위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive925
Wikipedia:구글에서 언제 검색했는지에 대한 질문.
| 관리자들이 다룰 수 있는 것은 아니다.WP:VPT는 결과가 왜 그렇게 나오는지 알 수 있을 것이다. -- The Videwalker 16:19, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)(비관리자 폐쇄)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
오늘 구글에서 줄리안 나이트 검색어를 입력했어.첫 번째 검색은 그 기사에 대한 것이었지만, 마지막에는 "멜본"이라는 용어가 붙어 있었다.이 이미지.버그인데 왜? — 73.112.19.88 (대화) 21:36, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[ 앞에 서명되지 않은 댓글 추가
- 우리는 구글에 소속되어 있지 않기 때문에, 그들이 하는 일에 대해 정말 말할 수 없다.이안.톰슨 (대화) 21:39, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 음, 나는 이것을 반복할 수 있었다.꼭 우리 끝에 있는 것은 아니더라도 분명 이상하다.만약 그것이 실제로 오류라면, 우리가 그것을 보고하기 위해 누를 수 있는 피드백 버튼이 보통 있다.어쨌든 줄리안 나이트와 호들 스트리트 대학살이라는 두 가지 주제에 관한 기사에 대한 위키다타 출품작과 관련이 있는 것이 아닌가 하는 생각이 든다.흥미로운 것은 줄리안 나이트(정치인)가 구글 결과에서 그 옆에 위치하지 않는다는 점이다.나는 이것이 다른 어떤 주제에서도 반복 가능한 것이라면 흥미가 있을 것이다.하지만 지금은 어떤 시험 검색도 떠오르지 않아.어쨌든 이것은 ANI 문제는 아니지만, 아마도 어딘가에서 확대되어야 할 것이다.버그가 아니더라도 앞으로 전기 기사나 위키다타 출품작 편집에 도움이 될 텐데 구글이 왜 그런 걸 전시하는지 알면 도움이 될 것이다.—/Mendaliv///2¢Δ's 23:43, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
IP에 의한 장기 악용 - 카툰 카테고리 및 템플릿 스팸 발송 재개
| IP 범위 블록이 확장되었다.(비관리자 폐쇄) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)03:43, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이전 2016년 3월 18일 위키백과의 EluprelFir 보고서 참조:관리자 게시판/IncidentArchive917 § IP에 의한 장기 남용 - 카툰 카테고리 및 템플릿 스팸 처리.결과는 크라카토아카티가 만든 이 범위 블록이었다.범위 블록이 만료되었고 편집기가 다음 계정으로 재개됨
- 2604:2000:A005:1F00:A436:4913:F485:8B73 (토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)
- 2604:2000:A005:1F00:D40D:855F:88D3:4EF1 (토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)
- 2604:2000:A005:1F00:2852:2934:DF4C:711F (토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)
기본적으로 이전과 동일한 편집.범위 블록을 복원 및 확장하도록 요청하십시오.그의 편집자는 이 /64 IPv6 범위를 사용하는 유일한 사람이라 부수적인 피해는 없을 것으로 보인다.제랄도 페레즈 (대화) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC) 15:30[
- 그래, 같은 범위인 것 같아.관리자가 곧 블록을 재적용할 수 있도록 주변에 있어야 한다.또한 AIV에 보고할 수 있으며, 그 범위도 포함시켜 그곳에서 누군가가 처리할 수 있도록 할 수 있다. :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 방금 그랬어.대부분의 /64 범위가 동일한 IPv6에도 불구하고 많은 관리자가 범위 블록을 수행하는 데 불편함을 느낀다.ANI는 범위 블록을 사용하려고 하지만 일시적인 AIV 보고서를 보지 못하는 관리자를 제거할 수 있다.제랄도 페레즈 (대화) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC) 17:17[
- 이해한다.관리자:이러한 IPv6 주소의 범위는 2604:2000:a005:1f00::/64~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)20:37, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)[
- 나는 방금 이전 블록 로그에 대한 링크가 이미 계산된 범위와 함께 게시되었다는 것을 깨달았다.하하, 미안. :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)20:42, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 이해한다.관리자:이러한 IPv6 주소의 범위는 2604:2000:a005:1f00::/64~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)20:37, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)[
- 방금 그랬어.대부분의 /64 범위가 동일한 IPv6에도 불구하고 많은 관리자가 범위 블록을 수행하는 데 불편함을 느낀다.ANI는 범위 블록을 사용하려고 하지만 일시적인 AIV 보고서를 보지 못하는 관리자를 제거할 수 있다.제랄도 페레즈 (대화) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC) 17:17[
- 더 오랜 학대의 역사는 여기서 찾을 수 있다.이 범위에는 내가 알 수 있는 바로는 부수적인 피해가 별로 없다.에버그린피르 (대화) {{re} 18:14, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- IPv6 /64 서브넷은 거의 공유되지 않지만 항상 확인하는 것이 좋다.:) 이 경우, 사용자가 한 명뿐이라는 것은 명백하다.그들이 중단한 곳과 이 일이 너무 오랫동안 계속되면서, 나는 파괴적인 편집을 위해 3개월 동안 /64 범위를 차단했다.--말콤플렉스5 (대화) 22:54, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
사용자 "공모":2001:569:79B7:F000:213:2FF:DEF2:CF4C
| "기부금"이 삭제되었다.(비관리자 폐쇄) GABgab 22:23, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
해당 사용자는 차단되기 전에 기본적으로 인종차별적인 성질을 띠었다.한 명만 빼고 전부 삭제됐어 둘 중 한 명이라도 슬레이트를 깨끗하게 지워줄 수 있어?하프섀도우 18:10, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
완료. 그러나 앞으로는 이와 같은 높은 가시성 페이지에서 문제에 대한 주의를 환기하기보다는 감독관에게 이메일을 보내거나 관리자에게 개인적으로 연락하는 것이 최선이다. -- Ed (Edgar181) 20:32, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
템플릿이 반복적으로 제거되는 경우
| 관련 이용자들은 여기서 제기된 우려를 해소하기 위해 적절한 채널과 절차를 따르도록 상기했다.(비관리자 폐쇄) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)18:07, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=I_Predict_1990&diff=723349111&oldid=723340669
- 두 가지 질문: 출처, 블로그, 믿을 만한가?
- Bredehoft, John E. (2010-02-22). "Jim Morrison's Grave (the Steve Taylor song) and Kurt Cobain". Empoprise-MU. Retrieved 2016-05-31. --evrek(talk) 15:56, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 참조 인용문의 URL(여기)은 여기에 아무것도 존재하지 않는다는 블로그스팟 페이지를 반환하고 있다.그래서 내 관점에서는 확실히 믿을 수 없다고 말하고 싶다 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 15:37, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 사용 방법: http://empoprise-mu.blogspot.com/2010/02/jim-morrisons-grave-steve-taylor-song.html --evrik(talk)
- "empoprise-mu.blogspot.com 블로그는 "짐 모리슨의 무덤"을 "인성 숭배에 대한 반성"으로 묘사할 수 있는 믿을 만한 출처인가"그렇게 생각하지는 마, 하지만 올뮤직 리뷰 같은 더 좋은 출처가 떠돌게 마련이니까."태그를 제거해야 하는가, 아니면 벌을 받지 않고 복원해야 하는가?"아니, WP:3RR에서 면제되지 않는 "신뢰할 수 없는 소스" 태그에 대한 편집 전쟁이 있을 뿐만 아니라, 쓸데없이 떠들어대는 것은 어리석은 일이다.가서 토크페이지에서 토론해 봐.리치333 15(cont):40, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 나도 동의해.토크페이지로 가져가세요. --evrik 15:56, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- "동의" 버스에 뛰어 오른다.너희 둘 사이에 그것을 해결해서 적절한 행동 계획을 악수해라.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)16:13, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 사용 방법: http://empoprise-mu.blogspot.com/2010/02/jim-morrisons-grave-steve-taylor-song.html --evrik(talk)
- 참조 인용문의 URL(여기)은 여기에 아무것도 존재하지 않는다는 블로그스팟 페이지를 반환하고 있다.그래서 내 관점에서는 확실히 믿을 수 없다고 말하고 싶다 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 15:37, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
사용자:보랏빛 환원기
| 비관리자 클로즈.아이리데센트가 처리한다.클루스케 (대화) 08:13, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
- (폐쇄된 논의를 보관하기 전에 15분 정도 기다릴 수 있다.)자신이 뭘 하고 있는지 아는 사람은 아마도 파일:백과사전적 가치가 없는 것으로 삭제하기 위한 Violetnese New.jpg.나는 그녀의 다른 그림을 하원의원으로 지명하려고 하는데, 이곳의 절차는 내게 너무 복잡하다.BMK (대화) 19:17, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- IAR은 WP:G6에 따라 삭제되었다.Violetnese는 그녀가 인터넷에 있는 모든 사이트에 같은 사진을 올렸다는 것을 보여주기 때문에, 우리가 그녀의 유일한 복사본을 삭제하거나 그것을 찾을 수 있는 잠재력을 가진 누군가를 빼앗는 것은 아니다.∙ 무지개빛 19:28, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
제품 사용자 이름 및 프로모션 사용자 페이지
| 특히 사용자가 아무런 문제 없이 10년 가까이 서 있는 만큼 여기에 불만이 없다는 게 공감대다.그리고 Gawd를 위해서, 가서 Westmalle처럼 괜찮은 것을 마셔라, 여러분 모두....리치333(talk)(cont) 15:33, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕, 불행히도 나는 이 문제를 해결하기 위한 노력의 일환으로 여기 나타날 것이다.벡의 토크 페이지는 사용자가 편집을 계속하는 동안 아무런 회신도 받지 못했다.내가 우리의 정책을 이해하는 한 다음과 같은 문제가 있다.
- 사용자 이름 "벡스"는 벡스 맥주와 맥주 브랜드 "벡스"의 제품 및 회사 이름이다.이것은 WP:Username#Promotional name과 맞지 않는 것 같아.(2008년 벡스맥주의 기사를 여러 차례 편집했지만, 한편은 자제했다.)
- 사용자 페이지에 있는 거대한(퐁 사이즈:290px)와 CI 색상과 스타일(캡, 굵게) "BECK's's's's logo는 제품과 회사에 대한 프로모션에 대한 명백한 참조사항이다(c:Category: 참조).벡스와 드:파일:BECKS LOGO.svg).내 생각에 이것은 WP:!#위키피디아(Wikipedia)는 비누박스도 아니고 홍보 수단도 아니고 WP도 아니다.사용자 페이지.사용자의 서명("BECK's")도 또한 브랜드의 색상과 굵은 캡을 사용한다.
내가 이해하기로는 사용자에게 사용자 이름과 서명을 변경하고 사용자 페이지를 변경 또는 삭제하도록 요청하는 것이 적절할 것이다.어떻게 생각하십니까? --트로포비 (대화) 01:58, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- (1) 사용자 이름 정책은 제품 또는 회사 이름을 "분명히" 나타내는 이름을 금지한다.Beck's's는 명확하지 않다.구글 검색
- (2) 사용자 페이지의 녹색 "Beck's" 글자는 당신이 참조하는 Beck의 로고와는 전혀 다르게 보인다.그들이 가지고 있는 유일한 색깔은 초록색과 BECKS와 아포스트로피색이다.
- (3) Beck의 로고조차도 사용자 Beck의 페이지에 쓰여진 글자와 매우 유사하여, 그러한 로고는 독창성의 삼류에는 도달하지 못하므로 저작권이 인정되지 않을 것이다.
- (4) 사용자가 벡스맥주나 맥주 기사들을 전반적으로 편집하고 있었다면, 불평의 싹을 틔울 수도 있겠지만, 편집자의 기고문에는 그 부분에 대한 편집이 단 한 건도 보이지 않는다.
- (5) 내가 사용자인 경우:벡스, 그리고 네가 내 토크 페이지에 와서 그런 터무니없는 불평을 늘어놓으니 나도 너를 무시하고 너의 코멘트를 지우고 싶은 충동이 들 것이다.
- (6) 요컨대 이것은 당신 자신이 만든 문제, 당신 자신의 상상력에 의해 회전하는 것이며, 행정관이 그것에 대해 정말로 할 일은 없다고 나는 생각한다.그만하고, 백과사전을 편집하고, 존재하지 않는 문제를 만들지 말 것을 제안하고 싶다.BMK (대화) 05:08, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 존재하지 않는 문제에 대해 말하자면, 누군가가 악의 없이 "이런, 벡이 이것에 대해 위키피디아를 고소할 수 없는 것이 확실한가?"라고 물을 때까지 기다리면, 반인티메이터의 NLT Bulwark로부터 빠른 블록을 얻는다.EENG 06:10, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그럼 고소장의 본질은 이 계정이 8년 전에 맥주회사 기사를 편집한 것으로 추정된다는 겁니까?이게 다예요?놀랍다.관리자 작업이 필요하지 않음컬렌렛328 2016년 6월 2일 08:22 (UTC) 토론하자[하라
- 동의해, 게다가, 벡스는 좋은 맥주야! (j/k) 사용자가 벡스 기사나 다른 맥주 기사들을 편집하고 있는 것처럼 보이지 않기 때문에, 그들은 자신들이 좋아하는 맥주를 기리기 위해 스스로를 "벡스"라고 부를지도 몰라.게다가, 그들은 특별히 새로운 것이 아니다.나는 여기서 관리자 조치가 필요하지 않다는 것에 동의한다.코슈볼론 11:09, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그럼 고소장의 본질은 이 계정이 8년 전에 맥주회사 기사를 편집한 것으로 추정된다는 겁니까?이게 다예요?놀랍다.관리자 작업이 필요하지 않음컬렌렛328 2016년 6월 2일 08:22 (UTC) 토론하자[하라
- 존재하지 않는 문제에 대해 말하자면, 누군가가 악의 없이 "이런, 벡이 이것에 대해 위키피디아를 고소할 수 없는 것이 확실한가?"라고 물을 때까지 기다리면, 반인티메이터의 NLT Bulwark로부터 빠른 블록을 얻는다.EENG 06:10, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
LTA 반달에 대해 또 다른 범위 블록이 요청됨
| 차단됨 | |
| (비관리 폐쇄) Oshwah가 검증한 범위와 TParis에11598 의해 차단된 범위--Cameron 07:27, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
다산성 LTA 기물 반달에 대한 또 다른 거리 블록이 있어응, 나도 이 일 처리하는데 지쳤어.이전 레인지 블록 논의는 여기서, 여기서 일어났다.User(사용자:닌자RobotPirate/Animation falker#Copycat(활성 범위 블록 목록 및 추가 증거 포함)
요청된 범위는 2602:30 입니다.A:2C95:8C0::/64. 이 범위로부터의 모든 편집이 반달의 확립된 패턴을 따른다는 것을 알 수 있다: 작곡가는 보통 제임스 호너로 바뀌고, 리암 니슨은 보통 출연자 명단에 추가되며, 같은 기사(대개 애니메이션 어린이 영화)는 반복적으로 표적이 된다.예: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]이 범위에서 현재까지 건설적인 편집은 없다.닌자로봇피리테 (토크) 05:28, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- @NinjaRobotPirate:IPv6은 내가 원하는 만큼 잘 이해하지 못하는데, 네가 무슨 말을 하는지 알고 내가 대륙 전체를 차단하려는 게 아니라는 AGF가 과연 가능할까?--v/r - TP 06:10, 2016년 6월 2일(UTC)[
- TParis - 범위를 확인해보겠다.잠깐만...~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 06:22, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
체크아웃하다.이러한 IPv6 주소의 범위는 2602:30a:2c95:8c0:::/64~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)06:24, 2016년 6월 2일(UTC)[이다. - 오슈와 고마워, 차단.--v/r - TP 06:47, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- TParis - 범위를 확인해보겠다.잠깐만...~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 06:22, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
그들은 특별히 어떤 것을 목표로 하고 있는가, 아니면 기회 파괴자의 목표인가?HalfShadow 06:27, 2016년 6월 2일(UTC)[
- LTA 보고서를 보면 (이상하게는 아니지만) 그들은 특별히 연예인들을 대상으로 하는 것 같다.좀 더 구체적으로 배우/배우 및 영화. --Cameron11598(Talk) 06:29, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 이런 젠장, 내가 기대했던 것만큼 도움이 안 되네.그것보다 좀 더 좁은 일이기를 바라고 있었다.06:32, 2016년 6월 2일(UTC)
- @TParis:그래, 안전할 거야프리fs(Gadgets→Advanced→아래)에서 사용 가능한 범위 기여 가젯이 있으면 여기에서 기여하는 범위를 볼 수 있다./16...) 허용이 /64 블록에서의 활동은 전적으로 만화를 파괴하는 것 외에는 아무것도 하지 않은 15개의 IP 주소로 구성되어 있다.WHOIS 데이터에 따르면, 이것은 지역 AT&T 무선 공급자의 작은 덩어리라고 한다.하지만 네가 편안하지 않다면 괜찮아; 나는 누군가가 곧 근처에 있을 거라고 확신해.그래, LTA 보고서는 내 사용자 공간에 있지만 사람들이 그것에 대해 불평하고 싶다면 WP로 옮기겠다.LTA. 대상은 애니메이션 어린이 영화와 BLP로, 여기에 가짜 크레딧이 추가된다.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 06:49, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
SPI를 우회하여 복수를 추구하는 관리자
| SPI는 관리자와 CU를 위한 공식적인 관리자 이사회다.ANI는 지역사회의 논의를 위한 비공식 행정위원회다.관리자가 자신의 비트를 남용하고 있다는 실제 증거가 있는 경우(막연한 주장이 아닌) WP에 다음 문서를 제출:AN, ANI가 아니라.그리고 공식적으로 지리는 무죄의 증거가 아니다.데니스 브라운 - 2016년 6월 2일 08:30, 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이러한 편집에서 Elockid(토크 · 기여)는 두 편집자 - 노리치[6]의 86.191.126.192(토크 · 기여)와 런던의 78.145.23.96(토크 · 기여) - 를 되돌린다.노리치 편집장은 다섯 번이나 되돌아왔다.어떤 관리자도 SPI 토론에서 두 편집자가 모두 발언할 기회를 주지 않고 지리적으로 먼 편집자를 같은 마스터의 양말처럼 차단해서는 안 된다.런던 편집자로서 (다른 1,000만 명과 함께) 나는 수많은 경우에 차단되었고 단 한 번도 대변할 기회가 주어지지 않았다[7]. 31.52.143.80 (대화) 07:42, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그들이 "SPI 토론에서 대표할 수 있는 기회"에 대해 SPI의 대상임을 어떤 계정에도 통지할 의무는 없다.SPI는 당사자에게 통지해야 하는 AN/I가 아니다.독톡 08:02, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 세컨드.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)08:14, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- SPI 페이지에는 "공인"과 "제3자"가 증거를 제시하기 위한 섹션이 있다.왜 그들이 그렇게 하는 것을 막아야 하는가? 31.52.143.80 (대화) 08:07, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[하라
- 아무도 SPI의 고발된 당사자에게 통지할 필요가 없다.마침표.독톡 08:11, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- SPI 사건에서 어떤 사람도 증거를 내주는 것을 막을 요건은 없으며, 만약 그런 일이 일어난다면 행정관이 이 실의 대상인 복수를 추구하고 있다는 합리적인 추론이 가능하다. 31.52.143.80 (대화) 08:17, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 여기 합리적인 추론이 있다.넌 우리 시간을 낭비하는 차단된 편집자야.지나가서 고마워!독톡 08:22, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 아까 여기서 사용자 첫 번째 보고서를 삭제했는데...;-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)08:24, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
ArbCom 경고를 위반하는 스몰본
| OP Checkuser 범위 차단됨.이걸 열어놓고는 아무 것도 나오지 않을 것 같아. -- The Videwalker 01:02, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC) (비관리인 폐쇄)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
지미 웨일즈의 토크 페이지 @Smallbones: 편집자를 상대로 수많은 모욕적인 거짓을 저질렀는데, 이 거짓은 여기에 기술되어 있다.ArbCom은 8-0-1로 판정하면서 스몰본스에게 불필요한 선동적인 언사를 하지 말라고 경고했다.하지만 그는 다시 한 번 그것을 하고 있다.어느 시점에 그를 중지시키는가? - 2001:558:1400:10:3D05:9286:6266:5A35 (대화) 19:12, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- AN/I 민원을 제기할 때도 사용자에게 알려야 한다.나도 그렇게 했지만, 다음에 로그온해서 AN/I 불평을 제기하고 싶을 때는 사용자에게 알리도록 해.조셉 경 19:32, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 2006년 10월에 금지되었고, 2009년에 3개월 동안 차단되지 않은 것(그리고 2007년에 차단되지 않은 1일)을 제외하고도 내내 차단된 상태로 남아 있었다(당당연히 내 의견으로는, 그러나 그 차단 사실은 문제가 되지 않는다).그렇다, 엄밀히 말하면 "10년 이상"은 거짓이지만, "총 9년 5개월"은 싸울 가치가 없을 정도로 충분히 가깝다.위키피디아에는 해결해야 할 심각한 문제들이 있지만, "멜로맨틱한 얼간이들이 늘 많이 찾는 토크페이지의 몇몇 사람들은 멜로맨틱한 얼간이처럼 행동하고 있다"는 것은 싸울 가치가 없는 명분이다.∙ 무지개빛 19:38, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 판결에 따라 수학 오류가 반드시 "필요하게 소염성 허위"로 적합하다고 확신할 수 없다.그 말을 한 이상, 그 논평은 아마도 과도해 보인다.스몰본스에 대한 경고의 정확한 표현은 추가적인 위법행위가 제재로 이어질 수 있다고 말한다.여기서의 질문은 그 논평이 훗날 그가 직면하게 될 지도 모른다는 경고를 받은 친절한 스몰본스의 제재를 촉발하기에 충분한가 하는 것이다.제 추측이고 추측일 뿐이지만, 문제의 페이지의 성격으로 볼 때, 그 대답은 "아니오"일 수도 있지만, 그 상황에서, 나는 그에게 어떤 형태로든 "최종적인 경고"가 주어지고, 앞으로 그와 유사한 언급이 더 이상 제재로 이어질 것이라고 말할 수도 있다고 생각한다.존 카터 (대화) 20:07, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 관련 링크:위키백과:No_regal_regals#Defiliation —골덴심머 제/제르 😹 T 😹️ C ☮ 15:12 🍂 20:03, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
파아냐 로즈의 고기 인형극 / 토크:파냐 로즈
| 편집자가 실수로 템플릿을 복사했고 이제 제거되었다.편집자는 고기/소크 정책에 대해 알지 못했으며, 그 이후 이를 읽고 준수하기로 동의한다.--v/r - TP 06:08, 2016년 6월 2일(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
최근 만들어진 기사인 파냐 로즈에는 기사 삭제에 이의를 제기하는 다양한 사용자(그리고 하나의 IP, FWIW...)들의 사건이 있었다.기사의 편집내에서의 다음 계정과 그 역할은 다음과 같다.
- 린다 로이(토크 · 기여) - 원본 기사 작성자
- Alive2Dive(토크 · 기여) - 편집만 하는 기타 계정(현재...)이 기사 삭제에 이의를 제기하고 있다.
- 173.78.238.239 (대화 · 기여 · WHOIS) - 어떻게든 관여하게 된 IP
- 71.243.250.124 (대화 · 기여 · WHOIS) - 어떻게든 관여하게 된 IP
고마워. Vensco (T C) 02:56, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
UPDATE: 이제 사용자에서 {{sockpuppet Winterysteppe confirm} 템플릿이 표시됨:린다 로이의 대담 페이지, WP:SPI가 더 좋은가?Vensco (T C) 03:01, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 그들이 직접 배치했다.이상하다. --Lemongirl942 (대화) 03:11, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 정말. Vensco (T C) 03:12, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- User(사용자)를 클릭한 것으로 표시됨:에티메나의 시그니처 링크와 그것이 그들을 삭푸페트리 템플릿으로 이끌었다.그들은 템플릿을 이해하지 못하여 그들의 페이지에 복사했다.그게 전부였다.--v/r - TP 04:03, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 에티메나가 내 토크 페이지에 올린 양말 인형뽑기에 대한 혼란은 위에서 말한 바와 같다.그냥 정책을 읽으세요.죄송합니다, 여러분.린다 로이 (토크) 06:25, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 즉, 양말인형인형으로 표시된 사용자가 내 글을 빠르게 삭제하기 위해 내 글을 표시하도록 허용한 이유를 이해할 수 없었다(토크) 06:40, 2016년 6월 1일(UTC)[
- @Lynda Roy:안녕!사용자:에티메나는 빠른 삭제로 당신의 페이지를 지명했을 때 양말 인형처럼 차단되지 않았다.그들은 12.14에 당신의 페이지를 삭제하도록 지명했다.2016년 5월 20일 UTC, 그리고 23.59까지 삭푸펫처럼 막히지 않았다.같은 날 UTC.이것이 도움이 되었으면 좋겠다! :) 골덴쉬머 (대화) 06:53, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 만약 양말퍼펫이 저것처럼 우아하게 소유한다면 확실히 훨씬 더 쉬울 것이다! 06Pocketed:59, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)
- @Goldenshimmer:고마워 골덴시머코칭에 감사한다.새로워지기 어렵고, 모든 것을 흡수한다.린다 로이 (대화) 07:12, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- @Lynda Roy:안녕!사용자:에티메나는 빠른 삭제로 당신의 페이지를 지명했을 때 양말 인형처럼 차단되지 않았다.그들은 12.14에 당신의 페이지를 삭제하도록 지명했다.2016년 5월 20일 UTC, 그리고 23.59까지 삭푸펫처럼 막히지 않았다.같은 날 UTC.이것이 도움이 되었으면 좋겠다! :) 골덴쉬머 (대화) 06:53, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- User(사용자)를 클릭한 것으로 표시됨:에티메나의 시그니처 링크와 그것이 그들을 삭푸페트리 템플릿으로 이끌었다.그들은 템플릿을 이해하지 못하여 그들의 페이지에 복사했다.그게 전부였다.--v/r - TP 04:03, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 정말. Vensco (T C) 03:12, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- @Lynda Roy: 당신이 만든 글의 삭제에 반대하는 유일한 목적으로 최근에 여러 개의 새로운 계정이 만들어졌는데, 다른 사람들은 전혀 편집하지 않은 것 같다.우리는 이 매우 의심스러운 행동을 고려한다.익명으로 보이도록 로그아웃한 상태에서 편집하는 등 사이트에서 허위 지원을 모방하기 위해 두 개 이상의 계정을 운영하는 것은 우리의 다중 계정 정책에 어긋난다.이 정책을 위반하는 편집자는 편집이 차단될 수 있다.사용한 다른 계정을 공개하고 앞으로 이 계정만 사용하십시오.감사합니다.이반벡터 🍁 (대화) 13:00, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- @Ivanvector:파냐 로즈 기사가 남아 있기를 간절히 바라는 친구들과 동료들의 지원에 진심으로 사과한다.이 프로젝트에 대한 그들의 충성심은, 처음으로 탐험가 클럽 회장이 된 여성에 대한 잘 다듬어진 작품을 게재하는 것으로, 내가 좋은 상태로 남아 있고 싶은 새로운 공동체와 나를 곤경에 빠뜨리고 있다.Alive2Dive는 탐험가다.IP에 대해서는 확실하지 않지만, 아마도 내 연구에 도움을 준 사람일 것이다. 레이시플린트는 나에게 출처를 알려준 기록 보관자다.다른 사람이 있다면 나는 그들을 볼 수 없다.이것들은 모두 양말 인형들이 아니다.그들은 위키피디아에서 역사학자가 되고 싶어하는 나의 열정에 사로잡혀 있다.만약 이것이 나를 금지하거나 차단하게 만든다면 나는 이해한다.위키백과를 사랑하라!모든 사람이 이용할 수 있고 신뢰할 수 있기를 바란다.린다 로이 (대화) 13:14, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 내가 여기서 보고 있는 바로는 이 문제가 크게 우려되는 것은 아니라고 생각하지만, 린다 로이가 WP를 읽고 이해한 것으로 추측되기 때문에:SOCK + WP:MIGT, 앞으로 이런 행동이 일어나지 않기를 바란다.사실, 나는 이러한 상황을 새로운 기사로 꽤 자주 보게 되고, 관련된 모든 사용자들은 여러 계정을 남용하여 차단(보통 체크 유저 블록)하게 된다.린다 로이, 그렇다고 해서, 그들이 양말처럼 여겨지기 위해서 당신이 모든 관련 계좌를 통제할 필요는 없다.만약 여러분이 여러분을 대신해서 그 글의 삭제에 대해 모두 이의를 제기하는 친구나 동료가 있다면, 이것은 고기 인형극으로 간주되며, 또한 위키백과 정책을 위반하는 것이다.하지만 당신은 이런 상황에 대처하는 가장 좋은 방법 중 하나인 지역사회에 대해 시민적이고 정직해 보이고, 또한 이것은 선의에서 나온 것처럼 보인다.다른 관련 계정/IP가 귀하와 상관 관계가 있는지 여부에 관계없이, 새로운 계정에 대한 모든 종류의 동작/IP가 새로운 기사의 삭제에 대해 편집하거나 이의를 제기하는 것은 위키피디아에서 부정직하고, 속이고, 완전히 악의적인 것으로 보여져 위키피디아에서는 지극히 의심스러운 것으로 보여지는데, 이는 악의적인 편집/소킹으로 간주되고 있다.(이 구체적인 사례는 선의에서 벗어난 것으로 보이며, 정책에 대한 일반적인 오해로 보인다.)안녕하십니까, Vensco (T C) 16:41, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 안녕 린다 로이, 도움이 되서 기뻐. :) 나는 행정관이 아니니까 어떤 결정을 내릴 처지는 아니지만, 내 생각에는 당신이 위키백과에 긍정적으로 기여하고 싶어하는 것 같으니, 지금으로서는 당신을 차단할 이유가 없다.더 이상의 드라마를 피하려면 다음 정책의 내용을 철저히 숙지할 것을 제안한다.
- 위키백과:Sock_pupetry#Meatpupetry (이것이 당신이 넘어간 것)
- 위키백과:충돌_of_관심
- 이것이 도움이 되길 바라며, 위키백과에서 즐겁고 생산적인 경험을 할 수 있는 행운을 빈다!:) Goldenshimmer (talk) 16:48, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC) (발언 고정 Goldenshimmer (talk) 18:33, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC]
안녕, 모두들. 요즘 이런 기사들을 많이 접하는 것 같아.WP를 명확히 해야 할 것 같다.COI알림.모든 것이 다 처리된 것 같다.파티에 꽤 늦었어...TJH 2018톡 21:24, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 이런 의견과 조언에 모두 감사드린다.그렇게 많은 좋은 사람들이 위키피디아를 주의깊게 지켜보며 그것이 가치있는 자산이라는 것을 알게 되어 기쁘다.나는 배울 것이 많으며, 그렇게 할 수 있는 기회를 환영한다.정성스럽게, 린다 로이(토크) 01:08, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[하라
피자와칩스에 의한 반달리즘11, 3RR 위반
- Pizzaandchips11 (대화 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 사용자 • 블록 사용자 • 블록 로그) 사용자 Pizzipps11은 칼리파(mixtape)페이지의 유해 편집에 참여했으며 3RR를 명백히 위반하고 있다.첫 번째 편집이 이루어진 후, 나는 그에게 이슈에 대한 토론 스레드가 만들어지는 토크 페이지를 가리켰는데, 그 사용자가 무시했다.두 번째 편집 후, 그는 한 번 더 편집하면 3RR 위반으로 보고서가 나온다는 통보를 받았다.위레마르샬 (대화) 17:49, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
편집한 내용에 대한 링크: [9] [10] [11] [12]
- 안녕, 위레마르샬, 이걸 알려줘서 고마워.너는 비교적 새로운 사용자니까 몇 가지 지적하고 싶은 게 있어.관리자 게시판에서 사용자와 토론을 시작할 때 사용자에게 대화 내용을 알리기 위해 대화 페이지 메시지를 남겨두십시오.그래야 그들이 대응할 수 있는 기회를 가질 수 있다.또한, 우리는 전쟁 편집을 보고하는 전용 페이지를 가지고 있다.마지막으로 사소한 점이지만, 우리는 5월 29일에 편집된 두 가지 사항을 3회 되돌리기 규칙에 따른 하나의 '반전'으로 간주한다.그래서 사용자가 가까이 다가왔지만 아직 건너지 않았다.말하자면, 나는 여기서 편집 전쟁이 벌어지고 있고 사용자는 다시 되돌리기 전에 편집자와 토론해야 한다는 것에 동의한다.@Pizzaandchips11:그럴 수 있겠니?그렇지 않다면, 나는 Weweremarshall에 동의해야 할 것이다. Mike V • Talk 18:03, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- WP:AN3 또는 WP:AIV, 어느 경우든 여기선 안 된다.MuffledPocketed 2016년 5월 30일(UTC) 18:05[
- 네 말이 맞아, 마이크 5 난 여기 좀 생소해 특히 사람들을 보도하는 건 말이야하지만, 사용자들의 토크 페이지에 공지사항을 남겨줘.네가 지적한 다른 사항들도 메모해 놓을게, 도와주셔서 정말 고마워!해당 사용자는 자신의 편집 내용 대부분이 요약이 없고, 자신의 토크 페이지에 남겨진 공지사항 대부분이 답장이 되지 않아 다른 사용자를 완전히 무시하는 경향이 있다.위레마르샬 (대화) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC) 18:07 (대화)[
- 역시 고마워.Pocketed Wewremarshall (대화) 18:09, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 네 말이 맞아, 마이크 5 난 여기 좀 생소해 특히 사람들을 보도하는 건 말이야하지만, 사용자들의 토크 페이지에 공지사항을 남겨줘.네가 지적한 다른 사항들도 메모해 놓을게, 도와주셔서 정말 고마워!해당 사용자는 자신의 편집 내용 대부분이 요약이 없고, 자신의 토크 페이지에 남겨진 공지사항 대부분이 답장이 되지 않아 다른 사용자를 완전히 무시하는 경향이 있다.위레마르샬 (대화) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC) 18:07 (대화)[
- WP:AN3 또는 WP:AIV, 어느 경우든 여기선 안 된다.MuffledPocketed 2016년 5월 30일(UTC) 18:05[
스파이커120- 계정 손상?
내 토크페이지에서 Spyker120(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자·블록 로그)은 '동생'이 다양한 철자 맞추기 페이지를 일부 잘못 편집했다고 주장했다.Feinoha 14Talk:49, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 같은 acount(편집자 중 어느 쪽이든!)가 지난 6월 14Imperatrix Mundi:53, 2016년 5월 29일(UTC)[하라에 유사한 편집을 했다는 점에 주목한다.
- 아마도 "누가 그것을 사용하고 있는지 알 수 없기 때문에 우리는 계정을 차단"한다는 의미에서 "계산된" 것으로 간주되어서는 안 될 것이다. 왜냐하면 그 청구는 단지 한 사람에 대한 신빙성이 없기 때문이다.사실이라고 해도 가족용 컴퓨터에 로그인한 상태와 비교해 봤을 때 손상되었다는 징후는 없어만약 그 계정이 부적절한 편집을 하고 있고 편집자가 그 문제를 다루기를 거부한다면, 우리는 아마도 그 기준에 따라 상환을 해야 할 것이다.—/Mendaliv///2¢Δ's 23:54, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
소문자 Sigmabot이 오작동하는 경우
내가 샌드박스를 치우면 봇이 1초만 집어넣으면 돼, 거기에 대한 언급은 없어?KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 21:30, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 이상... 두 번째 것을 제거하고 봇 운영자에게 이 실을 알려주었다. -- The Videwalker 21:38, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 이제 뭘 넣을까?저는 혼란스러워요.너 좀 다른 거 있니?지금은 모바일을 하고 있지만, 할 수 있다면 기꺼이 살펴보겠지만... :-) ~ 오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 21:40, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- @Ooshwah: OP는 봇의 이 편집에 대해 이야기하고 있었다. -- The Videwalker 21:43, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- Microsoft Edge를 통해 Xbox One 편집을 하고 있는데, 여기서 붙여넣기 디플레를 복사할 수 없다.KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 21:50, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 고개 넘어섰어!아직 모바일을 하고 있을 거야(실례지만 느리게 쿡쿡 찌르는 답장이 늦어져서).끔찍하게 들리네, 시티게머66.롤 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 28일 23:43 (UTC)[
- Microsoft Edge를 통해 Xbox One 편집을 하고 있는데, 여기서 붙여넣기 디플레를 복사할 수 없다.KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 21:50, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- @Ooshwah: OP는 봇의 이 편집에 대해 이야기하고 있었다. -- The Videwalker 21:43, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 두 편집 모두 같은 분 안에 있었다.봇이 필요한 헤더를 교체하고 추가하는 것을 보고, CG66도 대략 같은 시간에 하는 편집 충돌이었을까.—C.Fred (대화) 21:53, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것이 나에게 편집상의 충돌을 일으키지 않았다고 생각한다.KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 21:59, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 흥미롭군...지난 3월에도 비슷한 일이 있었는데 위키피디아 토크에 나온 걸 빼면:샌드박스와 사이버봇이 샌드박스 헤더 템플릿을 다시 삽입한 후 일어났다.배추포타토 (토크) 23:38, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것이 단순히 우연이었다고 의심한다.Lowercase sigmabot의 기능 중 하나는 샌드박스 헤더를 제거할 때 교체하는 것으로 KGirlTrucker87과 Lowercase sigmabot 모두 거의 같은 순간에 그렇게 했다. --Malcolmxl5 (토크) 00:29, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
수년 전, 사람들은 ANI에 즉시 보고하는 대신에 정기적으로 훨씬 더 나쁜 편집을 받는 중요하지 않은 페이지에 해롭지 않은 간헐적인 오류가 발생했을 때 봇 운영자에게 연락하거나 전혀 불평하지 않았다.시대가 변한 것 같다.
sandbot은 그 업무가 사소한 일이고 상대적으로 중요하지 않은 페이지들의 집합에 한정되기 때문에 로그를 보관하지 않는다.그래서 내가 가장 잘 추측하는 것은 어떤 이유인지 알 수 없는 이유로 봇이 API에서 샌드박스에 있는 템플릿 목록을 검색하지 못했다는 것이다.이와 같은 상황에서는, 샌드박스 헤더를 그대로 추가하도록 설계되었다.
→σσς. (시그마) 00:13, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
피자와칩스에 의한 반달리즘11, 3RR 위반
- Pizzaandchips11 (대화 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 사용자 • 블록 사용자 • 블록 로그) 사용자 Pizzipps11은 칼리파(mixtape)페이지의 유해 편집에 참여했으며 3RR를 명백히 위반하고 있다.첫 번째 편집이 이루어진 후, 나는 그에게 이슈에 대한 토론 스레드가 만들어지는 토크 페이지를 가리켰는데, 그 사용자가 무시했다.두 번째 편집 후, 그는 한 번 더 편집하면 3RR 위반으로 보고서가 나온다는 통보를 받았다.위레마르샬 (대화) 17:49, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
편집한 내용에 대한 링크: [13] [14] [15] [16]
- 안녕, 위레마르샬, 이걸 알려줘서 고마워.너는 비교적 새로운 사용자니까 몇 가지 지적하고 싶은 게 있어.관리자 게시판에서 사용자와 토론을 시작할 때 사용자에게 대화 내용을 알리기 위해 대화 페이지 메시지를 남겨두십시오.그래야 그들이 대응할 수 있는 기회를 가질 수 있다.또한, 우리는 전쟁 편집을 보고하는 전용 페이지를 가지고 있다.마지막으로 사소한 점이지만, 우리는 5월 29일에 편집된 두 가지 사항을 3회 되돌리기 규칙에 따른 하나의 '반전'으로 간주한다.그래서 사용자가 가까이 다가왔지만 아직 건너지 않았다.말하자면, 나는 여기서 편집 전쟁이 벌어지고 있고 사용자는 다시 되돌리기 전에 편집자와 토론해야 한다는 것에 동의한다.@Pizzaandchips11:그럴 수 있겠니?그렇지 않다면, 나는 Weweremarshall에 동의해야 할 것이다. Mike V • Talk 18:03, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- WP:AN3 또는 WP:AIV, 어느 경우든 여기선 안 된다.MuffledPocketed 2016년 5월 30일(UTC) 18:05[
- 네 말이 맞아, 마이크 5 난 여기 좀 생소해 특히 사람들을 보도하는 건 말이야하지만, 사용자들의 토크 페이지에 공지사항을 남겨줘.네가 지적한 다른 사항들도 메모해 놓을게, 도와주셔서 정말 고마워!해당 사용자는 자신의 편집 내용 대부분이 요약이 없고, 자신의 토크 페이지에 남겨진 공지사항 대부분이 답장이 되지 않아 다른 사용자를 완전히 무시하는 경향이 있다.위레마르샬 (대화) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC) 18:07 (대화)[
- 역시 고마워.Pocketed Wewremarshall (대화) 18:09, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 네 말이 맞아, 마이크 5 난 여기 좀 생소해 특히 사람들을 보도하는 건 말이야하지만, 사용자들의 토크 페이지에 공지사항을 남겨줘.네가 지적한 다른 사항들도 메모해 놓을게, 도와주셔서 정말 고마워!해당 사용자는 자신의 편집 내용 대부분이 요약이 없고, 자신의 토크 페이지에 남겨진 공지사항 대부분이 답장이 되지 않아 다른 사용자를 완전히 무시하는 경향이 있다.위레마르샬 (대화) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC) 18:07 (대화)[
- WP:AN3 또는 WP:AIV, 어느 경우든 여기선 안 된다.MuffledPocketed 2016년 5월 30일(UTC) 18:05[
스파이커120- 계정 손상?
내 토크페이지에서 Spyker120(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자·블록 로그)은 '동생'이 다양한 철자 맞추기 페이지를 일부 잘못 편집했다고 주장했다.Feinoha 14Talk:49, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 같은 acount(편집자 중 어느 쪽이든!)가 지난 6월 14Imperatrix Mundi:53, 2016년 5월 29일(UTC)[하라에 유사한 편집을 했다는 점에 주목한다.
- 아마도 "누가 그것을 사용하고 있는지 알 수 없기 때문에 우리는 계정을 차단"한다는 의미에서 "계산된" 것으로 간주되어서는 안 될 것이다. 왜냐하면 그 청구는 단지 한 사람에 대한 신빙성이 없기 때문이다.사실이라고 해도 가족용 컴퓨터에 로그인한 상태와 비교해 봤을 때 손상되었다는 징후는 없어만약 그 계정이 부적절한 편집을 하고 있고 편집자가 그 문제를 다루기를 거부한다면, 우리는 아마도 그 기준에 따라 상환을 해야 할 것이다.—/Mendaliv///2¢Δ's 23:54, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
소문자 Sigmabot이 오작동하는 경우
내가 샌드박스를 치우면 봇이 1초만 집어넣으면 돼, 거기에 대한 언급은 없어?KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 21:30, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 이상... 두 번째 것을 제거하고 봇 운영자에게 이 실을 알려주었다. -- The Videwalker 21:38, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 이제 뭘 넣을까?저는 혼란스러워요.너 좀 다른 거 있니?지금은 모바일을 하고 있지만, 할 수 있다면 기꺼이 살펴보겠지만... :-) ~ 오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 21:40, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- @Ooshwah: OP는 봇의 이 편집에 대해 이야기하고 있었다. -- The Videwalker 21:43, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- Microsoft Edge를 통해 Xbox One 편집을 하고 있는데, 여기서 붙여넣기 디플레를 복사할 수 없다.KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 21:50, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 고개 넘어섰어!아직 모바일을 하고 있을 거야(실례지만 느리게 쿡쿡 찌르는 답장이 늦어져서).끔찍하게 들리네, 시티게머66.롤 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 28일 23:43 (UTC)[
- Microsoft Edge를 통해 Xbox One 편집을 하고 있는데, 여기서 붙여넣기 디플레를 복사할 수 없다.KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 21:50, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- @Ooshwah: OP는 봇의 이 편집에 대해 이야기하고 있었다. -- The Videwalker 21:43, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 두 편집 모두 같은 분 안에 있었다.봇이 필요한 헤더를 교체하고 추가하는 것을 보고, CG66도 대략 같은 시간에 하는 편집 충돌이었을까.—C.Fred (대화) 21:53, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것이 나에게 편집상의 충돌을 일으키지 않았다고 생각한다.KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 21:59, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 흥미롭군...지난 3월에도 비슷한 일이 있었는데 위키피디아 토크에 나온 걸 빼면:샌드박스와 사이버봇이 샌드박스 헤더 템플릿을 다시 삽입한 후 일어났다.배추포타토 (토크) 23:38, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것이 단순히 우연이었다고 의심한다.Lowercase sigmabot의 기능 중 하나는 샌드박스 헤더를 제거할 때 교체하는 것으로 KGirlTrucker87과 Lowercase sigmabot 모두 거의 같은 순간에 그렇게 했다. --Malcolmxl5 (토크) 00:29, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
수년 전, 사람들은 ANI에 즉시 보고하는 대신에 정기적으로 훨씬 더 나쁜 편집을 받는 중요하지 않은 페이지에 해롭지 않은 간헐적인 오류가 발생했을 때 봇 운영자에게 연락하거나 전혀 불평하지 않았다.시대가 변한 것 같다.
sandbot은 그 업무가 사소한 일이고 상대적으로 중요하지 않은 페이지들의 집합에 한정되기 때문에 로그를 보관하지 않는다.그래서 내가 가장 잘 추측하는 것은 어떤 이유인지 알 수 없는 이유로 봇이 API에서 샌드박스에 있는 템플릿 목록을 검색하지 못했다는 것이다.이와 같은 상황에서는, 샌드박스 헤더를 그대로 추가하도록 설계되었다.
→σσς. (시그마) 00:13, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
Sockpuppet 조사
Hello, User:Bb23이 최근에 User:의 계정을 차단함:Ranya.a, 사용자:Sshalhout, 사용자:Nrmeen404, 사용자:Hadeel1005 및 사용자:사용자의 Sockpuppet과 같은 Alaimusleh:라냐아.아.사실 그들은 모두 미생물학 과정을 위한 교실 과제를 위해 협력하고 있다.사용자:Bbb23을 자신의 대화 페이지에 공지했지만, 문제의 시간 민감성 때문에 여기에 다시 게시하고 있다.누군가 계정을 복구해서 다시 시작할 수 있게 해 주시겠습니까?베스트 안부, --Fjmustak (대화) 09:03, 2016년 5월 29일 (응답]
- 무슨 말인지 알겠지만, 여기는 수업 시간에 적당한 장소가 아니야.위키피디아를 통해 발표되지 않도록 교육과정을 변경해 주시겠습니까?다스보토 talk•cont 10시 39분, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[하라
- 다른 관리자는 이러한 계정을 차단 해제할 수 없다.오직 I 또는 다른 CheckUser만이 그렇게 할 수 있다.Fjmustak은 과정 강사가 아니다.또한 그들은 계정의 통계에 근거한 경험 있는 편집자도 아니다(계정을 만들기 전에 그들이 무엇을 했는지 모른다).이 "강의실 과제"에는 투명성이 없었다.다양한 사용자 페이지에는 연습에 참여하고 있음을 나타내는 게시물, 연습 범위 또는 연습 기간에는 게시물이 없었다.나는 아직도 이런 것들을 하나도 모른다.한편, 그들은 가치 있는 공동체 자원을 불필요하게 낭비했고, 그렇게 하는 데 있어서 고의적이지는 않더라도 파괴적이었다.나는 이 문제에 대한 추가 입력을 환영하지만 이 시점에서 계정 차단을 해제할 근거가 없다고 본다.교실 운동, 코스 교육 등은 그러한 절차가 지켜지지 않을 때 SPI에서 자주 문제를 제기하는 절차상의 난맥상으로, 심지어 그 활동이 여기보다 더 합법적일 때도 그렇다.절차 얘기가 나와서 말인데, Fjmustak은 필요에 따라 이 실을 나에게 알리지 못했다.핑을 받았기 때문에 온 겁니다.--Bbb23 (대화) 11:22, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[하라
- Hi User:Bb23.나는 너의 토크 페이지에 메시지를 보냈어.무기한 블록을 되돌리기 위한 가장 좋은 장소가 어디인지 잘 모르겠고(만약 이 토론을 다시 당신의 토크 페이지로 옮기는 것이 더 좋다면, 나에게 알려 달라), 정말로 이것이 학기말(다음 주) 전에 해결될 수 있기를 희망한다.어쨌든 이 학생들은 되돌린 내용들을 큰 블록으로 더했을지 모르지만, 그들은 확실히 같은 사람이 아니며, 그들의 위반이 무엇이든, 삭푸페티는 하나가 아니다.나는 그들에게 그렇게 노골적인 저작권 위반이 되지 않도록 그들의 내용을 다시 쓰라고 부탁했었다.너의 시간을 빼앗은 것에 대해 사과하고, 그들이 가능한 한 빨리 과제를 재개할 수 있기를 바란다.베스트 안부 --Fjmustak (대화) 16:30, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 당신이 BB의 토크 페이지에 남긴 메시지는 불충분했다.당신은 단지 당신이 여기서 다른 사람들에게 묻고 있는 것과 같은 질문을 그에게 했을 뿐이다.너는 네가 그에 대해 말하고 있다고 그에게 말해야 한다: 이것은 끝나지 않았다.Muffled Pocketed 2016년 5월 29일 16:51 (UTC)[하라
- 응, 너는 내 토크 페이지에 메시지를 남겼지만 ANI에 대해서는 언급하지 않았어.학생 수는 얼마나 되나요?무슨 상관이야?그들 중 몇몇은 같은 컴퓨터를 사용하고 있는가?이 과제의 목적은?--Bb23 (대화) 16:49, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 다시 사용자:Bbb23, 이 ANI에 대해 알려드리는 절차를 따르지 않은 것에 대해 사과한다.나는 팔레스타인의 위키백과 교육 프로그램의 코디네이터다.사용자:Fjmustak.현재 참여하는 대학은 비르제이트대학이 유일하다.이번 학기는 프로그램 2학기 입니다.과학을 가르치는 언어는 영어지만 대부분의 학생들의 모국어는 아랍어다.이번 학기에는 미생물과정의 4개 학과(약 70명)가 참여한다.그들의 임무는 미생물학 주제에 대한 위키피디아 기사를 쓰는 것이다(두 교수에 의해 선택됨).대부분의 학생들은 아랍어로 편집했고, 5명의 최소 억제 집중에 관한 기사를 편집하는 것을 포함하여 10명의 학생들은 영어로 쓰는 것을 선택했다.주요 언어가 아랍어이기 때문에, 과정 페이지(다중 프로젝트 과정을 지원하지 않는 것)는 학생들이 나열되어 있는 아랍어 위키백과(여기)에서 진행한다.차단된 MIC 기사를 작업하는 5명의 학생들은 같은 컴퓨터, 혹은 적어도 같은 컴퓨터 실험실에서 매우 잘 작업했을 것이다.나는 그들에게 각자 자신의 기여를 더해서 1) 위키백과 편집법을 배울 수 있도록, 2) 일에 대한 공로를 인정받을 수 있도록 격려했었다.다가오는 학기 동안, 나는 영어 위키피디아에서 편집하는 학생들이 그들의 사용자 페이지를 명확하게 표시하도록 할 것이고, 그들에게 특별히 양말풀이학에 대해 경고할 것이다.나는 내가 너의 질문에 대답하기를 바란다.안녕, --Fjmustak (대화) 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC) 17:39, [
- @Fjmustak:고마워, 훨씬 더 도움이 되는 정보야.질문이 하나 더 있다.그러면 나는 너와 학생들이 동의할 수 있는 조건들이 있고, 내가 차단을 풀 수 있을 거야.내가 차단한 여섯 개의 계정 중에서 나는 알라이무슬레(토크 · 기여 · 카운트)와 알라이무슬레95(토크 · 기여 · 카운트)가 정말 같은 사람이라고 추측하고 있다.그것이 맞습니까?만약 그렇다면, 학생이 두 개를 갖는다는 것은 의미가 없기 때문에 어느 것을 막아야 하는가.조건.학생들이 엔위키에서 더 실질적인 편집을 하기 전에, 그들은 그들이 무엇을 하고 있고 그것이 얼마나 오래 지속될 것인지에 대한 메시지를 사용자 페이지에 게시하고 당신을 코디네이터로 언급해야 한다.사용자 페이지에 자신이 코디네이터라는 메시지와 현재 진행 중인 일, 과제 기간, 5명의 학생 계정 등을 게시해야 한다.우리가 그 모든 것에 동의할 수 있다면, 나는 그들을 위키피디아에 풀어 놓을 것이다.여러분이나 다른 누군가가 편집한 내용을 모니터링하여 중단이 일시적이고 신속하게 시정되도록 하기를 바란다.--Bbb23 (대화) 17:49, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 고마워 @Bbb23:알라이무슬레(alaimusleh, talk · 기여 · count)는 사실 알라이무슬레95(talk · 기여 · count)와 같다(그녀가 왜 두 개를 창조했는지도 알 수 없고, 나는 또한 그 일을 하지 않도록 그들에게 일깨워 주도록 할 것이다...알라이무슬레는 막아야 할 사람이다.조건에 대해서는 내가 맡는다.과정에 대한 정보를 내 사용자 페이지에 추가하겠다(여기서 설명한 것으로 충분했으면 좋겠다).나는 또한 더 많은 편집을 하기 전에 영어로 편집하는 모든 학생들에게 그들의 사용자 페이지에 정보를 추가하도록 요청할 것이다.건배 --Fjmustak (토크) 18:02, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 좋아. 아래 코멘트, 특히 브라운헤어드걸의 코멘트는 당신에게 절차상의 장애물을 더해줄 것이다.네가 그런 일을 하지 않는 것을 용납하는 것이 아니라, 체커와 양말을 막는 사람으로서 나의 제한된 관점에서, 나는 단지 땅을 팔 필요 없이 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 알 수 있도록 충분한 투명성이 필요하다.따라서 약속대로 차단을 풀겠지만, 앞으로 절차상의 요건에 대해 생각해 보길 바랄지도 모르겠고, 그렇게 하지 않으면 당신에게 불리하게 작용하지 않을 것이라고 장담할 수 없다.너는 매우 합리적이고 예의 바른 사람인 것 같아, 내가 개인적으로 소중하게 여기는 거야.내가 아는 원어민들보다 너의 영어가 더 좋아.행운을 빌며, 더 많은 도움이 필요하면 알려줘.--Bb23 (대화) 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC) 18:12, 29 (
- 음, bb23, 나는 언블록의 길에 절차상의 장애물을 추가할 생각은 없었고, 나의 논평이 그런 식으로 나타났다는 것에 놀랐다.나는 단지 이러한 유형의 활동에 대해 쓰여진 기존의 지침을 지적하고 싶었을 뿐인데, 그것은 함정에 대한 유용한 설명을 제공하고 지금까지 연결되어 있지 않은 것처럼 보이기 때문이다.
모두가 선의로 행동한 것 같고, Fj무스탁이 매우 정중하고 직설적이어서, Fj무스탁의 제자들을 차단할 수 있게 된 것을 기쁘게 생각한다. --BrownHairedGirl (토크) • (출연) 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC) 18:25, 2016[- @BrownHailedGirl : 모두 동의해서 다행이고, 링크도 유용하다.--Bb23 (토크) 18:29, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- bb23과 BrownHairdGirl, 담화를 예의 바르게 지키면서 이 오해를 학습 경험으로 바꾸어 준 두 분(그리고 관련된 다른 모든 분)에게 감사드린다.절차도 중요하고, 다음 학기를 위한 안내서를 만들기 시작했으며, 브라운헤어드걸의 링크에 더 많은 제안들을 포함시킬 것이다.나는 과정 페이지가 아랍어로 되어 있고, 절차가 중요한 영어 위키백과보다 "작은" 위키백과에서 학생들을 관리하는 것이 훨씬 쉽다는 것이 오해의 주된 원인이라고 생각한다.다시 한번 고마워. --Fjmustak (대화) 18:38, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- @BrownHailedGirl : 모두 동의해서 다행이고, 링크도 유용하다.--Bb23 (토크) 18:29, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 음, bb23, 나는 언블록의 길에 절차상의 장애물을 추가할 생각은 없었고, 나의 논평이 그런 식으로 나타났다는 것에 놀랐다.나는 단지 이러한 유형의 활동에 대해 쓰여진 기존의 지침을 지적하고 싶었을 뿐인데, 그것은 함정에 대한 유용한 설명을 제공하고 지금까지 연결되어 있지 않은 것처럼 보이기 때문이다.
- 좋아. 아래 코멘트, 특히 브라운헤어드걸의 코멘트는 당신에게 절차상의 장애물을 더해줄 것이다.네가 그런 일을 하지 않는 것을 용납하는 것이 아니라, 체커와 양말을 막는 사람으로서 나의 제한된 관점에서, 나는 단지 땅을 팔 필요 없이 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 알 수 있도록 충분한 투명성이 필요하다.따라서 약속대로 차단을 풀겠지만, 앞으로 절차상의 요건에 대해 생각해 보길 바랄지도 모르겠고, 그렇게 하지 않으면 당신에게 불리하게 작용하지 않을 것이라고 장담할 수 없다.너는 매우 합리적이고 예의 바른 사람인 것 같아, 내가 개인적으로 소중하게 여기는 거야.내가 아는 원어민들보다 너의 영어가 더 좋아.행운을 빌며, 더 많은 도움이 필요하면 알려줘.--Bb23 (대화) 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC) 18:12, 29 (
- 고마워 @Bbb23:알라이무슬레(alaimusleh, talk · 기여 · count)는 사실 알라이무슬레95(talk · 기여 · count)와 같다(그녀가 왜 두 개를 창조했는지도 알 수 없고, 나는 또한 그 일을 하지 않도록 그들에게 일깨워 주도록 할 것이다...알라이무슬레는 막아야 할 사람이다.조건에 대해서는 내가 맡는다.과정에 대한 정보를 내 사용자 페이지에 추가하겠다(여기서 설명한 것으로 충분했으면 좋겠다).나는 또한 더 많은 편집을 하기 전에 영어로 편집하는 모든 학생들에게 그들의 사용자 페이지에 정보를 추가하도록 요청할 것이다.건배 --Fjmustak (토크) 18:02, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- @Fjmustak:고마워, 훨씬 더 도움이 되는 정보야.질문이 하나 더 있다.그러면 나는 너와 학생들이 동의할 수 있는 조건들이 있고, 내가 차단을 풀 수 있을 거야.내가 차단한 여섯 개의 계정 중에서 나는 알라이무슬레(토크 · 기여 · 카운트)와 알라이무슬레95(토크 · 기여 · 카운트)가 정말 같은 사람이라고 추측하고 있다.그것이 맞습니까?만약 그렇다면, 학생이 두 개를 갖는다는 것은 의미가 없기 때문에 어느 것을 막아야 하는가.조건.학생들이 엔위키에서 더 실질적인 편집을 하기 전에, 그들은 그들이 무엇을 하고 있고 그것이 얼마나 오래 지속될 것인지에 대한 메시지를 사용자 페이지에 게시하고 당신을 코디네이터로 언급해야 한다.사용자 페이지에 자신이 코디네이터라는 메시지와 현재 진행 중인 일, 과제 기간, 5명의 학생 계정 등을 게시해야 한다.우리가 그 모든 것에 동의할 수 있다면, 나는 그들을 위키피디아에 풀어 놓을 것이다.여러분이나 다른 누군가가 편집한 내용을 모니터링하여 중단이 일시적이고 신속하게 시정되도록 하기를 바란다.--Bbb23 (대화) 17:49, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 다시 사용자:Bbb23, 이 ANI에 대해 알려드리는 절차를 따르지 않은 것에 대해 사과한다.나는 팔레스타인의 위키백과 교육 프로그램의 코디네이터다.사용자:Fjmustak.현재 참여하는 대학은 비르제이트대학이 유일하다.이번 학기는 프로그램 2학기 입니다.과학을 가르치는 언어는 영어지만 대부분의 학생들의 모국어는 아랍어다.이번 학기에는 미생물과정의 4개 학과(약 70명)가 참여한다.그들의 임무는 미생물학 주제에 대한 위키피디아 기사를 쓰는 것이다(두 교수에 의해 선택됨).대부분의 학생들은 아랍어로 편집했고, 5명의 최소 억제 집중에 관한 기사를 편집하는 것을 포함하여 10명의 학생들은 영어로 쓰는 것을 선택했다.주요 언어가 아랍어이기 때문에, 과정 페이지(다중 프로젝트 과정을 지원하지 않는 것)는 학생들이 나열되어 있는 아랍어 위키백과(여기)에서 진행한다.차단된 MIC 기사를 작업하는 5명의 학생들은 같은 컴퓨터, 혹은 적어도 같은 컴퓨터 실험실에서 매우 잘 작업했을 것이다.나는 그들에게 각자 자신의 기여를 더해서 1) 위키백과 편집법을 배울 수 있도록, 2) 일에 대한 공로를 인정받을 수 있도록 격려했었다.다가오는 학기 동안, 나는 영어 위키피디아에서 편집하는 학생들이 그들의 사용자 페이지를 명확하게 표시하도록 할 것이고, 그들에게 특별히 양말풀이학에 대해 경고할 것이다.나는 내가 너의 질문에 대답하기를 바란다.안녕, --Fjmustak (대화) 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC) 17:39, [
- 좋은 블럭이네, BBB.사용자:닐 아인(Nil Einne)이 WP에 게시:ED 사건 페이지도 이 문제를 해결하기 위해 여기 있다. 나도 같은 일을 하러 갔었다.또한 사용자 ping:이안 (위키 에드) Jytdog (대화) 17:53, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- @Fjmustak:나는 위키피디아를 읽는 것을 추천한다:학생 과제, 아직 하지 않았다면. --BrownHairdGirl(토크) • (출연) 17:57, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 고마워, Jytdog.나는 ENB에 있는 게시물을 통해 이것을 보았다. 나는 정말 추가할 것이 많지 않다.그것은 내가 코스 페이지를 생각하도록 만들었다 - en에는 없지만, ar에는 하나 있는 것처럼 보이는 것을 나는 알아차렸다.강좌에 대한 크로스위키 공지를 더 쉽게 할 수 있는 방법이 없을까.(주거래처와 함께 이곳에 자주 올렸기 때문에 이중서명) 게타르다/이안(위키에드) (토크) 02:57, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 이안(위키 에드) WMF는 프로젝트 간 과제를 허용해야 하기 때문에 빨리 사용하고 싶은 위키 에드 대시보드를 국제화하는 작업을 하고 있다.손가락이 엇갈렸다. --Fjmustak (대화) 12:44, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- Fjmustak - 그래, 알아. 이게 Dashboard 계획의 일부인지 궁금했어. (알아봐야겠어.)게타르다/이안 (위키 에드) (토크) 02:29, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 이안(위키 에드) WMF는 프로젝트 간 과제를 허용해야 하기 때문에 빨리 사용하고 싶은 위키 에드 대시보드를 국제화하는 작업을 하고 있다.손가락이 엇갈렸다. --Fjmustak (대화) 12:44, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
무사히반에서의 이상한 일들
방금 내가 되돌린 편집과 내 토크 페이지에서 IP 편집을 누군가 T를 봐줄 수 있니?그 기사는 재구축이 필요하지만 훈련 가능한 출처에서 나온 것이다.고마워요.더그 웰러가 10시 40분, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 의견) 잘 되감았다.다른 IP(소크/고기 인형)에 의한 위협.WP당 둘 다(또는 적어도 후자) 차단할 것을 제안한다.NOTHERE, WP:CIR (위협이 행해지지 않는 것을 이해하지 못하면 노골적으로 무능하다.)클루스케(토크) 10:52, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- P.S. 많은 IP 홉핑이 진행되고 있는 것 같다, 여기와 WP:NPOV는 생소한 개념으로 보인다.클루스케(토크) 10:58, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- Mohammadzai는 더그의 IP 편집자에 의해 편집되었고, 완전히 비협조적인 것처럼 보인다.just sayin' -Roxy the dog™ woof 11:09, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
누가 내 이름을 지어주려 하고 있어.
| 이것에서 밀과 겨를 분리하는 것은 거의 불가능하고, 이제 그것은 편집된 것이 30개도 안 되는 사람들로부터 추진력 있는 코멘트를 끌어들이고 있다.그리고 그 편집자들에게 답장을 보낸다.게다가 여긴 몇 주째 곪고 있어.그래서 나는 여기서 내가 할 수 있는 최선을 다해서, 비록 클로즈가 불완전하고 모두를 짜증나게 할지라도, 이것을 닫을 것이다.User:YuHuw, 내가 제대로 이해한다면, 논쟁의 요점은 User:ееп оаааоооо you you you는 당신의 이름이 지나치게 선견지명이 있다고 가정하여 당신을 지칭하였다.다른 모든 것은 그것에서 기인하는 것 같다.나는 편집이 revdel이나 감독 요건에 부합한다고 생각하지 않는다; WP:GOADING은 당신을 실생활에서 특정한 사람과 연결하려는 시도가 필요하다.추정된 이름을 사용하는 것은 그렇게 하지 않는다.오버서터로서 감독 요청을 거절할 겁니다However, I will let Неполканов and User:토디1은 이제부터 그들이 '유후'를 제외한 어떤 것으로도 당신을 언급해서는 안 된다는 것을 알고, 증거가 뒷받침된 SPI에 있지 않는 한 당신이 그 누구의 속박이라는 암시를 하지 않는다.미래에 그렇게 하는 것은 괴롭힘으로 여겨질 수도 있다.대신 계정을 사용하여 편집을 다시 시작하십시오. 이제 이 IP에서 편집하는 데 이점이 없으며 몇 가지 비용도 들지 마십시오.WP:Cleanstart(클린 스타트)를 시작하지만, 그러면 지금 편집 중인 논쟁적인 영역을 편집할 수 없게 된다.마지막으로, 향후에 과시를 원하는 것이 있을 경우, 개인적으로 과시탐지기에게 연락하거나 사용자:감독, 프로젝트에서 가장 많이 보는 페이지에 문제를 공표하지 말 것. --Floquenbeam (대화) 19:28, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
내가 영국에서 온 사람이라고 모두에게 말하고 있었기 때문에 내 사용자 이름보다는 IP를 사용하여 편집하도록 강요했던 바로 그 사람이 나를 여기에 이름을 붙이려 하고 있다.여기서 편집자에 대한 사적인 정보를 캐내려고 하지 않는 것에 대한 정책은 없는가?나는 공적인 인물이 아니다. 나는 개인적이고 사용자에게는 전혀 알려져 있지 않다.еп ооаа and and and and와 그의 미트푸펫들은 내가 누구인지를 가려내려고 애쓰고 나를 자극하여 나에 대한 사적인 정보를 드러내도록 하는 강박관념을 가지고 있다.내가 나에 대해 자원봉사를 하는 유일한 정보는 내가 이스라엘 사람이라는 것이다.다른 모든 것은 나만의 일이며 나는 아무도 여기 위키피디아에 나를 이름을 붙이려 하지 않기를 바란다.어떻게 좀 해 줘. 87.69.184.128 (대화) 16:19, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC)[하라
내가 누구인지 추측하려는 사용자의 미트푸펫에서 더 많은 편집.[17] [18] 내 토크 페이지의 이력을 보면 누가 그 IP를 사용하고 있는지 매우 명백하다[19] 이런 종류의 개인 괴롭힘은 허용되지 않아야 한다. 87.69.184.128 (대화) 16:29, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC)[
- 사용자로 자체 식별하기 때문에:YuHuw ([20] 참조), 익명 IP 편집기로 편집하는 이유는?또한, 당신은 왜 다른 편집자들에 대해 욕설을 할 필요성을 느끼는가?예를 들어 2016년 5월 14일 11시 31분에 게시된 게시물에서 다음을 수행하십시오.
- 블록을 WP로 제안:여기선 안돼.--토디1 (대화) 16:31, 2016년 5월 14일 ()[응답
사용자:Clpo13을 입력하십시오.Toddy1은 일종의 사용자다.Неполканов puppet.사용자에게 알림:ееп оааа but but but but 그러나 Toddy1은 반응한다.이것은 그의 전형적인 행동 패턴이다. 87.69.184.128 (대화) 16:36, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC) 이 괴롭힘은 벌써 5개월째 계속되고 있다. 87.69.184.128 (대화) 16:38, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC) 사용자:ееп ааа аа himself himself 그 자신이 애당초 영국 편집장이 소아성애자라고 하여 혐오스럽다고 믿게 한 사람이다.그리고 나서 그들은 나를 그 사람이라고 불렀다. 87.69.184.128 (대화) 16:41, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC) Toddy1의 반응은 여기서 (그리고 내 토크 페이지의 그의 애논 IP 편집은) 그가 사용자와의 문제가 있는 사람들 주변에서 윙윙거리는 완벽한 예다.Неполканов, almost like he is a paid bodyguard or something. 87.69.184.128 (talk) 16:44, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- 그도 바즈라고 불리지 않아?16:52, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC)[
- <인신공격 수정> 94.119.64.42 (대화) 16:54, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC)[
- 그도 바즈라고 불리지 않아?16:52, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC)[
- Ping User:Bb23 및 User:Sometguy1221, 이것은 몇 달 전 유후에게 블록을 만들어내지 못한 SPI의 연속인 것처럼 보인다.IP가 Toddy1과 ееп оаа о claimsо claims claims claims claims를 여전히 그들의 TL이 지난 몇 달 후에도 그에 대한 양말 puppetry를 비난하고 있는 경우.RD sockpuppet imvestigation은 그들이 원하는 대로 되지 않았다. 그렇다면 이것은 조사되어야 한다.나는 이 사용자들이 서로 참여했던 다양한 편집 전쟁에서 YuHuw의 편을 지지하지 않는다는 점에 유의하십시오.내 경험에서 일반적으로 합리적인 방식으로 행동하는 유일한 사용자는 사용자:Ian.thomson과 그는 그 내용에 대해 Toddy1과 합의했다(나는 카라이트에서 분쟁을 잠깐 검토했을 뿐이지만).누가 옳든 간에 편집전쟁은 결코 좋은 일이 아니다. 편집전쟁에 대한 비난은 편집전쟁보다 더 나쁘다는 이유만으로 반대한다. 편집전쟁은 편집전쟁보다 더 나쁜 것이다. 편집전쟁은 수개월 전에 당신이 원했던 그런 사람이 아니라서 당신을 당황하게 했던 누군가와 앙심을 품고 소모전을 벌인다.여전히 더 나쁘고, 사용자들을 괴롭히려는 것은 가장 나쁜 것이다.히지리 88 (聖や) 08:38, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[
- @Hijiri88: 위키백과 참조:Sockpuppet 조사/Vadcat/Archive.위에서 보듯이, 유휴는 여전히 자신과 의견이 다른 모든 사람들을 꼭두각시라고 비난하고 있다.--토디1 (토크) 10:14, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[하라
- 그래서 양측은 수개월 동안 서로에 대해 좋지 않은 주장을 해왔죠, 그래서?이 실마리에서 OP는 당신을 속죄한 것이 아니라 미트푸펫/"보디가드"라고 비난한 것으로 보인다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 10:18, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[
- 2016년 3월 말 SPI 폐막 후 다른 사람들이 양말 인형 의혹을 제기하고 있다면 양말 인형 의혹을 제기해야 한다.--토디1 (토크) 10:35, 2016 (UTC) 5월 (답
- 넌 증거도 없이 이 실타래에 양말퍼피로 고소당했다고 말했잖아또한 OP를 하나 이상의 명명된 계정에 연결하려고 시도하고 있으며, 여러 개의 rev-deld doxxing 시도를 방어하고 있는 것으로 보인다.나는 여기서 누구를 삭푸라기라고 부르는 것이 아니므로 증거의 부담은 내게 있지 않다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 11:07, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[
- 실제로, 그 부담은 지난 몇 달 동안 그 누구도 그 누구의 짝퉁이었다는 것을 증명하지 못한 두 명의 IP에게 있다.사정이 이러하니 어느 누구도 막대기를 떨어뜨릴 수 없다면 괴롭힘으로 막아야 한다고 제안하고 싶다.그러나 현재 상태로는 94.119.64.0/24에 감독 블록이 있다. -- The Videwalker 18:41, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[
- FYI: 87.69.184.128 아무도 IP로 당신을 편집하게 하지 않는다.이 정보를 강제로 공개해서는 안 된다. -- The Videwalker 18:53, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[하라
- 만약 내가 IP를 사용하여 편집하지 않는다면 그들은 내가 1월 이후 어떤 기사를 편집하려고 할 때마다 거의 매번 하는 영국 기반 편집자의 양말이라고 부를 것이다.나는 여기 있는 누구도 내가 누군가를 차단해 달라고 부르지도 않는다.나는 단지 편집자가 이름을 올리려고 할 때마다 내가 지명한 편집자들이 그 게시물들을 수정해 주었으면 하는 것을 나에게 증명해 줄 것을 부탁하는 것이다.사실 나는 비슷한 것을 시도했던 편집자라면 누구라도 똑같이 해 주면 고맙겠다.위키피디아는 인신공격에 직면하지 않는 내용에 관한 것이어야 한다.그러나 일부 편집자들은 콘텐츠 도전에 도전하는 사람들을 괴롭히는 것 외에는 어떻게 대응해야 하는지에 대한 단서를 잡지 못하고 있는 것 같다.나는 너무 오랫동안 괴롭힘을 당했다.사실 나는 몇 달 동안 몇 가지 일에 대해 화를 냈지만, 그 후에 항상 보상하려고 노력했다.그러나 내가 실생활에서 누구인지를 가려내는 경악과 시도는 어느 누구라도 감내할 것으로 기대되는 것 이상이다.나는 적어도 한 명의 행정관이 내 편을 들어 한 번 의혹의 혜택을 줄 자격이 있다고 생각한다.가장 좋은 안부. 87.69.184.128 (대화) 11:42, 2016년 5월 16일 (UTC)[
- 양말 투척 수사로 결백하셨군요.그러니 스틱을 버려라.--토디1 (토크) 18:13, 2016년 5월 16일 (UTC)[하라
- 더 '증명되지 않았다' 04Imperatrix Mundi:31, 2016년 5월 18일 (UTC)[
- 양말 투척 수사로 결백하셨군요.그러니 스틱을 버려라.--토디1 (토크) 18:13, 2016년 5월 16일 (UTC)[하라
- 만약 내가 IP를 사용하여 편집하지 않는다면 그들은 내가 1월 이후 어떤 기사를 편집하려고 할 때마다 거의 매번 하는 영국 기반 편집자의 양말이라고 부를 것이다.나는 여기 있는 누구도 내가 누군가를 차단해 달라고 부르지도 않는다.나는 단지 편집자가 이름을 올리려고 할 때마다 내가 지명한 편집자들이 그 게시물들을 수정해 주었으면 하는 것을 나에게 증명해 줄 것을 부탁하는 것이다.사실 나는 비슷한 것을 시도했던 편집자라면 누구라도 똑같이 해 주면 고맙겠다.위키피디아는 인신공격에 직면하지 않는 내용에 관한 것이어야 한다.그러나 일부 편집자들은 콘텐츠 도전에 도전하는 사람들을 괴롭히는 것 외에는 어떻게 대응해야 하는지에 대한 단서를 잡지 못하고 있는 것 같다.나는 너무 오랫동안 괴롭힘을 당했다.사실 나는 몇 달 동안 몇 가지 일에 대해 화를 냈지만, 그 후에 항상 보상하려고 노력했다.그러나 내가 실생활에서 누구인지를 가려내는 경악과 시도는 어느 누구라도 감내할 것으로 기대되는 것 이상이다.나는 적어도 한 명의 행정관이 내 편을 들어 한 번 의혹의 혜택을 줄 자격이 있다고 생각한다.가장 좋은 안부. 87.69.184.128 (대화) 11:42, 2016년 5월 16일 (UTC)[
- 넌 증거도 없이 이 실타래에 양말퍼피로 고소당했다고 말했잖아또한 OP를 하나 이상의 명명된 계정에 연결하려고 시도하고 있으며, 여러 개의 rev-deld doxxing 시도를 방어하고 있는 것으로 보인다.나는 여기서 누구를 삭푸라기라고 부르는 것이 아니므로 증거의 부담은 내게 있지 않다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 11:07, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[
- 2016년 3월 말 SPI 폐막 후 다른 사람들이 양말 인형 의혹을 제기하고 있다면 양말 인형 의혹을 제기해야 한다.--토디1 (토크) 10:35, 2016 (UTC) 5월 (답
- 그래서 양측은 수개월 동안 서로에 대해 좋지 않은 주장을 해왔죠, 그래서?이 실마리에서 OP는 당신을 속죄한 것이 아니라 미트푸펫/"보디가드"라고 비난한 것으로 보인다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 10:18, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[
- @Hijiri88: 위키백과 참조:Sockpuppet 조사/Vadcat/Archive.위에서 보듯이, 유휴는 여전히 자신과 의견이 다른 모든 사람들을 꼭두각시라고 비난하고 있다.--토디1 (토크) 10:14, 2016년 5월 15일 (UTC)[하라
나는 감독 권한이 있는 누군가에게 내 정체를 알아맞히기 위해 모든 시도를 해달라는 요청을 반복한다.No one should suffer this sort of harassment. 87.69.184.128 (talk) 08:52, 21 May 2016 (UTC) P.S. Voidwalker, this [23] is an example of the countless sort of cruel and baseless edit summary insults which forced me to use my IP to edit instead of my Username. 87.69.184.128 (talk) 20:30, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- 나는 너의 실생활의 정체성을 추측하려는 것이 아니라, 너의 WP 정체성을 알고 싶어.유후야, 아니야?예, 아니오.아니오인 경우 이 편집 [24]에 대해 설명하십시오.EENG 02:49, 2016년 5월 22일 (UTC)[
위키-abusers가 나처럼 모든 종류의 IP 주소를 주장한다면, 내가 영국을 기반으로 하지 않는다는 것을 증명할 수 있는 유일한 방법은 일반 IP에서 편집하는 것이라고 나는 생각했다.내가 YuHuw로 편집하면 그들은 내 이름을 알아맞히려고 하고 당신은 내 자신의 토크 페이지에 있는 재조작을 통해 그들이 나에게도 꽤 욕설을 퍼붓고 있다는 것을 알 수 있다.나는 그들이 얼마나 많은 실존 인물인지 모르지만 적어도 나는 누군가가 그들이 나에게 이름을 지어주려고 노력했던 장소들을 고쳐주었으면 좋겠다.위키 외출 정책에 따라 내 권리라고 알고 있는데, 그렇지?그 후 나에 대한 신상정보(예: 내 IP 편집)를 드러내는 나만의 편집이 무색했으면 좋겠고, 그런 사람들에게 다시는 속지 않도록 유후로 다시 편집으로 돌아가겠다.이게 내가 바라는 전부야.그 후에도 괴롭힘이 계속된다면, 나는 그 강박적인 트롤들로부터 나의 정체성을 보호하기 위해 같은 조치가 취해지길 바란다.유후 (토크) 87.69.184.128 (토크) 16:20, 2016년 5월 23일 (UTC)[
- IP 편집자의 이 편집이 당신에 의한 편집이라고 잘못 생각한 것은 매우 유감이다.제 사과를 받아주십시오.사용자로만 로그인한 경우:유후. IP로 편집하면 당신과 같은 영역에서 편집하는 다른 편집자와 혼동하게 된다. --토디1 (토크) 16:53, 2016년 5월 23일 (UTC)[
- 미안하다고 말하는 것은 쉽다. 당신의 ** 5개월** 욕설의 낙오자를 청소하는 것은 쉽지 않다.그러나 당신의 사과에 비추어 볼 때, 나는 당신이 나를 다른 사람(또는 처음부터 내가 어디에 있는지 알았을 때 당신이 이스라엘 바깥에 있는 것처럼)으로 묘사하기 위해 노력하는 당신의 편집 요약과 토크 페이지 논평들을 가지고 있는 것에 대해 반대하지 않을 것이라고 확신한다 [25] [26].[27]을(를) WP의 근거지로 삼았던 Toddy1을 잊지 말자.COVER는 나를 카즈라고 수없이 불렀고, 그래서 전에 나와 아무런 상호작용이 없었던 사람들은 당신이 나를 욕하는 것에 영향을 받았다.당신은 처음부터 당신의 고용주와의 논의에서 출발했다. (나는 돈을 주고받는 것이 아니라 이것은 분명한 고용이다.) 처음부터 단 하나의 목표만을 가지고 있었고, 그것은 모든 사람들에게 내가 아닌 사람이라는 것을 납득시키기 위한 것이었다.그럼에도 불구하고, 만약 당신이 정말로 스틱을 내려놓고 새로운 시작을 할 의향이 있다면 그리고 당신의 코멘트를 수정한다면, 나는 당신의 사과를 받아들이게 되어 매우 기쁘다.나는 원한을 풀지 않고 당신과 함께 수 없이 다시 시작할 용의가 있었다.유후 (토크) 87.69.184.128 (토크) 06:29, 2016년 5월 24일 (UTC)[
- 적극적인 제재가 없다면 WP:CLEARSTART는 옵션이다.블랙매인 (대화) 02:47, 2016년 5월 24일 (UTC)[
- WP:CLEINSTART는 나를 괴롭힘으로써 WP를 a로 악용해 온 모든 사람들에게 적용하기에 좋은 발상이 될 것이다.그동안 어떤 식으로든 내 이름을 밝히거나 신원을 확인하려는 사람들에 의해 편집된 내용을 수정해 달라는 나의 요청은 모두 수정해 주길 바란다.나는 WP에 맞추어 이것을 묻고 있다.GOADING. 나를 괴롭혀온 그 계정들을 대변할 수는 없지만, 제재가 무슨 뜻인지 이해한다면 나는 개인적으로 나에 대한 어떠한 제재도 받은 적이 없다는 것을 확인할 수 있다.유후 (토크) 87.69.184.128 (토크) 06:29, 2016년 5월 24일 (UTC)[
비록, 당연히 토디1은 이 ANI 불평이 еоп оаоо about에 대한 불평일 때마다 언제나처럼 자신에 대한 것이라고 생각한다.이 불만 사항의 주제가 User:Неполканов tries to name me.나는 그것을 수정해 주길 바란다.유후 (토크) 87.69.184.128 (토크) 06:29, 2016년 5월 24일 (UTC)[
- 계정을 가진 사람이 일부러 익명 IP 편집자로 편집을 선택하면 그 결과에 대해 어느 정도 책임을 져야 한다.그것은 양말 조각처럼 보인다.해당 사용자를 승인함:유후는 그것을 양말 퍼피리(sock-pupetry)라고 의도하지 않았다.어떤 IP가 자신이었는지 분명히 밝힌 게 도움이 됐다.IP 편집기로 편집하면 어떤 사용자인지 사람들이 궁금해할 것이다.그리고 어떤 때는, 그들이 그것을 잘못 이해하게 될 것이다.
