위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive995
Wikipedia:도네츠크 인민 공화국의 총선(2014년)
도네츠크 인민공화국 총선(2014년)은 며칠 전 논의됐던 아르메니아 시위(2018년)와 같은 이슈를 안고 있다.그 글은 읽을 수 없으므로 이 상태에서는 볼 수 없도록 해야 한다.이전에 사용자에게 연락하여 서식을 작성하려고 시도했으나 토론을 시작할 수 없었다(다른 사용자도 있음).이제 다시 해볼게.그 이전의 실수에 따르면, 그 오류는 기계 번역의 결과인 것 같다.이것은 내 능력(번역/언어/인내성)을 훨씬 뛰어넘지만, 나는 그것을 보고해야 한다고 생각했다.고마워, 제시카피에르스 (대화) 19:53, 2018년 10월 20일 (UTC)[
- 기존 기사인 2014년 돈바스 총선거가 있다.그것은 DPR 선거와 LPR 선거를 모두 처리했다.그들을 함께 있게 하는 것은 현명하다고 여겨졌다.그 새 기사는 다시 예전 것으로 합쳐져야 하는데, 내가 지금 했던 것이다.RGlucester — 인터뷰 20:00, 2018년 10월 20일 (UTC)[
- 그것이 그 기사를 고쳐주지만, 나는 Gilasebasн가 영어에 어려움을 가지고 있는지 궁금하게 되었다.나는 그의 사용자 대화를 요청했다.그의 세계적인 공헌과 이곳의 사용자 토크 페이지 게시물은 러시아어가 그의 주된 언어라는 것을 암시한다.Yngvadottir (대화) 13:29, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 같은 상황, 다른 기사 (새로운 실을 시작해야 할지 알려 주지만, 정보를 그룹화하는 것이 도움이 될 것 같았다): 이 버전의 에두아르 바수린을 보아라, 최근에 추가된 п사스 н과 함께 말이다.러너웨이엔젤은 이전 버전을 읽을 수 없었기 때문에 내가 전적으로 지지하는 대부분의 기사를 방금 삭제했다.따라서 사태는 해결되었지만, п사스н이 이와 같은 내용을 제출하고 있는 것은 진행 중인 사안이다.제시카피에르체 (대화) 2018년 10월 21일 19:18 (UTC)[
- 두 사람을 헷갈리게 하는 것 같은 그가 만든 이 페이지에 관심을 끌고 싶다. --Runawayangel (토크) 19:44, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[
- 같은 이슈의 기사가 적어도 하나 더 있는 것 같다.[1] --Runawayangel (대화) 20:03, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[
- 알렉산더 아난첸코 기사는 편집 요약에서 인용한 참조를 본문 안에 실제로 기록하지 않고 있기 때문에 뭔가 이상한 일이 벌어지고 있다. 하지만 본문의 잘못된 이름은 다른 기사를 템플릿으로 사용하고 그것을 바꾸는 것을 잊어버린 것에서 유래한 것 같다.이것은 또한 다른 위키백과 기사에서 온 승인되지 않은 번역인 것 같지 않다. 반대로 폴란드 위키백과 기사는 그것에서 파생된 것 같다.하지만, 그는 여기서 응답하거나 사용자 대화에 아무 대답도 하지 않고 계속 편집해왔고, 만약 그가 영어에 심각한 문제가 있다면, 그것은 심각한 능력 문제다.(Commons and ru에 관한 그의 역사.위키피디아는 또한 관심을 가지고 있다; 둘 다 저작권 위반자로서 그를 차단했다; 그러나 그는 여기서 다른 일을 하고 있는 것처럼 보인다.)그래서 나는 유일하게 러시아어를 구사하는 관리자인 임블란터(Ymblanter)에서 그가 п사스н과 대화할 수 있기를 바라며 핑을 할 것이다.Yngvadottir (대화) 13:22, 2018년 10월 22일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 그들의 홈페이지에 글을 남겼는데 도움이 될지는 모르겠지만 적어도 우리는 모든 것을 시도했다.-임블란터 (대화) 13:53, 2018년 10월 22일 (UTC)[
- @Ymblanter:우린 아직 문제가 있어.당신이 메시지를 남긴 이후, 편집자는 아마 폴란드의 위키백과 기사에서 나온 기계번역 텍스트를 알렉산더 아난첸코에 추가했는데, 아마 그들은 그것을 거의 읽을 수 없게만 정리했을 것이다. 여기 내가 하루 후에 그것을 읽을 수 있게 하기 위해 해야 했던 일이 있다.그들은 또 다시 너무 높은 해상도로 영화 포스터를 올렸고, 또 다른 파일도 올렸는데, 그럴 수 있다. 물론, 나는 파일의 해상도를 줄이는 방법을 알지 못한다. 그래서 나는 포스터를 올리는 것을 피한다. 그리고 스크린샷을 위한 훌륭한 공정한 사용 근거를 어떻게 써야 할지 모르지만, 그들은 이미 알고 있다.지나치게 높은 해상도에 대해 여러 번 들었고, 그들이 여기에서 어떠한 진술도 하지 않은 것처럼, 아직 당신이나 다른 누군가에게 도움을 요청하지 않았다.아마도 다음 단계는 기계번역을 중단하라는 최후통첩과 해상도를 줄이는 방법에 대한 설명일 것이다.@Kilasebassн: 당신은 당신의 토크 페이지나 여기에서 우리와 대화를 할 필요가 있다.Yngvadottir (대화) 20:26, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 그들의 홈페이지에 글을 남겼는데 도움이 될지는 모르겠지만 적어도 우리는 모든 것을 시도했다.-임블란터 (대화) 13:53, 2018년 10월 22일 (UTC)[
- 두 사람을 헷갈리게 하는 것 같은 그가 만든 이 페이지에 관심을 끌고 싶다. --Runawayangel (토크) 19:44, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[
- 같은 상황, 다른 기사 (새로운 실을 시작해야 할지 알려 주지만, 정보를 그룹화하는 것이 도움이 될 것 같았다): 이 버전의 에두아르 바수린을 보아라, 최근에 추가된 п사스 н과 함께 말이다.러너웨이엔젤은 이전 버전을 읽을 수 없었기 때문에 내가 전적으로 지지하는 대부분의 기사를 방금 삭제했다.따라서 사태는 해결되었지만, п사스н이 이와 같은 내용을 제출하고 있는 것은 진행 중인 사안이다.제시카피에르체 (대화) 2018년 10월 21일 19:18 (UTC)[
- 그것이 그 기사를 고쳐주지만, 나는 Gilasebasн가 영어에 어려움을 가지고 있는지 궁금하게 되었다.나는 그의 사용자 대화를 요청했다.그의 세계적인 공헌과 이곳의 사용자 토크 페이지 게시물은 러시아어가 그의 주된 언어라는 것을 암시한다.Yngvadottir (대화) 13:29, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 기존 기사인 2014년 돈바스 총선거가 있다.그것은 DPR 선거와 LPR 선거를 모두 처리했다.그들을 함께 있게 하는 것은 현명하다고 여겨졌다.그 새 기사는 다시 예전 것으로 합쳐져야 하는데, 내가 지금 했던 것이다.RGlucester — 인터뷰 20:00, 2018년 10월 20일 (UTC)[
레프데스크 반달
안녕, Refdesk bandal이 다시 활성화됨(Wikipedia:참조_desk 하위 페이지).누가 좀 치워줄래?고마워, 헨리Flower 09:07, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[
- 모두 되돌림 -Abelmoschus Escanticus 09:10, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 반달(봇?)은 어떻게 해서든 이 최근의 총기 난사 사건이 일어나기 전에 확증된 상태에 도달했다.Refdesk의 보호 수준을 높여야 하는가?로저 (Dodger67) (대화) 09:24, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다, 현재 진행중인 이 혼란은 해결되지 않고 있는 것이 꽤 분명하다.같은 사용자가 1분에 한두 번 이상 자료를 올리지 않도록 하는 것도 좋을 것 같다.그냥 고쳐줘, 내 감시 목록을 망치고 있어, 특히 관리자들이 일요일에는 일을 안 할 때 말이야...The Rambling Man (talk) 09:30, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[
- 비슷한 형태의 공공 기물 파손이 여러 빌리지 펌프 페이지에서 발생했다.로저 (Dodger67) (토크) 21:37, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)[
- 즈즈즈즈에게 핑핑을 하는 것, 뭔가 덧붙일 것이 있을지도 몰라.로저 (Dodger67) (대화) 21:45, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)
- 확신할 수 없는 몇 가지 중요한 차이점들이 I. -- Zzuzz 21:59, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)
- 너무 많이 드러나면 대답하지 말고, 특정 편집자에 대한 더 많은 외출 공격에 대해 얘기하는 겁니까?아니면 새로운 건가? --Guy Macon (토크) 06:59, 2018년 10월 22일 (UTC)[
- 헬프 데스크와 찻집도 파괴하고 있어그는 정말 우리의 반반자주의 네트워크를 압도하고 있다.펑플루스마트 (대화) 2018년 10월 22일 12시 17분 (UTC)[ 하라
- 정말? 여기서 내가 몇 년 동안 반반달리즘 네트워크를 압도하는 것은 내가 들어본 적이 없는 일이지, 일어난 일은 훨씬 더더욱 아니다. 군집토크 20:49, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 특히 독성 LTA는 지속적으로 그렇게 하려고 시도한다.나는 JarlaxleArtemis가 그의 "Grawp" 페르소나로서 더 활동적이었을 때를 기억한다. 그는 특히 우리를 압도하기 위해 무작위 기사를 괴롭히려고 끊임없이 4chan 멤버들을 모집하려고 시도했다. 그러나 그의 제안을 실제로 받아들인 사람들은 점점 더 적었다.—제레미브^_^vBori! 22:05, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 내 말은 이 반달리즘이 우리에게 (Ref Desk와 헬프 데스크와 같은) 애논과 새로운 사용자들이 편집해야 할 페이지를 보호하도록 강요하고 있다는 것이다.그리고 지금까지 그는 이것을 막기 위해 필터와 다른 모든 수단을 편집하는 데 성공했다.페이지 보호는 많은 경우에 있어서 최후의 수단이고, 이 사람은 이 시점에서 경험 없는 사용자들을 위해 30-500개의 필수 페이지를 강요했다.내 말은 이 특정한 반달로 인한 혼란을 막을 수는 있지만, 우리가 많은 부수적인 피해를 주는 행동을 해야만 한다는 거야.이 사람이 빨리 이 일에 싫증을 냈으면 좋겠는데, 지금까지 그는 멈출 기미를 보이지 않았다.펑플루스마트 (대화) 22:02, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 정말? 여기서 내가 몇 년 동안 반반달리즘 네트워크를 압도하는 것은 내가 들어본 적이 없는 일이지, 일어난 일은 훨씬 더더욱 아니다. 군집토크 20:49, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 가이 마콘 그래, 똑같아. -- 로저 (도저67) (토크) 16:15, 2018년 10월 22일 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아는 모든 사람들에게 열려있다. 만약 당신이 백과사전을 만드는 일을 오랜 시간동안 한다면, 당신은 당신이 개인적으로 모욕적인 행동을 하는 모든 것을 고려하고, 그들이 고정시킨 사람을 "노출"하는 것이 그들의 신성한 의무라고 생각하는 당신의 개인적인 스토커를 끌어 모을 가능성이 있다.정말 한심하지만, 왠지 다른 사람들이 왜 자신의 행동을 영웅적으로 보지 않는지 알 수 없는 것 같다. --Guy Macon (토크) 17:34, 2018년 10월 22일 (UTC)[
- 헬프 데스크와 찻집도 파괴하고 있어그는 정말 우리의 반반자주의 네트워크를 압도하고 있다.펑플루스마트 (대화) 2018년 10월 22일 12시 17분 (UTC)[ 하라
- 너무 많이 드러나면 대답하지 말고, 특정 편집자에 대한 더 많은 외출 공격에 대해 얘기하는 겁니까?아니면 새로운 건가? --Guy Macon (토크) 06:59, 2018년 10월 22일 (UTC)[
- 확신할 수 없는 몇 가지 중요한 차이점들이 I. -- Zzuzz 21:59, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)
- 즈즈즈즈에게 핑핑을 하는 것, 뭔가 덧붙일 것이 있을지도 몰라.로저 (Dodger67) (대화) 21:45, 2018년 10월 21일 (UTC)
사용자가 임의로 이전에 편집한 내용을 되돌리는 경우.
