems from your misunderstanding of this basic premise of INVOLVED is therefore not prohibited. Jbh Talk 18:59, 7 April 2018 (UTC)- Add:
"Fram declined to take any action. (Misuse of tools and abuse of power)"
— No user with advanced permissions can be required to use them in a given instance. This is basic stuff. Also, in all of the "targeting" claims, did the GA meet the criteria for de-listing? If so, finding a patch of things to be done or following up on an editor who is making errors is basic to the maintenance of Wikipedia. Looks like what you are claiming is an "abuse of power" is you thinking Fram is being a jerk. Whether that is so or not is immaterial. Acting like a jerk is not "abuse of power" unless the person is, you know… using their power to be a jerk. From this and the other responses here you may want to seriously consider either reformulating your case to include actual instances of abuse of tools or withdraw it. The selective misquoting mentioned by Black Kite tells me this could rapidly go down hill for you if you continue without solid evidence to back up your claims. Jbh Talk 19:48, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Add:
- My unblock had nothing to do with the validity of the initial block but was explicitly a last chance. The article that was G12’d (where I “cringed” over an attribution-failure G12, but also endorsed using it at the DRV) contained content from print sources that was a close paraphrase. I don’t want to get too involved with this, but wanted to comment on the two things involving me. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:10, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I was about to mention this. Cwmhiraeth has selectively quoted you - the full sentence was "I typically cringe when we G12 something for lack of edit summary attribution, but it is within the norm". Also, the diff about pulling DYK hooks is over 18 months old and links to a conversation where other editors agreed with Fram's actions. The following link (about demoting GAs) leads to a completely polite conversation about it. The section about Nvvchar doesn't have a single diff. Cwmhiraeth, if you're going to post screeds like this, you actually need really good diffs confirming each point. Black Kite (talk) 19:14, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Black Kite: It is very difficult to provide evidence of motive because only the person doing an action knows why they are doing it. With regards to Nvvchar,
- Kadmat Island was promoted GA at 10:54, 31 August 2016 and delisted by Fram at 12:36, 31 August 2016
- Kaunakes was promoted at 10:32, 30 August 2016 and delisted by Fram at 13:37, 31 August 2016
- Sacred Jackfruit Tree was promoted at 06:22, 1 August 2016 and delisted by Fram at 08:21, 1 September 2016.
- Nvvchar archived his talk page at 10:02, 1 September 2016 and announced his retirement at 11:54, 1 September 2016. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:03, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, but you can't ascribe motive without evidence. As for those GAs, Fram explained why he de-listed all three on the talkpage and having read them I'd have to agree with him - all three articles contained factual errors. Black Kite (talk) 20:16, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Cwmhiraeth, I would suggest you of all people do not want to open up a discussion about competence. Only in death does duty end (talk) 19:25, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- While there are long-standing complaints about Fram which may or may not be justified, I don't see anything new here that justifies any possible action at ANI. Deleting articles WP:G12 from an author they blocked for copyright infringement is not WP:INVOLVED; both are purely administrative actions, and removing the offending copyright violations is a necessity. I see no reason to care about diffs from 2016 here. I'd advise Cwmhiraeth specifically not to pursue another ARBCOM case against Fram. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:19, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would also suggest that Cwmhiraeth move on from this matter. 331dot (talk) 20:21, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- As you all know, there was a declined Arbcom case involving Fram recently, where he said he would dial back the aggressiveness a bit, and so far I think he's stuck to his end of the bargain. The G12s are within administrator discretion; I have restored a few (while copyediting all the copyright violations out) and worked with Elisa on them - for example, the recent appearance of Laura Barney Harding at DYK. This is what we should be aiming to do. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:30, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think this entire complaint stems from an incorrect assumption: that because Fram blocked Elisa.rolle, Fram is therefore INVOLVED with her. But my understanding of WP:INVOLVED is:
therefore Fram was not forbidden to act in an administrative capacity in regard to Elissa.rolle or her edits.Further, to look at it from the other direction, Elissa.rolle has been posting copyvios both here and on Commons ever since she showed up, and her excuse is always that she didn't realize they weren't in the public domain. In my opinion, it is the cumulative behavior of Elissa.rolle that needs to be examined, with an eye towards an indefinite ban for continued deliberate posting of copyright violations, not the behavior of Fram, who may be rough around the edges, but in this case is in the right. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:48, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[A]n administrator who has interacted with an editor or topic area purely in an administrative role ... is not involved and is not prevented from acting in an administrative capacity in relation to that editor...
- This is (again) not the correct venue for this report, and nothing is going to come of it other than commiserating and bickering at best. ANI is not an alternative venue for reports of administrative misconduct. GMGtalk 00:51, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- In view of the fact that this thread has been closed prematurely, with many of the concerns I have raised remaining unaddressed, I would like to suggest that Fram submits themselves to an RfA, a reappraisal which will demonstrate whether they still have the confidence of the community. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:57, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Closing down debate will not end it. The fact that individually each of these actions can be justified does not remove the case that has been laid out here of victimisation. You can never "know" someones motives, but they can be surmised. The arguments that are presented here are not trivial and putting a lid on them will only work for a time. Lots of long standing admins do not inspire witness editors to feeling that we are witnessing bullying and injustice. I do hope that we won't see this argument represented as a diff in a later discussion. Victuallers (talk) 08:48, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- With such a nebulous list of claims going back years, not a single diff showing an actual misuse of admin tools, and a number of refutations from respected editors (including ones who are not known as turners of blind eyes when it comes to admin actions), there was no chance of any sanctions coming from this. There are better things to be doing with our time this fine Sunday, and I will reclose this. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:42, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Just to expand on my close reason a little... If anyone believes an admin should be stripped of their tools, it is long established that ArbCom is the only body able to do it. I disagree with that myself, and I support the existence of a community desysop procedure - but we don't have that, and this noticeboard can only work within current policy and consensus. I see Cwmhiraeth has tried that before and it was rejected, so the only thing I can suggest is that a far tighter request with actual diffs of actual abuse would be needed, not the vague rehashing of old allegations from years ago. If Cwmhiraeth wishes to ask Fram to undertake a voluntary new RfA, Fram's talk page would seem to be the appropriate place to request that. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:53, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Anonymous user carrying out disruptive edits over a period of months on different IPs
I'd like some help with an IP user who has been carrying out disruptive edits over a period of at least 5 months on at least 3 IPs. Two blocks and numerous warnings have all been ignored. The user does not appear to have deliberately switched IPs or attempted to conceal their identity (hence my not opening an SPI) and the number of innocuous edits suggests that the user is incapable of being a constructive contributor rather than choosing not to be one (hence me not going to AIV). But he/she/it is very persistent.
The IPs are: 185.176.244.75 (active since March), 185.176.244.69 (February-March), 185.176.244.73 (November-January - blocked twice). All of the edits have been to professional wrestling articles and many use a nonsensical stream of words in the edit summary ([98]), [99], [100] - one example from each IP).
The recent disruptive edits have taken the form of adding completely made-up information ([101], [102], [103]), editing external links so they no longer go to a valid URL ([104], [105], [106]) and deleting cited information for no apparent reason ([107], [108], [109], [110]) - all examples taken from the active IP's activities in the last seven days. ŞůṜīΣϹ98¹Speak 00:38, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- The user in question appears to have just started anew under a completely different IP - 2600:100D:B129:C126:7012:AB30:21A9:7002 - first three edits (all with usual edit summary) have been to incorrectly alter links so they don't link to anything ([111] [112]) and add made-up crap [113]. Changing IPs within an hour of me filing an ANI report seems awfully convenient. ŞůṜīΣϹ98¹Speak 01:30, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- IPs 185.176.244 are coming from Norway, most likely a public computer such as a library or some school computer. The final IP is a personal device, a phone or a touchscreen pad. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 03:12, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Need help checking some pages for copyvio, botched class assignment?
I stumbled across a nexus of copyvio in userspace... a Checkuser by zzuuzz turned up 200 more suspect pages. The full list is at Special:Permanentlink/835269863#Copyvios_in_userspace:_class_assignment?. Not all of these pages are copyvio, but the ones that are are very blatant. Your help and flamethrowers are very much appreciated.
I don't think these accounts are socks, but more likely a botched class assignment (geez, this brings back bad memories). Hopefully the deletions will get the message across, but I'm not particularly optimistic. MER-C 17:20, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- why don't we just nuke the whole thing - just looking through: duplicate of existing article; again, just ugh useless junk, almost entirely copyvio; copyvio; junk that is somehow copyvio; copyvio - That sample of 5 pages is 80% copyvio and 100% junk. Galobtter (pingó mió) 17:49, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'd back nuking it all. Doug Wellertalk 18:27, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Me three.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:40, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- No objections from me. I have a couple of additional observations - these edits are all definitely related, made on the same day by multiple people from the same place. What I didn't mention earlier is that there were 381 accounts, many of which haven't yet edited. I'll have to review them again in a few days. -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:43, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've deleted about 20 of these, none of them had any redeeming value. Nuking is fine with me. MER-C 19:07, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've checked out five at random, and got 2 copyvios, 2 duplicates of existing articles, and 1 that consisted of a single line. My opinion: "Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure." Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:04, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'd back nuking it all. Doug Wellertalk 18:27, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have been through the lot and deleted most as copyright infringement. If someone wants to go and notify the creating users about the deletions please do so. (As I will not bother) I don't expect that we will get any articles at all from this, even though a very few are trying to write original text. Perhaps several of these students will learn some wikimarkup skills. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Deletions not working
| Fixed now. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:30, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Just a heads up that deletion is not working at the moment - see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Unable to delete anything. (Thought I'd mention it here too as this gets a lot more views.) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:03, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Looks like it is back up after a break of about forty minutes. Lankiveil (speak to me) 09:24, 10 April 2018 (UTC).
Retired editor is a sock master?
| Article has been protected and the account in question has been blocked.(non-admin closure) —JJBers 17:58, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recently, I have been reverting a number of edits to 2018 in Taiwan (edit talk history links watch logs) for WP:NOTNEWS, as seen in the edit history. Today, Chinese Wikipedia administrator Outlookxp stated on my talk page that edits made to that page are sock puppets of Jessechi. The accused editor has retired from English Wikipedia, and I am unsure if it is appropriate to report them directly to SPI or which account to notify. If an editor with more experience here is willing to determine where best to place {{ANI-notice}}, please do so. Vycl1994 (talk) 17:21, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Notice is unnecessary. Jessechi is a prolific sock-puppeteer on Chinese Wikipedia, see LTA page (in Chinese). I have semi-protected 2018 in Taiwan to see if it will stop non-autoconfirmed socks from editing the page, and have blocked A8756 accordingly as their editing pattern alone is destructive. Alex Shih (talk) 17:48, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Alex Shih does similar administrative action need to be taken against the other accounts listed on my talk page to prevent Jessechi from using them? Vycl1994 (talk) 18:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
BrillLyle
| User has been warned by Bishonen, and has explicitly agreed to end their harassment of Andy, Michael Mandiberg, Art+Feminism, and to assume good faith from now on. BrillLyle is reminded that should they be unable to keep these commitments, I expect that the judgement of ANI will be harsh. That being said, there is nothing further to be achieved in this discussion. Lankiveil (speak to me) 09:14, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Brill Lyle has just been blocked for three days on Wikidata after I and others complained about her behaviour - "Stalking and Harassment" - there. One of the other's complaints was "BrillLyle has a history of using the deletion process as a tool of harassment"
.
It's therefore hard to see how Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 April 7#Andy Mabbett is not an act of retaliation. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:34, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Honestly, I am just completely bewildered and shocked that a redirect like this exists. I inadvertently stumbled upon it when I was looking at the very long block log you have here and on Wikidata. Beyond the current situation with me and others that you have, I think anyone looking at this redirect would have to say that it has no place on Wikipedia. -- Erika aka BrillLyle (talk) 16:37, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- There's a circumstantial case that it's retaliatory, but I accept BrillLyle's statement of making the RfD nomination in good faith. From a quick glance, Mabbett may be more notable as a Wikipedia editor than as part of that publication. I do recommend BrillLyle refrain from further comment on the proposal. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:24, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I will say the same here as I said at the MfD:
I am actually surprised BrillLyle did not nominate the target article along with the redirect. Jbh Talk 18:24, 7 April 2018 (UTC)So long as we have an article on the publication the redirect is good. I do, however, question the notability of the publication. I see several sources but, on first inspection, none look like they could be called independent, third party reliable sources. I am also am concerned that, while there are four publishers all of the positions in the infobox read Andy Mabbett et. al.. Seeing a Wikipedia editor's name five times in ~160 word article, of which the same editor is a major contributor raises some red flags to me. When that same editor is listed as an author on 8 of the articles 14 sources those flags turn to flashing lights and blaring klaxons. I'd AfD it but I do not have the resources for a good WP:BEFORE or the patience to perform one right now.
- I'm pretty unimpressed by Brill Lyle's conduct in this context. It's not something I'd block for, especially not an experienced editor with a clean block log, but I do think it's is an obvious and egregious importation of external conflicts into Wikipedia and a misuse of RFD. It's unacceptable as such, and I have warned Brill Lyle. No prejudice to any other admin action. Bishonen talk 19:21, 7 April 2018 (UTC).
- As a data point, this is not the first example of poor conduct on BrillLyle's part. She recently nominated for deletion an article I created (the article was kept) in what appeared to me to be retaliation for her article being deleted. She and I have clashed at a few articles because I've found problems with citations she's added to articles (in particular, citations which do not support the text; the text may or may not be true but the citation she added doesn't support it which is an insidious V problem). Examples at Shore Fire Media [114] [115][116] and Ann Powers ([117][118]. (To be clear, I found the problems at Shore fire media and went to Ann Powers to see if there were problems there; I declared that I'd done this to be transparent. This may have been a mistake... but if I'd said nothing, I don't know if the situation would have gone any better). I have made every effort to be respectful and polite and collaborative and BrillLyle responded very aggressively, telling me that
[I am] a menace and should be stopped
[119], and that[I am] over-editing and over-working this page
[120] and that[I] continue to be a menace. {I] delete, that's all [I] do. And [I] don't understand basic things. [I] again show [I] don't know what [I am] doing when it comes to citations.
[121] and was just generally nasty. I suspect that this type of OR/V problem exists on other articles BrillLyle has expanded (I found some in her article that had been recently deleted, which may have been part of the reason for the AfD retaliation) but have hesitated to look into them because of the aforementioned conduct. Ca2james (talk) 20:34, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
SPI filed: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/BrillLyle. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:29, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
BrillLyle's harassment continues: [122]. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:13, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- continuing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:46, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- In good faith I have cleaned up and significantly improved The Amazing Pudding article, an article that is a redirect to Andy Mabbett, and honestly an article that he should not have started and should not be editing, due to the fact that it is clearly (at least in my opinion) a conflict of interest. Whether or not the publication was still being published or not. But despite these facts, I took the time and energy to fix some of the concerns of puffery and fancrufting I think were apparent in the The Amazing Pudding article. Instead of having a modicum of decency and appreciating this work, Andy is choosing here to see this as an attack on him. This is a clear display of an inability to be collaborative and collegial. It is a display of pownership too. This reaction and behavior on Andy's part in starting this ANI as well as his continued linking to other attacks on me, and then presenting himself as the beleaguered one seems to be oddly atonal. Like Dolly says, get off the cross, we need the wood. I am a huge music fan so improving and adding citations to support notability to this article was a continuation of my interests and ongoing effort to improve and to add content to Wikipedia. That is the through-line to my editing experience on Wikipedia. Andy misunderstands this and more importantly misrepresents this. It is inaccurate and lacking fact. -- Erika aka BrillLyle (talk) 18:33, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- At this point @BrillLyle: should withdraw from further edits to articles related to Andy until the open AfD is closed and this thread is archived. If she does not, I will have to make a proposal that would force her to do so. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would agree. And continuing to edit The Amazing Pudding then asking if Andy should be editing there [123] is provocative and seems disingenuous. The best way forward is to stop editing articles Andy is editing until this is cleared up which will protect everyone's reputation.(Littleolive oil (talk) 18:56, 8 April 2018 (UTC))
Further to User:Ca2james's point about WP:V above, BillLyle has recently added to The Amazing Pudding "Mabbett used much of his work in The Amazing Pudding as the starting point and basis for three books on Pink Floyd"
This is pure supposition; false; and is not said in any of the works to which BL has cited it. Valid references were removed in [124], leaving facts either uncited or cited to works which do not support the statements. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:53, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
"Journalist Stuart Maconie wrote a six page feature on The Amazing Pudding in the April 1993 issue of Q."
is also false; and not said in the work to which it is cited. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:19, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Andy, it was actually in one of the reviews of your work. I was only trying to be helpful. I know I improved the entry and made sure notability was established. If you continue to see this as a personal attack, it's your problem. It is clear you have a vested interest in this article. Your citations were bellybutton facing and concerning, which is why the article is better with them removed. I will stop adding content and improving the entry, as I can't win here. I don't have a dirty agenda. It's too bad you see that in everyone. It is not what is happening here. I give up. There's no way to make you happy here, obviously. -- Erika aka BrillLyle (talk) 19:01, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I was going off what you and others discussed about the Q article. Again, just trying to be helpful. If it's wrong, then fix it. Honestly, if you have all of the materials in your possession, you should scan them and ask a neutral third-party editor to add them to support the article. I firmly believe that since this was a publication where money was exchanged and you were directly involved, it is not appropriate for you to edit the entry yourself. At minimum, put the edit request with full citations on the Talk page and an editor can do it for you. But I think it's clear you should not be editing the article. It's a COI, full stop.
- And thanks for being so uncollegial and uncollaborative here. I was trying to be nice and support this article you created. I find your responses here and elsewhere to be proof positive that you are only interested in fighting and having conflict. I was trying in good faith to collegially and collaboratively improve Wikipedia. You are assuming bad faith here where it didn't exist. I'm done now. Good luck with everything. -- Erika aka BrillLyle (talk) 19:30, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Pigsonthewing those were some of the types of errors I saw: ones where BrillLyle had added text that wasn't supported by the cites already there and ones where new cites were added that didn't support the text she'd also added. She's said something about curating citations (I can find the diff if need be) and how she could help me with that so I don't think she sees citations as part of WP:V. She's also said that personal conversations with BLP subjects are suitable sources (again I can find the diff) so I'm not sure she understands WP:RS. I'd tried to work with BrillLyle on these issues but that went nowhere and was deeply unpleasant. She does a lot of work on BLPs so an approach that doesn't jibe with community norms (what she calls Wiki:Rulez) could affect a LOT of articles. Ca2james (talk) 21:11, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Break
- Hey, BrillLyle, since you're so collegial and collaborative, and so knowledgeable about mental illness [125], can you recommend how I should respond to something like this [126]? EEng 3:47 pm, Today (UTC−4)
- Considering the diff and link that EEng posted above this, I'm wondering how BrillLyle knows that many of the editors who "coalition" to revert her edits are "mentally ill", and how they are "typically white men"? This seems like a massive example of assuming bad faith, perhaps not enough to be sanctioned for in and of itself, but certainly enough for an administrator to give her a final warning to AGF or be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ugh. Not acceptable in any sense. Arkon (talk) 00:11, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Seriously? The gender gap on Wikipedia is real. I am a woman and use my real name, am transparent about who I am when I edit. I have attended Wikimedia- and WikiCite-sponsored events and have been public about who I am, including my user name. I have experienced problems editing on En Wikipedia as well as in the community at large because I am a woman. To not acknowledge this is not factually accurate about my experience on the projects. From what I have experienced at the hands of a few editors, yes, I think there is some unchecked mental illness going on in terms of behavior. That is allowed by the community. It is something that I think the WMF should address actively, as the community does not seem to be equipped. And finally, to claim that there is no group think and coalitions of editors roaming these boards is just a lot of malarky. I think it's actually illustrating itself here in this ANI, an ANI that is highly vindictive and retaliatory -- initiated by an editor who himself has proven issues getting along with people. As I have been counseled elsewhere, if the editors on these boards want to get rid of me as an editor -- and I am a solid editor who contributes content regularly -- then you will do that, and you will be successful. But I would ask you all to consider why I am such a threat, and why there is this need to try and shut me down. I love editing Wikipedia and Wikidata. I would like to do that and not focus on situations like this, if possible. But it is also clear that there is little support for justice here, that a group of editors can gang up on individuals and make this community so hostile that out of self-preservation they end up leaving. Editor retention is really poor now. I want to be able to stay but there are limits as to how much of these personal attacks -- and let's be clear, this is a personal attack on me by someone who doesn't like me -- one person can stand. It is affecting my health, it is unfair, and there is way too much expressed glee by the people attacking me. I would ask for some semblance of care when evaluating what is going on here. This has been an orchestrated personal attack on me as an editor. Is that okay with you all? -- Erika aka BrillLyle (talk) 04:08, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have no doubt that there's a gender gap on Wikipdia, because there's a gender gap in pretty much anything which has to do with the Internet or computers (one which is slowly narrowing), but there being a gender gap here is absolutely no excuse for you to assume that "white men" are out to get you, or that they are "mentally ill."I would remind you that in another age, a woman such as yourself would have had any behaviorial quirks explained away by any number of supposedly female-only conditions, such as lack of intelligence, or having "the vapors", or, indeed, being "hysterical", a condition which was linked to having a uterus (Greek: hystera). Those supposed explanations are not acceptable now, nor should they be, and your comments quoted above -- and your comments about this AN/I being motivated by anything but a desire to see Wikipedia policy be properly enforced -- are not acceptable on Wikipedia either.The only vindictiveness and retaliation -- behaviors forbidden from people of all genders -- I see here is coming from you, and it is simply not going to be ignored because you decided to play the "gender bias" card.So, here's the deal: I don't know you from Adam's off-ox, so there's no way you can shrug this off as a personal vendetta. I believe that the Wikipedia community needs to see from you an explicit statement that you will stop harassing Andy Mabbett - for that is what you are doing -- and that you will do as you are required to do by policy and assume good faith of other editors and groups of editors unless you have and present specific evidence (not rhetoric) that shows misbehavior on their part.If we don't see such a statement from you within a few days, and all we get is continued rhetorical overkill and insulting remarks showing that you are committed to assuming bad faith, then I will make here a formal proposal that you be community banned from Wikipedia, if someone else doesn't beat me to it. This is serious stuff you're playing around with, and you're not going to get out of it simply by slinging words around. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:50, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you Beyond My Ken. I did not know this.
- As requested, an explicit statement:
- "I will stop harassing Andy Mabbett."
- "I will stop harassing Michael Mandiberg."
- "I will stop ad hominem attacks on Art+Feminism."
- "I will stop discussing my experience with Wikimedia NYC and its leadership."
- "I will Assume Good Faith of other editors and groups of editors."
- -- Erika aka BrillLyle (talk) 06:12, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
BLP violations and edit warring by BigDwiki
- BigDwiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Jazz Jennings (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
Despite an 8 year tenure on Wikipedia, BigDwiki seems unfamiliar with WP:BLP. This user keeps adding poorly sourced edits to Jazz Jennings to include her deadname, despite WP:BIRTHNAME and past discussion on the article's talk page. The user offers Youtube and voterrecords.com as a source. This is a clear violation of BLP in an area under discretionary sanctions. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:08, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- I was in the middle of adding a new section here when this one popped up, so I'll respond here. There appears to be an edit war going on at Jazz Jennings. Despite consensus on the talk page, and plenty of sourced contributions, several editors want to continue to revert edits and claim that they are "vandalism". Youtube is indeed a reliable source. The subject of the article plainly states on his/her own Youtube video that "my legal name is Jaren", and thus it was added as a source and added to the article. There seems to be a steady beat of editors adding the subject's real legal name to the article, and then having it reverted as "vandalism" by activist editors that are dead-set on keeping the subject's real name out of the article.BigDwiki (talk) 20:13, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- You can also stop templating me... but I'd love to see this supposed consensus on the article's talk pageEvergreenFir(talk) 20:16, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Please describe your logic when you have left me three such templates.BigDwiki (talk) 20:21, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- I left 2 warning templates. When I realized you'd been here 8 years, I took it to ANI instead of AIV. EvergreenFir(talk) 20:23, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Let's stay focused on the issue at-hand here rather than go off about "who can template who". Warnings get left; people get templated. It's not a big deal... :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:51, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- I left 2 warning templates. When I realized you'd been here 8 years, I took it to ANI instead of AIV. EvergreenFir(talk) 20:23, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Please describe your logic when you have left me three such templates.BigDwiki (talk) 20:21, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- If they've stated publicly that their legal name is Jaren, why is that a BLP violation? Natureium (talk) 20:19, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- WP:BLPPRIVACY, WP:BIRTHNAME. This is not widely published info. I'm sure you're aware of the issues surrounding deadnames with the whole Chelsea Manning naming issue. EvergreenFir(talk) 20:23, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- That's just it. It's not a violation. Both the video on the TLC episode page as well as the Youtube video state it. https://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/i-am-jazz/videos/jazz-and-jeanette-at-dmv BigDwiki (talk) 20:24, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I'm not. Manning's current and former names are both widely known as they were a public figure before and after transitioning. What's the BLP issue? Natureium (talk) 20:26, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Please see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Manning_naming_dispute. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:30, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict x2) I don't know if we have a reliable source for the spelling of that name, but in my view the main content problem here is the surname, which has been discussed multiple times without anyone ever providing a good enough source for it. —Granger (talk·contribs) 20:25, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- (EC x3) The Wikipedia manual of style does state that someone's name should be listed as the name they are famous under, and a name no longer in use should not be stated in the lead unless the subject was famous under it. The person in question was not famous under their birth name. Thus, if included in the article, it should not be in the lead. After looking in the aricle, BigDwiki seems to want it to be in the lead, when, frankly, much like the Laverne Cox article, it does not belong there. Icarosaurvus (talk) 20:30, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Whether it is in the lead or not is not a concern of mine. As long as it is included in the article.BigDwiki (talk) 20:35, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- You most certainly do not have consensus for such an edit. And I would object any proposals that include "sources" like that mocking book or non-RS like voterrecords. EvergreenFir(talk) 20:37, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- You are free to object, but I find that you are obviously very biased in this transgener/LGBT topic withj your reverts. You've called criticizm "mocking book", yet consider pro-transgender articles as fact. Also, you're convieniently dodging the Youtube and TLC network sources where the subject clearly and undeniably states that his/her legal name is Jaren.BigDwiki (talk) 20:48, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- I acknowledge my biases and that this topic is personal to me. Were I an admin, I would still have filed here at ANI because of that "involvement" with the topic. But my reverts don't make me "
very biased
" and I do not "consider pro-transgender articles as fact
". Rather I understand the science behind these topics decently well enough and I am familiar enough with Wikipedia's rules and practices in the topic of trans issues. We do not include Laverne Cox's deadname, even though I think you can sources similar to the TLC clip. Why? Because of BLPPRIVACY, BIRTHNAME, and WP:HARM. Too often editors wish to add deadnames to shame or humiliate trans people, but claim it's for "the record" or "readers' information". The person's birthname in these cases adds nothing to the reader's understanding of the subject. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:56, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- I acknowledge my biases and that this topic is personal to me. Were I an admin, I would still have filed here at ANI because of that "involvement" with the topic. But my reverts don't make me "
- BigDwiki, from looking at the page, you were edit warring to include their dead name right after the person's preferred moniker. This is generally inadvisable, and goes directly against our style guide. Whether or not it was a concern of yours, your inclusion of it there has become a concern. Further, wikipedia does not care about, as you put it "real names"; We care about the name a person became notable under. Icarosaurvus (talk) 20:43, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- You are free to object, but I find that you are obviously very biased in this transgener/LGBT topic withj your reverts. You've called criticizm "mocking book", yet consider pro-transgender articles as fact. Also, you're convieniently dodging the Youtube and TLC network sources where the subject clearly and undeniably states that his/her legal name is Jaren.BigDwiki (talk) 20:48, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- You most certainly do not have consensus for such an edit. And I would object any proposals that include "sources" like that mocking book or non-RS like voterrecords. EvergreenFir(talk) 20:37, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Whether it is in the lead or not is not a concern of mine. As long as it is included in the article.BigDwiki (talk) 20:35, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- (EC x3) The Wikipedia manual of style does state that someone's name should be listed as the name they are famous under, and a name no longer in use should not be stated in the lead unless the subject was famous under it. The person in question was not famous under their birth name. Thus, if included in the article, it should not be in the lead. After looking in the aricle, BigDwiki seems to want it to be in the lead, when, frankly, much like the Laverne Cox article, it does not belong there. Icarosaurvus (talk) 20:30, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- WP:BLPPRIVACY, WP:BIRTHNAME. This is not widely published info. I'm sure you're aware of the issues surrounding deadnames with the whole Chelsea Manning naming issue. EvergreenFir(talk) 20:23, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- You can also stop templating me... but I'd love to see this supposed consensus on the article's talk pageEvergreenFir(talk) 20:16, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- I've left formal DS alerts on both the BLP and GamerGate cases. If this behaviour continues, I believe it would be topic-ban time. Courcelles (talk) 20:29, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Please elaborate on this "behavior". As far as I see it, adding a properly sourced contribution to an article leads you to the conclusion of "topic ban time"?BigDwiki (talk) 20:36, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Properly sourced to YouTube? Try indef per CIR. 207.38.146.86 (talk) 00:15, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- That's way too far. YouTube isn't the best source, but banning someone soley over citing what could be a reliable video is a CIR violation in it's self. —JJBers 18:13, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Properly sourced to YouTube? Try indef per CIR. 207.38.146.86 (talk) 00:15, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- On one level I can understand the issue: the MOS sections on birthnames are inconsistent in their intent, and the one being applied here would appear to violate WP:NOTCENSORED, especially considering who the source of the information is. On the other hand, the politics of the matter are clear, and BigDwiki needs to drop the stick and give up. Mangoe (talk) 14:52, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
- As an aside, I just noticed that reference #12 is indeed a youtube video and it is used in the article and has remained there without objection. "In a Q&A video posted to her YouTube channel in July 2014, Jennings stated that she is pansexual, and that she loves people "for their personality", regardless of their sexual orientation or gender status." BigDwiki (talk) 18:19, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Proposing topic ban
- After reviewing the article, it's talk page, and associated sources, and considering the DS at WP:ARBBLP and BigDwiki's apparent intractability on this issue, I'm proposing a Topic Ban from BLPs, with a duration to be determined. I have full protected the article for avery short time until this issue is resolved. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:19, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support BigDwiki's use of such phrases as "his/her real name" shows a rather dire misunderstanding of wikipedia's policies on such matters, there was a claim of false consensus, and he seems rather hostile towards any who disagree with him. I'd suggest a ban until such time as he has shown significant improvement in these areas. Icarosaurvus (talk) 00:52, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support as per Icarosaurvus above. 68.42.64.71 (talk) 02:26, 28 March 2018 (UTC)— 68.42.64.71 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Oppose He edited a single article, was reverted, and took his concerned to AIV and the talk page which was proper. Banning him considering he has been here for eight years without any blocks or violations is a heavy handed move and smells like oppression because he seems to obviously have views That some people would like to suppress. It looks like the only mistake he made was editing the wrong article where people are extremely heated to begin with. 107.77.253.5 (talk) 02:46, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose This is totally out of line. BigDwiki (talk) 02:51, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose I'll join the IP-contributor bandwagon. This is an over-reaction right now, and if disruption continues it can be implemented as Discretionary Sanctions. 174.30.113.88 (talk) 02:55, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose There is no BLP violation. Sources support the edit and there is no suggestion the subject objects to its presence here or elsewhere. This is an MOS dispute. We don't topic ban for MOS disputes. Close, and take this discussion to the article's talk page. James J. Lambden (talk) 02:56, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- I think there seems to be some confusion here. The inclusion of the legal first name is a MOS/editorial discretion issue, but the inclusion of the legal surname is a BLP issue—unless better sources can be found, including the surname is a WP:BLPPRIVACY problem. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:02, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose (at this time until I read more arguments here), as no previous sanctions or administrative actions have been attempted or imposed against this user before. The issues are very problematic, I'm not disagreeing with that at all. But banning someone should mean that we have tried other methods and actions to correct this behavior and they have not worked, and that a ban is the logical next step necessary to stop the behavior and prevent additional disruption to the project. I think that we should attempt to impose a less-severe action in this situation, and then consider proceeding if the issue continues. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:02, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
OpposeWeak support for now. I agree with Oshwah. User was disruptive, but too soon for tban. Tban should be a near last resort imho. Edit: updating vote because of this edit. (14:15, 10 April 2018 (UTC)) EvergreenFir (talk) 04:21, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- It's interesting how a provocative suggestion like mine can be a useful tactic to stimulate some comment. That said, EvergreenFir, it begs the question as to what you hoped to gain by bringing the issue to ANI in the first place. It's either a run-of-the-mill content dispute, or a serious BLP/DS issue - what is it to be? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:45, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Kudpung: My hope was that an administrator would intervene and stop the disruption should it continue or that the request for such an intervention would stop the disruption, which was the case here. This board is for cases where there's not clear vandalism but there is clear disruption and that administrator intervention may be required. When I filed, it was not clear that the user would stop but it was clear that AIV was not the appropriate forum. My desired outcome was for the disruption to stop and possibly a block if it had continued or a warning if it had stopped. I do not think of topic ban is out of the question especially should the behavior had continued. EvergreenFir(talk) 18:05, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:27, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- There is and was no "disruption". As multiple editors have pointed out here, there isn't even clarity on whether a BLP violation occurred. It is my position that no violation occurred. If a violation occurred, there would not be so many editors saying that there was no violation.BigDwiki (talk) 20:10, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- I don’t understand how you think there was no violation. Please read this quote from WP:BIRTHNAME.