- 나는 WP:Cleanstart에 반대한다.때로는 유후의 편집과 카즈의 편집을 구별하기가 매우 어렵다.나는 솔직히 그들이 같은 사람이라고 생각했다.그러나 양말 꼭두각시 조사가 있어 유후를 무혐의로 처리하고, 이들이 명백히 다른 민족임을 입증했다.우리가 유후가 편집했다고 믿는 이스라엘 IP의 모든 편집이 유후가 편집한 것이고, 아주 유사한 영국 IP 편집이 유후가 편집한 것이 하나도 없다면, 그 사람이 누구였는지 궁금할 수밖에 없다.
- 유후, 계속 편집해 주십시요. 하지만 유후로 로그인하여 카즈가 아닌 당신임을 알 수 있도록 하십시오.그리고 나를 "고기 인형"이라고 부르지 마.-- 토디1 (토크) 08:17, 2016년 5월 24일 (UTC)[하라
- 당신이 처음부터 내가 영국을 기반으로 한 편집자가 아니라는 것을 알았다는 것은 위에서 증명된 바 있지만 나를 그처럼 보이게 하기 위해 당신의 힘을 다해 노력했다.당신은 누군가가 이스라엘 IP가 아닌 사람들이 누구인지 궁금해 해야 한다고 말하지만 그들 중 몇몇은 아마도 당신의 팀 출신일 것이다.너는 아직 미트푸페티를 벗지 못했다.당신이 피고인을 돕기 위해 계속 개입하는 것은 당신에게 불리한 실질적인 증거만 더해줄 뿐이다.위에서 설명했듯이, 당신과 당신의 팀(특히 당신이 항상 여기에 포함시키기 위해 개입하는 사람)은 내가 IP로 독점적으로 편집을 시작한 지 오래될 때까지 나를 편집자로 묘사하려고 계속 시도했는데, 그것은 내 권리고 내가 항상 분명히 이것이 유후라는 것을 분명히 하기 때문에 나를 식별하기 쉽다.나는 내 IP를 노출하는 YuHuw로 편집하는 것이 내 권한이며 재조정이 시작될 때까지 계속 그렇게 할 것이다.
나는 다시 불평의 화제로 돌아가도록 노력할 것이다.비록, 당연히 토디1은 이 ANI 불평이 еоп оаоо about에 대한 불평일 때마다 언제나처럼 자신에 대한 것이라고 생각한다.이 불만 사항의 주제가 User:Неполканов tries to name me.나는 그것을 수정해 주길 바란다.유후 (토크) 87.69.184.128 (토크) 15:16, 2016년 5월 24일 (UTC)[하라
첫마디!!!유후 (토크) 87.69.184.128 (토크) 03:51, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
여기에 이 문제를 다룰 만큼 유능한 사람이 없다면, WP를 다루는 진정한/진짜 관리자의 관심을 끌 수 있는 게시물이 있는가?빠르고 효과적으로 외출.유후 (토크) 87.69.184.128 (토크) 16:53, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
- User_talk:를 참조하십시오.유후 #아큐시스.사용자:거기에 글을 올린 리즈는 관리자다.--토디1 (토크) 19:08, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
토디1의 논평 ^은 전혀 무관하다.내 IP와 YuHuw ID 사이의 연관성은 숨긴 적이 없다. 가장 최근 WP 이전인 [28]을 참조하라.위키 가이드라인에 따라야 할 GOADING 시도는 내가 12일 전에 요청하자마자 수정되었다.내가 애논 IP로 편집만 하고 사용자 계정이 없었더라도, 라우팅을 시도한 것은 여전히 시도된 것이며, 그 시도가 정확한지 아닌지는 다른 모든 외출 시도는 다루어지기 때문에 다루어져야 한다.WP에 맞춰 편집 내용을 수정해 줄 것을 감독 관리자에게 요청한다.더 이상 지체하지 말고 GOADING.유후 (토크) 87.69.184.128 (토크) 20:41, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
- Per WP:OUTING: "모든 편집자는 즉시 "아웃"되어야 하며, 위키백과에서 해당 편집을 영구적으로 삭제하라는 감독 요청이 뒤따른다."감독 요청 도움말은 WP:Requests_for_overvight를 참조하십시오.또는 편집할 때 이 페이지의 맨 위에 있는 분홍색 상자를 읽으십시오.미스틱단 (토크)20:31, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
- 고마워, 편지 썼는데 이메일 주소가 안 되고 irc:///irc.freenode.net/#revdel 링크도 죽은 것 같아.나는 관리자를 알지 못하기 때문에 개인적으로 다른 관리자에게 그동안 수정사항(본 ANI 요청에 포함된 수정사항 포함)을 삭제하도록 요청한다.유후 (대화)20:34, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
사용자:유휴는 외출을 무기한 금지한 상태로 몇 달 동안 삭제해야 하는 심각한 사업이기 때문에 wp와 ping에서 관리자 목록을 최대한 확인할 수 있다.FAMASFRENODE (대화) 17:05, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- 5일 전에 나타나서 관리자 요청을 작성하려고 하셨는데요.저거 어떻게 된 거예요?【베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→ 17:24, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 주제에서 벗어나지 마십시오.FAMASFRENODE와 얘기해보시죠 여기 없는 그의 벽에서요
파마스프레노데, 만약 당신이 오버래이터를 핑하는 것에 대해 아는 것이 있다면, 그들 모두를 핑하십시오.이런 외출 사고는 반달 이상 감독팀에 의해 처리되지 않았다는 사실은 이 이사회나 심지어 감독 받은 편지함을 지켜보는 심각한 관리자들이 있다는 생각을 심각하게 훼손한다.GOADING 방침은 분명하지만, 제공된 것으로 추정되는 길도 죽은 것으로 보인다.유후 87.69.184.128 (대화) 18:53, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
윌리엄 L.우안나
| 이 단계에서는 주제 금지 또는 기타 제재에 대한 합의가 이루어지지 않는다. WP의 오랜 역사 후에:IDDNTHEARTHEARTH, 이러한 의혹은 CIC7이 기사 William L을 편집하지 않겠다는 약속을 포함한 미래의 선행을 보증하는 것으로 이어졌다. CIC7이 COI를 가지고 있는 Uanna.그러나 COI 편집 등 관련 위법행위가 몇 년째 계속되고 있으며, CIC7은 이전에도 경고를 받은 바 있다.따라서 만약 이러한 확신이 지켜지지 않는다면, 이것을 WP 이외의 다른 것으로 보기는 어려울 것이다.NOTHERE 사례 ... 따라서 신속한 제재가 가능할 것 같다. --BrownHairdGirl (대화) • (출연) 16:27, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이해 상충이 선언된 사용자(주제의 아들)는 William L의 기사에서 독창적인 연구/트리비아/퍼피를 놓고 편집전을 벌이고 있다. 우안나. [31] [32] [33]을 참조하십시오.우리는 여기 ANi와 기사토크 페이지에서 문자 그대로 몇 년 전으로 돌아가기 전에 이 길을 걸어왔고, 편집자는 WP에 깊이 빠져있다.idnthear that-land.그림 9 (대화 • 기여) 20:51, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나는 편집 일지를 다 읽었고 나는 내가 꽤 명확한 그림을 가지고 있다고 믿는다.이 사용자는 그들의 의도만큼 고귀한 것인지는 몰라도 자신의 친밀한 지식을 전하기를 고집하고 있는 것이 아니다.그들은 좋은 의도를 가지고 있지만 주의하지 않기 때문에, 나는 주제 금지를 제안한다.다스보토 talk•cont 21:09, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
- 세컨드.142.105.159.60 (대화) 22:20, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
- 두 개가 지난 시간 내에 되돌아오고,
이것은 이 편집기를 3RR을 위반할수도 있고아닐 수도 있다.지난 24시간 동안 5개가 되돌아간다.이 편집자는 그 페이지의 편집자들이 한결같이 그 주제에 감탄하고 이 편집자의 주장된 개인사에 흥미를 느끼기 때문에 많은 해고를 당했다.그러나 그는 그것을 전권을 위임하는 청신호로 받아들였다.작년에 그는 아버지의 죽음에 관한 모종의 음모론을 밀어붙이고 있었다.FOI 요청에서 복을 빼냈어끝이 아니고 "귀여운 위키백과 규칙을 지켜달라"는 단계가 우리 뒤에 있다.그림 9(대화 • 기여) 23:53, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[- 24시간 동안 차단됨.이것은 주제 금지 아이디어에 대한 논평으로 의도된 것이 아니다. 계속해서 그 제안에 대한 의견을 제시하라.나이튼 (대화) 00:52, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 주제 금지에 대한 나의 제안은 내가 가장 이상적인 해결책일 뿐만 아니라 이 경우 최소한이라고 여기는 것임을 분명히 하라.무한정 혹은 광범위하게 차단된 모습을 보고 싶지는 않지만(적어도 아직까지는), 그들이 자신을 파악할 수 있는 시간이 될 때까지 이 주제에 손을 대지 못하도록 하는 것이 신중하다는 생각이 든다.그들은 그 제한을 다른 위키백과 내용을 배우고 개선하는 데 초점을 맞출 수 있다.다스봇토 talk•cont 00:58, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그 블록은 순전히 편집-전쟁을 위한 것이지 COI 편집이나 그런 것을 위한 것이 아니었다.이 논의의 존재를 감안할 때, 어떤 행정관이 토론에 주의를 기울이지 않고 그러한 이유로 단기 차단을 발행한다면 그것은 파괴적일 것이다.나이튼드 (대화) 01:04, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 이게 코인이 맡는 게 좋은 케이스일까?COI 관련 POV가 여기서 이슈가 되는 것 같기 때문에 ANI보다 정리하는 것이 좋을 것 같다.142.105.159.60 (토크) 01:09, 2016년 5월 27 (UTC)[
- 그 블록은 순전히 편집-전쟁을 위한 것이지 COI 편집이나 그런 것을 위한 것이 아니었다.이 논의의 존재를 감안할 때, 어떤 행정관이 토론에 주의를 기울이지 않고 그러한 이유로 단기 차단을 발행한다면 그것은 파괴적일 것이다.나이튼드 (대화) 01:04, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 주제 금지에 대한 나의 제안은 내가 가장 이상적인 해결책일 뿐만 아니라 이 경우 최소한이라고 여기는 것임을 분명히 하라.무한정 혹은 광범위하게 차단된 모습을 보고 싶지는 않지만(적어도 아직까지는), 그들이 자신을 파악할 수 있는 시간이 될 때까지 이 주제에 손을 대지 못하도록 하는 것이 신중하다는 생각이 든다.그들은 그 제한을 다른 위키백과 내용을 배우고 개선하는 데 초점을 맞출 수 있다.다스봇토 talk•cont 00:58, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 24시간 동안 차단됨.이것은 주제 금지 아이디어에 대한 논평으로 의도된 것이 아니다. 계속해서 그 제안에 대한 의견을 제시하라.나이튼 (대화) 00:52, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 두 개가 지난 시간 내에 되돌아오고,
- 세컨드.142.105.159.60 (대화) 22:20, 2016년 5월 26일 (UTC)[
- 아까 ANI 스레드에 댓글을 달았는데.너희들이 너무 물어뜯는 것 같아.나는 일단 주제 금지에 반대한다.우리는 CIC7의 모든 것을 건설적으로 또는 지금에 이르지 않았기 때문에 아직 그렇게 할 수 있는 여지가 있다.코인은 과잉 살상으로 보인다.Figureof9는 또한 내 의견의 전쟁을 편집하여 하루도 안되어 3배로 되돌아가고 있다[34][35][36]. 그리고 그 역사를 두고 어느 정도 기사를 내려놓고 있는 것 같다.그림 9, 좀 진정해 줄래?CIC7은 기사에 가져올 수 있는 좋은 자원이 있는 것 같고, 우리가 할 수 있는 범위 내에서 그를 수용하여 우리의 콘텐츠 접근방식과 양립할 수 없는 그의 기여에 관한 문제를 그와 함께 해결하도록 해야 한다. (대화) 06:33, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 실례합니다만"빌어먹을?"농담이겠지.CIC7은 내가 위키피디아를 편집해 왔다.그는 6년 동안 위키피디아를 편집해 왔다.그의 유일한 그리고 전체 초점은 그가 그의 아버지라고 말하는 사람에 대한 기사를 편집하는 것이었다(나는 그를 믿는다, 검증할 수 없지만, 나는 그를 믿는다), 그것은 주요 내용으로는 독창적인 연구와 음모론, 그리고 가장 최근에는 독창적인 연구와 노골적인 부풀리기를 동시에 하는 자료의 추가가 있다.그는 규칙을 알고, 조금도 개의치 않고 결코 하지 않았다.그는 최고의 예우를 받았고 WP가 무엇을 잘 알고 있다.OR은 그에게 여러 번 지적되었기 때문이다.가장 최근의 상황에서 나는 그 문제를 토크 페이지에 올렸고 그는 그것을 무시했다.그 페이지의 다른 편집자들은 부정적인 내용을 추가하려고 하지 않는다; 반대로, 우리는 모두 맨해튼 프로젝트에 관심이 있고 오히려 우아나를 존경하며 그것을 GA 지위에 올려놓기 위해 노력했다.그는 가족관계로 인해 특별히 신사적인 배려를 받았으나 그만하면 충분하다.
- 나는 일단 주제 금지를 선호하지만 기사 토크 페이지가 아닌 기사 자체에 적용되는 경우에만 찬성한다.그 기사에서는 그의 행동이 불쾌하다.마지막으로 나는 WP가 있다는 IP에 동의한다.자신의 상황.CIC7은 그 기사를 만들었고 그것의 편집을 지배해왔다.어제 그의 다섯 번의 복귀 중 마지막 두 번은 다른 편집자[37][38]에 의해 삭제된 불요불요불요불요불요불요불요불요불요불요불복직이었다. 그 중에는 "그의 어머니가 1948년 결혼한 직후에 그의 새 신부 보니에게 했던 조언 중 하나는 '그가 햇빛을 피하게 하면, 그는 검게 변한다.'는 것이었다." 이 편집자는 6년이 지난 후에도 그러한 소재가 아니라는 것을 알고 있다고 생각한다.수긍할 수 있는그림 9(대화 • 기여) 12:42, 2016년 5월 27일(UTC)[
- 안녕, 여기는 늦었고 나는 지금 오래 머무를 수 없지만, 나는 CIC7의 몇몇 다른 요소들이 특히 너 스스로에게 최고의 예의를 갖추어 대접받는 것을 보고 싶다.호크예7은 CIC7의 사용자 토크 페이지에 건설적인 제안을 했고, Jytdog는 카피파스타처럼 보이지만 최소한 공손한 COI에 대한 메모를 남겼다.그러나 내가 자네에게서 그에게 향했던 그 말들은 가장 보기엔 무뚝뚝해 보였다.그는 그 기사에 많은 내용을 기고했는데, 어떤 부분은 문제가 있었고, 어떤 부분은 되돌아가기도 했지만, 다른 부분은 완벽하게 잘 되어 있고 기사에도 실려 있다.그래서 그 기사는 그에게 유리한 말을 하는 그의 참여로 이득을 보았다.그렇다 그는 아직 중립적으로 편집하는 요령을 터득하지 못한 채 몇 년 동안 존재했지만, 그는 총 180개의 편집본을 가지고 있다. 이것은 확실히 아직 새로운 단계에 있다.그래서 지금까지 ANI에서 있었던 일보다 더 우아하게 처리할 수 있을 것 같아. 50.0.121.79 (토크) 07:12, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 일단 주제 금지를 선호하지만 기사 토크 페이지가 아닌 기사 자체에 적용되는 경우에만 찬성한다.그 기사에서는 그의 행동이 불쾌하다.마지막으로 나는 WP가 있다는 IP에 동의한다.자신의 상황.CIC7은 그 기사를 만들었고 그것의 편집을 지배해왔다.어제 그의 다섯 번의 복귀 중 마지막 두 번은 다른 편집자[37][38]에 의해 삭제된 불요불요불요불요불요불요불요불요불요불요불복직이었다. 그 중에는 "그의 어머니가 1948년 결혼한 직후에 그의 새 신부 보니에게 했던 조언 중 하나는 '그가 햇빛을 피하게 하면, 그는 검게 변한다.'는 것이었다." 이 편집자는 6년이 지난 후에도 그러한 소재가 아니라는 것을 알고 있다고 생각한다.수긍할 수 있는그림 9(대화 • 기여) 12:42, 2016년 5월 27일(UTC)[
- 사이트 금지.분명히 과거 어느 시점에 그의 아버지에게 저질러졌던 큰 잘못을 바로잡기 위해 여기 온 것이 분명한데, 여기에는 살인도 포함된다(그의 토크 페이지에 게재된 어떤 몰보에 의하면).주제 금지의 문제는 그가 다시 존 F에서 마술을 부릴 것이라는 것이다. 케네디나 존 F. 케네디는 음모론을 암살했다.편집자는 내가 강요당했다고 생각하지 않는 기사 편집 금지를 호소한 것에서 증명하듯이, 단서와 비슷한 어떤 것도 신선하게 자유롭다.그래, 너는 그와 잘 어울릴 수 있고 그에게 러브 노트를 떨어뜨릴 수 있어. 그리고 그는 계속 그럴 거야.코레더애플 (대화) 18:08, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 위의 첫 번째 케네디 diff에 대한 문제는 이해할 수 없다. (두 번째 케네디 different Kennedy diff의 문제는 이해할 수 없다.당시 잘 문서화된 문제(케네디 카톨릭이 교회와 미국 사이의 충성심을 분열시킬 것인가)에 대한 합리적인 내용을 복원한 것으로 보인다.그것은 케네디가 댈러스 무역 마트에서 연설하려고 했던 것을 언급했고, 시민권 발표에서 인용했다.저것들이 인용구를 썼을 수도 있어. 그게 문제야?웹 검색[39][40]으로 각각을 확인하는 데 약 2초가 걸려 금지 근거로 보지 않는다.
Hawkeye7(말·공헌)은 이것에 대해 할 말이 있는가?Hawkeye7은 Uanna 기사에 상당한 기여를 했다. 그래서 나는 이것을 어떻게 해야 할지 다른 사람들보다 그들의 관점에 더 비중을 두겠다.피규어포나인은 우아나 기사를 여러 번 편집해 보았지만, 내가 알 수 있는 한 모두 반전, 태깅, 그리고 몇 가지 사소한 카피티트(뭔가를 놓쳤다면 디프스(diffs)를 해 주면 고맙겠다.코레더애플은 2000개가 넘는 기사에 대해 기사 공간에서 약 7k의 편집을 했지만, 거의 모든 편집이 되돌아가며, 편집된 내용 중 0개는 우아나 기사에 있다.그래서 이것은 최근 몇 년간 위키피디아에 나쁜 평판을 준 관료주의의 상징처럼 보인다.
CIC7이 기사를 쓰는 다른 사람들에게 어려움을 주고 있다면, 그 내용을 작가 자신으로부터, 즉, 금지를 진행하기 전에 되돌리거나 재배치하는 것 보다 실질적인 유익한 글을 추가한 사람들로부터 듣고 싶다.CIC7의 편집은 완벽과는 거리가 멀지만, 그는 분명히 Figureofnine이나 Coretheapple보다 기사에 더 많은 가치를 제공했다. 그래서 만약 우리가 누군가를 금지한다면 우리는 후자의 두 가지를 선택하는 것이 더 나을 것이다.50.0.121.79 (대화) 04:42, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 맨해튼 프로젝트를 따내기 위한 노력의 일환으로, 나는 윌리엄 L을 편집했다. 우안나가 GA과정에 참여하게 될거야CIC7은 나보다 두 배나 많은 변화를 주었지만 우리 사이에서는 기사 본문의 95%를 기고했다.내 생각에 그 기사는 상태가 꽤 좋은 것 같아.CIC7은 훌륭한 협력자였으며, 주로 기사의 클레임을 뒷받침하는 출처를 위해 나의 요청에 항상 협조적이고 협조적으로 대응해 왔다.나는 CIC7에서 온 것이 아니라, 운동선수들이 그들 자신의 기사를 편집하는 것에 대해 골머리를 앓아왔다.호크예7 (대화) 09:46, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- Hawkeye7, 독자들은 OR 때문에 원래 GA nom이 실패했고 또한 이 편집자가 OR과 복어를 이번 주까지 연장된 기간 동안 보관하기 위해 편집한 것에 주목한다.나는 그가 그것에 대해 차단당했다는 것을 안다.나는 또한 그의 아버지가 살해되고, 가상의 영화로 보내지고, 그 이상의 증거도 없이, 그의 노력이 당신을 조금도 괴롭히지 않았다는 것도 주목한다.[42]
- 나는 방금 그 기사의 소싱을 살펴보았다.기사의 중요한 부분은 "CIC777"에 의해 하원에 업로드된 주요 출처 문서로 소싱되며, 나는 이 편집자와 동일하다고 생각한다."그의 주장을 뒷받침할 자료"는 그가 개인적으로 획득한 자료로 보이며, 하원에 "발표"된 것으로 보인다.WP처럼 보인다.Primary는 WP와 함께 이 기사에서 변기를 씻어 내렸다.COI. COI 편집자가 제공한 자체 발행 문서에 대한 광범위한 텍스트에 의존하는 기사가 "아주 좋은 상태"라는 것에 나는 더 이상 반대할 수 없다.기사는 이 다소 한계적인 인물에 대한 기념비처럼 읽혀지고 있으며, 그의 아들이 주요 작가라는 점에서 나는 놀라지 않는다.코레더애플 (대화) 13:08, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그 기사는 GA를 통과했다. 그래서 다른 편집자들은 그것이 좋은 상태라고 여긴다.너는 어쨌든 그것을 발설하고 싶은 것처럼 들린다.다른 취미를 찾아야 할 것 같아.50.0.121.79 (대화) 05:52, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 위의 첫 번째 케네디 diff에 대한 문제는 이해할 수 없다. (두 번째 케네디 different Kennedy diff의 문제는 이해할 수 없다.당시 잘 문서화된 문제(케네디 카톨릭이 교회와 미국 사이의 충성심을 분열시킬 것인가)에 대한 합리적인 내용을 복원한 것으로 보인다.그것은 케네디가 댈러스 무역 마트에서 연설하려고 했던 것을 언급했고, 시민권 발표에서 인용했다.저것들이 인용구를 썼을 수도 있어. 그게 문제야?웹 검색[39][40]으로 각각을 확인하는 데 약 2초가 걸려 금지 근거로 보지 않는다.
영화 종편 크레딧과 관련해서는 이전 ANI(작년보다 2014년 8월, 큰 wh)에 왜 사용을 지지했는지 글을 올렸다.의무적으로 포함시키거나 제외시키는 것에 대한 강력한 정책적 근거가 없기 때문에 합리적인 사람들이 동의하지 않을 수 있는 편집적 판단의 문제다.나 자신도 NPOV(우아나의 죽음에 대한 공식 설명에 비해 체중이 감소된 상태)에 포함시켜, 다른 주장이 설득력을 얻고 있다고 소통하는 것이 좋은, 유익한 기여라고 본다.독자로서는 그 주장에 회의적이지만, 그 존재에 대해 알려준 것은 고맙다.
나는 미묘한 점을 다르게 저울질하고 "nah"를 결정하는 다른 사람을 이해할 수 있지만, 내가 Figureofnine (그리고 지금 CTA)에서 보는 위키와잉과 대립은 내가 앞에서 WP라고 설명한 것이다.CTA는 그것을 "쓰레기"라고 부르며 다시 제거했다.[43] 나는 그것이 과도하고 CTA측의 객관성 결여를 보여준다고 생각한다.
이것에 대한 CTA의 전체적인 접근은 나에게 엄청나게 호전적인 것으로 보인다.그가 그것을 막지 않는다면 나는 그에 대한 행정 개입을 지지할 것이다.WP: Civility와 collegality는 여전히 중요한 것으로 여겨진다.앞으로 며칠 동안은 편집은 하지 않겠지만, 토마스와 모건 위트의 책(영화가 원작인 책)이 윌리엄 우안나의 궁극적인 운명에 대해 어떤 말을 하고 있는지 알아낼 수 있을지 지켜볼 것이다.
FWIW, 내가 전에 그 기사를 편집한 적이 없는 것 같아.나는 영화 크레딧을 포함시키는 것을 지지했지만 다른 사람(CIC7)이 그것을 넣었다.일단 안녕. 50.0.121.79 (대화) 05:52, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- WP:OWN? 피험자의 아들이 기사를 작성했고 [44]는 그의 아버지에 대한 기사의 편집 10개 중 4개를 책임진다.Hawkeye7은 또 다른 23%의 편집이 있다.도표 9 10%.이 페이지에 언급할 다른 편집자는 없다.나는 두 개의 태그를 추가하고 한 개의 편집을 했다.너의 계속적인 거짓 진술은 방해가 되므로 제발 그만둬라.그렇다, 이 기사는 소싱에 관한 사이트 정책을 위반했음에도 불구하고 GA를 통과했다.만약 내가 그 일이 일어날 때마다 니켈을 가지고 있다면 나는 아마 나만의 위키피디아를 시작할 수 있을 것이다.대부분의 각주는 하원에 업로드된 문서로 가고 나는 지역사회의 재평가를 시작했기 때문에 이 기사는 빨리 실패했어야 했다.미스터 50, 당신이 거짓 진술, 인신공격, 트롤링으로 단순 COI 상황을 끈질기게 교란시킨 것으로 보아, 나는 당신이 공개하지 않는 사용자 이름이 꽤 다채로운 역사를 가지고 있다고 생각한다.코레더애플 (대화) 11시 55분, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
제안된 사용자 주제 금지:CIC7
CIC7(토크 · 기여)에 대해 주제 금지를 가해야 할 때라고 생각한다.
나는 이전에 이것에 관여하지 않았지만, 위에 제시된 증거로부터 다음과 같이 명백하다.
- CIC7은 WP를 가지고 있다.COI는 William L이라는 기사를 썼다. 우안나[45]
- CIC7은 WP로 이동한다.RIGHTGREATWRONS, 그의 아버지와 관련된 독창적인 연구를 발표함 [46]
- CIC7은 WP에 대해 반복적으로 경고를 받았다.NOR, WP:위키백과에서 사용될 수 있는 방식으로 정보를 게시하는 방법에 대한 제약사항을 설명하고 제안사항을 제공한 편집자에 의한 COI 및 기타 관련 정책
- 이것은 2014년 8월 ANI 토론의 주제였다: 위키백과:관리자 게시판/IncidentArchive851#William_L._우안나
- 많은 편집자들은 주제에서 CIC7의 열의를 높이 평가하며 CIC7이 건설적으로 기여할 수 있도록 도와주려고 노력해왔다.
- 이러한 오랜 경고에도 불구하고, CIC7은 2016년 5월에 COI가 있는 기사에 비소싱 원본 연구를 삽입하기 위해 편집전을 벌여왔다. [47], [48], [49]
그래서 나는 다음을 제안한다: CIC7은 윌리엄 L 기사를 편집하는 것이 무기한 금지되어 있다. Uanna와 관련된 주제들은 거의 이해되었다. CIC7은 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 바탕으로 한 제안된 변경사항에 대해 해당 기사의 토크 페이지와 기타 토론 페이지를 사용할 것을 권장한다.
이를 통해 CIC7이 정책을 위반하여 계속 편집하는 것을 막되, CIC7이 다른 편집자들이 주제와 관련된 기사를 개선하고 확장하는데 도움을 줄 수 있기를 바란다. --BrownHairdGirl (대화) • (기고) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)
- 이와 같은 편집이 주제 금지에 포함된다는 것을 명확하게 이해한다면 지원.초안대로 확실하지는 않다.코레더애플 (대화) 17:08, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @Coretheapple: 내 의도는 그와 같은 편집은 금지 조항으로 분명히 다루어져야 한다는 것이었다. 왜냐하면 만약 우리가 단 하나의 기사에서만 금지한다면 윌리엄 L에 대한 내용을 담고 있기 때문이다. Uanna는 모든 범위의 기사에 분산될 수 있다.내가 하고 싶지 않았던 것은 예를 들어 CIC7이 그의 아버지가 살고 있는 어딘가에 관한 기사를 편집하여 그의 아버지와 무관한 내용을 추가하는 것을 금지하는 것이었다.당신의 예와 같은 자료를 다른 기사에 추가하는 것이 충분히 명확하기를 바라지만, 나는 상황을 더 명확하게 하기 위해 다른 표현에 대한 어떠한 제안도 받아들일 수 있다. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contracts) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @BrownHailedGirl:알았다.아마도 "좀 더 경솔하게" 해석될 수 있을 것이다.나는 그저 미래를 내다보고 있을 뿐인데, 순응할 가능성은 희박하기 때문이다.이 편집자는 그의 탐구에 열심인 것 같다. 그래서 나는 사이트 금지를 지지했다.내 경험에 따르면 그러한 편집자들은 그 프로젝트에 지독하게 낭비될 수 있다. 그리고 당신은 위의 엉망진창인 토론과 아래의 COI 편집자의 논평에서 그 측면들을 볼 수 있다.나는 이 기사의 보증되지 않은 GA 상태에 대한 지역사회의 재평가를 시작했지만, 그것은 정말로 내장을 제거하고 적절히 소싱되어야 한다.나는 그가 주로 그의 OR을 추진하기 위해 사용해왔던 토크 페이지에 COI 편집자의 건설적인 기여와 신뢰할 수 있는 2차 소스를 제공하려는 노력을 보지 않는다.구글 북스 검색에는 적어도 두 권의 책이 우아나에 대해 토론하고 있다.그 중 한 명이 아들의 음모론을 각주로 일축하고 있기 때문에 이 글에는 그 어느 것도 언급되지 않는다.이것은 해군연구소 출판부에서 발간한 우안나[53]에 관한 많은 자료로, 꽤 칭찬할 만한 책이지만, 기사에 한 마디도 없지만 COI 편집자가 하원에 업로드한 많은 접선 OR이 있다.그것은 편집자들이 소싱을 위해 COI 편집자들에게 의존할 때 일어나는 일이고, 그것은 Hawkeye7의 논평을 그 기사가 얼마나 훌륭한 형태인지 그리고 그 COI 편집자가 얼마나 훌륭한 기여자였는지 믿지 않는다.그렇다, 만약 당신이 COI의 에듀토어의 어젠다를 무시하고 기사 출처의 질에 무관심하다면, 훌륭하다.코레더애플 (대화) 20:34, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @Coretheapple: 내 의도는 그와 같은 편집은 금지 조항으로 분명히 다루어져야 한다는 것이었다. 왜냐하면 만약 우리가 단 하나의 기사에서만 금지한다면 윌리엄 L에 대한 내용을 담고 있기 때문이다. Uanna는 모든 범위의 기사에 분산될 수 있다.내가 하고 싶지 않았던 것은 예를 들어 CIC7이 그의 아버지가 살고 있는 어딘가에 관한 기사를 편집하여 그의 아버지와 무관한 내용을 추가하는 것을 금지하는 것이었다.당신의 예와 같은 자료를 다른 기사에 추가하는 것이 충분히 명확하기를 바라지만, 나는 상황을 더 명확하게 하기 위해 다른 표현에 대한 어떠한 제안도 받아들일 수 있다. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contracts) 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @BrownHailedGirl: 기사를 업그레이드 할 때 출판되지도 않은 책을 사용하지 않았다고 비난하는 것은 완전히 불공평하다고 생각한다.호크예7 (대화) 06:00, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
여보세요. 여기서 외부 중재를 요청하고 싶은데.나는 나의 COI를 인정했다.그러나 윌리엄 L에서 꺼낸 많은 것.우안나는 신문 기사나 FOI 문서를 통해 검증 가능하다.그것들은 내 기억이나 친척들의 기억만이 아니다.CIC7 (대화) 17:23, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
미안해, 내가 원하는 것은 중재가 아니라 중재라고 생각해.CIC7 (대화) 2016년 5월 30일 17시 40분 (UTC)[
- 지지하다.위키피디아는 웹 출판사가 아니다.CIC7은 구글이 제공하는 저렴한 서비스 중 하나를 조사할 필요가 있다.2600:1017:B40F:A478:44:8E3B:210:559D (대화) 11:07, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 일단 반대하라 우선, 나는 CIC7의 행동이 받아들일 수 없는 것이었고 그가 과거에 템플릿과 요청에 응답하지 않았다는 것에 동의한다.내 감각은 이제 그의 관심이 이 실과 TBAN 제안, 그리고 그의 24시간 편집 전쟁 블록에 집중되어 있다는 것이다.
- 때때로 사람들은 당신이 그들의 관심을 받을 때 반응한다.나는 그와 COI에 대한 토론을 열었고, 그는 그의 COI를 인정했으며, 그는 기사를 직접 편집하는 것을 중단하고 대신 Talk 페이지에 변경을 제안하겠다고 약속했다.나는 또한 그에게 Talk 페이지에 참여하는 방법에 대해 조언해 주었다.
- 나는 이것을 닫을 것을 권고한다. 그리고 CIC7이 Talk 페이지에서 멈추지 않고 중단되는 것으로 판명되거나 혹은 기사를 직접 편집하는 것으로 되돌아간다면, 이것을 다시 열어서 계속해서 증가하는 블록을 주도록 한다.하지만 그가 지금 말하고 있고 위키백과 편집자가 되는 것이 무엇을 의미하는지에 대한 이해의 시작을 가지고 있는 것처럼 보이므로, 지금 그에게 시도해보자.Jytdog (대화) 21:59, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- @Jytdog: CIC7을 대화에 참여시킨 것을 축하하며, 특히 CIC7로부터 기사 편집을 중단하고, 토크페이지에서 변경을 제안하기 시작한다는 약속[54]을 얻어낸 것을 축하한다.
CIC7이 위키백과의 정책과 가이드라인에 대해 매우 제한적인 이해를 가지고 있다는 것도 그 논의에서 분명하므로, 당신이 매우 포괄적인 일련의 설명으로 도움을 준 것은 대단하다.CIC7도 그 가이드라인을 따르기로 한 것으로 알고 있다[55].
이러한 모든 진전에 비추어 볼 때, 나는 주제 금지가 현 단계에서 부적절하다는 것에 동의한다. 그래서 나는 CIC7의 확증이 지켜지지 않을 경우 TBAN 제안을 철회할 것이다. --사용자:브라운헤어드걸, 09:08, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- @Jytdog: CIC7을 대화에 참여시킨 것을 축하하며, 특히 CIC7로부터 기사 편집을 중단하고, 토크페이지에서 변경을 제안하기 시작한다는 약속[54]을 얻어낸 것을 축하한다.
@BrownHailedGirl: ping하는 것을 잊었다.ping을 추가하는 것은 효과가 없다.코레더애플 (대화) 14:47, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 고마워, 코레더애플.네 코멘트를 본 적이 있지만 혹시 모르니 핑을 붙여줘서 고마워.
- 이 토론이 끝나기 전에 Figureofnine으로부터 듣는 것은 좋겠지만, 나는 더 이상의 언급이 지금 큰 차이를 만들 것이라고 생각하지 않는다.FON은 위에서 좋은 주장을 폈지만, 현재 이 단계에서 CIC7의 주제 금지를 지지하는 사람은 아무도 없기 때문에, FON의 추가 언급이 결과를 바꿀지 의심스럽다.
- AFAICS는 이 시점에서 CIC7에 WP를 제공하기로 합의하였다.로프, 그리고 CIC7이 그것을 어떻게 사용할지 결정하게 하라.CIC7이 en.wp정책과 원칙을 실천하는 많은 배움을 가지고 있음을 알 수 있지만, 이를 배우고 실천하는 진지한 노력이 있기를 바란다.CIC7이 다시 이곳으로 돌아오면 제재가 꽤 빨리 이뤄질 것으로 본다. --브라운헤어드걸(토크) • (출연) 16:04, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 우리의 가이드라인은 COI 편집자들이 기사를 편집하지 않고, 훨씬 덜 편집하고, 복어와 OR을 둘러싼 편집 전쟁은 더더욱 하지 않는 것이 분명하기 때문에 이런 종류의 토론이 전혀 필요하지 않은 것 같다.나는 이 기사가 전반적으로 내용에 대한 시선의 부족에 시달리는 것 같아, 이렇게 해서 여기까지 오게 된 거야.P.S.는 위의 브라운헤어드걸 코멘트에 서명하고 있으며, 괜찮으시길 바란다.코레더애플 (대화) 22:12, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- @Coretheapple: 만약 모든 편집자들이 위키피디아의 정책과 지침을 일관되게 지지한다면, 아마도 ANI나 다른 극작가들이 필요하지 않을 것이다.그러나 우리는 불완전한 세상에 살고 있기 때문에 이런 일들이 일어나게 되고, 그들에 대처하는 방법도 있다.
- CIC7이 여기서 주어진 확약을 그대로 이행할 수 있기를 바라며, 토론이 기사에 더 많은 관심을 끌었기를 바란다. --BrownHairedGirl (토크) • (출연) 16:13, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
보고 사용자:Quetta의 파괴적 편집을 위한 Purmuffin
보고 사용자:퀘타에게 Talk에서 토론에 참여하도록 거듭 요청한 후, 퀘타에 대한 파괴적인 편집을 위한 퍼머핀:Quetta#Languages.그는 대부분 블로그와 웹사이트에 소싱되지 않은, 제대로 소싱되지 않은 정보를 추가하면서 학술적으로 소싱된 정보를 삭제하는 데 전념하고 있다.Puffumin의 편집 중단을 위한 블록 요청과 최근 복구는 잘못된 버전이고 페이지가 완전히 보호되어야 하기 때문에 되돌려야 한다.보안관 ▷인터뷰 911 17:48, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)[
- 사용자:SheriffIsInTown은 퀘타 페이지 기사를 그가 보기에도 맞는 방식으로만 만들고 싶어하기 때문에 나를 금지시키길 원한다.그는 계속해서 유효한 출처를 제거하고 그것을 그가 원하는 대로 하기 위해 죽은 편집본과 가짜 편집본으로 대체한다.그런 다음 자신의 잘못된 편집에 반대하는 사용자를 보고한다.그는 심지어 진행자들이 눈치채지 못하도록 로마 문자를 사용하여 파슈토어로 나를 학대하기도 했다.그것이 그가 페이지를 보호받기를 원하는 이유다.퍼머핀 (대화) 18:45, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @Puffmuffin: - 당신이 당신의 게시물에 서명하면 우리에게 도움이 될 것이다. b) 당신의 게시물을 움푹하게 만들었고, c) 남용 혐의에 대해 우리에게 양해를 제공했다.만약 당신이 이것을 한다면, 특히 다른 주장들이 조사될 가능성이 더 높아진다.Mjroot (대화) 18:32, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @SheriffIsInTown: - 그냥 WP에 퀘타 기사를 잠그는 게 어때?잘못된 버전?Mjroot (대화) 18:32, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 안녕, Mjroots, 페이지는 잘못된 버전으로 잠겨서는 안 돼, POV가 밀어붙이고 비소싱 콘텐츠가 기사에 그대로 남아 있게 해서는 안 돼.내가 이 실을 연 이후, 우리는 또한 대화에서 더 많은 편집자들의 의견을 받았고 퍼머핀에 대한 공감대가 있는 것 같다.실수로 퍼머핀도 내가 파슈토에서 자신을 학대했다고 비난하면서 IP주소를 이용하는 것을 받아들였는데, 파슈토에서 뭔가를 쓴 IP는 내가 아니고 무슨 뜻인지 모르지만 요약라인에서 남용에 대해 불평하고 있던 IP를 그가 맞았다는 것이다.그는 양말 맞으면 막아야 하는데, 내가 SPI를 여는 데 어려움을 덜 것이다.나는 곧 관련 차이점을 추가할 것이다.보안관 ▷인터뷰 911 19:36, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @Mjroots: 페이지가 올바른 버전으로 잠겨 있다는 것을 확인하지만 퍼머핀의 삭발과 파괴적인 편집을 고려해서 차단해 주시오.보안관 ▷인터뷰 911 19:41, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- I do do a I을 확인했어.P 편집자는 여기 편집 요약을 통해 Phashto에서 왜 그들이 그들을 학대했는지 물어본다. 마지막에는 영어가 아닌 몇몇 텍스트가 있는데 나는 그것을 해독할 수 없다.이 사건의 포스터는 IsInTown 보안관이 아니라 또 다른 아이피(I.파슈토 퍼머핀에서의 욕설일 수도 있어코슈볼론 19:41, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 "Sta Roray Gayam"이라는 구절이 의미 있다고 추측한다.구글 번역은 그것을 파슈토라고 식별하지 않는다.Mjroot (대화) 20:01, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 파슈토를 모르지만, 그 번역자는 "ستةةييي"""""로 번역된다.그 마지막 단어는 영어로 "fuck"으로 번역된다: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%BA%D9%88%D9%88%D9%84#Pashtoforgot은 Goldenshimmer (대화) 20:17, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%BA%D9%8A%D9%85.) "https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%BA%D9%8A%D9%85.)" 참조는 분명히 "Rory"라는 이름을 쓰는 방법이며, (Google Translation은 그렇게 말하고, 웹 검색은 확인으로 나타난다.)구글 번역에 따르면, "ة translate"은 다른 의미들 중에서 "거기서", "아무거나" 또는 "제안"을 의미한다고 한다.다시 서명하는 것을 잊었다. #brillant #failed #failed Goldenshimmer (talk) 20:21, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 파슈토를 모르지만, 그 번역자는 "ستةةييي"""""로 번역된다.그 마지막 단어는 영어로 "fuck"으로 번역된다: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%BA%D9%88%D9%88%D9%84#Pashtoforgot은 Goldenshimmer (대화) 20:17, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 "Sta Roray Gayam"이라는 구절이 의미 있다고 추측한다.구글 번역은 그것을 파슈토라고 식별하지 않는다.Mjroot (대화) 20:01, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- I do do a I을 확인했어.P 편집자는 여기 편집 요약을 통해 Phashto에서 왜 그들이 그들을 학대했는지 물어본다. 마지막에는 영어가 아닌 몇몇 텍스트가 있는데 나는 그것을 해독할 수 없다.이 사건의 포스터는 IsInTown 보안관이 아니라 또 다른 아이피(I.파슈토 퍼머핀에서의 욕설일 수도 있어코슈볼론 19:41, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @Mjroots:예, 페이지는 올바른 버전에 잠겨 있어야 한다.그는 내가 앞서 퀘타 페이지의 인구통계란에 추가한 3개의 참고자료를 방금 삭제했다.페이지를 잠가야 하는 경우 다시 조사하여 사용자의 의도를 파악하십시오.이신타운 보안관님나는 그가 여러 개의 아이디를 사용하고 있는 것이 의심스럽다.퍼머핀 (대화)20:18, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 설명:나는 퍼머핀과 함께 추리를 시도했었다.그리고 나서 그에게 (수저 먹이기에 더 가깝다고)까지 설명하려고 했지만, 두 시도 모두 아무런 성과도 거두지 못한다.오히려 그는 아까 하던 일을 정확히 했다.그는 확실히 WP를 짓기 위해 여기에 온 것은 아니다.그는 심지어 자신의 주장과 함께 인라인으로 작용하는 새로운 변화들을 읽지도 않았다!그는 'undo' 버튼을 누르기 전에 책을 읽지 않는다!
- 그는 또한 태양이 자신을 중심으로 돌고 있다고 생각하며, 따라서 WP에 있는 모든 사람들(IP와 등록된 사용자들 모두)이 그를 대항하기 위해 여기에 있다.—트립와이어 ︢ trip wire ︢ ︢ 20 20 20ʞlɐʇ 20:39, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
사용자:TripWire는 사용자의 또 다른 ID:보안관 IsInTown 그는 다른 사람들을 오도하기 위해 여러 개의 ID를 사용하고 있다.그들 둘 다 종종 "Dude"라는 용어를 사용한다. 그것은 우연의 일치일 수 없다.둘 다 내가 Quetta 페이지의 인구통계 섹션에 추가한 것과 동일한 세 가지 소스를 제거하고 있다.올바른 버전의 페이지를 잠그십시오.도노트가 잘못 이끌리다.퍼머핀 (대화)20:51, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @Mjroots:
- @Mjroots:당신은 그 페이지가 완전히 보호되었다고 주장했지만 그것은 아니었다.퍼머핀은 현재 다른 편집자와 계속 편집전을 벌이고 있다.
- @퍼프머핀:위키백과 커뮤니티는 2007년 5월 이후 여러 아이디를 사용하여 편집해 온 사람이 누구인지 곧 알게 될 것이며, 또한 이전 코멘트에서 수락한 사람의 IP 주소를 사용하여 위키백과를 혼란스럽게 할 것이다.내 능력에 대해 의심하는 경우 User를 참조하십시오.보안관 IsInTown#Successful sock-puppet 조사.보안관 ▷인터뷰 911 20:53, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)[
- 나는 파슈토 사용자들에게 그들이 와서 도움을 줄 수 있는지 알아보기 위해 ping을 했다.코슈볼론 21:10, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- @자르훈11:파슈토에 있는 이 구절은 개인적인 학대와 관련이 있는데, 이것은 누군가를 엿먹이는 것을 의미하는, 파탄에 의한 가혹한 학대 중 하나이다.자르훈11 (대화) 09:51, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 논평: 나는 이것이 다른 IP주소에 의해 그의 IP주소에 내던져진 매우 나쁜 일이라는 것을 이해하지만 그는 내가 그 IP의 배후 인물이라고 암시하고 있다. 그러나 그는 그 IP에 대해 불평한 IP(182.183.128.230)가 자신이고 또한 누구를 향한 IP(119.160.119.18)라는 것을 받아들였다.학대도 그였다.그러한 학대에 대해 나를 비난하는 것은 그가 이전에 IP 주소(182.183.183.193.191)를 사용하여 나를 학대한 것을 인정했기 때문일 것이다. 요약본을 다시 작성했다. 그것은 "SheriffIsInTown, 이 자식아..."과 같은 것을 시작했는데, 나는 내 자신을 학대하고 싶지 않기 때문에 다음 것을 쓰고 있는 것이 아니다.IP 주소의 유사성에 주목하십시오. 182.183.183.183.191은 WHOIS를 182.183.128.230으로 확인하면 동일한 위치에 기반한다.비록 그에게 퍼부은 학대를 고맙게 여기지 않고 묵과하지는 않지만, 그의 과거 학대의 이력을 고려하면, 그는 그 IP에 의해 자신의 약을 복용하게 되었다.나는 또한 관리자가 페이지 보호가 끝나면, 자신에게 불리하게 전개된 의견에도 불구하고, ANI에서 Dennis Brown에 의해, Kautilya3와 Talk에 의해 그의 출처가 거부당함에도 불구하고, 다시 혼란과 편집 전쟁을 시작할 것이기 때문에 그의 업무 중단과 허용에 더욱 집중할 것을 요청하고 싶다.Quetta와 나의 소스에 대한 반응은 Kautilya3와 TripWire 둘 다 긍정적이었다.우리는 지금까지 퍼머핀의 성향이 전혀 없어서 그는 이러한 모든 위반에도 불구하고 저지되지 않는다면, 그의 위반과 파행을 더 계속할 것이다.보안관 ▷인터뷰 911 15:07, 2016년 5월 31일(UTC)[
- 그래, 답답하긴 했지만 일리가 있었어.퍼머핀, 네가 제공한 링크 중 하나는 스캠웨어 바이러스였어.내가 "연락처" 페이지에 갔을 때 내 브라우저를 잠갔지만, 나는 IT 전문가라서 "당신은 감염되었다"는 통조림 음성을 끄기 위해 크롬의 모든 인스턴스를 종료하는 것이 불편했다.누가 가서 글로벌 블랙리스트에 historypak.com을 추가해 주시고, 어떤 상황에서도 거기에 가지 마십시오.당신이 추가한 다른 출처 lonelyplanet.com (문서 WP:RS)와 blogs.tribune.com.pk(경계선, 그녀가 직원으로 등재되지 않았다는 점을 제외하고, 당신은 단골 손님 기고자라고 가정해야 한다. 그래서 당신은 그렇게 믿을 수 없다.퍼머핀, 넌 여기 처음 와서 널 좀 봐주려고 해.다른 모든 사람들이 완벽하게 결백하다고 말하는 것은 아니지만, 백과사전을 해치는 그런 종류의 진짜 쓰레기를 거기에 더했잖아.편집의 첫 번째 규칙은 백과사전을 개선하는 것이지 해치는 것이 아니다.여러분 모두 토크 페이지로 가서 그것을 사용하고 토론하고 토론해야 한다.그것은 일주일 동안 완전히 보호된다.최근이지만 안전한 버전이라고 생각했던 것으로 다시 돌아갔는데(정확히 읽지는 않아서 선호되는 버전이 없다), 그것은 분명 잘못된 버전이지만, 그 휴식시간이다.퍼머핀을 더 많이 듣고, 무력으로가 아니라 좋은 아이디어로 다른 사람들을 설득하고, WP를 읽기를 읽어야 한다.RS를 통해 좋은 출처와 "내가 하고 싶은 말을 하는 일부 웹사이트"의 차이점을 알아본다.데니스 브라운 - 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC) 2시간 21분 12초 12초[
- @Dennis Brown: 내게는 완전히 보호받는 것 같지 않다[56]. -- The Videwalker 21:37, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- @Dennis Brown: Puffuffin은 새로운 편집자가 아니고 2007년 5월부터 편집하고 있으며, 그 동안 많은 IP를 사용하여 업무 중단을 수행해왔으며, 일단 페이지가 보호되고 나면 업무 중단을 계속하기 위해 자신의 계정을 사용한다.내가 그것을 준비했을 때 SPI를 위해 쉬어라.보안관 ▷인터뷰 911 23:11, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)[
토리바는 인신공격/추행을 반복한다.
여기- 그녀의 (자전적) 기사는 "어디서나 나를 따라다니는 듯한 요셉2302에 의해 지워졌다... 그는 또한 [나의 찻집 요청] 요청을 삭제했고, 그의 토크 페이지로부터 나를 금지하는 것은 그녀가 그의 TP에 대한 반복적인 자기 홍보 때문이라고 설명했다.이것은 그가 그녀의 그림을 지웠다는 그녀의 불만과 찻집이 그들이 무슨 말을 하는지 모른다는 그녀의 결정 위에 있었다.그녀에게 문제는 그녀의 WP가 다음과 같은 것이다.자서전은 여기 AFD 아래에 있다; 편집자는 거기서 계속 말했다. "나를 괴롭히지 말고 기사와 5개의 도면을 삭제하라고 요구하는 모든 곳을 따라와라... 자네, 자네의 동기는 모르지만 자네의 행동은 분명히 선의의 행동이 아니며, 위키피디아에게 좋은 얼굴을 만들어 주지 않네."WP의 문제는 다른 사용자들의 해설을 포함한 그러한 비독점적인 태도가 붕괴에 해당한다는 것이다.
마지막으로 '와 함께 말하기'- 에디터를 추천한다.Muffled Pocketed 15:49, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- (비관리자 논평) 최근 15시간 동안 편집자가 활동한 것처럼 보이지 않아 포기했을까? --삼타르 15:53, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 그들이 3월부터 단발성으로 여기 온 걸 생각하면 그렇게 쉽게 없어질 것 같지가 않아, 삼타르.문제는 그들이 충고를 듣지 않고 있으며, 같은 것에 대해 여러 편집자에게 끈질긴 질문을 퍼부을 작정이다(나 자신, 테로디슬롱, 임블란터 모두 이것에 희생되었다).내가 그들을 괴롭혔던 그들의 주장에 대해서는, 나는 한 달 전에 이 기사/초안을 포기하고, 그들이 나를 짜증나게 하는 것과 같은 방식으로 테로디슬롱을 성가시게 하는 것을 본 후에야 다시 힘을 얻었다(영구적인 논쟁적 행동, 그리고 그들이 반드시 주목할 만 하다는 완전한 주장).내가 그들을 삭제하도록 지명했을 때 그들의 이미지는 아무런 허가도 받지 않았고, 그들의 초안 및 기사는 여러 관리자에 의해 삭제되었다.Talk에 대한 나의 반대 의견:나탈리아 토리바 및 위키백과:삭제 조항/Natalia Torreeva(거기에 있는 모자 쓴 소리까지 합치면)는 멈추지 않을 것이며, 자서전 이외에는 다른 어떤 것에도 긍정적으로 기여하지 않을 것임을 보여준다.요셉2302 (대화) 16:08, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 나는 User와 함께 편집자 중 한 명이었다.관련 기사를 편집해 그녀와 교전하려 한 임블란터(여기 참조).(참고를 위해 CONE에서 이 포스트를 통해 관여하게 되었다.)얼마 후 토리바는 여러 번 설명을 해놓고도 내 지적에 대한 요점을 이해하지 못해 조금 짜증이 났다.그래서 내가 다른 의견을 위해 찻집에 그녀를 소개한 거야.나중에 나는 그 기사를 포기했다.(그래도 나는 그녀로부터 개인적으로 공격을 받은 적이 없다.
- 내가 여기서 제안하는 것은 그것을 떠나서 AfD가 진로를 운영하게 하는 것이다.AfD에서 결정된 것은 무엇이든 모두가 받아들여야 할 것이다.그것이 문제를 해결한다 --Lemongirl942 (토크) 16:42, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
사용자:NYBCchimps
누가 그들의 편집 내용을 좀 봐줄래?2600:1008:B014:26F3:798B:E3D9:A7F4:A661 (대화) 14:20, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 힌트 줘 봐.--S 필브릭(토크) 14:22, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 어떻게 알려야 할지 모르겠어2600:1008:B014:26F3:798B:E3D9:A7F4:A661 (대화) 14:25, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 내가 통보를 해봤는데, IP가 침팬지들이 뉴욕혈액센터의 연구를 위해 사용했던 어떤 옹호 등록이 있다는 것을 암시하고 있는 것 같아.—스페이스맨스파이프 14:28, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 여기의 OP는 NYBCchimps (대화·출고)가 작업한 어떤 것도 편집하지 않은 것 같기 때문에, 그가 정밀 조사를 피하기 위해 로그아웃했다고 보는 것이 타당하다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→16:16, 2016년 5월 29일(UTC)】[
- 왜 로그아웃해서 자기 계좌를 신고했을까?가능하긴 하지만...이상해 보이다에버그린피르(토크){{re}}}{{re}} 19:30, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 야구벅스는 종종 IP 편집자에게 질타를 가한다. 그것은 5개의 기둥 중 하나와 일부 정책에 어긋나는 문제 있는 행동이지만, 반복된 조언에도 불구하고(때로는 ANI에서) IP 편집자를 그냥 내버려 두라는 힌트를 가져본 적이 없다.댄BCDANBC (대화) 23:16, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 너의 주장은 사실이 아니다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→ 23:53, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)】[
- 왜 로그아웃해서 자기 계좌를 신고했을까?가능하긴 하지만...이상해 보이다에버그린피르(토크){{re}}}{{re}} 19:30, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 그리고 여기의 OP는 NYBCchimps (대화·출고)가 작업한 어떤 것도 편집하지 않은 것 같기 때문에, 그가 정밀 조사를 피하기 위해 로그아웃했다고 보는 것이 타당하다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→16:16, 2016년 5월 29일(UTC)】[
위와 같은 불필요한 표현에도 불구하고, 또한 나의 명백한 불신임과 불성실함에도 불구하고, 사용자:NYBCchimps는 많은 관련 기사에 삽입하고 싶은 다소 구체적인 관점을 가진 단일 목적 계정인 것처럼 보인다.그렇긴 하지만, 그들은 다른 편집자들이 그들의 토크 페이지에 왜 편집이 되돌아가고 있는지를 설명한 이후로 편집하지 않았다.편집전이 다시 불붙지 않는 한 추가 조치는 정당화될 수 없다고 본다.--제즈벨의 포뇨bons mots 17:55, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
기사 편집기가 모든 편집 내용을 사소한 것으로 표시하고 대화를 무시함
사용자:기사 편집자는 자신이 편집한 모든 "소수" 표시를 중지하라는 여러 요청을 포함하여 자신의 토크 페이지에 있는 많은 불평을 모두 무시한다.어떤 관리자가 여기서 강요할 수 있는 일을 할 수 있을까?사용자 대화:기사 편집자#Edits_marked "minor".디클라이언 (대화) 2016년 5월 29일 17시 55분 (UTC)[
- 주 편집자는 2006년부터 이 일을 하고 있다. 3,613명 중 3,562명은 아마도 '소수'일 것이다. 2016년 5월 29일(UTC) 18:01[
- 그리고 그의 토크 페이지에는 100개 이상의 섹션이 있는데, 대부분 그가 무시해온 불평들이다.디클라이언 (대화)20:19, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이것의 결과가 어떤지 보고 싶다.도움말:편집 스트레스를 최소화하여 편집이 경미하게 표시되면 안 된다는 점과 부적절한 사소한 편집에 대한 사용자 경고 {{uw-minor}}이(가) 있지만, 그 이상의 재청구는 없을까?편집한 내용을 모두 사소한 것으로 표시한 편집자는 처음이 아니다.AFAIK, 영어 위키백과는 더 이상 모든 편집 부문을 자동으로 표시하도록 설정되어 있지 않기 때문에, 편집자들은 하지 말라는 지시를 받았음에도 불구하고 박스를 수동으로 체크해야 한다. clpo13(talk) 20:46, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 그의 토크 페이지에는 100개 이상의 섹션이 있는데, 대부분 그가 무시해온 불평들이다.디클라이언 (대화)20:19, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 이와 관련 있는 것은 T26313으로, 2010년에 "기본적으로 모든 편집사항을 사소한 것으로 표시" 선호도를 제거했다.기사 편집자가 스크립트를 사용하여 동일한 효과를 발생시키는 것 같다(사용자:기사 편집기/벡터.js).나는 이것을 금지하는 명확한 정책을 알지 못하지만, 만약 이것이 학대하는 것으로 여겨진다면, 관리자가 AE의 벡터.js를 편집하여 대본을 삭제한 후 다시 추가하면 제재를 받을 수 있다는 것을 그에게 알릴 수 있다는 것은 분명해 보인다.—/Mendaliv///2¢Δ's 23:50, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 나는 위키피디아에서 다른 편집자들과의 의사소통이 선택사항이 아니라는 사실에 주의를 환기시키기 위해 24시간 블록을 제안한다.Jytdog (대화) 01:21, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 대본을 떼고 메모를 남겨 대본이 남용돼 복원하지 못하게 했다.솔직히 내가 어떤 권한을 가지고 있어야 하는지 모르겠지만, 나는 이 토론과 WP를 근거로 그것을 주장하고 있다.IAR, 그리고 그를 막지 않으려는 욕구.다음에 무슨 일이 일어나는지 봅시다.데니스 브라운 - 2시 12분 56초, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 모든 편집 내용을 사소한 것으로 표시하는 것은 (많은 사람들이 사소한 편집 내용을 확인했기 때문에) 편집 내용을 감독으로부터 효과적으로 제거하기 때문에 '중복적인 편집'에 해당된다.과거에 그렇게 하는 것을 지속해서 거부하는 것은 상황을 편집자에게 설명하고 그들은 그것을 계속하는 것을 차단하는 결과를 낳았다.이 경우 사용자가 실제로 전혀 통신하고 있지 않기 때문에 주의를 끌기 위해 차단해야 할 수도 있다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 14:28, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- (1) 그들이 상관하지 않거나/또는 (2) 그들 모두가 휴가 중이라는 것을 나타내는, 어떤 관리자도 아직 분명한 일을 하지 않았다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→ 14:34, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)】[
- 벅스, 또한 가능성 #3: 관리자들이 지켜보고 있고, 휴일에 있지 않으며, 신경을 쓰고 있으며, AE에게 이미 ANI[57]와 교전하라고 경고했지만, 이러한 관리자들은 경고 게시물이 만들어진 이후 기사 편집자(대화 및 기사)가 편집하지 않았다는 것을 지적하고, 편집자가 트라이를 사용하기 전에 좋은 의도를 보여줄 수 있는 기회를 제공할 준비가 되어 있다는 점을 지적한다.ggger. --BrownHairedGirl (대화) • (출연) 14:52, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 10년 만에 편집한 내용을 모두 '소수'로 표시하지 말라는 경고를 받았다는 사실을 믿기 어렵다.가장 최근의 경고 이후로 편집하지 않은 것에 대해 말하자면, 아마도 그는 휴일에 있을 것이고, 현충일 주말이 될 것이다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→16:50, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)】[
- 영국에서도 은행 휴일이라 3일 연휴야.많은 사람들이 계획을 세운다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 16:53, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 중요한 건 이건 드라이브 바이(drive-by)가 아니라 10년 동안 여기 있었던 편집장이라는 겁니다.그래서 나는 그가 마이너라고 태그된 비 마이너 편집으로 다시 편집하면 그들이 차단할 것이라고 추측해야 한다.아니면 뒤에서 다가와 '괴물' 경고를 내리던가:) ←베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?→ 17:06, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 그래도 블록이 첫 번째 선택은 아니다.그 대본을 과감히 지우고 내가 한 메시지를 그에게 남기는 것으로 일단 충분하다고 생각한다.그리고 그래, 난 그가 단지 힌트를 얻고 그것을 그만둘 것이라고 희망한다.블록은 잘 알다시피 보편적인 문제 해결사가 아니다.우리는 먼저 경고한다, 그 행동이 그렇게 나쁘지만 않다면 그것은 비상 브레이크를 필요로 한다.이건 그런 상황이 아니에요.데니스 브라운 - 2016년 5월 30일 ( 2시간 17:12, 응답
- 덧붙이자면, 나는 그 스크립트를 사용하는 대다수의 다른 사람들이 제대로 하고 있는지, 아니면 주된 이유가 위와 같은 것인지가 궁금해서 MFD의 관심사가 되고 있다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 17분 14초, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 최근에 그것에 대해 질문을 받았을 때, 그의 반응은 "정숙하다"고 말했다.그 반응에 대해 별로 신의가 없군문제는, 비소수적 편집을 사소한 것으로 표시하는 문제가 얼마나 중요한가이다.나는 내 감시목록에서 사소한 수정사항들을 걸러내지 않기 때문에, 나에게 그것은 중요하지 않다.하지만 어떤 사람들에게는 그럴 것이다.그리고 계속적인 합의 준수를 거부하는 것은 혼란에 해당된다.만약 그가 반복해서 경고를 받았지만 차단되지 않는다면, 그는 변화할 동기가 없다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→ 17:18, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)】[
- 덧붙이자면, 나는 그 스크립트를 사용하는 대다수의 다른 사람들이 제대로 하고 있는지, 아니면 주된 이유가 위와 같은 것인지가 궁금해서 MFD의 관심사가 되고 있다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 17분 14초, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 그래도 블록이 첫 번째 선택은 아니다.그 대본을 과감히 지우고 내가 한 메시지를 그에게 남기는 것으로 일단 충분하다고 생각한다.그리고 그래, 난 그가 단지 힌트를 얻고 그것을 그만둘 것이라고 희망한다.블록은 잘 알다시피 보편적인 문제 해결사가 아니다.우리는 먼저 경고한다, 그 행동이 그렇게 나쁘지만 않다면 그것은 비상 브레이크를 필요로 한다.이건 그런 상황이 아니에요.데니스 브라운 - 2016년 5월 30일 ( 2시간 17:12, 응답
- 중요한 건 이건 드라이브 바이(drive-by)가 아니라 10년 동안 여기 있었던 편집장이라는 겁니다.그래서 나는 그가 마이너라고 태그된 비 마이너 편집으로 다시 편집하면 그들이 차단할 것이라고 추측해야 한다.아니면 뒤에서 다가와 '괴물' 경고를 내리던가:) ←베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?→ 17:06, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 영국에서도 은행 휴일이라 3일 연휴야.많은 사람들이 계획을 세운다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 16:53, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 10년 만에 편집한 내용을 모두 '소수'로 표시하지 말라는 경고를 받았다는 사실을 믿기 어렵다.가장 최근의 경고 이후로 편집하지 않은 것에 대해 말하자면, 아마도 그는 휴일에 있을 것이고, 현충일 주말이 될 것이다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→16:50, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)】[
- 벅스, 또한 가능성 #3: 관리자들이 지켜보고 있고, 휴일에 있지 않으며, 신경을 쓰고 있으며, AE에게 이미 ANI[57]와 교전하라고 경고했지만, 이러한 관리자들은 경고 게시물이 만들어진 이후 기사 편집자(대화 및 기사)가 편집하지 않았다는 것을 지적하고, 편집자가 트라이를 사용하기 전에 좋은 의도를 보여줄 수 있는 기회를 제공할 준비가 되어 있다는 점을 지적한다.ggger. --BrownHairedGirl (대화) • (출연) 14:52, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- (1) 그들이 상관하지 않거나/또는 (2) 그들 모두가 휴가 중이라는 것을 나타내는, 어떤 관리자도 아직 분명한 일을 하지 않았다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→ 14:34, 2016년 5월 30일(UTC)】[
연기하기 전에 30, 40개의 편집을 보고 싶어도 다른 사람들이 볼 거라고 장담하고 있어.데니스 브라운 - 2016년 5월 30일 2시 18분 27초(UTC)[
- 대본을 뽑아줘서 고마워, 데니스추가 조치에 대해서는 일단 스크립트를 제거하는 것이 충분하다는 데 동의하며, AE가 다음 조치를 취하기를 기다린다.점검할 가치가 있는 것은 유사한 코드에 대한 모든 편집자의 스크립트에 대한 검색을 실행하고, 유사한 주소가 필요할 수 있는 부 편집 플래그를 다른 편집자가 잘못 사용하는지 확인하는 것이다.다행히도 AE는 지난 해에 일어난 일을 살펴보는 것만으로도 너무 오래 걸리지 않을 정도로 편집한 것이 거의 없다.그리고 누군가 이미 그렇게 하고 있을 겁니다.—/Mendaliv///2¢Δ's 18:36, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 대본을 뽑은 것이 좋은 결정이었다는 것에 동의하라.멋진 제3의 길 이동.Jytdog (대화) 22:45, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 그가 편집한 모든 것을 사소한 것으로 표시해도 누가 상관하겠는가?편집 요약을 사용하지 않는 사용자도 차단하고 있는가?나는 정말 여기서 그 폐해를 보지 못하고 있다.Ajraddatz (대화) 07:27, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 꽤 많은 봇들이 사소한 것으로 표시된 편집은 무시하며, 꽤 많은 사람들이 기사를 볼 때 편집 내용을 제외한다.편집이 아닐 때 '소수'로 표시하는 것은 편집(WP:Vandalism에 언급된 편집)의 정밀조사를 막기 위해 사용되는 전술이며, 파괴적일 수 있다.문제는 네가 가서 확인해보기 전에는 모른다는 거야.편집 요약의 경우 - 예스 사람들은 편집 요약을 사용하지 않거나 명백한 기만 요약을 사용했다는 이유로 과거에 차단되었다(적용되는 경우는 매우 드물다).오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 07:37, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- 그렇다면 사용자 편집에 심각한 문제가 있는 겁니까?당신은 모든 편집을 사소한 것으로 표시하는 것이 나쁜 것일 수 있다고 제안하고 있지만, 내가 보기에 나쁜 것은 편집 자체의 내용(그리고 그것 때문에 백과사전에 피해를 주는 실제 행동)일 것 같지만, 여기서는 그런 증거가 제시되어 있지 않다.ANI는 최근 정말 좋은 기록을 가지고 있다; 처음에는 뛰어난 정확도 등급에도 불구하고 NPP와 AFD에서 편집자를 금지하려 했고, 지금은 이렇게 되었다.왜 그걸 드라마보드로 부르는지 알겠어여기 아무도 더 좋은 일 없을까?Ajraddatz (대화) 07:41, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 그게 오히려 요점일 수도 있지만 아무도 모를 거야 알아낼 수 있는 유일한 방법은 가서 전부 확인하는 것뿐일 거야일반적으로 다른 모든 사람들은 내용을 변경하고 사소한 것으로 표시하는 것에 대해 거짓말을 하지 않는 것을 선호한다.사소한 것으로 편집한 마킹이 무엇에 사용되어야 하는지는 명확하다.그것을 부적절하게 사용하면 푸시백을 기대할 수 있다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 07:46, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- 일반적으로 서구 세계에서 입증책임은 사람들이 누군가를 잘못했다고 비난하는데 있다.그리고 일부 봇과 편집자들이 확인하지 않는다는 당신의 주장은 매우 의심스럽다; 만약 이 사람이 광범위한 파열적 편집 패턴을 가지고 있다면, 편집 내용을 사소한 것으로 표시하는 것은 그것을 감추기 위해 아무것도 할 수 없다.하지만 어쨌든, 그는 우리가 편집한 태그를 다는 것에 대해 가지고 있는 어떤 규범도 따르기를 원하지 않기 때문에 절대적으로 아무 이유 없이 누군가를 계속 린치하는 것이다.아니면 편집한 내용을 꼬리표 붙여서 거짓말을 했다고 비난할 수도 있는 겁니까?정말?그동안 나는 왜 이 페이지가 내 감시 목록에 없는지를 기억해 왔고 나는 그 상황을 바로잡을 것이다.행운을 빌어, 그리고 여기 이 믿을 수 없는 잘못을 바로잡아 주길 바랄게.Ajraddatz (대화) 07:52, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 이 편집기는 편집 내용을 사소한 것으로 표시하는 데 연결되지 않은 양말과 편집의 이력이 있다는 점을 유념하십시오.아니면 실제로 전에 그들의 역사를 보지 않았는가?또한 다행히도 편집본을 사소한 편집이 아닌 사소한 편집으로 표시하는 것은 위키백과 표준에 의해 잘못되기 때문에, 그들의 기여 목록은 충분한 증거 역할을 한다.하지만 그 높은 말을 계속 타도 괜찮아.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 07:57, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- 일반적으로 서구 세계에서 입증책임은 사람들이 누군가를 잘못했다고 비난하는데 있다.그리고 일부 봇과 편집자들이 확인하지 않는다는 당신의 주장은 매우 의심스럽다; 만약 이 사람이 광범위한 파열적 편집 패턴을 가지고 있다면, 편집 내용을 사소한 것으로 표시하는 것은 그것을 감추기 위해 아무것도 할 수 없다.하지만 어쨌든, 그는 우리가 편집한 태그를 다는 것에 대해 가지고 있는 어떤 규범도 따르기를 원하지 않기 때문에 절대적으로 아무 이유 없이 누군가를 계속 린치하는 것이다.아니면 편집한 내용을 꼬리표 붙여서 거짓말을 했다고 비난할 수도 있는 겁니까?정말?그동안 나는 왜 이 페이지가 내 감시 목록에 없는지를 기억해 왔고 나는 그 상황을 바로잡을 것이다.행운을 빌어, 그리고 여기 이 믿을 수 없는 잘못을 바로잡아 주길 바랄게.Ajraddatz (대화) 07:52, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 그게 오히려 요점일 수도 있지만 아무도 모를 거야 알아낼 수 있는 유일한 방법은 가서 전부 확인하는 것뿐일 거야일반적으로 다른 모든 사람들은 내용을 변경하고 사소한 것으로 표시하는 것에 대해 거짓말을 하지 않는 것을 선호한다.사소한 것으로 편집한 마킹이 무엇에 사용되어야 하는지는 명확하다.그것을 부적절하게 사용하면 푸시백을 기대할 수 있다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 07:46, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- 그렇다면 사용자 편집에 심각한 문제가 있는 겁니까?당신은 모든 편집을 사소한 것으로 표시하는 것이 나쁜 것일 수 있다고 제안하고 있지만, 내가 보기에 나쁜 것은 편집 자체의 내용(그리고 그것 때문에 백과사전에 피해를 주는 실제 행동)일 것 같지만, 여기서는 그런 증거가 제시되어 있지 않다.ANI는 최근 정말 좋은 기록을 가지고 있다; 처음에는 뛰어난 정확도 등급에도 불구하고 NPP와 AFD에서 편집자를 금지하려 했고, 지금은 이렇게 되었다.왜 그걸 드라마보드로 부르는지 알겠어여기 아무도 더 좋은 일 없을까?Ajraddatz (대화) 07:41, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 꽤 많은 봇들이 사소한 것으로 표시된 편집은 무시하며, 꽤 많은 사람들이 기사를 볼 때 편집 내용을 제외한다.편집이 아닐 때 '소수'로 표시하는 것은 편집(WP:Vandalism에 언급된 편집)의 정밀조사를 막기 위해 사용되는 전술이며, 파괴적일 수 있다.문제는 네가 가서 확인해보기 전에는 모른다는 거야.편집 요약의 경우 - 예스 사람들은 편집 요약을 사용하지 않거나 명백한 기만 요약을 사용했다는 이유로 과거에 차단되었다(적용되는 경우는 매우 드물다).오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 07:37, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
부 편집 플래그를 사용하여 부 편집이 아닌 편집 플래그를 부 편집으로 표시하는 것은 방해가 된다는 오랜 공감대가 있다.기본적으로 모든 편집사항을 사소한 것으로 표시하기 위한 기본 설정을 삭제한 이유다.나는 솔직히 애초에 옵션이 존재했던 모든 이유가 초기 원시 봇들이 봇 깃발이 존재하기 전에 감시 목록을 방해하는 것을 막기 위해서라고 생각하고 있다.이것은 이 편집자의 이력과 무관하게, 그리고 데니스 브라운이 아마도 오래된 선호도를 모사하는 그의 대본을 불능화함으로써 해결한 문제일 것이다.—/Mendaliv///2¢Δ's 12:50, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 그는 지금 "최소한의 편집" 문제와는 상관도 없는 이유로 무한정 얼음 위에 서 있다(아마 이번에는 과거에 그가 받았던 다른 변혁들과 영구히 비교될 것이다).【베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→ 14:56, 2016년 5월 31일(UTC)[
야구 벅스 외:나는 지난 1년 동안 사용자 토크에서 사소한 편집 내용을 남용하는 것에 대해 내가 한 네 가지 경고를 지적하고 싶다.기사 편집자# 2015년 3월.그들의 벡터.js가 편집 내용을 자동으로 사소한 것으로 표시하고 있다는 것은 많은 것을 설명하지만, 나는 이 시점에서 사용자가 향후 사소한 편집의 사용에 대해 제재를 받아야 하며, 이것이 그들의 차단되지 않은 조건의 일부가 되어야 한다고 믿는다.이바디밤 (대화) 21:27, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 우리는 그가 대본의 삭제에 대해 어떻게 반응하는지 결코 알지 못한다. 왜냐하면 그는 지금 다른 이유로 인해 방해받고 있기 때문이다.디클라이언 (대화) 21:56, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
반달 주의
| 정렬. 보잉! 제베디(토크) 11시 5분, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[ |
|---|
| 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오. |
| 사용자:Therexbanner는 내 편집 내용을 되돌리는 바보야!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!제발 저 바보 좀 막아줘!!!!!!!! 2607:FEA8:A29F:FDEE:1486:97A3:6029:349B (대화) 10:59, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[ |
사용자:Jaypeeboyadizas22, AfD 템플릿 제거
| 차단됨 | |
| (비관리자 폐쇄) Jaypeeboyasizas22는 백과사전을 짓기 위해 이곳에 오지 않았다는 이유로 드레이아스에 의해 무기한 차단되었다 --Cameron11598 05:23, (UTC) 2016년 6월 3일 ( | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자:Jaypeeboyadizas22는 다른 두 편집자에 의해 뒤바뀌고 최종 경고를 받았음에도 불구하고 계속해서 AfD 템플릿을 스윙 더 쿤디만에서 제거해왔다.이 외에도 그들은 또한 과거에 페이지에서 알림 태그를 제거했다.오픈쿠퍼(토크) 19:35, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- 여기에 더해 해당 이용자는 2010년 이후, 이런 행동을 중단하라는 경고를 수없이 받았다.어떤 종류의 블록/밴이 여기 있을 지도 몰라...Vensco (T C) 00:38, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그들이 이것들과 다른 우려들에 반응하기를 바라면서 무한히가 아니라 무한히 그들을 막았다.5년 동안 그들은 WP에게 다음과 같은 질문을 던지며 파일을 제대로 업로드하는 법을 아직 배우지 못한 것 같다.CIR. 이러한 현재의 행동은 단지 파괴적일 뿐이며, 팬에 의해 편집된 것으로 보이는 것과 결합되어, 그들이 프로젝트를 개선하기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아님을 시사한다.Jaypeeboyadizas22, 당신이 당신의 토크 페이지에서 우리가 당신에 대해 잘못 알고 있으며, 우리의 정책과 지침을 준수하기 위해 노력할 것이라고 설명할 수 있을 때, 당신은 차단되지 않을 수 있다.그때까지만 해도 편집자들은 너무 많은 시간을 당신 뒤를 따라잡는데 낭비하고 있어.드레이미스 (토크) 01:09, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
WP:BLP, WP:VERify, WP:COI, WLP on Alex Tan
Alex Tan의 편집 내역을 참조하십시오.이전에 IP 편집기는 비소싱 쓰기를 추가하고 소스화된 쓰기를 제거하고 있었다.IP 페이지에 WP에 대한 메모를 남겼을 때:CITE 및 WP:BLP, 같은 행동을 계속하는 새로운 계정 Sgwatcher(토크 · 기여)가 만들어졌다.내가 페이지에 어떤 변화가 있었든 검증이 필요하다고 하자, SGWatcher는 기사의 주제로서 자기자신을 내세웠다.그가 진짜라고 가정하더라도, 나는 검증된 출처의 필요성을 반복해서 언급했지만 편집자는 WP의 경우인 것 같다.IDHT.
