위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive737
Wikipedia:사용자:액체 셀의 편집 중단
USS Oak Hill(LSD-51)에서 이 사용자는 동성애자 '첫키스'에 대한 비협조적이고 부정적인 코멘트를 지속적으로 삽입하고 있다.나는 이전에 그것들을 되돌렸지만, 그냥 되돌려야 하는지 아니면 다른 조치를 취해야 하는지 물어봐야겠다고 생각했다.칼라베1992 01:49, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이때 나는 리퀴드 세포에게 3반전 규칙에 대해 조언하고 기사 토크 페이지에서 그 문제에 대해 토론하도록 초대했다.이것은 아마도 WP의 문제일 것이다.이 게시판이 아닌 NEW(배틀링 알림판 편집.—C.Fred (대화) 01:58, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 당연하지, 비록 그가 IP, 72.218.244.248 (토크 · 기여)를 양말로서 사용하고 있었던 것으로 보이긴 했지만.계속한다, 게시판에 갖다 놓을게.칼라베1992 02:03, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 사실, 그래, 이건 일반적인 반달리즘이 아니니까.칼라베1992 02:09, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- "게이는 역겹다"는 것이 나에게는 꽤 일반적인 파괴 행위처럼 보인다.모든 공공 기물 파손 행위가 터무니없는 인물은 아니다.–로셀레스 (토크 ⋅ 기여) 02:34, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 편집자는 게이들이 역겹다고 말하지 않았다"고 말했다.여기서 문제는 편집-경합과 편집의 출처가 부족하다는 것이다.편집된 내용 중 어떤 것도 공공 기물 파손에 대한 좁은 정의에 맞지 않는데, 사실 그것은 나에게 선의로 보이지만 잘못된 편집으로 보인다.찰리처방고 (연락) 02:40, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 코멘트는 출처가 없으니 가봐야죠. P.S.획일적인 키스를 한 두 마리의 개코원숭이 사진이 뜨겁다.[1] :) 【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→】—준비 미기일 코멘트 추가 02:43, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)
- 위키백과의 여성 편집자들에 대한 적대적인 태도에 기여한다고 생각하기 때문에, 보통 나는 그러한 종류의 논평이 응답의 존엄성을 주는 것을 좋아하지 않지만, 그것은 정말 멋진 사진이다.시각적으로 비슷한 타임스퀘어 V-J데이가 그랬던 것처럼 상징적으로 자리 잡을 수 있을지 궁금하다.하지만 주제에서 벗어난.–로셀레스 (토크 ⋅ 기여) 03:04, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 사실 키스만큼 길들여져 있다.셀스가 무심코 알려줘서 고맙다고 말하고 싶어:) 좀 더 침울한 어조로 셀스는 그것이 독창적인 연구라는 것을 인정하고, 아마도 OR이 허용되지 않는다는 것을 모르고 있었던 것 같다.← 베이스볼 버그스카르티크What's up, Doc?→03:15, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 글쎄, 그것이 독창적인 연구라는 것을 인정하는 것은 싸움의 절반에 지나지 않는다 - 그는 여전히 그것이 믿을 만한 출처에 나타나지 않는다는 것은 출처가 편향되어 있다는 것을 의미하며 우리가 그를 "침묵하게" 하려고 한다는 것을 의미한다고 주장하고 있다.그 구간은 아직 문을 닫으면 안 된다.나는 내 감시 목록에 그 페이지를 가지고 있고 여기서 더 많은 발전을 가져올 것이다.–로셀레스 (토크 talk 기여) 03:21, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- "신뢰할 수 있는" 원천들이 실제로 편향되어 있다면, 우리가 그것에 대해 할 수 있는 것은 아무것도 없다.그러나 정말로 그 입맞춤에 대해 의미심장한 불평이 있었다면 어떤 믿을 만하지만 보수적인 성향의 출판물이 그것을 눈치챘을 것이라고 나는 생각할 것이다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→03:38, 2012년 1월 25일(UTC)】[
- 위와 같이 하십시오.칼라베1992 03:39, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 크리스마스 바로 전이었으므로 그들은 아마도 크리스마스에 전쟁에 대해 너무 걱정했을 것이다.게다가 그런 일을 맡고 있는 많은 사람들이 노인이나 적어도 남성인 것 같고 아마 이 실에서 아까 당신이 표현했던 비슷한 정서를 공유했을 것이다.I.E. 아담과 스티브가 아니라 헬렌과 이브였기 때문에 (40번 비디오를 본 후) 외면해도 괜찮다....좀 더 심각한 OT 노트에 대해서는, 공공 도메인이나 그 밖의 무료 이미지가 기사에 유용할 것이며, 이용 가능할 수도 있다.그리고 나는 단지 일반적으로 같은 정서를 말하는 것이 아니다.Nil Einne (대화) 06:49, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)
- "신뢰할 수 있는" 원천들이 실제로 편향되어 있다면, 우리가 그것에 대해 할 수 있는 것은 아무것도 없다.그러나 정말로 그 입맞춤에 대해 의미심장한 불평이 있었다면 어떤 믿을 만하지만 보수적인 성향의 출판물이 그것을 눈치챘을 것이라고 나는 생각할 것이다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→03:38, 2012년 1월 25일(UTC)】[
- 글쎄, 그것이 독창적인 연구라는 것을 인정하는 것은 싸움의 절반에 지나지 않는다 - 그는 여전히 그것이 믿을 만한 출처에 나타나지 않는다는 것은 출처가 편향되어 있다는 것을 의미하며 우리가 그를 "침묵하게" 하려고 한다는 것을 의미한다고 주장하고 있다.그 구간은 아직 문을 닫으면 안 된다.나는 내 감시 목록에 그 페이지를 가지고 있고 여기서 더 많은 발전을 가져올 것이다.–로셀레스 (토크 talk 기여) 03:21, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 사실 키스만큼 길들여져 있다.셀스가 무심코 알려줘서 고맙다고 말하고 싶어:) 좀 더 침울한 어조로 셀스는 그것이 독창적인 연구라는 것을 인정하고, 아마도 OR이 허용되지 않는다는 것을 모르고 있었던 것 같다.← 베이스볼 버그스카르티크What's up, Doc?→03:15, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과의 여성 편집자들에 대한 적대적인 태도에 기여한다고 생각하기 때문에, 보통 나는 그러한 종류의 논평이 응답의 존엄성을 주는 것을 좋아하지 않지만, 그것은 정말 멋진 사진이다.시각적으로 비슷한 타임스퀘어 V-J데이가 그랬던 것처럼 상징적으로 자리 잡을 수 있을지 궁금하다.하지만 주제에서 벗어난.–로셀레스 (토크 ⋅ 기여) 03:04, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 코멘트는 출처가 없으니 가봐야죠. P.S.획일적인 키스를 한 두 마리의 개코원숭이 사진이 뜨겁다.[1] :) 【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→】—준비 미기일 코멘트 추가 02:43, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)
- 편집자는 게이들이 역겹다고 말하지 않았다"고 말했다.여기서 문제는 편집-경합과 편집의 출처가 부족하다는 것이다.편집된 내용 중 어떤 것도 공공 기물 파손에 대한 좁은 정의에 맞지 않는데, 사실 그것은 나에게 선의로 보이지만 잘못된 편집으로 보인다.찰리처방고 (연락) 02:40, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- "게이는 역겹다"는 것이 나에게는 꽤 일반적인 파괴 행위처럼 보인다.모든 공공 기물 파손 행위가 터무니없는 인물은 아니다.–로셀레스 (토크 ⋅ 기여) 02:34, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 사실, 그래, 이건 일반적인 반달리즘이 아니니까.칼라베1992 02:09, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
반달리화 페이지 - 하이데라바드,_인도
누군가가 저속한 이미지로 리디렉션하기 위해 최상위 DIV를 추가했다.불행히도 그것은 최근 역사에서 나타나지 않았다.그래서 치울 수가 없었다.
Hyderabad(대화 기록 보호 링크 삭제 로그 보기 편집)를 확인하십시오.
- 위의 몇 개의 나사산을 보십시오.CharlieEcho Tango (연락처) 07:57, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
최근에 이런 일이 몇 건 있었는데, 그 중에는 우리를 계속 AN/I로 데려간 것도 있었다.이것이 모두 한 편집자/전 편집자의 작품인가, 만일 그렇다면 누구인가?S.G.(GH) 11:54, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
사용자:SlipperySalmon 의심스러운 편집
SliffingSalmon은 파괴적인 편집자인가?
[2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]
Ma®usBritish 04:39, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 음, 그들의 물건은 꽤 이상해, 그건 확실해.Calabe1992 04:43, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 모든 것이 완전히 헛소리처럼 보인다.특히 테너 1호.리필하는 것도 아무것도 없어Ma®usBritish 04:46, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
워워 워워무슨 수를 쓰십니까?I'M THE the Slikey Salmon and THE MY Waters 04:53, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC) — SlikySalmon이 추가한 사전 서명되지 않은 논평(대화 • 기여)
- 너의 연설 페이지는 매우 이상하다.칼라베1992 04:55, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 좋아 - 이 남자는 변명이 필요해.그는 그냥 반달계정일 뿐이다.Ma®usBritish 04:55, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
내가 지우고 Elen --Guerillero My Talk 05:01, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답에 의해 차단됨
- 좋아! 물에서 물고기를 꺼내면 어떻게 되는지 다 알잖아.건배, Ma®usBritish 05:03, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나도 양말을 감지했지만, 포르노로 리디렉션된 이미지와 위의 이슈와 관련된 동일인이라고 의심했다.두 명의 사용자가 동시에 쓸모없는 html을 사용하는 것이 이상해 보인다.WP 중 하나였다.DUK 또는 WP:딕. 아니면 둘 다.Ma®usBritish 05:07, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- ^^Win. Calabe1992 05:08, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 아까 포르노 이미지에서 보여줬던 게 아닐까.칼라베1992 05:10, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- ^^Win. Calabe1992 05:08, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나도 양말을 감지했지만, 포르노로 리디렉션된 이미지와 위의 이슈와 관련된 동일인이라고 의심했다.두 명의 사용자가 동시에 쓸모없는 html을 사용하는 것이 이상해 보인다.WP 중 하나였다.DUK 또는 WP:딕. 아니면 둘 다.Ma®usBritish 05:07, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
LustyRoars(토크·캐스터) 등의 양말로 확인됨.이전에 차단된 IP는 이제 이러한 계정의 장기 남용으로 다시 잠금화되었다 - Alison❤ 05:10, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이 Coolkidxc는 위의 이전 호와 관련이 있을 수 있다.Ma®usBritish 05:14, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
익명 IP: 70.42.29.3
이 IP에서 편집한 내용은 등록된 사용자로만 제한하십시오.원래는 공개 대리인으로 차단되었다.나중에 그것은 차단되지 않고 공개 대리인으로 확인되었다.사용자는 익명으로 게시하려는 것이 아니며 위키백과 계정에 로그인할 수 없다고 주장한다.
문제는 이 IP가 파괴적인 편집을 해왔다는 것이다.예를 들어, iCloud에서 사용자는 루머의 출처를 제외한 정보를 사실로서 계속 게시한다.나는 이미 두 번이나 정보를 삭제했고 편집 요약에 백과사전 정보는 럼모어가 아닌 사실에 근거해야 한다고 표시했다.사용자가 같은 정보를 계속 올리고 있다.
또한 사용자는 정보 삭제 및 헛소리 작성과 같은 다른 기사에서 업무 중단을 초래하는 편집을 수행했다.
일부 편집만 파괴적이어서 한 명 이상의 사람들이 다른 목적으로 그 IP에서 위키피디아를 편집하고 있는 것 같아 계정을 수정해 줄 것을 요청한다.편집된 내용은 요약이 부족하다.
CharlesDayton 16:05, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 편집자가 통지함.S.G.(GH) 16:11, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- 이것은 Zscaler에 의해 운영되는 폐쇄적인 대리인이기 때문에 그것은 하나의 IP로 나타나는 근거리 네트워크의 여러 개인이 될 것이다.내가 할 수 있는 것은 학교 블록에 상당하는 것이다. 계정을 가진 편집자는 로그인할 수 있지만 익명 편집은 금지되어 있다.큰 민간 회사인데, 어차피 직원들은 회사의 $캐나다어로 위키피디아를 편집(그리고 간헐적으로 파괴)해서는 안 될 것이다. --엘렌 더 로드즈 (대화) 16:57, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 고마워. CharlesDayton 17:23, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
사용자 차단 해제:키코4564
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.후속 코멘트는 새로운 섹션으로 작성되어야 한다. 도달한 결론의 요약은 다음과 같다.
- 이 논의에서 나온 대략적인 합의는 키코4564의 차단을 해제하는 데 찬성하는 것으로 보이며, 그가 사용한 양말을 공개하고 다른 곳에서 건설적으로 편집했음을 증명했기 때문에, 나는 WP:ROP에 의해 차단을 해제하려고 한다. 그러나, 한 마디 주의할 점은, 키코: 당신의 과거로 미루어 보아, 당신의 편집은 면밀히 조사되어야 하며, 그리고 당신이 원인일 수 있어야 한다는 것이다.어떤 피해를 입더라도, 새로운 블록이 신속하게 발행될 것이다.제발, 지역사회가 당신에게 제공하는 기회를 낭비하지 마십시오. 살비오 18Let's talk about it!:44, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
키코4564는 2010년부터 봉쇄됐다.WP 아래:제안 나는 그에게 내가 지역사회 토론을 위해 제기할 차단되지 않은 요청에 대한 성명서를 작성하라고 부탁했다.그는 다음과 같은 진술로 차단을 해제할 것을 요구하고 있다.
| “ | 내가 위키피디아에 사들인 것의 유치한 악의적인 해악에 대해 미안하다.나는 내가 사회공학적으로 2주간의 블록에서 벗어나게 한 것이 그만큼 잘못되었다는 것을 이해한다.하지만, 나의 끔찍한 과거를 뒤로하고, 나는 재활을 해서 그의 마지막 끈을 주어진다면 괜찮은 편집자가 될 수 있는 것으로 성숙했다.나의 나쁜 양말장난의 이력과 관련하여, 나는 심지어 명목상으로 허용된 대체 계좌의 사용을 중단하는데 동의할 것이다. 이것은 자선적인 양말장난으로도 알려져 있다.그래 나는 내 행동에 의해 낭비되는 사람들의 시간을 돌이켜보면 악의적인 것으로 본다. 그래 나는 앞으로 나아가고 건설적인 방향으로 나아갈 수 있다.나는 확실한 증거를 제시했고 내가 차단되지 않은 것에 대한 모든 사람들의 건전한 냉소를 충분히 이해했다.나는 또한 위키미디어 IRC 채널과 같은 여러 곳에서 나의 미숙함에 대해 사과한다.나는 이미 1년(1년)을 쉬지 않고 오래 기다렸다.내 마지막 한 가닥이 주어진다면, 나는 그 밧줄에 매달릴 만큼 어리석고 철없지는 않을 것이다.나는 대신 건설적으로 기여하고 성숙하게 행동할 것이며, 내가 지시받은 것은 무엇이든 준수할 것이다.M D 포터.댓글 있어?2012년 1월 22일 21시 5분 (UTC)[하라 | ” |
나는 그 차단 해제안에 대해 의견이 없다.나는 단지 여기에 그 요청을 게시하는 표준 오퍼를 제정하고 있을 뿐이다.나는 차단 해제 작업이 수행되어야 하는지 여부에 대한 커뮤니티의 의견을 요청하고 있다.안녕, 시릭 (질문이나 코멘트?) 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC) 17:08[
- 이것이 WP에서 더 나은가?A? 이건 사건이 아니고 WP:게시판은 보관하는 것이 더 느려서, 사람들에게 더 많은 의견을 제시할 시간을 준다.— 212.137.36.236 (대화) 17:22, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[에 의해 추가된 이전의 부호 없는 논평
- 비관리자는 일반적으로 잠재적인 장애물에 대해 논의할 수 있다.AN은 보통 관리자 전용 발표(talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:05, 2012년 1월 24일(UTC)[]에 예약되어 있다
- 내가 주목한 것은 그런 목적으로 유보된 것이 아니다… --SerkOfVulcan (대화) 15:21, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 비관리자는 일반적으로 잠재적인 장애물에 대해 논의할 수 있다.AN은 보통 관리자 전용 발표(talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:05, 2012년 1월 24일(UTC)[]에 예약되어 있다
- 지난 일은 잊어버리자.어쨌든 그들은 묶여 있을 거야.드레이미스 (토크) 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC) 19:40[
- 반대: 이것은 단지 키코4564에 의해 짓밟힌 것이다.그는 과거에 정확히 같은 일을 했고 그것은 잘 끝나지 않았다.이 모든 것은 그에게 큰 게임일 뿐이다. PeterSymonds (토크) 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC) 19:43[
- 지지- 왜?그들이 차단된 지 1년이 넘었고, 나는 그 모든 시간 동안 잘못된 행동의 증거가 없고, 건설적으로 행동하려고 했다는 약간의 증거가 있다고 본다. 그리고 만약 차단되지 않는다면, 키코4564는 분명히 그들이 받게 될 정밀 조사로 많은 해를 끼칠 수 있을 것 같지 않다.Reyk 20:20, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 댓글을 달다.우리는 그 양말 리스트 없이 양말을 쏜 사람을 차단할 수 없다 - 그리고 완전히 공개하는 것은 그 막힌 편집자 부분에 대한 선의를 보여주는 정말 좋은 방법이다.나는 그 요청을 사용자 토크 페이지에서 했다.UltraExactZZ Said ~ 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC) :26 did did [응답
- 댓글-- 그들은 이제 그들의 토크 페이지에서 그렇게 했다.Reyk 20:55, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 반대 - 기고문을 살펴본 결과, 기사에 대한 실질적인 편집이 많지 않다; 키코의 기여도는 주로 사용자 대화 페이지에 경고 템플릿을 추가하고, 이중 리디렉션을 수정하며, 그러한 성격의 사소한 항목들로 구성되어 있다.요컨대, 나는 이 사용자가 차단되기 전에 그 프로젝트에 큰 도움이 되었음을 보여줄 확실한 기여 이력이 보이지 않는다.게다가, 한 사람이 만든 침대에 누워야 한다 - 키코가 단순히 자신의 행동을 계속하기 위해 한 번 블록을 벗어나고자 과거에 여러 번 자신의 블록을 들어올리거나 줄일 것을 요청했던 것을 고려하면, 나는 또한 최근의 블록 없는 진술이 더 이상 릴리아라고 믿기 어렵다.다른 어떤 것보다도 비열하거나 믿을 수 있다.MSJapan (대화) 21:20, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 질문 사용자가 다른 WM 프로젝트에서 편집한 적이 있는가? 있다면 무엇이라는 이름으로 편집했는가?다른 곳에서 좋은 편집을 하는 것은 완화적인 요인이다.또한 양말 리스트가 필요할 것이라는 위의 진술에 동의하라.Nformationo 21:50, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 지원 키코가 다시 편집을 시작할 수 있도록 허용하는 것은 어떤 해로움인가?아무 것도 없어요.만약 그가 문제를 일으킨다면, 우리는 쉽게 다시 잠글 수 있다.나는 알 수 없는 사용자 이름으로 편집하는 것보다, 알려진 사용자 이름으로 편집하는 개혁적인 문제 해결사를 갖고 싶다.그가 원한다면, 그는 단순히 새로운 계정을 만들 수 있고 그것이 어떤 종류의 조사를 야기하지 않는 한 아무도 더 잘 알지 못할 것이다.만약 그가 문제를 일으켰다면, 수사 결과를 얻지 못한 비밀 계좌로, 우리는 그것을 아무런 역사도 없는 새로운 계좌로 취급하고 있을 것이다.알려진 계정을 사용함으로써 우리는 수사의 노력을 절약할 수 있고 만약 그가 문제를 일으킨다면, 우리는 역사를 알고 그것에 더 잘 대응할 수 있다.---Balloonman 21:55, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- PS 나는 두번째 기회를 믿는다.그가 개혁했다면 잊지 못할 좋은 도덕적 교훈이자 윤리적 교훈이다.만약 그가 지하에 들어간다면(예: 새로운 비밀계좌를 개설하는 것) 그것은 어떤 교훈을 주는가?그가 자신을 증명하도록 내버려 두어라.또한, 누군가 나서서 차단을 풀 때가 되었다고 생각하는데, 여기서 나의 !투표로 미루어 보아서는 내가 그렇게 하는 것은 적절하지 않을 것 같다.---발룬맨 16:49, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC]
- Balloonman 지원.무기한 블록은 무한정 필요한 것이 아니며, 우리는 일반적으로 이런 상황에서, 특히 그들이 적절하게 편집하고 있는지 확인하기 위해 그들의 작업을 지켜볼 수 있기 때문에, 기꺼이 차단해제해야 한다.최악의 경우 WP:ROP. Nytend (토크) 03:03, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[]을 시행하는 것이다
- 지지 - 그 블록과 결과물인 양말 퍼피트리 이후 1년이 지났고 그가 기여할 만한 성숙함을 가지고 있다고 믿을 이유가 있다.나는 Balloonman의 요약에 동의한다; 만약 그가 어떤 해를 끼친다면, 우리는 즉시 다시 잠글 수 있다.그에게 한 번 더 기회를 줘도 나쁠 것이 없다.—Dark 14:02, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 지원 - 키코가 요청한 로프를 가지고 무엇을 하는지 알 수 있을 것이다. --SerkOfVulcan (대화) 15:21, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
사용자:편집자에 대한 셀러리의 공격.
전에 이런 얘기를 꺼냈는지는 모르겠지만, 누군가 셀러리를 봐야 할 것 같아.나는 셀러리가 유저에 대한 태도를 알고 있었다.전에 미첼수아레스가 그랬지만 셀러리는 여기, 여기, 심지어 여기서도 볼 수 있는 것처럼 이 사용자를 공격하기 시작했다.셀러리가 설명해야 할 게 좀 있다.펄터시!xmcuvg2MH 23:54, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 첫번째는 노골적인 법적 위협이며 따라서 WP를 위반하는 것이다.NLT 프린세스 더피 (토크) 00:00, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 해당 편집자는 이 문제와 관련된 " 창백한" 인신공격 때문에 이전에 차단된 적이 있다는 점에 유의하십시오.신화 페이지88 (토크) 00:04, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
나는 다른 사람들이 Fluttershy와 WETA 기사와 관련된 다른 편집자들이 백과사전을 개선하는 데 더 관심이 있는지 아니면 흑인들을 위한 적대적인 환경을 만드는 방법으로 트롤링하는 것에 더 관심이 있는지 스스로 결정하기를 바란다.셀러리(토크) 00:19, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 당신이 링크한 편집은 단순한 유지보수에 불과했고, 거기서 아무런 논란도 없었다.내가 남긴 메세지를 확인해달라고 부탁하고 싶다. 왜 위키피디아가 검열되지 않았는지, 그리고 당신(여기서 악의는 없음)이 페이지에 대한 유효한 사례가 없는지 자세히 설명해주시오.더피 공주 (토크) 00:21, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- 나도 플리터쉬가 트롤 그룹 "BWC"와 "NCF"와 연관되어 있는 해당 페이지를 편집하는 것에 대해 걱정한다. 그가 여기서도 이런 게임을 하지 않고 있는지 어떻게 알 수 있을까?사용자:SweetieBelleMLP 13:52, 2012년 1월 25일(UTC)[
- 나는 더피 공주를 모았고 나는 다른 유머 감각을 가지고 있다.셀러리(토크) 00:59, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 편집 요약이 특히 유익하다는 것을 알았다.공주 Derpy의 사용자 페이지 건설과 함께, 공격 사이트:en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Princess_Derpy&diff=next&oldid=472888721이 포함한(노트 잘:편집 공주 Derpy의 페이지 대부분에 대해 확립된 맬웨어 사이트에 투명한 링크를 놓고;기를 본후에 하지만"백"버튼 아무것도 클릭하여모자 diff는 당신의 컴퓨터에 악성코드를 감염시킬 수 있다. 이 무리들은 백과사전을 개선하는 데 관심이 있는가, 아니면 프로젝트를 공격하는 데 관심이 있는가?)셀러리(토크) 00:33, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 더피 공주의 사용자 페이지는 악성코드에 연결되며, 추가 보너스를 위해 충격 이미지와 연결된 가짜 유어 have new-messages 바를 사용한다.이것, 이것 그리고 이것은 완전히 부적절하다.지금 당장 없애 버려라.일주일 전에 그들의 계정을 만든 사람으로부터, 그들의 첫 번째 편집은 그들의 사용자 페이지를 바보로 만드는 것이었다; 나는 이 편집자가 백과사전을 향상시키기 위해 여기 있다고 생각하지 않는다.부메랑 시간인가? 보브레이너(토크) 01:01, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- 더피 공주는 계정을 만든 지 일주일 만에 정책에 빠르게 능숙해 보인다.나는 그 사용자가 바보라고 말하는 것이 아니라, 누군가가 그것을 조사할 필요가 있다.펄터시!xmcuvg2MH 01:07, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
사용자를 차단한 경우:Princess_Derpy의 업무 중단 편집 기능.그의 사용자 페이지에 따르면 편집자의 의도는 위키피디아에 기여하는 것이 아니라 적대적인 협력 환경을 조성하는 데 있다.내 블록 근거를 더 잘 이해하고 싶은 분들을 위해 편집 이력을 라이브로 남겨두겠지만, 그의 사용자 페이지도 비웠다.Rklawton (대화) 01:07, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- 오, 안돼! 왜냐하면 그들은 완전히 합법적인 것 같았거든. 포찬문화에 관심을 가지고 말이야.[11] 부!Doc talk 01:10, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)
- 차단 관리자가 신경 쓰지 않았으면 좋겠는데, 나는 해당 사용자 페이지를 삭제했어.가짜 새 메시지 바를 통해 충격 이미지나 부적절한 이미지로 연결되는 것을 확인할 수 있으며, 나는 그것이 계속 놓여있고 방문객들에게 잠재적으로 지장을 줄 수 있는 어떠한 이유도 발견할 수 없다.스노놀프 01:20, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이의가 없다.그 문제를 검토해 줘서 고마워.무심코 찾아온 사람이 편집 이력을 우연히 발견하지 못할 것 같아 페이지를 비워 두었다.관리자가 여전히 문제를 확인하기 위해 삭제 페이지를 검토할 수 있기 때문에 당신의 접근 방식도 효과가 있다.Rklawton (대화) 01:23, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- PD가 차단 해제를 요청하고 있다.나는 그 요청에 대한 반대 의견을 게시할 것이지만, 다른 관리자들에게 검토하도록 맡기겠다.그러나 이 사용자의 차단을 해제하는 것에 강력히 반대한다는 점에 유의하십시오.Rklawton (대화) 01:43, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- PD님이 차단을 해제해 달라고 두 번째 요청을 하고 있다.블록 당시 사용자 페이지의 상태는 완전히 부적절했으며 사용자는 단순히 그래픽 이미지로 연결되는 링크를 더 많은 사람이 클릭하도록 애원하고 있다.Rklawton (대화) 02:26, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- 한편, 목장에서 셀러리는 이전에 닐라와 관련된 인신공격에 대해 경고를 받은 적이 있다.지난번에 이틀 동안 그를 차단했을 때, 그것은 충분히 길지 않았다. 나는 그가 TPARIS에 대한 불명예스러운 공격을 한 것에 대해 지금 생각한다[12].이번에는 마이클수아레스를 따라다니며 그가 올린 글에 대해 혹독한 추적을 올린 것에 대해, 나는 2주 동안 차단했다.아마도 결국 그는 위키피디아가 이 조직에 관한 기사를 가져야 한다는 관점이 흑인들을 괴롭히는 것과 같지 않다는 것을 깨닫게 될 것이다.도로의 엘렌 (대화) 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC 01:35,
- 재미있군, 목록에 추가할 또 다른 닐라 토론.Calabe1992 01:44, 2012년 1월 25일(UTC)
- 사용자:러버포니는 더피 공주의 확인된 양말로서 외설적이다. -- 파카란 04:22, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 무슨 말인지 모르겠는데, 네가 무슨 말을 하든 난 아무 관련이 없어./co/사슬의 링크와 위키 편집자로서의 내 과거 때문에 여기에 왔다.사용자:SweetieBelleMLP 18:32, 2012년 1월 25일(UTC)[
- 위키백과 사용자들이 위키 사용법을 배울 수 있는 유일한 장소 사용자인 것처럼 행동하는 것을 그만둘 수 있을까?위와 같이 스위티벨MLP가 말했듯이, 위키리아와 같은 곳에서 새로운 사용자들이 올 수 있다.Sockpuppetry에 대해 계속 비난하고 싶은 사람이 있다면 WP:SPI는 저쪽으로. --Michaeldsuarez (토크) 19:13, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
백 인 포커스
이 양말뿌리개 같은 건 부차적인 문제야.여기서 논의해야 할 것은 셀러리의 위협(아마도 법적 위협)과 다른 사용자에 대한 극단적인 인신공격이다.여기서 조치를 취해야 한다.문제는 어떤 조치를 취해야 하는가이다.실버스렌C 16:24, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&page=User%3ASelery – 추가 조치가 필요하지 않다.괴롭힘을 당한 기분도 아니고, 다른 사용자가 나를 대신해 AN/I 스레드를 시작할 필요도 없다. --Michaeldsuarez (토크) 19:08, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
사용자: Dream Focus 차단됨
| 이만 끝내자, 응? 1: 드림포커스의 블록을 단축하자는 의견 일치가 없다. 2: 비록 그것에 대한 약간의 지지는 있지만, 그 블록을 변명의 장으로 확장하려는 합의는 없다. 3. 드림 포커스가 수사학을 줄여야 한다는 데는 꽤 분명한 공감대가 있다.분명히 유머러스하게 의도된 과장이라도("문명은 망했다!")는 오해를 받을 수 있는데, 특히 WP:B에서는 더욱 그렇다.ATILE이 되기 쉬운 포용주의-vs-deletionism의 무대. 4. 농담으로 만들어지더라도 "악의 삭제론자"에 대한 게시물이 더 이상 게시될 경우, 아마도 드림포커스가 더 오랜 기간 동안 차단될 것이며, 왜 과장이 비파괴적인지 이해한다는 전제하에 무기한 차단 조치가 해제될 가능성이 있다. 5. 일반적으로 편집자에게 어떤 것을 차단하기 전에 잘라내라는 노골적인 경고를 하는 것이 가장 좋다.이를 경고로 간주하자. 28바이트 (대화) 15:06, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
WP:B를 위해 드림 포커스를 일주일 동안 차단했다.ATLEField 실행, 특히 [16] 및 [17].내가 그에게 보낸 상세한 전갈은 여기에 있다.나는 지역사회의 검토를 위해 내 블록을 제출하고 있으며, 블록을 단축하거나 뒤집기 위한 합의가 이루어진다면 반대하지 않을 것이다.Jclemens (대화) 10:05, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 블럭이야, 비록 내가 그것이 같은 목적을 달성할 것이라고 생각했기 때문에 2, 3일로 단축되는 것에 반대하지는 않을 것이다.위키피디아는 공동의 편집 환경으로 되어 있다; 짜증을 내고 편집자들을 "불합치주의자"와 "삭제주의자"와 같은 수집품으로 분리하는 것은 이 목표를 더 나아가는 데 아무런 도움이 되지 않는다.DF 게시글의 감성적인 어조는 객관적으로 편집이 불가능할 정도로 이슈에 애착을 갖고 있음을 보여준다.특정 편집자에게 향하지 않더라도 인신공격에 의지할 변명은 없다.때때로 상황은 당신이 WP에서 이상적이라고 생각하는 방식으로 진행되지 않는다 - 그렇게 되면 당신은 수동적인 공격적인 토크 포스트를 만들기 보다는 다른 곳에서 당신의 에너지를 쏟는다.NformationoTalk 10:31, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 꿈은 분명히 템플릿의 삭제에 분노를 품고 있는 것처럼 보인다; 그 블록은 더 이상의 혼란을 막기 위한 예방책이다.그 블록이 그가 프로젝트 내에서 자신의 역할을 재평가하기에 적절한 시간이기를 바란다.—Dark 10:34, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- "삭제주의자들의 악랄한 무리" 수사 때문에 그를 막기에는 좀 많은 것 같다.ARS 템플릿에 대한 전체 논쟁을 감안할 때, 삭제 후 소란을 예상해야 할 것이다.28바이트 (대화) 10:35, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 블록이 단지 하나의 논평이 아니라 장기적인 전쟁터 행위에 대한 것이라고 확신한다.—Dark 10:39, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 음, 그들의 토크 페이지 역사를 다시 살펴보는 동안, 나는 그들이 "삭제주의자"를 악으로 매도하는 것을 그만두기로 동의할 때까지 기꺼이 변명을 지지할 것이다.정말, 말도 안 돼.WP:AGF는 협상 가능한 지침이 아니라 우리의 한 축이 되어야 하지만, 이 사용자는 WP가 서투르게 소싱된 콘텐츠를 배제해야 한다고 생각하는 사람들이 악하다고 가정하여 근본적으로 작업해 왔다.그것은 사람들이 위키에 대해 어떻게 보는가에 대한 차이에 이르지만, 결코 악이 방정식에 들어가지 않는다.28bytes, 만약 이것이 템플릿 논쟁 후에 격리되었다면 그것은 하나의 문제가 될 것이다. 그러나 이 사용자는 그 전에 악의적인 용어를 사용했다.그것은 완전히 받아들일 수 없고 솔직히 조금 강박적이고 소름끼치는 일이다.NformationoTalk 10:42, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 음, 이런 편집 요약을 가지고는 너무 만화적이고 지나치게 과장된 것처럼 보여서 내가 너무 심각하게 받아들이기 힘들 것 같아.28바이트 (대화) 10:58, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- WP:AGF는 WP:5P가 아니었고, 결코, 바라건대, 결코 그렇지 않을 것이다.사람들이 어떻게 생각하는지 요구할 수는 없어. 그건 세뇌와 비슷해그것은 추상적인 지침이고, 단지 예의와 사소한 관련이 있을 뿐이다.하지만 AGF는 그 자체로 예의 바르지 않고, 세상이 어떻게 돌아가는지를 나타내지도 않는다.그런데 {{rescue}}이(가) 없어졌다는 점이 흥미롭다.내가 듣기론 SOPA가 현실에서 실패하는 것처럼 들리는데, Wiki는 1800표를 1000만 명의 회원을 위한 합의로 간주하게 되어 기쁘지만, 그것은 그 자체로 여전히 법으로 남아있고, 여기서 인용되고 있는 같은 "AGF" 하에서 운영되는 Wiki Project를 개인의 혐오감이 무시하게 한다.나는 AfD가 누군가가 "삭제"를 지명하도록 허용하지만, "지키"를 시도하기 위해 유지되는 것은 아무것도 없을 때 NPOV를 보지 못한다.ARS는 과거에 좋은 일을 해냈다; 나는 전적으로 그들 편은 아니다. 나는 그들이 종종 명백하게 하찮은 헛소리들을 집어 들곤 한다. 기본적인 구글 검색조차도 신용을 떨어뜨릴 수 있고, AFD는 관련된 모든 사람들이 유리창을 통해 끌려가는 것처럼 된다.벌거벗은..아무도 상처받지 않고 나오지 않는다.꿈은 좀 진정되어야 한다, 나는 그들의 우려를 이해할 수 있다. 비록 그 블록이 거의 역점적으로, 투쟁적으로 보이기는 하지만.여기서 토론으로 행동할 수 없었던 것은 아무것도 없고, 강한 말에 대항하는 권력의 과시처럼, 드림스의 불만을 억압하는 것 같은 것이 더 많이 눈에 들어온다.좋은 블록은 아니지만, 사실, 널리 퍼진 혼란을 막기 위해 필요한 블록이지만, 두 가지 악 중에서 더 나은 것은, 권력이 얼마나 부패했는가를 보여주는 한 예가 될 수 있다.한마디로 똥이 터진다.Ma®usBritish 11:15, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- AGF는 그 자체로 기둥이 아니라 WP이다.Civil is 그리고 그것은 분명히 여기에 적용되며, 또한 5P 페이지에서도 AGF가 예의상 필수적인 부분이라고 언급하고 있다.여기서 그 관련성을 지적하려는 것뿐인데, 위에서 노포메이션이 언급하고 있었던 것 같다. -- 아타마頭 23:35, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- WP:AGF on Wiki는 추상적이거나 자유주의자에 의해 쓰여진다.누구든 AGF의 그 rm을 실생활에 적용하려고 노력한다면, 곧 정신적으로 좋은 사람으로 여겨질 것이다.AGF는 "신뢰"와 같으며, 자유롭게 연장할 수도 있고, 그렇지 않을 수도 있고, 보증될 수도 있다.나는 어떤 편집자들이 우리를 모두 양으로 만들기 위해 종종 AGF에 적용하는 세뇌 방식을 믿지 않는다. 그리고 나는 많은 다른 편집자들이 부분적으로, 전체적으로, AGF를 연장하지 않는다는 것을 공개적으로 인정하는 것을 본다. 왜냐하면 상황은 지침이 아니라 그것을 보증해야 하기 때문이다.이 문제와 관련하여, 나는 DF가 모든 "삭제주의자"에게 AGF를 확장한다고 생각하지 않는다. 왜냐하면 그는 그들의 태도, 예를 들어 IJDLI와 같은 동기가 있다고 느끼기 때문이다.Ma®usBritish 23:44, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 선의가 학계의 큰 부분을 차지한다고 가정하면, 사람들은 아무리 민감하게 반응하더라도 모든 주제에 대해 토론할 때 그러한 예의를 갖춰 행동할 것으로 예상된다.나는 대부분의 시간을 이 거품 속에서 보낸다. 그래서 나는 그렇게 행동하고, 화를 내고, 그리고 그것이 내가 대우받는 것에 익숙해져 있다. 아이디어에 관한 한 어떤 것도 개인적으로 받아들이는 것은 의미가 없다.나는 WP: 그 때 옆에 없었다.AGF는 정책이 되었지만 나는 그것이 그것의 뿌리를 학문적 담론으로 추적한다고 해도 놀라지 않을 것이다.위에 나는 "필러"가 아닌 "정책"을 쓰려고 했다.Nformationo 06:43, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- WP:AGF on Wiki는 추상적이거나 자유주의자에 의해 쓰여진다.누구든 AGF의 그 rm을 실생활에 적용하려고 노력한다면, 곧 정신적으로 좋은 사람으로 여겨질 것이다.AGF는 "신뢰"와 같으며, 자유롭게 연장할 수도 있고, 그렇지 않을 수도 있고, 보증될 수도 있다.나는 어떤 편집자들이 우리를 모두 양으로 만들기 위해 종종 AGF에 적용하는 세뇌 방식을 믿지 않는다. 그리고 나는 많은 다른 편집자들이 부분적으로, 전체적으로, AGF를 연장하지 않는다는 것을 공개적으로 인정하는 것을 본다. 왜냐하면 상황은 지침이 아니라 그것을 보증해야 하기 때문이다.이 문제와 관련하여, 나는 DF가 모든 "삭제주의자"에게 AGF를 확장한다고 생각하지 않는다. 왜냐하면 그는 그들의 태도, 예를 들어 IJDLI와 같은 동기가 있다고 느끼기 때문이다.Ma®usBritish 23:44, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- AGF는 그 자체로 기둥이 아니라 WP이다.Civil is 그리고 그것은 분명히 여기에 적용되며, 또한 5P 페이지에서도 AGF가 예의상 필수적인 부분이라고 언급하고 있다.여기서 그 관련성을 지적하려는 것뿐인데, 위에서 노포메이션이 언급하고 있었던 것 같다. -- 아타마頭 23:35, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 사용자 자신의 대화 및 ARS 대화 페이지에 대해 약간의 토크를 하기에는 너무 강력한 해결책."삭제론자들을 악마라고 부르지 말아줘"와 같은 간단한 시도를 한 사람이 있는가?2012년 1월 22일(UTC) 11시 50분 아무도 참여하지 않는다[하라
- 내가 아직 보지 못한 경고가 있었나? - 애런 브레네만 (대화) 12:01, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[하라
- 이것은 구조 템플릿 삭제 후 방금 튀어나온 것이 아니다.AFD 참가자를 '마음 없는 삭제주의 드론'으로 지칭하는 이 댓글은 해당 템플릿이 삭제 후보로 지명되기 전 제 토크 페이지에서 이뤄졌다.이것은 단기적인 소동이 아니라 장기간의 태도다.여기서 아이러니한 점은 나는 그가 말하는 많은 것에 원칙적으로 동의하지만 반대 입장을 가진 사람들의 넓은 마을화를 지지하지 않는다는 것이다. --Ron Ritzman (토크) 13:00, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 일주일만?만약 우리가 그것을 2주동안 블록으로 만들었더라면 우리는 그의 사용자 페이지와 AfD에 그의 모든 기사들을 악랄하고, 삭제주의자들을 책략하는 것을 할 시간을 가질 수 있었을 것이다.—톰 모리스 (대화) 12:22, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 블럭이야.나는 드림 포커스가 하는 일 중 일부를 좋아하지만, 그는 우리와 그들이 훌륭한 곡을 만드는 동안, 그것은 극도로 분열적이고 도움이 되지 않는 편집 방법이라는 것을 깨달아야 한다.그는 위키피디아가 무엇이 되어야 하는지에 대한 그의 견해를 가질 권리가 있지만, 정말로 그것을 협업에 더 적합한 방식으로 표현해야 한다.북빛의 칼날 (話して下い) 12:31, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이것이 정말 필요한 블록이라고 생각하지 않는다.나는 최근에 법적 위협을 포함하여 훨씬 더 심한 배기가스를 보았는데, 이는 차단을 초래하지 않았다.24시간으로 줄인다.ASCIIn2Bme (대화) 12:37, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- "악마의 삭제론자 집단"의 카드 운반 멤버로서 (우리는 "Legion of Doom" BTW를 선호한다) 나는 28바이트에 동의한다고 말해야 한다."문명은 망했다"와 같은 요약 편집은 드림 포커스에게조차 너무 어리석고 과장된 것이다.그는 점차 자신을 패러디한 포의 법칙으로 발전한 것 같다.2012년 1월 22일 12시 39분 (UTC)[
- 가끔 내가 전체 삭제주의자/침해주의자에 대해 빈정거릴 때, 나는 "삭제주의자"를 위해 힐이라는 용어를 사용한다.(그리고 물론 "유대주의자들"의 면면도)예를 들어, 철회된 AFD 지명이나 스트라이크 삭제!투표는 "힐 페이스 턴" :.) --Ron Ritzman (토크) 13:18, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 만약 WP가 없었다면 몇 년 전에 그를 변호했을 것이다.관여된 나는 근본적으로 행동을 취하는 것이 금지되어 있다.이것은 고립된 사건이 아니다.드림 포커스는 이것을 전쟁으로 보고, AFD가 된 정말 불쾌한 혼란에 강하게 기여한다.—Kww(대화) 12:41, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 28바이트 당, Nobody Ent 및 위의 몇 가지 항목.거대한 블록 역사가 없다는 점을 고려하면 다소 가혹해 보인다(2009년 이전 2번지).나는 "집단적 사고"나 "사랑하는 마음" 유형의 사물에 대한 전체적인 개념에 그다지 관심이 없으며, 반대되는 견해는 동등한 지위에 주어져야 한다고 생각한다.— Ched : ? 12:50, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
경고 문제에 관해서는, 나는 공식적인 차단 경고가 이루어지지 않았다는 것에 동의한다.그러나 Dream Focus는 그의 사용자 페이지가 공격 페이지로 두 번 삭제되도록 지명되었다는 비교적 독특한 특징을 가지고 있다(Wikipedia:삭제/사용자:Dream Focus, Wikipedia:삭제/사용자:드림 포커스(2차 지명)불행하게도 그것은 주로 "삭제주의자"를 "보이지만"에 해당하는 단어로 보는 사람들의 투표 때문에 유지되었다.그럼에도 불구하고, 지각 있는 사람들은 그것을 그의 행동이 용납될 수 없다는 경고로 받아들였어야 했다.—Kww(대화) 13:13, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 그럼 위키피디아에 표시해 볼까?Rfc/u를 과거 기록으로 사용하고 메모를 추가하시겠습니까?
낮은 수준의 미개하거나 파괴적인 행동을 집요하게 하는 기여자들은 ANI에 데려올 수 있는데, 거기서 그들은 큰 무더기 안에 차단되거나 금지되거나, 실에 "관리자 주의가 필요한 사고는 없다"(추첨의 운명에 따라 다름)라는 아슬아슬한 꼬리표가 붙을 것이다.
- 솔직히, 내가 앉아있는 곳에선 이 곳이 그렇게 보여2012년 1월 22일(UTC) 13:41, 아무도 참여하지 않는다[하라
- Touché! Ma®usBritish 13:44, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
나는 만약 지역사회가 다른 무엇보다도 "삭제주의자"와 "침해주의자"라는 용어에 정말로 분개했다면 위키피디아에 많은 사용자들이 있는 이러한 사용자들을 허용하지 않았을 것이라는 느낌을 받는다.사용자 상자/위키피디아/편집 철학을 상당히 많이 사용한다.그러나 그들은 편집자들에게 라벨을 붙이거나 배척하거나 AfDs에서 지렛대로 사용되어서는 안 된다.AfDs는 모든 사람들에게 의견을 허용하도록 고안되었고, 어떤 형태의 "명예"라고 라벨을 붙이는 것은 아마도 반대 POV를 축출하거나 혹은 다른 편집자들이 논평하는 것을 만류하기 위해 의도된, 미개한 행동과 COI에 지나지 않는다.아무리 가치 없는 일이라도 모든 것을 지키려는 집단으로부터 공격을 받고 싶지 않다.Ma®usBritish 13:35, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 응, 나는 마커스와 통합론자와 삭제론자의 사용자 박스에 대해 동의해 - 나도 그것들을 삭제할 거야.모든 위키백과 사용자들은 주목할 만한 기사를 보관하고 낮은 질의 기사를 개선하기를 원한다.분명히 Dream은 템플릿 삭제에 대해 약간 화가 나서 약간 당황하고 있었다.특히 그의 최근 깨끗한 블록 이력을 고려하면 일주일 블록은 좀 가혹해 보인다.만약 그가 신의 가호를 요청한다면 나는 그것을 지지할 것이다.You reallycan 13:48, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[하라
- 그는 해왔고, 나는 그것을 Jclemens의 주의를 끌었다.— Ched : ? 13:51, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나는 사용자 박스를 삭제하려는 움직임을 보이지 않았다.나는 단지 그들의 사용이 편집자들에게 위키-정치적 방식으로 이용되어서는 안 된다는 것에 주목한다.Ma®usBritish 20:13, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 그는 해왔고, 나는 그것을 Jclemens의 주의를 끌었다.— Ched : ? 13:51, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 문제는, 극단주의 포용론자들에 의해 "삭제주의자"로 밝혀질지도 모르는 우리들 대부분은 실제로 그 철학과 연합한 우리 자신을 고려하지 않는다는 것이다.나는 여기에 나를 포함시키는 것은 과거의 ARS 회원들에 의해 반복적으로 그 붓에 타박상을 입었기 때문이다. 그들 모두는 결국 무언가가 그쪽으로 가지 않을 때 비슷한 불꽃을 내뿜었고, 모든 것이 자발적으로든 그 반대 방향으로 가버렸기 때문이다.그들이 모든 기사들은 저축할 가치가 있다는 말도 안 되는 생각을 했기 때문이다. 마치 그들이 강아지들이기 때문에 그것들을 삭제하는 것은 잘못된 것이다.틀린 것도 아니고, 위키피디아의 영혼에 대한 싸움도 없는데, 그것은 단지 ARS에 참여하는 모든 사람들에게 그들이 기사개선을 원하기 때문에 나쁜 평판을 내리는 가장 극단적인 ARS 십자군들의 랠리적인 외침일 뿐이지, 그들이 사악한 삭제주의 관리자와 that의 사악한 무리들과 어떤 서사시적 투쟁을 벌이고 있다고 믿기 때문이 아니다.잘못 개종한 사람그건 그냥 바보 같은 짓이야.꿈은 확실히 이 사람들 중 가장 짜증나는 것은 아니다. 광고 나는 이 블록이 경종을 울리는 역할을 해서 소위 삭제주의자들이라는 극단주의 이념을 고수하지 않고 각각의 글을 자신의 장점에 따라 가져가는 많은 일반 사용자들이 그를 돕기를 진심으로 바란다.비블브록스 (대화) 00:45, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
DreamFocus의 논평
나는 나를 차단하는 관리자의 토크 페이지에 글을 올릴 수 없다는 것을 알게 되었다.위키백과의 토론에서 나에 대한 답장도 올릴 수 없다.Administrators_noticeboard/Incidents#사용자:Dream_Focus_blocked.어디 보자.몇몇은 내 표현이 분명히 감정적이기보다는 유머러스하다는 것에 동의한다.어떻게 그걸 볼 수 없었는지 모르겠어.몇몇 사람들은 내가 이것에 대해 전혀 경고를 받지 않았다고 언급한다.내가 누군가의 토크 페이지[18]에 "무심한 삭제주의 드론"이라는 댓글을 달았던 때가 있었다. 그 때 그들은 AFD를 다시 열어서 실제로 근원을 찾는 일을 제대로 할 수 있는 사람들이 참여할 수 있게 해달라고 요청했다.나는 왜 그가 분명히 주목할 만한지 구체적으로 열거했다.그의 업적은 분명히 주목할 만했기 때문에 그는 WP를 만났다.내가 보여준 연결고리로서의 작곡가.어쨌든, 그건 아마 좀 감정적이었을 거야.하지만 그 당시에는 아무런 불만도 없었다.그리고 아니, AFD에서 나와 다투는 누군가가 1, 2년 전에 내 사용자 페이지뿐만 아니라 다른 사용자 페이지도 삭제하도록 끊임없이 지명하는 것은 나에게 어떤 종류의 메시지도 보내지 않는다. 왜냐하면 내 페이지에도 아무런 문제가 없었기 때문이다. Dream Focus 13:40, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)(재고처: ? 13:56, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나는 단지 "아니오, 1~2년 전, AFD에서 나와 논쟁하는 누군가가 계속해서 내 사용자 페이지뿐만 아니라 다른 사람들까지 삭제하도록 한 것은 나에게 어떠한 종류의 메시지도 보내지 않는다. 내 페이지에 아무런 문제가 없었기 때문이다."라고 지적할 것이다. "합의에 접근하는 것이 광범위하게 유지되고 있다 - 의견 일치가 있다 - n으로 접근하는 것과 정면으로 배치된다.다른 편집자들에 대한 공격으로서 그들의 분열성이나 잠재적인 구성 때문에 문제가 되는 페이지의 엄청난 요소들"이라고 말했다.나는 개인적으로 드림 포커스가 기사 삭제를 선호하는 사람들을 악마화하는 것을 멈추기로 동의할 때까지 이 블록을 무기한으로 업그레이드하는 쪽으로 기울었다.—Kww(대화) 14:00, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 블록을 뒤집다.편집자가 강력한 POV를 가지고 있다면 그것이 무엇인지 알고 싶어 드림포커스의 언어는 그의 결정을 분명히 한다.그리고 삭제주의 무리들의 피에 젖은 멤버로서, 나는 내 일반적인 방향에서 가끔 던져지는 '무심'을 털어버릴 만큼 강하다고 생각하고, 특히 가끔 그렇듯이, 멈춰 서서 두 번 생각하게 만들면 더더욱 그렇다. --홉스 굿이어 (토크) 14:14, 2012년 1월 22 (UTC)[
- Kww는 드림 포커스가 ARS를 계속 모욕하고, 기회가 있을 때마다 특정 편집자에게 은근한 비난을 퍼붓는다면 ARS가 포섭에 찬성한다고 악명높다고 느낀다는 점을 주목하지 못했다.정말이야, Kww, 그건 편향된 블록 동작이야. 왜냐하면 드림 포커스의 행동만 감시되고 있거든.그가 대체적인 견해를 가졌다는 이유로 비난을 받는 동안 그가 처벌받을 것을 의도하는 것들은 무엇인가?Ma®usBritish 14:19, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나는 WP 때문에 행동할 수 없다는 점에 주목했다.관여하고, 그리고 내가 이미 결론을 내렸다는 것을 부정하지 않을 것이다.ARS는 실제 기사를 개선하려고 하는 것보다 AFD 과정을 더 방해하려는 소수의 극도로 나쁜 편집자들 때문에 그것이 가지고 있는 나쁜 평판을 가지고 있다.그 한 줌을 금지하면 ARS는 기사 개선에 유용한 도구가 될 것이다.한 계급으로서, 포용론자들은 그 프로젝트에 도움이 되는 꽤 합리적인 사람들이 될 수 있다.Dream Focus는 그렇지 않고, 그에게 이 "삭제주의자 무리"가 용납될 수 없다는 것을 분명히 하는 것은 그가 도움이 되도록 만드는 데 큰 도움이 될 것이다.—Kww(대화) 16:06, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 네, 이해합니다만..모든 이야기에는 양면성이 있다고만 언급하면서 내가 당신의 논평을 노크하고 있다고 느끼지 마십시오.그가 "삭제주의자"를 악마로 만든다고 하셨죠. 이 페이지의 논평이 추측하는 것처럼 그가 ARS를 악마로 만든다고 느낀다는 점을 주목하십시오.아마도 ARS의 '미션 성명'을 고려할 때 ARS가 준수할 수 있도록 커뮤니티가 ARS의 공정한 반파괴 조치를 어느 정도 내려놓을 때인 것 같다. 예를 들어 ARS의 멤버 1명만이 ARS를 대신할 수 있다.그건 선착순이어야 하는데..만약 그들이 "구제"로 지명된 기사들을 논의할 필요가 있다면, 그들은 쓸데없이 말다툼으로 AfDs를 방해하지 않고 그들만의 프로젝트 토크 페이지를 가지고 있다.ARS는 합리적으로 "지키기" 운동을 허용하는 출처와 정책을 식별하고, AfDs가 결과를 회피하려고 애쓰거나, 유권자들을 "삭제"하고 공격하고, 죄책감과 슬픔을 유발하는 등, 기사를 주목할 만한 것으로 입증하는 역할을 해야 한다."ARS 응답"을 1로 제한함으로써, 다른 ARS 회원은 AFD의 다른 !보터에게 반복적으로 도전하지 않고 자신을 대신해서만 응답해야 한다.이러한 지역사회의 합의된 지침은 ARS가 "삭제 반대" 기관으로서 영향력을 축소할 수 있고, 실제로 ARS가 그 이상을 개혁할 기회를 줄 수 있고, Wiki Project 공간 내에서 그들의 노력에 집중할 수 있도록 할 수 있으며, ARS의 "최초" 멤버가 ARS를 계속 유지할 수 있는 긍정적인 이유를 가지고 ARS에 응답하는 "최초" 회원들에게 그들의 우려를 전달할 수 있다.기사화하다각 ARS 회원은 모든 회원들이 "삭제론자 드래곤으로부터 왕국을 방어"하려는 자경단처럼 AFD 주변을 행진하려고 하는 것이 아니라 소수의 ARS를 대표할 수 있다.그동안 AN/I는 ARS가 가이드라인을 어긴 사안에 대해서만 옴부즈맨으로 활용되는데, ARS가 개 목줄을 휘어잡는 것처럼 보이는 현재 상황보다는 차단 시기와 차단 여부를 결정할 수 있을 만큼 명확할 것이다.예를 들어, 위키프로젝트 LGBT의 회원들이 모든 BLP에 "LGBT" 배너를 달고 이리저리 돌아다닌다면, 그것은 파괴적인 것으로 간주될 것이고, 유죄를 선고받은 태거들은 처리될 것이다.ARS는 "커버 서로 등받이"를 제거해야 하며, ARS 회원은 AFD당 "ARS"로 말할 수 있기 때문에 각 회원은 AFD를 파괴한 책임을 질 수 있다.그건, 내가 부과하고 싶은 종류의 것일 텐데, {{rescue}} 태그를 없애는 것만큼 과격한 것도 아니고, 실제로 똥이 팬에 부딪힐 때 나타나는 모든 AfD 메이헤이와 AN/I 오버플로로 이어지지 않는다.그냥 생각일 뿐인데 흠이 좀 있을 수도 있어모든 사람에게 가장 잘 맞는다고 생각하는 것에 대해 대충 설명했을 뿐이야Ma®usBritish 19:01, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나는 WP 때문에 행동할 수 없다는 점에 주목했다.관여하고, 그리고 내가 이미 결론을 내렸다는 것을 부정하지 않을 것이다.ARS는 실제 기사를 개선하려고 하는 것보다 AFD 과정을 더 방해하려는 소수의 극도로 나쁜 편집자들 때문에 그것이 가지고 있는 나쁜 평판을 가지고 있다.그 한 줌을 금지하면 ARS는 기사 개선에 유용한 도구가 될 것이다.한 계급으로서, 포용론자들은 그 프로젝트에 도움이 되는 꽤 합리적인 사람들이 될 수 있다.Dream Focus는 그렇지 않고, 그에게 이 "삭제주의자 무리"가 용납될 수 없다는 것을 분명히 하는 것은 그가 도움이 되도록 만드는 데 큰 도움이 될 것이다.—Kww(대화) 16:06, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 의견 - 어느 쪽으로든 갈 수 있다.클레멘스는 일반적으로 건전한 판단력을 가지고 있지만(어쨌든 BLP1E를 깎아내리려 하지 않을 때는;), 드림 포커스의 폭력적인 언사는 너무 지나쳐서 심각하게 받아들이기 어렵다; 그것은 저수지 개들보다 벅스 버니다.Tarc (대화) 15:43, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 잠깐, 그래서 우리는 일주일 동안 "악질 삭제론자"에 대한 일반화된 진술들을 차단하지만, 우리는 다른 사용자들을 모욕하고 그들에게 욕설하는 사람들을 괴롭힐 뿐인가? (내가 말하는 사람들을 지적할 필요가 있을까?)일방적이 되다니.실버스렌C 16:07, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
나는 이 편집본을 이사회의 주목을 끌어야 한다고 생각한다.좀 헷갈리네.이 주제와 관련이 있는가 아니면 무작위인가?특별 참조:기여금/205.185.126.202.яehevkor ✉ 16:39, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 분명히 파괴적이지만, 그것을 드림 포커스(DreamFocus)와 연결시킬 수 있는 명백한 것은 없다.이전에 이런 종류의 일을 한 것으로 밝혀진 소수의 금지된 사용자들이 있는데, 그것은 에이전트 프로비게이더일 가능성이 더 높다.ARS의 토크 페이지나 주요 편입학 편집자에게 알리는 것은 COVER로서 더 의미가 있을 것이다-- 이것은 분명히 드림 포커스를 해치기 위해 고안된 것이고, 나는 그것을 사지 않을 것이다.Jclemens (대화) 2012년 1월 22일 16:49 (UTC)[
드림 포커스는 수년 전부터 자신의 사용자 페이지에 이런 댓글을 달았다.그의 전장 심리가 뚜렷이 드러나는 비누상자다.경고를 받지 않은 것에 대해, 나는 그의 사용자 페이지가 문제가 있다고 여러 사용자들이 지적한 MfD로 보내진 그의 사용자 페이지는 충분히 경고했다고 말할 수 있다.언제까지 그와 의견이 다른 사람들을 악마라고 부르는 것을 내버려둘 것인가?지지 블록.AniMate 16:58, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나는 분명히 이런 논평들을 기억하는데, 그것은 더 좋은 것들 중 하나이고 분명히 Dream 포커스가 그의 페이지에 올리는 것보다 더 나쁘지는 않다.그럼 왜 루크가 차단되지 않은 거지?실버스렌C 18:30, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- "즉각적인 뒤집기" 무력에 대한 요구에서 멀리 떨어진, 선의의 집념은 그 논평이 단지 그 분대 템플릿의 상투적인 파괴 이후 약간의 긴장을 푸는 유머러스한 방법에 불과했다는 것이다.그것이 사임을 표명한 것이 있다면, 공격성과는 거의 정반대인 것이다.ARS가 아무 가치도 없다는 우스꽝스러운 주장을 하는 TFD의 다중 논평은 훨씬 더 도발적이었다.물론 어느 누구도 군중과 맞서는 것보다 개별적인 목표물에 맞서는 것이 훨씬 쉽기 때문에 이들에 대해 어떤 것도 하지 않는다.이 블록 리스크는 우리 중 가장 훌륭한 기여자 중 한 명이다.인격의 고귀함에서 그는 대령과 몇몇 다른 사람들과 비교될 수 있을 뿐이다.순진한 선함과 기사도덕을 겸비한 그의 조합에서 드림이란 여기서는 비길 데가 없다, 나는 그를 원탁의 퍼시발 경에 비유할 수밖에 없다.우리는 훨씬 더 멀리까지 도달해야만 응집 과정에서의 비교적인 실패를 발견할 수 있다.이 블록은 기껏해야 한 시간 이내에 뒤집혔어야 했다.무작위로 선정된 아테네인 집단이 소크랙티스에게 사형을 선고한 이후부터 합의된 과정이 그렇게 불명예스럽게 여겨지는 것은 아니다.FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:39, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 멋진 페이드, 또 해냈구나.더 많은 전투, 갈등, 선한 v 악한 은유. 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC) 18:33, 22 (
- 페이드 헉스터블도 자신을 막으려고 하는 것 같군 일종의 순교자 콤플렉스 같은 건가?[19]타냐 스튜어트 (대화) 19:09, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 아래의
지원 블록아래 업데이트 DF의 토크 페이지에 있는 내 게시물을 보다 자세히 살펴보십시오. 그러나 요약하자면, "나도 한때 ARS 회원이었습니다. ARS에 문제가 있는 건 아니야... ARS에 문제가 있는 게 아니야. 특정 기사가 위키백과 정책에 부합하지 않는다고 믿는 사람들을 "악"이라고 부르는 것은 WP와는 180도 반대되는 것이다.Civil, WP:NPA와 위키피디아에 관한 대학 편집 분위기. 다시 말하지만, 드림 포커스는 ARS를 믿거나 지지한다는 이유로 차단되지 않는다. 인신공격, WP:BATTL 사고방식 등에 의해 차단된다.(토크→ BWilkins ←track) 2012년 1월 22일(UTC) 18:31, 22(UTC)[- 업데이트: 블록을 무기한으로 확장 이 편집만으로도 동일한 저주받은 용어를 계속 사용하려는 DF의 의도가 있음을 알 수 있으며 [이 작품은 정말 모든 것을 말해준다.모든 언블록 요청을 둘러싼 핵심은 사용자가 자신이 차단된 이유에 대한 이해를 보이고 커뮤니티에 다시는 그러한 일이 일어나지 않을 것임을 확신시키는 것이다.DF는 예의 바르게 행동할 수도 없고, 애초에 블록으로 이어졌던 똑같은 행동을 반복하고 있다.그를 보호하라, 그리고 이 빌어먹을 것을 닫아라 (토크→ BWilkins ←트랙) 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC) 12:19, 하라
- 난 이 일에 대해 꽤 혼란스러워.한편으로 우리는 드림포커스를 분출할 수 있는 약간의 공간을 허용해야 하지만, 다른 한편으로 우리는 매우 작은 ARS 완전무결한 그룹들이 그들의 콘텐츠에 대한 접근방법에 동의하지 않기 때문에 편집인구의 일부를 악마로 만드는 것에 큰 문제를 가지고 있다.나는 만연한 악한 삭제론자가 공식적인 입장을 내놓는 것이 유용할지는 잘 모르겠지만 이 전쟁터 정신은 연대적인 환경에서 설 자리가 없고 이것을 끝내기 위해 어떤 형태의 행동이 필요하다.우리 사회의 한 부분이 위키 정치적 이유만으로 계속해서 다른 사람을 공격하는 것을 용인하는 것은 도저히 용납할 수 없다.스파르타즈 18:40, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 블록, 내 생각에 - 이것은 일회용 통풍구가 아니다. (사용자를 보면:Dream Focus는 유머를 위한 시도도 아니고, 유머를 위한 시도도 아니다 - 그의 기여를 훑어보면 "그들은 나의 용감한 전사들과 싸우기 위해 위키백과 zomg를 파괴하기를 원한다"라는 대사들을 따라 많은 과장된 것을 드러낼 것이다. 그러나 농담은 전혀 하지 않는다.pablo 20:08, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 막힘없이 기울어져 있었지만, 이 편집은 그가 전쟁터 정신에서 물러서지 않을 것이라는 것을 거의 확신시켰다.마크 아르스텐 (대화) 21:49, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 스파르타즈와 함께 갈등했다.(그 말은 내가 Jclemens와 전혀 동의하지 않는다는 뜻은 아니다.잘 알려진 편집자의 논쟁적인 블록을 만드는 것은 어느 정도 용기가 필요하며 블록의 길이를 적당히 하는 것은 제약과 상식을 보여준다.)의심의 여지없이 DF는 파괴적일 수 있고 과장이 터무니없으며, 최근의 ARS 혼란은 그것만 증가시켰다.그러나 자신이 프로젝트의 목표로 인식하고 있는 것에 대해 강하게 느끼는 사람이 (틀려도) 막힐 때마다 좀 거슬린다.하지만 체드는 막힘 없는 것을 선호하고, 나는 그와 의견이 다르기 싫다.나는 차단하지 않는 것은 개의치 않는다, 정말로--나는 DF의 중단이 그의 말을 듣는 새로운 편집자들이 더 적었으면 좋겠지만, 그 프로젝트에 큰 위험을 주지는 않는다고 생각한다.하지만 우리가 목줄을 상상할 수 있을까?악마화는 이제 없어?차단할 수 있는 캠프에 대한 과장된 표현? (나는 5년 정도 후에 49개의 기사를 그의 이름으로 쓴 사람에 의해 사악한 삭제주의자, esp라고 불리는 것을 정말 불쾌하게 여긴다.악은 받겠지만, 물론-삭제주의자는 아니다.)Drmies (토크) 21:55, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 약한 지지 차단=이 문제에 대해 의견을 내기가 힘들었고 드림 포커스에 대한 개인적인 반감을 접어두고 그의 의견 대부분과 완전한 의견 불일치를 시도했다.한편으로 Dream Focus의 사용자 페이지에 있는 두 MFD의 결과는 그에게 지역사회가 그의 증오에 가득 찬 독설을 지지하고 그것을 받아들일 수 있다고 생각한다는 생각을 심어주었을지도 모른다; 갑자기 그것이 그렇게 된 것을 발견한 그의 실망과 충격은 약간의 관용을 시사하지 않을지도 모른다.그러나 두 가지 중 두 번째를 자세히 읽어보면 왜 이것이 그럴듯한 해석이 아닌지를 알 수 있다.가까울수록 지역사회는 인식된 적들의 악마화를 용납할 수 없으며 드림 포커스는 주의할 필요가 있다는 점을 분명히 했으며, 따라서 DF는 이를 몰랐을 리 없다.그 토론에서 당신이 볼 수 있는 또 다른 팅팅은 DF의 친구들이 많은 숫자로 나와 모든 비판과 책임으로부터 그를 비껴가고 보호해 주는 방법이다.누군가가 포용주의자의 입장에 동의하기 때문에, 그들은 "좋은 사람들" 중 한 명이고 따라서 그들의 행동은 비난받아서는 안된다는 포용주의적 측면에 의심할 여지가 없다.모든 비판은 백과사전과 전자레인지 새끼 고양이를 통째로 삭제하려는 사악한 무서운 "그들"의 나쁜 믿음 공격일 뿐이다.이 접근법은 모두에게 해롭다.나는 DF가 User:와 같은 파멸의 길을 가고 있는 것이 두렵다.아무도 없는 사람; 그 사용자는 처음에는 아주 성가신 바람둥이로 시작했지만, 그를 비난할 때마다 그의 동맹국들이 그를 책임감으로부터 보호하기 위해 강제로 나오곤 했다.그 결과, 그의 가장 강하고 가장 완고한 수비수 DGG조차도 더 이상 공동체 전체의 분노의 쌓임으로부터 그를 보호할 수 없을 때까지 그의 행동은 더욱 불쾌하고 부정직해졌다.우리 모두는 마지막 결과를 기억한다: 화려한 자폭, 영구적인 공동체 금지, 그리고 그 후의 반복적인 양말 사용.만약 초기에 그의 친구 중 한 명이 그를 한쪽으로 데리고 가서 "나는 너의 의견에 동의하지만, 이것은 정말로 행동할 방법이 아니다"라고 말했다면 이것은 피할 수 있었을 가능성이 있다고 생각한다.내 생각에는 TTN이나 개빈 콜린스와 같은 비슷한 방어 활동을 하는 조직적인 삭제 지원 단체가 있었다면 지금도 편집 작업을 하고 있었을 것이다.그래서 이 블록을 승인한 겁니다.그것은, 아니, 커뮤니티의 전체 부분을 "악마의 무리"라고 부르는 것은 받아들일 수 없으며, 친구의 무비판적인 지원 때문에 무료 이용권을 받을 수 없다는 아주 분명한 메시지를 전달한다.ReykYO! 21:56, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- "Reyk YO! 21:56, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)"에 대한 응답으로 많은 AFD에서 나와 반대해 온 많은 사람들이 낯선 사람들뿐만 아니라 두 번 모두 삭제하려고 올라갔을 때 내 사용자 페이지를 지지하고 있는 것을 본다.그냥 친구들이 나를 응원하러 달려오는 것이 아니다.우리 모두가 서로를 지키기 위해 서두르는 '지지집단'은 없다.그러나 나는 과거에 가끔 나에게 반대했던 어떤 편집자들은 항상 또 다른 잽을 얻기 위해 나타난다는 것을 발견한다.당신은 TTN이 금지된 것을 언급하고 있는데, 사실 그는 악의적인 삭제주의자의 정의였고, M.A.S.H의 첫 시즌 에피소드 전체를 그가 좋아하지 않는 것들을 무심코 대량으로 지명하고, 합병에 반대하는 합의를 무시하고, 끊임없이 그 합의는 대부분의 사람들이 그의 의견에 반대할 때조차도 그를 반대한다는 것을 의미한다고 주장했다.그가 항상 옳았기 때문에, 그것은 중요하지 않았다. 그리고 심지어 위키프로젝트의 캔버스도 그가 무엇을 하고 있는지 알아차린 "침입주의자"보다 더 많은 도움을 받기 위해 그의 친구들이 있다는 것을 알고 있었다.[21] 그는 심지어 자신의 토크 페이지에 조회수가 적은 기사를 먼저 표적으로 삼고, 계속해서 기사를 뽑아내고, 편집자들을 몰아낸 다음, 그 이후에 더 큰 기사를 맡게 될 것이라고까지 말했다.[22] 이러한 행위를 잘못하거나 "악"이라고 부르는 것이 정당하다는 데 동의할 수 있을까?AFD에서 "삭제"라고 말하는 모든 사람이 사악한 삭제론자일 수도, 심지어 삭제론자일 수도 없다는 점에 유의하십시오.만약 누군가가 "WP의 요구조건에 부합한다고 해서"라고 말하는 것을 보게 될 것이다.GNG는 우리가 그것에 관한 기사를 가져야 한다는 것을 의미하지 않는다"라고 말했다. 그렇다면 그것은 사악한 삭제론자일 것이다.그저 싫어서 기사를 죽였으면 좋겠다고 말하는 사람.만약 몇몇 사람들이 진심으로 나의 표현에 혼란스럽고 괴롭다면, 우리는 나쁜 삭제론자들을 언급하기 위해 좀 더 구체적인 용어가 필요할 것 같다. 꿈의 포커스 22:52, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC) Goodvac (토크) 23:47, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나는 네가 그 메시지를 이해하지 못하고 있다고 생각한다; 너는 "악"이라는 단어를 너무 제멋대로 마구 뒤척이고 있다.사악은, 내 마음속에서, 네 윈, 탄 슈웨, 테인 세인 또는 폴 포트와 같은 사람이다.그 웹사이트에서 나와 의견이 다른 사람이 아니야.만약 여러분이 사용할 표현을 생각해 내는 데 어려움을 겪고 있다면, "무중단", "불충분" 또는 "내가 강력하게 반대하는 것"을 제안해 봅시다.내 말이 아주 강한 건 알지만, 내 메시지를 오해하지 않도록 확실히 하고 싶어.북빛의 칼날 (話して下い) 00:17, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 위와 같은 점을 감안할 때, DF가 자신과 의견이 다르기 때문에 사람들을 "악"이라고 부르는 것이 위키백과의 편집 정책과 맞지 않는다는 것을 이해할 때까지 이 블록은 사실상 무기한으로 확대되어야 한다고 생각한다.86.174.213.12 (대화) 00:22, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 말할 것도 없이 "WP 요건을 충족한다고 해서 누군가가 "라고 말하는 것을 본 적이 있다면:GNG는 우리가 그것에 관한 기사를 가져야 한다는 것을 의미하지 않는다". 그렇다면 그것은 악의적인 삭제론이다.이 터무니없는 주장은 실제로 DF가 친구인 워든 대령을 악의적인 삭제주의자로 묘사하고 있다는 것을 의미한다.CW조차 GNG ([23])의 개념을 이해하고 있기 때문이다.86.174.213.12 (토크) 00:24, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- (DF의 Talk 페이지에서 복사) 본 ANI에서는 다른 편집이 없는 IP 주소에서 2010년 10월 29일에 그들이 상기시킨 것을 언급하고 있으며, 당시에도 분명히 존재했었다.로그인하여 적절한 위키백과 사용자 이름을 사용하십시오.그리고 워든은 가이드로서의 규칙을 위반하는 것으로 본 것을 지명했는데, 자신이 싫다고 해서 지명만 한 것이 아니었다.악이라는 단어가 문제가 되는 사람들은 미국이 아닌 다른 나라에 살고 있는가?거기는 다르게 사용되니?"악"이라는 단어는 [24] "실제 또는 귀속된 나쁜 성격이나 행위로부터 얻는 것"과 "불가침한 것" 정의된다.그래서 여기 잘 맞는 것 같아. 드림 포커스 00:36, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 나는 DF 부분에 대한 완전한 이해 부족이 블록을 무기한으로 업그레이드하는 것을 정당화한다고 생각한다.내가 말했듯이, 오직 WP:내가 직접 그 단계를 밟는 것을 막는다.—Kww(대화) 00:46, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 다른 사람을 대변하지는 않겠지만, 내가 뉴잉글랜드 출신이라는 것은 장담할 수 있다.The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下い) 00:47, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 "악"이라는 단어를 사용하는 것이 종종 미국에서도 꽤 논란이 된다고 생각한다.몇 년 전만 해도 정치인들이 그 단어를 사용했다는 것에 대한 큰 논란이 있었는데, 이 기사는 그 주제에 대한 흥미로운 읽을거리다.마크 아르스텐 (토크) 01:47, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 DF 부분에 대한 완전한 이해 부족이 블록을 무기한으로 업그레이드하는 것을 정당화한다고 생각한다.내가 말했듯이, 오직 WP:내가 직접 그 단계를 밟는 것을 막는다.—Kww(대화) 00:46, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- (DF의 Talk 페이지에서 복사) 본 ANI에서는 다른 편집이 없는 IP 주소에서 2010년 10월 29일에 그들이 상기시킨 것을 언급하고 있으며, 당시에도 분명히 존재했었다.로그인하여 적절한 위키백과 사용자 이름을 사용하십시오.그리고 워든은 가이드로서의 규칙을 위반하는 것으로 본 것을 지명했는데, 자신이 싫다고 해서 지명만 한 것이 아니었다.악이라는 단어가 문제가 되는 사람들은 미국이 아닌 다른 나라에 살고 있는가?거기는 다르게 사용되니?"악"이라는 단어는 [24] "실제 또는 귀속된 나쁜 성격이나 행위로부터 얻는 것"과 "불가침한 것" 정의된다.그래서 여기 잘 맞는 것 같아. 드림 포커스 00:36, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 말할 것도 없이 "WP 요건을 충족한다고 해서 누군가가 "라고 말하는 것을 본 적이 있다면:GNG는 우리가 그것에 관한 기사를 가져야 한다는 것을 의미하지 않는다". 그렇다면 그것은 악의적인 삭제론이다.이 터무니없는 주장은 실제로 DF가 친구인 워든 대령을 악의적인 삭제주의자로 묘사하고 있다는 것을 의미한다.CW조차 GNG ([23])의 개념을 이해하고 있기 때문이다.86.174.213.12 (토크) 00:24, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
JClemens의 의견
- 나는 드림 포커스가 '삭제주의자'라는 단어나 심지어 형용사 '악마'라는 단어의 사용을 차단한 것이 아니라, 그 두 단어의 조합을 위해서, 한 단어를 전적으로 동료애와 선의와 일치하지 않는 것으로, 그가 이념적으로 이견을 가지고 있는 편집자 집단에 귀속시켰다.나는 '침해주의자'와 '삭제주의자'라는 용어를 정기적으로 사용한다. 왜냐하면 그것들은 콘텐츠에 대한 다양한 접근방식을 식별하는 데 유용한 라벨이기 때문이다.전방에 '악'을 박는 것은 부적절하다.