In the case of transgender and non-binary people, birth names should be included in the lead sentence only when the person was notable prior to coming out.
- Also, I would like to know why you are so interested in including Jenning’s birth name. You’ve not actually stated any reasons why you want to include the name, you’ve only stated that her birth name should be included. I feel like you’re just trying to shame her and don’t want to admit it. EMachine03 (talk) 15:30, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I don’t understand how you think there was no violation. Please read this quote from WP:BIRTHNAME.
- There is and was no "disruption". As multiple editors have pointed out here, there isn't even clarity on whether a BLP violation occurred. It is my position that no violation occurred. If a violation occurred, there would not be so many editors saying that there was no violation.BigDwiki (talk) 20:10, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:27, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Kudpung: My hope was that an administrator would intervene and stop the disruption should it continue or that the request for such an intervention would stop the disruption, which was the case here. This board is for cases where there's not clear vandalism but there is clear disruption and that administrator intervention may be required. When I filed, it was not clear that the user would stop but it was clear that AIV was not the appropriate forum. My desired outcome was for the disruption to stop and possibly a block if it had continued or a warning if it had stopped. I do not think of topic ban is out of the question especially should the behavior had continued. EvergreenFir(talk) 18:05, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- It's interesting how a provocative suggestion like mine can be a useful tactic to stimulate some comment. That said, EvergreenFir, it begs the question as to what you hoped to gain by bringing the issue to ANI in the first place. It's either a run-of-the-mill content dispute, or a serious BLP/DS issue - what is it to be? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:45, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- There's a discussion happening on the article talk page. Why don't we take this and put it there instead of here? GMGtalk 21:01, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support regrettably - BigDwiki is still showing WP:IDHT type behavior on the talk pages, despite multiple explanation as to why his sources will not work in the article, and worse, fail WP:BLP ►К Ф Ƽ Ħ◄ 12:41, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
- If you read further down the discussion that you lent to, you will see where another editor has analyzed the same question that I raised, and then analyze your response, and found that there was no violation. There seems to be the same number of people accusing this of being a violation as there are people saying that it is not a violation. BigDwiki (talk) 00:53, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose Not even close to being a BLP violation. Only in death does duty end (talk) 00:56, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support. Have we learned nothing from the Manning case? The use of the phrase "his/her real name" appears to indicate an ideological agenda at work. Gamaliel (talk) 01:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- By this same logic, which I’m not saying is accurate, how is it not an idiological agenda to promote something along the lines of “her name”? BigDwiki (talk) 03:37, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- The MOS, reflecting tons of discussion, follows in the footsteps of other mainstream outlets in instructing users to use pronouns and names conforming with that person's gender identity. Repeated refusal to do so is disruptive and tendentious. EvergreenFir(talk) 05:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- It actually states "Use gender-neutral language where this can be done with clarity and precision." in addition to the gender-identity section. "His/her" is certainly neutral. BigDwiki (talk) 15:53, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- The sentence you quoted is talking about generic contexts (the next sentence is "For example, avoid the generic he."), not about referring to individual transgender people. For this issue, the relevant section of the MOS is MOS:GENDERID. —Granger (talk·contribs) 17:27, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- @BigDwiki: are you seriously suggesting using "his/her" in reference to a trans girl is remotely appropriate? EvergreenFir(talk) 21:37, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- I am saying that it is neutral. BigDwiki (talk) 21:50, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- @BigDwiki: so you think it's appropriate? Shall we use it on all articles then? Or perhaps singular they? EvergreenFir (talk) 06:36, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
- I am saying that it is neutral. BigDwiki (talk) 21:50, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- @BigDwiki: are you seriously suggesting using "his/her" in reference to a trans girl is remotely appropriate? EvergreenFir(talk) 21:37, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- The sentence you quoted is talking about generic contexts (the next sentence is "For example, avoid the generic he."), not about referring to individual transgender people. For this issue, the relevant section of the MOS is MOS:GENDERID. —Granger (talk·contribs) 17:27, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- It actually states "Use gender-neutral language where this can be done with clarity and precision." in addition to the gender-identity section. "His/her" is certainly neutral. BigDwiki (talk) 15:53, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- The MOS, reflecting tons of discussion, follows in the footsteps of other mainstream outlets in instructing users to use pronouns and names conforming with that person's gender identity. Repeated refusal to do so is disruptive and tendentious. EvergreenFir(talk) 05:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- support Whether or not one agrees with the MOS on this (I have my issues, as I stated above), the onus at this point would be to achieve a different consensus instead of doggedly defying what we have now. I also see similar issues with other BLP disputes (e.g. at Sandy Stimpson; see diff) where there are problems about inclusion of material. The arguments show a failure to appreciate the matters involved. Mangoe (talk) 21:55, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support - "his/her real name" is unacceptable verbiage, and to claim that it is "neutral" shows a profound lack of understanding. To protect the encyclopedia, a topic ban seems to be a very sensible measure. --bonadea contributions talk 22:14, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
- Comment - It's hard to take a BLP report seriously when the reporter turns around and opposes a BLP topic ban. Also I can sympathize with the users who don't buy the BLP argument. The content is sourced and not really contentious in terms of accuracy. However that doesn't change the fact that disregarding MOS rules so that you can use a article to "deadname" a trans subject is extremely tendentious and certainly demonstrates a highly warped view of "neutrality". A block is not debatable if this behavior continues, or perhaps a TBAN from LGBT BLPs. I would be inclined to discretionarily implement either of these immediately if issues persist. Swarm ♠ 12:28, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Swarm: please see my explanation above. I came here because of the incident, not for a topic ban. When considering the proposed topic ban, I know my personal views on this topic may cloud my judgement, so I was airing on the side of caution intentionally. However, to be honest, given the user's responses above I am warming up to the idea of a topic ban. They seem to have no inkling as to why their behavior is problematic. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:06, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support, particularly given the "his/her name" thing above. That BigDwiki thinks that's "neutral" language shows that they either do not possess the understanding of policy needed to edit in this space, or their own opinions are making them unable to edit appropriately here. GorillaWarfare (talk) 19:30, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
*Oppose a topic ban, but I would have no problem with the outcome being that BigDwiki is given a warning that describing a trans person's birth name as their "real name" is exceptionally offensive, and will incur a block if it happens again, as it would then be a deliberate act (at the moment I'll assume good faith and believe it was done through ignorance, not malice). Fish+Karate 09:02, 3 April 2018 (UTC) Striking out, see amended comment below Fish+Karate 12:21, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose - Gigantic club being wielded in an edit war. Topping banning from that one article would be fine with me as the editing is tendentious. Carrite (talk) 16:00, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose. There's something fundamentally preposterous about arguing the BLPPRIVACY prevents us from including a statement not only made by the article subject on national television but reposted to her personal youtube channel, which has more than 400,000 subscribers and whose videos may receive millions of pageviews. Both the subject herself, to some degree, and her parents, without equivocation, describe "Jazz Jennings" as a stage name, a pseudonym, not a legal name; as such many of the arguments here about the MOS are clearly inapplicable. Many of the sources used in the article are plainly no better, and sometimes clearly less reliable, than the sources objected to in this discussion. Too many of the arguments here ignore the particulars for this individual, preferring a generalized view that does not take into account important but inconvenient factors. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. (talk) 22:12, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Again, as I said above, the BLPPRIVACY issue is not the reliably sourced legal given name, but rather the poorly sourced legal surname, which has not been publicly released by the article's subject, at least not in any source which I am aware of. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:34, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose as OTT and premature. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz's opinion above matches mine. Jschnur (talk) 00:16, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose - Reading this ANI and some of the sources too has led me to agree with Oshwah. —JJBers 18:07, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Given BigDwiki has made the BLP-violating edit again ([127]) despite this thread, and has rightly been blocked for 24 hours, it is now clear there is either a fundamental lack of understanding of, or a blissful disregard for, consensus, community editing, and WP:BLP, so I've changed my argument to support a topic ban, and probably a lengthier block should the behaviour continue. Fish+Karate 12:20, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- User:Fish and karate, your accusation is false and should be struck or withdrawn entirely. Whether BigDwiki's conduct was appropriate or not (and I believe that one edit in two weeks, which definitively resolved the issue of whether the name in question could be reliably sourced, was appropriately bold editing), there is no reasonable argument that it violated WP:BLP. This dispute has already veered far away from legitimate policy concerns, and blithely making false accusations (by an admin, no less!) only exacerbates a bad situation. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. (talk) 18:15, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
This is the First time that I have ever attempted to edit on Wiki...
| BLP violations rev-deleted, article semi-protected, IP blocked. An oversighter may wish to suppress the deleted revisions completely at their discretion. Black Kite (talk) 10:54, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Dealt with. |
|---|
I made a substantial addition to a page, after posting my addition, I re-read through it, and made a few minor alterations to what I'd written, spelling, typos etc. So 3-5 edits showed up relatively close together. No one did anything to my edit. Then I noticed a side topic at the bottom of the page, and decided to contribute to that as well. This particular topic seems to have a Hot Button Issue for a particular Administrator. It was deleted BEFORE I even posted it! Along with my original lengthy edit of the original topic! In the History, I saw that It was claimed to have been removed for VANDALISM, which it WAS NOT! It was also claimed to have been NON-Productive, which is Also inaccurate. The "Administrator" sent me *****3***** Templated Warnings in quick succession or simultaneously, to I think attempt to create a reason to BLOCK me. I attempted to find a way to use the pre made templates, to express to the entity, that they were "Hasty", "Biting" the Newbie, as well as Erroneously Labeling my work/ contribution as "Vandalism". However there does not appear to be a clear way for me to use the templates or to send them as messages to other editors. There also was no clear way to communicate on the "Administrator's" Talk Page. I did not touch the entity's Hot button topic, but reverted my original contribution back again, which was immediately deleted ANEW, with a new Template Warning. While the Hot Button Topic Edit (That was deleted Prior to, or AS I was posting it, before it ever posted) was originally in the history as having been deleted, It NO LONGER IS. NOR is that edit/ Contribution LISTED on MY page, under MY List of contributions as ever having existed. Completely wiped out of existence. It does NOT qualify as something in need of SPEEDY REVISION! My original Contribution IS COMPLETELY VERIFIABLE! I fully intended to come back and cite more sources, after getting the bulk of the information up. My contribution the the "Administrator's" Hot Button Topic, does have some verifiable content (I cited a Supreme Court Judgment) However, I acknowledge that it was Not written in Encyclopedic format, but more like a Response. The Administrator However GROSSLY abused their Privaleges, And while very few people are likely to have ever seen my post on that topic on that page, The entity's ABJECT FEAR of ANYONE SEEING the CONTENT/ INFORMATION that I Posted/ Shared, has fueled a desire in me to put it on Billboards, and News Sources around the GLOBE!!!!! Or Print it and hand deliver it door to door or on street corners!!!!! The Administrator's RASH Censorship of solid content, regarding what the entity viewed as an "opposing" point of view, or threat to their own World View, will likely make their Fears become a Reality! At anyrate, this individual ought to lose "Administrator" Status, for the abuse of the tools at their disposal. They may yet still contribute useful content, However ought not be able to so Rashly or Speedily, REMOVE ALL TRACES of others' work, or contributions, or Harrass or Misslabel,or Attack, what they were actually doing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.252.136.133 (talk) 10:46, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- I only had to look at the above and one of your edits to see that you are clearly here to promote an agenda in opposition to the actions of US state child welfare agencies, through airing grievances about them. Wikipedia is the wrong forum for you to do that. 331dot (talk) 10:52, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Article ownership at Eldred Lee
| As the person who was handling the disruption and communicating with the users involved, the issue was resolved appropriately and correctly. The article creator requested deletion, and given the situation and circumstance, the possible notability concerns can be ignored and accepting that request and deleting the article per G7 was the right call. Thayer2017, next time an issue arises like this, it's best to discuss it with the user instead of deleting talk page messages and adding to the disruption. Also, you admitted to creating an article about someone you know personally in real life - I hope I don't have to tell you that this was obviously a problematic thing to do, as it conflicts with Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines and even Wikipedia's biographies of living persons policy depending on the circumstance. Aside from all this, everyone now appears happy and all is well.... which is the best outcome we strive for when closing discussions :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 04:31, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Using multiple accounts, some of which have been blocked, users claiming to be Mr. Lee has edit warred to delete content. It's entirely possible that some of that content can indeed be removed, but this has become disruptive. According to this edit [128], a colleague created the article, and is taking orders from Mr. Lee. 2601:188:180:11F0:1581:EFC0:30C5:ED97 (talk) 00:44, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- How is this person notable? The current version of the article (which reads more like a CV) is mostly based on primary sources (like his CV). --NeilNtalk to me 00:54, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- I don't see it either. Filing an AFD. Courcelles (talk) 00:56, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Does marrying a 23 year old when you're 62 contribute to notability? [129] Natureium (talk) 01:04, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- See also: Streisand effect Natureium (talk) 00:57, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Mr. Lee wants the article deleted. This is my fault. He has sent an email to Wikipedia volunteers already regarding this issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thayer2017 (talk • contribs) 00:59, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Deleted per WP:G7 --NeilN talk to me 01:06, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Mr. Lee wants the article deleted. This is my fault. He has sent an email to Wikipedia volunteers already regarding this issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thayer2017 (talk • contribs) 00:59, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- In this edit and this edit Thayer2017 removed other editors comments from the help desk DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 01:00, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Right about the AfD, which ought to please the subject. The article's creator has made a mess this evening. 2601:188:180:11F0:1581:EFC0:30C5:ED97 (talk) 01:05, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
A question
| Clearly a troll, but the IP hasn't edited since then so there's nothing that needs to be done at this time. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 04:09, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recently, an IP editor User:200.30.250.136 who I reverted the edits of on the page Wikipedia:Blocking IP addresses, and left a warning sent me this note:
Löschen Sie meine Inhalte nicht, wenn Sie nicht wissen, dass dies wahllos zu einer Blockierung führen kann, denn heute erhalten Sie nur eine Warnung.
wikipedia admin
Translated into English:
Do not delete my content if you do not know that this can lead to random blocking, because today you only get one warning.
Wikipedia Admin
I reverted this edit to my talk page, and I am a bit confused about this, as to whether or not I should be alarmed. I took it here just in case it is somebody just messing around trying to get me riled up. If I have gone to the wrong place, just tell me, and I will take it elsewhere. Otherwise, just tell me what to do. UnsungKing123 (talk) 23:21, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- @UnsungKing123: nothing to worry about at all, a bad faith warning message. Your revert was of vandalism, you'd even be exempt from WP:3RR if they started fighting over the edit. An IP editor that knows the Wikipedia space (in particular blocking policy) may well be a long term vandal (or just lost). However, based on the warning message, they likely saw that you were a fairly new editor and thought they could give a shot at intimidating you. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 23:27, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Bellezzasolo: Thanks for the heads up. I was rather worried for a moment, thinking that it could possibly be an admin (in logged-out form). But I'm happy that there is nothing to worry about. Rock on. UnsungKing123 (talk) 23:29, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
User:JCGDIMAIWAT
| Blocked for one week by Oshwah. (non-admin closure) Erpert blah, blah, blah... 19:26, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- JCGDIMAIWAT (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
JCGDIMAIWAT has been editing since 2010 and in October received a 31-hour block for persistent addition of unverified material. Unfortunately, that's the same topic I've been sending this editor messages on, creating unref articles. They continue to edit but won't reply to the several messages I have sent over a period of weeks (see User talk:JCGDIMAIWAT). I have pointed out that it is policy to communicate etc. but have not got anywhere. They appear to have never edited their talk page in more than 8 years of editing. Boleyn (talk) 08:57, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Looking at JCGDIMAIWAT's contributions made over the last seven days, I see that (s)he has added content mostly to film-related articles and BLPs. I also see edits without references to BLP articles where they should be provided (1, 2, 3, 4). I'm going to wait on action and let other editors weigh in on this discussion first, as well as give JCGDIMAIWAT a fair opportunity to respond here (I know this user has never communicated on talk pages or with other editors before, but it's the right thing to do regardless). ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 11:29, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- JCGDIMAIWAT, you've continued to edit, you need to join in the discussion here. This discussion is just trying to find a solution to this problem, but you are risking a block by refusing to comment. Boleyn (talk) 18:42, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've blocked JCGDIMAIWAT for one week for continuing to add unreferenced content and for failing to communicate during important discussions involving the problematic editing behavior. Since this user was last notified and repeatedly talked to, they've continued to ignore the warnings and I found this edit among this user's most recent changes and since this ANI has been open for a few days. I don't like being the person to have to do this, but I feel that enough chances were given, the user has repeatedly engaged in problematic editing, and it will only continue unless further action is taken. Sigh... unfortunately, a block is the logical next step in this situation, as all other methods of trying to reach the user have been exhausted. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 19:37, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Harassment and edit warring
| The harassment has stopped for now due to the protection applied, so we can close this discussion here. The OP will let us know if it returns and we can handle the issue then. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 04:37, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can someone please have a word with User:134.154.56.223 (who also appears to be User:128.218.43.125)? After reporting him or her at WP:ANEW for edit warring at Emory University, he or she began harassing me on my own Talk page. Please convince him or her to stop. Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 19:31, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've protected your talk page while this gets dealt with. --MelanieN (talk) 00:27, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- ElKevbo - It looks like NeilN asked the user yesterday here to stop their behavior on your user talk page. MelanieN has temporarily semi-protected your talk page, and the article in dispute has been semi-protected as well. Let's see how things go from here; if the user (or any other user) begins or continues to harass you on your user talk page, file another report here or let me know. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 19:09, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks everyone! This editor is continuing to edit aggressively across several articles using multiple IP addresses but the harassment has stopped and he or she has begun to use Talk pages so that's progress. ElKevbo (talk) 01:33, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- ElKevbo - If the harassment or incivility returns, report it here or message me on my talk page and let me know - I'll be happy to make sure it's taken care of and that it stops. Cheers - ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 04:36, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks everyone! This editor is continuing to edit aggressively across several articles using multiple IP addresses but the harassment has stopped and he or she has begun to use Talk pages so that's progress. ElKevbo (talk) 01:33, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Block evasion via VPN
| This belongs at SPI so as such am closing. –Davey2010Talk 17:39, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Superfx1234 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) evaded a 24 hour block[130] via VPN (Free MS-SSTP VPN vpn885338432.opengw.net:995[131]) with an IP address 125.199.131.221 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Superfx1234 created a blatant sock Katarnoneo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and reverted to IP's edit[132].―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 02:41, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Phoenix7777, please start an investigation at WP:SPI. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 02:55, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Do you understand VPN? It is not solved by WP:SPI. It is already clear Superfx1234 evaded the block.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 02:59, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Rajrajh
| Reported user is indefinitely blocked. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 18:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Note: Thread was unarchived because of continued disruption.
Rajrajh had many warnings now,[133] still he is edit warring on Ho people, by gaming WP:3RR,[134][135][136][137][138][139] and never participating on talk page.[140] Capitals00 (talk) 14:20, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- If Rajrajh does not respond here then a topic ban may be needed. --NeilNtalk to me 17:55, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- If @Rajrajh: is going to be topic banned then edit warring [141][142][143][144][145][146][147][148][149] on Munda people should be mentioned too, no discussion on talk page as well.[150] He is evidently aware that editors have to discuss their edits[151] but he prefers not to.
- He is now edit warring over removing CSD tag from Ho revolt[152][153] an article he created himself. His talkpage comment also shows[154] he is not willing to understand copyright violations. Capitals00 (talk) 16:57, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Filling out paperwork for a topic ban. --NeilNtalk to me 17:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- And after they were notified, they did this edit. Should we give them the one chance in case they didn't see the talk notification or is this a direct snub against the sanction? Canterbury Tailtalk 17:45, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- They were busy working on another copyright violation while this was going on. Blocked indefinitely. --NeilN talk to me 17:56, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- And after they were notified, they did this edit. Should we give them the one chance in case they didn't see the talk notification or is this a direct snub against the sanction? Canterbury Tailtalk 17:45, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Filling out paperwork for a topic ban. --NeilNtalk to me 17:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Personal Attack on page
The user User:GSS-1987 & User:Winged Blades of Godric are personally attacking the page called Prakash Neupane by removing the references link like Huffpost , Khasokhas Weekly & other Nepali National Newspaper sources by saying unreliable source. They cannot remove references like this Huffpost is not unreliable source. The article was accept from Draft by seeking review of Wikipedia PROJECT Nepal . I request administrator to take a look on these things. 27.34.20.152 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:59, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you, for the blue-link(s).I got one more article to dispatch to AFD.Best,~ Winged BladesGodric 06:06, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- All sorts of cross-spamming.For interested editors, this is the piece I removed, which was supposedly contributed by Khasokhas.~ Winged BladesGodric 06:10, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- THere's a large sock farm, mostly IP socks that operate on this and other similar articles. One can see a similar IP at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Gaurav456. —SpacemanSpiff 06:50, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
I've sent the non-notable journalist/publisher of Khasokhas Weekly to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kishor Panthi (2nd nomination) and note the page was previously deleted. There is a long zerm persistent effort to promote non-notable connected subjects here. Legacypac (talk) 06:55, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Mansukhsurin
- Mansukhsurin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Mansukhsurin has been repeatedly warned about adding unverified material to Wikipedia, including creating wholly unreferenced articles, but won't respond. At User talk:Mansukhsurin you can see my numerous messages to them, plus other messages and warnings on the same topic. Mansukhsurin has been editing for a couple of years but has never responded to a talk page message or even (from what I can see) left an edit summary. Boleyn (talk) 15:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Boleyn: You forgot to notify them; I've just done so. Not that I expect them to come running here to explain themselves.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:01, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, thanks, Boleyn (talk) 17:09, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Mansukhsurin, you've continued to edit, can you please respond? Thanks, Boleyn (talk) 15:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- It may be that a block is the only way to gain their attention.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:49, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Also he has created a user page by attempting to copy User:Titodutta's page, thereby giving the false impression (probably unintentionally) that he is an administrator.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:25, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Mansukhsurin, you've continued to edit, can you please respond? Thanks, Boleyn (talk) 15:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, thanks, Boleyn (talk) 17:09, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Edit warring project talk page posts at Wikiproject Medicine
I posted a neutrally worded notice of an RfC on Wikiproject Medicine, as recommended by the guideline WP:RFC. [155]. RexxS has been trying to remove it, exhibited WP:OWN behavior, and insulting edit summaries [156], [157]. Gun control is directly relevant to public health, and I can provide AMA statements to that effect if asked, they're already posted in the relevant discussion thread. Here's the obligatory "fuck off" [158]. Geogene (talk) 03:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I wonder though, why does RexxS go to such lengths to prevent word about an RfC from getting out? What purpose does edit warring it off a page serve, other than make it harder to gauge community consensus in a content dispute? If it's "disruptive" to post it there, what point does all the arguing about it serve? Nobody is making RexxS participate in the RfC. Obviously RexxS has some underlying political issues and needs a topic ban from gun control, to prevent him from continuing to edit other peoples' posts. Geogene (talk) 04:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Response
- Geogene posted a notice to WT:WikiProject Medicine: "An RfC has been opened on whether Colt AR-15 should mention the Port Arthur massacre." [159]
- Ozzie10aaaa, a member of WPMED, removed it withe edit summary "wrong wikiproject" [160]
- Geogene restored the notice with edit summary "Disagree. Shootings and gun control policy are a public health issue" [161]
- He then posted further on the WPMED talk page, attempting to justify his edit-warring the notice back in.
- I told him quite firmly that the issue is not in scope for WPMED but did not remove the notice at that point. not in scope here [162]
- Since then he's harangued me on my talk page and on WT:WPMED #RfC notice insisting on his right to decide what notifications are posted at WT:WPMED, despite being told by Natureium that Geogene was "trying to shoehorn in an issue that has nothing to do with WP:MED". [163]
- Eventually I removed the RfC notice and warned him that "The purpose of this talk page is discuss improvements to WP:WikiProject Medicine. The question of "whether Colt AR-15 should mention the Port Arthur massacre" is so far removed from that purpose that your persistence in trying to force your unwelcome notice down the members' throats is very clearly tendentious editing."
- Geogene subsequently restored the notice for a third time.
- Geogene is not a member of WPMED, and he has been told very clearly by three editors, all of whom are members of WPMED, that his issue is not in scope for WPMED, nor is it wanted on the talk page. Yet he has tendentiously insisted that members of a WikiProject have no right to manage their project's talkpage, and edit-warred against members of the WikiProject to force his view.
- I'd like to seen action (1) to ban him from posting further at WT:WikiProject Medicine; (2) to confirm to him that the members of a WikiProject can to manage their talk page in line with WP:TPG; and (3) to confirm that WP:TALKCENT:
"Notices may be placed on related pages as needed; for example, a relevant WikiProject page"
does not give him the right to override the wishes of a WikiProject's membership in deciding what topics are relevant to their project. --RexxS (talk) 04:26, 8 April 2018 (UTC)- Nothing is "being shoved down anyone's throat", and that's a weird way to respond to a neutral RfC that tells me RexxS probably has some issues here. RexxS is free not to participate in the RfC if he chooses, but he does not have the right to decide that for the Project as a whole. There is no consensus that the RfC is off-topic, at least not the point of justifying removal. Two other editors posted there appearing to disagree with RexxS. Even if it were, the aggression shown by RexxS is far beyond reasonable for the context. They have a serious off-wiki problem with gun control, and it is causing them to act out disruptively.