임시 범위 블록 적용, 문제가 지속되면 Bishonen 또는 Ivanvector에 알림(비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 06:33, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자 2A02:A31B:8444:A800:B4B3:713A:B계속 편집을 되돌리는 FB4:B995. 내가 Talk 페이지에 대한 기여를 무시하고 히튼 무어의 페이지에 만든 편집 내용을 임의로 되돌리는 데 착수했다.누구에게 보고해야 하고, 어떻게 하면 협박을 멈추게 할 수 있을까?고마워요.
C0페르니쿠스 (대화) 13:36, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[ 하라
그것은 오히려 스토킹처럼 보인다.그러나 그것은 새로운 설명이기 때문에 그저 (이상한) 우연의 일치일 수도 있다.더 가능성이 높은(시간대를 고려할 때) 계정은 과거에 상호 작용한 적이 있는 계정이다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 16:20, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 사물을 되돌리는 것밖에 없는 새로운 사용자인데, 사물의 겉모양에서 이미 한 글에 3RR을 넘겼다.봇 오작동?사이먼m223 (대화) 16:22, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
하지만 너는 그들에게 이 ANI에 대해 제대로 알려줬어야 했어.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 16:22, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 이 페이지 상단에 있는 파란색 상자에서 빨간색으로 표시된 텍스트를 참조하십시오. --David Biddulph (토크) 16:37, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 지금 처리하고, 내가 그들에게 알렸다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 16:48, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 다시 생각해 보면 그것은 아마도 보복처럼 보인다.2a02:a31b:8444:a800:514d:b5dd:6b18:2486. Simonm223(대화) 16:55, 2018년 10월 24일(UTC)[ ]의 편집 이력을 참조하십시오
- IPv6 편집자에게 통지하는 것은 쓸모없는 일이며, 일반적으로 그것들은 /64 CIDR의 주소 간에 빠르게 전환되기 때문에 그 주소들 중 하나에 그것들을 ping하는 것은 올바른 사용자에게 통지할 18조 분의 1의 가능성을 가지고 있다.이번 2A02:A31B:8444:A800:0:0:0:0:0/64(블록 범위 · 블록 로그 (글로벌) · WHOIS (부분적))는 파괴할 때를 제외하고는 되돌리는 것 같으며, 8월 말경부터 구체적으로 C0페르니쿠스를 되돌리고 있으며, 맨체스터 관련 주제에서는 주로 발생하지만, 편집자 역시 프리커음과 같이 전혀 관련이 없는 페이지로 따라가고 있다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 17:07, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 운영 중단 편집을 위해 31시간 차단된 범위.그들은 분명히 무차별적으로 되돌아가고 있고, 3월의 편집 내용을 되돌리고 있고, 편집 요약을 한 적이 없다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 17:12, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 다시 생각해 보면 그것은 아마도 보복처럼 보인다.2a02:a31b:8444:a800:514d:b5dd:6b18:2486. Simonm223(대화) 16:55, 2018년 10월 24일(UTC)[ ]의 편집 이력을 참조하십시오
- 분명 장기적인 문제라 31시간 구간이 다소 짧다.도움이 되길 바라지만, @C0pernicus: IP가 2A02로 시작하는 경우:A31B:8444:A800은 블록이 만료된 후에도 계속 당신을 스토킹하거나, 여기 다시 오거나, 내 페이지에 직접 내게 말해줘.아니면 말해줄까, 이반벡터?비쇼넨 토크 21:08, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)
여러 IP 공격 픽셀
(관리자 이외의 폐쇄) IP 범위가 차단됨.토네이도 추적자 (토크) 00:45, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
우선, 나는 이 문제를 구체적으로 언급할 다른 곳이 어디인지 확실하지 않지만 나는 이 문제에 약간의 관심이 필요하다고 생각한다.나는 다양한 유사한 IP들이 픽셀 3 페이지를 편집하는 것을 보았다.나는 그 문제가 공공 기물 파손이라기 보다는 NPOV에 반하는 것이라고 말하고 싶다.다음은 IP 주소 목록이다.
예로는 [2], [3], [4], [5](실제로 이것은 괜찮은 조치였지만 여전히 일반적인 편집 요약), [6](비평이 아닌 모든 것에 대해 되돌리기) 등이 있다.페이지 보호가 종료된 후 어떻게 진행할지 확실하지 않다.이러한 편집에 대해 동일한 사용자인 것 같지만, ISP는 며칠마다(또는 심지어 몇 시간마다) 다른 IP 주소를 주므로 어떤 경고도 차단할 수 있다고 생각한다. {{uw-multipleIPs}}
여기에는 없는 공공 기물 파손만을 지적한다. – The Grid (토크) 20:59, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- /24 범위를 차단했다.그들은 IP를 통해 빠르게 순환할 수 있고 작동하지 않는 IP 깡충깡충이다.그들은 WebGUI에서 여러 번 역전을 한 편집장이다.다른 편집자들은 9개의 토크 페이지에 메시지를 남기려고 노력했지만 그들은 이에 반응하지 않는다.편집자들은 그들을 계속 쫓아내려 할 필요가 없다.그들은 계정을 얻거나 IP 홉을 멈추는 방법을 찾을 수 있다.
— 베레안 헌터(토크) 21:36, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[ - 알아봐주고 IP 범위에 대한 정보를 제공해줘서 정말 고마워.– 그리드 (대화) 22:25, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
Santanu99: 지속적인 운영 중단 편집 및 역량 부족
사용자 및 양말 막힘.(비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 06:25, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
Santanu99 (대화 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 사용자 차단 • 로그)
인도의 고등교육 기관에 대한 기사를 스크리핑하는 것이 주된 활동인 보고된 사용자는 단기간 동안만이 아니라 영원히 거대한 시간 단축과 프로젝트에 대한 순 부정적이기 때문에 가능한 한 빨리 문을 열어야 한다.그들의 토크 페이지는 비자유 이미지 업로드, 저작권 위반(다른 곳에서 발견된 저작권된 텍스트 추가, 그들의 기여도에서 비난받은 항목 참조, 그리고 최근 그들의 토크 페이지에 있는 여러 개의 경고 참조)에 대한 경고로 가득 차 있으며, 기사를 반복적으로 오려붙이고 또 다른 기사로 옮기려고 시도하고 있다.이는 해당 기사로 리디렉션되는 기사에서 다루는 내용 중 일부만 다루고(여기 페이지 기록 참조) 비소싱 자료를 다수의 기사에 반복적으로 추가한다.또한 그들이 인도 공과대학을 인도 공과대학으로 이전하려는 최근의 시도 이후 파괴적인 편집에 대한 최종 경고를 받는 것에 대한 응답으로 그들이 받는 경고를 읽고 이해할 수 있거나 다른 사람들과 의사소통할 수 있을 만큼 영어를 충분히 알지 못한다는 것은 명백하다.그들 대화 페이지에 D기술, Shibpur(그들의 두번째 등 오늘, 그들은 멈추지 않을 것을 보여 주고...)이런 기둥:.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:.Georgia,"DejaVu 세리프",serif, 색:#008560, 인용문 아무 것도 없}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:상속을 하다;font-style: 기울임 꼴}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{인용:")"""\""}"GOTO 지옥, 그럼 그날 Try..넌 아무것도 몰라.
위키백과 재단은 기금을 느슨하게
할 것이다."