- 나는 Dream Focus의 차단 해제 요청을 사지 않는다.위에서 지적했듯이, 그는 극악무도한 공격의 이력이 있는데, 이것은 블록을 초래하지는 않았을지 모르지만, 포용주의자/삭제주의자 논의에서 독한 분위기에 실제로 기여했다.나는 또한 WP를 인용하고 싶은 유혹을 느낄 것이다.NPA는 그 이유로, 현재 진행중인 예의범절인 ArbCom 사건에서, "인신공격은 없다"는 것이 실제로 "개인공격은 없다"로 읽힐 수 있다는 것이 나의 주의를 끌게 되었는데, 그 이유는 그룹에 대한 공격은 구체적으로 다루어지지 않는다는 것이다.
- 나는 또한 그의 "그것은 단지 유머일 뿐"이라는 주장을 믿지 않는다.텍스트로 유머를 나타낼 수 있는 많은 방법들이 있다; 그는 유머를 하나도 사용하지 않았다.반면에 그는 그런 불평의 이력이 있다.나는 지난 몇 년 동안 드림 포커스의 행동에 가장 익숙한 사람들이 여기서 그에게 미심쩍은 이득을 줄 가능성이 거의 없다는 점에 주목한다. 왜냐하면 그는 유머를 보여줄 수 있는 충분한 시간과 기회를 가졌지만, 대신에 그의 막힘 없는 요청에서 볼 수 있듯이 반복적인 극성을 보여 주었기 때문이다.
- 궁극적으로 내가 아니라 공동체의 결정이지만, 그의 진술이 미치는 영향을 이해하지 못한 그의 이력을 볼 때, 나는 여전히 그것에 반대할 것을 권고한다.그가 전쟁터 행위와 같은 것이 있고, 그 행위에 관여했다는 것을 기꺼이 인정하고, 앞으로 그런 논평 없이 위키백과 내용을 개선하겠다고 약속한다면, 나는 그 차단 해제를 환영한다.나는 짧은 블록이 드림 포커스가 이해하고 변화하는데 필요한 일종의 자기성찰을 불러일으킬 것이라고 믿지 않기 때문에 초기 블록의 일주일 길이는 적지 않은 부분이었다.Jclemens (대화) 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC) 17:05 [
- Dream Focus의 사용자 페이지를 읽는 데 시간을 들인 사람이 이 블록에 어떻게 이의를 제기할 수 있는지 모르겠다.그것은 사실상 소설인데, 나는 왜 어떤 사람들은 그러지 않았는지 이해한다.다만 철학이 다른 사람을 악에서 비합리적이고 악랄하고 엘리트주의적이며 콧대 높은 것으로 부르는 사용자 페이지는 WP:BATTL그라운드의 위반임이 분명하다.그는 몇 년 동안 이런 헛소리를 해왔기 때문에 그 블록의 길이가 적당하다.만약 그가 오래 전에 다른 그룹의 사람들에 대해 쓴 글을 썼다면, 그는 외설되었을 것이지만, 어떻게든 그와 함께 일해야 하는 그의 동료 위키피디아 사람들은 다른 외부 그룹들이 즐기는 것과 같은 보호를 받지 못한다.훌륭한 블록이고 솔직히 말해서 누군가가 그 사용자 페이지에 마체테트를 가져다가 장광설을 몇 개 잘라내야 한다.애니메이트 17:32, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 블록을 일주일에서 무기한으로 바꿔서 모든 AFD에 추가하면 어떨까? DreamFocus를 계속 유지해서 편집의 필요성을 없앨 수 있을까?(이것은 가벼운 마음으로)유러브칸 17:37, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 유머가 아니라 편집자를 사물처럼 대한다.미완성 (대화) 17:49, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 아주 드로엘. 확실해.Dreams를 보면 AfD에 대한 그의 양질의 기여 외에도, 그는 종종 새로운 사람들에게 매우 유용한 조언을 해주고, 게임과 일반 관심사에 관한 기사들을 실질적으로 개선하며, 심지어 남용에 관한 기사들과 같은 높은 영향력 있는 기사들에 민감하고 잘 판단된 기여를 한다는 것을 보여준다.그는 또한 단지 주변에 있는 것만으로 다른 사람들에게 영감을 주기 위해 행동하는, 거의 부적이기도 하다.FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:53, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 필자는 만약 전쟁터 사고방식을 강화하는 확실한 방법 하나가 있다면 가장 중요한 참가자 중 한 명에게 논쟁의 여지가 있는 블록을 나눠주는 것이 될 것이라고 생각한다.Tigerboy1966 (토크) 18:02, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 나도 동의해.나는 이 ANI 토론은 종결되어야 한다고 말하고 싶다.IMO, 이건 ARS 내부 문제야.미완성 (대화) 2012년 1월 22일 19:11 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)누군가가 "약속적인 참가자"이기 때문에 필요할 때 차단하지 않는 것 또한 매우 잘못된 메시지를 전달한다.FWIW, 나는 아마도 포용주의자일 것이다. 그리고 나는 좋은 블록이라고 말한다. - 부시 레인저One ping only 19:12, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- "이것은 ARS의 내부 문제야...물론 아니지.ARS ABF 출신자가 ARS 회원이 아닌 사람을 ARS가 아닌 중개인에 의해 해결되어야 한다.나는 블록을 지지하고 또한 그의 사용자 페이지 삭제를 지지한다.지나치게 오피네스가 심한 격전지인데, 퍼플백팩89≈≈≈ 20 20:39, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[을 위반하는 사용자 페이지 정책은 그것뿐만이 아니다.
- 내가 볼 수 있는 한 1주일이란 것은 확실히 과도하다 1) DF토크페이지에서 단지 두어 문장만을 말하는 것으로 볼 때, 2) 그가 "그것은 유머일 뿐"이라고 말한다면 선의 추정이 나쁘지 않을 것이다, 3) 배틀그라운드 당 적어도 하나의 경고가 없는 긴 블록은 위에서 말한 것처럼, 전쟁터를 격화하는 확실한 방법 하나가 있는 것 같다.캐버론 (대화)20:36, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 어떤 사건 때문만은 아니에요몇 번이나 이런 짓을 했는데...퍼플백팩89≈packpack20:39, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 개인적으로, 나는 그 블록이 불행한 필수품이라고 생각한다.또한, 나는 "삭제주의자"와 "제외주의자" 사이의 양극화에 매우 실망했다.우리 모두 그냥 잘 지내면 안 될까? 보브레이너 (대화) 21:44, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[하라
"ARS 내부 문제야" 뭐라고?언제부터 ARS가 커뮤니티에 우리가 논의할 수 있는 것과 논의할 수 없는 것을 지시하게 되었는가?--v/r - TP 21:45, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 사용자 드림 포커스는 이번이 처음이다.나는 그의 사용자 페이지를 읽는 것을 막 끝냈다.나는 그러한 아스트릭과 대립하는 억압을 바탕으로, 특히 드림 포커스에 의한 그러한 열렬하게 편향된 시각이 그의 최근 발언들에 스며들게 된다면 이 분명한 징벌적 차단을 지지해야 한다.
- 그러나 나는 이 논쟁적인 블록을 지원할 수 없다.
- 앉은뱅이 중재자들이 기껏해야 비누칠을 당하거나 더 나쁜 짓을
하는것을 피하기 위해 특히 논쟁적인 분야에서 일방적 행정적 행동으로부터 자신을 은둔해야 한다는 것이 나의 개인적인 생각이다. - --Senra (대화) 23:02, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- 이론상으로는 중재위원회 문제와 무관한 차단 문제에 있어서 좌장격은 다른 어떤 관리자보다 권위적이지 않지만(이것은 명백히 그렇지 않다), 그 지위에 귀속되는 지위는 내가 지역사회를 위해 즉시 이곳에 블록을 가져온 이유인 것이다.만약 내가 재직하고 있는 동안 중재위원회에 이 문제가 제기된다면, 나는 이 사건에 참여하는 arb들에게 오프위키 입력을 제공할 수 없는 등 중재자로 참여할 수 없게 되어 버려질 것이다.내가 관찰한 행동에 대해 드림 포커스를 차단하기 위해 스스로 그것을 택한 이유 (나는 WT:ARS 감시목록)은 내가 다른 어떤 앉아있는 중재자 못지않게 포용주의자라는 점이며, 나는 파벌주의에 대한 유일한 해결책은 각 '측면'에 있는 관리자들이 스스로 경찰을 하는 것이라고 굳게 믿는다.나의 기여 이력을 되돌아보면, 내가 AfD에 코멘트를 한다면, 그것은 대개 출처를 지적하거나 기사를 수리하거나 합병하도록 촉구하는 것임을 알 수 있다.따라서 이 논의에서 나의 목소리는 항소법원 판사들 중 한 명이 아니라, 단지 이 전쟁터 수사학에 대해 확고한 입장을 취하고, 그것이 필요한 백과사전적 내용을 실제로 개선해야 할 때라고 말하는 또 다른 포용주의자/상업주의 행정관이다.내 블록은 다른 블록과 마찬가지로 커뮤니티 검토와 권한 없는 관리자 전복에도 개방되어 있다.건배, 제클레멘스 (대화) 2012년 1월 23일 01:11 (UTC)[
- 여기서 흥미로운 점은 상당히 전형적인 "폐합주의자/삭제주의자" 미사여구가 진행되고 있다는 것이다.유머가 있든 없든, DF의 진술은 어조가 극단주의적이다 - "무엇이 유효한 기사인지 알 수 없다"는 것은 위키백과에 추가된 모든 자료들이 타당하다는 주장이다. 사실 위키백과는 한 번도 포괄적 정보 덤프라고 주장한 적이 없다.OTOH, WP정책을 명확히 충족하는 자료는 결코 손쓸 수 없는 삭제는 아니다.그래서 극단주의 양극화는 공동체 현실을 반영하지도 않고, 공동체라고 말하는 것도 도움이 되지 않는다.모든 것을 지키거나 모든 것을 삭제하는 데 일방적으로 찬성한다면 WP 커뮤니티의 누구도 정말로 여기에 있어서는 안 되며, 이 '인/아웃' 주장이 지금까지처럼 계속 표출되는 한 엄청난 시간낭비와 터무니없는 비판으로 이어질 것이다.MSJapan (대화) 23:20, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)[
- "위키피디아에 추가된 모든 자료가 타당하다는 주장"이다.나는 그런 말을 한 적이 없다.너는 내 말을 앞뒤가 맞지 않게 받아들이고 있다.내가 말한 것은 아무리 많은 기사를 모아도 매일 백여 개가 더 파괴된다는 것이었다.[49] 그 중 몇 개가 유효한 기사인지 알 수 없고, 그저 열린 마음을 가진 사람이 필요했을 뿐이며, 그저 그들의 삭제주의적인 미사여구를 무심코 내뱉고 남들이 애써 만든 것을 파괴하려 하지 않고 실제로 출처를 찾으려는 의지였다.나는 물론 누군가가 나타나 구글 뉴스와 다른 출처에서 참고인을 검색하기 전에 기사 구조대가 저장한 많은 기사들이 원래 삭제될 예정이었다는 사실에 대해 언급하고 있다.나는 과거에 삭제 투표를 했고, 심지어 몇몇 후보까지 지명한 적이 있기 때문에, 모든 삭제에 반대하지는 않는다.WP를 따르지 않거나 잘못된 이유로 만들어진 제품들:이전. Dream Focus 23:30, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC) Goodvac(토크) 23:47, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)의 Dream Focus의 강연을 본떠서 [
- 나는 한 구절에 대해 토론하지 않을 것이며 대리 토론도 하지 않을 것이다; 전체적인 입장에서의 가정은 부적절하다.당신의 "무심하게 삭제된" 주장은 "하루에 100개의 기사가 파괴된다"는 것과 같이 부적절하며, 당신은 삭제된 기사를 보고자 하는 사람들은 정책을 전혀 적용하지 않고, 사실이 바뀐 후에도 진술을 뒤집고 자격을 부여하려고 한다.솔직히, 나는 또한 당신의 주장이 "삭제주의자"에 대해 얼마나 격렬하게 반대하는지 생각해 볼 때, 당신의 온건한 입장을 믿지 않는다.당신의 논리에 따르면, "명목당 유지"는 "무념한 포용주의적 수사"이며, "게시 전에 출처를 찾지 않는" 사람들에 의해 "백 개의 정책 위반 기사가 하루에 보관된다"는 것과 "잘못된 이유로 만들어진 추가에 반대하거나 정책을 따르지 않는 것"이라는 논리의 다른 측면도 있다.흥미롭지 않니....MSJapan (대화) 00:36, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- MSJAPan, 당신은 "하루에 100개의 기사가 파괴된다"고 말하는 것은 부적절하다.그러나 AFD [25]를 클릭하면 하루 동안 124개의 결과가 나오고, 나머지 최근 며칠은 90개가 넘는다.그렇다, 우리는 하루에 약 100개의 기사가 파괴되거나 삭제된다.그렇게 되는 것이다.그리고 나는 솔직히 그들 모두가 삭제될 자격이 있는지 의심스럽다.몇 년 동안 이런 일은 계속되었다.수십만건, 수백만건의 기사가 삭제된 정확한 통계는 없는가?기사구조대대는 구해야 할 괜찮은 기사를 찾아내고, 참고인을 찾으려는 사람들의 관심을 끌고 구원을 돕는 일을 꽤 잘 해냈다.나는 내 사용자 페이지에 그것에 대한 나의 의견을 진술할 권리가 있다.물론 모두를 두 그룹으로 나누지는 않을 겁니다.AFD에서 삭제를 말하는 모든 사람이 아닌 악/불량 삭제주의자들이 내가 맞서는 사람들이다. 드림 포커스 08:56, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 나는 한 구절에 대해 토론하지 않을 것이며 대리 토론도 하지 않을 것이다; 전체적인 입장에서의 가정은 부적절하다.당신의 "무심하게 삭제된" 주장은 "하루에 100개의 기사가 파괴된다"는 것과 같이 부적절하며, 당신은 삭제된 기사를 보고자 하는 사람들은 정책을 전혀 적용하지 않고, 사실이 바뀐 후에도 진술을 뒤집고 자격을 부여하려고 한다.솔직히, 나는 또한 당신의 주장이 "삭제주의자"에 대해 얼마나 격렬하게 반대하는지 생각해 볼 때, 당신의 온건한 입장을 믿지 않는다.당신의 논리에 따르면, "명목당 유지"는 "무념한 포용주의적 수사"이며, "게시 전에 출처를 찾지 않는" 사람들에 의해 "백 개의 정책 위반 기사가 하루에 보관된다"는 것과 "잘못된 이유로 만들어진 추가에 반대하거나 정책을 따르지 않는 것"이라는 논리의 다른 측면도 있다.흥미롭지 않니....MSJapan (대화) 00:36, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- "위키피디아에 추가된 모든 자료가 타당하다는 주장"이다.나는 그런 말을 한 적이 없다.너는 내 말을 앞뒤가 맞지 않게 받아들이고 있다.내가 말한 것은 아무리 많은 기사를 모아도 매일 백여 개가 더 파괴된다는 것이었다.[49] 그 중 몇 개가 유효한 기사인지 알 수 없고, 그저 열린 마음을 가진 사람이 필요했을 뿐이며, 그저 그들의 삭제주의적인 미사여구를 무심코 내뱉고 남들이 애써 만든 것을 파괴하려 하지 않고 실제로 출처를 찾으려는 의지였다.나는 물론 누군가가 나타나 구글 뉴스와 다른 출처에서 참고인을 검색하기 전에 기사 구조대가 저장한 많은 기사들이 원래 삭제될 예정이었다는 사실에 대해 언급하고 있다.나는 과거에 삭제 투표를 했고, 심지어 몇몇 후보까지 지명한 적이 있기 때문에, 모든 삭제에 반대하지는 않는다.WP를 따르지 않거나 잘못된 이유로 만들어진 제품들:이전. Dream Focus 23:30, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC) Goodvac(토크) 23:47, 2012년 1월 22일 (UTC)의 Dream Focus의 강연을 본떠서 [
- 음, 그 정도면 그 블록이 좋다는 걸 납득시킬 수 있을 거야.그는 AfDs의 목록을 보여주는 페이지 링크를 제공하고 일부는 여전히 진행 중이고 일부는 삭제되고 일부는 보관되어 있으며, 모두 삭제되었다고 말한다.그리고 나서 그는 그 거짓 인물에서 '수백만 개의 기사'가 삭제된 불가능한 한 사람으로 추론한다.지난 10년간 하루에 100건씩 삭제했다면 36만5000건이었다.분명히 그런 일은 일어나지 않았고, 심지어 그도 논쟁하지 않을 것이다. 나는 그들 모두가 구원을 받았기를 바란다.이것은 우리가 AfDs를 상대하고 싶어하는 그런 종류의 사고방식이 아니다.더그웰러 (대화) 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC) 12시 29분 [
- 실례합니다만"매일 지명된다"고 말했어야 했는데.내 생각에 그들 중 대부분은 삭제될 것이다.하루가 다르게 변하니까, 정말 확신할 수 없어.삭제로 인해 삭제되거나 리디렉션으로 대체된 기사가 얼마나 많은지 알 수 없다.아마도 수백만명은 아닐 것이다.나는 굳이 계산을 하지 않았다.나쁜 수학 실력은 누군가를 막는 이유가 아니다.그리고 나는 그들이 모두 구해야 한다고 말한 것이 아니라, 얼마나 구해야 했어야 했는지 알 수 없다고 말했다.수많은 기사를 삭제하기 위해 지명하는 것은 너무 쉬우며, 만약 그들이 WP를 따랐다면 누군가가 돌아다니며 지명자가 했어야 할 일을 하기는 너무 쉽다.이전. Dream Focus 12:43, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC) - (요청 시 Dream의 강연을 베낀다. FeydHuxtable (talk) 13:06, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC) [
- != 삭제 리디렉션 중.편집이 기사 내용을 리디렉션 마커로 대체해도 손실되는 것은 없으며, 텍스트는 여전히 기록에서 남아 있다.DF는 이 점을 이해하지 못하는 것 같고 나쁜 것을 병합할 때 방향을 바꾸자는 제안까지 하고 있다(토크: 참조).예를 들어 Ocean County 보안관부).DF는 더 잘 알 수 있을 만큼 오래 있었다. --MASEM (t) 14:15, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 여러분 모두 문제의 예를 보기 위해 그 토크 페이지 토론을 보십시오.어떤 정보도 "재간접"으로부터 복사될 것 같지 않다.마셈은 "그러나 컨텐트가 카운티 기사에 0개 추가되고, 이것이 리디렉션으로 남아 있더라도 어떤 정보도 손실되지 않는다"고 말한다.편집자라면 누구나 구할 수 있는 공개 개정 역사 안에 들어 있다."어떤 정보도 복사되지 않고 리디렉션으로 대체되는 경우 대부분은 해당 형식으로 기사를 볼 가능성이 없기 때문에 삭제하는 것과 같다.삭제하거나 리디렉션하여 기사를 삭제하는 것에 대해 불평했을 때 그 사건에 대해 생각하지 않았다.나는 수년 전 어떤 편집자가 돌아다니면서 다소 많은 수의 망가와 관련된 기사를 리디렉션으로 교체하고 다른 기사에 단 한 가지도 포함되지 않은 상황에서 "몰입적"이라고 주장했을 때를 생각하고 있었다.어쨌든 나는 그 토크페이지에서 했던 것처럼 불평할 권리가 있는가, 아니면 그것이 배틀그라운드 심리인가. Dream Focus 14:38, 2012년 1월 23일(UTC) 사용자 토크 14:57, 2012년 1월 23일(UTC) 복사[
- 내가 DF에서 보고 있는 태도는 부분적으로 옳고 그르다.나는 우리가 기사를 삭제할 때, 그 기사의 모든 정보가 효과적으로 손실되고, 그것에 대한 모든 기여가 무효화되는 등의 우려에 동의한다.따라서 이러한 방식으로 정보를 삭제하는 것은 극도로 주의해야 할 사항이며, 명백한 비임시적 내용만 삭제하는 것을 확실히 하기 위해 싸울 가치가 있는 싸움이다.나는 DF가 위에서 보여지는 배틀그라운드 사고방식을 취할 때, 리디렉션이 관리 삭제와 동일한 중대한 문제를 가지고 있으며, 따라서 리디렉션/메르그에 대해 삭제와 마찬가지로 많은 손익과 싸우는 것에 대해 나는 강하게 반대한다.링크된 수녀원에서, 나는 한 때 리디렉션으로 대체된 페이지였던 자료가 어떻게 영원히 유실되지 않는지 설명하려고 노력했지만, 다시 말하지만, DF는 합의로 받아들여지는 이 사실을 받아들이지 않는다.그것은 즉시 전장의 출발점을 정하여, 합의에 반하는 단일한 입장을 취한다. --MASEM (t) 15:06, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 음, 그 정도면 그 블록이 좋다는 걸 납득시킬 수 있을 거야.그는 AfDs의 목록을 보여주는 페이지 링크를 제공하고 일부는 여전히 진행 중이고 일부는 삭제되고 일부는 보관되어 있으며, 모두 삭제되었다고 말한다.그리고 나서 그는 그 거짓 인물에서 '수백만 개의 기사'가 삭제된 불가능한 한 사람으로 추론한다.지난 10년간 하루에 100건씩 삭제했다면 36만5000건이었다.분명히 그런 일은 일어나지 않았고, 심지어 그도 논쟁하지 않을 것이다. 나는 그들 모두가 구원을 받았기를 바란다.이것은 우리가 AfDs를 상대하고 싶어하는 그런 종류의 사고방식이 아니다.더그웰러 (대화) 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC) 12시 29분 [
- 나는 그 블록을 지지하며, 늘 그렇듯이 나는 그 블록이 지역사회가 파괴적인 행동이 계속되지 않을 것이라고 합리적으로 확신할 수 있는 시간까지 제자리를 유지할 것을 권고한다.현재 이곳에서 진행되고 있는 IDHT의 수준을 감안할 때 언제가 될지는 짐작조차 할 수 없었다.--Crossmr (토크) 00:38, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 블록을 지지한다.그 차단 행정관은 정책에 전적으로 부합하는 행동을 했고 그들이 맡긴 일을 한 것에 대해 지원을 받을 자격이 있다.나는 무한 블록이 과도했을 것이라고 생각하지만 일주일은 적당하다.나는 DF가 합리적인 요청을 하고 재범주의를 피하기 위한 명시적인 의도로 BFM의 부정적 영향에 대한 이해를 표명한다면 차단 관리자가 차단을 제거할 것이라고 가정하며, 만약 DF가 그러한 주장을 했다면, 그는 그렇게 해야 한다고 믿는다.교정조치의 잉크 없이 차단을 해제하는 것은 완전히 잘못된 메시지를 보낼 것이다.그래서 정말로, 결정은 DF가 내려야 한다.이성에 맞추면 블록이 제거되고 하드라인이 유지되고 일주일 후에 보자.My76Strat (대화) 02:21, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 그의 사용자 페이지를 보면 알 수 있듯이, 이 수사법은 드림 포커스에서 새로운 것이 아니며, 나는 많은 편집자들이 그의 글을 무시하는 법을 배웠다고 생각한다.WP:B의 블록 이론ATTLE은 건전했다.이 반미적인 미사여구는 선보다 더 많은 갈등을 유발하며 우리는 이에 대해 조치를 취해야 한다.내 우려는 1) 이 공격에 대한 경고나 이전 블록이 없어서 블록 길이가 좀 길었다.2) 의견차단 vs 중단차단:
- 누군가는 드림 포커스가 단지 자신의 의견을 말한 것이라고 말할지도 모른다.공감되지 않는 의견을 들고 목소리를 내는 것은 아무 문제가 없지만(나 스스로도 꽤 자주 하는 일인데), 이것을 신중하고 좋은 맛으로 해야지, 짚신 같은 캐리커처로 편집자를 공격해서는 안 된다.이 블록이 WP:BATtle과 많이 동기화되지 않는 코멘트의 다른 블록으로 이어지지 않을까 조금 걱정된다. WP:B의 차단ATTLE 위반은 항상 가성으로 수행해야 한다.차단 관리자는 이 정책을 사용하여 차단을 발행하기 전에 사용자의 의견이 경멸적이고 선동적인지 확인해야 한다.ThemeFromSpace 04:09, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
나는 그 블록을 지지할 수 없다.드림 포커스가 상당 기간 동안 이런 식으로 진행했을 때, 기껏해야 변덕스러울 때 경고도 없이 지금 그를 차단하는 것이다.나는 경고가 효과가 없었을 것이라는 것을 의심하지 않지만, 그것은 주어져야 했다.이것은 이 중요한 단계를 건너뛸 만큼 충분히 파괴적이지 않았다.
애런 브레너먼 (대화) 05:59, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 블록에 대한 언급은 하지 않았지만, 나중에 깨달았어야 했지만, ARS 타이틀에서 '스쿼드론'을 사용하는 것은 전투를 의미한다는 생각이 처음 들었다.나는 템플릿 토론을 보고 템플릿에 대해 논평을 했지만, 아마도 우리는 ARS에게 내가 지나치게 대립적인 제목으로 보는 것을 바꾸라고 요청해야 할 것이다.더그웰러 (대화) 2012년 1월 23일 07:12 (UTC)[
- 차단된 행정관은 최근에 파괴된 기사 구조대[27]의 토크 페이지에서 내가 "어쨌든, 삭제주의자들의 사악한 무리들이 마침내 우리를 속인 것 같았으니 이제 상관없어."라고 다소 농담조로 말했기 때문에 내가 차단당하고 있다고 말했다.아무런 경고도 없었다.그러자 차단 관리자는 나를 차단한 직후 ANI에 대한 토론을 열어 내가 제대로 참여할 수 없는 나에 대한 토론을 벌인다.많은 사람들이 유머를 보는 반면, 다른 사람들은 이해하지 못하고, 나는 그 이유를 알아내려고 노력하고 있다. 그리고 만약 "악"이라는 단어가 정확히 같은 의미를 갖는 무언가로 대체된다면 정말 문제가 될 것이다.그들을 "나쁜" 삭제주의자로 부르십시오.내가 사용자 페이지에 올리는 어떤 것도 AFD에서 사람들이 어떻게 행동하는지 바꿀 수 없기 때문에 그것은 전쟁터적 사고방식을 만들어내지 못한다.ARS 토크 페이지의 마지막 단조로운 비트를 제외하고, 사용자 페이지에서만 상위 익살스러운 비트를 유지했으며, AFD 및 토론 페이지에서는 제외되었다.그래서 나는 여기서 문제가 별로 없다고 본다.만약 내가 '악' 대신 '나쁜'이라는 말을 썼더라면 제클레멘스는 충동적으로 나를 금지시켰을까? 드림 포커스 08:50, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- My76Strat에 따른 지원 차단 및 지원 차단 해제, If Dream이 그의 발언이 "잘못 안내된" 것임을 인정하고 향후 이러한 언어를 피하기로 합의했다.2012년 (edits) 1월 23일 Mtking 11:56 (UTC)[하라
- 지지 블록과 그의 최근 진술에 따르면 아마도 수백만 개의 기사가 삭제되었다.위에 있는 내 의견을 봐.더그웰러 (대화) 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC) 12시 30분 (
- 나는 그 문제에 대해 내 의견을 표현하는 방법을 찾는데 어려움을 겪고 있고, Mtking은 나를 위해 그것을 알아냈다.나는 그 블록을 지지하는 이유는 아무나 "악"이라고 부르는 것은 좀 (많이) 어긋난다고 생각하기 때문이다.나는 또한 Dream Focus가 그것을 웃기려고 의도했을지도 모른다고 생각하기 때문에 Unblock을 지지한다. 왜냐하면 Dream Focus는 그것을 일부러 웃기 위한 싸움으로 묘사하고 있지 않고 진지하게 묘사하고 있지 않으며, 나는 Block을 연장하지 않고도 지금쯤은 포인트를 얻을 수 있을 만큼 똑똑하다고 생각하기 때문이다.--v/r - TP 14:10, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 현재의 블록은 좋은 블록이었다 - DF의 미사여구는 수용성의 지점을 통과했다.차단된 후에도 인신공격(사람들을 "악"이라고 부름)과 전쟁터 행동에 대해 다시 전화할 마음이 없거나 없는 것으로 보아, 나는 X일수가 마법처럼 여기서 문제를 해결할 것이라고 생각하지 않으며, 또한 그 블록을 변명으로 전환하는 것을 지지할 것이다.변명을 권고함에 있어서, 나는 전통적인 의미에서, 끝점이 고정되어 있지 않지만 영원히 지속되도록 의도된 블록은 없다는 것을 의미한다.DF가 그의 현재 약혼 스타일이 용납될 수 없다는 것을 이해하고 그것을 고치려고 한다는 것을 보여줄 수 있게 되는 즉시, 나는 그의 문제적인 약혼 스타일에도 불구하고, 그의 마음속에는 위키피디아의 최고의 관심사가 있고, 그를 영구적으로 잃는 것은 부끄러운 일이 될 것이다.참고: 어제 DF의 차단 해제 요청은 검토 관리자 한 명이 아니라 이 ANI에서 블록을 결정해야 한다는 메모와 함께 보류했다. 그때는 여기서 언급할 생각은 없었지만, 지금 내가 차단되지 않은 요청을 보류하는 것이 문제가 된다고 생각되면, 나는 보류 상태를 다른 사람이 조정/취소/해제하는 것에 대해 반대하지 않는다. 플루퍼넛은 샌드위치! (토크) 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC) 14:16, 하라
- 지지 언블록: 인용되고 있는 꿈의 논평은 내가 기억할 수 있는 한 블록을 가지고 그가 몇 년 동안 어떻게 살아왔는지와 다르지 않다.먼저 어떤 종류의 논의가 적절했을 것이다.그렇지 않았다면 과거에도 '침입주의 탈레반' 등의 댓글과 ARS가 불려온 내용들이 대량으로 쏟아져 나오는 것을 볼 수 있었을 것이다.두 가지 잘못은 옳다고 할 수는 없지만, 인터넷 드라마를 만드는 것은 그렇다.--밀로운트 • 15:11, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 그 "탈리반" 논평은 다른 관리자에 의해 충격을 받았고 편집자는 경고했다.그러나 그것은 하나의 사건이다 - DF와 다른 ARS 편집자들은 수년 동안 이 일을 해왔으며, 누군가 그들을 비난할 수 있다면 큰 소리로 꽥꽥거리고 있다.위에서 보면 DF는 차단된 후에도 여전히 연대 편집을 이해하지 못하고 있는 것이 분명하다(위로부터 - "악"이라는 단어가 정확히 같은 의미의 것으로 대체되는 것이 정말 문제가 된다면"). 그들을 "나쁜" 삭제주의자로 지칭하라. 그리고 그는 사실 FeydHuxtable과 같은 다른 ARS 편집자들로부터 도움을 받지 못한다. (어제 조차도 DF가 차단된 것과 정확히 같은 언어를 사용하고 있었다.)ARS의 분별 있는 구성원들은 반드시 머리를 들고 앉아 있어야 한다. 86.174.213.12 (대화) 18:28, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- '탈리반' 사건은 하나의 실례에 불과해, 하나의 사건이 잘못됐다고 주장하고 있다.ARS의 감각적인 멤버들?오바마와 같은 이 지푸라기 같은 사람들은 누구인가 하면 "아, 오늘 우리는 또 다른 편집자와 가치 있는 내용을 잃었지만 월 스트리트가 원했던 것"이라고 고개를 가로젓는다.아니, 끔찍한 AfD 지명을 보면 그렇게 외쳐.AfD 후보 지명의 90%는 괜찮다. 나를 걱정하는 것은 나쁜 EABLE 후보지명이다.--Milowent • 21:10, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 지원 블록은 아니지만(확실히 DF가 문제를 볼 것이라는 근거에서) 변혁으로 전환한다.Milowent는 DF가"그는 몇 년 동안 살아왔다"는식으로 행동해왔다고 해서, 그는 격전지적 사고방식을 없애라는 충고를 받았지만 거절했다.아마도 일주일 정도는 그가 충고를 진지하게 받아들이는데 도움이 될 것이다.건배, 린제이Hello 19:49, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 누군가가 항상 하는 일을 경고 없이 차단하는 것은 변덕스러운 일이다.--밀로웬트 • 21:10, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 그는 "전장 사고방식을 없애라고 강력히 권고했지만 거절했다"고 말했다.아니, 대부분의 사람들이 괜찮다고 했어.ARS를 끊임없이 모욕하고 AFD에서 나와 다투는 것을 보는 몇 안 되는 사람들이 불평을 늘어놓는 사람들이다. 나는 규칙을 어기지 않았고, 어떤 것에 대해서도 공식적인 경고를 받지 않았다.어떤 사람들은 위키피디아와 관련된 문제에 대해 자신의 의견을 게시하는 사람들이 단순히 무언가에 대해 동의하지 않는다면 "전장 심리"라고 생각한다. 드림 포커스 20:25, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[posted from user talk. AniMate 21:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
- 누군가가 항상 하는 일을 경고 없이 차단하는 것은 변덕스러운 일이다.--밀로웬트 • 21:10, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 코멘트 – 모두가 드림 포커스와 그의 태도, ARS를 비판하려고 하지만, 여기에서는 아무도 고려할 만한 "안전선"을 제시하지 않은 것 같다.DF가 여기서 글을 읽고 종종 댓글에 반응하는 것을 볼 때, 아마도 그는 이 점을 고려해 스스로 호의를 베풀 수도 있을 것이다.ARS가 목적을 위한 수단이라고 가정하고, 그것을 정당화시켜 달라고 하자.{{recovery}} 템플릿은 편집자들에게 AfD의 기사가 정말 주목할 만하다는 것을 우려한 편집자들에게 주는 수단으로 제공되었다.나는 DF/ARS의 "성공률"에 관심이 있다. 즉, 100개 종목에 출전하지만 결코 높은 점수를 받지 못하는 스포츠맨은 10개의 타이틀을 가진 선수에 비해 별로 좋지 않다.유사한 방법으로, DF/ARS가 스터브/스타트 레벨 이상으로 개발되지 않은 100개의 스텁을 AfD로부터 구했다면 아무도 감사하지 않을 것이다.내가 알고 싶은 것은 DF가 ARS의 일부로서 실제로 구조된 모든 AfDs의 이름을 지을 수 있는가 하는 것이다. 그들은 구조 직후에 GA 또는 심지어 FA 지위로 발전했고 따라서 유지할 가치가 있었다.아마도 ARS를 정당화함으로써 DF는 삭제에 대한 그의 태도를 전적으로 옹호하기보다는 그의 역할을 정당화할 수 있을 것이다.보존/침해로부터 좋은 점이 있다면, 자랑할 만한 정당한 보상도 분명히 있는가?Ma®usBritish 23:06, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 블록 규칙적으로 가식적인 편집자인데 프로세스를 방해하는 걸 좋아하거든.또한, 그룹이 백과사전의 정상적인 과정을 벗어나서 면제되는 것을 통해 받아들이기 시작할 때, 그것은 보통 좋은 징조가 아니라는 것을 주목하라, WP:에스페란자를 참조하라.MBisanztalk 00:13, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 어떤 프로세스를 방해하고 있는가?이것의 한 예를 링크해 주시겠습니까? 드림 포커스 00:32, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- COI 편집, 삭제 프로세스, 삭제 프로세스, 삭제 프로세스(WP:V/BLP), 삭제 검토MBisanztalk 06:36, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 내가 단순한 실수를 하고, 되돌아가고, 그 문제를 더 이상 추구하지 않는 곳으로 연결된다.한 번도 실수해 본 적 없니?그게 누군가를 막는 이유야?두 번째 링크는 내가 어떤 편집자가 구조대에게 태깅을 해서는 안 된다고 불평하는 것을 태깅하여 비난하고 있는 누군가에게 응답하는 것을 보여준다. 그리고 나는 그 사람이 동물원 채식주의 같은 것에 대해 우리를 괴롭히기 위해 태깅한 이전 기사를 언급한다.나는 그것의 정확한 이름을 기억하지 못한다.그런 다음 나는 이미 설명한 농담을 하는데, 대부분의 사람들은 ARS가 삭제되었으므로 "어쨌든, 삭제주의자들의 사악한 무리들이 마침내 우리를 끌어들인 것 같으니까 이제 상관없어"라고 분명히 말했다.너의 세 번째 연결고리는 전혀 말이 안 된다.여기서 무슨 불평을 하는 거야?[28] 그런 다음 AFD로 연결하면, 다른 것들 중에서도, 세시미 스트리트에 관한 믿을 만한 뉴스 출처에 보도된 모든 루머는 별도의 기사에 포함되어야 한다고 생각하는 반면, 일부는 기존의 캐릭터 기사 자체에 포함되어야 한다고 생각하거나 아예 특집되지 않아야 한다고 생각했다.[29] 당신은 사물에 대한 나의 입장에 동의하지 않기 때문에 나를 차단하려는 것인가?다음 링크는 내가 이미 "무심하게 삭제주의적인 드론"이라고 한 것을 후회한다고 말한 것인데, 나는 평이 좋은 음악을 수백만 명이 듣고 있고, 그에 대해 믿을 만한 출처에서 자세히 인터뷰한 사람이 삭제된 것을 보고 그저 기절할 뿐이었다.나는 왜 그 기사가 분명히 눈에 띄었는지에 대해 충분한 연결고리와 합리적인 이유를 제시했는데, 그것은 물론이다.이 블록이 해제되면 삭제 검토하도록 하겠다. Dream Focus 09:26, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)사용자 토크 09:55, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- COI 편집, 삭제 프로세스, 삭제 프로세스, 삭제 프로세스(WP:V/BLP), 삭제 검토MBisanztalk 06:36, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 어떤 프로세스를 방해하고 있는가?이것의 한 예를 링크해 주시겠습니까? 드림 포커스 00:32, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 지원 블록 및 사용자 대화에서의 최근 의견:드림 포커스(여기 복사)는 지역사회와의 협업에 관한 설득력 있는 진술이 나올 때까지 그 블록을 무기한으로 확장해야 한다.악의적인 삭제론자들이 문제라는 밈은 상호 지지적인 소수의 편집자들 때문에 통제할 수 없게 되었다. 즉, 더 오랜 시간이 흐를수록 그들은 WP에 반대하는 사람들이 다음과 같이 자신들을 더 많이 확신시킬 것이다.BLP1E 또는 WP:NOTNEWS 위반은 악임에 틀림없다.드라마 없이 백과사전의 발전을 위해 힘써주길 바란다.차단되지 않은 모든 요청은 사용자로부터 블로그와 호통을 제거하기 위한 사업을 동반해야 한다.드림 포커스.조누니크 (대화) 00:54, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 아주 나쁜 차단이군, 먼저 경고를 했어야 했어.당신이 공동체 규범에 어긋난다고 판단되기 때문에 당신이 차단될 수 있는 어떤 진술을 한다고 상상해보라.논쟁을 위해서 우리는 그 진술이 실제로 공동체 규범에 어긋난다고 가정할 수 있다(예: 일부 나중에 AN/I 실이 분명히 밝혀질 것이다).그렇다면 위키피디아를 보호하기 위한 긴급조치로서 블록이 필요하지 않았다면(여기서 논의하고 있는 것처럼 부적절한 코멘트의 경우에는 거의 가능성이 없다), 당신의 블록은 어떤 문제도 막지 못했을 것이다.위키피디아의 차단 정책을 위반하는 것과 별도로, 그 차단 또한 역효과를 낳는다.문제는 당신이 그것을 만들었을 때 당신의 논평이 최고를 넘지 않았다고 느꼈을 수도 있지만, 당신은 원칙적으로 이러한 종류의 논평이 여기서 만들어지면 안 된다는 것을 설득할 수 있다는 것이다.하지만, 당신이 지금 막혔기 때문에, 그것은 당신을 다르게 논쟁하게 만들 것이다.당신은 지금 당신의 의견을 옹호할지도 모른다. 왜냐하면 그들이 공동체 규범에 위배된다 하더라도, 그들이 상위권을 많이 넘지 않았기 때문에 그것이 (당신의 POV로부터) 차단을 초래했어야 했기 때문이다.그래서, 이제 초점이 댓글에서 블록으로 옮겨가고, 그것이 당신을 파고들게 한다.최종 결과는 블록이 해제되었을 때, 당신이 다른 방법으로 했을 수 있는 만큼 당신의 코멘트에 대한 커뮤니티의 피드백을 참여시키지 않는 것일 수도 있다.커뮤니티에서 지원하는 여러 경고 후에도 부적절한 발언을 계속하면 언제든지 차단될 수 있다.이런 경우 부적절한 댓글을 작성할 때 사전에 경고받은 커뮤니티 규범을 위반하는 의도적인 선택을 하게 된다.아이블리스 카운트 (토크) 00:56, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 지지 블록: DF의 전장의 사고방식과 비도덕성은 오랫동안 서 있는 문제였다.이 토론에서조차 그는 자신이 부적절한 행동을 했다는 사실을 파악하지 못하는 듯 하며, 자신의 행동을 개선하기 위한 어떤 진실하고 회한적인 결심을 보여주기 보다는, 의견 일치와 동료 편집자들에 대한 경솔한 무시로 경멸한다.나는 그가 요점을 이해하고 그의 방식을 바꾸겠다고 진심으로 약속할 때까지 그 블록을 "즉시"로 확장하는 것에 반대하지 않을 것이다.도미너스 보비스두(토크) 03:33, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 블록을 뒤집다. 그는 무뚝뚝하고 과장된 것을 좋아할지 모르지만, 누군가가 "WP:내가 항상 듣고 싶은 것을 말해라" 나는 이 프로젝트가 적극적으로 파괴적인 경우를 위해 이러한 유형의 조치를 예약하는 것이 더 낫다고 생각한다.그의 토크 페이지에서의 그러핑은 내가 생각할 수 있는 일종의 소극적인 표현으로 보인다.Fortherofbacon (talk) 09:13, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 혼란스럽다.내가 맥락을 놓칠 수 있었을까?위키피디아 정책 하에서 편집자가 기사 내용이 더 없는 한 삭제주의나 삭제주의자를 계급악이라고 부르는 것을 막을 수 있는 방법은 도대체 없으며, 그렇게 하는 것은 분열주의의 한 편을 드는 것이다.삭제주의는 일종의 악이다.그럼, 날 막을 거야?그렇지 않으면 지각 있는 선량한 사람들이 왜 다른 사람들의 기부를 취소하는 것이 그들의 긴급한 사업으로 만들 것인가에 대한 심각한 생각이 있으며, 어떤 사람들은 이것이 한편으로는 문제 있는 태도라고 말하고, 다른 한편으로는 위키피디아에서 잘못 처리한다고 말할 것이다.나는 기사 구조 대대에 관한 현재의 위키백과나 이로 인해 야기된 어떤 논쟁도 놓쳤다는 것을 알고 있다.그리고 확실히, 의심스러운 주의사항들에 대한 대부분의 새로운 페이지들은 백과사전에 적합하지 않다.그런데 어떻게 이런 일이 생겼을까?블록이 혼란을 방지해야 한다면, 자신의 페이지에서 삭제주의에 대한 난간으로 인해 어떤 혼란이 일어날 수 있는가? - 위키데몬 (토크) 09:16, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
세 문제
위의 논의는 세 개의 개별적인 질문이 마치 하나의 질문인 것처럼 논의되고 있기 때문에 부분적으로 복잡하다.(허위 이분법 참조).2012년 1월 23일(UTC) 아무도 참여하지 않는다[하라
블록이 좋았어?
아니다. 편집자의 부적절한 행동은 블록에 필요한 조건이지만, 충분하지 않다.DF는 2009년 [30] 이후 유사한 행동을 해오고 있다. 공동체가 이러한 행동을 용인한 지 오래되었다는 사실은 보다 적은 제재를 우회할 긴급한 필요가 없음을 시사한다.WP:RFC/U 등"일하지 않은 것"은 선의의 결여를 보여준다.WP:NOTBUREAU의 기둥은 WP-이것과 WP가 기사의 개선에 방해가 되지 않게 하기 위해 존재하며, 위반되는 합의와 민의를 정당화하려는 것이 아니다.(편집자를 참여시키지 않고 차단하는 것만으로 무례한 것은 우선 제재가 덜한 것이고, 가벼운 장기 교란에 기초한 블록에 대한 합의는 블록 이전에 이루어져야 한다.)2012년 1월 23일(UTC) 아무도 참여하지 않는다[하라
- 나는 그 의견에 동의한다.키퍼라고 상상해봐울포위츠는 위키피디아 대신 다른 편집자를 폄하하는 첫 번째 (또는 두 번째) 시간에 막혔다.요청_for_comment/Kiefer.울포위츠.그 후 그가 다른 사람을 폄하하지 않았을 가능성도 있지만(그러나 그다지 그럴듯하지는 않다) 위키백과 역시 그의 다른 모든 기여를 박탈당했을 것이다.드림 포커스는 백과사전을 만드는 일을 가끔 하는 것처럼 보인다.ASCIIn2Bme (대화) 01:56, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 예 WP:BATtle, 그리고 개인과 그룹의 사람들을 "악"으로 재조명 (토크→ BWilkins ←track) 12:44, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
DF의 행동이 적절한가?
No. Nobody Ent 22:05, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 나는 가장 부적절한 부분은 그가 그 문제를 다른 쪽에서 보거나 과장이 역효과를 낼 수 있다는 것을 받아들이는 것을 무능하거나 꺼리는 것이라고 생각한다.그는 WP라는 속담에 안장된 것 같다.현시점에서는 데드호스(Deadhors)가, 비록 무뚝뚝한 대립이 때로는 그런 영향을 미칠 수 있지만.ASCIIn2Bme (대화) 02:24, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 지옥의 노(Hell no) 그리고 단순히 "악"을 "나쁜 것"으로 대체하고 여전히 그것을 할 수 있다고 끊임없이 제안함으로써 이해 부족, 성실성 결여, 무능함 등이 12:45, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
DF 차단을 해제해야 함
아니다. 블록이 부적절했음에도 불구하고, DF의 블록 해제에 대한 주장은 그들이 "그것을 이해하지 못한다"는 것을 나타낸다.나는 DF가 일련의 적절한 행동에 동의하는 즉시 즉시 차단해제를 지지할 것이다.2012년 1월 23일(UTC) 아무도 참여하지 않는다[하라
- 네가 말하는 "적절한 행동"이 무엇인지 정확히 말해줄 수 있니?막연해하지 말고 어떻게든 내가 너의 마음을 읽기를 바라.나는 "악"이라는 단어를 "나쁜 것"으로 바꾸면 그 문제를 해결할 수 있냐고 물었다.아무도 그것에 대해 나에게 대답하지 않았다.구체적으로 말해야 해. 꿈 포커스 22:16, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC) Goodvac (토크) 22:44, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 악을 악으로 바꾸는 것도 효과가 없을 것이다.여전히 같은 전쟁터 정신이다.너와 의견이 다른 사람들은 나쁘지도 않고 악하지도 않아. 네가 그들을 그렇게 쳐다보는 것을 멈출 때까지 난 네가 차단당해야 한다고 확신할 수 없어.AniMate 23:00, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 "NPA는 여기서 유효하지 않다"고 말한다.인용된 텍스트는 정책에서 직접 가져온 것이며, 코롤러리는 내 것이다.
- 인신공격은 "다른 기고자에 대한 모욕적 논평"이다.기여자의 이름을 지정하거나 식별할 필요가 없다.분명히 당신은 몇몇 또는 몇몇 기여자들에 대해 말하고 있다.그리고 그 논평은 경멸적이다."위키피디아는 긍정적인 온라인 커뮤니티를 장려한다."당신은 긍정적인 결과를 얻거나 긍정적인 편집 환경을 강화하지 못하고 있으며 사실 불화를 조장하고 있다.논평은 "사람보다 내용과 행동으로 향해야 한다."다시 한번 말하지만 당신은 당신의 의견이 내용이나 행동이 아닌 사람에 대한 것이라는 것을 알기 위해 그 사람의 이름을 댈 필요가 없다."편집자들은 이견을 설명할 때 예의 바르게 행동해야 하고 좋은 위키 에티켓을 지켜야 한다."'특정 위키백과 관련 문제'를 기술하고 있다는 당신의 설명에도 불구하고, 당신은 예의 바른 위키 예절을 따르고자 하는 첫 번째 부분을 따르고 있지 않다.'절대 용납할 수 없는' 구체적인 '댓글 유형'의 예로는, '어드 호미넴(ad hominem)의 방법으로 누군가의 소속을 이용하는 것'이 있다.제휴관계는 삭제주의자로, 광고 호미넴은 사악하거나 악한 것과 동등하거나 '의심 없이 삭제주의적인 언사를 내뱉고 파괴하려 한다'는 것과 같은 수단은 그들의 견해를 무시하고 신용을 떨어뜨리는 것이다.편집자를 모욕하거나 비하하는 것은 어떤 식으로든 인신공격이다"고 말했다.과장된 유머로는 그 비판적인 발언을 정당화하지 못한다."적대의 패턴은... 파괴적인 편집으로 간주될 수 있다."또 다른 질문에도 답해 주는데 어디서 파괴를 당했는지 알고 싶어하거든요컨대, 나는 NPA가 적용되지 않는다는 너의 전제에 동의하지 않는다.다음 조치는 당신의 것이고, 차단되지 않고, 성실하고, 모든 BFM 허튼소리들을 줄여달라는 시민적 요청을 하는 것이다.My76Strat (대화) 04:27, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 비록 나는 블록을 줄일 수 있다고 생각하지만, 형용사를 교환하는 것이 이것이 다시 잘려나가는 것을 막지는 못할 것이라고 생각한다.때때로 작은 스나크는 다소 무해하다. (열린 편집은 실의에 빠진 사람들을 위한 것이 아니다.다른 편집자들을 "악" 혹은 "나쁘다"라고 부르는 것은 단지 상황을 자극하고, 사람들을 화나게 하고, 일을 방해하고, 편집 속도를 늦추기 때문에 대부분 창백한 수준을 넘어선다.게다가, 나는 수년 전에 강력한 삭제론자로서 이곳에서 편집을 시작했다.조금씩 조금씩, 나는 매우 강한 포용주의자가 되었다.나는 심지어 대담하게도 그곳이 바로 그 곳이라고 말할 것이다.WP는 비록 몇 년이 걸릴지 모르지만 향하고 있다.한편 나는 소수의 나쁜 믿음, 많은 선의, 잘못된 판단, 그리고 그다지 잘못되지 않은 포용주의자와 삭제주의자들이 있다고 생각한다.'악질 삭제론자'에 대한 이야기 등 가짜 변증법을 세우는 것이 WP:배틀그라운드다.그웬 게일 (토크) 00:01, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 나를 나쁜 편집자라고 부르는 것에 동의하지 않는 사람들은 괜찮지만, 나는 그들에게 똑같이 할 수 없다?WP를 따르지 않고 나쁜 편집자만 삭제 대상으로 지명할 수 있는가?구글 뉴스 검색을 하기 전에?나쁜 편집자들만 같은 기사를 두 번 이상 삭제하도록 지명할 수 있을까?남들이 열심히 노력한 것을 가져다가 무심코 '짝퉁'이라고 부숴버리고, 누군가를 나쁜 사람으로 만들지 않을까?나는 특정 규칙을 위반하는 기사를 말하는 것이 아니다.나는 단순히 싫다는 이유로 무언가를 파괴하려고 하는 사람들을 말하는 거야.그것은 내게 꽤 사악해 보인다.그러나 다시 한번 말하지만, 이것은 나의 사용자 페이지에만 있는 것이며, 나는 누구를 이름으로 불러내거나, 그들의 토크 페이지에 글을 올리거나, 그들의 행동이 AFDS나 기사 토크 페이지 동안 얼마나 야만적인지에 대해 언급하지는 않는다.사람들이 어떻게 생각하는지 검열할 수 없어. 그리고 나는 어떤 명백한 거짓과 강요된 미소를 지을 이유가 없다고 봐.드림 포커스 23:14, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)
- 넌 전쟁터 정신에 정말 문제가 있어.어떤 편집자들이 무심코 기사를 삭제해 버리는 경우는 거의 없다.당신과 의견이 다른 사람들에게 사악한 동기나 어리석음을 부여하는 것은 이 블록을 단축시키지 못할 것이다.솔직히, 네가 사용자 페이지에서 몇 개의 문장을 삭제하는 것에 동의할 때까지 나는 네가 차단된 채로 있어야 한다고 생각해.애니메이트 03:24, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 나를 나쁜 편집자라고 부르는 것에 동의하지 않는 사람들은 괜찮지만, 나는 그들에게 똑같이 할 수 없다?WP를 따르지 않고 나쁜 편집자만 삭제 대상으로 지명할 수 있는가?구글 뉴스 검색을 하기 전에?나쁜 편집자들만 같은 기사를 두 번 이상 삭제하도록 지명할 수 있을까?남들이 열심히 노력한 것을 가져다가 무심코 '짝퉁'이라고 부숴버리고, 누군가를 나쁜 사람으로 만들지 않을까?나는 특정 규칙을 위반하는 기사를 말하는 것이 아니다.나는 단순히 싫다는 이유로 무언가를 파괴하려고 하는 사람들을 말하는 거야.그것은 내게 꽤 사악해 보인다.그러나 다시 한번 말하지만, 이것은 나의 사용자 페이지에만 있는 것이며, 나는 누구를 이름으로 불러내거나, 그들의 토크 페이지에 글을 올리거나, 그들의 행동이 AFDS나 기사 토크 페이지 동안 얼마나 야만적인지에 대해 언급하지는 않는다.사람들이 어떻게 생각하는지 검열할 수 없어. 그리고 나는 어떤 명백한 거짓과 강요된 미소를 지을 이유가 없다고 봐.드림 포커스 23:14, 2012년 1월 23일 (UTC)
- 나는 기존 블록을 전적으로 지지하지만, 이 실에서 너의 논리를 따르지 않는다.세 가지 요점을 짚어보면, "이 초기 블록은 잘못된 것이었지만, 그것을 지켜야 할 뿐만 아니라, 그것은 변명의 장으로 확장되어야 한다"는 것이다.나는 지금 이 블록을 고수하는 것이 더 나은 접근법이라고 생각하고, 그 다음에 그가 배틀그라운드 사고방식을 따라간다면 더 긴 Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 00 00 00:55, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[]을 그에게 주어라
나는 이 블록의 어떤 측면도 지지하지 않고 그것이 적용된 추리에 대해 심각하게 의문을 제기한다.나는 확실히 그의 귀환을 위해 어떤 조건도 DF에 두어서는 안 된다고 생각한다.내 사용자 페이지에 내가 스펙트럼의 포용주의적 종말에 더 가깝다고 말하는 것은 내가 WP:B를 옹호하고 있다는 것을 의미한다.나와 같은 통합론자와 삭제론자 사이의 AT틀필드?