- Further, RexxS does not own Project Medicine. He cannot dictate who can post there, or what is or is not on topic. There is no agreement as to whether the RfC is on topic or not. This ownership behavior is further evidence of disruption.
- And finally, Projects are not private clubs. It is irrelevant whether I am a "member" there or not. The statements above where he says I don't have membership card are further evidence of how RexxS doesn't understand the scope and purpose of Projects. He is not competent to delete posts that he doesn't like. Geogene (talk) 04:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Project aren't private clubs, on the other hand participants of the projects are ultimately the ones who deal with stuff relating to the wikiproject and therefore the best ones to decide what is and isn't in the scope of the wikiproject. If all participants of a wikiproject are saying something isn't in scope and someone else who doesn't is saying it is; it's only logical that we will side with those who will actually deal (or not deal) with whatever it is as part of the wikiproject, rather than the person who isn't going to deal with it. Nil Einne (talk) 06:25, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- The problem here is actually one of WP:CANVASSING, I think.Whenever I open an RfC, I am careful to post neutrally-worded pointers to the discussion on the talk page of every WikiProject listed on the article's talk page, whether or not, in my personal opinion, that WikiProject has any relevance to the subject in question -- but only to those WikiProjects. (I also note that I have done so in the RfC.) I do that to avoid any claim of impropriety or canvassing.However, in this case, the RfC was on Talk:Colt AR-15, and the only WikiProjects which have claimed that article as within their purview are MILHIST and Firearms. By posting on a WikiProject which does not claim the article as part of their project, Geogene was canvassing for votes from the members of a WikiProject they thought might be sympathetic to their side of the debate. If we allowed this to happen regularly, there would be nothing to stop every RfC from being publicized on every WikiProject the RfC initiator feels would be helpful to their cause: in this case, perhaps WikiProject Liberalism, WikiProject Terrorism, or WikiProject Civil Rights Movement.No, the best and fairest course is to post only on the WikiProjects listed, or else to forbid pointers altogether if they're going to be abused in this way. (And just as an aside: I'm an extremely strong advocate for very strict gun control and strongly favor outlawing the AR-15 and other assault-type rifles. This has nothing to do with that.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:54, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I do expect that WikiProject Medicine would be more favorable to my view, just as I expect that WikiProject Firearms, where I posted an identical notice, would be more hostile to my view. That's not canvass, as I understand it, but I may not understand it correctly. The point of an RfC is to pull editors from outside the usual orbit of firearms enthusiasts. A cohort that represents the community at large. Geogene (talk) 06:59, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You do not understand it correctly. Not only must the pointer be neutral, but who is notified must also not be biased. For instance, if an article is AfD'd for a second time, it's reasonable to notify the editors who participated in the previous AfD, but only if all the editors are notified, not simply the ones who !voted to "delete". Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:00, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I do expect that WikiProject Medicine would be more favorable to my view, just as I expect that WikiProject Firearms, where I posted an identical notice, would be more hostile to my view. That's not canvass, as I understand it, but I may not understand it correctly. The point of an RfC is to pull editors from outside the usual orbit of firearms enthusiasts. A cohort that represents the community at large. Geogene (talk) 06:59, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
The removal of the post was improper (especially repeated removals); it should have been left alone. The RfC clearly related to a medical/public health topic; the Port Arthur shooting and the gun laws that followed have been recently discussed in articles in, for example, the Journal of the American Medical Association and a position statement from the Australian Medical Association. More eyes on the topic from those interested in medicine or public health can only be a good thing. Neutralitytalk 07:20, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Needless to say, Colt AR-15 does not have a WikiProject Medicine (which many rather surprizing articles do). This is normally the prima facie evidence for what is in the project's scope and what is not. It is relevant that there is currently another gun control issue on MEDRS talk, where Rexxx seems ready to accept this is in scope (rather more than me, for example). I can't see the removal was improper. Johnbod (talk) 11:12, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- agree w/ Johnbod and (obviously) RexxS--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:53, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I can only agree that considering Colt AR-15 as part of WP:WikiProject Medicine is stretching credibility/canvassing beyond the bounds of reason. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:17, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- No, actually, it's not, for the same reason that Wikiproject Medicine is listed on Talk:Traffic_collision: the medical profession considers guns and gun violence, like traffic accidents, to be public health matters. EEng 14:09, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- WikiProject Medicine is not the medical profession. We are a group of editors trying to improve medical content on Wikipedia, and whether or not the Port Arthur shooting is mentioned on the Colt article is a matter of no bearing whatsoever to that aim.
- To make it clear: I have no axe to grind on gun politics; I did not even object to the original RfC notice being posted; but I did object strongly to the re-posting of the notice after it had been removed by a very active and respected member of the WikiProject. For Geogene to replace it for a third time is worthy of sanction, if only to prevent future time-sinks like this. --RexxS (talk) 15:48, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You don't get to define what is or is not medical, and this time sink is being created by you, who insists on arguing and edit warring over it. If you hadn't kept removing the notice, we wouldn't be having this debate. This is your fault. Geogene (talk) 15:57, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Agreed. If you think someone's using inappropriate judgment in advertising an RfC, go tell them that on their talkpage and maybe mention it in the RfC itself. But editwarring to un-notify is silly. You can't unring the bell and it's petty to try to do so. EEng 16:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- The inappropriate judgement was not in the original posting; that was a simple mistake. The real problem was the subsequent edit-warring after another editor had removed the notice. Edit-warring to notify is even sillier, and you shouldn't be encouraging it. It just rewards bad behaviour. --RexxS (talk) 17:53, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- If there was no inappropriate judgment in posting it, then it was certainly inappropriate to remove it. That aside, there are very few times that it's OK to remove another's talk posts (WP:TPO), even if misguided or ill-considered, and this sure ain't one. You should have let it lie and maybe taken it up with the poster, or if the problem is chronic, got some third-party help in guiding the poster for the future. Again, it's silly to try to unring the bell. EEng 19:23, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- The inappropriate judgement was not in the original posting; that was a simple mistake. The real problem was the subsequent edit-warring after another editor had removed the notice. Edit-warring to notify is even sillier, and you shouldn't be encouraging it. It just rewards bad behaviour. --RexxS (talk) 17:53, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You don't get to define what is or is not medical, and this time sink is being created by you, who insists on arguing and edit warring over it. If you hadn't kept removing the notice, we wouldn't be having this debate. This is your fault. Geogene (talk) 15:57, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- No, actually, it's not, for the same reason that Wikiproject Medicine is listed on Talk:Traffic_collision: the medical profession considers guns and gun violence, like traffic accidents, to be public health matters. EEng 14:09, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps, as a possible outcome of this discussion, Colt AR-15 should be added to the list of pages of interest to Project Medicine. As has been noted, there is already similar content there. Geogene (talk) 16:11, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
I have restored it. Since Jimbo Wales did not die and leave Geogene RexxS in charge, he doesn't own the page. If he doesn't like the notice, he could avert his eyes. --Calton Talk 16:40, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- While this statement is technically true, I believe you have the party usernames backwards. Geogene (talk) 17:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
And, RexxS has now edit warred it out again. This has to be very near a bright line violation. [164]. I'm telling you, there's something there they have a problem with, and it goes beyond any good faith interest in procedure. Geogene (talk) 18:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- When I've removed it as many times as you've added it (that's THREE times in your case), you'll be in a position to talk about the "bright line" that you were already at yesterday. What is it going to take to convince you that edit-warring isn't the way to solve disputes? The notice has been removed by three different members of WPMED. When will you get the message? we don't reward edit-warring. --RexxS (talk) 18:37, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment - I found the behaviour by RexxS on the Wikiproject Talk page to be downright insulting. Sample edit summaries include:
- Comments directed at Georgene elsewhere were of similar caliber, such as here: "Now stop trolling here, and get back under your bridge." permalink. Granted, this was on RexxS's own Talk page, but still. I would not expect such a tone directed at an established, apparently good-faith contributor.
- Apart from incivility, I noticed similar WP:OWN behaviour from RexxS at Talk:Gun violence in the United States#Contested projects a few weeks ago, when another user attempted to tag the page as falling under the scope of WP:Medicine project (permalink). The comments from RexxS included: "WikiProjects decide their own scope"; "It is not sufficient for a topic to be related to medicine for it to fall in the scope of WikiProject Medicine". The discussion ultimately resulted in the page being tagged.
- I found it odd that RexxS would object to tagging a clearly-related page, so their opposision to the RfC notice, to the point of insults and edit warring seems to be part of a pattern. K.e.coffman (talk) 19:00, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Geogene: and others. There is a fundamental error in your position here. If you understand that, you'll realize that everything else here is tilting at windmills. The Colt AR-15 and a massacre are not biomedical topics and should not be dealt with at the Wiki project medical page. The shoes I wear influence my health so does the car I drive. In fact pretty much anything a human being does impacts health. However, the MEDRS page and project are devoted to content that is, and I know I'm repeating myself, strictly biomedical in nature. Your RfC was closed as being at the wrong NB. Just take it somewhere else. Do you see that if editors do not delineate clearly what is biomedical and what isn't the MEDRS NB could be inundated with any and every topic because like I said, everything we as human beings do can be seen as and stretched to relate to our health/lives. Nor is ignoring that an RfC is posted on a wrong notice board how Wikipedia works. What works is for editors with interests and experience in certain areas to help regulate what happens in those areas. This is a volunteer project. If we didn't all get involved the place would fall apart right after it became clogged up and then bogged down with the inappropriate. Rexx is a long time, highly-respected, MEDRS editor who is known for fairness and neutrality. I don't always have to agree with him to know that any other agenda here than to help make this part of WP run as efficiently as possible is a grave error in judgement, and tells me you don't know the history of the editor you are dealing with. Please rethink your position and take your concerns to the right NB. Wiki project medicine isn't it.(Littleolive oil (talk) 19:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC))
- I understand that your experiences may have been different, but nothing on that page or on this noticeboard shows Rexx as worthy of being "highly respected" or even capable of fairness or neutrality. What I see here is a partisan POV warrior who has a serious problem with gun control. Geogene (talk) 19:47, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You are making assumptions based on the fact that someone disagrees with you. I've read through most if not all of the posts on this issue. You are refusing to see how the Wikipedia community deals with MEDRS. While you may have a personal and perhaps legitimate position, that position is not shared by the people who have worked in this area, and probably with the community as a whole. And you are ignoring what I wrote above. This reminds me of people who insist on picking wild flowers in protected areas. "I can pick them; its just a few," while ignoring that fact that if everyone picked a few there would be nothing left. If everyone brought what they personally "thought" is medical related the medical project notice board, the MEDRS notice board could not function. This is a collaborative project not one owned by everyone with an opinion. I've had arguments with Rexx; what I know is that he's honest and tries to be fair and kind whether I agree or not. If he's not in this case you might look to yourself. It can be hard to back down from a position but there is dignity in that too.(Littleolive oil (talk) 20:49, 8 April 2018 (UTC))
- You're here to defend your friend, not give an opinion based on the evidence. Geogene (talk) 20:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You are confusing evidence with opinion and you are not understanding how collaboration works. As long as that is the case there's not much more, I at least, can say. You are pushing on a very big rock when you try to redefine what the MEDRS NB is and what it handles. Its frustrating for those who work here all the time. You are refusing to take your case some where else where it could legitimately be dealt with. Best wishes.(Littleolive oil (talk) 21:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC))
- @Littleolive oil: To continue the analogy of "picking wild flowers", if you are caught doing this, a Park Service ranger <redacted> may fine or even arrest you, but they will now shower you with insults. We should expect better from a "long time, highly-respected" editor, rather than bullying and insults for daring to post to their project while, gasp, not being a member. Please explain how you consider edit summaries such as "Persistant little bugger isn't he" to be acceptable on the MEDRS page. --K.e.coffman (talk) 21:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I strongly suggest that you strike comments <redacted> - such inflammatory comments do nothing to resolve the situation and only make coming to a mutually agreeable consensus less likely. Behaviour like this can only drive editors away, possibly permanently, to the disadvantage of the encyclopedia.Nigel Ish (talk) 21:58, 8 April 2018 (UTC) Redacted upon request. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:22, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think I made it clear that my posts had to do with trying to explain the "bottom line" in this issue. I am also suggesting that my long time experience with an editor points to an underlying history of behaviour. If you want to start discussing who said what in this specific case, well then we have to place everyone in context and deal with all editors. I don't care about doing that; people get frustrated that's all I have say about both here. As for wildflowers; where I came from you can be fined and maybe even arrested for picking endangered plants. My analogy though stops at one is too many when there are lots of people saying its ok for me. Shooting someone in the head leans towards hyperbole, non? The RfC was closed; most of us would toddle off and find another notice board where we could get feedback. We can't force an RfC; this is a collaborative community whether we like it or not.(Littleolive oil (talk) 22:13, 8 April 2018 (UTC))
- @Littleolive oil: To continue the analogy of "picking wild flowers", if you are caught doing this, a Park Service ranger <redacted> may fine or even arrest you, but they will now shower you with insults. We should expect better from a "long time, highly-respected" editor, rather than bullying and insults for daring to post to their project while, gasp, not being a member. Please explain how you consider edit summaries such as "Persistant little bugger isn't he" to be acceptable on the MEDRS page. --K.e.coffman (talk) 21:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You are confusing evidence with opinion and you are not understanding how collaboration works. As long as that is the case there's not much more, I at least, can say. You are pushing on a very big rock when you try to redefine what the MEDRS NB is and what it handles. Its frustrating for those who work here all the time. You are refusing to take your case some where else where it could legitimately be dealt with. Best wishes.(Littleolive oil (talk) 21:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC))
- You're here to defend your friend, not give an opinion based on the evidence. Geogene (talk) 20:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You are making assumptions based on the fact that someone disagrees with you. I've read through most if not all of the posts on this issue. You are refusing to see how the Wikipedia community deals with MEDRS. While you may have a personal and perhaps legitimate position, that position is not shared by the people who have worked in this area, and probably with the community as a whole. And you are ignoring what I wrote above. This reminds me of people who insist on picking wild flowers in protected areas. "I can pick them; its just a few," while ignoring that fact that if everyone picked a few there would be nothing left. If everyone brought what they personally "thought" is medical related the medical project notice board, the MEDRS notice board could not function. This is a collaborative project not one owned by everyone with an opinion. I've had arguments with Rexx; what I know is that he's honest and tries to be fair and kind whether I agree or not. If he's not in this case you might look to yourself. It can be hard to back down from a position but there is dignity in that too.(Littleolive oil (talk) 20:49, 8 April 2018 (UTC))
- I understand that your experiences may have been different, but nothing on that page or on this noticeboard shows Rexx as worthy of being "highly respected" or even capable of fairness or neutrality. What I see here is a partisan POV warrior who has a serious problem with gun control. Geogene (talk) 19:47, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think this is a pretty obvious example of canvassing. Especially since Geogene said he expected WP:MED to be sympathetic to his point of view. Even if gun violence in the contect of medicine is relevant to WP:MED, an individual weapon obviously is not. Natureium (talk) 20:08, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- "I think this is a pretty obvious example of canvassing" What are you referring to? Add: I cannot speak for anyone else here but I have not discussed this with anyone nor has anyone asked for my input on this. I started watching this yesterday and did not intend to comment for fear of adding fuel to the proverbial fire, but as someone who has connections to the MEDRS page and comments here every now and then I finally decided to add a comment.(Littleolive oil (talk) 20:58, 8 April 2018 (UTC))
- fwiw I considered the removal of the RfC notice kind of.. i don't know....rude, and in my view it cast WPMED in a poor light. If people want to editors active at WP:MED to made aware of something, that is the place to do it. People are free to ignore it if they wish. There is an obvious public health connection with gun violence (our article about the agreement that is the subject of the RfC (National Firearms Agreement) cites for example PMID17170183 from the Journal of Injury Prevention , as well as others, which analyze the effects of the agreement and subsequent laws on deaths from guns.) It isn't CANVASS because the notice itself was neutral, and Geogene also posted at FIREARMS and the article on the port arthur incident itself, per their contribs from that time.
- This happened when I wasn't looking and I wish that Ozzie10aaaa, RexxS, and Natureium hadn't done this, and I ask you all to reverse yourselves so this can go away. Jytdog (talk) 21:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Jytdog, I think you're wrong about it not being canvassing. When an editor admits that he posted somewhere specifically because he thought that the editors there would be more likely to agree with their position, that is canvassing, by definition. The purpose of neutral pointers is to get more participants involved in a discussion, not to get more participants of a particular kind. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I don't think that there's anything left to "reverse". The RFC note is still at WT:MED, neatly boxed up by the ever-practical soupvector to stop people talking about whether it belonged there.
- For those that don't follow WT:MED every day,[1] we just had a big discussion about this a couple of weeks ago. The group doesn't care about individual brands or models of firearms. The group does care about big-picture public health subjects, such as Gun violence (now re-re-tagged for WPMED over the objections of a non-participant who thought that we shouldn't care). The RFC in question is about whether to place a link about an event in the article about a particular brand and model of firearm. In other words, the RFC is about exactly what we said a few weeks ago that we didn't care about. Short of every editor reading All The Pages every day, there's no way that anyone would have known about this, but the end result is the same: It's out of scope for this group, even though it's connected, at one or two removes, to things that we would support. It therefore doesn't surprise or distress me that an editor who didn't know about that discussion might leave a note, or that an editor who did know about that decision removed it. This kind of thing happens, and it shouldn't have turned into this mess, but I think everyone's done now. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:03, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- [1] If you don't, then you're missing out.
- As much as I'd like to take credit for neatly boxing that particular puddle of poo, it was the wise Natureium who deserves that credit. — soupvector (talk) 23:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Jytdog, I think you're wrong about it not being canvassing. When an editor admits that he posted somewhere specifically because he thought that the editors there would be more likely to agree with their position, that is canvassing, by definition. The purpose of neutral pointers is to get more participants involved in a discussion, not to get more participants of a particular kind. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- As a participant of the Council.....it's very disappointing to see the harsh response an editor new to the project got. Does not look inviting for new people interested in the project. --Moxy (talk) 23:25, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
User WeWuzPhoenicians
| (non-admin closure) Blocked. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:59, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi, WeWuzPhoenicians is engaged in multiple edit wars. This user has been blocked temporarily but as soon as the block expired, he came back and is actually going on with his disruptive edits and accuses other contributors like me or Dimadick of "vandalism". Please have a look and note that WeWuzPhoenicians and IP 151.236.179.140 are suspected socks (they edit in the same way in numerous articles and a SPI is opened). Some evidences of edit warring : [165], [166]. I have helped him and found a source for one of his edits : [167]. I also proposed to help him finding reliables sources, but this was declined. He also erased all the discussions and warnings in his talk page : [168]. I have not reverted his edit here : [169] where he replaces Assyrian with Arab without providing any verifiable relable source (however, the article does not contain a source for the Assyrian claim either, but this is not a legit reason for replacing an unsourced claim with another unsourced claim), i think it's better that an admin deals with this case. Thanks.---Wikaviani (talk) 21:38, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- I want to note that the name "WeWuzX" is possibly related to the meme "We Wuz Kangz", a racist meme that is popular right now based on the latest Assassins Creed game. Probably a troll. --Tarage (talk) 22:50, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- "Just another Kang" from their user page. Yep. Troll. Good block. --Tarage (talk) 22:51, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- See how much I miss out on by not playing video games? Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:59, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Legacypac accusations of bad faith, COI while editing DS firearms articles
| The bickering on this subject needs to stop, right quickly. That can happen in a few ways. The most preferable way is that everyone involved tone it down quite a few notches and keep the discussion focused on content only, without making it about the other editors. And as a quick point of reference, if anyone can tell what your personal opinion is on a topic from the way you're editing or discussing it, you're doing it wrong. Neutrality is hard, but it is required. The second is to engage dispute resolution, whether that be something like mediation to have a more structured and less heated discussion or a request for comment to get more uninvolved editors involved. The third and least desirable option is to keep it up until topic bans start to get imposed (and if anyone in this discussion thinks "It'll only be on the other guys", I'd rethink that pretty quickly, no one's blameless here), and we're getting very near that point, so I'd suggest one of the above two options be used very soon. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:08, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Legacypac has made a number of uncivil accusations towards me relating to edits primarily on the talk pages of firearms articles. While I'm sure we don't hold the same views on the subject I do not appreciate accusations that my edits, ore more often my talk page comments are "whitewashing". Repeated accusations of WP:POVPUSH, accusations of whitewashing, and not very sutle accusations of COI are not condusive to WP:CIVIL editing (examples below).
I have tried to reach out to Legacypac to address these issues on the editor's talk page. Initially here [[170]] and after additional instances incivility here [[171]]
Several associated with the article 2018 NRA boycott that related to a request to remove material that I felt was WP:SYN. Consensus on the article page and a NORN thread supported removal. Accusations were made on both locations and at myself and a second editor.
- March 13, "I'm tiring of your pro-NRA advocacy User:Springee. This is an area under discretionary sanctions." [[172]]
- March 13, Similar comment directed at another editor "A review of [User]'s recnet contributions show NRA whitewashing. I remind this user that this topic is under discretionary sanctions. " [[173]] Note edit summary
- March 14, "Anyone reviewing edit histories can see which editors are whitewashing and even the big name media is picking up on the effort of these editors. " [[174]]
- March 17, from the NORN discussion related to this material, "These two editors are the ones arguing to remove it. In fact Springee has a history of trying to downplay anything negative about the NRA. The RS are noticing. [links to external media]" [[175]]
Non-firearms article:
- March 18, "Stop trying to whitewash this page", [[176]]
Noticeboard comments:
- March 26, "And why is it when you can't sufficently push your pro NRA pro gun POV on the article you come running to this board? You have noticed that the world is noticing this whitewashing effort? [Link to blog post by blocked editor Lightbreather]" [[177]], Archived discussion [[178]]
Smith and Wesson article:
- April 2, "You will not whitewash the page completely", [[179]], upon a talk page[[180]] request this one was removed. [[181]]
- April 2, "Wow you are narrowly focused on reasons to exclude a good source where the headline names S&W. Here is another [removed ref] but I'm sure there is something wrong with this source too" [[182]]
AfD discussion page:
- April 2, "Pretty POV of Springee - when will you stop advocating against any transparency around the NRA's activities?" [[183]] Per a talk page comment I requested this comment be removed. [[184]]
Talk page implication of COI:
- April 2, "Are you in anyway employed by a gun manufacturer or the NRA? Just wondering?" [[185]] A quick search of my edit history shows no firearms edits at all prior to Aug 2016 and until late last year only limited involvement.
Several times Legacypac has linked to a few external media articles that started with an article in The Verge about Ar-15 edits on Wikipedia. I discussed the very questionable articles here [[186]]. I think it is uncivil to use questionable articles as a way to impugn the actions of other editors.
I'm not requesting sanctions, only that the accusations etc stop. Springee (talk) 04:18, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- It would be interesting to see some specific edits that the two of you are arguing about. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:04, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Springee states that he or she is asking "only that the accusations etc stop", so let's consider accusations that have been made. (1) Springee has a history of wanting the removal of negative information relating to gun supporters in the United States. Legacypac regards that as editing to support a point of view, and uses the word "whitewashing" to describe it. Legacypac has a perfect right to hold that view, and it is not reasonable to attempt to suppress his or her right to express the opinion. (2) Legacypac has asked whether Springee has a conflict of interest, and received an unequivocal answer "no". Having received that answer, Legacypac must now drop the matter, and not suggest that Springee has a conflict of interest again unless and until there is clear evidence that Springee in fact does have one. Persisting in repeatedly making such an accusation without substantiation is both a failure to assume good faith and a violation of Wikipedia's policy on harassment. (3) Springee needs to be careful about making accusations against Legacypac. For example, Springee has linked to this talk page section, referring to it as "additional instances incivility", but while Legacypac firmly expressed critical views of Springee's editing, he or she did do perfectly civilly. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 08:53, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Is is really a legit question? Springee has a 10 year edit history, editing more than firearms articles. It should be obviousl that there was not a "paid editor" issue. The COI "question" was not called for. And the term "whitewashing" is being used in a manner that suggests collusion or nefarious motives. The technical use of the word may not be wrong, but the implication is clear. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- I had closed this section, but on representation from Springee I am reopening it, to allow Legacypac a chance to respond. There is also a question of whether "whitewashing" is, as I took it, simply a term describing repeated removal of content supporting a particular position by someone who clearly disagrees with that position, or something more reprehensible. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:35, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
Thank-you JamesBWatson. Your close was fine I asked the other editor once if they had a COI and they said no, which I take them at their word for. When I used the term whitewashing (just like other editors do [187]) I refer to removing any negative information about a subject from the page directly, and indirectly by attacking the critical Reliable Sources used, weight, relevance and so on on the talkpages/RS notice board etc of any material that the NRA would not want on the page. At issue are facts like:
- some guns are commonly and in legislation called assault rifles [188] [189]
- there is significant backlash against the NRA because of their response to recent mass shootings including the 2018 NRA boycott [190], and somewhere he deleted a link I placed to this article from I recall the NRA page.
- that the NRA has been suggesting boycotts of opponents for years [191], which he sees as irrelevant to the current boycotts and NRA response and that
- Smith & Wesson changed their name to American Outdoor Brands Corporation [192] [193] to blunt criticism.
Examples and supplied links are just some I was able to quickly gather from memory. None of them illustrate the talkpage POV pushing.
(By the way the American Outdoor Brands Corporation and Smith & Wesson pages cover the exact same company under two names. The page incorrectly identifies S&W as a subsidiary of itself. Further Smith & Wesson is basically G11 material - a glowing advertisement and product catalog with subpages for each gun they make.)
There are multiple editors whitewashing gun topics and mainstream media has noticed:
| This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:
|
Anyway as I said, this editor has been editing like you would expect someone on the NRA payroll to edit (which is why I asked about COI). I reviewed some recent contributions after they filed this report and there appears to be some recent moderation in their POV pushing. I'll not claim all the credit for pushing them in the direction of NPOV but I hope that trend continues. Hope that clears things up. Legacypac (talk) 11:31, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- Legacypac, there is a difference between saying the edit is a problem and saying I'm POV pushing. I think the same argument could be made about your edits but I haven't because I would like to keep things civil, hence reaching out to you twice. You accuse me of POV push but lets review the example where you lodged most of the accusations. "That edit is whitewashing" is about the edit. "And why is it when you can't sufficently push your pro NRA pro gun POV on the article you come running to this board? You have noticed that the world is noticing this whitewashing effort?" is about the motives of the editor and not civil.
- In reply to your numbered points.
- 1. You didn't note that there were a number of edits related to what to call the rifles and that a talk page discussion said that they shouldn't be called "assault rifles" (start of back and forth[[194]]). Additionally the source for the claim didn't use the term "assault rifle" so the change is completely appropriate per contentious wp:label [[195]]. I believe sticking to what the source says and avoiding contentious labels is good practice.
- 2. This was early on in the existence of the article and I wasn't the only one who was concerned that the article was more like a cry for action against companies rather than a neutral description of events (which were still unfolding). The edit was BOLD and reverted and I moved it to the talk page. You may not agree but that doesn't justify personal attacks.
- 3. This edit suggests you were tone deaf to policy. You felt the information was relevant but could find no RSs linking material from 2014 to the 2018 Boycott. Rather than discuss policy the first thing you did was attack @Miguel Escopeta: and myself. You continued the attacks on the NORN discussion. In the end you were the sole editor who felt the material was supported by policy. If you are the only one supporting inclusion maybe the issue isn't POV push but policy. I'm not saying you were wrong for opposing removal but that opposition didn't need to include attacking other editors.
- 4. OK, bring that up as a RfC or such. That doesn't justify attacking me for pointing out that the edits being added were using sources that didn't support the claims being made. The originating editor was previously blocked for sock editing and edit warring (and is currently topic blocked for these edits) so it's understandable that myself and others weren't quick to embrace the material. If you had opened up a talk page discussion asking how we can get the material in I think you would find I was supportive in general but not of the exact text and I wasn't interested in helping an editor who had accused me of being a S&W employee etc.
- Your reposed a series of poor quality opinion articles based on one published by the Verge. The author of the Verge article contacted me 24 hr prior to publication, asked a vague question that made the tone of the article clear. I didn't reply. Earlier in this ANI I posted a link my take on the article and the gross errors the author made in his telling of events. Those articles don't justify uncivil comments towards other editors.