라고 말했다. IMHO는 완전한 능력 부족에 대한 나의 주장을 증명한다. - 톰토마스.W talk 11시 24분, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 네(그들이 말하는 것을 듣고 그가 방금 거기에 메시지를 남겼고 절대적으로 만화경 같은 경고를 보았다는 것을 알았다.)나는 그들 중 몇몇이 저작권 자료의 추가와 관련이 있다는 것을 안다. 그것이 바로 내가 인도 공과대학인 Shibpur에서 그들이 복원하기 위해 진행했던 것을 빼냈을 때, 나를 그곳으로 데려갔던 것이다.나는 그들이 지난 5년 동안 얼마나 많은 시간 낭비를 했는지 궁금하다.———SerialNumber54129 14:09, 2018년 10월 23일(UTC)[
- 이 계좌는 5년 전 등록됐지만 올해 7월 초까지만 해도 4개월도 채 안 되는 왜곡 편집에 그쳤지만 이후 국내에서 약 1,000건의 편집이 누적돼 실제로 건설적인 편집은 거의 없었다.2014년과 2015년의 초기의 편집본을 살펴보는 것도 흥미롭지만, 초기의 편집본들 중 몇몇은 첫 번째 편집본을 포함하여, 여기 편집 첫날부터 오늘까지 정기적으로 여기에 카피바이오를 추가하는 것처럼 보이기 때문이다.그들이 며칠 전에 카피비오(Copyvios)를 리비전한 Kazi Nazrul University는 또한 그들이 편집한 최초의 기사로, 2014년과 2015년에도 이 기사에 의해 리비전된 것으로, 그들이 지난 몇 년 동안 아무것도 배우지 못했다는 것을 보여준다. - 톰 토마스.W 15:18, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 무한정 차단됨.비쇼넨탈크 15:34, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)
- @Bishonen:당신은——————SerialNumber54129 15:55, 2018년 10월 23일(UTC)
- 이것은 내가 지금까지 본 것 중 가장 멍청한 시도임에 틀림없고, User:라는 이름의 새로운 계정을 만들었다.산타누98 그리고 산타나99를 이용해서 산타나99의 토크 페이지를 새로 만든 양말로 옮기고... - 톰 토마스.W 16:12, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 산타누98도 이제 막혔다.자이언트 스노우맨 16:22, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
등록이 안 된 거야?그들은 그저 그들의 이야기를 존재하지 않는 페이지로 돌리려 했다.그건 인정하게 대충 요약한 거야.아, 거기 TW의 어설픈 철자법:) 그래, 그건 좀 어리석은 짓이었지?———SerialNumber54129 16:28, 2018년 10월 23일(UTC)[
- Err yes it was - "2018년 10월 23일 12시 46분에 생성" ...자이언트 스노우맨 16:34, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- @GiantSnowman:나도 알아; 하지만 원래 철자가 달랐어.———SerialNumber54129 13:54, 2018년 10월 24일(UTC)[
동음이의어 애드호미넴
알았어지속되는 동안 재미있었어.내년 4월 1일 이 공간으로 돌아와 리얼타임. --Jayron32 17:06, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
[7] EENG 18:16, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
광고 동음이의어?음, 아니, 내가 말하고자 했던 것은:우리는 여기서 매우 중요한 일을 하느라 매우 바쁘다.경박할 시간이 없다. --Floquenbeam (대화) 18:23, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[ 하라- 진심이야, 은아.이것 위에 있는 실을 보고 우리가 정말로 이것을 할 시간이 있는지 자문해보라.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:16, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
- 이 팝업이 뜨는 것을 보았을 때, 내 질문은 "그래?Eeng이 너에게 이런 일을 시켰니?오타는 내가 경박할 시간이 많다는 것을 알고 있었고, 어쩌면 낚시를 좀...-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 19:28, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 진심이야, 은아.이것 위에 있는 실을 보고 우리가 정말로 이것을 할 시간이 있는지 자문해보라.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:16, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
- 빌어먹을 EENG!이 개새끼야.이럴 시간 없어우리. 하지 마. have. TIME. 이 게시물은 소중한 자원자원을 낭비해버렸고, 솔직히 복구하는데 얼마나 걸릴지 잘 모르겠어.사람들이 여기서 보내는 매 순간, 귀중하고 소중한 일들이 행해지고 있는데, 당신은 그것을 우리에게서 훔쳐갔다.부메랑 TBAN을 모든 유머의 사용에 대해 광범위하게 해석하여 제안한다. 군집토크 19:58, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
이건 어때?SemiHypercube ✎ 20:01, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 또한, 이것은 이 실을 닫아야 한다는 것을 상기시켜주는 것이다.나는 이것에 대해 말장난으로 ENG를 앞질렀다.SemiHypercube ✎ 2018년 10월 23일 20:04(UTC)
- 이 실타래는 내가 상상할 수 없을 정도로 성공하고 있다.EENG 21:49, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 상상력이 분명히 부족하고, 너무 슬프고, 너무 슬퍼. --Tryptofish (토크) 22:44, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
이게 호민관에 대한 이유야?power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:22, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 여기서 전기 기술자를 1초간 차단한다.컬렌렛328 04:47, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC) 토론하자[ 하라
- 무슨 죄목으로?배터리?호크예7(토론) 09:54, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
사용자:MjolnirPants
OP 인데버트가 Bb23에 의해 차단됨. (비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 16:57, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 그 기사의 주제가 신나치주의자들과 백인 민족주의자들에 의해 영감을 받았다는 논쟁의 여지가 있는 BLP 주장을 삭제했다[8특정 라인은 WP:V 링크가 전혀 없으며 기사 본문에 의해 지원되지 않는다.주제가 그런 개인들과 소통하여 그들이 어떻게 생각했는지 물어봤다는 것에는 의심의 여지가 없지만, 그렇다고 해서 그가 그들에게서 영감을 받았다는 뜻은 아니다.그것에 대해 질문을 받았을 때, 출처가 주어졌지만, 나는 출처가 실제로 주장되고 있는 것을 말하고 있다고 믿지 않는다. 이것은 기껏해야 그 출처에 대한 분석일 뿐이다.WP에 따르면 다음과 같다.BLPREMOVE, 우리
는 (1)소싱되지 않았거나 불충분하게 소싱된,
(2) 소스에 대한 독창적인 해석이나 분석 또는 소스의 합성(원래 연구
없음 참조)인 살아있는
사람에 대한 논쟁적 자료를 즉시 제거
해야 한다.
본문을 삭제한 지 2분 후, BLP를 명시적으로 호출하고 WP에 의한 복원을 위한 합의를 요청:BLPREQUESTRESTORE, 사용자:MjolnirPants는 나의 편집 내용을 되돌리기 위해 그의 롤백 권한을 이용했다.[9] 이것은 선의의 편집을 되돌리는 데 사용되어서는 안 되는 롤백 권한의 부적절한 사용이다.또한 이 자료는 WP를 위반하여 복원되었다.BLPREQUESTRESTORE는 그것이 타당하게 소싱되었다는 합의 없이.이것이 유효한 출처인지에 대한 논쟁은 현재 위키백과에서 진행 중이다.전기_of_live_명/공지판#밀로_이안노풀로스. -Obsidi (토크) 15:00, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이것이 콘텐츠 분쟁이기 때문에, 당신의 다음 단계는 WP:아니, 닥터 매넷DTalk 15:05, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이는 본문을 추가 또는 삭제해야 하는지에 대한 문제가 아니라, 합의 없이 본문을 복원하는 행위와 롤백 권한 남용에 관한 것으로, ANI가 고려할 만한 사항이다.그는 이제 토크 페이지에 다음과 같은 답변을 썼다.
WP:CHYBLP를 읽고, 이미 완전히 소싱된 주장을 반박하는 믿을만한 출처를 제공하거나 꺼져라.
정말이야, 친구, 넌 ANI 보고서를 구걸하고 있어. 그리고 넌 곧 이런 건달로 받을거야.
[10] -Obsidi (대화) 15:08, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[- 그것은 긴급한 사건들과 만성적이고 난해한 행동 문제들을 논의하기 위한 ANI에게는 여전히 문제가 되지 않는다.만약 그가 편집 전쟁을 하고 있다면, 그에게 경고하고 WP에서 보고하라.NEW. DS 또는 GS를 위반할 경우, WP에서 경고하고 보고하십시오.AE. BLP 문제라고 생각되면 WP:BLPN에서 질문/보고하고, 검증 문제라면 WP에서 질문/보고:RSN. 다른 것이 있다면 기사토크에 토의하여 컨센서스가 무엇인지 보고, 컨센서스가 마음에 들지 않으면 다음과 같은 어떤 형태의 WP를 활용한다.MarnettD가 말했듯이, 그것은 단지 내용 논쟁일 뿐이고 롤백의 한 가지 형편없는 사용(일례로 제재할 수 없음)이기 때문에, Dr. One/2번의 편집은 ANI 스레드를 열 충분한 이유가 아니다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 15:20, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그가 나를 그의 토크 페이지에서 제외시켰기 때문에 나는 그에게 경고할 수 없다.이것은 이미 WP:BLPN에 있다. 나는 그를 되돌릴 것이다. 그러나 나는 그를 되돌릴 것이다. 여기 아래 Writ Keeper는 이미 내가 지금까지 단 한 번의 되돌림만으로 전쟁을 편집한다고 말하고 있다. -Obsidi (대화) 15:29, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC) 응답하라 ]
- 아니, 할 수 있어.USertalk 금지는 의무적인 경고와 통지에 적용되지 않는다. WP:NEW 경고는 방금 당신이 그에게 이 실에 대해 알려준 유서탈크 통보와 같은 것이다. [11] -- Softlavender (토크) 16:23, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- "이것은 이미 WP:BLPN에 올라와 있다." 따라서 여러분은 분명히 포럼 쇼핑을 하고 있다는 것을 인정하십니까? (1) MjolnirPants를 단 한 번의 편집(또는 최대 두 번의 편집) (2) 이미 기사의 토크 페이지와 BLPN에서 광범위하게 논의되고 있는 컨텐츠 논쟁에서?소프트라벤더 (토크) 16:35, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그가 나를 그의 토크 페이지에서 제외시켰기 때문에 나는 그에게 경고할 수 없다.이것은 이미 WP:BLPN에 있다. 나는 그를 되돌릴 것이다. 그러나 나는 그를 되돌릴 것이다. 여기 아래 Writ Keeper는 이미 내가 지금까지 단 한 번의 되돌림만으로 전쟁을 편집한다고 말하고 있다. -Obsidi (대화) 15:29, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC) 응답하라 ]
- 그것은 긴급한 사건들과 만성적이고 난해한 행동 문제들을 논의하기 위한 ANI에게는 여전히 문제가 되지 않는다.만약 그가 편집 전쟁을 하고 있다면, 그에게 경고하고 WP에서 보고하라.NEW. DS 또는 GS를 위반할 경우, WP에서 경고하고 보고하십시오.AE. BLP 문제라고 생각되면 WP:BLPN에서 질문/보고하고, 검증 문제라면 WP에서 질문/보고:RSN. 다른 것이 있다면 기사토크에 토의하여 컨센서스가 무엇인지 보고, 컨센서스가 마음에 들지 않으면 다음과 같은 어떤 형태의 WP를 활용한다.MarnettD가 말했듯이, 그것은 단지 내용 논쟁일 뿐이고 롤백의 한 가지 형편없는 사용(일례로 제재할 수 없음)이기 때문에, Dr. One/2번의 편집은 ANI 스레드를 열 충분한 이유가 아니다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 15:20, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이는 본문을 추가 또는 삭제해야 하는지에 대한 문제가 아니라, 합의 없이 본문을 복원하는 행위와 롤백 권한 남용에 관한 것으로, ANI가 고려할 만한 사항이다.그는 이제 토크 페이지에 다음과 같은 답변을 썼다.