사실은 WP이다.AFD는 현재 삭제주의자의 천국이다.사람들은 그 기사를 가장 얕게 읽는 것에 관한 기사를 지명하며, WP 어느 쪽에도 거의 관심을 기울이지 않는다.또는 WP 이전:삭제#고려 가이드 151개 학교 기사는 크리스마스/신년을 전후해 3주 이내에 한 명의 사용자가 심각하게 WP:WPSCH는 각각의 AfD를 그것의 장점에 대해 실제로 고려할 수 있는 능력이다.그러한 지명들 중 몇몇은 서로 몇 분 이내에 이루어졌으며, 나는 WP가 다음과 같이 강력하게 의심한다.이전 및 WP:Deletion#Definitions에 대한 안내가 이어졌다.
이것은 많은 사람들이 이미 언급된 모든 것을 거의 고려하지 않고 AfD에서 투표하는 것처럼 보인다는 사실 때문에 더욱 복잡하다.그들은 제목을 보고, 그것을 클릭할 수도 있고, 그 문제에 대한 그들의 감정을 가지고 투표할 수도 있다.이것은 초등학교와 같은 상황을 초래한다. 말 그대로 그들을 삭제로부터 구할 수 있는 것이 거의 없는, 학교의 나이도, 성취도, 학교에 부여된 어떤 특별한 지위도, 아무것도.공정이 깨지다.DF는 그 상황에 대한 불만을 토로하고 있었다.˜단젤 [토크 기여 ] 02:29, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- Epeefleche는 어떻게 DF의 계속되는 불친절함에 대한 변명을 위해 기사를 지명하는가?에페플레쉬라는 글과 관련하여 (그리고 공정하게 말하면, 훨씬 적은 숫자로도 몇 명의 AfDs를 지명하는 데 그와 합류했다.)에페플레슈는 그 주제에 대한 대략적인 합의를 바탕으로 몇 년 동안 존재해 온 혼란스러운 상황을 간단히 정리하고 있었다.그 합의는 초등학교는 나이나 상을 막론하고 본질적으로 불성실하다는 것이다(사건적으로, 어떤 것의 나이는 어떤 주제에 대해서도 불성실성이나 불성실성의 지표가 아니다).그런 공감대가 마음에 들지 않는다면 디폴트(채무불이행)가 모든 학교가 돼야 한다는 폭넓은 논의를 만들어라.그리고 기억하라, WP:BEX는 정책이 아니다; 항상 실행될 필요는 없다.이건 에페플레슈의 잘못이 아니라, 바로 DF의 퍼플백팩89≈≈ 02 02:54, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 넌 완전히 틀렸어.초등/초등 학교는 "일관적으로" 통보할 수 없다(WP: 참조).결과#학교 및 WP:합의된 생성 정책 또는 지침이 어디에 명시되어 있는지 보여줄 수 없다면 WPSCH/AG)모든 기관과 마찬가지로, 초등학교는 다른 방법으로 보여질 수 없는 한 일반적으로 눈에 띄지 않는다.이것은 AfD에서 여러번 당신에게 지적되어 왔다.
- 하지만 너의 답변은 실제로 문제를 나타내는데 고마워.당신은 상황을 완전히 오해하고 AfD에 와서 그렇게 투표한다.그것은 당신이 AfD를 WP:B로 바꾼다는 것을 의미한다.아틀그라운드 왜냐하면 투표에서 그러한 오해를 가진 사람들이 이미 존재하는 의제를 가지고 그러한 토론을 하지 않는 사람들보다 더 많기 때문이다.˜단젤 [토크 기여 ] 03:59, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 별도로, 그리고 내가 그것을 언급하기 전에 나의 마음이 멍해졌기 때문에, 당신의 WP에 대한 당신의 견해에 나타난 "AfD 먼저, 나중에 질문하라":실행되지 않아도 되기 전에 정말 문제가 있다.WP:AFD isnotWP:Cleaning. ˜danjel [토크 기여 ] 04:19, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- "본질적으로 눈에 띄지 않는" 것과 "논리적으로 눈에 띄지 않는" 것의 차이점은 무엇인가?게다가, 왜 모든 것의 학교 관련 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부로 주제를 바꾸2012년YO! 1월 24일 04:11 (UTC)[
- 나는 "본질적으로 불성실하지 않다"고 말했다. 즉, 모든 초등학교가 불성실하다는 것은 아니다.너는 나에 대한 너의 인용구에서 "non"을 놓친 것 같다.
- 학교 기사를 예로 들어보자. 왜냐하면 나는 학교 기사와 관련이 있기 때문이다. WP:AFD는 이미 "삭제주의자"의 경기장이다.˜단젤 [토크 기여 ] 04:19, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 음, 이 논의의 요점은 "삭제주의자", "불합리주의자" 등등을 부르면서 돌아다니는 것은 좋지 않다는 것이다.특히 당신이 "flatout deadset" 코멘트로 위험할 정도로 NPA에 근접하고 있기 때문에.내가 네 말을 따르지 않아서 그런 말을 하는 것 같아, 이해가 안 돼.그것은 옳지 않으며, 드림포커스 퍼플백팩89≈≈≈ 04 04:25, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[]과도 관계가 없다
- (갈등 편집).초등학교나 초등학교는 거의 공신력 기준을 통과하지 못하며, 독립된 기사가 있어서는 안 된다는 공감대가 오랫동안 형성되어 있다.그렇다고 해서 공감대를 형성하는 데 관여하는 모든 사람들이 "삭제주의자"라는 뜻은 아니다. 내가 언급했듯이, 위키피디아 사람들은 실제로 자신들을 "삭제주의자"라고 인식한다.이것은 단지 이 상황의 근본 원인이자 ARS의 한 부분에 대한 전반적인 문제인 us-vs-them 수사일 뿐이다.비블브록스 (대화) 04:26, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 문제에 대해 내 나름대로의 의견을 가지고 있는데, 그것은 관련이 없기 때문에 여기서 공유하지는 않겠지만, "네가 틀렸다, 네가 틀렸다"고 소리치는 것은 상황을 악화시키는 데 도움이 되지 않는다고 말할 것이다.'악질 삭제론자' 발언으로 일주일 동안 막혔던 사람을 "그들이 일으킨 반응이었다, 자기들 잘못이다"라고 총칼로 달려들어 방어하려는 것은 좋은 생각이 아니다!!!!그것에 대처하는 더 건설적인 방법들이 있고, 나는 이것이 행동 지침보다 이념을 고수하는 전형적인 수사학적 허풍처럼 들린다는 것에 동의한다.북빛의 칼날 (話して下い) 04:33, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[하라
- Purplebackpack89: 만약 "flatout deadset"이라는 내 말이 틀렸다면, 초등학교가 정책이나 가이드라인에서 "일관적으로" 불통이라는 것이 어디에 명시되어 있는가를 가리키면서 내가 얼마나 틀렸는지 보여줘.그때까지만 해도 DF가 좌절하는 것처럼 보였던 AfD의 문제점을 상당히 적절하게 보여주는 당신의 완전히 잘못된 진술에 대한 완벽하게 유효한 평가다.이것은 "toe-ing [my] line"에 관한 것이 아니다(나의 라인이 정책/지침에 어긋난다는 것을 지적할 수 있을 때까지, 그리고 당신이 정말로 초등학교는 본질적으로 통고할 수 없다는 것이 옳다는 것을 지적할 수 있을 때까지), 이것은 유감스럽게도 AfD의 상황을 상당히 대표하는 완전히 잘못된 진술에 관한 것이다.
- Beeblebrox: "Albe never"는 그들이 "논리적으로 불통"이라는 것을 의미하지 않는다. 단지 그들이 실제로 반대한다는 것이다.내가 지적하는 것은 문제인데, AfD의 추진은 기사들을 삭제하는 것이다. 즉, 삭제론자.그것에 대한 DF 난간은 AfD에서의 사고방식을 다루면서 편집자들이 느끼는 좌절감의 증상이다.
- 북부 빛의 칼날: 에스컬레이션 금지.나는 단지 DF가 말한 것의 밑바탕에 있는 문제를 지적하고 있을 뿐이다.퍼플백팩89는 나를 위해 그 문제를 더욱 증명해 보이기로 자신의 의지로 결정했다.˜단젤 [토크 기여 ] 04:40, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 음, 이 논의의 요점은 "삭제주의자", "불합리주의자" 등등을 부르면서 돌아다니는 것은 좋지 않다는 것이다.특히 당신이 "flatout deadset" 코멘트로 위험할 정도로 NPA에 근접하고 있기 때문에.내가 네 말을 따르지 않아서 그런 말을 하는 것 같아, 이해가 안 돼.그것은 옳지 않으며, 드림포커스 퍼플백팩89≈≈≈ 04 04:25, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[]과도 관계가 없다
- "본질적으로 눈에 띄지 않는" 것과 "논리적으로 눈에 띄지 않는" 것의 차이점은 무엇인가?게다가, 왜 모든 것의 학교 관련 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부형 학부로 주제를 바꾸2012년YO! 1월 24일 04:11 (UTC)[
- 학교의 공신력이 DF블록 섹션과 어떻게 관련이 있는지 잘 모르겠지만 몇 가지 질문이 있었다.이제 인정하건대 나는 이 사용자/사건의 표면만 살펴봤을 뿐 몇 가지 항목이 떠오른다.
- 불쾌감을 주는 논평은 식별된 편집자가 아닌 정의되지 않은 편집자(삭제주의자)의 하위 집합에서 이루어졌다.나는 일부 편집자들이 그들 자신을 그렇게 자명하게 할 수도 있다는 것을 이해한다. 그러나 여전히 ...
- 마지막 블록(내가 볼 수 있는 한)은 2009년에 돌아왔고, 1주/현재 블록이 부과된 시점에는 총 2블록밖에 없었다.
- 나는 DF에 분명히 문제가 있다는 것을 이해한다. 왜냐하면 DF는 (블록이) 업그레이드 되어야 한다고 말하는 사람들이 있기 때문이다.나는 이것이 우리의 wp:civ와 wp:npa 정책에 대한 존중이라고 생각한다.나는 우리가 여기서 참고할 수 있는 최종 해결책이 아직 게시되지 않았다는 것을 주목한다.
- 삭제론자 대 포용론자 규모는 큰데, 양극단의 양 끝에 사람들이 있고, 더 나아가서 중간을 향해 있다.나는 또한 여기 있는 어떤 사람을 "악" 또는 "나쁜 사람"으로 그리는 것이 잘못되었다는 것에 동의한다 - 우리는 단지 우리의 정책이 지시하는 것과 우리가 백과사전이라고 여기는 것에 대해 다른 견해를 가지고 있을 뿐이다.
- 나는 최근에 발행된 12/24/31/48시간 블록이 없다는 점에서 블록의 에스컬레이션은 없었다는 점에 주목한다. 그러나 우리는 곧장 일주일간으로 갔다.
이제, 이 블록을 전적으로 지지하는 사람들이 있고, 또는 변명의 여지가 있다는 점을 감안할 때, 나는 몇 가지 질문이 있다.
- 차단 전에 DF에 경고가 있었는가?우리는 전형적으로 "나는 똥을 좋아한다"는 반달들에게도 4가지 경고를 제공한다.
- 이전에 중단 패턴을 보이는 AN 또는 AN/I 스레드가 있었는가?
- 이것이 어떻게 예방적이었을까?겉으로 보기에 그것은 징벌적인 것 같다.이 "악" 논평들이 진행중인 것이었는가?
- DF의 행동을 용납할 수 없다는 것을 입증하는 RfC/U가 작성되었는가?
여기서 중요한 질문은:이런 가혹한 제재를 뒷받침할 역사와 문서는 어디에 있는가.아니면 단순히 ARS포용론자, 즉 DF를 "싫어" 하는 것인가?그리고 그렇다, 나는 DF가 그것을 몇 단계 되돌릴 필요가 있다는 것에 동의한다; 나는 단지 그에게 기회를 주어야 한다는 것이다.— Ched : ?? 11:26, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 질문.나는 DF가 블록 이후에 핵심을 파악하기를 거부하는 것은 많은 사람들이 그가 차단될 때까지 차단되어야 한다고 말하도록 부추기고 있다고 추측한다.반대로"의 선에 따라 진정으로 유화적인 반응을 보였다"는 메시지는 이해했고 나는 그 블록이 며칠 전에 시간제로 되돌아가는 것을 볼 수 있었을 것이다.스파르타즈Humbug! 11:32, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 이미 많은 사람들이 밝혔듯이 나를 막을 정당한 이유가 없었다.분명히 아무도 경고 없이 일주일 내내 이렇게 차단된 사람은 없었다.그런데 왜 계속 되는 겁니까?나는 이미 내 사용자 페이지에 단어를 바꾸겠다고 말했다.제대로 된 대화가 이 모든 것을 불필요하게 만들 수도 있었다.이 우스꽝스러운 블록을 계속해야 할 타당한 이유가 없다.어떤 사람들은 ARS와 포섭주의자를 언급하고 심지어 AFD와 내가 감히 그들과 의견이 맞지 않는 것을 그들이 나를 차단하고 싶어하는 이유로 언급하고 있다.하지만 그것은 누군가를 차단할 타당한 이유가 아니다. Df 사용자 토크 12:18, 2012년 1월 24일(UTC)에서 복사한 Dream Focus 12:01, 2012년 1월 24일(UTC)[
- 여기에 정의가 없기 때문에 계속되고 있다.삭제에 찬성하는 역사적인 추세를 보이는 편집자들이 어떤 경멸적인 설명을 받아들일 수 있는지 묻는 DF는 완전히 요점을 놓치고 있다; 다른 편집자들을 묘사하거나 분류하는데 있어서 긍정적인 목적은 없다.다른 편집자를 논하거나, 그들의 선의에 대해 전혀 의문을 제기하지 않는 것에 동의해야 하며, 삭제 대상으로 검토되고 있는 특정 기사의 신뢰성에 대해 토론하는 것으로 엄격히 제한해야 한다.2012년 1월 24일(UTC) 12시 47분 아무도 참여하지 않는다[하라
- 나는 모든 AFD 토론은 논의되는 기사에 한정한다.하지만 나는 내 사용자 페이지에 내가 귀찮다고 생각하는 위키피디아의 변화를 나열할 권리가 있고, 어떻게 해야 하는지에 대해 생각한다.오해가 생기지 않도록 여기 저기 있는 문구만 바꾸면 돼.만약 내가 운전하는 것에 대해 불평하고 싶다면, 사람들이 그들이 좋아하지 않는 것들을 난폭한 혹은 쓰레기라고 무례하게 언급하고, 사람들이 단지 그들이 그것을 좋아하지 않는다고 해서 삭제되어야 한다고 주장하고, 위키피디아를 심각하게 받아들이지 않을 수 있는 기사나 다른 위키피디아 관련 기사들을 가지고 있는 것이 나쁘게 보이게 한다고 믿는다면, 나는 할 권리가 있다.o so. dream focus 12:57, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 잘못 알고 있는 경우: WP:OWNTAKNOBody Ent 13:11, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 당신이 "삭제주의자"에 대해 이야기하기 시작하거나 편집자들이 그들이 좋아하지 않는 것들을 삭제하기 위해 AFD를 사용하고 있다고 주장하기 시작하자마자 - 당신이 특정한 사람을 지명하지 않더라도 그것을 개인적인 것으로 만드는 - 당신은 AFD 대화를 그 내용에 관한 것에서 그 사람/공천자/사람들에 관한 것으로 옮겼어! 투표 "삭제"로.그것은 배틀그라운드 사고방식이며, 지명자/참가자의 입장에서 선의의 가정을 하지 않으며, AFD 과정의 결론에 결코 도움이 되지 않는다.인신공격을 유발하지 않으면서도 AFD에 대응하고 토론할 수 있는 방법이 있다.누군가 기사를 '팬크루프트'나 '정크'로 태그한다면, 기사가 스탠드 단독 기사에 대한 모든 WP 정책과 가이드라인을 어떻게 충족하는지 논쟁하고, 다른 사람들이 후보 지명에 대항하기 위해 당신을 동의하고 지지할 수 있도록 강력한 주장을 펼친다.그것은 또한 일반적으로 삭제가 나쁘다는 태도를 취하는 데 도움이 되지 않을 것이다.관리자들은 삭제가 (일반적으로) 돌이킬 수 없는 콘텐츠 삭제라는 것을 충분히 알고 있으며, 합의 없이 콘텐츠를 제거하는 조치를 취하는 것에 매우 신중해야 한다.그들은 다소 과장된 방식으로 그것이 악랄한 절차라는 것을 상기할 필요가 없다. --MASEM (t) 14:34, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 여기에 정의가 없기 때문에 계속되고 있다.삭제에 찬성하는 역사적인 추세를 보이는 편집자들이 어떤 경멸적인 설명을 받아들일 수 있는지 묻는 DF는 완전히 요점을 놓치고 있다; 다른 편집자들을 묘사하거나 분류하는데 있어서 긍정적인 목적은 없다.다른 편집자를 논하거나, 그들의 선의에 대해 전혀 의문을 제기하지 않는 것에 동의해야 하며, 삭제 대상으로 검토되고 있는 특정 기사의 신뢰성에 대해 토론하는 것으로 엄격히 제한해야 한다.2012년 1월 24일(UTC) 12시 47분 아무도 참여하지 않는다[하라
- 나는 AfD에서 발견되는 좌절의 예로서 학교에 대해 이야기하고 있었다.˜단젤 [토크 기여 ] 11:30, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
- 아무것도 아닌 것 - 그들이 실제로 그들의 차단 뒤에 숨겨진 이유를 이해하고, 다시는 그러한 일이 일어나지 않을 것이라는 것을 지역사회에 증명할 수 있을 때까지, 아니. 내가 정신적으로 차단되지 않은 조건들을 작성해왔다고 말할 수 있지만, 차단 뒤에 있는 이유를 이해하고 받아들일 때까지 그러한 조건들은 제시될 수 없다.k→ BWilkins ←track) 12:47, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[하라
- [32]에 따라, 변명을 한다.2012년 1월 24일(UTC) 13시 20분 아무도 참여하지 않는다[하라
- 영리하고 심지어 웅변적인 많은 입장과 함께, 2만 단어에 가까운 단어들이 여기 있지만, 이 블록을 지지하는 어느 누구도 그가 변화해야 할 것을 드림에게 전달하기 위해 지속적인 노력을 기울이지 않았다는 것은 실망스러운 일이다.그는 이해심 있는 사람이 자기와 솔직한 대화를 나눌 것을 간청하고 있다.FeydHuxtable (talk) 14:11, 2012년 1월 24일 (UTC)[
←트랙) 2012년 1월 24일 14시 56분 (UTC)[하라
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WP당 접힘:스틱. 원래 논의에서 보면 블록이 뒤집힐 것 같지 않은 게 분명하다.변명을 위해 움직이고 싶다면, 만료될 때까지 기다리거나 또는 해당 사용자가 뭔가 더 조치를 취할 것을 권하고 싶다. --NYKevin @222, 즉, 2012년 1월 26일 ()[응답
존크리소스톰
이 사용자의 사용자 페이지는 극단적인 반 이슬람 정서를 포함하고 있다("각주" 섹션 참조).이 책은 예언자 모하마드를 가장 부도덕한 사람으로 묘사하고 있으며 일반적으로 이슬람을 폄하한다.이것은 사용자 페이지의 정책에 반한다.행정관은 이 불쾌한 내용을 삭제하고 존크리스톰에게 이런 종류의 담즙은 위키백과에서 용납될 수 없다고 경고해 주시겠습니까?감사합니다, --206.217.205.96 (대화) 17:27, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 위와 같은 문제를 WP별 사용자 페이지에서 삭제하였다.UP#POLEMIC 그리고 경고를 발했다.Toddst1 (토크) 17:38, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 기록상 그것이 정말로 극악무도한 것이기는 하지만 혐오표현(혐오표현은 특정 집단에 대한 폭력을 부추기는 것이다)은 아니었고, 관련 정책에 따라 그것을 제거했지만, 무함마드의 비이슬람적 특성화나 그의 종교에 대한 부정적인 묘사(사실상)에 대해 불쾌감을 느끼고 있는 이슬람교도라는 것을 말하고 싶다., UN-UDHR 표준에 의한 특정인의 부도덕성/무법성은 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 사용하여 인용될 수 있다) 그 자체로, Jyllands-Posten Muhammad 만화 논란, "블래쉬 법"의 통과 등과 같은 주제들에 대한 표현의 자유를 억압하는 근거가 될 수 없으며, 종교적인 범죄나 폭력이 무위로 간주될 수 있으며, 이를 명령할 수 없다.어떤 것이든(또는 우리는 창조/이벤션, 토라/NT/코란, 신/알라, 트리니티/Not 등) 간에 끊임없는 편집 작업을 할 것이다.기독교인이 개인적으로 동의하지 않기 때문에 위키피디아에 대한 '크리스마스' 기사를 억압할 수도 없고, 무슬림도 성경을 '부패한' 것으로 그릴 수도 있다.그렇기는 하지만, 인터넷이 민주주의가 아니라 (희망적으로 자비로운) 독재라는 사실을 알고 있으며, 공동체의 합의의 지혜에 경의를 표한다, 동지 ;-) 성 존 크리소스톰view/my bias18:07, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이슬람교도도 아니고, 토드스트1이라고 의심하지만, 나는 그것이 WP를 명백히 위반한 것이라는 그의 의견에 동의한다.업#폴러믹.몬트리올의 숀 (대화) 2012년 1월 25일 ( 18:11, 응답
- 정책을 읽고 나서도 역시 위반했다는 데 동의한다(그래서 제거에 동의한 것이다).그러나 이 문제를 제기한 IP는 분명히 이슬람교도로서 위키백과를 6번이나 편집했으며 (무하마드나 C에 관한 위키백과 기사에서 찾을 수 있을 것 같으므로) 장황한 미사여구로 무함마드를 비도덕적인/법도 없는 사람으로 (정확히) 묘사한 나의 (정확한) 모습에 종교적 분노로 인해 이슈화되었다.무함마드에 대한 이성주의").나는 단지 종교적 분노만이 어떤 종교의 관점을 나타내거나 보호하기 시작할 때(유대주의든 기독교든 이슬람교도든)를 "부적절하다"는 것으로 간주하는 것이 결코 될 수 없다는 것을 경고하는 것이다. 따라서 무슬림들은 다른 종교의 구성원들보다 그들의 종교에 대해 훨씬 더 민감한 경향이 있다.유럽에서 통과되었거나 논의되고 있는 일부 "깜빡이 법률"에서 입증된 바와 같이, 비판 이상의 사람이나 신념이 없는 표현의 자유에 대한 종말.나는 종교적인 무릎 떨림 반응이 결과를 얻을 수 있을 때 위험과 두려움을 본다.St John Chrysostom my bias/ 18:24, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이슬람교도도 아니고, 토드스트1이라고 의심하지만, 나는 그것이 WP를 명백히 위반한 것이라는 그의 의견에 동의한다.업#폴러믹.몬트리올의 숀 (대화) 2012년 1월 25일 ( 18:11, 응답
- 요청:나는 100개 이상의 강등된 것과 에세이를 포함한 위키백과와 위키미디어 커먼스에 대한 모든 지침과 정책을 읽었다고 생각했다.그러나, 지난 주에 나는 두 가지, 즉 날짜 형식에 대한 스타일 매뉴얼과 내가 존재하는지 몰랐던 사용자 공간 정책들을 우연히 알게 되었다. (내가 말했듯이, 나는 그것이 "어떤 것이든, 저작권이 없는 한" 것이라고 생각했다) - 사용자 공간과 내가 하지 않는 다른 모든 위키백과의 모든 부분에 대한 결정적인 목록이 있는가?oh of?St John Chrysostom my bias/ 18:29, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 기록상 그것이 정말로 극악무도한 것이기는 하지만 혐오표현(혐오표현은 특정 집단에 대한 폭력을 부추기는 것이다)은 아니었고, 관련 정책에 따라 그것을 제거했지만, 무함마드의 비이슬람적 특성화나 그의 종교에 대한 부정적인 묘사(사실상)에 대해 불쾌감을 느끼고 있는 이슬람교도라는 것을 말하고 싶다., UN-UDHR 표준에 의한 특정인의 부도덕성/무법성은 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 사용하여 인용될 수 있다) 그 자체로, Jyllands-Posten Muhammad 만화 논란, "블래쉬 법"의 통과 등과 같은 주제들에 대한 표현의 자유를 억압하는 근거가 될 수 없으며, 종교적인 범죄나 폭력이 무위로 간주될 수 있으며, 이를 명령할 수 없다.어떤 것이든(또는 우리는 창조/이벤션, 토라/NT/코란, 신/알라, 트리니티/Not 등) 간에 끊임없는 편집 작업을 할 것이다.기독교인이 개인적으로 동의하지 않기 때문에 위키피디아에 대한 '크리스마스' 기사를 억압할 수도 없고, 무슬림도 성경을 '부패한' 것으로 그릴 수도 있다.그렇기는 하지만, 인터넷이 민주주의가 아니라 (희망적으로 자비로운) 독재라는 사실을 알고 있으며, 공동체의 합의의 지혜에 경의를 표한다, 동지 ;-) 성 존 크리소스톰view/my bias18:07, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이슬람에 대한 당신의 "정확한" 공격을 반복하기 위해 위의 ANI를 사용하는 것은 당신이 실제로 그것을 얻지 못하며, 이 문제가 희망처럼 해결되지 않을 수도 있다는 것을 암시한다.몬트리올의 숀 (대화) 18:33, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 티레이드 전체가 정확하다고 말한 것이 아니라, 무함마드 자신에 대한 한 가지 진술(사건의 발생자가 올린 글이며, 그 주장은 내가 글쓰기나 편집에 손도 대지 못한 비평_of_muhammad#Points_of_contention의 형태로 위키백과 네임스페이스에 있다).가이드라인과 정책에 따라(알고 있는 한) 반복하지 않겠다고 말해 왔다.만약 이것이 내 답변에 부적절한 토론이라면 나에게 알려줘.세인트존 크리소스톰 my bias/ 18:47, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 이슬람교에 대한 당신의 의견을 자유롭게 가지고 그 의견을 표현한다.그러나 그 자유는 정부의 억압으로부터 나온다.위키피디아는 그 누구에게도 그들의 사용자 페이지에 있는 어떤 것에 대한 "비즈니스"를 표현할 권리를 주지 않는다.WP 참조:SOAP. 공공재산에 대해서는 얼마든지 할 수 있지만, 위키백과(Wikimedia)는 민간단체로서 여기서는 그러한 권리를 얻지 못한다.--v/r - TP 18:57, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 나의 요청을 반복한다: 그래서 그런 사건이 다시 일어나지 않게 하기 위해, 사용자 공간을 포함한 위키피디아의 모든 부분에 대한 모든 정책의 결정적인 목록이 있는가? 그리고 내가 모르는 다른 영역도 있는가?그것이 존재한다면 나를 그것과 연결시켜줘.St John Chrysostom my bias/ 19:02, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과:List_of_policies_and_guideline.너의 요청은 매우 광범위하다.정책은 서로 밀접하게 연결되어 있어 어디에서나 비트와 조각을 찾을 수 있다.--v/r - TP 19:05, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 이슬람교에 대한 당신의 의견을 자유롭게 가지고 그 의견을 표현한다.그러나 그 자유는 정부의 억압으로부터 나온다.위키피디아는 그 누구에게도 그들의 사용자 페이지에 있는 어떤 것에 대한 "비즈니스"를 표현할 권리를 주지 않는다.WP 참조:SOAP. 공공재산에 대해서는 얼마든지 할 수 있지만, 위키백과(Wikimedia)는 민간단체로서 여기서는 그러한 권리를 얻지 못한다.--v/r - TP 18:57, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
확실히 하자면 - 나는 아무도 당신이 당신의 사용자 페이지에 악의적으로 글을 올렸다고 생각하지 않았다고 생각한다.당신이 동의했고, 정책에 대해 무지했으며, 그것을 복구하지 않았다는 사실이 그것을 확인시켜준다.마찬가지로, 당신은 그 내용을 삭제해 달라는 요청도 선의로 한 것이고 우리가 (적어도 유사한 사건이 발생했을 것이라는 집행 범위를 넘어서) 무릎을 홱 돌리지 않았다는 것을 고려할 필요가 있다.안녕, 시리스 (대화) 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC) 19:26 [
- 위에서 종교집단에 대한 다소 불안한 공격을 차단하고 싶었지만이런 젠장, 배트맨개인적인 의견이 있으시군요 - 개인적인 의견으로 유지 (토크→ BWilkins ←track) 00:21, 2012년 1월 26일 (UTC)[
사용자:Soapfan2013
나는 Soapfan2013을 보고한다. 왜냐하면 그들은 Van Hughes가 Cole Thornhart를 General Hospital에 데려간 것에 대한 정보를 계속 추가하고 있기 때문이다. 그리고 그것은 그의 크로스오버를 확인하는 공식적인 제3자 정보원이 없음에도 불구하고 Cole Thornhart의 출연자 명단이다.그것은 단지 "보고"로 나열되어 있을 뿐이다.그리고 이 사용자와의 전쟁을 편집하는 대신에, 나는 그들을 보고한다.이 사용자는 내 말을 무시하고 있으며, 과거에 그렇게 한 적이 있으며, 그들이 다른 모든 사람들보다 옳다고 주장한다.그리고 그들은 내가 편집한 내용을 계속 되돌리고 있는데, 나는 그들이 주장하는 출처(SoapCentral, Twitter)가 WP:V에 속하지 않고 Soap Project Talk 페이지에 대한 합의를 통해 그들 모두에게 말했다.그들은 또한 이렇게 말했다: "SoapCentral과 트위터는 내가 그렇게 말했기 때문에 허용된다. 질긴 콩이 싫으면" 그런 태도를 가진 사용자가 우리 페이지를 편집해서는 안 된다고 생각한다.MusicFreak7676 TALK! 01:37, 2012년 1월 26일 (UTC)[하라
- 가장 좋은 방법은 위키피디아:3rr#Handing_of_edit_warring_behaviors를 따르는 것이다.사용자 토크 페이지에 uw-3r 경고를 남겼다.Nobody Ent 02:40, 2012년 1월 26일 (UTC)[
- 고마워하지만, 나는 그것이 그들을 막을 수 있을지 매우 의심스럽다.그들은 전에 이런 일을 해 본 적이 있고 집요하고 그것에 대한 그들의 태도는 매우 고약하다.이 경고에 따라 이 구성원을 계속 주시하십시오.고마워. 2012년 1월 26일 02:54 (UTC)[
사용자:피터 카이퍼
만약 사용자 Fae가 Kuiper의 토크 페이지에 올린 주장이 사실이라면(여기 블록에 대한 복수 차원에서 오프위키 외출) 여기서부터 접근하지 못하더라도 Kuiper에 대한 영구적인 금지가 고려되어야 한다는 생각이 든다.base야구 벅스 당근→ 16:59, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 초과된 사용자에게 통지를 받았는가(아마 이메일로 보내는 것이 가장 좋을 것임)?--RA (대화) 17:01, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그가 누구를 죽이려 했는지 모른다.나는 이 토론에 대한 언급을 페이가 어디서 꺼냈는지 바로 그 직후 쿠이퍼의 토크 페이지에 올렸다.내 생각에 페이는 여기에 코멘트를 해야 할 것 같아.나는 또한 지금 이 문제를 하원의원에 제기했다.← 베이스볼 버그스카르티크What's up, Doc?→ 17:05, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이것이 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive736#Attempted_outing과 관련이 있을까?와일드싱61476 (토크) 17:22, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그가 누구를 죽이려 했는지 모른다.나는 이 토론에 대한 언급을 페이가 어디서 꺼냈는지 바로 그 직후 쿠이퍼의 토크 페이지에 올렸다.내 생각에 페이는 여기에 코멘트를 해야 할 것 같아.나는 또한 지금 이 문제를 하원의원에 제기했다.← 베이스볼 버그스카르티크What's up, Doc?→ 17:05, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
Fæ이 밀접하게 따르는 것으로 알려진 위키백과 리뷰에 쿠이퍼의 이런 언급이 있었다고 봐도 무방하다.나는 Kuiper의 코멘트에 대해 그들이 차단 이유를 진술하는 코멘트를 발견했다. (그것은 위와 연결된 동일한 물질이다.)두 명의 기고자에 대한 언급은 어리둥절하지만, "그런데, 당신의 두 명의 기고자를 악의적으로 퇴장시키는 당신의 복수는 당신의 막힘 없는 리뷰로 거절을 받은 지 몇 분 안에, 두 명의 기고자를 악의적으로 이곳에 보내는 것으로 받아들여지기 어려울 것"이라는 Kuiper의 페이지에 있는 F statement의 진술에 해당하는 다른 언급은 없다고 본다.Fæ이 언급했듯이, 그들은 업로드의 정확성에 관한 하원의 논쟁에 관여하고 있다(이것은 선택 사례다). 따라서 그들은 이 문제에 있어서 전혀 중립적이라고 가정해서는 안 된다.카이퍼는 이미 온위키 코멘트로 차단된 상태여서 같은 코멘트를 오프위키에서 반복하는 것을 금지하는 것은 불합리하다.맛있는 카르분클 (토크) 17:42, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그는 1주일 동안 차단을 당했다.나는 그가 정말로 악의적인 외출의 죄를 지었는지 아닌지 모르겠다.그냥 물어보는 거야, 만약 사용자가 악의적인 오프위키 외출에 대해 유죄라면, 그렇다면 여기서 금지할 근거인가?← 베이스볼 버그스카르티크What's up, Doc?→ 17:44, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 당신은 외출에 대해 전혀 알지 못하지만, 당신은 현재 커먼즈에서 다소 격렬한 논쟁을 벌이고 있는 편집자의 논평에 근거하여 사용자를 금지할 것을 제안하고 있는가?그것은 그다지 책임감이 없어 보이고, 동료 편집자들을 대하는 적절한 방법처럼 보이지도 않는다.맛있는 카르분클 (토크) 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC 17:51,
- 어떤 사용자도 이름을 짓지 않고 가상적인 것을 물어볼게.사용자 A가 오프위키 사이트에 접속하여 사용자 B를 아웃 아웃아웃한 경우, 사용자 B가 ON-WIKI에서 부정적인 방식으로 다시 영향을 미치는 경우, 어떤 조치가 취해진다면?내 생각엔 그게 문제인 것 같아, 이 유저에 대한 것이 아니라 전반적인 상황.Wilding61476 (대화) 17:56, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 또한 가상적인 것을 묻고 싶다.만약 누군가가 위키피디아에 "그건 그렇고, 당신의 두 명의 기고자를 악의적으로 이곳에 보낸 당신의 복수는 당신의 차단되지 않은 리뷰로 거절을 받은 지 몇 분 안에 올바른 방향으로 나아가는 것으로 받아들여지지 않을 것"이라고 쓴다면, 그들이 고발한 사람이 실제로 그런 행동을 하지 않았다는 것이 밝혀졌을 때, 어떻게 해야 할 것인가?잘 짜여진 연습에 얼음찜질을 하는 것(공통위에서 분쟁을 벌이고 있기 때문에 부당하게 금지시키는 전술을 쓰려는 것 같다).발리 최종 (토크) 18:03, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 어떤 사용자도 이름을 짓지 않고 가상적인 것을 물어볼게.사용자 A가 오프위키 사이트에 접속하여 사용자 B를 아웃 아웃아웃한 경우, 사용자 B가 ON-WIKI에서 부정적인 방식으로 다시 영향을 미치는 경우, 어떤 조치가 취해진다면?내 생각엔 그게 문제인 것 같아, 이 유저에 대한 것이 아니라 전반적인 상황.Wilding61476 (대화) 17:56, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 당신은 외출에 대해 전혀 알지 못하지만, 당신은 현재 커먼즈에서 다소 격렬한 논쟁을 벌이고 있는 편집자의 논평에 근거하여 사용자를 금지할 것을 제안하고 있는가?그것은 그다지 책임감이 없어 보이고, 동료 편집자들을 대하는 적절한 방법처럼 보이지도 않는다.맛있는 카르분클 (토크) 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC 17:51,
- How strange to see Delicious carbuncle and Bali ultimate turn up so promptly here and turning this thread to be all about me and about Commons; particularly considering both these accounts have a history of blocks on Commons for harassing me there. --Fæ (talk) 18:21, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- 위키미디어 uk의 fae.여기서 만나서 반가워.우물을 좀 더 독살하려 하기보다는 (나를 괴롭힌 것에 대해 공유지 블록의 역사를 가지고 있다) 아마도 당신은 왜 카이퍼가 두 명의 편집자를 악의적으로 "발언"했다고 비난했는지 설명할 수 있을 것이다.이 다소 이상하고 진지한 주장에 대한 증거가 제시되지 않았다(특히 당신이 "말리스"를 구분하는 것). 이것은 합리적인 질문이다.답은 깨우침이 될 것이다.발리 최종 (토크) 2012년 1월 25일 18:24 ()[응답
- 잠깐, 증거를 위키에 게시하는 것은 애초에 오프위키에 게시하는 것만큼 아웃팅이 되지 않을까?UltraExactZZ Said ~ 2012년 1월 25일 19:00 (UTC) 했나[
- 나는 문제의 WR 코멘트를 살펴본 적이 있다.내 주장은 두 사람은 말할 것도 없고 그곳에서는 어떤 외출도 일어나지 않았다는 것이고, 실제 악의를 다룬 사람으로서 나는 거기서 아무런 기미도 발견하지 못했다.그렇다고 뒷받침을 하지 않아도 다른 사람의 나쁜 행동을 고발하는 데 쓰는 것은 깔끔한 허점이지 않은가?발리 최종 (토크) 2012년 1월 25일 19:21 ()[응답
- 주어진 외출 불만 사항의 세부 사항은 뒤에서 논의해야 한다.분명히, 그 세부사항들을 여기에 공개적으로 게시하는 것은 그러한 외출을 지금보다 더 나쁘게 하거나 더 나쁘게 만들 뿐이다.【베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→ 19:40, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그런 조치는 필요 없다.불만 사항은 여기 ANI 스레드에서 읽을 수 있다(이미 위에서 링크된 바와 같이).여러분은 그것을 읽고, 누군가 완전히 거짓된 비난으로 판명된 것을 반복하는 것에 대한 반향이 있어야 한다고 제안하기 전에 금지 제안을 철회하고 싶을지도 모른다.맛있는 카르분클 (토크) 19:54, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 주어진 외출 불만 사항의 세부 사항은 뒤에서 논의해야 한다.분명히, 그 세부사항들을 여기에 공개적으로 게시하는 것은 그러한 외출을 지금보다 더 나쁘게 하거나 더 나쁘게 만들 뿐이다.【베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→ 19:40, 2012년 1월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 문제의 WR 코멘트를 살펴본 적이 있다.내 주장은 두 사람은 말할 것도 없고 그곳에서는 어떤 외출도 일어나지 않았다는 것이고, 실제 악의를 다룬 사람으로서 나는 거기서 아무런 기미도 발견하지 못했다.그렇다고 뒷받침을 하지 않아도 다른 사람의 나쁜 행동을 고발하는 데 쓰는 것은 깔끔한 허점이지 않은가?발리 최종 (토크) 2012년 1월 25일 19:21 ()[응답
- 잠깐, 증거를 위키에 게시하는 것은 애초에 오프위키에 게시하는 것만큼 아웃팅이 되지 않을까?UltraExactZZ Said ~ 2012년 1월 25일 19:00 (UTC) 했나[
- 위키미디어 uk의 fae.여기서 만나서 반가워.우물을 좀 더 독살하려 하기보다는 (나를 괴롭힌 것에 대해 공유지 블록의 역사를 가지고 있다) 아마도 당신은 왜 카이퍼가 두 명의 편집자를 악의적으로 "발언"했다고 비난했는지 설명할 수 있을 것이다.이 다소 이상하고 진지한 주장에 대한 증거가 제시되지 않았다(특히 당신이 "말리스"를 구분하는 것). 이것은 합리적인 질문이다.답은 깨우침이 될 것이다.발리 최종 (토크) 2012년 1월 25일 18:24 ()[응답
- How strange to see Delicious carbuncle and Bali ultimate turn up so promptly here and turning this thread to be all about me and about Commons; particularly considering both these accounts have a history of blocks on Commons for harassing me there. --Fæ (talk) 18:21, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Fæ, Basball Bugs started this thread because of your remarks about an editor who is curently blocked and unable to defend themselves here. I'm sorry if you think that I have "made it about you". Delicious carbuncle (talk) 19:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- If the purported outing is of the user in the archived discussion and Kuipers comment there counts as an outing, the user have been outed several times on sv-wiki. For example: here, here and here. The additional damage from further outings is therefor somewhat limited. Personally I think Kuiper are somewhat to sarcastic in his comments - especially in this case as he knows how personal this users takes all content-criticisms - and thus needs to shape up. However, blocking on the grounds of outing is undue in my view. Steinberger (talk) 18:10, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unblock Pieter Kuiper. This is ridiculous; there is a long history of controversy on Swedish Wikipedia about Serge's apparent CoI edits about Jacob Truedson Demitz, and his book Throne of a Thousand Years, and his contributions here follow exactly the same pattern. See earlier ANI threads – [34], Pmanderson's comment here: " Serge Woodzing is objecting to edits of Throne of a Thousand Years - the article he wrote, and which used to read like a publisher's blurb (the talk page suggests that this is because he represents the publisher)." If someone comes here and writes puff pieces about a borderline-notable author and his borderline-notable self-published book, and then tries to cite said self-published book in Wikipedia for historical fact (I wonder whether the book has any citations here in Wikipedia that were not inserted by Serge himself), they should not be surprised if COI questions are raised. --JN466 19:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm inclined to agree with JN466 here. Having no prior knowledge of this kerfuffle, the edits that were presented here as outing appeared to me simply as rather acerbic comments on a source that is probably failing WP:RS standards. I doubt that a random editor reading that summary and talk page comment would have been able to make any connection to some (unnamed) Wikipedia editor, especially one as complicated as JN466 says it is. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 21:01, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unblock Pieter Kuiper. This is ridiculous; there is a long history of controversy on Swedish Wikipedia about Serge's apparent CoI edits about Jacob Truedson Demitz, and his book Throne of a Thousand Years, and his contributions here follow exactly the same pattern. See earlier ANI threads – [34], Pmanderson's comment here: " Serge Woodzing is objecting to edits of Throne of a Thousand Years - the article he wrote, and which used to read like a publisher's blurb (the talk page suggests that this is because he represents the publisher)." If someone comes here and writes puff pieces about a borderline-notable author and his borderline-notable self-published book, and then tries to cite said self-published book in Wikipedia for historical fact (I wonder whether the book has any citations here in Wikipedia that were not inserted by Serge himself), they should not be surprised if COI questions are raised. --JN466 19:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
(edit conflict)This seems to be an unwarrented block. Certainly no grounds for a ban unless these so-called off-wiki posts are proven. The dealings after the first ban do appear to be regarding strickly sourcing, hardy harrasment. Outback the koala (talk) 18:11, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- The sekrit evidence should be sent to ArbCom, if it exists. There's no point in the back and forth IF-THEN above. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 21:20, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- That should be spelled "sekrit eveedenz". Yes, if Fae has evidence of malicious outing, he needs to get with someone offline and find a resolution to this matter. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:05, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't believe any "sekrit" evidence was taken into account for the current block, which means Kuiper was blocked for calling Jacob Truedson Demitz a retired hotel manager. Granted, an unnecessary remark, but how does it warrant a week long block? I wasn't aware being a hotel manager was a position of such low esteem, that to consider a person one would be likened to a personal attack. And who is personally attacked anyway? Per WP:OUTING, I'm not to assume any link between Demitz and a Wikipedia editor, yet the blocking administrator seems to do so, in violation of WP:OUTING. Just trying to wrap my mind around the reasoning behind this block here. --Atlan (talk) 22:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- For avoidance of doubt the block today was for harassment, not outing. I blocked Pieter Kuiper for 48hrs on the 20 January for attempting to out SergeWoodzing as the author of a certain book they are in dispute over. This comes on the back of a long history of accusation of harassment by Pieter Kuiper from SergeWoodzing. In the same incident, SergeWoodzing agreed to a six-month interaction ban with Pieter Kuiper. Pieter Kuiper declined a similar offer on his talk page (as is his prerogative) but I warned him to desist in making comments or taking actions that may be seen as harassment of SergeWoodzing on his return. I told him that by SergeWoodzing agreeing to an interaction ban, his approach to interacting with SergeWoodzing would become more visible.
- Anyway, no sooner was Pieter Kuiper's block for attempting to out SergeWoodzing as the author of this book over than he leaves needless acerbic comments about the author (who he believes to be SergeWoodzing) in an edit summary and on a talk page. Clearly these were meant to as a dig at SergeWoodzing (regardless of SergeWoodzing real-world identity) so I blocked him for a week for harassment. I've made it clear to him that if he recognises his fault that I will substantially reduce his block.
- Incidentally, I've seen the off-wiki comments that Fæ refers to. They are not much more than what has appeared here already. Since Pieter Kuiper is already blocked for a week (and these comments were in reaction to that), I don't see any benefit in pursuing it further. Let him chill out and when he returns I hope he will have a better attitude towards his colleagues here. --RA (talk) 22:56, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for the explanation. It still seems like a heavy-handed block to me, considering I find nothing remotely offensive about hotel work. I read it as an unnecessary attempt at marginalizing Demitz' supposed importance, rather than a dig at another editor.--Atlan (talk) 23:15, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Just one question about all this: wouldn't it be a good thing to know if an editor is the author of a book that is being discussed/referenced by said editor, per WP:COI? - The BushrangerOne ping only 04:29, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- There's a fundamental conflict between the COI policy and the outing policy, a good balance for which has not, in my opinion, yet been found. In many instances, it is difficult, if not impossible, to discuss an editor's conflict of interest without running afoul of the rules against outing.
Personally, I would like to see things change somewhat, as I believe it's much more important to the project that the encyclopedia be as neutral as possible and free of outside influence than it is to preserve editors' anonymity once they have attempted to bias articles in their favor. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:32, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- There's a fundamental conflict between the COI policy and the outing policy, a good balance for which has not, in my opinion, yet been found. In many instances, it is difficult, if not impossible, to discuss an editor's conflict of interest without running afoul of the rules against outing.
It appears that users make claims of COI or self-promotion all the time, not least in AFDs and PRODs. There are even tags for article pages, such as {{autobiography}} and {{COI}} that imply that the creator or main author of a page is a certain person or someone closely connected. I very much doubt that every page in Category:Autobiographical articles or Category:Wikipedia articles with possible conflicts of interest (and their numerous subcategories) has an author whose identity is explicitly self-declared on their user page. Nor that this is the case for every article brought to AFD as "autobiography" or "self-promotion". And these tags are used in article space, which is available to search engines and call attention to the issue to a broader public to a far greater extent than edit comments or comments on discussion pages.
So is the use of these tags, or casual claims of "autobiography" or "self-promotion" in AFD discussions supposed to be a offense carrying the risk of blocking or banning? If it is, there are obviously many users out there who ought to know. --Hegvald (talk) 05:43, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Comments 1) I don't have much problem with the 1 week block even if the most recent incident isn't sufficient justification all by itself, given PK's long-term battleground conduct contributing to these many ANI reports concerning himself and SergeWoodzing. I do think PK is usually more correct than SW in most (not necessarily all) of the underlying content disputes. 2) On principle, it certainly is obvious to me that off-wiki outing should be sanctionable on-wiki, by the same logic as WP:NLT. The main threat of outing is off-wiki consequences for the person, not just on-wiki, and editors must not be allowed to chill other editors' participation through outing or outing threats, whether on-wiki or off. But, I don't know if a real outing attempt happened in this particular incident. 3) In an earlier ANI thread, SW expressed willingness to work with a mentor,[35] which still seems like a reasonable idea to me. It didn't go anywhere because the first two people I thought of asking are no longer active. I've just asked for advice from User:SilkTork who mentored Mattisse a while back (her issues had some resemblance to those of SergeWoodzing). Maybe s/he'll have some useful suggestions. 67.122.210.96 (talk) 07:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
86.24.143.245 persistent personal link spam
The Giffgaff article regularly suffers from users who post their own giffgaff links onto the wikipedia page in the hope of getting a £5 referral fee if users sign up through their link. There is a section on the Talk page which describes the problem. The user 86.24.143.245 has been persistently posting his own links over the last couple of days. Can this IP be temporarily blocked for a while?
This has been reported before here and the same user was temporarily blocked for 48 hours. A semi protection was also added to the giffgaff page but that seems to have been removed since anonymous addresses can now post to the page.
Can I suggest also that the semi protection be restored again since this page suffers persisently from the same problem whether this user or others due to the nature of the giffgaff product.
Note: giffgaff is a UK phone operator which allows existing members to earn money by recruiting new ones. This is why the wikipedia article suffers from this as users think it's a good way to advertise their own links. ChrisUK (talk) 20:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- They are now blocked again. Note their ridiculous edit summaries. A longer block is more than warranted. Drmies (talk) 20:34, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Maybe you should consider referring it to the blacklist. Shadowjams (talk) 21:54, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- url was added to XLinkBot yesterday, as documented on article talk page. Nobody Ent 02:46, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- That's different than the blacklist, but probably sufficient. Shadowjams (talk) 07:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- url was added to XLinkBot yesterday, as documented on article talk page. Nobody Ent 02:46, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Maybe you should consider referring it to the blacklist. Shadowjams (talk) 21:54, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Competence
TheEunuch (talk · contribs) has made several nanostubs on various albums, putting no text at all, just track listings. Most have been deleted via A1 already. He has also been removing peak positions from Conway Twitty discography. It's clear that we have a WP:COMPETENCE issue here, but I'd like to know how it should be handled. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 22:32, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Given that ArbCom is now handing out bans for unprofessional behavior, I think a (topic) ban would be appropriate in this case. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 22:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- (Non-admin opinion.) All the creations seem to be in a short space of time. Despite the large red notices, I get the sense sometimes time is necessary. Perhaps a short block - time to reflect? Might make the user pay more attention to the advice and warnings. ("Non-admin" with fair reason.) Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 23:03, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- We don't do cooldown blocks. They appear to have stopped as of 21:15, January 25, 2012 (UTC), about an hour before this ANI was filed. I don't think admin action is needed here just yet, though I'm not an admin so maybe you want to wait for a second opinion. Furthermore, the user has not been notified of this discussion; I've done so now. --NYKevin @147, i.e. 02:31, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- NYKevin - thanks for taking care of that. Manning (talk) 03:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say that would be a "cooldown" block, as I don't think it's aimed at an angry (i.e. abusive, that sort of thing) user. Have we really avoided blocks on this basis before? I think it's more the disruptive type mentioned. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 09:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- We don't do cooldown blocks. They appear to have stopped as of 21:15, January 25, 2012 (UTC), about an hour before this ANI was filed. I don't think admin action is needed here just yet, though I'm not an admin so maybe you want to wait for a second opinion. Furthermore, the user has not been notified of this discussion; I've done so now. --NYKevin @147, i.e. 02:31, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Disruptive edits by unresponsive anon editor
118.136.202.207 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been engaged in a long-term pattern of editing that ignores Wikipedia guidelines and makes unnecessary work for other editors, but has been completely unresponsive to attempts to deal with this situation. This user is a fairly frequent editor (and a decent proportion of their edits appear to be constructive ones), but has a troubling pattern of failing to respond in any way to messages and warnings on their User talk: page. In fact, this editor has never edited any page in any of the "talk" namespaces. The editor also has a consistent pattern of never using edit summaries. In short, the editor apparently is either determined to avoid interaction with the rest of the Wikipedia community, or unaware of how to conduct such interaction.
Unfortunately, this editor has a particular bee in their bonnet when it comes to hatnotes and "see also" links to disambiguation pages. We have an editing guideline at WP:INTDABLINK that very specifically says that when a hatnote (or any other link) intentionally directs readers to a disambiguation page, it should "link to the title that includes the text "(disambiguation)", even if that is a redirect" (emphasis in original). Many of the hatnote templates contain code to do this automatically. This IP editor, however, has repeatedly edited hatnotes to change the links so that they do not contain the word "(disambiguation)", even replacing hatnote templates with manually-written hatnotes in order to achieve this. All this is pointless and disruptive, since it just makes work for other editors who have to undo these edits when they come upon them. The IP editor has also added comments to many of these links with (erroneous) exhortations to other editors demanding that they not insert correct links containing the text "(disambiguation)".
The IP editor has been asked several times on their talk page to stop doing this; but, in keeping with the pattern described above, has never responded to these messages. I frankly do not know whether the user is unaware of the messages or is deliberately ignoring them. However, the behavior described above has continued after each message.
Some example diffs:
- [36]
- [37]
- [38]
- [39]
- [40]
- [41]
- [42]
- [43]
- [44]
- [45] - just this morning, after the latest warning
- [46] - ditto
I am frustrated with having to undo repeated disruption by this editor, and by their refusal or inability to discuss their behavior. Although I am an admin, I am not going to block or take any other action against this person because I am too involved in the dispute. I think the intervention of a neutral party is essential at this point. Thank you. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 16:16, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Reviewing their edits now. I didn't see that you left a message for them about this thread,
so I left one. Calabe1992 16:20, 25 January 2012 (UTC) - The same conduct has occurred again today:
User:Asiaworldcity continuing disruptive actions of banned IP 70.42.29.3
Earlier today I reported anonymous IP 70.42.29.3 for making disruptive edits. An administrator quickly acted implementing an anonymous ban on the IP, so only registered users could edit.(Previous solved incident)
Later in the day User:Asiaworldcity registered and is making the exact same disruptive edits that IP 70.42.29.3 did.iCloud history Most probably it is the same person that decided to make an account to bypass the anonymous ban, since the edits are identical.
Charles Dayton (Talk) 01:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Added a note to user's talk page explaining reliable sources. Note the edit should not be called vandalism, as the user is attempting to add information to Wikipedia. Nobody Ent 02:35, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. Note that I used the words vandalism because the user continued to repost the information multiple times even after he/she was warned. Also there was a section in the talk page discussing the unreliable source. Charles Dayton(Talk) 14:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- We use vandalism for the malicious, not the misguided. Nobody Ent 16:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. Note that I used the words vandalism because the user continued to repost the information multiple times even after he/she was warned. Also there was a section in the talk page discussing the unreliable source. Charles Dayton(Talk) 14:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Persistent sneaky long-term vandalism/promotion on FL Studio
Anon-IPs continually add artists to the "Notable users" section of FL Studio (edit talk history links watch logs), including false citations in order to make the added information look credible. I took the issue to VPP and asked what the policy was for dealing with sneaky insertion of false citations. It was suggested that I take the issue here, however the page was then protected (log), so the issue was (temporarily) resolved.
This is not simple vandalism (and I took the issue here instead of AIV) because:
- There is an edit notioce stating that addition of artists to the notable users section must be "verifiable via a reliable source".
- There are large comments in the source of the page specifically saying that artists added to the notable users section must have "a reference to an independent source mentioning the artist's use of FL Studio" and directing editors to the talk page.
- An editor who knows how to use a
<ref>tag is experienced enough to know that this type of edit results in unsourced information appearing on the surface like sourced information.
Initially, Anon-IPs would simply add artists to the notable users section and to the lead of the article—this is pretty common on articles with sections for "notable people". After consensus on the talk page was reached that each mention of a notable artist must be independently sourced, IP editors then began adding false citations to their edits. Most of these edits come from different IPs, so user warnings are not effective in stopping them. Recently I have started leaving "final warning" templates on the talk pages of Anon-IPs who have continued these vandalous edits, however the same IP is rarely used again.
It seems as though one or more people are watching the article and editing from different IPs (not realizing that it is terribly obvious what they are doing). Here are some relevant diffs (there are many more; I've included only ones with false citations): [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59]
Also, these edits are give a large red error in the references section (example here).
The IP addresses from the above diffs are:
- 66.57.168.254 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 71.102.83.161 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 178.90.111.63 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 99.242.228.53 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 74.68.143.50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 99.192.19.65 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 92.28.238.157 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 86.29.130.174 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
—danhash (talk) 15:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- While annoying, the vandalism is really low-volume. The IPs you listed geolocate all over the globe, and are likely mostly unrelated. A vandal who wants to add a fake entry and hits "edit" sees all these <ref>s in the wiki source and will naturally emulate that in their addition; I don't agree this indicates a level of sophistication.
- Another question is if we really need a section listing notable users; such sections are known vandal magnets. Most widely-used tools will have several users that happen to be notable, but it is unclear what the encyclopedic value is of listing some. It is a virtual certainty that, for example, Avid's Pro Tools has several notable users, such as Mike Oldfield, but the article does not attempt to list them, nor should it IMO. --Lambiam 00:39, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree. Douglas Adams was a notable user of Apples, because he wrote extensively about it. Someone who is merely notable and happensto use something is not significant to the article. Obviously there are possible exceptions, people who are notable in relation to that field, but basically the sources will speak. Rich Farmbrough, 20:06, 26 January 2012 (UTC).
- I agree. Douglas Adams was a notable user of Apples, because he wrote extensively about it. Someone who is merely notable and happensto use something is not significant to the article. Obviously there are possible exceptions, people who are notable in relation to that field, but basically the sources will speak. Rich Farmbrough, 20:06, 26 January 2012 (UTC).
Getting a little out of control
Removing other editors user pages and entirely rude and insulting edit summaries. A non-involved admin should post appropriate warnings. Huayu-Huayu (talk · contribs) SchmuckyTheCat (talk) 04:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Where did I remove other editor user pages?????? What is going on here???? Cite sources if you claim such things!Huayu-Huayu (talk) 04:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I concur with User:Huayu-Huayu, after briefly reviewing their contributions. They have not made any nondeleted userspace edits, and their usertalkspace edits don't appear absurd (note that it is perfectly acceptable for a user to remove comments from their own user talk page; although archival is preferred, it is not required). There do appear to be some civility issues, but that's best handled at WP:WQA or through dispute resolution, not here. Am I missing something? --NYKevin @234, i.e. 04:37, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Accusing other editors of editing drunk and the repeated attitude is beyond what I would send to WQA. My mistake on the user page issue, I was following Anna's page but he removed her notice from his own. This is strictly based on being insulting. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)
So, SchmuckyTheCat, after you stroke one of your claims, now you made the next. Where did I accuse anyone of editing drunk? Huayu-Huayu (talk) 05:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Here. If you're going to deny something, it would do you well to be certain there wasn't evidence of it lying in plain sight. --Jayron32 06:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Mildly uncivil, but ANI material? He might even have meant "drinking the Kool-Aid", "hemlock", or anything (although I doubt it). Seriously Schmucky ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:34, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree the edit summary wasn’t the best, but it doesn’t rise to the level of requiring admin action.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 13:17, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I concur with Sphilbrick. S.G.(GH)ping! 13:58, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree entirely that the edit summary isn't worth bringing someone to ANI for. This is completely and totally a waste of this boards time to be discussing this here, if that edit summary is the worst thing that has been done today. However, if User:Huayu-Huayu is going to deny doing something, they should at least choose to deny doing the things they have actually not done. Denying something which one has done is generally a bad idea, especially when the evidence of one having done it is in plain sight. That was the point I was aiming for, which is why I stated "If you're going to deny something, it would do you well to be certain there wasn't evidence of it lying in plain sight." What I meant by that was that if he was going to deny saying something, it does not good to deny something anyone could check on. The fact that the thing he was denying having done isn't something we should be bothered with at this juncture was entirely irrelevent to my point. Yes, I don't really care what he said, or how unoffensive it may have been. He still said it. --Jayron32 14:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I concur with Sphilbrick. S.G.(GH)ping! 13:58, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree the edit summary wasn’t the best, but it doesn’t rise to the level of requiring admin action.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 13:17, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Mildly uncivil, but ANI material? He might even have meant "drinking the Kool-Aid", "hemlock", or anything (although I doubt it). Seriously Schmucky ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:34, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, there are several more in his contribs, but, yes, agreed, this is premature. He is obviously getting 'hot' as an editor. Closing this is not a problem, but a few eyes and advice to the editor would be useful. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)
@SchmuckyTheCat - What do you mean I did deny? Please show a diff, otherwise I regard your story as a fake story. Also you still didn't show evidence that I accused someone of editing drunk. Huayu-Huayu (talk) 18:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not Schmucky, and was not when I made the above comments. But Here is the diff. Again, please stop denying that you said this. --Jayron32 18:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Could someone please kindly ask him to stop making Hainan Province vs. Island edits, until he gets consensus first? I've asked him at his talk many times and is just ignoring me now. Many thanks if you can help. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 18:58, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- HH blocked as sock [60]. Nobody Ent 23:34, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Threat of bodily harm
An ip address posted a lengthy message to me explaining why their edits ,that I on the spot considered vandalism and gave a {{uw-vandalism1}} warning, were justified. The user said that they were one of the members of the brotherhood to which the article that was edited and said a former member was posting inaccurate details on their page, The Brotherhood of Eternal Love, and gave me his email if I want to contact him further and said not to give the email or initials to Robert (the other guy) because Robert has threatened to bodily harm anyone revising the article. I haven't heard back about where the threat took place. The ip also said that is why he is contributing anonymously. I don't really know what to at this point because I don't have the diffs to email emergency@wikimedia.org and I'm stumped. P.S. I have reverted the message on my talk page due to the nature of this, however it can be found in the page history. Ramaksoud2000 (talk to me) 22:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Here's the diff in question. Posted without judgement, I've yet to work through it all. Manning (talk) 23:10, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- P.S. I'd like to request a full protection of the page to prevent anything else. Ramaksoud2000(talk to me) 23:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- From the looks of the message left to you, the IP said there were only two editors going back and forth on the content "himself and Robert", and the only one that would appear to be is User:Brotherhoodofeternallove, and based on the information given by the IP about the 'Aquarian Temple BEL", that matches the edit made by this particular editor [61]. Having said that, there was no threat made on-wiki from this user, so I don't think we can do much on here. — Moe ε 23:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- P.S. I'd like to request a full protection of the page to prevent anything else. Ramaksoud2000(talk to me) 23:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Well I've read through the comment left on your talk page, and looked over the article. As far as the 'threat of bodily harm', there is not much we can do there as there is no direct evidence of a threat being made (on or off-wiki) and we can't accept a claim by a 3rd party without some form of supporting evidence. (Post ec, agree with Moe).