- Your block log and previous ANI cases shows you have a history of bullying[[196]] and I think that is what is going on here. I'm not asking you to change your mind or agree with my edit suggestions. I also don't think this rises to any sanctions. I'm only asking that you assume good faith and discuss the edits, not the editor. This shouldn't be too much to ask. Springee (talk) 12:59, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- You consider Newsweek and Haaretz to be "poor quality" publications? Your deliberate lack of response to the writer from The Verge was a strategic error - if you wanted your point of view to be presented, you have to actually tell the writer what it is. Now, you have no-one to blame but yourself if the article didn't mention where you're coming from, so you're in no position to bitch about it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Beyond My Ken - Could you possibly mischaracterize this issue any more than you just did? I have to wonder if you actually read this ANI report before posting that comment. This isn't about Springee's POV not being represented correctly, or at all, by The Verge. This is about Springee asking LegacyPac to knock off the persistent accusations of COI and POV-pushing, which have crossed the line into blatant personal attacks. So not only do you have this 100% wrong, but your characterization of Springee's request as "bitching" is appallingly rude and a violation of NPA. You need to strike your comment and post an apology to Springee immediately. You owe him that. People should be able to seek re-dress for issues here without being unjustifiably attacked. - theWOLFchild 11:39, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I was also contacted, but the way the writer was framing his questions, it was obvious he had a POV that he was going to advance. He didn't want to hear my side, he wanted to refute my side in the article, where I'd have no control over how he presented what I said. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:03, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- You do know that it's extremely rare for writers to give the people they interview control over what they write, don't you? And, as I said to Springee, if you are correct that the writer had a preset bias, the only way you had available to you to hope that your point of view was presented in the article was to engage him or her with as convincing an argument as you could make. If you didn't do that, you can hardly complain if the article wasn't balanced. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:32, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what in my response made you think I expected control over what was written? Maybe I wasn't clear: I KNOW I don't have control over what was written. Since the questions made it evident that the writer had a clear agenda, I had no confidence that what I did say would be presented in an impartial manner. He wasn't looking for my side of it. He was looking to cherry-pick a sentence or two and then spend as much prose as he wanted to refute it. I had zero confidence that there would be balance, so rather than participate and allow myself to be used to further his POV, I chose not to participate. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:27, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- It was your statement: "He didn't want to hear my side, he wanted to refute my side in the article, where I'd have no control over how he presented what I said." That seems clear enough to me: you didn;t talk to them because you'd have no control over how they used the material you provided for them. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:10, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- And then I clarified that further for you. Since it was an article where I'd have no control, I chose not to. I didn't expect control. I KNEW that I would not have control. If he appeared to be neutral and trying to simply report on the issue, I'd have been fine with the fact that I had no control. When it became evident that he was not neutral, I decided not to be a vehicle for his agenda. You can continue trying to act like I had some unrealistic expectation, but at this point, I've made it very clear that I didn't have one. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:23, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, you seem not to be getting, or to be deliberately ignoring, my point, which is that by not responding to the writer's inquiry, there was little or no chance that your point of view was going to be presented adequately, thus making your and Springee's feeling that the writer was going to put together a (from your POV) biased article a self-fulfilling prophecy. Given that, you are in no position to complain about the article's quality, since you did absolutely nothing to influence it when given the chance. So, stop bitching about it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:02, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- And unfortunately you seem to be either not getting or are deliberately ignoring my point. Given that I have made it crystal clear that I had no expectation of editorial control and explained why I didn't agree to participate, I'm not sure why you feel like you need to 'win' something. In any case, I can "bitch" as long as I please and you can stop acting like you are some sort of arbitor about what I can or can't talk about. Last I checked, you're just another editor like I am. When you get knighted the Prince of Wikipedia, let me know. Until then....well, I'll choose to be more civil than you were. Niteshift36 (talk) 20:29, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Oh, sure, you can continue to bitch that the article you refused to give information to was biased, you simply won't be in any way justified in doing so. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:39, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Beyond My Ken - Could you possibly mischaracterize this issue any more than you just did? I have to wonder if you actually read this ANI report before posting that comment. This isn't about Springee's POV not being represented correctly, or at all, by The Verge. This is about Springee asking LegacyPac to knock off the persistent accusations of COI and POV-pushing, which have crossed the line into blatant personal attacks. So not only do you have this 100% wrong, but your characterization of Springee's request as "bitching" is appallingly rude and a violation of NPA. You need to strike your comment and post an apology to Springee immediately. You owe him that. People should be able to seek re-dress for issues here without being unjustifiably attacked. - theWOLFchild 11:39, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- The articles in question were simply reporting what The Verge article said and for failing to investigate further the articles were poor (I don't recall claiming the publications as a whole were poor). The author of the Verge article presumably sent the same email to quite a number of editors. The question was vague and didn't suggest any interest in a real discussion. I was told the article was going out in 24 hours. Mind you at that point I had almost no idea what the article was going to say. I honestly didn't have much of a POV on the subject other than to say the author got a lot of things very wrong because they didn't do their homework. If you are interested in it, please see this talk page thread [[197]].
- In somewhat condensed form, the author claimed people were trying to remove mass shooting information from the AR-15 article. But the author didn't bother to do their homework and didn't understand that there had been some churning of article names and thus confusion as to what went where. This happened just after the FL shooting so many new authors descended on what they thought was the right article and started adding material... but there was a problem. What started as the generic AR-15 article was changed to the Colt AR-15 (last spring if I recall) article because "AR-15" is a trademarked name. The conclusion at the time, as I recall as a largely uninvolved party, was change "AR-15" to "Colt AR-15" and then make a generic AR-15 page (and there was a debate about the correct page name... this is Wikipedia of course). Because "Colt AR-15" is a brand specific page, general AR-15 mass shooting information wasn't on topic, that would go in the generic AR-15 page. But this is Wikipedia. No one bothered to update the redirect links so "AR-15" searches (and thus web searches) found the Colt page rather than the generic AR-15 page. Editors on the Colt page would rightly remove general AR-15 material from the specific page but editors who were new were understandably confused. To make things worse, someone decided "Modern Sporting Rifles" was the correct name for the generic AR-15 page (a mistake that was being corrected before the Verge article came out). Wikipedia being what it is, it the editors who made the changes didn't finish the job and setup the links etc and we have odd names for articles. The Verge author sees only the surface and assumes this is some sort of mass conspiracy to censor articles and we have the story in question. A bit of digging would have shown this was simply the convergence of a major news story at the same time the articles were taking their time to evolve.
- The article also mentions some NRA edits and notes certain material that was removed. However, it doesn't ask if the material's removal was valid. I think any long time Wikipedia editor will understand that sometimes material is removed because it isn't properly sourced (source doesn't support the claim, not reliable etc, added by a blocked sock editor). Since I wasn't directly involved with most of the material discussed in the article I think my non-reply to a vague question was the right choice. It was interesting to note that some comments in reply to the article basically supported what was happening at the Wikipedia articles. So what should we make of Legcaypac's reply below? Well there is a failure to understand the subject yet a willingness to assign motives without knowing the whole story. An attempt to mock and disparage which I suspect is not in line with WP:CIVIL behavior. I suspect that is part of the problem with the 2018 NRA Boycott incivility I noted above. Rather than look at the content as unsupportable by policy, Legacypac decided the only reason for removal would have to be bias/POVPUSH. At the end of the day that seems to have blinded Legacypac to problems that other editors had no issue finding. As Legacy said, I'm sure he he is a true believer in whatever he believes. All I was asking was that he follow the rules for civility when he disagrees. Springee (talk) 02:45, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- You consider Newsweek and Haaretz to be "poor quality" publications? Your deliberate lack of response to the writer from The Verge was a strategic error - if you wanted your point of view to be presented, you have to actually tell the writer what it is. Now, you have no-one to blame but yourself if the article didn't mention where you're coming from, so you're in no position to bitch about it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- News org Verge found Springee's POV pushing so blatant they call Springee up for an interview and write an article about it. Newsweek and two other places pick up the story.
- Springee files an ANi against me because I independently came to the same assessment about Springee's specific agenda editing as Verge and Newsweek!
- First, That's awesome! No wonder Springee is so sensitive to any mention of the news coverage detailing how they personally brought Wikipedia into disrepute by whitewashing gun related pages. Second, congratulation are in order - we should put a DYK about Springee's editing making Newsweek. That's a rare honor indeed.
- I think we can close this discussion again unless someone wants to use DS to topic ban Springee for editing so POV that four media outlets wrote it up. Legacypac (talk) 13:52, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- The above is a clearly uncivil comment and illustrates exactly the sort of behavior that I've been concerned about. The edit justification assocaited with that addition is also a civility problem. [[198]] Based on the above comment I would like to request a formal warning for incivility. Springee (talk) 14:01, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
News org Verge found Springee's POV pushing so blatant they call Springee up for an interview
- Legacypac, can you post a link that proves The Verge found "Springee's POV pushing" to be "so blatant" and that it is the reason they contacted him? Can you also provide links supporting your comment about "four media outlets writing about Springee's POV"..? (specifically) Otherwise, you should strike your comments and apologize. - theWOLFchild 05:26, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Suggesting the DYK is exactly the sort of behavior that makes it difficult to work with you. Some writer with an agenda writes a one-sided opinion piece and you act like it was carried down from the mountain by Moses. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- The box I posted was created by some other editor(s), I just borrowed it from the AR-15 talkpage.
- The above is a clearly uncivil comment and illustrates exactly the sort of behavior that I've been concerned about. The edit justification assocaited with that addition is also a civility problem. [[198]] Based on the above comment I would like to request a formal warning for incivility. Springee (talk) 14:01, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Legacypac: I have told you that you must stop the accusations of conflict of interest. I know that "editing like you would expect someone on the NRA payroll to edit (which is why I asked about COI)" stops short of actually saying that Springee has a conflict of interest, but in the context it clearly makes a not very deeply veiled implication to that effect. If I see you do anything like that again I shall block you from editing. I may also say that other aspects of your editing on this page is much more in line with a battleground approach to other editors than like an attempt to resolve disagreements. Your comments here have certainly led me to move somewhat away from the position that I expressed when I originally closed this discussion, and I hope I don't find it necessary to move further in the same direction. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 14:35, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- User:JamesBWatson I've never once said he had a COI (as you correctly note) and I only once asked nicely if there was one so we could get that out of the way as he keep coming to my talk to complain. There is no accusations of "bad faith" - I'm sure he is a true believer in whatever he believes. That dispenses with the false headline. I was not even going to comment here until I was pretty much forced to by the discussion on your talkpage - hardly battleground behavior on my part. Legacypac (talk) 15:33, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- " I've never once said he had a COI (as you correctly note)". Are you familiar with the term paralipsis? Niteshift36 (talk) 18:28, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- I read Legacypac's bringing up the subject not as a rhetorical way to circumvent JBW's instructions, but simply as part of their explanation for their actions. Now that they have done so, bringing it up again would be a different matter. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:14, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- User:JamesBWatson I've never once said he had a COI (as you correctly note) and I only once asked nicely if there was one so we could get that out of the way as he keep coming to my talk to complain. There is no accusations of "bad faith" - I'm sure he is a true believer in whatever he believes. That dispenses with the false headline. I was not even going to comment here until I was pretty much forced to by the discussion on your talkpage - hardly battleground behavior on my part. Legacypac (talk) 15:33, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Springee: you write:
the [Verge] author claimed people were trying to remove mass shooting information from the AR-15 article
[199], but the thing is that editors are still removing mass shooting information, even though it is *specifically* about the model in question: "remove Part Arthur Massacre per overwhelming consensus on talk page", 3 April 2018. The "overwhelming consensus" is the past discussions where editors were attempting to enforce WP:Local consensus of the now-deprecated "criminal use" essay; see for example: Talk:Colt_AR-15#Proposal_2.
- It would help greatly if you step in every now and then to help enforce Wikipedia's policies, even if it means going against WP:GUNS local consensus sometimes. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:20, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, the Port Arthur material is currently the subject of a talk page discussion. You say "enforce Wikipedia's policies" but which ones? These all can be distilled down to WP:weight (other than the cases where RS's don't support article claims). The issue I've raised is reciprocity of weight. You and I discussed it here [[200]]. It's improper to assume that those who are against including many of these facts aren't doing it against policy. Rather we don't agree on what constitutes weight in the context of the article. When are mentions in context of the crime (the car used, the gun used) due weight in context of the car or gun. I noted the contrast between how we treat the car and the gun used in the same crime. A well subscribed RfC said the Chevy Caprice article shouldn't mention the blue Caprice used as a shooting platform in the D.C. sniper attacks. The crime is mentioned on the page of the type of gun used in the crime. We disagree on the relative weight here but that disagreement is only over how to interpret weight in context. This isn't like the boycott case above where no policy was cited for inclusion. BTW, I'm for inclusion of the Port Arther material in large part because I think the weight is sufficient and because of the firearms project suggestions for when to include a crime on a gun page [[201]]. When the RfC comes I will support some type of inclusion. I was also for adding the mass shooting information to the AR-15 page. [[202]] This is rather off topic. You and I have disagreed but your disagreements are civil and stick to the subject, not the editor. I started this ANI to get Legacypac to do the same. Springee (talk) 04:10, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- @JamesBWatson, I'm disapointed that rather than see the problem with a post and edit summary such as this one [[203]]. Legacypac's reply to your warning suggest they feel there was nothing wrong with the comment. I think the editor either needs to acknowledge civility policy [[204]], in particular "Avoid appearing to ridicule another editor's comment," and "Be careful with edit summaries". Springee (talk) 12:13, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Were you, in fact, contacted by mainstream media such as Newsweek? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:19, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Newsweek? No. The Verge, yes, along with other editors, presumably on all sides of the edit debate. Contrary to Legacypac's bad faith accusations above, the email says I was contacted simply because I was one of the editor's involved on the talk pages. Email text below.
- (Redacted)
- Springee (talk) 13:21, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in emailing anyone here. So, were others on the talk page contacted also? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 13:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- The email I received was not personalized and the reporter said they were contacted multiple editors. Springee (talk) 13:43, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I was contacted and after further inquiry, it was evident to me that the writer had a POV to advance, so I declioned. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:31, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- The email I received was not personalized and the reporter said they were contacted multiple editors. Springee (talk) 13:43, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in emailing anyone here. So, were others on the talk page contacted also? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 13:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Proposal
Both Legacypac and Springee display strong emotional involvement with this subject, and it is not bringing out the best in either of them. This can't be viewed outside the the current political context, especially #NeverAgain and the objectively horrible response of the NRA and some of its surrogates. Springee's focus is mainly political and he edits a lot of firearms articles, mainly from a sympathetic perspective, but his edits also encompass many other topic areas. Legacypac has a much broader editing focus. Neither is the kind of SPA POV warrior for whom sanctions were originally enacted. I suggest that rather than formal sanctions on long-standing editors, we invite them both instead to take a 3 month break from this topic area. Otherwise it's going to end up with topic bans, and actually I don't think that will help Wikipedia in this case as both of them leave articles better than they started, even when they are butting heads. Guy (Help!) 09:40, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I edit from a pro-verifiable facts perspective. I'll admit a bias against killing people. Legacypac (talk) 15:45, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- And Springee would doubtless say the same. Guy(Help!) 16:14, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- "I'll admit a bias against killing people". And the fact that you see this as a crusade against "killing people" speaks volumes. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:31, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- In general I have nothing against Legacypac's edits. I feel some aren't improvements or don't follow policy but in all cases I think they are legitimate, good faith efforts on which we disagree. Editorial disagreements aren't why I started this ANI. I simply want Legacypac to adhere to the WP:FOC policy. Comments about my supposed motivations are not focusing on the content in question. The insulting comment above is anything but FOC. If Legacypac agrees that going forward they will FOC when discussing editorial disagreements I'm fine. I will try to do the same and my talk page is open to Legacypac if they think I'm doing otherwise. Springee (talk) 17:10, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- And Springee would doubtless say the same. Guy(Help!) 16:14, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've only recently started paying attention to firearms-related articles, but it's immediately obvious that people are often incredibly unpleasant towards each other on this subject. Springee isn't. Getting into a disagreement with him is a far more positive experience than agreeing with many other editors in this area. From what I can tell, this report isn't about some kind of content disagreement, but about unpleasant behavior. Also, no one is even asking for a topic ban (although I guess Legacypac brought it up for some reason I don't understand). Asking Springee to stop editing because of someone else's unpleasant behavior would be a disservice to the encyclopedia. Red Rock Canyon (talk) 04:14, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Legacypac has a long history of unpleasant behavior and civility issues. That's why Springee came here. There are long-time editors who, I'm certain, are aware of LP's "way" of treating editors he disagrees with or simply doesn't like, but seem to be glossing over that common knowledge. I've never understood why LP has been allowed to continue on with this behavior over the years. When is enough going to be enough? Springee has a long history here with a clean block log and a good reputation. LP has and a long history and has been blocked more than once for harassment and incivility. Two months ago, LP was blocked for two weeks as a result of harassing another editor and edit warring. One day later, he was unblocked. And here we are again. Will a three week block now result in just two days of time-out this time around or will someone really do what should have been done in February? Why Springee is being doubted as to who's the issue here is beyond my understanding. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 02:01, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Nice you could share your thoughts based on your extensive experience. Legacypac (talk) 02:20, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- No problem. And yes, I do have "experience" (as seen here). -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 02:32, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Worst block ever based on my extending sn olive branch to you. I was not even involved in whatever got you blocked that time and I should have taken that Admin to ArbComm for abuse of tools. Anyway, you are not worth my time so stop trolling to settle old scores. Legacypac (talk) 02:43, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Nice you could share your thoughts based on your extensive experience. Legacypac (talk) 02:20, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Legacypac, I don't know about your history with Winkelvi but changing the title of the thread [[205]] seems like more of the battleground behavior @JamesBWatson: was talking about. Springee (talk) 03:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Wikielvi has been trolling me (and others) for years. Your section header is a baseless personal attack and I'm well within my rights to neutralize it. You need to stop making my editing your concern. Legacypac (talk) 03:11, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Legacypac, it is inappropriate to place a warning on my talk page [[206]] for reverting your attempt to change the section title of my complaint against you. I don't think edit warring the section title was what @JzG: had in mind. Springee (talk) 03:20, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
@JamesBWatson:, please note the accusations and disparaging remarks made on my talk page [[207]] and again after requesting that the topic not continue on my talk page[[208]]. Springee (talk) 03:31, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Evidently no point in trying to reason with the unreasonable. I think we are done here. Legacypac (talk) 04:02, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm sure Legacypac would very much like for this to be "done" the way it's going. This ANI is about his behaviour towards others, and in his last 3 posts he called Winkelvi a "troll" twice and characterized Springee as "unreasonable", which he's not, and himself as "reasonable" when he's a anything but. Springee has tried to give him an out here, all he has to do is stop the personal attacks, but he don't, or can't, even do that.
- @JzG, I see no reason why Springee should have to avoid editing any firearm articles for 3 months. Legacypac on the othe other hand could probably use a break from that topic, and that topic from him. Perhaps another proposal should be put forward to resolve this? - theWOLFchild 05:26, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive228#Thewolfchild for context. Legacypac (talk) 05:57, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- See: WP:BATTLE. - theWOLFchild 19:38, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive228#Thewolfchild for context. Legacypac (talk) 05:57, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've been trying to decide whether or not to keep a lid on it. I have concluded that an unlidding is in order. Legacypac has been somewhat emotional (understandably to a degree), but also hostile on Talk:Stoneman Douglas High School shooting where I have been active. They pointlessly threatened Mandruss (curtesy ping) with a TBAN, which has less than zero chance of being enacted, for quote unquote "way overboard on WP:BLUDGEONING this discussion". The discussion was extremely long and Mandruss made quite a number of comments, but to be fair they were repeatedly and unceasingly questioned throughout. I couldn't make a comment without an hours long thread spinning off from it. A more minor example from much earlier on the same page:
Why are you wasting my time with this foolishness and worse by reverting my sourced edit? That is pretty much vandalism
. This was a response to Mandruss for my removal of an edit of Legacy's conducted in the middle of a discussion over whether or not to include some material. You don't just override a discussion five minutes after its begun, and especially not after you've already commented on it (and are therefore aware of it). Diff of quote. There's general hostility on this page as well, I mean for pete's sake their very first comment in this section is:I edit from a pro-verifiable facts perspective. I'll admit a bias against killing people
. Who, fucking who, is advocating for killing people here? As I see it, one of two things needs to happen. Legacy needs to temper their emotions; the alternative is clear. Mr rnddude (talk) 12:18, 9 April 2018 (UTC) - Comment: We all know that tensions run high and people were / are still on edge and upset, in part over The Verge article. But I'm a bit surprised at some of the comments here. Especially considering that Thewolfchild's AR-15 quote, for example, was included in The Verge, too: "
If we start adding info about just one shooting incident to one tenuously-connected article, we’ll be opening a literal Pandora’s box (figuratively speaking)
" source.
- If any apologies and sanctions are warranted, such requests should probably come from those editors not cited in the press in re: recent gun-related Wiki controversies. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:13, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
You don't just override a discussion five minutes after its begun.
- No, but you can make a page move while the title is being currently discussed though, right? (twice!) And how can you possibly try to make this ANI about me? (seriously?) So what if the Verge quoted me? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that comment and I stand by it 100%. It's not as if I'm personally attacking anyone in it, which what this ANI is about (...and we're back on topic) - theWOLFchild 19:38, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- The focus on The Verge article is a red herring and has nothing to do with the complaint other than the general incivility of using it to bludgeon the discussion. That any editor was quoted by name or otherwise in that article doesn't mean the wp:CIVIL policies no longer apply nor that their voices no longer should matter. That's right there with guilty until proven innocent. Springee (talk) 19:02, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Me thinks WP:ARBCOM might be where this ends up. GoodDay (talk) 19:09, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think the proposal makes good sense, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus for it emerging here. If the proposal is'nt going to be the resolution, I think prolonging this discussion is simply keeping wounds open for the pouring of additional salt. So I hope some brave, uninvolved admin will close this up, with admonishments to everybody on this string that they're bound by FOC and CIVIL. David in DC (talk) 20:24, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Seraphimblade, I think it's very much worth noting that, as a result of my comments above, Legacypac decided to hound me over at an AfD, and after doing so, issued a threat and expressed his intent to be intentionally disruptive there should I respond to his comments. [209] This is the kind of crap that Legacypac is notorious for, and - it would seem from the result of this filing - that he gets away with over and over again. Editors are tired of it, to be frank. When is enough, enough? -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 18:04, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Repeated re-addition of off-topic personal attack
| Looks like there is nothing left to discuss--Ymblanter (talk) 01:55, 12 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Could someone block this IP, or semi-protect the talk page for a few days, or something? They've made it really clear they're not interested in improving the article to begin with, so it's not clear what they are even doing there.
Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:32, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- As personal attacks go, those are pretty lame. And you really shouldn't be messing with someone else's talk page unless it's something directed at you. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 23:09, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Baseball Bugs: Actually (assuming you meant "someone else's talk page comments") my understanding (per some earlier advice from EEng (talk · contribs) regarding similar remarks directed at me) is that it should be left to third parties to blank "borderline" personal attacks. Curly Turkey (talk · contribs) is pretty thick-skinned and doesn't seem to think much of blanking of personal attacks in general, but that doesn't mean a comment that essentially amounts to "you have been blocked in the past, so you're wrong" should be allowed stand. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- NeilN (talk·contribs) has reverted my latest removal with the curt edit summary "stop". If that's how it should be, then fine; I won't revert again now that someone other than the obvious sock-IP himself has re-added it. I guess if I was "wrong" that it should stay blanked as a personal attack, this thread can be closed now. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:17, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @Hijiri88: I've undone your repeated removal. Do not remove it again. It's certainly no worse than other editors' comments on that talk page including thinly veiled accusations of socking and "We already knew what bad-faith tricks you were up to" which you seem to have somehow overlooked. Everyone could stand to focus on content more and minimize the sniping. --NeilN talk to me 00:19, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
This thread should have already been closed. I don't like being told that it's my responsibility to tell editors I agree with that they should use the appropriate user conduct fora to discuss user conduct issues. But there's no point responding, so collapsing. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:33, 12 April 2018 (UTC) |
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User:Constantinehuk
Almost all contributions of this user in 2017 and 2018 are, well, trolling. How should we proceed from this point further?--Ymblanter (talk) 12:00, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Please give me some examples of that "trolling". If you do not like the idea that Kiev, naming of which in English was changed to Kyiv 25 years ago, the change adopted by major international organizations and modern online maps, thus fulfilling WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGES (and no another example of such an unfair treatment to a city in the whole world showed), you are entitled to your opinion. Anything else? Constantinehuk (talk) 13:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Your claim that Kyiv has been widely adopted in English language media and sources, and thus meets WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGES, is patently false, as has been proven countless times in the ongoing discussion on Talk:Kiev/naming, so you are now not only being highly disruptive in that discussion, by flatly refusing to accept that there's no support for moving the article, but are also repeating your false claims here, at WP:ANI... - TomThomas.W talk 14:08, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- "Your claim that Kyiv has been widely adopted in English language media and sources"
- Give me a citation of that my claim, will you? Constantinehuk (talk) 14:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Claiming that the change meets the demands set in WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGESis a false claim that a majority of English language media/sources have switched to using Kyiv instead of Kiev, since that is what is required to meet WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGES... - TomThomas.W talk 14:31, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Why one criterion (use by media sources) is more important for you than two others (use by major international organizations and modern online maps - especially when we talk about geographical names)? Constantinehuk (talk) 14:37, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGES is a Wikipedia policy, i.e. not just a personal opinion held by me or other editors but a firmly set rule... - TomThomas.W talk 14:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You have dismissed 2 of 3 criteria in that policy. Not good... Constantinehuk (talk) 18:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGES is a Wikipedia policy, i.e. not just a personal opinion held by me or other editors but a firmly set rule... - TomThomas.W talk 14:41, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Why one criterion (use by media sources) is more important for you than two others (use by major international organizations and modern online maps - especially when we talk about geographical names)? Constantinehuk (talk) 14:37, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Claiming that the change meets the demands set in WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGESis a false claim that a majority of English language media/sources have switched to using Kyiv instead of Kiev, since that is what is required to meet WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGES... - TomThomas.W talk 14:31, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Your claim that Kyiv has been widely adopted in English language media and sources, and thus meets WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGES, is patently false, as has been proven countless times in the ongoing discussion on Talk:Kiev/naming, so you are now not only being highly disruptive in that discussion, by flatly refusing to accept that there's no support for moving the article, but are also repeating your false claims here, at WP:ANI... - TomThomas.W talk 14:08, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- This article from the NY Times says "KIEV".[212] But what do they know? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 14:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Media sources still predominantly use "Kiev" - but not major international organizations, nor modern online maps. Constantinehuk (talk) 14:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- And in Google, "Kiev" outnumbers "Kyiv" by about 4 to 1. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 14:17, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- And in Google, "Bombay" outnumbers "Mumbay (including results for Mumbai)" by about 150:1. Kyiv is in much better position, is not it? Constantinehuk (talk) 14:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- The NY Times calls it "Mumbai".[213] ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 14:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- And when I Google "Mumbai" and "Bombay", "Mumbai" outnumbers "Bombay" at least 3 to 1. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 14:43, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Google ngrams. EEng 15:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- The comparison doesn't really show "the truth", since there are a still a few often Googled entities that use Bombay instead of Mumbai in their official names, such as Bombay Stock Exchange and Bombay High Court. - TomThomas.W talk 15:17, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'd go with the NY Times over the opinion of some random editor. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 15:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Why not with Google Maps or World Trade Organisation? Constantinehuk (talk) 18:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Less relevant. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Why not with Google Maps or World Trade Organisation? Constantinehuk (talk) 18:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'd go with the NY Times over the opinion of some random editor. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 15:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- The comparison doesn't really show "the truth", since there are a still a few often Googled entities that use Bombay instead of Mumbai in their official names, such as Bombay Stock Exchange and Bombay High Court. - TomThomas.W talk 15:17, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Google ngrams. EEng 15:07, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- And when I Google "Mumbai" and "Bombay", "Mumbai" outnumbers "Bombay" at least 3 to 1. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 14:43, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- The NY Times calls it "Mumbai".[213] ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 14:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- And in Google, "Bombay" outnumbers "Mumbay (including results for Mumbai)" by about 150:1. Kyiv is in much better position, is not it? Constantinehuk (talk) 14:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: I'm not sure if I agree with labelling Constantinehuk's editing as trolling, IMO it's more a case of not being here to build an encyclopaedia, only to push nationalistic Ukrainian views, as part of the latest wave of new Ukrainian editors doing that (with another one being Special:Contributions/Віталій Добрівський, an editor who has repeatedly added the blue/yellow trident state symbol of the modern day country of Ukraine as state symbol of Kievan Rus', with a false claim of it also having been used by them a thousand years ago...). - Tom Thomas.W talk 14:25, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Are major international organizations and modern online maps are too "pushing nationalistic Ukrainian views" (thus fulfilling WP:COMMONNAME/WP:NAMECHANGES)?
- P.S. And I said nothing about "blue/yellow trident state symbol". Constantinehuk (talk) 14:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- And no one claimed you did either, so maybe much of the problem lies in you simply not understanding English well enough to be able to contribute constructively to this version of Wikipedia? - TomThomas.W talk 14:37, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I suspect that User:Thomas.W is correct that Constantinhuk doesn't understand English well enough to follow the discussion. He and User:Roman Spinner are engaged in a massive WP:IDLI campaign without actually initiating a WP:RFM, which they both know that they would lose by WP:SNOW. --Taivo (talk) 17:36, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- When arguments are absent, blame the opponent and threaten with WP:SNOW? Very invigorating. Constantinehuk (talk) 18:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- You really, really need a new dictionary. EEng 18:50, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- When arguments are absent, blame the opponent and threaten with WP:SNOW? Very invigorating. Constantinehuk (talk) 18:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I suspect that User:Thomas.W is correct that Constantinhuk doesn't understand English well enough to follow the discussion. He and User:Roman Spinner are engaged in a massive WP:IDLI campaign without actually initiating a WP:RFM, which they both know that they would lose by WP:SNOW. --Taivo (talk) 17:36, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- And no one claimed you did either, so maybe much of the problem lies in you simply not understanding English well enough to be able to contribute constructively to this version of Wikipedia? - TomThomas.W talk 14:37, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
ANI is not the place to debate or resolve content disputes. However, this discussion illuminates the behavioral problem. Constantinehuk, this is a formal warning: Wikipedia operates on the consensus model of decision-making. Editing against consensus is tendentious and disruptive. If you continue pushing this point against consensus, you will be blocked. My personal suggestion is to devote your energy on this matter to persuading major English language newspapers, press agencies and news magazines to change their usage. Wikipedia follows such sources and does not lead them. Please take this warning seriously. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 18:54, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Cullen:, I obviously agree with your conclusions, just a remark: they were not editing (articles) against consensus, they were disrupting discussions, a skill they brilliantly demonstrated in this very topic (which was not supposed to be the discussion of the English name of the Ukrainian capital, but of the user's behavior).--Ymblanter (talk) 00:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you, Ymblanter. I appreciate the clarification but I did not mention "articles". I consider their talk page behavior to be editing against consensus as well. I will not comment on the substance of the content dispute and will stay uninvolved, but will be watching. Cullen328Let's discuss it 01:39, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Is not Talk page for expressing one's position (in a kindest and polite way) - for example, asking questions (as I did initially)? No, now it is called " the behavioral problem of pushing the point against consensus in tendentious and disruptive discussions" (even without reading those discussions, apparently). Very interesting changes are happening in Wikipedia (or only in your part of it?) right now... I will keep this in mind. Constantinehuk (talk) 08:21, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you, Ymblanter. I appreciate the clarification but I did not mention "articles". I consider their talk page behavior to be editing against consensus as well. I will not comment on the substance of the content dispute and will stay uninvolved, but will be watching. Cullen328Let's discuss it 01:39, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Since User:TaivoLinguist pinged me above, in this edit, it should be noted that the "massive WP:IDLI campaign", in which I am allegedly "engaged" alongside Constantinhuk, has taken place entirely at a single venue, Talk:Kiev/naming, which states at the top, "This is a subpage of Talk:Kiev for discussing the name of the article Kiev. Please take all discussion of the name here, reserving the regular talkpage for other matters. I hope that this division will benefit both the regular talkpage and the name discussion itself. Happy editing."