편집자는 어떤 피드백도 받기를 꺼리는 것 같다.이 편집된 답변은 그 문제에 대한 그의 생각을 요약한 것 같다.
해상도는 간단하다: 페이지를 제거하지 않으면 영원히 이것을 한다 :)[58]
이것에 대한 더 많은 시선이 감사하다.고마워!잔차오 (대화) 08:10, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 이제 인신공격도 리스트에 추가해라.[59]Zhanzhao (대화) 08:13, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 보고서가 열려 있는 동안에도 완전히 비소싱된 자료를 삽입하기 위해 24시간 동안 편집 교란 블록을 발행했다.Sgwatcher는 이전에 이 구역을 두 번이나 비웠기 때문에, 그들은 확실히 그것에 대해 알고 있다.나는 그들이 여기서 이러한 우려가 해결될 때까지 알렉스 탠이나 관련 기사를 편집하지 않기로 동의한다면 나는 그들이 이 토론에 참여할 수 있도록 차단을 풀겠다고 말했다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 08:42, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- (다른 문제들도 보지 않았고 앞으로도 그럴 수 없을 것이며, 이는 당장 진행 중인 전쟁을 막기 위한 행동일 뿐이라는 점을 덧붙여야겠습니다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 08:45, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 르몽월942(토크 · 기고)는 편집자의 토크 페이지에서 도우려 하고 있다.Zhanzhao (대화 · 기여) 또한 도우려고 노력하고 있다. (인신공격에 시달리는 사람임에도 불구하고 - 좋은 대응방법, 당신에게 감사를 표하는 Zhanzhao.스가워처는 여전히 위키피디아의 정책을 따르지 않을 것이라는 확고한 입장을 고수하고 있어 24시간 블록이 풀릴 것 같지 않다.알렉스 탠과 유저 토크에서 모두 진행 상황을 지켜보고 있다.Sgwatcher는 필요한 추가 관리 조치를 취할 것이다(다른 사람이 먼저 도착하지 않는 한).그래서, 나는 우리가 지금 필요한 모든 것을 했고 아마 이 구간은 폐쇄될 수 있다고 생각한다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 09:31, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그는 지금 투덜대겠다고 위협하고 있다.만약의 경우에 대비하여 이 항목을 계속 열어두고 싶을 수 있다.142.105.159.60 (대화) 17:13, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
- "우리는 이것을 영원히 한다...왜 이 일이 내게 친숙하게 느껴지는가?아, 66.102.157.201 (이것 바로 위의 ANI 실의 피험자)이 정확하게 같은 (증거 1, 2)를 말했기 때문에, 서로 24시간 이내에...생각?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)07:01, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 사실 완전한 인용구가 아니다."페이지를 제거하지 않으면 영원히 이 일을 한다"는 말이 반복된다.흥미롭긴 하지만 IP가 BMK의 "NOTERE, BATURK, WARTHART, NOTGETTINGIT, NPA" 사물을 잘라 붙여넣은 것이 분명해서, 다른 구절은 나에게 덜 의심스러워 보인다.독톡 07:14, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 지적이야, Doc9871.입력 고마워 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)07:25, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 이 경우 WP당 Sgwatcher를 차단하십시오.DOK는 일단 66의 금지가 통과되면 현 시점에서 통과되지 않을 가능성이 없기 때문에.142.105.159.60 (대화) 03:29, 2016년 5월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 사실 완전한 인용구가 아니다."페이지를 제거하지 않으면 영원히 이 일을 한다"는 말이 반복된다.흥미롭긴 하지만 IP가 BMK의 "NOTERE, BATURK, WARTHART, NOTGETTINGIT, NPA" 사물을 잘라 붙여넣은 것이 분명해서, 다른 구절은 나에게 덜 의심스러워 보인다.독톡 07:14, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- "우리는 이것을 영원히 한다...왜 이 일이 내게 친숙하게 느껴지는가?아, 66.102.157.201 (이것 바로 위의 ANI 실의 피험자)이 정확하게 같은 (증거 1, 2)를 말했기 때문에, 서로 24시간 이내에...생각?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)07:01, 2016년 5월 28일 (UTC)[
- 그는 지금 투덜대겠다고 위협하고 있다.만약의 경우에 대비하여 이 항목을 계속 열어두고 싶을 수 있다.142.105.159.60 (대화) 17:13, 2016년 5월 27일 (UTC)[
사용자:Poirot Holmes
누가 좀 도와줘.나는 겉보기에는 선의의 편집자([60] 참조)를 상대하고 있지만, 범법자가 될 수도 있는데, 그의 횡설수설도 이해하지 못하고 전문가답지 않게 되고 싶지도 않다.예를 들어, 나는 그에게서 다음과 같은 메시지를 받는다.
어떻게 하면 복사물이고 아마도 부끄러운 것임을 표시하여 홍보할 수 있을까?
선생님, 당신의 토크페이지에 메시지를 보내셨습니다.비판은 상업주의가 아니다!우편으로 가서 어떤 증거라도 물어봐줘!
나는 편집자가 편집 능력을 습득할 때까지 편집을 그만두라고 충고했다.Quis 분리비트?20:05, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 그들은 <죽음의 사냥개>에서 크리스티 단편 소설의 제목이었던 소설에 같은 제목을 사용한 작가에게 수치심을 주고 싶어 하는 것 같다.아니면 그런 비슷한 것.하지만 당신이 링크를 삭제한 것은 맞는 것 같다.기사 페이지를 따라갔는데...너는 선의로 생각하고 있지만, 나는 지금으로서는 그럴 여지가 별로 없다고 본다.그들의 편집은 파괴적이며, 링크된 책의 저자인 부정적인 의도를 가지고 있는 것으로 보인다.에버그린피르(토크){{re}}}20:28, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- @EvergreenFir가 설명해줘서 고마워.Quis 분리비트?2016년 6월 1일 12시 56분 (UTC)[하라
- 안녕 Rms125a@hotmail.com!나는 여기와 여기의 당신의 반응을 지적하고 싶다.만약 여러분이 선의로 행동하고 싶다면, 누군가를 막으려고 위협하지 말고 그들이 트롤이나 바보인 것처럼 그들에게 말하라.화가 난 방식으로 누군가를 차단하기 위해 협박을 하는 것은("그것을 얻으라"고 후속 조치를 취할 때 당신의 반응은 본질적으로 그를 먹여 살리는 것이기 때문에, 나쁜 믿음의 편집자들에게 그들이 하고 있는 일을 계속하도록(그리고 더욱 그러하게) 유인할 것이다.아니면 정말 이해하지 못한 사람을 물 것이다.그리고 모든 대문자로 누군가에게 떠넘기는 것은 여러분이 화가 난 것처럼 보이게 하고, 단순히 새로운 사람을 더 쫓아내거나, 트롤에게 더 많은 것을 먹일 것이다.이 사용자와의 커뮤니케이션을 통해 더 많은 도움과 코칭이 필요한 경우, 내 토크 페이지에 메시지를 남겨주십시오.그게 내 특기인데, 기꺼이 도와드릴께 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)20:47, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 고마워, @Oshwah.나는 스트레스를 받고 있어서 전쟁터에서 물러났다.Quis 분리비트?2016년 6월 1일 12시 56분 (UTC)[하라
- 롭은 10년 동안 여기에 있었지만, 2016년 5월 31일 () 10:51, 31에 대해 고마워할 겁니다
- 친절한 말 고마워 @Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi.Quis 분리비트?2016년 6월 1일 12시 56분 (UTC)[하라
- Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi - LOL, 나는 그가 n00b라는 것을 생각하면서 그에게 도움을 준 것이 아니었다!숙련된 편집자도 DR과 커뮤니케이션에 도움이 필요할 때가 있다.그가 도움을 청해서 내가 도움을 청했다 :-D~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)18:03, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 고마워. 퀘이즈 분리비트?2016년 6월 1일 12시 56분 (UTC)[하라
- Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi - LOL, 나는 그가 n00b라는 것을 생각하면서 그에게 도움을 준 것이 아니었다!숙련된 편집자도 DR과 커뮤니케이션에 도움이 필요할 때가 있다.그가 도움을 청해서 내가 도움을 청했다 :-D~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)18:03, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
편집자에게 메모를 남겼다.만약 그나 그녀가 좋은 신앙의 편집자라면, 바라건대 도움이 될 것이다.만약 그나 그녀가 걷고 있다면, 이것은 곧 명백해질 것이다.다음에 무슨 일이 일어나는지 봅시다.뉴욕브래드 (대화) 21:25, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 고마워, @뉴욕브래드.Quis 분리비트?2016년 6월 1일 12시 56분 (UTC)[하라
무지마핀
상대적으로 새로운 사용자인 MugiMafin은 이미 여러 차례 "일본 아이돌"이라는 글의 정의를 바꾸려고 노력했다.지난 9월 이후 위키피디아에서 그가 하는 일은 거의 그것뿐이다.
토크 페이지에서 진행 중인 토론 내용 읽기
보시다시피, 그는 자신이 실행하고자 하는 변화에 대한 지지를 찾지 못했고, 그래서 아마 그렇게 행동했을 것이다. (사실, 나는 그의 생각이 타당하다고 생각했지만, 토론만 읽었을 뿐이다.그는 그 기사를 정말 쓰고 싶어하지 않는 것 같다.최근 그가 돌아올 때 가장 먼저 하는 일은 정의를 바꾸는 것이다.)
이제 오픈퓨처와 니혼조(일본 아이돌 토크페이지 토론에 참여한 적이 있는)에 대해 ping을 하겠다.
이것도 읽어봐.위키백과:관리자 알림판/3RRArchive314#사용자:사용자가 보고한 모스크바 연결:MugiMafin(결과: 거부됨).(다음 날 첫 경고 태그를 자신의 사용자 페이지에 올려놓았다고 신고하셨습니다.) --모스코 접속 (대화) 16:01, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 토론 내용을 읽어보면 알겠지만, 나는 사실 나의 변화에 대한 지지를 찾고, 토크 섹션의 출처로부터 관련 부분을 인용하고 설명했으며, 나의 마지막 편집으로 모스크바 커넥션의 모든 우려를 고려했다.자세한 내용은 다음을 참조하십시오: [61]MugiMafin (대화) 16:15, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 잘 들어라.왜 돌아와서 같은 일을 반복하는 거지?
(이미 이 일에 충분한 시간을 허비했다.이제 그 기사가 두어 달 동안 평화롭기를 바랄 뿐이다.) --모스코 커넥션 (대화) 16:48, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[ - AN3 보고서와 관련하여, 나는 3RR 위반사항이 보이지 않지만, 두 사람 모두 기사에 대해 4분의 1로 뒤처졌을 수 있는 전체 시간 때문에 누군가가 여전히 편집 전쟁을 볼 수도 있다.나는 네가 기사에 편집한 내용을 모두 보고 내가 찾은 것을 가지고 돌아올 거야.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일(UTC) 17:07 [
- 기사에 제공된 출처는...나는 그것이 명시적으로 "아이돌"이 무엇인지를 정의하고 있는 것을 보지 못했다.모스크바 커넥션, MugiMafin: 두 분 중 한 분이 출처에서 찾을 수 있도록 기사의 내용을 뒷받침하는 데 쓰이고 있는 인용문을 제게 제공해 주시겠습니까?다음과 같은 텍스트가 논란이 되고 있는 것으로 보인다. "최초의 신인 음악 연주자들은 아이돌(아오야기 1999년)과 같은 '제조된 스타'가 아닌 싱어송라이터였다." 모스크바 커넥션이 무기마핀의 변화(여기 등)를 되돌릴 때 언급하고 있는 것으로 보인다.이것을 확인해 주시겠습니까?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일(UTC) 17:23[
- 잘 들어라.왜 돌아와서 같은 일을 반복하는 거지?
그것은 항상 여기에 있었다. [62].
모스크바 연결의 출처에서 인용한 인용문 |
|---|
--모스크바 접속 (대화) 17:37, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
--모스크바 접속 (대화) 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC) 17:54 [
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또한 나는 그가 글의 낮은 곳에서 아이돌이 어떻게 변했는지에 대한 모든 추가 정보를 추가할 수 있다고 여러 번 제안했다는 것을 주목한다.그러나 그는 계속 돌아와 첫 문장을 바꾸기만 했다.(그래, 그는 작은 단락 하나를 추가했지만 언급조차 하지 않았다.참고하라고 했는데도 안 하셨어요.) --모스코 커넥션 (대화) 18:13, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- 모스크바 연결 - 오, 완벽해.감사합니다.나는 먼저 기사에서 편집한 내용을 살펴보기 시작했고, 출처를 살펴보기 시작했다.분명히, 나는 토크 페이지 토론부터 시작했어야 했다; 그렇지 않았다면 나는 네가 언급하고 있는 참고문헌을 보여주어야만 하는 시간을 낭비하지 않았을 것이다.그건 미안한데.. :-) ~ 오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC]
- 나는 너의 책 출처와 인용문이 괜찮다고 생각해.그들은 이 문화에서 "아이돌"로 여겨지는 것과 다른 관점을 제공하며, 당신의 기사 버전은 그들을 언급한다.나는 (모스크바 커넥션에서 팔 비틀기를 한 후) 무기마핀이 마침내 책(여기)을 제공했지만, 이 출처의 일부 문구를 사용하는 것에 대해 무기마핀에 의해 (뒤로 되돌리는 것에 이어) 의견 불일치가 있는 것으로 보인다.내가 생각하기에 우리가 가지고 있는 문제는 사람들이 그들이 "우상"이라고 정의하는 것뿐만 아니라 그들이 무엇을 혹은 누구를 우상화하는지 다른 견해를 가지고 있다는 사실이다.당신의 두 가지 관점을 모두 제공하는 것이 무엇이 잘못되었는가?'아이돌은 이렇게 정의될 수 있지만, 다른 사람들은 '아이돌도 그렇게 정의될 수 있다'는 기사가 나오는 곳?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일 19:29 (UTC)[
- 모스크바 연결 - 오, 완벽해.감사합니다.나는 먼저 기사에서 편집한 내용을 살펴보기 시작했고, 출처를 살펴보기 시작했다.분명히, 나는 토크 페이지 토론부터 시작했어야 했다; 그렇지 않았다면 나는 네가 언급하고 있는 참고문헌을 보여주어야만 하는 시간을 낭비하지 않았을 것이다.그건 미안한데.. :-) ~ 오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC]
- "용어의 유사성" 섹션의 첫 단락을 말하는 겁니까?그것은 사실 참고가 된다.또한, 기사의 문제는 확실히 충분한 단락이 없다는 것이 아니다.문제는 기존의 많은 단락들이 제대로 소스가 되지 않거나 잘못 해석되거나 출처를 잘못 선택한 결과(정의가 내가 보는 방식과 마찬가지로)라는 점이다.그래서 나는 기사에 더 많은 단락을 추가하는 대신에 위에서 아래로 기존의 단락들을 개선하는 것을 선호한다.무지마핀 (대화) 2016년 5월 31일 ( 18:42, 응답
- MugiMafin - 네, 이 섹션이 두 분이 이 분쟁을 벌였던 곳인 것 같으니. :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 우리는 전체 기사의 첫 문장에 대해 논쟁을 벌였다.
그러나 그렇다, 나는 MugiMafin이 기사에 추가한 단 하나의 단락을 참고하기를 바란다, 그리고 그것은 "근거" 부분의 첫 단락이다.Cause, you know, he said that the writer was bad and nonsourceed and his important to an adviation its against the ourced. 원인에 따르면, 글의 내용을 알 수 있는가?
인용:
아이돌은 흔히 '젊은 제작 스타/스타트'와 같은 것으로 정의되지만, 30세 전후부터 40세 이상까지 다양한 그룹 SMAP나 아라시처럼 그런 정의의 경계를 허무는 아이돌이 있다."[63] --모스코 커넥션(토크) 19:51, 2016년 5월 31일(UTC)[
- 아니, 우리는 전체 기사의 첫 문장에 대해 논쟁을 벌였다.
- MugiMafin - 네, 이 섹션이 두 분이 이 분쟁을 벌였던 곳인 것 같으니. :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- MugiMafin - 정확히 어떤 출처가 "나쁜 선택"인가?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일(UTC) 19:43[
- 단지 오늘날 일본 아이돌이 무엇인지를 정의하기 위한 기초가 되는 것에 관해서만 해도 그 어느 출처도 전체적으로 나쁘다고 말하려는 것은 아니었다.1999년(2권)과 2005년(1권)의 아오야기 인용문은 2012년 아오야기가 아이돌에 대해 처음 책을 썼을 때 전혀 예상하지 못했던 방식으로 아이돌이 변했다고 밝혔기 때문에 의문이다.《북4》의 인용문은 아이돌이 항상 여성이라고 말하는데, 이는 사실이 아니며, 《북5》의 인용문은 사실 "1990년대 초까지"로 정의를 시작하며, 현대적인 정의에 사용되어서는 안 된다는 것을 암시한다.하지만 3권 인용문은 괜찮다.무지마핀 (대화)20:15, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 위 인용문에는 실제로 '매력적인 젊은 남녀 배우, 청소년 롤모델로 포장되어 홍보된 청춘 배우', '제조된 스타', '다른 상품과 마찬가지로 디자인, 통제, 마케팅을 하는 귀염성, 소녀 옆집 가수'라는 정의를 내려주는 세 가지 정도의 인용문이 있다.그것들은 사용된다.다른 모든 것은 별도의 단락으로 추가할 수 있다.리드 섹션에 단락을 하나 더 추가해 보는 것은 어떨까?이미 여러 번 하자고 제안했는데 자꾸 첫 문장을 바꿔.
(그런데, 나는 그 글에 충분한 단락이 없다고 생각한다.시간적 여유가 있다면 훨씬 더 보태고 싶다.) --모스코 커넥션(토크) 19:34, 2016년 5월 31일 ()[응답
- MugiMafin - 정확히 어떤 출처가 "나쁜 선택"인가?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일(UTC) 19:43[
- 모든 상황에 대한 나의 의견은 Mugi Mafin이 그가 더 좋아하는 새로운 ref를 위해 너무 오래되었다고 생각하는 모든 ref를 버리고 싶어한다는 것이다. 그리고 그는 그것을 하기 위해 전쟁을 편집하고 있다.그건 그냥 날지 않아.모두 사용할 수 있으며, 수년간에 걸친 정의의 미세한 변화를 지적하는 글에 문구를 넣을 수 있다(용어의 약간 확대된 것으로는 보지 않는다).그는 토론에 참여하면서 정책과 지침을 무시하는 동시에 정의를 자신이 선호하는 방식으로 진행하도록 시도했다(본 섹션의 상단에 있는 편집에서 입증함).그는 다른 사람들과 더 잘 노는 법을 배워야 한다. 그렇지 않으면 그는 차단될 것이다.····
- 안녕 니혼조!당신은 분명히 나보다 이 상황과 논쟁에 대해 더 많이 알고 있다. (나는 아직도 "잘 알아들어" 있다.)하하). 그러나 나는 몇 년에 걸친 정의의 변화에 대해 이야기하자는 당신의 제안에 동의한다.위에서 말했듯이, 그 정의는 모든 사람에 따라 다르다; "아이돌"을 정의하는 것의 여러 측면들이 분명히 나타날 것이다.또한 무기마핀이 나이를 이유로 참고자료를 거절한 것에 대한 정보도 감사하게 생각한다.기사는 아이돌의 정의를 '최고의 정의'로 대신할 것이 아니라 모든 정의를 평등과 공정성으로 다루어야 한다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 31일 19:37 (UTC)[
- 나는 사실 옛 평론가들이 머무르는 것에 전혀 개의치 않지만, 나는 우리가 그들로부터 새롭고 덜 제한적인 정의를 도출해야 한다고 생각했다.단지 나의 하나의 출처 때문만이 아니라, 현재의 정의의 세 가지 속성, 즉 "젊음", "제조", "별/별자리" 모두에 대한 반증이 있기 때문이다."젊음"에 대한 반대 예시는 이미 "용어의 유사성" 부분에 언급되어 있는 반면, "제조"와 "별/별자리"에 대한 반대 예시는 여기에 보관되어 있는 기사 출처 목록의 마지막 출처에서 언급된 바와 같이 자체 제작 순 우상의 형태로 나타난다[64].내가 모스크바 커넥션에 몇 번 말했듯이, 이러한 경우를 설명하기 위해 "일반적으로"와 같은 단어를 정의에 포함시키는 것만으로도 사실 괜찮았을 텐데, 그는 그것을 받아들이지도 않았다.사실 나는 서론에서 두 가지 이상의 정의를 제공하려는 오슈와의 생각이 정말 마음에 드는데, 모스크바 커넥션이 그것을 받아들이도록 한다면 좋을 것이다.무지마핀 (대화) 2016년 5월 31일 19:59 (UTC)[
- 1. 세상의 모든 정의에 대한 반대 예를 찾을 수 있다.
2. 현재의 정의는 일반적인 경우를 정의하고 실제로 정의("매력적인 젊은 배우, 남성 또는 여성, 청소년 역할 모델로서 패키지화 및 홍보", "제조된 스타", "귀여운 옆집 가수" 등 3가지 소스에 의해 직접적으로 지원된다.er 제품 탤런트 에이전시들은 광고, 음악, 텔레비전 드라마, 공연 투어에서 그러한 스타들을 홍보한다.)
3. 당신이 하는 일의 결과는 너무나 모호해서 세계의 거의 모든 팝스타들에게 사용될 수 있다.그렇다면 정의의 요점은 무엇인가?'베이비메탈', 'AKB48', '모닝구무스메', '큐트', '아라시' 같은 글에서 독자가 나올 것이고, 무엇을 읽을 것인가?저 우상이 사람인가?반면 현재의 정의는 매우 잘 작동한다.(모든 카운터 예는 별도의 섹션에서 논할 수 있다.내가 "엄청난" 부분을 추가하자고 제안했는데, 네가 해냈으니, 지금 써.뭐가 문제야, 정말?첫 문장을 바꾸는 이유는?) --모스크바 접속 (대화) 20:21, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[- '넷 아이돌'은 '넷 아이돌'로, '아이돌'이라는 단어의 상식이 아니다.(그런데 이미 '넷·가상 아이돌' 코너에서 논의되고 있다.그건 공급되지 않은 거야참조를 추가하지 않으시겠습니까?그리고 "주변" 섹션에서 언급할 수 있다.) --Moscow Connection -Moscow Connection (토크) 21:03, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 그런데 지금까지 당신이 제공한 유일한 역례는 역례도 아니다.어릴 때부터 시작해서 이제 나이가 든 두 팝 그룹?그래서 어쩌라고젊은 것 같아. --모스크바 커넥션(토크) 20:38, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 오슈와가 제안한 대로 도입부에서 두 가지 이상의 정의를 사용해도 괜찮으시겠습니까?무지마핀 (대화)20:45, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 나는 무엇이 두 번째 정의로 사용될 수 있는지 잘 모르겠다.그러나 기억한다면, 우리의 토론이 시작된 직후부터 나는 첫 번째 문장을 바꾸는 대신에 두 번째 단락이 될 수 있다고 말했고, 당신이 그것을 덧붙이기를 기다렸으나, 첫 번째 문장을 대신 다시 바꾸었다.) --MoScow Connection (talk) 21:12, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- 기사를 봤는데 리드 섹션의 네 번째 단락으로 또 다른 정의를 추가할 수 있을 것 같아.정확히 어떻게 생겼으면 좋겠어?어떻게 리드 섹션에 통합하여 제자리에 어울리지 않게 보이도록 할 수 있는가?정확한 표현을 제안해 주시겠습니까? --모스크바 접속 (대화) 21:50, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 이미 며칠 전 토크 페이지에서 내가 선호하는 정의 자료로 언급한 바 있다. 일본에서 고도로 생산되고 홍보된 가수, 모델, 미디어 인격을 지칭하는 단어인 '아이돌스'의 힘이다.아이돌은 남자든 여자든 할 수 있고, 젊어지는 경향이 있거나, 자신을 '그런' 존재로 내세운다.6권에서도 나왔어.위의 오슈와를 예로 들자면, 최종본은 다음과 같이 보일 수 있다: "아이돌은 젊은 제조 스타/스타렛으로 정의될 수 있다. 반면에 다른 사람들은 이 단어가 남성이나 여성일 수 있고 Y인 경향이 있는 고도로 생산되고 홍보된 가수, 모델, 미디어 인격을 지칭하는 데 사용된다고 말한다.웅 또는 그 자신을"과 같은 존재로 나타내다.기사에 이렇게 써도 될까?무지마핀 (대화) 22:10, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 너무 많은 단어, 너무 반복적이고 복잡해서, "다른 사람들이 말하는 "다른 사람들이" "정의할 수 있다"와 맞지 않는 반면, 후반부는 원본에서 복사 붙여넣기이다.
다른 버전이 있으십니까?
정말, 다른 정의를 별도의 문단으로 추가하고 싶지 않으세요?왜 또 첫 문장이야?왜 연속적으로 두 가지 정의가 있어야 하는가?이 버전을 보면 이런 건 안 될 것 같아.사람이 읽을 수 없고 이해할 수 없는 것이다.(정말로 전반부는 받을 수 있고, 후반부는 받을 수 있지만, 두 개를 합칠 수는 없다.) --모스코 접속 (대화) 22:37, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[- 내가 다른 제안을 하기 전에 오스와가 내 제안에 대해 어떻게 생각하는지 듣고 싶어. 왜냐하면 지금까지 너는 나의 10가지 제안을 모두 거절했고, 항상 정당한 이유로 거절하지는 않았기 때문이야.네가 이번에 준 이유도 내게는 특별히 정당하게 들리지 않고, 다음에는 다를까 의심스럽기 때문에 이 프로포즈 게임과 완전한 거절의 게임을 끝없이 계속하기보다는 남들이 먼저 해야 할 말을 먼저 들어보고 싶다.또한, 당신의 반대는 문장이 어떻게 들리는지 주로 신경쓰는 것 같기 때문에, 당신은 당신이 원하는 것처럼 들리면서 내 의미론적 내용을 유지하는 것을 스스로 제안할 수 있다.뭐가 너한테 좋고 뭐가 안 좋은지 모르겠으니 여기서 날 도와줘야 해.무지마핀 (대화) 13:07, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 너무 많은 단어, 너무 반복적이고 복잡해서, "다른 사람들이 말하는 "다른 사람들이" "정의할 수 있다"와 맞지 않는 반면, 후반부는 원본에서 복사 붙여넣기이다.
- 이미 며칠 전 토크 페이지에서 내가 선호하는 정의 자료로 언급한 바 있다. 일본에서 고도로 생산되고 홍보된 가수, 모델, 미디어 인격을 지칭하는 단어인 '아이돌스'의 힘이다.아이돌은 남자든 여자든 할 수 있고, 젊어지는 경향이 있거나, 자신을 '그런' 존재로 내세운다.6권에서도 나왔어.위의 오슈와를 예로 들자면, 최종본은 다음과 같이 보일 수 있다: "아이돌은 젊은 제조 스타/스타렛으로 정의될 수 있다. 반면에 다른 사람들은 이 단어가 남성이나 여성일 수 있고 Y인 경향이 있는 고도로 생산되고 홍보된 가수, 모델, 미디어 인격을 지칭하는 데 사용된다고 말한다.웅 또는 그 자신을"과 같은 존재로 나타내다.기사에 이렇게 써도 될까?무지마핀 (대화) 22:10, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 오슈와가 제안한 대로 도입부에서 두 가지 이상의 정의를 사용해도 괜찮으시겠습니까?무지마핀 (대화)20:45, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 1. 세상의 모든 정의에 대한 반대 예를 찾을 수 있다.
정말로 필요한 것은 먼저 기사 자체를 업데이트하고, 그 다음에 무엇이 선행되어야 하는지를 결정하는 것이다.리드는 기사의 내용을 간략히 요약한 것이어야 하므로, 리드 이외의 기사에서 이미 언급된 내용이 없는 한 리드 안에 있어서는 안 된다.····
- 그래, 나도 그럴 생각이야.그러나 "용어의 유사성" 섹션의 첫 번째 단락[65]은 이미 선두에 있는 정의에 무엇이 문제가 있는지 설명하고 있다.따라서 우리가 그 기사를 반영하기 위한 리드를 원한다면, "아이돌은 젊은 제조 별/별" 부분을 "아이돌"과 같이 "아이돌"은 일반적으로 젊은 제조 별/별을 지칭하는 용어"와 같은 것으로 바꾸는 것이 최소한의 정의다.동의하지 않으세요?그게 내가 정말 원하는 절충안이다.무지마핀 (대화) 19:15, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- "일반적으로 사용되는 용어인가" — 그래, 나도 동의해.그리고 귀여움이 공통적인 특징이고 다른 모든 것은 선택사항이며 아이돌은 여전히 귀엽다는 것이 명백하게 된다면 (최근 당신이 인용하고 있는 출처로부터) "classy"나 이와 같은 것을 덧붙이는데 동의한다.나는 그것이 두 번째 단락으로 추가되는 것을 선호하지만, 만약 당신이 정말로 원한다면, 두 번째 문장으로, 또는 심지어 첫 번째 문장에 추가되는 것으로도 말이다.(그런데, 나는 지금의 "보통 귀엽다"라는 표현에서 "보통"이라는 단어가 마음에 들지 않는다.'공통' 같은 것으로 바뀔 수도 있고, 그 다음에 아이돌이 더 [여기에 무엇인가]로 바뀌었다는 것이 추가될 수도 있다고 생각한다.그러나 그 정의는 짧고 명확해야 한다.)영어 원어민으로서의 니혼조가 도움이 되었으면 좋겠다.
(그런데, '어떤 연예인의 성격인가'로 시작하는 당신의 생각이 마음에 들었다고 말할 수밖에 없다.그런데 그 때 떨어뜨리고 다시는 돌아오지 않았다.) (미안해, 그런데.전에 당신의 이런 댓글을 본 적이 있는지 잘 모르겠어.) --모스코 접속 (대화) 02:24, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
- "일반적으로 사용되는 용어인가" — 그래, 나도 동의해.그리고 귀여움이 공통적인 특징이고 다른 모든 것은 선택사항이며 아이돌은 여전히 귀엽다는 것이 명백하게 된다면 (최근 당신이 인용하고 있는 출처로부터) "classy"나 이와 같은 것을 덧붙이는데 동의한다.나는 그것이 두 번째 단락으로 추가되는 것을 선호하지만, 만약 당신이 정말로 원한다면, 두 번째 문장으로, 또는 심지어 첫 번째 문장에 추가되는 것으로도 말이다.(그런데, 나는 지금의 "보통 귀엽다"라는 표현에서 "보통"이라는 단어가 마음에 들지 않는다.'공통' 같은 것으로 바뀔 수도 있고, 그 다음에 아이돌이 더 [여기에 무엇인가]로 바뀌었다는 것이 추가될 수도 있다고 생각한다.그러나 그 정의는 짧고 명확해야 한다.)영어 원어민으로서의 니혼조가 도움이 되었으면 좋겠다.
- 두 분 모두 토크페이지에서 공감대를 형성하기 위한 공동의 노력이 필요하다고 생각한다.서로의 행동을 논하지 마라.제안하는 변경사항을 명확히 정의하고 제안된 변경사항을 백업하기 위한 참조를 포함하십시오.타협할 수 있다.우리는 종종 우리가 원하는 모든 것을 얻지 못하지만, 모두가 결과에 합리적으로 만족한다면, 그것이 우리가 목표로 하는 것이다.이 경우 (현재로서는) 관리자들이 할 일이 없기 때문에 이 실이 계속 열려 있을 이유가 없다고 본다.····
머리글의 개인 공격에 대한 빠른 질문
Al-Andalusi라는 편집자는 기사 Talk 페이지를 편집하여 머리글에 내 이름을 적고 개인적으로 나를 공격했다.나는 헤더를 중립적인 문구로 바꾸어 WP의 편집자에게 다음과 같이 알렸다.TALKNNEW - 헤더에 편집자의 이름을 지정하고 헤더에 편집자를 공격하는 것을 금지한다.지금 그는 나와 문제의 헤더를 지키기 위해 편집전을 벌이고 있다.관리자가 가이드라인을 오해하고 있는지 알려줄 수 있는가? (전체 공개:같은 편집자가 현재 기사에 대한 나의 모든 편집을 되돌리고 있고, 나는 그/그녀의 보도를 매우 가까이 하고 있기 때문에, 이 바보 같은 우려는 훨씬 더 큰 문제의 일부일 뿐이다.)안녕하십니까, 정신분열증 (대화)20:40, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 이 사용자의 편집 내역이 있으므로 일주일 동안 차단됨.이 사용자의 다른 조치에 대해 보고서를 작성하십시오. 추가 제재가 필요할 수 있기 때문입니다.나이튼드 (대화) 21:26, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 중립 섹션 표제를 복원했다.블록 공지 604800초도 1주로 변경. -- The Videwalker 21:39, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- (편집 갈등) 음... 모두 니텐드를 존중하지만, 난 그 블록을 문제 삼을 거야 (공개: 약 10분 전까지만 해도 미공개)실제로 3RR을 넘은 사람은 없는 것으로 보이며, 문제의 역사 자체만으로는 블록 하나로는 충분하지 않다.더욱이 OP는 자체 블록 로그가 길다.
- 이것은 얇은 베일에 싸인 내용 논쟁이라는 것이 내게 꽤 분명해 보인다.누군가가 그들을 우파라고 부르거나 헤더에 그들의 이름을 사용했기 때문에 나는 OP가 ANI 수준이라고 믿기 어렵다.그 대신 두 편집자는 거의 하루의 대부분을 대화 대신 서로를 되돌아보는 데 사용한 것 같고, 안달루시가 마침내 (어떤 OP가 먼저 시작했어야 하는지를) 대화를 하러 갔을 때, OP는 사소한 일로 또 다른 대화 편집 전쟁을 시작하였고, 곧바로 ANI로 달려갔다.
- 미안하지만, TOKNNEW에 대한 경계선상의 위키리듬과 가장 가벼운 자극이 OP가 조금 전에 시작했어야 할 콘텐츠 토론을 피할 수 있는 블록을 쉽게 정당화하지는 못한다.나는 페이지 토크에서 이 모든 것이 머물렀어야 하는 다른 내용 관련 이슈들을 다루었다.티모시 조셉우드 21:58, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 여기와 Talk 페이지에 있는 Timothyjosephwood 기사에 참여해 주셔서 감사하다.나는 기사에서 문제가 될 수 있는 내용에 대한 당신의 논평(즉, "우파" 성격화)과 그 중 내가 추가한 것은 하나도 없고, 알-안달루시에게 그의 부적절한 토크 페이지 머리말과 인신공격에 대한 당신의 훈계에서도 장점을 발견한다.나는 당신의 주장에서 어떤 종류의 "위킬러웨이징"이 일어났다는 장점이나, 나에 대한 편견과 인종차별에 대한 비난에 대한 설명에서 (관리자가 아니라) 단지 "불행의 가장 야만적인 것"에 불과하다는 장점을 보지 못한다.외국인정신분열증 (대화) 22:39, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- (또 다른 편집 충돌) 또한 OP는 이와 같은 편집으로 심각한 부메랑 영토에 있으며, 이는 근본적으로 편집 전쟁의 연속이지만, 편집 요약본은 "+위킬링크"로 되어 있다(그들은 분명히 700바이트에 가까운 순수 대괄호를 추가했기 때문이다).티모시 조셉우드 22:16, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 내 편집 또는 편집 요약을 잘못 입력하지 마십시오.나는 편집 화면을 열었고, 정확한 이름을 조사한 후, 그 섹션에 있는 두 개의 "앨런스"에 두 개의 위키링크를 추가한 다음 "페이지 저장"을 클릭했다.그 사이에 다른 편집자가 전면복귀를 도입했다는 사실은 내게는 알 수 없었고, 편집 충돌을 일으키지도 않았고, 확실히 의도적으로복귀전쟁의 일부가 아니었다.외국인정신분열증 (대화) 22:39, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- @Timothyjosephwood:당신은 WP:3RR에 대해 말하고 있는데, 이것은 전쟁 편집을 위한 밝은 선 규칙이다.그러나 편집 전쟁 정책은 3RR 없이 독자적으로 서서 "편집 전쟁은 페이지의 내용에 대해 동의하지 않는 편집자들이 반복적으로 서로의 기여를 무시할 때 일어난다...행정가들은 경고나 차단을 할 것인지 결정하는데, 이것은 그것을 처벌하기 위한 것이 아니라 파괴적인 행동의 변화를 예방하고, 저지하고, 장려하기 위한 것이다.블록이 적절한 경우 초범에 대해 24시간이 일반적이다. 관리자는 반복되거나 가중된 위반에 대해 더 긴 블록을 발급하는 경향이 있으며, 예의범절이나 이전 블록과 같은 다른 요소를 고려할 것이다."편집 전쟁의 정의는 얼마나 많은 시간이 되돌아가는가를 언급하지 않는다. 3RR은 우리가 본질적으로 쉬운 결정을 내리기 위해 사용할 수 있는 하나의 표준 밝은 선일 뿐이다.그러나 편집 전쟁 자체는 특정 기간의 편집 횟수를 포함하되 이에 국한되지 않는 많은 요인에 대한 보다 주관적인 고려가 될 수 있다.--v/r - TP 23:05, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- @TParis:그래, 나는 3RR에 익숙하고, 두 편집자가 모두 기사와 화제에 대한 편집 전쟁을 벌였다는 사실에도 익숙하다.하나를 금지하려면 둘 다 금지하고 열을 식히도록 두십시오.두 가지 이유로 하나를 금지시키는 것은 둘 다 대화를 했어야 했을 때 그들의 감정을 다치게 하고 ANI로 달려가는 첫 번째 사람에게만 보상하는 것이었다.티모시 조셉우드 23:34, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 우리는 블록을 냉각시키지 않고 단지 다른 블록을 막았다고 해서 한 사람을 차단하지 않는다.이것은 공정성 게시판이 아니다.관리자들은 상황을 보고 재량권을 발휘하여 혼란을 종식시켜야 한다.니텐드는 그들 중 한 명이 다른 한 명보다 더 파괴적이라고 판단하고 자신의 재량 범위 내에서 행동했다.누가 먼저 ANI에 도착했는지는 아무 상관이 없다.--v/r - TP 23:43, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[하라
- @TParis:그래, 나는 3RR에 익숙하고, 두 편집자가 모두 기사와 화제에 대한 편집 전쟁을 벌였다는 사실에도 익숙하다.하나를 금지하려면 둘 다 금지하고 열을 식히도록 두십시오.두 가지 이유로 하나를 금지시키는 것은 둘 다 대화를 했어야 했을 때 그들의 감정을 다치게 하고 ANI로 달려가는 첫 번째 사람에게만 보상하는 것이었다.티모시 조셉우드 23:34, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- @Timothyjosephwood:당신은 WP:3RR에 대해 말하고 있는데, 이것은 전쟁 편집을 위한 밝은 선 규칙이다.그러나 편집 전쟁 정책은 3RR 없이 독자적으로 서서 "편집 전쟁은 페이지의 내용에 대해 동의하지 않는 편집자들이 반복적으로 서로의 기여를 무시할 때 일어난다...행정가들은 경고나 차단을 할 것인지 결정하는데, 이것은 그것을 처벌하기 위한 것이 아니라 파괴적인 행동의 변화를 예방하고, 저지하고, 장려하기 위한 것이다.블록이 적절한 경우 초범에 대해 24시간이 일반적이다. 관리자는 반복되거나 가중된 위반에 대해 더 긴 블록을 발급하는 경향이 있으며, 예의범절이나 이전 블록과 같은 다른 요소를 고려할 것이다."편집 전쟁의 정의는 얼마나 많은 시간이 되돌아가는가를 언급하지 않는다. 3RR은 우리가 본질적으로 쉬운 결정을 내리기 위해 사용할 수 있는 하나의 표준 밝은 선일 뿐이다.그러나 편집 전쟁 자체는 특정 기간의 편집 횟수를 포함하되 이에 국한되지 않는 많은 요인에 대한 보다 주관적인 고려가 될 수 있다.--v/r - TP 23:05, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 정책은 확고하다. 헤더는 중립적이어야 한다.편집-워링은 블록 가치가 있기 위해 3RR 라인을 넘을 필요가 없다; 중립적이지 않은 헤더를 포함하기 위해 편집-전쟁을 할 때, 더 빠른 블록이 보증되며, 이미 편집-워링에 대한 최근 블록 이력이 있을 때, "이 사람은 정책을 몰랐을 수도 있다"는 이유로 관대할 이유가 없다.나이튼드 (대화) 22:11, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 미안하지만, 이번 건은 네가 틀렸어.둘 다 편집 전쟁 중이었다.둘 다 그 토크에서 세 번 반전을 했다.편집 충돌에서 위에서 지적한 바와 같이, OP는 기만적인 요약을 이용하여 기사에 대한 그들의 싸움을 의도적으로 숨기고 있었다.둘 다 대화를 하러 가서 실제로 이야기를 했어야 했고, OP는 대화를 피하기 위해 사소한 점보다는 완고함을 택했다.
- 다시 한 번, 미안하지만 "중립적이어야 한다"는 주장은 WP:이 경우에는 일반적이다.그것은 그들을 나치라고 부르는 헤딩이 아니라, 그들의 이름을 사용하는 헤딩이었고, 더 나아가 편집본을 식별하고 다루기 위해서였다.티모시 조셉우드 22:31, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- OP는 기만적인 요약을 사용하여 기사에 대한 그들의 전쟁을 의도적으로 숨기고 있었다.
- 부정확하다(그리고 어처구니없는 불신의 가정).편집 요약이 편집 충돌을 숨길 수 있는 정확한 방법은?그리고 위에서 설명한 것처럼 속임수는 없었다.이것은 당신에게 충격적일 수 있지만, 모든 편집은 바이트 단위로 변화를 표시하며, 각각 개별적으로 검사될 수 있다.편집 전쟁을 감시할 책임이 있는 사람이라면 편집 요약 내용에 상관없이 그 교환에 두 명의 편집자가 관여했음을 알 수 있다.
- OP는 대화를 피하기 위해 사소한 점에 대해 완고함을 선택했다.
- 오, 제발.나는 Talk 페이지에서 편집자의 고민을 하나하나 다뤘고 참을성 있게 답변을 기다리고 있었다.수정하시겠습니까?외국인정신분열증 (대화) 22:55, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 끈기 있게 반응을 기다리는 것이 아니라, 마치 머리칼에 이름이 나타나느냐 안 나오느냐가 생사의 문제인 것처럼 대담에서 전쟁을 편집하고 있었다.처음 돌아오고 나서 얘기하러 갔어야지.당신은 그 강연에서 전쟁을 편집하기 전에 반응을 기다렸어야 했다.논쟁의 여지가 있는 기사에 2, 3페이지 분량의 편집 내용을 되돌린 다음 다른 편집자를 가능한 한 잘난 체하는 어조로 '빈칸 리턴(blanket revert)'이라고 조롱하지 말았어야 했다.
- 그 거래소에는 정말로 두 명의 편집자가 참여했고, 그것이 바로 내 요점이다.당신은 두 명의 금지령이 있든, 아니면 두 명의 사람이 대화 중에 어른처럼 대화를 이어가는 법을 배우든, 다른 사람이 하는 것과 같은 대우를 필요로 한다.티머시 조셉우드
- 정책 준수 헤더와 정책과 강하게 상충되는 헤더의 싸움이었다.나는 정책을 시행한 것에 대해 누군가를 제재할 생각은 없다.더욱이 WP:WIAPA는 확실한 증거 없이 행해진 신상에 대한 근거 없는 비난이 인신공격으로 간주된다고 말한다.나는 네가 Xen comfortician에 대한 근거 없는 비난들을 그만둘 것을 제안한다. 왜냐하면 한 블록은 멀지 않기 때문이다.나이튼드 (대화) 00:24, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 와우. 그래서 나는 ANI에 대한 지루한 숙독을 통해 그것에 참여하기 전까지 관여하지 않았던 주제에 대해 반대 의견을 제시했다.나는 WP에 의해 관련 관리자에게 다음과 같이 연설했다.GBU, 그리고 (명백하게 순진하게) 행정부는 적어도 잠정적으로 보류된 합의안에 대해 그들의 결정을 재검토할 것을 기대했고, 대신 그들은 나를 막겠다고 협박했는가?이 싸움에서 특별히 개를 기르지는 않는데, 그것이 내 기여의 전부였다: 세 번째의 자발적이지 않은 의견을 제시하는 것이었다.
이 사건의 '발견자'는 ANI가 있다는 통보를 받은 지 41초 만에 금지됐다.미안하지만, 그 시간대에 네가 이 상황을 제대로 조사했을 리가 없어.나는 너의 허가가 내 허락을 능가한다는 것을 이해하지만, 너의 의견은 합의점을 결정하는 만큼 그렇지 않다.두 사용자 모두 틀렸고, 두 사용자 모두 전쟁을 편집했으며, 제3자에 의해 금지된 것에 대해 이의를 제기할 때 최소한 합의의 시도는 시도되어야 한다.- RfC나 DR은 이 모든 것의 서문이었어야 했다.콘텐츠 분쟁을 인지하고 그곳으로 안내했어야 하는데 그러지 않았어.나는 개인적인 행동에 대한 나의 비난에 찬성하며 나는 당신이 그 문제에 대한 자발적인 토론과 당신의 결정을 보류하는 것에 개방적이어야 한다는 나의 제안을 지지한다.티모시 조셉우드 01:08, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 정책 준수 헤더와 정책과 강하게 상충되는 헤더의 싸움이었다.나는 정책을 시행한 것에 대해 누군가를 제재할 생각은 없다.더욱이 WP:WIAPA는 확실한 증거 없이 행해진 신상에 대한 근거 없는 비난이 인신공격으로 간주된다고 말한다.나는 네가 Xen comfortician에 대한 근거 없는 비난들을 그만둘 것을 제안한다. 왜냐하면 한 블록은 멀지 않기 때문이다.나이튼드 (대화) 00:24, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 내 편집 또는 편집 요약을 잘못 입력하지 마십시오.나는 편집 화면을 열었고, 정확한 이름을 조사한 후, 그 섹션에 있는 두 개의 "앨런스"에 두 개의 위키링크를 추가한 다음 "페이지 저장"을 클릭했다.그 사이에 다른 편집자가 전면복귀를 도입했다는 사실은 내게는 알 수 없었고, 편집 충돌을 일으키지도 않았고, 확실히 의도적으로복귀전쟁의 일부가 아니었다.외국인정신분열증 (대화) 22:39, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
티모시조셉우드:과장된 말, 잘못된 표현, 과장된 말을 조금만 뒤로 돌려줄 수 있을까?응, 나는 정확히 60분 동안 참을성 있게 답변을 기다리고 있었어.나는 알-안달루시의 우려에 대응했고, 나 자신의 명확한 질문을 했고, 나는 기다렸다.알-안달루시는 (걱정을 가진 편집자로서) 토론을 시작했다는 이유로 칭찬을 받는데, 그 후 나는 그 기사를 더 이상 편집하는 것을 자제했다.그러나 그는 내가 답변을 기다리는 동안 계속 기사를 편집했다.Talk 페이지를 방문하여 정책 위반 헤더를 반복적으로 삽입할 수 있는 시간을 찾을 수 있었지만(물론 내가 되돌린 것이지만), 내가 기다리는 동안 그는 콘텐츠에 대한 우려에 대해 토론할 필요가 없었다.너는 내가 "두 세 페이지 분량의 편집 내용을 번복하지 말았어야 했다"고 말했고, 나도 동의해 - 그래서 내가 편집하지 않은 거야.나의 편집은 겨우 600바이트에 달했고, 나는 다른 편집자의 편집 대부분을 보존하는 한편, 일부를 개선해 두어 개(인용된 출처의 지원을 받지 못할 때)를 되돌리는 데 신중을 기했다.내가 맞춰볼게, 너는 그것을 "blanket revert"라고 부를거야?위키피디아에서 'blanket revert'라는 용어의 의미를 찾아본 결과, 이번 교류에서 단 한 명의 편집자만이 'blanket reverts'를 해왔으며, 그것은 내가 아니었다는 것이 명백하다.네가 토크 페이지에서 시간을 내서 책을 읽지는 않겠다고 한 건 이해하지만, 네가 비판하고 있는 편집본을 실제로 검토할 시간을 내 달라고 부탁한다.그리고 당신의 "성인처럼" 논평이 끝난 후, 나는 "가능한 한 가장 잘난 체하는 말투"에 대한 당신의 비난에 대해서는 언급을 보류할 것이다.이 ANI 논의의 통지에 있는 타임 스탬프와 적어도 30분 후에 블록을 다시 확인해 보는 것이 좋을 것이다.
팀, 편집전에 두 명이 필요하다는 네 말이 맞아. 그리고 많은 행정관들은 상황에 상관없이 같은 망치로 모든 관련자들을 때리는 것이 더 쉽다는 것을 알게 될 거야.니튼의 마음을 읽을 수는 없지만, 어떤 사실이 나에게 유리하게 작용했으면 좋겠다.우리 중 한 명은 토론이 시작되자 기사 편집을 중단했다.우리 중 한 명은 동료 편집자들을 "활동가" 편집하거나 인종차별을 암시한다고 비난하지 않았다.우리 중 한 명은 정책 위반 헤더를 토크 페이지에 추가하기 위해 편집 전쟁을 하지 않았다.하지만 그래, 우리 둘 다 콘텐츠 분쟁에 휘말렸지.안녕하십니까, 정신분열증 (대화) 01:36, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
[제인적 정신분열증과의 갈등 편집] 내가 그 기사에 대한 편집은 보지 않았다는 것을 명심하라.통지와 블록 사이에 얼마나 오랜 시간이 흘렀는지는 상관없다. 필요한 것은 몇 가지 차이점을 찾기 위해 페이지 기록을 재빨리 확인하는 것 뿐이었다. [67][68][69][70][71][72][73].그러한 차이점들은 명백히 내용적인 논쟁이 아니다: 그것은 대화 페이지의 혼란이다.만약 당신이 편집 전쟁 이력이 있다면, 당신은 이전에 혼란을 멈추기를 원하지 않는다는 것을 증명했고, 만약 당신이 지금 정책 위반을 강요하기 위해 편집 전쟁을 한다면, 당신은 과거로부터 배우지 않았고 말로써 멈추지 않을 것이라는 것을 증명하고 있는 것이다.이력이 있지만 이를 통해 배운 것이라면 문제될 것이 없지만, 정책 위반을 규명하기 위한 편집 전쟁은 매우 가식적이다.나이튼드 (대화) 01:45, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 임마는 앞서 가서 잠자고 말하라 (그것은 내가 의도하는 것이다) 왜냐하면 그 확산의 절반은 단지 두 사용자들 사이의 전쟁일 뿐이기 때문이다.나쁘게 생각지 마시오.내일 보자.티모시 조셉우드 02:17, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- @Nytend: 이 실을 다시 한 번 검토하고, "블록이 멀지 않다"는 위협을 철회하십시오.정말 부적절하다. --Floquenbeam (대화) 01:22, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 절대 아니다.만약 당신이 개인적인 행동에 대해 근거 없는 비난을 한다면, 당신은 특히 NPA 정책에 반하는 것이다.원하신다면 계속해서 내 판단에 의문을 제기하십시오. 그리고 나는 당신을 그것에 참여시킬 것이다(나는 동의하지 않지만, 나는 반대하지 않는다) 그러나 NPA 정책은 우리가 당신처럼 외국인 혐오자에 대해 공격을 가하는 사람들을 엄중히 단속할 것을 요구한다.나이튼드 (대화) 01:45, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 이 실에서 한 발짝 물러나야 할 것 같은데, 방어적이고 동요하는 것 같아.특히 티모시와 나를 혼동하고 있는 것 같으니까.--v/r - TP 01:49, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 미안하지만, 이 두 사람은 말을 할 줄 모르는 사람이야.그게 쟁점이다.그 중 하나를 제거한다고 문제가 해결되는 것은 아니다.미안하지만, 나는 두 사용자 모두 3RRR을 피하려고 애쓰면서도 여전히 전쟁을 피하려고 애쓰는 것으로 대화중 혼란을 정말 본다.티모시 조셉우드 01:52, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- Nyttend가 말했듯이, 이곳의 OP는 토크 페이지 헤더와 관련된 정책을 시행하려고 시도하고 있었다.편집자가 그 정책을 명백히 위반한 것으로 보이는 것을 되돌린 것에 대해 제재를 가할 관리자는 거의 없을 것이다.UltraExactZZ ~ 2016년 6월 1일 12:41, 1일 (UTC) 했음[
임의 브레이크 리: Al-Andalusi 대 Xen 정신분열증
(길이에 대한 사전 사과).
음, 여기 커피가 있어. 그러니 내 평화를 말하고 생산성으로 넘어가도록 하지.
- 외국인 정신분열증은 논쟁적인 주제들의 논쟁적인 부분에 나쁜 습관인 큰 반전을 만들었다.
- 그들은 어떤 근거나 심지어 그렇게 큰 편집에서 정확히 무엇이 바뀌었는지에 대해 이야기하러 가지 않았다.
- 그들은 아무 설명도 없이 다시 돌아섰을 때 계속해서 말을 하지 않았다.
- 알-안달루시가 대화를 하러 갔을 때, Xenalusic은 WP에 의해 긴장을 고조시킬 것을 보장하는 방식으로 대응했다.WP를 입증하기 위한 WIKILOWYERING:그들이 도덕적으로 높은 지위에 섰다는 점은 다음과 같다.
- "우측 날개"를 편집하고
- 머리글에 그들의 이름이 포함된 것에 대해 끔찍한 공격을 가하는 것은 기껏해야 공격이 아니라 순한 것이고, 내용 논쟁/편집 전쟁에 가장 관여하지 않은 것 둘 다 무시하게 될 것이다.
- 그렇지 않으면 경솔하고 거들먹거리는 말투로.
- 두 사람 모두 다음과 같은 사실에도 불구하고 알-안달루시가 부분적으로 그들의 블록 이력으로 인해 차단된, 그리고 여기 우리는 세 가지 수정안에 도달했다.
- 두 사용자 모두 워링 편집 중
- 정신분열증은 분명히 상황을 악화시키기 위해 행동하고 있었다.
- 그리고 이 중 어느 것도 Xen의 정신분열증에 의해 더 길고 더 파괴적인 역사를 고려하지 않은 것 같지 않았다.
- 편집 충돌 및 1R 위반에 대해 7회 차단됨
- 이전에 차단된 페이지의 전쟁을 편집하기 위해 돌아가기
- 최종 경고를 받고 페이지 보호로 인해 차단을 피하는 중.
- 전쟁으로 인한 또 다른 페이지 보호
- 또 다른 3RR 보고서는 명백히 무시되었다.
- 하나 이상의 오래된 3RR 보고서
- 그리고 이 시점에서 나는 단지 이 사용자가 게시판에 80번 이상 참여했던 것을 그만둘 것이다. 왜냐하면 나는 내가 요점을 짚었다고 생각하기 때문이다.
TL;DR; 결국 편집자의 행동과 파괴적인 역사 둘 다 아쉬운 점이 많지만, 현재의 블록이 이룬 유일한 것은 어쨌든 별로 해롭지 않은 정책을 질타하는 것에 대한 내용 분쟁의 승리를 한 쪽에 넘겨주고, 표면적으로 상처받은 느낌에 대해 ANI에게 처음으로 달려가는 것이다.엔그스
이제, 그 문제에 관한 논문 근처에 저주받을 만한 글을 썼다.
- 두 사용자가 강력하게 경고하고, 누군가 중재하는 대화를 제안하거나(아마 나는 지금 이 시점에서 공정하게 관여하고 있는 것이 아니었을 것이다.
- 제안 WP:부메랑은 기사나 화제에 대한 편집 전쟁을 위한 정신분열증 환자로서, 토론에 참여하기 위한 초기 전환자로서, 그리고 두두머리라고 불리는 것을 무시할 수 없는 일반적 무능에 대한 책임이 있었다.만약 이것이 누군가 그들의 교훈을 얻지 못한 문제라면, 그것은 분명히 두 편집자에게 적용된다.티모시 조셉우드 14장 44절, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 반대 두 블록 모두 관리자들의 우울함 안에 있었다.내가 여기서 보고 있는 유일한 것은 드라마의 영속화다.초기 문제는 끝났고, {{unblock}}은(는) 이유 때문에 존재하며, 차단된 편집자는 이를 활용할 수 있다.그대로 놔둬라, 내버려둬라..JbhTalk 15:09, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 둘 다 반대하다.이 구체적인 사례에서 블록은 정당화되었다.OP가 토크 페이지 헤더를 제거하는 정책 내에서 행동하고 있었기 때문에 여기에는 부메랑을 놓을 여지가 없다.당신의 우려는 드라마가 있었고, 아마도 있었을 것이라는 것이다. 하지만 우리는 드라마를 차단한 것이 아니라 편집 전쟁을 차단했다.그리고 무슨 일이 있었게?편집 전쟁이 멈췄다.끝장난 상황에 대한 외국인 정신분열증에 대한 차단?그것은 정책에 반하는 징벌적 행위일 것이다. 그리고 그것이 어떤 방식으로 그 프로젝트를 개선시킬 것인가?아니, 그것에 대한 진정한 정당성은 없어.내가 아는 바로는 알-안달루시는 그들 자신의 토크 페이지를 편집하는 것을 막지 못한다.그들은 장점에 따라 판단될 요청을 할 수 있다.그러니 차단을 해제할 근거도 없지여기선 할 일이 없어.UltraExactZZ ~ 2016년 6월 1일 15:19, 1일 (UTC) 했음[
- "편집 전쟁이 있을 때는 한쪽만 막아라"와 다른 한쪽만 막아라"는 식의 입장을 취하는 것은 좀 경솔한 것 같다.상관없어.전쟁은 끝났다."또한, WP:TALKNEW는 3RR의 예외는 아니며, 3RR 블록당 행동 변화를 장려하는 데 적절하다.하지만 분명히 그것을 문제 삼는 사람은 나밖에 없어.아, 그렇구나.티모시 조셉우드 15:38, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다면 여기서 한 블록이 제노의 행동을 변화시키거나 편집 전쟁을 이미 끝난 것보다 더 끝낼 것이라고 생각하는가?구체적으로 말해라 - 어떤 방식으로 블록이 프로젝트를 개선할 것인가?UltraExactZZ Said ~ 2016년 6월 1일 15시 55분 (UTC) 했음[
- 나는 그것이 그들의 행동을 변화시킬지 어떨지 모르겠다, 나는 그렇게 희망해야 한다.사용자들은 전쟁을 편집하지 않는 법을 배운 것이 아니라, 그저 전쟁에 대해 더 잘 알고 있을 뿐이다.그들은 정책과 지침을 따르는 법을 배운 것이 아니라, 그들에게 유리하게 사용하는 법을 배웠다.전송되는 메시지는 크고 명확하다.
- "다른 편집자와 콘텐츠 분쟁이 있다면 대화로 해결하려고 시간을 낭비하지 마십시오.대신, 거의 적용되지 않는 불명확한 정책을 사용하여 그들을 편집 전쟁으로 유인하도록 하라.하지만, ANI에서의 첫 번째 근무는 확실히 해둬라. 만약 당신이 OP라면 그들은 문맥이나 당신 자신의 역사에 너무 깊이 관여하지 않을 수도 있기 때문이다.일단 그것들이 사라지면, 짜잔, 네가 어떻게 행동했든 간에 아무도 너에게 아무것도 해줄 수 없어. 왜냐하면 편집 전쟁은 끝났고, 아무도 WP를 이해하는 것 같지 않거든.블록체결렌트."
- "아이들을 기억하라, 만일 법의 정신이 정말로 편지보다 더 중요하다면, 그들은 그것을 적어 놓았을 것이다."티모시 조셉우드 18장 17절, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[하라
- 그렇다면 여기서 한 블록이 제노의 행동을 변화시키거나 편집 전쟁을 이미 끝난 것보다 더 끝낼 것이라고 생각하는가?구체적으로 말해라 - 어떤 방식으로 블록이 프로젝트를 개선할 것인가?UltraExactZZ Said ~ 2016년 6월 1일 15시 55분 (UTC) 했음[
- "편집 전쟁이 있을 때는 한쪽만 막아라"와 다른 한쪽만 막아라"는 식의 입장을 취하는 것은 좀 경솔한 것 같다.상관없어.전쟁은 끝났다."또한, WP:TALKNEW는 3RR의 예외는 아니며, 3RR 블록당 행동 변화를 장려하는 데 적절하다.하지만 분명히 그것을 문제 삼는 사람은 나밖에 없어.아, 그렇구나.티모시 조셉우드 15:38, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 둘 다 반대(비관리자 의견) 행정관은 재량권을 사용했다.재량권이 존재하는 데는 이유가 있고, 차단 행정관은 내가 동의하는 선택을 했다.미개한 논평은 아마도 차단 관리자가 차단을 발행하도록 이끈 요인일 것이다.그리고 지금 다른 편집자를 차단하는 것은 위키피디아의 차단 정책 블록을 위반하는 것이 아니라 공동체를 보호하기 위해 존재하는 것이다. --Cameron11598 17:13, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 티모시 조셉 우드의 긴 게시물들은 요점을 놓친다. OP의 첫 번째 차이점은 이것이었다. 그리고 그것은 한 편집자가 기사 토크 페이지를 잘못 사용하는 것을 보여준다.이것은 가장 위대한 위키리스크가 아니라, 토크 페이지 제목이 내용 주제를 다루어야 하며, 명명된 편집자가 나쁜 일을 하고 있다고 주장해서는 안 된다.더욱이 기사토크 페이지는 지명된 편집자가 잘못된 편집요약이나 "미흡한 족제비 단어"를 사용했다고 주장하거나 우익 활동가라고 주장하는 곳이 아니다.지나치게 흥분하고 정보가 부족하면 누군가가 게시할 수도 있지만, ANI에서 유일하게 합리적인 반응은 알-안달루시의 발언이 매우 부적절했다는 것이다.조누니크 (대화) 03:13, 2016년 6월 2일 (UTC)[
편집자가 이미지를 작업하지 않을 때 자신의 작업으로 계속 업로드
저작권이 있는 이미지를 자신의 것으로 업로드한 것으로 ([74],[75],[76]) 이전에 경고를 받은 적이 있는 편집자 안드리아9703(토크 · 기여 · 로그)이 걱정된다.지난 며칠 동안 그녀는 파일:Hanna.jpg.png(Getty Images[77]에서 인증됨)는 물론, 다른 여러 이미지(필수적으로 저작권이 있는 것은 아님)도 자신의 이미지와 동일하다.나는 트위터에서 스크린샷과 이미지 업로드에 관한 규칙을 모르지만, 적어도 이 모든 것에 대한 라이센싱은 잘못된 것이다.그것들은 그녀 자신의 일이 아니다.파일:Emily.jpg.png(실제 소스 [78]), 파일:Nik.jpg.png(실제 소스 [79]), 파일:Riley.jpg.png(소스 [80]), 파일:Hhanna.jpg.png ([81]부터), 파일:Johanna.jpg.png(출처?), 파일:Roger.jpg.png(출처?), 파일:RM.jpg.png(소스?), 파일:Freya.jpg.png (출처?) . 이것에 대해 어떻게 해야 할지 잘 모르겠지만, 누군가의 주목을 받고 싶었다.만약 내가 잘못된 곳에 있다면 사과할게.고마워. --논리적 퍼즈 (대화) 08:17, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 이러한 저작권 위반은 모두 삭제해야 한다.블랙매인 (대화) 08:19, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그들 중 몇몇이 공유지에 지명되었다는 것에 주목한다.@Andreea9703: 이에 대한 충분한 설명을 하는 것이 좋다. 그렇지 않으면 저작권 위반으로 인해 즉시 무기한 차단되어야 한다.블랙매인 (대화) 08:23, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- CSD의 애매한 허가 근거는 아닌가?08:26, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 미안 F9죽음에 한해 의무종료(토크) 08:28, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- F3?08Pocketed:48, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 그들의 내용 편집도 적어도 1월 이전까지는 문제가 있었다.이전에 이미 차단된 적이 있지만 안타깝게도 개선 효과가 없는 것은 분명하다. -- -- Ebyabe - Border Town ‖ 08:30, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 미안 F9죽음에 한해 의무종료(토크) 08:28, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- CSD의 애매한 허가 근거는 아닌가?08:26, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그들 중 몇몇이 공유지에 지명되었다는 것에 주목한다.@Andreea9703: 이에 대한 충분한 설명을 하는 것이 좋다. 그렇지 않으면 저작권 위반으로 인해 즉시 무기한 차단되어야 한다.블랙매인 (대화) 08:23, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
자들라
(AN에서 이동됨)BMK (대화) 14:19, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)
나는 좋은 공식 참고자료로 내용을 추가했다.그러나 복수의 IP가 약해졌고, 모두 참조가 없는 이전 콘텐츠를 다시 추가하는 동일한 편집을 수행했으며, 콘텐츠의 대부분은 WP이다.OR 및 WP:참조되지 않았으며 WP의 위키 규칙도 충족하지 않음:NOTDIR. 차이점은 편집1, 편집2, 편집3, 편집4, 편집5, 편집6, 편집7이다.매번 다른 IP를 사용하였다.--Vin09 (토크) 11:58, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
- 참고 그러나 10번 이상 편집하지 않고 5시간 후. 14Pocketed:24, 2016년 6월 1일(UTC)[
IP별 사용자 토크 페이지 파괴 행위 및 불충분한 보호 및 차단
- Widr (토크 · 기여)
- 79.74.40.10(토크 · 기여)
- 79.74.58.1987 (토크 · 기여)
2016년 4월 4일부터 한 IP가 내 토크 페이지에서 인신공격하고 있다.내가 그들을 되돌리면, 그는 그들을 다시 일으켜 세운다.내 페이지는 여기서[83], 여기서[84], 여기서[85] 보호되었다.내 토크 페이지에서는 NPA에 대한 IP가 세 번 차단되었다[86].세 번째 블록은 한 달 동안 있었지만 그는 그 블록이 끝나기 전에 다른 장소로 뛰어갔다.위드르 행정관은 IP 위반이 한 달 동안 차단되어 블록을 위반했음에도 불구하고 오늘을 단 3일[87] 동안만 차단했다.
나는 무기한 페이지 보호를 요청했지만 거절을 받았고 그것이 내가 여기 있는 이유다.블록과 일시적 보호는 가치가 없는 것으로 나타났으며, 해가 뜨는 만큼 3일 후면 IP가 돌아올 것이다.오늘 3일 블록은 IP가 한 달 동안 차단되어 정확히 같은 행동을 한다는 점에서 나쁜 농담이었다....윌리엄, 진정 고소부가 지붕에 있는 거야?2016년 6월 1일(UTC) 15:00[
- 우리는 보통 사용자 대화 페이지를 며칠 이상 보호하지는 않지만, 장기간 악용될 경우, 확인되지 않은 편집자들이 여전히 여러분과 소통할 수 있도록 보호되지 않은 대화 하위 페이지를 만들면서 더 오랫동안 보호할 수 있다.당신은 그 페이지에서 알림을 받지 못할 것이다.하고 싶으면 한 줄 적어줘. --말콤xl5 (대화) 16:35, 2016년 6월 1일 (UTC)[
IP 점퍼를 통한 중단 없는 편집
- 174.29.69.250 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 70.212.34.16 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 70.208.1.73 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 70.212.48.217 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 174.29.1.56 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 174.29.184.198 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
더 있지만 가장 최근 것이다.