- As far as the article, it's a mess anyway. Here's a diff showing the two conflicting viewpoints. The best approach to managing it is to delete anything without supporting evidence. The article is now so bloated with unreferenced claims that to clean it would eliminate 80% of the article - which would not necessarily be a bad thing. I don't think protection is the answer just yet, just start enforcing WP:RS. If you get any heat from either party, drop me a line and I'll provide backup. Thanks for your efforts so far. Manning (talk) 23:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Unless the threats were made on Wikipedia, there's not much to be done by anyone regarding the editors themselves. However, the article is another matter ... and appears to be loaded with unsourced first-hand accounts and original research. A side effect of this ANI thread may be more eyes reviewing the content over there; and from what I can see, the article needs it. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 23:32, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- User:Brotherhoodofeternallove is blocked by Toddst1 per username violation [62] — Moe ε 23:35, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I've semi-protected the page and removed some massive WP:BLP and WP:OR issues from the article. There is still much cleanup needed on that article. I suspect it's being written by someone connected with what appears to be an upcoming movie about the group in an attempt to promote the movie. Toddst1 (talk) 23:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Toddst1 - nice work. Manning (talk) 23:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
User:Violet Fae
Violet Fae (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
I'm not sure where to report this editor. If it was just a WP:3RR issue, then I'd report it at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. If it was just a civility issue, then I'd report it at Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance...but that has already been discussed at Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks. It's a combination of both. The editor reported me and others at WP:No personal attacks (which is more about an IP's comments/actions and Violet Fae feeling outnumbered), but has made personal attacks herself. She has continued to make them.[63] She also continues to edit war and violate WP:TALK,[64] even after declaring that she is leaving Wikipedia for good. Like I stated at WP:No personal attacks, I don't consider these to be personal attacks any more than what Violet Fae [also] stated in [the Asexuality] discussion. Saying that someone is throwing a temper tantrum is commonplace on Wikipedia (so is calling an editor ignorant), without any consideration that it should be reported as a personal attack. Just about any comment about an editor that the editor doesn't like can be considered a personal attack. The main example of that is how WP:No personal attacks has a tiny problem defining it. Basically, Violet Fae makes it out as though she was confronted by a gang of "e-thugs," simply because editors advised her to follow reliable sources and that doing so is how Wikipedia functions, as well as because she was reverted several times for removing other people's comments (in part or in whole). I'm just not sure how to handle this user anymore. Like I stated, she says she is leaving, but she keeps violating WP:TALK. Flyer22 (talk) 22:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Here's some supporting material for this what I consider a justified ANI report. On Talk:Sexual orientation, Violet Fae engaged in what gave every appearance of a crusade including persistent vandalism to at least one talk page after final warning. Chronology: Violet Fae takes umbrage at being indirectly called "ignorant" by another editor, persistently deletes talk page content in the apparent belief that s/he is being harassed in violation of Wikipedia policy. Several editors revert Violet Fae's deletions and try to explain that while "ignorant" might not be a very nice thing to say, it doesn't warrant talk page content deletion. Violet Fae carries on deleting, hitting out with accusations of a campaign of abuse and harassment at those who revert the deletions.
- Diffs of various editors reverting Violet Fae's deletions without themselves violating 3RR: [70] [71] [72] [73]
- Violet Fae venting spleen regarding this matter on my talk page: [74]
- Several editors trying (again) to educate Violet Fae on his/her own talk page: [75].
- —ScheinwerfermannT·C02:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Mentoring recommended. Violet Fae may be learning. A few comments about her/him were excessively personal as attacks, but s/he seemed to be conflating those with critiques of her editorial view and s/he repeatedly deleted wholesale from Talk (reverted by others). However, s/he has since narrowed her/his objection to be closer to Wikipedia's standards. If that's a predictor of her editing, that's good. I recommend that s/he work with a mentor who doesn't care about sexuality articles or edit them, so s/he'll have confidence in the mentor's neutrality toward her/him. The mentor should discuss Wikipedia's standards while Violet Fae researches sources for editing s/he might want to do in the future. Nick Levinson (talk) 17:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Eyes on Eggner Ferry Bridge
Eyes may be needed on the Eggner Ferry Bridge page in case things start getting out of hand. Apparently, the bridge just collapsed. :( - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- The WAVE-TV source cited says 'partially collapsed' - I've revised the article to follow this. No doubt there will be clearer reports of what has happened later. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Offensive language
- Discussion thread: WP:WQA#Incivil edit comment at Austrian School
- User: Darkstar1st (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- User warned: [76]
- User reply: [77]
- User notified: [78]
- User edits:
The language used in these edits is extremely offensive and unacceptable. I would ask that they be struck out and that the editor be asked to avoid this type of writing in future. This editor has a history of offensive language on talk pages, which he uses in order to illustrate what should not appear on article pages (example[83] or in the remarks of other editors.[84] TFD (talk) 16:43, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes it is, and no nothing can be done about it. General consensus is that the use of words is never, of itself, sanctionable. Until the user directly attacks another editor, it is unlikely to generate any result. For the record, it would be better if he toned it down a bit, but other than saying "It would be better if he toned it down a bit", theres nothing that is likely to be done to force him to do so. --Jayron32 16:50, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- My hyperbole was a response to tfd using the edit summery, "jesus fucking christ". i am not for censorship either and was appealing to tdf to voluntarily clean it up a tad. Darkstar1st (talk) 16:56, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Wait--"maybe you are fucking right, may the blood of 1000 vagina's fill your cup" is OK? It's stupid and insensitive, and it was directed at a specific editor. Only in a death metal song could this be considered appropriate. Darkstar, if you are going to say eminently stupid shit like that, can you at least check for spelling first? Drmies (talk) 16:59, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)For me, the issue isn't the language; it was the language was used not to communicate or meaningfully participate in the discussion., but rather consisted of pointedly flaunting the lack of language restrictions in Wikipedia. Sanctions could be applied not for "bad language" but rather disruptive editing. I had decided for me the best response was ignoring childish behavior per WP:DFTT; additionally, I'm fence sitting on issues like this until ArbCom tells us how heinous (or not) "dishonest cunt" Nobody Ent 17:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- if you read closely, you will see the to examples provided previous, were also attempts to REMOVE offensive language from articles in wp, not add. Darkstar1st (talk) 17:02, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Either I can't parse your sentence, or I don't see where the blood of a thousand vaginas actually washed clean earlier offensive language. Drmies (talk) 18:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- When I see posts with excessive profanity I just skim or skip them altogether. Hyperbole and humor require knowledge of the audience to be successful; they generally don't work well in dispute resolution areas. Nobody Ent 17:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- @Darkstar1st - so you mean "But he started it first!"? Not the most convincing excuse. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:34, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- if you read closely, you will see the to examples provided previous, were also attempts to REMOVE offensive language from articles in wp, not add. Darkstar1st (talk) 17:02, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, so I use "jesus fucking christ" in an edit summary, Jehochman has a tantrum and RevDeletes it, but this one goes by without comment? That's the great thing about standards; there's so many of them to choose from. Tarc (talk) 17:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I've just revdeleted two of edit summaries; Darkstar1st, this is the very epitome of WP:POINT. I must say I'm tempted to block you... Salvio Let's talk about it! 17:09, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Give into temptation. You have my blessing. I don't think I'm a prude, but "the blood of" and all those other comments made to make a point, that's too much. Drmies (talk) 17:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, right now, the disruption has stopped, so I don't think a block would be much preventative... Salvio Let's talk about it! 17:53, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Darkstar1st, could you please refactor your edit, I did not use the edit summary you mentioned. Also, please see WP:VANDAL: "Intentionally making abusive edits to Wikipedia will result in a block". TFD (talk) 18:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- tdf, let's both strike the offensive language and agree not to use it in the future. Darkstar1st (talk) 18:26, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- What are you referring to? I'm not aware TFD has used inappropriate language. Nobody Ent 18:31, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- scroll up, my original comment was a protest to tfd using "jesus fucking christ" as an edit sum Darkstar1st (talk) 18:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Can you provide a diff of the edit? Nobody Ent 18:53, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WQA#Incivil_edit_comment_at_Austrian_School you can also find the same info at the top of this thread. Darkstar1st (talk) 18:59, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- He means can you link to where I used that edit summary which you cannot because your claim is false and I am asking you again to strike it out. TFD (talk) 19:10, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- fine i give up, continue to litter wp with this kind of filth, and i will continue to try to convince entire school districts to not ban the site, cheers! Darkstar1st (talk) 19:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- He means can you link to where I used that edit summary which you cannot because your claim is false and I am asking you again to strike it out. TFD (talk) 19:10, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WQA#Incivil_edit_comment_at_Austrian_School you can also find the same info at the top of this thread. Darkstar1st (talk) 18:59, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Can you provide a diff of the edit? Nobody Ent 18:53, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- scroll up, my original comment was a protest to tfd using "jesus fucking christ" as an edit sum Darkstar1st (talk) 18:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- What are you referring to? I'm not aware TFD has used inappropriate language. Nobody Ent 18:31, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- tdf, let's both strike the offensive language and agree not to use it in the future. Darkstar1st (talk) 18:26, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Darkstar1st, I just looked back through TFD's last 500 edits (which go back to December 2011). I can find no evidence that he ever used "jesus fucking christ" as an edit summary, nor any evidence of a deleted edit summary that would indicate such had been revdeleted. Digging deeper into the various places you linked, I did find this edit by a different user, Byelf2007 (talk · contribs). Are you sure you haven't gotten the two users confused? If so, I would suggest striking through your comments about TFD having acted inappropriately.
No matter who said the word "fucking", however, that is not a justification for spouting whatever offensive nonsense you can come up with in a tit-for-tat response. Please don't do that again - disrupting Wikipedia to make a point is not acceptable. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 19:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Darkstar1st was in conversation with me when he engaged in some low (but improving) quality swearing. I was arguing, as I have continuously done, that language gags have been thoroughly rejected by the community; and further, that you can't "backdoor" in a language gag by claiming that the language is "disruptive." Darkstar1st's language wasn't obvious vandalism (even the non-grammatical sentence). Nor was it a personal attack. I'm not sure what I'd do with a large amount of menses, but he seemed to mean it as a compliment while trying to make an argument about language. There's no personal attack, there's no vandalism. Moreover, Darkstar1st wasn't engaging in tit-for-tat; they appeared to be attempting to argue a point, and made use of swearing to argue a point about—swearing. There was a tendentiousness to their arguments, and I tried to point them to the forum that considers sitewide language gags; but, small amounts of related off-topic discussion seems to be a habit in consensus formation, and not disruptive. Fifelfoo (talk) 22:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- So, a variety of "may the hair on your toes never fall out"? I read/read it very differently. I couldn't tell whether they were trying to insult you or not, but I am having a hard time reading their comments anyway, apostrophes aside. See above: they claim TFD said x in an edit summary, but cannot produce a diff; no one else can; they say "bwuah what's this filth." So, a false accusation is made but it's not their fault. Or something. BTW, Fifelfoo, I'm glad you came by and cleared up that point: not a personal attack. Drmies (talk) 22:45, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- In the old days, it was "Jesus H. Christ". Where are people's sense of propriety? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:26, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- It was kind of a "May the hair on your toes." And the stuff in discussion with me wasn't a personal attack, nor a characterisation of me. I think Darkstar1st could be reminded to more clearly remember which editor they wish to talk about, particularly when making claims about other editors. In immediate reply to Baseball Bugs, there are some beautiful colourful working class idioms relating to Christ. But I quite like the archaic 'swounds. Fifelfoo (talk) 23:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- indeed i am sorry for disrupting wp. perhaps my plea for a more child friendly wp is misplaced, apologies and fluffy bunnies all around. Darkstar1st (talk) 06:27, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- So your idea of a more child friendly Wikipedia is making up stuff about other editors and engaging in pointy behaviour? I think you have mistaken "child friendly" for "childish". --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Good point, consider that matter closed, forgive me for my abstract ideas about wp, peace! Darkstar1st (talk) 00:41, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- So your idea of a more child friendly Wikipedia is making up stuff about other editors and engaging in pointy behaviour? I think you have mistaken "child friendly" for "childish". --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- indeed i am sorry for disrupting wp. perhaps my plea for a more child friendly wp is misplaced, apologies and fluffy bunnies all around. Darkstar1st (talk) 06:27, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Request review of NLT block
I've blocked Studentat40 (talk · contribs) for making this post. Specifically the statement "I am confident there are many other individuals such as myself, if merely a single other reader who would join with me in a 'class-action lawsuit' against 'Wikipedia' and the 'authors' of 'Santorum' as depicted and published here on Wikipedia." - as well as the following sentence which then solicits for time or resources to enact the threat.
Their post was to the talk page of a user who had previously warned them against an earlier disruptive edit - and appeared to be an attempt to intimidate the user who gave the earlier warning.
The only reason I bring it here is that they never actually stated that they were going to proceed with legal action. However, given the solicitation as well as the perception that it was meant to intimidate the user who had warned them - I believe that it is a violation that NLT is meant to try to prevent. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:04, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Good block. He's trying to intimidate, and that's why we have the NLT rule. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree. Good block. S.G.(GH)ping! 22:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I should point out that I agree philosophically that the "Santorum" bodily fluid thing made up by some media character has way-undue weight here and runs the risk of being a serious BLP violation. Legal threats ain't the way to fix it, though. And my guess is that Santorum himself wouldn't dignify that garbage by even commenting on it, never mind filing suit. He's running for President, and if he gets the nomination, he'll get a lot more heat than just this silly bodily fluid joke. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:20, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I like how the web address for their mailing list is NIMBY. You can't make this stuff up. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 16:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- I should point out that I agree philosophically that the "Santorum" bodily fluid thing made up by some media character has way-undue weight here and runs the risk of being a serious BLP violation. Legal threats ain't the way to fix it, though. And my guess is that Santorum himself wouldn't dignify that garbage by even commenting on it, never mind filing suit. He's running for President, and if he gets the nomination, he'll get a lot more heat than just this silly bodily fluid joke. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:20, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree. Good block. S.G.(GH)ping! 22:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Should the legal threat be removed? VanIsaacWScontribs 22:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Why? The threat was never retracted in any way. --Orange Mike Talk 22:33, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Personal attacks and socking
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Ip 94.2.8.11 posted the following comment at WP:Footy Some of these adolescents have clearly struggled to get out of their bedrooms, let alone their backward wee country! [85]. I strongly suspect this to be a sock of User:PorridgeGobbler who waged a war previously against myself and various other users regarding a content dispute over the Scottish First Division. He previously used ip User:94.14.78.108 to post messages to me [86] [87] which ultimately led to it being blocked at ANI by User:Black Kite on 9 August. He then used PorridgeGobbler and was blocked warned about socking and is now clear he hasn't listened to it and is continuing personal attacks again.Edinburgh Wanderer 23:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ive had a look for the ANI in archive 9 but can't find it. There seems to be a lot missing from that archive.Edinburgh Wanderer 23:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Contributing from IP is not socking, please AGF. I am entitled to state the fact that the Scottish First Division is NOT professional. "Waging a war" is embarrassing nonsense. Please comment on the issue not the editor! 94.2.8.11 (talk) 23:34, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- It is socking i also suspect this ip User:94.14.194.24 to be a sock when they posted this comment at WP:Footy back in december.[88]. This is obvious socking previous ANI here [89].EdinburghWanderer 23:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- He also started a Dispute res [90] this along with this discussion show [91] there was no consensus for what he was proposing. This is no longer a content dispute just personal attacks and socking further disscusion is welcome but not when users go to this extent to be disruptive. EdinburghWanderer 23:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Technically, editing from an IP can be considered socking; based on our definition sockpuppetry can occur while "Logging out to make problematic edits as an IP address". So a defense that it's not sockpuppetry if you edit from an IP isn't a strong one. -- Atama頭 00:05, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Looking back, you were pointed to DRN because the ANI was pathetically premature and inappropriate. You then threw an apparent tantrum and threatened to "resign" because no admins would close down the argument in your favour. I'm telling you there are legitimate reasons for me having to contribute by IP - no deception whatsoever is intended. Also I have made no "personal attacks". Stop forum shopping and get back to the discussion. Sooner or later the presence of a part-time, semi-pro league on a "fully professional" list will be found out. 94.2.8.11 (talk) 00:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- You got blocked at that ANI for personal attacks and harassment you now make the following comment Some of these adolescents have clearly struggled to get out of their bedrooms, let alone their backward wee country! One thats a personal attack and two its a nationalist attack how ever minor. You were warned to use one account and engage in discussion instead you decided to ignore everyone else in all previous discussions and used multiple accounts. Im sorry but there is also a clear competence issue here as well. Please detail the legitimate reasons you have for using these ips other than for disruption. You could easily of taken part in every discussion but when other people disagreed you resorted to this sort of antics. I also note you dont appear to be disagreeing that you are PorridgeGobbler. EdinburghWanderer 00:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'd just like to point out that the 3 IP addresses here vary in location. 94.14.78.108 is from Nice, France. 94.14.194.24 is from Stansted, England, while 94.2.8.11 is editing from London. I'm wondering what the connection is supposed to be between these three IPs aside from the fact that they have all conflicted with you.
- You got blocked at that ANI for personal attacks and harassment you now make the following comment Some of these adolescents have clearly struggled to get out of their bedrooms, let alone their backward wee country! One thats a personal attack and two its a nationalist attack how ever minor. You were warned to use one account and engage in discussion instead you decided to ignore everyone else in all previous discussions and used multiple accounts. Im sorry but there is also a clear competence issue here as well. Please detail the legitimate reasons you have for using these ips other than for disruption. You could easily of taken part in every discussion but when other people disagreed you resorted to this sort of antics. I also note you dont appear to be disagreeing that you are PorridgeGobbler. EdinburghWanderer 00:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- He also started a Dispute res [90] this along with this discussion show [91] there was no consensus for what he was proposing. This is no longer a content dispute just personal attacks and socking further disscusion is welcome but not when users go to this extent to be disruptive. EdinburghWanderer 23:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- It is socking i also suspect this ip User:94.14.194.24 to be a sock when they posted this comment at WP:Footy back in december.[88]. This is obvious socking previous ANI here [89].EdinburghWanderer 23:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry what are you reading PorridgeGobbler talk page shows discussion about not socking so does other ip that he was blocked on by Black Kite. This diff shown above is a clear nationalist attack [92]. This is qucking so loud you can hear it in the jungle. look through the contributions on the ips and Porridge and it clearly is the same user. This is a sock as clear as day. It was also noted by black kite that they used a dynamic ip[93]. He is also clearly in replies above not denying he using multiple ips in fact he said i have valid reasons for doing so. If we aren't taking socking seriously which is a founding principal here then we certainly should be taking no personal attack seriously.Edinburgh Wanderer 00:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- (conflict)I think you'll find Porridge Gobbler was blocked (and swiftly unblocked) for some alleged offence which changed as it went along and was never ultimately made clear. It certainly wasn't for "personal attacks and harassment". It appears as though you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation here, in breach of WP:UNCIVIL. 94.2.8.11 (talk) 00:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- It is no wonder people who contribute consistently giving there all to this project feel hard done by. They give everything only to be attacked personally and there country. They also have to face someone who uses multiple accounts was warned for it yet they do it again and all they get is the sockpuppetry claims don't seem to be relevant. Please tell me how his use of any account other than PorridgeGobbler which he was advise to use as part of unblock condition isn't a valid concern.EdinburghWanderer 00:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked for disruption ip[94] Porridge gobbler blocked for socking [95] and then for harassment[96]. Black kite warning that he must use this account and this only as part of unblock[97].EdinburghWanderer 00:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- We can't force someone to edit as an account. One of the founding principles of Wikipedia (and all Wikimedia projects) is that people are allowed to edit without being logged in. I also don't see that Black Kite specifically stated that PorridgeGobbler couldn't edit as an IP, he did say that he could only edit from a single account (which is not an unusual restriction). Again, if you allege harassment from the current IP you should show exactly where the harassment occurred, not link to a page and expect people to find it. The orange box at the top of this page that appears whenever you add a comment reminds you to use diffs. -- Atama頭 00:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- And another personal attack this is exactly what happened the last time.[98].EdinburghWanderer 00:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Please explain clearly how these are not personal attacks and why you think its correct that he is using multiple accounts purely for disruption when clearly warned by an admin not to do so again as part of unblock conditions.EdinburghWanderer 01:02, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Okay, here is a formal warning. 94.2.8.11, cut it out. You can discuss matters with editors without referring to them as bigoted adolescents from a wee backward country. Any further comments like that, and I will block you. -- Atama頭 01:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Im sorry but thats no warning at all. It needs to be clearly warned on talk pages also i think other admin comments are required as I'm not convinced that Nationalist comments with a long term history clearly shown should only be warned Thats two attacks in less than 2 hours. EdinburghWanderer 01:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Editing from a single account clearly means that account. There is a clear history of editing using various ips to disrupt. If you discount socking which is absurd then you need to look at behaviour the comment he left on my talk page was a clear repeat of the behaviour of before when he disagreed such as this [99] and this [100] when other editors got involved similar reaction at least a bt more polite to adam.[101].EdinburghWanderer 01:13, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Warning accepted. Can we get back to the issue now? This transparent attempt to shut down debate is becoming embarrassing. 94.2.8.11 (talk) 01:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- This was much ado about nothing, until 94.* started trolling EW's talk page. That's quite enough of that. Now, you've had your free shot at Scotland and your free troll of another editor. Feel free to discuss the issue using an IP, if you want, but the discussion needs to be on the straight and narrow from here on out. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Honestly as before you were invited to discuss but have no intention of being constructive thats why this happens every time. No apology for your personal attacks and harassment no explanation of why you choose to ignore your unblock conditions. Im sorry but i can take personal attack but not nationalist ones.
- This was much ado about nothing, until 94.* started trolling EW's talk page. That's quite enough of that. Now, you've had your free shot at Scotland and your free troll of another editor. Feel free to discuss the issue using an IP, if you want, but the discussion needs to be on the straight and narrow from here on out. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Warning accepted. Can we get back to the issue now? This transparent attempt to shut down debate is becoming embarrassing. 94.2.8.11 (talk) 01:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Editing from a single account clearly means that account. There is a clear history of editing using various ips to disrupt. If you discount socking which is absurd then you need to look at behaviour the comment he left on my talk page was a clear repeat of the behaviour of before when he disagreed such as this [99] and this [100] when other editors got involved similar reaction at least a bt more polite to adam.[101].EdinburghWanderer 01:13, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Im sorry but thats no warning at all. It needs to be clearly warned on talk pages also i think other admin comments are required as I'm not convinced that Nationalist comments with a long term history clearly shown should only be warned Thats two attacks in less than 2 hours. EdinburghWanderer 01:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Okay, here is a formal warning. 94.2.8.11, cut it out. You can discuss matters with editors without referring to them as bigoted adolescents from a wee backward country. Any further comments like that, and I will block you. -- Atama頭 01:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Please explain clearly how these are not personal attacks and why you think its correct that he is using multiple accounts purely for disruption when clearly warned by an admin not to do so again as part of unblock conditions.EdinburghWanderer 01:02, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- And another personal attack this is exactly what happened the last time.[98].EdinburghWanderer 00:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- We can't force someone to edit as an account. One of the founding principles of Wikipedia (and all Wikimedia projects) is that people are allowed to edit without being logged in. I also don't see that Black Kite specifically stated that PorridgeGobbler couldn't edit as an IP, he did say that he could only edit from a single account (which is not an unusual restriction). Again, if you allege harassment from the current IP you should show exactly where the harassment occurred, not link to a page and expect people to find it. The orange box at the top of this page that appears whenever you add a comment reminds you to use diffs. -- Atama頭 00:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked for disruption ip[94] Porridge gobbler blocked for socking [95] and then for harassment[96]. Black kite warning that he must use this account and this only as part of unblock[97].EdinburghWanderer 00:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Floquenbeam how is breaching unblock conditions not an issue. How is nationalist attacks against scotland and attacks against me nothing. This will end in tears because he will continue to troll and use multiple accounts. If he want to be constructive then he should use Porridge gobbler and that alone and I'm not convinced a block isn't warranted for returning to same behaviour he was blocked for in August 2011.EdinburghWanderer 01:27, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm just not convinced about the socking being an issue; if he's not using more than one account/IP in that particular discussion, I have a hard time getting excited about it. I understand your point of view, but I don't think the use of the IP is a terrible issue. The shot against Scotland and kids in Scotland was not kosher; if it doesn't happen again, I'm not going to block someone for it. The trolling on your talk page is much more serious, and if it happens again he'll be blocked. If he continues to discuss like an adult, then please discuss it with him. If he veers back into childishness, then he'll be blocked. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- (conflict)"Personal attacks" as mild as [102] are an issue for the wikiquette noticeboard. Perhaps a passing Admin here might help to guide EW away from his vexatious and lame attempts to have other editors blocked. Again, I want to discuss the issues. 94.2.8.11 (talk) 01:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I also repeat the above warning isn't a proper warning he hasn't been notified formally on there talk page. Also why shouldn't and SPI be run to see if using other multiple accounts. I just don't see looking at the edit history and edits at all that help the project which shows non willingness to contribute. I really want to be uncivil to you as you have been to me Snowman, DuckisJammy and chris over the last whilst but you don't see me hounding you. If you want to contribute use your username which you know fine well you should be using per your unblock. You clearly don't deny your socking and making personal attacks because the majority are against you is wrong. EdinburghWanderer 01:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Love how you miss out all the other personal attacks. it should be noted i strongly suspect there are more accounts out there given a lot of the terms ip used are something a long term editor would use which none of these accounts show. I think a check user should be asked for to clear this up once and for all.Edinburgh Wanderer 01:43, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I am not using "porridge gobbler" because, to be honest, it was many months ago and I'd forgotten all about the farcical block and signing up for the account. In any event I have only commented, not edited, with this IP so am not in breach of the unblock. There is no grounds for a "check user". You make accusations of multiple accounts and personal attacks, but can't back it up with any credible evidence whatsoever. Also I note you are canvassing your pals from the Scottish football taskforce again. If anything Admins ought to be issuing warnings in your direction for these disruptive behaviours. And also for subjecting them to this storm-in-a-teacup ANI and wasting everybody's time. 94.2.8.11 (talk) 01:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- If an admin wants to block me then fine but all the evidence plus you admitting porridge gobbler is you account clearly proves my point. You know fine well what your unblock conditions were. A personal attack is not a waste of anyones time in fact calling me disruptive is a farce look who's talking the one who's talking you attacked me and my gang as you call it. There not a gang they are group of editors who work bloody hard to improve coverage of scottish football unlike you with no edits that make a damm bit of difference to this encyclopaedia. You are in breach of the unblock it clearly said use this and this only.Edinburgh Wanderer 02:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I also repeat the above warning isn't a proper warning he hasn't been notified formally on there talk page. Also why shouldn't and SPI be run to see if using other multiple accounts. I just don't see looking at the edit history and edits at all that help the project which shows non willingness to contribute. I really want to be uncivil to you as you have been to me Snowman, DuckisJammy and chris over the last whilst but you don't see me hounding you. If you want to contribute use your username which you know fine well you should be using per your unblock. You clearly don't deny your socking and making personal attacks because the majority are against you is wrong. EdinburghWanderer 01:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- (conflict)"Personal attacks" as mild as [102] are an issue for the wikiquette noticeboard. Perhaps a passing Admin here might help to guide EW away from his vexatious and lame attempts to have other editors blocked. Again, I want to discuss the issues. 94.2.8.11 (talk) 01:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Notifying people is a requirement of ANI. I notified the blocking admin from last time. Thumperward who you had an issue with last time who you again posted on his talk page and duck who you also had a run in. Hardly forum shopping. Plus all your accounts.Edinburgh Wanderer 02:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm flattered (if slightly creeped out) that you remember me and the circumstances of our previous discussions so well. Frankly I'd forgotten all about it! Why don't we agree to keep away from one another, as there is obviously a personality clash? I'm happy to delimit my contributions to factual discussion of the topic at hand. Unless you have any actual evidence of "personal attacks" or "multiple accounts" I suggest you do the same. 94.2.8.11 (talk) 02:11, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Other ip addresses he used some blocked others warnings User talk:94.2.38.154User:94.4.165.172, User talk:94.2.51.78 and User:94.14.62.195.EdinburghWanderer 02:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think it is quite obvious the user is sockpuppet, the last time round last time round the user used 3 ip addresses to avoid detection & appear as if he had only been warned once. When in fact he was warned several times by four different users. If he was using a single IP he would having been banned a long time ago. The user tried to appear reasonable by adding his opinions occasionally to discussions & then doing whatever he wanted regardless, adding inappropriate deletion tags to articles, making sarcastic comments, nationalist attacks & personal ones. Initially when user was unblocked he continued to make sarcastic comments for which he was again warned before becoming inactive. The user has now returned with yet again another IP & persisted with both personal & nationalistic attacks. Let me be frank the user is clearly both a sockpuppet & vandal I think it’s about time admins take this issue seriously before WP:FOOTBALL is severely affected once again. What do we have to do warn the user numerous time over his array of IP's while in the meantime he pops up on another IP & continues with his poisonous actions? Don't be fooled the IP can appear both ration & reasonable when he sees fit especially when he's defending himself but in reality he is no more than disruptive nuisance & it’s about time he suffered consequences of his actions. I think this case if pretty clear cut. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 04:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, what would you do with someone who edits under various IPs spanning multiple countries? That's not a rhetorical question. My mop isn't wand-shaped. -- Atama頭 04:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- When its clear they are using a dynamic ip i would block the known accounts. Its clear they are the same and its very clear they are here to attack other users. Im sorry but you don't explain why you think the attacks are ok and why obvious socking is allowed here specifically when the user does not deny it in fact openly admits it above.EdinburghWanderer 12:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- WP:SOCK says Creating new accounts to avoid detection and Logging out to make problematic edits as an IP address and that The misuse of multiple accounts is considered a serious breach of community trust. He clearly is doing that. And Wikipedia:No personal attacks says the following are considered personal attacks: Racial, sexist, homophobic, ageist, religious, political, ethnic, sexual, or other epithets (such as against people with disabilities) directed against another contributor. A pattern of hostility reduces the likelihood of the community assuming good faith, and can be considered disruptive editing. He has displayed ageist and ethnic by having a go at my age and ethnic by having ago at my country. EdinburghWanderer 12:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) What I would do with this someone who edits under various IPs spanning multiple countries is ignore them.
- What we have here is a troll, and a very well fed troll.
- This started off as a discussion about whether past players meet project guidelines here. Just a contribution on how to improve a WikiProject? No.
- Quick Q&A. Q: what is the quickest way to provoke a Scot? A: call them "Scotch".
- Look at the language the IP user uses: This has been pointed out a few times before only for the disproportionate number of Scotch editors...
- And at that point I stopped assuming good faith. Then we come to "Some of these adolescents have clearly struggled to get out of their bedrooms, let alone their backward wee country!"
- What I see here is comments made to provoke a reaction, under the guise of advancing a discussion. The first response to attention-seeking behaviour should be to ignore it. Alas, we have paid attention; even my comment here is troll-food.
- --Shirt58 (talk) 12:48, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- It is clear trolling i agree however he never gets warned properly by admins like what was down above uses multiple accounts attacks other editors he has a clear grudge against scotland. He has started various threads all with the same intention and attacked in all of them when other editors go the other way. If he is being clearly disruptive then admin action is necessary. If we agree its trolling should comments just be reverted.EdinburghWanderer 12:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I would like to point out from the beginning we suspected a pre existing grudge from before at the WP:Footy as none of the edits of Porridge or others have enough history it lead to the belief that there may be other accounts out there. All of the above still make me believe this which is why a said a check user should be carried out to determine this. Its been pointed out to me that it may have been due to the fact that he didn't accept that the league of ireland in which no team is fully pro was not regarded as notable. There is a clear socking on other accounts so an SPI report is appropriate. I can fill an SPI in if deemed necessary would do it now but don't want to be accused of forum shopping although it seems very justified. EdinburghWanderer 13:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- To show why i said he wasn't interested in discussions is that back in august he was constantly told to discuss on talk page but reverted us on the main page constantly when advised to discuss even after he had left comments. one [103] two [104] three [105] 4 [106] 5 [107] 6 [108] 7 [109] and then blocked. Does this look like someone who really wanted to discuss. EdinburghWanderer 13:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- ok my strongly held position that Porridge may have used other accounts has been heightened just now. An editor User:Murry1975 who i have never had any interaction with made the following comment [110] you get all huffy when personal remarks are made towards you. As i have never spoken to him he wouldn't know that. And he won't explain why. Also he went on to talk about irish Leagues something Porridge did with his Ip's. He has never edited the project or edited anything to do with Scottish football so the appearance just now is causing me great concern. Im happy to discuss further with him and other editors if confirmed he isn't related to Porridge. His comments about ANi also reminds me of what the ip stated above. Full discussion found here.[111].Edinburgh Wanderer 14:53, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- To show why i said he wasn't interested in discussions is that back in august he was constantly told to discuss on talk page but reverted us on the main page constantly when advised to discuss even after he had left comments. one [103] two [104] three [105] 4 [106] 5 [107] 6 [108] 7 [109] and then blocked. Does this look like someone who really wanted to discuss. EdinburghWanderer 13:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I would like to point out from the beginning we suspected a pre existing grudge from before at the WP:Footy as none of the edits of Porridge or others have enough history it lead to the belief that there may be other accounts out there. All of the above still make me believe this which is why a said a check user should be carried out to determine this. Its been pointed out to me that it may have been due to the fact that he didn't accept that the league of ireland in which no team is fully pro was not regarded as notable. There is a clear socking on other accounts so an SPI report is appropriate. I can fill an SPI in if deemed necessary would do it now but don't want to be accused of forum shopping although it seems very justified. EdinburghWanderer 13:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- It is clear trolling i agree however he never gets warned properly by admins like what was down above uses multiple accounts attacks other editors he has a clear grudge against scotland. He has started various threads all with the same intention and attacked in all of them when other editors go the other way. If he is being clearly disruptive then admin action is necessary. If we agree its trolling should comments just be reverted.EdinburghWanderer 12:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- WP:SOCK says Creating new accounts to avoid detection and Logging out to make problematic edits as an IP address and that The misuse of multiple accounts is considered a serious breach of community trust. He clearly is doing that. And Wikipedia:No personal attacks says the following are considered personal attacks: Racial, sexist, homophobic, ageist, religious, political, ethnic, sexual, or other epithets (such as against people with disabilities) directed against another contributor. A pattern of hostility reduces the likelihood of the community assuming good faith, and can be considered disruptive editing. He has displayed ageist and ethnic by having a go at my age and ethnic by having ago at my country. EdinburghWanderer 12:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- When its clear they are using a dynamic ip i would block the known accounts. Its clear they are the same and its very clear they are here to attack other users. Im sorry but you don't explain why you think the attacks are ok and why obvious socking is allowed here specifically when the user does not deny it in fact openly admits it above.EdinburghWanderer 12:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, what would you do with someone who edits under various IPs spanning multiple countries? That's not a rhetorical question. My mop isn't wand-shaped. -- Atama頭 04:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think it is quite obvious the user is sockpuppet, the last time round last time round the user used 3 ip addresses to avoid detection & appear as if he had only been warned once. When in fact he was warned several times by four different users. If he was using a single IP he would having been banned a long time ago. The user tried to appear reasonable by adding his opinions occasionally to discussions & then doing whatever he wanted regardless, adding inappropriate deletion tags to articles, making sarcastic comments, nationalist attacks & personal ones. Initially when user was unblocked he continued to make sarcastic comments for which he was again warned before becoming inactive. The user has now returned with yet again another IP & persisted with both personal & nationalistic attacks. Let me be frank the user is clearly both a sockpuppet & vandal I think it’s about time admins take this issue seriously before WP:FOOTBALL is severely affected once again. What do we have to do warn the user numerous time over his array of IP's while in the meantime he pops up on another IP & continues with his poisonous actions? Don't be fooled the IP can appear both ration & reasonable when he sees fit especially when he's defending himself but in reality he is no more than disruptive nuisance & it’s about time he suffered consequences of his actions. I think this case if pretty clear cut. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 04:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Murry1975 has been notified.Edinburgh Wanderer 14:55, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Please use WP:SPI for the sockpuppet accusations. Nobody Ent 15:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Given that we are also talking personal attacks which still haven't been given a official warning for just note above which isn't official this is a valid forum as well. I will open and SPI as well but there are other issues still to be addressed here.EdinburghWanderer 15:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- The IP has been given an official warning. File your SPI. This is becoming disruptive, and quite childish at this point. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 15:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- How is it childish and no he has not been officially warned. I fail to see how a user who openly admits above he has socked is childish.EdinburghWanderer 15:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/User:PorridgeGobblerEdinburgh Wanderer 15:32, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- How is it childish and no he has not been officially warned. I fail to see how a user who openly admits above he has socked is childish.EdinburghWanderer 15:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- The IP has been given an official warning. File your SPI. This is becoming disruptive, and quite childish at this point. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 15:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Given that we are also talking personal attacks which still haven't been given a official warning for just note above which isn't official this is a valid forum as well. I will open and SPI as well but there are other issues still to be addressed here.EdinburghWanderer 15:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
(Non-administrator comment) I've seen this flagging up several times in my watchlist, and have observed the conversation thoroughly. As it has of been no business to me I refrained from saying anything. However from things being said, it is starting to sound like a group of kids in kindergarten fighting over who's turn it is to play in the sandpit. EW you requested that the IP be warned. A warning was given above. Now you're demanding the warning be more official. At the end of the day, a warning is a warning regardless of how and where it is issued. When you stated a warning be issued, then why not be more specific and say "official" and not leave it open to interpretation? We're all human at the end of it all, and not equipped with in-built crystal balls. I have noticed several editors give their input and advice on this topic, and from what I see in response from EW is throwing the rattle out of the cot. Isn't best at this stage to just drop the stick and walk away from it all. If it was me in a situation like this, I'd have took it on the chin and moved on. A lesson learned is a a lesson earned. It isn't the problem along the way that make us or break us. It's how we learn to stand and face them that makes the difference. Wesley Mouse (talk) 15:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ok first of all as far as I'm concerned a warning should be given directly to the user. The reason I'm so moved by this is his previous behaviour towards me was harassment that just about led to me giving up editing which I'm thankfull i never. The behaviour here was similar to what he started before and I'm extremely concerned he will start again. When an unblock says you must use this and this only all i can see is he is in clear breach of this and none of the advice on this page explains why this isn't the case. In all honestly I'm sick of people making nationalist attacks. This has happened repeatedly to me not just in this case but in others. Its just not on and is something thats needs dealt with more strongly across the board and this isn't happening ever. Dropping the stick is very hard when it keeps happening. I will back off but explanation is required about why they feel no action is warranted re socking.EdinburghWanderer 16:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- (EC) Yes I agree that nationalist attacking comments happen everywhere, even in everyday life. But if we were to all start having these rants about it, then we'd be smacking our heads against a brick wall. I hear nasty homophobic comments in my day-to-day life, some of them even aimed at me. But by ignoring them and moving on, I know within myself that I have taken a bigger and bolder step than the person making the attacking comments. To walk away and ignore things like that shows who is the better person in it all. But choosing to stoke the fire instead of dropping the stick is just making the matter worse than it needs to be. Don't take the bait and be the victim. Show your bravery by ignoring the attackers and showing them who is better. Remember the saying EW "what goes around, comes around". Karma is by far the best form of defence. Wesley Mouse (talk) 16:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Brother of article subject - deletion of sourced content.
Jocelyne Couture-Nowak was a professor and one of the tragic victims of the Virginia Tech Massacre. An editor, User:Just, who has identified himself as the brother of Couture-Nowak has begun making edits to both articles. Firstly in the Virginia Tech Massacre article, the editor removed what appears to be straight forward detail of what occurred in Couture-Nowak's classroom. [112] The detail was properly sourced, but the user removed the source also. No comment was made.
Later in the Jocelyne Couture-Nowak article, again the user has removed sourced straight forward detail of events of the tragedy, in this case how it specifically related to Couture-Nowak. [113] The source was The Washington Post and again that source was removed. No comment was made. When the edit was reverted, the user reverted with the comment "Contents of deleted section irrelevant for this page concerning my sister Jocelyne Couture. Other edits will follow shortly."
I left a note on Just's talk page suggesting they read the Close relationships section of Wikipedia:Conflict of interest that explains potential bias issues when editing articles. User Just seemed quite defensive and included the ironic statements, "The question is all about consolidation of pertinent and relevant facts put forth in any Wikipedia page. If one is to write any superfluous detail which may lend to bias, confusion, or promote ambiguity, then such content should never be allowed on Wikipedia."[114]
The user seems to believe there's a "bias" involved with this content existing and promises to make more edits. I don't know what to make of this. The user doesn't seem to have a lot of experience with WP and might be unfamiliar with some of the website's standards. Perhaps administrators who are familiar with WP:COI issues might want to weigh in on this. --Oakshade (talk) 02:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Just has been editing WP on the VTM for a long time. Your diff shows he did not delete sourced material from the VTM article but rather added a sourced line about deaths and injuries in room 211. What is the problem?
- The edit of the Jocelyne Couture-Nowak article does alter the narrative, but the dispute is about the article content and not Just's behavior. Just is at two reverts right now. You've pointed out the COI. You can point out 3RR. But take the content dispute to the article's talk page and get it resolved there.
- Glrx (talk) 03:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Just registered in 2003, but has had only 52 edits since. That's not a lot of experience.
- You are correct about the VTM article. I have struck that paragraph. The the problem of removing sourced content from the Jocelyne Couture-Nowak article stands. Again there could be WP:COI issue here. When the brother of a deceased article topic begins removing sourced content that has been there for years, that's a problem. The issued has been taken to the user's talk page, but the COI issue still exists. --Oakshade (talk) 04:02, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- While a source was given for the deleted phrase, it is not clear that the content as presented was adequately covered by the source. The deleted phrase presented it as a fact that Violand told Couture-Nowak to barricade the door, while all we learn from the source is that he recounted telling her to "put that desk in front of the door" – and while we have no reason to think he made this up, personal memories of such events are notoriously unreliable. --Lambiam 13:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- If contents of Wikipedia is to derive from relevant objective facts which are pertinent to a subject in question, then for the sake of brevity, relevancy, and coherency among other things, content which conflicts with the relevancy of the topic should never be allowed, especially where it provokes a conflicting issue regarding the underlying rationale behind the usage of the deleted contents. Where there is a conflict of relevancy the impugned details should never be published, regardless if those details derive from "reputable" sources. I respectfully submit that the quality of edits of a registered editor should take precedence over the quantity of edits. I dare believe that my future occasional edits - including the rationale supporting them - shall continue to be perceived as "Just" and according to guiding and evolving principals of Wikipedia directives. Thank you all for your assistance in making Wikipedia more notable. just (talk) 16:25, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Please review my closure of an RS/N discussion
RS/N discussions occur under a culture of limited discussions soliciting outside involvement. As a long term RS/N editor, I have taken to closing discussions early that do not fit within the RS/N culture or mission, or where IDHT behaviour is occurring. I recently closed such a discussion. The closure was reverted, and then another editor reverted back to my close. One user is unhappy with this closure. Please review my closure (as stated in the diff) in the context of this evidence for the closure:
Diff notes:
- Movement over previous discussion
- Competence failure to comply with RS/N requirements
- Suggestion that initiator feels free ("If editors here feel this discussion is of no use they don't have to comment.") to ignore RS/N culture 2
- tag teaming; (this) and (this) by an involved editor (this) and (this) by the same editors
- editors fail to restrict general discussion 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
- over contribution by an involved editor 2 3 4 5 6 7
- Core points for the closure 2 3 (regarding the business model of the publisher) 4 (regarding currency of RS/N reliability, future reliability can be determined in the future) 5 (regarding publisher quality) 6 (MEDRS context) 7 (journal indexing)
I have notified WT:RS/N; and the user who expressed concern (and reverted my closure), and the user who reverted back to my closure on their talk pages. Fifelfoo (talk) 05:43, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I can understand why some editors are annoyed if the issue hasn't been resolved, but personally I think it was the correct call in the end. If the editors want impartial assistance then they need to respect the spirit of the board; there is no way I would read through that mountain of crap just to help them out. Betty Logan (talk) 06:08, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Comments per RS Notice Board action
I assume Fifelfoo acted in good faith. However, his action in closing a NB discussion was ill considered and inappropriate:
General:
There is no standard on NB which allows for an editor to randomly close a discussion, warn other editors, to make judgements about sources under discussion, and/or to make comments and judgments about sources not under discussion, for example (Anderson and Taylor-see closing statements). [115]. The NB discussion was closed after less than a day and a half.
Specifically:
- Fifelfoo's close was based on the misassumption that, "I am closing this as the discussion is moving towards the exclusion of RS/N editors..." Granateple is not an involved editor.
- Graneteple and 7 uninvolved editors (LeadSongDog, Granateple, Yobol, RexxS, Andrew Dalby, David Eppstein, Short Brigade Harvester Boris), with occasional comments by 2 involved editors (Fladrif, Littleolive Oil) made pertinent comments per the specific question posed which was based in the reliability of the publisher, whether a vanity press, and open access publication. The discussion was appropriately online with the issues on the source.
- Tag teaming assumption is based I presume on the idea that Graneteple was an involved editor. He's not. And lining up two editor comments and assuming they are tag teaming is highly presumptuous and in this case dead wrong.
- I did not forum shop as Fifelfoo accused me of. LeadSongDog suggested moving a more general discussion here to the RS Notice Board here which I did.
My concern:
It was inappropriate to publicly criticize an uninvolved editor, Granateple, for commenting, and especially to issue reminders in the manner of an arbitration. This:
-discourages good-faith participation at a noticeboard
-discourages use of noticeboards
-discourages participation by an uninvolved editor such as Granateple
That said, I assume Filelfoo acted in good faith with the best interest of Wikipedia at heart. I believe closing of NB postings needs further discussion. I've opened a discussion here (olive (talk) 16:37, 26 January 2012 (UTC))
- I think Filelfoo's problem was mostly the way in which the discussion was conducted. The purpose of the board is to get outside objective opinion, so when the discussion is taken over by the involved editors and made inaccessible to impartial editors it ceases to be productive. If the issue still needs to be resolved, you should restart the discussion but limit yourself to stipulating your opinion on the matter, and the opposing editor can do the same, and then let uninvolved editors judge for themselves. Betty Logan (talk) 20:02, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- I rely on my impression of tag teaming between you and Granateple; Granateple's gross over contribution to discussion; and the "uninvolved" editors wandering straight back to the topic of the general discussion of the reliability of open access journals. (See diffs above). In particular your attempts to control the discussion (again, diffs above) indicated a stewed discussion excluding outside editors. Fifelfoo (talk) 22:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Your comment is absurd. You are accusing all of the uninvolved editors of some sort of conspiracy to skew a discussion. That's ridiculous. Attempt to exclude outside editors? They were all outside editors with two exceptions, Olive an Fladrif, Please feel free to accuse Short Brigade Harvester Boris and others of being part of some "stewed" discussion. And control the discussion? You're grasping at straws. My intent was to prevent an escalation of a few angry posts. I made very few posts. My real concern here is that an editor who will skew events as you have here, is closing NB discussions and has taken an advisory rule in Wikipedia , and in doing so in this case is willing to blacken the reputations of all of the editors who commented on the NB rather than admit to a mistake. This is a serious concern.(olive (talk) 22:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC))
- Please do not misread my comments, in particular, I am not "accusing all of the uninvolved editors of some sort of conspiracy," I have accused your behaviour and the behaviour of another editor as constituting "tag teaming" and supplied diffs. I have suggested that the discussion wandered off into general discussion and supplied diffs. Your ownership and battleground behaviour excludes other editors—RS/N editors do not need to be invited by an involved party into a discussion on the noticeboard they frequent, and supplied diffs. As you may note from the extensive list of diffs, Short Brigade Harvester Boris' contributions were not contributive to the poorly constructed discussion. "that an editor who will skew events as you have here, is closing NB discussions and has taken an advisory rule in Wikipedia , and in doing so in this case is willing to blacken the reputations of all of the editors who commented on the NB rather than admit to a mistake. This is a serious concern." do you have any evidence for this, or would you like to make accusations without demonstration? Fifelfoo (talk) 23:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm not the one who needs to prove something. You have made assumptions and then found diffs to prove your case. I've never met or worked with Granateple. I came to a NB in good faith to deal with a troublesome source, to make sure that whatever was done with the source was compliant. The discussion was civil and helpful with many good comments. I question your closing of that discussion after a day and a half, and I'm telling you your comments about what went on are misguided. I am, as I said concerned because you made some massive misassumptions, closed a case based on those assumptions and warned an editor in the manner of an arb which can only serve to chill the NB environment. I have nothing more to say. (olive (talk) 23:43, 26 January 2012 (UTC))
Awesome!
I think it's awesome that a civil single-purpose POV pusher can try to push a vanity published journal article into a wikipedia article where they have a massive conflict of interest, then, once totally uninvolved editors realize that the journal article is crap argue for pages and pages about how everyone is just behaving oh-so-terribly, and nothing is done to stop them! That's AWESOME! We should DEFINITELY have more of that! Hipocrite (talk) 18:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- While my personal opinion of Hindawi is that it's not in the same rank as the really top-notch journals (and I'm annoyed at getting spam from them), casting Hindawi as a vanity press is going too far. The editorial board for their journal in my field includes a number of highly regarded researchers, some whom I know well personally. (If you want to check for yourself see [116] and do a Google Scholar search for e.g., Guy Brasseur or Klaus Dethloff.) They wouldn't be on the board if there were shenanigans going on; these are people with established reputations to uphold. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 21:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Stating that one journal is a vanity published does not mean the publisher is a vanity publisher. If you have any reason to believe that the "Journal of Nutrition and Metabolism" (ironically named almost identically to Nutrition and Metabolism, wonder why!) is a reliable source, that can be discussed at RSN. It might be - I don't really care or know. What I do know is that anyone who finds an article in "Journal of Nutrition and Metabolism" and thinks it's a good source for Wikipedia was either furtively directed their by someone who is an expert in the field as their meatpuppet, is an expert themselves, has a massive conflict of interest, or is googling for dollars. If olive is an expert, she'd know how to find the OTHER side of the arguemnt (you know, the one that the experts believe in). If she's googling for dollars, then she needs to be topic banned. If she's being directed by someone, perhaps the meatpuppetry needs to end. Of course, we know the answer is that she has a massive conflict of interest, but dare we say what it is? No, we'll be wikilawyered with OUTING OUTING OUTING all day. Hipocrite (talk) 21:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- What is amazing here, is that an editor can attack another editor on an admin Notice Board and no one says anything. That seems a conspicuously strange and ironic event. (olive (talk) 22:50, 26 January 2012 (UTC))
- Hipocrite - tone it down. I also strongly advise you strike some of your more accusatory comments above.
olive - If you've got a problem with how admins are reacting to a situation, there are FAR better ways to bring it to our attention.
Now this case requires a bit of examination before a newcomer can meaningfully weigh in, and I'm sure all parties would prefer a measured response rather than a kneejerk one. In the interim, both sides should focus on presenting the core elements of the dispute without descending into incivility. Manning (talk) 23:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hipocrite - tone it down. I also strongly advise you strike some of your more accusatory comments above.
- What is amazing here, is that an editor can attack another editor on an admin Notice Board and no one says anything. That seems a conspicuously strange and ironic event. (olive (talk) 22:50, 26 January 2012 (UTC))
- I have not been uncivil and I have been treated to Hipocrite's foul comments both here and on the RS NB talk page. My sense was to stay out of this after I did present the core element of my concerns, but this foul comment has been siting here for a good part of the day. Normally I would apologize for any kind of forceful language . Tt's not my style but in this case. No. I'm fed up with being bullied. Hipocrite has not been part of this discussion. His purpose seems to be simply to attack and bully. Thanks for your comment, I will take it to heart.(olive (talk) 23:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC))
Note: Olive has been topic banned by arbcom in the past for WP:TE and POV pushing on Transcendental Meditation and it was pointed out in the AE report that she has a conflict of interest, so there is merit to what Hipocrite is saying. Noformation Talk 00:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- There is no merit to bullying. NoFormation. One of the reasons poisoning the well is frowned on is that first , one has to be very careful to get the facts straight, and second one can be lacking in the understanding and nuances of some environments. Editors who edit in contentious areas can be set upon by all manner of those wishing they would disappear. What counts is that the arbitration committee has never sanctioned me for anything. (olive (talk) 00:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC))
- User:Noformation - I'm not disputing (or endorsing) any of Hipocrite's claims, just asking that they be toned down a bit.
::olive - you WERE put under Arbcom sanctions by an Arbcom clerk, in accordance with the discretionary sanctions ruling handed down by Arbcom. (For the record I note that those sanctions have long since expired). These are considered equivalent to direct action by Arbcom, so you will achieve nothing by disputing that fact. Manning (talk) 00:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- User:Noformation - I'm not disputing (or endorsing) any of Hipocrite's claims, just asking that they be toned down a bit.
- Manning I was referring specifically to the TM arbitration, where I was not sanctioned in any way, nor warned...and NW did not act as a arbitration clerk. Noformation has some of his information wrong and given what has gone on in this thread I'm reaching my limit on false accusations. I would request that you do not accuse me of being untruthful which is not the case.(olive (talk) 01:04, 27 January 2012 (UTC))
- You were topic banned by arbcom, I didn't say that it was during the initial TM case so congrats, strawman successfully torn down. How can you state that NW wasn't acting as an arbclerk? What does this even mean? He's an arbclerk, he banned you, he logged your ban at the TM log of blocks and bans. You cannot separate NW's position as an arbiter from his actions in an administrative role and your attempts to do so come off as wikilawyering.
- Manning I was referring specifically to the TM arbitration, where I was not sanctioned in any way, nor warned...and NW did not act as a arbitration clerk. Noformation has some of his information wrong and given what has gone on in this thread I'm reaching my limit on false accusations. I would request that you do not accuse me of being untruthful which is not the case.(olive (talk) 01:04, 27 January 2012 (UTC))
- What does it matter when it happened anyway? The fact of the matter is that you were topic banned for bad editing practices and pushing your POV. Further, you were also sanctioned with a 1RR restriction as arbcom believed that you, Timidguy and Edith Sirius Lee tag team reverted edits in order to keep your POV in. You then tried to wikilawyer yourself out of the ban by claiming that you weren't properly notified about discretionary sanctions, and your appeal was denied. This was what, a year ago? And it seems as though you're still pushing your POV. The first three results searching for "User:Littleolive_oil prefix:Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" are the three AE incidents with which Olive was involved (though these do not contain the topic ban, which can be found here). Noformation Talk 02:05, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
I am telling you what I said and what I meant. You can make out of that what you want to, but none of that is true to what I said or meant. Wikipedia is one dimensional. There is no way of explaining the multi dimensional environments which accompany what you think you see. I shouldn't have tried to given what has gone on here. Best wishes.(olive (talk) 03:01, 27 January 2012 (UTC))
- I will continue a little bit because of the strange incident with the excommunication. I meditate very seldom.
- I think this journal is tolerably reliable and okay, and that it suits the topic, which is limited and doesn’t belong to larger journals. Preliminary findings suggests that relaxation might cause a drop in blood pressure. Not very remarkable, and why should it not be mentioned on Wikipedia? We are not talking about the “Hypertension” article. On the 17th of February 1600 Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake because he dared to say that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and that the Universe is infinite, with an unlimited number of stars.
- But the sheeps need a shepherd. Every movement, when it becomes messianic, has its purists and priests, more catholic than the Pope. Take a look at the reputation of Hindawi, and the editorial board of the journal in question. What do we tell the researcher and professors on that board, many from reputed universities around the world? What do we tell Cindy Davis, now at the National Cancer Institute? What do we tell assistant professor M. Shauwkat Razzaque at Harvard? What do we tell Professor Dr. med. Hans Konrad Biesalski at Universität Hohenheim in Germany? This editorial board consist of more than 40 respected researchers, and they also have some self-respect. To say that Hindawi or their journals are unreliable, that is not in accordance with a scientific outlook, as I perceive it.
- I hope you admin folks will read through the discussion (rather lengthy) on WP:RS, and judge fairly regarding this unexpected excommunication. Granateple (talk) 02:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- This board is for discussing behavioral issues not content. Further, RS/N has already dealt with the source; it's time to drop this. Noformation Talk 02:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Australasian Journal of Bone & Joint Medicine anyone? 67.119.12.141 (talk) 22:10, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- My thoughts exactly --Guerillero My Talk 21:01, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Block not recorded in the block log
| I saw the totally unacceptable post at the start of this user talk page thread. I checked the block log and was surprised to see it was blank. Knowing that a username that declares an editor "=F4g" cannot be acceptable, I requested a block at WP:UAA. My request was removed by a bot in secoinds on the grounds that the user is already blocked indefinitely, yet looking again at the block log it remains blank. Why would an indefinite block not appear in the block log? I obviously wouldn't have wasted time suggesting a block for an obvious attack account if the log had shown action was already taken. Would someone please explain how and why blocks can be missing from the logs? EdChem (talk) 03:27, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Would someone please explain to me simply why a block log showing that an editor with a grossly unacceptable username has been blocked increases the harm that a block log showing that an editor with a grossly unacceptable username is free to edit does not? Remove the posts from view I understand, hiding the block I don't. EdChem (talk) 04:10, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
|
Requesting block of IP of banned user User:Picker78
The 79.107.38.160 is a sock of banned user User:Picker78 who has a history of attempting to avoid this ban. See User:Foot Hunter, and User:Dionisia Bekri. As evidenced in this comment on my talkpage, [119] (since deleted) he blatantly explains who he is. Please get rid of him. Thank you. Lost on Belmont (talk) 17:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello, this is Picker78. I would like to say that my blocking (as Picker78) was unfair and based on an edit that I never did. I can explain this further. 79.107.38.160 (talk) 17:13, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- IP blocked. As a prolific sockpuppeteer and edit-warrior, nothing "unfair" about their block. Acroterion (talk) 17:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
User:Rubinkumar, rollback, and competence
Rubinkumar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Rubinkumar has requested the rollback tool four times within the past 10 days on-wiki, and at least twice on IRC. He clearly does not have enough experience fighting vandalism, and thus was told to request it at a future date. I notified him that repeated requests could lead to an ANI discussion resulting in a rollback-request ban or a block on his talk page. He asked about the concerns raised by reviewing admins, to which I responded with a list of their concerns. He then proceeded to lie to me about his editing history, claiming that he has "over 100 edits reverting vandalism." He has a history of incorrectly tagging articles, such as a {{lead too long}} tag at stub Ojas a few days ago.
I then went ahead and checked his editing history after my last reply on his talk page. I noticed he replaced an image of an elementary school with a digitally-altered image (which looked awful, IMO) that removed people, a fire hydrant, and a pole in the foreground, but he did not attribute the work as required by the license, and I deleted it as a copyvio. I received this message today in which Rubinkumar threatened to "raise a discussion about" my behavior, "get another administrator to revert it," "REPORT YOU TO AIV," and gave me some "useful links" as if I'm the inexperienced user. I am requesting a review of Rubinkumar's behavior, and maybe a review of my image deletion, as Rubinkumar does not appear competent enough to edit Wikipedia and is being disruptive. This edit, in which he reverts a good-faith edit on his talk page by another user, only to make the same edit immediately after, shows the disruption I am referring to, among other edits. Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Comment. I have checked the edits for this user, and he/she dosen't seem to have done anything wrong. I think that the edit this user made on their own talk-page was fully okay. After all, its their OWN talk page. IAmWarrior (talk) 18:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I've blocked IAmWarrior indefinitely as a DUCK sock of Rubinkumar. Note the first version of IAmWarrior's talk page where he claims to be Bongwarrior, and then the third edit above showing behavioral similarities to Rubin. I haven't blocked Rubinkumar yet, as I'm waiting for their response here or confirmation via the autoblocker, however the standard block for this sort of thing is one week on the master account. Anyone's welcome to apply that if they feel it's appropriate and I'm not around, if not, I'll probably do it later unless this turns out to be a mistake on my part. No comment on the incident this section focuses on though, I haven't looked into it. Hersfold (t/a/c) 19:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Creating a sock to support oneself at ANI, and claiming to be an alt account of an admin? I don't see any reason to wait for a reply, there is no explanation that can excuse such manifest acts of bad faith. I'd personally favor an indef block, this behavior brings to mind several other recent users with competence problems (unhealthy obsession with "leveling up" clueless sock puppetry, trying to take credit for more experienced users' work, general incompetence at actual editing, useless warnings to other users, etc) . Having long dialogues with them just prolongs the inevitable. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:17, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for stepping on your toes, but having dealt with several similar cases recently it has become clear to me that users with these types of issues do not benefit from a "wait and see" approach as it gives them the impression they will be given infinite "second chances" whereas a block makes it clear we are serious. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Good block, in my opinion. Thanks, Beeb. Salvio Let's talk about it! 23:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Personal attack
A vile PA on T.Canens [120].Murry1975 (talk) 00:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Indeffed. Thanks for reporting him. Salvio Let's talk about it! 00:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
ClaudioSantos violates topic ban??
ClaudioSantos has one of the widest topic bans ever issued (see: Wikipedia:Topic bans#Placed by the Wikipedia community. I would like to know if he violated his topic ban by takling part in an AfD (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ian Dowbiggin) about a person involved in the abortion/eugenetics discussion. It is a borderline case, but allowed or not? Night of the Big Wind talk 10:26, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
- A topic ban that wide is contrary to reason. I consider an OTRS ticket to be something far past that sort of "ban" - especially since I could readily see significant problems with the BLP. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC) Note: This would include editing any section of of any biographies that deal with said subjects. does not seem to extend to "opining on noticeboards thereon" as that sentence is clearly the outer limit of the "widening". Collect (talk) 13:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think I am free to ask if it is a violation or not. Night of the Big Windtalk 14:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
- Nobody said you couldn't ... you were just given an opinion. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
- Technically it could be considered a violation, since a topic ban is intended to apply to all areas of Wikipedia; "Unless clearly and unambiguously specified otherwise, a topic ban covers all pages (not only articles) broadly related to the topic, as well as the parts of other pages that are related to the topic." It's not clearly and unambiguously specified otherwise in this ban. And it doesn't seem right to oppose the ban through selective enforcement, if the ban is considered improper then it should be modified or removed after a new community discussion.
- Nobody said you couldn't ... you were just given an opinion. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:07, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think I am free to ask if it is a violation or not. Night of the Big Windtalk 14:21, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
- However, looking into the history of this, and the discussion that led to the expansion of the older ban that only covered euthanasia, I don't see that this ban was enacted due to problems that occurred outside of article space. So in my opinion, the ban shouldn't extend to AfD discussions. -- Atama頭 02:08, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- It is difficult again. The topic ban is so widely set because he kept searching the limits of his prior topic ban. And that is just what happens here again. But if this allowed, so be it. Night of the Big Wind talk 04:15, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Interesting, besides his usual rant against Jabbsworth et al, he now also comments on the content of the article about Ian Dowbiggin. Night of the Big Windtalk 18:17, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- If it was really possible to comment in an AfD without referring to the content of the article, at any rate my comments about its content are not dealing about the banned topics. I did take care of avoid that. But my comments in the AfD, about the article content, exclusively illustrate how the article actually violates the BLP policies and that the controversial edits were made by the expulsed user:Jabbsworth on purpose to discredit this author, in order to remove him as a reliable source in other wikipedia articles (Details and proofs here:). It should be noticed that the AfD was precisely opened because the own subject requested the deletion of the article based on BLP concerns after his entirely unattended (but punished) attempt to correct those controversial edits made by the expulsed user. -- ClaudioSantos¿? 19:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- It does not matter what Jabbsworth et al did. The fact is that mr. Dowbigging never got involved in any discussion but furiously is trying to "tweak the article to his wishes" (polite term for censoring). And what matters at this page, is that you are involved. I get the idea that the admins are allowing your edits, but it is again exploring the fringes of your topic ban. Night of the Big Wind talk 21:08, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- If it was really possible to comment in an AfD without referring to the content of the article, at any rate my comments about its content are not dealing about the banned topics. I did take care of avoid that. But my comments in the AfD, about the article content, exclusively illustrate how the article actually violates the BLP policies and that the controversial edits were made by the expulsed user:Jabbsworth on purpose to discredit this author, in order to remove him as a reliable source in other wikipedia articles (Details and proofs here:). It should be noticed that the AfD was precisely opened because the own subject requested the deletion of the article based on BLP concerns after his entirely unattended (but punished) attempt to correct those controversial edits made by the expulsed user. -- ClaudioSantos¿? 19:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- However, looking into the history of this, and the discussion that led to the expansion of the older ban that only covered euthanasia, I don't see that this ban was enacted due to problems that occurred outside of article space. So in my opinion, the ban shouldn't extend to AfD discussions. -- Atama頭 02:08, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Just because there is an OTRS ticket doesn't mean he needs to comment on that AfD. Lots of other users around to do so. I'd say this does clearly violate his topic ban, he should be blocked and the counter reset.--Crossmr (talk) 23:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Comment - That's a euthanasia-related piece, narrowly defined, and a clear violation of the topic ban. Carrite (talk) 04:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- ClaudioSantos's current ban doesn't actually include euthanasia. His old ban did (which expired the first of November), but the current ban in effect through April of this year is "to include Abortion, Planned Parenthood, Eugenics, and Nazi related topics, broadly construed, including all biographies of notable persons involved in such subjects, broadly construed". Euthanasia is related to eugenics somewhat but they aren't exactly the same, so according to the ban as written he is not specifically excluded from euthanasia topics.