. I did not intiate the discussion, Question: Mumbai/Bombey and Beijing/Peking? and my contributions consisted entirely of a series of replies, to Taivo and other contributors, aimed primarily at correcting false and/or misleading statements and analogies. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:48, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Trolling continues [214]. Given that the user is net negative to Wikipedia, may be we should follow up.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:40, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- And let me be explicit: It is not up to me to decide, but I believe an indefinite block would be in order. We have enough Eastern European trolls, and this one is not there as well to let them continue wasting our time.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:42, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
BusriderSF2015
BusriderSF2015 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been a problem editor since 2015 and is due for a WP:CIR block. Busrider mostly posts serial messages to talk pages, neither using previews nor edit summaries. Both TBMNY and I reported them to AIV for vandalism after fourth warning because they continually post information with inadequate or no sourcing. Since Busrider's edits aren't considered blatant vandalism, I'm bringing the issue here. After multiple warnings, Busrider hasn't changed their editing and discussion is leading nowhere.
- Max Holloway (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) BusriderSF2015 repeatedly added copyrighted images (File:Max Halloway.jpg and ), for which I reverted and warned. This complaint by Busrider to RHaworth followed. A discussion on Wikiproject MMA illustrates my attempts to explain and his/her inability to get it. A discussion on TBMNY's talk page about commons:File:Raf.png and commons:File:Max Holloway E.png is also illustrative on the issue. Busrider made a complaint to Ad Orientem which evinces a level of confusion not befitting a Wikipedia editor.
- Mike Jackson (fighter) (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) Busrider also created this article about this non-notable fighter and despite my efforts on my talk page to engage him/her and explain the issues with the article in question, Busrider continues to argue that the subject is notable and what the subject said on a Reddit thread is a permissible source. Busrider also made this incompetent request for page protection on an article's talk page. I don't think Busrider understands the guidance given them and I don't think this disruption is worth our toleration. Chris Troutman (talk) 00:36, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
In addition, he has been caught lying about photo uploads to administrators, claiming that clearly copyrighted images are his own work, when they are of course not (not that this specifically applies to Wikipedia, but it shows that he's willing to break the site rules). TBMNY (talk) 00:53, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose - This gang-bang report is baseless - Contributors can behave differently (and follow the rules).🥇BUSriderSFUser (talk • contribs) 01:58, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- This what? Please address the issues raised above, they aren't baseless. I have significant concerns about your ability to edit Wikipedia productively, having reverted your RFPP removal. Acroterion (talk) 02:10, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment It baseless, i seen nothing on my talk page from the users reported me about concerns, as always go talk page regarding their concern. This case should be dismissed. 🥇BUSriderSFUser (talk • contribs) 02:16, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm guessing English isn't your first language? Acroterion (talk) 02:23, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- After reviewing this editor's contributions, it is obvious that they are not competent to edit Wikipedia. Indefinitely blocked. Acroterion (talk) 02:31, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment It baseless, i seen nothing on my talk page from the users reported me about concerns, as always go talk page regarding their concern. This case should be dismissed. 🥇BUSriderSFUser (talk • contribs) 02:16, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Very interesting choice of adjective. Natureium (talk) 02:32, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- I asked about the user's English to make sure that they were not being deliberately offensive - I don't think they really understand what they're saying, which confirms my assessment that they lack the necessary proficiency in English to edit here, in addition to the copyright violations and a policy of ignoring other editors. Acroterion (talk) 11:56, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- This what? Please address the issues raised above, they aren't baseless. I have significant concerns about your ability to edit Wikipedia productively, having reverted your RFPP removal. Acroterion (talk) 02:10, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
User warned multiple times
| And that is that. (non-admin closure) Erpert blah, blah, blah... 17:51, 12 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
| Blocked and protected. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 04:07, 11 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Wirrndalek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
He was warned multiple times, but he keeps adding unsourced content to the article Doctor Who (series 11). Titore (talk) 21:15, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Possible sock puppetry as Special:Contributions/Poleleads. DonQuixote (talk) 21:43, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sock drawer cleaned, page semi-protected. Courcelles (talk) 22:41, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Etc
Courcelles, you might want to mention on his/her talk page that s/he was indeffed (or is that not necessary to do anymore?). Erpert blah, blah, blah... 19:22, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- I’ve never seen the need to do it when blocking obvious ‘disposable‘ socks before. It’s not common practice among CUs, since the template appears if they try and edit anyhow. Courcelles (talk) 19:48, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- I never notify blatant sock puppet accounts or LTA's that they're blocked - at that point, it just gives them more of your time and effort that, quite frankly - they don't deserve. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:55, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
WP:NOTHERE sock
| All blocked. --NeilN talk to me 11:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hazratleri, per his edit summary[215] is WP:NOTHERE, and he is also engaging in sock puppetry per checkuser results at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Hazratleri. Should some admin already block these confirmed socks? Raymond3023 (talk) 05:10, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- If they were really confirmed then they would be blocked. What I read from what is written is that they are likely related which would mean that some behavioral evaluation is needed. What I see when I run a check is: three editors, three different countries with two on proxies. Two of the UAs match as it is a common UA, one on a proxy, one not. So it should be decided based on behavior.
— Berean Hunter(talk) 05:54, 11 April 2018 (UTC)- I have struck confirmed because likely is the result. But there is nothing to left to wait for given its a case of WP:DUCK, and the accounts are used only for edit warring on Hookah for restoring a particular version. He is also engaging in massive canvassing,[216][217][218] and still edit warring. He is here for ethnicity-related POV pushing (WP:NOTHERE), should be blocked already with other two accounts and there should be no unblock without a topic ban. Raymond3023 (talk) 06:23, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Northernelk888
| Policy considerations are straightforward, blocked. Swarm ♠ 08:33, 12 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have sent this editor five messages, in Jan, Feb and March - no response to any of it, but they do know how to respond to talk page messages and have done so to others. I was contacting them about creating unreferenced articles. I have pointed them towards WP:V, WP:BURDEN and WP:Communication is required, but can't get them to discuss the issue or address it. Boleyn (talk) 07:14, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Northernelk888 should certainly respond to your comments on their talk page, however, I'd like to note this is the third or fourth AN/I report you've filed recently about other editors not responding to you. Do you think there's some reason for that (not for the reports, for other editors to not respond to you)? Your comments on Northernelk888's page seems straight-forward and polite, so I assume the same was true of the messages you left for other editors. Any idea what the common thread might be? Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:16, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Beyond My Ken, I message dozens of editors when I see a pattern of creating unreferenced articles as part of New Page Patrolling - most do respond, but these are often editors who struggle with English/do not feel they need to add references/do not read messages at all and so there is no way to communicate with them. \luckily the majority are happy to resolve the issue or ask for and accept help - hopefully Northernelk888 will too as part of this discussion. Boleyn (talk) 16:32, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Boleyn, I don't see anything in the messages you've left him that requires his response to you or requires any action on his part. All you have done is suggest ways to improve a couple articles. There is nothing in the messages indicating why he needs to improve the articles; nothing indicating anything will happen if he doesn't; in short, nothing requiring either an action or a response. John from Idegon (talk) 18:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- John from Idegon, my first message at User talk:Northernelk888#Ways to improve List of heads of state of Croatia by longevity says 'Please add your sources.' My second message at User talk:Northernelk888#List of Members of the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina by time in office also says 'Please add your sources.' Both were more than 2 months ago. My fourth message at User talk:Northernelk888#Sources and communication, a little later, pointed out that WP:Communication is required, with a link to the essay. It also pointed out the importance of WP:V and asked for the editor to reply to the first two messages. The fourth message, two weeks after that, pointed out that by not responding they were risking a block. A whole month after that, I left another message saying that this could lead to an WP:ANI and a block. I then waited a couple of weeks after that to actually initiate an ANI. This editor was editing in between all these messages, but not responding. The links to WP:V and WP:BURDEN indicates why he needs to improve the articles; the two mentions of WP:ANI and a potential block indicate what could happen if he doesn't; asking for a response and asking 'Please add your sources' clearly require an action or a response, especially with links to WP:Communication is required. Boleyn (talk) 18:55, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Boleyn, I don't see anything in the messages you've left him that requires his response to you or requires any action on his part. All you have done is suggest ways to improve a couple articles. There is nothing in the messages indicating why he needs to improve the articles; nothing indicating anything will happen if he doesn't; in short, nothing requiring either an action or a response. John from Idegon (talk) 18:40, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Beyond My Ken, I message dozens of editors when I see a pattern of creating unreferenced articles as part of New Page Patrolling - most do respond, but these are often editors who struggle with English/do not feel they need to add references/do not read messages at all and so there is no way to communicate with them. \luckily the majority are happy to resolve the issue or ask for and accept help - hopefully Northernelk888 will too as part of this discussion. Boleyn (talk) 16:32, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Boleyn, you are confusing content guidelines with behavioral guidelines. NorthernElk has no obligation to do anything to any article simply because you say so. Your recourses if he doesn't are to either tag (which you have done), fix (which you could do), or nominate the article for deletion (which likely wouldn't fly). Just like you no longer have any right to control the content you add once you add it (see WP:OWN), outside of obvious behavioral issues such as libel and copyvio, you also have no obligation to do anything whatsoever to it. NorthernElk does not work for you or answer to you in any way. Your threat, not even a veiled one, that he could be blocked for his inaction is both incorrect and a behavioral issue on your part. Now if he has a pattern of doing this, a much longer one than you've shown, that may be a WP:IDHT or WP:CIR issue, but you have not shown or even claimed that. If he edit warred over content changes, that is a behavioral issue. WP:Communication is required is a very useful essay, written by Dennis Brown, one of our most trusted administrators, but I doubt he ever intended it to be used as you are using it here. It is an essay. It isn't policy. All you did in your communication with him is point out some content issues. He isn't obligated to fix them, nor is he required to talk to you about it. Now if you had reverted some of the unreferenced content in the lists and he put that back and didn't communicate, then "communication is required". Pardon my bluntness, but you are not required to reply simply because I communicate with you. I am not required to answer simply because you communicate with me. Dennis is not required to answer the ping I left him, and neither is BMK (whom I am hoping will inform us if the ANI reports he alluded to earlier in this thread indicate a pattern of behavior on your part, Boleyn). IMO, you need to get over yourself. John from Idegon (talk) 21:55, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Well, insofar as Boleyn has started similar threads recently about other users, it's a pattern, but since I haven't looked into any of those situations, I can't say that it's necessarily a problematic pattern. I do you think your explanation, although (as you say yourself) blunt, is correct, and I would urge Boleyn to take it into account before he posts another similar, thread here.Boleyn, I know from experience that a lack of response from an editor you're trying to communicate with can be very frustrating, but, as John from Idegon says, unless you've warned them about some violation of policy or editing norms, and they don't respond to that and keep doing it, it's really not an issue for this board, or for admin action. I least, that's my estimation of it. I'd also agree with the advice that you might try to provide the needed sourcing occassionally, under the guideline WP:SOFIXIT - but with your editing history,[219] I'm sure you must have done so at times. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:45, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- That's certainly not been Swarm's assessment on similar threads, where they pointed out that communicating is policy, and this editor is refusing to communicate, not per the essay WP:COMMUNICATE but by the policies WP:CONDUCT 'The first step to resolving any dispute is to talk to those who disagree with you. If that fails, there are more structured forms of discussion available.' AND wp:dispute: 'Respond to all disputes or grievances, in the first instance, by approaching the editor or editors concerned and explaining which of their edits you object to and why you object...Talking to other parties is not a mere formality, but an integral part of writing the encyclopedia. Discussing heatedly or poorly – or not at all – will make other editors less sympathetic to your position, and prevent you from effectively using later stages in dispute resolution. Sustained discussion between the parties, even if not immediately successful, demonstrates your good faith and shows you are trying to reach a consensus.' They don't have an obligation to do anything to an article - but they are required to communicate. I wouldn't nominate an article for deletion because it was neglected, and I cannot fix every unreferenced or poor article that comes into NPP - I can however, contact editors, make sure they understand how to source and work with them. Boleyn (talk) 06:46, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Well, insofar as Boleyn has started similar threads recently about other users, it's a pattern, but since I haven't looked into any of those situations, I can't say that it's necessarily a problematic pattern. I do you think your explanation, although (as you say yourself) blunt, is correct, and I would urge Boleyn to take it into account before he posts another similar, thread here.Boleyn, I know from experience that a lack of response from an editor you're trying to communicate with can be very frustrating, but, as John from Idegon says, unless you've warned them about some violation of policy or editing norms, and they don't respond to that and keep doing it, it's really not an issue for this board, or for admin action. I least, that's my estimation of it. I'd also agree with the advice that you might try to provide the needed sourcing occassionally, under the guideline WP:SOFIXIT - but with your editing history,[219] I'm sure you must have done so at times. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:45, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Boleyn, you are confusing content guidelines with behavioral guidelines. NorthernElk has no obligation to do anything to any article simply because you say so. Your recourses if he doesn't are to either tag (which you have done), fix (which you could do), or nominate the article for deletion (which likely wouldn't fly). Just like you no longer have any right to control the content you add once you add it (see WP:OWN), outside of obvious behavioral issues such as libel and copyvio, you also have no obligation to do anything whatsoever to it. NorthernElk does not work for you or answer to you in any way. Your threat, not even a veiled one, that he could be blocked for his inaction is both incorrect and a behavioral issue on your part. Now if he has a pattern of doing this, a much longer one than you've shown, that may be a WP:IDHT or WP:CIR issue, but you have not shown or even claimed that. If he edit warred over content changes, that is a behavioral issue. WP:Communication is required is a very useful essay, written by Dennis Brown, one of our most trusted administrators, but I doubt he ever intended it to be used as you are using it here. It is an essay. It isn't policy. All you did in your communication with him is point out some content issues. He isn't obligated to fix them, nor is he required to talk to you about it. Now if you had reverted some of the unreferenced content in the lists and he put that back and didn't communicate, then "communication is required". Pardon my bluntness, but you are not required to reply simply because I communicate with you. I am not required to answer simply because you communicate with me. Dennis is not required to answer the ping I left him, and neither is BMK (whom I am hoping will inform us if the ANI reports he alluded to earlier in this thread indicate a pattern of behavior on your part, Boleyn). IMO, you need to get over yourself. John from Idegon (talk) 21:55, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Communication is required as a matter of policy, and refusal to respond to input or to cite sources is considered disruptive editing. The entire new page patrol process is pointless if article creators are allowed to just ignore WP:V. Blocked indef, Boleyn. Swarm ♠ 08:21, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
(user:Marplesmustgo) Use of racist slurs offensive language in edit summaries of a conversation about a sporting event
| Blocked for one week by Boing! said Zebedee. (non-admin closure) Erpert blah, blah, blah... 17:46, 12 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
this diff contains a racist slur and inflammatory language in the edit summary
this diff again uses similarly racist language (by the same user using an IP without account log in)
This diff shows the IP log in, revealing him or her self to be the above user
I've informed the user in question as well as the talk page of the IP. Many thanks for your time.
- The following lists of contribs also show a history of ignoring 3RR and neglecting to work with other users on the talk page.
Edaham (talk) 04:56, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- What? Neither "American" nor "Yank" is a racist slur. --Orange Mike Talk 05:23, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, "racist" is the wrong criticism here. There is nothing racist in those comments. Insults, yes. So maybe refactor this incident. HiLo48 (talk) 05:28, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback I didn’t realize that. I’m British and assumed that since I’ve heard people calling Americans yanks in less than congenial terms, that they were using it as a disparaging term. If that’s not the case internationally then my apologies. I still feel that the diffs I’ve made note of here record the use of language which most users would prefer not to hear per wp:civil. Edaham (talk) 05:32, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- "Ethnic slurs" might be more accurate than racist. Regardless, calling someone an "ignorant American cretin" in defending disruptive edits to cricket pages is unacceptable. power~enwiki (π, ν) 05:47, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Preposterous. Crete doesn't allow dual citizenship. EEng 08:54, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Someone from Crete might be a Cretan. A cretin is "a dwarfed and deformed idiot".[220] ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 12:43, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Preposterous. Crete doesn't allow dual citizenship. EEng 08:54, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- I’ve corrected it and hope that the title now more accurately reflects the issue I encountered while reviewing the page in question. Edaham (talk) 06:01, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, the objectionable part is "ignorant ... cretin", no matter what race, ethnicity, nationality or religious belief comes in between. As for "Yank", consider the lyrics to "Over There", widely considered the popular American propaganda song about the US entering World War I: "Because the Yanks are coming, the Yanks are coming...".Now "Yanqui" is sometimes used as a disparaging term in Mexico and Central America, meaning "American", and "Yankee" is also used to mean "Northerners" by people from the South of the US, but, then again, one of New York City's baseball teams is called the "Yankees", which lead to that being a disparaging term to fans of their arch-rivals, the Boston Red Sox -- but, then again Bostonians and New Englanders were also called "Yankees" by those in other sections of the country. (A once popular magazine about New England is titled Yankee) So, all-in-all "Yank" or "Yankee" isn't really very objectionable, because the only way one can tell who's being referred to is by context. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:09, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- well I’m learning something, so the report hasn’t been an entirely negative experience. Thanks for all of the information :) Edaham (talk) 06:14, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Its good to know that some Wikipedia editors are so incredibly smart, sophisticated and "tuned in" they can determine if and to what extent an anti-American slur is "objectionable". And even know why it is or isn't objectionable. To Americans without being Americans themselves, no less. Is it considered "original research" and acting without consensus when something like that is just arbitrarily decided? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.234.100.169 (talk) 08:29, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- well I’m learning something, so the report hasn’t been an entirely negative experience. Thanks for all of the information :) Edaham (talk) 06:14, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, the objectionable part is "ignorant ... cretin", no matter what race, ethnicity, nationality or religious belief comes in between. As for "Yank", consider the lyrics to "Over There", widely considered the popular American propaganda song about the US entering World War I: "Because the Yanks are coming, the Yanks are coming...".Now "Yanqui" is sometimes used as a disparaging term in Mexico and Central America, meaning "American", and "Yankee" is also used to mean "Northerners" by people from the South of the US, but, then again, one of New York City's baseball teams is called the "Yankees", which lead to that being a disparaging term to fans of their arch-rivals, the Boston Red Sox -- but, then again Bostonians and New Englanders were also called "Yankees" by those in other sections of the country. (A once popular magazine about New England is titled Yankee) So, all-in-all "Yank" or "Yankee" isn't really very objectionable, because the only way one can tell who's being referred to is by context. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:09, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- "Ethnic slurs" might be more accurate than racist. Regardless, calling someone an "ignorant American cretin" in defending disruptive edits to cricket pages is unacceptable. power~enwiki (π, ν) 05:47, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback I didn’t realize that. I’m British and assumed that since I’ve heard people calling Americans yanks in less than congenial terms, that they were using it as a disparaging term. If that’s not the case internationally then my apologies. I still feel that the diffs I’ve made note of here record the use of language which most users would prefer not to hear per wp:civil. Edaham (talk) 05:32, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, "racist" is the wrong criticism here. There is nothing racist in those comments. Insults, yes. So maybe refactor this incident. HiLo48 (talk) 05:28, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment - While I agree that Yank is not necessarily a slur, this editor has used definitely derogatory terms several times in the last few days, such as in this edit, or the clearly derogatory term used in this edit, or this, or this one. There were others as well, but I have neither the time nor inclination to find them all. Onel5969 TT me 11:11, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm surprised User:Marplesmustgo was not already blocked. They are now. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:20, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Just curious as to who the IP 68 thinks is not an American. Can't be me, I've got apple pie coming out of my ears. (Makes it hard to hear, though.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- But isn't apple pie a German invention, Mr. Ken? Or should I say HERR KEN?!? --Calton Talk 03:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ach, Mein Gott im Himmel! Die Verdammten Yankees haben mich entdeckt!! Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
How to deal with constant sock/IP allegations.
| Editors, whoever they are, shouldn't allege sock puppetry unless it's at WP:SPI. CUs will not be done to prove that someone is "innocent". This thread is mostly about bickering and repetition and is not at all constructive or illuminating.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:07, 12 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Firstly, I would like to make clear that I'm not looking for any sanctions against the user who is making these allegations, that solves nothing. What I would like is a solution that allows me to demonstrate that these allegations are false.
There has been an issue with an IP editor and myself sharing an opinion and constant comments from Hijiri 88 that the IP and myself are one and the same person.
If there was one comment, I wouldn't care at all - but these allegations don't stop. comments such as "obvious sock-IP" [221] and "yes, apparently logging out in order to create an illusion of other people sharing one's views" [222] "And he's apparently logging out to create the illusion of not being the only editor who shares his POV"[223] are becoming a little tedious when they just continue in every single discussion between myself and Hijiri 88.
I realize that due to check user rules, we can't compare IPs with users - so I can rule that out. I did consider logging out and making a "Hi, I'm Spacecowboy!" post, to display my IP - as it could then be compared with the IP editor. After looking at the geolocation of the IP, I can see that we aren't in the same country, so it would be an easy way to confirm things. But, I don't want to put my IP all over Wikipedia for privacy/professional reasons. Are there any other technical solutions that I could use to confirm my IP to Check User, without revealing it to all of Wikipedia? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:07, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Hijiri: You know not to do that, even with someone like Spacecowboy420. Johnuniq (talk) 11:16, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Johnuniq: To be clear, I didn't. Curly Turkey (talk·contribs) did, but did so in the wrong forum; Spacecowboy420 made a disruptive "please elaborate on that so I can say you are making repeated off-topic accusations against me on an article talk page" remark and I told him to knock it off and pointed out that CT had a point. Then, more than a week later, NeilN (talk·contribs) brought it up in a comment that amounted to "you can't blank uncivil, off-topic remarks from one editor if you don't blank other remarks from other editors that I say are equivalent" and I explained how the two weren't similar because Curly Turkey did have a fairly good basis for accusing the IP of being 420 (even if I don't think he was right to bring it up on an article talk page) and there is no requisite obligation to remove all remarks that could be taken as personal attacks on any given talk page. I was 1000% clear that I did not mean to raise any kind of accusation on ANI about it, and even collapsed my comment with a "please close this thread; we're done here" title.[224]Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Hijiri88: You did more than blank the comments. You edit warred to keep them removed, reported them here, and asked for admin help to win a dispute. You know that edits from all sides in a dispute are going to be looked at here. --NeilNtalk to me 11:39, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @NeilN: No, I removed an edit that I interpreted as a personal attack (and other editors had agreed with me in a similar case in the past), and the editor who made it edit-warred to keep it in, with dismissive edit summaries that didn't address the problem.
You know that edits from all sides in a dispute are going to be looked at here.
I honestly don't know what that has to do with anything -- does that mean that I have an obligation to remove comments that I don't see as equivalent? Do you mean that if I had blanked CT's comments as well before coming to ANI and he had accepted their blanking as being inappropriate, you would have blocked the IP? Anyway, that has absolutely nothing to do with the present discussion. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:48, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @NeilN: No, I removed an edit that I interpreted as a personal attack (and other editors had agreed with me in a similar case in the past), and the editor who made it edit-warred to keep it in, with dismissive edit summaries that didn't address the problem.
- @Hijiri88: You did more than blank the comments. You edit warred to keep them removed, reported them here, and asked for admin help to win a dispute. You know that edits from all sides in a dispute are going to be looked at here. --NeilNtalk to me 11:39, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Johnuniq: To be clear, I didn't. Curly Turkey (talk·contribs) did, but did so in the wrong forum; Spacecowboy420 made a disruptive "please elaborate on that so I can say you are making repeated off-topic accusations against me on an article talk page" remark and I told him to knock it off and pointed out that CT had a point. Then, more than a week later, NeilN (talk·contribs) brought it up in a comment that amounted to "you can't blank uncivil, off-topic remarks from one editor if you don't blank other remarks from other editors that I say are equivalent" and I explained how the two weren't similar because Curly Turkey did have a fairly good basis for accusing the IP of being 420 (even if I don't think he was right to bring it up on an article talk page) and there is no requisite obligation to remove all remarks that could be taken as personal attacks on any given talk page. I was 1000% clear that I did not mean to raise any kind of accusation on ANI about it, and even collapsed my comment with a "please close this thread; we're done here" title.[224]Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) "constant"? The above user waited well over a week after the "accusation" by me to open this thread -- I only responded in another ANI thread above to someone else, unhelpfully bringing it up when it wasn't even relevant.
these allegations don't stop
in this light is nonsense. - If the first and last paragraphs of the above are taken at face value, this thread is in the wrong place, and notifying me that I am "being discussed" on the "block request" noticeboard was not helpful. @Spacecowboy420: If you want a CU to state that you are not the Filipino IPs multiple users have accused you of being over the last five months, then you should ask one; don't come to ANI and post on my talk page about how I am being discussed here.
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Johnuniq thank you for removing those refs.
- Hijiri 88, I'm sorry if you didn't like the notification that I placed on your talk page, I didn't actually desire any interaction with you on this discussion, I assumed that the notification was required, also I think I made it very clear that I wasn't requesting that you be blocked in my statement "Firstly, I would like to make clear that I'm not looking for any sanctions against the user who is making these allegations, that solves nothing."
- I'm looking for solutions that might make our interactions a little easier, rather than another ANI mud slinging session.
- "The above user waited well over a week after the "accusation" by me to open this thread" - no, I'm responding to the comments that you made today. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:35, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Here's how you can avoid interacting with me: don't name me, don't make this thread about me, don't refer to my defending my own "one-sided" blanking of off-topic remarks on an article talk page as "accusations" as though I approved 100% of what CT had done in bringing it up on an article talk page, and make it 100% clear that you are only asking if there is any way to demonstrate that the IP you normally edit from geolocates to somewhere other than the Philippines.
- You could do this by being a bit more clear about what you actually want: you say above that you
don't want to put [your] IP all over Wikipedia for privacy/professional reasons
, but you leave it hanging in the air whether you want to state where your IP actually geolocates to and would mind a CU verifying that in public. no, I'm responding to the comments that you made today
Yes, and I only made those comments because it was implied that I should explain how I felt "You appear to be logging out in order to create an illusion of consensus" is different from "You have a block log so you don't have a leg to stand on". The former comment was brought up completely out of the blue and I really don't see how they are remotely equivalent, but when other users say they are, you can't tell me that I am not allowed explain how they are not, on the appropriate forum.- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:41, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) For the record, my accusation rested on Spacecowboy and the IP making the same bad-faith proposal in separate sections that the article needed a "blackface controversy" subsection because otherwise the blackface stuff would appear under the "2015: Collaboration with KISS" subsection. If they're not the same user, they nonetheless are both editing in bad faith to achieve the same ends, and using the same bad-faith arguments—such as the imaginary mountain of sources that supposedly make the incident so prominent that it needs its own subsection (repeatedly debunked). Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 11:48, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hijiri 88 no, this thread isn't about you. I thought it was necessary to show the allegations that make me think I need to prove that I'm not using a sock IP and if I show those allegations, then of course I have to notify you. There isn't any need for you to act offended or defensive about this discussion. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:52, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Spacecowboy420: If it is not about me, then don't name me. Just say "Four or five users have accused me over the last several months of being these two Filipino IPs; my actual IP geolocates to an entirely different country; is there any way I can prove this without publishing my actual IP?" Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:59, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hijiri 88 no, this thread isn't about you. I thought it was necessary to show the allegations that make me think I need to prove that I'm not using a sock IP and if I show those allegations, then of course I have to notify you. There isn't any need for you to act offended or defensive about this discussion. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:52, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I'm not going to participate in some tit for tat argument with you. I think I made myself clear in my initial comment and don't consider all the finger pointing to be constructive. This is merely a request for information, but thanks for your concern. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 12:09, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- So, you are just trying to harass me by opening nonsense "I don't want you to block this user" threads about me on the forum to request blocks and are not going to attempt to justify artificially making it seem to be about me when I was the last editor to accuse you of being that IP? The place for technical questions is WP:VPT, or maybe WP:VPM; ANI is for requesting blocks against editors for disruptive conduct.