편집자는 여러 개의 BLP를 포함한 수많은 기사에 대한 파괴적인 편집 패턴을 계속 유지하고 있다.The most frequent targets include, among many others, Jack Albertson (this one in particular), Idina Menzel, Irene Bedard, Evelyn Venable, Judith Barsi, Christine Cavanaugh, Miriam Margolyes, Susan Backlinie, Heather O'Rourke, Brittany Byrnes, Murder of Riley Ann Sawyers, and Suicide of Kelly Yeomans.패턴에는 다음이 포함된다.
- 추가 "사망 원인...인포박스에 대한 [사망/사망]": 1, 2, 3
- infobox의 "Resting Place"에 "Cremated" 추가: 1, 2, 3
- 아이를 낳아 "그녀"로 바꾼 부모: 1, 2, 3
- 반대로, "태어나는 ...을 [그]의 임신 중인 부모에게"를 추가하는 것: 1, 2, 3
- 기타 비임시성 요일의 추가: 1, 2, 3
이것은 표면을 거의 긁지 않는다; 대부분의 그러한 편집은 각 IP에서 반복적으로 이루어졌다.또한 반복적으로 행해졌다: infobox에 non-notable 친척의 추가, BLP에 대한 비협조적인 데이터 추가, infobox에 있는 "notable works"의 세탁 목록 등 (편집: 한편, 이런 패턴이 계속됨에 따라, 나는 이 사람이 말로 돈을 받는다고 맹세할 것이다."[죽음_원인 =] 자해 총상을 입은 후 총격을 가해 자살하는 것"?정말?)
이 사람은 이전의 보고서에 대해 전적으로 책임이 있지는 않다.
70.212.34.16은 5월 24일 현재 2주 동안 가장 최근에 차단되었다.나는 이들 IP 각각에 3개월의 블록을 요청하고 있으며, 앞으로 더 많은 블록이 올 수 있을 것이다.🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage 01:42, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 이 IP-hopper는 조회, 논평 또는 비난에 응답하지 않지만, 동일한 유형의 편집으로 계속된다.IPs 뒤에 있는 편집자가 계정을 가지고 있다면, 변명은 선을 벗어나지 않을 것이다.BMK (대화) 04:19, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
참고:70.212.34.16(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)은 @Cofee에 의해 차단되었다.2016년 5월 23일 (미소급 콘텐츠 영구 추가)" --Cameron11598(Talk) 05:56, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)
- 내가 위에서 언급했듯이.고마워. ★ATinySliver/ATalkPage07:13, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)
- 위키백과를 참조하십시오.관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive922#잠재적으로 연결된 IP 편집기위의 IP 주소는 또한 5월 초에 ANI에 주목하게 된 기사에 대해서도 유사한 편집을 했다.무선 통신사의 IP를 여러 개 사용하는 장기 패턴이다.알데즈D (대화) 12시 12분, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 위에서 링크한 그 보고서에 대한 너의 노고에 감사한다.생각해봤으면 ping 했겠지, 미안해. ★ATinySliver/ATalkPage20:20,2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과를 참조하십시오.관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive922#잠재적으로 연결된 IP 편집기위의 IP 주소는 또한 5월 초에 ANI에 주목하게 된 기사에 대해서도 유사한 편집을 했다.무선 통신사의 IP를 여러 개 사용하는 장기 패턴이다.알데즈D (대화) 12시 12분, 2016년 5월 30일 (UTC)[
관리인: 우리가 이것에 대해 조치를 취할 수 있을까?백과사전의 혼란은 계속되고 있다.🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage20:33, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 보고서 고마워, ATinySliver.개별적으로는 일부 편집이 별난 것처럼 보이지만, 편집의 패턴은 때때로 파괴적이고 기괴하다.나는 요청대로 차단했다.나는 그들이 새로운 IP에 접속할 것이라고 확신해, 그래서 우리는 가장 일반적인 표적 기사를 반비례해야 할지도 모른다.펜스&윈도우 23:12, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 핑, ATinySliver.펜스&윈도우 23:13, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 고맙네, F&W.사용자의 편집 중 일부는 완벽하게 허용 가능한 반면, 다른 일부 편집은 허용 가능한 것으로 보이는 일부는 BLP에 비협조적인 데이터를 도입할 것이다.당신이 주목하듯이, 표준은 "파괴적이고 기괴한" 행동이다.이 사용자가 다시 깡충깡충 뛰면, 그리고 그럴 것이다. 그런 블록들이 틀림없이 더 필요할 것이다.🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage23:37, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
- 그는 벌써 돌아왔다.F&W. 🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage00:14, 2016년 6월 2일(UTC)[하라
- 고맙네, F&W.사용자의 편집 중 일부는 완벽하게 허용 가능한 반면, 다른 일부 편집은 허용 가능한 것으로 보이는 일부는 BLP에 비협조적인 데이터를 도입할 것이다.당신이 주목하듯이, 표준은 "파괴적이고 기괴한" 행동이다.이 사용자가 다시 깡충깡충 뛰면, 그리고 그럴 것이다. 그런 블록들이 틀림없이 더 필요할 것이다.🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage23:37, 2016년 5월 31일 (UTC)[
User:Ihardly thinkso and User:후각적이야 말로 미개하다.생선 및 사용자 대화:에피펠라틱
| 우리가 이 문제를 다루기 전에 누군가 AN3의 근본적인 문제를 먼저 해결하도록 하라.공식적으로, "당신은 편집-전쟁 중이다"는 "편집 전사!!"와 같지 않다.드레이미스 (토크) 14:31, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
좋아, 우선 이 일의 배경을 말씀드리자면나는 피쉬에서 에피플라기가 MOS에 어긋난다고 거짓으로 생각했기 때문에 되돌린 콤마 조정(직렬 콤마 추가)을 하고 계속 나에게 "잘못됐다"고 말했다.나는 MOS에서 그것들이 괜찮다고 말하는 것을 확인했지만, 기사를 통해 그것에 대해 일관성을 유지해라.그래서 나는 그에게 그곳에는 많은 연속적인 쉼표가 있다는 것을 보여 주었고 나는 그 기사를 일관적으로 만들기 위해 다른 몇 개의 쉼터를 배치했다.하지만 그 다음엔 그가 그들에게 다시 편집 경고를 했고 나는 그의 토크 페이지에 그것에 대해 경고를 했고, 그 다음엔 그가 다시 그들에게 다시 경고했고, 나에게 그것에 대해 토크 페이지에 쓰라고 말했다.음, 이것에 대한 내 보고서는 여기 3RR의 적절한 위치에 있어. 그러니 거기서 봐.여기 있는 것은 단지 관련된 다른 사용자들에 대한 배경일 뿐이야, Iholly thinkso.자, 이제 시작합시다.
While making those comma-related edits and a few others, I made the supposed mistake (according to Ihardlythinkso, but I don't see any reason yet to dispute it) of changing links at Fish from the simple-pluralism-outside format ("[[example]]s") to the fully-a.k.a. format [[example examples]]"), and then he/she reverted one of them, telling me that그것은 WP가 추천한 형식에 어긋났다.알았어, 알았어.그런데 왜 단 한 명만 되돌아갔을까?그럼, 나머지는 내가 다시 고쳐주면서 좋은 사람이 되게 해줘.좋아, 그래서 그렇게 했어.하지만 편집 요약과 대화 페이지에서 잘 하고 그 뒷부분(그리고 내가 잡은 다른 몇 개 포함)을 고친다는 이유로 무엇을 얻을 수 있을까?오 안돼, 중립도 아니고, 확실히 칭찬도 없어.대신에, 나는 아마도 "잘못 쓰고" "실패한" 것으로 인해 비난을 받는다.하지만 그들이 원하는 대로 물건을 되돌려 놓는 것이 어떻게 그렇게 "무중단"이 되는가?뭐? 못 정하겠어?맙소사, 그들의 문제가 뭐야?
그래서 여기 이강렬하게 생각하는 소와 에피펠라릭에 의한 무능함이 있다.
1. 에피플랙틱은 자신의 편집 요약에서 나의 경고를 거짓으로 "트롤링"이라고 부른다.내가 IP 모드에 있을 때 경고를 받은 것과 같은 방법으로, 만일 그것이 그가 하고 있던 것이라면, 편집-경고 경고 "트롤링"을 하는 것은 어떻게 되는가?
2. 나도 그렇게 생각해.
3. 그리고 나서 ihardly think so는 또한 나를 "놀라움"이라고 불렀고 Talk에 "jerk"라고 불렀다.여기 피쉬: [89] 그저 경각심을 보도하고 토크 페이지에 있는 그에게 기사 내용을 MOS가 말하는 것처럼 일관하게 만든 나의 변화를 되돌리지 말라고 부탁한 것에 대한 이유!그리고 나서 내 글을 "멍청이"라고 불러.좋아, 그럼 위선자가 된 거군 내가 아니었는데도 나한테 그런 모욕적인 말을 한 거잖아
4. Epipelagic은 다시 나의 편집 내용을 되돌리며, WP를 읽으라는 말로 내가 "무능하다"는 것을 암시한다.무능.
그러니 내가 옳은 일을 하고 있었음에도 불구하고 나에게 그렇게 무례한 짓을 한 이 녀석들에게 너는 어떻게 할 것인가?잠깐 둘 다 막아볼래?
튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 12:51, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 제안 이 서류는 즉시 종결된다; 명백한 내용 분쟁(Too Small a Fish to Fry: 튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기는 분명히 WP:포룸쇼핑. 13Pocketed:01, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
포럼 쇼핑이 아니다.한 보고서, 이 보고서는 비활용성을 위한 것이고, 다른 보고서는 편집-전쟁을 위한 것이다.한 명의 사용자는 아직 편집 워링 없이 무례하게 행동하고 있었다.튀기기에 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 13:06, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
나는 이미 epi에게 그 보고서 양식에 내가 사용해야 한다고 쓰여 있는 편집-워링 경고를 사용하라고 통보했다."diff"는 이미 거기에 있다.만약 내가 그렇게 열심히 알리지 못했다면, 나는 그것에 대해 미안하고 가능한 한 빨리 그것을 바로잡으려고 노력할 것이다.그러나 '두 갈래'의 공격도 아니다.에피는 정말로 전쟁을 편집하고 비도덕성을 사용했지만, 나는 그렇게 생각하지 않는다.튀기기에 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 13:25, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
나는 열심히 생각하여 소의 토크 페이지에 가서 장군이 이미 경고까지 나를 이긴 것을 보았다.나는 그가 나를 이겼다고 말함으로써 그의 노력을 인정했다.그래서 나는 우리가 성가신 통지가 있는 한 우리가 있어야 할 곳에 있다고 생각한다.튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 13:52, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 혹시 뭔가...여기서 에피펠라릭을 말하는 방식이 미개한가?"FYI, 편집-워리어...뭐, 전사여... 정중히 부탁하네, 편집-워리어..."[90] 당신은 또한 그가 무지하다고 진술한다.그건 별로 예의 바르지 않지, 그렇지?또한, "Wanna가 잠시 둘 다 막았느냐?"고 묻는 방식으로는 여기서 어떤 포인트도 얻을 수 없을 것 같다.Doc talk 13:52, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 안 돼! 왜냐하면 사람들은 항상 다른 사람들에게 그들이 편집 전쟁 중이거나 편집 전쟁 중이라고 말하기 때문이야.내가 막 IP 모드에 있을 때 많은 관리자가 정확히 그렇게 하는 것을 본 적이 있다.나는 다른 일을 한 적이 없다.그리고 차단에 관해서, 그렇다면 어떤 콜 투 액션은 아마도 "좋다"라고 생각되는가?다른 사람들이 불친절하다고 블록을 요청할 수 있고 괜찮다면, 왜 내가 같은 일을 할 수 있지 않을까?위키피디아가 가장 좋아하는 약점은 왜 모순인가?튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 13:55, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 물론 네 말이 맞아. 사람들은 항상 그렇게 해.하지만 그들은 같은 일에 마음을 열고 있다면 (어쨌든 한 번 이상) 하지 않는 경향이 있다...WP를 읽어 본 적이 있는가?부메랑?너는 해야 한다; 그것은 즐거운 작품이다.Muffled Pocketed 14:04, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- "wanna block them"에 대한 컨텍스트의 경우, 사용자:Ihardlythinkso 너무 소형은 그 토론 동안("당신의 완전히 군사 기지 밖의 및에 내 의견은 포함한 관리 s/ 블록, 고함치다 모욕적인"), 즉시 기여"절대 낙태",고, 너무 소규모의(꽤 예의 바른)반응에 그들은 sa"얼간이"를 호출하여 대응하고 전화하기 전에 그 생각은 무례함이 있는 차단 범죄로 접어드는 듯하다.ys"미친 짓이야"실망한 새 편집자가 다음에 무슨 일을 할지, 여기선 돈을 걸었을 것이다. --맥게든 (대화) 14:20, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 안 돼! 왜냐하면 사람들은 항상 다른 사람들에게 그들이 편집 전쟁 중이거나 편집 전쟁 중이라고 말하기 때문이야.내가 막 IP 모드에 있을 때 많은 관리자가 정확히 그렇게 하는 것을 본 적이 있다.나는 다른 일을 한 적이 없다.그리고 차단에 관해서, 그렇다면 어떤 콜 투 액션은 아마도 "좋다"라고 생각되는가?다른 사람들이 불친절하다고 블록을 요청할 수 있고 괜찮다면, 왜 내가 같은 일을 할 수 있지 않을까?위키피디아가 가장 좋아하는 약점은 왜 모순인가?튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 13:55, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
음, 이런 얘기는 처음 들어보는 거야(기억하기도 하지만, 나는 오랫동안 IP 모드에 있었다.그렇다면 왜 ADMINS조차 표준 위키 용어지만, 아기 편집자는 어떤 단어를 대신 사용해야 하는가?튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 14:09, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 스몰 피쉬가 AN3에서 이것이나 실을 닫을 것을 제안할 겁니다.같은 군중들이 두 판에 같은 이야기를 하고 있다.티모시 조셉우드 14:10, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 또한 계속하여 이것이 내가 한동안 보아온 분쟁의 가장 멍청한 이유 중 하나라고 지적할 것이다.[[WP:Trout]s = WP:트라우트...[[WP:Trout WP:Trouts]] = WP:헛소리야 왜 이렇게 화를 낼 만하지?티모시 조셉우드 14:18, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- (e/c) 같은 (부메랑) 가능성을 막 언급하려던 참이었다.사용자:Too Small a Fish to Frie 나는 누군가가 부메랑을 발사하기 전에 이 통지를 철회할 것을 강력히 촉구한다(내가 아니라 어떤 사람들은 이것을 즐기는 것이다).귀하는 이 통지를 부조리에 기초하여 시작하셨습니다.Epipelagic이 Incivil이라는 증거는 전혀 없다.Iholly thinkso는 내가 사용하지 않았을 몇몇 선택 단어들을 사용했지만, ANI를 시작하기 전에 당신은 이런 종류의 행동의 패턴을 확립할 필요가 있다.너는 뭔가 또는 누군가에게 매우 화가 난 것 같다.당신을 더 화나게 할 부메랑이 발행되기 전에 이 통지를 철회하십시오.닥터크리시 14:14, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 엄밀히 말하자면, 소는 비위생적이고 에피펠라틱이 널 트롤이라고 부른다면 넌 아마 트롤일 거야.WP가 작성하기 전에 이 보고서를 철회하십시오.부메랑. 172.56.28.84 (토크) 14:16, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 여기 아주 작은 프라이팬이 있는 사람 있어? 2016년 6월 3일 14시Pocketed 24분(UTC)
HAR, HARRR...튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 14:28, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
음, 닥터크리시, 그럼 어떻게 해야하지? 만약 내가 한 사람을 전쟁판에서 불친절하다고 보고한게 부정직해 보인다면, 그가 비록 무례했음에도 불구하고 기사에서 나와 싸운게 아니라는걸 인정해야 하기 때문이고, 만약 내가 여기 일반 사건 게시판에서 편집 전쟁을 위해 누군가를 보고하는 순간, 다른 사람이 내게 그 말을 할거야.그 대신 전쟁판에 갈까?
아, 172.56.28.84?어떻게 특별 특권을 얻으려고 그렇게 생각하시죠?그리고 내가 IP주소일 때 내가 2-3번만 번복한 후 다른 사람들이 내 페이지에 똑같은 종류의 경고를 내 페이지에 올렸을 때, 왜 내가 그런 경고를 할 자격이 있는 사람의 페이지에 경고하는 "트롤"로 간주되어야 하는가?튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 14:28, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
아, 맞다, 누가 내 질문에 대답하기도 전에 이걸 닫자."좋소."편집 작업이 해결된 후 다시 여십시오.게다가, ADMINS조차 "편집-워리어"를 사용했고 그것에 대해 문제를 일으키지 않았다.왜 그들이 도착해야 하는가?그리고 왜 누군가에게 자신이 무언가를 하는 것이라고 말하는 것이 그들이 그런 일을 하고 있다고 말하는 것과 전혀 다르다고 생각하는가?튀기기에는 너무 작은 물고기 (토크) 15:21, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
법적 위협과 양말 인형극
| (비관리자 폐쇄) 계정과 IP 모두 Mike V에 의해 1개월 동안 차단됨.Vensco (T / C) 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC) 18:30[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
그들의 편집요약을 통해 하퍼9979(토크·기여)는 나와 위키백과 재단이 110.171.182.13(토크·기여·WHOIS)으로 로그인하고 로그아웃하는 법적 위협을 하고 있다.사이드노트로, 계정과 IP 모두 과거에 양말 인형뽑기 때문에 차단된 적이 있다.이 동작은 초기/원래 블록 직후에 지속되는 것으로 보인다.Vensco (T / C) 17:56, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 디프피를 제공할 수 있는가? --Cameron11598 18:07, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
110 이외에도 내가 알고 있는 User:49.237.135.240과 User:49.237.143.63이 있다.110.171.182.13 -- GreenC 18:13, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[] 양말 블록의 역사가 있다
사용자:AcidRock67
| 관리종료 - 비쇼넨에 의해 차단됨. -- Eurialus (대화) 13:09, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
AcidRock67은 Aldous Huxley와 Timothy Leary에서 오랜 시간 동안 파열 편집의 역사를 가지고 있다.AcidRock67은 Bishonen에 의해 두 번 막혔고, 두 번째 블록은 2주 동안 계속되었다.AcidRock67은 이제 Aldous Huxley와 Timothy Leary에서 같은 파괴적인 편집을 계속하기 위해 그의 가장 최근의 블록에서 돌아왔다.이전 기사에서 AcidRock67은 헉슬리의 점령이 '철학자'라는 주장을 복원했는데, 이는 토크 페이지 컨센서스가 뒷받침하지 않는 미인증 주장이다.Acid Rock67은 Johnuniq에 의해 역전되었다. 그리고 나서 그는 Johnuniq를 차례대로, 그리고 설명없이 역전시켰다.나는 AcidRock67을 되돌렸고, AcidRock67도 역시 설명없이 나를 되돌렸다.그것은 티모시 리어리의 거의 같은 이야기다: AcidRock67은 리리가 이전에 여러 번 삭제되었음에도 불구하고 이 기사에 철학자였다는 주장을 재독했다.Johnuniq는 클레임을 없앴고, AcidRock67은 Johnuniq를 역전시켰고, 나는 AcidRock67을 역전시켰고, AcidRock67은 나를 역전시켰다.AcidRock67은 Leary를 철학자로 낙인찍는 것에 반대하는 의견 수렴에 도달한 토크 페이지에 대한 코멘트를 요청했음에도 불구하고 이러한 방식으로 행동하고 있다는 점에 유의하십시오.위키피디아는 언제까지 그런 행동을 할 것인가?AcidRock67은 편집전쟁에 대해 충분한 횟수를 경고받았지만, 그는 여러 사용자와의 전쟁을 계속 편집하고 있으며, 여러 기사에서, 과거에 편집에 지장을 받았음에도 불구하고 편집에 지장을 받고 있다.나는 AcidRock67이 또 다른 장시간의 블록을 받을 것을 제안한다. 만약 그가 이후에도 계속해서 교란적으로 편집한다면 무기한 블록의 가능성이 있다.AcidRock67이 Aldous Huxley와 Timothy Leary에서 끝없이 되돌아오는 것 외에는 위키피디아에서 많은 것을 할 수 없다면, 궁극적인 무기한 블록 외에는 할 수 있는 일이 거의 없을지도 모른다.그를 헉슬리와 리리 기사에서 제외시키는 것이 선택사항일 수도 있지만, 그의 비협조적인 태도에 비춰볼 때 효과적일지는 잘 모르겠다.FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 03:31, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 무한정 차단됨.그들은 단지 2주간의 블록을 기다린 후 즉시 기사들의 편집 전쟁을 재개했고, 여전히 토크 페이지는 건드리지 않는 것으로 보인다.나는 그런 패턴 이후 더 이상 제한된 블록으로 빈둥거리지 않을 것이다; 만약 사용자가 접근 방식을 변경하기 위해 블록 해제 요청을 쓴다면, 나는 블록 해제로도 괜찮을 것이다.비쇼넨톡 09:41, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)
잘못된 AfD 닫기 시도(기사 작성자)
| (관리자 이외의 폐쇄)해당 이용자는 최종 경고 이후에도 파손되지 않았다.그러한 경우 WP에 보고하십시오.AIV. Vensco (T / C) 03:45, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
위키피디아에서 최근 편집한 내용을 조사하십시오.삭제/Munik Nunes 관련 기사(토크 히스토리 링크 감시 로그 편집) 및 관련 기사.이것이 나쁜 믿음인지 아니면 무지/혼란인지 구별하기 어렵다.giso6150 (대화) 02:57, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- I've removed the templates seeing as the AFD isn't an image file,
I'd say just them write what they want within reason (or revert if necessary) and just let the AFD go on, They'e not done anything that warrants banning and protecting the AFD would be harmful to IPs who actually have legit concerns,–Davey2010Talk 03:03, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
사용자:헤벨
| 콘텐츠 분쟁: 인증자의 주의 필요 없음.대화 페이지로 이동하십시오.IP는 또한 WP:3RR. (비관리자 폐쇄) 16Pocketed:53, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[]에 근접함을 주목해야 한다 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕, 헝가리의 왕국 페이지의 경우, 헤벨이라는 이름의 편집자가 페이지에서 내가 개선한 편집을 계속 변경하고 있어.헝가리의 왕국에 관한 페이지에서 나는 폴란드어를 "다른 언어로 말함" 섹션에 추가했다.헝가리 왕국이 오늘날의 폴란드를 취재한 지역.왕국이 다룬 다른 모든 영역에는 각각의 언어가 나열되어 있다.이 사용자는 기사를 읽을 때 폴란드와 헝가리의 연결고리를 보여주는 사실에도 불구하고 언어 부분에서 폴란드어를 계속 삭제한다.그는 나에게 다른 어떤 언어에도 출처가 없을 때 내 편집의 출처를 알려달라고 말한다.그가 내 편집을 다시 한번 취소하지 못하게 누가 좀 도와주시겠습니까?감사합니다 — 69.119.175.240 (대화) 16:35, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[이 서명되지 않은 앞선 댓글
- 이 페이지에서 다른 사용자에 대한 토론을 시작할 때는 반드시 해당 사용자에게 대화 페이지에 알리십시오.나는 이제 너를 위해 그렇게 했다[91].shoy(reactions) 16:47, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[하라
이 편집자는 무슨 일이니?이상한 활동..
| 여기선 문제 없어. IP는 RC 순찰만 하고 있어.나도 계정을 만들 것을 추천한다. (비관리자 폐쇄) GABgab 21:15, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2602:306:3357:BA0:D9DE:B7A4:E655:796D68.48.241.158 (토크)20:43, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그 IP는 공공 기물 파손과 비협조적인 내용을 되돌리고 그들의 토크 페이지에 그들에게 경고하고 있는데, 나 역시 그렇다.:) KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 20:56, 2016년 6월 3일 (UTC)[
백인 남성 내각의 대통령이라는 검증 가능한 사실을 기사에서 삭제해야 하는가, 말아야 하는가?
| 관리자는 콘텐츠 분쟁에서 특별한 권한이 없다.그런 만큼 이곳은 콘텐츠 분쟁을 해결할 곳이 아니다.기사의 토크 페이지나 분쟁 해결 안내판이 더 좋은 곳이다.HighInBC 16:13, 2016년 6월 5일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
기본적으로 시카고 트리뷴, 워싱턴포스트, 가디언, 뉴욕타임스, BBC, 로이터, 포브스, 런던 인디펜던트 등은 미셸 테메르의 내각과 관련하여 "세계에서 가장 인종적으로 다양한 국가들 중 하나를 운영하기 위해 남성적이고 눈에 띄게 하얀색 내각을 만들었다"고 발표했다.이들은 테메르가 '국민 구세주의' 정부를 외치며 브라질 국민의 신뢰를 요청했다고 전했다.그는 "브라질에서 신뢰를 회복하고 부패 척결에 대한 자신의 의지를 보여주기 위해" 내각을 만들었다.마지막으로, 그들은 "루세프 여사는 내각이 남성적이고 백인이라고 공격했다"고 발표했다.
위에서 말한 정보는 모두 삭제되었는데, Xuxo가 독자들에게 "테머가 '국가 구원의 정부'를 요청하고 브라질 국민의 신뢰를 요청했다"고 말한 부분을 빼면 모두 삭제되었다.나는 살아있는 사람들의 전기, 중립적인 관점의 중요성을 설명하고 사용된 출처가 검증가능성 신뢰할 수 있는 출처라는 것을 보여 주는 작업을 하지 못했다.나는 Xuxo가 What Wikipedia가 아닌 것을 안다고 생각하지 않는다.제발, 우리가 분쟁을 해결하는 것을 도와줘.나는 우리가 피할 수 있다면 관리자에게 사용자를 차단하라고 강요당하고 싶지 않다.고마워요.닥터루Talk to me 00:18, 2016년 6월 5일 (UTC)[
- 우선, 우리는 이것이 올바른 장소가 아니므로 분쟁 해결 안내 게시판으로 옮겨야 한다.이제, 당신이 Michel Temer에만 초점을 맞추도록 되어 있는 기사에 덧붙인 것은 그가 "전 남자, 눈에 띄게 하얀" 사람들을 임명했다는 것이다.자, 이 인용구는 The Guardian에서 나온 것인데, 그의 직원들은 Hugo Charvez와 남아메리카의 좌파를 사랑했다.They also POV push Rousseff so much in this article about how "Dilma Rousseff, the country’s first female president ... was stripped of her powers" and that Temer "was accused of treachery by his former running mate Rousseff, who claimed she was forced out of office by 'sabotage', 'open conspiracy' and a 'coup'", while Temer's cabinet is described이와 같이 "테마와 그의 내각도 부패혐의로 얼룩져 있다.임시대통령 자신이 탄핵 도전에 직면해 있으며 선거법 위반으로 인해 8년 동안 공직에 입후보할 수 없게 되었다고 말했다.그래서, 하얀색 캐비닛에 대한 이 인용문은 나를 괴롭히는 것이다. 그들의 피부가 어떤 색인지는 중요하지 않다.그러나, 내가 생각하기에 더 적합하다고 생각하는 것은 부패 혐의를 두는 것이다.그것들은 꽤 흥미롭다.나도 곧 추가할 수 있어, 그냥 사람들의 피부색에 가까이 가지 말자.--ZiaLater (토크) 01:30, 2016년 6월 5일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 생각이야!'아파르트헤이트' 기사부터 시작해서 '사람 피부색깔에서 그냥 떨어져 있는 게 어때?아니면 나치 독일에서 온 '유스'라는 말?닥터루Talk to me 01:56, 2016년 6월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그건 그렇고, 네가 틀렸어!가디언 뿐만이 아니라 몇몇 기관들이 이 팩트, 이 리얼리티를 발표했다.예를 들어 NY타임스는 "테머가 취임 후 브라질 주요 도시에서 매일 시위를 벌이고 있다. 예술가, 지식인, 온건파 정치인들은 호세프의 탄핵에 대한 반대뿐만 아니라 테메르가 보다 보수적인 정책을 시행하려는 백인 남성내각을 모두 임명한 것에 대해서도 그의 대통령직을 거부했다.현실을 숨기려는 네 시도는 효과가 없을 거야!이것은 위키백과 입니다.미안! 닥터루 02:08Talk to me, 2016년 6월 5일 (UTC)[하라
편집자에게 내 게시물이 마음에 안 든다고 해서 다른 편집자 페이지에서 내 게시물을 삭제하지 말라고 조언해 줘.
| 드라마 외에는 아무것도 만들어낼 것 같지 않은 폐막.OP에게 : ANI에서 여러분(그리고 다른 누구라도)이 이와 같은 문제를 제기하는 것을 매우 환영하지만, 이 경우 여기에서는 관리 도구를 필요로 하는 것이 없고 하이인BC의 행동에 부적절한 것도 없다.순순히, 약간의 선의도 이런 종류의 분쟁을 해결하는 길로 간다. -- 에우리알로스 (대화) 16:04, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
하이인BC는 (편집자에게 묻지 않고) 다른 사용자의 토크페이지에 대한 나의 의견을 모두 삭제했고, 자신의 의견을 남겼다...그는 내 논평 중 하나에 비판적인 의견을 남겼지만, 그의 비판에 비판적인 나의 논평은 삭제했다. 그것은 또한 시간 스탬프가 찍혔을 때 논평의 흐름을 방해했다.그는 다른 사람의 허락 없이 다른 사람의 대화 페이지를 검열하고 있다...(주: 만약 그 사람이 나에게 그들의 페이지에 게시하는 것을 그만 두라고 한다면, 나는 분명히 그럴 것이다.)그의 토크 페이지와 나의 토크 페이지 둘 다에서 최근의 오락가락을 보아주십시오. 그가 논평의 복원을 거부하고 기본적으로 나에게 그것을 여기로 가져오라고 말했다.사용자의 토크패그도 볼 수 있고...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:HighInBC...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:68.48.241.158 (너무나 하이인BC는 지난 몇 주 동안 일반적으로 위키백과에서 나를 따라다니며 내가 관여해 온 많은 일에 자신을 관여시켰다는 것을..)68.48.241.155 (tolk) 15:01, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이 IP는 지난 며칠 동안 차단/차단 해제 절차의 문제가 무엇이라고 생각하는지 관심을 끌고 있다.이거 괜찮아.하지만 그들이 차단된 새로운 IP들에게 "포기"를 요청하면 그것이 그 선이다.나는 단지 이 IP에게 새로운 사람들과 그들의 블록을 포함시키지 않고 그들의 주장을 밝히라고 요구했을 뿐이다.그들은 새로운 사용자들을 좌절시키지 않고 그들의 작은 프로젝트를 할 수 있다.HighInBC 15:05, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 자네를 따라다니던 것에 대해서는 지난 두 명의 관리자들이 공정하지 못하다고 생각했기 때문에 자네를 지켜봐 달라고 부탁했었지.나는 어떤 관리자가 당신에게 덜 파괴적이 되라고 말하는지가 문제라고 생각하지 않는다.내가 세어보니 나는 지금 네번째 관리자로 네가 생각하는 너에게 불공평하다.나는 네가 새로 온 사람들을 물지 말고, 이것이 내가 너를 위해 만든 규칙만은 아니라는 것을 깨닫기를 추천한다.HighInBC 15:07, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 묻지는 않았지만, 그가 이미 전가된 모든 것들과 차단되지 않은 몇 가지 요청 거부를 바탕으로 시간을 낭비하고 있다는 것을 암시했다...그리고 이 편집자는 나보다 위키백과에 더 오래 있었던 것 같아. BC의 행동은 어떤 의미에서도 허용될 수 있을까?(주: 그가 더 이상 나를 따라다니지 않았으면 좋겠다는 생각이 일찍부터 꽤 분명해졌다...그리고, 그렇다, 나는 현재 위키피디아에 있는 관리자들에 대해 일반적인 문제가 있다고 생각하는데, 그것을 조사하고 있다 (이것은 위키피디아를 개선하려는 발상이 될것처럼 완벽하게 괜찮다)68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:10, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 68.48.241.158, 나는 당신의 논평이 어디서 원격으로 도움이 되는지도 모르겠고, 오히려 반감을 사고 있다.당신은 이 주변 사람들을 변호하는 사람으로 착각하고 있는 것 같군. 당신처럼 잘못된 정보에 사로잡혀.내가 볼 수 없는 것은 "왜 여기 있니?"라는 질문을 구걸하는 기사들의 실제 편집이다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 15분 12초, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 "질문"이 무엇을 의미하는지 그리고 그것의 적절한 용도를 조사해야 한다.위키피디아를 발전시키려고 온 건데...정책만 보는 것 말고도 수 백 개의 수정 작업을 했어 (정책만 보는 것은 완벽히 받아들일 수 있지만 말이야.68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:15, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 주 차단된 사용자 및 차단 관리자와 논의한 후 158s가 포기하라고 촉구했음에도 불구하고 가장 최근에 차단되지 않은 요청을 수락했다.HighInBC 15:16, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 참고: HighInBC는 블록이 적절하다고 이미 기록되어 있었다...내가 몇 가지를 지적했을 때 그는 아주 최근에야 그의 곡조를 바꾸었다.그리고 참고로 이 블록은 나와 내가 관리 게시판에서 그것에 대한 토론을 시작했을 때 이외에는 아무도 제대로 보지 않았을 것이다...68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:23, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 블록이 적절했다.미봉책도 그랬다.이 블록은 당신이 소란을 피워서가 아니라 블록 리뷰 대기열에 있어서 검토되었다.그들은 자신들의 행동에 대한 문제를 인식하고 중단하기로 약속했기 때문에 차단을 받지 않았다.여기서 일이 어떻게 돌아가는지에 대한 이해 부족은 당신이 사람들에게 문제를 포기하도록 조언을 해주는 것의 일부분이다.그들은 너 때문에 차단되지 않았고, 너의 방해에도 불구하고 차단되지 않았다.나는 단지 그들이 너의 충고를 받아들이지 않고 영원히 떠나지 않아서 기쁘다.HighInBC 15:40, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 왜냐하면 나의 충고는 그가 영원히 떠나라는 것이었기 때문이다...말도 안 되는 소리...나는 이 사람의 사건을 줄곧 옹호한 사람이었고, 당신은 그의 차단과 지원을 한 관리 그룹의 일원이었다...자신을 더욱 고귀하게 보이게 하기 위해 사실을 재조명하는 것은 관리자가 될 수 없다.68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:45, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 참고: HighInBC는 블록이 적절하다고 이미 기록되어 있었다...내가 몇 가지를 지적했을 때 그는 아주 최근에야 그의 곡조를 바꾸었다.그리고 참고로 이 블록은 나와 내가 관리 게시판에서 그것에 대한 토론을 시작했을 때 이외에는 아무도 제대로 보지 않았을 것이다...68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:23, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이 꾸밈없고 기형적인 서류작업을 즉시 종결할 것을 제안한다.건방진 태도, 그것은 명백히 그의 TP에 대한 논쟁의 꼬투리를 잡으려는 시도이기 때문에; 그리고 많은 주장과 고발은 차치하고, 하나의 차이점이 증거로 제시되지 않았기 때문에, 기만적인 것이다.Muffled Pocketed 15:37, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 어떻게 생각해?그는 뭔가 잘못했다...그는 이전 토론에서 그가 잘못한 것을 되돌리는 것을 거절했고 그리고 나서 그는 나에게 이것을 여기로 가져오라고 말했다... 관리자들이 그들이 부적절하고 정책에 반하는 행동을 할 수 있다고 생각하는 것은 위키피디아에 해롭다...현 시점에서 실제 코멘트가 복원되는 것에 대해서는 별로 신경 쓰지 않지만 관리자가 부적절한 행동을 하는 것을 그냥 내버려두지 않는 것에 대해서는...이러한 조치를 취하지 않고 넘어가도록 허용한다면 위키백과에 매우 해롭다...68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:42, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 미안한데, 내가 어떻게 프로젝트를 망치고 있지?포기하라는 너의 충고를 듣지 말라고 했을 때야?내가 다음 메세지를 지웠을 때야?아니면 내가 그들과 함께 막힘없이 일했을 때 어때?내가 프로젝트를 어떻게 망치고 있는지 설명 좀 해줘?HighInBC 15:44, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- ...을 보다.이 사용자는 당신에 의해서도 차단되지 않았을 것이다. 내가 그 사건에 대해 비판한 것이 토론으로 이어졌기 때문이다.그것은 명백할 수 없다.68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:47, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 미안한데, 내가 어떻게 프로젝트를 망치고 있지?포기하라는 너의 충고를 듣지 말라고 했을 때야?내가 다음 메세지를 지웠을 때야?아니면 내가 그들과 함께 막힘없이 일했을 때 어때?내가 프로젝트를 어떻게 망치고 있는지 설명 좀 해줘?HighInBC 15:44, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 어떻게 생각해?그는 뭔가 잘못했다...그는 이전 토론에서 그가 잘못한 것을 되돌리는 것을 거절했고 그리고 나서 그는 나에게 이것을 여기로 가져오라고 말했다... 관리자들이 그들이 부적절하고 정책에 반하는 행동을 할 수 있다고 생각하는 것은 위키피디아에 해롭다...현 시점에서 실제 코멘트가 복원되는 것에 대해서는 별로 신경 쓰지 않지만 관리자가 부적절한 행동을 하는 것을 그냥 내버려두지 않는 것에 대해서는...이러한 조치를 취하지 않고 넘어가도록 허용한다면 위키백과에 매우 해롭다...68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:42, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 IP를 주시하고 있는데, 그들이 WP일 것이라는 우려도 있다.백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아니라, 끝없는 새로운 논의를 통해 다른 사람들의 반감을 사려고만 하는 것 같다.당신이 그들에게 조언하면, IP는 당신에게 매 단계마다 싸운다.솔직히 우리가 아직 도착하든 안 했든 5번째 블록과 마지막 블록 이외의 다른 방법으로 끝낼 수는 없어...세르게크로스73 msg me 15:48, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- ^이 편집자는 또 다른 편집자로, 최근 관리자와 관련된 나의 토론과 제안에 대해 불친절해 왔기 때문에 그의 논평은 그런 관점에서 봐야 한다...그리고 그는 정책에 반대하는 다른 사람의 토크페이지에서 논평 삭제 문제를 다루지 않는다...68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:52, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- 어떤 정책?【베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→15:54, 2016년 6월 4일(UTC)[
- 내 이해는 사람들이 명백한 공공 기물 파괴 행위를 되돌리지 않는 한 다른 사람들의 대화 페이지를 가지고 장난을 쳐서는 안 된다는 것이다.이 경우에도 (토크 페이지 편집자의 허가 없이) 68.48.241.158 (토크) 16:00, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[이 삭제된 다른 댓글 뒤에 나온 댓글이 줄줄이 남아 있다.
- 어떤 정책?【베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→15:54, 2016년 6월 4일(UTC)[
- ^이 편집자는 또 다른 편집자로, 최근 관리자와 관련된 나의 토론과 제안에 대해 불친절해 왔기 때문에 그의 논평은 그런 관점에서 봐야 한다...그리고 그는 정책에 반대하는 다른 사람의 토크페이지에서 논평 삭제 문제를 다루지 않는다...68.48.241.158 (대화) 15:52, 2016년 6월 4일 (UTC)[
- "Another editor who has been unfriendly"...? Who was it who said, 'If all the traffic's heading towards you, you're probably in the wrong lane?' MuffledPocketed 15:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've had plenty of positive interactins on Wikipedia...certainly there are many people involved in the status quo who will get upset at my questioning of the status quo..that is to be expected..note Wikipedia is dying in terms of new editors/new admins...68.48.241.158 (talk) 16:04, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- "Another editor who has been unfriendly"...? Who was it who said, 'If all the traffic's heading towards you, you're probably in the wrong lane?' MuffledPocketed 15:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I think at this point I can leave this for the community to resolve. I am still happy to answer questions if needed, but I think otherwise this can be handled without me. HighInBC 15:57, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
User with ironic name vandalizing Macintosh articles
User:TheWordFixer has been editing articles on old Macintosh computers, claiming they can run newer versions of OS X and that they are still manufactured despite the fact Apple discontinued PowerPC-based Macs in 2006.
I have just reverted one of his absurd edits.--76.21.6.165 (talk) 03:46, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- A quick review of his so-called "contributions" indicates TheWordFixer (talk · contribs) is somewhere between troll and incompetent, and should not be editing here. I don't see where he was notified, so I have done so. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:02, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- The user hasn't edited for 2 days. I think they've got bored and given up. Mind you, I've seen iMac G3s advertised as "vintage and rare" on eBay and actually sell for what I would assume is obsolete junk these days. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:26, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Edit conflict on the page Constitution of Medina
I’ve been in an encounter with User: Alexis Ivanov on the page Constitution of Medina in which he shows unacceptable (passive)-aggressive behaviour. Earlier I removed the sentence : “This was the first constitution of democracy in the history of constitutional rule” from the article Constitution of Medina. I think that the sentence I removed from the article constitutes a surprising or apparently important claim not covered by multiple mainstream sources as expressed here. The claim is about a matter of history and has been cited verbatim from a source not written by a historian but by two sociologists. More sources were cited calling it the “first constitution ever” but these all omit the word “democracy” and were in my opinion not dispassionate sources as would be required for an exceptional claim. The issue also revolves about the words “constitution” but especially about the word “democracy” After an edit war in which I myself may have been in contravention of 3rr I have engaged in polite discussion with User:CounterTime who challenged my edit but was at least willing to involve in polite conversation about alternative language. As was I. I have since found at least three quotes in which the content of the sentence is contradicted by certified historians. I will quote my earlier message on the talkpage verbatim now:
“CounterTime and Alexis Ivanov, It’s not all that difficult to find reliable sources that mention earlier constitutions and indeed ones that are explicitly associated with democracy. I have a few here and a few here and also here (note especially page 58 among these last ones). I’m not done with the Roman ones yet but would still urge you to consider my most recent proposal.”
User: Alexis Ivanov has responded with more passive aggressive language (also in edit summaries) and more than one revision without waiting for the other party involved, User:CounterTime to weigh in. I think his behaviour is unacceptable versus other users and versus the sources he is now confronted with that flatly contradict the sentence he is determined to return to the article. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:24, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- I had NAC-closed this as a content dispute, until I realized that both parties, Hebel and Alexis Ivanov are well past 3RR, and therefore both in danger of being blocked for edit warring. My advice to both of you would be is to stop, before an admin sees fit to block you both, and iron out the dispute on the talk page, or go to dispute resolution if that doesn't work. BMK (talk) 20:48, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- RegentsPark (talk·contribs) full-protected the article which is one solution to this problem but not the one I'd have taken. There are actually a half a dozen editors disrupting that article and I'd have blocked them all. My guess is that 90% of the editors that have touched that article in the last 12 months are likely socks or meats.--v/r - TP 00:55, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Apologies. I had intended digging into the edit warring and then commenting here but got distracted at work. I semi-protected the article to prevent further disruption but that should not preclude other admins from examining whether the edit warring editors are aware of the 3RR rule and who should or should not be blocked. --regentspark (comment) 13:03, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- RegentsPark (talk·contribs) full-protected the article which is one solution to this problem but not the one I'd have taken. There are actually a half a dozen editors disrupting that article and I'd have blocked them all. My guess is that 90% of the editors that have touched that article in the last 12 months are likely socks or meats.--v/r - TP 00:55, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Propose 24-hours away from the project for both editors, to allow for the article to be repaired in a sterile environment. That edit-warring takes the biscuit. Muffled Pocketed 13:13, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
@RegentsPark:this user holds the opinion that the page should be set to semi-protection with all user accounts attempting to disrupt it be blockedFAMASFREENODE (talk) 14:36, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Disruptive edits by 82.32.50.222
- 82.32.50.222 (talk · contribs)
- He/she creates very poor subsubstubs. No progress since January.Xx236 (talk) 09:31, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Tyrannus was a redirect to Kingbird rewritten without explanation, which created a problem in Tyrannus (동음이의).Xx236 (talk) 09:51, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've reverted Tyrannus, as it was based on one species, Tyrannus huali, for which I can find no evidence. But there is a Yutyrannus huali. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:26, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Kittysaurus was and should be a redirect, the editor has just reverted his poor text. Xx236 (talk) 11:56, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- No, the revert was done by someone else. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:06, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Trachodontoidea, Trachodontinae, Trachodontidae - redirects modernized to subsubstubs.Xx236 (talk) 12:23, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) I just reverted Podokesaurinae and Podokesauridae back to a redirect, same in Tyrannosaurus bataar by another user. The anon is also removing maintenace templates. WP:CIR? I don't doubt for a moment the anon believes he is helping the project, though. Kleuske (talk) 15:17, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
User:WaterlooRoadFanWWE
| I indef blocked after they continued with disruptive editing after warnings. They are not here to help. Fences&Windows 12:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This user has been making problematic edits to the project ranging, such as the following:
- Edit warring over original research diff 2, and adding unsourced content while being fully aware of the policy about reliable sources prior to making such edits. diff 1
- Removing sourced content diff 1
- Uploading copyrighted images that are redundant to fair use ones or derivatives of other works while claiming these are his own work.
He has been warned numerous times over the past month, but to no avail. I'm not sure if he is purposely being disruptive or is simply WP:NOTGETTINGIT, but something needs to be done. --wL<speak·check> 06:14, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I reported them to WP:ANV a few days ago but they said there wasn't enough to take action through that channel even though there was adequate warning at that point. I've tried to introduce them to policy but the bad edits haven't stopped. It's either deliberate vandalism or just a lack of WP:COMPETENCE.LM2000 (talk) 07:15, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support indef block. I speedily deleted a WWE Draft logo they claimed to have created and which they tagged with free licenses, warned them and linked to policy. They promptly uploaded it again and still claimed to have created it. Coupled with all their other unheeded warnings, this shows they don't know how to edit or don't care. Fences&Windows 08:53, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Fences and windows:, they responded to your warnings with a personal attack.
It seems like he's not here to contribute. --wL<speak·check> 17:40, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Fences and windows:, they responded to your warnings with a personal attack.
- he just apologized. It seems that he's clueless, so I'm slowly trying to introduce him to WP:EYNTK to clue him into editing. Hopefully he follows it. --wL<speak·check> 18:02, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you, wL, for engaging with them and removing whatever the attack was. I am not going to pull the trigger (them baiting me into blocking them would not reflect well on me), but they are definitely on a final warning. Any recurrence of this behaviour will almost certainly see them blocked. Fences&Windows 18:42, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Well, if it means anything, his latest edit was a OR post about Goldberg being heel, where @Prefall: reverted. He's run out of rope. --wL<speak·check> 10:50, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've warned him repeatedly about sources. I'm glad he apologized for incivility but he has yet to back up his claim that he takes the encyclopedia seriously.LM2000 (talk) 19:49, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
If these ([92][93]) edits are any indication, it's clear at this point that they are a deliberate vandal.LM2000 (talk) 11:42, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Speedy G4 (repost) tag removed by page author
| (non-admin closure) Page deleted by Katie; user warned. Vensco (T / C) 18:46, 4 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
WP:SPEEDY states: "The creator of a page may not remove a speedy deletion tag from it." but this happening here: [94]. I think this can be handled here, rather then through wasting time at AfD second time (given that the article doesn't seem to be much better then the spam piece that was deleted a while back)? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus reply here 08:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Regardless of who removed it, this was a clearly inappropriate tag, so don't re-add it. Looking at the two versions, there's no earthly way they could be considered "substantially identical". ‑ Iridescent 09:05, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, they were substantially identical – he had expanded it, but there was even identical phrasing used in a couple of spots, and I deleted it under G4. I'm not going to wheel war over it if you want to restore it, though. I've warned the editor against promotional edits, since that seems like all he's here to do. Katietalk 09:17, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Balgonie Castle/"As per legal proceedings"
| (non-admin closure) Material Rev-Delled and a warning about COI and NLT left by Fences and windows, article also semi-protected --Cameron11598 (Talk) 17:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I'm not sure if this edit is a legal threat, an attempt at censorship or quite what but I thought it best to note it here. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:31, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Mutt Lunker, it may have been a legal threat though that edit summary may just be a reference to legal action being taken elsewhere. However, I have revdelled this material back to April as it was negative and poorly sourced, and semi-protected the article for a month. I will leave a note for that account to bear in mind COI and NLT. If anyone can find actually reliable sources for this, then it might be included with caution. Fences&Windows 19:00, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- The incident did get press coverage. I will open a discussion at the BLP noticeboard about whether and how to include it on the page. Fences&Windows 19:38, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:19, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- The incident did get press coverage. I will open a discussion at the BLP noticeboard about whether and how to include it on the page. Fences&Windows 19:38, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
More Vandalism On Tommy Sotomayor Page
| Semi-protected for a year. Previous period was for 6 months, saw immediate return to offensive vandalism (now revdelled). Someone could write an actual bio for him too, it's a sorry stub. Fences&Windows 19:53, 3 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Sotomayor
As you can see here, multiple accounts have been vandalizing the Tommy Sotomayor Wikipedia page again, this page was protected because of repeated vandalism, not the protection status is gone and the vandals are back:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/62.12.67.139
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:601:E00:309C:7CE5:D6AC:BFB1:2DE3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2607:FCC8:C7C6:4A00:1017:FC58:F62E:E066
Could an administrator please deal or help with this problem and perhaps change the page status to semi-protected to stop vandalism? Neptune's Trident (talk) 18:49, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
SimonTrew
| (non-admin closure) SimonTrew reluctantly indeffed by Floquenbeam for making legal threats. BMK (talk) 23:45, 3 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
SimonTrew (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This editor has been here a few times over the last little while regarding indiscriminate CSD tagging, incivility, and such, but has so far escaped sanction (at least lately) because he does good work at RfD and in other areas. Recently, in response to a comment he interpreted as a personal attack, he posted this probably-in-jest legal threat on Tavix's talk page, which led to him receiving the standard no-legal-threats template courtesy of Godsy. Si's response to the warning was to insist that it was "definitely a legal threat", which led to another non-templated warning from Iridescent. After another exchange and a third warning, I tried in my way to explain from the policy why making these sorts of threats even if you have no intention of following through, and suggested that he should retract his threat. His response was to double down on the threat, insisting "...I intend to sue the Wikimedia Foundation and subpoena Jimmy Wales" and "I fully intend to sue. I do not make idle threats." That edit alone should be enough to earn him an indef WP:NLT block, even if multiple users hadn't already warned him not to do it.
Since I started writing this out he's continued, and is now demanding an apology so that he won't sue, which is textbook chilling effect, threatening to go to court if you don't get your way. That is a bright-line blockable behaviour under the WP:NLT policy, and as such I request an administrator to act.
That's the current issue for now, but I have more to say about this user in another edit. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 21:38, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I had really hoped we could IAR and just everyone ignore the venting on his talk page. No one on the planet considers that a legitimate legal threat, so while it's intended as "chilling", it isn't actually chilling. I'll try to talk to him one more time, but there are a lot of admins who (a) watch this page, and (b) always block when they see a legal threat, so I imagine my note on his talk page will be in vain. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:43, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- The user appears to be in the midst of treatment for quite a nasty illness. This may be a contributing factor to somewhat unusual behaviour. Irondome (talk) 21:46, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Not therapy. Block for NLT until he retracts it or gers better. People have been blocked under NLT for far less than this. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:48, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- It has been retracted so it is now moot, in any case. Irondome (talk) 22:17, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah because he got what he wanted. The exact situation NLT is meant to prevent. I don't see him promising not to make legal threats in future... Only in death does duty end (talk) 22:23, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- No one is required to promise not to make legal threats in the future. He "got what he wanted" not because of the legal threat, but because Tavix was remarkably gracious in wanting to see this deescalated. A very uncommon trait around here. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:28, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah because he got what he wanted. The exact situation NLT is meant to prevent. I don't see him promising not to make legal threats in future... Only in death does duty end (talk) 22:23, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- It has been retracted so it is now moot, in any case. Irondome (talk) 22:17, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Not therapy. Block for NLT until he retracts it or gers better. People have been blocked under NLT for far less than this. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:48, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
In addition to what I wrote above, Simon has become a liability over the last month or so. He's taken it upon himself to sort out the remaining Neelix-related redirects, which is good for the project and there are an awful lot of them, but the way in which he has approached this has drawn a lot of criticism. His activity with the redirects is not particularly of concern, I think that it's important to stress that he has been doing good work. What has not been good has been Si's various reactions to the criticism, of which the legal threat issue above is an escalation. Any time any user has something to say about his activity with the redirects, however valid it may be (sometimes it's really not valid and he has certainly endured actual personal attacks) Si refuses to acknowledge the criticism and declares it a personal attack instead, which leads to lengthy replies like the thread currently going on on his talk page.
Roughly a month ago, he was brought before ANI in response to indiscriminate CSD tagging and uncivil comments related to Neelix redirects. He had been tagging redirects for WP:G6 deletion with poor rationale, sometimes just the word "Neelix", or sometimes a rhyme related to the title of the redirect. He was aware of the discussion because he replied to it, although he later insisted that he had not been notified and was not aware of it. Several users advised him not to tag articles without a clear rationale and not to re-tag articles where a tag had been removed, but he continued doing it anyway.
A little while after that, after I had warned him about grave dancing which was related to something else, he created Ladies and gentelman I should like to annouce, a page which he created solely for the purpose of nominating it for deletion so as to create this RfD thread celebrating progress through deleting some number of Neelix's redirects. In frustration, I wrote this fairly terse note on his talk page, advising him that if he was trying to get banned he was going about it in all the right ways. He responded, essentially but in many more words, that he was "not interested".
This is not limited to RfD; not very long ago he caused a disturbance at Tavix's RfA through a series of comments made because he seemed to feel the need to defend himself from something another editor said, which he had interpreted as an accusation of canvassing. The kerfuffle arose because he declared an intention to support the candidacy but absolutely refused ([95], [96], [97]) to put it in the correct section even after several users informed him of the typical process, asked him to clarify his intent, even practically begged him to respond at one point; see also the Bureaucrats' noticeboard thread where this confusion is documented.
tl;dr: the supposed personal attack which led to the legal threats mentioned above was in fact just another in a long line of users who have opined on Si's continuing and increasingly erratic behaviour; literally, "the problem with Simon though is that he doesn't seem to listen to those trying to help him." That is exactly what the problem is. So while I think it would be fully reasonable to let a one-off legal threat of this sort slide, none of this can be considered one-off in Si's case. All of these behaviours together, plus the fact that he doesn't listen when other editors give him advice and he is escalating, show that something more needs to be done here. For not just the legal threats but for the combination of all of this, I propose that Si be blocked until he acknowledges, at least, that not everyone is his enemy, and that behaving as though every comment mentioning your name is a personal attack is no way to work in a collaborative environment. Or else he simply takes time off for his hand to heal properly; he has blamed a number of these behaviours on his injury, which does sound serious, and many users have encouraged him to take a break.
Also, thanks to Tavix for apologizing in effort to deescalate the situation, but it should be noted that Si's response to the apology contains a repeat of the legal threat to sue anyone who he perceives to be libelling him, so clearly he has not heard the message that making legal threats is not allowed. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 22:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've grudgingly blocked SimonTrew indef for legal threats, which have continued even after he "withdrew" them. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:01, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Personal and vicious attacks from User:Asilah1981
| OP blocked as a sockpuppet, but Asilah1981 is warned not to make attacks on other users even when provoked or to make racially-charged comments, e.g. "inbred", "face of a gypsy". Fences&Windows 15:36, 5 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Asilah1981 has made vicious personal attacks against me and against ethnic Asturians at the Morisco article and talk page.
"Veritas2016 Ok you are clearly a neo-nazi with personal issues brought about by the contradiction of having your head filled with white supremacist ideas while having the face of a gypsy. In any case, please leave this article alone. Its about history, not how pure your blood line is. I'm automatically reverting all edits made with "racial hygiene" in mind. I suggest you go edit articles about Melendi, the greatest and most beautiful of the legendary Asturian race. Asilah1981 (talk) 21:24, 3 June 2016 (UTC)" [98]
Please do something about this vicious user. Veritas2016 (talk) 00:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: Veritas seems to like vicious edit summaries and is editing while logged out. TJH2018talk 00:30, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- @TJH2018: Editing while logged-out, especially accidentally and especially if they are open about it, is not in itself a violation, and all but three of the IP's edits were before the account's first edit. That said, block-evasion is certainly a violation, and that IP previously admitted to being a blocked user evading their block. If the new account is the same person, they have now created a sock account that will soon be indefinitely blocked, and the IP will likely receive another block of three months or longer. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/DifensorFidelis. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:40, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
I pledge guilty of making a personal attack. I'm sick of articles on historical topics being periodically attacked by racists who feel some sentence in it offends their sense of racial pride. It happens periodically every few months by a user with changing user names from or identifying strongly with a small region in northern Spain. I doubt he was brought up in Spain, since no Spaniard with such views would have been capable of learning a second language. In any case, I am starting to think it is the same person, not that I can demonstrate it. I flipped out finally violating the No Personal Attacks rule. I find having to engage with him/her a form of mental torture. All this to protect articles which only very tangentially touch upon the the matter which concerns him the most: The purity of the blood line of his stupid region, which isn't even mentioned on the article! Its fricking surreal and medieval. I can't believe people like this still exist.Asilah1981 (talk) 09:58, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'd just like to point out that being a complete racist actually has no bearing on one's ability to acquire a second language. Also, Asilah are you implying that you believe Veritas2016 has edited under other usernames in the past? If so, adding these to the currently-open SPI would be helpful. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:37, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hijiri 88 I don't know I just remember IP addresses periodically editing or edit warring, over the past years, on articles with the same ludicrous opinions and intentions. There is another similar Portuguese editor called Melroross although he is considerably more self-restrained and rational. I'm not accusing anyone of sockpuppetry. I just don't want articles to be vandalized for spurious reasons. Asilah1981 (talk) 15:45, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Close The OP has been blocked as a sockpuppet of an indeffed user. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:34, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
(Enforcer) Jytdog has lost objectivity in COIN
| This is a difficult decision. There is unanimous support for sanctioning 009o9 (ie: a boomerang) and I am convinced that if left open longer, this discussion would only draw more support. The easist solution is to indef block because that seems to be the consensus, but that is something I tried to avoid. Looking at the claims being made and verifying the comments, I see a great deal of troubling diffs and no exaggeration. Paid editing is indeed allowed (and frankly, I support that) but that isn't a license to bypass the Pillars or any policy. Attempting to modify policy for the sole purpose of benefiting paid editing is a serious breach of ethics, at the very least. At the end of the day, it all boils down to WP:NOTHERE. We are here to build an encyclopedia. Of course, we each have other reasons to be here as well: the love of writing, desire to collaborate with others, to hone our writing skills or even as a part of our employment, but still, it revolves around building an encyclopedia. When an editor doesn't have "building an encyclopedia" as part of their reasoning for being here, and their own personal gain appears to be the singular reeason they are here, this is inconsistent with the altruistic vision of Wikipedia. So while I have looked hard at a solution that would allow you to continue editing, I simply don't think this is possible at this time, and as such, I will block for an indefinite period of time, based on the consensus of editors in this discussion and the wider community consensus regarding editors who are not here to build an encyclopedia. Perhaps another admin can craft a restriction that would allow you to come back, one that would protect the encyclopedia, and I would grant them authority to do so without my permission. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:12, 4 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Subject: Jytdog (talk · contribs)
Jytdog is doing some commendable work at COIN, however their objectivity appears to waning and this volunteer has taken to directly editing the guidance, in relation to cases they are involved in. Jytdog appears to have a predisposed bias with the following stated on their userpage: "In my experience, contract editors are more difficult. They tend to hide and when approached, tend to lie more.",[99] which is antithetical to WP:AFG and especially troubling concerning their efforts at COIN, AfD and directly editing policies and guidelines pages.
- Edits to COIN
- Edits to Wikipedia:Conflict of interest (guideline)
- Edits to Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure
- Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)
I am a declared paid editor and volunteer under the same account to avoid any appearance of being a sock. A case at COIN has been opened as to whether I, as a part time COI editor, can participate directly on advice pages and whether WP:BRD is extended to COI editors on policy and guideline pages.[100] So, I am watching the COIN page. After commenting on this unrelated issue at COIN,[101] I was cajoled on my user page,[102] and I've finally had enough.
In a previous COIN,[103] Jytdog involved himself and discovered that the guidance on Template:Advert/doc did not match what they were using the tag for, the tag was specifically written for WP:SPAM not an all encompassing tag for WP:NOTSOAPBOX. After Jytdog was made aware that the (template page) guidance did not match his enforcement goals,(both sections in this diff concern my interests) Jytdog proceeded to modify the guidance in ADVERT/Doc,diff and then proceeded to remove a passage I submitted to an emerging advice page (Help:Maintenance template removal).[104] Jytdog did not come to the ADVERT talk page, [105] until after I had started a discussion and was subsequently advised read BRD concerning the matter.[106]
Jytdog has also taken to hatting discussions he is involved with, primarily the content that may become embarrassing to him or his colleague at COIN. Jytdog voted on this AfD [107] and then hatted my supporting arguments down to the state where I had to question him about WP:TPO, he responded with a cite to the WP:BLUDGEON essay.[108] While he was pruning the article, he would not allow favorable edits, I finally reworked (I have no connection with the subject) the article in my userspace, and I modified my (keep) vote so that my copy offered for consideration, would not be hatted by Jytdog (again, already involved at this point).[109]
The extremes that Jytdog will go to are quite disturbing, apparently, alumni editing about your school is now considered COI editing.Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IDEA Public Schools and COIN
Finally, in my encounters with Jytdog over the past month, I've discovered his non-WP:AGF enforcement approach has garnered media attention,[110][111] concerning the RepRap project. ANI
I may have been pressing the boundaries a little with using BRD on guidance pages to get talk page conversations started, but I don't feel that way about participating in advice pages, I have a perspective to offer, especially concerning the proliferation of perma-tags, which are often placed (Twinkle users) without talk page summaries -- reverting them is the best way to notify the tagger that we can't read minds. Instead of pressing, Jytdog is moving the goal posts while the game is in play. 009o9Disclosure(Talk) 07:18, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- On the face of it, this appears to be a vexatious complaint by a COI/paid editor caught out editing COI relevant guidelines. -Roxy the dog™ woof 07:24, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- This is not surprising. 009o9 is a very tough/brutal negotiator, and I was expecting this.
- I am not off the rails. I am seeking to restrain 009o9 from directly editing guidelines/templates/help documents about NOTABILITY and tagging in ways that benefit his paid editing business, and yes I opened a COIN case to get consensus on whether it is appropriate for 009o9 to directly edit guidelines etc. (And so far, the consensus is, that it is not appropriate for him to do that)
- There, as here, he has attacked me to throw up flak around the issue.
- In addition, earlier this evening he interfered in a discussion I was having with an editor at COIN (who after 009o9 tried to derail things, acknowledged their COI with regard to their school). And yes I warned 009o9 that if he continued doing that, I would seek a TBAN for him from COI matters. (This is what happened with Elvey, see here and here).
- I'll add here that I am not at all opposed to paid editors who follow PAID and COI; I work with a few who make very clueful and well crafted proposals on Talk or in drafts, and things go smoothly.
- Comment - I became involved with this because 009o9 has been not listening on WP:NMUSIC because because everyone else is wrong and "the troubling atmosphere at AFC and AFD" twice. Basically, 009 wants to keep his pet article, and is trying to change WP:NSONG to do it, despite the fact that it was rejected at AFC, so now that the COIN discussion is against a paid editor editing guidelines to keep his own content, he wants to discredit the COI process. The editor is too disruptive to the project, and I think a boomerang block is in order. MSJapan (talk) 07:42, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- There is no close on that discussion, I'm seeing two oppose votes and two support votes (not counting me) and a new editor offering a modified proposal today. Policy is hard, all povs should be discussed and unintended consequences can reveal themselves along the way.[112] My article is unpublished, so I'm not sure what you mean by "keep his pet article." That article is a case that the guideline (in its evolution) doesn't seem to cover anymore. I won't be resubmitting the article until some more press surrounding it turns up. BTW: thanks for your edits tonight,on this you must have had to go pretty far back in my history to find that volunteer article it. The article did need some work, repairing the referencing that got hosed up now 009o9Disclosure(Talk) 08:08, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Boomerang time. 009o9 is attempting to spam Wikipedia, and is trying to personally attack those most effective against his spam. His tendentious behaviour warrants a ban and probably notification of his clients. This is not how to do paid editing and the example should not be rewarded - David Gerard (talk) 08:44, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment WP:VOTESTACKING anyone?[113] I'm not sure that Jytdog could reasonably expect a neutral discussion/participation by seeking out COIN watchlist contributors, the conversation is related, but I doubt you'll find a neutral ideology there. I'm not here because of my COIN, I'm here because of this threat that comes from siding with a newbie.[114] 009o9Disclosure(Talk) 09:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Boomerang. Linking to this discussion at COIN isn't votestacking, that's nonsense. And going by 009o9's input on COIN and above, it's typical of their bludgeoning approach. For just one example, the self-interested so-called "media attention" that he states both above and at COIN that Jytdog has "garnered" is not the kind of media attention that we need to care about. The real question here is whether 009o9 is here to contribute to the encyclopedia. I vote "no". I agree with everything David Gerard says. Bishonen talk 10:02, 4 June 2016 (UTC).
- Boomerang BMK (talk) 10:06, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Boomerang Good to know the cabal is still around. They keep leaving me out of the meetings, though. Katietalk 11:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support Boomerang For someone with complaints about the atmosphere, the editor has not exactly gone out of their way to diffuse it. Muffled Pocketed 12:11, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Boomerang to siteban @009o9 as WP:NOTHERE.
After reading this page, my initial response was that we should impose editing restriction on 009o9: 1RR, topic ban on COI, and a ban on editing any policy or guideline page. However, the more I study 009o9's conduct, the more I am persuaded that they are engaged in a prolonged, systematic effort to stack the deck in favour of COI editing, and to undermine the work of those volunteer editors who give their time to trying to counter the people who warp seek to Wikipedia for personal gain. This complaint here is a direct and bold attempt to (as the English say) "get their revenge in first", by creating a FUD-storm around one of the editors who is most diligent is challenging COI misconduct. This WP:BATTLEGROUND approach is deeply toxic; a volunteer community can easily be ground down by this sort of aggression.
Yes, 009o9 has acted honourably in disclosing the fact that they are a paid editor ... but that disclosure should be accompanied by a determination to accept the limits imposed by the non-COI community, rather than campaign across multiple fronts to weaken the defences and injure the defenders. Enough already: be gone! --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 12:30, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
An IPv6 user is messing with my page.
| Knowledgebattle's user page has been semi-protected for one week by Lectonar. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 16:32, 5 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't know how IPv6 IPs work, but it's at least these 2:
I see that they both start with 2607:FB90:, but I don't know what that means.
It's not even a deal – and I feel like a dummy for reporting such a dumb thing – but they've now changed my gender userbox to "female" twice. Here and here, as seen on my page revision history. It's just annoying vandalism.
They were warned once, by DavidLeighEllis. Since it comes from 2 different IPv6 IPs, one would assume they're 2 different people. However, given the fact that it was the same, exact edit, done by an IPv6, both from a T-Mobile unit, within 24 hours from each other, I'd say it's safe to assume that they're the same person.
There's a problem, though, and this might just be due to my own ignorance of how IPv6 works. #1 seems to be from King County (Bellavue), Washington. #2 seems to be from Cook County (Chicago), Illinois.
Given that it's likely the same person, and that person probably didn't travel halfway across the US in half a day, is it a VPN? Or does someone know something more? And how can I stop my page from being edited?
KnowledgeBattle (Talk) ──╤╦︻ GodlessInfidel ︻╦╤── 03:57, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) The same starting numbers mean both IP-adresses come from the same network (2607:FB90::/32, which is T-Mobile). The network is a commercial consumer network (") not a VPN. IP-locators are not always accurate (and sometimes waaaay off the mark), especially in IPv6. It's best to apply a grain of salt, here and there. Kleuske (talk) 06:44, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- It would seem that indefinitely semiprotecting User:Knowledgebattle without protecting the associated talk page would be an obvious remedy. There is no reason why any IP user should ever have a need to edit that page. --08:09, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:Knowledgebattle's user page has been semi-protected by Lectonar. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 11:48, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
A user is vandalizing a page I follow
| Page semi'd one month by Sergecross73 (non-admin closure) Muffled Pocketed 14:26, 5 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello this user 211.30.131.54 which hasn't even created a user or talk page has been continually adding fake information to 2017 Rugby League World Cup and now he's deleted referenced information that me and previous 'experienced users' edited and it cannot be retrieved due to the amount of edits he has been submitting.
This is just one of a number of 'fake' users that have been vandalizing rugby league pages with the users: Starmaker1234 and Cheeselandabc currently or being blocked recently due to their nonsense edits. They, along with 211.30.131.54, have also vandalized other pages outside the sport of rugby league and sport in general.
So could you please take notice of User:211.30.131.54 and block him if he continues to vandalize with fake information.
Cheers. RugbyLeagueFan (talk) 20:33, 5 June 2016 (NZST)
- Page semi-protected for one month by User:Sergecross73. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 14:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
User:133.130.117.13 personal attacks
| (non-admin closure) blocked by Euryalus Jytdog (talk) 09:45, 5 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
133.130.117.13 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) I have not looked into their accusations of anti-semitism and vandalism of another user, but reverting this IP's personal attacks led to personal attacks against me. They did not heed the warning I left on their talk page. Any of their edit summaries should be enough for an indefinite civility block. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 09:15, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Indef block - Textbook case of WP:NOTHERE. Jusdafax 09:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Insulting Edit Summaries
| talk page access removed by Huon--regentspark (comment) 13:21, 5 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Shown by this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:46.30.211.170&action=history and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3A46.30.211.170&type=revision&diff=723818216&oldid=723818134 , User:46.30.211.170 has been making insulting edit summaries. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 13:06, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
And blocked by Future Perfect at Sunrise. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 13:09, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
But still being annoying on his/her talk page... ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 13:11, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- You know perfectly well the IP (like any editor) is entitled to remove notices from their TP. Why
arewere you edit-warring over it? Muffled Pocketed 13:16, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
More Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:46.30.211.170&oldid=prev&diff=723818938, please revoke his talk page access. My problem isn't the edit warring, It's the edit summaries. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 13:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- You're creating unnecessary drama. He was blocked before you even filed this report. His subsequent unsavoury edit-summaries were in response to you repeatedly inserting that ANI notice (which he had the right to remove). Hence, my description of your behaviour as edit-warring. Muffled Pocketed 13:23, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
User forcing edits through
| Semi'd two weeks by Malcolmxl5 (non-admin closure) Muffled Pocketed 13:59, 5 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
198.90.112.34 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) keeps re-adding content to the ATV Offroad Fury article despite being told that it violates #15 of WP:GAMECRUFT. There are also some other issues. Eik Corell (talk) 13:41, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I think AN3 could probably handle this. I'm not sure it's strictly vandalism or comes within a 3RR exception, so probably best if you step back from the article as of now. Cheers! MuffledPocketed 13:47, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- The user has received warnings already on an earlier IP: 198.90.112.34(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Eik Corell (talk) 13:50, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've semi-protected the page for two weeks and watchlisted it. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 13:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Trafford centre
| Closing as no admin tools needed, BMK moved a page (unaware of the history), Stephen moved it back, So the discussion's now here and the OP has obviously been directed to WP:RM. NAC, –Davey2010Talk 01:33, 6 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have been told to come to this page regarding an "edit conflict" on the above page. The new name for the centre is 'Intu Trafford Centre", however user Stevo1000 believes that this is using Wikipedia as an advertising service. However, this is not the case when it is the new official name of the centre, as the citation and others show. Clearly if this edit keeps on being reverted, it would lead to people being mislead of the true name. Upon failing my request for page protection, I was told to raise the issue here. This issue has been going on for quite some time now. Tony Fan123 (talk) 19:38, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- This is a content dispute. Administrators do not adjudicate in content disputes and you will need to follow the steps at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution starting with opening a discussion on the article talk page. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:55, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- To be precise, the user asked for protection, and I rejected the protected request. They contested my rejection, and I asked them to file a request here, for a second opinion.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ah, I see. For what it's worth, I see a slow edit war on that page, a content dispute, but not a need for protection at this time. I do see a need for people to start talking and hopefully, administrator attention will not be necessary. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 21:20, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- There does appear to be a majority on the talkpage against the move, per WP:COMMONNAME. Regardless, to rename the page, a requested move would be the way forward. In recent times such renamings of buildings have tended to follow COMMONNAME, for example Genting Arena is now at the sponsor's name because all reliable sources use it, whilst St James' Park was not renamed the Sports Direct Arena despite that being its official name purely because it wasn't commonly used. Laura Jamieson (talk) 21:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- There's been confusion over the names of these for years however consensus so far has always been to keep the prev names per COMMONNAME etc etc, BMK may of been completely unaware to the few req moves at various intu store-talkpages (Even I don't check the TPS when moving), I suggest this be closed and the OP fires up a WP:RM .–Davey2010Talk 22:53, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Davey2010 is correct, I was unaware of the other RMs, I simply checked for what the current official name is. I suppose I can be faulted for not doing sufficient due diligence, but that doesn't excuse someone coming to my talk page and accusing me of playing "silly buggers." (I never have understood exactly what that idiomatic expression means in Britglish, although I certainly get the sense of it.) BMK (talk) 23:38, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- There's been confusion over the names of these for years however consensus so far has always been to keep the prev names per COMMONNAME etc etc, BMK may of been completely unaware to the few req moves at various intu store-talkpages (Even I don't check the TPS when moving), I suggest this be closed and the OP fires up a WP:RM .–Davey2010Talk 22:53, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- There does appear to be a majority on the talkpage against the move, per WP:COMMONNAME. Regardless, to rename the page, a requested move would be the way forward. In recent times such renamings of buildings have tended to follow COMMONNAME, for example Genting Arena is now at the sponsor's name because all reliable sources use it, whilst St James' Park was not renamed the Sports Direct Arena despite that being its official name purely because it wasn't commonly used. Laura Jamieson (talk) 21:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ah, I see. For what it's worth, I see a slow edit war on that page, a content dispute, but not a need for protection at this time. I do see a need for people to start talking and hopefully, administrator attention will not be necessary. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 21:20, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- To be precise, the user asked for protection, and I rejected the protected request. They contested my rejection, and I asked them to file a request here, for a second opinion.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- A discussion (or rather, a continuation of a 2013 discussion) has started up on the talk page. So if people would like to weigh in there ... --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:44, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Link please? OldTraffordLover (talk) 23:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Talk:Trafford Centre --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 00:02, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
| BLOCKED | |
| (non-admin closure) Amitashi was blocked by Ian.thomson block set to indefinite by Boing! said Zebedee talk page access revoked by Ian.thomson. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 06:14, 6 June 2016 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Amitashi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
WP:AN3#User:Amitashi reported by User:Wee Curry Monster (Result: Blocked)
WP:AN3#User:Wee Curry Monster and User:Toddy1 reported by User:Amitashi (Result: OP blocked)
WP:AN3#User:Amitashi reported by User:EvergreenFir (Result: )
First Unblock Request
2nd Unblock Request
Blocked for 36 hrs, as soon as that ended he is back again with the same story of edit warring. Although there is a current AN3 request, given that its clear he isn't here to improve the encyclopedia I thought ANI may be a better option whilst the disruption is ongoing. @Ian.thomson: the previous blocking admin. WCMemail 22:41, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- As filer of the newest AN3 report, I support a block. Please see WP:AN3#User:Amitashi reported by User:EvergreenFir (Result: ) for diffs and discussion. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:43, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Not final admin action I've told Amitashi that if he reverts again today (or later without discussing matters), I'm going to block him until he proves he understands WP:EW. However, I consider my action to be addressing the previous edit war, not handling this overall problem. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:02, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- He/she does not seem to grasp the concept that citations should support the content they are being cited for. See Talk:Ukraine#New paragraph not supported by its citations and Talk:Ukraine#Eastern Ukraine's displeasure of unpopular Maidan consequences. Maybe he/she does not bother to read to sources before citing them.-- Toddy1 (talk) 23:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Or that I'm not Volunteer Marek. And he's been so insistent about it that I'm starting to think that a WP:CIR block is at least as appropriate as WP:NOTHERE. I have the block menu open in another tab and the reasons filled out already, just waiting for that last straw. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:06, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Amitashi is refactoring the talk page, and in the process deleting comments by other users:
- 00:41, 5 June 2016 removed comment by Taivo and replaced with his/her own comment.