- On the other hand, this particular biography is about a historian involved just as much in eugenics as euthanasia, and is controversial for tying the two closely together, so the topic ban would still apply at this article. Again, though, I'm not completely sure it should apply at the AfD. -- Atama頭 17:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Euthanasia was part of the Nazi eugenics program, so "broadly construed" would bring it into the topic ban as well, in my opinion, not just for one article, but generally speaking. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:16, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't agree. Just because euthanasia was used for that purpose doesn't mean that anything related to euthanasia would fall under the ban. The article euthanasia itself would fall under the ban, of course, because that article includes everything in the ban except Planned Parenthood (check it out, you'll find eugenics, Nazis, and abortion included) but an article like animal euthanasia wouldn't. Many euthanasia-related articles (the Dowbigging article being an example) do intersect with one or more of the topics that ClaudioSantos is banned from, but that would be determined on a case-by-case basis. If the community feels that he is being disruptive on euthanasia-related articles that would fall outside the scope of his current ban, then that ban can be reenacted, or his current ban can be modified to include it. When his current ban was originally set, his older ban on euthanasia (and interaction ban with Jabbsworth) was still in effect, so it's possible that the intention was for him to remain banned on that topic as well, but I'd hesitate to personally make that assumption. By the way, if anyone wants to know my history with this, I was the person who initially instituted the older ban from euthanasia and the interaction ban (just as an admin closing a community discussion, I didn't participate in it myself of course). -- Atama頭 17:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think euthanasia is the issue here. The article under discussion at AfD contains a section entitled Sterilization which specifically mentions eugenics and its use in fascist regimes (including Nazi Germany). It is that aspect which violates the topic ban. Mathsci (talk) 10:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't agree. Just because euthanasia was used for that purpose doesn't mean that anything related to euthanasia would fall under the ban. The article euthanasia itself would fall under the ban, of course, because that article includes everything in the ban except Planned Parenthood (check it out, you'll find eugenics, Nazis, and abortion included) but an article like animal euthanasia wouldn't. Many euthanasia-related articles (the Dowbigging article being an example) do intersect with one or more of the topics that ClaudioSantos is banned from, but that would be determined on a case-by-case basis. If the community feels that he is being disruptive on euthanasia-related articles that would fall outside the scope of his current ban, then that ban can be reenacted, or his current ban can be modified to include it. When his current ban was originally set, his older ban on euthanasia (and interaction ban with Jabbsworth) was still in effect, so it's possible that the intention was for him to remain banned on that topic as well, but I'd hesitate to personally make that assumption. By the way, if anyone wants to know my history with this, I was the person who initially instituted the older ban from euthanasia and the interaction ban (just as an admin closing a community discussion, I didn't participate in it myself of course). -- Atama頭 17:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Euthanasia was part of the Nazi eugenics program, so "broadly construed" would bring it into the topic ban as well, in my opinion, not just for one article, but generally speaking. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:16, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- On the other hand, this particular biography is about a historian involved just as much in eugenics as euthanasia, and is controversial for tying the two closely together, so the topic ban would still apply at this article. Again, though, I'm not completely sure it should apply at the AfD. -- Atama頭 17:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
If I am counting correctly, ClaudioSantos did not just chime in just once at an AfD debate about the biography of an academic/author who has written about eugenics, but the editor has commented nine times at length in that debate, engaging in extensive discussion of the matter. It is difficult for me to accept an argument that ClaudioSantos has not violated the topic ban. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I refrained to refer about the banned topics but solely and strictly about BLP concerns. I also did not accept your invitation, Cullen, to suggest in your talk page additions to the article. And I continued to comment in the AfD as here the admin Atama has expressed that for him the AfDs were not included in the topic ban. At any rate, I think I have said everything I had to said and also I have said everything without engaging in any sort of personal discussions which in the past was the reason claimed to topic banned me. -- ClaudioSantos¿? 13:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Legal threat
I am involved and cannot block the user myself. I would like an uninvolved sysop to review the legal threat currently sitting on my talk page and act accordingly, see more specifically "If it is proved that you are knowingly costing the campaign to lose exposure, (hence lost revenue) because you disallowed the article based on you own inability to follow through, then you may find yourself financially liable". The whole conversation with this user has been unproductive, but that's not the point : if I'm financially liable to anything, then I need to be made aware of it through the proper channels. Until then, this stands as an unacceptable legal threat. CharlieEchoTango (contact) 08:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I do believe a week is long enough for him to read the relevant policies and redact his threats. If not, I am able to give him a longer break. —Dark 08:56, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sure thing, thank you! CharlieEchoTango (contact) 09:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry, a week is not good enough. Legal threats are normally blocked indefinitely, until or if the threat is withdrawn. This one is not only a blatant legal threat, but also a blatant attempt at using wikipedia for marketing reasons. A single-purpose account with no value to wikipedia. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 09:31, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sure thing, thank you! CharlieEchoTango (contact) 09:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
User:GlamMetalANIKILATOR
GlamMetalANIKILATOR (talk · contribs) is a classic example of a genre warrior. Their entire contribution history consists of making POV-based genre changes without any explanation, discussion, or reference, leaving maybe 3 edit summaries out of about 80 such edits. They have received & ignored multiple final warnings for this behavior from multiple other editors, yet they've never been blocked. Time for a block, IMO. --IllaZilla (talk) 21:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I am very temped to indef block but since I might have done a revert in there, I will save this for another admin --GuerilleroMy Talk 22:57, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Three "final warnings" in the same month for this activity is a bit disturbing, and I agree that some form of action needs to be taken against this user... not as punnishment, but as a means of protecting the articles and their content. -- WikHead (talk) 22:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked one week for disruptive editing. CharlieEchoTango (contact) 01:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- As a side note, looking at the contribs, I see at least two, maybe more, examples of that editor making the sort of edit mentioned, followed immediately by a null edit, presumably to try and prevent other users from easily reverting it. While that hasn't happened since the 10th, it should probably be noted by anyone reviewing this. rdfox 76 (talk) 13:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked one week for disruptive editing. CharlieEchoTango (contact) 01:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Three "final warnings" in the same month for this activity is a bit disturbing, and I agree that some form of action needs to be taken against this user... not as punnishment, but as a means of protecting the articles and their content. -- WikHead (talk) 22:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
User:Yopie
I hope that I have come to the right place now.
The user Yopie has been involves in several disputes and complaints. Here is a selection:
- 2009: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive109#User:Yopie_reported_by_Lucas_.28Result:_Protected.29
- 2010: User_talk:Yopie/Archives#Blocked
- 2011: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive151#User:Yopie_and_User:86.101.110.57_reported_by_User:Nmate_.28Result:_Semiprotected.29
- 2011: Wikipedia:Wikiquette_assistance/archive111#User:Yopie
For many years, the user
- has misused various functions, especially by that he, in combination, reverts legitimate and/or rule-supported edits and threatens his opponents with 3RR,
- has demonstrated unwillingness to contribute to clean and neutral articles of academically good quality,
- has demonstrated disruptive patterns of behaviour.
The cases 2 and 3 in the following complaint in Wikiquette assistance, which is among several reactions against this, broadly describes the problem, which remains unchanged since September 2011 and earlier: Wikipedia:Wikiquette_assistance/archive111#User:Yopie
As concrete and recent examples, I would especially draw the attention to False titles of nobility and Alexander Montagu, 13th Duke of Manchester. The last-mentioned is a so-called BLP. Despite rules stating that challenged (poorly sources, biassed, etc.) content in BLPs must be ‘immediately removed’ and must not be re-added without discussion, the user has re-added it.
I allow myself to suggest that administrators, independently of me as a user and of my limited explanation, seek to investigate the user’s broader history on Wikipedia in order to determinate whether there exist problems that require a solution. Indications are strong for that the user is related to problems which have consisted for a considerably long time and which, without administrators’ intervention, likely will continue as before.
— Breadbasket 18:05, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Unless there is an urgent problem requiring an immediate blockturns out he's blocked right now for edit warring. I don't think you are in fact in the right place. WP:RFC/U would be the correct forum for an in-depth discussion of one particular user. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)- Oh trust me, Breakbasket has been advised a half-dozen times about WP:RFC/U, but refuses to listen (simply deletes my posts from his talkpage). In fact, he's gone off and filed an ArbComm case. He has forum shopped all over Wikipedia today, from AN/3RR to here, to RFArb. It's becoming blockable in and of itself. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:11, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ah, so he's into Australian throwing sports. Gotcha. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oh trust me, Breakbasket has been advised a half-dozen times about WP:RFC/U, but refuses to listen (simply deletes my posts from his talkpage). In fact, he's gone off and filed an ArbComm case. He has forum shopped all over Wikipedia today, from AN/3RR to here, to RFArb. It's becoming blockable in and of itself. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:11, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- No, no, wait a minute. The so-called ‘forum shopping’ is a result of an unnecessarily complex bureaucracy. The 3RR process(es) was (were) initiated earlier and is (are) not directly related to yesterday's Arb etc.
- My thought when reporting the user, was that the problem is not limited to one article and one opposing user, but involves several articles and several opposing users, and this over at least three years. I might not be a user who does everything correctly, but I have contributed more than I have reverted, and I have not, unlike Yopie, acted like a complete ... ever since I came to this site.
- Thanks.
- — Breadbasket 15:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Article creation
I want to create article Dmitry Mezentsev why I cant???--94.228.193.11 (talk) 15:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- You would need to create an account in order to start an article. And please read WP:NOTE to determine whether the article will be about something notable or not. NHRHS2010 the student pilot ✈ 15:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Starting an article. GiantSnowman 15:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Please somebody create - he is a governor and of cource notable--94.228.193.11 (talk) 15:37, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, then create a userid ... or submit it at articles for creation. This has been standard practice at Wikipedia for years. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 15:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Why anonims cant? Thats unjust like SOPA. Now I have an account!--Enemyofmuslims (talk) 15:42, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- (EC)Subject appears to be a current Russian political candidate with no prior notability. Minimal search results in English language sources means reliable sources are harder to locate and verify; be sure to provide some sort of RS for your new article. Doc Tropics 15:43, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Started the article, yes you have an account, but your username is a violation of policy. Change it. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I had reported this username to UAA as part of normal patrolling before I even noticed the edit was to ANI. Nevertheless I stand by the report that this is a blatant violation. My76Strat (talk) 15:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- This response doesn't bode well. Voceditenore (talk) 15:50, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Worrying response. GiantSnowman 15:50, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I can see it's going to be one of those mornings.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I've hard-blocked for username violation. Initially soft-blocked, but thought better of it considering the statements made. Sorry for mucking things up. DangerHigh voltage! 15:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I understand that it's annoying that anonymous IP addresses can't create an article, but creating an account on Wikipedia is easy. Very easy compared with creating an account on other websites, like YouTube. Besides, anon IP addresses were able to start articles up until, like 2005 (long before I even became involved in editing Wikipedia) but due to excessive creation of non-notable pages, usually in a form of vandalism, Wikipedia is no longer allowing anonymous creation of pages. So if you want to start an article, please create an account. Not that hard. NHRHS2010 the student pilot ✈ 16:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Nothing left to see here ... turns out the complainant was a rampant xenophobe with an axe to grind. World's better off without that type of people, as is Wikipedia (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Islamic Golden Age
Doc Tropics (talk · contribs) has been restoring conspiracy views by an unreliable author back into the Islamic Golden Age article (1, 2). The author, whom "Doc Tropics" acknowledges that he's not a specialist, calls the entire period a "myth...intended to distract attention from modern Islam". Another editor stepped-in and removed the harmful content. But I wanted to bring to your attention the insults by "Doc Tropics", where he wrote: "sorry [Al-Andalusi], but you are entirely untrustworthy and your edits are suspect. this needs to be defended on the talkpage". I also left him a note on his talk page and notified him about this discussion. Thank you. Al-Andalusi (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think calling someone "entirely untrustworthy" is appropriate. But nor is using insults like "racist", "retarded", "hypocritical", and "idiotic." You should both make your points without personal attacks. Superm401 - Talk 00:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
User:Darkness Shines editing content in dispute at DR/N while himself in a content dispute there
I am sorry if this is not the right place, but I thought this was a bit odd and should be brought up here as I percieve this as innapropriate behavior. It seems User:Darkness Shines has taken it upon himself to add content back on one article[121] while it is currently in dispute instead of adding to the discussion to help form consensus. The behavior comes across a bit agressive, in that he himself is in the middle of a DR/N for content[122] and gives the perception that he is disrupting the process. I left a note on his talk page requesting a self revert and asked that he weigh in on the discussion as well as leaving a note at the mediators talk page (User:Steven Zhang).--Amadscientist (talk) 22:08, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- OMG! Toddst1(talk) 22:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- ?? Am I in need of a good trout slapping?--Amadscientist (talk) 22:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I really don't see any issue here. Toddst1(talk) 23:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I actually do. I also don't think your behavior in this matter is helping or your assumption of bad faith from forgetting to notify the user. Do you often handle ANI in this manner?--Amadscientist (talk) 23:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Anyone else you want to lash out at while you're at it? If not, we're done here. Otherwise, keep typing. Toddst1(talk) 23:09, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- You should not be an admin here. That was uncivil and very off putting and I think you are stepping over a line to make such remarks. You done here sir...I am not. How exactly was this resolved? It wasn't....you blew me off. You didn't resolve it.--Amadscientist (talk) 23:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Anyone else you want to lash out at while you're at it? If not, we're done here. Otherwise, keep typing. Toddst1(talk) 23:09, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I actually do. I also don't think your behavior in this matter is helping or your assumption of bad faith from forgetting to notify the user. Do you often handle ANI in this manner?--Amadscientist (talk) 23:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I really don't see any issue here. Toddst1(talk) 23:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- ?? Am I in need of a good trout slapping?--Amadscientist (talk) 22:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I'm lost. You have a dispute about Occupy Wall Street at DRN that doesn't involve Darkness Shines. Meanwhile, Darkness has a dispute at DRN on a completely different topic. And you're complaining about Darkness's edit to the Occupy article because of the other dispute at DRN?? I see absolutely no relationship here, just a content dispute at Occupy Wall Street (how surprising).--Bbb23 (talk) 23:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- While you may have grounds to complain that Toddst1 was perhaps being a bit more flippant than was strictly required, his assessment seems accurate. To make you happy I will immediately deal with the first issue - Toddst1, consider yourself trout-slapped. Hopefully this fully resolves the matter. Manning (talk) 23:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
I think just plainly saying that to begin with and not treating editors in such uncivil manner would have been a lot better as I was prepared to strike the whole thing out. Thanks to the two civil comments I will not pursue this further.--Amadscientist (talk) 23:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think the bad-faith lack of notifying DS coupled with canvassing all about a non-issue with someone you're in a content disupte with speaks for itself as Wikipedia:Tendentious editing. Perhaps you should stay away from DS for a while. Toddst1 (talk) 23:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- What canvassing are you speaking of? You don't mean the poke I was asked to make at DR/N on mediator pages? If so you prove to lack any sense.--Amadscientist (talk) 23:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- This was the single most discouraging thing I have experianced on this site in 5 years. Thanks for showing me how things are handled here. While it may not have been an issue....all that was needed was simply to say that and not begin with a cryptic statement that gave no information at all.--Amadscientist (talk) 23:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Amadscientist - You have a golden opportunity here to walk away and have everything forgotten. I am one of the most lenient admins around, but you are seriously starting to get me offside with these insults against another editor. Please consider dropping this and going away, before a less lenient admin becomes involved. Manning (talk) 23:42, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Post-hypnotic suggestion
I prodded this article on 1/22/2012 because it consisted of two lines, was covered in Hypnosis already, and apparently had no citeable material in four years of edits. Four hours after the prod expired on 1/29/2012, DGG, as an administrative action, declined to delete it (diff). His rationale says "If Encyclopedia Britannica has an article, so do we. Easily expandable or redirectable." The first part of the rationale is not defensible - we are not a carbon copy of EB, and just because EB had an article in it 100 years ago doesn't mean we need to have one now. That's very much OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The second part is partially defensible - it can be redirected, but if it was expandable, it would have been in four years. The problem is that much of the material doesn't meet RS, and therefore it's got more potential as a FRINGE fork than it does as an article. If DGG had a concern, it should have come up during the week prior, not be summarily adjudged by him after the time period for comment had elapsed. The prod ran its course and should be deleted. MSJapan (talk) 22:29, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- It was a PROD. That means that, even if the article had been deleted, any editor could have asked for its restoration at any time. If you want to pursue deletion, you'll have to go to AfD. CIreland (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Since the article was uncited except for one deadlink, per WP:BOLD I redirected it to Hypnosis#Post-hypnotic suggestion, which coincidentally is also an uncited one line section. If someone wants to dig up some WP:RELIABLE sources and expand, they can remove the redirect. Heiro 22:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- ...Which was, almost certainly, the right thing to do. If EB has an article, that suggests that it's a topic that we ought to cover in some way, shape or form—or at least, that it's a term for which someone might reasonably expect to search, and for which – if we don't have an article – we ought to at least have a redirect to a relevant topic. Deletion was never the correct course here, and DGG's action was appropriate. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 01:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Since the article was uncited except for one deadlink, per WP:BOLD I redirected it to Hypnosis#Post-hypnotic suggestion, which coincidentally is also an uncited one line section. If someone wants to dig up some WP:RELIABLE sources and expand, they can remove the redirect. Heiro 22:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
On this day correction
I noticed this help request - User_talk:Jetstreamer#Correct_Main_page. I think it needs attention because it appears valid, and would require an admin to alter the relevant Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries item. Begoon talk 00:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Fixed. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Unacceptable edit
Lecen (talk · contribs) recently made this post, which I've said on his talk page is unacceptable. As I've said there, I would have blocked him for that already, but I'm not sure I can be totally objective here. Lecen replied at my talk page here. I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done here, but I can see that something needs doing. There is some background to this, but that edit by Lecen really crossed so many lines I don't know where to start. The following edit also needs reviewing. I'll put a link from Lecen's talk page to this thread. Carcharoth (talk) 23:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Do I have the chance to explain myself or decisions will be made without bothering to learn what were my reasons? --Lecen (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unless your explanation also contains an apology, I don't think it'll make much difference... Salvio Let's talk about it! 23:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Since I'm being judged and condemned without hearing, you may call in the firing squad. --Lecen (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- It might help your case if you would post a diff as to where someone actually threatened to snuff you. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Since I'm being judged and condemned without hearing, you may call in the firing squad. --Lecen (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unless your explanation also contains an apology, I don't think it'll make much difference... Salvio Let's talk about it! 23:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) The reason you're notified about this discussion is to give you a "hearing". Instead of asking what you can do and complaining about a result that has not yet been reached, why don't you "explain"? Salvio is just giving you fair warning that on the face of it your comments look awful and trying to prevent you from digging yourself deeper into a hole.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Might I add that the following statement opens up an even bigger can of worms: "Even less when I know that a highly respected FA writer is thinking on opening a RfC about her" ([123]). Since when did FA writers become part of plots to block users due to differing opinions? Whatever happened to WP:AGF?
- Either I'm being paranoic or there is something going on here bigger (and much uglier) than it seems at face value. I hope Lecen can explain. Best of wishes.--MarshalN20Talk 23:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, he said to give him 15 minutes to find that diff, and now it's been more like 20. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:40, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- You guys need to show a little respect here and allow the man the time he needs to prepare his statement. Thank you. --Dianna (talk) 23:44, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- 10-4 on the little respect. We're showing as little respect as possible. 0:) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- You guys need to show a little respect here and allow the man the time he needs to prepare his statement. Thank you. --Dianna (talk) 23:44, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
horrifying statements & his failure immediately to apologize at ANI merit at least a one-day block (and perhaps the usual indefinite block that can be removed by contrition and a pledge to avoid sexist insults, etc.) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:45, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
What explanation is imaginable? That nearly all-powerful demons threatened to sacrifice an innocent child or aliens threatened to vaporize the earth unless Lecen violated NPA with sexist insults? Save such explanations for freshmen philosophy! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- People you need to stop posting here. He is busy writing his own eulogy. --Dianna (talk) 23:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Now there's some little respect. Kudos. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- "Need"? Let him write it on his talk page. WP doesn't tolerate sexist insults. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- The sexism can be seen in a subtle manner. For instance:
- Case 1: "I wonder if she has a family, boyfriend, or even a dog." ([124]). So, women need boyfriends to keep them sane?
- Case 2: "We should buy her a puppy nonetheless" (same diff as above). Women need puppies to keep them busy?
- Case 3: "Nevermind. It would be a bad idea. She would end up eating the poor puppy in a fit of rage" ([125]). A terrible case of female hysteria?
- Of course, assuming good faith, he probably did not mean to be sexist. However, that his statements can be seen as sexist (which, I believe to have demonstrated that they can be seen as such), is another matter. Note that I am not accusing Lecen of sexism, but I do see a reason as to why Kiefer.Wolfowitz finds his statements sexist. Considering Lecen is already blocked, unless this will somehow "accumulate" to his block, this explanation is pointless. In any case, I was writing this prior to him getting blocked, and I do believe it is important to at least be aware that, given the accusation of sexism, there do exist reasons to believe Lecen made sexist comments regarding Sandy.--MarshalN20Talk 01:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Case 1: No. If Sandy were a man, just substitute girlfriend, and it's the same. Case 2. Same as Case 1. You're adding your own gloss. Case 3. It's bad enough people believe hysteria is sexist, but at least there's an argument for that position, but you want to read sexism into "fit of rage"? Now, Lecen may be sexist (I haven't a clue whether he is), but there's no evidence of it here.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:54, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Assuming Sandy was a man, then my argument makes no sense. The key assumption for my argument is that Sandy is a woman. I italicize "argument" because I am using it in a logical sense, not as in me actually trying to argue with you. You can be certain that I analyzed the matter prior to posting it, and I also exchanged "female" to "male" (which made me doubt as to whether posting the material would be relevant). What I realized was that Lecen knows that Sandy is a female (or at least he thinks that), and then assuming he is trying to be aggressive (which goes against WP:AGF, which is why I am not making a formal accusation; better evidence is obviously required), the outcome is that the statements are in fact sexist. On the other hand, if he was trying to be aggressive towards a man, he probably would not be making mention to "puppies". Alas, this matter is really beyond the purpose of this ANI (which is already resolved). Nonetheless, I would love to discuss this on our personal talk space (I enjoy logic). Best regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 02:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Case 1: No. If Sandy were a man, just substitute girlfriend, and it's the same. Case 2. Same as Case 1. You're adding your own gloss. Case 3. It's bad enough people believe hysteria is sexist, but at least there's an argument for that position, but you want to read sexism into "fit of rage"? Now, Lecen may be sexist (I haven't a clue whether he is), but there's no evidence of it here.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:54, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The sexism can be seen in a subtle manner. For instance:
My comments
I have no direct contact with SandyGeorgia, this must be made clear right at the start. Although I have successfully nominated several articles leading them to raised to FA standard, I was not involved in the ongoing FAC crisis.I din't take part in the discussion on the FAC talk page, nor did I took part of the discussion here, between SandyGeorgia and Wehwalt. To be frank, I simply don't care about it. For some reason which I'm not entirely aware of, SandyGeorgia has been nurturing a sheer hatred toward me for at least a month.
How do I know that? There was a discussion a few weeks ago right here, at the Administrators' noticeboard, where an editor complained about ed17, an administrator who closed a move request. I was indirectly involved because I voted on that move request. However, even though she didn't take part neither on the move request, nor had ever shown any kind of interest on the subject being discussed, for some reason she appeared out of nowhere and called for my block and threatened me by saying that she would open a RfC about me. See here: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive735#Premature RM closure of John VI of Portugal
These were her words:
- "Why is it that admins hestitate to ... well .. do what admins are supposed to do? And why is it that Alarbus, who has all the hallmarks of being a returning editor and who shares a position with Lecen and Ed on the FA director issue (and a review of their editing histories and talk pages shows that Alarbus came to support Lecen over the "Wehwalt for FA director" issue-- a phrase first seen from Alarbus on the Lecen issue are now editing on the same side of a conflict? As Lecen has already shown, there is an abundance of articles that refer to John by his name in English, this is the en Wiki, and we have naming conventions here. That there are slightly more sources that refer to his Portuguese name than the translation to English is irrelevant to the issue: there is an abundance of sources that support his English name and that translation, so it should be used on en Wiki. WP:SOVEREIGN says "Monarch's first name should be the most common form used in current English works of general reference ... " English! Feel free to point out what I'm missing. And by the way, besides the curious nexus of the apparently returning editor Alarbus suddenly supporting Lecen's content positions after they came together on the FA issue, there has been a long history of canvassing on this suite of articles, so again, why the heck aren't admins looking at the things they're supposed to be looking at: disruptive behaviors, returning editors with a possible agenda, possible meatpuppetry-- is it rocket science or did we not have an arb finding a few years ago about coordinated editing? Why must we have an RFC when we have policies and conventions? Why are admins unable to sort this here and be done with it? SandyGeorgia"
And also:
- "More background: before I knew him at FAC, I had edited with Lecen at Hugo Chavez. While we share views on what has gone wrong in that article to make it POV (the who, how and why it came to ignore reliable sources to become a pro-Chavez hagiography), Lecen was so argumentative and disruptive on the talk page that he effectively shot any effort to NPOV the article in the foot, using the talk page for long anti-Chavez rants, leading me to recuse on his FACs, where he then went on to alienate reviewers and delegates alike with the same intransigent, IDHT, argumentative and confrontational style,[94] leading him to sour grapes at FAC, leading to Alarbus's post about the Wehwalt for FA director campaign. Lecen is very difficult to edit with, which is why he's having a hard time getting FACs reviewed-- he argues with everyone about everything. So give the poor fellow who came here with a legitimate issue a chance; solve the problem. SandyGeorgia"
I repeat: she didn't take part on the discussion and I was not the reason of the opened thread. In fact, there weren't a single moment where she and I had exchanged any kind of conversation. She appeared out of nowhere and asked for my block. Read the text and you'll see that she claimed I'm disruptive and no one wants to review my FACs. In fact, according to her, I have an "intransigent, IDHT, argumentative and confrontational style". Keep this in mind.
Time passed, and she and I had not a single moment where we bumped into each other. Accoding to her, no one can tolerate me. Then, why was I interviewed on Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-01-16/Featured content a little more than ten days ago? Because of this interview, Maryana from the WMF came talk to me, and gave her support. See here. Out of nowhere, SandyGeorgia appeared, and complained to her about her remarks and again started accusing me. See here and here. Notice how rude, aggressive and ironic SandyGeorgia was to someone whom she never met and because of something that had absolutely nothing to with her. Again, and to someone who didn't know me, SandyGeorgia appeared out of nowhere to defame me.
I repeat again: I was not discussing with SandyGeorgia in any place, I was not arguing with her, nor anything similar. In fact, I believe the last time I talked to her was a few months ago on her own talk page, where I gave her my support for something she had passed through. However, we aren't done yet. I'm right now taking part on another move request, where I complained about the other side. Why did I made complaints? Well, because they were using sock puppets, canvassing and erasing comments[126][127]. One of these editors made a threat on my talk page and I asked him to stop bothering me. He was quite angry and went to complain about me on Wikiquette. Because I was complained about his side use of sock puppets, canvassing and message erasing. What did happen? SandyGeorgia appeared out of nowhere. She ws not taking part on the discussion, nor has even demonstrated any interest on the subject being discussed. What did she do? She defamed me and threatened to open a RfC about me.[128]
As you can see, it has been months that I don't talk to her and for some reason which I'm not aware, she keeps harassing me, defaming me for people who don't know her and who don't me. What about my comments? Well, I made a joke. It's quite obviously I wasn't serious. Or do anyone belives that she would be capable of flying to Brazil to kill me? Does she now my adress? Has anyone here seen Brazil? It's the size of USA. I was clearly joking and it's quite obvious I don't believe she would be capable of eating a puppy. I made a joke to a friend so that I wouldn't waiste my time arguing directly to her. As all of you can see, I wasn't talking to her (the last time occurred months ago) and she was not involved in any of the discussions I was taking part of. She is clearly wikihounding me, harassing me and defaming me. Others would have lost their temper a long time ago, but I chose to make a joke. --Lecen (talk) 00:01, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- @Lecen,
- That is an unacceptable cop out. You didn't apologize for stating that she needed to get a boyfriend or a dog or engage in the real world. Just hit the road. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Humor depends on a shared context between the teller and audience; user talk pages are open to the entire community. Your personal attacks and speculation about her were not appropriate. I'd suggest you remove them immediately, apologize, and never do it again. Nobody Ent 00:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
That's an interesting one-sided account, Lecen. But I'm stil curious: where did I, in the words of Bugs, threaten to "snuff you" or anything close? Since I most certainly have lived in Argentina, worked in Brasil and throughout Latin America, and frequently travel there, your post is most disturbing. Did you miss that the crux of the matter is that you suggested that I might kill you???
Some of Lecen's other recent activity (in fact, it was the WP:WQA where I'm a watcher that alerted me to the requested move, which is on a topic involving two countries I've lived and worked in) include:
- Here, Lecen tells another editor to "learn his place" (while flauting his FAs), and
- Here, he encourages BATTLEGROUND for a young editor who had just made his peace with another editor.
- The post to Maryana was about her claims of bad faith as they relate to groups of other editors-- something that WMF employees shouldn't be doing.
- FAC had quite a time with Lecen (see this sample), so these latest behaviors are not entirely surprising.
I don't see a retraction or an apology, or even an acknowledgement of the gravity of his statements, and don't know why this is still going on, but I do know that we can count on Diannaa to defend Lecen. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Could you explain why, since we haven't talked for months, you've ben appearing out of nowhere to defame to people who don't know me? And if Diannaa can't be here, neither can Kiefer.Wolfowitz, who is your friend. This "learn your place" comment was made to the person I mentioned early, whose side was using sock puppets, canvassing and message erasing. --Lecen (talk) 00:17, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- He is? Thanks for letting me know. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:19, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Lecen, I have carefully read your explanation, but I don't think it's good enough. Nothing in what you've described warrants those attacks. You don't have to apologise, forced apologies are meaningless, but I strongly suggest you redact those posts. Salvio Let's talk about it! 00:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with Salvio. We are discussing Lecen's conduct. Even assuming he was provoked, the comments are unjustified. So, Lecen needs to understand that and take remedial action. As a separate matter, if he has a complaint against Sandy, let him bring it. But first he needs to correct his own behavior.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Lecen - There may well be a deeper issue concerning Sandy Georgia that merits investigation. However Wikipedia does not recognise the "she hit me first" argument. Even assuming that you had been outrageously provoked, your response is still not acceptable. You have clearly been here long enough to know the correct procedures for complaining about another editor's conduct. So in summary, this current issue only concerns the statements you made about Sandy Georgia. Even if every allegation you make about her conduct were true, this still does not justify your statements. Hence you have no option but to retract them, and apologise for any offence caused. Once that is done, then if you wish to open an incident with us about the conduct of Sandy Georgia, I assure you it will be examined fairly. Manning (talk) 00:22, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I will be glad to apologize, and even erase my comments, if SandyGeorgia also apologizes to me for having openly defamed me to people who don't know me and if she promises to stop wikihounding and harrassing me. As you saw, I don't even talk to her, I don't even contribute on the same articles as she. All I ask is to her to stop defaming, wikihounding, and harassing me. That's fair. --Lecen (talk) 00:22, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- No, that's not fair. I've just blocked you for a week for displaying a battleground mentality. As usual, review is welcome and fellow admins may tweak the block. Salvio Let's talk about it! 00:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Lecen - I have been trying to ensure your fair treatment. This case is about YOUR conduct, which the admins have concluded is unacceptable. Your response above is basically just a reworked attempt of the "she hit me first" argument, which I have already said doesn't work here. Also using the language "defamed" is specifically identified in our NLT as a bad practice. While I am probably a bit softer than Salvio, I must support the block decision. Please indicate a willingness to redact your original statement, indicate to us that you understand that YOUR conduct is unacceptable, and then we shall move on. And I repeat, once that is done the issue with Sandy Georgia will be examined fairly and impartially. Manning (talk) 00:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- No mention of me here five days ago, or here three days ago, or here two days ago ... shall I continue? "Defaming" you sounds somewhat Wikilawyerish, especially when coming from someone who says he's a lawyer. Wikihounding and harassing? Lecen, I lived in those countries. I watchlist WP:WQA. Expecting an apology from me for editing the 'pedia when you suggested I might kill you, when you know from our editing together on Hugo Chavez that I do know my way around South America? (I started this post before seeing that Lecen was blocked, so will go ahead and post it, FWIW, but done.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Lecen appears to be accepting his block. I've advised him that if he abides by our request for redaction and apologizes for his conduct, then we will listen to his allegations about Sandy Georgia, and review the matter fairly and impartially. Conversely, if no redaction is forthcoming, then I am neither inclined to lift the block or hear his grievance. Until then, the matter should be considered as closed. Manning (talk) 01:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with what Manning has said elsewhere that the matter should be dropped for now, but I would like to comment on a side issue: I noticed the WMF staffer making the comments mentioned above, and I found them to be highly inappropriate. I was watchching their talk following an exchange at User talk:Beetstra#Update: new user warning test results available where I made two comments to strongly disagree with a line being pushed by two WMF staffers.Johnuniq (talk) 03:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- To be fair, my reading was that the staffer was just expressing sympathy with Lecen over the socking isssue they expressed, which certainly is bad-faith editing. I didn't read it as the staffer expressing an opinion on the merits or claiming to have investigated the issue. Nor did they appear to be aware of Lecen's history on-project, they were just trying to be nice. Franamax (talk) 04:39, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Reads like Lecen is getting wronged
It's not like I haven't had my ground-scraping nuts referred to by Sandy or Moni. (Or had an incredible set (even just in number) set of conspiracies alleged against me (I am in the employ of WMF, Wehwalt, Alarbus, Croaton HighSchool, and the USEP). Sometimes her rants don't even make sense (like I spoke out against USEP issues and it was her little clique that messed up the Barking Fish thing, not me.) Or the girls haven't giggled about how the Wiki nerds don't get laid. In any case, it is so lame to be trying to find out who was wrong (or more wrong) and then run to mommy with complaints. And the all holy "diffs".
Sandy who loves to defend Mallman or Ceoil has taken to using the run to ANI like it was going out of style. I don't think the problem is all the thugs. I think the problem is Sandy. There is just a huge clique going back years here. And Sandy is basically not a fair individual.
I don't think Lecen should apologize (it was not that harsh). Basic point of it was that Sandy is very focused and drives these clique battles on the site (and has done so for years, we have all seen it). The whole idea that Lecen should have to crawl and then prepare some counter charges is just Wiki lawyers stuff. You all should adjuticate on what you see instead of expecting people to spend time on these legalistic defenses and then assuming if they don't, that they must be in the wrong. Or...that they are just not playing the Wiki drama game the way you expect.
Oh...and just on a note of "justice". Even IF LECEN IS WRONG, his apology is irrelevant. If Sandy was wrong too...then she was wrong too at that time. That's just trying to use some lever to drive behavior...to threaten not to look at both sides unless he says he was sorry first.
Lecen: do what you think is right. If you think you were wrong, apologize. If not, don't. In any case, don't decide off of "if I don't apologize, the moderators won't look at both sides of the flame war."
TCO (talk) 04:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- TCO - I understand your argument. However the complaint against Lecen was raised first, and ignoring all other factors, Lecen was in the wrong and needs to redact. The reason I am being so rigid on this point is twofold. (1) If it were acceptable to demand resolution of a separate issue before accepting our judgment on the first issue, then everybody would do this and we would be enmeshed in permanent chaos. (2) By resolving this first issue we can look at the second issue cleanly. If during a second investigation anyone attempts to raise this first issue, we can dismiss it on the grounds it has already been dealt with (and probably admonish the responsible party for doing so). I hope that makes sense. Manning (talk) 04:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Damn.That is actually a fucking excellent argument. Where did you come from?
Never seen you, man! Yeah, disaggregation totally makes sense (and we like...uh...totally never do it). Still don't think his remark was that rough, but it was definitely directed at the person. Give him the night to think it over. And some cardio (lifting weights angry gets you hurt, cardio is the way to go when angry.)TCO (talk) 05:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Damn.That is actually a fucking excellent argument. Where did you come from?
- Yes Lecen was wronged, Carcharoth could have blocked immediately. That would have avoided this venue, with the free shovels and chants of "dig dig dig". There is no provision here that you can dramatically escalate a dispute, then claim that all issues must be treated at once with prizes for all. We don't work that way, editors are expected to present their problems calmly and rationally. I'm pretty sure SG has flown to fewer than 10 countries to kill WP editors, but if you notice a contrary trend, please do report it here. Franamax (talk) 04:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but often when new issues are raised, they're addressed. While a block might be appropriate for Lecen, SandyGeorgia's behaviour probably needs a check as well. I'd suggest Lecen use the block time to put together any other evidence they might have with a more coherent timeline. Though honestly, I can't count the times I've heard established editors try and excuse another editor's behaviour because they were "provoked". It is pretty much the go to defense for certain groups of editors on certain topics. Perhaps that only works if you have a large enough group of friends.--Crossmr (talk) 08:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The excuse "They hit me first" is not valid in a playground, in a court of law, or on Wikipedia. I'm sure someone has written an essay on this point somewhere. Manning (talk) 09:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I never said it was an excuse in this case or that Lecen shouldn't be blocked because of it. I pointed out though, that it is frequently used by some people as an excuse on wikipedia and I've often seen it used successfully. I hope in the future the people who are here hanging Lecen out to dry will remember that. And for the record, he hit me first, or was about to hit me, is valid in a court of law. This is not the case here, and while Lecen may have been dealt with, there may be a larger issue here that needs addressed in the form of SandyGeorgia.--Crossmr (talk) 00:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I realsise my name is mud[129] here, but to give context, TCO is a just a gear-head who thinks he's a lot more clever than he actually is, and his excitable bursts do not impresse thoes that bother to listen. Carchold is an oppurtunist with an axe to grind against Sandy, for whatever long forgotten reason. Both are gaming, and thinking in a longer view; x 10000. Fact of the matter is Lecen is an extreamly difficult person, hes unwilling to accept help or advice, and is prob (Personal attack removed). The obvious under a cloud Allarbus, TCO and Ch sees this, and are using an exception to beat a political horse. For shame; if ye guys really gave a fuck ye'd be helping him and guiding h as to how to interact, rather than making capital. Ive seen this before with Ottova, and it makes me want to vomit. A talented writer who only needs guidance and hes tossed about and used up in gaming and in-fighting. Jesus christ. Shame. Ceoil (talk) 12:08, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ceoil, I think you could have made your point adequately without insulting everyone on the autistic spectrum, which had to be redacted by someone else here. A reference to someone else's mental health is way out of line. Surely you can comment on the substance without your perception of the mental framework of another editor, and without disparaging several tens of million people.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The excuse "They hit me first" is not valid in a playground, in a court of law, or on Wikipedia. I'm sure someone has written an essay on this point somewhere. Manning (talk) 09:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Wehwalt, you misunderstand me completly, to the extent that I can even be bothered to explain why. If you are so egar look past my point and to rush towards an o poor me on an others behalf, I dont even know what to say to you. Except this; you are the one exploiting here, and you know it. My position is to help, yours is towards capital. Ceoil (talk) 16:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I suppose I misunderstand this as well. That is an appalling thing to say about your fellow editors, especially by a editor already blocked for incivility. However, it is for us to take insults; failure to do so is disruptive and of course, the terrible incivility is excusable if you know the whole history. Not.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- SandyGeorgia's behavior and actions should not go unnoticed. She needs to be held accountable. Lecen is not wrong in the way he feels. People need to read his post and links. I've looked at the whole situation and it's clear that Sandy is watching his edits. She's not just showing up out the blue. She has him on her watchlist and appears to be stalking him. I'm not sure why, but it's obvious she has it in for Lecen. She's harassing him from what I can tell. And she hasn't exactly been civil either in regards to Lecen. I do not believe he owes her an apology. Sandy owes him one. Sandy also needs to remember WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Her actions and behavior are unacceptable. Completely wrong and so unacceptable. I should also note that Sandy's commments in this thread about User:Diannaa (an admin) was done in very poor taste. Cadencool 01:22, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I have not had time to follow up on all this, but certainly Lecen should retract, since SG claims to be offended (and others on her behalf). To retract something said in jest (as he claims, and as seems self evident from the whole tone of the paragraph) is not onerous request. I recently said a user had accused me of risking "destruction of most of the known universe" - this was obviously hyperbole, but if that people were offended on that user's behalf, and took it seriously, I would bow to their lack of perception and retract the claim explicitly. Having dealt with that (or not) the substantive matters should be looked into. Rich Farmbrough, 17:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
- I have not had time to follow up on all this, but certainly Lecen should retract, since SG claims to be offended (and others on her behalf). To retract something said in jest (as he claims, and as seems self evident from the whole tone of the paragraph) is not onerous request. I recently said a user had accused me of risking "destruction of most of the known universe" - this was obviously hyperbole, but if that people were offended on that user's behalf, and took it seriously, I would bow to their lack of perception and retract the claim explicitly. Having dealt with that (or not) the substantive matters should be looked into. Rich Farmbrough, 17:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
Edit warring on South Vietnam and North Vietnam
Could someone take a look at the recent edit warring on articles North Vietnam and South Vietnam? This involves IPs 24.52.193.213 and 24.52.193.213, and myself. My talk page has been caught up in this dispute, as you can see here. Perhaps these pages can be semi-protected or protected until this issue dies down. Kauffner (talk) 00:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm asking now: why do you mean that North VIetnam was "client state" while South VIetnam was not? I don't really understand what you mean. 188.113.91.110 (talk) 00:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- This also involves user Mr.A as well. I ask if Wikipedia can please fully protect the 2 articles permanently, as there has been content issues for a few years already, so that way both new and more older editors, both registered & non-registered users cannot change the articles, which is the scenario here which involved non-registered users and logged-in ones. Thank you for your concern — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.52.193.213 (talk) 09:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Is administrative action required here, or can this thread be closed?--Mollskman (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Uh.. rather a mess up... NV has been protected and the "Client state" comment removed subsequently (with an amusing "WP:wrong version") SV is not protected and the edit warring has continued so that "Client state" is in there. To be even handed either someone should remove the client state from SV and someone else should protect it, or Molksman should be reverted, (preferably by self reverted) and SV should be protected. Rich Farmbrough, 18:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
- Uh.. rather a mess up... NV has been protected and the "Client state" comment removed subsequently (with an amusing "WP:wrong version") SV is not protected and the edit warring has continued so that "Client state" is in there. To be even handed either someone should remove the client state from SV and someone else should protect it, or Molksman should be reverted, (preferably by self reverted) and SV should be protected. Rich Farmbrough, 18:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
- Is administrative action required here, or can this thread be closed?--Mollskman (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Competance issue
There appears to be a WP:COMPETENCE issue with User:Ananthutom. Although he has some useful edits, he has a penchant for blanking content without explanation, the first warning for which he received on November 11th, and has since received four more warnings for. I gave him a final warning for this behavior yesterday for this which he attempted to deny was him on my talk page. He also as of today has moved his user page and talk page to User:Ananthu Tom, without the normal name change process, thus complicating article history (the original history of his talk page is located at [130] now). Although not forbidden, he also has a penchant for removing the warnings, which leads me to believe that he has read and understood them - despite denying that he does. Could someone take a look at this? Thanks. Falcon8765 (TALK) 18:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I have untangled the moves and restored the history of his talk page, and told him how to apply at CHU if he wants to change username. JohnCD (talk) 19:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Upon further investigation it also appears that there is a vague overlap between User talk:Bothiman's edits and that of the subject of this section. Falcon8765 (TALK) 19:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
See, I am so sorry for my previous edits. I will try my level best to do my edits carefully. I renamed my username because I thought that it was better. I don't know how to change my user name. Please say to me how to do it. I blank out my content because I don't like anything to be in my talk page. You may not believe all these things, but I am saying this most sincerely. Please don't criticize me.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ananthutom (talk • contribs)
- The problem isn't that you attempted to change your username incorrectly, and you are allowed to blank anything you want on your own talk page. However, your blanking of sourced content on article's and then trying to deny that you just had, and multiple warnings for the same thing warrants scrutiny here. An administrator left you instructions on your talk page on how to correctly go about changing your username after fixing the mess created by your last attempt, and you have apparently done the same attempted thing again. Falcon8765 (TALK) 14:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
User:Pacynka Sobkowskiego
Hi. I report here violations by User:Pacynka Sobkowskiego. "Pacynka Sobkowskiego" means "Sobkowski's sockpuppet" (in Polish). Actually, it is not my sockpuppet but presumably, a blocked user from Polsh Wiki (where I am an admin). Thus, "Pacynka Sobkowskiego" impersonates me and violates Wikipedia:Username policy, I guess. Moreover, tonight he or she has marked my user and user talk pages with the {{sockpuppetProven}} template, which I consider as a malicious vandalism. I ask for appropriate action. Michał Sobkowski (talk) 10:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Admin status on Polish WP confirmed (User rights}. The username does indeed translate to "puppet" as our Polish colleague says. Marking the user page as a sockpuppet seems pretty egregious to me. I'll send him on his way. Manning (talk) 10:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for speedy action! Michał Sobkowski (talk) 12:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Edit warring by IP-hopping anon
Over the last couple of days has there has been a lot of edit warring at Saint Thomas Christians by clearly related IP accounts. So far accounts have included 117.216.79.153 (talk · contribs)([131]); 117.196.129.126 (talk · contribs) ([132]); 117.196.149.0 (talk · contribs) ([133]; 117.196.132.91 (talk · contribs) ([134]); 117.196.137.218 (talk · contribs) ([135]); 117.217.131.29 (talk · contribs) ([136]); 117.196.137.104 (talk · contribs) ([137]); 117.216.74.69 (talk · contribs) ([138]). I warned one of the accounts about edit warring and removing sourced content here and here and tried to explain the situation on the talk page here, to no avail; they never make more than one revert from the same IP before switching.--Cúchullain t/c 16:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Fully protected for two days -this needs to be sorted on the talk page instead of reverting back and forth. TNXMan 16:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
206.15.252.30
The IP editor 206.15.252.30 (talk · contribs) has been adding the {{GA nominee}} template to articles that cleary don't meet theWP:GA? criteria (Pink Friday: Roman Reloaded, Down in It or Invaders Must Die). I, and others, assmued good faith on this user, but after I see his edit at Talk:Arab Spring I noticed that his edits are the same edits that 71.142.222.218 (talk · contribs) [139] and There Is a Fifth Dimension (talk · contribs) [140], this last is blocked from editing as he is User:Guitarherochristopher, a banned editor. This IP needs to be stopped. Tbhotch.™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 17:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Post by banned (and now blocked) IP sock removed. Reaper Eternal (talk) 18:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Unacceptable edit
Lecen (talk · contribs) recently made this post, which I've said on his talk page is unacceptable. As I've said there, I would have blocked him for that already, but I'm not sure I can be totally objective here. Lecen replied at my talk page here. I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done here, but I can see that something needs doing. There is some background to this, but that edit by Lecen really crossed so many lines I don't know where to start. The following edit also needs reviewing. I'll put a link from Lecen's talk page to this thread. Carcharoth (talk) 23:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Do I have the chance to explain myself or decisions will be made without bothering to learn what were my reasons? --Lecen (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unless your explanation also contains an apology, I don't think it'll make much difference... Salvio Let's talk about it! 23:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Since I'm being judged and condemned without hearing, you may call in the firing squad. --Lecen (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- It might help your case if you would post a diff as to where someone actually threatened to snuff you. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Since I'm being judged and condemned without hearing, you may call in the firing squad. --Lecen (talk) 23:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unless your explanation also contains an apology, I don't think it'll make much difference... Salvio Let's talk about it! 23:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) The reason you're notified about this discussion is to give you a "hearing". Instead of asking what you can do and complaining about a result that has not yet been reached, why don't you "explain"? Salvio is just giving you fair warning that on the face of it your comments look awful and trying to prevent you from digging yourself deeper into a hole.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Might I add that the following statement opens up an even bigger can of worms: "Even less when I know that a highly respected FA writer is thinking on opening a RfC about her" ([141]). Since when did FA writers become part of plots to block users due to differing opinions? Whatever happened to WP:AGF?
- Either I'm being paranoic or there is something going on here bigger (and much uglier) than it seems at face value. I hope Lecen can explain. Best of wishes.--MarshalN20Talk 23:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, he said to give him 15 minutes to find that diff, and now it's been more like 20. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:40, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- You guys need to show a little respect here and allow the man the time he needs to prepare his statement. Thank you. --Dianna (talk) 23:44, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- 10-4 on the little respect. We're showing as little respect as possible. 0:) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- You guys need to show a little respect here and allow the man the time he needs to prepare his statement. Thank you. --Dianna (talk) 23:44, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
horrifying statements & his failure immediately to apologize at ANI merit at least a one-day block (and perhaps the usual indefinite block that can be removed by contrition and a pledge to avoid sexist insults, etc.) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:45, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
What explanation is imaginable? That nearly all-powerful demons threatened to sacrifice an innocent child or aliens threatened to vaporize the earth unless Lecen violated NPA with sexist insults? Save such explanations for freshmen philosophy! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- People you need to stop posting here. He is busy writing his own eulogy. --Dianna (talk) 23:54, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Now there's some little respect. Kudos. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- "Need"? Let him write it on his talk page. WP doesn't tolerate sexist insults. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- The sexism can be seen in a subtle manner. For instance:
- Case 1: "I wonder if she has a family, boyfriend, or even a dog." ([142]). So, women need boyfriends to keep them sane?
- Case 2: "We should buy her a puppy nonetheless" (same diff as above). Women need puppies to keep them busy?
- Case 3: "Nevermind. It would be a bad idea. She would end up eating the poor puppy in a fit of rage" ([143]). A terrible case of female hysteria?
- Of course, assuming good faith, he probably did not mean to be sexist. However, that his statements can be seen as sexist (which, I believe to have demonstrated that they can be seen as such), is another matter. Note that I am not accusing Lecen of sexism, but I do see a reason as to why Kiefer.Wolfowitz finds his statements sexist. Considering Lecen is already blocked, unless this will somehow "accumulate" to his block, this explanation is pointless. In any case, I was writing this prior to him getting blocked, and I do believe it is important to at least be aware that, given the accusation of sexism, there do exist reasons to believe Lecen made sexist comments regarding Sandy.--MarshalN20Talk 01:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Case 1: No. If Sandy were a man, just substitute girlfriend, and it's the same. Case 2. Same as Case 1. You're adding your own gloss. Case 3. It's bad enough people believe hysteria is sexist, but at least there's an argument for that position, but you want to read sexism into "fit of rage"? Now, Lecen may be sexist (I haven't a clue whether he is), but there's no evidence of it here.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:54, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Assuming Sandy was a man, then my argument makes no sense. The key assumption for my argument is that Sandy is a woman. I italicize "argument" because I am using it in a logical sense, not as in me actually trying to argue with you. You can be certain that I analyzed the matter prior to posting it, and I also exchanged "female" to "male" (which made me doubt as to whether posting the material would be relevant). What I realized was that Lecen knows that Sandy is a female (or at least he thinks that), and then assuming he is trying to be aggressive (which goes against WP:AGF, which is why I am not making a formal accusation; better evidence is obviously required), the outcome is that the statements are in fact sexist. On the other hand, if he was trying to be aggressive towards a man, he probably would not be making mention to "puppies". Alas, this matter is really beyond the purpose of this ANI (which is already resolved). Nonetheless, I would love to discuss this on our personal talk space (I enjoy logic). Best regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 02:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Case 1: No. If Sandy were a man, just substitute girlfriend, and it's the same. Case 2. Same as Case 1. You're adding your own gloss. Case 3. It's bad enough people believe hysteria is sexist, but at least there's an argument for that position, but you want to read sexism into "fit of rage"? Now, Lecen may be sexist (I haven't a clue whether he is), but there's no evidence of it here.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:54, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The sexism can be seen in a subtle manner. For instance:
My comments
I have no direct contact with SandyGeorgia, this must be made clear right at the start. Although I have successfully nominated several articles leading them to raised to FA standard, I was not involved in the ongoing FAC crisis.I din't take part in the discussion on the FAC talk page, nor did I took part of the discussion here, between SandyGeorgia and Wehwalt. To be frank, I simply don't care about it. For some reason which I'm not entirely aware of, SandyGeorgia has been nurturing a sheer hatred toward me for at least a month.
How do I know that? There was a discussion a few weeks ago right here, at the Administrators' noticeboard, where an editor complained about ed17, an administrator who closed a move request. I was indirectly involved because I voted on that move request. However, even though she didn't take part neither on the move request, nor had ever shown any kind of interest on the subject being discussed, for some reason she appeared out of nowhere and called for my block and threatened me by saying that she would open a RfC about me. See here: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive735#Premature RM closure of John VI of Portugal
These were her words:
- "Why is it that admins hestitate to ... well .. do what admins are supposed to do? And why is it that Alarbus, who has all the hallmarks of being a returning editor and who shares a position with Lecen and Ed on the FA director issue (and a review of their editing histories and talk pages shows that Alarbus came to support Lecen over the "Wehwalt for FA director" issue-- a phrase first seen from Alarbus on the Lecen issue are now editing on the same side of a conflict? As Lecen has already shown, there is an abundance of articles that refer to John by his name in English, this is the en Wiki, and we have naming conventions here. That there are slightly more sources that refer to his Portuguese name than the translation to English is irrelevant to the issue: there is an abundance of sources that support his English name and that translation, so it should be used on en Wiki. WP:SOVEREIGN says "Monarch's first name should be the most common form used in current English works of general reference ... " English! Feel free to point out what I'm missing. And by the way, besides the curious nexus of the apparently returning editor Alarbus suddenly supporting Lecen's content positions after they came together on the FA issue, there has been a long history of canvassing on this suite of articles, so again, why the heck aren't admins looking at the things they're supposed to be looking at: disruptive behaviors, returning editors with a possible agenda, possible meatpuppetry-- is it rocket science or did we not have an arb finding a few years ago about coordinated editing? Why must we have an RFC when we have policies and conventions? Why are admins unable to sort this here and be done with it? SandyGeorgia"
And also:
- "More background: before I knew him at FAC, I had edited with Lecen at Hugo Chavez. While we share views on what has gone wrong in that article to make it POV (the who, how and why it came to ignore reliable sources to become a pro-Chavez hagiography), Lecen was so argumentative and disruptive on the talk page that he effectively shot any effort to NPOV the article in the foot, using the talk page for long anti-Chavez rants, leading me to recuse on his FACs, where he then went on to alienate reviewers and delegates alike with the same intransigent, IDHT, argumentative and confrontational style,[94] leading him to sour grapes at FAC, leading to Alarbus's post about the Wehwalt for FA director campaign. Lecen is very difficult to edit with, which is why he's having a hard time getting FACs reviewed-- he argues with everyone about everything. So give the poor fellow who came here with a legitimate issue a chance; solve the problem. SandyGeorgia"
I repeat: she didn't take part on the discussion and I was not the reason of the opened thread. In fact, there weren't a single moment where she and I had exchanged any kind of conversation. She appeared out of nowhere and asked for my block. Read the text and you'll see that she claimed I'm disruptive and no one wants to review my FACs. In fact, according to her, I have an "intransigent, IDHT, argumentative and confrontational style". Keep this in mind.
Time passed, and she and I had not a single moment where we bumped into each other. Accoding to her, no one can tolerate me. Then, why was I interviewed on Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-01-16/Featured content a little more than ten days ago? Because of this interview, Maryana from the WMF came talk to me, and gave her support. See here. Out of nowhere, SandyGeorgia appeared, and complained to her about her remarks and again started accusing me. See here and here. Notice how rude, aggressive and ironic SandyGeorgia was to someone whom she never met and because of something that had absolutely nothing to with her. Again, and to someone who didn't know me, SandyGeorgia appeared out of nowhere to defame me.
I repeat again: I was not discussing with SandyGeorgia in any place, I was not arguing with her, nor anything similar. In fact, I believe the last time I talked to her was a few months ago on her own talk page, where I gave her my support for something she had passed through. However, we aren't done yet. I'm right now taking part on another move request, where I complained about the other side. Why did I made complaints? Well, because they were using sock puppets, canvassing and erasing comments[144][145]. One of these editors made a threat on my talk page and I asked him to stop bothering me. He was quite angry and went to complain about me on Wikiquette. Because I was complained about his side use of sock puppets, canvassing and message erasing. What did happen? SandyGeorgia appeared out of nowhere. She ws not taking part on the discussion, nor has even demonstrated any interest on the subject being discussed. What did she do? She defamed me and threatened to open a RfC about me.[146]
As you can see, it has been months that I don't talk to her and for some reason which I'm not aware, she keeps harassing me, defaming me for people who don't know her and who don't me. What about my comments? Well, I made a joke. It's quite obviously I wasn't serious. Or do anyone belives that she would be capable of flying to Brazil to kill me? Does she now my adress? Has anyone here seen Brazil? It's the size of USA. I was clearly joking and it's quite obvious I don't believe she would be capable of eating a puppy. I made a joke to a friend so that I wouldn't waiste my time arguing directly to her. As all of you can see, I wasn't talking to her (the last time occurred months ago) and she was not involved in any of the discussions I was taking part of. She is clearly wikihounding me, harassing me and defaming me. Others would have lost their temper a long time ago, but I chose to make a joke. --Lecen (talk) 00:01, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- @Lecen,
- That is an unacceptable cop out. You didn't apologize for stating that she needed to get a boyfriend or a dog or engage in the real world. Just hit the road. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Humor depends on a shared context between the teller and audience; user talk pages are open to the entire community. Your personal attacks and speculation about her were not appropriate. I'd suggest you remove them immediately, apologize, and never do it again. Nobody Ent 00:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
That's an interesting one-sided account, Lecen. But I'm stil curious: where did I, in the words of Bugs, threaten to "snuff you" or anything close? Since I most certainly have lived in Argentina, worked in Brasil and throughout Latin America, and frequently travel there, your post is most disturbing. Did you miss that the crux of the matter is that you suggested that I might kill you???
Some of Lecen's other recent activity (in fact, it was the WP:WQA where I'm a watcher that alerted me to the requested move, which is on a topic involving two countries I've lived and worked in) include:
- Here, Lecen tells another editor to "learn his place" (while flauting his FAs), and
- Here, he encourages BATTLEGROUND for a young editor who had just made his peace with another editor.
- The post to Maryana was about her claims of bad faith as they relate to groups of other editors-- something that WMF employees shouldn't be doing.
- FAC had quite a time with Lecen (see this sample), so these latest behaviors are not entirely surprising.
I don't see a retraction or an apology, or even an acknowledgement of the gravity of his statements, and don't know why this is still going on, but I do know that we can count on Diannaa to defend Lecen. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Could you explain why, since we haven't talked for months, you've ben appearing out of nowhere to defame to people who don't know me? And if Diannaa can't be here, neither can Kiefer.Wolfowitz, who is your friend. This "learn your place" comment was made to the person I mentioned early, whose side was using sock puppets, canvassing and message erasing. --Lecen (talk) 00:17, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- He is? Thanks for letting me know. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:19, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Lecen, I have carefully read your explanation, but I don't think it's good enough. Nothing in what you've described warrants those attacks. You don't have to apologise, forced apologies are meaningless, but I strongly suggest you redact those posts. Salvio Let's talk about it! 00:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with Salvio. We are discussing Lecen's conduct. Even assuming he was provoked, the comments are unjustified. So, Lecen needs to understand that and take remedial action. As a separate matter, if he has a complaint against Sandy, let him bring it. But first he needs to correct his own behavior.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Lecen - There may well be a deeper issue concerning Sandy Georgia that merits investigation. However Wikipedia does not recognise the "she hit me first" argument. Even assuming that you had been outrageously provoked, your response is still not acceptable. You have clearly been here long enough to know the correct procedures for complaining about another editor's conduct. So in summary, this current issue only concerns the statements you made about Sandy Georgia. Even if every allegation you make about her conduct were true, this still does not justify your statements. Hence you have no option but to retract them, and apologise for any offence caused. Once that is done, then if you wish to open an incident with us about the conduct of Sandy Georgia, I assure you it will be examined fairly. Manning (talk) 00:22, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I will be glad to apologize, and even erase my comments, if SandyGeorgia also apologizes to me for having openly defamed me to people who don't know me and if she promises to stop wikihounding and harrassing me. As you saw, I don't even talk to her, I don't even contribute on the same articles as she. All I ask is to her to stop defaming, wikihounding, and harassing me. That's fair. --Lecen (talk) 00:22, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- No, that's not fair. I've just blocked you for a week for displaying a battleground mentality. As usual, review is welcome and fellow admins may tweak the block. Salvio Let's talk about it! 00:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Lecen - I have been trying to ensure your fair treatment. This case is about YOUR conduct, which the admins have concluded is unacceptable. Your response above is basically just a reworked attempt of the "she hit me first" argument, which I have already said doesn't work here. Also using the language "defamed" is specifically identified in our NLT as a bad practice. While I am probably a bit softer than Salvio, I must support the block decision. Please indicate a willingness to redact your original statement, indicate to us that you understand that YOUR conduct is unacceptable, and then we shall move on. And I repeat, once that is done the issue with Sandy Georgia will be examined fairly and impartially. Manning (talk) 00:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- No mention of me here five days ago, or here three days ago, or here two days ago ... shall I continue? "Defaming" you sounds somewhat Wikilawyerish, especially when coming from someone who says he's a lawyer. Wikihounding and harassing? Lecen, I lived in those countries. I watchlist WP:WQA. Expecting an apology from me for editing the 'pedia when you suggested I might kill you, when you know from our editing together on Hugo Chavez that I do know my way around South America? (I started this post before seeing that Lecen was blocked, so will go ahead and post it, FWIW, but done.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Lecen appears to be accepting his block. I've advised him that if he abides by our request for redaction and apologizes for his conduct, then we will listen to his allegations about Sandy Georgia, and review the matter fairly and impartially. Conversely, if no redaction is forthcoming, then I am neither inclined to lift the block or hear his grievance. Until then, the matter should be considered as closed. Manning (talk) 01:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with what Manning has said elsewhere that the matter should be dropped for now, but I would like to comment on a side issue: I noticed the WMF staffer making the comments mentioned above, and I found them to be highly inappropriate. I was watchching their talk following an exchange at User talk:Beetstra#Update: new user warning test results available where I made two comments to strongly disagree with a line being pushed by two WMF staffers.Johnuniq (talk) 03:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- To be fair, my reading was that the staffer was just expressing sympathy with Lecen over the socking isssue they expressed, which certainly is bad-faith editing. I didn't read it as the staffer expressing an opinion on the merits or claiming to have investigated the issue. Nor did they appear to be aware of Lecen's history on-project, they were just trying to be nice. Franamax (talk) 04:39, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Reads like Lecen is getting wronged
It's not like I haven't had my ground-scraping nuts referred to by Sandy or Moni. (Or had an incredible set (even just in number) set of conspiracies alleged against me (I am in the employ of WMF, Wehwalt, Alarbus, Croaton HighSchool, and the USEP). Sometimes her rants don't even make sense (like I spoke out against USEP issues and it was her little clique that messed up the Barking Fish thing, not me.) Or the girls haven't giggled about how the Wiki nerds don't get laid. In any case, it is so lame to be trying to find out who was wrong (or more wrong) and then run to mommy with complaints. And the all holy "diffs".
Sandy who loves to defend Mallman or Ceoil has taken to using the run to ANI like it was going out of style. I don't think the problem is all the thugs. I think the problem is Sandy. There is just a huge clique going back years here. And Sandy is basically not a fair individual.
I don't think Lecen should apologize (it was not that harsh). Basic point of it was that Sandy is very focused and drives these clique battles on the site (and has done so for years, we have all seen it). The whole idea that Lecen should have to crawl and then prepare some counter charges is just Wiki lawyers stuff. You all should adjuticate on what you see instead of expecting people to spend time on these legalistic defenses and then assuming if they don't, that they must be in the wrong. Or...that they are just not playing the Wiki drama game the way you expect.
Oh...and just on a note of "justice". Even IF LECEN IS WRONG, his apology is irrelevant. If Sandy was wrong too...then she was wrong too at that time. That's just trying to use some lever to drive behavior...to threaten not to look at both sides unless he says he was sorry first.
Lecen: do what you think is right. If you think you were wrong, apologize. If not, don't. In any case, don't decide off of "if I don't apologize, the moderators won't look at both sides of the flame war."
TCO (talk) 04:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- TCO - I understand your argument. However the complaint against Lecen was raised first, and ignoring all other factors, Lecen was in the wrong and needs to redact. The reason I am being so rigid on this point is twofold. (1) If it were acceptable to demand resolution of a separate issue before accepting our judgment on the first issue, then everybody would do this and we would be enmeshed in permanent chaos. (2) By resolving this first issue we can look at the second issue cleanly. If during a second investigation anyone attempts to raise this first issue, we can dismiss it on the grounds it has already been dealt with (and probably admonish the responsible party for doing so). I hope that makes sense. Manning (talk) 04:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Damn.That is actually a fucking excellent argument. Where did you come from?
Never seen you, man! Yeah, disaggregation totally makes sense (and we like...uh...totally never do it). Still don't think his remark was that rough, but it was definitely directed at the person. Give him the night to think it over. And some cardio (lifting weights angry gets you hurt, cardio is the way to go when angry.)TCO (talk) 05:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Damn.That is actually a fucking excellent argument. Where did you come from?