- 당신은 어떤 중요한 맥락을 놓치고 있는데, 그것은 이 자료가 이미 최근에 도전받고, 답하고, 되돌리고, 복구되었다는 것인데, 이것은 단순한 BLP 집행의 경우라기 보다는 느리게 탄 편집 전쟁처럼 보이게 하고 있다.MP는 아마도 현 상태로 되돌리는데 너무 열심이었고, 그렇게 하기 위해 롤백을 사용할 필요는 없었지만, 그것은 이해할 수 있게 한다.우리는 BLP로 되돌릴 때 주의의 편에 서야 하지만, BLPN의 논의에서 증명되었듯이, 이것이 타당하게 공급된다는 MP의 주장은 불합리하지 않다; 이것은 명백한 BLP 위반이 아니다.두 분 다 편집 전쟁 때문에 송어 송어 송어 떼고 싶었는데, MP가 롤백을 위해 송어 막대를 조금 더 크게 만들었고, 오늘은 이만 끝냅시다.2018년 10월 25일(UTC) 15:16, Writ Keeper⚇[
- 이전의 되돌리기는 BLP에 기초하지 않았다(또는 적어도 그것에 대한 주장이 명시적으로 제기되지 않았다), 나의 되돌리기는 처음으로 그리고 유일하게 명시적인 BLP 주장을 한 것이다. 그리고 그것은 내가 그 페이지에 했던 유일한 되돌리기다.그래서 나는 내가 전쟁을 편집했다고 믿지 않는다.그리고 나는 그것이 타당하다고 주장하는 국회의원의 주장이 불합리하다고 주장하는 것이 아니라, 합의에 의해 그가 옳다고 결정하게 될지도 모른다.하지만 그럴 때까지 BLP 자료를 선의로 제거했고, 합의로 타당성이 판단될 때까지 복원해서는 안 된다. -Obsidi (토크) 15:21, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그런 식으로는 안 된다.전쟁 정책 편집의 인용 방법
다음과 같은 반전은 편집-전쟁 정책에서 면제된다 (...) 우리의 BLP 정책에 따라 명예훼손, 편파적, 비협조적 또는 불충분한 논쟁적 자료를 제거하는 것이다.
BLP 하에서 면제되는 것으로 간주되는 것은 논란이 될 수 있다.
이러한 면제에 의존하지 말고 BLP 게시판에 보고하는 것을 고려하십시오.
(내꺼 강조) 나중에 같은 섹션에서:의심스러울 때는 되돌리지 마십시오.
대신 분쟁 해결에 참여하고 특히 편집 전쟁 및 3RR 알림판과 같은 관련 알림판에서 도움을 요청하십시오.
물론 당신이 알고 있었던 그 선에 대한 이전의 논쟁을 볼 때, 당신은 당신의 역전이 BLP에 해당될 것인가에 대한 논란이 있을 것이라는 것을 알고 있었고, BLP/N에 대한 논의가 이미 진행되고 있는 것을 볼 때, 당신의 역전은 불필요했다.아니, 그건 안 살 거야2018년 10월 25일 (UTC) 15:28, Writ Keeper♔[- 실제 인용문은
3역전 규칙이 그러한 제거에는 적용되지 않지만, 참고
로 시작한다.나는 3RR의 면제를 사용한 적이 없다. 왜냐하면 나는 단 한 번 되돌아온 적이 없기 때문이다.합의가 이뤄질 때까지 BLP 위반 자료라고 믿는 것을 성실하게 제거하기 위해서는 나의 복귀가 필요하다. -Obsidi (대화) 15:32, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[- 난 전문 지식이나 권위는 없지만, 오브시디, 나는 Writt Keeper에 매우 동의해.너는 (적어도 나에게) 아주 열성적으로 엉뚱한 나무를 짖고 있는 것 같다.건배.두무지드 (토크) 15:40, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- ...아니, 그렇지 않다.내가 인용한 위키백과:Edit_warring#면제는, REFRSE 보드의 이름을 제외하고, 몸 안의 어느 곳에서도 세 개의 되돌리기 규칙을 언급하지 않는다. 3RR은 내가 한 번도 꺼낸 적이 없기 때문에, 이것과 관련이 없다.이것이 BLP/N 토론의 목적인 BLP를 위반하는 물질이라는 것이 명확하지 않기 때문에 당신의 되돌리는 것은 필요하지 않다.BLP는 BLP 페이지에서 킬(읽기:편집-전쟁)할 수 있는 라이선스가 아니다.네가 선의로 돌아섰다는 걸 알아. 그게 이유 중 하나야. 난 지금 한 블록도 생각하지 않을 거야.하지만 그건 널 옳게 만들지 않아.2018년 10월 25일(UTC) 15:42, Writ Keeper⚇[
- 또한 이 포럼에 참여하기 전에 Obsidi는 페이지가 포함하고 있는 믿을 수 있는 출처 진술을 실제로 반박하는 믿을 만한 출처를 하나 또는 두 개 제공하라는 요청을 받았다는 것도 주목할 필요가 있다.그들은 이 주제와 관련이 있는 80여 개의 제목 리스트를 제공함으로써 응답했다. 이 주제는 모두 유료화 뒤에 있기 때문에 범위를 좁힐 수 없다고 주장하였다.사이먼m223 (대화) 15:45, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 포럼 쇼핑이 아니라 행동을 논의하기 위해 온 것이지, 내용을 추가해야 할지 말아야 할지 고민하기 위해서 온 것이 아니다.BLP는 그 진술에 이의를 제기하는 사람들이 그 기사의 진술을 반박하기 위해 RS를 제공할 것을 요구하지 않는다.나는 내가 말할 수 있는 한 그 언어를 사용하는 RS는 없다고 말했다.MjolnirPants는 내가 그것에 대해 거짓말을 하고 있다고 말했다(특히 나는
Bull-matthe-sucking
shit을 인용한다).
그, 빌어먹을, 나니건들.
난 이 일을 단 한순간도 믿지 않는다.
- 나는 포럼 쇼핑이 아니라 행동을 논의하기 위해 온 것이지, 내용을 추가해야 할지 말아야 할지 고민하기 위해서 온 것이 아니다.BLP는 그 진술에 이의를 제기하는 사람들이 그 기사의 진술을 반박하기 위해 RS를 제공할 것을 요구하지 않는다.나는 내가 말할 수 있는 한 그 언어를 사용하는 RS는 없다고 말했다.MjolnirPants는 내가 그것에 대해 거짓말을 하고 있다고 말했다(특히 나는
- 선의의 회귀였을까?아니면 오브시디가 이전의 상호 작용에 대해 화가 났기 때문에 하원의원들을 따라다닌 것일까?그랜드팔라마 (대화) 15:55, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 "주위에서 의원들을 따라다니는" 것이 아니다. 나는 정기적으로 BLPN을 포함한 게시판을 본다.거기서 나는 이 논쟁이 일어나는 것을 처음 보았다.당신은 내가 이 내용을 편집한 모든 것이 원래 BLPN에서만 편집된 것임을 알게 될 것이다.참의원이 있든 없든 상관하지 않았다. -Obsidi (대화) 15:59, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 아마 그럴 겁니다만, 마일리지가 다를 겁니다.2018년 10월 25일 (UTC) 15:56, Writ Keeper[
- 실제 인용문은
- 그런 식으로는 안 된다.전쟁 정책 편집의 인용 방법
- 이전의 되돌리기는 BLP에 기초하지 않았다(또는 적어도 그것에 대한 주장이 명시적으로 제기되지 않았다), 나의 되돌리기는 처음으로 그리고 유일하게 명시적인 BLP 주장을 한 것이다. 그리고 그것은 내가 그 페이지에 했던 유일한 되돌리기다.그래서 나는 내가 전쟁을 편집했다고 믿지 않는다.그리고 나는 그것이 타당하다고 주장하는 국회의원의 주장이 불합리하다고 주장하는 것이 아니라, 합의에 의해 그가 옳다고 결정하게 될지도 모른다.하지만 그럴 때까지 BLP 자료를 선의로 제거했고, 합의로 타당성이 판단될 때까지 복원해서는 안 된다. -Obsidi (토크) 15:21, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이것을 선의의 보고로 보기 위해 애쓰고 있다.여러분은 몇 군데에서 의원들과 어울리고, 그의 토크 페이지에 징징거리는 불평을 쓰고, 그리고 나서 여러분이 편집해 본 적이 없는 페이지에 나타나는데, 그것은 며칠 전에 사소한 편집 불화의 일부분이다.그린맨스코가 준 충고를 진지하게 받아들여(배달된 방식이 마음에 들지 않았더라도) 메인스페이스 편집을 더 많이 하고 AN/I나 ARBCOM 앞이나 사람들을 데려오는 데 시간을 덜 써야 한다.그랜드팔라마(토크) 15:52, 2018년 10월 25일(UTC)[
- 이것은 명백히 Obsidi가 POV 기반 편집을 가리기 위해 BLP 면제를 사용하고 있는 내용 분쟁이었다.여기에 행동 문제가 있다면 그것은 므골니르팬츠가 아니라 그 행동에 있다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 15:53, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)또한 이것은 당신이 보고서를 작성하기 전에 사전 보고를 시도한 것으로 보인다.국회의원들은 14시 33분에 당신에게 이렇게 말했다.20분도 안 돼서 바로 다음 편집은 이겁니다.그 말은, 국회의원들이 당신의 거만한 태도를 멈추지 않는다면 AN/I로 가는 것을 고려하고 있다는 것을 읽은 후에 불평을 쓸 수 있는 시간이 기본적으로 충분했다는 것을 의미한다.WP:SOUP at Talk:밀로 이안노풀로스.솔직히 이것은 너무나 구체적으로 보복하는 것처럼 보여서 부메랑이 사상 최악의 생각은 아닐지도 모른다.사이먼m223 (대화) 15:57, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
친구야, 여기서 막대기를 던지는 것에 대해 얘기하고 싶은데...