- 07:37, 5 June 2016 deleted one section including comments by Toddy1 dated 21:43, 2 June 2016. Changed the heading on another section.
- -- Toddy1 (talk) 08:16, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Amitashi is refactoring the talk page, and in the process deleting comments by other users:
- Or that I'm not Volunteer Marek. And he's been so insistent about it that I'm starting to think that a WP:CIR block is at least as appropriate as WP:NOTHERE. I have the block menu open in another tab and the reasons filled out already, just waiting for that last straw. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:06, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Now he/she is deleting sections with comments from other editors on Talk:War in Donbass.[115] Please can you indefinitely block this person.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
[116] Partisan edits on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which do not reflect what source actually says.
[117] Repeat of partisan edits, removing relable cites such as TIME magazine.
Please note discretionary sanctions apply on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. WCMemail 09:49, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, we've had exactly zero useful contributions from this editor and multiple instances of them misrepresenting sources as well as more edit warring on different pages. I'm going to be gone for the next couple of weeks, so this is enough WP:ROPE for me. Ian.thomson (talk) 09:58, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Amitashi blocked To be clearer. And now I see we have legal threats in his unblock request. Ian.thomson (talk) 10:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- [118] Demand to be unblocked, threat of recourse to the European Court of Human Rights against Wikipedia. WCMemail 10:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
[119] Any chance we could get semi-protection on these pages, he is back editing as an IP. WCMemail 15:10, 5 June 2016 (UTC) (Reported at WP:RFPP} WCMemail 15:26, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Odd IP address switching
| (non-admin closure) Problem solved. Feel free to undo this closure if there are any other problems. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 02:03, 6 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I've been doing some work on Draft:Big Star (horse). The horse is definitely notable and this is an article we'd like to have in the horse project, but it wasn't written in encyclopedic style. (I think the creator speaks English as a second language, especially since the horse was born in the Netherlands.) The draft was created by an IP who edited it multiple times from the same address. However, several different IPs are now editing it and one nominated it for speedy a while ago, which I undid because there is nothing offensive or against the rules there. It does still need a few refs, but it doesn't meet the criteria for speedy, and if it was deleted it would just mean a lot of work for somebody (probably me) writing it again. I can't figure out if these IPs are different people or one person switching addresses. White Arabian Filly Neigh 15:25, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- The IPs are in the same country and belong to the same ISP - I would say they are the same user with an unavoidably dynamic IP address. If you're willing to persevere with the article we don't need to consider G7. It seems to be an import from fr:Big Star (cheval). -- zzuuzz (talk) 15:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hi, I think the IPs probably all belong to the same editor. The first edits were with IPv4 and the IP in question belongs to Orange in France. The next edits are to various IPv6 addresses. Although there are a few different IPs, they are all in the same /64 subnet, suggesting it's quite likely it's sticky /64 subnet and all someone editing from the same LAN segment, probably even the same computer (even if there nominally could be a very very large number of different computers in that LAN segment each with their own IPv6 address). This may be a bit confusing, but for a typical home user situation, it means that all those IPs are very likely one (or possibly more) computers connected to the same home router, in other words basically IPs belonging to the same /64 are often best treated very similar to a single IPv4 address. These IPs also belong to Orange in France suggesting there's a good chance it's the same as the person earlier using IPv4. Nil Einne (talk) 16:06, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's very likely to be the same user but I see nothing here requiring admin attention. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 16:24, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I posted because I was unsure if the UPs were the same person. If they weren't, the G7 tag seemed like a tricky form of vandalism. I'm going to continue working on the article. White Arabian Filly Neigh 21:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Slanderous (non-emergency) personal attack
| I have no comment on the merits of the allegations, but I do agree that Afterwriting needs to take this to WP:SPI or drop it. Jujutsuan, it's a good idea, no matter what the context, to avoid legalistic words like slander, slanderous, libel, etc. They have some relevance in the outside world, but on Wikipedia, allegations of "fabrication" and "falsely" are more than sufficient.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:12, 6 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User Afterwriting has falsely accused me of sockpuppetry, using "evidence" that is a blatant fabrication. (See the talk page thread here. All the relevant information, including the accusation and my rebuttal, is laid out there.). He has also made repeated disparaging remarks regarding an alleged "obsession" of mine and pejorative word-play on my former username (Crusadestudent, which was repeatedly turned into "the Crusader", even after I expressed my offense at that moniker), and has made no effort to extend good faith. But of course the sockpuppetry fabrication is the more serious problem. Thank you for your attention. Jujutsuan (talk contribs) 06:25, 6 June 2016 (UTC) Edited 13:00, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- There is no "blatant fabrication" on my part. I consider the evidence to be very strong. And as for "disparaging remarks" it isn't clever for the pot to call the kettle black. User:Jujutsuan has been a highly disruptive and problematic editor on numerous articles for some weeks by unilaterally making many contentious POV changes to article names and content. Only by me and others reverting many of these changes has he started to begin discussing things instead of always asserting his POV. Afterwriting (talk) 06:43, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- You just shot your argument in the foot. I have been receptive to criticism. But not to your repeated name-calling. Notice my switch from BOLD moves to RMs, except where it's obviously uncontroversial? (And many of my RMs—no, most—have been successful, or at least come away with several supporting votes.) What you call POV, I have often called NPOV, and vice versa. That's a disagreement between us, nothing more. And yes, your purported "identical edit summaries" were outright fabricated, as I have shown on my talk page. They were not in fact the same, but instead paraphrased when the other user and I made similar edits. You couldn't even get your accusation right. Jujutsuan (talk contribs) 06:51, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Afterwriting: If you really believe that Jujutsuan is a sockpuppet, please make a formal report at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations. OldTraffordLover (talk) 06:57, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- As one of the editors that helped Jujutsuan file his unblock request, he/she has been fairly responsive to criticism. Just file an SPI, and stop accusing him. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 12:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Jujutsuan: I am very disappointed to post this here, but my patience is wearing thin. Afterwriting is one of the most diligent, bias-free editors I've encountered in Wikipedia, and to suggest otherwise is baseless. He is not personally attacking you, except to the extent you seem personally vested in the edits you propose, which have been disruptive to the project. I've tried gently coaching you, hoping to direct you towards a more productive path, but this is becoming increasingly frustrating. I have repeatedly warned you that the Catholic/Roman Catholic issue is a minefield, yet you keep poking this beehive, and keep getting angry when you're stung. Proposing edits that have been rejected in the past, and lashing out at those oppose them, is only going to result in more accusations of sock-puppetry and other rules violation. Lashing out at those who accuse you is only going to push you closer to getting banned. If you want to become a productive, respected editor, you need to learn to pick your battles, and choose less controversial edits to pursue. --Zfish118⋉talk 13:32, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
User:94.166.184.237
| (non-admin closure) IP blocked for vandalism for 31 hours by Widr -- samtar talk or stalk 12:00, 6 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:94.166.184.237 has blanked Malian parliamentary election, 2013 twice and has written me an f word [120].Xx236 (talk) 11:49, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
He has later blanked Earth Abides.Xx236 (talk) 11:53, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Tendentious SPA editing on a single article by a user over several months
Hi. I would like to invite attention to the wikipedia article on the USCIRF, and the conduct of the user Evwv2015 vis-a-vis his edits therein. This user was created on March 24, 2016 [121]. As his contribution history clearly indicates, he is an SPA, possibly an advocate for the organization that is the subject of the wiki article. His first edits, in violation of WP:NPOV, involved removing a significant chunk of sourced content that critiqued the subject [122] without any attempt at consensus building on the talk page. This went unnoticed by the broader wikipedia editing community. Subsequent edits were uncontroversial, but sporadic, and only restricted to removing material perceived to be critical to the subject. The article remained unedited for months until I re-inserted [123] the sourced content (while keeping out any uncited or biased wordings that were introduced by other ips such as this [124]) that this user had also removed. Shortly thereafter, the user reverted the changes with no attempt at reasoning or discussion [125] using false and misleading edit summaries to justify his edits to casual vandalism monitors and bots. I request experienced editors to look into this matter, and an investigation into the activities of this user, and, if necessary, administrator intervention and enforcement of suitable preventative measures. 146.232.151.17 (talk) 05:41, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Please open a talk page discussion about that content and sourcing. I have advised them to do the same. Some of the sources are scholarly articles but others may be less reliable or are now deadlinks, so revisiting the sources is justified even if bulk removal is not. Fences&Windows 09:17, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
RFC disruption
It's hard to think an RFC remains valid after the concerted and constant disruption of it by User:CFCF: [126], [127][128]. —Kww(talk) 01:38, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- All of these edits were made early on the 25th. I question how much of an impact it had on the RFC if it took almost six days to report nor why the entire RFC should be invaladated.--67.68.163.254 (talk) 04:59, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- It was reported on ANI and only argued amongst some of the people from the RfC. The edits above look like CFCF was removing people's talk message, but was not. Beetstra, Hasteur and CFCF were moving messages. CFCF kept reverting the other two's moves. Not sure who is or isn't "right". Bgwhite (talk) 05:25, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Bgwhite:
Beetstra, Hasteur and CFCF were moving messages. CFCF kept reverting the other two's moves.
- CFCF was moving the messages, Hasteur and I kept reverting their moves. --Dirk BeetstraT C 05:35, 31 May 2016 (UTC)- The whole RfC is kind of a mess. It takes the form of "This thing is great, but it's on the blacklist. Should we take it off? PS: other discussion links" without giving any of the reasons it remained blacklisted after three other RfCs. So of course it got a bunch of support votes out of the gate. People responded to votes on both sides, but CFCF opted to only remove questions directed at support votes to a separate section. It may well have been in good faith, but it's also disruptive in that those comments are now completely out of context, with no attempt made to restore context or even fix the syntax, making them somewhat unreadable and separated from everything else. Meanwhile the threads responding to the oppose votes are enormous. I don't think there's any admin action that needs to be taken, but I do question whether a consensus from this messy RfC can really take the place of the three before it. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:44, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Bgwhite:
- It was reported on ANI and only argued amongst some of the people from the RfC. The edits above look like CFCF was removing people's talk message, but was not. Beetstra, Hasteur and CFCF were moving messages. CFCF kept reverting the other two's moves. Not sure who is or isn't "right". Bgwhite (talk) 05:25, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- With almost a 3-1 Support-oppose, anyone who closes that other than removing it from the blacklist had better have a cast iron reason for doing so. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:54, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- In three hours time one user chose to comment on nearly each and every support vote — often repeating the same or at least similar arguments to different people. I found this was also counter to the original intent of the RFC which specified:
- add a numbered entry under appropriate section like
# short comment. --~~~~, or simply# --~~~~.- (optional) further discussion can be added under the Discussion section.
- As such I believe I was acting in the interest of promoting discussion, and discussion occurred quite extensively in the new section I had created.
- More than a day later the same user now chose to move this commentary and discussion back into the vote section: [131]
- This edit impacted more than 2.5x more text and moved substantially more editors comments. The rational was that the previous move had influenced the commentary and was opposed to WP:TPO — not considering that this edit changed far more editors comments.
- I objected to this assertion, moving it back to the discussion section. I also stated that the only reason I moved the text in the first place was because it was a massive addition during a very limited time — which I interpreted to go against the formalities outlined for the RFC (not by me) and how discussion had occurred previously.
- It was then objected that this was a form of cleansing the Support section for criticism, and that this was not neutral. This was in part because discussion continued to bloom in the oppose section after my first move (despite the instructions of the RFC). I expressed my full support of moving discussion out of the oppose-section as well [132], with the proviso that Beetstra had voted twice and that I did not want to change the meaning of this — so it might be best if he/she move this discussion instead.
- The situation amounted to: damned if you do, damned if you don't — so I chose to leave it up to the editors who opposed the motion to move out that discussion. I understand that this may have been perceived as wishing to impact the outcome — but in light of my willingness to move even the Oppose section to comply with the set instructions I do not believe it has been disruptive.
- Neither do I think this has adversely impacted the RFC — the rationale and discussion is clear for all who visit the page. Only if you contend that users base their support or opposition only upon the number of others support/oppose has it made an impact. Carl Fredik 💌 📧 17:39, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- I think it's pretty clear that most of the attendee's based their !votes on the "supports" above that it falsely appeared no one had taken the time or effort to refute.—Kww(talk) 02:31, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- @CFCF: - "what I found to be disruptive edits" - yet again such language from you. If you found them disruptive you either could have come to me first (you did not even bother to tell me afterwards), or you could have brought it to attention of uninvolved editors. That in combination with ad hominim remarks, bolded responses if people argue against your points .. --Dirk BeetstraT C 09:37, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- Or, alternatively, Dirk, you have certainly been here long enough to know that WP:BLUDGEONING all the opponents in a debate is regarded as disruptive, and indeed, was contrary to the explicit instruction of the RFC? Can we expect some restraint from mature people, or do we have to appoint a moderator to every bloody RFC? While I acknowledge S Marshall's comment below that CFCF's judgment is not always perfect, in this matter I would say he was in the right. No such user (talk) 11:00, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I rest my case .. Well analysed. --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:17, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Or, alternatively, Dirk, you have certainly been here long enough to know that WP:BLUDGEONING all the opponents in a debate is regarded as disruptive, and indeed, was contrary to the explicit instruction of the RFC? Can we expect some restraint from mature people, or do we have to appoint a moderator to every bloody RFC? While I acknowledge S Marshall's comment below that CFCF's judgment is not always perfect, in this matter I would say he was in the right. No such user (talk) 11:00, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- @CFCF: - "what I found to be disruptive edits" - yet again such language from you. If you found them disruptive you either could have come to me first (you did not even bother to tell me afterwards), or you could have brought it to attention of uninvolved editors. That in combination with ad hominim remarks, bolded responses if people argue against your points .. --Dirk BeetstraT C 09:37, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- I think it's pretty clear that most of the attendee's based their !votes on the "supports" above that it falsely appeared no one had taken the time or effort to refute.—Kww(talk) 02:31, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've clasxhed with CFCF in the past over very similar behaviour directed at me. I feel that CFCF does have a history of managing other people's talk page contributions while involved. My sense is that he's well-intentioned, but he has an awful lot of faith in his own judgment and not much in other people's, which makes him behave inappropriately. No comment on this particular case.—S Marshall T/C 17:06, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Edit warring and disruptive editing by IP
An IP editor who clearly has experience editing Wikipedia (they are familiar with the WP:MOS [133]), has been edit warring over Port Washington, Wisconsin for a couple days, making WP:POINTy edits like this one [134] by adding "former" to every entry in the notable people list, and repeatedly blanking the shared IP template from IP talk pages in violation of WP:REMOVED. Notices to stop edit warring were removed with comment summaries like "obtuse comment by disruptive editor" [135]. They have gone on to edit war at their own talk page over the Shared IP template: 1 [136], 2 [137], 3 [138], 4 [139] 5 [140]. And on and on. The same person has edited with three IPs in the past two days. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 14:48, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Non-admin Comment: @GigglesnortHotel and 32.218.152.198: There is no diff here or edit from this user's contributions that convince me they are vandalising, and you are just as equally to blame for edit warring as the IP editor as you didn't engage in discussion. The POINTy edit you cited strikes me as adding information to an article constructively, correct me if I'm wrong. Edit warring over an IP template of all things instead of dropping it shows a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality on your part. Unless you provide more
evidencediffs to show this editor is clearly disruptive, I'd suggest you just forget about this. All I see is a legitimate editor being bitten here. -NottNott talk Reply with {{re}} 15:07, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- It was not constructively adding information. Please take a few more minutes to review edits before commenting. There was a content dispute regarding whether someone who died over 100 years ago should be referred to as a "former" acting mayor of a town [141], [142]. His response was an obviously WP:POINTy edit, adding "former" to nearly every entry [143]. In any case, WP:REMOVED specifically says that Shared IP templates may not be removed from IP talk pages and he/she repeatedly deleted those with disruptive edit summaries like "obtuse" and "harassment". What began as a simple content disagreement was turned into a full on edit war by the IP, who also makes ALL CAPS edit summaries like these [144], [145]. He's now gone on to abusively restore deleted comments to my own talk page [146]. This is pretty clearly a behavioral problem and not mine. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 15:18, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- @GigglesnortHotel: That's a similar but different IP, hence why I didn't see it. In this case we've got:
- 32.218.37.93 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
- 32.218.152.198 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
- 32.218.47.22 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
- And a third IP I can't find (do add it) involved in the report. With the extra context given, this AN/I seems much more legitimate. As it stands, I could still recommend discussing this with the IP if you haven't done so already - if they are not put off by messages like this by you, you could solve this content dispute. -NottNotttalkReply with {{re}} 15:37, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- IP added. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 17:14, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- What vandalism do you see in these edits? Or these? I have a dynamic IP created by my ISP (not SNET), which is perfectly legitimate. Why is that a problem? On the other hand, it looks to me like GigglesnortHotel has removed useful information, been uncivil, added unsourced information, edit warred, and harassed another editor. I made one revert to his use of the word "former" to refer to a dead person: [147] and one revert to his removal of information: [148]. Who's the disruptive editor? 32.218.152.198 (talk) 16:04, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Vandalism was not mentioned in this report by anyone except you. Why don't you log into your account to edit? GigglesnortHotel (talk) 17:11, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- @GigglesnortHotel: That's a similar but different IP, hence why I didn't see it. In this case we've got:
- It was not constructively adding information. Please take a few more minutes to review edits before commenting. There was a content dispute regarding whether someone who died over 100 years ago should be referred to as a "former" acting mayor of a town [141], [142]. His response was an obviously WP:POINTy edit, adding "former" to nearly every entry [143]. In any case, WP:REMOVED specifically says that Shared IP templates may not be removed from IP talk pages and he/she repeatedly deleted those with disruptive edit summaries like "obtuse" and "harassment". What began as a simple content disagreement was turned into a full on edit war by the IP, who also makes ALL CAPS edit summaries like these [144], [145]. He's now gone on to abusively restore deleted comments to my own talk page [146]. This is pretty clearly a behavioral problem and not mine. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 15:18, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
32.218 is a long term and highly productive editor of Wisconsin social geography articles and I have worked with him (?) numerous times. In case you didn't realize it, GigglesnortHotel, there is no requirement to register here. Perhaps if you would have done what you were supposed to do and started a conversation on the article talk page, has behavior wouldn't have escalated to being pointy. How do you suppose you can communicate with an editor that uses a dynamic IP unless you do it at the article talk? 32.218....that was a bit out of line. Ggsh, remember that whether we use a silly name like yours and mine, or a real name like many or whether your handle here is a randomly changing number, we are all people and a civil discussion is most often all that is needed to resolve a problem. I'll be happy to join a conversation at the article talk page and perhaps with three calmer folks this solves easily. John from Idegon (talk) 07:28, 3 June 2016 (UTC) John from Idegon (talk) 07:30, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- So because we had a dispute, it's ok for him to violate WP:POINT, edit war, and delete the Shared IP template from IP talk pages in violation of WP:REMOVED? It's good to know we are allowed to violate policies when someone makes an edit we don't like or we have a disagreement with someone, I'll have to remember that. Anyway, obviously nobody is going to do anything about this, so just let the thread archive. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 13:59, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Not sure what to do about tenacious legal claimant at Talk:The Matrix
There's someone who identifies as Sophia Stewart who claims to be the owner of The Matrix franchise following one or more lawsuits. The article about her was deleted at AfD in 2009, and it has been added to The Matrix article and on the talk page many, many times (as far back as 2003 -- see multiple sections in each of Archive 1, Archive 2 and Archive 4).
Today another user, seemingly claiming to be Stewart, is back (User:Neuroelectronic). I responded by moving the section down, adding the gist of the responses it has received in the past, and hatting it. It looks like he/she has doubled down and restored it to the top of the page.
Normally in such a case I'd probably start a conversation explaining relevant Wikipedia policies (WP:RS and WP:WEIGHT, for example), but this isn't a user trying to improve the article -- it's either Stewart making actual legal claims, a user pushing a POV, ...or a troll spreading a meme. Per the latter, you see, Snopes and Time Magazine are two of many sources which have identified this story as bunkum. But those sources, the user says, are outdated, and there has actually been a more recent legal judgment in Stewart's favor. The links he/she provided to verify the claims are still terrible, as they are every time (one hosted at innersites.com and one at matrixterminator.com), but if there are actual legal claims being made here (regardless of merit), I'd prefer not to engage further.
So how should a claim like this be handled? Should the user be referred elsewhere and the talk page comments left intact? Should the comments be removed and the account reported to ARV as a promotion-only account, etc. I'm hoping to get a sense of what should happen, as well, when this user inevitably comes back. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 01:54, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- The user claims it's a separate ruling made after the publication of the Time piece, et al. (in 2014). But, again, the links for that ruling are to documents hosted on obviously unreliable sources. Personally, if I had just won $3,500,000,000 because I own the Matrix franchise, I wouldn't be desperate for that information to appear in the Wikipedia article, but that's just me. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 03:25, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- one thing that makes no sense if that the user also claimed the judge ruled that they had the rights to the Terminator franchise in 2014 but Terminator Genisys premiered in June 2015. There certainly would have been some coverage about the ruling since it clearly would have affected the release of Genisys.--67.68.163.254 (talk) 05:13, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- Also Snopes was last updated in 2015. One would presume this means no good info on this alleged 2014 victory had reached the author then. Really even without Terminator Genisys and the contractual negotiations beforehand which were well covered, it's not plausible that no RS noticed a $3.5 billion lawsuit which handed over the rights of two of the most notable franchises of all time. Even if this really is the case, it surely can't be hard to find RS such as the author of Snopes to cover it. After all, someone who won a $3.5 billion lawsuit is someone who would have it much easier to get people to listen. Given the history here, until and unless there actually are RS discussing the recent victory, it's fine to shut down any discussion based on claims not supported by RS, regardless of whether these RS are allegedly outdated. Nil Einne (talk) 05:40, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- Incidentally, even if it's true that the editor being discusssed won a court judgement against their former attorney due to breach of contract, this little relevance to either the Matrix or Terminator articles. Note that the editor is apparently using wikipedia in court cases which while understandably being rejected, is another sign that great caution needs to be taken and of a strong COI [149]Nil Einne (talk) 06:38, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd echo Nil's concerns. In some disputes, having information favoring one side in Wikipedia can be seen as evidence in favor of that party. It's dangerous to have content in an article being introduced as fact in a litigation or other dispute resolution. We know that Wikipedia can't be used as a reliable source but in the offline world, a party could make a claim that whatever is written in a Wikipedia article is 100% accurate. Liz Read! Talk! 07:10, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- This slightly duplicates my second comment as I planned to submit it as an edit but took too long & it had already been responded to. I've tried to reduce duplication but it's difficult to completely remove it.
It seems there are two seperate issues here. One is the claim the named person won some claim relating to legal rights over the two franchises along with $3.5 billion. I see zero real evidence for this. (Someone claiming I won "X" is not evidence.)
The second is the claim they won a judgement against their former attorney due to breach of contract. There's a link to an alleged court judgement on an unreliable site [150]. Beyond the fact it's impossible to verify that this document is genuine and hasn't been modified, it actually has little relevance to either the Matrix or Terminator articles. It's a default judgement because the person they were suing never responded, perhaps because they were dead. As far as I can tell, there wasn't any real consideration of whether the copyright claim had any merit or could have been won. Especially interesting is that the court didn't award any damages on the possibility they could have won the case since Hollywood accounting meant both franchices lost money. The money they were allegedly awarded (and I wouldn't be particularly surprised if the document is genuine) was based on the fees and judgements against them as a result of their earlier failed court case and incurred for the new court case.
I don't see any reason to think the judge in this case against the former attorney would have any involvement in any new court case to win rights over the franchise. Nor is there any mention of such in the case against the former attorney. (Actually I get the feeling from reading the judgement that the judge involved would much rather they were Judge Judy and could just kick people out of their court at their own whim.) So there's even more reason to disbelieve this claim of a $3.5 billion judgement convering "ownership" from the same judge based on the very sources being presented.
- Incidentally, even if it's true that the editor being discusssed won a court judgement against their former attorney due to breach of contract, this little relevance to either the Matrix or Terminator articles. Note that the editor is apparently using wikipedia in court cases which while understandably being rejected, is another sign that great caution needs to be taken and of a strong COI [149]Nil Einne (talk) 06:38, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- Also Snopes was last updated in 2015. One would presume this means no good info on this alleged 2014 victory had reached the author then. Really even without Terminator Genisys and the contractual negotiations beforehand which were well covered, it's not plausible that no RS noticed a $3.5 billion lawsuit which handed over the rights of two of the most notable franchises of all time. Even if this really is the case, it surely can't be hard to find RS such as the author of Snopes to cover it. After all, someone who won a $3.5 billion lawsuit is someone who would have it much easier to get people to listen. Given the history here, until and unless there actually are RS discussing the recent victory, it's fine to shut down any discussion based on claims not supported by RS, regardless of whether these RS are allegedly outdated. Nil Einne (talk) 05:40, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- one thing that makes no sense if that the user also claimed the judge ruled that they had the rights to the Terminator franchise in 2014 but Terminator Genisys premiered in June 2015. There certainly would have been some coverage about the ruling since it clearly would have affected the release of Genisys.--67.68.163.254 (talk) 05:13, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- The user claims it's a separate ruling made after the publication of the Time piece, et al. (in 2014). But, again, the links for that ruling are to documents hosted on obviously unreliable sources. Personally, if I had just won $3,500,000,000 because I own the Matrix franchise, I wouldn't be desperate for that information to appear in the Wikipedia article, but that's just me. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 03:25, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Ok, so I read the only one that seems to award her anything, which Nil Einne sounds to have also read. Summary: Stewart sued Hollywood herself, someone offered legal services, both parties acted incompetently, but the lawyer is a lawyer so isn't allowed to act incompetently. Legal fees and other stuff awarded. The only relevant part for us, it seems, is where it talks about the copyright claims, and as Nil Einne notes it doesn't really get into the merits of the case, as far as I can see -- it just looks at it closely enough to see that her numbers (pulled from imdb and an unattributed email) were way too high and nothing can actually be awarded so those claims about what shouldacoulda if the lawyer was competent are denied. ...And as that's the one the user linked to this time -- as the most up-to-date evidence backing the claims on the talk page -- it seems we can conclude bunkum indeed.
It may well be that Stewart got screwed out of a few bucks, if the Wachowskis, et al. had purchased the story up front, and if The Matrix was indeed based on it, but we have a serious failure of WP:V here.
Would it be inappropriate to add a FAQ-style talk page banner about this, advising to remove the content immediately and explaining why? That's sort of a content issue that should get consensus at the article talk page, but I'd like to get opinions here, too, because it's also about the conduct of one or more users who repeatedly bring this up with different accounts. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:37, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- Rhododendrites - That's not a bad idea. In the end, the "older" sources (TIME and Snopes) say that nothing happened, and the "court document" to me is irrelevant, since it's hosted on a non-government domain and we can't verify its authenticity. Really, it seems like none of this content is article-worthy. We just have to remember that it's about verifiability, not truth. The account has a clear COI and shouldn't be touching the article. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 16:45, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- I find the edits a bit bizarre. The user had about 40 edits between 2009 and 2014, with none to The Matrix. Now after two years they return and make this odd claim. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 19:53, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- The content issue is not something for ANI. In terms of their behavior, I don't see a problem yet. We just ignore what people say about who they are in the real world, and all that matters is the sources they bring. So tell them "nobody on the internet knows you are a dog" and ignore their future claims of RW identity. The sources are no good - we need very reliable sources for an extraordinary claim like this (which would surely covered by independent reliable sources if it were real) - so the sources are not good enough; just explain why. Do that a couple times, then WP:SHUN. It they start to WP:BLUDGEON or edit war, that is actionable behavior for an ANI thread. I would say there is nothing to do here now, as this account has not made that many talk comments yet. Jytdog (talk) 05:40, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
User:SM-Mara - whitewashing and legal threats
It's all in the recent history of the article If Americans Knew - SM-Mara (talk · contribs) is making legal threats (the repeated use of the words "potentially defamatory" when the edits in question are no such thing) and is systematically removing all references to the fact that Alison Weir has been criticized for her recommendation of books by Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazis such as "Israel Shamir" and Gilad Atzmon. SM-Mara has already been called out for their partiality, which is quite apparent through their edits, and seems to be either Weir herself or one of her minions. Thank you for looking into the matter. --Edelseider (talk) 15:42, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Saying something is "potentially defamatory" is not a legal threat. It is expressing a concern about our content. Do you have any diffs to other comments you think may be legal threats, or is this what you meant?
- No comment on other concerns brought up here. HighInBC 15:44, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- There may be a COI here that needs to be addressed, but like HighInBC I don't see the legal threat. If someone is removing content about a living person while expressing concerns that it is potentially defamatory, per WP:BLP they should not be reverted unless there is an explicit consensus to include that content. No one should be edit warring to reintroduce potentially BLP-violating content. -- Ed (Edgar181) 15:52, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) Edelseider: You write "You should talk" on SM-Mara's talk page. They did. SM-Mara may have legitimate concerns, after all. COI or no COI. Just saying... Kleuske (talk) 15:55, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- (after edit conflict) With all due respect, where I come from, defamation is susceptible to have legal consequences, and rightly so if it is indeed slanderous or libellous (which is not the case here, so this is an abuse of that term anyway). Of course, I see User:HighInBC's point, but one can also see the point of edits like these. --Edelseider (talk) 15:59, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hello, I apologize in advance for probably not formatting this correctly.
- I posted my concerns on the talk page of the article If Americans Knew. Some editors seem to be swarming to get quotations included that amount to extreme criticism of a living person without including any response or refutation.
- The first quote in question states that an article by If Americans Knew's founder made unsubstantiated and unsupported claims and argued for false facts without evidence. In fact, a leading expert in the field and others support the facts explored. It seems to me that if this criticism of one of the founders many articles is going to be included, the many countering viewpoints/quotes must be included. This seems to me to be excessive digression in the article, but, either way, I feel it's completely inappropriate to include the criticism without balance.
- The second quote is from a marginal writer making extreme accusations against Weir, as well as accusations about other authors, based solely on the source's assertion -- and the edits don't offer any further support of the accusations or any response from or on behalf of those authors. If these types of accusations against both Weir and other authors are going to be included, it seems to me that some kind of response must be included.
- These quotes appear potentially defamatory against a living person. (My understanding is that even quoting or republishing potentially defamatory material is potentially defamatory itself.) At the minimum, the spirit of fairness requires that a response or counter viewpoint be given. I don't say that to make some kind of threats, and I think it should be a legitimate topic for discussion.
- The person who posted this about me has made several personal accusations to me. It seems to me we should be talking about edits, citations and facts, not making personal accusations. I'm not very experienced, but I'm proud of trying to be very professional in my edits and excited to be learning how to be part of wikipedia. However, the swarming and personal attacks are quite intimidating.
- @Edelseider and SM-Mara: Please note that both articles - Alison Weir (activist) and If Americans Knew - are now under arbitration-related sanctions. This means that:
- "All IP editors, accounts with fewer than 500 edits, and accounts with less than 30 days tenure are prohibited from editing any page that could be reasonably construed as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict." This applies mainly to SM-Mara, who has under 500 edits.
- "All articles related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, broadly construed, are under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period). When in doubt, assume it is related."
- "This article and its editors are subject to Wikipedia's general sanctions: All Arab-Israeli conflict-related pages, broadly interpreted, are placed under discretionary sanctions. Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning."
- Thank you, GABgab 17:19, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Edit conflict when I went to post my notice below, but since it was written I posted it anyway. Thanks @GAB for posting the terms in full. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 17:29, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- (ec)Arbitration Enforcement applies here. The articles If Americans Knew and Alison Weir (activist) clearly fall within the terms of the ArbCom remedies in the Arab-Israeli] case. I have therefore applied Template:Arab-Israeli Arbitration Enforcement to the talk page of both articles[151][152].
- Editors may previously have been unaware of these restrictions, so I do not propose applying sanctions for actions which predate this posting. However, I urge all the editors involved to read the restrictions carefully. I am pinging SM-Mara, Edelseider, Vinsfan368, GeneralizationsAreBad as recent contributors to the articles so that they are aware of the restrictions. (Note that I haven't taken any view on whether they might have breached the restrictions; this is just a notification). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:27, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. I first got involved in wikipedia when I saw the super unbalanced article on this topic. I was going to complain to wikipedia, but saw that anyone can edit (astonishing concept) and so I thought that was the path to take instead (and I was actually very proud of my edits, which I put a lot of effort to, and thought were well researched and professional, and began trying to get more involved) -- but it seems on this subject matter, my first instinct was correct. What's the process to raise concerns to the editors about articles on this topic, since newcomers like me shouldn't edit them? Posting on the talk pages? That didn't seem to get much response; is there something further to do? Thanks again. (And sorry if this posts twice; thought I'd posted but don't see it.)SM-Mara (talk) 17:42, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- @SM-Mara: posting on the talk page is the best place to start. If you are unable to reach agreement with other editors, then see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution for pointers on how to resolve the dispute. Hope this helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:18, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
The person who posted this continues to make critical edits on the relevant pages, Alison Weir and If Americans Knew. Is that appropriate? SM-Mara (talk) 17:54, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- There's no moratorium on editing the article, but it is recommended to discuss on the talk page rather than revert one another (WP:BRD). GABgab 18:25, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. I had posted my concern on the talk page, but no response yet and the edit still stands. :( SM-Mara (talk) 18:28, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Did I get this right? On WP:ANI a user calls two living people "neo-Nazis" and nobody blinks? Does WP:BLP not apply here or something? nableezy - 19:48, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I removed them as BLP violations (from your posting at the BLP noticeboard). No opinion on this thread, however I would tend to veer away from the user who thinks its appropriate to accuse other editors of being terrorist supporters. If Edelseider reinserts them, to AE we will go. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:06, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Zalooka4 and genres
User:Zalooka4 has been adding unsourced genres to articles based on their personal interpretations, and in many cases marking the edits are minor. This is original research and they have been amply warned against this on their talk page yet continue to do so. Opencooper (talk) 19:45, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'll stop contributing then, block me if you find necessary. Zalooka4 (talk) 19:49, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Looking at their edits, one in particular, I'm not seeing much of an issue here. In Opencooper's defense though, genre warring is a very prominent issue at Wikipeida, as they are almost always put in as unsourced and are therefore, not reputable. I would suggest reading Wikipedia:Genre warrior and Wikipedia:Verifiability to get an understanding on why this type of behavior is seen as being unconstructive. Vensco (T C) 00:33, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- While one or two unsourced genre addition is innocuous, multiple additions form the bulk of their edits. In addition I and other editors have disagreed with their changes, such as categorizing Alien (film) as a horror "adventure". If an editor continues to engage in original research and still attempts to reinstate their changes, (if you look at their talk page, multiple warnings are for the same articles) it becomes quite disruptive. They either need to learn to work collaboratively and make sure their categorizations are reliably sourced, or if they're not willing to work within our community's norms then they can stop contributing as they wish. Opencooper (talk) 06:17, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- When multiple experienced editors leave warning after warning about unsubstantiated/WP:OR genre changing, it is time for some intervention, be it a mentoring, a topic ban (unlikely as this is the user's focus) or a short vacation.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 22:29, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Looking at their edits, one in particular, I'm not seeing much of an issue here. In Opencooper's defense though, genre warring is a very prominent issue at Wikipeida, as they are almost always put in as unsourced and are therefore, not reputable. I would suggest reading Wikipedia:Genre warrior and Wikipedia:Verifiability to get an understanding on why this type of behavior is seen as being unconstructive. Vensco (T C) 00:33, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Page ownership issues on Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice page
A pair of disruptive editors are subtly camouflaging page ownership abuse in the chaos of the point of view warring typical of comic book film articles.
Two editors are engaging in a clever slow motion edit war using the pretense of protecting the page from larger edit wars and trolling to hide their own point of view warring. Some of their efforts 2 protect the page are useful and welcome. This does not excuse them from using this as a smokescreen to wage their own edit war and disrupt others' good faith contributions that do not conform with their very narrow personal tastes.
Both GoneIn60 and Bignole cite consensus 4 their reverts of some good faith contributions despite having any clear votes or true consensus on the talk page. The talk page is a mess of bickering and socking. No clear consensus exists.
Both editors admit they are motivated by what they personally believe "sounds good" or their personal opinions over the movie's box office success or critical reaction. Personal preferences over how a sentence sounds is not proper justification for unilaterally reverting everyone else's stab at writing the article. Good faith attempts at refining the page or trimming the verboseness are greeted with hostility in the form of mindless templates and warnings on my IP without proper justification.They have a greater handle of process than me so I expect them 2 game the system against this complaint as the are doing with the page.Humbly I request help and resources 2 combat this elitism of the sort.
They are discouraging good faith contributions in their larger war 2 fight back point of view warring typical of comic book film pages. They are also using this chaos 2 sneakingly advance their own non-neutral points of view and page ownership wants. They are defending a right 2 paraphrase when the truth is that their "paraphrasing" is taking a source out of context and adding their own personal interpretations. It makes their paraphrase gaming a subtle WP:OR strategy. They are cleverly hiding their own 'drops-in-the-bucket', sly disruptive behavior behind the much worse 'louder' behavior of the tidal wave of trolls and socks constantly trolling the page.
Good luck with this. Wish I had the time 2 make right this article. Maybe y'all can. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.231.217 (talk) 19:44, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- You are required to let the editors know they are being discussed here when you pose a new ANI thread by leaving a message on their talk page, I have done so for you. --Cameron11598(Talk) 20:34, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- My report acumen is rusty. Thank ya 4 fixing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.231.217 (talk) 17:23, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- IP editor appears right after a sock is blocked, spouting the same argument. Interesting... --Tarage (talk) 20:39, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- What "sock?" My IP hub is heavily protected and private. There's no socking from here. There is probally meatpuppeting on the page I reported. It is slowmotion and extremely subtle 2 the point of being hard 2 prove so I declined against its inclusion in the complaint. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.231.217 (talk) 17:23, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- IP editor appears right after a sock is blocked, spouting the same argument. Interesting... --Tarage (talk) 20:39, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- My report acumen is rusty. Thank ya 4 fixing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.231.217 (talk) 17:23, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that I actually need to justify my actions and I don't think that Gone does either. If anyone looks at the talk page they will see that every edit that we have made or reverted back to has been based in part on a larger discussion about the wording of those items. This is not simply two editors willy-nilly reverting. There have been discussion and discussion on all of these points. If this IP is who they appear to be, then they were the 1 lone voice that kept making changes against consensus under the guise that it was still the same edit. Even after we explained how those edits changed the meaning of the statements. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 21:47, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- All I'm saying is, a sockpuppet saying the exact same thing you are saying gets banned, and then you appear out of the ether with the same argument and non-novice knowledge of how Wikipedia functions... and your ONLY edits are on the page where the sock was editing... I'm afraid that exhausted all potential good faith I could muster. Someone do a SPI please. --Tarage (talk) 22:37, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- For those who may not be aware, the SPI's referred to above are here. Take note of the veiled threat linked in the first discussion. I haven't submitted a new one based on this IP, as the amount of evidence to do so may be a bit lacking. It is interesting that comments so far are written in somewhat similar tone and grammar, however. Also, my response in the talk page discussion clearly illustrates the issues with the proposed edits and gives ample opportunity for the editor to explain them in more detail, so that other editors can weigh in and form a new consensus or reaffirm the current status quo. We are open to new suggestions, but the previous attempts didn't appear to be improvements IMHO. Some justification for them would be a start. --GoneIn60 (talk) 13:05, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- Your problems with other editors and their socks is not my concern. It has nothing 2 do with my complaint.To mention it here is a dodge and distraction from your own possibly disruptive behavior.If an user happens 2 take the side of a troll who had a few good points among the dozen bad points it does not mean they are in a conspiracy with the trolls against U. That you and another editor with a history of disruptiveness so quickly made these allegations in a short time spam draws suspicion of the subtle meatpuppeting I wanted 2 include sans enough evidence 2 do so effectively.
- Of the accusations against me, some sound stretched, all are simply untrue. Good to see that complaints of this kind are dismissed.You assume something about my behaviour which is not true. There was no intent on my part to pretend to be someone else or deceive someone -- something that the term socking suggests. I also find your use of terms such as 'disruptive' and 'unconstructive' on the comic book film page and my talk page 2b inflammatory when commenting on my contributions. If you can't justify your accusations as a reasonable against my claims of a very real problem of page ownership wars on the page in question then I will consider your allegations ungrounded and inflammatory ad hominem attacks. The page ownership problems are WP:DUCK if I ever saw one, typical of those expensive divisive comic book movies.
- Some of the socks you argued with were making some good points even if they were long winded and disruptive. The remedy to the bulverism you and the socks are guilty of is to accept some to accept that some reasoning is not tainted by the reasoner, some points are valid and some conclusions true, regardless of the identity and motives of the one who argues them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.231.217 (talk) 17:06, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- Let's be specific. "Other editors" and the plural "socks" all refer to one individual per the outcome of the SPI. That individual was using multiple accounts to add artificial support for his/her viewpoint in talk page discussions and article edits. That's where a lot of the "bickering" – as you put it – stemmed from. I am always open to new ideas and suggestions, because I take on the perspective that every Wikipedia article is a work in progress; they're never finalized. A glance through my contributions will show that I routinely work with other editors to achieve a working consensus. In fact, Bignole and I were at odds for a while about a particular statement in the lead (see Talk:Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice#Update). After further discussion, we were able to quickly dissolve the crisis. In this situation, you and other anonymous editors (assuming they are all different individuals), were attempting to ram proposed changes without discussion, some of which went against previously discussed outcomes. You were eventually willing to initiate one, but after the first response, you immediately escalated this to an ANI. The escalation, in my opinion, was very quick without giving the talk page a chance to work things out. --GoneIn60 (talk) 17:50, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- You brought this onto yourself. You, not me, escalted this in a way that made it impossible 2 talk it out short of mediation. You grouped my constructive edits in with all the disruptive lurking,and slapped unnecessary warnings on my IP. Assuming that I am responsible 4 all the disruptiveness on your article was your 1st mistake.I went 2 the talk page and read up on the dispute when told 2 so.That is when I noticed the WP:OWN problems.The sock(s) made a few valid points along with several bad ones. That socking is seperate than the anon socking occurring on the article itself that you were citing as justification 4 your edit war against me.Surely you can't reasonably contend that all of that is me.You are exploiting that problem of point of view trolling on the page, and a strategy of false accusations, to enforce an edit war of your own to hide your personal point of view or personal tastes in the page.I am not socking, end of story. I object 2 your efforts to straw man those with whom you do not agree.I do not have 2 have good faith over your preemptive bad faith on my IP. The burden was on you when you went down that road.
- There is much disruptive editing on your page where anon contributors are trying insert words like 'mixed' and praise for Affleck or Gadot in the lead. I welcome your efforts 2 protect wikipedia articles.That does not afford you and the editor sole discretion 2 decide how the plot section should read, for example, or every exact word in the lead.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.231.217 (talk) 19:17, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- The first flurry of edits to the lead that came through were reverted, as each one touched a part of the lead that was previously discussed on the talk page. The edit summary of the revert clearly mentions this and suggests taking it to the talk page. Despite this, you reinstated your edit (diff) without explanation. Bignole partially reverted the edit (diff), followed by a quick re-revert on your part (diff), this time with an edit summary directed at Bignole. Clearly, you were quite aware that the partial reversion of your edit wasn't being grouped together with other anonymous editors, and it shows you pay attention to edit summaries. Yet, you ignored a previous request to discuss. In addition, a significant portion of your original edits have remained in the article (diff). The fact that 100% of your proposal didn't go through is no reason to feel slighted. It is still within your power to discuss the matter further. --GoneIn60 (talk) 20:28, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- Let's be specific. "Other editors" and the plural "socks" all refer to one individual per the outcome of the SPI. That individual was using multiple accounts to add artificial support for his/her viewpoint in talk page discussions and article edits. That's where a lot of the "bickering" – as you put it – stemmed from. I am always open to new ideas and suggestions, because I take on the perspective that every Wikipedia article is a work in progress; they're never finalized. A glance through my contributions will show that I routinely work with other editors to achieve a working consensus. In fact, Bignole and I were at odds for a while about a particular statement in the lead (see Talk:Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice#Update). After further discussion, we were able to quickly dissolve the crisis. In this situation, you and other anonymous editors (assuming they are all different individuals), were attempting to ram proposed changes without discussion, some of which went against previously discussed outcomes. You were eventually willing to initiate one, but after the first response, you immediately escalated this to an ANI. The escalation, in my opinion, was very quick without giving the talk page a chance to work things out. --GoneIn60 (talk) 17:50, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- For those who may not be aware, the SPI's referred to above are here. Take note of the veiled threat linked in the first discussion. I haven't submitted a new one based on this IP, as the amount of evidence to do so may be a bit lacking. It is interesting that comments so far are written in somewhat similar tone and grammar, however. Also, my response in the talk page discussion clearly illustrates the issues with the proposed edits and gives ample opportunity for the editor to explain them in more detail, so that other editors can weigh in and form a new consensus or reaffirm the current status quo. We are open to new suggestions, but the previous attempts didn't appear to be improvements IMHO. Some justification for them would be a start. --GoneIn60 (talk) 13:05, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- 'Investigate' me then then instead of moaning here about it. I have done nothing wrong. You should make a formal inquiry b4 slipping in personal attacks and judgement. Where was the "good faith?" Rationalizing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.231.217 (talk) 18:50, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- On the issue of existing/non-existing consensus on the talkpage; consensus is not based on a vote, what appears to be the entirety of the opposition to their position is made of sockpuppet users (until you came along) and can be disregarded. In other words, consensus exists. Also, this is one hell of a quick escalation, which brings your own motives into consideration. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 22:13, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Accusations? Bring it. My neutral contributions resulted in swift and hostile retribution and admonishments on my IP by bitter editors that brought their motives in2 question. The burden is not on me 2 prove a negative, or who I am not. That's an appeal to ignorance. Not everyone who disagrees with experienced editors are socks or aliases of noob anon trolls stalking your pages. Paranoid sham-intellectual witch hunts. Consensus is not assumed on changes not discussed in the 1st place! All my changes were reversed mostly without justification.They were based on previous revisions of the page I liked better than others, or trimming that needed 2 be done. I would not be here if knee jerk warnings were not dumped on my ip!! For the extremely narrow edits we can or can not make, it is too arbitrary 2 assume we know what you are thinkng. A vote over those exact specific changes should be recorded if it 'that' disputed, or something more specific should be outlined to warn us lurkers 2 avoid embarrassment or accidental edit warring. I see several anons making changes. Many of then denied creative access to the plot section, for example, for no other reason that you don't like it 4 personal reasons.That is on you!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.231.217 (talk) 22:33, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- Y do U write like a hi 5chooler t3xting 2 her girlfriend? EEng 13:15, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Knock it off with the personal attacks against the editor. It serves no constructive purpose calling someone "a highschool girl." Move on.64.134.158.81 (talk)
- Yes, 71.170.231.217, you have a lot better chance of having what you say taken seriously if you write using standard English spelling. This isn't Facebook. BMK (talk) 21:58, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- There are better ways to constructively impart that advice to the editor. You cannot justify name-calling.It doesn't belong in this section. Maybe joke around on their talk if you must.64.134.158.81 (talk) 16:54, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Maybe the ip is a high-school girl. Which just leaves EEng's excuse...Primergrey (talk) 00:29, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- If the editor is a high school girl, then learning that different contexts require different forms of communication is a valuable lesson to be learned, and they might as well learn it here, instead of on their first important letter to a college or for a job application. BMK (talk) 03:31, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I don't give a shit who the ip is. And if, to your mind, posting on this noticeboard is similar in importance to a college or job application then there are many valuable lessons that you need to be a-learnin.Primergrey (talk) 04:57, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- BMK wasn't talking about the "importance" of various contexts, merely saying that difference contexts call for different forms of communication.
- a-learnin' has an apostrophe, since you're in that kind of mood apparently.
- EEng 05:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's cute how you two answer for each other.Primergrey (talk) 11:39, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- We're both socks of each other - didn't you know? BMK (talk) 16:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Or meatpuppets. Not joking. Intentional or not, you are adding credence to his or her complaints on the subject. Get a bedroom you two. Seriously. Why here? For what end? Moving on! 64.134.158.81 (talk) 16:54, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Well done!! You found your way to AN/I with only your second edit ever!
And I imagine it's just a gigantic coincidence that you and the 71 IP are both from Plano, Texas?BMK (talk) 17:26, 3 June 2016 (UTC)- BTW, we can't be meatpuppets because EEng has missed the last three Meatpuppets' Union meetings, so his membership has lapsed. BMK (talk) 17:24, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Har dee har har :) I'm in the midwest actually at a fast food restaurant where I work. Not sure if it's a dynamic IP address. It's an at&t WiFi. This is far from my 2nd edit. Not sure why my history hasn't shown up. I'm not anywhere near Texas. Do an SPI or checkuser if there's doubt. Happy trolling, love birds.67.41.116.241 (talk) 21:36, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- BTW, we can't be meatpuppets because EEng has missed the last three Meatpuppets' Union meetings, so his membership has lapsed. BMK (talk) 17:24, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Well done!! You found your way to AN/I with only your second edit ever!
- Or meatpuppets. Not joking. Intentional or not, you are adding credence to his or her complaints on the subject. Get a bedroom you two. Seriously. Why here? For what end? Moving on! 64.134.158.81 (talk) 16:54, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- We're both socks of each other - didn't you know? BMK (talk) 16:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's cute how you two answer for each other.Primergrey (talk) 11:39, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I don't give a shit who the ip is. And if, to your mind, posting on this noticeboard is similar in importance to a college or job application then there are many valuable lessons that you need to be a-learnin.Primergrey (talk) 04:57, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- If the editor is a high school girl, then learning that different contexts require different forms of communication is a valuable lesson to be learned, and they might as well learn it here, instead of on their first important letter to a college or for a job application. BMK (talk) 03:31, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Filo500X
| I gave this user a level 4 warning. Vanjagenije (talk) 18:25, 6 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This user always edit without source, you can check all his edits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Filo500X (no one is correct), please ban him. He cooperates with 62.252.141.251 booth are creating wrong edits for example: Scott Christie, AS Trenčín etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Svk fan (talk • contribs)
- (Non-administrator comment) You must notify users you report here, which I have done so. This is clearly stated at the top of the page. -- samtar talk or stalk 13:53, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Physical Threat by Alidas147
| User indeffed. (non-admin closure) GABgab 14:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Alidas147 Alidas made a physical threat when protesting a speedy deletion with this edit[[153]]. I don't see this as a serious threat however a threat non the less. The page has since been deleted. --VVikingTalkEdits 13:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Indef blocked. If it was meant to be a joke, they can appeal. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:05, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Louis Robles
| There is no incident. Discuss it on the article talk page. Vanjagenije (talk) 18:20, 6 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The association footballer Louis Robles' Wikipedia page states that he did not score in his loan form Gloucester City FC however this is untrue as he scored the equaliser in the last game of the season away to Lowestoft FC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.188.144.212 (talk) 17:54, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Ongoing Disruption
| BLOCKED | |
| IP blocked by Ultraexactzz for 24 hours. (non-admin closure) --Cameron11598 (Talk) 20:33, 6 June 2016 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An editor with a fairly evident POV is inserting material into a number of articles associated with conflict in the middle east. He's not taking well to being reverted. I've urged him not to edit war, both in an edit summary and on his talk page. He's not getting it. From his talk page, I can see others have warned him about the same activity. Here are some very recent diffs: [154], [155], [156], [157], [158], [159]. David in DC (talk) 20:01, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I blocked for 24 hours for that last diff - "Fuck off" in the edit summary does not confidence inspire. Not a cool down block - the disruption was going to continue - but it's possible that they'll calm down and discuss the issue once the block expires. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 20:14, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
:: @Ultraexactzz: You blocked him for one hour you may want to fix that... --Cameron11598 (Talk) 20:30, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ignore that I read the wrong block log. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 20:31, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Flat refusal by User:199.7.157.125 to engage in talk on the Macedonians (Greeks) page
| (non-admin closure): anon blocked and pending an SPI investigation, there's not much more to do. Kleuske (talk) 01:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Flat refusal by User:199.7.157.125 to engage in talk on the Macedonians (Greeks) page. See [160]. There is also a suspection of sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry which was reported on the relevant page a few days ago. here. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 23:25, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Regardless of the sockpuppetry results, the IP's belligerent attitude is clearly detrimental to efforts at improving that article. Blocked. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:37, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Note: Editor continues to hop IPs and edit war. Requesting the article in question be locked from IP edits till this dies down. --Tarage (talk) 02:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
6/6/2016
| (non-admin closure) Not an AN/I issue, just content dispute. Encouraged to continue the discussion on the article's talkpage. Vensco (T / C) 03:18, 7 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi, some user by the name Iryna Harpy has been accusing me of removing sources from the article French people this is my contribution, I removed no source https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=French_people&type=revision&diff=724048834&oldid=723747504. best regards
41.140.155.167 (talk) 23:39, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hi 41.140.155.167, it's probably better to discuss this with the other user on their talk page, or the talkpage of the article. I've notified the user of the AN/I conflict. Vensco (T/C) 23:48, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)To be fair, you did not remove any sources, you just added an unsourced claim, which Iryna Harpy (justly) removed. Reverting her and reinserting the claim without any sources to back it up, is not a good idea. A trip to WP:ANI as your third edit does not bode well. Kleuske (talk) 00:51, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)@Vensco: I'll be fair again and point out the anon did in fact notify Iryna Harpy. A tad unconventionally, but still... Kleuske (talk) 00:56, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but did anyone actually look at the edit I reverted. Aside from there being no edit summary, where did the text
"... descendants of pre-indo European people that lived in western France which corresponds today to Pays de la Loire and Poitou-Charente as well as Gauls and Belgae..."
come from? And this was brought straight to the ANI with a notification on my page, but no attempts to discuss the WP:RS? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:53, 7 June 2016 (UTC)- @Iryna Harpy: Yeah, this was quite honestly a hasty AN/I report from the IP, which overall, is highly discouraged. Closing discussion because this is obviously not an AN/I issue, and it should clearly be taken to the article's talkpage... Vensco (T / C) 03:18, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but did anyone actually look at the edit I reverted. Aside from there being no edit summary, where did the text
- Hi 41.140.155.167, it's probably better to discuss this with the other user on their talk page, or the talkpage of the article. I've notified the user of the AN/I conflict. Vensco (T/C) 23:48, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Disruptive IP user at John Aravosis
| (non-admin closure) IP has been given a final warning. It has been two (2) days since they last edited. If they continue to vandalize once more, please report them to WP:AIV. Vensco (T / C) 03:37, 7 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An anonymous editor at 73.8.233.238 keeps adding the same isolated blurb: "He claims to be unable to remember whether he supported the Iraq War."[1][2] to the lead paragraph of the bio of John Aravosis. It is not connected to anything in the rest of the bio, and this user doesn't want to do anything more than to simply keep adding it. He has also, apparently, harassed some other user whom he suspects of being John Aravosis: [161]. Would some administrator kindly block the address? Motsebboh (talk) 01:16, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
References
- (Non-administrator comment) I just reverted their most recent edit and gave them a final warning, as this is clearly not encyclopedic. Vensco (T/C) 01:29, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Vandal IP: 190.100.19.80
| (non-admin closure) IP blocked for 1 month by admin, Drmies. Vensco (T / C) 03:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This IP who kept vandalizing the Picarones article was blocked twice by Admin Materialscientist as reported by user Marek69 since my last message to him. Well, he's back, and still vandalizing. He keeps making vandalizing edits to the same article as seen in his edit history and I am certain he seems to be a WP:SPA, negatively affecting the article. I am certain he is not willing to contribute any positive changes to Wikipedia and unless he's not blocked indefinitely, he will continue with his vandalism until the end of time. (N0n3up (talk) 02:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC))
Francis Schonken's disruptive conduct is preventing content creation on Orgelbüchlein
| 1RR RESTRICTION | |
| This discussion has gone on with seemingly no end in sight, and valid arguments have been placed on both sides, with suggestions of how to break the logjam. No possible policy could ever dictate or mandate a choice of a particular source provided it clears the general guidelines for being more or less trustworthy at being factually correct and neutral. (Even the greatest factual works may contain errors). I see only one remedy that has obtained a broad consensus, which is this : Francis Schonken is restricted to one revert per page in any calendar month. The restriction is to last 6 months and applies to all pages except his own user and user talk pages. Some editors, notably BrownHairedGirl have argued that is unnecessarily singling out Francis for punishment and suggested an alternative of a broad 1RR for the topic of Bach's sacred music, but the equally valid counter-argument was made that this would be too easy to game and hard to police. I hope that Francis will respect the restriction and look forward to it being lifted in six months' time. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:36, 7 June 2016 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There are several articles on the organ music of J.S. Bach and G.F. Handel that I have created. I created the articles Canonic Variations on "Vom Himmel hoch da komm' ich her", Clavier-Übung_III, Great Eighteen Chorale Preludes, Handel organ concertos Op. 7 and Handel organ concertos Op. 4 amongst others. Since 2012 I have intermittently been working on Orgelbüchlein (OB), a collection of 46 chorale preludes for organ by Bach. These are musical compositions based on Lutheran hymns which Bach intended for 4 purposes: church services, a treatise on composition, a religious statement and a pedagogical manual. Thus religion plays a fundamental part in the work; and these compositions are part of the standard church repertoire. There are two standard texts on OB: one by Peter Williams (Cambridge University Press); and one by Russell Stinson (Oxford University Press), with 250 pages between them on OB. The writers are both organists (as am I). I have completed one fifth of the descriptions of the chorale preludes. Each involves musical quotations, a midi file in lilypond giving an audio version of the piece, part of the text of the hymn, North German images to illustrate the liturgical significance of the piece and a musical analysis. It is a rather slow and painstaking process adding new chorale preludes.
Francis Schonken has recently arrived on the scene. He appears to have an intense dislike of the fact that the pieces chart the liturgical year and have liturgical significance. He has been claiming that the article is POV pushing becauase of HEDOESNTLIKEIT. He does not feel he has to make any reference to the two main sources when discussing the article: just his own prejudices. He has attempted to add a small of content by copy-pasting from outdated sources (by Charles Sanford Terry (historian), a bio that I created) and duplicating content already in the article.
At the moment as I am busy adding content in a significant way, he has does everything possible to interrupt that content creation. Each chorale prelude requires preparation and thought. It cannot be rushed. Francis Schonken is aware that I was hospitalised last week as an emergency; and probably is aware that I have not fully recovered. Yet he has decided to create an impossible and toxic editing environment: in that environment he refuses to discuss the sources and simply reiterates his prejudices about religion and makes absurd statements about POV-pushing. The musical iconography in Bach's sacred music is a large part of Bach scholarship, even if Francis Schonken dislikes that. His likes and dislikes should not enter into the picture: the aim of Wikipedia is just to summarise the best possible sources, which is what I do.
At the moment, if I take a three or four hour break between editing chorale preludes, he comes back to vandalise the article; while I am in full flow but recuperating. He mostly removes content, including musical quotation. I am busy adding content for the 37 remaining chorale preludes. In the two sources Williams and Stinson, that can mean there are 3 to 5 pages to summarise, often involving extra material from elsewhere. Francis Schonken want to prevent that editing and, so it seems, frighten me away from the article.
He is disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. Please could he be topic banned from this article while it is being created?
His unwillingness to discuss sources shows extreme bad faith on his part. It runs completely counter to the way Wikipedia articles are written. He has played the same game of harassment on other editors (e.g. Gerda Arendt). As far as I am concerned, if doesn't want to look at the sources or doesn't have access to them, he should not be editing the article and certainly should not be preventing the main person responsible for the article completing its creation. Of course no article is in a finished state, but in this case the basic structure of the article has been clear from the outset. It is similar to the other articles on organ works by Bach and Handel that I have created; although each has its special flavour. Mathsci (talk) 22:06, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Francis Schonken has now stated that using the two main sources (Stinson and Williams) to write the article is unacceptable. He says that relying on these as the main sources is POV-pushing. But on the other hand he has not proposed any other comparable sources at all. Indeed the reason is simple: there are none (at least in English). His stance is indefensible: he is rejecting modern musicological scholarship in this topic. There seems to be no rational reason behind his statements. Here are the books that he says are POV-pushing:
- Stinson, Russell (1999), Bach: the Orgelbüchlein, Oxford University Press, ISBN 978-0-19-386214-2
- Williams, Peter (2003), The Organ Music of J. S. Bach (2nd ed.), Cambridge University Press, pp. 227–316, ISBN 0-521-89115-9
- I never expected to be told on wikipedia that books like these are POV-pushing. The academic reviews of the books certainly don't say that. Mathsci (talk) 22:22, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- In March I did this edit on Clavier-Übung III, i.e. moving a hymn text to the article on the hymn.
- Now a few days ago I did a similar edit to Orgelbüchlein, that is: besides moving the hymn text to the related hymn article also replacing one image as explained in the edit summary. All at once this seemed for some reason problematic, thus I explained myself on the talk page of that article.
- I tried to reason with Mathsci, to no avail thus far. Example: I pointed this editor to Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines explaining that naming other editors in talk page headers is not allowed, after I removed it, Mathsci reverted it back in, added another one with the same problem, and after removal yet again
- I understand Mathsci is still under some ArbCom remedy for engaging in battlefield conduct. I've seen plenty of battlefield conduct in their behaviour in these few days. Some of their contentions above are all but a correct assessment of the situation (that is an understatement), so I hope nobody is taking this for true without checking. E.g., re. liturgical year / liturgical significance: I sorted the Church cantata article according to liturgical function recently, I don't think Mathsci is really aware what they accuse me of. Similar: talking about sources: that is what I put first in talk page discussions, so a fantastic accusation, with no base, etc. --Francis Schonken (talk) 22:54, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- I believe you mischaracterize Mathsci's current sanctions. He has mutual interaction bans with a number of editors, and cannot edit in the "Race and intelligence" subject area. (The exact wording can be found here; search for "Mathsci".) BMK (talk) 23:07, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Mathsci: remedies: "1.1) Mathsci is admonished for engaging in battlefield conduct. —Passed 5 to 3, 01:56, 14 May 2012 (UTC)". AFAIK that remedy is still active and it is stated in general, without being limited to the area of conflict of the case. And indeed, again, in a few days I've seen plenty of "battlefield conduct" by Mathsci whom I never met before. --Francis Schonken (talk) 23:37, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Unlike a block, a topic ban, an interaction ban, or a site ban, an admonishment is not an active sanction. He isn't editing "under admonishment by ArbCom", like a Sword of Damocles hanging over his head, he was admonished by ArbCom for his editing up to the time of the closing of the case. You'll note that he was site banned in that decision, and ArbCom just recently unbanned him, and the unban announcement made specific note of the iBans and topic bans that are still in effect, but made no mention of the admonishment, because, again, it's not an active sanction. BMK (talk) 00:12, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- I understand all that, that's why I used the word "remedy", not "sanction" (which is a qualification you came up with and which is indeed irrelevant to the remedy I referred to). Being admonished for engaging in battlefield conduct should make someone refrain from battlefield conduct immediately after some other remedies (those others of the "sanction" type) were lifted and/or otherwise alleviated or modified (i.e. at a time when the admonishment for engaging in battlefield conduct has not been modified or alleviated or whatever at all). --Francis Schonken (talk) 00:34, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, the question here is who is exhibiting "battlefield conduct". Is it simply Mathsci, or is it both Mathsci and you, or is it just you? Clearly, you believe it's just Mathsci, but you're hardly an unbiased observer. It's for others to determine who is misbehaving (if anyone), not you. BMK (talk) 02:05, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- I understand all that, that's why I used the word "remedy", not "sanction" (which is a qualification you came up with and which is indeed irrelevant to the remedy I referred to). Being admonished for engaging in battlefield conduct should make someone refrain from battlefield conduct immediately after some other remedies (those others of the "sanction" type) were lifted and/or otherwise alleviated or modified (i.e. at a time when the admonishment for engaging in battlefield conduct has not been modified or alleviated or whatever at all). --Francis Schonken (talk) 00:34, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Unlike a block, a topic ban, an interaction ban, or a site ban, an admonishment is not an active sanction. He isn't editing "under admonishment by ArbCom", like a Sword of Damocles hanging over his head, he was admonished by ArbCom for his editing up to the time of the closing of the case. You'll note that he was site banned in that decision, and ArbCom just recently unbanned him, and the unban announcement made specific note of the iBans and topic bans that are still in effect, but made no mention of the admonishment, because, again, it's not an active sanction. BMK (talk) 00:12, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Mathsci: remedies: "1.1) Mathsci is admonished for engaging in battlefield conduct. —Passed 5 to 3, 01:56, 14 May 2012 (UTC)". AFAIK that remedy is still active and it is stated in general, without being limited to the area of conflict of the case. And indeed, again, in a few days I've seen plenty of "battlefield conduct" by Mathsci whom I never met before. --Francis Schonken (talk) 23:37, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- I believe you mischaracterize Mathsci's current sanctions. He has mutual interaction bans with a number of editors, and cannot edit in the "Race and intelligence" subject area. (The exact wording can be found here; search for "Mathsci".) BMK (talk) 23:07, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Adapted some section header levels above as all of this is still part of the problems first outlined some years ago by Zwart. I'll be placing a NPOV related tag on the article now, linking to this section. The latest drive for unbalance seems to be tilting this article too much towards one or two sources (as if they were the only ones writing on individual chorale preludes in this collection). The NPOV policy and other core content policies demand to let all rpresentative reliable sources speak for themselves, and not filter them through the perspective of one or two of them. --Francis Schonken (talk) 20:10, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
In other words, using the two major references (there are no others) is POV-pushing and the use of these OUP and CUP books warrants a giant NPOV tag on the article. Good grief. I've rarely seen anything so disruptive. Francis Schonken presumably will now claim that somebody else wrote that, not him. Mathsci (talk) 23:16, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: I think this situation needs a third-opinion type of resolution. It's basically a content-dispute between two editors who don't see eye-to-eye, and trying to decipher who is causing the log-jam is I think really too long of an endeavor for ANI to figure out. Therefore, I would suggest posting an appeal for opinions on the WP:WikiProject Classical Music talk page, or go directly to WP:3O and post a request for a third opinion there. Alternatively, invite another editor(s) in who commonly edits on Bach articles -- say, Gerda Arendt, etc. -- and have them opine. From my own casual observation, I've noticed that Francis Schonken can go both ways in his editing style -- he can indeed sometimes create a toxic and domineering editing environment, or he can edit reasonably and rationally and collaboratively. To the OP I might have suggested that wholesale revision of an article is usually done best and easiest on a user-page draft rather than live, and that taking years to implement one kind of update is not ideal -- it should be done of a piece, so that the article stays coherent. Softlavender (talk) 23:32, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not really. When I wrote Great Eighteen Chorale Preludes, I used the above book of Williams and Stinson's book "The Great Eighteen". For the Handel organ concertos I used the book of Stanley Sadie, etc., etc. Despite the smearing remarks of Francis Schonken, arbcom has praised my articles on baroque music. On the other hand, Francis Schonken was warned recently by two administrators about harassing Gerda Arendt, another Bach editor.[162] He's just repeating that behaviour towards another unfortunate victim. He seems to resent my expertise. Mathsci (talk) 23:58, 18 May 2016 (UT
- You say "Not really" but you fail to refute a single thing I've said, and are indulging in repetitious self-justification. This is why I think this is a two-editor merry-go-round which needs a third opinion. Please stop arguing your content-dispute case here and take it to the proper venues as I've suggested. ANI is the wrong venue. Softlavender (talk) 00:10, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Observations of article talk-page behavior: For the heck of it, I just took an objective look at the article talk-page dialogue between the two editors (which has all occurred within the past week), and these edits are particularly egregious: [163], [164], [165], [166]. And they are all by Mathsci, and all from the past 24 hours. Mathsci, if you have been on Wikipedia for 10 years and have made 40,000 edits, and you still don't know how to behave in article talk-page discussions, I'd say you are a large part of, if not the source of, the problem here. Softlavender (talk) 00:46, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Mathsci should direct comments towards content and not contributors. It doesn't matter so much at ANI, but this section should be titled "Disruption at Orgelbüchlein" without naming an editor. Before the current excitement, Mathsci had made 492 edits to Orgelbüchlein from May 2010 to June 2013, while Francis Schonken made one edit in February 2015. Francis Schonken should find someone who is actually damaging the encyclopedia before going into attack mode—leave the article alone and return in a month. Then ask for opinions at a wikiproject. Johnuniq (talk) 02:30, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Actually, because they are intended to deal with behavioral issues, section titles on AN and AN/I are exceptions to the proscription against naming names. BMK (talk) 03:41, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Agreed, but it's not necessary in this case and does not help the situation. My comment was after skimming Talk:Orgelbüchlein and a better statement would have included that after the finger-pointing at that page, it would be better to tone down the drama here (hmmm, that's not right for ANI either!). Johnuniq (talk) 04:01, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Re: To Johnuniq's points: I think the OP fails utterly in his OP to make his case (not a single WP:DIFF of evidence, and definitely no substantiating of this bit of mind-reading: "Francis Schonken is aware that I was hospitalised last week as an emergency; and probably is aware that I have not fully recovered"). Moreover, Mathsci had not edited the article in three years [Edited to add: likely due to his recently rescinded site ban] before Francis Schonken came by this week and made a large removal: [167]. That said, Francis Schonken should not be removing text from a stable article (having the same material covered in the main article and the fork article is fine and there is no stricture at all against that), or quarreling against established reliable sources, or (what appears to be deliberately) interfering with what is now ongoing work on the article by an expert in the field who has apparently been adding to and organizing it for quite some time now, or making snarky comments on the talk page (Francis started the snark and attacks [168], and Mathsci then responded in kind). I agree with Johnuniq that Francis Schonken should probably leave the article alone, Mathsci should be able to return it to how he had it, and Francis Schonken should work somewhere else on Wikipedia. I don't think he should return to the article in less than two months, if at all, and if so at that point then only under the condition of engaging in formal WP:DR with the other editor. Softlavender (talk) 04:57, 19 May 2016 (UTC); edited 05:10, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- I mostly agree with your summary. I have resumed editing the article after 2 1/2 years away from it. At the top of one of the main sections Orgelbüchlein#Chorale_Preludes_BWV_599–644 is written: The brief descriptions of the chorale preludes are based on the detailed analysis in Williams (2003) and Stinson (1999) with harvtxt links. 9 of the brief descriptions are complete and I have started adding the remaining 37. Those two sources are the main sources in the English language within current Bach scholarship. The act of putting a POV tag on an anodyne and scholarly article was disruptive; equally disruptive was the charge that major sources in current Bach scholarship were being deliberately excluded in favour of biased sources. To restore some balance from the real world, here is Williams' obituary in The Guardian, written by the Bach scholar John Butt; Peter Williams died in April. Mathsci (talk) 07:31, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- I deem the organisation Mathsci proposes for the article problematic (explained in part here). Instead of engaging in the discussion of that issue, Mathsci tries to govern the article content by {{in use}} templates (i.e. keeping them up between editing sessions), ignoring the topic when discussed (instead adding walls of text in talk pages unrelated to the topic at hand), engaging in inadmissible talk page behavior (see diffs above, repeated by Softlavender), removing tags without addressing the issue at hand, and the like. I'd suggest not to reinforce the editor's self-assigned presumptions w.r.t. to article content, but instead invite them to take part in reasonable discussion of the article structure topic. Mathsci has been there before, compare Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music/Archive 41#Discussion of Clavier-Übung III at AN/I, and for the Orgelbüchlein: Talk:Orgelbüchlein/Archive 1#Religious POV.
- Re. "large removal": nah, moving two stanzas to a hymn article as I did on Orgelbüchlein (see diff above) wasn't a "large removal". I performed similar moves (of more than two stanzas) in March (diff above) and also this one from 2014: [169]. If contesting the edit and there is an ongoing talk page discussion about it then take part in that discussion with reasonable arguments: pasting a {{in use}} template and filling the talk page with off-topic replies (crying woolf about "blanking" and the like) is far from an appropriate response.
- That being said, I'm of course glad Mathsci expands the article with analyses and references, but that hardly solves the "excess of vaguely related primary sources" problem: if anything it makes that issue unavoidable. --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:52, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- It doesn't signify what or how you personally "deem" the current organization of the article -- that is the status quo and has been for years. Your coming in and trying to bully and edit-war your way to change it without consensus or WP:DR is not acceptable, and the current consensus here on this thread is that you need to bow out and stop interfering with the logical progression of the article by the expert in the subject matter who has been steadily adding to and improving it over the years [with an involuntary hiatus] and is following a well-explained plan. At this point both your large and small edits to the article are looking like harassment, especially given your talk-page characterization of them, and it would be to everyone's advantage if you bow out for now, wait a few months as Mathsci has requested (and now two other editors here have as well), and find something else on Wikipedia to do. Your "religious POV" tag on the article is the height of disruptiveness, in my opinion, and indicative of the unrealistic and battleground attitude you are taking. I think it best that you voluntarily leave the article now. Softlavender (talk) 10:14, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Agreed. While being typical behavior for quite a lot of editors, it is farcical that someone might become so indignant about Mathsci's development of the article as to create all the bluster. If Mathsci is adding too much detail, that is hardly a great wiki sin. I mentioned above that Mathsci has commented too much about an editor rather than content, so there is some blame for everyone, including myself who should be working elsewhere. The solution is for Francis Schonken to forget about the article, and to get other opinions after a couple of months rather than taking it upon himself to be the judge and executioner. It's fine to disrupt someone who is adding misleading or poorly sourced material to degrade an article, but that is definitely not the case here. Johnuniq (talk) 12:05, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- It doesn't signify what or how you personally "deem" the current organization of the article -- that is the status quo and has been for years. Your coming in and trying to bully and edit-war your way to change it without consensus or WP:DR is not acceptable, and the current consensus here on this thread is that you need to bow out and stop interfering with the logical progression of the article by the expert in the subject matter who has been steadily adding to and improving it over the years [with an involuntary hiatus] and is following a well-explained plan. At this point both your large and small edits to the article are looking like harassment, especially given your talk-page characterization of them, and it would be to everyone's advantage if you bow out for now, wait a few months as Mathsci has requested (and now two other editors here have as well), and find something else on Wikipedia to do. Your "religious POV" tag on the article is the height of disruptiveness, in my opinion, and indicative of the unrealistic and battleground attitude you are taking. I think it best that you voluntarily leave the article now. Softlavender (talk) 10:14, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Arbitrary break
- I suggest you all look at Francis Schonken's behaviour on Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 and his behaviour on Talk:Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4, including unacceptably copying to that page editors' comments on other talk pages with their signatures, refactoring them as he saw fit, and failing to provide links to the original context [170]. They are indicative of the kinds of problems Mathsci is facing. Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 is a Featured Article promoted only two months ago. One month after its promotion Francis started making swingeing changes to the content with no prior discussion [171]. This included unilaterally moving the page to a new title [172] and edit-warring [173], [174] to keep it there. The main editor objected to the page move and participated in the post hoc discussion on the talk page but Francis refused to participate any further in that discussion after less than a day and then unilaterally closed it. Instead of initiating a proper requested move discussion with wider participation, he festooned the article with maintenance tags and said he was taking it to FAR with the intent of getting it demoted [175]. The FAR was closed as out of process but he continued his bulldozing. The article is still festooned with tags and virtually all of its previous editors, including its main editor have been driven away. Its talk page is a now an unreadable mess and a place where Francis talks only to himself. Voceditenore (talk) 16:10, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Voceditenore, I hear you and I trust your analysis. I have put Orgelbüchlein on my watchlist, but I don't know what to do about Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4. Do you have any suggestion(s) or proposal(s)? I've seen this pattern of disruption and bullying with Francis Schonken before. What is your recommendation here? Softlavender (talk) 02:03, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have been pinged here, a place I try to avoid (otherwise I might have come for the reasons Voceditenore outlined above). I understand Mathsci's point fully. Look just at one diff of many: the fourth (central) stanza of the chorale replaced by a link to the chorale article, leaving the image and text without its base, - no improvement if you ask me, on top of no consistency with the other pieces of the book.