- Yes Lecen was wronged, Carcharoth could have blocked immediately. That would have avoided this venue, with the free shovels and chants of "dig dig dig". There is no provision here that you can dramatically escalate a dispute, then claim that all issues must be treated at once with prizes for all. We don't work that way, editors are expected to present their problems calmly and rationally. I'm pretty sure SG has flown to fewer than 10 countries to kill WP editors, but if you notice a contrary trend, please do report it here. Franamax (talk) 04:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but often when new issues are raised, they're addressed. While a block might be appropriate for Lecen, SandyGeorgia's behaviour probably needs a check as well. I'd suggest Lecen use the block time to put together any other evidence they might have with a more coherent timeline. Though honestly, I can't count the times I've heard established editors try and excuse another editor's behaviour because they were "provoked". It is pretty much the go to defense for certain groups of editors on certain topics. Perhaps that only works if you have a large enough group of friends.--Crossmr (talk) 08:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The excuse "They hit me first" is not valid in a playground, in a court of law, or on Wikipedia. I'm sure someone has written an essay on this point somewhere. Manning (talk) 09:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I never said it was an excuse in this case or that Lecen shouldn't be blocked because of it. I pointed out though, that it is frequently used by some people as an excuse on wikipedia and I've often seen it used successfully. I hope in the future the people who are here hanging Lecen out to dry will remember that. And for the record, he hit me first, or was about to hit me, is valid in a court of law. This is not the case here, and while Lecen may have been dealt with, there may be a larger issue here that needs addressed in the form of SandyGeorgia.--Crossmr (talk) 00:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I realsise my name is mud[147] here, but to give context, TCO is a just a gear-head who thinks he's a lot more clever than he actually is, and his excitable bursts do not impresse thoes that bother to listen. Carchold is an oppurtunist with an axe to grind against Sandy, for whatever long forgotten reason. Both are gaming, and thinking in a longer view; x 10000. Fact of the matter is Lecen is an extreamly difficult person, hes unwilling to accept help or advice, and is prob (Personal attack removed). The obvious under a cloud Allarbus, TCO and Ch sees this, and are using an exception to beat a political horse. For shame; if ye guys really gave a fuck ye'd be helping him and guiding h as to how to interact, rather than making capital. Ive seen this before with Ottova, and it makes me want to vomit. A talented writer who only needs guidance and hes tossed about and used up in gaming and in-fighting. Jesus christ. Shame. Ceoil (talk) 12:08, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ceoil, I think you could have made your point adequately without insulting everyone on the autistic spectrum, which had to be redacted by someone else here. A reference to someone else's mental health is way out of line. Surely you can comment on the substance without your perception of the mental framework of another editor, and without disparaging several tens of million people.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The excuse "They hit me first" is not valid in a playground, in a court of law, or on Wikipedia. I'm sure someone has written an essay on this point somewhere. Manning (talk) 09:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Wehwalt, you misunderstand me completly, to the extent that I can even be bothered to explain why. If you are so egar look past my point and to rush towards an o poor me on an others behalf, I dont even know what to say to you. Except this; you are the one exploiting here, and you know it. My position is to help, yours is towards capital. Ceoil (talk) 16:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I suppose I misunderstand this as well. That is an appalling thing to say about your fellow editors, especially by a editor already blocked for incivility. However, it is for us to take insults; failure to do so is disruptive and of course, the terrible incivility is excusable if you know the whole history. Not.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- SandyGeorgia's behavior and actions should not go unnoticed. She needs to be held accountable. Lecen is not wrong in the way he feels. People need to read his post and links. I've looked at the whole situation and it's clear that Sandy is watching his edits. She's not just showing up out the blue. She has him on her watchlist and appears to be stalking him. I'm not sure why, but it's obvious she has it in for Lecen. She's harassing him from what I can tell. And she hasn't exactly been civil either in regards to Lecen. I do not believe he owes her an apology. Sandy owes him one. Sandy also needs to remember WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Her actions and behavior are unacceptable. Completely wrong and so unacceptable. I should also note that Sandy's commments in this thread about User:Diannaa (an admin) was done in very poor taste. Cadencool 01:22, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I have not had time to follow up on all this, but certainly Lecen should retract, since SG claims to be offended (and others on her behalf). To retract something said in jest (as he claims, and as seems self evident from the whole tone of the paragraph) is not onerous request. I recently said a user had accused me of risking "destruction of most of the known universe" - this was obviously hyperbole, but if that people were offended on that user's behalf, and took it seriously, I would bow to their lack of perception and retract the claim explicitly. Having dealt with that (or not) the substantive matters should be looked into. Rich Farmbrough, 17:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
- I have not had time to follow up on all this, but certainly Lecen should retract, since SG claims to be offended (and others on her behalf). To retract something said in jest (as he claims, and as seems self evident from the whole tone of the paragraph) is not onerous request. I recently said a user had accused me of risking "destruction of most of the known universe" - this was obviously hyperbole, but if that people were offended on that user's behalf, and took it seriously, I would bow to their lack of perception and retract the claim explicitly. Having dealt with that (or not) the substantive matters should be looked into. Rich Farmbrough, 17:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
Edit warring on South Vietnam and North Vietnam
Could someone take a look at the recent edit warring on articles North Vietnam and South Vietnam? This involves IPs 24.52.193.213 and 24.52.193.213, and myself. My talk page has been caught up in this dispute, as you can see here. Perhaps these pages can be semi-protected or protected until this issue dies down. Kauffner (talk) 00:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm asking now: why do you mean that North VIetnam was "client state" while South VIetnam was not? I don't really understand what you mean. 188.113.91.110 (talk) 00:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- This also involves user Mr.A as well. I ask if Wikipedia can please fully protect the 2 articles permanently, as there has been content issues for a few years already, so that way both new and more older editors, both registered & non-registered users cannot change the articles, which is the scenario here which involved non-registered users and logged-in ones. Thank you for your concern — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.52.193.213 (talk) 09:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Is administrative action required here, or can this thread be closed?--Mollskman (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Uh.. rather a mess up... NV has been protected and the "Client state" comment removed subsequently (with an amusing "WP:wrong version") SV is not protected and the edit warring has continued so that "Client state" is in there. To be even handed either someone should remove the client state from SV and someone else should protect it, or Molksman should be reverted, (preferably by self reverted) and SV should be protected. Rich Farmbrough, 18:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
- Uh.. rather a mess up... NV has been protected and the "Client state" comment removed subsequently (with an amusing "WP:wrong version") SV is not protected and the edit warring has continued so that "Client state" is in there. To be even handed either someone should remove the client state from SV and someone else should protect it, or Molksman should be reverted, (preferably by self reverted) and SV should be protected. Rich Farmbrough, 18:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
- Is administrative action required here, or can this thread be closed?--Mollskman (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Competance issue
There appears to be a WP:COMPETENCE issue with User:Ananthutom. Although he has some useful edits, he has a penchant for blanking content without explanation, the first warning for which he received on November 11th, and has since received four more warnings for. I gave him a final warning for this behavior yesterday for this which he attempted to deny was him on my talk page. He also as of today has moved his user page and talk page to User:Ananthu Tom, without the normal name change process, thus complicating article history (the original history of his talk page is located at [148] now). Although not forbidden, he also has a penchant for removing the warnings, which leads me to believe that he has read and understood them - despite denying that he does. Could someone take a look at this? Thanks. Falcon8765 (TALK) 18:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I have untangled the moves and restored the history of his talk page, and told him how to apply at CHU if he wants to change username. JohnCD (talk) 19:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Upon further investigation it also appears that there is a vague overlap between User talk:Bothiman's edits and that of the subject of this section. Falcon8765 (TALK) 19:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
See, I am so sorry for my previous edits. I will try my level best to do my edits carefully. I renamed my username because I thought that it was better. I don't know how to change my user name. Please say to me how to do it. I blank out my content because I don't like anything to be in my talk page. You may not believe all these things, but I am saying this most sincerely. Please don't criticize me.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ananthutom (talk • contribs)
- The problem isn't that you attempted to change your username incorrectly, and you are allowed to blank anything you want on your own talk page. However, your blanking of sourced content on article's and then trying to deny that you just had, and multiple warnings for the same thing warrants scrutiny here. An administrator left you instructions on your talk page on how to correctly go about changing your username after fixing the mess created by your last attempt, and you have apparently done the same attempted thing again. Falcon8765 (TALK) 14:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Edinburgh Wanderer
Edinburgh_Wanderer (talk · contribs) has been engaging in some disruptive and bizarre behaviour over the last couple of days. He has shown WP:OWN and WP:COI issues over the inclusion of Scotland's second level league in the football project's list of "fully professional" leagues. EW flooded a recent discussion over the league's suitability for the list with repetitive and false spam. here . He has been spoken to previously by admins over this habit. [149] EW then circumvented dispute resolution and raised an ANI, trying to have people who disagreed with him blocked. Accusations of personal attacks were made with no evidence. When prompted, diffs like [150] were supplied.
Despite EW's repeated breaches of WP:AOHA, I accepted a warning at the ANI for comments I had been provoked into making. However it was not long before 3rd parties at the ANI were making similar comments about EW's tiresomeness and apparent lack of maturity.[151] [152] Since the ANI failed EW began hostile wikihounding of other editors who disagreed with his viewpoint. Murry1975 (talk · contribs) was dragged to a spurious SPI and subjected to more unfounded and hysterical accusations. Although EW now claims to have "retired" for three months, I feel a temporary block to run consecutive to the retirement may be in order. At the very least a topic ban for EW may allow users at the Football project to discuss the issues in good faith without further disruption. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 18:57, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- PorridgeGobbler is shit-stirring, and knows he's shit stirring, and has been warned by me and Atama a day or so ago. If I wasn't leaving the house this second, I would block him myself, but instead I'll leave it to others to review. The fact that EW is not reacting gracefully to pressure is no reason to tolerate intentional poking. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, PorridgeGobbler has all the appearance of a disruptive POV troll. Support block. Youreallycan 20:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Its just as well i always watch ANI as its clear he wasn't going to notify me. I think this latest response by him about me and other editors says it all.[153].EdinburghWanderer 20:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- You were (briefly) "retired" after not getting your way and had instructed no messages to be left at your talk page. See also legal threat by DUCKISJAMMMY (talk·contribs) [154]. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 20:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- And you haven't notified him either.EdinburghWanderer 20:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Your latest allegation is incredibly unfounded. That's just a standard template, that's not a legal threat in any way. Please, stop grasping at straws to get your opponents blocked or you might discover it boomeranged on you... Salvio Let's talk about it! 20:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- And you haven't notified him either.EdinburghWanderer 20:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- You were (briefly) "retired" after not getting your way and had instructed no messages to be left at your talk page. See also legal threat by DUCKISJAMMMY (talk·contribs) [154]. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 20:49, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Its just as well i always watch ANI as its clear he wasn't going to notify me. I think this latest response by him about me and other editors says it all.[153].EdinburghWanderer 20:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- From WP:NLT: "For example, if you repeatedly assert that another editor's comments are "defamatory" or "libelous", that editor might interpret this as a threat to sue for defamation, even if this is not intended. To avoid this frequent misunderstanding, use less charged wording (such as “That statement about me is not true and I hope it will be corrected for the following reasons...”) to avoid the perception that you are threatening legal action for defamation." It doesn't say who or what I am supposed to have defamed. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 21:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- All you have to do is read the previous discussion above to see that there were clear personal attacks not just this time but when he was originally blocked.. Given that he is accusing another editor of something its only correct they are notified which i will do now. Regarding the diff that i was spoken to by an admin i was not warned or anything infact I'm part of a group of editors who are now trailing it and it was about an issue which involved technical aspects of wiki code and has nothing to with this. I re affirm my point above that this is clearly someone who has a clear knowledge of our policies and is not a new user. Im not going to comment here again as this is clearly a boomerang attempt.Edinburgh Wanderer 21:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- From WP:NLT: "For example, if you repeatedly assert that another editor's comments are "defamatory" or "libelous", that editor might interpret this as a threat to sue for defamation, even if this is not intended. To avoid this frequent misunderstanding, use less charged wording (such as “That statement about me is not true and I hope it will be corrected for the following reasons...”) to avoid the perception that you are threatening legal action for defamation." It doesn't say who or what I am supposed to have defamed. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 21:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- We have a bigger problem now hence why I'm posting another comment. He has been constantly advised that first division footballers are considered notable and there currently no consensus to change that look at discussion at WP:Footy. Back in August he attempted to get articles deleted by prod using various ips and he is now doing it again see here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David McGurn he just won't listen to anyone. Even if we decided future seasons were non notable a player who played in any season prior is notable as notability is permanent. This is clear attempt at disruption EdinburghWanderer 21:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- EW, last night you made a spectacle of "retiring" while making worrying declarations about your own mental health.[155] I think that a spell away from WP may benefit you and certainly benefit the project. I was disappointed that my geniune efforts at going through conflict resolution were all rebuffed. You opened an ANI (then a SPI) to throw dirt at me and none of it stuck because you didn't have any evidence. I think the issues I've raised above are more serious and should result in you being formally warned at the very least. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 21:42, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Please note that I wasn't informed of this discussion despite the fact a user is making false rumours I made a legal threat. I find it highly hypercritically that PorridgeGobbler didn't notify me when he is the first to scream from the rooftops when he isn't informed when he actually was. As Salvio stated I didn't make any legal, just a standardised template. As for Porridge Gobblers claims that he is unaware the reasons why such a warning was given is also a lie, With the warning I added an additional message quoting what he had said so it's quite obvious the reason for the warning. His associated IP (which he has admiited is his) was given a warning by myself for a personal attack specifically directed earlier & now his user account was warning for defamation not specifically directed as it was placed on another users page who it wasn't directed toward.I think it's about time Admins take PorridgeGooblers disruptive action seriously & I suggest this case should most definitely boomerang, Since returning from an indefinite ban, he has continued to use different IP's to enable his behaviour, making nationalistic attacks, personal attacks, indirect acttacks, extremely sarcastic comments on talk pages, Project pages & on Wikipedia:Administrators associated pages & don't forget the constant antagonism. He's know taken out this frivolous case against Edinburgh. He seems to some have avoided being re-banned due occasionally appearing reasonable & showing a knowledge of the policies but it's a time for action to be taken. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 21:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Genuine I don't think so, he's acting against consensus adding inapproatte deltion tags, one of the reasons he was banned the last time, & his above comment yet another attempt at goading & shit stiring. His indefinite block needs to reapplied quickly he has not reformed. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 21:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Please note that I wasn't informed of this discussion despite the fact a user is making false rumours I made a legal threat. I find it highly hypercritically that PorridgeGobbler didn't notify me when he is the first to scream from the rooftops when he isn't informed when he actually was. As Salvio stated I didn't make any legal, just a standardised template. As for Porridge Gobblers claims that he is unaware the reasons why such a warning was given is also a lie, With the warning I added an additional message quoting what he had said so it's quite obvious the reason for the warning. His associated IP (which he has admiited is his) was given a warning by myself for a personal attack specifically directed earlier & now his user account was warning for defamation not specifically directed as it was placed on another users page who it wasn't directed toward.I think it's about time Admins take PorridgeGooblers disruptive action seriously & I suggest this case should most definitely boomerang, Since returning from an indefinite ban, he has continued to use different IP's to enable his behaviour, making nationalistic attacks, personal attacks, indirect acttacks, extremely sarcastic comments on talk pages, Project pages & on Wikipedia:Administrators associated pages & don't forget the constant antagonism. He's know taken out this frivolous case against Edinburgh. He seems to some have avoided being re-banned due occasionally appearing reasonable & showing a knowledge of the policies but it's a time for action to be taken. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 21:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- EW, last night you made a spectacle of "retiring" while making worrying declarations about your own mental health.[155] I think that a spell away from WP may benefit you and certainly benefit the project. I was disappointed that my geniune efforts at going through conflict resolution were all rebuffed. You opened an ANI (then a SPI) to throw dirt at me and none of it stuck because you didn't have any evidence. I think the issues I've raised above are more serious and should result in you being formally warned at the very least. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 21:42, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Multiple admins have already looked into these malicious allegations and concluded there was absolutely nothing there.[156][157] Please do not harass me by repeating them. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 22:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- This is getting out of hand now your being harassed you started this as a boomerang then displayed further evidence of what you were blocked for before. You were warned at the Above Ani which you clearly accepted but continue attacks[158] such as this one if already linked to above, trolling here again saying we have a conflict of interest[159] voting delete because a player wears pink boots[160] accusing other editors who have done nothing wrong starting AFD's when you know that they are not founded is clearly showing your previous behaviour. Given you are using admins comments out of context you really should be notifying them as well. This is disruption. Its up to the admins to decide what to do but this needs sorted promptly one way or another quickly.Edinburgh Wanderer 22:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Multiple admins have already looked into these malicious allegations and concluded there was absolutely nothing there.[156][157] Please do not harass me by repeating them. PorridgeGobbler (talk) 22:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Does anyone think this article he has just created is appropriate Roddie Clark it would meet WP:Footy but its clearly a joke also he then adds it to Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Scotland task force/New articles which he knows me and duck are very likely to see he is clearly trying to wind us up. This SPI also still needs admin close Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/PorridgeGobbler one way or another this isn't a new user this is someone who has prior wiki knowledge he knows loads of policies always misquoted. The miss use of Ips and possible other accounts out there mean this does need checked some of the Ips were linked at the time of Porridge original block and one he has used in last few days although he is clearly hopping a check was required.EdinburghWanderer 23:27, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- It's really is getting ridiculous he has started creating pages, like this & then adding them to the Scottish Taskforce new article section & then Afd the article he just created just five minutes later because he knew it wasn't notable & created it as a joke. He is directly trying to provoke Edinburgh who started the taskforce. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 23:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- This is getting ridiculous he has just AFD the article he created Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roddie Clark. Something needs done promptly.EdinburghWanderer 23:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- It's really is getting ridiculous he has started creating pages, like this & then adding them to the Scottish Taskforce new article section & then Afd the article he just created just five minutes later because he knew it wasn't notable & created it as a joke. He is directly trying to provoke Edinburgh who started the taskforce. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 23:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ok i need some advice then. He is likely to go back to ip editing which is why i created the SPI or return to this after 36 hours i strongly suspect he's been an editor before. What do i do when he returns i was not believed at the previous Ani and nobody has touched the SPI i just need formal advice on what to do to deal with the situation then.EdinburghWanderer 23:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, give the sockpuppet investigation a little time. I'm not sure how long it usually takes, but it's only been a day and there are no comments from checkusers in the "Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments" section. In the meantime, if you have evidence of sockuppetry, post it here and preferably notify me on my talk page (though I'll try to check back here). Similarly, if he continues disrupting after the block, open an ANI and contact me if you wish. Superm401 - Talk 23:59, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Good block; if trolling resumes after block expiration it can be upped to indef fairly rapidly. But can I make one more plea to Edinburgh Wanderer and DUCKISJAMMMY to dial back the full throttle reaction several notches? These things are 10 times easier for people to look into and deal with when the signal isn't overwhelmed by so much noise. Just because someone who upsets you says something doesn't mean you have to answer back. Seems to me this section can be marked resolved, so I'm doing so. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm more than happy for now and fully understand what to do if this happens again. I feel I was pretty calm this time but I needed to show all the things that was happening again this time was the same as the last time. EdinburghWanderer 10:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I just want to note that I was involved in the old discussion regarding IPs in use by PorridgeGobbler (and the IP admitted that they were that editor). Given the behavior above, and the history of that account, I wouldn't object to an indefinite block. I'm not going to extend the existing block to indefinite, but further disruption from this account (or IPs from the account) and I will extend an existing block to indefinite, or re-block the account indefinitely. -- Atama頭 19:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm more than happy for now and fully understand what to do if this happens again. I feel I was pretty calm this time but I needed to show all the things that was happening again this time was the same as the last time. EdinburghWanderer 10:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
User:TheREALCableGuy readding fair use images to userspace
I reverted a userspace edit by TheREALCableGuy which added non-free images and he (or she) undid my edit. The editor claims they are under fair use, however they're violations of WP:NFCC#9 as they are being used out of article space. Cutecutecuteface2000 (Cutecuteface needs attention) 01:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- It's been about 8 hours since the last revert; hopefully the note on his talk page & in the edit summaries should be enough to stop this. If he does start this again, please re-file a note here! Thanks. Skier Dude (talk) 08:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
He did the edit again. Cutecutecuteface2000 (Cutecuteface needs attention) 20:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
He now filed a personal attack against me. Cutecutecuteface2000 (Cutecuteface needs attention) 20:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
You should also remove this edit summary. Cutecutecuteface2000 (Cutecuteface needs attention) 20:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
User:Pacynka Sobkowskiego
Hi. I report here violations by User:Pacynka Sobkowskiego. "Pacynka Sobkowskiego" means "Sobkowski's sockpuppet" (in Polish). Actually, it is not my sockpuppet but presumably, a blocked user from Polsh Wiki (where I am an admin). Thus, "Pacynka Sobkowskiego" impersonates me and violates Wikipedia:Username policy, I guess. Moreover, tonight he or she has marked my user and user talk pages with the {{sockpuppetProven}} template, which I consider as a malicious vandalism. I ask for appropriate action. Michał Sobkowski (talk) 10:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Admin status on Polish WP confirmed (User rights}. The username does indeed translate to "puppet" as our Polish colleague says. Marking the user page as a sockpuppet seems pretty egregious to me. I'll send him on his way. Manning (talk) 10:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for speedy action! Michał Sobkowski (talk) 12:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
IP editor evading block
This IP 86.184.209.127 user is currently blocked for one week for disruptive editing.Magog the Ogres block. Would someone please block his new IP. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- that is not me and I have not been blocked on the other hand you have been blocked and warned over edit warring and pov pushing as your block log clearly shows 86.184.209.127 (talk) 15:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Same ISP, same country, same reverts as the blocked editor. WP:DUCK applies. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Done blocked 1 week to match prior block. --Jayron32 19:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Edit warring by IP-hopping anon
Over the last couple of days has there has been a lot of edit warring at Saint Thomas Christians by clearly related IP accounts. So far accounts have included 117.216.79.153 (talk · contribs)([161]); 117.196.129.126 (talk · contribs) ([162]); 117.196.149.0 (talk · contribs) ([163]; 117.196.132.91 (talk · contribs) ([164]); 117.196.137.218 (talk · contribs) ([165]); 117.217.131.29 (talk · contribs) ([166]); 117.196.137.104 (talk · contribs) ([167]); 117.216.74.69 (talk · contribs) ([168]). I warned one of the accounts about edit warring and removing sourced content here and here and tried to explain the situation on the talk page here, to no avail; they never make more than one revert from the same IP before switching.--Cúchullain t/c 16:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Fully protected for two days -this needs to be sorted on the talk page instead of reverting back and forth. TNXMan 16:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
206.15.252.30
The IP editor 206.15.252.30 (talk · contribs) has been adding the {{GA nominee}} template to articles that cleary don't meet theWP:GA? criteria (Pink Friday: Roman Reloaded, Down in It or Invaders Must Die). I, and others, assmued good faith on this user, but after I see his edit at Talk:Arab Spring I noticed that his edits are the same edits that 71.142.222.218 (talk · contribs) [169] and There Is a Fifth Dimension (talk · contribs) [170], this last is blocked from editing as he is User:Guitarherochristopher, a banned editor. This IP needs to be stopped. Tbhotch.™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 17:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Post by banned (and now blocked) IP sock removed. Reaper Eternal (talk) 18:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Persistent WP:ERA violater
209.184.14.1 (talk · contribs) Persistent WP:ERA violations, has been warned here but continues to randomly change date styles against policy. Heiro 20:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Chiang Kai-shek rollback
There was a significant amount of IP vandalism on Chiang Kai-shek earlier today (January 30). I need an admin to roll back the page to the last legitimate edit, by Shrigley.Ferox Seneca (talk) 21:15, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Done. 28bytes (talk) 21:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC) - Thanks!Ferox Seneca (talk) 21:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Fæ
What's up with DC insisting on retaining a two year old "endorsement" on an RFC, when that endorsement was posted by the since effectively-banned user Merridew. I don't see how a banned user's comments from 2 years ago have anything to do with a current RFC. But I might just be dense. I've asked DC to come here and explain this oddity. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:37, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- And DC is also edit-warring to keep Merridew's comment in there. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- As explained in the RFC/U itself, I reopened the request following a WP:ANdiscussion about a similar situation. The original RFC/U was delisted because User:Ash claimed to have left WIkipedia. It was never closed, simply dormant. I would have preferred to simply relist it, but given the amount of time that has passed and the new user name, I felt that this was the best way forward. I was asked by an admin to include the certifications from the previous RFC/U. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 00:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- I did ask him to include it because it seemed odd that it was just a link to an old RFC. I also noted that I thought something was fishy and violated process that one of the certifiers being unavailable to confirm if they thought it should be re-opened because they were banned. I don't see why if there is a problem with this user's behavior warranting an RFC, DC cannot produce a second, active, unbanned user to certify with him. MBisanztalk 00:19, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Given the reception I have received so far, I would not ask anyone to add their name to the RFC/U (in fact, I would discourage it unless they wish to be similarly maligned). Delicious carbuncle (talk) 00:25, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- I did ask him to include it because it seemed odd that it was just a link to an old RFC. I also noted that I thought something was fishy and violated process that one of the certifiers being unavailable to confirm if they thought it should be re-opened because they were banned. I don't see why if there is a problem with this user's behavior warranting an RFC, DC cannot produce a second, active, unbanned user to certify with him. MBisanztalk 00:19, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- No opinion on much else in this thread, but since repeating something that's untrue often enough leads to people assuming it's true, a point of order: Merridew isn't banned, effectively or sotherwise. There's one restriction on his editing that he evidently is unwilling to agree to, but if he agreed to it, he could start editing tomorrow without breaking any rules. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- My apologies. He is in a situation such that he cannot confirm if he thinks the RFC should be re-opened, nor can he engaged in collaborative dispute resolution with the subject of the RFC, no? MBisanz talk 00:23, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- That's correct; like I said, my only interest is trying to shut down the "banned" meme. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- He's been blocked here since June, he's globally "locked", he's been charged with sockpuppetry, and his most recent edits were rev-del'd. That's "effectively banned", in my book. However, the thing that irked me a bit was DC's attempt to hide the point that Merridew has nothing to do with the current RFC. Assuming DC doesn't edit-war against the admin Manning's posting in that RFC, that should keep things clear to anyone looking at it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:33, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- I originally had a link to the certification section of the earlier RFC/U. I was asked to cut-and-paste the old certifications in the newer version. Merridew has nothing to do with reopening the RFC/U, but they did certify it originally. In what possible way am I attempting to hide anything? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 01:05, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- I made the point that he's not a valid user anymore, and you deleted it and tried to bury it on the talk page. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- But he is a valid user; he's not community banned or anything like that, as Floquenbeam rightly points out. Reyk YO! 01:18, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- "Users should not edit other people's summaries or views, except to endorse them. All signed comments other than your own view or an endorsement should be directed to this page's discussion page." Delicious carbuncle (talk) 01:19, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Indef'd users don't get to edit. I didn't edit anyone else's comment. As noted below, others have rendered the Merridew issue moot. So you're going to delete it now, right? :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:25, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Two current users, in addition to DC, have now certified the RFC so the Merridew issue is now moot. Will Beback talk 01:21, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- What Will said. Manning (talk) 01:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah...just because an editor is banned doesn't mean everything they did is wrong or wiped away (Can't remember what guideline says that, but there is one that says that) Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 01:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Once an editor is banned, any and all edits he makes after that are subject to removal, and edits made prior to banning are subject to scrutiny, depending on what the ban was about (copyright violations, for example). Merridew is not "banned", but he's not allowed to edit either - nor is it appropriate for his words to be proxied. However, Merridew's comments are now struck from the RFC, so dat's dat. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:48, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah...just because an editor is banned doesn't mean everything they did is wrong or wiped away (Can't remember what guideline says that, but there is one that says that) Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 01:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- What Will said. Manning (talk) 01:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Page deletion
I had just commented at this RfC/U – I think I was about the 30th person to have done so – to find that it has just been deleted. Isn't that a bit irregular? --JN466 07:46, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- As I discussed on the talk page previously, no one added evidence that Ash and Fae are the same person. I indicated I would delete it if no evidence was provided in a timely manner. I was told to ask the ArbCom, which I did. In their responses they also did not provide any indication that the two users are the same person. Since the entire RFC/U was predicated on them being the same person, it was an invalid RFC/U. Editors are welcome to start an RFC/U on Fae alone, and they can also request an admin recall. However no one should allege that Ash and Fae are the same person without providing proper proof. Will Beback talk 08:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sheesh. I urge all users to avoid dealing with the ArbCom if they can. They can't be relied on to give honest answers to simple questions. Will Beback talk 08:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
As far as I'm concerned, this deletion was a gross misuse of the admin bit, and should be considered grounds for at least temporary desysoping. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 08:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Will, suggestion. Undel the page yourself. I don't think the community might see this positively. A timely undeletion would save us this discussion thread. Kind regards. WifioneMessage 08:45, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- John Vandenberg already did. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 08:47, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Improperly certified RFC/Us are routinely deleted. Based on the best available evidence, and numerous requests for more evidence, I understood that the RFC/U was improperly formed and certified. A number of exchanges with the ArbCom led me to believe that there was no identified connection between Ash and Fae. I gave plenty of warning that I'd delete it if no evidence of the connection was added. Only after the ArbCom discussions, and after I'd deleted it, did user: John Vandenberg decide to give his still incomplete input. I sincerely apologize for relying on the ArbCom to give useful information and I promise never to do so again. Will Beback talk 08:48, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- The issue is Wikipedia policies (RFC/U and cleanstart) aren't coherent, so (as usual) discussion and consensus are necessary to resolve the situation. While I disagree with the deletion, I don't doubt WB's good faith; calls for desysoping are over the top. Likewise I'd encourage editors to be nice to ArbCom -- it's a crappy job but someone has to do it. Nobody Ent 11:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- The deletion was done in quite bad faith, as Will was threatening deletion using by his personal criteria regarding Fae's identity rather than any question of the certification. A desysop is certainly on the table, but perhaps it might be best to deescalate all-around and just let the RfC mosey along. Tarc (talk) 13:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- The issue is Wikipedia policies (RFC/U and cleanstart) aren't coherent, so (as usual) discussion and consensus are necessary to resolve the situation. While I disagree with the deletion, I don't doubt WB's good faith; calls for desysoping are over the top. Likewise I'd encourage editors to be nice to ArbCom -- it's a crappy job but someone has to do it. Nobody Ent 11:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
I had hoped to avoid having to do it on-wiki for various reasons, but I have made a connection between the two accounts at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Fæ#Connecting User:Ash to User:Fae by popular request. I have attempted to find a balance between limiting the amount of personal information disclosed and making a connection that reasonable people could agree was conclusive. Given that the connection between the two accounts was fairly well-known when I re-opened the RFC/U, I had hoped that an ArbCom member would appear to make a suitably vague statement that would put questions about identity to rest. If any admin genuinely had concerns that the two accounts were not connected, I would like to think that the RFC/U would have been deleted immediately instead of allowing it to remain until an arbitrary deadline had expired. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 22:10, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you for providing that, which should have been part of the RFC/U from the beginning. We can't just make allegations of serious wrongdoing without providing proof or relying on unverifiable claims like "common knowledge". I'm not sure I understand your reluctance to post evidence of something that you were comfortable asserting. However now that this is cleared up you can continue resolving the dispute over sourcing BLPs. Will Beback talk 22:41, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
I endorse the deletion of this page as both being well within community norms and WB having stated several times he was going to do it. - Aaron Brenneman (talk) 23:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- While I don't approve of the deletion, I can say, thank goodness it's gone, now it has, let us now look forward not back. Rich Farmbrough, 01:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
ethen12
Interesting user here, ethen12 (talk · contribs). I'm tempted to call a block for WP:COMPETENCE, based on this evidence:
- Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/kamehameha:the king who changed everything, a completely nonsense article about something that already exists
- User:Ethen12/How to install windows 7 and User:Ethen12/computers and what they are, sandboxes on either things that already have articles or should not have articles
- Not one, but two attempts to create a bot despite obvious lack of know-how, using one of the aforementioned sandboxes as "source code"
- Vandalism which was self-reverted
- Another bad-faith edit
- Asking another user to nominate him for admin
The user's been here for a month, but out of 141 edits, only three are to article space: two tangential edits to Kamehameha I, and a clever vandalism on Mother.
I'm betting that the user here is very young, as evidenced by their highly impulsive nature and the borderline MySpace-y feel they're going for by awarding themself barnstars and brownies. If you've been here for over 100 edits, and still haven't done anything of note in article space, you just may not be cut out for the big leagues yet. I say block, as the signal to noise ratio is just too much here. They seem not to be here to build an encyclopedia, but rather to socialize. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I realize that this probably won't count for much at all, but after I left him a message about his adding himself to the list of adopters, he immediately removed the "adopting" userbox from his page and asked another editor to adopt him. Yes, I may be reading too much into that, but it tells me that he might just be okay at taking directions, and actually learning the rules of this place. As to his rather large myspace-y edit count...well...who here didn't add userboxes for their first 50 edits? Ok, maybe/probably everyone except me. Regardless, we couldn't give him just a little longer of a chance? Just my $.02...will let others more suited decide on the block. NoleloverTalk·Contribs 03:51, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/kamehameha:the king who changed everything seems like a good faith attempt to help build an encyclopedia, though misguided. But obviously the pattern of editing is not exactly encouraging, and I'm on the fence here, on the one hand there is some competence issues, on the other hand these issues are not too serious (yet) and the edits are not malicious. I would personally be more comfortable with some form of mentorship by a more experienced user, but then I would also agree with the idea that the editor may not be cut out for the big leagues yet and that mentorship/adoption can't make up for an apparent lack of maturity... : CharlieEchoTango (contact) 03:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- They also asked for their talk page to be moveprotected and somehow it passed. And asked for rollback. And and and. Seems all they want is to gather trinkets, which is not what we're here for. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 04:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/kamehameha:the king who changed everything seems like a good faith attempt to help build an encyclopedia, though misguided. But obviously the pattern of editing is not exactly encouraging, and I'm on the fence here, on the one hand there is some competence issues, on the other hand these issues are not too serious (yet) and the edits are not malicious. I would personally be more comfortable with some form of mentorship by a more experienced user, but then I would also agree with the idea that the editor may not be cut out for the big leagues yet and that mentorship/adoption can't make up for an apparent lack of maturity... : CharlieEchoTango (contact) 03:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Greetings. I am pretty sure I'm the "other editor" mentioned by Nolelover above. I first encountered this user when they posted a {{helpme}} tag on their page asking about that Kamehameha article. I've continued to offer assistance whenever they've asked, and I possibly would have already accepted his request but I've been on the road much of the weekend. Anyway, I log back in and see this ANI issue pop up, and had no idea he had even attempted to deploy a bot; it seems to me it's an issue of seeing that other users have bots and he believes he can have one too, if I were to guess (but that's purely my first impression). The request for rollback and other such requests mentioned by Ten Pound Hammer seem to confirm this. I would not be opposed to adopting the user, and think there is something to work with there, and I certainly don't believe any malice is intended by his edits. But I do agree they're a bit on the young side and would need to have relatively strict limits in place regarding editing. I'll follow this thread and am open to discussion/suggestions regarding this. --McDoobAU93 04:14, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Actually no. He also asked WLU (who I stalk and who I think I now need to notify?). Nolelover Talk·Contribs 04:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- If someone can take up the mantle to adopt this user and put some restrictions on them, that'd help. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 04:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, for what it's worth, my adoption program has been quite effective in teaching new users the ropes in the past. It won't teach someone how to be mature, but I suppose it can explain we are a serious encyclopedia, not a social website. I've a relatively light workload at present, but I want to see what others think first. Steven Zhang Join the DR army! 05:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- If someone can take up the mantle to adopt this user and put some restrictions on them, that'd help. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 04:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I doubt he'll be sticking around for very long anyway, but he should probably be linked to WP:YOUNG. -- Ϫ 07:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Also.. I know it's proper and all.. but do we really need to inform him of this (discussion) on his talk page? -- Ϫ 07:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Either a very young editor or a more than usually subtle troll, only time will tell. I'm willing to give him/her some rope (and explain what s/he does right or wrong) but also bring in an admin if things get too ridiculous. WLU(t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 13:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- So what kind of action should we take? They haven't edited since this ANI post, but I'd ask you guys to help keep watch on him. If they do get back to editing, maybe they should be restricted in some way — stick to mainspace, don't edit their talk page unless responding to someone else, don't edit their userspace extensively, no {{helpme}} spam, that kind of thing. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I can't guarantee I'll track his contributions, but if anyone notices anything and drops me a line, I'm perfectly happy to mentor him/her or explain why it's a bad idea. I don't think there's sufficient evidence to permablock, but for some reason despite being an absurd stickler for the rules, I always seem to give people way, way, waaaaayyyy too much rope. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 23:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I likewise am able to keep an eye on them if required. Steven Zhang Join the DR army! 23:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Same as above. He'll remain on my watchlist, and I'll try to keep tabs on him. Nolelover Talk·Contribs 14:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- So what kind of action should we take? They haven't edited since this ANI post, but I'd ask you guys to help keep watch on him. If they do get back to editing, maybe they should be restricted in some way — stick to mainspace, don't edit their talk page unless responding to someone else, don't edit their userspace extensively, no {{helpme}} spam, that kind of thing. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Either a very young editor or a more than usually subtle troll, only time will tell. I'm willing to give him/her some rope (and explain what s/he does right or wrong) but also bring in an admin if things get too ridiculous. WLU(t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 13:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
User:69.124.114.170
Over the past two weeks, this editor has made some 200 edits. All but a handful have consisted of adding categories to articles, mainly food related. In nearly all cases, these have been inappropriate, often adding categories such as "Australian cuisine" or "Czech cuisine" to all foods eaten in these and other countries.[171][172][173][174][175] These edits have been reverted by several editors, and the editor has received numerous warnings from many others regarding inappropriate categories. I have pointed out that "If a dish is listed as the national cuisine of every country where it is eaten, the category ceases to be useful"[176], and others have added warnings for disruption. Deepite this, the editor continues, repeatedly performing the same edit.
The editor has also repeatedly added unsourced (and contradictory) ethnic origin categories to a BLP.[177][178][179]
The editor has also made many similar edits to articles about the Chinese zodiac, and about fashion. I am not well-enough informed about these topics to assess whether these are helpful, but given the practice elsewhere, I doubt this.
Despite the regular reverts of their edits, and the many comments and warnings, the editor has not made any attempt to discuss these edits on the article talk page or their own talk page. Nor have they ever used an edit summary. It would seem that admin intervention is necessary in order to oblige this editor to act within the guidelines. RolandR (talk) 09:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I can watch, but as there has been no bad behaviour since the 'final warning' was issued, there's not much else to do at the moment. Manning (talk) 09:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Stepping in since I spotted this, the user's last edit was at 2:05 on Jan. 30th, to Meatloaf, which I reverted (and warned them for). Since most of their edits seem to be happening around that time of night (where I'm from), that's likely when we'll hear from them again. I didn't see that they had been notified of this thread, so I have done so. Calabe1992 22:38, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked 24 hours. I realise they have not editied now for some hours, but they have very regular times and patterns of editing and it seems very ikely they will be back on again in about 12 hours time and they show no sign of heeding the requests on their talk page. A 24 hour block will prevent further damage and hopefully will get them to take these requests more seriously. Kim Dent-Brown (Talk) 13:22, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Terrorism infobox
The terrorism info box seems to be broken,[180] I have no idea on how to fix it. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Fixed it. An IP removed the top line of coding of the template. Number 57 14:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Audit Subcommittee vacancies: Call for applications (2012) - second call
The Arbitration Committee is seeking to appoint at least three non-arbitrator members to the Audit Subcommittee.
The Audit Subcommittee ("AUSC") was established by the Arbitration Committee to investigate complaints concerning the use of CheckUser and Oversight privileges on the English Wikipedia, and to provide better monitoring and oversight of the CheckUser and Oversight positions, and use of the applicable tools.
Matters brought before the subcommittee may be time-sensitive and subcommittee members should be prepared and available to discuss cases promptly so they may be resolved in a timely manner. Sitting subcommittee members are expected to actively participate in AUSC proceedings and may be replaced should they become inactive. All subcommittee members are subject to the relevant local and global policies and guidelines concerning CheckUser and Oversight.
If you think you may be suitably qualified, please see the appointments page for further information. The application period is scheduled to close 31 January 2012.
For the Arbitration Committee, –xenotalk 18:00, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
- The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
- - Burpelson AFB ✈ 17:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Vote scam
Votes and comments are repeatedly deleted with no concrete reason by User:Eraserhead1, to frame towards his favourable result, at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese). [181] The same thing happened with Talk:China too. [182] He is now requesting for semi-protection to seal his fraud. [183] [184] 61.18.170.113 (talk) 17:09, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The amount of sockpuppetry and pure disruption from single purpose accounts and IP addresses in Hong Kong has risen to the level that Eraserhead1 needed to ask for semi-protection on talk pages. That is extremely serious and I support it. I'm currently compiling a list of IP ranges from problematic ISPs (HK ISPs commonly use rotating address proxies to overcome IPv4 shortages) so that this could at least be geographically confined. This will need further discussion and this isn't the place for it. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)
- I couldn't give a damn about the vote. What I do care about is stopping enormous levels of disruption coming from Hong Kong IP's. I suggest we block all Hong Kong IP's from being allowed to edit Talk:China and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese).
- I also find it very interesting that as soon as one IP address is given a warning the IP editing the page co-incidentally changes. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:41, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Out of curiosity, do you think this is the work of one individual or a group of some sort? Prioryman (talk) 22:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Those two pages have become extremely problematic. Discussion has become incoherent at times, partly because of Eraserhead1's definitely good faith but also somewhat disruptive attempts to clean up the discussions by removing large numbers of comments. There are many other problems with the pages, including what I personally suspect are solicited votes, the fact that a vote was held in the first place (WTF was someone thinking?), some ideologically driven posters still fighting geo-political wars from half a century ago, language difficulties (obviously a lot of people involved for whom English is not their first language) and, from many posters, a general failure to Discuss at all, just lecture. Even that initial post here, containing the expression "to frame towards his favourable result" shows the language problem. If an editor cannot write English well, can they really understand arguments presented by others in English? Yes, (some) Hong Kong posts are a problem, but there's FAR, FAR more. HiLo48 (talk) 22:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- HiLo, the backstory you've missed is that Hong Kong IP editors have been problematic for a while by going on, and on, and on - and there have been very few (if any) other IP editors contributing to the discussion. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oh I'm sure that's true. I know you wouldn't be taking the actions you did otherwise. My concern is always for innocent victims in situations like this. It's likely that there will be interested, reasonable AND rational editors from Hong Kong who would want to contribute. But I guess they can if they register, and there did seem to be some irrational aggression against that suggestion from some. It's an area of Wikipedia that's simply not working as it should right now. Despite a lot of words being typed, Discussion isn't occurring. And that "vote" should never have happened. It proved nothing. HiLo48 (talk) 23:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- HiLo, the backstory you've missed is that Hong Kong IP editors have been problematic for a while by going on, and on, and on - and there have been very few (if any) other IP editors contributing to the discussion. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Those two pages have become extremely problematic. Discussion has become incoherent at times, partly because of Eraserhead1's definitely good faith but also somewhat disruptive attempts to clean up the discussions by removing large numbers of comments. There are many other problems with the pages, including what I personally suspect are solicited votes, the fact that a vote was held in the first place (WTF was someone thinking?), some ideologically driven posters still fighting geo-political wars from half a century ago, language difficulties (obviously a lot of people involved for whom English is not their first language) and, from many posters, a general failure to Discuss at all, just lecture. Even that initial post here, containing the expression "to frame towards his favourable result" shows the language problem. If an editor cannot write English well, can they really understand arguments presented by others in English? Yes, (some) Hong Kong posts are a problem, but there's FAR, FAR more. HiLo48 (talk) 22:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Out of curiosity, do you think this is the work of one individual or a group of some sort? Prioryman (talk) 22:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- No evidence has ever been presented to prove any sockpuppetry so as to justify your actions. I don't know your intentions. But you got a strong position, and what you did was effectively gearing towards a result that you favoured. And you keep removing comments left by other IP editors from across at least four ISPs, even if those comments aren't relevant to that section of controversial discussion. This is disruptive. 61.18.170.215 (talk) 11:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
This item was marked "resolved" 12 hours ago. In what way has it been resolved? It's obvious all participants still feel the way they did before the discussion started, and no actions or directives have been put in place to change anything. Editors' behaviour can only be expected to continue exactly as before. Exactly what has been resolved? HiLo48 (talk) 00:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Query to closing admin. How was this resolved, and what was the rationale for the action or non-action taken? --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 02:54, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- The IP is now rangeblocked by Elockid, who is a checkuser. Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:38, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Attempted outing on Talk:Evolutionary psychology
I have this page on my watchlist. Memills (talk · contribs) has made these consecutive edits [185][186] which seem unduly aggressive and appear to be an attempted WP:OUTING. Mathsci (talk) 18:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- No outing is possible of a dead person -- David M. Schneider. Memills (talk) 19:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- No outing is possible of a dead person -- David M. Schneider. However, I do have concerns the user account DMSchneider.
- As noted by my comment in this section of the Talk page,
- "I would ask DMSchneider to state here that he is not in fact Holland using DMSchneider as a sockpuppet account. Also, the fact that the account apparently is named after David M. Schneider, a cultural anthropologist who believed that kinship was purely culturally constructed, also raises some concerns that this topic is being approached by DMSchneider primarily from a cultural anthropology perspective." Also see this concern about the Holland account. Memills (talk) 19:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Mathsci -- I did not give you permission to revert my comment above to a previous version. I removed my concern about a sockpuppet account because it was irrelevant to the issue of OUTING. Please do not do not restore material that I have deleted from my posts again without my permmission. Memills (talk) 20:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Memills, the edit you left was deceptive. If you want to check that Maximilianholland (talk · contribs) and DMSchneider (talk · contribs) might be the same undisclosed person, then you should just file a request at WP:SPI. A checkuser would be no good since Maximilianholland has not edited since August 2011. In the same way, people are not allowed to make inferences from your own user name on wikipedia. Mathsci (talk) 20:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[[
- Mathsci -- no, my edit was not deceptive. Again, you do not have my permission to revert my posts to previous versions, whether you believe them to be "deceptive" or not. That is unacceptable behavior on WP. [User:Memills Memills]] (talk) 20:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
| disruptive edit by sockpuppet of banned user Echigo mole - see WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Echigo mole and WP:BOOMERANG |
|---|
| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
|
- Thanks for restoring my original post (although you still have the portion that I deleted included above in the box).
- Maximilianholland (talk·contribs) used his real name as his WP identifier, and he also previously identified himself as that person on the Talk page. He outed himself. I cannot out him once he has done so. There was good reason to ask DMSchneider if that user name was a sock puppet account of Maximilianholland given the similarity of the content posted by these two accounts. DMSchneider said that was not the case; I'll take him at his word. Memills (talk) 21:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- If one person edits under their real name, that does not mean that you can ask a completely different user whether they are the person with that real name. In this case you could have asked whether their account was an alternative account of Maximilianholland (talk·contribs). Mathsci (talk) 22:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I will take your advice re this -- it is an unusual situation when an WP editor uses their real name as an identifier. I would ask too that you refrain from reverting others' comments to previous versions without their permission. Deal? Memills (talk) 23:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Commenting here with my admin-hat on. Mathsci, whether you feel that Memills was editing deceptively or not, it's inappropriate to edit their contribution here. Per WP:TPO there are a limited number of situations when you can edit another person's comment. If you feel that a person was being deceptive by redacting part of their comment, there's a very simple and uncontroversial way to handle that; just say it. You can even quote what they had said before or offer a diff to show it. There's nothing wrong with doing so and it is more effective than doing what is essentially a minor edit war over another person's comment.
- I will take your advice re this -- it is an unusual situation when an WP editor uses their real name as an identifier. I would ask too that you refrain from reverting others' comments to previous versions without their permission. Deal? Memills (talk) 23:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- If one person edits under their real name, that does not mean that you can ask a completely different user whether they are the person with that real name. In this case you could have asked whether their account was an alternative account of Maximilianholland (talk·contribs). Mathsci (talk) 22:11, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Memills, as to the outing, Maximilianholland hasn't edited for 5 months, and DMSchneider has only had an account for a month. If they were the same person, then it would give the appearance that the old account was abandoned and a new one created. This is explicitly allowed under our clean start policy as I see that Maximilianholland has a clean block record and certainly had no active sanctions when DMSchneider was created. An account change could have been done for privacy reasons, and I'd suggest honoring that need for privacy, until and unless the older account becomes active again. DMSchneider has denied a connection and I think it's good that you're taking them at their word.
- But was the question itself outing? I don't see any difference in asking someone if they edited under the account Maximilianholland or if they are someone named Maximilian Holland. If someone asked me if my name was Atama in real life I wouldn't consider that outing. As to the appropriateness of asking the question, it's acknowledged that questions like that will be asked in a situation like this. Our clean start policy warns editors who continue their old editing patterns with the following:
Editors who make a clean start and then resume editing in the same topic areas may be recognized by other editors in that area. If the previous and clean start accounts are not linked, this can result in direct questioning and/or sockpuppet investigation requests, and the linkage between the two accounts may become public knowledge. Clean start accounts should not return to the same topic areas or editing patterns if there is a strong desire to separate from the initial account.
- So I think we can let this one be for now. Take DMSchneider at their word, and I see nothing sanctionable from anyone else in this discussion. -- Atama頭 19:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Atama, the comment has been restored for a long time and the previous version is in a quote box, so your advice is a little late. If somebody has the username DMSchneider, why would anybody ask them if they were, for example, Monique Elouise Moulins? That would appear to be attempted outing. Mathsci (talk) 08:02, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, the previous version is in a quote box, which is not only okay, it's what I suggested that you should have originally done. I just wanted to remind you not to fiddle with others' comments, but I also wanted to respond to Memills's objection to the quote box; "although you still have the portion that I deleted included above in the box". I don't see a problem with the quote box as it is now.
- Atama, the comment has been restored for a long time and the previous version is in a quote box, so your advice is a little late. If somebody has the username DMSchneider, why would anybody ask them if they were, for example, Monique Elouise Moulins? That would appear to be attempted outing. Mathsci (talk) 08:02, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- So I think we can let this one be for now. Take DMSchneider at their word, and I see nothing sanctionable from anyone else in this discussion. -- Atama頭 19:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- If someone named Monique Elouise Moulins was showing particularly similar edits to another account, then I don't see how it's harassment to ask them if they're the same editor. Basically, if you want to edit Wikipedia under your own username, you're taking a risk. If you later decide to edit under a different account and in a similar manner than before, you're practically telling people who you are. We explicitly warn people about such things in our policies. We can't just turn a blind eye, otherwise a person could make themselves effectively immune to sockpuppetry charges by claiming a username that is the same as their real life name. We try to respect editors' privacy, but editors must take efforts to maintain that privacy. -- Atama頭 18:07, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Collins Island, Newport Beach
Could an admin with a moment assist me here; I have a user who can't seem to understand that copy>paste moves aren't acceptable. He copied the page to Collins Island, California and keeps redirecting the original title to there. Could someone assist with the speedy of the new version so the old one can be moved? Thanks. Calabe1992 01:07, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Taking a closer look, this user (Mountain3144 (talk·contribs)) has made multiple copy>paste moves. Could someone help out with getting them straightened out. Thanks. Calabe1992 01:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked for 12 hours for 3RR violation. Hopefully the point was made and the editor is willing to discuss and not editwar. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:13, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked for sockpuppetry, see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Toronto2503. Nothing else to do here. WilliamH (talk) 10:43, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked for 12 hours for 3RR violation. Hopefully the point was made and the editor is willing to discuss and not editwar. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:13, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Need a rev del
Forwarded to oversight, redacted to reduce visibility. My76Strat (talk) 03:18, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Revdel'd, made my own request for suppression. Acroterion (talk) 03:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Possible Sockpuppetry of user
I would like the administrator community to view the possible practice of creating multiple accounts and sockpuppetry related to HereToSaveWiki. The original account holder is Seeta mayya. Since I, and several other editors, are highly familiar with her and her tremendously disruptive behavior and her style of speaking, I found an immediate similarity. Please note, I have been very short-tempered with Seeta mayya mainly because of some unacceptably foul personal attacks which went unreported mainly because some supportive editors veered off consensus. The user has a history of making very irrelevant and inflammable attacks, especially against me and Meryam90. In addition, she seems to have a great fondness for Shahrukh Khan-related articles and often trolls them; the new editor has also begun the same trend on Talk:Shahrukh Khan. If this user is proved a sockpuppet, I suggest an immediate indefinite IP ban on the user, as well as indefinite bans on all the accounts the user has. ~*~AnkitBhatt~*~ 08:27, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I would like the administrator community to go ahead and perform a sockpuppet check on my account HereToSaveWiki and if in fully true sense, I'm found to the one accused here as Seeta mayya, then I would myself request the community to block me or ban my IP or whatever Wiki does. But if I'm not found to be the one, then I would like you to take the same action against the above user who has accused me of being a sockpuppet. Please read my below points.
- I would request the administrators here to have a look at my contributions and see that I've created this account today and so far have just one main edit about a controversy (published in most of India's leading newspapers today) that too on a talk page to discuss about the matter rather than editing on the article page directly. Does this prove that I'm not a vandal atleast?
- Rest of my edits here are on several user talk pages asking them to provide their comments to gain consensus over that matter. Does this prove that I respect Wiki policies and avoid edit warring or violating 3RR?
- Next if you read my edits, you'll notice that I've not mentioned any specific editor in my edits thereby preventing a personal attack on any editor on Wiki.
- Further, as stated by above user "Please note, I have been very short-tempered with Seeta mayya", please note that the user is again being very short-tempered as and has used abusive and foul language here and here in replying to my edit. He should've kept his cool and not used words like "bullshit","Go do it somewhere else", "your level of shit talk", "I will throw you out of Wikipedia" etc.,
- I do not know the history but may be AnkitBhatt must have had sleepless nights with what had happened between him and Seeta mayya or Seeta mayya might still be a scary nightmare for him, but there was actually no reason for him this time atleast to lose his temper and raise his blood pressure levels. Such kind of person are mere patients of Hypertension
- I would like to state that it is in fact AnkitBhatt who has violated several Wiki policies of BITE, NPA, Civility, Etiquette & NLT and has threatened me to the core with just my single edit.
- Last, if convinced by my defensive claims, I request Wiki admin community to take fair action to prevent AnkitBhatt harassing new editors in future. -- HereToSaveWiki (talk) 10:05, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- AnkitBhatt, the correct forum for your concern is WP:SPI. User:HereToSaveWiki, I commend you on your knowledge of policy - unusual to see in newly registered contributors. - Sitush (talk) 10:12, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks Sitush. But I'll be honest here. Though I newly created an account for myself today, I am not a new editor to Wiki. I've been editing Wiki since long but have always used the shared IP of my organization. Recently, a notice was put on the shared IP talk page stating that many users in my organization have been doing the same and will have to discontinue the practice to prevent vandalism. We are strictly encouraged to create an account for ourselves before editing further on Wiki. Hence the account was created today and the rest is what I just said above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HereToSaveWiki (talk • contribs) 10:28, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- AnkitBhatt, the correct forum for your concern is WP:SPI. User:HereToSaveWiki, I commend you on your knowledge of policy - unusual to see in newly registered contributors. - Sitush (talk) 10:12, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
We'll see. And yes, if you are NOT seeta mayya then you can completely ignore whatever I said; the said user was an enormous pain and left a ton of unpleasant memories. However, you are not going to address me in the way you did just now. Is that clearly understood? ~*~AnkitBhatt~*~ 10:31, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Regardless of any sock puppetry this notice is nonsensical. An editor cannot be summoned to ANI as if it was a panel of judges and issued instructions about the speed of their response. Cool it. --SnowdedTALK 10:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)
- I disagree with you, Snowded. It is not "nonsensical" to run an WP:SPI, if there are SPI concerns. Let it run, and see what the outcome is.
- I disagree with you, Ankit. Using terms like "officially summoned", "expected to appear in front of the examining administrators", and "any attempt at resistance and your situation will be viewed with disdain" may possibly appear to be construed as not advancing the Wikipedia project.
- --Shirt58 (talk) 11:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Uncivil and Harassing behaviour
I would like the administrator community to have a look at this notice sent by user AnkitBhatt. The user has showed indications of uncivil and harassing behavior by falsely accusing me of being a sockpuppet of account Seeta mayya. He has used abusive and foul language here and here in replying to my edit. He should've kept his cool and not used words like "bullshit","Go do it somewhere else", "your level of shit talk", "I will throw you out of Wikipedia" etc., AnkitBhatt has in fact violated several Wiki policies of BITE, NPA, Civility, Etiquette & NLT and has threatened me to the core with just my single edit. I request Wiki admin community to take fair action to prevent AnkitBhatt harassing the editors in future. -- HereToSaveWiki (talk) 11:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, they have already been appropriately warned. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:38, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- This is an ongoing issue; Anhitbhatt ragequit Wikipedia in December and left a notice saying that he intended to attack his opponents if he ever came back ("if, in any case, I ever do think of returning, then I warn these two editors to stay away from me. I will be totally no-holds-barred, and believe me, you have not seen anything yet."). Temper has been an issue with this editor for months, and I'm disappointed to see that his wikibreak hasn't mellowed him. I would suggest an interaction ban between Ankitbhatt and his two main opponents, who he names as Guru coolguy (talk·contribs) and Seeta mayya (talk·contribs), said ban to extend to any accounts he believes to be socks of these accounts, as above. Ankitbhatt cannot hold his temper in regards to these editors, who may or may not be needling him, so it falls to us to force them to leave each other alone. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 15:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- What concerns me is this tendency to form deep-seated grudges to the point of incivility. Even if it's only against one or two users, it's still conduct unbecoming of an administrator.--WaltCip (talk) 16:11, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ankitbhatt is not an administrator, just an editor. But it's also behaviour unbecoming of a Wikipedia editor, imho. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 16:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- What concerns me is this tendency to form deep-seated grudges to the point of incivility. Even if it's only against one or two users, it's still conduct unbecoming of an administrator.--WaltCip (talk) 16:11, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- This is an ongoing issue; Anhitbhatt ragequit Wikipedia in December and left a notice saying that he intended to attack his opponents if he ever came back ("if, in any case, I ever do think of returning, then I warn these two editors to stay away from me. I will be totally no-holds-barred, and believe me, you have not seen anything yet."). Temper has been an issue with this editor for months, and I'm disappointed to see that his wikibreak hasn't mellowed him. I would suggest an interaction ban between Ankitbhatt and his two main opponents, who he names as Guru coolguy (talk·contribs) and Seeta mayya (talk·contribs), said ban to extend to any accounts he believes to be socks of these accounts, as above. Ankitbhatt cannot hold his temper in regards to these editors, who may or may not be needling him, so it falls to us to force them to leave each other alone. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 15:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Is this worth worrying about
This popped up on my watchlist. The editor it is directed at has not edited here since September last year and going through the IPs contributions nothing stands out that could have triggered it here. It appears to be bullshit, but in accordance with Wikipedia:Threats of violence I thought I would report it here. I sent an email to emergency@wikimedia.org just in case, but got an out of office reply. AIRcorn (talk) 23:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Jalexander (talk · contribs) has replied and is looking into it. AIRcorn (talk) 23:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hey, is there any way that the Foundation could suppress out-of-office replies to emails sent to emergency@wikimedia.org? I sent a message a few weeks ago to emergency and got an out-of-office reply too, and had I not known that the address was monitored by a large number of editors I would have been concerned. A new editor might think that nobody was watching the inbox.
- If there's a better place to post this, let me know. --NellieBly (talk) 03:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Good grief. Reminds me of this old one, a call center answerer: "Suicide Prevention Center... thank you for holding... Hello? Hello?" ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 03:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I work in an ER for a rural area, which means there's one psych center we contact for all our psychiatric patients... and they have one phone line. Getting a busy signal on their Crisis Line always struck me as a bad thing. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 20:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'll find out. Easier said than done, but I'll ask. :) Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 21:38, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I work in an ER for a rural area, which means there's one psych center we contact for all our psychiatric patients... and they have one phone line. Getting a busy signal on their Crisis Line always struck me as a bad thing. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 20:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Good grief. Reminds me of this old one, a call center answerer: "Suicide Prevention Center... thank you for holding... Hello? Hello?" ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 03:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Possible legal threat
Does this constitute a legal threat? I'm thinking specifically of the last sentence:
"I will wait for the outcome of for this week's board meeting of Wikipedia in San Francisco and if the outcome is not satisfactory, I feel it my duty to contact both http://www.irs.gov and http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ about the matter."
I'm not sure if this comes under the legal threats banner or not, so I'd like wiser minds (or failing that, admins) to take a look. Yunshui 雲水 11:10, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Writing an angry letter to a government agency is not legal action. Neither is writing to a newspaper, WR, a blog or Facebook. A legal threat is anything which states (or implies) an action will be commenced in a court of law. Manning (talk) 11:24, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree, but this person is acting in a disruptive fashion nonetheless. She can write letters to anybody she wants, but her demands that a certain thing be done on Wikipedia or else she'll do so are an obvious attempt to undermine the consensus building process Wikipedia is based upon. So, even though this is not a legal threat, the rationale NLT relies upon – WP:NLT#Rationale for the policy – certainly applies. A block is, therefore, warranted. Salvio Let's talk about it! 11:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Writing an angry letter to a government agency is not legal action. Neither is writing to a newspaper, WR, a blog or Facebook. A legal threat is anything which states (or implies) an action will be commenced in a court of law. Manning (talk) 11:24, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- There is nothing resembling a legal threat here, so a block under WP:NLT simply cannot be justified. However a block for disruptive conduct is a different matter, and I would support that. (My earlier statement was not meant to imply the user was behaving acceptably, merely that there was no legal threat at play.) Manning (talk) 11:42, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't know if common editors can write at this noticeboard, but I want to made you aware that I reverted Salvio giuliano deletion of Natbrown post at the Village pump. Since this person is a very sporadic editor, and that she has a legitimate concern, I think treating her as disruptive is WP:BITE. She should be educated, not punished. That's my two cents. Diego (talk) 12:06, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- There is nothing resembling a legal threat here, so a block under WP:NLT simply cannot be justified. However a block for disruptive conduct is a different matter, and I would support that. (My earlier statement was not meant to imply the user was behaving acceptably, merely that there was no legal threat at play.) Manning (talk) 11:42, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- It very clearly resembles a legal threat by effectively saying "if Wikipedia does not agree to remove those images (that don't belong to Wikipedia in the first place, may I add) then I will attempt to have their charitable status removed". Clearly a chilling attempt to persuade Wikipedia to bend to their desired end state. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:42, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Bear in mind that this comment (not a legal threat, though clearly meant to be chilling, as Bwilkins noted) was originally posted at Jimbo's talk page and no action was taken, so acting now after a repost at the Village Pump seems unfair. Asking the editor to tone it down and pointing out that blocks could occur if further posts attempt to intimidate would be reasonable, however. EdChem (talk) 12:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree, that's what I was talking about with 'educate' and 'don't bite'. Diego (talk) 12:56, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I hadn't realised it was also pasted at Jimbo's talk; I encountered it first at the Village Pump and went from there. For the record, this thread was not a demand for a block, rather a request for clarification over whether or not WP:NLT applies here. It seems, per the comments above, that it does not. Yunshui 雲水 12:58, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unhappily, he is being encouraged to follow through on his threats by other editors. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 22:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
User:MarcusMaximus0
Would someone please explain to this sockpuppet that edit warring in uncited contentious material on a BLP is against the rules.[188] Darkness Shines (talk) 17:49, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think labeling users who disagree with you sockpuppet will help. I've filed a report at WP:BLPN so that the content can be checked. I don't think this is BLP vio.. infact you are editwarring with this user here on the pretext. The content is properly sourced with complete information. Deadlinks do not mean that sources are not cited... see WP:SOURCEACCESS. I've explained this to you on the talk page in much detail. Also please note that there is a sockpuppet report filed about the user being reported... so using multiple noticeboards about the same report raises a redflag in my view. --lTopGunl (talk) 17:54, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Really? So saying this In an interview with a Russian daily Israel's Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman rendered Pakistan as "Evil empire" is all fine and dandy when it cannot be verified? And I told you on the article talk page that I looked for other sources. And posting here was the only option as the sock kept reverting it in. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- And just in case you decide to not believe me [189] Not a single hit on GNews. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:04, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
(editconflict) The sentence cited by DS about Lieberman definitely needs a working reference or two. The behavior by MarcusMaximus who just yesterday registered his account going straight into edit warring on contested issues is indeed suspicious as a sock IP with the same behavior was just blocked for a week for using multiple IP accounts. JCAla (talk) 18:11, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
User talk:142.35.234.217
The most recent edit to this page (by the blocked user) claims to reveal an IP address used by another user. Could someone address this? Calabe1992 19:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- No need, he's wrong on both counts. I've revoked talk-page access though. HJ MitchellPenny for your thoughts? 19:24, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
New user blocked people?
OLoveofYash is going around putting block templates on user accounts [190] Is this allowed? Darkness Shines (talk) 19:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Looks like a VOA to me. Calabe1992 19:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- What is a VOA? Darkness Shines (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:56, 31 January 2012 (UTC).