우선 롤백에 대해 설명하겠다.난 그렇게 할 의도는 아니었어요.말 그대로 다른 것을 확인하고 때리려고 했는데 확인 대화(WHE THER THE BELLIT)가 없어서 통과했다.이제, 나는 오브시디의 편집을 되돌릴 모든 의도가 있었다. 왜냐하면 그것은 다소 신의가 없는 논쟁(아래 참조)에 바탕을 두고 있었기 때문이다. 그래서 나는 다시 롤백하거나 다시 롤백했다가 다시 되돌리는 대신에, 그냥 그것을 놔두고 대화를 하러 갔고, 거기서 갈등을 편집하고, 그리고 나서 지금 여러분이 보고 있는 것으로 나의 반응을 바꾸었다.
다음으로, 이것은 WP:CHYBLP의 명확한 사례다.오브시디는 출처[14], [15], [16] [17] [18] [19]에 대해 거짓말을 하고 있다.이들은 밀로가 신나치주의자와 백인우월주의자들에게 사상을 구걸했고, 밀로가 신나치주의자와 백인우월주의자의 행동에 관여한다는 점을 분명히 하고 있지만, 오브시디는 그가 신나치주의자와 백인우월주의자들과 "연관"한다고 주장할 뿐이라고 주장하고 있다.Obsidi는 그것을 WP의 구실로 사용했다.CRYBLP는 의견 일치를 거스르는 편집 의사를 밝힌 뒤 신속하게 편집에 나섰다.
그러나 그 특별한 문제는 잠시 제쳐두고, 나는 오브시디에 대해 몇 가지 말하고 싶다.
- 이 편집자는 널리 실추된 음모론을 믿는 사람들에게 공평하지 않기 때문에 "공모 이론"이라고 부르지 말자고 제안한 사람이다.
- 그는 또한 담배 피우는 남자(X-파일에서 나온 그 남자 기억나?)와 검은 옷을 입은 남자들의 음모론이 사실이라고 주장하려고 노력했는데, 이는 복스 기사에서 비꼬았기 때문이다.Obsidi는 또한 [20], [21], [22], [23]을 참조하여 이 기사를 편집하는 데 느렸다.이것은 멈춘 것 같지만, 여전히 익숙하지 않은 편집자의 그림을 그린다.자, 출처를 읽는 법.
- Obsidi는 또한 RfC를 시작했는데, RfC를 즉시 반대했는데, 다른 편집자들은 Obsidi가 실제로 어떤 것을 성취하기 보다는 주장을 펴려고 하는 것처럼 의심스럽게 보였다는 것을 알아차렸다.
- 이 또한 지난 8월 이후 나보다 위키커리어 전체(11년!)에서 기사 편집이 적은 바로 그 편집자다.올해 중에.그리고 8월 초순도 아니고 23일 정도.그리고 기사 공간을 편집하면, 그는 항상 우파 POV를 취한다 [24] [25].
나는 Obsidi가 WP라는 것을 제안하지 않는다.백과사전을 짓기 위해서가 아니라, 드라마와 WP를 자극하려는 그들의 욕구에 빠져들기 위해 여기에 있는 것이다.다양한 우파적 대의명분을 옹호한다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:58, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- 내가 본 바로는, 오브시디는 정말로 문제가 많은 편집자인데, 만약 그가 현재의 과정을 계속한다면 아마도 어떤 종류의 주제 금지 조치를 받게 될 것이다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 16:28, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 근데 무슨 주제야?그리고 주제 금지령에도 불구하고, 만약 그들이 실무에서 한번도 사용하지 않은 정책과 그들이 읽는 방법을 모르는 합의에 관한 드라마를 계속해서 만들어 낸다면, 그것이 어떻게 도움이 될까?나는 보통 주제 금지를 블록으로 대체하는 것에 전적으로 찬성하지만, 이 경우 WP의 최선의 이익은 단지 이 남자를 차단하고 그것을 끝내는 것이라고 생각한다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:31, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- 들었어, 그래서 내가 주제를 언급하지 않은 거야.만약 주제 금지가 그의 모든 혼란을 다룰 수 없다면, DE, POV 푸싱, TE 등을 위한 변명이 필요하다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 16:39, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 의견 일치는 없어, 여기.ᛗᛁᛚᚾᚱᚱᚱantsants팬츠 다 말해줘 2018년 10월 25일 16:42, 25 (UTC)[
- 들었어, 그래서 내가 주제를 언급하지 않은 거야.만약 주제 금지가 그의 모든 혼란을 다룰 수 없다면, DE, POV 푸싱, TE 등을 위한 변명이 필요하다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 16:39, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 근데 무슨 주제야?그리고 주제 금지령에도 불구하고, 만약 그들이 실무에서 한번도 사용하지 않은 정책과 그들이 읽는 방법을 모르는 합의에 관한 드라마를 계속해서 만들어 낸다면, 그것이 어떻게 도움이 될까?나는 보통 주제 금지를 블록으로 대체하는 것에 전적으로 찬성하지만, 이 경우 WP의 최선의 이익은 단지 이 남자를 차단하고 그것을 끝내는 것이라고 생각한다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:31, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- 나는 정보원의 말에 대해 거짓말을 하는 것이 아니다.어느 소식통도 밀로가 신나치주의자와 백인우월주의자들로부터 영감을 받았다고 말하지 않는다. (가서 그들을 보라!)그래, 그는 아이디어를 구했고 그들에게 질문을 했지만, 나는 그것이 그가 아이디어로부터 영감을 받았다는 것을 의미한다고 믿지 않는다.누군가가 신나치주의자들에게 영감을 받았다고 말하는 것은, 단지 그들의 생각을 물어본 사람에 대해 쓴 글에 대해 반대하는 끔찍한 주장이다.나는 의견 일치를 거스르는 편집은 하지 않았고, 이 주제에 대해서는 아직 의견이 일치되지 않았다.
- 의원들이 제기한 다른 문제에 대응하려면:
- 나는 NPOV 정책을 강하게 믿는다.그런 증거가 있다고 믿는 것이 변두리가 아니라면 우리가 어떤 말을 해서는 안 된다는 것은 (그 신념에 대한 믿을 만한 증거가 없다고 말하는) 음모론이다.반면에 소수의 견해는 존중되어야 한다.이것이 NPOV 정책이고 내가 주장해온 모든 것이다.
- 내가 주장했던 것은 음모론이 아니라 '국가정책을 몰래 조작하거나 지휘하는 정부·군 간부'가 있다는 것이다.그래서 나는 이 뉴욕 타임즈 기사가 그 증거를 제공했다고 믿는다.이는 힐에서 하원 다수당 대표가 공개적으로 밝힌 견해와 같다[26].나는 이것이 터무니없는 견해라고 믿지 않는다.
- 문장이 제거된 후 RfC를 시작했는데, 내가 이의를 제기한 후 다시 기사에 실리게 되었다.나는 그 문장이 삭제되어야 하는지에 대한 합의를 도출하기 위해 RfC를 시작했다. (그것에 대해 많은 사람들이 나와 동의하였다.)아마도 나는 RfC를 표현해서 내가 제거에 반대하기보다는 문장을 유지하는 것을 지지하고 있었어야 했지만, 그 차이는 단지 논점을 만드는 것이 아니다.
- 나는 2,576개의 편집본을 가지고 있는데, 그 대부분은 WP나 토크 네임스페이스에 있다. 왜냐하면 나는 보통 변경사항에 대해 토론하는 것을 좋아하고 다른 사람들이 기사에 실제로 추가하도록 하기 때문이다.나는 WP 프로세스가 무너지고 WP의 정책이 시행되지 않는다고 생각할 때에만 관여한다.내 요점은 관점을 옹호하는 것이 아니라 WP 정책을 옹호하는 것이다.내가 편집한 내용을 돌이켜보면, 내가 정책적으로 문제가 있다고 생각하지 않는 한 내가 관여하는 일이 거의 없다는 것을 알 수 있을 것이다.나는 WP 정책들에 관심이 있고 그것들이 정확하게 시행되고 있다.그게 내가 여기 있는 이유야.
- 내가 우파인가?그렇다, 하지만 그렇다고 해서 내가 WP의 NPOV와 다른 정책들을 위반하기 위해 여기 있는 것은 아니다.내가 편집한 거의 모든 것은 그러한 정책들이 위반되고 있다고 생각될 때 옹호하는 것이다.
- 이 한 가지 주제(밀로 페이지)에만 초점을 두고 시작했는데, BLP 정책 위반으로 본 내용이었다.하지만 우리가 그것을 넘어 행동의 더 광범위한 질문으로 넘어가려면, 나는 국회의원의 믿을 수 없을 정도로 미개한 행동을 제기하고 싶다.바로 이 경우에 그는 나를 빌어먹을
놈
이라고 비난했다.
그, 빌어먹을, 나니건들.
[27] 또는 그가 내게꺼져
라고 했을 때 다른 사람들이그냥
투덜거렸다고 말했을 때[28]그러나 이것은 고립된 예가 아니다.그의 토크 페이지 편집 내용을 다시 살펴보면, 그들은 그가 항상 사람들에게 믿을 수 없을 정도로 무례한 말을 하는 것으로 가득 차 있다. -Obsidi (토크) 16:36, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- Obsidi 편집의 40%는 WP:space이고, 나머지 40%는 페이지를 말하는 것이다.TP 편집 횟수가 많으면 대개 토론에 대한 열의가 강하다는 것을 나타내지만, 거의 11년 재임 기간 동안 184건의 기사를 편집한 결과 긍정적이지 않다.-——SerialNumber54129 16:36, 2018년 10월 25일(UTC)[
- WP별 서핑 블록 지원:NOTHEREERE는, 위에서 내가 준 증거에 근거하여, 오브시디가 내가 위에서 말한 반박에 대한 그의 답변에서, 그들이 분명히 말하는 것을 아직도 출처들이 말하지 않는다고 주장하고 있다는 사실과 결합했다; 이것은 심각한 능력 부족이거나 심각한 가식이다.ᛗᛁᛚᚾᚱᚱᚱantsants팬츠 다 말해줘 2018년 10월 25일 16:42, 25 (UTC)[
- 이것이 처음이 아니기 때문에 지지의 막힘이 크다.Obsidi도 똑같이 했다. - 건방진 대화 주장, WP:CHYBLP, 그리고 터커 칼슨에 대한 느린 편집 전쟁, 그리고 백인 집단학살 음모론에 대한 데일리 콜러의 옹호.[30] [31][32][33][34] 사이먼m223 (대화) 16:43, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
나는 오직 WP 과정이 무너지고 WP의 정책이 시행되지 않는다고 생각할 때에만 관여한다.