- I've seen "This is totally not about Hijiri88" threads opened on ANI before, and you don't want to know how they worked out.
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- BTW, I suspect this spurious ANI thread, the refusal to withdraw or even reword it, the obvious continued trolling on the talk page, and this bizarre edit summary (which Urban Dictionary tells me means
a word to describe and let out the awesome feeling inside, when one is king of the world
) support this thread ending in a BOOMERANG. Thoughts? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:40, 12 April 2018 (UTC)- My thoughts are that the most constructive comment I can make in response to your statement above is to copy and paste my previous statement: "Sorry, but I'm not going to participate in some tit for tat argument with you." I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer than I'm not here to argue with you. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:01, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've asked you three times now to be less confrontational and live up to your stated claim that this thread is not supposed to be about me. I was one of four or five users over the past several months to make comments that hinted at a (sincere held) belief that those IPs were you, and I did so in less explicit fashion than all the others, and yet you chose to hone in on me in this thread. When I suggested you make some changes to your opening statement in light of your claimed intention that this thread not be about me, you aggressively refused to do so, and now are engaged in open trolling on the article talk page and your own talk page to boot. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:19, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- "Firstly, I would like to make clear that I'm not looking for any sanctions against the user who is making these allegations, that solves nothing."
- "Hijiri 88 no, this thread isn't about you."
- "Sorry, but I'm not going to participate in some tit for tat argument with you."
- "I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer than I'm not here to argue with you"
- Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:39, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- The first is a clearly false accusation against me: I am not "the user who is making these allegations" (note the wording of "the user" in the singular); I merely didn't disagree with several other users who had made such allegations.
- The second is untrue, as demonstrated by the false accusation included in the first, and by the fact that you opened this discussion on a noticeboard for discussing user conduct problems and requesting blocks.
- No one is asking you to participate in a tit-for-tat argument. What is being requested is that you stop making false accusations in an ANI thread.
- If you didn't want to argue with me, why did you open an ANI thread about me?
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:53, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- BTW: The fact that the IP shares your idiosyncratic outdenting style (see for example here and here) makes the idea that the IP was not you all the more untenable. I wouldn't be bringing this up if you weren't insisting on keeping this ANI thread about me open. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:05, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've asked you three times now to be less confrontational and live up to your stated claim that this thread is not supposed to be about me. I was one of four or five users over the past several months to make comments that hinted at a (sincere held) belief that those IPs were you, and I did so in less explicit fashion than all the others, and yet you chose to hone in on me in this thread. When I suggested you make some changes to your opening statement in light of your claimed intention that this thread not be about me, you aggressively refused to do so, and now are engaged in open trolling on the article talk page and your own talk page to boot. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:19, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- My thoughts are that the most constructive comment I can make in response to your statement above is to copy and paste my previous statement: "Sorry, but I'm not going to participate in some tit for tat argument with you." I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer than I'm not here to argue with you. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:01, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
Elchezinazo's edits are problematic
| Blocked indef. Swarm ♠ 01:42, 14 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
After a lot of communication, it's time for a block for Elchezinazo (talk · contribs) who I would argue is WP:NOTHERE. The editor has a few favourite bands. At least two of them happen to be on my watchlist. The editor continues to
- add incorrect content
- create articles associated with the subject, mostly singles, that do not meet notability criteria
- creates controversial articles, such as a song by a precursor to the band Three Days Grace, and attribute it to the latter band. I assume this is in an attempt to make it appear more notable.
- "updates" navigation templates to include non-articles and redlinks after having explained the problem to the editor
- does all of this without explanation (despite having been asked to do so) and without discussion
This is why I suspect NOTHERE. I don't know if the communication is because the editor is not a native speaker or writer of English, which is possible. If the user were creating articles for notable subjects that needed to be cleaned-up, I would grit my teeth and bear it. The problem is the lack of notability of the content the editor is creating.
Feel free to check the editor's recent history to see some of the problems. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:41, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've warned the editor to join the discussion here or risk being blocked. --NeilN talk to me 22:07, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- I hate to say it but Wave of Popular Feeling DOES redirect to Three Days Grace, so it might need at least a mention. That or redlink the redirect. --Tarage (talk) 22:43, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- It does, but that's due to a soft redirect without discussion. I'd be happy to revert that redirect and nominate for deletion. I suspect we'll get the same response as at the song article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:51, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- And another: My Beautiful Robe. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:04, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- And another: Hey You, I Love Your Soul (song). I'm expecting one at Locked in a Cage in short order. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:09, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- I was wrong. More Faithful was next, then Locked in a Cage. Any chance we can at least revoke "create articles"? Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:16, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- And another: Hey You, I Love Your Soul (song). I'm expecting one at Locked in a Cage in short order. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:09, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
User:QPhysics137 and WP:CIVIL
| (non-admin closure) That escalated quickly. QPhysics137 indeffed, and TPA revoked. power~enwiki (π, ν) 06:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:QPhysics137 has been pretty uncivil the past couple of days.
They started by removing a well-sourced claim that somebody is a white supremacist [225]. Then immediately after being reverted they started making insults ("[...] no matter how bad your English skills are") [226]. Then they took it to user talk pages to start saying things like "What special kind of doofus came up with that rule?" [227]. And most recently they've said "Why don't you tell that to the morons who are calling me a liar" [228] and "LOL Wow...please tell me you're not really THAT stupid. [...] Wow...I have to wonder if that much stupidity hurts you or if you just don't have enough neurons to register pain." [229].
I understand they feel strongly about this issue, but they seem unable to stop themselves from insulting anybody who disagrees with them. --ChiveFungi (talk) 01:27, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Bbb23: Thank you for your help. I'm not sure the block had the intended effect though: [230]. --ChiveFungi (talk) 02:00, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Indeffed. From four dubious article edits three and a half years ago to attacking everyone in sight now. --NeilNtalk to me 02:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Everyone in sight includes you, Neil. I've now also revoked their talk page access. De728631 (talk) 02:20, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Gee, all I did was go have a bite to eat ... Actually, they also attacked Neil before my initial block.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:25, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ah Neil..." I'm sorry if you're not capable of following along. Let me try to use smaller words for you"... Lovely. Drmies (talk) 02:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- You have to wonder why this particular BLP prompted such a dramatic return after three and a half years. --NeilNtalk to me 03:01, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Obviously, they're overtired from being a "Physicist Mathematician Engineer" (three, three,three careers in one!) not to mention a "History buff". Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:09, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- You have to wonder why this particular BLP prompted such a dramatic return after three and a half years. --NeilNtalk to me 03:01, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ah Neil..." I'm sorry if you're not capable of following along. Let me try to use smaller words for you"... Lovely. Drmies (talk) 02:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Gee, all I did was go have a bite to eat ... Actually, they also attacked Neil before my initial block.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:25, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Everyone in sight includes you, Neil. I've now also revoked their talk page access. De728631 (talk) 02:20, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Indeffed. From four dubious article edits three and a half years ago to attacking everyone in sight now. --NeilNtalk to me 02:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Bbb23: Thank you for your help. I'm not sure the block had the intended effect though: [230]. --ChiveFungi (talk) 02:00, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Spacemountainmike
| Indeffed by Courcelles. (non-admin closure) Erpert blah, blah, blah... 20:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Spacemountainmike (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
After leaving for a while after being advised not to add incorrect information about area codes to the lead sections of articles such as Idaho, this user has returned to add information about "Hitlery Clinton" [231] to the article about Doritos, with what appears to be a fake image they created. They appear to not be here to build an encyclopedia. power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:09, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Okay, that's a new joke... not. Indeffed for NOTHERE and could have just called it a vandalism block. Also deleted the image involved as G3. Courcelles (talk) 03:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
pls. block Thai editor User:Gtv39
| Checkuser blocked by The Face SPI, Bbb23 --NeilN talk to me 13:29, 13 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
pls. check and block Thai editor Gtv39 (talk · contribs) he is the newest and sockpuppy account of Golf-ben10 (talk · contribs), Btsmrt12 (talk · contribs) and Vbts12 (talk · contribs) that got blocked by admin, Because he like to spam the colors and articles on The Face T.V. show pages every season of all countries, such as The Face Thailand, The Face Men Thailand, The Face Vietnam, US and UK every seasons. he also edit on Produce 101 Tv serie pages so much with no sources or reference for the articles.
and he just registered new account for spam on wikipedia reality pages again on 10th April. pls, check and block him to edit on Wikipedia, his profile is the same person with user:Vbts12, user:Btsmrt12 and user:Golf-ben10. thank youItipisox (talk) 03:29, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- You've only been here a couple of weeks yourself. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 03:36, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- It shows; I had to fix their links to user accounts. Now I can actually look at the accounts involved. power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:38, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
The edits don't look disruptive to me, but the circumstantial evidence for sock-puppetry seems strong enough that a CheckUser might want to look. power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:42, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- because he is back to spam on the same reality tv. pages with newest account, he not stop to spam on article after blocked by admin 3 times. it's the same person and personalityItipisox (talk) 03:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Realabdulr
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Asphalt_9:_Legends&diff=prev&oldid=835919192
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Need_for_Speed:_Most_Wanted_(2012_video_game)&diff=prev&oldid=835927933
Seems like a spam-only account. Warned by The1337gamer on User talk:Realabdulr, the text is suggesting The1337gamer is an administrator but why does that not show on Special:CentralAuth/The1337gamer? Alexis Jazz (talk) 18:12, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- NO, that's a template User:Alexis_Jazz. User:The1337gamer is not pretending to be an admin. Note that he's saying you may be blocked not I will block you. Its a standard template. К Ф Ƽ Ħ 20:31, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ok, I guess its a substitution template in that case. To me, the wording is confusing but that's no fault of The1337gamer in that case. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:16, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- NO, that's a template User:Alexis_Jazz. User:The1337gamer is not pretending to be an admin. Note that he's saying you may be blocked not I will block you. Its a standard template. К Ф Ƽ Ħ 20:31, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Please..
| (non-admin closure) I do not believe that any admin is going to take action on this. Disagree? Please feel free to re-open. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:33, 14 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Excuse me, could you unblock my main account, Caesey, then block it for a week, (for creating this account) then block this account indef? It was a block of my account as a sock puppet, but checkuser turned up unrelated, and I am not a sock account of Iniced. I really, really want to edit... Sincerely, Cali 06:08, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Even if Cæsey (talk · contribs) isn't a sock of Iniced, it seems certain he's a sock of somebody. There's no chance that a new user would be obsessed with tagging ancient sock-puppets of Random-5000 or AtlanticDeep; of course an SPI couldn't tell if he's either of those users. power~enwiki (π, ν) 06:19, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Heepman1997
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Heepman1997 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Editor continues persistent 3-year pattern (see talk page) of adding unsourced content and/or WP:OR to articles. This includes BLPs such as Ivan Doroschuk (and his bands and their albums). A recent talk page warning with {{uw-unsourced4}} was ignored. Temporary unsourced content block per {{uw-ucblock}} is suggested. Lwarrenwiki (talk) 12:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- The user in mention has only responded on his talk page once. [232]. —JJBers 18:08, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've blocked for one week, and I've warned the user that the next block will be indefinite. Swarm ♠ 02:11, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
Article about Hookah and sources
| I think I can safely say that this "discussion" hasn't been a very good one. I probably should have closed it earlier. Better late than never.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:17, 14 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi, i received a notification from a blocked user (Hazratleri) a few days ago about the hookah article. This user wanted to remove the Indian origin of that pipe and asked me for an insight. I replied that i would have a look. I looked at the contributions of that user and it appeared that he was engaged in an edit-warring but i noticed that some of his comments on other users talk pages were deleted by user Rzvas and i warned him for that : [233]. Please note that i am not a sock of Hazratleri, if needed, i would welcome a checkuser to confirm this. When i looked the Hookah article, it appeared that the Indian claim is perfectly legit but some sources used in the article are not, according to me reliables for this claim (and some sources are not reliables for the Persian claim either). First, i removed one source from the article because it was cited twice : [234]. As to the quality of the sources, i discussed on the talk page : [235]. I asked to other contributors why they wanted to keep some unreliables sources and if this was to prove a point : [236] and then user Anupam accused me of WP:CIVIL and WP:BATTLEGROUND but this was interrupted by this edit, which deleted my answer and asked me to take this to ANI : [237]. In the aftermath, another user posted a DS alert on my talk page, while i was not alerted before : [238]. I came here to understand what’s going on, why many contributors claim that all the sources of the article are reliables while they’re probably not, why my demand of help for edit conflict has been removed on the talk page of the Hookah article and why Anupam accused me of WP:CIVIL and WP:BATTLEGROUND ([239]) and, especially, why am i received a DS alert from Capitals00 without having been alerted before and while i was discussing on a talk page. Thanks a lot for clarifying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.173.27.223 (talk) 15:28, 13 April 2018 (UTC) The comment above was mine, i forgot to log in.—>Farawahar (talk) 15:30, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- You are not a sock of Hazratleri. You are still disruptive because you are not only ignoring his faults but you are advocating his disruption and engaging in WP:BATTLE with editors who tackled his disruption. Your canvassing[240] is a good evidence of that. You are clearly going to get indeffed just like Hazratleri has been. Raymond3023 (talk) 15:38, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- You probably missed a point in what i said above :THE INDIAN ORIGIN IS PERFECTLY LEGIT BUT SOME SOURCES ARE SEEMINGLY UNRELIABLES. Hazratleri is a sock and i don’t care about him.
- You say that i engaged in WP:BATTLE and that i am disruptive ? Where ? Everything i said is in print and checkable. You should refrain from baseless accusations as this is personal attacks. Again, calm down and stay cool.—>Farawahar (talk) 15:45, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- You can engage in battle and still be right.Slatersteven (talk) 15:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Raymond3023: So, where are your evidences about my disruptive editing and battle ? You came here fastly to accuse, but when i ask you evidences, you can not provide any—>Farawahar (talk) 15:58, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Farawahar: You care so much about Hazratleri that you are fighting other editors who removed his clear violation of canvassing policy.[241] You are continuing his nonsense around, which includes WP:IDHT and WP:CANVASSING.[242] Telling me to "stay cool" while engaging in WP:BATTLE shows you have serious competence issues (WP:CIR). Raymond3023 (talk) 16:02, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Again, stop accusing and provide evidences . Where are my disruptive edits ? Where have i battled ? As to your comments about my competences, this is again a personal attack. AND as to your evidence number 99, as i said on his talk page, i had not noticed that the owner of the talk page already complained about this comment removal. I was not canvassing in the talk page of hookah’s article, i just asked for the opinions of more experienced users than me, and among them Oshwah, who is an admin. I would really welcome an admin’s opinion about all that.—>Farawahar (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Evidence has been already posted. Yes that is canvassing. You got outnumbered by those who tackled your non-policy based objections and you started canvassing those users who you think might be biased towards you. Here you have reported everyone because you are not getting POV of Hazratleri pushed. Being an "admin" doesn't means you get automatic license of being more acceptable as an editor. Justifying your canvassing by claiming that you canvassed an editor only because he is an admin is nonsense. Raymond3023 (talk) 16:58, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- User:Farawahar, you were giving a warning to remember WP:CIVIL and WP:BATTLEGROUND after you capriciously accused "you guys" of wanting to retain sources only "to prove a point", linking to WP:RGW, thus demonstrating an "us versus them" mentality. In reality, I have never interacted with most of the users commenting on the talk page and am open to critiquing their positions as much as yours, in light of evidence. When I offered you valid reasons why I felt certain sources should not be removed, you responded with an unfounded accusation. Do you now see why such conduct merits a warning? Despite your misbehaviour, I still tried to work with you and offered a thorough response to your query about sources, even searching your own link to show you where the content you requested was. Rather than assuming good faith, you responding by pinging certain editors who you feel might share your POV. This is considered a violation of WP:CANVASS and is not appropriate to do. I sincerely hope that you are able to learn from this issue and proceed as a constructive editor from here on out. If you're willing to offer an apology or an admission that your choice of words were not prudent, I'll take that into consideration before offering my insight on the proposed block below. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 17:46, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Evidence has been already posted. Yes that is canvassing. You got outnumbered by those who tackled your non-policy based objections and you started canvassing those users who you think might be biased towards you. Here you have reported everyone because you are not getting POV of Hazratleri pushed. Being an "admin" doesn't means you get automatic license of being more acceptable as an editor. Justifying your canvassing by claiming that you canvassed an editor only because he is an admin is nonsense. Raymond3023 (talk) 16:58, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Again, stop accusing and provide evidences . Where are my disruptive edits ? Where have i battled ? As to your comments about my competences, this is again a personal attack. AND as to your evidence number 99, as i said on his talk page, i had not noticed that the owner of the talk page already complained about this comment removal. I was not canvassing in the talk page of hookah’s article, i just asked for the opinions of more experienced users than me, and among them Oshwah, who is an admin. I would really welcome an admin’s opinion about all that.—>Farawahar (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Farawahar: You care so much about Hazratleri that you are fighting other editors who removed his clear violation of canvassing policy.[241] You are continuing his nonsense around, which includes WP:IDHT and WP:CANVASSING.[242] Telling me to "stay cool" while engaging in WP:BATTLE shows you have serious competence issues (WP:CIR). Raymond3023 (talk) 16:02, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Block proposal
- Support indef block per WP:CIR. Thinks everyone is plotting against him and whoever opposes him has ulterior motives. Capitals00 (talk) 16:27, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- What support of an indef block ? He wanted to remove all Indian claim from the article while i’am only dealing with the quality of the sources and do not want to remove any claim. Where have i said that everyone is plotting against me ? i just said that i was discussing calmly and suddenly numerous editors intervened against me, do not manipulate my statements. And you are the one who gave me a DS alert while i was not alerted and you come here to speak about Wikipedia’s rules ?—>Farawahar (talk) 16:38, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Indeed! That's why I am in favor of indef block, due to your lack of competence. You have been making loud sound on multiple talk pages for days but now you really need enough time to think where you were wrong. Capitals00 (talk) 16:45, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- BTW, i checked your talk page and this is what user Kautilya told you about irrelevant DS alerts given by you 23 april 2017 : [243], don’t remember ?
- Please, help me and tell me where i was wrong. I rather think that you Need time to provide evidences of my « mistakes »—>Farawahar (talk) 16:53, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- WP:IDHT. Capitals00 (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Indeed! That's why I am in favor of indef block, due to your lack of competence. You have been making loud sound on multiple talk pages for days but now you really need enough time to think where you were wrong. Capitals00 (talk) 16:45, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- What support of an indef block ? He wanted to remove all Indian claim from the article while i’am only dealing with the quality of the sources and do not want to remove any claim. Where have i said that everyone is plotting against me ? i just said that i was discussing calmly and suddenly numerous editors intervened against me, do not manipulate my statements. And you are the one who gave me a DS alert while i was not alerted and you come here to speak about Wikipedia’s rules ?—>Farawahar (talk) 16:38, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Support indef per above. His frequent demands for "evidence" are becoming too disruptive and shows he believes what he thinks is best. Raymond3023 (talk) 16:58, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- So discussing about the quality of sources is disruptive ? You attack me blatantly because some so called battle and disruptive edits, i ask you to provide evidences of my disruptive edits and battle and you’re completly unable to provide any, and that makes that i’m disruptive ? and you say that i believe what i think is best ??? You’re joking right ? Calm down and provide evidences of what you say please.—>Farawahar (talk) 17:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Vehemently oppose As best I can tell, Farawahar created their account in September of last year. Frankly, what ever happened to "Don't bite the noobies"? They are a new user, and from what I have seen, only seem disruptive because of some misunderstandings of Wikipedia policy. A much more measured solution would likely involve advice and/or mentoring, rather than an immediate ban for an author who does not seem to have previously been sanctioned, and who's behavioral issues could stem from simple inexperience. Icarosaurvus (talk) 17:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Icarausaurvus, thanks for your comments but could you please tell me where i misunderstood Wikipedia’s rules ? And how am i disruptive ?—>Farawahar (talk) 17:33, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Icarosaurvus: Mentoring proposal is for those who have some grasp of English and they are eager to learn. We have no room to tolerate this user's incompetence and allow him to harass established editors only because he is over 7 months old and has 626 edits. He is not a new user, but aware of all policies and he has been intentionally violating each of them since he believes Wikipedia is a WP:BATTLEGROUND, he is proxying for an indeffed sock. You are indirectly telling us to check all his edits because he hasn't been sanctioned despite he has been overall disruptive since I have inter-acted him. He is not here to listen anyone but tell what he thinks is best. He can't even read or understand the diffs that have been provided to him. Evidence is the boring question that he just asked you above which has been already answered enough times. How can you expect him to understand anything and reform? That's a wishful thinking. Raymond3023 (talk) 17:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Again baseless attacks, so i don’t listen to established users according to you ? Just an example for you information :[244]. Yeah, you don’t find it boring to accuse without any evidence but you are bored to check my edits ... I perfectly saw your diffs which contain no evidence to support your accusations. Please stay cool and refrain from baseless accusations, instead, why don’t you just provide evidences ? It should be easy if all the things you say about me were true ...—>Farawahar (talk) 18:04, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment(edit conflict) It is not really the place for editors involved in vehement dispute to be throwing around suggestions for indef blocks of their opponents. It is inadvisable to show one has a low threshold to impose an indef block lest one be subject to one's own judgement. I also strongly suggest that the editors in dispute with each other not argue back and forth with each other. The back and forth between you serves no good purpose and creates a barrier of crap uninvolved editors must read before helping resolve the situation. Accusations without evidence almost always places the accuser in worse light than the accused. @Farawahar: I believe you have an incorrect idea of what constitutes a reliable source. Simply claiming that someone is not a historian, as you did in your numbered analysis of sources on the talk page, is not sufficient. You must examine why the facts they report or the opinions they have are not valid for what they are being cited for. The baseline for a reliable source is a published work, from a reputable publisher with a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. A brief look at the sources you claim to be unreliable shows me that there is at least a reputable presumption they are reliable ie you must show why they are unreliable. That requires more than saying the authors are not historians. There is no requirement that one be a credentialed historian to be competent to opine on this material especially when dealing with 19th century writers. If you think the works are not reliable you need to persuade not assert. Jbh Talk 18:20, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
@Anupam: I’m sorry but i do not agree with you. I don’t deserve a warning for discussing fairly on a talk page. And i was not canvassing, i asked for the opinions of more experienced users, and among them a veteran admin (Oshwah), are you charging this admin of bias ? And about your sentence « you guys » and « prove a point » did you see the question mark ? As to what happened « mentally », i don’t know if you are serious or joking ...—>Farawahar (talk) 18:27, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Jbhunley: Farawahar is a case of WP:NOTHERE and WP:CIR. He is desperately continuing disruption of an indeffed sock master that can be construed as proxying and believes that he is making no mistakes. You should read his messages, observe his frequent failure to understand relevant policies such as WP:CANVASS, WP:RS, WP:BATTLE, WP:CIVIL, and it is nothing but further indication of his lack of competence. He needs to be indeffed and he will get enough time to think where he is wrong. Capitals00 (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)@Capitals00: there are definitely some problems but looking at their history, including some articles where I have run across them, it is clearly evident that your NOTHERE claim is not supported or supportable. Just looking at your talk page I am extremely disinclined to accept your judgment of whether an editor to much of a disruption to be allowed to edit. There is a parable about a mote and a beam you may wish to locate and reflect on before you start calling too loudly for indefs. Best case is you all take a day or so break and present your positions. I have already mentioned to Farawahar that they seem to have an incorrect notion of what makes a source reliable or not. Hopefully he will present some solid reasons, beyond the author not being a historian, why and for what they feel those sources are incorrect. Also, hopefully the others at that talk page will respond politely and calmly to their concerns. Both sides should support their positions with Wikipedia policies and guidelines not with inventive and accusations. Jbh Talk 18:46, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Whoever engages solely in disruptive POV pushing and annoying other editors[245][246] is a clear case of WP:NOTHERE. What do you think, why he opened this firovolous complaint? Since he don't want to listen anyone there is no hope he will ever improve, just read his response to your above message. Capitals00 (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Chasing people from the project for being mildly annoying is not generally the policy of Wikipedia. Were we to do so, I fear we'd quickly find ourselves out of editors. As for the POV accusations, the user does seem to have an interpretation of what constitutes a reliable source that is rather different from my own, but that is hardly an appropriate justification for an indef. Icarosaurvus (talk) 19:21, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- FWIW, he has more edits than you and should know better but given his WP:CIR issues he just can't. D4iNa4 (talk) 19:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- My edit count is deceptively low, as I've made more than a few edits as an IP; gnoming isn't exactly the kind of thing one needs to bother logging in for. This said, I do not see how my edit count actually matters in this particular assessment. As for the CIR essay which has been cited many a time here, I recommend looking at the section where it states that "It does not mean we should ignore people and not try to help improve their competence." While there may be issues with the user's edits, I have yet to see a concentrated effort at mentoring or helping the user improve; a number of edits does not necessarily indicate a period of time spent studying rules and policies. Mentoring exists for exactly this kind of case, and can indeed help a user improve. Icarosaurvus (talk) 20:25, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- FWIW, he has more edits than you and should know better but given his WP:CIR issues he just can't. D4iNa4 (talk) 19:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Chasing people from the project for being mildly annoying is not generally the policy of Wikipedia. Were we to do so, I fear we'd quickly find ourselves out of editors. As for the POV accusations, the user does seem to have an interpretation of what constitutes a reliable source that is rather different from my own, but that is hardly an appropriate justification for an indef. Icarosaurvus (talk) 19:21, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Whoever engages solely in disruptive POV pushing and annoying other editors[245][246] is a clear case of WP:NOTHERE. What do you think, why he opened this firovolous complaint? Since he don't want to listen anyone there is no hope he will ever improve, just read his response to your above message. Capitals00 (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)@Capitals00: there are definitely some problems but looking at their history, including some articles where I have run across them, it is clearly evident that your NOTHERE claim is not supported or supportable. Just looking at your talk page I am extremely disinclined to accept your judgment of whether an editor to much of a disruption to be allowed to edit. There is a parable about a mote and a beam you may wish to locate and reflect on before you start calling too loudly for indefs. Best case is you all take a day or so break and present your positions. I have already mentioned to Farawahar that they seem to have an incorrect notion of what makes a source reliable or not. Hopefully he will present some solid reasons, beyond the author not being a historian, why and for what they feel those sources are incorrect. Also, hopefully the others at that talk page will respond politely and calmly to their concerns. Both sides should support their positions with Wikipedia policies and guidelines not with inventive and accusations. Jbh Talk 18:46, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Jbhunley: Farawahar is a case of WP:NOTHERE and WP:CIR. He is desperately continuing disruption of an indeffed sock master that can be construed as proxying and believes that he is making no mistakes. You should read his messages, observe his frequent failure to understand relevant policies such as WP:CANVASS, WP:RS, WP:BATTLE, WP:CIVIL, and it is nothing but further indication of his lack of competence. He needs to be indeffed and he will get enough time to think where he is wrong. Capitals00 (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
@Capitals00: Here we go, more and more accusations without any proof, this is just unbelievable that you keep going on with such an aggressive behavior without providing any legit reasons. Hopefully, i think that admins are far more neutral than you.—>Farawahar (talk) 18:45, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Do you even know what the word proof means? Capitals00 (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
@Jbhunley: Have you checked the diif i posted above about Ammar Mawsili ? Viaros17 used a source for his Arab claim and i used another (a historian if science) for the Persian claim. Kansas Bear, who is i think, a veteran user with NPOV, told me that since my source was not specialized in ISLAMIC studies it’s unreliable. According to Kansas, no matter that my source was published and a historian of science (David chapman), his work about a medieval muslim scholar is UNRELIABLE, i listened to him and removed my source and the Persian claim. Your comment proves only one thing : All veteran users of Wilipedia don’t agree on what is a reliable source.—>Farawahar (talk) 18:41, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)No, I have not looked at it. Would you please post the diff/links you are talking about either here or in a new thread on the talk page, so I do not need to go digging through the talk page to find them. Also, yes experienced editors disagree on source reliability regularly. However the way we deal with it, or should, is by talking the matter to the Reliable sources noticeboard. To open a thread there post the source, including page number, along with the statement being used to support it. You may also why you think the source is or is not reliable to support the statement. Sources may be reliable for one statement/kind of statement but not another. It may be considered sufficient for the claim to be made 'in Wikipedia's voice' or it may need to be attributed as the opinion of the source. There is much nuance in judging sources. Jbh Talk 18:59, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Mixing up two very different topics in an attempt to gain false consensus for your POV pushing is not helpful for you. Capitals00 (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
@Jbhunley: On a the talk page of Mubariz al din, i just asked if Nabataeus and Frasfras17 were the same user and you told me do not accuse others of sockpuppetry. Here, Capitals blatantly and repeatedly accuses me of being a sock WOTHOUT ANY PROOF and you say nothing about that. Thanks, really. I appreciate.—>Farawahar (talk) 18:52, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Where did I "repeatedly" accused you of "being a sock"? Looks like your deception is not going to stop until you are indeffed per WP:CIR and WP:NOTHERE. Capitals00 (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Sorry Jbh, i haven’t noticed your comment to Capitals. My appologies.—>Farawahar (talk) 18:55, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment While I am not an administrator and can not block anyone. I will happily ping one and ask they block the next editor who makes an upsupported accusation. All of you, stop, stop the accusations and stop replying to unsupported accusations. Just stop. Jbh Talk 18:59, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment So, am I right that none of you dispute that the general sense of the sources say the Hookah was invented in India but there are alternate, though less well accepted, claims that it was invented in Iran? Second, the dispute is about whether some specific sources, like BBC, should be included but there is no desire to change the primacy of the claim of Indian origin? Jbh Talk 19:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
@Jbhunley:Thanks for your comment, but i think Raymond and Capitals went too far here with their baseless accusations. More Capitals gave me a DS alert while i was not alerted before. For my part, i would happily welcome an admin’s eye on all this, and for the sake of honesty, even if that admin decides to block me indef, because if so, at least, i will understand that i was wrong. You must understand that this case is just making me asking myself if it’s worth keep going on editing Wikipedia since it completely disturbs me, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why so much reproachs. I have the feeling that these users hate me and i don’t understand why. Just because i want to discuss about the quality of their sources ? Really ?—>Farawahar (talk) 19:13, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- The most likely outcome is that you all get warned for one thing or another and, so long nothing is repeated that would be it. If you really want admin eyes here make an edit with —
'''Comment''' {{ping AdminName}} would you please review the issue of unsupported accusations per [[WP:NPA]]. Thank you. ~~~~Be aware that pinging a particular admin is kind of jumping the queue and the result may not be what you want. It is also borderline WP:CANVASS but since neither you nor I know how the pinged admin will respond and I am giving you several to choose from it should be OK. I would suggest NeilN, Bishonen or Swarm. Whomever you ask place their name in place ofAdminNameThey are all good, experienced administrators. Think twice. It looks like things have calmed down but it is your call… Jbh Talk 19:34, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Sorry again Jbh, haven’t noticed your last message. For my part, i just wanted to discuss about the quslity of some sources and svoid bombarding the article with additional sources with no real gain.—>Farawahar (talk) 19:21, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Indef block - per his statements:-
- "these users hate me and i don’t understand why".