- (edit conflict)
Administrator note I've blocked OLoveofYash (talk·contribs) indefinitely as a VOA, and Reaper Eternal blocked Botanill (talk·contribs) (the account OLoveofYash attempted to "block") indefinitely as a VOA. Eagles24/7(C) 19:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC) - Just a thought, there's no chance at all that these are User:Crouch, Swale socks? I remember his socks farting around with each other in similar ways. Calabe1992 20:04, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Dattorro
This relates a long-standing legal-threaty sort of situation last year relating to User:Dattorro. I get this information second hand from another party. Troubled waters have been calmed in the very tense initial case although there is a new concern that the page <<Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Dattorro>> is somehow visible to the Google search engine. The "spam and abuse" line is portrayed by the subject as defamatory. I have no opinion as to the merit of this claim, but the solution is very simple: hiding the page from Google. Would an administrator please take some sort of action that would make this page invisible to Google? Thank you. Carrite (talk) 20:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC) Last edit:Carrite (talk) 20:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Here's the full URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Suspected_Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_DattorroCarrite (talk) 20:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- (Non admin comment) There are many hundreds of similar categories. Can robots.txt exclude them? -- John of Reading (talk) 22:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, the "spam and abuse" shouldn't be in there anyway - it should just have the {{sockpuppet category}} template. So I've modified it accordingly. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. I've similarly switched away from the arguably defamatory words "spam and abuse" to the technically accurate "suspected sockpuppets" on a number of other pages and Mr. Dattorro has been notified that an effort has been made to address his concerns through my intermediary. I'm not seeing any WP hits for about 7 pages of a google search of his name. I think this thread can be marked as "resolved" now. Thanks for your help. Carrite (talk) 17:06, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Is it possible to delete an edit summary without removing the edit?
There's a bit of a kindergarten situation at Talk:Homeopathy and a user has made a PA in his edit summary and comment diff. I already removed it from the comment but obviously cannot change his edit summary. It's not an "awful" PA, and if this was on a user talk page I would tend to let them work this out on their own, but the homeopathy talk is very busy and (for once!) even looking like we're working on improving the article, so this kind of diversion needs to be stopped as soon as possible (and with as little drama as possible). --Six words (talk) 12:10, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- An admin can through WP:REVDEL. I personally don't touch these things though.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:12, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- In this case, I don't think the personal attack rises to the level where the edit summary should be removed. If you're worried about the personal attack being visible on a highly viewed page, I would respectfully suggest that calling attention to it on a more highly viewed page such as this is last thing you should do. You've given a warning to Sleuth21, and that's probably enough for now. -- Ed (Edgar181) 12:27, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I didn't make light of the decision to ask this, but if you think leaving it at that is the best strategy I'm okay with that.--Six words (talk) 12:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Very childish, but does not meet the requirements of WP:REVDEL (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I've given the editor a formal warning regarding the discretionary sanctions from Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy. I hope they are not needed. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:01, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Very childish, but does not meet the requirements of WP:REVDEL (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I didn't make light of the decision to ask this, but if you think leaving it at that is the best strategy I'm okay with that.--Six words (talk) 12:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
User:Androzaniamy
Androzaniamy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Androzaniamy has shown time and time again that she is not competent enough to edit Wikipedia. Despite many warnings for creating articles without reliable sources that do not pass WP:GNG, she has persisted by feigning ignorance, being defensive of her actions, outright lying, and arguing with policy. I understand that she is still a relatively new user, but refusing to listen to others is disruptive.
Troublesome diffs to support my claims:
- January 9: [191], [192], [193]; January 13: [194], [195]; January 14: [196]; January 15: [197], [198] (followed by [199]); January 17: [200], [201]; January 21: [202], [203], User talk:Eagles247/Archive 30#Do you have a thing against me.3F, [204]; January 23: User talk:Wikipelli#I was just wondering..., [205] (followed by this discussion); January 24: [206], [207], User_talk:Calabe1992#An_apology; January 27: [208]; January 28: User_talk:Wikipelli#You still haven't made it clear, User_talk:Eagles247#Is_the_link_enough.3F; January 29: [209], User_talk:Eagles247#Not_another_one.21, [210], [211], [212], [213]; January 30: [214], [215]; January 31: [216], [217], [218], [219]
Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:24, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- To clarify: the mentions of "swearing" in some of those links appear to refer to the long-established (Sept 2007) redirect WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS which seems to be too strong language for this editor. PamD 23:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I would concur that the considered user is at this point taking up more of other editors time than her(?) contributions justify, and presents maturity questions. However, in mild defense, it should be noted that the complaining user has allowed her to get under his(?) skin and has overreacted in at least some instances, insisting that material fails WP:GNG when that is at the very least not obvious (as witnessed by his attempt to redirect Hacker the Dog to CBBC; a usable article has now grown in that spot.) I think that suggests that the GNG-sense of the concerned user is more a bit beyond the edge, rather than utterly off the island. After the amount of effort that's been put in on her, however, I've lost hope that she is likely to become much more useful. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- (Androzaniamy is a "she" per [220]. I am a he.)Hacker the Dog does not pass WP:GNG IMO, and I refrained from taking it to AfD for the time being, but I do not feel this is relevant to this discussion. Here are links to the articles I've nominated that this user created: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hacker Time, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isaac Ssebandeke, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gregory Foreman, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Well (TV series), and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stacked (TV film). Three deleted, and two possible deletions on the way. Eagles24/7(C) 20:46, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- It looks like what you mean by "possible deletion" is merely that you've nominated it for deletion. Let us note that one of the two not-yet-deleted articles seems on its way to being kept, and that one of the three deleted articles was not deleted because the topic failed GNG but for quite the opposite - the topic was sufficiently notable that it already had an article which has survived more than two years under a different name. --Nat Gertler (talk) 21:40, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- (Androzaniamy is a "she" per [220]. I am a he.)Hacker the Dog does not pass WP:GNG IMO, and I refrained from taking it to AfD for the time being, but I do not feel this is relevant to this discussion. Here are links to the articles I've nominated that this user created: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hacker Time, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isaac Ssebandeke, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gregory Foreman, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Well (TV series), and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stacked (TV film). Three deleted, and two possible deletions on the way. Eagles24/7(C) 20:46, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
80.192.x.x insults
I don't know if the person is real or not, but two IPs from the above range added some rather disgusting remarks about someone at Brothel, which I reverted. A similar edit was made at Cream pie, which was caught by the bot. Not sure on other articles. Calabe1992 22:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- All edits from these two IP's have been reverted (by others), and IP's blocked (by me). I didn't bother revdel'ing them, but if someone thinks that's important to do, the IP's in question are User talk:80.192.146.1 and User talk:80.192.210.65. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:58, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I revdell'd #1 as a possible BLP - the other doesn't seem to have the same issue. Skier Dude (talk) 23:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
IP editor stalking
And reverting another editor for no reason that I can see [221] Darkness Shines (talk)
- And he appears to have added an e-mail address to this BLP [222] Darkness Shines (talk) 01:41, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked and reverted. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:44, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Mistress Selina Kyle's unblock request
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- This was a difficult discussion to close, not the least of which was the fact that the numbers supporting/opposing an unblock are divided (at my best count 32 supporting an unblock/24 opposing it). While such numbers indicate that a majority of editors support an unblock, it does not represent the level of support normally associated with a clear consensus (57%), so it required me to look deeper at a few things. First, I needed to look closely at the arguments themselves (as one should always do). Those supporting an unblock note the time passed since the block (5.5 years), the fact that the recent socking didn't obscure her identity, and the sentiment (if not the direct citation of) WP:ROPE, and the lack of a prior formal ban discussion. Those opposing an unblock note the recent socking and her prior block log as evidence of the need to remain blocked. Both sides make good arguments, but two factors helped me decide this case. First, someone has volunteered to be her mentor, a definite requirement for someone to return to the fold in this nature. Secondly, while some people early on switch votes from support to oppose, most of the recent changes have gone from oppose to support. That is, of people who have changed their votes, and changed them recently, the changes seem to be tending to go more towards supporting an unblock. In other words, there seems to be a trend among people who are following these proceedings closely to be changing their opinions towards having this user unblocked. Based on this reasoning, I am unblocking this account under the following conditions: 1) User:Mistress Selina Kyle is restricted to a single account. 2) User:Mistress Selina Kyle is reminded of WP:ROPE and is on a short leash. 3) Per agreement below, in a comment dated 21:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC), User:Volunteer Marek is assigned as a formal mentor to User:Mistress Selina Kyle 4) Persuant to the conditions above, if problems arise regarding any violation of Wikipedia policies or behavioral guidelines, a reblock shall be swift and unforgiving. This is a last chance, not a free lisence to return to old problems. I will be monitoring the situation, and if I become aware of problems, I will reinstate the block. --Jayron32 04:46, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
User:Mistress Selina Kyle was indefinitely blocked about 5.5 years ago. She is now requesting to be unblocked. (See her talk page.) It's been over 24 hours since her original unblock request, so I figured I would post here in order to get a community consensus. Though I was active in 2006, I wasn't involved in the conflicts that got MSK banned. Personally, I'm inclined to unblock her and move on. Comments? --Fang Aili talk 18:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Could she be temporarily unblocked to participate in this discussion? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Special:Contributions/Mss._Selina_Kyle – What's the community's opinion concerning the performance of Selina's most recent account? --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 20:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think the only small concern here might be that Selina's been away for awhile and in the meantime Wikipedia's changed, some for better (blog sites no longer acceptable as RS,
perhaps a bit less bullying of the kind that was involved in her original block{guess I was too optimistic [223]) (though IMNSHO mostly for worse). Anyway, it might take her a little bit to get re-acculturated, it's sort of like leaving a country then coming back thirty years (in Wikipedia time) later. Other than that just unblock already.VolunteerMarek 20:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)- Aw - I was gonna make you adopting mentor. Youreallycan 20:57, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sure, why the hell not.VolunteerMarek 21:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Aw - I was gonna make you adopting mentor. Youreallycan 20:57, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think the only small concern here might be that Selina's been away for awhile and in the meantime Wikipedia's changed, some for better (blog sites no longer acceptable as RS,
- I think that some of her contributions such as [224] are up to current standards. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 22:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- - note - Wikipedia:List of banned users#Mistress Selina Kyle - user is currently community banned - Youreallycan 21:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Note - that page, unless I'm missing something, has it wrong (who writes that stuff anyway? - looks like a total grudge/pov/grave-dancing magnet. Just list'em, don't comment or editorialize). Selina was unilaterally blocked by a single admin (with a false edit summary smacking of a personal attack). She was then unblocked by another administrator, apparently, as far as I can make out with Jimbo's approval. Then the first administrator re-blocked Selina. Then there was a community discussion which conflated Selina's block with that of another user [225]. At roughly this point it looks like Selina just threw her hands up in the air and gave up on Wikipedia and didn't challenge the block. There's most certainly no consensus in that discussion for retaining the block, much less for it to be described as "community ban". I don't know, this is from the old days where things were done differently but from the perspective of today's standards the whole thing looks sketchy as hell.
- Anyway, I've seen people who've done much much much worse, get unblocked after much much much shorter period of time. There's also WP:STANDARDOFFER which is applicable.VolunteerMarek 21:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I just received an email through Wikipedia's email system where Mistress Selina Kyle asked me to ask an admin to look at this discussion. I'm sure plenty of admins have already looked at it. Since Mistress Selina Kyle is the creator of a Web site that attacks other admins and editors, including myself and several contributors that I've worked with, I have to say hell no, to be blunt about it. MSK screwed up in the past, so why should she be let off the hook now? I screwed up in the past as well, and Wikipedia Review raked me over the coals for it, as evidenced by the fact that I lost adminship a few years ago. Blatant policy violations, blatant breaches of privacy, and other disruptive activity related to Wikipedia should not be forgiven -- not now, not ever. As they say in criminal justice circles, "Once a criminal, always a criminal." --Elkman (Elkspeak) 22:43, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think she sent the email (I got one too - AFTER I had already posted here) simply because she has no other way of bringing admin's attention to this matter. The fact that she sent it to people like you very clearly shows this wasn't canvassing. As to WR, you're just making shit up. Oh yeah and your comment that in "criminal justice circles" (whatever these are) they actually say """Once a criminal, always a criminal."" (seriously?) is a pretty good indication of why you're not an admin anymore.VolunteerMarek 23:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Not to mention the unintentional irony in putting "I screwed up in the past" with "Once a criminal, always a criminal." and "MSK screwed up in the past, so why should she be let off the hook now?" in the same damn post. Forgiveness for me but not for thee? Quintessence of AN/I it would seem.VolunteerMarek 23:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Logic doesn't appear to be a subject in which Elkman has much background. MalleusFatuorum 00:09, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I know damn fucking well I'll never be forgiven for any of my Wikipedia screwups -- or any of my off-Wikipedia screwups. There's no logic error in what I posted. To me, a mistake is the same thing as a screwup, and a screwup is the same thing as a crime. If I'm unforgivable, then MSK is unforgivable. And she should have kept her opinions to herself. --Elkman(Elkspeak) 03:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- So because you feel you've been hard done by, you want to see others suffer as well. Rightyo. I'm sure the closing admin will give your opinions exactly the weight they deserve. ReykYO! 03:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- No, I wasn't "hard done by". I screwed up and I deserved what I got out of that whole mess. But since MSK is asking for an unblock, and since she runs a site that brings my screwups to light, celebrates my screwups, and revels in my screwups, then I have to strongly object to her unblocking. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 03:26, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- So because you feel you've been hard done by, you want to see others suffer as well. Rightyo. I'm sure the closing admin will give your opinions exactly the weight they deserve. ReykYO! 03:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I know damn fucking well I'll never be forgiven for any of my Wikipedia screwups -- or any of my off-Wikipedia screwups. There's no logic error in what I posted. To me, a mistake is the same thing as a screwup, and a screwup is the same thing as a crime. If I'm unforgivable, then MSK is unforgivable. And she should have kept her opinions to herself. --Elkman(Elkspeak) 03:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Logic doesn't appear to be a subject in which Elkman has much background. MalleusFatuorum 00:09, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I likewise received an email notification regarding this. My personal opinions of Wikipedia Review are just that, personal opinions. Canvassing is obviously a bad thing, so that does need to be taken into account. In general, a sign of maturity is taking responsibility for ones own actions, even if one was not completely at fault. Mistress Selina Kyle's shifting of blame to others does not indicate they have matured, nor that they understand their actions were wrong on any level. If I was an administrator,
I'd be minded to decline the unblock request at this point in time(see comments below). Steven Zhang Join the DR army! 22:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Canvassing may or may not be a bad thing but the fact that she sent it to people like Elkman above is pretty much prima facie evidence that the notification was sent to neutral (and even vehemently bitterly opposed) parties. So no, it's not canvassing.VolunteerMarek 23:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- If it was a neutrally worded email I would somewhat agree. As you can appreciate, I can't say what the email said exactly, but to provide the gist, the email detailed a request to examine their talk page and see links which detail why they felt their ban was unfair, and provided a link to this thread to comment on "if I support" (the unban). To me, this doesn't seem to be a neutrally worded request at all. Steven Zhang Join the DR army! 23:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, it must've been a different email than the one I got since mine just more or less said "can you please look at this thread" and that's it. But even what you describe does not sound all that bad - just a typical case of a user who is currently blocked trying to bring attention to their unblock request.VolunteerMarek 23:57, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Eh, I'm not overly bothered either way. Blocks are cheap, and it has been over five years. Though I have concerns about maturity, I also note that if unblocked, they would likely be under the microscope for some time. I wouldn't object to an unblock, after all if they cause issues again they would likely be re-blocked. Steven Zhang Join the DR army! 00:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm, it must've been a different email than the one I got since mine just more or less said "can you please look at this thread" and that's it. But even what you describe does not sound all that bad - just a typical case of a user who is currently blocked trying to bring attention to their unblock request.VolunteerMarek 23:57, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- If it was a neutrally worded email I would somewhat agree. As you can appreciate, I can't say what the email said exactly, but to provide the gist, the email detailed a request to examine their talk page and see links which detail why they felt their ban was unfair, and provided a link to this thread to comment on "if I support" (the unban). To me, this doesn't seem to be a neutrally worded request at all. Steven Zhang Join the DR army! 23:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Canvassing may or may not be a bad thing but the fact that she sent it to people like Elkman above is pretty much prima facie evidence that the notification was sent to neutral (and even vehemently bitterly opposed) parties. So no, it's not canvassing.VolunteerMarek 23:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Of relevance: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mistress Selina Kyle. I have to agree with Steven's comments above. Prioryman (talk) 22:59, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, that is of relevance. She was more transparent about her previous accounts than some administrators are. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 16:42, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I saw this, and decided to see into the contribs, but when I got an email, then I am Strongly opposing this. It's a violation of WP:CANVASS of what the user said (Not going to state the text of the email) The SPI is stronginging my oppose. ~~Ebe123~~ → report on my contribs. 23:22, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Again you seem to have no idea or comprehension of what is and what is not canvassing. If you got the same email as I did then it was very much within the parameters of what is considered acceptable. It was neutrally worded and sent to all sorts of folks. The only problem that I'm seeing with it now is that she sent it to too many people (per "mass notification" part). But again, this is just probably due to loss of cultural perspective after being away from Wikipedia for five years. Nothing serious.VolunteerMarek 23:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- By what contorted logic could a request for participation be sent to too many people? Too few maybe, but too many? How does that work? MalleusFatuorum 00:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- To answer the rhetorical question: by Wikipedia logic. To answer the deeper question: WP:CANVASS was initially a spin off WP:SPAM which was intended to prohibit solicitation of opinions from people who didn't want to be bothered (spammed) - that's your "too many" right there. Then some schmuck lost some dispute, blamed others, and out of sour grapes split off a portion of WP:SPAM into a "I was rightz but I wuz defeated cuz they cheated" page. Then some other schmuck cleaned up the atrocious grammar and obvious hyperbole as an innocent favor, and that's how it got turned into WP:CANVASS as we know it, which still retains the "don't bother too many people in your notifications" aspect from its original WP:SPAM ancestor. Of course as a result it evolved into this self-contradictory schizophrenic double think newspeak, but that's how Wikipedia works.VolunteerMarek 00:51, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- By what contorted logic could a request for participation be sent to too many people? Too few maybe, but too many? How does that work? MalleusFatuorum 00:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Again you seem to have no idea or comprehension of what is and what is not canvassing. If you got the same email as I did then it was very much within the parameters of what is considered acceptable. It was neutrally worded and sent to all sorts of folks. The only problem that I'm seeing with it now is that she sent it to too many people (per "mass notification" part). But again, this is just probably due to loss of cultural perspective after being away from Wikipedia for five years. Nothing serious.VolunteerMarek 23:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- - note - User:Volunteer Marek has after the link been posted here and the unblock only he supported has gone to the list of banned users and twice removed the details of the editing and the name of the sockpuppet from the ban record of User:Mistress Selina Kyle. Youreallycan 23:54, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Note I sure as hell did, since as it as it currently exist that page is essentially an attack page against people who have no means of responding (though I'm sure the vast majority of them deserve it). I also made what I think is a very reasonable proposal on the talk page.VolunteerMarek 00:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- This just seems to be a grudge match started by those who take exception to the existence of WR. I can assure you that it's no more complimentary about me than it is to any of you broken-hearted administrators, but it's a healthy channel for things that cannot be said here that need to be said nevertheless. Just do the unblock and let's move on. Malleus Fatuorum 23:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- She wrote me (in neutral language) and asked me to look in here, nothing more.
- I have had no previous contact with her. I have been extremely critical of WR's initial publication of the stolen confidential ArbCom emails, so that her asking me cannot be viewed as canvassing.
- (Further, I disclosed that she had contacted me on her talk page.) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I got an email as well, and I'm another editor who has been rather critical of Wikipedia Review. Though I don't know whether she has been emailing admins she thinks are uninvolved or ones like me with a strong dislike of Wikipedia Review. In any event, we need to remember that our policy is that Blocks are lifted if they are not (or no longer) necessary to prevent such damage or disruption. I've asked a few questions on her talkpage, and I'd suggest that if anyone else has concerns they ask her for assurances. Five and a half years is a very long time, more than long enough for us to give her a second chance. ϢereSpielChequers 00:09, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- She wrote me as well. It was fairly neutral. I am generally opposed to email canvassing (I didn't even know banned / blocked users could use the email feature), so count me as an oppose. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Let's get the elephant in the room on the table (excuse the mixed metaphors). I haven't come across MSK before but apparently she is heavily involved in the administration of Wikipedia Review. A lot of people have good reason to dislike WR for the way its members have attacked Wikipedia and Wikipedians. To what extent should this be taken into consideration in deciding this unblock request? Prioryman (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yeah, let's get that elephant going. The answer is not at all. A lot of people have good reason to dislike people like you for the way you attack Wikipedia Review members (who include admins, ArbCom members, WMF employees and prominent media personalities) and Wikipedia Review. The only difference here I can think of is that on Wikipedia Review about 70% of the criticism is pertinent (and Wikipedia's better for it) and 30%'s either bullshit. With you one of these categories is 99.9% (that's me WP:AGFing you right there). This mentality which you somehow came to personalize lately that anyone who dares to say something critical about Wikipedia must be banned, beaten and kicked, is about the worst thing you can do to the Wikipedia itself. Any healthy environment takes criticism in stride. It doesn't try to squash it.VolunteerMarek 00:42, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- None at all, unless your intention is to organise Wikipedia along the same lines as the Mafia. Malleus Fatuorum 00:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I would go so far as to say that one could draw an analogy here with the behaviour of WMF staffers such as User:Kaldari; to what extent should we consider their pronouncements to be representative of the WMF's position? Malleus Fatuorum 00:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- From that username? Not at all. It's his personal username. WMF pronouncements are clearly made by clearly designated usernames, in almost every case, and are disclosed as official position, somehow. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 21:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- This would argue for the salience of my "principle" in the "Civility Enforcement" case, that Wikipedia and its administrator corps cannot tolerate criticism and therefore must remove critics, unfortunately. In the real world, every school board and every city government hearing knows that somebody is going to stand up in the "public comment" section and rip the administration---usually from a combination of personality quirk and public diligence; in the real world, politicians respect that such critics have an important role to play, in keeping public servants honest and responsive. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unblock. It's been years. We're not talking about giving her adminship or the checkuser tools here, just the ability to edit. If she starts breaking stuff we can always reblock. 28bytes (talk) 00:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, ok! People. Please listen. When this person left Wikipedia (April/May 2006), the WP:CANVASS policy did not even exist (it was created in October 2006). So if you left Wikipedia in April of 2006, have left it alone until recently and are just coming back in January of 2012 then you are probably not aware of the fact that something like that exist. So you do what people did back in the day, which is email people to get some attention going. Now, please keep in mind that it very much looks like Selina emailed a whole bunch of people more or less at random (or because they were around these parts) - including people which are opposing the request now.
If anything this is (unintentional) evidence for the fact that this user, who was banned in freaking 2006, did NOT sockpuppet or try to circumvent their ban in the meantime, or otherwise they would have been savvy enough to guess that this could backfire. It's like the opposite of how sock puppets get caught - there you people who are way too familiar with Wikipedia's policies and rules. Here's it's the opposite - the unfamiliarity shows that they actually didn't try to game the rules but stuck to their ban. And that's five freakin' years, it was sketchy enough when it happened, it's time for it to be removed. The unfamiliarity can be dealt with mentorship and anyway, it has generally been the case that WP:STANDARDOFFER applies (it has been used by far far far far less deserving accounts).
Now chill and don't be so ban happy.VolunteerMarek 00:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support - I will disclose that I am a WR member, though not in terribly good standing as I tend to tell them what I think of them along the same lines of how I tell people here. I even had no idea that Selina was the nominal WR head until a few weeks ago during the domain registration/expiration kerfuffle. So we have someone requesting a return from the Wiki/WR's dark days when the latter was viewed as the proverbial "wretched hive of scum and villainy". We've given far more rope to far worse people over the years, so I see little reason to oppose this other than personal enmity, i.e. Elkman above. Selina was last blocked by SlimVirgin, who had a short WR stint herself. Current users include the infamously banned (Thekohser, Peter Damian), the rightfully banned (Mbz1, Joehazelton, Wikipedians in quite good standing (Newyorkbrad, Mike Godwin). It is one big happpy dysfunctional melting pot...kinda like the Wikipedia itself. I think it is time for old grudges to be loosened. Just a bit. Tarc (talk) 00:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I used to be on WR. I left after my well-being was publicly and validly (as in, not idle or minor) threatened there by two people and no one was punished for it. (Disclaimer: I also left there six years ago. So I have no indication if they've changed for the better. I have to assume not, and I have no interest in finding out.) I wanted to believe it was a place where Wikipedia could be criticized, but, at least when I was there, it was merely a forum for the criminally insane and those who defended them because they too were kicked off Wikipedia. A common enemy, as it were. --Golbez (talk) 03:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- OK, I lol'ed at the juxtaposition of "I think it is time for old grudges to be loosened" and the "rightfully banned" in front of Mbz1. 28bytes (talk) 00:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- 28, the difference is that Selina is making IMO reasonable explanations of why she wishes to return and is not haranguing those who may have imposed blocks 5 years ago. Mbz1 holds up her so-called "voluntary block" like a martyr for a cause, and STILL, to this very minute continues to harass an admin that once blocked her. Tarc (talk) 01:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose - I was one of the (many, many) admins who blocked her. Seriously, look at her block log. She's guilty of just abot every misbehavior there is, including using sockpuppets to evade bans. I personally blocked her for vandalism, and again for posting personal information about another user and harassing Netscott. She was a troublemaker of the first order, and contributed almost nothing of value to offset her stupendously bad behavior. Keep her blocked indefinitely. Raul654 (talk) 00:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- And how long ago was that? I think there's a clear honesty in asking to come back as the same account, rather than just setting up a new one, as so many others do. Why penalise that honesty? Malleus Fatuorum 00:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- The problem with block logs, one of them at least, is that people just tend to go by the length and the comments made by the blocking administrators, and there's no link to whatever caused offence to the offended administrator. Are we just expected to take the word of our betters even when they're clearly bearing grudges and see an opportunity to get their own back? MalleusFatuorum 00:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- So let me get this straight -- you're arguing that her gigantic block log is not the result of her stupendously bad behavior (for which many diffs could be provided, I'm sure), but a conspiracy on the part of the 28(!) admins who blocked her? (Yes, I counted) Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Show me yours. Raul654 (talk) 23:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose - Attempting to come back from an Community Indef by Socking is not appropriate. I'll me more open to considering once a WP:STANDARDOFFER has been executed and they come back on the master account or register with ArbCom with an alternate name. Hasteur (talk) 00:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oh for fuck's sake. She didn't sock. Her old account was "Miss Selina Kyle", back in 2006. When she decided to come back 5 years later she made an account called "Mss. Selina Kyle". Some genius figured out that "Miss Selina Kyle" had a very similar name to "Mss. Selina Kyle" and made a SPI report and acted as if they discovered Diamonds In Sri Lanka. As soon as it was brought up she said "yes of course it's the same person". That's not socking that's a user forgetting what their account name was five freaking years ago. It is simply amazing how little common sense is being displayed in this discussion.VolunteerMarek 01:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Want to drop the asumption of bad faith and casual swearing? They were kicked out a while back. They socked and were found out. It lists in the master's log the sorted story. Based on this being the 2nd SOCK she was caught using I have low good faith on her behalf. It's called a community discussion for a reason Marek. Please ceace badgering every single "negative".Hasteur (talk) 01:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Want to stop playing the passive-aggressive card? I am honestly at a loss as how to explain this in simpler terms: she had an account called "Miss Selina Kyle". When she decided to return five years later she made an account called "Mss. Selina Kyle" and explicitly stated it was the same person. And then she was... "found out". Geeeeeee, who was the brilliant mind who put 2 and 2 together? That's just not socking unless you're one of those people who are incapable of comprehending that taking things TOO LITERALLY does not make you right, but rather simply foolish. It's a little like arguing that since, strictly speaking, the people who say that the earth is round are [226] wrong, then it must be flat! Either that or it was a bad-faithed SPI from the get go. Either way, not very good.
- And we are the community, and so we are discussing, no?VolunteerMarek 02:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Marek, please strike your comments to this entire thread. It has been nothing but a off topic repeating of the same arguments listed repeatedly and badgering-ly to people who oppose the point. 1. She was blocked in the past for various disruption. 2. During that block she socked. 3. At that point she was informed very clearly about what the socking rules were and how to go about regaining privileges. 4. Just before this thread was launched she created yet another account and started editing when she was Indef Banned and by one administrator "community banned". Having now received a personal email from the account in question attempting to encourage me to change my viewpoint on the exact same grounds I'm still disinclined to accept the reasoning. The admission of the account link was disclosed after a SPI was filed. I'd have more good faith if the link was disclosed as the first action of the account or if this request to start editing again had come from the original account, however I am having to judge this appeal somewhat by those advocating for it. Hasteur (talk) 13:15, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Want to drop the asumption of bad faith and casual swearing? They were kicked out a while back. They socked and were found out. It lists in the master's log the sorted story. Based on this being the 2nd SOCK she was caught using I have low good faith on her behalf. It's called a community discussion for a reason Marek. Please ceace badgering every single "negative".Hasteur (talk) 01:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Why is it "not appropriate"? Would it be better just to do it by setting up a new account? MalleusFatuorum 00:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- She needs to successfully complete the standard offer. Not wait the 6 months (or more) and then register a similar name and sheepishly acknowledge that it is a new sock. Standard offer does give her the ability to create a entirely new persona and register it with BASC. As above with Marek, seeing the initial account's long block log including a previous socking leaves me with little good faith on her behalf. I am in no way considering activities external to the community. Hasteur (talk) 01:32, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I was the "genius" who figured out the pretty much obvious similiarity in the account names after comment on Jimbo's page on something unrelated. At first I didn't really want to say that much on this but I really do think that some people are giving her a hard time, Users like Lir who made about 20 sockpuppets in three years were given unblock's for a little bit but Mistress Selina Kyle herself, who has only sockpuppeted one time since 2006 is still banned today. Yes people make mistakes and we can't deny she did by talking to and associating with Blu Aardvark but that is all in the past and she has redeemed herself over that by banning him on the Wikipedia Review. --Thebirdlover (talk) 01:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- yeah, ok I can understand that - though I still think filing that SPI was a mistake. Not because it was wrong per se, but simply because there's a lot of stupid people on Wikipedia and just the fact that someone has an SPI attached to their name - no matter how "technical" or "pure formality' it was - will enable that stupidity. Just next time, when considering some action, please try to take account of the likely response/feedback loop from the people who are too lazy too click on relevant diffs, nevermind actually bother to think about a situation a little.VolunteerMarek 02:49, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I was the "genius" who figured out the pretty much obvious similiarity in the account names after comment on Jimbo's page on something unrelated. At first I didn't really want to say that much on this but I really do think that some people are giving her a hard time, Users like Lir who made about 20 sockpuppets in three years were given unblock's for a little bit but Mistress Selina Kyle herself, who has only sockpuppeted one time since 2006 is still banned today. Yes people make mistakes and we can't deny she did by talking to and associating with Blu Aardvark but that is all in the past and she has redeemed herself over that by banning him on the Wikipedia Review. --Thebirdlover (talk) 01:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- She needs to successfully complete the standard offer. Not wait the 6 months (or more) and then register a similar name and sheepishly acknowledge that it is a new sock. Standard offer does give her the ability to create a entirely new persona and register it with BASC. As above with Marek, seeing the initial account's long block log including a previous socking leaves me with little good faith on her behalf. I am in no way considering activities external to the community. Hasteur (talk) 01:32, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oh for fuck's sake. She didn't sock. Her old account was "Miss Selina Kyle", back in 2006. When she decided to come back 5 years later she made an account called "Mss. Selina Kyle". Some genius figured out that "Miss Selina Kyle" had a very similar name to "Mss. Selina Kyle" and made a SPI report and acted as if they discovered Diamonds In Sri Lanka. As soon as it was brought up she said "yes of course it's the same person". That's not socking that's a user forgetting what their account name was five freaking years ago. It is simply amazing how little common sense is being displayed in this discussion.VolunteerMarek 01:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
-
SupportSwitched to Oppose5.5 years is a long time. If the intent is to cause trouble, returning to the same account would seem a poor strategy. The account will be under heavy scrutiny ad if re-offending occurs, the account will be re-indef'd in short order. If the strategy is to get banned again so as to claim some form of "wiki-martyrdom", then um, well, whatever.Manning (talk) 00:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)- Oppose - evidence of recent socking erased any good faith I may have had. Manning (talk) 00:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Support. Sure, why not? It's been over five years. People can change in that time, and unblocked accounts generally come under a lot of scrutiny so there's not a lot of chance of disruption. I am utterly unconvinced by arguments that returning under a virtually identical username is socking and this "once a criminal always a criminal" business is pathetic crap. Reyk YO! 01:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Good grief. 5.5 years blocked, maybe 5 years without "socking", and despite whatever the list says, no actual community ban? I'm unblocking, which seems both the reasonable thing to do as well as a very "safe" thing to do considering the fairly god number of people who will almost certainly be following her contribs. For the record: she did not contact me about this, but I did ask her about it when seeing this topic pop up on my watchlist... frankly I thought it was a joke, but apparently it isn't. --SB_Johnny talk 02:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- ...or maybe not, because she's apparently globally locked. --SB_Johnny talk 02:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- That was lucky for you. Your edit history of almost nothing since late 2010 and only having used your buttons on two days since late 2010, then you turn up here going to while consensus is being formed in a discussion and when there is looking like no consensus to unblock you attempted to unblock - the next report thread would have been requesting your dysopping. Youreallycan 09:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Has somebody found that "community ban decision" yet? In 2006 it was probably done on a secret list somewhere, but perhaps somebody will find it. ;-) --SB_Johnny talk 11:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think we have to do with several pages worth of block logs until Cabal clerks manage to find the official ban ruling from archives... :) jni (talk) 11:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I suppose searching for it on WR might find the leaked versions, but I'm not really interested enough to sift through the sillies. The point was that there doesn't seem to really be a ban in place, so she probably shouldn't be listed as banned, and this discussion should be reframed as whether to ban, rather than whether to unban. YMMV, of course. --SB_Johnny talk 15:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- SB_Johnny is far too busy adding remarks on WR to contribute to WP. Mathsci (talk) 09:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
-
- I'm sure WR will now review us negatively for failing to produce sufficient paperwork for banning obvious sockpuppeteer/vandal over five years ago. jni (talk) 11:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, some will, others will compare this particular block with other blocks involving people on the other side of the wikipolitical fence, and still others will wonder why the heck she wants to be unbanned.
The issue for me is that this has become just one more round of people demanding blocks band and checkuser tests as if they're calling for airstrikes or artillery. I suppose it's better than the much-more-commonplace exploding cigars and ricin-tipped umbrellas, but not by much. This cabal vs. cabal stuff isn't what I thought WP was about lo those many years ago when I signed up.
(And if you're really wondering why I spend very little time here anymore, perhaps I've just provided an indication.)--SB_Johnny talk 15:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, some will, others will compare this particular block with other blocks involving people on the other side of the wikipolitical fence, and still others will wonder why the heck she wants to be unbanned.
I'm um, not sure how this happened, but I am apparently not banned after all... i am... trés confused, after all the writing - I think I need a cup of tea and go to bed. Sorry for wasting anyone's time o_o --Mistress Selina Kyle 02:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, your block log says you're indef'd [227] but your post here is evidence that you aren't. There's a glitch somewhere. Nobody Ent 02:52, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, some weird glitch, see WP:AN. Sorry, Mistress Selina Kyle, but I have renewed the block pending the outcome of this discussion, because you are still not allowed to edit until the community decides otherwise. No comment on the merits of the unblock request. CharlieEchoTango (contact) 03:32, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support per WereSpielChequers, Reyk and others. (I also had a mail.) --JN466 03:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- That said, there's only a handful of people I would want 100% permabanned from Wikipedia without any possibility of reform, and Miss Selena Kyle isn't one of them. I have no problem with supporting an unblock. --Golbez (talk) 03:42, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support It's easy enough to create a new identity - if an editor wishes to return in apparent sincerity, complete with visible baggage, in full view of everybody after five years, why not let them prove themselves? The standard offer's always an alternative. Acroterion (talk) 04:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- 'Comment - Have you people not been reading the threads up above in which it is suggested that I be banned? Have you not heard that Wikipedia Review is where all of the "deeply homophobic discussion" takes place, to quote Prioryman (from whom I await a retraction and an apology)? And yet you want to un-ban Selina? Something isn't adding up here... Delicious carbuncle (talk) 04:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support unblock. If Selina deliberately causes disruption the block button is real close by. If she steps on a landmine from all the changes since 20-ought-six then she should be warned. I'm a member here and at WR, for the record. →StaniStani 04:27, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose per Raul654...no evidence demonstrates this editor has any intention of helping us create a neutral encyclopedia...highly circumspect commentary at Wikiepdia Review indicates nothing but malice for this website and its contributors.--MONGO 04:48, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support. This is just childish vindictiveness. Malleus Fatuorum 04:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose - and I will note she's sent me the same email, which I'm deleting. I do not appreciate someone I don't know sending me emails demanding I do something, especially if they're asking me to get admins to side with me, given my logs. Note that I've no idea who this person is, and I want no part of the potential politics involved. I'm opposing because I don't know who she is and I don't appreciate unsolicited emails. —Jeremy v^_^v Bori! 04:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support unblock. Blocks shouldn't be perpetuated where there's the slightest suspicion that there might be vindictive/vengeful/punitive reasons behind them. Writegeist (talk) 05:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support unblock with WP:STANDARDOFFER in mind. 5 years is long enough. Second chance and all of that. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus talk to me 06:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support unblock. While I have mixed feelings about WR, I don't think they are germane to this discussion. I think we should err on the side of gaining a potentially valuable contributor to the project. As was said above, if this person acts up it's pretty easy to re-block them. Mark Arsten (talk) 06:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose. No, no, no, no, and no. Also, no. I've been here long enough to remember the shitstorm she caused back then, User:Volunteer Marek's attempt at whitewashing notwithstanding, and I can't imagine a single thing she could contribute of value to Wikipedia. --Calton Talk 07:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose What Calton said. Y u no be Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 07:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Unblock, with a caveat I received an email from her regarding this, and I don't recall any connection to her. I'm curious to know just how she decided on who to canvas, given the fact that my username is in the 'Z' category. I didn't mind getting it, though. Aside from that worry, looking at her (sock's) edit history gives me the impression that she's either a sly mastermind, or utterly clueless. It all looks suspicious, but I will go with the latter. 5+ years is a heck of a long time on the internet. My concern is the culture shock; if she is unblocked, the first thing she should be looking at is a fresh newbie welcome message, with the works. - Zero1328 Talk? 07:48, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I also think the potential for culture shock is a reasonable concern, as mentioned above. She would need a mentor or at least someone to bring her up to date. Example: WP:CANVASS didn't even exist when she left Wikipedia.VolunteerMarek 07:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose. If I understand correctly, this user is chiefly responsible for Wikipedia Review. That brings with it at least two important issues. First, as the head administrator of that site, she is responsible for its contents. Other editors who participate there can say, "Sure, there's harassment and outings on WR, but they aren't my responsibility". This user cannot say that. She could delete any and all of it and ban the guilty parties. Instead, she maintains that material. Having the ability to fix and failing to do so makes her entirely responsible for the contents of WR. Second, it seems that many of the "support" !votes in this thread have come from people who are active on WR. There are long-standing problems with that site being used for canvassing Wikipedia discussions. A few editors here have been forthcoming in their affiliation with WR, but a number of others are failing to make disclosures. That raises concerns over whether this thread is being skewed by a faction. Wikipedia is a community based on trust and good faith. There's too much about this request which appears to involve bad faith activities to support it. I can't see how unbanning this user would improve Wikipedia. Will Beback talk 07:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Regarding assertions that "five years is enough time to be blocked": time has nothing to do with it. Ten years is too short a time to block someone who will hurt the project and ten minutes is too long to block someone who will help it. The six-month "standard offer" is intended as a way for blocked editors to go to sister projects and show they can be productive and follow community norms. It isn't a sabbatical which automatically resets all blocks after the passage of time. If the user is ready to participate in a constructive way in this community project she can show it by her deeds. Will Beback talk 12:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well gee Will, as an administrator of this site - does that mean that you are responsible for these terrible things? Just wondering. Wikipedia is a community based on trust and good faith Hello? — Ched : ? 12:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I am one of over 900 adminstrators on Wikipedia and I have no more authority to set the rules than any other of the millions of editors here. It is an entirely different situation at WR. MSK sets the rules and can enforce them without being overruled, so far as I am aware. If I owned the Wikipedia domain name then maybe you'd be partly right. Will Beback talk 12:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Trying to understand this. So are you suggesting that what someone does off wikipedia should be considered in their suitability to edit here? — Ched : ? 12:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support very reluctantly. I have very mixed feelings about this. MSK is clearly a leading figure in WR, a website that has a disproportionately destructive effect on Wikipedia ("a wretched hive of scum and villainy" indeed). Will Beback makes some important points above, which I agree with, about MSK's responsibility for maintaining this cesspit. MSK was community banned after receiving numerous blocks for block evasion, trolling, outing other Wikipedians, vandalism, personal attacks, incivility and violating 3RR. That said, the events in question happened many years ago and people do have the potential to change in that span of time. I'm very far from convinced that MSK subscribes to the goals of the project and their leading role in WR is worrying, but I'm aware that MSK will be very closely watched if unblocked. So I'm supporting an unblock on the understanding that MSK will effectively be on probation, with a low threshold for future blocks if they step out of line. Prioryman (talk) 08:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support unblock - Time has been served. Wikipedia needs to rid itself of the Guantanamo mentality of indeffing perceived enemies of the state without trial... The Bad Site is required reading, even if it shares many of the exact same deficiencies as the site it criticizes (the cloak of anonymity, lack of free speech, school yard politics, bully behavior, administrative heavy-handedness, intolerance of dissent, etc. etc. etc.) Carrite (talk) 08:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose User is already being argumentative on her talk page. After being told that requesting an immediate second unblock request while an AN/I discussion is ongoing is poor form, the user proceeded to argue that it was within the rules, as opposed to taking the advice - coming back from a community ban demands a certain amount of humility. I also see a lot of finger pointing and a distinct lack of accepting responsibility. I'm also admittedly suspicious of this user's motives due to their role at WR, which, while not explicitly anti-WP, is inhabited by users with such a sentiment. Noformation Talk 09:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose We simply don't need more troublesome editors to babysit who have never contributed anything at all towards building an encyclopedia (either here or in the Bad Site). jni (talk) 10:26, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I support an unblock: she was blocked close to six years ago...long before I was even an editor here: because of that incredibly long amount of time since the block, I see no harm in giving Mistress Selina Kyle a second chance. If she is disruptive (which I doubt considering the time passed), she will get reblocked; it she edits productively, we will benefit from her work. Acalamari 10:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose per jni and others above. Several above say if she causes disruption she can easily be blocked again, but I doubt it would be so easy in practice. Tom Harrison Talk 12:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Strong oppose: while 5 years is a lot, her previous block wasn't caused by immaturity. I see a lot of negative personal traits behind it and I'm not convinced that they can be mitigated just as time passes. Furthermore, don't forget: she socked right before making her current unblock request! While I can understand creating a sock for requesting an unblock and nothing else (though email should really be used instead if the blockee can't edit their talk page) - she went far beyond this, knowingly violating her ban. How can we trust her not to violate our policies if unblocked if she managed to demonstrate that her disregard to them remains the same as it was 5 years ago?! Max Semenik (talk) 12:15, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Switched from oppose to strong oppose, after corresponding with her privately I'm absolutely confident that she's an unrepentant troll. Max Semenik (talk) 14:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Can you provide more details (per wiki or email, insofar not confidential?) --Kim Bruning (talk) 09:56, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Switched from oppose to strong oppose, after corresponding with her privately I'm absolutely confident that she's an unrepentant troll. Max Semenik (talk) 14:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support unblock. So, Selina wants to start editing en.wp.org again, hey? What are Selina's motivations for asking for this? Lets assume the you know what. Her return will be very closely watched. If she's here to make positive contributions to the project, her return will be very closely watched, and zapped if it goes awry. If she's here not to make positive contributions to the project, her return will be very closely watched and zapped even sooner.--Shirt58 (talk) 12:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support after weighing all the arguments above it comes down to: Has Wikipedia changed substantially in the past six years, and have some of the "problem areas" for this editor been substantially changed, in some cases adopting the editor's positions? Facing the fact that some of the blocks would not take place under current policies and guidelines, I am forced to iterate that "draconian solutions do not work" and that the ban should be lifted. Collect (talk) 13:27, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose unblock: First, and most strongly, per Max Semenik's comments about her recent socking and use of the sock account for any purpose other than appealing her block. Second, and much more weakly, I also received an email from her. Since I've never dealt with her or any of her issues and since she obviously sent those emails out en masse from what has been said above, that contact was plain old garden-variety spam as far as I'm concerned, all considerations of CANVASS aside. — TransporterMan (TALK) 14:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Tentative support. Disclosure: I haven't been canvassed to comment here, but I have been editing long enough that I remember MSK from 2006. I distinctly remember her as a user who caused a fair amount of drama and wasn't great at working with others, and her indef block was arguably justified at the time. Having said that, it's been over five years now, and I'm willing to accept she might have changed and now be able to edit within our rules in a constructive manner. (The fact that she came back honestly identifying herself, rather than socking under a different name to avoid detection, is a positive I think.) It should be made clear, however, that she will be 'on probation' as it were, and if she fails to behave appropriately admins should not be hesitant to restore the indef block. Robofish (talk) 15:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose - low the standard of recent sockpuppet edits and the very disruptive history. Youreallycan 15:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose I have to go with the same rational used in other opposition: the combative nature on the user's talk page, socking while banned, and the LONG history of a blocks and overall poor judgement in the past. I know it['s been a number of years, but I think this will be more trouble that ir is worth if the user is unblocked. Wildthing61476 (talk) 15:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose User is under a full siteban. Since there's apparently no consensus to unban/unblock here, then her next step is an email to Arbcom. I do not support an unban due to recent socking. - Burpelson AFB✈ 16:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Can someone find and point us to the ban discussion? ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 17:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- There may not have been one. There was once language in the banning policy for "de facto" bans. This was removed at some point by some very intelligent people until a couple months ago when certain editors insisted that ban discussions were a "waste of time" and people should just slap the banned tag on blocked accounts. The language has subsequently been rewritten several times and resulted in gigantic threads at the BAN talk page where nobody can agree on exactly what a "De Facto" ban is, how to implement it and what language should be used to describe it. In other words, instead of a couple ban discussions per month at AN/I, we have many KB of argument at another page and a policy in perpetual limbo. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 19:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Can someone find and point us to the ban discussion? ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 17:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Question. So, seriously, what is she interested in editing? Because we have enough editors posturing in heated disputes like this. We'd hope she intends to return to something more constructive than that. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 17:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Well, I can't really speak for her, and she can't speak for herself either, but I'm guessing stuff like this [228] or related to this.VolunteerMarek 18:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support unblock at this point. If she hasn't socked for 5 years, but merely returned under a very-identifiable username, there's no reason not to consider the standard offer fulfilled. If there are problems, they can be handled the way they always are.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support Six years is enough time. She was blocked mainly because of her involvement with certain banned users who herself later banned from Wikipedia Review. My main concern though is MSK actions seems like she is so out of touch with the community by using practically 2006 tactics that many editors used back then but it's clearly unacceptable now, such as the emails. She was also kinda inactive from Wikipedia Review as well. I think with the right mentoring, and the reading of some guidelines she can become a productive editor. In worst case, just reban her and that's it. I highly doubt that the community will be "outraged" if she goes back to her previous behavior that got her blocked in the first place. And note I was there when the discussion to unblock her and another (now banned) editor took place, and I was one of the editors who discussed her ban soon after when her behavior was unchanged. I also put the final ban on the editor she was most involved with (Blu Aardvark) not long afterwords. Secret account 19:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Weak support. I'm not terribly confident that this is a good move, but I'm willing to WP:AGF that something has changed for the better in 5-6 years. Give that the current concerns are about trolling, I think that in case she is unblocked Ms. Kyle should try to focus on content including learning how to contribute according to current Wikipedia standards (e.g. how to format citations), and should try hard to avoid the kind of rhetoric-filled discussions that led to her indef block. Perhaps assigning a mentor to her would not be a bad idea either. Alas my wiki time is limited, so I can't volunteer for that job. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 20:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Weak Oppose(struck, see below) for now, subject to change (see later in this comment). 5 years is a long time and everyone that can demonstrate remorse and reform deserves another chance, however the argumentativeness and 'the rules say I can' lawyering on the user's talk page don't inspire much faith that the user is either remorseful of their own actions, or has committed to conducting themselves better as an editor. It should go without saying that when you want to be unblocked, you don't come in guns-blazing, making implications about maturity and shifting blame onto others. Selina would need to back down from the defiant attitude, address her own contributions to her ban without trying to dilute it with 'but everyone else was bad too' comments, and commit to investing time in familiarising herself with the way Wikipedia is now, in order to change my vote. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 22:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Weak Support based on usertalk discussion with Selina. She seems (at surface level, at least) to be interested in leaving the past behind and the banhammer is set at hair-trigger if she screws up. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 07:18, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Comment I've recieved an e-mail from this user, it goes as follows:
Hey could you please take a look at my talk page where I included all the details and links to why I think my ban was unfair and maybe comment on WP:ANI#Mistress_Selina_Kyle.27s_unblock_request if you support ? I can't talk there as I am banned thank you for any help - I am also the owner of Wikipedia Review which is the main reason I was banned as it allows free speech on Wikipedia issues and is sometimes controversial and they held me responsible for not more heavily censoring it, if you look at my talk page it's all on there thank you for any help
- So here I am. Don't know enough to lean either way, but this is an FYI. ResMar 00:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Oppose Current sockpuppetry [229]. Nobody Ent 01:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)- Oh for fuck sake, coming back under an almost identical user name with no attempt to evade detection is not socking. ReykYO! 01:05, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- "to circumvent a block, ban, or sanction" Nobody Ent 10:56, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oh for fuck sake, coming back under an almost identical user name with no attempt to evade detection is not socking. ReykYO! 01:05, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- support per Tech Symbiosis Nobody Ent 02:15, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Weak support. Don't let me down. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 02:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
-
Oppose. I've been around long enough to witness this user's shenanigans, and their recent behavior is not giving me a lot of confidence that they can be trusted. MSK is either (a) a troll, or (b) simply lacks the willingness and/or ability to work with others and follow our policies.szyslak (t) 02:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)- Changed to weak support per TechnoSymbiosis and his discussion with MSK on her talk page. While I don't think she was showing the most pleasant interaction style I've seen on WP, I do see (hopefully) genuine willingness to give this the old college try. However, as others have mentioned, if she hasn't changed and repeats the behavior that got her banned in the first place, she should be immediately rebanned. szyslak (t) 18:43, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose Scanning the user's talk page shows a style that is too combative to give confidence that an unblock would assist the community. Humility is not a requirement of an unblock, but we have enough of the opposite. Johnuniq (talk) 03:13, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support. The original block reason seems to be unclear and occurred in the days when administrators acted with less transparency than they do now. Also, it has been 5 1/2 years. Cla68 (talk) 04:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose for three reasons: The large block log, particularly on the her behaviour; the shouty responses on her own talk page (although there was only some of it, the all caps and the bold text that I've seen are unnecessary) and the fact that she still hasn't stated which articles in particular she wants to edit. Minima© (talk) 06:29, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support What harm can she do in the time it takes someone to reach for the block button?--Wehwalt (talk) 16:04, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support It has been over 5 years. Let her in and assume that she learned something --Guerillero My Talk 17:23, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Comment I would like to see at least 3 months of harmonious editing either at Commons or another WM project. I don't think it's too much to ask that the user actually demonstrate that they are serious. If the user does this, then I'm happy to change to support and I imagine many others will as well. Noformation Talk 01:13, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Support unblocking – Although some might have a distaste for a "revolving door" justice system, we shouldn't enact an "no exit [from prison]" justice system. It has been over five years. Some have pointed out that Selina is a part of the Wikipedia review. Although Selina plays an essential role as the WR's sysop and its main owner, Selina hasn't been recently involved in the WR until this month. See Talk:Wikipedia_Review#An_explanation_from_WR and this WR thread. Due to Selina's inactivity, the users assumed the worse. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 01:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- we shouldn't enact an "no exit [from prison]" justice system - to rebut one unsupported assertion with another one, yes, we should. If someone causes enough trouble to earn himself an indef - which is not a particularly easy thing to do - that's damn good evidence that he should not be allowed to edit, ever. Raul654 (talk) 01:27, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- I'm a little surprised to hear you say that, Raul. Indef is short for 'indefinite', not 'infinite'. Most indef blocks I've seen come with clearly stated criteria the subject can meet to be unblocked. I think 'go away and never ever come back' much rarer than you imply. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 03:42, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- we shouldn't enact an "no exit [from prison]" justice system - to rebut one unsupported assertion with another one, yes, we should. If someone causes enough trouble to earn himself an indef - which is not a particularly easy thing to do - that's damn good evidence that he should not be allowed to edit, ever. Raul654 (talk) 01:27, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Support per Wehwalt, AGF, and an expectation of paying domain registrations on time. Alarbus (talk) 03:11, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose I can't think of a single reason for someone with that block log to be unblocked, especially after returning through socking.—Kww(talk) 03:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose, as the socking incident is unacceptable. GoodDay (talk) 03:25, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose per the long log; SV usually got things right...Modernist (talk) 03:56, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Random break for convenience
- Support. Going for 5½ years with no socking, then returning with a seeming attempt at good faith editing and a request for unblock, is enough for me to say that we can give this editor a second chance. I don't see edits here that would be considered disruptive if they came from a user in good standing. Nyttend (talk) 04:03, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
User:101.109.87.219
101.109.87.219 (talk · contribs) may need a block. A look at their contributions will explain why. So far multiple articles affected. Voceditenore (talk) 14:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Blocked, and edits oversighted. Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:25, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Does anybody know how to contact the WMF (the oversighter may have already done so, but I want to make certain)? Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Emailed
emergencycommunications[at]wikimedia.org. Probably not the best contact point, but it's the only one I can think of. EDIT: Received an out-of-office message, so forwarded to communications. :/ Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:46, 31 January 2012 (UTC)- The emergency@ email gets distributed to several people, and I believe at the moment one of them has the OOO message in place. This unfortunately creates the impression that emergency@ is unmanned, which I don't think is the case. (Disclaimer - what the hell would I know?) Manning (talk) 03:59, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Emailed
- Does anybody know how to contact the WMF (the oversighter may have already done so, but I want to make certain)? Reaper Eternal (talk) 14:30, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Block request
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Can someone please block User:Russavia for their insulting personal attacks here? I can bear being accused of being a homophobe (in fact I was expecting it), but actually being called a homophobe is too much. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing the accusation of being a homophobe, only that your actions may be intepreted as such. That isn't an attack on you. Furthermore, it is not best form to ask for your opponent to be blocked when you are currently in a dispute against them. —Dark 06:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- My only "dispute" with Russavia is that they continue to make flagrant personal attacks. They are not simply saying that my actions could be interpreted as homophobia, they are saying (as in the edit summary for that diff) that it is homophobia. What do you think they mean by "calling a spade a spade"? Can someone please block? Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 11:54, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- The comments and edit-summary refer to the behaviour, not to the person. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Would WP:WQA not be the better place for this? Either way, you really shouldn't be asking for a block - ask for help/assistance to solve the problem instead. GiantSnowman 12:34, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- We have a user who just called another user a homophobe, using an edit summary of "this is why what you are doing is homophobic". If you can't see that that is seriously running afoul of WP:NPA, then you have no business commenting in AN/I discussions, honestly. Tarc (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Uh, suggesting WQA would surely show that I do feel it was inappropriate? Especially as I have been accused of something similar myself (which I ignored, rather than bring it to ANI). GiantSnowman 14:01, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- DC should be very careful of invoking a WP:BOOMERANG effect here given that, according to Russavia, DC was responsible for posting another editor's home address and phone number to an off-wiki forum in the middle of a deeply homophobic discussion. If that's the case, and I have no reason to doubt Russavia, it's a vile act of harassment from DC. I have no idea why this individual has not previously been banned. He certainly isn't contributing anything of value to the project and he needs to be held accountable for the way that he uses off-wiki forums to attack other editors. Prioryman (talk) 19:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- That's a pretty serious charge, and something we don't accept just because someone claims it. Any off-wiki harassment claims need to be backed up with evidence. Otherwise, those claims are sanctionable themselves. -- Atama頭 00:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Prioryman, I'm going to quote what you just said, to give you a chance to look over what Russavia said and consider whether you were paraphrasing accurately or (inadvertently) introducing brand new allegations of your own: "DC was responsible for posting another editor's home address and phone number to an off-wiki forum in the middle of a deeply homophobic discussion". Here's a diff of Russavia's statement. Bear in mind that Russavia claims to have a webcitation archive of the Wikipedia Review discussion in question. Perhaps you would like to consult that as well. Perhaps you would like to strike your inflammatory comments? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Did you link to the wrong comments? I presume [230] or [231] is what Prioryman is referring to. Nil Einne (talk) 04:53, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- To be absolutely clear, I'm referring to this statement by Russavia:
- Editors should know that DC posted Fae's home address and phone number on WR, on a thread which was discussing Fae in a manner which can only be construed by any reasonable person as harrassment, so their claim here that they are only interested in Fae's Wikipedia activities is absolute and clear BS. (Whilst the posts in question by DC on WR have conveniently been deleted, this does not mean that a webcitation copy wasn't conversely conveniently made before these posts were deleted by WR, so if DC is going to deny ever having done this, they might want to think very carefully before responding to this). [232]
- I've asked Russavia for more details and I hope he will provide me (in confidence, since it's not fit for posting here) the webcitation link verifying his statement. If it's not the case then obviously I'll apologise to DC, but if it is true then it needs to be dealt with - and really the only remedy here would be for DC to be banned, as such conduct would be completely unacceptable. The fact that DC has a history of harassing other editors off-wiki makes me inclined to believe Russavia. As for the harassment campaign being conducted against Fae, you only have to look at the top of Fae's user page. It's worth pointing out that DC started the thread on WR that has led to the harassment campaign, so he is not only deeply involved in this unsavoury business, he is its instigator. That in itself is worth considering, quite apart from the outing claims. Prioryman (talk) 08:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Prioryman has done a fine job of perpetuating the narrative that I am "harassing" editors, which he does here by claiming it as "fact" that I have "a history" of this (and making me not only a participant but the "instigator" of off-wiki "harassment"). They closely mirror the comments made by Fæ himself in response to his failed request for admin rights on Commons. If this were to be the case, it is surprising that Fæ has not, as I have repeatedly asked, filed any kind of dispute resolution in order that the matter may be addressed. Prioryman has a vested interest in having me sidelined in some way, because I expressed similar concerns regarding their previous account, which is under numerous ArbCom sanctions that do not seem to have been transferred to their current account. I have expressed concern about violations of those sanctions to ArbCom but have failed to get any satisfactory response so far. I await their apology, but request that they strike their comments while they await the archive that they have not yet consulted. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 19:26, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- To be absolutely clear, I'm referring to this statement by Russavia:
- Did you link to the wrong comments? I presume [230] or [231] is what Prioryman is referring to. Nil Einne (talk) 04:53, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- Prioryman, I'm going to quote what you just said, to give you a chance to look over what Russavia said and consider whether you were paraphrasing accurately or (inadvertently) introducing brand new allegations of your own: "DC was responsible for posting another editor's home address and phone number to an off-wiki forum in the middle of a deeply homophobic discussion". Here's a diff of Russavia's statement. Bear in mind that Russavia claims to have a webcitation archive of the Wikipedia Review discussion in question. Perhaps you would like to consult that as well. Perhaps you would like to strike your inflammatory comments? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 03:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- That's a pretty serious charge, and something we don't accept just because someone claims it. Any off-wiki harassment claims need to be backed up with evidence. Otherwise, those claims are sanctionable themselves. -- Atama頭 00:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- DC should be very careful of invoking a WP:BOOMERANG effect here given that, according to Russavia, DC was responsible for posting another editor's home address and phone number to an off-wiki forum in the middle of a deeply homophobic discussion. If that's the case, and I have no reason to doubt Russavia, it's a vile act of harassment from DC. I have no idea why this individual has not previously been banned. He certainly isn't contributing anything of value to the project and he needs to be held accountable for the way that he uses off-wiki forums to attack other editors. Prioryman (talk) 19:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Uh, suggesting WQA would surely show that I do feel it was inappropriate? Especially as I have been accused of something similar myself (which I ignored, rather than bring it to ANI). GiantSnowman 14:01, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- We have a user who just called another user a homophobe, using an edit summary of "this is why what you are doing is homophobic". If you can't see that that is seriously running afoul of WP:NPA, then you have no business commenting in AN/I discussions, honestly. Tarc (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- Would WP:WQA not be the better place for this? Either way, you really shouldn't be asking for a block - ask for help/assistance to solve the problem instead. GiantSnowman 12:34, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- The comments and edit-summary refer to the behaviour, not to the person. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
- My only "dispute" with Russavia is that they continue to make flagrant personal attacks. They are not simply saying that my actions could be interpreted as homophobia, they are saying (as in the edit summary for that diff) that it is homophobia. What do you think they mean by "calling a spade a spade"? Can someone please block? Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 11:54, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Note to DC -- you may claim that you are not a homophobe, and frankly, it is irrelevant if you are. You have clearly participated on WR in discussions on Fae which are often homophobic in nature, and in the above instance referenced above you clearly gave ammunition for some unknown participant/reader of that WR to engage in harassment on Fae. If you are not a homophobe, fine, but your willingness to associate with people who clearly are, and who are engaging in harassment, and your eagerness to divulge information on the harassee so that they can be further harassed (not 20-25 minutes after saying onwiki to the harassee that you are sorry they are being harassed), surely brings into doubt whether you are such inclined, or whether you are simply sympathetic to their cause. Either way, your conduct offwiki in contributing to harassment of Fae is crystal clear, and makes you as culpable as a person who does it onwiki. And for this you need to be held accountable. Y u no be Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 22:24, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- At least you are now open to the possibility that I might not be a homophobe, only someone who associates with homophobes - things are improving. Except that I don't think that contributors to Wikipedia Review are at all motivated by homophobia, despite the occasional insensitive comment. If Wikipedia Review were as you describe it, I would not be a participant there. I doubt that the current Wikipedia admins who contribute there appreciate being tarred with that brush either. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 04:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Prioryman, you stated above that Russavia was going to provide "the webcitation link verifying his statement" and "If it's not the case then obviously I'll apologise to DC". I assume that you have seen the archive of the WR discussion by now. Then you know that your statements were false. You said "DC was responsible for posting another editor's home address and phone number to an off-wiki forum in the middle of a deeply homophobic discussion". As you have seen, the "deeply homophobic discussion" is quite simply a fantasy. It does not exist even in Russavia's statement and you have created it here to perpetuate the "homophobia" defence of Fæ. Worse, you have deliberately conflated it with a number of unrelated things -- "banned user", campaign to get WMUK's charity status revoked, "blackmail threat" -- which are unrelated to me or my actions in an effort to have me banned. This is transparently self-serving to anyone who knows the full story of your history and our interactions, but you can fool some of the people some of the time. The only true part of your statement is that I posted publicly available WHOIS information without redacting the address and phone number that it contained. I should not have done that. That was an oversight on my part and I fully agreed with the redaction made by a WR mod. That WR thread was moved at my request to a non-public forum not to hide my actions, but for reasons related to Fæ's privacy. I would like you to strike your inflammatory statements now. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Delicious Carbuncle harassment and outing: block or ban proposal
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- I'm closing this ban proposal as "almost enacted." The WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior and clear WP:OUTING violations by User:Delicious carbuncle are simply appalling, as many of the participants in this discussion have noted. DC seems to have participated in an "ends justify the means" campaign to bring the alleged wrongdoing of another editor to light. Well, the ends don't justify the means here, and it is simply unconscionable to publicly post private information taken from an e-mail sent in presumed confidence, and further use that information to play detective in an attempt to "bring down" that editor. The only reason I am not closing the ban proposal as "enacted" is due to the well-reasoned and good faith opposes of a number of editors which pushes this into a "not-quite consensus" zone. So there will be no sanctions for Delicious Carbuncle at this time. However: it should be made crystal clear that repeated behavior of this nature will result in significant sanctions, most likely an indefinite block and/or community ban. (For the record, this was already closed once, but as there were objections to the close due to the closer being neither uninvolved in the discussion nor an admin, I am re-closing it independently.) 28bytes (talk) 23:36, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Note I'm not re-opening this, because it should be closed. However, the closer's remarks are inaccurate and amount to a "supervote". There is a clearly simply no consensus for action, it is not "almost enacted" because, if anything, the majority are opposing it. I agree DC ought to be a lot more careful, and I suspect if he isn't there will be further calls for action. But absolutely nothing was decided here.--Scott Mac 10:55, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
The facts, as far as I've been able to establish them, are as follows. Given the privacy issues I've avoided posting a few key links in the section below, but I do have them.
A banned user has been mounting a campaign on Wikipedia Review to get Wikimedia UK's charitable status revoked. In conjunction with that campaign, certain WR users have been focusing on WMUK's officers, including Fæ, who is a Director of WMUK. Delicious Carbuncle has been systematically using WR to harass Fæ, starting no fewer than six threads about him since November 2011. This kind of thing is typical for DC, who has targeted other editors in a similar fashion on other occasions. I have previously presented evidence to Arbcom about his activities (which is presumably why he is trying to dredge up off-topic issues to distract attention - another standard DC tactic).