- 이것은 마치 오브시디가 백과사전을 짓기 위해서가 아니라 관점을 밀어붙이기 위해 여기에 온 것처럼 들린다.아마도 그 사용자는 논란의 여지가 없는 주제에 관여하도록 노력해야 할 것이다.나는 현재 변명의 차단을 지지하지는 않지만, 오브시디의 행동이 변하지 않는다면 곧 하나가 올 것 같다는 것에 동의한다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 16:45, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[- 나는 양당에 대한 주제 금지를 제안한다.그냥 오브시디?인데버 블록은 좀 극단적이다.Hdjensofjfnen (셀프, 연결될 수 있을까?또는 송어 날 송어 줘.) 2018년 10월 25일(UTC) 16:47[
- 이 시점에서 위키피디아를 너무 오랫동안 교란시킨 지속적인 DE, POV-pushing, TE, NOTHERE 행동에 대한 서약 블록을 지원한다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 16:48, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이용자를 무기한 차단했다.--Bb23 (대화) 16:53, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
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MjolnirPants(및 직장 내 하원의원)는 노골적인 인종차별을 다룰 때 동료 편집자들을 존중하고 미사여구를 언급하기로 합의했으며, 폭력 위협을 시사하는 추가 논평은 즉각 차단될 것이라고 경고했다. 덧붙여, 나는 이것이 MjolnirPants에게 다른 편집자들을 다루면서 특정한 완곡어법을 사용하지 말라는 보다 구체적인 경고와 함께 이전에 종결되었다는 점에 주목한다.그 근접성은 되돌렸다: 대체로 그러한 경고가 적절하다는 일반적인 공감대가 결여되어 있으며, 이 논의의 몇몇 참가자는 그러한 경고에 구체적으로 반대해 왔으며, 다른 참가자는 MjolnirPants의 언어선택이 불쾌하고 파괴적이라는 것을 발견했다고 밝혔다. "젠장" 문제는 이 실타래에서 해결되지 않을 것이다.여러분, 여러분이 어떤 언어를 사용하기로 결정하든, 여러분의 동료 편집자들을 존경하십시오.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 18:51, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
NAC가 끝난 후 여기에 코멘트를 해야 한다.나는 오브시디의 므졸니르팬츠가 비도덕적이라는 불평에 전혀 관심을 두지 않는 것을 보고 놀랐다.정기적으로 코멘트를 하고 요약을 편집하는 걸 보면 정말 대단해. "황소 개자식". 그, 빌어먹을, 나니건들. 난 단 1초도 안 믿어, 꺼져, 이 위선적인 버터, 빌어먹을 개소리, 꺼져, 꺼져, 그리고 돌아오지 마, 그 개자식, 개자식 제거. 개소리랑 템플릿은 집어치워 정말이야. 그리고 다시는 내 페이지에 올리지 마. 만약 네가 그것에 동의하지 않는다면, 너는 가서 네가 숭배하는 어떤 신에게나 우리가 직접 만나지 않는 신에게 기도해야 해.ScienceApe는 단지 무기한으로 차단되었고 비슷한 논평을 위해 그의 토크 페이지 접속이 삭제되었다.그래서 당신은 MjolnirPants에게 WP를 준수하지 않아도 되는 특별한 특권을 부여하고 있는가?CIV를 눈감아 주는가?@Bbb23:? --Pudeo (대화) 20:39, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 음, 그게 이 실의 목적이 아니었어.이는 기사의 토크페이지에서 상당한 지지를 얻고 있는 한두 개의 편집에 대해 하원의원들이 곤경에 처하게 하기 위해 재빨리 날치기된 실타래였고, 일부 추가 혐의만 부과한 OP측의 장기간의 혼란과 POV 밀기 및 전쟁터화의 일부였다.만약 여러분이 새 실을 열고, 국회의원에다가 불친절하기 위한 사례를 제시하기를 원한다면, 여러분은 환영할 것이다.나는 개인적으로 그렇게 멀리 가지 않을 것이라고 생각하지만, 그것은 단지 내 의견일 뿐이다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 20:57, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 부적절한 지적은 고소장의 일부였지만 고소인은 부메랑을 맞았다.그러한 논평은 위키피디아에 건설적인 것을 더하지 않고, 다른 편집자들의 기분을 상하게 하며, 작가를 하층민 바보처럼 보이게 만든다.그들을 막는 게 좋을 거야.레거시pac (대화) 21:02, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 그들은 원래 불평의 일부가 아니었어.소프트라벤더 (대화) 21:05, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)"내가 뭘 할지 알아! 나는 누군가가 느끼는 불친절함에 대해 이름을 부르며 나의 불화를 표현하겠어! 아마 레거시pac일 거야, 위에 코멘트를 쓰기 전에.
- 진짜야, 가서 편집한 내용 좀 봐모든 경우에 있어서, 어떤 건방진 유치함을 다루는 것은 나였다.내가 절대 짜게 들리지 않을 거라고 기대한다면, 넌 엉뚱한 기대를 하고 있는 거야.그들의 좌절에 굴복하여 위에서 말한 그 어떤 것보다 더 심한 인신공격으로 질타한 편집자(힌트 힌트)가 적어도 한 명은 생각날 수 있는데, 내가 진정으로 그것을 용서하는 이유는, 누가 신경이나 쓸까?
- P.S. 그 마지막 차이점은 "홀로코스트는 정말 나쁜 것이었다"라는 주장을 언급한 나였다.그리고 나는 내가 말한 것을 100% 고수한다.만약 이 글을 읽는 누군가가 나를 직접 만나 홀로코스트가 좋은 것이라고 주장한다면, 나는 너를 일평생 때려주거나, 아니면 노력하다가 죽을 가능성이 매우 높다.인종차별과 대량학살은 나에게 다소 아픈 부분이다.ᛗᛁᛚᚾᚱᚱᚱantsants팬츠 다 말해줘. 21:10, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 너에게 어떤 이름도 부르지 않고, 내가 가르치는 아이들에게 하는 것과 똑같은 충고를 했다. 낮은 수업으로 말하는 것은 너를 낮은 계급으로 보이게 한다.사람들은 당신이 공손하게 말을 하거나 타이핑을 하면 당신을 더 심각하게 받아들인다.레거시pac (대화) 21:54, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 너는 나를 이름을 불렀고, 단지 그것을 의견으로 간주하기 위해 조심했을 뿐인데, 많은 사람들은 그것을 모욕이 아닌 것으로 조심스럽게 표현한다고 착각하곤 한다.그것이 의견이라고 해서 모욕적이지 않다는 뜻은 아니다.사람들을 모욕하는 것을 피하기 위해 당신이 해야 할 일은 그들이 어떤 용어로도 "하류층 바보"라고 말하지 않는 것이다.당신은 그들이 어떤 어리석음을 저질렀다고 말할 수도 있고, 그들의 논평은 계급이 부족하다고 말할 수도 있다.그러나 "나는 네가 하층민 바보라고 생각한다"는 말은 "너는 하층민 바보"라는 말보다 더 공손하지 않다.
- 또한, 충고로서, 정말 형편없는 충고(음, 아마도 어린아이로서는 그렇게 많지 않겠지만, 확실히 어른으로서는)이니, 내가 받아들이지 않는다면 용서해 줘.아마도 당신이 어린이용어 대신에 어른용어로 생각하려고 노력한다면 당신은 더 좋은 충고를 생각해 낼 수 있을 것이다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it.22:01, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 오 로스.아콘 (대화) 21:19, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- @MPants at work: "어떤 가식적인 유치함으로 대함"은 변명의 여지가 없다.그런 언어는 결코 도움이 되지 않으며, 여기에 설 자리가 없어야 한다.폴 아우구스트 인터뷰 21:27, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 찬성. 휘발유를 뿌려서 화재와 싸우지는 않겠지? 안쉬66 21:32, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 나는 너에게 어떤 이름도 부르지 않고, 내가 가르치는 아이들에게 하는 것과 똑같은 충고를 했다. 낮은 수업으로 말하는 것은 너를 낮은 계급으로 보이게 한다.사람들은 당신이 공손하게 말을 하거나 타이핑을 하면 당신을 더 심각하게 받아들인다.레거시pac (대화) 21:54, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 인용된 몇 마디 단어만이 아니라, 전체 글과 실을 보고, 어조와 장소와 상황을 파악하며, 자신의 한 토픽페이지에서 그러한 반박은 위키피디아에서 그러한 상황에서, 심지어 매우 존경 받는 많은 관리자들과 심지어 중재자들에게도 동등하다는 것을 이해하십시오.소프트라벤더 (대화) 21:37, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- @소프트라벤더: "코스의 파"가 되는 것은 도움이 되지 않는다.폴 아우구스트 인터뷰 21:39, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 아마도 그렇지 않을 것이다, 그러나 그것은 표준이고 따라서 제재할 수 없다.BS를 다룰 때 자신의 토크를 욕하는 것은 제재할 수 없다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 21:44, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 제재가 되든 안 되든 수치스럽다는 겁니다.폴 아우구스트 인터뷰 21:50, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 모든 것이 같다면, 만약 나의 토크 페이지에 있는 나의 염치가 다른 편집자들이 내가 응답했던 것과 같은 편집본을 올리지 않도록 부추긴다면, 그 미션은 완수되었다.나의 큰 빨간색 편집 공지를 적어라.나는 누가 누구에게 더 비열하게 굴고 있는지 따지러 온 것이 아니며, 모욕당하거나 어떤 무례함을 받는 것에 대한 나의 평소의 대응은 그것을 무시하거나 아니면 그것을 무시하고 넘어가려는 것이다.나는 더 많은 편집자들이 나와 같아야 한다고 겸손하게 제안하고 싶다.ᛗᛁᛚᚾᚱᚱᚱantsants팬츠 다 말해줘. 21:55, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 제재가 되든 안 되든 수치스럽다는 겁니다.폴 아우구스트 인터뷰 21:50, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 아마도 그렇지 않을 것이다, 그러나 그것은 표준이고 따라서 제재할 수 없다.BS를 다룰 때 자신의 토크를 욕하는 것은 제재할 수 없다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 21:44, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- @소프트라벤더: "코스의 파"가 되는 것은 도움이 되지 않는다.폴 아우구스트 인터뷰 21:39, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 인용된 몇 마디 단어만이 아니라, 전체 글과 실을 보고, 어조와 장소와 상황을 파악하며, 자신의 한 토픽페이지에서 그러한 반박은 위키피디아에서 그러한 상황에서, 심지어 매우 존경 받는 많은 관리자들과 심지어 중재자들에게도 동등하다는 것을 이해하십시오.소프트라벤더 (대화) 21:37, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 참고: Bb23은 ping 알림을 받지 않는다(그는 ping 알림을 껐다).그 문제는 파괴적인 정당이 봉쇄됨으로써 해결되었다.그래서 이 실의 끝.다른 사람이 MPant에 대한 다른 스레드를 열려면 별도의 스레드를 만드십시오.그의 자신의 토크 페이지(그리고 끝없는 밀로 실에 관한 커플)를 통해, 그의 지지없는 막힘 없는 편집자와의 커뮤니케이션은 특히 어조와 상황, 맥락과 장소의 측면에서 어떠한 설득력도 얻지 못할 것이다.나는 누군가가 실제로 제재할 수 있는 증거를 가지고 새롭고 분리된 실을 열고 싶어하지 않는 한 이 문제를 그만둘 것을 제안한다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 21:24, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 첫 번째 포스트는 나의 "사례"이다.제목이 두 개든 세 개든 나는 상관없다.