- I just returned from vacation where I had another chance to listen to BWV 565. Francis Schonken wrote that article, I respect it and stay away from it. I think if Francis offered the same respect to the articles of others (BWV - now a redirect to one of the longest articles on Wikipedia instead of a brief explanation of how Bach's works are arranged in the catalogue, Church cantata (Bach), see that discussion where I said first that I have no time to deal with it, and I could name more articles), we all had a better time. "Man liveth and endureth but a short time." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, thank you for your input. I have to agree from my observations (generally from afar but sometimes in the thick of his disputes with other editors over articles that the other editor[s] have vastly improved and carefully added to) that Francis Schonken's editing behavior is often disruptive, disrespectful, and domineering, and often drives good editors away in favor of his and only his preferred edits. The question is, what to do about this? It seems by all accounts to have occurred across many articles and over a long period of time. At this point we have an editor who, although he has also made some good contributions to Wikipedia, has a history of problematical behavior. Is it time for a broad-scale investigation? Or a topic ban on certain types of articles? A probationary period in which he is barred from this sort of behavior? Or some other solution(s)? Softlavender (talk) 03:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- A temporary ban from articles on the sacred music of J.S. Bach, broadly construed, might be in order. That would not exclude the lengthy article he wrote on the popular organ piece BWV 565, which has no religious connections and is probably not by Bach and not originally for organ. (Unfortunately closer inspection of BWV 565 shows that it is a very poorly written article for a large number of reasons: amongst them poor English with some sentences completely indecipherable; no proper treatment of the fugue, not even a musical quotation of the fugue subject despite 3 large images of the opening of the toccata—all part of a general absence of musical analysis; not using the main modern sources for commentary; quoting out of date sources not generally accepted within modern Bach scholarship; unduly lengthy content on legacy, such as Walt Disney's film "Fantasia"; and a blow-by-blow commentary on the source books in wikipedia's voice. This would not be so serious, except that Francis Schonken seems to think[176] that his article sets the standard for writing articles on Bach compositions.) Mathsci (talk) 07:26, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, thank you for your input. I have to agree from my observations (generally from afar but sometimes in the thick of his disputes with other editors over articles that the other editor[s] have vastly improved and carefully added to) that Francis Schonken's editing behavior is often disruptive, disrespectful, and domineering, and often drives good editors away in favor of his and only his preferred edits. The question is, what to do about this? It seems by all accounts to have occurred across many articles and over a long period of time. At this point we have an editor who, although he has also made some good contributions to Wikipedia, has a history of problematical behavior. Is it time for a broad-scale investigation? Or a topic ban on certain types of articles? A probationary period in which he is barred from this sort of behavior? Or some other solution(s)? Softlavender (talk) 03:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Endorse Softlavender's suggestion to take it to some form of dispute resolution. Mediation, third party etc. Nothing requires administrative action here - standard content dispute between two editors who don't see eye-to-eye. Only in death does duty end (talk) 07:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- At this point, my suggestion at the top of the thread is very outdated. FS has been requested by three separate editors (two of whom are completely uninvolved) to stay off the article for at least a few months. In addition a pattern of problematical behavior on FS's part across many articles and over a long period of time has been noted by at least four editors independently of each other. Softlavender (talk) 07:52, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Its still a content dispute. And frankly on the talkpage its not FS who is the worst offender in battleground behaviour. Lets not mention comments from the opening complaint here by Mathsci: "Francis Schonken is aware that I was hospitalised last week as an emergency; and probably is aware that I have not fully recovered. Yet he has decided to create an impossible and toxic editing environment" - implying someone is deliberately exploiting another's illness is far beyond AGF. And this is not the first time Mathsci has used his illness as a weapon/sympathy tool in a dispute. Last time he was hospitalised prior to his ban, he made very similar claims (and yet still managed to log on to wikipedia regularly to engage in disputes). Francis is no angel, but ultimately when both parties have little credibility and a history of less than stellar behaviour, favouring one over the other in a content dispute would be silly. Send it to mediation, let them both make their cases. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in prolonging this side discussion, but we (the editors investigating and opining on this thread) have already long since gone over and surpassed all of those observations and reached other conclusions -- starting with Johnuniq's entry into the conversation; if you do Control+F and find his first post here you can see the flow of reasoning. Softlavender (talk) 08:23, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- By 'long since' you mean 'in the last 48 hours'. Fortunately I do not have to agree with you and am perfectly capable of reading a discussion and forming my own conclusions. So less condescension and suggestion that I have not in fact, done so. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:33, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in prolonging this side discussion, but we (the editors investigating and opining on this thread) have already long since gone over and surpassed all of those observations and reached other conclusions -- starting with Johnuniq's entry into the conversation; if you do Control+F and find his first post here you can see the flow of reasoning. Softlavender (talk) 08:23, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Its still a content dispute. And frankly on the talkpage its not FS who is the worst offender in battleground behaviour. Lets not mention comments from the opening complaint here by Mathsci: "Francis Schonken is aware that I was hospitalised last week as an emergency; and probably is aware that I have not fully recovered. Yet he has decided to create an impossible and toxic editing environment" - implying someone is deliberately exploiting another's illness is far beyond AGF. And this is not the first time Mathsci has used his illness as a weapon/sympathy tool in a dispute. Last time he was hospitalised prior to his ban, he made very similar claims (and yet still managed to log on to wikipedia regularly to engage in disputes). Francis is no angel, but ultimately when both parties have little credibility and a history of less than stellar behaviour, favouring one over the other in a content dispute would be silly. Send it to mediation, let them both make their cases. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is no content dispute between two editors. It should not be on ANI because it is not one incident. It is being helpless against an editor who produces more than I am able to read, doesn't adhere to WP:BRD and is the only one who ever edit warred with me on my talk page. The naming of Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 could have been short: FS moved - I reverted - Francis should find consensus. No, we have a flood of talk page comments, all about two names with exactly the same meaning. I have no time to deal with that. Btw, I am not the author of that article, Thoughtfortheday wrote much more, the community did, several people supported for FA, - it just doesn't meet Francis's standards. - Correction of mistakes is a different thing, we are always willing to do that if asked reasonably. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:01, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- At this point, my suggestion at the top of the thread is very outdated. FS has been requested by three separate editors (two of whom are completely uninvolved) to stay off the article for at least a few months. In addition a pattern of problematical behavior on FS's part across many articles and over a long period of time has been noted by at least four editors independently of each other. Softlavender (talk) 07:52, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Gerda, I'm just going to correct one of your statements: ANI is for patterns of problematical behavior; it is not for single incidents. However, if you are implying that the relevant patterns of behavior and the number of articles affected are perhaps too large to be dealt with at ANI, that is possibly something to take into consideration I suppose, if a satisfactory result cannot be achieved here for the problems uncovered. Softlavender (talk) 08:11, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Ah Gerda, you may want to use a better example of someone else's bad behaviour than a content dispute over the title of an article where you failed to gain consensus for your position despite forum-shopping it to a number of a venues. You clearly *did* have time to deal with it, since you spent an unusually large amount of time attempting to drum up support. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:48, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- (ec) As Softlavender already pointed out, the disruption has arisen from large scale edits [(mass) tagging and arbitrary blanking] to at least two stable articles. The featured article Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 is one example; Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 625 is another. I also believe Gerda Arendt, one of the major contributors to BWV 4, felt that she was being placed under undue pressure, so much so that she abandoned editing the article. Vociditenore also mentioned Francis Schonken's disruptive pasting of text from other unrelated discussions to force a point (this has happened on both talk pages). A temporary topic ban on Bach's sacred music, widely construed, is a reasonable solution. Mathsci (talk) 09:00, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- And yet, still a content dispute. Gerda's bringing up of Christ lag is a red herring as its clear from the discussion there that Francis had both policy and source-based justifications for his position which Gerda was unable to refute despite extensive forum-shopping. I do not see any difference here. Take it to mediation or stop attempting to have someone removed from the topic because they disagree with you. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I didn't bring up the cantata, Voceditenore did. (Repeating: I try to avoid WP:Great Dismal Swamp. Repeating also: I am not a "major contributor" to the article, I am one of many, it was developed over years, which explains a certain unevenness.) The present cantata name contradicts most of the sources for the article, including the most relevant ones (Dürr-Jones, Bach-Digital). I didn't go forum-shopping, I raised a more general question on classical music, and I asked a friend who is an admin and an arb if ignoring the whole thing would be best. I wasn't "unable to refute", but gave up for lack of time, - I returned from vacation only late yesterday. Please note that "no time" doesn't mean that I don't have the time but that I don't want to waste my time. - I don't want to see Francis removed from the topic to which he can contribute with knowledge, but need a way to less friction and less waste of time. For a while we had an approach that Francis wouldn't edit an article but only raise questions on the talk. It worked then, but it's still a problem that Francis can raise questions faster than I am able to deal with them. - Any suggestion welcome. 1RR perhaps? Francis accepting WP:BRD? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:20, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- And yet, still a content dispute. Gerda's bringing up of Christ lag is a red herring as its clear from the discussion there that Francis had both policy and source-based justifications for his position which Gerda was unable to refute despite extensive forum-shopping. I do not see any difference here. Take it to mediation or stop attempting to have someone removed from the topic because they disagree with you. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- (ec) As Softlavender already pointed out, the disruption has arisen from large scale edits [(mass) tagging and arbitrary blanking] to at least two stable articles. The featured article Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 is one example; Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 625 is another. I also believe Gerda Arendt, one of the major contributors to BWV 4, felt that she was being placed under undue pressure, so much so that she abandoned editing the article. Vociditenore also mentioned Francis Schonken's disruptive pasting of text from other unrelated discussions to force a point (this has happened on both talk pages). A temporary topic ban on Bach's sacred music, widely construed, is a reasonable solution. Mathsci (talk) 09:00, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Re. Softlavender's "... making snarky comments on the talk page (Francis started the snark and attacks [177], and Mathsci then responded in kind) ..." above: I fail to see any snark in the diff. I can only speak for myself – there at least I am sure: no snark of any kind was intended with that article talk page post. "Mathsci ... responded in kind" is not how I perceived this. I never felt any snarkyness or whatever of that kind, not in any kind, in Mathsci's responses. Matschi defended their edits, I defended mine, each from their perspective, but there was no atmosphere of snarkyness in any of that afaics. No "attacks" either in my talk page responses at Talk:Orgelbüchlein. There, as I explained, and has been linked a few times above, were some disallowed tendentious talk page headers in response, but that has long been settled.
- Sorry for being emphatic on that point, while a lot of extrapolation seems to be derived from the wrong basic assumption on the snarkyness. If Mathsci experienced my response snarky they could have said so. I extend that invitation: please tell me what you experienced snarky in my response, if you did so. --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:06, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Francis, your first point was rather snarky. But that's not the real problem illustrated by that diff. The problem is that you:
- a. adamantly refused to accept that the other editor had a point: (my bolding) "blanking parts of the article": I did no such thing. Yes you did. Not once but twice.
- b presented your views as fiats instead of the start of a collaborative discussion and then edit-warred to "enforce" them: (my bolding) The entombement image is inappropriate, for reasons explained above. I'll remove it again and The text of stanzas 1 and 4 of Luther's hymn is inappropriate, for reasons explained above. I'll remove them again.
- These issues are pervasive in your editing and in your behaviour on talk pages, and it isn't restricted to the Bach articles. For example, observe your behaviour in this sequence of conversations: [178][179], [180] over your edit-warring, aggression, and utter refusal to get the point on, of all things, a college's course page at WikiEd. And that's one of many examples. You have a lot to offer. Your edits are often very valuable and you are clearly dedicated to improving Wikipedia. But you do that at the expense of exhausting and driving off equally valuable editors from articles and making talk page discussions intolerable. Yes, improving the Bach articles is important but so is common courtesy, cooperation, and respect for your colleagues. I know it's not easy to find several editors criticising you in a public forum, but I encourage you to reflect a bit on what we're saying. If you don't, I'm afraid you'll end up here again and again. At the very least you'll squander whatever good will and patience other editors may have had towards you. This will be my last comment here, apart from opposing your topic ban. Voceditenore (talk) 15:14, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Francis, speaking as someone who's had talk page disputes with Softlavender more than once in the past, she was not snarking you. She was describing your behavior accurately and with no emotionally-loaded comments directed at you or your content (snarking is a subset of that class of behavior). You were snarking other editors. She called you on it.
- Honestly, I don't know enough about the subject matter in dispute or the personal dynamics of the issue you and Mathsci have with each other to endorse or oppose a topic ban at this time - it's unclear you're the only offender on this topic. I think further investigation of this and related disputes is called for of your conduct and of Mathsci's. It is my impression from the testimony of the editors who came forth with separate examples of things they say you did wrong that evidence of a problem with your editing style exists. My friendly and not-snarky advice is for you to read over the testimony regarding your edits on articles other than the one Mathsci posted here about originally, try to set your anger aside, and learn from your mistakes. That was helpful to me in the past, and allowed me to shift my focus back to editing an encyclopedia.
- Mathsci, with due regard for the work which other editors qualified to give a good third opinion have praised from you, and as another Wikipedia editor with moderately severe medical issues, I hope you recovered well from the illness for which you last presented in hospital. That said, I was in the hospital last December and must go back in six weeks for another procedure. It would not occur to me to expect other editors to take that into account in a discussion of my edits in wikipedia, because while I've had the occasion to learn much about specialty issues and help edit articles here for accuracy, clarity and concision, I'm not indispensable. None of us are. I invite you to read Wikipedia:No_editor_is_indispensable. The proper reaction to being kept from editing owing to illness is simply to get well and start over. loupgarous (talk) 10:09, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
- Re. "...she was not snarking you": I never thought she was. I also never said nor implied she was. You seem to reply to something that is nowhere apparent from the above conversation, nor from the many places it links to. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:27, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Francis: "Sorry for disturbing you by replacing a deadlink by a working link. It was not my intention to disturb you with an edit to a section that had no {{in use}} template" is pure biting sarcasm. There's no other possible way to read it, in my mind, because Mathsci had not mentioned that at all in his preceding comments on the Talk page. In my opinion it's just a blatant jab at Mathsci while trying to justify your own unnecessary meddling with the article while it was being expanded and improved by the expert in the field. "The section with an {{in use}} template hasn't been edited for several hours now, so per the template instructions I'll replace it with an {{under construction}} template" is pure wikilawyering (over templates of all things!). "Re. "blanking parts of the article": I did no such thing" has already been refuted by Voceditenore above [181]. "In your above reply you missed what I said, and replied to things I didn't say" is untrue; Mathsci had replied with his clear rationale for the article's content [182]; you simply didn't accept his answer or consider it worthwhile, and instead chose to claim he didn't respond to you correctly. (And by the way in my opinion your idiosyncratic reading of WP:PRIMARY is I think simply that -- idiosyncratic, and especially odd when you propose doing the same thing that Mathsci has done on the main article to the fork articles, and especially so when you had, above on the talk page, tried to justify the changing of a large image to a minuscule image to accommodate your section blanking [183] as "a hymn that is in no way about the burial of Christ should not be illustrated by a painting about that theme" when in fact Christ lag in Todesbandenis about Christ's death and by extension burial.) "The entombement image is inappropriate, for reasons explained above. I'll remove it again" is a clear violation of BRD. "The text of stanzas 1 and 4 of Luther's hymn is inappropriate, for reasons explained above. I'll remove them again. They are contained in the "Christ lag in Todesbanden" article" is also a clear violation of BRD, as well as making up policies or guidelines which don't exist -- there is no stricture on material in one article being in another article as well. "The explanation of BWV 625 in the article on the hymn is inappropriate in that article, at least it is better in its place in the article on BWV 625. I'll transfer that explanation to here" likewise -- unilateral decision made without consensus and in contravention of BRD and absent any policy. "In fact it's simple: instead of having the text of the hymn in the article on the organ piece, and the explanation of the organ piece in the article on the hymn, we have the explanation of the organ piece in the article on the organ piece, and the text of the hymn in the article on the hymn" is more of the same. Note that in the discussion in this ANI thread Voceditemore has recommended three times that you reflect on the issues that are being raised here (she has been saying that in the hopes that matters will change). However if you fail to see how you've been editing uncollaboratively and uncooperatively, then her recommendation is for naught. We're all trying to raise a solution here, but the solution requires insight and understanding on your part. Softlavender (talk) 03:12, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
- Re. "...Christ lag in Todesbanden is about Christ's death and by extension burial". We shouldn't do "...by extension..." when choosing images. (Wikipedia:Image use policy#Adding images to articles, policy: "The relevant aspect of the image should be clear and central"). "Central" to the current image (File:Entombment Art Institute Chicago Cologne.jpg) is the Good Friday related theme of Christ's burial, with Mary central in the painted group of persons mourning Christ's death – not the Easter related theme of Christ resurrecting from death. There's no Holy Virgin in the illustrated chorale, no mourning by anyone, just Christ resurrecting from death with a host of theological implications, and joyful "Halleluja!"s to celebrate the event: it is a Hymn written for Easter, not for Good Friday.
- Further, there is some religous POV in play – Zwart remarked on it in general, here's how it could be seen as applying specifically to this choice of image: Lutheranism has less mourning Mary than Catholicism, as an example for that BWV 1083 could be mentioned where Bach replaces the text "At the Cross her station keeping stood the mournful Mother weeping" by that of the Miserere psalm (Old Testament, no mournful Mary weeping). Illustrating a Lutheran chorale text, if there ever was one, with a Catholic slant on a different theme is kind of an inappropriate religious POV imho. --Francis Schonken (talk) 07:19, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Francis: "Sorry for disturbing you by replacing a deadlink by a working link. It was not my intention to disturb you with an edit to a section that had no {{in use}} template" is pure biting sarcasm. There's no other possible way to read it, in my mind, because Mathsci had not mentioned that at all in his preceding comments on the Talk page. In my opinion it's just a blatant jab at Mathsci while trying to justify your own unnecessary meddling with the article while it was being expanded and improved by the expert in the field. "The section with an {{in use}} template hasn't been edited for several hours now, so per the template instructions I'll replace it with an {{under construction}} template" is pure wikilawyering (over templates of all things!). "Re. "blanking parts of the article": I did no such thing" has already been refuted by Voceditenore above [181]. "In your above reply you missed what I said, and replied to things I didn't say" is untrue; Mathsci had replied with his clear rationale for the article's content [182]; you simply didn't accept his answer or consider it worthwhile, and instead chose to claim he didn't respond to you correctly. (And by the way in my opinion your idiosyncratic reading of WP:PRIMARY is I think simply that -- idiosyncratic, and especially odd when you propose doing the same thing that Mathsci has done on the main article to the fork articles, and especially so when you had, above on the talk page, tried to justify the changing of a large image to a minuscule image to accommodate your section blanking [183] as "a hymn that is in no way about the burial of Christ should not be illustrated by a painting about that theme" when in fact Christ lag in Todesbandenis about Christ's death and by extension burial.) "The entombement image is inappropriate, for reasons explained above. I'll remove it again" is a clear violation of BRD. "The text of stanzas 1 and 4 of Luther's hymn is inappropriate, for reasons explained above. I'll remove them again. They are contained in the "Christ lag in Todesbanden" article" is also a clear violation of BRD, as well as making up policies or guidelines which don't exist -- there is no stricture on material in one article being in another article as well. "The explanation of BWV 625 in the article on the hymn is inappropriate in that article, at least it is better in its place in the article on BWV 625. I'll transfer that explanation to here" likewise -- unilateral decision made without consensus and in contravention of BRD and absent any policy. "In fact it's simple: instead of having the text of the hymn in the article on the organ piece, and the explanation of the organ piece in the article on the hymn, we have the explanation of the organ piece in the article on the organ piece, and the text of the hymn in the article on the hymn" is more of the same. Note that in the discussion in this ANI thread Voceditemore has recommended three times that you reflect on the issues that are being raised here (she has been saying that in the hopes that matters will change). However if you fail to see how you've been editing uncollaboratively and uncooperatively, then her recommendation is for naught. We're all trying to raise a solution here, but the solution requires insight and understanding on your part. Softlavender (talk) 03:12, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Second arbitrary break: repeated disruption on Talk:Orgelbüchlein
After having been made aware that Orgelbüchlein is an article in the course of creation—including all the sections after the lede, and in particular commentary on individual sections on each of the 46 chorale preludes, along with companion articles on WP and multiple audio/image files on commons—User:Francis Schonken has resumed his disruptive heckling on the article talk page.[184] Despite this thread, he repeatedly continues to express his personal opinion about a "religious point of view". Large preliminary sections, before the discussion of individual chorale preludes, remain in an evidently unfinished state. A glance at the two main sources, Williams (2003) and Stinson (1999), shows that quite clearly. The history ends almost in mid-sentence, there is only the briefest summary of the compositional style with no content on purpose, there is no detailed discussion of reception, etc. The lede is a summary of what will be in the article, which I am busy creating (as the tag at the top of the article indicates). The phrase "theological statement" is not contentious, except in the eyes of Francis Schonken. Many commentators refer to this aspect of Bach and his compositions. William Renwick in a commentary on BWV 614 (a section currently under construction) writes:
Bach’s art is frequently intertwined with his religious convictions. The consecration of time through music, which is part of the Christian tradition, is seen in his great cantata cycles, in Clavierubung III, and in the Orgelbuchlein. Indeed, the Orgelbuchlein, in its extensive conception though incomplete realization, contains his most detailed exposition of the theological expression of time. In many cases Bach’s compositional process was a matter of taking the text or theme of the hymn as a basis for selecting topics that could be translated into musical terms and then built into contrapuntal structures.
In Christian theology, the supreme action is the God-Man event, the incarnation. New Year, with its implications of rebirth, is a central point in the twelve-day Christmas cycle that extends from the Nativity to the Epiphany. This is the divide between old and new. In the spiritual life, this is worked out by turning away from a sinful past and toward a future promise of redemption. This concept may well be reflected in the change of tonal orientation that “Das alte Jahr” embodies. But despite our best intentions, each new year, each new beginning always ends up as a retracing of our old follies. The dividing point of the new year is in fact a mirage; we are helpless to reform without the intervention of God. In the same way, the ending on E inevitably points us back to our starting point on A.
Current musical commentary by Bach scholars like Renwick, Wolff, Williams and Stinson addresses all aspects of a composition. In the case of Orgelbüchlein this involves all sorts of things including theology and religion—hardly surprising for a collection of organ pieces devised to follow a Lutheran hymnbook and dedicated to the glory of God. This is clear in what Renwick writes above about OB and ClvUbg III, both exceptional amongst Bach's organ compositions. In an uncontentious scholarly article, which this evidently is, the lede summarises the content and no citations are needed in the lede. If Francis Schonken is too impatient to wait for that content to be added to the main body of the article, he should take the article off his watchlist until the initial stage of creation has been completed. His disruptive conduct at the moment seems designed to distract from and halt content creation. Mathsci (talk) 09:24, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Proposal: Temporary topic ban
Per Mathsci's analysis and proposal above [185], [186]: Francis Schonken is topic-banned for six months from Bach's sacred music, broadly construed. Softlavender (talk) 09:18, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support per Mathsci and per the problems noted by Voceditenore, Gerda Arendt, and others. Softlavender (talk) 09:18, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Unfortunately the disruption has not stopped. On this article talk page (which I have not edited), there is continued edit warring, restoring mass copy-pasting of other editors' comments with time stamps from other talk pages.[187] Mathsci (talk) 09:55, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- LOL 25,000-byte talk-page post [188]. Always a sign of a collaborative editor. And yes, restoring it less than 6 hours ago shows the disruption has not stopped [189]. -- Softlavender (talk) 10:09, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- He was posting the discussions that Gerda started in other locations on the same issue in an attempt to keep the discussion in one venue. WP:FORUMSHOPPING is a link for a reason. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:17, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- As already explained above, I started two discussion, one on classical music, the relevant project, and one asking an admin if I should ignore it. The other copies are from discussions which I didn't start. Brianboulton asked on my talk page what was going on, I answered. His response was reverted three times, I archived the thread. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Only in death does duty end and Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi (below). The point isn't the length of the post. The point is that Francis re-posted editors' comments from other pages and refactored them to suit his purposes. WP:FORUMSHOPPING does not remotely justify that. Nor does it justify re-posting others' comments that are irrelevant to improving the article. Note that in this particularly egregious example, he selectively edited Brianboulton's and my comments at Gerda's talk page which were highly critical of his behaviour and tone at Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 and its talk page. This is the full and original context. Francis removed our criticism of him and what he left implied that I was primarily criticising Gerda for forum shopping. How on earth is re-posting on Talk:Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 my suggested wording for Gerda to use when posting at other forums relevant to improving the article? It was simply a tool to browbeat and discredit another editor. Voceditenore (talk) 11:36, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I dont think Gerda needed any help discrediting themselves. The article title is unchanged. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- No. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd appreciate if you substantiated your witty comment by some reliable source. The article title was changed. The comment hurts me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:59, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- I dont think Gerda needed any help discrediting themselves. The article title is unchanged. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Only in death does duty end and Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi (below). The point isn't the length of the post. The point is that Francis re-posted editors' comments from other pages and refactored them to suit his purposes. WP:FORUMSHOPPING does not remotely justify that. Nor does it justify re-posting others' comments that are irrelevant to improving the article. Note that in this particularly egregious example, he selectively edited Brianboulton's and my comments at Gerda's talk page which were highly critical of his behaviour and tone at Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 and its talk page. This is the full and original context. Francis removed our criticism of him and what he left implied that I was primarily criticising Gerda for forum shopping. How on earth is re-posting on Talk:Christ lag in Todesbanden, BWV 4 my suggested wording for Gerda to use when posting at other forums relevant to improving the article? It was simply a tool to browbeat and discredit another editor. Voceditenore (talk) 11:36, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- As already explained above, I started two discussion, one on classical music, the relevant project, and one asking an admin if I should ignore it. The other copies are from discussions which I didn't start. Brianboulton asked on my talk page what was going on, I answered. His response was reverted three times, I archived the thread. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- He was posting the discussions that Gerda started in other locations on the same issue in an attempt to keep the discussion in one venue. WP:FORUMSHOPPING is a link for a reason. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:17, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- LOL 25,000-byte talk-page post [188]. Always a sign of a collaborative editor. And yes, restoring it less than 6 hours ago shows the disruption has not stopped [189]. -- Softlavender (talk) 10:09, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose Blatant attempt to remove dissent as part of a content dispute. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes it isn't a 25K post- it's an entire thread of many editors' posts. It is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 10:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- A post is a post. And it's 25,000 bytes long. Moreover, it's a violation of several policies, including refactoring and copying others' comments out of context and across pages and without permission (see Voceditenore's report here [diff]). And he nevertheless restored the massive WP:TALK-violating post six hours ago. -- Softlavender (talk) 10:37, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes it isn't a 25K post- it's an entire thread of many editors' posts. It is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 10:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Only in death has identified some other issues but they are not actionable. It is not a "content dispute" but disruption by Francis Schonken as explained above, and as reported here (diff). No one is required to comment at ANI, but my inference from FS's absence is that FS sees no reason to engage with others—given the context, that is not acceptable. Johnuniq (talk) 10:20, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Tx for pinging. No, your inference is wrong. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:31, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Would you be open to formal third party mediation Francis? Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sure. --Francis Schonken (talk) 12:14, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- (ec) Only in death: Mediation requires consent from all parties, so would not happen. Although adding serious content to wikipedia might not be quite your cup of tea (326 content edits, mostly on fantasy worlds, war games, anime and manga), dreaming up methods to prevent others doing so [190][191] is not a substitute. Mathsci (talk) 12:35, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well yes, where one party in a content dispute refuses to engage in mediation that is telling in itself. It clearly indicates who *is* willing to discuss and who just wants to *win*. Although to lower myself to your level for a moment, if we are going through each other's editing history in order to make off-topic attacks - perhaps you would like to explain why when you came back from your ban one of the first edits you made was to an article that shares the real name of an editor you had significant disputes with in the past? Unlikely coincidence there given the name. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:53, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Isn't there a participant on wikipediocracy whose pseudonym is taken from the same fantasy series as yours? The wikipediocracy character has made several vicious and unjustified attacks on me, including charges of blatant sockpuppetry. Given your present conduct, you are probably that same person, come here to "sort me out". Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 05:00, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- IMHO this seems to be taking an undesirable WP:ASPERSION route. In an attempt to get back on topic, I just came across User talk:Zwart#August 2012:
- "... Please try not to make your arguments personalized ..." (Mathsci) – seems to be applicable here.
- "... several of Math's [...] articles point to a problem of him adding excessive images and other unnecessary material. There's only like a dozen decent-sized paragraphs of original prose in the Orgelbüchlein article despite it being 90 kilobytes in size and even there the sourcing is not always particularly clear, so I think that article does need a lot of work. He should avoid the temptation to clutter an article with images or lyrics, especially since in the most severe cases it could arguably be a case of WP:INDISCRIMINATE ..." (The Devil's Advocate) – above Johnuniq wrote "... adding too much detail [...] is hardly a great wiki sin ...": neither is addressing the excessive images and lyrics situation a great wiki sin. I support Matschi in addressing the original prose situation, which, to me at least, thus far seems to be the best part of all what followed my running in with them.
- "... what was very painful in this exchange was the way I was made to feel unwelcome contributing to the article. Wikipedia should not be about fighting for your turf. I'm backing out of this one until I see signs of things opening up." (Zwart) – in other words Mathsci successfully chased Zwart off the page. I tried to be more resilient in not letting me be chased off the page. I appreciate that the way I went ahead with that was too forceful, that's at least what I understand from the many comments here.
- --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:53, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is typical output from Francis Schonken (FS). It does give, however, a very good illustration of his modus operandi. In 2012 while under construction a drive-by editor (Zvart) blanked all the images in the article, a skeleton at that stage. I restored them, carefully explaining why they were there. When FS appeared at the article 4 years later, he failed to notice the difference between completed and uncompleted sections—those with and without musical analysis. 25% is finished: To do list. Here are an uncompleted group and a completed group. Other sections, e.g. Reception, are unwritten. As an article in progress, FS's "statistics" are meaningless and misleading. He has also indiscriminately reproduced other people's comments out of context to make his point. That is also what Voceditenore et al have objected to. Was there a particular reason FS chose a site banned user? Mathsci (talk) 11:40, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Tx for coming back on topic.
- Re. "... drive-by editor ..." – you drove them off the article in two days time, sounds inopportune to characterize the other party as drive-by under these circumstances. Zwart's 2012 statement quoted and linked to above makes clear they had contributed more if you hadn't driven them away from the article.
- Re. "... carefully explaining why [the images] were there ..." – I take you are (mainly?) referring to this 2012 exchange on the talk page. Afaics Zwart carefully rejected your rationale for the images, after which you didn't return to that topic, but simply drove Zwart of the article.
- Re. " ... [FS] failed to notice ..." – I didn't fail to notice that difference. Please stop assuming.
- Re. "... FS's "statistics" ..." – These statistics aren't mine, they are someone else's assessment four years ago, as I clearly indicated. So much for giving more context than needed: the main point for giving that quote was indicating that the problems regarding Mathsci's tendency to "clutter an article with images or lyrics" had been signalled since 2012, and specifically for the Orgelbüchlein article. AFAICS that issue still isn't sorted and Mathschi was to a large extent instrumental in it not getting sorted. Then this week I haphazardly stroll into that minefield of unresolved issues. The issue is also independent of who was banned when. --Francis Schonken (talk) 13:31, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- As far as I'm aware FS has very little experience editing articles on Bach's major sacred works for organ: I have written almost all of that content. (4 major articles, the last still in process; I haven't touched the Schübler Chorales, just a stub.) The initial process of creating an article as complex as this is usually performed by one person, which happened to be me. The article is changing rapidly at present. FS seems to be in complete denial of that. Instead he is still trying to force a set of distorted conclusions on others by repetitive heckling, hurling outdated and already answered comments from 2012 at me as if they were biblical curses or plagues. Statistics from 2012 do not apply now. Roughly 20,000 bytes have been added since summer 2012, mainly in 2013 and 2016. Mathsci (talk) 16:43, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Re. "The article is changing rapidly at present. FS seems to be in complete denial of that." – on the contrary, and I said so multiple times, even complimented you on your work, as you can see above. Please take the compliment and stop assuming.
- Re. "... an article as complex as this ..." – I don't think the article is particularily complex in structure or content. It covers a lot of ground, that is however not the same as complex.
- Re. "The initial process of creating an article [whether complex or not] is usually performed by one person" – I think you mis the point of the Wikipedia process of creation: whether other editors arrive early or later you can't chase them away but have to interact with them in a reasonable manner.
- The basic problems I experienced with Orgelbüchlein, Clavier-Übung III and Canonic Variations on "Vom Himmel hoch da komm' ich her" are still the same, and have been signalled multiple times over a long period by multiple editors. You refuse to interact to settle the issue. --Francis Schonken (talk) 22:29, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am the only wikipedian to have written detailed articles on the chorale preludes. I play almost all of them: that background knowledge is helpful. The process of creating articles on chorale preludes is complex, even if they are just summaries of what the main sources say: they are also multimedia articles. FS informs us that the process is not complex; but he has never tackled anything remotely like them. BWV 565, which he helped write, cannot be compared to BWV 552, the most elaborate organ prelude and fugue of Bach. His sweeping statements are not useful, and almost always negative; none of them are backed by any expertise. (He made no comments on Great Eighteen Chorale Preludes. I know that Canonic Variations has been translated word-by-word into French; and there hasn't been a constant stream of complaints about the articles I've created.) On the other hand I've actually been writing this type of content for some time now; and here I've simply been describing what's involved. But each time I've done so, up pops FS like a jack-in-a-box, to contradict everything I write. His behaviour is not special to me: he does it to all Bach editors, hence the proposed editing restrictions. cqfd Mathsci (talk) 00:21, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- The problems with Orgelbüchlein, Clavier-Übung III and Canonic Variations I was referring to are: "[Matschi] should avoid the temptation to clutter an article with images or lyrics, especially since in the most severe cases it could arguably be a case of WP:INDISCRIMINATE" (quoted from above), i.e.:
- excessive images
- excessive lyrics
- Great Eighteen Chorale Preludes does not have that problem.
- Please defer from wordgames: I didn't say anything about the creation of those articles being complex or not, you mentioned "... an article as complex as this ..." – so I spoke about the complexity of the article, not of the complexity of the creation process.
- And my basic analysis stands: instead of addressing the excessive images/lyrics issue, an issue raised by others, you create diversions. This is not about competency in organ-playing or whatever. This is not about the score examples. Even per omnes versus chorale cantatas don't have the lyrics in their articles. I really ask myself what the organ of the Catholic Hofkirche is doing in the Canonic Variations article. So either we can discuss the excess lyrics/images issue, or you continue to avoid discussing it. I tried. There is one other issue: I don't object to Williams and Stinson as main sources for such articles (never did). But still, they are not the only ones. For the rest I see no problems and excellent work.
- Re. "sweeping statements" – here is one: restoring content removed without proper explanation – accusing a bot of not giving a proper edit summary and whatnot (the IMSLP link didn't work any more after your revert, and still doesn't). I've been much more careful in my statements than that. --Francis Schonken (talk) 03:22, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Francis, Mathsci was not referring to the bot with that edit, and you know it. He was restoring the material you had removed with no explanation as to why [192]. The endless bickering here between the two of you is distracting and counterproductive. Neither of you are doing yourselves any favours. I suggest you both cut it out. Voceditenore (talk) 06:18, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- With that edit Mathsci reverted the bot edit, which caused the IMSLP link not to work properly any more (it goes to a non-existing category page at the IMSLP website currently). So yes, his edit summary was meant to also cover that inopportune part of the revert. Re. favours: what people want to see (I suppose) is me and Mathsci getting along in communicating about our differences. If that is a process that takes some time, so be it. I'm prepared to go a long way in talk page communication. I already started a Talk page discussion here, so that the Canonic Variations-related issues no longer need to be discussed at ANI (which is not suited for such issues I suppose). --Francis Schonken (talk) 06:35, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Francis, it is laudable that you have opened a discussion there—something you should have done in the first place. However, this ANI discussion is not simply about you and one particular editor "getting along". It is about your discourteous and at times intolerable behaviour towards multiple editors in multiple Wikipedia spaces. Until you start reflecting on that wider issue, nothing is going to change. Voceditenore (talk) 06:49, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- With that edit Mathsci reverted the bot edit, which caused the IMSLP link not to work properly any more (it goes to a non-existing category page at the IMSLP website currently). So yes, his edit summary was meant to also cover that inopportune part of the revert. Re. favours: what people want to see (I suppose) is me and Mathsci getting along in communicating about our differences. If that is a process that takes some time, so be it. I'm prepared to go a long way in talk page communication. I already started a Talk page discussion here, so that the Canonic Variations-related issues no longer need to be discussed at ANI (which is not suited for such issues I suppose). --Francis Schonken (talk) 06:35, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Francis, Mathsci was not referring to the bot with that edit, and you know it. He was restoring the material you had removed with no explanation as to why [192]. The endless bickering here between the two of you is distracting and counterproductive. Neither of you are doing yourselves any favours. I suggest you both cut it out. Voceditenore (talk) 06:18, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- The problems with Orgelbüchlein, Clavier-Übung III and Canonic Variations I was referring to are: "[Matschi] should avoid the temptation to clutter an article with images or lyrics, especially since in the most severe cases it could arguably be a case of WP:INDISCRIMINATE" (quoted from above), i.e.:
- I am the only wikipedian to have written detailed articles on the chorale preludes. I play almost all of them: that background knowledge is helpful. The process of creating articles on chorale preludes is complex, even if they are just summaries of what the main sources say: they are also multimedia articles. FS informs us that the process is not complex; but he has never tackled anything remotely like them. BWV 565, which he helped write, cannot be compared to BWV 552, the most elaborate organ prelude and fugue of Bach. His sweeping statements are not useful, and almost always negative; none of them are backed by any expertise. (He made no comments on Great Eighteen Chorale Preludes. I know that Canonic Variations has been translated word-by-word into French; and there hasn't been a constant stream of complaints about the articles I've created.) On the other hand I've actually been writing this type of content for some time now; and here I've simply been describing what's involved. But each time I've done so, up pops FS like a jack-in-a-box, to contradict everything I write. His behaviour is not special to me: he does it to all Bach editors, hence the proposed editing restrictions. cqfd Mathsci (talk) 00:21, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- As far as I'm aware FS has very little experience editing articles on Bach's major sacred works for organ: I have written almost all of that content. (4 major articles, the last still in process; I haven't touched the Schübler Chorales, just a stub.) The initial process of creating an article as complex as this is usually performed by one person, which happened to be me. The article is changing rapidly at present. FS seems to be in complete denial of that. Instead he is still trying to force a set of distorted conclusions on others by repetitive heckling, hurling outdated and already answered comments from 2012 at me as if they were biblical curses or plagues. Statistics from 2012 do not apply now. Roughly 20,000 bytes have been added since summer 2012, mainly in 2013 and 2016. Mathsci (talk) 16:43, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is typical output from Francis Schonken (FS). It does give, however, a very good illustration of his modus operandi. In 2012 while under construction a drive-by editor (Zvart) blanked all the images in the article, a skeleton at that stage. I restored them, carefully explaining why they were there. When FS appeared at the article 4 years later, he failed to notice the difference between completed and uncompleted sections—those with and without musical analysis. 25% is finished: To do list. Here are an uncompleted group and a completed group. Other sections, e.g. Reception, are unwritten. As an article in progress, FS's "statistics" are meaningless and misleading. He has also indiscriminately reproduced other people's comments out of context to make his point. That is also what Voceditenore et al have objected to. Was there a particular reason FS chose a site banned user? Mathsci (talk) 11:40, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- IMHO this seems to be taking an undesirable WP:ASPERSION route. In an attempt to get back on topic, I just came across User talk:Zwart#August 2012:
- Isn't there a participant on wikipediocracy whose pseudonym is taken from the same fantasy series as yours? The wikipediocracy character has made several vicious and unjustified attacks on me, including charges of blatant sockpuppetry. Given your present conduct, you are probably that same person, come here to "sort me out". Thanks, Mathsci (talk) 05:00, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well yes, where one party in a content dispute refuses to engage in mediation that is telling in itself. It clearly indicates who *is* willing to discuss and who just wants to *win*. Although to lower myself to your level for a moment, if we are going through each other's editing history in order to make off-topic attacks - perhaps you would like to explain why when you came back from your ban one of the first edits you made was to an article that shares the real name of an editor you had significant disputes with in the past? Unlikely coincidence there given the name. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:53, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Would you be open to formal third party mediation Francis? Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:04, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose, but not because it's a "blatant attempt to remove dissent as part of a content dispute" (as alleged above). The problems go well beyond Mathscii's original complaint. I oppose it because it's too broad, and too long. He's been a valuable editor in many of these articles, although not a valuable colleague. I suggest we give Francis some time to reflect on what's been said here, especially, my last comment [193]. At most a 1RR restriction on the Bach articles could be imposed, but in my view, it should apply to him everywhere, and ideally Francis should impose it on himself. Voceditenore (talk) 15:28, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support: Francis has a longstanding pattern of disrupting articles and doing exactly what he has done here. He baits other editors, twists people's words, and generally engages in some very serious incivility and personal attacks. He also edits against consensus, consistently inferring that anyone's view other than his is wrong. Montanabw(talk) 19:21, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Procedural oppose No comment on the appropriateness of some form of restriction, but because "Bach's sacred music, broadly construed" is such an awkward parameter (it's difficult to "broadly construe" such a narrow, specialized topic) this TBAN should not be logged as currently worded. It should either be "Bach's music, broadly construed", "sacred music, broadly construed" or "Bach's sacred music" (no "broadly construed"). I would be happy to withdraw this !vote if the wording is fixed appropriately or the current proposed wording can (somehow) be defended. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:41, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Perhaps a temporary ban could help the editor try to contribute to other articles and get their procedures straight, their behavior has been rather brash from what I've seen and they should take some time off Anipad68 (talk) 13:45, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose Wikipedia is the open encyclopaedia. The first thing we tell new editors is to 'let it go'. Articles are under development by definition. How can we justify allowing a single editor to monopolize an article for years on end? As has been well documented, Mathsci has certain ideas about what the Orgelbüchlein article should look like. Others have other ideas and have raised issues on the talk page (like me). This is the second attempt to drive a dissenting editor away. Mathsci is hijacking Wikipedia to create a platform for his pet project(s) on Bach. What he is creating would make a great website, but it's not Wikipedia. I'm appalled that the question of blocking a dissenting editor for 6 months should even come up in this case. The problem clearly lies elsewhere, namely in repeated and belligerent attempts to keep well-meaning editors out. (And I'm not even going to address the condescending phrase 'drive-by editor' and raise the question how that is compatible with Wikipedia being the open encyclopaedia.) Zwart (talk) 19:36, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's not being monopolised or hijacked: it's being written, e.g. yesterday's edits. Here is Zwart's most significant edit to the article from 2012.[194] He read the following in the lede, "The Orgelbüchlein is at the same time a collection of organ music for church services, a treatise on composition, a religious statement and a pedagogical manual." He objected to "a religious statement" which he blanked as "religious POV pushing" along with most of the images. That sentence was an enlarged paraphrase of a summary in Stinson (1999, p. 25): "The Orgelbüchlein is simultaneously a compositional treatise, a collection of liturgical organ music, an organ method, and a theological statement." So just a paraphrase, not religious POV pushing. This provides context for evaluating Zwart's comments here and below. Mathsci (talk) 22:45, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
- This comment proves my point. If you look at yesterday's edits they are all by Mathsci (except for one typo edit). And this comment inside a poll is another blatant attempt to silence dissent. Mathsci's point in asking to block Francis Schoncken is simply this: let me finish my project. But that is not the way Wikipedia works. If people feel an article has issues, that should be discussed at any time. In this case, a simple solution would be to create separate articles for the individual pieces and let Mathsci work on those articles at his leisure, so that we can start a discussion on how to improve the main page. Incidentally, Stinson's remarks on the religious nature of the Orgelbüchlein (esp. p. 34) are entirely speculative, but if we go by Stinson's authority, we should also conclude that the work has a clear pedagogical purpose (pp. 29-34), a master showing the art of organ improvisation, which is why we should focus on the music and leave the liturgical context for articles on the hymns themselves. Even if this is not immediately obvious to everyone, it is a valid point that deserves to be discussed openly. That is why this proposal, and this attempt to discredit an opponent, is so objectionable and un-Wikipedian.Zwart (talk) 22:21, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
The Orgelbüchlein's highest purpose, however, like that of Bach's music in general, is of a religious nature: service to God and the edification of humankind. It is summed up by the rhyming couplet—essentially a dedication—that concludes the title, and that bears repeating here: Dem höchsten Gott allein̍ zu Ehren, Dem Nechsten, draus sich zu belehren (which Hans David and Arthur Mendel poetically translated as “In Praise of the Almighty's Will, And for my Neighbor's Greater Skill”). Like other previously discussed portions, this couplet, too, may have been borrowed from an item in Bach's personal library, the Gesangbüchlein of Michael Weisse, published in 1531, which ends with the couplet: Gott allein zu lob und ehr / Und seinn auserwelten zur leer (“For the praise and honor of God alone, and for the edification of his chosen ones”). Not only do Bach and Weisse express the same message, but they also use the same phraseology and rhyme scheme (“ehr” and “lehr”). And in addition to being a hymnal, Weisse's collection, like Ammerbach's Tabulatur, also parallels the Orgelbüchlein in its use of the term “Büchlein.”
Any connection to Weisse, however, is of secondary significance compared to the couplet's apparent biblical derivation, which would seem to reveal its true meaning. The scriptural source in question is one that has always occupied an important position in Christian liturgy. Known as Christ's “Summary of the Law,” it reads: “Thou shalt love the Lord Thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:37–40). Basically an extension of his more common slogan Soli Deo Gloria (“To God Alone the Glory”), Bach's little couplet proclaims that his music has both a divine and worldly purpose, in accordance with Jesus' teachings. Ultimately, then, the Orgelbüchlein may be understood as its composer's response to the New Testament.
This text is deemed to be irrelevant speculation by Zwart. Stinson is just elaborating on Bach's dedication on the title page "Dem Höchsten Gott allein̍ zu Ehren". All we do on wikipedia is summarise and paraphrase. It is a form of plagiarism. I haven't in fact used any of the above text so far, although I paraphrased three words from the beginning of Stinson's section "Purpose". Mathsci (talk) 00:16, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for your detailed explanation. However, "The Orgelbüchlein is [...] a religious statement [...]" appears in the article without reference. Not to Bach, not to Stinson.
- @Mathsci: the applicable policy is in WP:BURDEN (a part of Wikipedia's Verifiability policy): "Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source." Yet you re-introduced the "religious statement" material twice ([195], [196]) without an appropriate reference. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:41, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- We don't normally add citations in the lede as you well know. (The old article looked like this,[197] a bare list with errors in the lede and no inline citations.) Your comments here (and your mass tagging of BWV 4) sum up fairly clearly why your editing is going to be restricted. You have made a series of negative and inappropriate statements about Stinson (1999), an impeccable academic source. You've said the same about Williams (2003). You have also claimed that other contemporary sources are being ignored. If you penned a letter of complaint to Oxford University Press about bias in Stinson's book, it would go straight in the wastepaper bin (where it belongs). Both BWV 77 and BWV 4 had religious images in the infobox until I uploaded high-resolution images of the autograph manuscripts. So much for religious POV pushing (the claim you made when adding a giant POV tag at the top of Orgelbüchlein). Mathsci (talk) 12:13, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Suggestion: Strict BRD
Francis Schonken simply adheres to strict WP:BRD, for edits and page moves. If an edit is reverted, he has to find consensus on the article talk page. If his version is good it will find acceptance easily. - I just explained the idea to a new user yesterday. - I try to follow that concept, that's why I reverted only the first of his page moves, not the second and the third.
- Support as proposer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment Gerda, I would support something like this, but I suggest you make some changes to your proposal to make it less vague. First, re-title it Restricted to 1RR. While WP:BRD, is a widely accepted norm, it's an essay and too open to interpretation and gaming in this case. Francis has consistently shown that he equates his pronouncements on talk pages as automatically correct, considers making these pronouncements a sufficient "discussion", and heads off to revert again. Second, make it clear in the actual proposal that he must not perform more than one revert on a single page, except his user pages, in any month. His troublesome edit-warring extends far beyond article space and in my view, anything less than a month is insufficient. Third, you should specify how long the restriction should last. I'd suggest 6 months. Voceditenore (talk) 11:33, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Voceditenore proposal: much tighter, less wriggle-room, more likely to work. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 11:54, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- My ANI experience - thank goodness - is limited, and I want to keep it that way. - How about you making a proposal, and rename mine suggestion? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:28, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- OK Gerda, I've changed your "Proposal" to "Suggestion". Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, if you do want to support the tightened version, it would be best to !vote again below to avoid confusion. Voceditenore (talk) 15:50, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- My ANI experience - thank goodness - is limited, and I want to keep it that way. - How about you making a proposal, and rename mine suggestion? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:28, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
Proposal: Francis Schonken Restricted to 1RR
Francis Schonken is restricted to one revert per page in any calendar month. The restriction is to last 6 months and applies to all pages except his own user and user talk pages.
Per my comment immediately above, the problematic edit-warring and bulldozing tactics extend beyond article space, and well beyond Bach's sacred music, and in my view anything less than six months is insufficient. Hopefully, his "my way or the highway" approach will improve with being forced either to make his case via a collaborative discussion or walking away from the page for at least a month. The choice will be his. Voceditenore (talk) 15:50, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
Note that while 1RR is usually within a 24-hour period, there appears to be no restriction on the WP:1RR page on making it longer than 24 hours. In this case, I feel a month is more appropriate to avoid "slow" edit-warring and encourage genuine discussion on the talk page. If Francis's edit gains consensus, then it can be implemented by another party to the discussion as soon as consensus is reached. There is also the alternative of 0RR restriction, i.e. Francis can make no reverts at all for a six-month period. I'll leave that to someone else if they want to propose it, but that precludes him even removing good faith silliness like "Many people think this fugue is boring." Voceditenore (talk) 05:29, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support (as proposer) Voceditenore (talk) 15:50, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Creates a clear blue line for all editors; one that should be easy to not cross, but, one which it is easy to see when it has been. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 15:53, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support This seems like a reasonable rescue package. Mathsci (talk) 16:46, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support. This is a smart proposal, better than those above. It needs to be made quite clear to Francis Schonken that neither his high-handed and uncollaborative approach to editing nor his combative attitude to other editors is acceptable here, and this seems a fair way of achieving that. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 07:01, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support what I recommended above, thank you, Voceditenore! - Francis, just today I remember that I had disagreements with Nikkimaria in the past (example: Peter Planyavsky) but now we write articles together, I had disagreements with Smerus but now we write articles together: I hope for the same with you, some day, then unrestricted. It would be another most welcome feast of joy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:32, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Tx, same for me, and convinced it will work. --Francis Schonken (talk) 07:42, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have an article in mind for soon, 16th Sunday after Trinity, so about 4 months to get to GA and DYK for Liebster Gott, wenn werd ich sterben? BWV 8. Go ahead if you like. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:54, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support This proposal seems the one most likely to produce a reasonable outcome. Something is needed given that several good editors are having difficulty working with FS. Further, FS appears to endorse this proposal. Johnuniq (talk) 12:05, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oops, no, sorry, should have been clearer. I only replied to the last thing she said. The person who should have known me better by now chose not to. I decided to concentrate on the silver lining. And off go people jumping to wrong conclusions again. Please once and for all spare me of that. --Francis Schonken (talk) 12:54, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support: In my view, harsher treatment would have been fully justified, but perhaps this moderate approach will prove effective. The edit immediately above does not give me great confidence that it will. Gerda's generosity in the circumstances is amazing. Brianboulton (talk) 14:40, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support: Long overdue. Montanabw(talk) 05:56, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - I was combing some of the case files to see what was ready to close, and after reading this one, I was inspired to comment. Wouldn't it be a welcome improvement to the entire DR process if more editors would conduct themselves the way Gerda Arendt and Francis Schonken did in this section despite their opposing views? Kudos. Atsme📞📧 06:05, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well yeah; although it took one of the parties an ANI report and a near-site ban for it to happen! FortunaImperatrix Mundi 06:21, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, it took the other party learning by AE, learning that it's not the way forward I mean, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:48, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well yeah; although it took one of the parties an ANI report and a near-site ban for it to happen! FortunaImperatrix Mundi 06:21, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - This is a mild, common-sense measure for dealing with the problem of edit warring.Homemade Pencils (talk) 12:54, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support It's a constructive way of dealing with the issue, and gives Francis Schonken a chance to demonstrate he can refrain from the behavior several third-party editors have alluded to which is causing the problem. loupgarous (talk) 10:29, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Voceditenore's counter-proposal. It allows Francis Schonken to continue making contributions which other editors have demonstrated he can make, while drawing a bright line which he crosses at the risk of worse sanctions, such as a topic ban. No criticism implied of Gerda Arendt, I wouldn't have come up with the tightly-drawn proposal that Voceditenore did, either. This gives Francis Schonken a chance to show he's here to edit an encyclopedia. If he blows that chance, stronger sanctions are in order. loupgarous (talk) 10:25, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
Support Hopefully this will improve matters. Mathsci (talk) 14:07, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
- Mathsci, you need to strike this second "Support" or replace "Support" with "Comment". You've already !voted "Support" higher up in this section. Voceditenore (talk) 09:39, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
Done Mathsci (talk) 09:57, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Mathsci, you need to strike this second "Support" or replace "Support" with "Comment". You've already !voted "Support" higher up in this section. Voceditenore (talk) 09:39, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose Francis Schonken is not the problem, it's the way the Orgelbüchlein article is being monopolized. What's to prevent the next 'drive-by editor' from running into the same problems with Mathsci? Zwart (talk) 19:45, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
- By definition, a "drive-by" editor is one who hasn't edited an article before, comes by to screw around with things, and then leaves. They don't make major additions and changes to the article such as Mathsci has done, so calling him a "drive-by editor" is inaccurate, and rather insulting given the circumstances. BMK (talk) 01:57, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Already answered above.[198] Zwart's drive-by edits to Orgelbüchlein (in 2012) involved blanking the phrase "a religious statement" from the lede, a simple paraphrase from Stinson (1999), who used the words "a theological statement". Zwart described this as religious POV pushing. Above Zwart wrote,[199] "Mathsci is hijacking Wikipedia to create a platform for his pet project(s) on Bach. What he is creating would make a great website, but it's not Wikipedia". Perhaps he's thinking of the Dutch wikipedia. Mathsci (talk) 05:54, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- No, in fact I am thinking of the global Wikipedia, where everyone is invited to contribute.Zwart (talk) 22:33, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- What is "the global Wikipedia"? As far as I am aware there are many separate Wikipedias, each with somewhat different rules of usage and behavior, but all under the umbrella of the WMF, and subject to its overarching regulations. There is no one "global" Wikipedia. BMK (talk) 01:40, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- No, in fact I am thinking of the global Wikipedia, where everyone is invited to contribute.Zwart (talk) 22:33, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - BMK (talk) 01:57, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment I don't have much to say about the issue or proposals, but a comment for both Mathsci and Francis Schonken: You should try to be extra friendly to and patient with each other, even when you disagree with each other. I think that will make you both happier with the experience of working on the articles, and with the resulting articles themselves. Goldenshimmer (talk) 14:52, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, as requested in your mail, I won't ping again unless required by policy. Goldenshimmer (talk) 17:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, btw, feel free to ping me though; I don't generally mind. Goldenshimmer (talk) 17:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Mathsci: Please remember to assume good faith and be civil. Thanks. Goldenshimmer (talk) 17:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, btw, feel free to ping me though; I don't generally mind. Goldenshimmer (talk) 17:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. What I do is connecting several articles (on Bach, his compositions, the Lutheran chorales he used for these, etc.) Once and awhile one encounters WP:Walled gardens (church cantatas, organ preludes, remote passions). An example: extracting a section of a "remote passion" article to a separate article. Most of the time such WP:SPLIT, WP:MERGE, etc. operations are understood for what they are (application of Wikipedia:Article size, WP:PRIMARY, WP:Image policy, or whatever is applicable). Here's where I sometimes go wrong: I sometimes forget that the Walled garden gardeners are sometimes scarcely aware of these underlying policies and guidelines (so I should take more time to explain), follow their own set of guidelines (which sometimes may be based in guidance I'm less aware of), etc. So the "...extra friendly to and patient with each other" is probably something I needed to hear. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:41, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
- No problem @Francis Schonken:. I do understand that Wikipedia (as with life in general) can often be frustrating, so I can certainly sympathise :) Goldenshimmer (talk) 04:42, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- I actually like your image of the Bach cantatas as a walled garden, - it's walled for protection. Many gardeners planted, many (partly others) fertilized, pruned etc. You are invited to join the crew (see above): there's a bell at the door of the wall called article talk. Jumping the wall and changing the layout of flowerbeds to confirm with "policies and guidelines" is not good for the plants, - when the layout is "wrong" it can be changed the next season. - On top of the cantata mentioned above, I plan to improve Komm, du süße Todesstunde, BWV 161, to FA (first performance likely 1716), - you are invited to take part from the beginning. Please feel free to add a section about publication, - you know a lot about such things. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:39, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, as requested in your mail, I won't ping again unless required by policy. Goldenshimmer (talk) 17:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support – Voceditenore's suggestion for dealing with the problem is measured, non-punitive and practical. Tim riley talk 15:37, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose. Francis's conduct may be inappropriate, but so is the insistence of some editors on maintaining this set of articles as a walled garden. Gerda Arendt's comment above in support of the walled garden makes it very clear the some editors want to maintain these articles under the control of a clique, to which they will control access. Rather than singling out one editor, it would be much better to apply 1RR to the whole set of articles, so that all editors working there would be subject to the same restriction. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:04, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- There is no clique. You misunderstood my comment, walled garden is only an image I took literally, - everybody is welcome to improve, but not by repeated reverts to establish a preferred version. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:28, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt, on the contrary I understood your comment very clearly. You celebrated the erection a wall around these articles, which a bell at the gate -- and it's very clear that you celebrated the purpose of such a bell at a gate as being to allow those already inside to decide who is permitted to enter. Since there is no physical wall, that's clearly a metaphor for a clique which wants to vet newcomers.
- I quite agree that nobody should edit by repeated reverts, which is why I propose applying 1RR to all editors who work on those pages. By opposing my suggestion of 1RR-for-all, you are demanding that some editors of those pages be exempt from 1RR. Why? --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 13:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I didn't oppose your oppose, I only tried to clarify. I didn't celebrate. I don't allow. The decision is not who may enter, but what content may enter, and it is not made by me but the community. Try to improve articles I watch and see what I do. Perhaps do a GA review, four are open, all Bach compositions, found on my user page or here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:16, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- There is no clique. You misunderstood my comment, walled garden is only an image I took literally, - everybody is welcome to improve, but not by repeated reverts to establish a preferred version. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:28, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose after reading this long storm-in-a-teacup and support the universal 1RR proposal of User:BrownHairedGirl. Xxanthippe (talk) 06:27, 4 June 2016 (UTC).
- I don't see such a proposal worded so far. What would be the scope? It has been mentioned in this proposal that it's "beyond article space, and well beyond Bach's sacred music". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Xxanthippe was referring to my proposal above, which was "to apply 1RR to the whole set of articles, so that all editors working there would be subject to the same restriction". By "the whole set", I meant the same scope as was chosen by Softlavender in their proposed topic ban of Francis: "Bach's sacred music, broadly construed".
- So if you want it all in one sentence, my proposal is for "1RR to apply to all pages relating to Bach's sacred music, broadly construed". --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 08:10, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: here's Gerda Arendt removing a link to Bach's second cantata cycle from the article on Bach's first cantata – twice in less than 24H: 19:42, 19 March 2016; 07:02, 20 March 2016
- It also illustrates a typical WP:Walled garden operation: the Bach's second cantata cycle content being outside of the walled garden content controlled by her, she removes links to it from the articles inside the walled garden – see the definition of walled garden in the essay linked to above: "... a walled garden is a set of pages or articles that link to each other, but do not have any links to or from anything outside the group".
- Gerda keeping to 1RR according to her self-declarations is incorrect. Imposing 1RR per BrownHairedGirl's proposal would inconvenience Gerda in her attempts to keep up walls that shouldn't be there in the first place. --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:53, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Context: In March, Bach's second cantata cycle was a redirect to Chorale cantata (Bach), which was linked in that article before. The redirect was since deleted and is now a redirect to Chorale cantata cycle which was created only later. - My second edit was a revert of not bolding the redirect, I probably didn't even even see that you, Francis, had linked again in the same edit. I linked to the cycle now, no problem. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment I don't know what inspired Brianboulton to this drive-by blanking performed on the article under discussion here, discussing blanking on that article, during these discussions, which they were well aware of (see their !vote above). Just pointing out that there too all links to the chorale cantata cycle/second cantata cycle article were removed. Brianboulton's revert linked to above even re-introduced this WP:EGG link to the in-wall article on Bach's chorale cantatas, pretending it is the article on the cycle: [[Chorale cantata (Bach) chorale cycle]] --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:07, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I added that link on 30 May, and it is currently in the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:18, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- My point being that Brianboulton's drive-by blanking was part of the "bad behaviour" pattern BrownHairedGirl seems to be alluding to below (we shouldn't be governing mainspace content by large-scale reverts, followed by re-reverts), but the proposed remedy (1RR) would be ineffective for this example of "drive-by" reverting, followed by a host of further reverts by other editors.
- For instance this edit was a partial revert of Brianboulton's revert, without the edit summary ("Bach digital sources") even indicating it was, in fact, a re-revert. On a secondary note, by not indicating that edit as a revert it seemed to introduce that material in the article for the first time, while, in fact, it was a redo of material I had introduced in the article before Brianboulton's massive revert. That way it is of course easy to paint an unfavorable picture of my edits: when I do the edit it gets reverted, then someone else re-introduces it, apparently claiming it as their own. So indeed, time to put a stop to the bad blood going around here, but I fear the 1RR may not be effective enough.
- That said, I'd plead for reason here, which may be more effective than selective measures. --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Repeating a lie does not make it truthful; Francis's several references to my "drive-by blankings" are further examples of his manipulative attempts to distort the truth. As he knows full well, when reverting the Christ lag article to the version that existed before he began his bulldozing treatment, I fully explained what I was doing on the article's talk page, my main concern being that this recent FA and TFA should not be left in a trashed state while changes to its content were argued over. I ended by saying: "I have done this as a housekeeping arrangement, not as a judgement on the worthiness or otherwise of the changes that have been proposed. That is a matter for the content experts to decide, now with a clean sheet and, hopefully, an atmosphere of mutual respect." Is it impossible for you, Francis, to begin working in this way? It is certainly not for you to lecture us about "putting a stop to the bad blood going around here" or "pleading for reason", since you alone are the principal source of the ill-feeling. It is down to you to change.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Brianboulton (talk • contribs) 13:41, 4 June 2016
- I don't see such a proposal worded so far. What would be the scope? It has been mentioned in this proposal that it's "beyond article space, and well beyond Bach's sacred music". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:59, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support. This seems to currently be the best way to prevent the bullying, bulldozing, and uncollabortive editing and the driving away of other editors. Softlavender (talk) 07:04, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Proposal: 1RR applied to Bach's sacred music
All pages within the topic of Bach's sacred music, broadly construed, are subject to WP:1RR.
This would restrain Francis Schonken from edit-warring, as sought by the other proposals above. However, it would also restrain the editors who have been using this ANI discussion to try gain the upper hand in their own edit-warring, such as these two reverts[200] [201] in the less than 12 hours by Gerda Arendt, who has supported[202] the 1RR on Francis Schonken.
There is too much bad behaviour on all sides here. It's time for an even-handed restraint on all the editors involved. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support as proposer. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support for even-handedness. There are several editors showing WP:Ownership issues. Xxanthippe (talk) 09:50, 4 June 2016 (UTC).
- Oppose Not a carefully thought-out proposal. It isn't based on a proper assessment of the editing of Bach's sacred music. It also might accidentally discourage content creation, which can be highly technical, time-consuming and elaborate. That applies not only to the creation of text but to the creation of image and audio files. Two examples are: File:Weimar Christoph Riegel 1686.jpeg, an image of the buildings in Weimar as Bach would have known them (after the rebuilding of the Schloss in 1656 and before the fire of 1774), created from 4 tiles, unearthed on the 939th page of a digitised 1686 Nuremberg manuscript held in Münster University Library; and File:BWV622-organ.mid with its registration and elaborate ornamentation. Once created these articles are usually stable, e.g. BWV 105, created by me in 2008 and translated word-by-word by someone else for the French article on fr.wikipedia.org. In cantata articles, which many people edit, there are no hard and fast rules. Some have images of autograph manuscripts, some don't; some have associated articles on hymns, some don't; some have infoboxes, some don't; some have religious images, some don't. Mathsci (talk) 11:19, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Most of that long paragraph is irrelevant to this discussion. This proposal is not about the content or structure of these articles; it is about holding all editors working on those pages to a standard of conduct which helps to avoid edit wars. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 11:52, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Edit warring was not the problem. Francis Schonken was challenging the structure of BWV 4 (and BWV 625) in disruptive ways designed to halt or discourage editing. His disruptive editing/tagging of BWV 4, a month or so after it became a featured article, was all rolled back. Christ lag in Todesbanden is just one of many Lutheran hymns; Francis Schonken behaved as if he were Lord and Master of the fiefdom of Christ lag in Todesbanden. It was all completely out of proportion. Mathsci (talk) 08:25, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Most of that long paragraph is irrelevant to this discussion. This proposal is not about the content or structure of these articles; it is about holding all editors working on those pages to a standard of conduct which helps to avoid edit wars. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 11:52, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose. Problem is not with ownership, but with one editor who bullies, edit-wars, bulldozes, and drives away good-faith editors. Softlavender (talk) 07:43, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose My proposal concerning Francis Schonken restricted to 1RR above does not apply solely to the Bach pages, it would apply to all pages in all spaces (apart from his own) for six months. This may have been brought here as a Bach dispute, but his editwarring, uncooperative, bulldozing behaviour goes well beyond that and has been going on for years. He has been blocked 6 times for editwarring on Wikipedia, only once for a Bach page. Other times when he has escaped a block either because the ANI discussions petered out or he just got lucky but where his behaviour was very inappropriate include: a WikiProject talk page [203]; an article talk page [204]; another user's talk page (once, twice, three times and final warning here); and this illustrative, sequence concerning his editwarring and aggressive behaviour on a Wikipedia Education course page. If you want to make an additional proposal restricting everyone to 1RR on the Bach pages, fine, but I cannot support this as a replacement for Proposal: Francis Schonken Restricted to 1RR. Voceditenore (talk) 10:51, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose The problem is one editor and there is no reason to believe there would be any issues if FS were encouraged to edit elsewhere for a couple of months. Johnuniq (talk) 10:55, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Facing harassment
| ALongStay has agreed to not mention GaragePunk. Any mentions or editing on any article that Garage Punk has edited will result in an indefinite block. -- GB fan 23:48, 6 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am facing a serious issue of harassment from User:ALongStay, who has nominated two articles for deletion. While there is nothing, in and of itself, wrong with doing that, he does not have the right to be going about it this way. I believe him to be passing himself off as an editor I know, in order to strike discord. ALongStay was blocked at Christmas time, for doing the same thing. LongStay then had a twin editor, ABriefPassing, who was doing at that time too and got indefinitely blocked. ALongStay should also be permanently blocked. He has also threatened to do damage as an unregistered user. I need intervention in this situation, because it threatens my ability to continue to do work here. Garagepunk66 (talk) 18:00, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- You need to provide diffs to evidence your points. Very difficult to research such vague allegations. I note, for a start, that your intimation that BrefPassing's block was somehow censurous is misleading: it was blocked as being 'abandoned.' I also note you have been canvassing against this editor, here,here, and here- over most of the day. MuffledPocketed 18:02, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- If I can chime in Fortuna, it appears that ALongStay was unblocked, per the guideline of a one-way interaction ban here: [205]. Today on their user page, they posted this message to GaragePunk: [206]. That to me would be a violation of the interaction ban, and as a result a violation of the terms of their unblocking. RickinBaltimore (talk) 18:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Rick both of your links go to the same diff. -- GBfan 18:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Fixed, sorry about that! RickinBaltimore (talk) 18:22, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Rick both of your links go to the same diff. -- GBfan 18:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- If I can chime in Fortuna, it appears that ALongStay was unblocked, per the guideline of a one-way interaction ban here: [205]. Today on their user page, they posted this message to GaragePunk: [206]. That to me would be a violation of the interaction ban, and as a result a violation of the terms of their unblocking. RickinBaltimore (talk) 18:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I see no evidence of harassment. I do see evidence of Garagepunk assuming bad faith in the face of rather obvious agreement that at least one of these articles is trivia that should be merged to the barely-notable parent band article. Guy (Help!) 18:10, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Oh Garagepunk66 I wish you hadn't taken this route especially as unprepared as you are. First off, no diffs, big no-no. Secondly, I was allowed to change accounts because I admitted to its use and stopped using it. Also, I was blocked for my confrontational messages, not Afds. Fourthly, I never said I'd do damage as an unregistered editor, I simply said I'd return to IP editing to avoid conflict with people like you. Boomerang may be in order if you keep this up.ALongStay (talk) 18:07, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Additional, one cannot say I broke the interaction ban for the diff above because Garagepunk66 messaged me firstALongStay (talk) 18:22, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- You also nominated an article created by Garagepunk for deletion, (Would I Still Be) Her Big Man. here you were told that was part of the ban. -- GBfan 18:28, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- But have I harassed him? Have I committed any of the accusations he has brought about? Garagepunk even admitted in the opening Afds were ok.ALongStay (talk) 18:37, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I haven't dug into that enough, but your unblock conditions were that you would leave Garagepunk alone, no interaction. If they were working on an article you wanted top work on you needed to find something else to do. You have not lived up to the conditions of your unblock. Why shouldn't I reblock you? -- GB fan 18:41, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Also Garagepunk does not have the authority to modify your unblock conditions. -- GBfan 18:42, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- You can do as you please, but the re block would be to punish me, not to teach me a lesson. I've learned from the last block which was the whole point. Garagepunk had no issue stated here with it, but, again, do as you please.ALongStay (talk) 18:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- The reblock would not be to punish you, it would be to stop your disruption. You were put under a strict interaction ban that said you were not to interact with Garagepunk. No submitting articles for AFD, no editing any article where they are already editing. I see two AFDs that you have created on articles that Garagepunk created, one and two. I also see at least one other article that they created that you have edited, here. If you have learned your lesson, why are you violating the terms of your last unblock? -- GB fan 19:00, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- You can do as you please, but the re block would be to punish me, not to teach me a lesson. I've learned from the last block which was the whole point. Garagepunk had no issue stated here with it, but, again, do as you please.ALongStay (talk) 18:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- But have I harassed him? Have I committed any of the accusations he has brought about? Garagepunk even admitted in the opening Afds were ok.ALongStay (talk) 18:37, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- You also nominated an article created by Garagepunk for deletion, (Would I Still Be) Her Big Man. here you were told that was part of the ban. -- GBfan 18:28, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
My lesson was on how I communicated with editors. I was hostile but ever since then I have acted neutral. There has been no disruption from my recent editing, but valid Afds and minor edits. Say anything you want, but another block would be as punishment since I haven't done anything wrong with those edits you mentioned. So go ahead, block me for valid Afds and minor edits.ALongStay (talk) 19:05, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Why are you violating the terms of your unblock? -- GBfan 19:08, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I saw articles that I thought failed notability. I started making minor edits because I wanted to move away from Afds after these were taken care of. Music articles are all I'm interested in so that's why. Honestly, if you are going to block me just do it already. I apologize if what I did is considered disruptive, but from what I see my lesson was taught and I was making genuine edits.ALongStay (talk) 19:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Did I ever say I was going to reblock you? I haven't made up my mind, I am trying to understand why you are doing the things you are doing and why you feel the terms of the unblock no longer apply. -- GBfan 19:20, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I saw articles that I thought didn't pass notability. Clearly, others agreed, so it wasn't like I was doing it to spite others. I changed my ways of communicating, which I strongly thought meant I could have a second chance at free-editing. In this case, I guess I was wrong, but it came from a good place. It wasn't meant to rebel or act out, but rather prove the interaction ban was no longer neccessary.ALongStay (talk) 19:41, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- When you think you have changed enough for editing restrictions to be removed you talk about it. In this case you need to go back to the admin that placed those restrictions and ask for them to be lifted. The problem is you have already breached them and that does not look good. You do not get to decide when those editing restrictions are lifted. I would suggest you follow the restrictions closely for a couple of months and then go back and ask for them to be lifted showing your changed attitude. -- GBfan 19:48, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, sounds fair. To address the other accusations Garagepunk brought up, I will say out-right they are false. All you will find is him canvassing (as one user said above) to favor his side. I made a mistake, yes, but I cannot accept the lies he has said here sitting down. Other than that, I feel the terms are more than fair and I will follow them.ALongStay (talk) 19:55, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- When you think you have changed enough for editing restrictions to be removed you talk about it. In this case you need to go back to the admin that placed those restrictions and ask for them to be lifted. The problem is you have already breached them and that does not look good. You do not get to decide when those editing restrictions are lifted. I would suggest you follow the restrictions closely for a couple of months and then go back and ask for them to be lifted showing your changed attitude. -- GBfan 19:48, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I saw articles that I thought didn't pass notability. Clearly, others agreed, so it wasn't like I was doing it to spite others. I changed my ways of communicating, which I strongly thought meant I could have a second chance at free-editing. In this case, I guess I was wrong, but it came from a good place. It wasn't meant to rebel or act out, but rather prove the interaction ban was no longer neccessary.ALongStay (talk) 19:41, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Did I ever say I was going to reblock you? I haven't made up my mind, I am trying to understand why you are doing the things you are doing and why you feel the terms of the unblock no longer apply. -- GBfan 19:20, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I saw articles that I thought failed notability. I started making minor edits because I wanted to move away from Afds after these were taken care of. Music articles are all I'm interested in so that's why. Honestly, if you are going to block me just do it already. I apologize if what I did is considered disruptive, but from what I see my lesson was taught and I was making genuine edits.ALongStay (talk) 19:15, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- LongStay posted a message about someone called "Boomerang" under my AFI notification, and I take that to be a thinly veiled attack. I have not mentioned any of my broader concerns here, but if this situation does not cool out, I am going to have to take this whole matter to a higher level and have checkbusters brought in to get to the bottom of what is going in here. Back off so I can get my editing work done. Garagepunk66 (talk) 20:30, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:ALongStay, I have closed boths AfDs as speedy keep, as you unambiguously broke your interaction ban. Other thsn this thread it is still in place. Do not breach it again. User:Garagepunk66, the reference was to WP:BOOMERANG - when a report backfires on the filer. Fences&Windows 22:37, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- LongStay posted a message about someone called "Boomerang" under my AFI notification, and I take that to be a thinly veiled attack. I have not mentioned any of my broader concerns here, but if this situation does not cool out, I am going to have to take this whole matter to a higher level and have checkbusters brought in to get to the bottom of what is going in here. Back off so I can get my editing work done. Garagepunk66 (talk) 20:30, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Fences and Windows I will go along with that. As long as Garagepunk's ridiculous accusations are dropped, I am content with the decisions.ALongStay (talk) 23:28, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Beyond My Ken using sockpuppets to make personal attacks and edit war
| BASELESS | |
| no evidence presented that the IP and BMK are the same person. --Jayron32 03:53, 7 June 2016 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Beyond My Ken left an unpleasant message on my talk page, telling me I "clearly don't have a scintilla of a clue" and saying "Stop that shit, please".[207] I deleted the message and referred the user to WP:NPA.[208] Someone editing from an IP address restored the content, in contravention of WP:TPO, saying "looks like fair comment rather than a personal attack".[209] That IP's only previous edit had been made an hour earlier, when they remade a disputed edit by User:Beyond My Ken: ([210], following [211] and [212]).