- "Capitals gave me a DS alert while i was not alerted before".
- "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why so much reproachs."
- WP:CIR is the key issue here. Failure to admit any mistake and misrepresentation of other's statements confirms that Farawahar is a net negative. It also seems that Farawahar's disruption is not limited with this article but it is also found elsewhere.[247][248] His long term failure to understand WP:RS, WP:V is undoubtedly evident, and demonstration of typical battle ground mentality that he started this frivolous thread without consulting the editors in question first. such disruption leaves zero doubt that he should be blocked and should not be unblocked without imposition of a topic ban. D4iNa4 (talk) 19:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Please do not engage in deceptive quoting. Farawahar said
" I have the feeling that these users hate me and i don’t understand why."
(emp mine). Not"these users hate me and i don’t understand why."
big difference. Not sure what you are trying to illustrate with the DS quote but there is a recent long thread about how confusing editors find DS alerts and think of them as warnings or for doing something wrong. I most certainly am not incompetent and I find the vehemence being expressed in this thread a bit unsettling so I can see how an inexperienced editor might wonder about it. Or maybe it is the ALL CAPS both have equal validity to a CIR claim. Jbh Talk 19:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)- Please don't engage in deceptive WP:GAMING, I presented correct words and the meaning is still same. There is no difference. He believes people are conspiring against him, which is nothing but nonsense. Read WP:BATTLEGROUND carefully. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Also, you should check your first diff. It is made by a different editor. If your intention was to use it to show what the second diff was in reply to you should make that clear. Otherwise it looks like you are trying to show two incidents of disruption. Jbh Talk 19:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- So you rechecked my comment after you made a nonsensical response to it? That comment from "different editor" shows how incompetent Farawahar is. You must be having same WP:CIR issues as Farawahar, no wonder he is getting support from you. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Out of line. Cut the personal attacks. Jbhunley is a well established editor and you would be wise not to open yourself up for review of your own behavior. --Tarage (talk) 20:08, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is confirmed that he replied my message without reading it. Why he replied it second time while already misrepresenting it another time in favor of this WP:CIR editor? That's the issue. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:11, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- "It is confirmed that he replied my message without reading it." Nothing is confirmed. Again, stop the personal attacks or I will find an admin to step in and make sure you stop. Do you understand? Those in glass houses should not throw stones. --Tarage (talk) 20:15, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is confirmed because he made first response here and another one here. Why he didn't made both of them at once? It is clear he didn't even read my whole comment properly when he made his first comment. There is no need for him to make deliberate misrepresentation of my comments at first place. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- We have a thing here at Wikipedia called assume good faith. Right now, you are not. I'll give you the same advice I gave Farawahar. Calm down, stop posting so much, and listen to what people are saying. Jbhunley is an established editor with a long history. You would be wise to listen to what he is saying, and you'd be wise to slow down and stop edit-conflict-deleting other people's posts. You're about to be blocked for that if you continue I hope you realize. --Tarage (talk) 20:33, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- I understand you are biased about Jbhunley, given you are a party of a frivolous ArbCom case request he has filed. Hence your empty threats will do nothing. Read the comments carefully, Jbhunley started to badger my comments for no actual reason. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- We have a thing here at Wikipedia called assume good faith. Right now, you are not. I'll give you the same advice I gave Farawahar. Calm down, stop posting so much, and listen to what people are saying. Jbhunley is an established editor with a long history. You would be wise to listen to what he is saying, and you'd be wise to slow down and stop edit-conflict-deleting other people's posts. You're about to be blocked for that if you continue I hope you realize. --Tarage (talk) 20:33, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is confirmed because he made first response here and another one here. Why he didn't made both of them at once? It is clear he didn't even read my whole comment properly when he made his first comment. There is no need for him to make deliberate misrepresentation of my comments at first place. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- "It is confirmed that he replied my message without reading it." Nothing is confirmed. Again, stop the personal attacks or I will find an admin to step in and make sure you stop. Do you understand? Those in glass houses should not throw stones. --Tarage (talk) 20:15, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- It is confirmed that he replied my message without reading it. Why he replied it second time while already misrepresenting it another time in favor of this WP:CIR editor? That's the issue. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:11, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Out of line. Cut the personal attacks. Jbhunley is a well established editor and you would be wise not to open yourself up for review of your own behavior. --Tarage (talk) 20:08, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- So you rechecked my comment after you made a nonsensical response to it? That comment from "different editor" shows how incompetent Farawahar is. You must be having same WP:CIR issues as Farawahar, no wonder he is getting support from you. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Please do not engage in deceptive quoting. Farawahar said
If i go out this ANI and ask an admin for his/her opinion, is this CANVASSING ? I’m suspicious now.—>Farawahar (talk) 19:30, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- That is called WP:ADMINSHOP. Many admins are reading this page, you don't have to canvass anyone. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
D4iNa4, I said that i had the “feeling that these users hate me”, not “they hate me”. More, what battleground in your diffs ? If this is battleground, it’s okay then an admin can easily block me.—>Farawahar (talk) 19:36, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Same thing. You can twist your words in an attempt to mislead others but the fact still stands that you have a battleground mentality. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Also, you should look at Capitals talk page, Kautilya asked him not to deliver DS alerts without alerting the user before right ?—>Farawahar (talk) 19:39, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- You don't have any competence to understand simple English. Why you are trying to misrepresent things that are totally out of your scope? Per User talk:Capitals00#DS alerts, Kautilya3 said "It is not appropriate to give another alert within 12 months," it doesn't means that he can't give any DS alerts to anyone. Capitals00 replied "I understood that he was already notified recently after I had already left the notification, his talk page is way too long that I stopped loading the page in middle and left the notice." If you can't understand this simple conversation, how can we even think that you should go ahead and disrupt articles that requires judgement and correct representation of reliable sources given your WP:INCOMPETENCE? D4iNa4 (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
I invite all of you to have a look at Zakarya al Razi’s talk page and give your opinion about the sources proposed by Viaros17. I said that if there was a consensus about that, it’s ok for me, why do you say that i fail to recognize a RS ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Farawahar (talk • contribs) 19:42, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Since when we oppose block on an incompetent editor who is WP:NOTHERE and can't even understand what is being said to him or to others? D4iNa4 (talk) 20:11, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Thanks Jbh.—>Farawahar (talk) 19:52, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @D4iNa4: please consider making contributions of substance in order to resolve the issue. To date you have contributed nothing but insults. You may have a valid point of view or useful opinion but I, and probably everyone else, can not see it through all of the venom. From the article talk page it looks like a question of which sources to cite for the origin. That is not an unreasonable question since twelve different sources are cited in the lead regarding origins of the hookah. That is patently ridiculous. The lead should be restating cited information in the body of the article. Removing redundant citations, particularly in the lead is proper. See Wikipedia:Citation overkill#In article conflict. Jbh Talk 20:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would like to know if anyone is ready to mentor him and what will be the terms. Opposing any sanction is not really helpful. How good or bad the article is, that's not relevant here. We are not discussing the article nor any of these issues have been raised by Farawahar, in fact the issues that you have named, about over citing for a name, they are never going to be resolved when you have editors like Hazratleri, Farawahar, engaging in canvassing, frequently disputing reliable sources on talk page, some people resort to overciting and it happened here as well. What kind of resolution do you have in your mind? D4iNa4 (talk) 21:34, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Please see my comment before this went off the rails. I think Farawahar needs to study WP:RS and learn to articulate a persuasive argument rather than just saying 'not reliable'. I think the other editors involved here, including you, need to rein in their accusations, attacks, and insults — Nobody respects that shit. People can disagree with you in good faith. Sometimes they are right and you are wrong and sometimes it is something in between. I see one edit to the article and maybe five comments on the talk page by Farawahar including a good faith, if poorly done, attempt to analyze the sources and say why they thought it was wrong. It looks like there are similar likely good faith but clumsy edits to some other articles which may, in some way, explain why you all descended here with such, lets call it, vehemence. I would suggest that Farawahar find one, at most two, articles they want to work on. Then address their concerns on only those two articles by making policy based arguments and taking disagreements which can not be resolved to WP:RSN, WP:NPOVN or WP:ORN as appropriate. That way mistakes, misunderstanding or disruption will be contained while they learn how to apply Wikipedia's content policies and how to present their case. It will also highlight any IDHT or CIR issues, should they exist. After doing five or six like that they should have a good handle on Wikipedia's PaGs and dealing with collaborative editing. Farawahar is, like anyone, welcome to ping me if they get into difficulty. Last time I ran into Farawahar I was on the other side of the dispute so I'm sure they know I will not automatically take their side. You and your compatriots here were the bad actors on this thread. Maybe Farawahar did something wrong and maybe you had some valid complaints but the unsupported accusations, unfounded attacks and generally abysmal behavior obscured any case there was to make. In particular you frenzied and repeated attacks on me were both uncalled for and pointless. If you disagreed with me, or thought I misrepresented what you said then say so. You can be polite or blunt and you will get a response, I may even end up agreeing. Being snotty on the other hand gets you nothing. Jbh Talk 22:22, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- I would like to know if anyone is ready to mentor him and what will be the terms. Opposing any sanction is not really helpful. How good or bad the article is, that's not relevant here. We are not discussing the article nor any of these issues have been raised by Farawahar, in fact the issues that you have named, about over citing for a name, they are never going to be resolved when you have editors like Hazratleri, Farawahar, engaging in canvassing, frequently disputing reliable sources on talk page, some people resort to overciting and it happened here as well. What kind of resolution do you have in your mind? D4iNa4 (talk) 21:34, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @D4iNa4: please consider making contributions of substance in order to resolve the issue. To date you have contributed nothing but insults. You may have a valid point of view or useful opinion but I, and probably everyone else, can not see it through all of the venom. From the article talk page it looks like a question of which sources to cite for the origin. That is not an unreasonable question since twelve different sources are cited in the lead regarding origins of the hookah. That is patently ridiculous. The lead should be restating cited information in the body of the article. Removing redundant citations, particularly in the lead is proper. See Wikipedia:Citation overkill#In article conflict. Jbh Talk 20:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
‘’’comment’’’ @Bishonen: would you please review the issue of unsupported accusations per WP:NPA and unsupported call for block please ? Thank you .Farawahar (talk) 19:56, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- WP:ADMINSHOP won't help. D4iNa4 (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Farawahar: Please see [249]. Though I would not suggest pinging another admin. Anyway, Bbb23, an admin, has their eyes on this per [250]. Considering the thread has degraded into a madhouse I suspect no one is going to jump in unless the personal attacks continue or someone really screws up. My advice would be disengage completely from this thread I seriously doubt you will get banne/blocked if you just ignore everything except questions from uninvolved editors. Make diffs of all of the unsupported accusations and attacks and save them if the same people attack you again. If they do, open an ANI thread and clearly and concisely make a complaint about their behavior. Once you do do not reply to their responses. If they make mistatements make diffs and after some uninvolved editors have commented make your replies. That will keep a repeat of this shit-show from occurring. Jbh Talk 21:00, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Farawahar, I understand that you are upset, but show down the comments, and do not ask for sanctions for people calling for a block. You are doing yourself more harm than good by doing either. --Tarage (talk) 20:07, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Hi Tarage, thanks for your comment. i want to understand. I am not asking for sanctions (for me or others), this is admin’s call, but please read the text above and imagine this was about you, what would you think ? I spent a lot of time editing Wikipedia, and i think i did my best to be usefull ... —>Farawahar (talk) 20:16, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- I understand. Wikipedia can be a scary place for a new editor and unfortunately, you have stepped into the lion's den by posting on this so-called 'drama board'. My suggestion for you is to stop replying unless someone asks you a specific question and let people talk this issue through. You already have an editor defending you in Jbhunley who can articulate things much better than you can at the moment. Right now, your job is to listen and accept earnest feedback. Slow down, take your time, and listen to what people are telling you, even if you don't agree with it. --Tarage (talk) 20:19, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your advice. Ok, i will follow it, stop replying and listen.—>Farawahar (talk) 20:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @D4iNa4: You are out of control. Unless you stop interpolating your comments everywhere and moving other user's comments around, as well as repeated personal attacks on any editor who disagrees with you, you risk being blocked. I suggest you stay away from this thread completely.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:59, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
@Jbhunley: Ok, no problem, i leave the thread. Just a question before leaving : can i remove the DS alert from my talk page, or is this considered like a misconduct ? ( i mean, i know we can remove ordinary comments from our talk page but what about warnings and alerts ?). Again, thank you for your wise advices and sorry if i looked like a little angry about all this mess. I don’t know if this is because i’m a woman and a little emotive, but i can say that all the attacks badly hurt me. Nice week-end everybody.—>Farawahar (talk) 21:53, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Farawahar: Yes, you can remove the alert. If you leave anything else in that section, though, make sure there's still context. The easiest thing to do is to remove the entire section, including Capitals00's added comments and your response.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:00, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I'm more concerned about the approach of D4iNa4, Capitals00, and Raymond3023 than I am by Farawahar. There's certainly enough for WP:TROUT all around, but I doubt anything more ANI can do here will be productive. This seems like a situation where WP:ARBIPA discretionary sanctions or a new case would be more helpful than discussion here. However, hopefully, the personal attacks (by everyone) can stop, and discussion on the talk page can achieve a consensus (as it's about the ethnic history of an object, expecting everyone involved to agree may not be reasonable). power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:19, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- After reading through more edit history, I may tsupport some action against Farawahar. They seem to do nothing but POV-pushing edits regarding nationality (example diff: [251]), also at Talk:Ismail al-Jazari and Ibn al-Haytham, the latter an article with a historically high volume of POV pushing, but not under Discretionary Sanctions. The users I mentioned in my previous comment aren't helping their own causes by commenting here. power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Put the pitchforks away and go start an RfC. That's what RfC's are for. Someone kindly close this as a content dispute, and consider trouting liberally, especially for calling for an indef of a user who's made, as far as I can tell, a single edit to the article ever, and all of a half dozen comments on the talk page. ANI is not the first step in the dispute resolution process. GMGtalk 22:39, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I second the above suggestion to close this uncharacteristically vicious discussion with a stern warning or trout if an admin can identify the behavioral misonduct at issue in this pile on.Seraphim System (talk) 22:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
I have been notified by user:Power-enwiki. Please note that i have been asked to leave the thread and so i did. Please Power-enwiki, if your notification is about my so-called POV-editing, you can check the diffs you posted above and see that i added another ethnicity than mine (Polish and Persian), or added source for another ethnicity than mine. If you need any further explanation, i will be happy to oblige, but for now, with your permission, i need to disconnect for a while from Wikipedia. Thanks.—>Farawahar (talk) 23:58, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Arbitrary Hookah Break
To attempt to summarize the wall of text found above: Hazratleri (talk · contribs) (blocked for sock-puppetry) recently started a discussion about the historical origins of the hookah at Talk:Hookah. Farawahar (talk · contribs) was canvassed to that discussion, and after some discussion, brought the dispute to ANI. A large amount of discussion followed here. All of the editors involved are advised to avoid personal attacks. power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:39, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
User:HenSti
| Alright, given that @HenSti: has replied here with an assurance to adhere to WP:V going forward, I'll close this with a simple reminder that the messages they've received regarding sourcing and communication are entirely accurate and are in fact non-negotiable. While HenSti hasn't addressed this issue directly, they may be blocked if failure to communicate continues. Please re-report if necessary. Swarm ♠ 21:46, 13 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- HenSti (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
I have contacted this editor four times over a number of weeks; they continue to edit but won't reply. Full messages at User talk:HenSti#Sources. HenSti knows how to reply to messages, has been editing for years and knows how to add references, but will not communicate on this issue and hasn't added the references. I have directed them to links showing it is policy to engage in discussion, but to no avail. I am hoping they will engage now. Boleyn (talk) 08:40, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Boleyn - Does the source provided at HMS Enterprise (1705) have what you're looking for? I'm sure you've already looked at it, but I just thought I'd ask just in case :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 11:34, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- That is presumably their source; I guess my main concern is the refusal to communicate and the creation of several unreferenced articles - do they understand the need to work with other editors and to verify information? I've no idea if they won't talk. Boleyn (talk) 11:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that this is potentially problematic and that collaboration and communication is a key part of contributing to the project and working as a team with others. I'm going to allow others to comment on this discussion so we can figure out the best course of action moving forward that will help this user and benefit the project overall... ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 12:01, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- To be fair, most of the articles in Category:Lists of ship launches don't seem to be well referenced, with lots of them completely unreferenced, (as with many other list-type articles on Wikipedia), so its not as if the community is setting a terrifically good example with regard to sourcing of this type of article. This does not excuse the failure to respond to concerns of course.Nigel Ish (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- List articles are often poor, which is why I linked to WP:SourceList on their talk page, because many editors aren't aware lists should be referenced, and I don't blame them. I was hoping the editor would respond and we could work together, but when it's been pointed out to them and they've ignored it, then it is disruptive. I'll look through the category and see if I can find any sources for the unref ones - so hopefully there will be some better examples out there, although a drop in the ocean. Boleyn (talk) 21:18, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- To be fair, most of the articles in Category:Lists of ship launches don't seem to be well referenced, with lots of them completely unreferenced, (as with many other list-type articles on Wikipedia), so its not as if the community is setting a terrifically good example with regard to sourcing of this type of article. This does not excuse the failure to respond to concerns of course.Nigel Ish (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that this is potentially problematic and that collaboration and communication is a key part of contributing to the project and working as a team with others. I'm going to allow others to comment on this discussion so we can figure out the best course of action moving forward that will help this user and benefit the project overall... ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 12:01, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- That is presumably their source; I guess my main concern is the refusal to communicate and the creation of several unreferenced articles - do they understand the need to work with other editors and to verify information? I've no idea if they won't talk. Boleyn (talk) 11:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- HenSti, you've continued to edit, you need to join in the discussion here. This discussion is just trying to find a solution to this problem, but you are risking a block by refusing to comment. Boleyn (talk) 18:42, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
Normally I name my souces. DNV GL od ABS, ... In the furure i try to be more consequent with this. HenSti (talk) 06:20, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Sidebar, does not appear to be relevant. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:01, 9 April 2018 (UTC) |
|---|
|
Sources: ABS, DNV GL (classification society) HenSti (talk) 09:08, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
User:Alexisajet
| Blocked indef. Swarm ♠ 02:36, 14 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Alexisajet has been repeatedly adding unverified material to Wikipedia, including creating unreferenced articles, and refusing to communicate. I have sent them six messages over several weeks. I have pointed out the importance of the policy WP:V, as well as that communication is required under the policies WP:DISPUTE and WP:CONDUCT. Other editors have also left many messages of concern which have been ignored, see User talk:Alexisajet. This editor has only been editing a couple of months, and has never responded to a talk page message. Boleyn (talk) 15:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Seems like a case of WP:IDHT. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 20:20, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Lack of communication is the key issue here. He has 539 edits [254] though none of them were made on any discussion page. D4iNa4 (talk) 21:43, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Vandalism on Inna
Hi there! Recently, User:INNAjm keeps vandalizing Inna by making the picture in the article's infobox very big and changing the singer's name from "Inna" to "INNA". Some of his edit summaries include: "you, please stop vandalism", "wikipedia fo all users, this article or all articles for all users, and watch, small size pic" and "happy cartoon network freaky". He/She even sent me a message, clarifying that "you're monopoly style is bad, INNA Article MONOPOLY for Cartoon network freak, what this". Can someone help? Many thanks! Cartoon network freak (talk) 04:39, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have warned both parties here, Cartoon network freak, next time remember to avoid WP:3RR and bring the attention to the talk page of the article in question. Engaging in this type of behavior is unnecessary, and it does not look good on your end when you fail to communicate with the other party in question to resolve the issue. Also, when you bring an issue at AN/I, you must notify the other party(ies) involved in this case so they can defend themselves. Best – jona✉ 14:57, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Cartoon network freak: That's just a new user who's trying to contribute in good faith, and they're allowed to do so. You're expected to work with them. Assuming their intentions are negative is a breach of policy. Labeling their edits vandalism is a breach of policy. Declaring yourself to be the "main contributor" in a content dispute is a breach of policy. Repeatedly reverting is a breach of policy. Failing to articulate specific objections when reverting is a breach of policy. Doing all of these things to a newbie is, you guessed it, a breach of policy. The only difference between your conduct and INNAjm's is that they are a new user, so they have a good excuse for problems with their editing. You have made about the same number of edits as I have, so please, enlighten me: what's your excuse? Swarm♠ 23:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Swarm: I think any other comment by me now is superflouous. I'm the one who brought Inna to GA (the result of hard work), so I always look for it to remain in a good shape, undoing poppycock added by some users like in this case. So yeah, I do have an excuse, if you take it that way... Not undoing bad edits just because they're made by a "newbie" does not sound good to me, and, yeah, you don't need to count those policies to me another time. Cartoon network freak (talk) 05:13, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Cartoon network freak: Ah. So that's what this is. You put in hard work, bringing the article to GA, and you don't want incompetent idiots messing it up. I have to tell you, that's understandable, sympathetic even. But by handling the situation the way you did, you became the bad guy. Understand? Just because you curated a good article does not mean that you can do those things that I called you out on. I understand where you're coming from, but you were in the wrong. I won't hold that against you, because I know it's frustrating having a vested interest screwed around with by random newbies, but please keep those policies and guidelines that I linked in mind going forward. If you abide by them, you might resolve these situations easier, and if it doesn't work, then we can work with you. But if you do all these wrong things, then you really have no standing to bring a complaint to us. Swarm♠ 05:33, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Swarm: I apologize, if it's not too late now. Cartoon network freak (talk) 06:46, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Not at all. Just keep this in mind. There are other fans who wish to contribute to the article in good faith, and that doesn't necessarily mean that they need, or deserve, to be shut out. You are not required to train them or to babysit them. But simple gestures of good faith collaboration would go a long way. And you can still revert unproductive edits while doing so. Swarm ♠ 07:29, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Swarm: I apologize, if it's not too late now. Cartoon network freak (talk) 06:46, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Cartoon network freak: Ah. So that's what this is. You put in hard work, bringing the article to GA, and you don't want incompetent idiots messing it up. I have to tell you, that's understandable, sympathetic even. But by handling the situation the way you did, you became the bad guy. Understand? Just because you curated a good article does not mean that you can do those things that I called you out on. I understand where you're coming from, but you were in the wrong. I won't hold that against you, because I know it's frustrating having a vested interest screwed around with by random newbies, but please keep those policies and guidelines that I linked in mind going forward. If you abide by them, you might resolve these situations easier, and if it doesn't work, then we can work with you. But if you do all these wrong things, then you really have no standing to bring a complaint to us. Swarm♠ 05:33, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Swarm: I think any other comment by me now is superflouous. I'm the one who brought Inna to GA (the result of hard work), so I always look for it to remain in a good shape, undoing poppycock added by some users like in this case. So yeah, I do have an excuse, if you take it that way... Not undoing bad edits just because they're made by a "newbie" does not sound good to me, and, yeah, you don't need to count those policies to me another time. Cartoon network freak (talk) 05:13, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Cartoon network freak: That's just a new user who's trying to contribute in good faith, and they're allowed to do so. You're expected to work with them. Assuming their intentions are negative is a breach of policy. Labeling their edits vandalism is a breach of policy. Declaring yourself to be the "main contributor" in a content dispute is a breach of policy. Repeatedly reverting is a breach of policy. Failing to articulate specific objections when reverting is a breach of policy. Doing all of these things to a newbie is, you guessed it, a breach of policy. The only difference between your conduct and INNAjm's is that they are a new user, so they have a good excuse for problems with their editing. You have made about the same number of edits as I have, so please, enlighten me: what's your excuse? Swarm♠ 23:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
User:DashDog01
| (non-admin closure) Reported user blocked. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:01, 15 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
DashDog01 recently changed my userpage from User:Levdizd to Template:Levdizd. I am new to Wikipedia, so I don't know exactly what this means, but it appears unnecessary and unconstructive. Levdizd (talk) 00:15, 15 April 2018 (UTC)Levdizd
- I have fixed it and warned him on his talk page. Ping me here or message me on my talk page if he does something like that again. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:27, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have blocked that editor for this and a couple of other incidents. I have great doubt that DashDog01 is here to build the encyclopedia. Cullen328Let's discuss it 00:39, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
User talk:WikiEditorAU
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have contacted this editor four times since January, and although they've continued to edit in between all the messages, they have not responded or addressed the concerns. Please see User talk:WikiEditorAU#Sources and User talk:WikiEditorAU#Sources and communication for full messages about repeatedly creating unreferenced articles, pointing to the policies re communication and verifiability. Boleyn (talk) 16:45, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
Image of an underage murder victim
| Image removed due to copyright considerations, is tagged for deletion on Commons. With both of these things considered, I've removed the OP's link to the image as well. Swarm ♠ 18:00, 14 April 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Probably not the right forum, but I feel urgent attention is required. We are currently linking to an image, the copyright status of which I cannot verify, of an 8 year old girl who was raped and then murdered. I am uncertain if this would be appropriate even if the licensing were immaculate, and would appreciate some advice. Vanamonde (talk) 14:06, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- The photo is pre-murder. It's certainly in scope - e.g. Murder of James Bulger, it feels appropriate to me to have a photo of the victim. Copyright is more of an issue - there may be a fair use case, but as it stands, further digging needs doing. ∰Bellezzasolo✡Discuss 14:09, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Regarding copyright, a reverse image search throws the earliest matches as [255] [256]. It looks like a family photo has been legitimately uploaded to me, but we will need OTRS verification. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 14:15, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @EEng: potentially urgent, because the WMF takes the privacy of minors fairly seriously. Vanamonde (talk) 17:02, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- The image was uploaded to Wikipedia on April 14th, the same image was on the NYT on April 11th, by someone claiming the image was their own work. Just remove it for lack of copyright and the problem is solved. 124.106.139.19 (talk) 17:08, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
RHaworth and speedies
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- RHaworth has acknowleged the communication issues and no futher action is required
RHaworth (talk · contribs) is a long-standing admin who has done a lot of work to clear the persistent backlog at CAT:CSD. However, I have witnessed him making mistakes and talking to newbies in a far too intemperate a manner. I know admins don't have to be perfect, and I'm not always the most civil and polite admin on the block, granted, but I think he's going a bit too far. Some recent examples:
- UK railway station openings / reopenings by year (now at Draft:UK railway station openings / reopenings by year) - deleted A10 as a copy of History of rail transport in Great Britain 1995 to date though the list intended to cover the greater scope of all UK stations. See comment from Andy Dingley.
- Green tomato cars - deleted G11, after challenged by the creator, the response was "learn to provide a link when you talk about a page". After I restored the article, RHaworth sent it to AfD and moved it to Green Tomato Cars without a redirect (causing a problem where I inadvertently created the article again while I was copyediting it, requiring a history merge to fix). The AfD does not have an unanimous "delete" consensus, which is a good general arbiter of whether or not a speedy is appropriate.
- Draft:Divya Agarwal - deleted G4, though no previous deletion discussion had taken place. See comment from Chrissymad where she appears to be complaining about RHaworth calling Oshwah a "pedant".
- Draft:Comedian Nazareth - deleted per G13, hence can be restored on request. RHaworth's reply was "Kindly have the decency to wait until someone who a) knows how to create Wikipedia articles and b) has no CoI, thinks your client is notable and writes about him here.", also altering an earlier talk page comment of mine in the process (a minor violation of WP:TPO).
These are all in the last week or so, but if you go onto RHaworth's talk page archives, you can see other examples of him being unhelpful. I appreciate that speedy deletion is necessary for the project - heck, I speedy delete plenty of stuff myself, and admins sometimes differ over what is speedyable. However, I sincerely believe if you delete a page created in good faith, you should be in a position to work with that editor, and not make them increasingly frustrated. I don't seem to be the only one with this opinion; as you might imagine, SoWhy has previously said "With all due respect to RHaworth, I would never agree that a speedy deletion was justified just because he thought so." and this notorious boingboing piece which says "I do not have the capability to write an additional 2 million more articles in my lifetime to save the remaining 2 million stubs from deletionists like RHaworth, the hemovanadin killer whose itchy deletion finger was noted by a commenter in my previous article as directly responsible for that editor's abandoning the project." (the context here is an incorrect G12 deletion on Hemovanadin). Okay, strong opinions there that not everyone will agree with, but this isn't just a personal grudge, more an indication that there is a problem.