=
-의미.그리고 내 메시지에 자세히 나와 있는 대부분의 인신공격은 오브시디안을 향한 것이 아니라, 내가 포함시킨 디프에서 "젠장 꺼지라"는 말을 들은 관리 Northama1000처럼 선명한 편집자들이다[35].그리고 놀라운 것은 이러한 차이점들이 9월부터 시작된다는 것이다. --Pudeo (토크) 21:34, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 첫 번째 포스트는 나의 "사례"이다.제목이 두 개든 세 개든 나는 상관없다.
- 만약 첫 번째 포스트가 너의 "사례"라면, 나는 부적절한 장소 때문에 해고할 것이다.두무지드 (대화) 21:36, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 무엇에 근거하여?비관리자 클로즈도 되돌릴 수 있었을 텐데.또한 ANI 스레드는 ArbCom 요청처럼 공식화될 필요가 없다.난치성은 만성적이고 난치성이며, 따라서 이 게시판의 범위 안에 있으며, 위의 실에도 언급되어 있다. --Pudeo (talk) 21:41, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 왜냐하면 이것은 물론 사건이 아니기 때문이다.이것은 당신이 나의 기여를 가로지르는 것이고, 체리가 내가 고통스러워하고 있는 누군가에게 짜증이 났던 때를 골라내는 것이다. 왜냐하면 당신은 나를 좋아하지 않기 때문이다. (자유주의적인 정치적 견해를 가진 편집자들의 의견은 비밀이 아니다, 친구.나는 9월 1일부터 1,882건의 편집을 했다는 것을 더 주의할 것이다.네가 말했듯이, 이것은 단지 그 이후 나의 비활성에 불과하다면, 그것은 내 편집의 0.425%를 나타낸다. 내 태도가 시간이 지남에 따라 일정하게 유지되었다고 가정한다(그것은 아니다: 나는 지난 몇 달 동안 평소보다 훨씬 더 많은 POV 전사들을 상대해 왔다).ᛗᛁᛚᚾᚱᚱᚱantsants팬츠 다 말해줘. 21:48, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 무엇에 근거하여?비관리자 클로즈도 되돌릴 수 있었을 텐데.또한 ANI 스레드는 ArbCom 요청처럼 공식화될 필요가 없다.난치성은 만성적이고 난치성이며, 따라서 이 게시판의 범위 안에 있으며, 위의 실에도 언급되어 있다. --Pudeo (talk) 21:41, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- Northama1000에 대한 메시지는 일부 사람들을 화나게 하는 것으로 알려진 템플리트에 대한 응답이었다.◆벨레자솔로 21:38, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC) 토론[
- 사실 북미1000은 내가 다른 관리자와 러닝 농담에 참여했기 때문에 나를 템플리트로 만들고 나를 되돌렸다.아이러니하게도 나와 다른 사람들(둘이 더 있었다)은 주례를 놀리고 있었다.ᛗᛁᛚᚾᚱᚱᚱants팬츠 다 말해줘. 21:42, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 기억한다.잠재적으로 시스템을 작동시킬 수 있는 잠재적인 전술일 가능성이 있다는 생각이 들었다.그러면 사용자는 이론적으로 의심스러운 행동을 계속 할 수 있고, 만약 내가 그것에 대해 경고한다면, 그들은 내가 그들의 토크 페이지에 게시하는 것을 원하지 않는다고 말할 수 있을 것이다.물론 무례한 답변이 단순히 성난 대꾸일 뿐이지, 이런 일은 아닐지도 모른다.위 목록과 유사한 유형의 게시물이 이 diff에 사용자에 의해 게시되었다.적어도 MjolnirPants는 그러한 진술이 미개하다는 개념을 고려할 수 있고, 선의의 추정에 역행할 수 있기를 바란다.여기저기 뛰어다니며 다양한 사용자들에게 항상 "젠장 꺼"라고 말하는 것은 꽤 2학년이다.북미1000 21:52, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이렇게 말할 것이다:나는 앞으로 (여러 편집자들이 거만한 주례를 비웃는 것에 대해 단지 거만한 주례에 대응하여 단지 거만한 주례에 종사했다는 사실을 전혀 고려하지 않고) 농담에 참여하여 나를 골탕먹이는 편집자의 기분을 고려하지 않을 것 같다.나는 누군가를 되돌려서 그들이 달리는 농담에 참여하도록 만드는 것이 얼마나 무의미한지 훨씬 더 많이 생각해 볼 것이다.그리고 나는 분노에 찬 반격으로 그들을 되돌릴 가능성이 매우 높다(글쎄, 콧방귀 뀌는 말, 정말로, 그러나 당신은 어떤 평범한 텍스트로 올바른 어조를 읽지 않은 것에 대해 비난받을 수는 없다.미안, 그건 내 본성이야.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it.22시 7분, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 만약 첫 번째 포스트가 너의 "사례"라면, 나는 부적절한 장소 때문에 해고할 것이다.두무지드 (대화) 21:36, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 푸도를 위한 부메랑?원래 실의 OP는 하원의원들을 공격하고 경박한 ANI 실을 그에게 개방하는 오랜 악지의 편집자들 중 가장 최근의 것이었다; 실이 이미 닫힌 후에 다시 여는 것은 기껏해야 상당히 파괴적인 일이다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 22:31, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 확실히 부메랑은 아니다.국회의원들이 자신의 토크 페이지에 올린 논평은 제재할 수는 없겠지만, 권장되어서는 안 된다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:36, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 메. 나 핑 당했어.내가 MJ를 사랑하는 거 알지? 하지만 1.7단계를 줄이면 아무것도 깨지지 않을 거야.네가 맞힐 수도 있지만, 그렇지 않을 수도 있고, 네가 틀렸던 누군가는 위키피디아가 서로 바보처럼 구는 곳이라는 인상을 받을 수도 있어. 그러니 제발 페이스북으로 돌아가줘.교수형 유머는 텍스트로는 잘 번역되지 않고, 다른 하사관들과 함께 똥을 쏘는 얼어붙은 진흙탕 속에 있는 것도 아니다. 내가 그 순간을 즐기고 싫어할 만큼 말이다.적어도 이런 실타래는 피할 수 있을 것이고, 조직문화에 잘 통합되지 않은 사용자들이 같은 일로 차단된 지 오래되지 않았을 것이라고 생각한다면, 나는 당신이 스스로에게 장난을 치는 것이라고 생각한다.GMGtalk 22:36, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집)"
그리고 조직문화에 그다지
잘통합
되지 않은사용자들이 같은 일로 차단
된 지오래되지 않았을 것이라고
생각한다면, 나는당신이 스스로
를 속이고있다고 생각한다."
내 생각에 네가 정곡을 찌른 것 같아, GMG. 그리고 위의 권력-엔위키의 발언을 들춰내기 위해, 이 논평들은 우리의 정책과 우리 노동계의 대다수 구성원들의 일치된 의견 하에서 매우 명백하게 제재될 수 있다; 만약 "젠가는 내가 길에서 너를 발견하지 않기를 바라는 것이 좋을 것"이 WP를 위반하는 것이 아니라면:Civility, 나는 어떤 논평이 될 것인지, 그리고 우리가 왜 굳이 시작할 때 시민성 정책을 갖기를 원하는지 이해할 수 없다.확실히 그러한 논평을 한 편집자조차도, 능력이 있다고 하더라도, 편집 버튼을 누르기 전에, 바라건대, 적어도 한번은, 그러한 위협과 억압이 부적절하다는 것을 인식할 것이다.만약 편집자가 사실 이후에 그러한 이슈들을 인정할 수조차 없다면, WP가 있다.IDHT 및 기본 WP:결국 지역사회가 해결해야 할 CIR 문제.
- (갈등 편집)"
- 현재 그렇게 오랜 시간이 걸리는 이유는 1) GMG가 지적하듯이 장기기여자의 용인되는 것(소요 내지 무의미)과 즉시 새로운 편집자를 외설하게 되는 것 사이의 엄청난 차이, 그리고 2) 이 단일 게시판이 그러한 행동에 대한 대다수의 불평에 대응하고 있다는 사실, 그리고 거기에는 다음과 같은 두 가지가 있다.이런 성질을 억제하기 위한 어떤 노력에도 대항하기 위해 거의 혹은 그보다 적은 진을 치고 있는 편집자들 집단. 그들이 적극적으로 결탁해서가 아니라 단지 그들이 항상 상황에 반응하고 "본대로 불러야 한다"는 이념적 믿음을 공유하기 때문에.성욕적이고 감정적인 상태가 그들의 논평에 아무런 제약 없이 그들을 자극한다.이들 편집자는 WP의 내부화를 단호히 거부한다.NOTFREESPEECH는 유사한 관점과 목적을 가진 편집자들에게 군림하려는 어떠한 노력도 '부정적인 허튼소리' 또는 '편집자들을 쉽게 화나게 하는 손으로 짜는 일'이라고 비난한다."하지만 저 녀석은 정말 빌어먹을 놈이었으니까 WP가 뭐라고 하던 간에 그렇게 불러도 완벽하게 괜찮다.NPA는 "내가 누군가를 찾아서 그들이 한 말을 후회하게 만들 것이라고 말할 때, 아무도 진짜 위협이라고 믿지 않는다"고 주장한다.