Clearly, the IP is User:Beyond My Ken. And clearly, they did not just inadvertently log out, but wanted to create an illusion of support. I see that this user has been blocked a number of times, once being for abusive use of multiple accounts. Thus, it seems that this problematic behaviour is recurring. 83.52.84.186 (talk) 03:05, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- How do you come to that conclusion? Or are you being sarcastic? 83.52.84.186 (talk) 03:38, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- But let me just add that I also don't have a scintilla of clue: BMK has also reverted me for removing the useless, redundant, non-neutral, and vague "noted" (redundant because if someone isn't "noted", whatever that means, they shouldn't be cited). Drmies (talk) 03:11, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- As much as it pains me to disagree with Drmies, "noted" is a NPOV way of indicating that the person cited isn't just your run-of-the-mill reliable source, it's someone with a very good reputation in their field. We don't want to say "world-renowned" or "famous" or "the bestsest one there is" or things of that nature, but the fact is that some sources are simply more authoritative than others, and carry more weight. If Einstein says it, it's most likely of more value than if Dr. Sam Physicist from Hardly Heardof University says it -- not that Einstein was always right, but you get the idea. NPOV doesn't mean that we cannot assign relative values to things - we could hardly be an encyclopedia if we didn't - and "noted" is simply a gentle way of saying "this person is well-known, an expert, or a trusted authority on this subject." BMK (talk) 03:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, that's easily fixed. Just change your mind. People who aren't well-known or an expert shouldn't be cited: the word is redundant. Drmies (talk) 03:41, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- It is not NPOV. It is exactly as unacceptable as "famous" or "world-renowned". 83.52.84.186 (talk) 03:33, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'll say that BMK's message to the IP maybe could have been a little nicer, but that's about it. The accused IP has reverted two articles after BMK twice (see contribs), but I'm not seeing any unambiguous proof to back up the sock puppetry accusations beyond that (which isn't enough in itself, to me). ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:15, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- What would you consider to be "unambiguous proof"? 83.52.84.186 (talk) 03:33, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Regardless, BMK is clearly edit warring. OldTraffordLover (talk) 03:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Surprise!! OldTraffordLover is an account created yesterday. And here they are. In fact, their very first edit was to AN/I, and all of their 17 edits have been to Wikipedia space or User talk pages. It doesn't take much to see this is an account created for a specific purpose, and that purpose is not improving the encyclopedia. BMK (talk) 03:31, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- BMK, I have my questions about this editor also, but to categorize them as NOTHERE without any proof is not OK. Some of their edits appear to have been helpful, and offered in good faith. Hey, to paraphrase Cullen's phrase--just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're NOTHERE. Drmies (talk) 03:53, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- If you're referring to OldTraffordLover, we disagree again. This editor is clearly NOTHERE, as least as far my perception is concerned -- but, there again, you have another reason why I should never be an admin, 'cause if I was, I'd block him immediately. Dead weight is dead weight. BMK (talk) 04:10, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- BMK, I have my questions about this editor also, but to categorize them as NOTHERE without any proof is not OK. Some of their edits appear to have been helpful, and offered in good faith. Hey, to paraphrase Cullen's phrase--just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're NOTHERE. Drmies (talk) 03:53, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Surprise!! OldTraffordLover is an account created yesterday. And here they are. In fact, their very first edit was to AN/I, and all of their 17 edits have been to Wikipedia space or User talk pages. It doesn't take much to see this is an account created for a specific purpose, and that purpose is not improving the encyclopedia. BMK (talk) 03:31, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Faulty Logic 101: "BMK disagreed with me. An IP editor disagreed with me, and agreed with BMK. Therefore, the IP editor is a sockpuppet of BMK."
- Another possibility: Two entirely different people disagree with you.
- OP, Please go back to school and kick your brain into high gear. BMK, kindness is a virtue. Thank you. Cullen328Let's discuss it 03:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Kindness is a virtue when people deserve kindness; not everyone does. Certainly sockpuppets, puppetmasters, trolls, and vandals are not deserving of kindness. I'm not sure which category the brand-spanking-new 83 IP falls into, but it's certainly one of those, unless you believe that fully functioning Wikipedia editors are created ex nihilo, like Athena from the head of Zeus. BMK (talk) 03:37, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- You think that the IP could be someone entirely unrelated to Beyond My Ken? You can't seriously think that's plausible. Also, don't make personal attacks. 83.52.84.186 (talk) 03:33, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- OP, Please go back to school and kick your brain into high gear. BMK, kindness is a virtue. Thank you. Cullen328Let's discuss it 03:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- OP has gotten their trolling jollies. Someone please close this utter rot ASAP. MarnetteDTalk 03:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- What are you talking about? 83.52.84.186 (talk) 03:36, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I think it's better to wait for admin action or a clear decision by an admin that action will not occur before considering closing. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:38, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oshwah So you consider this trolling to be okay. I thought you had a better understanding of life around here - to me you've proved that time and again - so I am bummed out about this post. It is sad to see you approve this attack on BMK that has a total lack of examples to be worthy of anyone's - especially an asmin's - time. MarnetteDTalk 03:45, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- MarnetteD - I'm not saying that at all. Trolling is never okay. But the IP should be blocked or action taken before we close the thread. We can always revert trolling and attacks - that's what I meant by my previous post. I apologize if my reply confused you or implied anything different. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:50, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Who are you accusing of trolling, and why? 83.52.84.186 (talk) 04:12, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- MarnetteD - I'm not saying that at all. Trolling is never okay. But the IP should be blocked or action taken before we close the thread. We can always revert trolling and attacks - that's what I meant by my previous post. I apologize if my reply confused you or implied anything different. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:50, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oshwah So you consider this trolling to be okay. I thought you had a better understanding of life around here - to me you've proved that time and again - so I am bummed out about this post. It is sad to see you approve this attack on BMK that has a total lack of examples to be worthy of anyone's - especially an asmin's - time. MarnetteDTalk 03:45, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- OP has gotten their trolling jollies. Someone please close this utter rot ASAP. MarnetteDTalk 03:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- OK. There is nothing to the sock allegation, nothing whatsoever. Sock accusations need proof; there is no proof. Also, the IP geolocates to the UK. BMK has many faults, but being British is not one of them (booyah). I repeat, there is nothing to it. Now, since I actually agree with the IP on one thing I'm going to edit war with BMK for a little bit, but I hope some other, uninvolved admin will come by soon to confirm my very basic observation and close this thread. Drmies (talk) 03:47, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- What kind of proof are you looking for? You don't think it's in any way suspicious that an IP's first edit is to re-revert shortly after Beyond My Ken reverts, and that their second is to restore his personal attack against me? That's just how people normally behave? 83.52.84.186 (talk) 04:12, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Personal attack by JzG
| Filer blocked by Drmies for 1 week for disruptive editing. Reclosing now that filer is blocked. (non-admin closure) EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 04:14, 7 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
JzG has called me a rat and accused me of sockpuppetry. Owing to his very recent admonishment (his third by ArbCom) I am bringing his violation of WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL to this forum for review. New England Cop (talk) 03:45, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- This is hilariously out of place. One would think a retired police officer such as yourself would know the expression "I smell a rat". This is a waste of time. --Tarage (talk) 03:51, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Or almost anyone that is a native Enflish speaker.--70.27.231.140 (talk) 03:55, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)This remarkably inapt complaint is the third attempt in the past few days for this editor to get JzG sanctioned for something (it doesn't seem to matter what). I don't know the exact point where an editor crosses over into becoming a vexatious litigant but I'm sure we're getting close. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:00, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Enforcement of civility rules is hardly a waste of time when those rules are enshrined as non-negotiable. New England Cop (talk) 03:57, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Aren't you the editor who just posted on AN that JzG had been admonished by ArbCom 3 times, so it should be "3 strikes and you're out"? (No explanatuion of how the Infield Fly Rule applies to Wikipedia, though.) Yes, you were. So why would a brand new user take such a disliking to an admin in such a short time? Answer: they shouldn't, if they really were a brand-new editor. I think something smells rotten in Denmark. BMK (talk) 04:04, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Beyond My Ken: The officer joined our club back in 2012 though. EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 04:11, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Aren't you the editor who just posted on AN that JzG had been admonished by ArbCom 3 times, so it should be "3 strikes and you're out"? (No explanatuion of how the Infield Fly Rule applies to Wikipedia, though.) Yes, you were. So why would a brand new user take such a disliking to an admin in such a short time? Answer: they shouldn't, if they really were a brand-new editor. I think something smells rotten in Denmark. BMK (talk) 04:04, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Or almost anyone that is a native Enflish speaker.--70.27.231.140 (talk) 03:55, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- ArbCom is more than happy to pounce on JzG whenever we can, but we need a better pretext than this. The forumshopping plaintiff, "complaining" about a supposed insult made days ago, is blocked for disruptive editing: trying to forumshop to get someone blocked is particularly low. Drmies (talk) 04:12, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Unnat jha - vandalism only account
| (non-admin closure) Reported user was blocked by Materialscientist -- samtar talk or stalk 12:09, 7 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Unnat jha, Uttank jha - alleged jokes
- FIITJEE - 4 vandalisms Xx236 (talk) 08:04, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Xx236:
This has been mentioned to you a couple of times now, please notify the editor when starting a discussion about them here.I have notified them and reported them to WP:AIV - in the future reports such as this can go there -- samtartalk or stalk 08:14, 7 June 2016 (UTC)- I have informed. Please don't put this discussion here, it's not a public matter.Xx236 (talk) 08:16, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)? Apologies, I didn't see the ANI notice, have struck my incorrect comment above -- samtar talk or stalk 08:18, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Xx236: What isn't a public matter? Muffled Pocketed 08:20, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Just to note, I think an edit conflict removed a number of editor's comments here, including the addition of {{resolved}} - I've attempted to restore them -- samtar talk or stalk 08:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Xx236:
Revdelete request
| RESOLVED | |
| (non-admin closure) Post Rev-Del'd, editors are reminded to use e-mail or IRC (#oversight-en-wp connect) to request rev del or oversight in the future. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 21:10, 7 June 2016 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Wondering if one of you kind admins would take a look at this BLP edit with grossly degrading material and judge whether a revdelete is warranted? Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 19:08, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Just once I'd like to get here in time to read the naughty stuff. EEng 19:12, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hehe, EEng, you'll just have to aim at becoming admin. When I handed in the tools a while back, the curiosity about revdel was killing me, I couldn't stand it. Only reason I asked for them back. Thanks, Ivanvector. Bishonen talk 19:16, 7 June 2016 (UTC).
- @EEng: the real filth is on the subject's website. NSFW. Ivanvector🍁 (talk) 19:18, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Revdel-seeing is rather overrated :). Lectonar (talk) 19:35, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- That one was pretty tame, but please don't post revdel requests to the most public noticeboard on the project. Thanks —DoRD (talk) 19:41, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, please ask an admin directly everybody. . --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:50, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Or you can also email the oversight team too right here: Wikipedia:Requests for oversight and asked to have the edit revdel'd. I've done that, or emailed them with edits I've seen and they've been able to help. RickinBaltimore (talk) 20:52, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, please ask an admin directly everybody. . --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:50, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Range block of Edit Filter request for 213.205.252.*
I've been tracking edits by a long-term vandal who likes to change dates on cartoon and television pages (see my list here). I requested an edit filter back at the end of March (Wikipedia:Edit_filter/Requested#TV_date_changes_vandalism) but there's been no movement yet. The user has been using the same IP range for a while now Special:Contributions/213.205.252.*. (Sorry, I don't know CIDR well enough so I'm just using the wildcard syntax). This location and behavior matches past IPs. However there seems to be a fair number of IP users in this range who make constructive contributions. Widr has been very prompt in blocking these IPs when I report them to AIV, but there's been an uptick in activity so I thought I'd come here and ask for admin attention. Below is a list of recent IPs, dates, and edits, starting with the first instance of this IP range:
- 213.205.252.111 - 22 March 2016 (1 edit; different ISP)
- 80.249.56.77 - 27 March 2016 (24 edits)
- 151.227.163.140 - 30-31 March through 2 April 2016 (30 edits)
- 94.1.180.104 - 4 April 2016 (8 edits)
- 94.195.178.50 - 4 April + 12 April 2016 (38 edits - resumed after 1 week block)
- 86.135.105.121 - 11-12 April 2016 (3 edits)
- 31.118.196.86 - 17 April 2016 (8 edits)
- 213.205.236.64 - 17 April 2016 (7 edits)
- 213.205.232.64 - 17 April 2016 (8 edits)
- 94.195.176.54 - 27 April 2016 (17 edits)
- 213.205.252.204 - 27 April 2016 (2 edits)
- 213.205.252.109 - 29 April 2016 (2 edits)
- 213.205.252.29 - 7 May 2016 (7 edits)
- 213.205.252.187 - 14 May 2016 (3 edits)
- 213.205.252.106 - 24 May 2016 (6 edits)
- 213.205.252.27 - 30 May 2016 (14 edits)
- 213.205.252.17 - 1 June 2016 (5 edits)
- 213.205.252.35 - 2 June 2016 (2 edits)
- 213.205.252.183 - 2 June 2016 (3 edits)
Is there anything that can be done about this, or should I just keep checking edits using the wildcard and date range restrictions (example)? I understand if admins do not want to block the range due to collateral damage, but I thought there might be something I'm missing so thought I'd ask. Thank you! EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:24, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- The way you really want to search that network is using this link [213] which searches 213.205.252.0/24, or 213.205.252.everything. Not sure what the wildcard is really picking up, but you can see the right way shows there is a lot of traffic on that network. I haven't tried to filter through it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:00, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown: The wildcard does the same if you enable the option in preferences. I restrict the dates to check for new edits. You're correct that there is a lot of traffic from that network which is why I originally asked for the edit filter. EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 23:14, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, it shows just a little of the traffic if I use the *, which is why I wanted to share. I'm probably a bit more conservative than most, but unless the disturbance is high, I hate to cut off that much traffic. If no one responds, you might try asking at WP:SPI. No, it isn't a sock, but the front page of SPI is where you make requests of CUs, and they have tools that admin don't have and can often tell if the "good" edits are really the same person as the bad edits, making it ok to block the whole Class C. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:17, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'll post to the Functionaries list and try to draw some checkuser/edit-filter-manager attention to this thread. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:19, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. It isn't a huge range, but CUs just have better tools to see what the real issue is. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:21, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown and Newyorkbrad: Thank you both. Dennis, maybe I'm mistaken about how the wildcard thing works? I really need to learn the CIDR stuff. Appreciate you pointing out the extent of the range. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 23:29, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. It isn't a huge range, but CUs just have better tools to see what the real issue is. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:21, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'll post to the Functionaries list and try to draw some checkuser/edit-filter-manager attention to this thread. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:19, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, it shows just a little of the traffic if I use the *, which is why I wanted to share. I'm probably a bit more conservative than most, but unless the disturbance is high, I hate to cut off that much traffic. If no one responds, you might try asking at WP:SPI. No, it isn't a sock, but the front page of SPI is where you make requests of CUs, and they have tools that admin don't have and can often tell if the "good" edits are really the same person as the bad edits, making it ok to block the whole Class C. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:17, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown: The wildcard does the same if you enable the option in preferences. I restrict the dates to check for new edits. You're correct that there is a lot of traffic from that network which is why I originally asked for the edit filter. EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 23:14, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- Sorry, range block not possible. This is a mobile range, which makes it hyperdynamic. It's also very large. There are plenty of good edits on the range. I'm very, very hesitant to block large mobile ranges at the best of times, and this one doesn't nearly meet the threshold. Risker (talk) 23:46, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Risker: Understood. Any chance this could be addressed with an edit filter? EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 00:10, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- FWIW I am happy to semiprotect any complex or high visibility pages if that helps. Cas Liber (talk·contribs) 01:28, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not opposed to an edit filter, especially if it reduces the burden for hardworking vandal fighters like User:EvergreenFir. However, looking at the vandalism that's happening here, I'm not sure how you'd construct a filter to pick it up without also blocking a lot of legitimate edits. Number changers and date changers who target a broad spectrum of articles can be very difficult for automated processes to pick up. Lankiveil(speak to me) 02:34, 3 June 2016 (UTC).
- Thank you for the comments and kind words. I'll just keep watching the IP range for now. If it gets overwhelming, I'll ask for some page protections and point to this conversation. Thank you! EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 19:40, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not opposed to an edit filter, especially if it reduces the burden for hardworking vandal fighters like User:EvergreenFir. However, looking at the vandalism that's happening here, I'm not sure how you'd construct a filter to pick it up without also blocking a lot of legitimate edits. Number changers and date changers who target a broad spectrum of articles can be very difficult for automated processes to pick up. Lankiveil(speak to me) 02:34, 3 June 2016 (UTC).
- FWIW I am happy to semiprotect any complex or high visibility pages if that helps. Cas Liber (talk·contribs) 01:28, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Risker: Understood. Any chance this could be addressed with an edit filter? EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 00:10, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Legal threat
WP:NLT says: "Legal threats should be reported to Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents or elsewhere to an administrator.". In this case there is reason to believe it is a hoax, but it is a legal threat anyway. I have no experience dealing with this kinda stuff, so I will just leave this message here, someone here probably knows what to do. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 13:03, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- He says that his rights have been 'allegedly' infringed, not that he will necessarilly do anything about it. And in any case, it appears he was correct to do so- the material he pointed out has been removed? MuffledPocketed 13:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- User Sjö wrote: "this appears to be a hoax by user:Neha0974". User utcursch wrote: "Pardon my language, but this is bullshit.". The Quixotic Potato (talk) 13:21, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- User Neha0974 wrote: "I have a good faith belief that none of the materials or activities listed above have been authorized by me, or the law.I hereby give notice of these activities to you and request that you take expeditious action to remove or disable access to the material described above, and thereby prevent the unauthorized distribution and use of my materials. I appreciate your cooperation in this matter. I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed." Seems like a legal threat to me... The Quixotic Potato (talk) 13:25, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Your user page seems chock-full of WP:copyvios. Muffled Pocketed 13:34, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Also as you say, it should be reported 'elsewhere to an administrator.' Why bring it here when there was already an admin 'on-site'? Ian.thomson is well aware of his role and its nuances. Cheers, MuffledPocketed 13:22, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- If I see a bunch of usernames it is not immediately clear who is and who is not an admin. Not all admins deal with everything, they are volunteers. Many stick to one or more areas they prefer. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 13:25, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Actually, I was wondering if anyone else considered it a legal threat. The individual was hoaxing us, claiming copyright on stuff that she stole from us. There wasn't any explicit "I'll sue you" language, however. Buuut... Between the two, I spent a while trying to figure out the exact reason to block her for but was (and am) tired and got distracted by other things. I need to turn in (should have a couple hours ago), so I'm not going to be the blocking admin on this case (though I'm not seeing how we can assume enough good faith from the copyright-hoaxer to leave her unblocked). Ian.thomson (talk) 14:10, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that ?she has completely wasted a shed-load of editors' time- propably intentionally, and certainly not caring if so- and is almost certainly not here to help; however, apropos the OP, I thnk we have to be vey clear as to what exactly constitutes a breach of WP:NLT. Sleep well! MuffledPocketed 14:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Simple. Block her per WP:NOTHERE. If they're posting hoaxes like that, then they're obviously here for the sole purpose of being disruptive.142.105.159.60 (talk) 18:47, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that ?she has completely wasted a shed-load of editors' time- propably intentionally, and certainly not caring if so- and is almost certainly not here to help; however, apropos the OP, I thnk we have to be vey clear as to what exactly constitutes a breach of WP:NLT. Sleep well! MuffledPocketed 14:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AReference_desk%2FMiscellaneous&type=revision&diff=723896716&oldid=723888959 The Quixotic Potato (talk) 00:17, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
User:DinoLover4321
- He has created tens of erroneous substubs, examples:Elephas recki recki is not a species but subspecies, Antilohyrax is a genus. Ordathspidotherium - doesn't exist according to Google.
- He doesn't answer any critics.Xx236 (talk) 12:17, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)@Xx236: please inform users you report here, as it mentions at the top of the page. I have done this for you. I'm not overly sure what to make of these stubs (eg. Elephas recki ileretensis, Elephas recki brumpti etc) which all have the same content - "
Name is an extinct species of large herbivorous mammals that were closely related to Asian elephants.
" -- samtartalk or stalk 12:22, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)@Xx236: please inform users you report here, as it mentions at the top of the page. I have done this for you. I'm not overly sure what to make of these stubs (eg. Elephas recki ileretensis, Elephas recki brumpti etc) which all have the same content - "
- I have removed all the misplaced CSD tags for these as A7 does apply to species or genus. From looking through the list most appear to be legitimate extinct species and genus. The subspecies can be redirected to the species or genus (depending on what we have articles for). There might be a few synonyms which are also legitimate redirects. The rest obviously need expanded, corrected and references added but there is no reason to delete. I will got through them and add what I can/redirect as needed. I started to redirect the Elephas recki subspecies to Palaeoloxodon recki as this is where Elephas recki redirects to but searching on Google seems to suggest that both are legitimate names. EOL lists both and doesn't mention one as a synonym of the other, so I'm a bit confused about that one and will need to look into it more. I don't think this is a case of WP:CIR but more of someone copy/pasting a boilerplate sentence to quickly create lots of stubs. Sarahj2107 (talk) 14:00, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ordathspidotherium was a typo of Orthaspidotherium. The typo originates not from this user but from the page Phenacodontidae; I have fixed it wiki-wide. However some kind of semi-automated cleanup may be necessary. Is there an automatic script/bot to add taxoboxes? Intelligentsium 21:39, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
User circumventing block again
User Mikequfv was blocked for his disruptive editing last month. He broke his first block and then, as a result, had his block length increased to "indefinite" and had the IP that he used to circumvent the original block, blocked as well. (Reports are here and here.) Since the original two blocks, there have been edits from other IPs (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) that match his style of editing and thus seem to be him. Today there has been a renewed effort to push his changes on articles where he's previously made attempts that were reverted, at Victoria, BC and Arica with this IP. Air.light (talk) 03:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
"Proof" in the context of sockpuppetry
| I've blocked the IP for 31 hours for harassment. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:32, 7 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Firstly, I thought it was pretty clear that an IP who makes an edit that Beyond My Ken made and restored an attack that Beyond My Ken made was being used by Beyond My Ken. However, that report was closed by someone who said "no evidence presented that the IP and BMK are the same person", while other commenters had said "Sock accusations need proof; there is no proof", and "not seeing any unambiguous proof to back up the sock puppetry accusations". I asked several times what they were looking for but no-one replied. If coincidental IP replication of problematic edits happens often, what other evidence do you find indicative of sockpuppetry? What is the standard of proof you're looking for? Balance of probabilities? Beyond reasonable doubt?
Secondly, if my report was somehow lacking, it would have been nice for someone to explain why. What was not nice was that several users appear to be accusing me of trolling.[214] And one of those users subsequently undid some of my edits, seemingly to take some kind of revenge on behalf of Beyond My Ken. These were this one, where I'd moved a template that was incorrectly placed on the article page to its talk page, and the entire removal of which violates the attribution clauses of the content licenses; and this one, where I'd removed some extremely biased material, such as a description of the subject of the article as "a scholarly tour de force". I do not think the user thought very hard about whether they were making the encyclopaedia better or worse; I think it's obvious that they just made these edits to piss me off. They accused me of trolling, and then decided to troll me. I think that's unacceptable. 83.52.84.186 (talk) 09:03, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Given your previous complaint was closed with no action - opening another straight away is unlikely to get the result you are looking for. As your editing history resembles the pattern of a banned disruptive editor you would be wise to look at that LTA page and see where edit warring and insults (I see calling another editor 'sycophantic' in your editing history) will take you. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:12, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- So, because no action was taken before, no-one will explain to me what they consider to be proof in questions of sockpuppetry? That doesn't seem particularly logical. Why don't you try to answer the question instead of trying to derail the discussion before it's even begun like this?
- As for where edit warring and insults will take you, it seems to me to lead to general approval, when it's Beyond My Ken doing the edit warring and insulting. He can call me "clueless" and refer to my edits as "shit", and clearly violate the 3RR, and everyone's his pal. Is that the lesson I should be learning here? 83.52.84.186 (talk) 09:21, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- RE Sockpuppetry - if an IP and a registered user revert you, that is not evidence of sockpuppetry. Its evidence 2 people disagree with you. Evidence of sockpuppetry would be actual evidence that links the two - either significant behavioural or technical. RE civility, in short yes. The civility policies are rarely enforced against long term registered editors unless the personal attacks are particularly bad. Best case given the evidence you presented is a verbal slap on the wrist. Also referring to your edits as 'shit' is not a personal attack. Referring to you as clueless is, but again, no admin is going to seriously consider blocking BMK for that. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:30, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Strange account giving strange awards
| The only contribution this user has made was to thank another editor. Please, let's assume good faith here. -- Ed (Edgar181) 18:44, 7 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Would someone care to investigate Epic Fails (talk · contribs)? He's given me an "award", but I can't help but feel that that is not a cause for joy. RGloucester — ☎ 04:50, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Let's see where this is headed. SQLQuery me! 04:57, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm only a kid RGloucester (talk · contribs) Epic Fails</span[[User talk:Epic Fails 5:08, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- This account is clearly WP:NOTHERE, in the most obvious sense. Please block it. RGloucester — ☎ 18:21, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- To be clear, I think that the username "Epic Fails" makes clear that the "thanks" was not any kind of "thanks" at all, but instead some sort of WP:NOTHERE game. Assuming good faith in such a case as this seems like suicide, but I suppose as I'm the only victim, it isn't of anyone's concern. RGloucester — ☎ 18:52, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I think suicide might be taking things just a little too far, R. Gloucester? I thought that was a lovely cup. And quite a jazzy signature, too, for "just a kid". Shows immense potential. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:56, 7 June 2016 (UTC) ... just to remind people that episode was the one where "his psychiatrist, Nolan, suggests that House take up a hobby that can channel his focus."
- To be clear, I think that the username "Epic Fails" makes clear that the "thanks" was not any kind of "thanks" at all, but instead some sort of WP:NOTHERE game. Assuming good faith in such a case as this seems like suicide, but I suppose as I'm the only victim, it isn't of anyone's concern. RGloucester — ☎ 18:52, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- A Technical note - as the user's name matches on the title blacklist - they cannot receive messages except from admins and template editors - and I'm not sure that they can reply. It might be best for them to choose a new username. SQLQuery me! 02:56, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Pot House Hamlet
| Article moved, problem solved. Kelly hi! 14:42, 8 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Pot House Hamlet (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Pot House Hamlet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
The user "Pot House Hamlet" is blanking the article "Pot House Hamlet", claiming the content is copyrighted and stolen. However, the talk page indicates that OTRS permission was given for the content on the page. Kelly hi! 12:46, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- If the OTRS notice met our requirements, then the GDFL release from 2008 is irrevocable. Has anything in our rules changed since then to suggest that this release is actually revocable? Even if the answer is no, is there a reason why we would not just reduce the article to a stub and remove all of the offending text? UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 12:59, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- On a related note, is a gmail account *really* considered all thats needed by OTRS as proof of releasing rights? Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:07, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- If it's the e-mail listed on the website (showing that they have control of both), maybe. There's a reason smarter people than I handle OTRS, however. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:10, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- What was so contentious about the material anyway. Except for that fourth *slightly bizarre* paragraph about the rose cultivator, which could come under BLP, the reast of it was just history- and that can't be copyrighted. MuffledPocketed 13:14, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Photos I believe. Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:16, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- That was my guess as well. It's almost as if things would be simpler if the editor actually explained their concerns. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks both, that makes some sense. But I still can't believe we're giving credence to this. Remove the images by all means, if they're under contention, and that BLP bit; but everything else? The categories? Reflist? See also? Dismbiguator??? Why isn't this being treated as vandalism. We're basicly being bullied. MuffledPocketed 13:21, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- The original author now wants to remove the page. 8 years after it's creation. RickinBaltimore (talk) 13:22, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks both, that makes some sense. But I still can't believe we're giving credence to this. Remove the images by all means, if they're under contention, and that BLP bit; but everything else? The categories? Reflist? See also? Dismbiguator??? Why isn't this being treated as vandalism. We're basicly being bullied. MuffledPocketed 13:21, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- That was my guess as well. It's almost as if things would be simpler if the editor actually explained their concerns. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Photos I believe. Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:16, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- What was so contentious about the material anyway. Except for that fourth *slightly bizarre* paragraph about the rose cultivator, which could come under BLP, the reast of it was just history- and that can't be copyrighted. MuffledPocketed 13:14, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- If it's the e-mail listed on the website (showing that they have control of both), maybe. There's a reason smarter people than I handle OTRS, however. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:10, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- It would be possible to re-write with other sources, I think - the site is a scheduled monument and Historic England has a brief history of it.[215] The user also claims the images were "stolen" - apparently referring to File:The Old Mill, pot house hamlet, silkstone.JPG and File:Pot House Hamlet, Silkstone.JPG, both on Commons. Those images were the only contributions of the uploader there (Commons:User:Horsfe). If necessary, they could be replaced by this photo from Geograph. Kellyhi! 13:23, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- On a related note, is a gmail account *really* considered all thats needed by OTRS as proof of releasing rights? Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:07, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello. Nothing sinister here at all. I would simply like the page removing please. No need to look too deep into this. The wiki page interferes with the businesses FB page as FB create auto generated pages. It is very misleading and is causing real problems on the ground. Peoples businesses are taking the brunt of this confusion and its really creating a problem. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beck2008 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Nothing sinister? Telling people what they can and cannot read on Wikipedia? We are not, after all, guardians of your businesses or their facebook pages. Please desist from your vandalism. And while we're here, could you explain your connection to the Pot House Hamlet account? Cheers. Muffled Pocketed 13:35, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- (ec)In that case I would suggest we rename our article to Silkstone glassworks based on the Historic England reference above. "Pot House Hamlet" the business is probably non-notable by our standards. This is the first time in many years of editing that I have seen a business NOT want a Wikipedia page. Kellyhi! 13:38, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- That sounds fine to me. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:42, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Well, I think WP:COMMONNAME applies. MuffledPocketed 13:44, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I don't see how it does: both of the sources in the article before stubification talk about the glass works at Silkstone; I don't think (from a quick glance) either of them mention "Pot House Hamlet"... Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 13:47, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Well, I think WP:COMMONNAME applies. MuffledPocketed 13:44, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- That sounds fine to me. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:42, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
There are multiple trustees who are trying to sort this out hence beck2008 and PotHouseHmalet.. We are not telling people what they can or can not read on wiki. Whoever wrote that comment needs get off the high horse. We are simply asking for a page to be deleted as it is misleading. The relationship of the wiki page to what is actually going on on the ground is not correct. Changing to SIlktone glassworks dd further confusion as its does make sense to the situation either. Deletion of the page will solve everything please. Why would people want to vandalise others livelihoods by not helping a real concern here is cruel. Its not such a big thing that a business does not want to be misrepresented and is trying to rectify that. Please can the page be removed and if at a later date we wish to input a page again it will be listed correctly. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beck2008 (talk • contribs) 13:58, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- No. Muffled Pocketed 14:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @Beck2008: Please note that it is unlikely the page will be deleted as the subject of the article is very notable and because Wikipedia is not censored. The most you can expect is content changes within the article - deletion is highly unlikely. -NottNott talk 14:02, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
@NottNott Even if this account started the page it cannot delete it? thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beck2008 (talk • contribs) 14:05, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- No, because you do not own the page. As stated above, a number of editors have made changes and edits to the page over the course of 8 years. At this point, the article stands on it's own as a notable subject and a valid article. Had this been say 8 MINUTES after creation and you requested deletion, them there is more of a chance it could be deleted, but not after 8 years. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:08, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)@Beck2008: Unfortunately in your case, nobody WP:OWNs an article on Wikipedia. By making any edit to the site, you release your addition under the WP:CC BY-SA Creative Commons license. -NottNott talk 14:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Can the name be changed to be something that is relevant instead of misleading? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beck2008 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Yes, it will be changed to Silkstone glassworks, I expect. MuffledPocketed 14:12, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I boldly moved the page to Silkstone Glassworks. Obviously if this was not to be done, please revert me, but I feel this might be the best way to go. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:14, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Good move RickinBaltimore, but shouldn't it be a lowercase 'g'? MuffledPocketed 14:18, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- It is? Honestly I'm not 100% sure, if it is, feel free to move it. I thought it was a capital G, but if not make it right :) RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Good move RickinBaltimore, but shouldn't it be a lowercase 'g'? MuffledPocketed 14:18, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I boldly moved the page to Silkstone Glassworks. Obviously if this was not to be done, please revert me, but I feel this might be the best way to go. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:14, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Kelly said above that the page could be moved to Silkstone Glassworks, as that seems to be the better known name. Community consensus however would be the overall factor in seeing if it would be moved. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:11, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- And there you have it; thanks, RickinBaltimore. Muffled Pocketed 14:15, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment And that, as they say, is that. Sorted, finito. Now we can all get back to what we're meant to be doing- building an encyclopeadia, protecting business's Facebook pages, whatever
Muffled Pocketed 14:26, 8 June 2016 (UTC) - @Beck2008: - as the page has been renamed here, I suggest you get with Facebook to address this concern with them. Good luck. Kelly hi! 14:28, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Facebook was my first port of call, and they take it from source, that being you guys. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beck2008 (talk • contribs) 14:31, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Legal threats on talk page of hoax article
| Deleted and salted, socking issue already dealt with. Black Kite (talk) 12:44, 8 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article creator (evidently a kid) has made a legal threat at Talk:Lachlan Hodge, in this edit. It's a repeatedly re-created hoax article, and should be salted. Thanks, OnionRing (talk) 11:36, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Delete, salt, point out the block imminent on any further breach of WP:NLT. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:43, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Also see this: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Johnlegend45. Harry Let us have speaks 11:45, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Name change of template
| (non-admin closure) Editor referred to WP:Templates for Discussion --Cameron11598 (Talk) 04:38, 9 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
André de Toth → Andre de Toth (not by me), so how to change name of eponymous template?? {{André de Toth}} Quis separabit? 19:09, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- It looks like we have André de Toth → Andre de Toth → Andre DeToth, from what I am seeing. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 19:11, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Surely we have both André de Toth → Andre DeToth and Andre de Toth → Andre DeToth? :) But to the point, I suggest the OP's question be asked at Wikipedia talk:Templates for discussion. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree - Wikipedia talk:Templates for discussion is the correct place to request assistance with this matter, Rms125a@hotmail.com. Also, hi! Good to run into you again. Hope you're doing well! :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 20:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Surely we have both André de Toth → Andre DeToth and Andre de Toth → Andre DeToth? :) But to the point, I suggest the OP's question be asked at Wikipedia talk:Templates for discussion. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Revdel request
| Revdelled. (non-admin closure) GABgab 01:11, 10 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Would someone kindly revdel these two edit summaries per WP:CRD#3? [216], [217]. Thank you. Toddst1 (talk) 23:49, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Valley Center Western Days/Valley Center Days
- Vchero (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Vcwd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Valley Center Western Days (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Valley Center Days (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
Yesterday, new account Vchero started to overwrite content at the Valley Center Western Days article, alleging that the event had been renamed. The website is still up for the old name, and shows a 2016 iteration of the event and plans for 2017. Another editor and I both reverted the changes, with various cautions about providing independent sourcing.
Today, Vchero created an article on Valley Center Days. I tagged that article for A7 speedy deletion; that's still pending.
Meanwhile, the Valley Center Western Days article was nominated for deletion, and I've !voted there. (That's one reason why I'm reluctant to take direct administrative action against the users now.)
Vchero is alternately said Western Days is not an event [218] or not a sanctioned event [219]. It's hard not to draw the conclusion that Vchero is editing from a point-of-view position that Valley Center Days is the "rightful" heir to the history of the Valley Center Western Days event.
Into the fray today comes user Vcwd, who hadn't been active since 2013. That user's only edits today have been to my user talk page.
Something squirrelly is going on here, and I'd like extra admin eyes on the situation. (IMHO, it reads like there's been some sort of split or name dispute with two rival organizations putting on Valley Center Western Days and Valley Center Days, and they've taken their dispute to the Wikipedia article(s) now.) My concerns are these:
- Has Vchero's conduct reached a level where sanctions are warranted? Or, can somebody help mentor him through the NPOV (and possibly COI) guidelines?
- Is the Valley Center Days article subject to CSD A7, or should it be nominated for deletion discussion as well?
- Does Vcwd need some guidance regarding NPOV and COI?
- Does Vcwd need to change usernames? If so, should they do so now or after the AfD is resolved?
Like I said, a lot of things going on, and I feel too involved to apply the mop here. —C.Fred (talk) 19:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- This debate has divided our town. There is only one event, and that is the sanctioned Valley Center Days, which includes a rodeo, parade, and festival. VCWD and Justin760 are both from Roadrunner Publications, a privately owned, for-profit corporation attempting to profit off the event by trying to trademarking the name "Valley Center Western Days", which was the previous name of the event, so he could control all media output on the event. This is being legally contested by the true event organizers[1], who are responsible for putting on the non-profit event each year. Justin's 'ownership' of the name is the sole reason for changing it. VCWD and Justin760 (who are actually the same person, in case you're wondering why he magically popped up) own and manage the websites for Valley Roadrunner, Valley Center History Museum, Valley Center Rotary Club, Valley Center Western Days, and countless others. The sources on the Valley Center Western Days pages were published and written by him. He is the only newspaper in town who does not recognize the name change [2][3]. His ownership of the name prevents him from publishing correct information, as he refuses to recognize the name change due to his financial interests vested in the previous name. He also refuses to recognize other news sources, as his newspaper would be threatened by acknowledging another news source in town. I have documented proof of the name change, recognition from community THIRD PARTY organizations, and the 2016 Valley Center Days parade, rodeo, and festival that just came to a conclusion. There is no rival organization, there is Valley Center Days (the true event organizers) and the owner of Roadrunner Publications (who has NEVER organized the parade, rodeo, or festival). There is no Valley Center Western Days anymore, Valley Center Days used to be Western Days, but it had to be changed. There was no Valley Center Western Days festival this year, and there never will be again due to Roadrunner Publications. Vchero (talk) 19:51, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- A sad story, but for any of it to be included in a Wikipedia articles, you are going to need citations from third-party reliable sources to back it up. We cannot go by what you "know" is true, nor can we accept your interpretation of events at face value - or theirs, for that matter. I suggest that the article be rolled back to a previous version before the brouhaha began, and fully protected from editing until things can be sorted out. Edit requests should not be accepted if they're not accompanied by unaligned third party reliable sources. BMK (talk) 20:19, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I have cited multiple reliable third party sources, unlike the other user, who only uses self-published sources. All of my references in my article are verifiable- you can contact ANY of them, and my information will be backed up. If you contact the sources on VCWD, you will only be in contact with Justin760, the owner of Roadrunner Publications. I am not affiliated with any private corporations. I have proven without a reasonable doubt that the event is named Valley Center Days, and that the attempted trademark of the name by Justin is illegal, especially considering it isn't even connected to the event anymore. Check my references on Valley Center Days, everything is in order and everything is true, and I can verify that. Vchero (talk) 01:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Here is proof that he is the owner of the Valley Roadrunner and Roadrunner publications on another one of his self-promoting wiki articles[4], here is proof that he is attempting to trademark the name "Valley Center Western Days" and is being legally contested [5], here is proof that he purchased ficticious business names for events, organizations, and businesses he does not own [6] [7] [8] [9], here are editorials on another news source condemning his actions [10] [11], here is other news sources and community organizations recognizing the event as "Valley Center Days" [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17], here is an article asking for Valley Center Days parade entries using the correct website [18], here is the announcement for the name change on another news source in town[19], here is where he 'donates' the trademark "Valley Center Western Days", which he DOES NOT OWN, to the Valley Center History Museum (whose website he owns and manages) [20], although he still filed the trademark under Roadrunner Publications, Inc. [21], this is his OWN PUBLICATION claiming that Valley Center Days is the new name for the event and that he owns and manages westerndays.org, which is not the offical website [22], and here is the official Valley Center Days website, owned and maintained by the cordinators of the true event [23]. If this is still not enough for you, then I have no idea what could convince you that Justin760 is posting articles on wikipedia for his own financial gain. He even acknowledges the change in his own newspaper [24]. I urge you to delete all wikipedia articles he has started that reroute to his newspaper with his self published sources, including Valley Center Western Days, Valley Center History Museum, and Valley Roadrunner, as they are blatant advertising and meant to deceive the community. Vchero (talk) 02:07, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
References
- ^ Request for Extension of Time to Contest Trademark
- ^ Veterans Sought for Parade
- ^ About Men Behaving Badly
- ^ Valley Roadrunner
- ^ Request for Extension of Time to Contest Trademark
- ^ Ficticious Business Names Under Roadrunner Publications, Inc.
- ^ Ficticious Business Names Under Valley Roadrunner, Inc.
- ^ Ficticious Business Names Under The Valley Roadrunner, Inc.
- ^ Ficticious Business Names Under Salter, Justin
- ^ About Men Behaving Badly
- ^ VC Magazine Flouts Journalitic Integrity
- ^ Veterans Sought for Parade
- ^ Valley Center Days Event Listed on Church Calender
- ^ Invitation to Valley Center Days
- ^ Valley Center Chamber Recognizing Valley Center Days in May, with Official Website Cited
- ^ Shuttle Bus Available for Valley Center Days
- ^ Valley Center Chamber of Commerce Supports Valley Center Days Parade and Program
- ^ Valley Center Days Parade Applications Due by May 7th
- ^ Valley Center Parade Co-chair Participants Re-brand Community Event
- ^ Roadrunner Donates Western Days Trademark to Museum
- ^ Request for Extension of Time to Contest Trademark
- ^ Western Days is Out, Valley Center Days is in: Bill Trok Announces New Name for Festival
- ^ Valley Center Days Official Website
- ^ Western Days is Out, Valley Center Days is in: Bill Trok Announces New Name for Festival
- Note. The individual typing info above is associated with ValleyCenterHappenings, a local blog that has been extremely threatened by the larger media organization. The individuals have consistently attempted to discredit their competition, with to no avail. The newly created user clearly is attempting to have their competion, a real newspaper and publishing business that covers numerous community's and city's, and legit article, removed from Wiki. In addition, this newly created user is attempting to have the local museum page/article removed. This shows malice and true agenda and should be considered a violation of wiki NPA policy and new page violation of ATP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vcwd (talk • contribs) 05:43, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I think the solution is to delete both of these articles and encourage the two sides to take their argument elsewhere. We don't need to play host to play-by-play coverage of a small-town spat over a festival. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 05:52, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Note. I am not affiliated with any news source whatsoever. Valley Center Happenings is not a blog, it is a local e-news source and competition for the printed paper so he refuses to recognize it (especially considering it has been drawing more people and sponsors than print), and has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. I would be happy with Valley Center Days being deleted, but ONLY if all articles (and future articles) affiliated with Valley Roadrunner, Valley Center History Museum, and Roadrunner Publications (i.e.: Justin Salter/Justin760) are deleted as well. Vchero (talk) 06:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment I say delete both pages, and if they are recreated in their current sorry state without reliable third-party sources then salt them and block whoever it was who recreated them. No opinion on the other pages the new account wants deleted, as I haven't looked at them -- they may be just as bad. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:04, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Agree delete We are not the colosseum; WP:TNT those articles until editors independent and removed from the festival and its partisans want to work on it. Muffled Pocketed 10:24, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Check the other pages I mention, (Valley Center History Museum and Valley Roadrunner). 4/5 of the links on Valley Roadrunner are self-published by Justin/Vcwd, and 3/4 of the links on Valley Center History Museum are as well (Note: he owns anything made by Valley Roadrunner, Times Advocate, or Valley Center History Museum/Valley Center Historical Society. Also, he refuses to allow up to date information of Valley Center Days on the Valley Center, California article. I've proven that anything citing Valley Roadrunner or the History Museum is only meant for ambiguous advertising. Valley Center Western Days does not exist, it has been proven multiple times that the new name of the event is Valley Center Days, recognized by everyone except the Roadrunner. I can provide whatever you need to validate that, unlike Justin, who can only provide self-published sources. As long as "Valley Roadrunner", "Valley Center History Museum", and "Valley Center Western Days" get permanently removed, as well as "Valley Center, California" having the correct, up-to-date information on our Memorial Day event (Valley Center Days), I do not mind "Valley Center Days" being deleted (it is not notable or global enough to be mentioned, but neither is a small town newspaper, a tiny museum, or an event that no longer exists). But if the other pages stand, which is clearly advertising for Roadrunner Publications, there is no reason to remove my article, especially considering none of my sources are self-published, and all are from reliable third party associations which validate my claims. Vchero (talk) 17:01, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- It looks like he also has another page, "Times Advocate", which is also ambiguous advertising for Roadrunner Publications. Anything citing Valley Roadrunner, Roadrunner Publications, or Valley Center History Museum should be deleted instantly. Vchero (talk) 17:09, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Note. I apologize to the admins reading the drama created by this new user. As the admin stated, nobody cares who owns what. There's an apparent agenda by this new user. Valley Roadrunner and Times-Advocate are both physical print legally adjudicated newspapers. Admins Vchero contribution and talk history should be reviewed. As a new account, there are a lot of spam/vandalism alerts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justin760 (talk • contribs) 17:31, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Note I apologize that you all have been lied to and deceived to the point of believing the user above. I also apologize to take up your time, but this person has been causing an unholy amount of problems for the Rodeo Committee and other organizations putting on the event. The church and Optimist Club in charge of the parade has been met with unbridled criticism and hate on Justin's many deceiving pages, which are only designed to reroute back to Valley Roadrunner. Note how all citations that Justin and Western Days provides are affiliated with Roadrunner Publications in some way. Also, most of the "alerts" left on my page were put there by Justin, and many are just small cliparts of random pictures and some hyperlinks that he throws around. All of my edits were constructive and entirely correct. I even tried to cite a reference on a museum expansion, but since the newspaper was not under Roadrunner Publications, he deleted it. It is very obvious that he only has articles up to support his own paper and add links that all route to the Roadrunner. If you notice, he has made it so that whenever someone attempts to find the correct informations, they always somehow end up at his misleading pages. He told many parents that they could just show up with their kids for one of the children's events in the rodeo, which was false (you have to sign up), and they had plenty of screaming, sad kids and upset parents due to him. He also sold advertising in his unofficial program under the impression they were sponsoring the real event. This is absolutely insane. I can prove everything I have said, and yet Justin has absolutely no basis for an argument. It shouldn't be so hard to have a non-profit event intended for benefiting the youth of our community, and Roadrunner Publications should not try to intercept the proceeds that are meant for scholarships and various youth activities. Vchero (talk) 18:04, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- There is a significant conflict of interest issue here. If User:Justin760 is the Justin Salter who owns the Valley Roadrunner, he should stop editing that page or any related pages, and should certainly not be inserting external links to his businesses or websites. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:00, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- For example, in this edit, Justin760 reverted Vchero's insertion of links to an apparent competitor's website with the edit summary "Spamming of References," but in this previous edit, Justin760 inserted links to the commercial website he apparently owns. There are no clean hands here. We have two sides of a small-town argument each trying to use Wikipedia articles to fight their battle, and both Justin760 and Vchero should refrain from it. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:13, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I will cease all edits and turn my article "Valley Center Days" over to admins so long as Justin Salter and all of his affiliates (Justin760, VCWD, and probably countless others) are banned from further editing as all of his edits have been to promote his private business and attempt to retain the previous name (that he owns). If all of his articles containing or citing Valley Roadrunner / Roadrunner Publications (Valley Center History Museum, Times Advocate, Valley Center Western Days, and Valley Roadrunner) are permanently deleted from Wikipedia, I have no problem with whatever the administrators decide to do with my corrective article. Vchero (talk) 23:24, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that it primarily seems to be a content dispute, but there's the ancilliary issue of whether one (or both) of the parties are editing with a COI. Superficially, the answer seems to be "yes". BMK (talk) 00:43, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Please refer back to my four concerns at the top of this report. Yes, there is a secondary content issue, in that I was asking for an independent administrator to confirm the CSD A7—but only because I did not feel sufficiently uninvolved to delete it myself. My primary concerns, though, were a mixture of NPOV and COI, plus a username concern. This is now compounded by some possible privacy concerns. If this were an ordinary content dispute, I'd never have brought this here; however, the interplay of COI, username concerns, and repeated reverts made it seem like it was better to come here for "one-stop shopping" rather than file multiple reports at WP:COIN, WP:UAA, and WP:AN3.In all honesty, if I could figure out the IRC system, I'd have asked for help there and never started a thread here. —C.Fred (talk) 01:23, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that it primarily seems to be a content dispute, but there's the ancilliary issue of whether one (or both) of the parties are editing with a COI. Superficially, the answer seems to be "yes". BMK (talk) 00:43, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Actually, there are several issues here. First, I'm not sure why DGG declined the speedy deletion of [220] of the "new" article Valley Center Days created by User:Vchero. True, C.Fred's original rationale of A7 (no indication of importance) did not apply but it clearly qualifies under A10 (recently created article that duplicates an existing topic). This article was created 2 days ago duplicates the topic and basic content of Valley Center Western Days which was created 4 years ago and is now at AfD. Someone now needs to start an AfD for the new article or speedy delete it under A10. In the interim, I have drastically copyedited the version of the new article by User:Vchero. This, was entirely unacceptable to state in Wikipedia's voice. It also used original research and primary sources and incorporated copyvio. Voceditenore (talk) 07:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Agreed. The article's creator even admitted in this thread that he/she did not create the article because it's topic is notable and encyclopedic (it was created to "balance out" the other article that it mirrors) and can be deleted if the other article is (and several other loosely related articles are) also deleted. COI editing on the part of Justin760 is actually a relatively minor issue in this case, as none of the articles he wrote appear to be especially promotional or otherwise biased in how they are written. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:54, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's not actually a minor issue, because the issue is that Justin760 has edited the various VCD/VCWD articles in a manner which apparently promotes his company's particular point of view with regard to the apparent dispute over the festival, and removed other sources which happen to contradict his company's point of view. And no, I can't believe that I just typed all that, because it means Wikipedia has become a battleground to argue about the name of a small-town Memorial Day festival. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 09:27, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- To be fair, NorthBySouthBaranof, bothVchero and Justin760 (+assorted IPs) have been editing the articles to support their opposing points of view. But note that the name, the local print newspaper, and the original website for this event and their addition to Valley Center Western Days, long predate the current newspaper owner's acquisition of it. Also Vchero, Do NOT speculate about or post on Wikipedia the purported real-life identity of other editors as you did here and here. Cut it out, now. But yes, both articles should be deleted—pure hummus (apart from the attempted outing)—and not notable. Voceditenore (talk) 11:23, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- This needs to be settled the traditional way - team Morris danceing. -Roxy the dog™ woof 09:36, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I have suggested on the relevant article talk page that we solve this issue very simply: By removing and/or deleting all mention of this small-town Memorial Day festival from the encyclopedia. There's no evidence the festival is notable in any way significant that would distinguish it from thousands upon thousands of other holiday parade/festival/whatevers, and what sourcing is out there is all highly localized and trivial. This spat has wasted enough of everyone's time — just nuke it all from orbit. tl;dr: delete the two pages and remove all mention from the community article. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 09:47, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's not actually a minor issue, because the issue is that Justin760 has edited the various VCD/VCWD articles in a manner which apparently promotes his company's particular point of view with regard to the apparent dispute over the festival, and removed other sources which happen to contradict his company's point of view. And no, I can't believe that I just typed all that, because it means Wikipedia has become a battleground to argue about the name of a small-town Memorial Day festival. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 09:27, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Agreed. The article's creator even admitted in this thread that he/she did not create the article because it's topic is notable and encyclopedic (it was created to "balance out" the other article that it mirrors) and can be deleted if the other article is (and several other loosely related articles are) also deleted. COI editing on the part of Justin760 is actually a relatively minor issue in this case, as none of the articles he wrote appear to be especially promotional or otherwise biased in how they are written. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:54, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- As a member of the board of directors of the Valley Center History Museum, the event name is Western Days. The name for the Parade was changed for this year only. There is no point of view of our local newspaper. The information is available on our museums website as historical data. The parade is one event of many during the Western Days week. The event website is WesternDays.org — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.227.67 (talk) 09:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, everything regarding the event should be deleted, and so should Valley Roadrunner, which is advertising for his newspaper. There is no reason that a small town newspaper should be mentioned in wikipedia, especially when all sources are self published. "Valley Center Days", "Valley Center Western Days", "Roadrunner Publications" and "Valley Roadrunner" should simply be blacklisted from wikipedia and all articles/mentions should be deleted. Vchero (talk) 14:56, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes per the OP this is totally COI driven, all the accounts are WP:SPA promoting the town and doubly conflicted as we have a RW conflict dragged into WP. One side with Vcwd and Jason760 (to spell it out on the slim chance that anybody has missed it, Valley Center Western Days which was and still is in part owned by Jason Salter - note I am not making any claims on identity - just whose interests are being represented), which may be operated by one person but are surely MEAT if they are two people, on one side, and Vchero ("Valley Center hero" - the folks opposing Jason in the RW depict themselves as little guys standing up to the big guy), on the other. All the edits by both accounts are promotional for the town and its institutions, and of course their own POV on those things. (Here is how the Valley Center Western Days article looked when it was created - it is literally an ad to come on down to the festival.)
- In my view none of these editors are here to build an encyclopedia. I propose a topic ban for all three accounts on all things related to Valley Center We can sort out the content peacefully without their disruption. Jytdog (talk) 22:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that there needs to be a topic ban in place. Once Justin760 (and all of his affiliates who are also involved in the Valley Roadruner, including vcwd, BrandonVC, and other miscellaneous IP addresses) is unable to publish any misleading information regarding Western Days/VC Days, I will recede and withhold any future edits on any pages whatsoever. But if he continue to vandalize and sabotage Valley Center Days by routing people to his own websites instead of the official page (valleycenterdays.org), I will once again bring this to your attention. Please place a topic ban on all editors involved, and prevent anyone from starting a "Valley Center Western Days" article. Vchero (talk) 22:49, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Vchero, you don't seem to understand that the suggestion for a topic ban includes you. You are just as at fault as the other two for editing with a conflict of interest and not adhering to a neutral point of view. For these reasons I support Jytdog's suggestion of a topic ban for User:Justin760, User:VCWD, User:Vchero and anyone else connected with this brouhaha. The probable deletion of Valley Center Western Days should help, and I see no reason for a deletion of Valley Roadrunner, which appears to be a legitimate article about a legitimate newspaper. BMK (talk) 01:08, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that there needs to be a topic ban in place. Once Justin760 (and all of his affiliates who are also involved in the Valley Roadruner, including vcwd, BrandonVC, and other miscellaneous IP addresses) is unable to publish any misleading information regarding Western Days/VC Days, I will recede and withhold any future edits on any pages whatsoever. But if he continue to vandalize and sabotage Valley Center Days by routing people to his own websites instead of the official page (valleycenterdays.org), I will once again bring this to your attention. Please place a topic ban on all editors involved, and prevent anyone from starting a "Valley Center Western Days" article. Vchero (talk) 22:49, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- SPI update: Justin760 had two socks, NewsRunner and BrandonVC; all three are indeffed. Jytdog (talk) 01:48, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- In terms of content, all the articles created by the socks, which were only to promote Roadrunner Publications, Inc. (speedied) and things connected to it have been AfDed, some by me, some by others
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Times-Advocate
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valley Center History Museum
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valley Roadrunner
- and of course the article at the center of this dispute Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Valley Center Western Days
- So all that is remaining here is the disposition of editors Vchero and Vcwd, each of whom has only been here to promote the town etc, and VChereo only to argue as well. Jytdog (talk) 09:24, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- So, yeah. I'm frankly surprised Vchero hasn't already been indeffed many times over -- he/she has already admitted numerous times in this thread to being the very definition of WP:NOTHERE. Anyone who says "I don't mind being blocked, as long as you block this other person and delete all their articles permanently" is clearly not interested in building an encyclopedia. Vcwd is a little greyer, but not that much; he/she is a NOTHERE SPA whose agenda, from what I can establish from reading their comments in this thread, is to promote one news organization and attack a smaller news organization. Block them both indefinitely; see if Vcwd posts an unblock request promising to contribute to the project and refrain from all COI editing from now on, and if it seems at all possible that they are being honest then unblock them; Vchero should be SBANned (i.e., an admin cannot choose to unilaterally unblock) for six months. Honestly, I'm inclined to give them WP:ROPE, as all the articles look set to get deleted and salted, so the odds of either of these accounts doing any significant damage in the future seem somewhat slim. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:01, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- actually since Vchero was only here to fight and their chief opponent has been indeffed, and vcwd was dormant and only came b/c some notification was triggered the drama is over and we can probably let this drift into the archive. Jytdog (talk) 11:43, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- What if some other SPA that can't be CU-linked to either Justin or Vcwd shows up down the road and continues the dispute with some "new", "reliable" sources? Vchero will just come back and fight some more, and claim that his "opponents" in this case were blocked and he/she wasn't. We need only look up this page to the "off-site canvassing"/"outing" thread to see someone claiming that because one of their opponents was a sock-user it means they are right in making their attacks on everyone else. Heck, what if Justin says six months down the line that they will not use sockpuppets and will not make COI edits and gets unblocked -- Vchero will almost certainly return and cause more trouble. It's a simple matter of blocking a user who has already admitted to being NOTHERE to prevent such problems in the future. I do not know if it's standard practice to allow NOTHERE users to go unblocked because it's possible (or even probable) that the damage is already done. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:33, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- actually since Vchero was only here to fight and their chief opponent has been indeffed, and vcwd was dormant and only came b/c some notification was triggered the drama is over and we can probably let this drift into the archive. Jytdog (talk) 11:43, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- So, yeah. I'm frankly surprised Vchero hasn't already been indeffed many times over -- he/she has already admitted numerous times in this thread to being the very definition of WP:NOTHERE. Anyone who says "I don't mind being blocked, as long as you block this other person and delete all their articles permanently" is clearly not interested in building an encyclopedia. Vcwd is a little greyer, but not that much; he/she is a NOTHERE SPA whose agenda, from what I can establish from reading their comments in this thread, is to promote one news organization and attack a smaller news organization. Block them both indefinitely; see if Vcwd posts an unblock request promising to contribute to the project and refrain from all COI editing from now on, and if it seems at all possible that they are being honest then unblock them; Vchero should be SBANned (i.e., an admin cannot choose to unilaterally unblock) for six months. Honestly, I'm inclined to give them WP:ROPE, as all the articles look set to get deleted and salted, so the odds of either of these accounts doing any significant damage in the future seem somewhat slim. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:01, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Greek Macedon and his editing of Macedonians (Greeks) and edits by other users.
User:Greek Macedon is making contradictive edits to the lead of the Macedonians (Greeks) article while flatly refusing to discuss his issues on the talkpage. As can be seen here, here, here, here, and and here. He is apparently supporting the edits made by now banned user: 199.7.157.125 and some of his suspected sockpuppets like user: 199.7.157.70, User: 199.7.157.23, User: 199.119.233.157 and User: 199.119.233.20, who I also believe to be sockpuppets of User:99 Harry, User:199.119.233.240, User:199.7.157.82 and User:99.243.33.88 See also this sockpuppet report. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 14:08, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Pace your suggestion of course; but this seems like a content dispute which has descended into an edit-war. And whilst the SPI might prove something, until it does, any mention of it here comes across as muddying the waters I'm afraid. NAAR.MuffledPocketed 14:55, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:Fortuna Imperatrix, The origin of this is indeed an edit dispute. But there is the added dimension of the consistent refusal to engage in talk, which is basically why I reported it here. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:00, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Hebel: I totally agree with your analysis- the behaviour at the article was outrageous. I just think that SPIs should probably be left to do its thing- In emergency break glass. In any case he has been temporarilly neutralised. MuffledPocketed 15:03, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for your insightful comment Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi. Basically I can sometimes be an impatient person that worries too much. The SPI has been going on for more than a week now and in that period I have been adding stuff. Could I have done something wrong administratively there? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:11, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Bbb23 and Mike V:- they might be able to help you with that one. But I will say, accounts aren't usually linked (publicly, anyway) to IPs, as it would be a form of WP:OUTING. But there's probably more to it than that. MuffledPocketed 15:15, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you again. I will ask them because I am worried I may have done something wrong there. I don't know how long these things normally take and I certainly won't be complaining about that or about the eventual outcome, but it's better to know than to just be guessing... Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:57, 7 June 2016 (UTC)}}
- @Bbb23 and Mike V:- they might be able to help you with that one. But I will say, accounts aren't usually linked (publicly, anyway) to IPs, as it would be a form of WP:OUTING. But there's probably more to it than that. MuffledPocketed 15:15, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for your insightful comment Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi. Basically I can sometimes be an impatient person that worries too much. The SPI has been going on for more than a week now and in that period I have been adding stuff. Could I have done something wrong administratively there? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:11, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Hebel: I totally agree with your analysis- the behaviour at the article was outrageous. I just think that SPIs should probably be left to do its thing- In emergency break glass. In any case he has been temporarilly neutralised. MuffledPocketed 15:03, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:Fortuna Imperatrix, The origin of this is indeed an edit dispute. But there is the added dimension of the consistent refusal to engage in talk, which is basically why I reported it here. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:00, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Pace your suggestion of course; but this seems like a content dispute which has descended into an edit-war. And whilst the SPI might prove something, until it does, any mention of it here comes across as muddying the waters I'm afraid. NAAR.MuffledPocketed 14:55, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Old discussions being changed
While cleaning up mildly malformed references, an editor is making changes to old closed AfD discussions and various Noticeboard discussions. The changes are not limited to fixing the references but include correcting spellings in other editors' contributions. The example I came across was this (on my watchlist) where I suspect that "Blatent nonsence
" may indeed have been what the editor intended to type: in any case, that's what was said in the 2008 discussion and that's what should remain. The editor has said that the spelling corrections were "unintentional", which makes me wonder how many other unintentional "corrections" have been made to words within quotes, media titles, etc. The objective was to clear articles out of Category:CS1 maint: Multiple names: authors list.
I've rolled back a small handful of these edits but then realised that there's an hour's worth of similar changes, to files in the "Wikipedia:" space, from 00:34 to 01:36 this morning. Should they all be rolled back? Or does fixing reference format in non-reader-facing areas matter more than leaving editors' comments intact? PamD 11:57, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- (ec) Sounds like a hit and run editor to me. I have seen Dcirovic's changes on articles on my watchlist, but just shrugged them off as being harmless and trivial. I think as long as we can prove that the meaning of the discussions hasn't changed (and the one you linked to didn't), we are probably best off leaving them be for the time being. If I spot Dcirovic fiddling with spellings on ancient talk page discussions with rapid-fire again though, then a block would be helpful. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:05, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, by all means let's casually threaten to block someone with a quarter million edits and 6 years service if they ever accidentally change the spelling of some long dead pages again. Reason #75934 why people hate admins. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:05, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I don't see anything wrong with blocking somebody for ten minutes so the AWB script they accidentally ran doesn't change 5,000 pages they didn't mean to, then unblocking them immediately afterwards with a "sorry about that" note. After all, don't bots have a "click this to block in case of malfunction" button? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:35, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)
- Dcirovic and I (and a few others) have been working on this backlog, so I watch their talk page.
- Dcirovic, you can remove non-mainspace pages in AWB by right-clicking anywhere in the article-list -> Remove -> Non-main space.
- Whether or not non-mainspace articles should exist in the maintenance category is an issue to bring up at Help talk:Citation Style 1 (I'm not sure if that can be controlled, but someone there would know).
- Finally, non-supervised editing requires a bot flag, which is a stringent process, but avoids problems like this. ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 15:59, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
I tried as hard as I could to confine my edits to reference updates. The meaning of those old discussions is not changed. Nevertheless, I would gladly roll those edits back, if that was the preferred course of action. --Dcirovic (talk) 15:47, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- The bigger concern is not paying proper attention to each AWB edit. "As hard as I could" isn't going to win many sympathies, because each part of each edit is under your control. You can even turn off typo/spelling correction altogether. It looks like there were many spelling corrections in project space, including many instances of editing other people's comments. I only clicked on a random sample, but noticed that, for example here you changed Bluerasberry's signature to the "correct" spelling of "raspberry" and, as just brought up on your talk page, there were also some obvious errors in articlespace re: spelling. I think this talk of a block above is crazy, but what people need to hear is a commitment to do more than "trying", making a lot of mistakes, then offering to roll back. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:16, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I had a small concern about Dcirovic's edits, and they were very responsive to my complaint, so I do not think a block is in order. I do think that D. should not make any spelling changes in comments on talk pages, and I presume, knowing next to nothing about AWB, their script can be adjusted to accomplish that. BMK (talk) 18:06, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Green Flash Brewing Company
The article appears to be tended by numerous COI accounts. There are several issues here in addition to conflict of interest, including the likelihood of sock or meatpuppets editing the article, promotional tone and long lists of products and awards. So I'm requesting assistance in dealing with WP:SPA contributors, and with trimming the fluff as well. Given the recent edit history, my sense is if I go about this alone we'll have an edit war. 2601:188:1:AEA0:6D65:E16:58E2:F07C (talk) 21:09, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Again, I could use some assistance, even if it's to suggest reporting at SPI or COI. I've come here because those issues are allied with the article's content problems. 2601:188:1:AEA0:6D65:E16:58E2:F07C (talk) 21:47, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I can't remember which beer I drank from Green Flash with some regularity a few years ago. It was pretty tasty, I remember that. Drmies (talk) 22:25, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Threats made by IP 85.101.176.167
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(Note, they were not directed at me.) See this diff. Jujutsuan (talk contribs) 02:22, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hard to do anything. It's from 2 days ago, and there's little evidence the same person is still using that IP address. I'm not sure any block would have any useful effect at stopping anything, since nothing more has happened. --Jayron32 02:30, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Agreed with Jujutsuan - Edit was two days ago. Blocking the IP would do more harm than good at this point. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:36, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- A bit late to do any good, at this point the block would probably do more harm than any good it could possibly do. No need for collateral damage.--Cameron11598 (Talk) 14:44, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
TheLiberal.ie
The article TheLiberal.ie has a problem with an editor, Imthenumberonefan, that appears to have a WP:COI - possibly the owner of the website in question or an employee. E.g., only "favourable"/positive information added, criticism removed even though it's referenced, and they have added information that does not appear to be otherwise in the public domain. Typical edit: diff
They have been warned for WP:3RR. Now an anonymous IP has shown up and is removing referenced material with an incorrect edit summary.
Could we get page protection or an admin to otherwise have a look? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 11:18, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I can't see anything wrong with an edit that removes contentious (and possibly libelous) information sourced to Twitter and Reddit. Whilst the editor is a bit promotional, I am amazed that experienced editors are restoring crap like that. I have removed said material from the article. Laura Jamieson (talk) 11:39, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- The tweets (including some by journalists who had their articles plagiarised) include screenshots of plagiarised articles! BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:07, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I was more concerned with the claims that the competitions were fixed - which was only sourced to Reddit. The Tweets didn't even need to be there as the plagiarism claim was sourced to reliable sources already. Laura Jamieson (talk) 12:14, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- The tweets (including some by journalists who had their articles plagiarised) include screenshots of plagiarised articles! BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:07, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Gotcha, thanks. Will try to find additional sources for the allegations of fixed contests. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:18, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- And again, Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, I'm not edit warring - I've restored referenced content, have not approached 3RR, engaged on the talk page, and raised the issue here. But thanks for your concern.
BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 13:27, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- And again, Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, I'm not edit warring - I've restored referenced content, have not approached 3RR, engaged on the talk page, and raised the issue here. But thanks for your concern.
- I saw that the page is considered for deletion. I think that may be the only solution since it's impossible to get ridiculous claims off the page from an editor who does not engage on the talk page. The page isn't that notable, but someone is determined to remove controversies on the public record, replaced with promotional material and even if blocked, would likely just create different accounts to circumvent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StringerNL (talk • contribs) 15:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Extra Administrator eyes required on articles containing information about the Northern Ireland Flag
There's been a recent upsurge in heated activity on various articles containing information about the Flag of Northern Ireland. I'm trying hard to get editors to start discussing content rather than complaining about each other, but I feel I am losing the battle as the sole administrator who seems active at the moment on the articles. I have an additional problem of having got into a wrangle with a rather persistent editor who I consider is taunting, sarcastic, is gaming the system as well as throwing out insults about my actions, and generally being disruptive by being overly persistent and leading one into a labyrinthine set of twisty passages of fine wiki-lawyering points and loaded questions. I am now not convinced that I could be justifiable in wielding any future discretionary sanctions against this editor by virtue of my interactions with them making me involved. I would be grateful if some extra help could be given on the following articles: Countries of the United Kingdom (where I have actually succeeded in getting editors to generally contribute to finding reliable sources rather than complain and edit war within the rules), and Flag of Northern Ireland. Thank you. DDStretch (talk) 11:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm on vacation right now – just taking a look at the dramaz while drinking coffee – but I recently had to protect Flag of Northern Ireland after an RFPP report, and I see that the edit warring resumed right after that protection expired. This is only the most recent of a rash of WP:TROUBLES problems we've had of late, and the whole thing may be beginning to gather steam again. Katietalk 12:35, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Ok, following a clearly disruptive edit on Talk:Flag of Northern Ireland that shows clear battleground behaviour, the editor I referred to, above, has been blocked for one month and the action listed in the Discretionary Sanctions log for The Troubles. DDStretch (talk) 16:05, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Echoing administrator DDStretch's call for more administrative eyes on the 2 articles-in-question. FWIW, I'm the editor who requested protection for both articles. GoodDay (talk) 17:03, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Mr. Eisenhower
| (non-admin closure) Indeffed by B!sZ. BMK (talk) 19:17, 8 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Seven minutes after his block expired, Mr. Eisenhower repeated the behavior (copyright violation, impersonating an administrator) that got him blocked. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:55, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- So after I fixed Guy Macon's edit so the link pointed to a user instead of a non existent page, I looked at this dude's contributions. Mr. Eisenhower is certainly not building the Wikipedia equivalent of the Interstate Highway System. I'd say a NOTHERE indef is in order. John from Idegon (talk) 06:05, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Sadly, I have to concur, and have done exactly that. Anyone is free to unblock should we see some sort of credible response. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 07:52, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
User:User000name
| (non-admin closure) Yes, I expressed an opinion below, but I don't think that anyone would dispute the clear fact that the block has been confirmed by the community, so I'm closing this anyway. Anyone who disagrees with my close, and wants to open it again, or reclose it, go right ahead. BMK (talk) 20:28, 8 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I believe that User000name (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) should be blocked indefinitely or otherwise severely sanctioned, and his or her userpage deleted, but because I find myself too angry to appear impartial am bringing the situation here.
I first heard of this user when I saw a post on another editor's talkpage, admonishing that editor for referring to User000name as a "Nazi" in an edit summary. The editor responded that User000name is a Nazi as reflected on his userpage. This led me to take a look at that page, which includes long lists of external links. I was concerned to discover that the largest section of the userpage was (and is) headed "Holocaust Revisionism" and contains dozens of links to Holocaust-denial articles, "documentaries" and videos. In this thread, I asked User000name to explain the purpose of including this material on his userpage. Another administrator added that User000name must remove Youtube links to copyrighted material, which is true enough although in this context I think a secondary consideration. User000name then responded to both of us, ''Purpose of sections "external links" and "Holocaust Revisionism": it is a collection of info, sometimes the sources aren't the best per WP policy so I will not add them anywhere at the (Main) namespace but will keep them on my userpage; is there an issue with that? I'll remove the links."
User000name then removed the Youtube links, replacing them with the word "REDACTED". These included links to sites such as "Auschwitz - Why the Gas Chambers are a Myth", "Buchenwald a Dumb Dumb Portrayal of Evil", "Zundel vs. Zionist - Truth vs. Lies", "Spielberg's Hoax - The Last Days of the Big Lie", and "Understanding the Holocaust as a Legend". The edit summary was "Removing YouTube links fags asked me to remove".
User000name did not remove any other links, and the "collection of info" on his userpage continued to have a "Holocaust Revisionism" links section including links to "Zyklon-B and the German Delousing Chambers", "The Jewish Gas Chamber Hoax", "Exposing the Holocaust™ Hoax", and "Nazi Gassings" (whose caption is "just another website that denies the Holocaust hoax"), among others. There is also a "Nazism" section of the userpage whose contents are also appalling. I discussed this situation in this thread, asking another administrator whether User000name should be indeffed as a Holocaust-denial troll. User000name then provided the further explanation that "The ['fags'] edit summary meant I disagreed with removing any links to YouTube. Holocaust revisionism links were there because they are sort of interesting."
In a further review, I observed that User000name's userpage, in its own prose (not in a link) uses the term "Holohoax" and elsewhere describes Barack Obama as a "monkey." I asked User000name to explain, and his entire response was, "Along with useful info POVs were also included from text files that were made from text copied from a textboard titled "/newpol/"; more importantly, what is the issue? I could be making useful edits at this website instead of this."
In addressing this situation I tried to be mindful of the fact that Wikipedia embraces a broad range of people and ideologies, and also of the caution passed along by another administrator that sometimes external links may be posted for purposes of studying or identifying problematic human behavior rather than praising such behavior. But even the most lenient version of AGF and widest broadmindedness can only go so far. I pinged User000name to my page, where I told him very directly (in by far the strongest language I've ever used in 10 years on this site—people will be surprised) exactly what I thought of his userpage and, if the page was an accurate reflection of his ideation, of him. He had a clear chance to explain that I was misunderstanding him, if such a response was possible, and dissociate himself from all of those links and comments. He said nothing.
I just spot-checked User000name's contributions for the past 24 hours. His most recent edit was to add a rare spelling variant to the Kike article, which he sourced to Leo Rosten's book The Joys of Yiddish. The book was already cited in the article, but User000name gave it a reference-name; the name he chose was "<ref name="kike.htm">". Correction per the user's talkpage; I don't think it affects the overall situation. Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:47, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
(The situation speaks for itself in my view, but for those who might be interested, see the principles enunciated in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Billy Ego-Sandstein and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Noleander.)