To be honest, I'd feel more comfortable if RHaworth had given me a thorough dressing down about how I was being overly aggressive and how his admin actions were correct (I wouldn't agree with it but I would understand why he would say it), but I've had next to no feedback. Things have deteriorated to the point where I don't trust any deletion activity he does as being correct and just revert anything that I feel is wrong. This is a bad situation to be in, as it's one stop short of wheel-warring, but as Andy Dingley put it here, "Go and do some training for WMF / WMUK somewhere. Hear the "I wrote something and then it was deleted immediately with no discussion" stories - it's so often the same admin names that come up, over and over again." So I think the community needs to do something.
Any ideas? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Awaiting a response by RHaworth; it's unlikely discussion will be productive before then. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:35, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks Ritchie for opening this, although I'm not optimistic about much happening as a result (an admin admit they're wrong?). This is a long-standing issue - although even RHaworth's "unorthodox" user_talk: page archiving strategy makes it impossible to search its history.
- Just a month or two back though, we had this one on Category:Bandini vehicles: WikiProject Automobiles §Bandini deletions, Criteria for speedy deletion §G6 on "empty" categories? – another one where an invalid CSD nomination, on a clearly contentious issue, was then implemented as deletion without the slightest check or question. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:35, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Further on the "bad press" aspect, we get articles like this: "Watching Wikipedia's extinction event from a distance". Boing Boing. 14 February 2017.Andy Dingley (talk) 20:08, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- There's another recent complaint at User talk:Feminist#'Murica! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:13, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Further on the "bad press" aspect, we get articles like this: "Watching Wikipedia's extinction event from a distance". Boing Boing. 14 February 2017.Andy Dingley (talk) 20:08, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- It has been obvious for very many years to anyone who bothers to look that RHaworth is incompetent to judge speedy deletion. He was one of the two or three admins primarily responsible for my giving up editing with a userid a few years ago. One example among many was his speedy deletion of Cheveley Park Stud and the title's salting in response to my questioning of the deletion. It's about time we did something about long-standing admins who get away with such disruption simply because of their length of tenure. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 20:47, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- He does a LOT of CSD so there is bound to be some who find fault occasionally. Every page subjected to CSD has at least the creator believingbit should remain live. Legacypac (talk) 20:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Try actually looking at his record rather than making such general statements. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 21:03, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Well I'm not an Admin so I can only see so much - but the IP should actually look at my 11 page long record covering only since June 2017 before assuming I don't have a very good idea about every Admin's competence in processing Speedies. Legacypac (talk) 21:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- As stated above, I do lots of speedies myself; however I think the key issue is effective communication and managing people's expectations. It's why I created essays such as User:Ritchie333/Plain and simple guide to copyvios simply because trying to explain WP:G12 (which requires an instant deletion, if valid) to a newbie without them getting the hump is actually quite a difficult task. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:28, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) If we're going to let publications such as BoingBoing dictate our policies and (worse) ANI-cases against admins, we're definitely on the wrong track. The two articles cited are prime examples of hit-pieces instead of serious press. If BoingBoing doesn't like Wikipedia, I tend to view that as a compliment. As to the matter at hand, I side with Legacypac: you can't make an omelet w/o breaking some eggs, you can't be an admin without stepping on various toes. Kleuske (talk) 21:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Have you read the Boing Boing piece? Have you read the technical backstory to the hemovanadin CSD? This was a technical failure in sloppy adminship: a clear and unquestioned copyvio change to an article (previously not a copyvio) was reacted to by deletion, rather than reversion. There's just no excuse for that. The Bandini category was deleted for an invalid CSD reason which just isn't applicable to content categories (it's there for housekeeping of maintenance categories only).
- AfD is always a battle between inclusionism vs. deletionism. But this isn't AfD, it's CSD - that should be simpler, there's no judgemental wiggle room for inclusion or not. CSD is there (and only there) for the technical reasons and the unambiguous invalid articles. If someone, even the article creator, can make a policy-valid case that an article might be suitable for inclusion, then the CSD fails and it goes to AfD as a minimum. CSD is just not there for arguing inclusionist / deletionist cases. But these deletions are so often technically broken - outside the policies of valid CSD rules. CSD is not about "speedy" deletion, it's about clear, unarguable and uncontestable deletion. If they're arguable, there are other mechanisms. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:55, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Andy Dingley: I have read both pieces and both, but especially the first, lack any journalistic decency. Both depend more on insinuations than facts. I have gone through the history of hemovanadin and what I see is Wikipedia working as it should. Someone screwed up and it got corrected quickly. I despise all isms and actively dislike people who reduce issues to various isms, since that's a very divisive way dealing with things. If you expect admins to be flawless, you'l be disappointed. No-one (but no-one) on Wikipedia is. Kleuske (talk) 22:04, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- See my comment in the recent SoWhy thread: RHaworth is on the opposite end of the speedy-deletion spectrum as SoWhy. He will delete a lot of things I wouldn't, but at the same time, most of the things he deletes really should be deleted, and having someone to push the envelope in that direction in terms of quality-control isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've brought an article to DYK after he deleted it (Tallinn Central Library (deletion log under a different title.), and I'll admit that his response to me was a bit gruff, but this was also how it stood when he deleted it. I can't rally blame him for that, even if my approach was different.I've noticed a few G12s in the past that I think he should be more careful on (I can't find them now, so this is more of just general feedback than an accusation or diff-able type thing), and I do think that he could be better in his responses to users on his talk page, but at the end of the day, I think he does a lot of good work that is needed. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:44, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- "I do think that he could be better in his responses to users on his talk page" And Donald Trump could be a bit more conciliatory and tactful over what he says in public. Anyway, that's not the real issue here, which is - if I happen to see a deletion from RHaworth that I disagree with (which seems to be about four a week at the moment), is the community okay with me just restoring it and telling him to go jump? I don't think that's a healthy situation to be in. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:48, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- "most of the things he deletes really should be deleted"
- Most isn't good enough. We have policies for a reason, and they're binding on RHaworth too. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:58, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm sure that the vast majority of RHaworth's CSDs are correct, but on the other hand if you're going to do a lot of CSD, you really do need to get the basics right, and you do need to communicate reasonably with often unhappy users. The first three examples quoted by Ritchie (the A10 of the railway stations, the G11 of the taxi company, and the G4) were all simply wrong. Whilst calling Oshwah a pedant was unnecessary, the G4 doesn't really matter that much because the article was deletable as G11 (although I note the person is probably notable if someone wrote a proper article), but the other two were not. Black Kite (talk) 21:51, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- "you really do need to get the basics right, and you do need to communicate reasonably with often unhappy users. " Amen to that. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:59, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I can agree with your analysis. TonyBallioni (talk) 22:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Admins that do a lot of CSD will have the appearance of making more mistakes (believe me, I would know). Relative to other admins, RHaworth has been our most active non-bot admin by an enormous margin since the beginning of 2018. I'm skeptical that RHaworth's ratio of errors to deletes is higher than any other admin. Yes, his communication style could be better, but I'm not seeing any immediate need for sanctions. -FASTILY 22:13, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I've got a good theory behind that. If you just accept every CSD tag is correct and just hit "delete" indiscriminately regardless of whether it's justified, you can get through a backlog far quicker than if you look at the article and sources, and confirm whether deletion is the correct action. To give you an example, I've just declined two A7s for Nancy Smith (designer) and Monica Rawlins; fixing up the article so it is properly formatted and clearly shows sources (principally to stop somebody else coming along and tagging it them A7 again) took about ten minutes. Hitting the "delete" button on the pair would have taken ten seconds. In that respect, it's no different than the problems I saw at AfC some years back where a few editors "helpfully" cleared the backlog of reviews by declining just about everything. I apologise if it wasn't obvious from the opening statement, but I wasn't particularly looking for sanctions (what form would said sanctions take, for a start?); rather I just wanted an explanation. I certainly haven't got one from his talk page. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:21, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Contrary to what many may think, I do have a life outside of Wikipedia. Hence the timing of this reply. Yes, Ritchie I think you are being overly aggressive. Apparently I am not allowed to make any mistakes at all. But to look at the examples you quote:
- Green tomato cars. I don't even call this a mistake, simply an example of bold / revert / discuss operating as it should. I found it with a speedy tag, agreed with that tag and made bold to delete it. Ritchie disagreed and reverted my deletion. I initiated an AfD discussion. What's the problem?
- UK railway station openings / reopenings by year. Similar to the above but in this case I have not even bothered to initiate a discussion.
- Draft:Divya Agarwal. A favourite line of mine from Murder in the Cathedral: "the last temptation is the greatest treason: to do the right deed for the wrong reason". Certainly giving an inaccurate deletion reason seems to be a treasonable offence on Wikipedia.
- Draft:Comedian Nazareth. The message on my talk page did not explicitly request a restore. Was I expected to restore the work of an obvious CoI merchant voluntrarily? or even advise him of his rights to make such a request?
- In short: I defend all my deletions - am I required to be perfect? - if a small fraction of them were "wrong" others have restored them. But Ritchie, feel free to comment if you think I am communicating unreasonably with any unhappy user. — RHaworth (talk·contribs) 22:33, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not impressed by this response at all, and a candidate at RFA would be pilloried for it. For non-admins, a CSD is not the start of a BRD-style discussion, but the end of one. The CSD guidelines also state
Administrators should take care not to speedy delete pages or media except in the most obvious cases
, which is the opposite of BOLD. power~enwiki (π, ν) 23:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not impressed by this response at all, and a candidate at RFA would be pilloried for it. For non-admins, a CSD is not the start of a BRD-style discussion, but the end of one. The CSD guidelines also state
- @ RHaworth: I'm not sure you've understood the concern Ritchie333 has raised. It's fine if you make mistakes, we all do. But when other editors ask you for deletion explanations and/or help, could you please make an honest effort to be of assistance? I don't think that's an unreasonable request. -FASTILY 23:51, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- Given the divergence of views on what should be deleted, there will always be disagreements. I tag or delete a lot of CSDs, and not every one of them has been correct. My usual guess is that any experienced person should have a <5% error rate, the best practical human error rate is 1%, and I manage about 2%. Most of my errors are borderline, a few are just stupid. RHaworth and I and most experienced admins almost always agree for speedies--but not quite always. (& I point out that even "most obvious cases" will always have a fuzzy boundary of whether something really is quite that obvious.)
- But the real problem here is that it is utter unacceptable to respond "Kindly have the decency to wait until someone who a) knows how to create Wikipedia articles and b) has no CoI, thinks your client is notable and writes about him here." , even to people writing blatantly promotional paid biographies. And even worse for autobiographies, it come out as "Kindly have the decency to wait until someone ... thinks you are is notable and writes about you here." (My own wording for that rather common situation is "When you become notable enough that other people write about you in third-party independent reliable sources, then someone will be interested enough to write your biography". The message will be understood equally well.) I cannot imagine ever saying "Kindly have the decency .." on wikipedia even at the peak of frustration, let alone routinely. DGG ( talk ) 05:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe he just played too much Bioshock? Andy Dingley (talk) 20:07, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- DGG, I consider that it is perfectly OK for me to say firmly to someone "I think that you should not be contributing to Wikipedia". So please give me a form of words that I could have used to reply here to BrentMBeshara . — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 13:23, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe he just played too much Bioshock? Andy Dingley (talk) 20:07, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Comment--I concur with much of what Ritchie has said.And, my sole experience with him has been pathetic, when post an interesting OTRS conversation, I asked him to refund a non-speediable article, so that it could be AFD'd but he went into a radio-silent-mode and didn't refund it.And, I would appreciate RHaworth, giving us assurances of more-friendly communication.All that being said, I somehat concur with Tony that having sysops at both end of the spectrum is beneficial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Winged Blades of Godric (talk • contribs) 06:30, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Since I am a relatively new administrator and am only 126 on the list of those taking admin actions in 2018 (including bots), I am reluctant to criticize the far more experienced #1 human administrator. But I have to agree with Ritchie333 and DGG, among others. Any good faith editor who comes to your talk page deserves a good faith, informative response, rather than something dismissive. Certainly, there may be disagreement about who is truly acting in good faith, but when there is any doubt, please try to err on the side of kindness and helpfulness, RHaworth. That is the Wikipedia way. Cullen328Let's discuss it 06:45, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- actually, I extend it even to those who may not be in good faith.I'lll give a full explanation the first time round, assuming good faith. If it becomes evidence other, the way to proceed is to still be polite, but firm. We cannot ask someone directly for their identity, but i do say, that I cannot help further unless I know who you represent. If they do not want to acknowledge the coi, that tends to give a conclusion. In particular, I always ask that of anyone who appeals to me privately off wiki. DGG ( talk ) 08:51, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Seeing as how RHaworth's user page states "I have a well-justified reputation for blunt speaking on talk pages. But such pages are not a vicar's tea party. I take my standards from parliamentary language - if a Speaker would allow it then I use it" he is unlikely to start communicating in a friendly manner, whether the users are good-faith or not.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:58, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- As I write, I can see five unanswered posts on RHaworth's talk page from editors wondering why their article was deleted - I would say this is a good opportunity for him to show he can take the above advice on board and put this discussion to bed. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 13:47, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Got to love the second discussion on his talkpage where he states "I hate it when I leave messages and people completely ignore them". LugnutsFire Walk with Me 16:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Winged Blades, I would like you to substantiate that "radio-silent" jibe. If you are talking about this exchange, I claim that a reply within eight hours is perfectly acceptable and that I did email you details even though you had not explicitly requested me to do so. — RHaworth (talk·contribs) 13:36, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Hmm...You emailed the content(s) and then used your silence to reject my subsequent request of un-deletion.You ought to know, that for purposes of attribution, I couldn't have restored the material in main-space. ~ Winged BladesGodric 13:41, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Winged Blades, I would like you to substantiate that "radio-silent" jibe. If you are talking about this exchange, I claim that a reply within eight hours is perfectly acceptable and that I did email you details even though you had not explicitly requested me to do so. — RHaworth (talk·contribs) 13:36, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- Got to love the second discussion on his talkpage where he states "I hate it when I leave messages and people completely ignore them". LugnutsFire Walk with Me 16:03, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- As I write, I can see five unanswered posts on RHaworth's talk page from editors wondering why their article was deleted - I would say this is a good opportunity for him to show he can take the above advice on board and put this discussion to bed. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 13:47, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Since I am a relatively new administrator and am only 126 on the list of those taking admin actions in 2018 (including bots), I am reluctant to criticize the far more experienced #1 human administrator. But I have to agree with Ritchie333 and DGG, among others. Any good faith editor who comes to your talk page deserves a good faith, informative response, rather than something dismissive. Certainly, there may be disagreement about who is truly acting in good faith, but when there is any doubt, please try to err on the side of kindness and helpfulness, RHaworth. That is the Wikipedia way. Cullen328Let's discuss it 06:45, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Ouch. Looks like RHaworth is at about the point where I usually take a Wikibreak :-( Guy (Help!) 13:55, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Abstractly, there is a pattern on Wikipedia where high output contributors come under the microscope, and plenty of evidence is found on which to crucify them. Here in RHaworth, we have the 2nd most prolific admin in terms of deletions in the history of Wikipedia. In the 4620 days he has been an administrator, he has deleted things 393340 times, or ~85 a day. Even if he is right 99.9% of the time (highly unlikely) he still has a mistake every other week. We can find plenty of evidence to suggest he's making lots of mistakes in speedy deletions. Contrast; if we had an admin that did 1000 deletions and made only 1 mistake (RHaworth's presumed ratio), we'd congratulate them on a job well done. It should be noted that RHaworth is the 6th most active undeleter, with 7272 undeletions, or about two a day. All this said, I consider it highly important than an administrator be responsive to queries about their actions and to do so in a civil manner. This is ensconced in policy at WP:ADMINACCT. I would much rather see an admin engage in less deletions and rapid, civil responses to queries than to see high volume deletions and slow/uncivil responses. The reason we need administrators with such high volume output is due to declining participation in such things. The answer to that is not more deletions with less proper responses, but more proper responses and less deletions so as not to dissuade future highly active editors, and later administrators. We need to foster the community. We can't do that by deleting everything on sight and then not responding as to why. I'm not suggesting RHaworth is doing this, but rather what we need to avoid. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:46, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- "I don't even call this a mistake, simply an example of bold / revert / discuss operating as it should." I don't. I call it "Reverting another admin's actions without discussion". Normally, when I see a G11 I disagree with (which isn't often), I'd say something like "hey, I think I can clean this up, do you mind if I restore it?". But with you I see pages of rude or intemperate replies (as other people have mentioned), so I think I'll just get the same if I requested it (as Godric has mentioned), which leads me to not think it's worth the hassle. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:31, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have found a lot of errors in RHaworth's speedy deletions, and in some cases they clearly delete outside the bounds of what is permitted by the various criteria, see their comment about halfway through this diff. That being said, their error rate is probably about the same as anyone else's, it is just more noticeable given the sheer amount of work they get through. I do wish they'd stick a little closer to the rules though, and that's coming from an unashamed deletionist. Lankiveil (speak to me) 06:04, 10 April 2018 (UTC).
- I think we all need to be careful conflating outright 'errors' with 'my opinion would be different there'. If RHaworth occasionally deletes something that - in a presumably less-reductive view - should not have been deleted because it could have become a 'real' article, then you can ask him to restore it, you can ask another admin to restore it, you can go to WP:RFU, or you can just make the new, better article from scratch, given that the deleted stuff is almost always not of any real encyclopedic value anyway (the topic may be, its treatment at that point was not). It's not like a speedy deletion is a brick wall, and when your article is deleted, even as a new editor, you are clearly pointed towards Wikipedia:Why was my article deleted?. Pillorying is not the solution. Fish+Karate 10:14, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- But having a an admin with a very terse attitude IS a problem. I guess WP:BITE doesn't apply to Haworth. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 13:28, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
- Terse!=Bite. Kleuske (talk) 08:00, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- But, in this case, Bite=Bite. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- That's your claim. Now back it up. Why this this shitshow still open, BTW? Kleuske (talk) 20:58, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- From a quick spin through WP:IPHUMAN, "Count yourself lucky I am condescending to talk to an IP address", "I don't talk to IP addresses.", "Consider yourself lucky that I am talking to an IP address. .... I wonder if you will ever learn about wikilinks.", "Count yourself very luck that I am replying: no explanation of why you are having to violate my IP address policy; horrible page widening and no link to the deleted article. I am not surprised that your article triggered what has happened: no lede, no link back to the parent and totally unreferenced.".
- As for complaints, "have seen your tone in response to many other contributors, and it is obvious that you think highly of your own assessments, even as other administrators disagree. Many of your responses are rather condescending, to the point of being quite rude and unprofessional.", "lso somebody who is a admin should be more nurturing and less condescending.", "I'm not too thrilled that you choose to start this conversation by hurling insults. That's so clearly against WP principles that I'm astonished that you have any kind of administrative capacity." That's from a quick ten minute search on a few terms. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 22:32, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Ritchie333: Out of 18.000+ actions? Not a bad score, considering he's only human. I bet you never make mistakes... Kleuske (talk) 12:22, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- Then we have "There was absolutely no need to e-mail me and the matter is not the slightest bit urgent. If you don't know what has happened, I suggest you learn to read edit histories and logs .... ", "Please learn wikilinks and to not use br" (in response to "Thank you very much for your help" after another admin restored an article speedied by RHaworth), "Do you know the difference between an encyclopedia and a social networking site? Go away to FaceBook.", "Talk about helping lame ducks. If you really cannot find out how to submit a draft, you should not be here.", "Please read this ", "Since you have been foolhardy enough to bring yourself to my attention, I will say: so far you have done nearly an hundred edits none of which are actually contributing to the encyclopedia.", "do it yourself! Learn to use the tools the MediaWiki software provides", "The singular of criteria is criterion. A person who has been on Wikipedia for 10 years and 3 days ought to know to provide a link when they talk about an article.", ""Not through Google" - what an insult to the MediaWiki software which provides all the clues you need. .... In its original form and as amended above by me there are two links, one red one blue. Did it cross your mind to follow the blue link? Have you thought of looking at your contributions history instead of asking Google?", "Get your facts right.", "Don't be ridiculous. I have already told you to put it at draft:Winning Jah (2). Why is that concept so difficult to understand? Please reply." ..... Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 13:22, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Ritchie333: Nice collection of quotes, but I struggle to find anything really uncivil there. Civility does not imply going along with everything, agreeing with anyone,pleasing everybody and never contradict them or point out the fucking obvious. AGF and CIVIL are not suicide pacts. Kleuske (talk) 10:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- So you think "This article is shit, fuck off" is an appropriate response to a new user's first article? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:18, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Where does he say that? —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 10:30, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- He's never said that exactly (the specific wording I used there comes from Wikipedia:WikiSpeak#S), but in my view the wording he did use has the same effect. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- But that's really why the thread has got no traction: ~everyone knows that we as a community are—rightly or wrongly—relatively tolerant of brusqueness-to-the-point of incivility, as long as heavy work is being done in the course of it. I also see a lot of people—rightly or wrongly—who don't actually care whether spammers and junkoids do have their pages deleted without a by-your-leave—noobs or not! :D On a lighter note, yes, the Wikispeak page is always worth an outing: doesn't get used enough imho. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 11:46, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- He's never said that exactly (the specific wording I used there comes from Wikipedia:WikiSpeak#S), but in my view the wording he did use has the same effect. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Where does he say that? —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 10:30, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- So you think "This article is shit, fuck off" is an appropriate response to a new user's first article? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:18, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Ritchie333: Nice collection of quotes, but I struggle to find anything really uncivil there. Civility does not imply going along with everything, agreeing with anyone,pleasing everybody and never contradict them or point out the fucking obvious. AGF and CIVIL are not suicide pacts. Kleuske (talk) 10:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- Then we have "There was absolutely no need to e-mail me and the matter is not the slightest bit urgent. If you don't know what has happened, I suggest you learn to read edit histories and logs .... ", "Please learn wikilinks and to not use br" (in response to "Thank you very much for your help" after another admin restored an article speedied by RHaworth), "Do you know the difference between an encyclopedia and a social networking site? Go away to FaceBook.", "Talk about helping lame ducks. If you really cannot find out how to submit a draft, you should not be here.", "Please read this ", "Since you have been foolhardy enough to bring yourself to my attention, I will say: so far you have done nearly an hundred edits none of which are actually contributing to the encyclopedia.", "do it yourself! Learn to use the tools the MediaWiki software provides", "The singular of criteria is criterion. A person who has been on Wikipedia for 10 years and 3 days ought to know to provide a link when they talk about an article.", ""Not through Google" - what an insult to the MediaWiki software which provides all the clues you need. .... In its original form and as amended above by me there are two links, one red one blue. Did it cross your mind to follow the blue link? Have you thought of looking at your contributions history instead of asking Google?", "Get your facts right.", "Don't be ridiculous. I have already told you to put it at draft:Winning Jah (2). Why is that concept so difficult to understand? Please reply." ..... Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 13:22, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- "count yourself lucky that I am talking to IP's" and the rest of the diffs are not a 'mistake'. Its called, 'being a massive tool'. A mistake would be 'I did not mean to say/do that'. Not 'I'm going to be completely arrogant and rude in order to deliberately demean you.'. Glad we cleared that up. Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:29, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Kleuske:, how many thousand bitey comments do you want to be provided to answer your "now back it up"? Whatever reasonable number you give could certainly be answered from RHaworth's talk page and contribution histories. Try looking for yourself rather than demanding near-impossible feats from others. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 19:44, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Ritchie333: Out of 18.000+ actions? Not a bad score, considering he's only human. I bet you never make mistakes... Kleuske (talk) 12:22, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- That's your claim. Now back it up. Why this this shitshow still open, BTW? Kleuske (talk) 20:58, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- But, in this case, Bite=Bite. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- Terse!=Bite. Kleuske (talk) 08:00, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
- But having a an admin with a very terse attitude IS a problem. I guess WP:BITE doesn't apply to Haworth. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 13:28, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
...and despite this ANI thread being open, and explaining to Seraphim System why Association Montessori Internationale doesn't meet the criteria for A7 (despite RHaworth deleting it), and when consensus is moving towards the recreated version being salvageable, he goes and unilaterally moves it to draft without telling anyone. I've got a sore head now. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:33, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- From my time at AfC, I think User:RHaworth does a lot of valuable work that is a net benefit to the project. Maybe his talk page responses are a bit curt, but it is also not helpful for admins to take an inherently unrealistic and fantastically optimistic approach to the reality of the backlogs at AfC and NPP. Moving this article to draft space was a sound alternative to deletion in this case - in its current condition sourced only to primary sources it would not have passed AfC anyway.Seraphim System (talk) 21:47, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
- I substantially agree with User:DGG above. To err is human, to be uncivil is not. Unfortunately, WP:CSDs are ripe for adamant SPI's making life miserable for both taggers and deleting admins. A few quite vocal participants in the community expect a perfect score card and are quick to grab the torches and pitchforks. Alas, in human endeavors, perfection isn't possible. In my experience, speedy deletions that are overturned - all with much ballyhoo and sniping - are often deleted through other means and the tendency toward WP:BUREAU marches along. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:03, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think a convincing case has been made that the CSD errors themselves can probably be overlooked and forgiven. Unusually high volume of reviews = correspondingly high volume of mistakes, and as Hammersoft demonstrated above, even a 99.9% rate of accuracy would yield the appearance of relatively many mistakes being made. In spite of this, a substantial case has been made regarding RHaworth's interpersonal communications. Enough to demonstrate a persistant pattern of seriously problematic behavior. On top of that, in a rare display, there's a strong consensus view that that the community does not find his conduct to be acceptable, and is far beyond the levels of incivility that we normally let slide. In my opinion, RHaworth failing to engage here because he "has a life" is in itself indicative of the problem. @RHaworth: I think, in the interest of WP:ADMINACCT, you should heed the community's view that your conduct in communicating has been below the expected standard from an administrator. Just show us that you accept the criticism and assure us that this is something you can and will work to improve on. I think that's all any of us are looking for here. That said, the consensus in this thread would appear to be tantamount to a community condemnation of your conduct (I'm searching for a less poignant term than "condemnation" but a more accurate one isn't coming to me). I don't think this is something you can get away with just ignoring. Swarm ♠ 22:52, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
- I acknowledge that my communicating has been below the expected standard. I accept the criticism and assure you that my communicating is something I will work to improve on. To all my stalkers I say: if you see an example of my failing to come up to standard, please comment - but briefly and preferably not more than a couple of you! — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 11:53, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @RHaworth: Something I do and which you may want to consider is using a keyboard macro program. This will allow you to create some boilerplate, either brief text or detailed responses which you can insert using a mnemonic and customize. I use ProKeys which is an extension for Chrome and opera. With it if I for instance type
autobio crtl-spaceI get:
This, for me lets me give useful, detailed answers even when I am annoyed or just do not feel like writing much. It is also easy to customize your responses by chaining multiple canned texts, making some fill-in-the-blank, or just editing the canned text to make it fit. (Incidentally, the block quote was formatted bySince you have stated here that you are the subject of this article you should become familiar with out conflict of interest policy. Also, please note that Wikipedia strongly discourages writing autobiographies. Please read the material I have blue linked above it goes into our policies and guidelines in detail. I realize that it looks like a lot of reading but attempting to write a Wikipedia article, particularly about yourself, is not likely to be a satisfying experience without understanding how Wikipedia works.
highlight text crtl-x blockquote crtl-spaceand this parenthetical was done similarly.)Jbh Talk 14:19, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- @RHaworth: Something I do and which you may want to consider is using a keyboard macro program. This will allow you to create some boilerplate, either brief text or detailed responses which you can insert using a mnemonic and customize. I use ProKeys which is an extension for Chrome and opera. With it if I for instance type
- @Jbhunley: "Kindly have the decency to wait until someone who has not a technical bone in their body comes along to say that's really rather absolutely bloody clever indeed" ;) —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 17:29, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
- RHaworth has given what I would consider to be a very reasonable response to the community's objections to his behavior. This is a big step in the right direction. If anyone wants to take this further, I will give them the opportunity, but I think this thread has achieved as much as it can, most likely, and will be considering closing it if no one raises any objections. In sum, we have a documented community consensus that RHaworth's conduct has been problematic, and we have RHaworth acknowledging it and providing a pledge to resolve the complaint voluntarily. This is more than most threads here achieve. Swarm ♠ 00:17, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- I concur with closing this. This has been a more civil thread than those of this kind usually are, and that's a credit to those involved. WP:BITE is a very tiring policy to comply with, and despite best efforts these things happen. The more work we can do on templating kind canned responces, the less Wikipedia will be a compassion drain. TheDragonFire (talk) 09:06, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- Closing=thirded. But, regarding your summation, Swarm, can the close be mindful to specify that the community consensus is that RH's communication has been found overly-robust (!!!), but that there was no consensus as to their deletion / error rate. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap shit room 10:10, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
- Without any edit summary, RH reverted two categories I nominated per WP:DENY. You can find my inquiry at his talk page here[257]. I just made that post minutes ago. A whole category tree (without substantial edits by other editors) has been created by a banned User. Why doesn't WP:DENY apply. I await his answer....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:54, 15 April 2018 (UTC)