On 26 December 2011, Fæ put himself forward for admin status on Wikimedia Commons. After Delicious Carbuncle started a WR thread about the RFA, it was heavily disrupted by sockpuppet accounts and users banned from en.wiki.
On 30 December, someone sent Fæ a blackmail threat. He was forced to withdraw his RFA. [Added - there is no evidence that the threat came from DC.]
On the same day at about 19:09, DC posted Fæ's phone number and home address on a new thread on WR at the URL http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=35978 . Fæ publicly noted this shortly afterwards. [233] DC's thread was deleted shortly by WR's administrator shortly after DC posted it. At the time of posting, DC was fully aware of the threat against Fæ, as he had posted about it on Commons only 20 minutes previously. [234]
DC is still continuing his campaign with an RFC on en.wiki directed against Fæ, with an accompanying thread on WR to rally the troops. Since DC started his campaign, Fæ's user talk page has seen repeated postings of personal attacks and homophobic slurs directed against him (see log and comment here for an example). This is a direct and predictable result of DC's campaign on WR.
Fæ has never published his home phone number or address in any context to do with Wikipedia or WMUK and it is not listed in the public telephone directory. DC has admitted that he obtained it from an online database. However, the information in question is not part of a current publicly accessible record, so he would have needed to use technical means to get around the privacy protection. protected by a privacy redaction, so DC had to obtain it from an historical copy of the record in question.
This is about as serious a breach of privacy as it's possible to get, short of physically stalking an editor. DC knew that Fæ had been threatened. Within minutes of publicly acknowledging that fact he obtained Fæ's private telephone number and home address and posted them to a forum where individuals make a habit of trying to "out" and harass Wikipedians. Given that the campaign against Fæ is being run via WR, there is good reason to believe that Fæ's harasser is a WR reader. The information that DC provided could have enabled the harasser to carry out his blackmail threat.
Posting another Wikipedian's personally identifying information without their permission is a serious breach of privacy at the best of times. When it's combined with the prior knowledge that the Wikipedian in question has been threatened on that same day, it has to be seen as not just reckless but actively malicious. Combine that with the ongoing campaign against Fæ and the word "vindictive" comes to mind.
This conduct is quite simply inexcusable. DC's action amounted to sticking up a sign on WR saying to Fæ's harasser, "here's where he lives, come and get him". Russavia is correct: DC needs to be held accountable for it. In my view, the only remedy that will fit the premeditated, malicious and egregious nature of DC's conduct is an indefinite block or community ban and I thus propose it. Prioryman (talk) 23:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not breaking my Wiki-absence to defend DC, who I think often does foolish and questionable things, in he service of whatever cause he has, but let me give a couple of facts from the Wikipedia Review thread. On WR, DC published an e-mail he'd received from "Ash" in March 2010. That email contained an personal email domain. DC also published the (publicly available) Whois? information for that e-mail domain, in order to show that it belonged to Ashley Van Haeften (who has publicly identified as Fae). Note, I make no comment on whether it was appropriate to publish the information. Unfortunately, the Whois? information not only contained the name, but also the address and phone number of the owner of the domain name. This information was redacted a little over an hour later by a WR mod (note they are not always as irresponsible as people here would wish to believe). Some pathetic "homophobic" remarks followed, made by two unrelated morons, and then a further post by DC stating (2 hours after his original) that he'd asked the mods to delete or hide the whole thread, because (he stated) he realised he should have redacted the information, even although it was in the public domain, and he'd never intended to make AVH a target of real life harassment. Now, let's be clear. I'm not condoning anything here. I'm just not clear what privacy was breached (it WAS all in the public domain, except perhaps for the domain name whiich DC had got from an email Ash had sent him - I've checked the Whois? myself, but I'm not posting any links here), and even what was posted seems to have been negligently done rather than maliciously. Now, has DC been "harassing"? I've not looked at the rest of the evidence here, so I'm not going to comment on that.--Scott Mac 00:17, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The fact that DC published a private email on a forum which is notorious for its harassment of WR editors, is grounds enough to question his motives. Did he have permission to post this email? No he didn't. That he then felt that he had to use that email, and information contained in it, to post information to WR, where it is known that Fae has been harassed via, that included a home phone number and home adress, is even more troublesome. Even DC acknowledges that he screwed up. However, this then led to actual harassment on Fae. DC is therefore ultimately responsible, for posting private correspondence without permission, and posting other private information without good reason. He should have foreseen what would have resulted, given that he was aware and acknowledged only 20 minutes previously, that Fae was being harassed, and also being threatened/blackmailed. Whilst he posted information on sites not controlled by WMF, he should have known that on-WMF project harassment was likely to occur, and it did. Therefore, I support an indefinite block or community ban as proposed. Y u no be Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 00:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- A disingenuous remark to say the least. DC did NOT publish a private email. He mentioned a domain name that was in the email. He then published the publicly available info contained in the WHOIS database for that domain. Fae/Ash has frequently complained of harassment yet has never provided proof of those episodes. Likewise, as Russavia mentioned above, Fae withdrew his RFA as a result of a "blackmail threat", though no proof of that threat was ever given. Coincidentally his withdrawal came at a time when what started out as a WP:SNOW in his favour turned into a snow in favour of rejection. On another point, it would perhaps be in DC's favour if the webcitation link was published here so all and sundry can see how "deeply homophobic" that thread was. Oh, I almost forgot. During Fae's abortive RFA Russavia appeared to be a vociferous flag bearer on Fae's behalf. It's not surprising that he's doing the same now, and using, well let's just say hyperbolic means to do so. -27.100.16.185 (talk) 15:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hello unknown editor. Of course, I place more credence in comments that come from actual logged-in editors, just to be sure you're not a banned miscreant. But I will comment on the comment that I was a flag bearer for Fae at his RfA on Commons. If one checks the RfA itself, I actually opposed Fae's RfA. I informed Fae why I opposed, and it had nothing to do with WR muckraking of issues. On a side note, his RfA on Commons was one of the most disgusting displays I have seen. Additionally, in my capacity as an admin on Commons, I also undid an indefinite block on an editor, by shortening it to two weeks for what I deemed to be harassment of Fae. I have stated numerous times that I will not stand for editorial harassment, and my actions relating to Fae on Commons have been driven by other's harassment, yet I have managed to stay neutral over the entire period. Even now, I am neutral, I have nothing against Delicious Carbuncle, but their harassment of Fae makes it impossible to simply stand by and ignore. DC's starting this RfA, came exactly after this on Commons, and after I posted this recommendation to the Community. DC has ignored the entire lot. He is using any WMF project he can to engage in harassment, and has no problem in cross-wikiiing this behaviour. It is impossible to separate his harassment of Fae on Commons from his harassment of Fae on enwp, because he has himself ignored "leaving things in Vegas" and is intent on causing as much disruption and grief for Fae as possible. And he is stooping to some pretty low tactics to ensure he is successful. We need to have ZERO tolerance for harassment, and this is why I am "supporting" Fae in this instance. Nothing more, nothing less. Have a nice day. Y u no be Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 16:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Appalling, appalling, appalling. I also Support the community ban proposal for blackmail, breach of confidence, and incitement to real-life harassment. Wikipolitics aside, willfully and directly endangering somebody's personal security is inexcusable. Shrigley (talk) 01:51, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- But, wikipolitics aside, there's no evidence of any of that. Sure, there was a posting of private communicator in a public (off-wiki) place - that behaviour may be sanctionable, and perhaps there's been what some may view as harassment. However, there's no evidence (or even credible allegation) of blackmail or incitement to real-life harassment. Had there been, it would be a police matter. Probably best to check he facts before making what may well be slanderous allegations about another person. Again, I'm not defending what has been done here but, really, lets not make stuff up.--Scott Mac 02:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think you might be mixing things up a bit. The threat, as I understand it, was not against Fæ himself but against Fæ's partner; along the lines of "if you persist with this RFA I'll contact your partner and do such-and-such". In order to make good on the threat, the harasser would have needed to know Fæ's home address. That's what makes this incident so serious; DC, fully knowing that Fæ had been threatened, posted the very information the harasser needed to carry out his threat. DC did not make the threat, but through his actions he facilitated the person who did. It is hard to believe he was completely unaware of the potential consequences of posting the contact information of someone whom he knew had been threatened by a third party. Prioryman (talk) 03:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not mixing anything up. Off Wiki, DC publicly posted information that Fae/Ash had sent privately to him. At the point of posting, he failed to redact information that contained an address (but THAT information that WAS publicly available). He asked for the information to be removed within a couple of hours, but he ought to have taken far more care, given the claim that Fae was subject to off-wiki threats. Now, whether that's sanction-able or not needs discussion - I express no opinion. But, there's seems to be an attempt (without any evidence) to suggest DC has been complicit in blackmail, real life threats, and off-wiki harassment. Now, if there is actually evidence of any of that, I suggest someone contacts law enforcement - and, if there's not, then discuss what's actually here.--Scott Mac 03:27, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think anyone's suggesting that DC has been complicit in blackmail. But he certainly has, through his actions, provided potential assistance to someone making real-life threats. He is also directly responsible for creating an environment in which Fæ has been subjected to weeks of homophobic harassment, through continual agitation on WR. Are you familiar with the practice of chumming - throwing blood and meat into the water to attract sharks? That's how DC uses WR - he chums it to stir up the users against a Wikipedian whom he dislikes. He's doing it now to Fæ and he's done it before to others. I note that the threads that he has started against Fæ are filled with homophobic comments from others, and I also note that he doesn't seem to have made any attempt to rein in their excesses. Prioryman (talk) 03:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- If I'm getting lost, it is because the charges keep changing here. I'm not sure how one is supposed to "rein in the excesses" of immature posters in a form. I suppose by asking for the thread to be killed or hidden? But he did just that. If there's a serious pattern of him having doing this, then that might need looked at. Has there been an RFC on this? That would be the starting point. That someone's actions might potentially allow a someone to do something is true of many things, but without intention all you have there is aggravated carelessness. Anyways, there needs to be a proper investigation and a right of reply, not an ANI lynch mob.--Scott Mac 03:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I have no problem supporting a community ban against DC. Editors like this are detrimental to the project and are easily replaced. Rklawton (talk) 03:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose - this is 90% bullshit plus 10% a sort-of-true hook to hang the bullshit on. The hysterical hyperbole, not to mention the slander and outright attacks - not backed by ANYTHING - would normally earn some people, like Prioryman and Shrigley (more for his insults at the RfC/U), a well deserved indef ban themselves. Prioryman's (who's here basically because he has an axe to grind) statement is textbook sleazy innuendo unsupported by any evidence (though I guess he claims that "he has it").VolunteerMarek 03:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oh and Prioryman, since " [Added - there is no evidence that the threat came from DC.]" why don't you do the right thing and then strike the whole damn sentence rather than leaving it there to create this "guilt by association". Seriously, this is some low tactics.VolunteerMarek 03:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- What's untrue? Did Fæ receive a threat? He says he did [235]. Did DC post Fæ's home address and phone number to WR? Nobody is disputing this and it was documented at the time [236]. Did DC know that Fæ was being harassed at the time? He acknowledged it on Commons shortly before posting Fæ's personal information [237]. Has DC been the author of multiple WR threads about Fæ over the last two months? Yes he has (I'm purposefully not linking them). Has that attention resulted in Fæ being harassed on Wikipedia with repeated homophobic attacks? Yes it has. The facts are clear and damning. Prioryman (talk) 04:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Again, since you admit yourself that there is no evidence linking DC to the threat, then remove your fucking slander. The fact that DC and Fae have/had disagreements is not news, nor is it irrelevant to the bullshit you're insinuating.
- And just to point out a specific point where you're lying your ass off and hoping nobody bothers to check you ask a question: Has that attention resulted in Fæ being harassed on Wikipedia with repeated homophobic attacks? and then you answer it yourself "Yes it has" - and then you link to ... Fae's userpage as if that proved anything. You have not shown a shred of evidence that whatever harassment Fae may have been subject to had ANYTHING to do with DC. I'm sure some idiots below will get snookered in by this low tactic. But it is still a low tactic.VolunteerMarek 04:42, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- What's untrue? Did Fæ receive a threat? He says he did [235]. Did DC post Fæ's home address and phone number to WR? Nobody is disputing this and it was documented at the time [236]. Did DC know that Fæ was being harassed at the time? He acknowledged it on Commons shortly before posting Fæ's personal information [237]. Has DC been the author of multiple WR threads about Fæ over the last two months? Yes he has (I'm purposefully not linking them). Has that attention resulted in Fæ being harassed on Wikipedia with repeated homophobic attacks? Yes it has. The facts are clear and damning. Prioryman (talk) 04:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Strong oppose. Firstly, no non-public information was posted. Secondly, Prioryman is not the best person to propose something like this, as his own clean start was beset by much the same problems as Fæ's, and DC asked arbcom some searching questions about it last July. I believe arbcom would acknowledge that neither clean start was handled brilliantly – neither by the editors concerned nor the committee itself – and that these kinds of "clean starts", initiated when an editor has disappeared (or while he is in the process of disappearing!) under a cloud, should not become a model to follow for Wikipedia. --JN466 03:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Are you saying it is acceptable to post personal information on an editor, solely because the information is available from an obscure WHOIS query? I would like to note that the query was only made possible due to an email, which has the presumption of confidentiality. —Dark 04:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Just to clarify this point, the information that DC posted is not available just by searching for Fæ's name or accounts. It could only be obtained by using the contents of a private email to identify an obscure domain name and using that to obtain past records of the registry concerned. It should be noted that the registry's current records do not publicise Fæ's contact details. DC deliberately circumvented the registry's privacy protections to get that information. Prioryman (talk) 04:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Nonsense. You can find the same information in one minute right now just by Googling Fæ's name, which he has disclosed as a director of Wikimedia UK. And the registry's current records still show all the personal details. Now I would not need to have said that if you had not made this false assertion. How about you delete yours and mine along with it? --JN466 04:51, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- And when you google the name (somebody's real name, not a username), you get slander, character assassination, and sexual images as top results, from WR and associates' sites (such as Kohs's column). Really disgusting how a website which supposedly champions BLP so readily ruins the lives and reputations of living people. Shrigley (talk) 05:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Nonsense. You can find the same information in one minute right now just by Googling Fæ's name, which he has disclosed as a director of Wikimedia UK. And the registry's current records still show all the personal details. Now I would not need to have said that if you had not made this false assertion. How about you delete yours and mine along with it? --JN466 04:51, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Just to clarify this point, the information that DC posted is not available just by searching for Fæ's name or accounts. It could only be obtained by using the contents of a private email to identify an obscure domain name and using that to obtain past records of the registry concerned. It should be noted that the registry's current records do not publicise Fæ's contact details. DC deliberately circumvented the registry's privacy protections to get that information. Prioryman (talk) 04:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support ban. Every person who uses WP and WR to carry out harassment should be banned, bar none. Binksternet (talk) 03:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- So the facts appear to be that DC used information from an email - personal correspondence not publicly available - to find information on a domain owned by Fae - publicly available but not publicly linked to Fae - and then published both the link between Fae and that previously-non-linked site and the personally-identifying contents of that link (not limited to his name, which was somewhat known, but including his home address and phone number) on a site where he knew Fae was being victimised. If this was absent-minded negligence, I find it no less dangerous than if it was active malice - in either case, DC's behavior is a threat to other editors, either because he lacks a safe level of discretion or because he intends harm. Given that, I would support a community ban of Delicious Carbuncle until such time as his judgment does not pose a threat to the safety of other editors. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 04:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose - All the evidence we need for "Fae == Ash" is found here and here. Exposing a fraudulent "clean start" should be rewarded with a barnstar, not a block. Tarc (talk) 04:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Tarc, this has nothing to do with who Fæ is. It's about DC's actions in posting Fæ's private contact information as admirably summarised by Fluffernutter above. Please address your comments to that issue. Prioryman (talk) 04:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I will address whatever I see fit, and you can keep your comments to yourself. You don't like DC,so you and your buddies drum up some half-truths and innuendo to remove an perceived wiki-opponent form the playing field. That's what's going on here, its what goes on here day in and day out, only the name change. Tarc (talk) 04:43, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The e-mail proved that the two users were the same, which is exactly what Fæ refused to acknowledge, against Wikipedia:CLEANSTART#Contentious_and_scrutinized_topics: "But if the old account came to community attention, or the topic is the subject of edit-wars and contentious editing, and especially if your old account was involved or your new account will be, then it may be seen as evading scrutiny not to disclose the old account." If Fæ had conceded right away that he had been editing as Ash previously, this thing would long since have been water under the bridge. --JN466 04:53, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Tarc et al, this has NOTHING to do with removing any sort of "opponent", it has to do with DC posting private correspondence and private information obtained by way of that correspondence on a non-wiki site for purposes which are actually irrelevant, but the posting of which led to on-wiki harassment of Fae. DC's actions in relation on enwp are indicative of the bad attitude that DC (and others amongst you) have in relation to thinking that harassment of editors on wiki is OK. The community is here to tell you, that it is NOT ok to harass editors. This request will, hopefully, demonstrate the consequences of this. Y u no be Russaviaლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 05:10, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- As with "the truth is the best defense when charged with libel" so is "you can't out someone who does not hide his personal information". There is no harassment; Fae/Ash has been a bad and disruptive presence in this project, and it is not disruptive to point that out. As noted above, all you're doing is ganging up to try to get rid of someone you don't like, and throwing around allegations of homophobia to make it all sound scarier than it actually is. You don't get to play the victim card when you actually aren't a victim of much of anything, end of story. Tarc (talk) 05:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- For the record, I'm completely uninvolved with any issues concerning Fae's editing, either here or on Commons. This isn't about trying to "get rid" of DC, it's about accountability for his gross misconduct. If anything, what you've said makes things even worse for DC; so according to you he put Fæ's physical safety at risk to advance an obscure "inside the beltway" bit of wikipolitics. That's a catastrophically warped judgement on DC's part. We don't need someone with that level of recklessness involved with the project. Prioryman (talk) 11:39, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- As with "the truth is the best defense when charged with libel" so is "you can't out someone who does not hide his personal information". There is no harassment; Fae/Ash has been a bad and disruptive presence in this project, and it is not disruptive to point that out. As noted above, all you're doing is ganging up to try to get rid of someone you don't like, and throwing around allegations of homophobia to make it all sound scarier than it actually is. You don't get to play the victim card when you actually aren't a victim of much of anything, end of story. Tarc (talk) 05:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Tarc et al, this has NOTHING to do with removing any sort of "opponent", it has to do with DC posting private correspondence and private information obtained by way of that correspondence on a non-wiki site for purposes which are actually irrelevant, but the posting of which led to on-wiki harassment of Fae. DC's actions in relation on enwp are indicative of the bad attitude that DC (and others amongst you) have in relation to thinking that harassment of editors on wiki is OK. The community is here to tell you, that it is NOT ok to harass editors. This request will, hopefully, demonstrate the consequences of this. Y u no be Russaviaლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 05:10, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Tarc, this has nothing to do with who Fæ is. It's about DC's actions in posting Fæ's private contact information as admirably summarised by Fluffernutter above. Please address your comments to that issue. Prioryman (talk) 04:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with fluffernutter's assessment of this issue - the publishing of personal information is unacceptable whether it was malicious or not. However, given the conduct of DC with regards to Fae, both here, on Commons and offwiki, the allegations of harrassment may not be far off the mark. DC, at the time of his WR post, seems aware that Fae has been threatened, yet decided to post the WHOIS information anyway which poses a potential safety risk. Therefore I must support a community ban on DC. At the very least, I believe DC must cease interactions with Fae. —Dark 04:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Um, what? WHOIS information is public.... --Enric Naval (talk) 12:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- My understanding is that the information in this case was not public and could only be accessed from a cached WHOIS query, as the live entry was redacted. But public or not, it's never acceptable to post someone's personal information without their consent and especially not when you know full well that they're being threatened. That's the central issue here. Prioryman (talk) 12:54, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- In any case, I do not believe Fae meant for the information to be made public on a forum such as WR, especially not in light of the threats made against him. DC showed an inexcusable lapse of judgement in posting the information, and seems to be too personally invested in issues concerning Fae. I do question his motive; he clearly did not act with any good intent when posting the info to WR. —Dark 11:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Um, what? WHOIS information is public.... --Enric Naval (talk) 12:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose ban or block. The "outing" information was simply volunteered by the "outed" person on the WMF sites on numerous occasions. This retaliatory proposal coming from another editor whose ArbCom-cloaked "clear start" turned out rather unclean is just the icing on the cake. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 12:27, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Clarification request: Scott Mac says "DC also published the (publicly available) Whois? information for that e-mail domain, in order to show that it belonged to Ashley Van Haeften." In what context was it necessary to show that the domain belonged to AVH? Was it meant to somehow prove the genuineness of the email?
- JN466 says "the registry's current records still show all the personal details." I just did a Whois search and the personal details are hidden by the customer number of a Contact Privacy Inc. client. This is the first time I've looked up Whois info. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong. Are you sure phone and address details for that domain name are public? Ah. Prioryman's just explained DC would have searched a cache. That's not public.
- Prioryman, the phone and address details are presently hidden when I look up Whois for Fae's domain. Were they hidden when DC posted them at WR? Or did the hiding of the details occur after DC's posting to WR?
- I'm still waiting for a clarification of DC's pretext for posting the Whois details at WR. (I understand the phone and address details were an oversight, but why was it necessary to prove the domain belonged to Fae? --Anthonyhcole (talk) 13:03, 29 January 2012 (UTC) Updated 17:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I've received an email asserting the phone number and address weren't hidden from Whois inquirers at the time DC posted the Whois details on WR.
- I'm still waiting for a clarification of DC's rationale for posting the Whois data. Was it necessary to prove Ash = Ashley/Fae? --Anthonyhcole (talk) 05:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think it should be unarguable that it is never appropriate to post another individual's personal information without permission, especially if it puts them at risk, whatever the rationale or "justification". It seems to me that DC was trying to gather as many lines of evidence as possible but lacked the judgement or common sense to see (or was just indifferent about) the inappropriateness of posting personal information, which he had reason to know would put his target in danger, would be a violation of privacy, and would be strictly prohibited by Wikipedia's harassment policy. Prioryman (talk) 08:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- The more I read about this, the less concerned I am about DC's behaviour. He seems to have been trying to establish the connection between Ash and Fae, due to worries about a dirty clean start. This does, indeed, seem to be a dirty clean start and needs to be addressed by the community. DC shouldn't have copied the whole Whois report to WR as evidence but, apparently, at the time, the Whois data was open. Be more careful in future, DC.
- Oppose. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ambivalent
- DC is only responsible for their own actions. If people are harassing Fae that is a matter for the law enforcement of his domicile.
It's always been my understanding Wikipedia dispute resolution/sanctions are limited in scope to on Wikipedia behavior. Am I mistaken?- Revealing phone number/address was an asshole move. But given the information Fae has made available it shouldn't be difficult to find.
- Per Whois#Criticism, those of us who a.) register our domains in our own names, and b.) respond to Wikipedia emails really should anticipate their information getting out. Nobody Ent 13:17, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sanctions are applicable to off-wiki behaviour in the specific case of privacy violations and harassment. From WP:OUTING#Off-wiki harassment: "As is the case with on-wiki harassment, off-wiki harassment can be grounds for blocking, and in extreme cases, banning. Off-wiki privacy violations shall be dealt with particularly severely." Editors have been blocked before for doing what DC has done, and in less extreme circumstances. As for phone number/address, as explained above Fae's Whois details are hidden behind a Contact Privacy Inc. entry; DC had to circumvent this to get the information. But saying in effect "it's easy to do" is not an excuse. It would be easy for me to pick up my steak knife and stab someone in the street, but nobody would say that I should escape the consequences merely because it was easy to do. Prioryman (talk) 13:24, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Your analogy is absurd, please stick to the realm of believable if you're going to continue this crusade, will you? As for Fae, perhaps he should have had a gander at WP:How to not get outed on Wikipedia. What this always comes around to, again, is Fae did not adhere to either the spirit or the letter of WP:CLEANSTART, and IMO picking at the strings that held his facade together is not really actionable. If there are people making threats or whatnot against Fae because his publicly and easily findable identity was discussed off-wiki, then that should be dealt with. But I do not believe that DC was one of those. Tarc (talk) 13:37, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sanctions are applicable to off-wiki behaviour in the specific case of privacy violations and harassment. From WP:OUTING#Off-wiki harassment: "As is the case with on-wiki harassment, off-wiki harassment can be grounds for blocking, and in extreme cases, banning. Off-wiki privacy violations shall be dealt with particularly severely." Editors have been blocked before for doing what DC has done, and in less extreme circumstances. As for phone number/address, as explained above Fae's Whois details are hidden behind a Contact Privacy Inc. entry; DC had to circumvent this to get the information. But saying in effect "it's easy to do" is not an excuse. It would be easy for me to pick up my steak knife and stab someone in the street, but nobody would say that I should escape the consequences merely because it was easy to do. Prioryman (talk) 13:24, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose Not only for the reason that draconian solutions do not work, but also because "deleting" an editor does not put the inconvenient facts which have come out regarding a possible weird misuse of "clean start" back into any bottle at all. And this particular action seems quite as egregious as the original "offense" indeed. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Strong oppose (Note: I am not an admin) in concurrence with nearly every other statement made in opposition. This seems to be devolving more towards "Fae is genderqueer, therefore any opposition to him or his actions is homophobic" (I've seen no evidence of it regarding the user being discussed) some poorly-thought out actions by DC (the public-domain Whois? lookup) used as a platform to stand a tower of BS on. St John Chrysostom view/my bias 14:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- What an astonishing conversation. For clarity. User:Ash, at a time when he was under scrutiny for his editing practices, starts claiming real life harassment and threats to his "family" as a consequence of his sexuality and involvement with wikipedia. He abandons the account for his "security." He immediately returns with a new account, and soon discloses his name, an odd decision for someone who felt they were under threat (that is, he formally and publicly attached his name to his editing here after he first complained he was at some kind of risk). His choice to publicly disclose his name has nothing to do with DC (or anyone else). That decision has made a variety of information about where he lives and so on publicly available to anyone who cares to look online. Following these disclosures and the resurrection of concerns about his editing here he, again, claims real life "threats." As in the first instance, there is no evidence for this (and the choice to make his full name unambiguously known was a strange one for someone actually afraid of some sort of retaliation). There is now a drumbeat to ban his chief scrutineer for... making his identity known and perhaps the disclosure of his address (which is, as i said, available to any competent internet user)? Just... fascinating.Bali ultimate (talk) 14:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Comment I'm not acquainted with either of the parties involved and have no particular axe to grind in this, but it doesn't seem particularly odd to me. Somebody can be motivated by the desire to protect themselves, and simultaneously by the desire to interact openly with others. Reconciling those priorities is tricky and the balance can shift from day to day. The fact that somebody has two conflicting priorities complicates things, but it's hardly unusual or dishonest. Or as Whitman put it: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes." --GenericBob (talk) 21:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Fluffernutter couldn't have said it better. Support community ban, even just posting the WHOIS details is in egregious violation of WP:OUTING. ~Crazytales (talk) 15:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Strongest support About time we did away with these enemies of the wiki. This man is absolutely against everything we stand for. 31.52.2.164 (talk) 15:15, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- strong meh. On one hand it's sort of a "get the messenger" attitude for something done off-wiki, and on the other hand, the community had it's chance to decline the whole Fae RfA thing knowing full well there were some questions in regards to previous ... ummm ... items. The whole thing sort of smacks of hunting for ghosts in the closet to me, and looking for someone to hang a "guilty" sign on. — Ched : ? 16:50, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- The first "on one hand" doesn't stand up, I'm afraid, since it's long-standing policy that off-wiki privacy violations are sanctionable; per WP:OUTING#Off-wiki harassment, "As is the case with on-wiki harassment, off-wiki harassment can be grounds for blocking, and in extreme cases, banning. Off-wiki privacy violations shall be dealt with particularly severely." Whatever Fae is claimed to have done, that's pure wikipolitics - it has no effect on anything outside Wikipedia and negligible effect within. On the other hand, DC exposed Fae to real-world physical threats by posting his personal information. He has no business whatsoever being "the messenger" for the personal information of an individual who he knew was being subjected to real-world harassment. That's not about wikipolitics - it's common decency and common sense not to engage in that sort of conduct. Wikipedia's harassment policy is explicit about this issue. There is no dispute about what DC did or what the policy says. Prioryman (talk) 18:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I support the proposal to ban, I'd prefer an RfC to that question. Perhaps straight to ArbCom is even better. I wish to also ask who controlled dispatching the bot to canvass a rather large contingent of editors who did not know they would be drawn as a party to an outing at least one wishes he had not been requested to see. I came in to the RfC with serious reservations at the overt outing that was in progress. I'm rather sick of such glaring affronts that challenge unambiguously clear policy for sport while fracturing the community for allowing it to proceed as consensus. Is it possible that we could reach a consensus that outing is not a problem. Of course not, so discussion is rather moot. My76Strat (talk) 18:25, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose per Scott, Marek and Tarc. I'm not saying that DC's behavior was appropriate or not sanctionable (no opinion on that matter as for now), but I solidly reject the notion that an indef community ban or block is warranted. SwarmX 18:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'll concede that point Swarm. A ban would be over the top and I'll clarify that my larger frustration is that a block wasn't already in place. I could accept an indef block providing a strong acknowledgement and renunciation was requisite to an unblock. Recently I have seen our policy flouted as if impotent. Even currently. My76Strat (talk) 18:39, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose this proposal: I think indef might be too much. If someone was to make a counter-proposal that was a matter of weeks or months, I'd support that Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 21:06, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Looking at the RfC and at the WR threads and at DC's conduct at and around both, it rapidly becomes clear that what is going on is nothing more than a campaign of harassment against Fae, dressed up as a reheated dispute about sourcing that has been dead for almost two years. Posting another editor's personal information, and repeatedly attempting to subject them to ridicule (or joining in with others ridiculing him)—regardless of motive (on which I will not speculate)—is not conduct that is conducive to building and maintaining an encyclopaedia. Until DC starts showing an interest in this encyclopaedia and drops this unhealthy obsession with one of its editors, I wholeheartedly endorse a block or community ban. HJ Mitchell Penny for your thoughts? 21:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Fae's position as the trustee and director of a charity mean that he is a person with a public role and is subject to scrutiny in relation to conduct linked to that role.
- Given this charity promotes Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects, then his conduct on WP and Commons is part of what can be appropriately scrutinised.
- WR is one of the natural places for that scrutiny to take place.
- Fae's avoidance of the RFC/U on the Ash account via the not very clean start less than a year before he took up his role with WMUK falls within the scope of appropriate public scrutiny.
- His refusal to admit that he is Ash sabotaged attempts at appropriate scrutiny.
- DC only posted the evidence on WR that Fae is Ash because of that sabotage of the public scrutiny.
- Appropriate public scrutiny off-Wikipedia is not appropriate evidence for a claim of harassment in relation to Wikipedia.
- The degree of support for various statements critical of Fae in the CFC/U shows that there is prima facie evidence for consensus that Fae's actions on Wikipedia need scrutiny.
- Given the consensus for scrutiny of Fae's history, then a claim that the creation of the RFC/U constitutes on-Wikipedia harassment is not substantiated.
- And, BTW, I originally did not support Bali Ultimate and DC's actions against the Fae ID. This can be see in my first post on Bali's talk page regarding Fae and my subsequent participation in the AN/I thread where the two accounts were linked where I was non-committal. My subsequent belief that Fae is not an appropriate person to remain a trustee director of WMUK or to be an admin on any Wikimedia project is because of a combination of the public scrutiny on WR and my own investigation of his actions including both his contributions to WP and what I regard as misleading evidence that Fae gave to a Joint Committee of the UK parliament when representing WMUK.--Peter cohen (talk) 22:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Peter, you and others who defend DC's actions are trying to justify them on the basis of pure wikipolitics. Let's be absolutely clear about this. Posting a person's name, home address and phone number without consent is not acceptable under any circumstances. It is especially not acceptable if the person in question is facing real-world threats, which DC knew full well. Seriously, it's bordering on depravity to argue that petty politics on Wikipedia justifies putting someone at risk of real-world physical harassment and harm. That flies in the face of common decency and it is strictly prohibited by our existing policy on harassment. Prioryman (talk) 22:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Prioryman, can you please cut the rampant hypocrisy here (you and others who defend DC's actions are trying to justify them on the basis of pure wikipolitics) - your whole proposal here and your and some of the others' conduct in this whole thread is a textbook example of abusing "wikipolitics" to achieve an outcome - to get someone you have an axe to grind/grudge against indef banned - which simply cannot be justified on legitimate grounds. You've been wikilawyering aspects of this across multiple pages, making innuendoes and insinuations which don't add up to crap.VolunteerMarek 02:27, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- (ec) Peter, that comment is misguided. The "scrutiny" on WR is nothing but harassment, and isn't even dressed up as legitimate. It sickens me that people who claim to care about writing an encyclopaedia would bully and ridicule a man who has done nothing to them, and seemingly for nothing more than sadistic entertainment. As to your claim that WR is the appropriate place for any sort of scrutiny, how exactly is a website populated largely by users who have been banned as a result of their conduct an appropriate place to scrutinise the website from which those users have been banned? Finally, and most importantly, what Fae does when he is not editing Wikipedia (including volunteer work for a charity, even a Wikipedia-related one) is none of Wikipedia's business. Your opinions on his suitability to be a charity trustee re not appropriate in this forum, and should be raised with Fae, the WMUK board, or the Charity Commission. Now, if you want to hold an RfC based on Fae'srecent actions on Wikipedia, please do, and know that I will do everything I can to facilitate constructive discussion in such a forum, but leave his non-Wikipedia (hat includes sister projects and chapter work) actions out of it. HJ MitchellPenny for your thoughts? 22:52, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- So, if you believe, that it is illegitimate to cite Fae's off-Wikipedia Wikipedia-related behaviour but have, in this same sub-topic, cited DC's off-WikipediaWikipedia-related behaviour. How many angels are on that pinhead?--Peter cohen (talk) 12:27, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- As to your claim that WR is the appropriate place for any sort of scrutiny, how exactly is a website populated largely by users who have been banned as a result of their conduct an appropriate place to scrutinise the website from which those users have been banned? - cut it out, that's just false. It's populated by all sort of people, from current admins, to ArbCom members to past and present WMF representatives. The only difference is that there you can speak without having to worry about everysingle of your words being scrutinized by bad faithed insano-s and professional battleground warriors, like Prioryman, looking for an excuse to get your ass banned. Well, actually that doesn't appear to be true either.VolunteerMarek 02:27, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Peter, you and others who defend DC's actions are trying to justify them on the basis of pure wikipolitics. Let's be absolutely clear about this. Posting a person's name, home address and phone number without consent is not acceptable under any circumstances. It is especially not acceptable if the person in question is facing real-world threats, which DC knew full well. Seriously, it's bordering on depravity to argue that petty politics on Wikipedia justifies putting someone at risk of real-world physical harassment and harm. That flies in the face of common decency and it is strictly prohibited by our existing policy on harassment. Prioryman (talk) 22:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Ban Prioryman, Russavia, and Shrigley for false accusations of homophobia and harrassment. Their claims of "harrassment" are insults to all editors who have been truly harrassed. During the Cirt RfC, Jayen466 had to endure similar accusations, and Prioryman, unfortunately, was also involved in that situation. Editors here need to understand that these kind of tactics are wrong, unnacceptable, and they should be held accountable for trying to use them to win a debate. Cla68 (talk) 22:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think it's been a long standing principle underlying WP:NPA that any accusations of racism, homophobia and similar odious aspects (and they are very odious - which is exactly why they need to be taken very seriously) HAVE TO be backed up by serious evidence and diffs or else the person making them gets blocked. Back in the day when Sandstein was active on WP:AE this implicit policy actually brought some sanity to the proceedings. Anyone making bullshit accusations of that nature found themselves promptly sanctioned. Same rule should be followed here, especially since the personal attacks around this topic have been so obnoxiously egregious.VolunteerMarek 02:27, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- If you want to ban me, please start a discussion, and I suggest a community ban discussion. Please note that I am familiar with the harassment that editors on WR have engaged in; being on Commons I was witness to the disgusting display at Fae's RfA there, and used my discretion as an admin to block one editor who I deemed to have been harassing Fae. As to evidence, I will not be supplying this to the peanut gallery, for reasons of privacy, respect, and policy (both here and on Commons. Y u no be Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 07:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Comment Looks like there's a strong consensus to block...someone. The only question is, who? More seriously, if WR wants to promote scrutiny and accountability, fine, but those things should apply to WR itself. 169.231.52.186 (talk) 02:52, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Strong Support – This sort of harassment is something, I hope, that Wikipedia will not tolerate. I've seen absolutely nothing above which justifies what was done, and the precedent in policy for this community ban is clear. It doesn't matter that Fæ chose at one point to allow his registrar to publish the address and telephone number it required of him to register a domain (it especially doesn't matter since you have to buy a proxy service in order to avoid doing so). Fæ did not choose to publish that address and telephone number on Wikipedia or on Wikipedia Review. For someone else to do so is inexcusable especially considering Fæ's stated he's been subject to off-line harassment. That doesn't automatically make Delicious Carbuncle an accomplice of that harassment, but it makes his judgment excrable. Please note that I take no notice here of accusations regarding his motivation or regarding Fæ's (failed) attempt at a clean start; they are wholly irrelevant. — madman 02:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Please describe how you feel that your Bot was misused to inadvertently increase visibility of this contravening debacle and will you implement any changes to afford that future notifications by your Bot imply you have done a cursory review to ensure no misappropriation? My76Strat (talk) 03:49, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I would not say my bot was misused. I saw a routine request for message delivery at Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 45#A bot notification request, checked the referenced talk page (your "cursory review" exactly) at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Fæ#Of note, it appeared that consensus had been reached, and I executed the request in a semi-automated fashion. This sort of message delivery is done all the time, though typically it's done using AWB; I took it as an opportunity to test a new framework I was writing. I will say that I meant for the configuration to use my account and not my bot account, but as the edits were flagged neither as bot edits nor minor edits, it did not seem like a big deal after the fact. And I was not aware of this AN/I thread if it existed at the time, nor was I aware of this incident (I haven't reviewed the RfC, but it doesn't seem relevant, regarding BLPs and improper citing, if I remember correctly). I hope that answers your questions. — madman 04:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Please describe how you feel that your Bot was misused to inadvertently increase visibility of this contravening debacle and will you implement any changes to afford that future notifications by your Bot imply you have done a cursory review to ensure no misappropriation? My76Strat (talk) 03:49, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Comment Some 19 people have thus far endorsed the view that the RFC that DC started is part of a scheme of harassment (Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Fæ#Outside_view_by_Russavia) -- only 1 person has endorsed the view of DC at the RFC. That is saying something, and this needs to be taken into account. Y u no be Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 07:38, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Madmen, My76Strat please note that over 35 people have so far endorsed the view that Ash quit under a cloud during (rather than, as he claimed "after") an RfC that was in progress, that at the time there were serious allegations regarding BLP sourcing issues (and BLP is something that Wikipedia takes very seriously - at least I hope so) in regard to his edits, and that if Ash and Fae are the same person then it was a big mistake on the part of the ArbCom to let him stand for RfA, and finally, that had he been straight up about his past, his RfA wouldn't have passed. This is the gist of DC's complaint and it seems that the vast majority at the RfC sees merit in it and supports it. And if it has merit it simply cannot be dismissed as "harassment", which here is being incorrectly used as "somebody I don't like pointed out that someone I like acted badly and broke the rules! How dare they!?!".VolunteerMarek 07:47, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- As I stated, that is wholly irrelevant in my opinion. Re-read my statement to see why. — madman 17:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support per Fluffernutter. Absolutely nothing justifies posting an editor's home phone and address publicly. This is absolutely beyond the pale. T. Canens (talk) 19:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- So what happened to "blocks are not punitive"? DC admitted above (at 15:04, 29 January 2012) that posting the entire WHOIS record was a judgment error on his behalf, even in the presumably legitimate context of trying to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the link between two Wikipedia accounts who engaged in similarly disputed behavior. Furthermore, DC's error was quickly rectified. Is there a reason to believe he would repeat that kind of action? ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 21:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- We have never had a rule that says bans are not punitive. T. Canens (talk) 21:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Bear in mind this isn't just an isolated incident; it's part of an ongoing and sustained campaign of harassment, that is itself part of a repeated and lengthy pattern of harassment of multiple editors. There's no reason to believe that he will desist from this behaviour, as it seems to be at the centre of what he does on/with Wikipedia. Banning DC is necessary for the protection of other editors, and it will send a signal that people who engage in such behaviour can't expect to remain members of this community. Prioryman (talk) 21:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm afraid it's just your word against his [238] that can be discussed on-wiki. Should you have "secret" evidence that is not allowed to be discussed on-wiki, please send it to ArbCom. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- There's a limit to what can be shared publicly, given the privacy concerns, as I'm sure you'll understand - but ArbCom are already aware of this and previous incidents. My purpose in bringing this here has been to give the community the opportunity to deal with it first. Given that it's a crystal clear example of an egregious, premeditated privacy violation, for which there's clear precedent for banning, it shouldn't be hard for us to agree on the solution. Prioryman (talk) 22:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Given that this is little different from the RfA itself, which was along the lines of "trust ArbCom, it has all the evidence and know best", I see little point in the community being asked to rubber stamp another decision made behind closed doors. ArbCom should just ban DC and get this over with. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 22:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- There's a limit to what can be shared publicly, given the privacy concerns, as I'm sure you'll understand - but ArbCom are already aware of this and previous incidents. My purpose in bringing this here has been to give the community the opportunity to deal with it first. Given that it's a crystal clear example of an egregious, premeditated privacy violation, for which there's clear precedent for banning, it shouldn't be hard for us to agree on the solution. Prioryman (talk) 22:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm afraid it's just your word against his [238] that can be discussed on-wiki. Should you have "secret" evidence that is not allowed to be discussed on-wiki, please send it to ArbCom. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- So what happened to "blocks are not punitive"? DC admitted above (at 15:04, 29 January 2012) that posting the entire WHOIS record was a judgment error on his behalf, even in the presumably legitimate context of trying to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the link between two Wikipedia accounts who engaged in similarly disputed behavior. Furthermore, DC's error was quickly rectified. Is there a reason to believe he would repeat that kind of action? ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 21:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Comment There is a sense in which what DC has been up to here is simply doing some "due diligence" on the community's behalf regarding a somewhat powerful representative of the community (since he speaks to parliamentary committees and all). Due diligence is never much prettier than sausage making, but you wouldn't want to buy a house without checking the crawlspaces for asbestos or raccoon poo. DC's approach certainly seems to have a aggressive element to it, but since Fae (& co.) do seem to be rather disposed towards hiding anything that remotely qualifies a dirty laundry, a non-aggressive approach probably would never work. While the good folks in the "hasten the day" party at WR might give me some grief for saying so, I do think it's probably better for WP in the long run if this sort of thing is done "in house", and if you're going to do it in house, you need people like DC who (for whatever reason) seem predisposed to do so. That's particularly true in this case because it's fairly well known that there will be an exposé in the (very much mainstream) press about Fae fairly soon. --SB_Johnny talk 22:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support per Fluffernutter. If Delicious Carbuncle had followed up their mistake in posting Fae's home phone number on Wikipedia Review by quietly dropping the case then I'd have been inclined to accept it as yet another reason why Wikipedia Review is to be avoided. But running an RFC on a gay editor whilst simultaneously campaigning against them on a site that allows Homophobia, and doing so after you've posted their phone number seems to me in breach of our policies on Outing and Canvassing. ϢereSpielChequers 22:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose per Peter cohen. Well said, Peter. As an observation, in this discussion editors are using the word "homophobia" to draw fire away from Fae and back at Delicious Carbuncle. Homophobia is not the motivation behind Fae's user RFC. ThemFromSpace 04:13, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm seeing a lot of attempts here to distract attention away from the main issue here. Forget about the RFC. There are three key facts here, none of which are under dispute: the privacy violation happened, it was not accidental and it was done in the full knowledge that Fae was under off-wiki threat at the time. Wikipedia's harassment policy does not recognise any justifications for privacy violations. For those tempted to excuse what DC has done, ask yourself this: if you were being harassed by someone off-wiki, would you be happy if someone posted your name, home address and phone number to a forum whose participants have a history of harassing people? Prioryman (talk) 05:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose: DC was acting in response to Fae covering up his previous account at Ash. The Ash account having come under scrutiny for bad conduct. DC should be reprimanded for his methods, but ban/block is a drastic overreaction. – Lionel (talk) 06:23, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose ban on balance, block is superfluous now. This is a tough one, especially given Fluffermutter's persuasive rationale. That the two accounts are linked seems proven beyond reasonable doubt using strictly on-wiki and chapter links, by information that an editor chose to voluntarily disclose in public fora. That the editor left under a cloud (open RFC/U) is apparent, and RTV covers those eventualities. Now it seems that a vanished editor has returned and obtained adminship, and has now returned to the problematic areas which formed the original cloud - thus, the vanishment is now moot, and the premise for granting adminship is legitimately called into question. I also accept that at the time of disclosure, personally identifying information was available from a simple WHOIS report. That is all public information, but there are two possibly aggravatig factors left. The first is the tenor of the site where the data was made available and the tendency of that site to enable homophobia - and whether DC intended to promote a hostile attitude based on homphobia, as opposed to just disliking an editor. I think that WR is vastly improved from a few years ago, but I'm still not a fan and like any forum, no individual contributor there is representative of all the others. I've seen no indication that DC has pursued this case as part of a general homophobic attitude. Much more important is the issue of disclosure of private information, namely the domain name used in an email address, which led to publicly available personal information. If this address was obtained through deceptive means, that is a huge problem. If it was obtained through use of the MediaWiki Special:EmailUser interface, well, I believe all the disclaimers are in place. I would personally hold in strict confidence the content of any email I personally receive through the interface, but I do accept that anytime I send an email, those contents are beyond my control. If anything, we should change the interface for entering your email address to ask you "are you that fucking stupid?" when people decide to use an identifying email address. For me, this is not much different than registering with one's real name. I frown on thia, and can't readily envision a situation where I would publicly disclose informationm I received privately myself - but it was information entered on a website which does clearly state that your email address will be revealed, wasn't it? Franamax (talk) 07:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Regarding visibility of the email address, I just did a Google search for Ashley Van Haeften and the email address appeared in the snippet view of the 7th result. So, that's fairly public. I guess Whois was a more reliable source than that genealogy site for connecting the domain name with Ashley. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 07:40, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I'm afraid you've missed a key point that I emphasised in my original post. At the time that he posted Fae's home address and phone number, DC was fully aware, and had acknowledged only 20 minutes earlier, that Fae was being threatened off-wiki. DC's posting delivered Fae's physical location up to the harasser. That's what makes this incident so egregious - the absolute disregard DC showed for Fae's physical safety. This was not just an intrusion - he put someone in physical danger for the sake of some petty wikipolitics. Could you address that issue, please? Prioryman (talk) 08:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- What's the saying about "never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity"? I agree it was a serious error. However I can understand the thought process that if the information is available with a single click anyway, it makes no difference ro reproduce it (which betrays a flawed understanding of how web crawling and archiving works). Myself, I would contact the other person privately and ask if they were sure they wanted that information public, but I don't have a WR account either. Franamax (talk) 21:03, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- How can it be an "error" if he had to go out and search for this information in the first place? It wasn't disclosed to him. I'm frankly irritated by the way some people seem to be describing this as an "error" or "mistake". It was nothing of the sort. It was a premeditated act. He went out looking for this information, found it and posted it. That was entirely intentional. He's described it as an "oversight" but that's merely a justification for an unjustifiable act. Prioryman (talk) 21:11, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- What's the saying about "never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity"? I agree it was a serious error. However I can understand the thought process that if the information is available with a single click anyway, it makes no difference ro reproduce it (which betrays a flawed understanding of how web crawling and archiving works). Myself, I would contact the other person privately and ask if they were sure they wanted that information public, but I don't have a WR account either. Franamax (talk) 21:03, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support: even if the intentions are good, even if the information is available off-wiki, these are no excuses for outing; the policy is pretty explicit on this. There is no recourse for someone who chooses to publish such information, especially if they are cognizant of the fact it may facilitate homophobic/transphobic harassment. Sceptre (talk) 12:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- However the "outing" (i.e. revealing the real name) was done by the person themself, on the website of an offical WMF chapter, so to say the information is off-wiki is not necessarily true. It's a grey area at best. That's distinct from revealing the address information, which I address just above. Franamax (talk) 21:07, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Strong oppose of ban/block. There is no direct evidence of harrassment, as confused with trying to show that a person is socking as 2 different WP usernames (Ash/Fae) and perhaps lying that those usernames are not the same person. I did not see enough evidence of harrassment for "homophobic" whatever, and the link to a comment of "You're gonna burn in this world and the next" (on his talk-page: oldid=473666355) does not mean "homophobic" because fires of Hell could be for extreme cases of lying or "bearing false witness". More evidence would be needed to prove malicious intent. -Wikid77 (talk) 16:32, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Delicious Carbuncle proposal two
It seems like there's not a consensus for the indeff block, though there is consensus that DC has engaged in wrong-doing. Therefore, I'll counterpropose a one-month block and an interaction ban with Fae and other related editors Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 22:58, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Question: You are proposing a one-month block for Prioryman, right? I would support that, because to try to divert attention from the Fae RfC by using an ad hominem attack against DC is beneath contempt and should not be tolerated. Remember, the same thing was attempted against Jayen466 during the Cirt RfC. Cla68 (talk) 23:07, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- As you know perfectly well, I'm not involved in any capacity in the RfC. Jayen466 participated in one of DC's campaigns of harassment and it's regrettable that the Arbcom didn't deal with DC at the time; I felt then that unless he was reined in he would continue and escalate, as has in fact happened. The problem is that DC is a serial harasser; he mounts lengthy campaigns against other editors, rabble-rousing on WR for months on end. This privacy violation is just the latest of a series of problems with this editor. His main contribution to Wikipedia is a steady stream of poison and bile against other editors, turning people against each other and wearing down his targets. For him, everything is a WP:BATTLEGROUND. We do not need someone like this in the community, which is why I proposed a ban. A one month block is nothing more than a wrist-slap for an egregious and wilful privacy violation from an individual who has a history of destructive and reckless behaviour. Wikipedia's harassment policy is explicit that violations of this sort will be dealt with "particularly severely" (WP:OUTING#Off-wiki harassment). If this is not dealt with permanently there'll be more AN/I threads in six months or a year's time about yet another victim of his campaigns. Prioryman (talk) 23:16, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- (ec)I'm focusing on DC at the moment...but since Prioryman can't get along with DC, he should be included with "other related editors" and interaction-banned with DC. And Prioryman, the reason I suggested a one-month block is that there doesn't seem to be consensus for something stronger Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 23:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- I don't have any dealings with DC. However, he has involved himself unilaterally in my affairs on a number of occasions, so I would welcome an interaction ban with him, as I certainly don't have any wish to have him anywhere near me. I appreciate where you're coming from - my concern is that a weak sanction would be little more use than no sanction at all. It would have to be far longer than a mere four weeks to have any significant effect. A year, perhaps. Prioryman (talk) 23:22, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support one month block for Prioryman. The personal attacks and battleground behavior alone justify it, if not more. I do think that an interaction ban between Fae and DC is within the realm of "reasonable" so if someone proposes that separately I might support (I would actually like to hear from Fae himself on such a proposal).VolunteerMarek 02:32, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support one-month block and interaction ban on DCarbuncle vis a vis Fae pending RfC St John Chrysostom view/my bias 21:23, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Misleading statements and suppression of evidence
- 27.100.16.185 (talk · contribs), in rebuttal of Prioryman's statement above, earlier posted (and edit warred over):
- Total rubbish. All the information is available without any nefarious access to caches etc. Simple google ... and the first entry on the first page is ... All done without knowing the domain name in advance, or using any information that isn't public and well-known. -27.100.16.185 (talk) 11:50 am, Today (UTC−5)
As the search term that was in the first (...) wasn't terribly obvious, I can understand redacting the information. However, to characterize the edit as vandalism or harassment is disingenuous at best. Totally removing evidence relative to the discussion of a possible ban of an editor, and not being precisely honest about the content of the redaction, is irresponsible. It also turns the discussion into a kangaroo court yet another WIki-22: if an editor states DC didn't reveal information that wasn't readily available, the statement is dismissed as not verifiable; if an editor demonstrates that it is readily available, it's revdel'd and the editor is blocked. Nobody Ent 19:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
Interaction ban proposal
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
As someone who has seen good work from DC and Fae in the past, this seems like a ridiculous circus. I did some reading on the back history last night, and it is clear that this conflict has gone on for a very long time, and while it came out of two editors both trying to to the right thing, rapidly became one seeking sanctions against the other, and the resulting arguments being interpreted as personal attacks on both sides, and so on and so forht in the usual pattern. Therefore I propose:
Delicious Carbuncle and Fae indefinitely prohibited from interacting.
I feel this would be a considerable benefit to the project. Rich Farmbrough, 17:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
17:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support - Speaking from personal experience, I can tell you that interaction bans do work - provided they are fully embraced and honored. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hopefully this won't be necessary after the conclusion of the RfC/U, and instituting the interaction ban before is detrimental to normal WP:DR processes. I for one would like to see first what ArbCom decides in a similar case where a Wikipedia editor has decided to investigate the identity of another. In the honored ArbCom tradition, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/TimidGuy ban appeal/Proposed decision keeps getting postponed. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 22:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- In the TimidGuy case, which involves me, there was no investigation and no outing information was posted publicly. Will Beback talk 22:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- I stand corrected. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 22:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- In the TimidGuy case, which involves me, there was no investigation and no outing information was posted publicly. Will Beback talk 22:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- That's a good point (about the DR process) but I can't see these editors kissing and making up. ArbCom is not supposed to set precedent, although it seems nobody uses them for anything else much. Rich Farmbrough, 22:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
- Given that they sometimes pass principles which are not obviously found anywhere in Wikipedia policies, this is certainly one of their powers in practice. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 22:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- That's a good point (about the DR process) but I can't see these editors kissing and making up. ArbCom is not supposed to set precedent, although it seems nobody uses them for anything else much. Rich Farmbrough, 22:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC).
- Oppose - I do not like the very concept of the wikipedia "interaction ban", and will always oppose these things when the call comes. Tarc (talk) 22:40, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose - this is just the end of the proposal line - indef - no support - three months then - no support - a week then - no support - what about an interaction ban then.. I support interaction bans only if the users clearly need to be kept apart, which doesn't seem the case here, or if one of the users or both are requesting it themselves as a last resort , which also doesn't seem the case here. - Youreallycan 22:44, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
- Oppose until the RFC is over. This feels like "silence the critic" more than "lets protect the project and its editors" --Guerillero My Talk 05:40, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Support: High time, too Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 05:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Conditionally support interaction ban as proposed, pending outcome of RfC. St John Chrysostom view/my bias 21:26, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Personal information about User:Fæ
Could people please refrain from publishing methods or results of their exploratory searches to find personal information about me? If you try hard enough you can find my Mother's home address, her email, her phone number and her photograph. Proving you or others are smart enough to find details about my personal life is not the point being made here, the question is how such information is used. Extended internet searching and minor detective work can find a wealth of personal and professional information about me, as demonstrated by an old copy of my CV being used for public ridicule in yet another Wikipedia Review discussion that Delicious carbuncle has created about me. This does not make it right to deliberately re-publish these details immediately after seeing a threat against me in a forum that you know that the person making the threat (based on timing and choice of name) must be following. Even worse is to then republish the full details of the threats as part of the same ridicule.
You all know that me and my husband are being harassed with homophobic attacks, evidence from our own Wikimedia projects of this happening has been put forward of this by others. In my opinion anyone using ANI to provide an effective cook book of "how to intimidate User:Fæ" is crossing the line.
Please be aware of the fact that repeated Google searches, and then viewing the related websites, increase the ranking of this personal information, so statements about what appears where on the first page of a Google search become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Thank you. --Fæ (talk) 12:05, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Request to un-archive
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- Request to un-archive The summary misrepresents my request for avoiding the creation of an effective cook book of intimidation. There is no need to repeat the content of threats or repeat outing information on ANI in order to have such a discussion. Fæ (talk) 12:59, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Any misrepresentation was unintentional; I have changed my summary to a direct quote. Nobody Ent 13:04, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Request to un-archive The discussion can be held without requiring repeated evidence of how "easy" the personal information is to get hold of. This was never the issue as precisely made clear in my request above "Personal information about User:Fæ". To close down community discussion based on that same request is excessive. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 13:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Comment - Fæ, I have urged you to follow dispute resolution processes if you feel that I am harassing you, a narrative you started as User:Ash. Although it is specifically prohibited in WP:NPA, you appear to have no qualms about making unsubstantiated allegations. Please file an RFC/U so that I may defend myself. It is clear that many in the community would support you, even if there is no appetite for a ban at the moment. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I do not believe I have made any unsubstantiated allegations against you since my clean start 21 months ago. In particular I have never claimed you are homophobic. Please provide a few diffs if I am mistaken. Anyone who reviews my contributions can confirm that I have actually taken care to avoid interaction with you. Being forced to reply here is a rare exception. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:47, 31 January 2012 (UTC)- You must have a very selective memory then, Fæ. Have you forgotten this:"How strange to see Delicious carbuncle and Bali ultimate turn up so promptly here and turning this thread to be all about me and about Commons; particularly considering both these accounts have a history of blocks on Commons for harassing me there"? You made that comment here on ANI last week in a discussion started by Baseball Bugs because of comments that you made about someone with whom you had a dispute on Commons. Speaking of Commons, do you recall this thread that you started on the administrator's board to attack me there? Or the comments you made in your failed Commons RfA? Your inability to represent the situation accurately continues unabated, it seems. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:13, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I was referring to Wikipedia. You were blocked on Commons for your harassment there, so that hardly seems to be "unsubstantiated", I think most readers would consider receiving a block for intimidation and harassment being "substantiated". Thanks Fæ (talk) 15:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)- Yes, you do appear to want to compartmentalize your actions while making every effort to conflate my actions wherever they may occur. I was not blocked on Commons for "intimidation and harassment", I was blocked for connecting your prior account -- User:Ash -- with your current account during a discussion about unwarranted revdeletions made to contributions by User:Bali ultimate. I was unblocked very quickly by the blocking admin. As has already been pointed out by others, you self-identified on Commons using both your old and new accounts, so the entire episode is puzzling, to say the least. When I say "unsubstantiated allegations", it is precisely the type of misleading and demonstrably false statement you have just made. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:31, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Given the way commons is run, getting blocked there is almost a badge of honor. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 15:33, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry, then I misunderstood the reason for your block on Commons. As a personal request, could you please explain what you would find an acceptable outcome here to cease creating any more threads about me off-wiki where people are posting my professional details and that of my civil parter while making allegations that appear to be of adultery, paedophilia, fraud and repeating the details of threats against me made elsewhere? I am sure you have no deliberate intention of harassing me, but these seem to be the facts of what is happening based on my reading of the material. My question is genuine as I am frightened and could do with your help to make this end. --Fæ (talk) 15:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- The reason I was blocked is that I raised issues that they didn't want to address. As for you and DC, you need to leave each other alone. At present I'm not very impressed by either of you. He should probably be suspended for outing. Also, you need to resign your adminships, but that's another story. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 16:03, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- My question was for Delicious carbuncle, sorry if the indenting was confusing. --Fæ (talk) 16:06, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Understood. And my (revised) comment above still stands. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 16:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Baseball Bugs, please do not do your usual ANI routine here, in recognition of the seriousness of the matters being discussed. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:27, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Posting one's own personal information on the internet is foolish. Posting someone else's is evil. And admins who hide their past to gain adminship shouldn't be admins. Any further questions? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 16:31, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Two questions, actually. First question - is re-posting someone's information that has already foolishly been posted on the internet by that person foolish, evil, or something else? Second question - do you have any self-control whatsoever? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, it is evil. The good thing would be to gently caution someone against posting their personal info. Spreading it around is evil. And, yes, I have a great deal of self-control. How's about you? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Two questions, actually. First question - is re-posting someone's information that has already foolishly been posted on the internet by that person foolish, evil, or something else? Second question - do you have any self-control whatsoever? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Posting one's own personal information on the internet is foolish. Posting someone else's is evil. And admins who hide their past to gain adminship shouldn't be admins. Any further questions? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 16:31, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Baseball Bugs, please do not do your usual ANI routine here, in recognition of the seriousness of the matters being discussed. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:27, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Understood. And my (revised) comment above still stands. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 16:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- My question was for Delicious carbuncle, sorry if the indenting was confusing. --Fæ (talk) 16:06, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- The reason I was blocked is that I raised issues that they didn't want to address. As for you and DC, you need to leave each other alone. At present I'm not very impressed by either of you. He should probably be suspended for outing. Also, you need to resign your adminships, but that's another story. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 16:03, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry, then I misunderstood the reason for your block on Commons. As a personal request, could you please explain what you would find an acceptable outcome here to cease creating any more threads about me off-wiki where people are posting my professional details and that of my civil parter while making allegations that appear to be of adultery, paedophilia, fraud and repeating the details of threats against me made elsewhere? I am sure you have no deliberate intention of harassing me, but these seem to be the facts of what is happening based on my reading of the material. My question is genuine as I am frightened and could do with your help to make this end. --Fæ (talk) 15:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Given the way commons is run, getting blocked there is almost a badge of honor. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 15:33, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, you do appear to want to compartmentalize your actions while making every effort to conflate my actions wherever they may occur. I was not blocked on Commons for "intimidation and harassment", I was blocked for connecting your prior account -- User:Ash -- with your current account during a discussion about unwarranted revdeletions made to contributions by User:Bali ultimate. I was unblocked very quickly by the blocking admin. As has already been pointed out by others, you self-identified on Commons using both your old and new accounts, so the entire episode is puzzling, to say the least. When I say "unsubstantiated allegations", it is precisely the type of misleading and demonstrably false statement you have just made. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:31, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- You must have a very selective memory then, Fæ. Have you forgotten this:"How strange to see Delicious carbuncle and Bali ultimate turn up so promptly here and turning this thread to be all about me and about Commons; particularly considering both these accounts have a history of blocks on Commons for harassing me there"? You made that comment here on ANI last week in a discussion started by Baseball Bugs because of comments that you made about someone with whom you had a dispute on Commons. Speaking of Commons, do you recall this thread that you started on the administrator's board to attack me there? Or the comments you made in your failed Commons RfA? Your inability to represent the situation accurately continues unabated, it seems. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:13, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Fæ, I hope you will understand why, after countless accusations of harassment from both Ash and your current account, I doubt the sincerity of your statement "I am sure you have no deliberate intention of harassing me". If you or your partner are being harassed in real life in any way, I suggest you contact the police with the details. If it needs to be said, I do not condone this. As far as Wikipedia Review goes, I do not speak for them in any way, shape, or form and have no control over what happens there, any more than I have over what happens here. If you find specific threads or posts to be threatening, I suggest you contact one of the WR moderators, who have the power to delete threads or remove them from public view. I do not believe that there are any serious allegations of adultery, fraud, or paedophilia to be found there. I would ask you to post links to the specific charges, but I know you will not. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 16:23, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Fae interaction DC [239] and, as documented Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Fæ, Fae did not make a clean start. Nobody Ent 15:37, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I also object in the strongest possible terms to this closure. The closer has completely misrepresented the case against DC. Where DC got the information from is a side issue. The central issue is that he posted Fae's personal information to advance a political dispute, putting Fae's physical safety at risk. That is blatant, egregious harassment for which there is no possible justification. Plenty of editors have understood this and have said so here. How is it possible for anyone to ignore the fact that this sort of thing is completely prohibited? The community should be allowed to have its say. Prioryman (talk) 15:55, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Any misrepresentation was unintentional; I have again changed my summary to a direct quote. Nobody Ent 16:07, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- Having considered this further, I've unarchived the discussion. You are not an administrator and your closure has no force as an administrative action. As a participant in the discussion, who has expressed a point of view in the discussion, it is inappropriate for you or any other involved party to close the discussion. I've restored the status quo ante to allow the discussion to continue until such time as an uninvolved party decides to resolve it one way or another. Your closure was made on the basis of two fundamentally wrong claims. First, it is not a "claim" that DC posted Fae's home name and phone number - it is undisputed fact, admitted by DC. Second, you said that "any reasonable defense against such a claim involves demonstrations of relative ease of finding said information off-wiki". Wikipedia:Harassment allows for no justification whatsoever for such acts: "Posting such information about another editor is an unjustifiable and uninvited invasion of privacy." Nor does it allow a defence of "the information was out there anyway": "The fact that a person either has posted personal information or edits under their own name, making them easily identifiable through online searches, is not an excuse for "opposition research"." Those qualifiers are there for a reason - posting personal information is not allowed, period. If a serious privacy invasion has happened then, by policy, no justification or defence is possible (that is what "unjustifiable" means) - the only thing to discuss is what sanction should be brought. In short, you have completely misstated long-standing policy as the basis of your non-administrative decision, and it therefore has no force nor basis in policy. Prioryman (talk) 20:17, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
- I think the archival was premature; not all the proposals had been thoroughly considered Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