Submitted for such action as may be appropriate, hopefully without more drama than necessary. Pinging Doug Weller, Iridescent, Alanyst, and MastCell as they commented in the thread on my talk. Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:20, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Incivility aside, is it against the rules of Wikipedia to hold crackpot theories? I was under the assumption that Wikipedia is not censored. These don't strike me as particularly offensive. Wrong? Yes. Offensive? Not any more than your average conspiracy theory nut... I could be wrong I suppose, looking forward to hear what other users think. --Tarage (talk) 01:26, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Indeffed. User is not here to edit Wikipedia. User page deleted for containing waaaaay too much offensive material and offensive links--including, for instance, pro-Nazi conspiratorial material about Anne Frank, the well-known fraud invented by the allies to demoralize the defeated Germans even more, or something like that. Tarage, Wikipedia is not censored per se, but Wikipedia is also not a forum for crackpot theories and offensive material--that's what the comments threads on Facebook are for. If User000name wishes to explain, besides the "fags" comment and all that, what good that material served, they are welcome to do so in an unblock request. Drmies (talk) 01:59, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks Drmies. Users are not indeffed merely because of a yuck factor—the issue concerns using Wikipedia to spread disinformation. Johnuniq (talk) 02:41, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Good block. WP:Wikipedia is not censored applies only to articles, and WP:User pages forbids "Very divisive or offensive material not related to encyclopedia editing". BMK (talk) 03:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- NOTCENSORED is sometimes taken to mean that we are a free-speech zone. By the same token, NOTHERE covers a lot of ground. The user may have made positive edits, but they are grossly outweighed by the negative ones. Drmies (talk) 03:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- You're right that NOTCENSORED is sometimes taken that way, but, paradoxically, while the volunteer editors here have decided that the encyclopedia should not be censored, those same volunteers actually have no individual right to freedom of speech on a private website, and have also collectively decided in what ways private speech will be regulated in userspace. Personally, I espouse a zero-tolerance policy concerning Nazi sympathizers and Holocaust deniers, similar to the one mandated by the Foundation concerning pedophilia - some things are simply too offensive to be acceptable. BMK (talk) 04:21, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support the block. The incident surrounding their userpage plus his ignoring a request to explain his 'fags' comment, the sort of thing that can have a chilling effect on editors less used to abuse, support the block. Doug Weller talk 06:47, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose the block, since
User is not here to edit Wikipedia
(the purported reason for the block, in both this thread and the block log) is clearly nonsensical—he has well over 1000 mainspace edits in the past month alone, all of which (with the arguable exception of the "kike" edit cited by NYB above) appear constructive and uncontroversial on a quick dip-sample. For comparison, Newyorkbrad who brought this complaint made 54 mainspace edits in the same period, all apparently minor. Given the "fags" comment this isn't a cause on which I'll stand and fight, but Drmies, at least be honest when you block someone on the grounds that you personally disagree with their opinions, rather than fabricating an easily-disproved pretext. (If we are going to go down the road of declaring people nonpersons for holding contentious views, you probably ought not to look too closely at the WMF.) ‑ Iridescent 08:49, 3 June 2016 (UTC)- You may be going down that road, Iridescent, but I'm not. And thanks for the charge of dishonesty, that's real nice coming from someone I used to respect a lot. Drmies (talk) 14:05, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Come on, Iridescent. His "1,000 mainspace edits" consist mostly of running MOSNUMscript. That's a pretty minor effort compared to the time he's spent lovingly curating a userpage full of racist and anti-Semitic nonsense. It's entirely honest to say that this person's primary interest does not appear to be in building an encyclopedia. Separately, I'm sure we all have different thresholds for when a "contentious opinion" (to use your phrase) becomes morally repugnant enough that Wikipedia should not be used to promote it, but I would think most people agree that neo-Nazism, Holocaust denial, and referring to African-Americans as "monkeys" are all unequivocally across that threshold. It's surprising, and depressing, to see you arguing an abstruse wiki-technicality at the expense of common sense and basic decency. You've always been a voice of reason and sanity, and this is beneath you. MastCell Talk 21:06, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support block; uncollegiality of such an extent is a classic expression of an absence from the ideals of the project. Muffled Pocketed 09:24, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- good block. NOTHERE. Jytdog (talk) 22:09, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Bad block, as all "NOTHERE" blocks are (see prior discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Blocking_policy#RfC_about_WP:NOTHERE if you have that much time of your life to waste). Of course the page should have been deleted, and I have no problem with an indef block, but it would spare a lot of drama to use an actual reason. For example, Wikipedia:User_pages#Advocacy_or_support_of_grossly_improper_behaviors_with_no_project_benefit would work. NE Ent 23:33, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- By all means, let's invite him back into the room so we can dot some I's and cross some T's. WP:BURO. A righteous block, period. BMK (talk) 23:48, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:NE Ent how odd that you cite that RfC and state the opposite of its close, which is quite clear that "The consensus is that WP:NOTHERE is a valid reason for blocking and should be included and used. The majority opinion is that it is widely used and the community has accepted it as a valid reason used in various places like ANI and the blocks of many admins." Jytdog (talk) 11:48, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Bad block, His edits are a little good, but we supposed to bring him back to Wikipedia, Remember WP:NOTCENSORED KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 23:55, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support block, I'm reluctant to block people solely for their personal views but that isn't the issue here. People can have their personal views but it doesn't mean they can use wikipedia to push them. Notcensored is about content pages and content related discussions. Editors are given a wide degree of latitude over what's on their user page but as BMK and NE Ent has said, that latitude isn't infinite. Pushing highly offensive views on your user page is one area that's going to far. If it was something like a userbox which said "this editor believes the holocaust didn't happen" or whatever, personally I would feel it better to leave it stand. Although it's highly offensive, it seems better to let an editor say it so people are easily aware than it is to cover it up and leave editors unaware. However others may feel differently so I wouldn't oppose a block in such a case. If the editor promises to cut that crap out, given my reluctance to block people solely on their views I'd probably support an unblock with a very very short leash but even then I wouldn't really push much. Nil Einne (talk) 04:43, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose unblock: Wikipedia is not a vehicle for free speech. Editors may have whatever personal beliefs they want, but for certain beliefs, announcing them or advocating for them on-wiki in a manner that can lead to disruption may taint such editor's entire record of contributions (going backwards and forwards), disrupt the project for others, and generally bring the project into disrepute. The classical example of this is the self-described pedophile, and I believe Holocaust deniers cause the same type of disruption (child protection issues notwithstanding). There may be conditions under which an unblock may be granted. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 05:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support block Sorry, Wikipedia is a cabal, not a congress. What I am saying here is that freedom of speech on Wikimedia wikis is limited. WP:NOTCENSORED doesn't mean you can make personal attacks. Honestly, I was blocked on Commons for 1 week for saying that the WMF is a nazi twice (but later unblocked one day). --Pokéfan95 (talk) 06:24, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support block - While Wikipedia is not censored, is it not a vehicle to exercise Free Speech. We are a community that edits solely by the grace of the Foundation and our fellow editors. When an editor's actions are offensive enough that it would offend a consensus of editors, we have empowered the community to disallow that editor from participating. It doesn't require a brightline violation of policy to do this, only consensus, as editing at Wikipedia is not a right, it is a privilege. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 14:03, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support block as per Dennis Brown's succinct and clear reasoning. Irondome (talk) 23:32, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support block - We as a community have dealt with plenty of this (example), albeit not always so severe. The edit summary alone is appalling. This is not even a borderline case - I am very alarmed by the user's claim that "I never promoted Nazism, racism, or anti-semitism anywhere here (those are point of views); my userpage was just a collection of info which mistakenly had POVs and bad sources." I'm unconvinced, given the other "holohoax" and Obama references. Accordingly, I am joining the pile-on. Enough already. GABgab 19:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Support block - We are trying to build an encyclopedia, and this kind of behaviour is very disruptive. I am pro-free speech, but I also believe that actions have consequences. We have plenty of users who can run the MOSNUMscript without being disruptive. Tolerating stuff like this will drive away good users. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 03:03, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Asilah1981
Asilah1981 (talk · contribs) I came across this editor after a recent report on ANI and found their edits questionable.
- removal of sourced statements (WP:IDONTLIKEIT), which now seems to be devolving into an edit war.
- A questionable statement on White Puerto Ricans, which I reverted was answered by this and this. More prodding on my side finally started a discussion and as it turned out, the statement was an example of WP:SYNTH.
- The editor in question seems to have a history of disagreements, amongst others in Afro-Puerto Ricans, Spain (See the talk page),
- The straw that broke the camels back, however, was this.
Regards, Kleuske (talk) 11:14, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Kleuske has been for some strange reason tracking my edits, and automatically reverting them. A hostile behavior which is fine. Only issue is his decision to remove 10 sources which support an undisputed and uncontroversial claim because he clearly very much doesn't like it WP:IDONTLIKEIT, or more likely doesn't like me.
- [221]
- [222]
- [223]
- The curious thing is that the more sources I add which solidly back an uncontroversial claim which is replicated and well-sourced in a number of articles on both English and Spanish language wikipedia (that Puerto Ricans have African ancestry inherited from the Guanches of the Canary Islands), the more insistent he is on deleting it. I don't really know how to discuss with him on Wikipedia since he seems not to be even aware that the Canary Islands are in Africa or that the Guanches were an African ethnic group. His strategy is quoting extracts for which he doesn't provide the source and blankly denying the content of the ones provided.
- Both his disruptive behavior on the said articles and this rather pointless Notification seems to me to be motivated by personal reasons of a user who is picking for a fight with someone (in this case me), since he clearly does not understand nor have a desire to understand the topic discussed. I would like to point out that the last someone opened an ANI against me the editor in question was immediately blocked, so yes I have a history of dealing with disruptive editors. Asilah1981 (talk) 11:41, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- The above is indicative of this users attitude towards dissent. I would like to point out that i've waded through all the sources Asilah1981 provided, and came to the conclusion that none of them supported the statement I contested. If Asilah1981 thinks differently, one source which does support his claim, would suffice. Kleuske (talk) 11:51, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ah... "His strategy is quoting extracts for which he doesn't provide the source and blankly denying the content of the ones provided.", the extracts i quoted were taken directly from the sources Asilah1981 provided. The fact that they seem unfamiliar to them is telling. Kleuske (talk) 12:08, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Asilah1981 has long been disruptive on both the White Puerto Ricans article and many articles relating to Spain, Puerto Rico, Canary Islands and other Spanish possessions - especially in regards to race and ethnicity topics. The user steadfastly refuses to read others' retorts and explanations and thinks themselves above all WP policies or even above reading the articles they are trying to link to to presumably make their fictitious point (which tends towards OR/Speculation/Synthesis) when it, in fact, undermines it, cf. The earlier dust-up on the Talk page of the article these two users are currently embattled over - Asilah1981's obstinate use of the word "Caucasian" despite repeated emphasis that that word was not a synonym for "white" and the subject of the article was "white", etc. User is combative, aggressive, and a very strong applicant of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. JesseRafe (talk) 14:49, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I confirm the above statements. Asilah1981 has a very long record of disruption to the WP, a close check to his edits and personal page history, visible and removed, should suffice. I will not dwell more on all the issues related to this editor, just the latest evidence I could spot some days ago, here, and followed by my reply, pretty upset, here. Iñaki LL (talk) 21:40, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've also encountered difficulties with Asilah1981. I've considered a number of his edits to be on the dubious side since I encountered him/her from the beginning of the year, but carried on cleaning up refs, etc. on a number of articles surrounding the subject of Latin America following AGF and, I'm sorry to say, without checking the changes as thoroughly as I usually do if my nose starts to twitch. I hadn't noticed that content and refs were being added and removed on one particular article until a comment was made here on the Afro-Puerto Ricans talk page. While the comment was unwarranted (and I did make a note about inappropriate interaction on the relevant editor's talk page), after checking through Asilah1981's changes, I couldn't qualify it as being incorrect. Most of the activity went on from early March until about 28 March when I checked back over the changes being made during a period of time I'd spent confirming cites, fixing dead and corrupted links, and finding substitute sources where possible, hence my not noticing edits being made in between my reading and translating. A pattern of an uncomfortably racially motivated POV has emerged in Asilah1981's behaviour. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:39, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- With some dismay, I have to conclude that the edit-warring and POV-pushing continues on White Puerto Ricans, Bullfighting and Spaniards, arguments are being misrepresented in Talk:Spaniards ("Germanic" is equivocated with "German", Spanish with "proto-castilian spoken in Northern Spain") and WP:FRINGE-sources introduced (Steward Synopsis, Racial Amnesia. Kleuske (talk) 11:46, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- We actually have an article called White Puerto Ricans? Seems a bit SYNTHetic and/or "X in Y"-ish. EEng 14:07, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I thought so, too, but by the same token it's unlikely to stand up to an AfD as self-identification and academic research into the area of the 'whitening' of Puerto Rico is abundant. Whether it stands up as a spin-off article is another issue. That's where the SYNTH comes in in terms of the development of which ethnic groups are prominent. From my reading of the sources, the brunt of the academic discussion is not about which 'white ethnic groups' constitute the majority of the 'whiteness', but the self-identification as being white. For me, the majority of the article is WP:OFFTOPIC and breaches WP:NOR by developing sections on countries for which there are main articles on the subject. (But, then, I'm going off-topic by discussing content here when it's Asilah1981's editing behaviour that is in question.) --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Can an admin please semi-protect Operation Barbarossa? / HarveyCarter socks
| Article protected. SQLQuery me! 23:42, 8 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It is coming under sustained vandalism by the well known banned user Harvey Carter. Thanks! Irondome (talk) 18:36, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:81.132.48.174 and User:165.120.240.166 quack very loudly: same HarveyCarter MO, same HarveyCarter location in the UK. The 81 IP is edit warring against four other editors on Operation Barbarossa. I dropped a note on Bbb23's talk page, but he doesn't seem to be around right now. BMK (talk) 18:39, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:81.159.6.158. BMK (talk) 18:48, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Semi-protected by Dennis Brown for 90 days. Sorted. Irondome (talk) 19:14, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Well, sorta sorted. Dennis also blocked 81.132, but 165.120 and 81.159 are still free to edit. (Sorry, Irondome, I re-opened your close, since there is still an issue not yet dealt with.) BMK (talk) 19:36, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Semi-protected by Dennis Brown for 90 days. Sorted. Irondome (talk) 19:14, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:81.159.6.158. BMK (talk) 18:48, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Off site canvassing
Bringing this to the attention of others for comment. Chris Kyle is currently the locus of an entrenched content dispute, with multiple edit warriors, disruption and blatant POV-pushing. It has been alleged that there have been attempts made off-wiki to recruit people to join the talk page to "stop the Libtards" from "stealing American Sniper's valor". Without naming names or pointing fingers, I felt it was appropriate to add {{Template:Recruiting}} This diff, which might require oversight, along with the relevant file (I'm not certain about how that policy applies in this instance) is yet more evidence of canvassing. Winkelvi and DHeyward, have both persisted in attempts to remove the template from the page [224] [225] [226] [227]. The template's tone is neutral; would someone please explain to them that it should not be removed, or explain to me why it should be removed. The whole page is a rats' nest, with some serious sub-par behaviour. Keri (talk) 13:41, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Let's see: 3 doxing attempts, no evidence that there is canvassing, a bad faith SPI filed against me and then a thinly veiled template trying to support the doxing as valid. Look at the edit summaries of the editors replacing it[228]. Your supporter was blocked and you asked for multiple sanctions at 3RR (didn't happen) so now you are forum shopping/canvassing it here? If you were the one to add that template, please take it down as its main purpose seems to be to perpetuate the doxing and casting aspersions that were in three hatted discussions - whatever your intent, that's what the editor justified its existence with. All the offsite links were blanked before I could even see them but the 3 doxing attempts was apparently somebody with the last name of "Heyward" is on Facebook and you chimed in that it was "troubling." Meanwhile the only new editor was the IP that came to warn us. It was semi-protected so the warnings, doxing and newbie contributions stopped which was when you decided to add the template. For what purpose? It seems the effect was only to perpetuate harassment of me. --DHeyward (talk) 14:37, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Also there is hardly any dispute. The article has been stable for a over a year. We are waiting on the Navy to address the concerns raised and following consensus until consensus changes. The person that was not doing that is sitting out for a week. --DHeyward (talk) 14:46, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've already made it very clear that I don't think any of the main actors from that page are involved in canvassing. The screenshot provided bears no resemblance to your name or anyone else's involved in that page. As for multiple sanctions, yes, I think you should have been sanctioned for edit warring. But that's by the by: you were lucky. The fact remains that an external website is encouraging people of a particular POV to edit the page. The template informs them about consensus and !vote. Keri (talk) 14:50, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- For reference, it was doxing and anyone who's been here long enough will see it (I've been completely doxed before). It was lame and false, but not unrelated. Second, if you want to cry out that you think something should be oversighted, don't post the accusations and links on ANI. It perpetuates the harassment as do templates that call attention to it. --DHeyward (talk) 15:01, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- It won't be oversighted unless someone asks for it to be oversighted. FYI I was unaware of anyone attempting to out your identity, either past or present. I didn't upload the image to commons, but I tagged it for speedy deletion. It is only because someone has just emailed me that I have any inkling what you're talking about. Keri (talk) 15:17, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- For reference, it was doxing and anyone who's been here long enough will see it (I've been completely doxed before). It was lame and false, but not unrelated. Second, if you want to cry out that you think something should be oversighted, don't post the accusations and links on ANI. It perpetuates the harassment as do templates that call attention to it. --DHeyward (talk) 15:01, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've already made it very clear that I don't think any of the main actors from that page are involved in canvassing. The screenshot provided bears no resemblance to your name or anyone else's involved in that page. As for multiple sanctions, yes, I think you should have been sanctioned for edit warring. But that's by the by: you were lucky. The fact remains that an external website is encouraging people of a particular POV to edit the page. The template informs them about consensus and !vote. Keri (talk) 14:50, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
if dheyward says its doxing, isn't he basically admitted he is the person doing the posting on facebook? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PatriotWolf359 (talk • contribs) 15:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC) — PatriotWolf359 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. baseballbugs i just registered yesterday bcuz it wouldnt let me provide the screen otherwise last time i posted people asked for a screen why are you being insulting?
- As this can no longer be discussed openly, I have emailed ArbCom instead. Closure seems sensible and prudent as the incidents can't be solved or discussed here. Keri (talk) 15:43, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Uh, no. I am not posting on facebook. The hideous thing about doxing is the "prove the negative" condition where I must reveal my IRL identity. It's why we have strict policies on doxing which you (patriotwolf) are violating. How much personal information are you requiring me to provide? --DHeyward (talk) 15:55, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
if you claim it is doxing you are saying someone is providing your identity which means youre the one posting to facebook trying to get people to come slam the rfc — Preceding unsigned comment added by PatriotWolf359 (talk • contribs) 15:56, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Attempted outing is against the rules, no matter whether the information is true or false. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:02, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment Agree. The consequence for WP:OUTING is severe, and immediate. Let it be executed immediately. Muffled Pocketed 16:04, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
- Comment Keri was warned yesterday by admin [230] to stop pursuing. Keri ignored an awful lot to perpetuate this attempted outing including the 3 hatted discussions on the talk page. The warning was specifically for a boomerang. Everything Keri has done including the templates, is to call attention to it. Now Keri is trying to deflect a boomerang by saying she emailed ArbCom but for what purpose? It seems to me as if that's an attempt to only bring it to another forum in the hope that it will deflect an outing sanction here that she was warned about. --DHeyward (talk) 00:17, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Note that the editor that was blocked for edit warring, that Keri was supporting, has now been indeffed for being a sock [231]. His previous socks have a history of creating Joe Job accounts as "proof" of recruitment and collusion [232]. Had Keri heeded the warning, the socks agenda would not have been advanced. --DHeyward (talk) 04:20, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- The warning was directed at PVJ, not me. My response in that thread is here. For someone who is so concerned that they are being outed, you really are the only one who is still waving a banner and drawing attention to that which you claim outs you. You haven't requested any oversights, it was me that requested the screenshots on Commons be speedied, and after I was emailed by another editor making me aware of pertinent information I said this should be closed, and emailed ArbCom instead. I think you are a thoroughly unpleasant person, and your behaviour throughout this dispute has been appalling; I wouldn't attempt to deliberately out you, however. As you have effectively trumped any discussion about off site canvassing, I suggest you drop the stick. Keri (talk) 10:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- No, Keri, my behaviour was not appalling and was quite reserved considering the invective and accusations being launched at me by the now indeffed PVJ. I didn't see the image until I saw you linked it here. I don't particularly care about the information being oversighted. I do care about the behaviour that continued to thoroughly enable unpleasant editors like PVJ to continue their crusade. I'm sorry you don't see your role in this mess as enabling a now banned Joe Jobbing sockpuppet. Previously, under a different account, he doctored IRC logs to make it appear as if a WP editor was canvassing him. There simply was no canvassing - it was a ruse to foment discord. I realize you were likely duped by this person and not being malicious but if you come out of this with a polarized view, then his trolling was successful. --DHeyward (talk) 11:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Making bogus "outing" accusations is most certainly appalling, and it is offensive to those of us who have suffered legit outing attempts. At the very worst, you had someone impersonate you off-wiki and post your (not private) information on Facebook; at best, you engaged in off-wiki canvassing and are trying to blame it on someone else. This very clearly is not outing, and the fact that someone who doesn't like you has been blocked for sockpuppetry is an off-topic red herring. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:26, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- What part of outing policy didn't you understand? If I posted on-wiki to a facebook post by someone named Hijiri and claimed it was you, that's outing. It's not a hard policy to understand. Impersonatiton is also classical harassment. It's reprehensible that you are supporting it and even giving it credence. --DHeyward (talk) 11:00, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- This is a nebulous area. I have had one oversighter claim that providing links on-wiki to off-wiki profiles is not outing, then a different oversighter claim the opposite. From casual conversation it appears some are under the impression that on-wiki "DHeyward is person 'Dobby Heyward'" would be outing, but "DHeyward is account 'dobbyheywardfacebookprofile' is not. The relevant part of WP:Outing is "Posting links to other accounts on other websites is allowable on a case-by-case basis." Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:17, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- (This entire comment is directed at DHeyward, depite the indentation.) No, if you claimed someone on Facebook called Hijiri was me, I would take it as a joke, as Hijiri is very obviously not my real name. It would technically kinda-sorta fall under the broad definition of outing given on WP:OUT, but even if I tried to get someone blocked for it it probably wouldn't work out for me. Now, if I edited Wikipedia under my real name and someone linked to a post I made off-wiki under the same name, it most definitely would be outing, but if I emailed oversight they would tell me it's my own fault for choosing to edit Wikipedia under my real name (please don't force me to partially out myself by explaining how I know this). Now, if I edited Wikipedia under my real name, and I posted publicly on Facebook about my Wikipedia activity, in a manner that violated Wikipedia policy, and someone linked to this and said it was probably me, then I would get blocked and or TBANned, and the person who kinda-sorta technically outed me would probably get off with a soft warning.
- Note: I don't think "D. Heyward" is your real name, and I doubt it was you who posted on Facebook. But if it weren't for a load of peripheral stuff related to sockpuppetry and users who were blocked before this even started, I think the user who "outed" you would not be blocked for it, as all they did was post a link to what very much looks like off-site canvassing, which is usually considered to be acceptable even if it is sometimes kinda-sorta in breach of the outing policy. Again, please look at the actual cases I linked to above, one of which came before ArbCom and the other of which involved a CU-enabled editor "outing" a user by connecting their "pseudonymous" account with their real-world identity. This is not as black and white as you seem to think.
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:42, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- These weasel-worded excuses for outing and harassment are just that. If I posted a like to a real world identity and said it was you, that's a violation of WP:OUT. Unlike your claim, none of the blocks had occurred before this ANI. That's why the drive by poster, (blocked after his comment) was making claims that the FB poster was me. That was done in this thread. Read it. Facebook is real life identities. It would be even worse if I made up s Facebook identity with, put "wiki name is Hijiri88" on the facebook profile and started posting to extremist groups to discredit you. That's what just happened to me. You still think that would be okay? How about if after that, we all just said "It's probably not you but let's put up this generic template just in case." I was fortunate that it turned out the harassers were caught so I wouldn't have to prove anything as you seem to suggest is necessary. And yes, I have been doxxed in much more insidious and direct ways when the wiki part was just the beginning. I am not looking for a block for Keri. She was duped. But the lesson doesn't appear to have been learned given the excuses you keep making. --DHeyward (talk) 15:47, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's not outing You seem to believe that the Facebook post was made by someone who disliked your Wikipedia edits impersonating you, and you may well be right. If you are right, however, then what happened here definitely is not outing. Someone used the information you posted on-wiki to pretend, briefly, to be you on an external site. Outing involves posting your off-wiki information on Wikipedia; posting your on-wiki information on Facebook is the opposite of outing. While saying "Your real name is D. Heyward, isn't it? Are you this person on Facebook?" is a violation of the letter of WP:OUT, if you had been engaged in off-site canvassing it would not be considered a form of harassment, and if it was the person who said this impersonating you off-site then there was neither intention nor effect to out you according to the spirit of the policy. You are the one being a wiki-lawyer here, not me. I am not saying I approve of what was done; I am saying that it is not outing, and that you are using what was done to you apparently by an already-blocked user to attack everyone else. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 21:37, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- Take a step back and a breath. Posting a link on-wiki to an offsite, IRL account with a name is outing. You are hungup on truthiness which does not matter. Nobody posted anything on Facebook that they were me, they posted on WP that the Facebook account was me. You have it ass-backwards and yes, it is a form of outing. Sorry you can't see that. The spirit and letter is "don't post on wiki to IRL accounts or attempt to connect a wiki account to an IRL account." Stop parsing and splitting hairs. I am also not attacking anyone. I didn't bring this to ANI and the blocks of the Joe Job sockpuppet didn't happen until the OUTing attempt was paraded to 3 notice boards. I am lucky that I don't have to "prove" it wasn't me to people that don't understand policy. The problematic post wasn't on Facebook, it was on Wikipedia and that is very clear from the 3 hatted "Outing" discussions on the Kyle talk page which I know you've see. If you think it's not outing, feel free to reopen them but the admins that hatted it may have an issue (as will I). --DHeyward (talk) 00:03, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's not outing You seem to believe that the Facebook post was made by someone who disliked your Wikipedia edits impersonating you, and you may well be right. If you are right, however, then what happened here definitely is not outing. Someone used the information you posted on-wiki to pretend, briefly, to be you on an external site. Outing involves posting your off-wiki information on Wikipedia; posting your on-wiki information on Facebook is the opposite of outing. While saying "Your real name is D. Heyward, isn't it? Are you this person on Facebook?" is a violation of the letter of WP:OUT, if you had been engaged in off-site canvassing it would not be considered a form of harassment, and if it was the person who said this impersonating you off-site then there was neither intention nor effect to out you according to the spirit of the policy. You are the one being a wiki-lawyer here, not me. I am not saying I approve of what was done; I am saying that it is not outing, and that you are using what was done to you apparently by an already-blocked user to attack everyone else. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 21:37, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
- These weasel-worded excuses for outing and harassment are just that. If I posted a like to a real world identity and said it was you, that's a violation of WP:OUT. Unlike your claim, none of the blocks had occurred before this ANI. That's why the drive by poster, (blocked after his comment) was making claims that the FB poster was me. That was done in this thread. Read it. Facebook is real life identities. It would be even worse if I made up s Facebook identity with, put "wiki name is Hijiri88" on the facebook profile and started posting to extremist groups to discredit you. That's what just happened to me. You still think that would be okay? How about if after that, we all just said "It's probably not you but let's put up this generic template just in case." I was fortunate that it turned out the harassers were caught so I wouldn't have to prove anything as you seem to suggest is necessary. And yes, I have been doxxed in much more insidious and direct ways when the wiki part was just the beginning. I am not looking for a block for Keri. She was duped. But the lesson doesn't appear to have been learned given the excuses you keep making. --DHeyward (talk) 15:47, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- This is a nebulous area. I have had one oversighter claim that providing links on-wiki to off-wiki profiles is not outing, then a different oversighter claim the opposite. From casual conversation it appears some are under the impression that on-wiki "DHeyward is person 'Dobby Heyward'" would be outing, but "DHeyward is account 'dobbyheywardfacebookprofile' is not. The relevant part of WP:Outing is "Posting links to other accounts on other websites is allowable on a case-by-case basis." Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:17, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- What part of outing policy didn't you understand? If I posted on-wiki to a facebook post by someone named Hijiri and claimed it was you, that's outing. It's not a hard policy to understand. Impersonatiton is also classical harassment. It's reprehensible that you are supporting it and even giving it credence. --DHeyward (talk) 11:00, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Making bogus "outing" accusations is most certainly appalling, and it is offensive to those of us who have suffered legit outing attempts. At the very worst, you had someone impersonate you off-wiki and post your (not private) information on Facebook; at best, you engaged in off-wiki canvassing and are trying to blame it on someone else. This very clearly is not outing, and the fact that someone who doesn't like you has been blocked for sockpuppetry is an off-topic red herring. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:26, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- No, Keri, my behaviour was not appalling and was quite reserved considering the invective and accusations being launched at me by the now indeffed PVJ. I didn't see the image until I saw you linked it here. I don't particularly care about the information being oversighted. I do care about the behaviour that continued to thoroughly enable unpleasant editors like PVJ to continue their crusade. I'm sorry you don't see your role in this mess as enabling a now banned Joe Jobbing sockpuppet. Previously, under a different account, he doctored IRC logs to make it appear as if a WP editor was canvassing him. There simply was no canvassing - it was a ruse to foment discord. I realize you were likely duped by this person and not being malicious but if you come out of this with a polarized view, then his trolling was successful. --DHeyward (talk) 11:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- The warning was directed at PVJ, not me. My response in that thread is here. For someone who is so concerned that they are being outed, you really are the only one who is still waving a banner and drawing attention to that which you claim outs you. You haven't requested any oversights, it was me that requested the screenshots on Commons be speedied, and after I was emailed by another editor making me aware of pertinent information I said this should be closed, and emailed ArbCom instead. I think you are a thoroughly unpleasant person, and your behaviour throughout this dispute has been appalling; I wouldn't attempt to deliberately out you, however. As you have effectively trumped any discussion about off site canvassing, I suggest you drop the stick. Keri (talk) 10:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Drive-by comment Posting a link to off-site canvassing that explicitly mentions a Wikipedia RFC is not in itself a form of OUTing, and indeed is commendable both as detective-work and as contextualization for anything that comes out of said off-site canvassing. Speculating as to the real-world identity of a particular Wikipedia user is a form of OUTing, but depending on the circumstances the consequences need not necessarily be "severe, and immediate". In cases where someone posts in a public forum under their real name and explicitly states their Wikipedia username in an attempt to get around Wikipedia conduct guidelines (including those related to canvassing), linking to this off-site canvassing is indeed a form of outing, but the real culprit and the one who will likely get the short end of the consequence stick is the user who outed themselves in order to engage in off-site canvassing. In this case, it would appear that the off-site canvassing did not mention the canvasser's Wikipedia username, so linking is not itself outing, as there is no attempt made to link a Wikipedia user with a real-life person. (What Patriotwolf did in this thread is indeed outing and blockworthy.) If, as in the historical Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rashumon and Fearofreprisal/Jesus historicity/Reddit cases, there is only one user on one side of an on-wiki dispute and this user publicly canvasses off-site and effectively outs themselves, linking to such discussion is effectively outing, but I have never heard of anyone being sanctioned for this. In this case, it would appear that the canvasser did not explicitly connect their username to their real-world identity on- or off-wiki, and there is more than one person on each side of the on-wiki dispute, so whether "outing" took place in the now-collapsed talk page discussions is ... questionable, at worst. Canvassing off-wiki, and then attempting to silence all discussion of discussion of said canvassing by making bogus accusations of "outing" is highly disruptive, and I am certain if this came before ArbCom that would be seen as worthy of sanction. Indeed, if it appears that someone deliberately posted off-wiki using their real name, with the intention of shouting down all accusations of off-site canvassing as "outing attempts", this is a severe offense and warrants heavy sanctions.
- And I don't want anyone claiming I am not sensitive to the nuances of OUTing. I know how bad legit OUTing is. I had my parents' home address posted on-wiki, and I was also deeply involved in the two cases of off-wiki canvassing linked above.
- Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Hijiri88: And I hope you would be offended if someone implied it might have been you posting your parents address in order to game the system. Did you read the talk page Talk:Chris Kyle? Did you see the editor that is now blocked has a history of Joe Job accounts (i.e they went to the trouble of creating two facebook accounts with an attempt to create a likeness to wiki editors). They post to an extremist group, screenshot it and then come to wiki to "warn" us of off-site canvassing with an insinuation that the likeness in name points to a wiki editor. It's the same thing that the sockmaster has done before. Please don't say you understand the policy and then dismiss it. I didn't close any of three discussions that called it outing and missed seeing the evidence as the links were dead. I only called it out when I removed the "canvassing" template was calling attention to it. There is no canvassing as the Joe Job sock account was responsible for it as well as edit warring. Keri keeps claiming the template is okay and has brought it to no less than 3 forums in support of the sockpuppet that only has Keri's support. Please tell me you understand how acquiescing to the demands of the Joe Jobbing sock is disruptive, further invites more doxing attempts and destroys the collegial editing atmosphere. Keri's second sentence in this ANI is "Without naming names or pointing fingers" - is pretty self-evident that she knew the accusations of canvasing was an outing attempt. "Gaming" is very much involved when an editor is aware of an outing attempt but cloaks material support for that attempt and calls attention to it after being asked to stop.
- Here's Keri's edit after the outing attempt [233] - read and tell me if you think there are no fingers being pointed. --DHeyward (talk) 08:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- @DHeyward: I'm confused -- are you accusing someone of trying to frame you for canvassing by impersonating you off-wiki, or are you accusing them of attempting to out you by linking to a post you actually made yourself? These two seem mutually exclusive, but...? Or are you accusing someone of trying to 'out' you by impersonating you off-wiki and speculating that the name you use on-wiki is your real name? Outing, as defined on WP:OUT, would involve posting (or attempting to post) your off-wiki information on Wikipedia, not posting your on-wiki information on Facebook. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Hijiri88: Someone created an offsite account with a likeness to my wiki account. They posted a recruitment message in some group and then came on wiki basically saying it was me. Posting a link to an offsite account claiming it is a WP editor, whether that information true or false, is a violation of WP:OUT policy. I didn't see the post, only the accusation by the IP that it was me. You should read the diff and policy again. Not mutually exclusive. Luckily, they linked the editor to a sock known for Joe Jobbing. Your line of questioning was the logical next step in "proving" it was false is having to answer whether my wiki name is my real name or not. Read the on-wiki diff [[234]]. Pretty clear-cut vio by the IP. --DHeyward (talk) 11:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- @DHeyward: I'm confused -- are you accusing someone of trying to frame you for canvassing by impersonating you off-wiki, or are you accusing them of attempting to out you by linking to a post you actually made yourself? These two seem mutually exclusive, but...? Or are you accusing someone of trying to 'out' you by impersonating you off-wiki and speculating that the name you use on-wiki is your real name? Outing, as defined on WP:OUT, would involve posting (or attempting to post) your off-wiki information on Wikipedia, not posting your on-wiki information on Facebook. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not personally seeing any deliberate attempted outing, but I do see cause for concern about the fairly obvious canvassing, posted in several FB places. Since the evidence has apparently been deleted (except for quoted text here [235]), I don't see that there's much further need for non-admins to opine here on the outing-vs.-canvassing debate. Now that the alleged canvassing has been noted, and the article full-protected, and presumably eyes are on the TP and RfC for SPAs etc., I think this whole debate can possibly be put to rest -- or admins should settle it. I'm more concerned about the blatantly non-neutral RfC statement. In my opinion, that RfC needs to be scrapped completely and re-opened without the POV text. It is for !voters to decide what is or isn't a reliable source (and an autobiography certainly fails as an independent automatically reliable source), not the framer of the RfC. This can also be taken up at WP:RSN. -- Softlavender (talk) 07:38, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Softlavender: There was no canvassing. Joe Job sock puppet (now blocked) sowing seeds of mistrust which the template was a part. This [236] is part of the problem. Am I the only one seeing fingerpointing and an attempt to link me to offsite accounts by the Joe Jobber? --DHeyward (talk) 08:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Fun fact: PatriotWolf359 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a possible sock of Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who has been blocked as a likely sock of SkepticAnonymous - sure brings back old memories. GABgab 19:09, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Personal attacks in AfD nomination
| AfD nominator blocked one month for violating WP:NPA, by Fram; the AfD-nomination itself not compromised (non-admin closure) Muffled Pocketed 12:17, 9 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Schrödinger's Rapist (still visible in this version)
- Accompanied by this diff
It's notable that the editor User:DracoEssentialis was blocked earlier this year for personal attacks.
I tried putting a collapsible table around the attack but was reverted by a third party. Requesting either a caution or a temporary block to encourage this user not to use processes like AfD to be a jerk to other users. (I've never filed an AN/I before, so not sure about process.)--Carwil (talk) 14:18, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- How the hell does a gratuitous personal attack and rant like what's in that AFD nomination stay for days without anyone removing it? Is DracoEssentialis one of those special editors who can get away with any level of abusiveness because they are also content creators? Deli nk (talk) 14:33, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Whilst lacking so little in accuracy, eh? Muffled Pocketed 15:25, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Na, it was more likely a combination of 1.No one saw it, apart from serial AFD stalkers, the nominator and the original author, it was not getting a wide audience. 2.Those who did see it not disagreeing entirely with the sentiment. Only in death does duty end (talk) 15:30, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I that's partially true. I saw it, and I disagree with the statements. Many people saw it, and a disturbing amount of people agree with it. ThePlatypusofDoom(Talk) 18:46, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- OK, I don't follow the drama around here closely enough to have understood the language of the AfD as a personal attack on a specific person, so I just read the rest and !voted to merge, based on my own google search and the arguments posted before I got to the AfD. But then I read the taunt posted by the nominator to the talk page of the article creator. That taunt is a picture-perfect example of the kind of on-wiki interaction that turns decent people with little appetite for polemics away from our project. If it doesn't prompt some sort of administrative response, it reflects poorly on our whole endeavor. If we mean to keep building and maintaining an encyclopedia, we need to arrest the toxicity that this talk page message so thoroughly exemplifies. David in DC (talk) 21:19, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- I that's partially true. I saw it, and I disagree with the statements. Many people saw it, and a disturbing amount of people agree with it. ThePlatypusofDoom(Talk) 18:46, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Regarding nobody taking notice, the first two users to comment at the AfD were admins. @Drmies and Wbm1058: is there some context that's not immediately obvious which makes this a non-issue? Is everybody just friends, and the rest of us are hypersensitive? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 00:33, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Context? Oh, I don't know--long-standing antipathy, maybe, possibly mutual. I did not see something blockable here, but I have to admit that I didn't look that closely at the lengthy nomination statement. I see plenty of sarcasm, sure. Drmies (talk) 01:31, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Blocked for a month. He or she was blocked for personal attacks for a week in April 2016, so I escalated it to a month this time. The AfD can continue as far as I am concerned, but this doesn't excuse the manner in which the creator of the article was addressed. Fram (talk) 12:01, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Racism in South Korea
I'm trying to avert an edit war here, currently low level but with the potential to escalate. My attention was caught by this edit by AmericanExpat and there are further comments on my talk page. I wouldn't normally bring a content dispute here, but I have to say that I find the tone of this article, including the title, quite worrying. I would welcome comments/edits from other experienced editors to try to improve this article , or at least give more oversight of what is going on. Thanks Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:40, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Please be advised I have started an attempt at discourse and made specific suggestions for bringing neutrality and objectivity to the article as well as cleaning up the citations. I, too, would like to avoid an edit war and would like some third party oversight on the matter.
- AmericanExpat (talk) 06:28, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I haven't examined this matter and do not intend to. I do, however, notice that your latest (and enormous) addition to the talk page deletes somebody else's comment. I recommend that you quickly reinstate that comment, however much you may disagree with it. -- Hoary (talk) 07:21, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hoary I am unfamiliar with the edit interface on Wikipedia. If you or someone else can figure out what I inadvertently deleted, please restore it without deleting my comments. Thanks. AmericanExpat (talk) 08:46, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've reinstated the accidentally-deleted section. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:19, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I just want to mention that I initiated a deletion request recently, where I also stated my major problems with the article like the lack of reliable sources, especially since I find mainly journal articles should be used for such a topic. Moreover, I find it is rather a list of incidents and original research. Almost all sources are newspaper articles and I have a lot of issues with Korea Observer. They are maybe now "registered as a business", but for me, the site is still a blog and they also refer to that they have been nominated for a blog award. I also left my comments on the article's talk page. Unfortunately, I have no more motivation to edit this article but I hope some people will understand the issues on the article when looking on the talk page and maybe will improve it. --Christian140 (talk) 12:19, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've reinstated the accidentally-deleted section. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:19, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Hoary I am unfamiliar with the edit interface on Wikipedia. If you or someone else can figure out what I inadvertently deleted, please restore it without deleting my comments. Thanks. AmericanExpat (talk) 08:46, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
User:RFX Dealers
| User Blocked and tagged. SQLQuery me! 23:40, 8 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
RFX Dealers (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) I'd like to assume good faith on this one, but this "new" user has been around all of five days, and has made contributions such as this, this and this. They seem to know about GA/FA from their edit history, are quick to use prod tags without knowing about the notability concerned, and based on that last diff, I suspect they are a sock of User:KgosarMyth. Their talkpage is already awash with warning messages, and words fail me for their actual user page. If someone could take a look, I'd be grateful. Thanks. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 09:14, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Sock of TeaLover1996? MuffledPocketed 09:39, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: TeaLover1992 isn't a registered username. Anarchyte (work talk) 11:15, 5 June 2016 (UTC)- Sorry for the confusion Anarchyte and thanks for pointing out the error. I assumed I'd got the year correct when it showed up as a blue link. Odd! I'm not sure it is him actually, now; similarly busy userpage, but this editor seems to have a slightly stilted use of language, whereas (I think) Tealover was native. Muffled Pocketed 11:26, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Sock of TeaLover1996? MuffledPocketed 09:39, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:RFX Dealers certainly seem to be edging into WP:CIR territory but for what it's worth I do not think they are either of the users mentioned. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:30, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks everyone. If nothing else, the Fissan article certainly needs looking at. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 07:13, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm almost certain it isn't Tealover1996 - a large percentage of Tealover's edits were to football articles, and this user doesn't have any. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:40, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, Fissan has the feel of a copy and paste, particularly as User:RFX Dealers's English doesn't appear to be very good. In fact, the first two sentences beginning "Fissan was founded in 1930..." appear to be copied from a Google translation of fissan.com/Chi Siamo and the rest from a Google translation of the article Fissan on de.wikipedia. The page is up for deletion at AFD so further input can be provided there. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 14:40, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- OK, well, User:RFX Dealers has been blocked as a sockpuppet of User:Synthelabobabe21. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:29, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Malcolmxl5: Will slap some G5s around. The sockmaster looks familiar... what's this socker's MO? EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 22:37, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- User:Velella identified them very early on as having identical user pages and very similar style of generally disruptive editing: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Synthelabobabe21/Archive. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:01, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Malcolmxl5: Will slap some G5s around. The sockmaster looks familiar... what's this socker's MO? EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 22:37, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Appreciate this is now closed, but thanks to all involved. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 13:02, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Setad article
Hi,
Can WP admins review the edit history of this article and add it to their watchlist? I don't want to enter into "WP:edit wars".. If not, this may rapidly decay into a tool for (Iranian) propaganda and this is against WP:NPOV. Thanks in advance for your review. 86.106.23.246 (talk) 08:48, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)An editwar in the making and/or content dispute gone bad between two newbies
- A third user got involved, but doesn't qualify as SPA. They may be just be an intervening onlooker. All accounts are brand spanking new. I'll notify the users in question. Kleuske (talk) 14:04, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- P.S. Maybe Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring (WP:AN/3 for short) is a better venue. It's intended to deal with situations like this. Kleuske (talk) 14:08, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Kswikiaccount
| (non-admin closure) I'm taking up the OPs suggestion and closing. Discuss the content dispute on the talk page. No case has been built sufficient to support admin actions at this time. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:27, 9 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am having a bit of a dispute with Kswikiaccount (talk · contribs) over at Democratic Party presidential primaries, 2016. The prior version of the article was this: [237], this was modified by an IP here [238] which I reverted but later tried to add a more NPOV tone here. [239]. A bit later Kswikiaccount made an edit on the talk-page [240] calling myself, and @JFG: out saying "I have a hard time assuming good faith". Before a discussion could begin on the matter the article was reverted [241] back to a version that pre-ceded JFG's edit claiming a consensus was in place. I then reverted the editor who reverted me back (1RR prevents me from going further) again claiming that a consensus was in place when there wasn't. [242] I am a bit stuck now on what to do... - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:36, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- My suggestion would be to take it to DRN --Cameron11598(Talk) 22:05, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- The issue at hand though is establishing a consensus before edits are made so it involves multiple editors for a solution. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:07, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
kswikiaccount response
Immediately there is evidence this editor has lied. I am quoted as saying "I have a hard time assuming good faith". As in, he quotes me as having said exactly those words. I went to the linked page, did a search using ctrl+f to copy paste what Knowledgekid87 quoted, and chrome found 0 instances. I did a search for "assuming good faith" and these are the only 4 hits I get at 4:10 pm PST:
- "I'm trying really hard to keep assuming good faith, there has been a lot of 'mistakes' on this article." by me at 19:52, 8 June
- "you even said above that you had a hard time "assuming good faith" I mean what is up with that?" by him at 21:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- "I am assuming good faith, which is why I am asking you if there is some bias on your part" by me at 21:17, 8 June 2016
- "No you are not assuming good faith. You are being passive-aggressive" by him at 21:22, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
In 2 you can see he asks me "you had a hard time "assuming good faith" I mean what is up with that?" at 21:13 even though I had already answered him before at 19:52 in 1 and even at 21:04 when I stated "Your behavior is very strange to me because you seem to be throwing a bunch of guidelines at me with the intention to get me not to edit the page." Clearly knowledgekid87 is having some issues. I'm not sure what those issues are though, which is why I asked him instead of, like him, making assumptions and wild accusations.
So basically the evidence points to me attempting to assume good faith, not making accusations against him, asking him questions, and him doing the opposite of me.
- "Before a discussion could begin on the matter the article was reverted"
Knowledgekid87 is trying to portray it this way:
- He does not need consensus to change the page from its original state to an altered state, BUT I need permission to edit the page to how it was originally a few hours ago before he made edits on the page.
- I am the one breaking the 1RR when I edited his edit, even though his edit did not revert mine, but (he claims) my edit of him violates 1RR. But he is, somehow, not breaking the 1RR when he edits my edit of him.
Ok. Now let's look at his own evidence. He claims that I had broken the 1RR, he has currently put his argument that I did not seek consensus aside for the moment while focusing on the 1RR. He has six pieces of evidence to try and prove that I broke the 1RR:
- The first piece of evidence in his post is labelled as 1, which could be confusing because he calls it "prior version of the article" but links a diff. It would make more sense to link not the diff, but the original page showing the bottom right bar labelled "Additional delegate votes needed for nomination" because this was the original page.
- The second piece of evidence shows some random IP stating a fact. JFG had edited the page to say that Bernie Sanders has, and I quote by copy/pasting, "No more path to nomination", which is actually incorrect as I explained so simply in my post to the Talk Page. BTW I posted in the talk page before altering the actual page.
- The third piece of evidence labelled as 3 in his post tries to show that he added an NPOV by changing "No path to nomination" to "No path to nomination with pledged delegates", which is either a) incorrect because I think he is trying to say "no path to nomination with current unpledged delegates", which is correct assuming that the future is predicted, but I think wikipedia tries not to predict the future or b) factually incorrect, because "with pledged delegates" even Hillary Clinton does not have a path to nomination since they will both need the unpledged delegates to get over the hump to nomination.
- The 4th piece of evidence I have already responded to in the beginning, but i would like to add that knowledgekid87 has been extremely hostile towards me and his brief interaction with me has left me physically, emotionally, and psychologically exhausted. What is worse is that I have already told him to take his hostile behavior down when I said, "this interaction has left me physically, emotionally, and psychologically exhausted." Also notice how even though I explicitly stated "I am assuming good faith" he goes on to say in his next edit that "No you are not assuming good faith. You are being passive-aggressive".
- The 5th piece of evidence in his post is a link showing me changing the page back to its original state with the following statement from knowledgekid87 stating that the I did the "edit claiming a consensus was in place", but I actually never stated consensus was in place, in fact, if anyone sees where I claim this please tell me because my edit was made with the following comment "Please avoid changing Bernie Sanders Delegate Votes Needed until getting the go ahead on the Talk Page".
- His sixth piece of evidence is him showing me changing his revert of my edit. Notice how his edit was made with the following comment, and I am copy/pasting the quote, "Please don't mess up the layout". He states this because if you look at the previous state of the page, you will find that there was a formatting error which made the page unreadable. I had fixed the error, assuming he was speaking about the error. So there was no error anymore and I restated my comment, not to knowledgekid87 because I assumed his problem was with the formatting.
- This is where knowledgekid87's good faith comes into the picture.
Initially at 20:12, 8 June 2016 he reverts my edit and says "you get a consensus here THEN you change the article". Which as I stated above is nonsensical, because if this is true then what is his dispute with me? He is one of the people that violated this rule by not seeking consensus when they changed the article from its original state, which is shown in his first confusing piece of evidence which shows a diff instead of the actual state of the page.
So I respond to him slightly confused, "Great, feel free to follow your own advice. You changed the article before getting consensus."
Then his next responses switch from me having to Seek Consensus to 1RR, which again is nonsensical because he violated the 1RR when he initially reverted my edit which fixed my "mess up [of] the layout" which was an edit of him editing the page to remove its original state.
Now as I did here, I want to ask again, is there a reason he is trying to keep me from editing the page? Many of his edits are strange to me, like this factually incorrect statement "Sanders math-wise has no chance of winning the nomination" or the other ones linked above where he claims NPOV while making statements that are false such as this one saying Bernie Sanders has "No path to nomination" or the strange flip flopping (from get consensus to 1RR) and, what looks like to me, Gaming The System in the Talk page and now here in the Dispute Resolution to keep me from editing the page. Kswikiaccount (talk) 23:53, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
- Apparently Kswikiaccount had not been given the discretionary sanctions notice for WP:ARBAP2; I remedied that little problem. 1RR is not nonsensical here. I'm sorely tempted to lock the page until this wording issue is resolved. Stop reverting each other and start working to settle this. Katietalk 02:20, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- A few users are dominating the page. I think the page needs outside help to fix it. There are two sides on it and they've been in the middle of a battle for months now. I don't think telling either side to work together is going to help, except maybe get me and 2 other users to simply leave the page alone to people that have been making irresponsible edits. I think the worst thing wikipedia could do is leave it to consensus because me and 2 or 3 other users keep suggesting people add information while we are harassed by a few of the 5-10 users that keep deleting and altering certain information. Everyone is getting frustrated. I think the best thing we can do is have someone watch over the page to encourage the responsible addition of information.
- If you look at the page right now, without consensus the page says "Mathematically eliminated". That is insane because I prove in the talk page that "mathematically" it is still possible for Sanders to get elected. Kswikiaccount (talk) 03:32, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Can you kindly say who is "dominating" the page? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:34, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- This is another one of your edits where you are blaming a user: [243]. You need to focus on content not the editor. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:38, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Withdraw I would like to withdraw this thread if I can, a discussion on a possible solution is taking place on the disputed article's talk-page. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:10, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I don't think this should be withdrawn. I would like someone to go over what happened so I can know who was doing what. Was I actually violating NPOV, Consensus, 1RR, and harassing users, or was knowledgekid87 Gaming the System, advancing an NPOV, violating 1RR while claiming I was the one violating it, and badgering me? I've been left exhausted in every way by his, in my opinion, hostile interaction with me, and it is not the first time I've been harassed this way, but it is the first time I didn't just stop using wikipedia when it happened. Kswikiaccount (talk) 04:56, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I stand by my diffs that I provided, had a proper discussion had started sooner none of this would have happened. At this point I think it would be in the best interest of everyone to move on. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 05:00, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I have previously asked for some administrative attention to close some of the discussions on Talk:Democratic Party presidential primaries, 2016, which is apparently the talk page for the article in question here.
- I now ask that at least one administrator monitor this page (which is under discretionary sanctions) to put a stop to any disruptive editing practices that may have occurred on these pages recently.
- The user initially under question here has recently stated on several another user's talk pages that: "Don't argue with them, just revert their edits and make them send it to arbitration." & "I'm in the middle of a dispute resolution with one of those nutjobs." (apparently in relation to this AN/I thread here). Guy1890 (talk) 05:57, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- It's good that knowledgekid has removed his comment requesting the withdrawal. Here is him violating the 1RR multiple times in a 24 hour period, not including his revert of my edit:
- I am requesting a ban for this user as it says in the discretionary sanctions. Kswikiaccount (talk) 13:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Actually it states: "Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period)." Some of the IP edits here were in the wrong such as one saying that Sanders was "eliminated" while others removed a good bit of content. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:27, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- And I quote "An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page—whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period. An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of the rule often attract blocks of at least 24 hours. Fourth reverts just outside the 24-hour period may also be taken as evidence of edit-warring, especially if repeated or combined with other edit-warring behavior. See below for exemptions." and "The one-revert rule is analogous to the three-revert rule as described above, with the words "more than three reverts" replaced by "more than one revert"." from WP:1RR. I've simply quoted the wiki policy. Kswikiaccount (talk) 13:34, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Okay I will narrow your diffs down to 4 since it is past 24 hours. This edit here: [244] was against WP:NPOV, this edit here [245] was reverting vandalism in the form of blanking content, the others were un-discussed changes. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:43, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Here are your 1RR violations:
- And I quote "An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page—whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period. An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of the rule often attract blocks of at least 24 hours. Fourth reverts just outside the 24-hour period may also be taken as evidence of edit-warring, especially if repeated or combined with other edit-warring behavior. See below for exemptions." and "The one-revert rule is analogous to the three-revert rule as described above, with the words "more than three reverts" replaced by "more than one revert"." from WP:1RR. I've simply quoted the wiki policy. Kswikiaccount (talk) 13:34, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Actually it states: "Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period)." Some of the IP edits here were in the wrong such as one saying that Sanders was "eliminated" while others removed a good bit of content. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:27, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
This is after you made the edit as an IP here: [248]. You never took the issue to the talk-page per WP:BRD. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:51, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Here is Ks dragging another editor into this: [249]. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:52, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- How does this above post not count as harassment? He is stalking me on other pages. Also what is his complaint? Is he saying that it is ok for users that are not me to be breaking the 1RR that he quoted to me multiple times, and even posted on my user talk page? Do I need to create a separate section on this board or do I need to go to the edit warring section? Kswikiaccount (talk) 16:11, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
David Gaither (artist)
| The copyright template is in place.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:44, 9 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I initially reported this article at the COI noticeboard; another editor subsequently blanked part of it and reported the piece as a copyright violation. Since then several WP:SPA accounts have edited, always removing the copyright template. I'm not aware that the concerns have been resolved by an administrator, so I restore the template, warn the most recent account, and a few days later a new one pops up and we re-enact the dance. Assistance will be appreciated. 2601:188:1:AEA0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 11:59, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
user:Mateothehistorian
| As the fella says, no action required. And please don't treat a last resort as a first. (non-admin closure) Muffled Pocketed 18:17, 9 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
That editor seems to be reverting everything made by others today.
I see he was blocked for disruptive editing on 20 April.
I see had only 65 edits the last year (including 5 today). Alice Zhang Mengping (talk) 15:55, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- My first gut feeling is to give the user the benefit of the doubt. The reported user reverted edits made by 213.205.198.194 thinking that the edits were vandalism. I'd just message the user and either ask what the deal is, and/or let them know to review Wikipedia's guide on vandalism. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 18:12, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I was going to say, did you even bother trying to talk to the user before dragging them to ANI? Please at least put in some effort before running to ANI. I request this be closed as non-actionable. --Tarage (talk) 18:13, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Mad Hatter continuing controversial splits without discussion
| There is absolutely nothing going on here that requires administrator intervention; I find it hard to envisage something which is more obviously a content dispute. Swpb, if you really feel "under what circumstances should bibliographies be split from the articles on their authors" is a matter which can't be resolved by consensus, start an RFC and publicise it at the appropriate wikiprojects. You've both been on Wikipedia for a decade, and ought to by now know that running to ANI demanding that the other party be banned is unlikely to get you the desired result. ‑ Iridescent 19:32, 9 June 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A previous ANI on this matter did not reach a conclusion (see previous ANI here: two supports for a ban, and one oppose that chastised the practice). The editor in question has recently resumed the practice, with no change in pattern (see [250]/[251], [252]/[253]). I ask for an indefinite ban a six month ban on page splits by this editor. (I think an indefinite ban is easily justified, but six months is more likely to get support.) —swpbT 14:26, 9 June 2016 (UTC) To KoshVorlon, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz and Cullen328:
- Yikes, isn't that a bit harsh, considering how short and inconclusive the last discussion was? Can you break it down a bit more to let us know why the splits are so bad they're topic ban worthy? Sergecross73msg me 14:30, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- No, it's not harsh at all. The splits (several detailed in the last ANI) are in direct opposition to the explicit guidance of WP:SPLIT (no one disagrees with that), and therefore require consensus prior to action. The editor here has been warned many, many times to seek such consensus, and still refuses to do so. I don't see how anything less than a ban can be justified at this point. —swpbT 14:33, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Can you provide some difs then? To some scenarios where there was an active consensus not to do a split, and then we went out and did it anyways then? The only evidence you've submitted is to a discussion with very little discussion at all, let alone any real resolution. I'm not defending him, I have no idea if the splits are warranted or not, I just don't see the difs to warrant any action yet. Sergecross73msg me 17:03, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've given numerous diffs of the offending edits. I'm not sure how the lack of response to the last ANI is relevant in any way. And the point is that there is no attempt to find consensus - MH doesn't ask for consensus, wait, and then act when there has been no complaint; he acts before asking, when he is obligated to seek a consensus, whether one emerges or not. There is nothing so urgent about these splits that he can't wait for input; he just doesn't care to seek input, despite warnings from quite a few people. IAR isn't an invitation to anarchy; it's a privilege, and one that MH has continued to abuse. He should not be allowed to continue. —swpbT 17:56, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not asking for difs proving he's doing the splits, I can see pretty easily what he's doing, I'm asking for proof that he's actively editing against a consensus and/or warning regarding this. If you can't provide that, then all you've got here is a content dispute you should hash out on article and WikiProject talk pages. Sergecross73msg me 18:14, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Do you really need me to paste all the warnings he's gotten? Plainly, he's editing against the general consensus about when splits are called for; as for acting against a consensus that is specific to an article, you're introducing a standard that does not apply. The correct standard is this: 2) MH is clearly obligated to start discussions, whether they result in a consensus or not; 2) MH does not do this. Given 1 and 2, there is violation of the community-wide consensus on behavior. Given the repetition, there is need for enforcement. —swpbT 18:19, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'd like you to start linking to something. Your case so far is "I don't like how he's splitting articles. Here's some times he did it. Here's a time we discussed it with no resolution. Now ban him from this." With the dif's you've provided so far, it looks like you're trying to solve a content dispute with a topic ban. Sergecross73msg me 18:33, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Replace "I" with "the consensus of the community" and you'd have something accurate. It's been well-known and constantly reaffirmed consensus for years that, if there is any chance of a split being seen as controversial, the splitter is obligated to attempt to get a consensus first; do you deny that? —swpbT 18:39, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I understand this, but "the chance of it being seen as controversial" is a very subjective measure. It could be made much more clear if he had been warned/blocked over this before, or if there were some RFC that occurred saying don't split an article, and then he went and did it anyways. Look, feel free to keep arguing, but you should know by now that we don't enact something as serious as a topic ban on someone with as weak of a case as you've built here. I find it highly unlikely that you'll come up with a consensus for a topic band with such poor documentation of the issue. Sergecross73msg me 18:58, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I don't know how you can be so confident in the outcome when so few people have commented (seriously—for all the text, it's just been you, me, MH, and one other person), and you're still ignoring the fact that he has been warned plenty, but even if there's no action this time, there will be eventually; I don't believe MH takes any of this seriously, and I'd put money that we'll be back here until the need for action can't be ignored. —swpbT 19:18, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I understand this, but "the chance of it being seen as controversial" is a very subjective measure. It could be made much more clear if he had been warned/blocked over this before, or if there were some RFC that occurred saying don't split an article, and then he went and did it anyways. Look, feel free to keep arguing, but you should know by now that we don't enact something as serious as a topic ban on someone with as weak of a case as you've built here. I find it highly unlikely that you'll come up with a consensus for a topic band with such poor documentation of the issue. Sergecross73msg me 18:58, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Replace "I" with "the consensus of the community" and you'd have something accurate. It's been well-known and constantly reaffirmed consensus for years that, if there is any chance of a split being seen as controversial, the splitter is obligated to attempt to get a consensus first; do you deny that? —swpbT 18:39, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'd like you to start linking to something. Your case so far is "I don't like how he's splitting articles. Here's some times he did it. Here's a time we discussed it with no resolution. Now ban him from this." With the dif's you've provided so far, it looks like you're trying to solve a content dispute with a topic ban. Sergecross73msg me 18:33, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Do you really need me to paste all the warnings he's gotten? Plainly, he's editing against the general consensus about when splits are called for; as for acting against a consensus that is specific to an article, you're introducing a standard that does not apply. The correct standard is this: 2) MH is clearly obligated to start discussions, whether they result in a consensus or not; 2) MH does not do this. Given 1 and 2, there is violation of the community-wide consensus on behavior. Given the repetition, there is need for enforcement. —swpbT 18:19, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not asking for difs proving he's doing the splits, I can see pretty easily what he's doing, I'm asking for proof that he's actively editing against a consensus and/or warning regarding this. If you can't provide that, then all you've got here is a content dispute you should hash out on article and WikiProject talk pages. Sergecross73msg me 18:14, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I've given numerous diffs of the offending edits. I'm not sure how the lack of response to the last ANI is relevant in any way. And the point is that there is no attempt to find consensus - MH doesn't ask for consensus, wait, and then act when there has been no complaint; he acts before asking, when he is obligated to seek a consensus, whether one emerges or not. There is nothing so urgent about these splits that he can't wait for input; he just doesn't care to seek input, despite warnings from quite a few people. IAR isn't an invitation to anarchy; it's a privilege, and one that MH has continued to abuse. He should not be allowed to continue. —swpbT 17:56, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Can you provide some difs then? To some scenarios where there was an active consensus not to do a split, and then we went out and did it anyways then? The only evidence you've submitted is to a discussion with very little discussion at all, let alone any real resolution. I'm not defending him, I have no idea if the splits are warranted or not, I just don't see the difs to warrant any action yet. Sergecross73msg me 17:03, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- No, it's not harsh at all. The splits (several detailed in the last ANI) are in direct opposition to the explicit guidance of WP:SPLIT (no one disagrees with that), and therefore require consensus prior to action. The editor here has been warned many, many times to seek such consensus, and still refuses to do so. I don't see how anything less than a ban can be justified at this point. —swpbT 14:33, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Response: Hello, my name is Chavdar Likov. I am qualified librarian and I have been working on Wikipedia for 15 years. I am also pursuing Masters in "Electronic Content" and "Creative Writing". I have made such splits for Peter Hamilton, Gregory Benford, Kim Stanley Robinson, Robert Jordan, David Eddings, Robert Salvatore just to name of few. I saw there are huge bibliographies and section-trimmed articles and empty categories like Fantasy and Science Fiction and decided to fill them up with author bibliography-splits. I also did considering work on Historical fiction with honorable editors User:Sadads and User:Rwood128 on it. We also splitted the historical pointing article List of historical fiction by time period and configured the template. I am working here for 15 years and no one makes discussions, and User:Taeyebaar collaborates and make good stuff working on Space opera as I am great fan of these genres and I even intend a doctorate on literary theory. What I do is split these articles when there are bigger section-filled bibliographies and put them in the seperate categories. That's it. My David Gemmel, Stephen R. Donaldson and Anne McCaffrey, however after 2 years no one comments, I am patroled, reverted and threatened with ban. I don't understand why. swpb, you can easily look on my history and you can go and revert the all universe, but for these 3, you are threatening me with ban, waiting for 10 days, since no one is showing up and we have empty categories and huge bibliographies. Start a lengthy discussions on which probably no one will answer because for 2 years, there is no attention on the article. I go and split the bibliography and make redirect with filling Category:Fantasy bibliographies. Half of the bibliographies there are from my redirects, swpb. If that is such a crime - ok, ban me if you want. But I wanted to make contribution with simple redirects and rearrangements of the articles.
- Kindest regards to all administrators: Chavdar LikovThe Mad Hatter (talk) 16:48, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- 1. "Needing to fill categories" is a complete nonsense argument.
- 2. How would you know whether your split requests would get a response, since you never even start the discussion? You are obligated to start a discussion and wait a reasonable time before going forward, whether you think anyone is watching or not. You've been told that many times. If you can't learn that simple fact, then yes, you should lose your right to do any splits at all. —swpbT 18:10, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- One is not obligated to discuss before splitting. You seem to be labouring under a misapprehension, swpb. It may well be by a very large margin the most sensible approach - not least after wading into a stylistic battle such as this. But it is not obligatary, and so it is not a 'simple fact' and The Mad Hatter's inability to learn it is, thus, neither here nor there. I think the possibility must exist that you can thrash your differences out with Mad Hatter by discussion; I think the probability that you'll get an action-ban sanction here is vanishingly small. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:11, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Umm... really? Bibliographies are certainly non-controversal splits -- they are actually very good ways to separate different types of information about an author -- their life and commentary about them, and their work. I think swpb is overreacting and overapplying process without acknowledge WP:IAR (note that WP:SPLIT is a recommendation, not a guideline), for something that historically has had little or no controversy -- just challenges a personal preference on how the articles shoudl be composed. From an admin/community perspective: swpb brings no evidence of trying to resolve this with WP:AGF. From my topical expertise: It looks like a personal gripe, and from someone who also has both Digital humanities, literature and libraries backgrounds: seems to be one that directly challenges best practices in sharing information about authors's works. Hope my feedback helps, Sadads (talk) 17:01, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- I AGF'd when I first encountered MH—you can dig through his talk page if you want. That assumption of good faith was quickly erased by MH's attitude, and that erasure has been reinforced at every encounter since. I'm no longer obligated to assume good faith, when I can witness bad faith, including personal attacks and blatant canvassing. WP:SPLIT is an information page, and is required to reflect consensus, as the template says; it's not just one person's preference, as you suggest. Finally, IAR isn't an invitation to anarchy; it's a privilege, and one that MH has continued to abuse. —swpbT 18:02, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- No, you reverted my edits and continue to do so, when I am finding hard to find many projects to edit and you are patroling me, threatining me with ban, me, a librarian by profession and there was no discussions, after I was bold, and I never made personal attacks, I just told you that with this attitude of yours, I don't wanna colaborate with you, as I have colaborated with Sadads, Rwood128 and Taeyebaar, because I find it offensive to work with some one who is only patroling me, like you, posting threats to be cut off from editing, when I have experience with editing, blaming that I didn't raised discussion on sleep talk pages, just picking from first catch that I am controversial blasting vandal, that is only looking to disrupt Wikipedia, posting twice that I should be banned, and making personal attacks against me. Why are you treating me so elementary claiming that I am making controversial moves? I really don't wanna work with you. I made these kinds of splits countless times, and it is easier and better and we have Fantasy and Sci-Fi categories and these section-trimmed pages of David Gemmel, Stephen R. Donaldson, Marion Zimmer Bradley and Anne McCaffrey became too big. That is all. What is so hard to apprehend and understand? Why it is so controversial for these particular 4 authors? Since we have seperate categories for their bibliographies with users stating other topic bibliographies are around this size. Why the move is such a vandal thing by your eyes? Robert Jordan, Gregory Benford, Peter F. Hamilton, David Eddings, R.A. Salvatore, Kim Stanley Robinson, Tamora Pierce, Roger Zelazny, E. E. Smith, Frederik Pohl, Simon R. Green, Stephen Baxter, Glen Cook. With Taeyebaar we made the splits and work on high fantasy and during the last half-an-year, you don't raise objection, now you are hitting. Why? Why didn't you call up earlier? Half an year you don't raise objection, but now you put me on front pages. Why? I have no other comment.
- Kindest regards:The Mad Hatter (talk) 18:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- You didn't attack me? So "rogue editor" and "roguish and obviously destructive" don't ring a bell? Or did you forget? Trust me, if I'd been aware of your behavior earlier, I'd have done something about it earlier; are you really trying to argue that I should have gone back and reverted every split you've ever done from before I noticed you? —swpbT 18:37, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Chavdar Likov: Bibliographies and special pages in special categories like Fantasy and Sci-Fi and splitting them as was told to you is considered not so controversial edit and as a professional librarian I can tell you it is the most recommended way to show information in Wikipedia. That's all. I don't understand why you are so poisonous and so bashing and blaming and putting me in front of pages and shaming me, while you roguishily reverted 4 of these edits, when I have done around 15 of those splits, when they are not considered so controversial, when no one is talking on talk pages, and as Sadads explained to you, I can do it, there are thousands of such categories, so I think there is nothing to be ashamed off and really, it is something personal that you should spit out. Regards:The Mad Hatter (talk) 19:22, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Did you seriously just use the words "poisonous" and "rouguishily" (sp.) not an hour after claiming that you don't make personal attacks? Unbelievable. —swpbT 19:26, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- As my name was mentioned, I've taken a look at this. As far as I can see swpb has made a very poor case. However, perhaps The Mad Hatter should give advanced warning of his intentions, even if numerous previous edits were uncontested, and also avoid inflammatory language. Rwood128 (talk) 19:52, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
User:Cambalachero – bias and vandalism
Hello. I would just like to inform you that the user Cambalachero has repeatedly, and by multiple users, been accused of POV pushing and vandalizing articles, particularly ones related to Kirchnerism, such as the pages Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, and Public image of Cristina Fernández de Kirchner. Both Cambalachero and Jetstreamer have participated in the use of uncyclopedic language. One of the best examples of what I would describe as such would be Public image of Cristina Fernández de Kirchner#Political image, which contains, for example:
"The Kirchnerite administration used its aligned media and the communication outlets of the state for advocacy of the figures of both Cristina Kirchner and the previous president, her husband Néstor Kirchner. This advocacy, which describes the Kirchners as leaders of a revolution, is usually called the "Relato K" (Spanish: K narrative). The political life is described as a conflict between good and evil, in a manner similar to religious faith." The last claim, in particular, is a really strange addition to what is, after all, an encyclopedia, especially when it's unsourced.
Cambalachero has previously come with statements such as:
Such views are perfectly fine to hold – the problem is that Cambalachero is unable to keep his views out of his articles. Should someone like that really be allowed to remain the main contributor to articles about Kirchner? While the user has made great contributions to many articles here on Wikipedia, and has proven to be experienced and resourceful, his influence on Argentinian politics articles simply isn't good for anything. I have asked for both third opinions and peer reviews, which caused the reviewing user to label sections of Public image of Cristina Fernández de Kirchner as non-neutral.
Simply taking a brief look at the edit history of any of the articles mentioned unveils endless edit-warring and lengthy discussions, which I frankly think are clearly solely due to Cambalachero and Jetstreamer's inability to write factually and non-biased. I do not hold much knowledge about Kirchner or Argentine politics in general, and I've never participated much on Argentine politics articles; I am just asking – begging – for some attention to the unserious nature of Cambalachero and these articles, and some form of sanction to make it stop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Μαρκος Δ (talk • contribs) 19:08, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
- How come in Argentina the wives are always getting into the act? EEng 06:30, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- First, the content issue. According to Μαρκος Δ own admission just above, he does not hold much knowledge about Argentine politics. I have improved the articles of Raúl Alfonsín and Adolfo Rodríguez Saá to good article, Carlos Menem, Fernando de la Rúa and Eduardo Duhalde are awaiting reviews, and, although they are not ready yet, I'm the editor with the most edits of Néstor Kirchner, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and Mauricio Macri (note that those are all the presidents of Argentina from 1983 to date, regardless of political alignment). So yes, I do hold some knowledge about Argentine politics. For those who don't, Cristina Kirchner was the president of Argentina from 2007 to 2015, and her style is similar to that of the Venezuelan Hugo Chávez. The thing described in the paragraph cited (which is referenced) is not a new phenomenon: it's a system of propaganda built around a cult of personality. I know, it's not pleasing for her supporters to say it that way, but that's what it is, that is what we are talking about here. In any case, the article is fully referenced, and I can provide any clarification required.
- Now, let's see the user behavior here. The user makes a huge page blanking, I reverted it, and we head to the talk page. Common WP:BRD so far. Here, in just the second message, he accuses me of having an agenda, and here, the third one, he is already threatening with asking for moderation. Yes, I got carried away by the accusation and made a sarcastic one about his userbox that identifies him as a socialist; it was a mistake. He blanked the article again, and here he asked me to leave it that way so that he could write an alternative version and then discuss it. I told him that in those cases it is better to write the alternative in a sandbox, and we left it that way. His last edit on the matter was on May 16. I left the article with the blanking in place. As you can see in the article history, the discussion ceased until May 24. You can see in his contributions that he made absolutely no edits to create an alternative article since that point for many days, so I re-added the content a week later. A week later. He can't say I was impatient with him. It is only in June 2 that he finally makes the so promised sandbox version. We discussed about it, as I thought that the use of the word "alleged" was incorrect. He headed directly to peer review (misused, but I thought that if I pointed it he wouldn't take it well) and third opinion. He deleted my comment from the peer review page, claiming that I should not be commenting there. Robert McClenon provided his third opinion, and pointed that the use of the word "propaganda" may be problematic. Although I still thought that we should call a spade a spade, I removed the words "propaganda" and "cult of personality" from the article, as a middle ground compromise. I also incorporated the only meaningful content of the sandbox into the article, giving due credit, as it didn't really contradict anything already written (I only changed the title "Approval ratings and popular support" to the more neutral "opinion polls").
- Happy ending? Issue solved? Not at all. Here he keeps calling me on having an agenda, and here he accuses me of whatever for trying to find a compromise. He also said that one of the authors was not reliable because of a quotation that he had read somewhere, and deleted all the references to the author, without discussing it first. He also did so at the main article. He deleted many other references in the process, including Mary O'Grady from the Wall Street Journal because of being right-wing. Yes, you have read well, he considers the Wall Street Journal an unreliable source. Here he accuses the user Jetstreamer of not allowing the neutral point of view (as he reverted his removal), and here he edit wars with him over my comment at the peer review page. Here he tries to recruit the user Sushilover2000 to the discussion (surely because he's visible at the previous discussions in Talk:Cristina Fernández de Kirchner), and mentions that he plans to canvass even more people. He also mentions the comment of Robert McClenon as a support to his point, fully ignoring that I had already acknowledged it and edited the problematic word out (and he knows that). Here he said that this last comment "was a plea for technical assistance" because he could not find where to ask for moderator help; read the post yourselves and decide if that is what it is.
- I know, my comment about him being a socialist was wrong, and will not happen again. If you think that something else I did in this discussion was wrong, please tell me so I will try to see it fixed. Cambalachero (talk) 15:13, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
- Cambalachero, what caused you to compare Cristina Kirchner with Chávez?
- Looking at the public image article, it looks like a pure 'hatchet job', full of trivial 'jibes' and lacking any pretence of NPOV, despite being largely a WP:BLP,
btw, there is no such English word as 'Slangs', the word cannot be plural and is possibly the wrong word, if the article is going to devote a whole, WP:OR, section to criticising her Spanish, it should try at least to get the English right.I concur with Μαρκος Δ, whoever wrote most of that article seems unable to leave their political prejudices at home. Pincrete (talk) 20:42, 9 June 2016 (UTC) - ps Check out WP:APPNOTE, contacting editors who have contributed to prior discussion is explicitly NOT canvassing. You might wish to strike those comments. Pincrete (talk) 21:01, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
- Looking at the public image article, it looks like a pure 'hatchet job', full of trivial 'jibes' and lacking any pretence of NPOV, despite being largely a WP:BLP,