- 이러한 정서는 단순히 정책과 공동체의 합의라는 노골적인 방향과 상충되는 것이 아니라, 그러한 언급이 우리의 확립된 과정을 부식시키고, 우리가 여기서 해야 할 일을 해치고(그리고 모든 사람에게 그렇게 많은 부담을 주는 일을) 하는 무진장 많은 이유들에 대한 일종의 의도적인 무지를 보여준다.ne included), 경험 많은 기고자들을 프로젝트에서 몰아내고 새로운 기고자들을 그들의 자리를 빼앗는 것을 막는다(편집자 보유 문제에 대한 거부), 프로젝트에 대한 책임감을 조성하고, 솔직히 말해서 우리의 성숙도와 신뢰성에 대한 평판을 떨어뜨려 재고를 당혹스럽게 한다.자제력이 부족한 우리 중 한 명그것은 프로젝트에서 일어날 수 있는 가능한 결과들 중 몇 가지를 언급하는 것이다; 억제되지 않은 적대감이 너무 오랫동안 대중 담론의 일부가 되었을 때 무슨 일이 일어나는지 더 넓은 결과를 보기 위해서는 이번 주 뉴스의 헤드라인만 보면 된다.
- 여기에 나타날 때마다 그런 발언을 변명하는 (매우 작지만 매우 목소리가 큰) 소수민족의 대부분은 (그들이 '바른' 사람들로부터 온다고 가정한다면) 최근에 비슷한 실의 대상이 되어 온, 아마도 곧 다시 (그곳에서 그들을 설득하는 행운을 빌지만) 같은 핫헤드들이 인식될 만한 다른 사람들로부터 온 사람들이다.s 여기에 오게 된 그들 자신의 성향과 WP에 대한 그들의 관점 사이의 연결점:NOTFREESPEECH/WP:여기서 다른 사람을 방어할 때 NPA).하지만, "대단한 선"이 자신의 생각을 말할 수 있는 제한 없는 능력을 요구하기 때문에, 순전히 철학적인 이유로 프로젝트에서 폭력적이거나 분노에 찬 미사여구에 대한 어떤 견제에 반대만 하는 그 가상의 편집자라도, 나는 다음과 같이 말하고 싶다.나는 당신의 믿음을 존중하고 그것에 어떤 장점이 있다고 믿지만, 당신은 이 공동체가 채택한 기준에 부합하기 위해 절대주의적인 관점을 누그러뜨리거나, 아니면 시간을 자원할 다른 곳을 찾아야 할 것이다. 왜냐하면 우리는 오래 전에 (그리고 여기 선 대부분의 편집자들은 계속해서) 당신의 신념이 존재한다고 생각했기 때문이다.이런 작업 환경에서는 한계가 있을 것이다."
- 그리고 이것은 우리가 모두 자원 봉사자로 여기 있다고 해도 실수하지 말고 일하는 환경이다. 이것은 단지 취미를 위해 몇몇 사람들과 함께 모이는 것이 아니다. 그리고 우리의 개인적인 권리보다 더 중요한 것은 우리가 그들을 어떻게 생각하는지를 다른 사람들에게 알리는 것이다.그리고 나는 대부분의 편집자들이 그들의 직장 동료들에게 기회가 주어진다면 그들을 쫓아올 것이라고 말하는 것으로부터 벗어날 수 있을지 매우 의심스럽다.솔직히, 만약 당신이 누군가에게, 어디서든, 언제든지 그런 종류의 발언을 한다면, 나는 그것에 대해 대가를 치르길 바란다.그것은 직장에서든, 거리에서든, 페이스북에서든, 위키피디아에서든 어떤 상황에도 도움이 되지 않는다. 그것은 세상에 독설을 더해줄 뿐이다.어쨌든 이 커뮤니티에는 규칙이 있고, 우리는 최근 몇 년 동안 그러한 표준에 편집자를 붙들고(그리고 그러한 표준을 커뮤니티의 모든 구성원들에게 공평하게 적용) 나쁜 일을 해오고 있다.특히, 폭력의 어떠한 위협도(그 사람을 먼저 찾든 말든) 즉시 차단할 근거가 되어야 하며, 만약 그것이 한 번 이상 일어난다면 계속해야 한다.이 프로젝트에는 다른 어떤 행동 방침도 실행 불가능하고 지속가능하지 않다.제설 00:26, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 응. --Jayron32 12:23, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 이것은 우리가 모두 자원 봉사자로 여기 있다고 해도 실수하지 말고 일하는 환경이다. 이것은 단지 취미를 위해 몇몇 사람들과 함께 모이는 것이 아니다. 그리고 우리의 개인적인 권리보다 더 중요한 것은 우리가 그들을 어떻게 생각하는지를 다른 사람들에게 알리는 것이다.그리고 나는 대부분의 편집자들이 그들의 직장 동료들에게 기회가 주어진다면 그들을 쫓아올 것이라고 말하는 것으로부터 벗어날 수 있을지 매우 의심스럽다.솔직히, 만약 당신이 누군가에게, 어디서든, 언제든지 그런 종류의 발언을 한다면, 나는 그것에 대해 대가를 치르길 바란다.그것은 직장에서든, 거리에서든, 페이스북에서든, 위키피디아에서든 어떤 상황에도 도움이 되지 않는다. 그것은 세상에 독설을 더해줄 뿐이다.어쨌든 이 커뮤니티에는 규칙이 있고, 우리는 최근 몇 년 동안 그러한 표준에 편집자를 붙들고(그리고 그러한 표준을 커뮤니티의 모든 구성원들에게 공평하게 적용) 나쁜 일을 해오고 있다.특히, 폭력의 어떠한 위협도(그 사람을 먼저 찾든 말든) 즉시 차단할 근거가 되어야 하며, 만약 그것이 한 번 이상 일어난다면 계속해야 한다.이 프로젝트에는 다른 어떤 행동 방침도 실행 불가능하고 지속가능하지 않다.제설 00:26, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
이거 닫아도 돼?이건 바보같은 짓이야. --타라지(토크) 23:01, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 행정관들이 이런 물리적 폭력의 위협을 하고 있는 국회의원에 대해 제재를 가할 것을 촉구한다.다소 우스꽝스럽더라도 폭력 위협을 결코 묵과해서는 안 되며 제재를 가해야 한다.국회의원들이 일하는 것이 정당해 보이고 그들의 의견이 받아들일 수 없다는 것에 동의하지 않는 것을 고려하면, 내가 보는 유일한 선택은 72시간 블록이다.또 그런 일이 생기면 무기한 차단을 촉구한다.--MONGO (토크) 12:53, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 당신의 논평은 내가 처음 언급했을 때 그것들에 대해 잊어버렸기 때문에 나는 다시 폭력의 위협에 주의를 집중시켰다.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 2018년 10월 26일 12시 56분 (UTC)[
나는 Mpant의 행동을 살펴봐야 한다고 생각한다.이러한 의사소통의 방식은 다른 당사자들의 개인적인 실패가 무엇이든 도움이 되지 않는다.나는 또한 WP를 제안하는 것이 권선적이라고 생각한다.Pudeo의 BU메랑(부메랑 on Pudeo)은 그들이 이것이 오랫동안 지속된 행동이라는 것을 보여주었다(이들 중 일부는 9월에서 온 것이고 이것이 MPants/Obsidi 사물의 전유물이 아니라는 것을 분명히 보여준다).오해하지 마, 나는 전체 의원/오비디 사물에 대해 확신하지 못하지만(이 위에 있는 어떤 것도 읽지 못했는데 이미 더 깊이 파고들 필요가 없는 행동을 했다), 그러나 우리는 단지 다른 쪽이 아무것도 성취하지 않고 더 적대적인 편집 환경을 조성하기 때문에 파괴적이라고 해서 이러한 논평들을 용서해서는 안 된다(또한 마찬가지일 수 있다.편집자를 방해할 때 합리적으로 대처하여 상대방을 방해한다는 것을 보여주는 가장 좋은 방법이다.국회의원들이 계속해서 그들의 행동에 '정당한' 태도를 취하고 있다는 점을 감안할 때, 나는 국회의원에 대한 제재도 전적으로 지지할 것이다.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 2018년 10월 26일 12:53, (UTC)[
- 이것이 공개되었기 때문에, 나는 스노우가 위에서 떠들어대는 것은 나뿐만 아니라 많은 다른 편집자들에 대한 거짓말과 인신공격으로 가득 찬 무식하고, 오만하고, 무례한 것이라고 말하고 싶다.누군가가 나를 불친절하게 대하고 싶다면, 그건 괜찮지만, 여기 앉아서 그것에 대해 노골적인 위선을 행하지 마라.편집자가 노골적인 비도덕성을 가지고 있고, 지역 사회에서의 그들의 지위에 의존해서 그들을 변명하고, 모두 지역 사회에서의 지위가 비도덕적인 변명을 하는 편집자에 대해 불평하는 서비스였습니다.
- 내가 누군가를 추적하겠다고 협박했던 그 주장은 완전히 헛소리야.완전 헛소리야.난 그런 말을 한 적이 없어. 스노우는 내가 그랬다고 했을 때 거짓말을 하고 있어.
- 스노우는 또한 편집 요약에서 편집이 게시되기 1시간 전이라는 점을 제외하고 편집 요약에서 편집이 마감과 상충된다고 주장하면서 코멘트의 성격에 대해 거짓말을 한 것으로 보인다.그래서 스노우는 내가 그것을 다시 열지 않고는 대응할 수 없다는 것을 알고 비공개 논의를 더하기로 했다.
- "WP가 있다"는 주장은 다음과 같다.IDHT 및 기본 WP:지역사회에서 다뤄져야 할 CIR 문제는 사소한 미숙한 인신공격이다.내가 듣기를 거부한다고 주장하는 것은 순전히 의도적인 무지(나는 이 섹션이 가까워진 후 그의 토크 페이지에 있는 GMG의 글에 응답했고, 그가 말한 대부분의 것에 동의했다)이며, CIR 일은 단지 청소년일 뿐이다.
- 내 행동이 단지 친구들의 모임에 의해서만 용서된다는 주장은 그만큼 공허하다.나와 소프트라벤더는 ANI에서 거의 항상 동의하지 않았다.항상 그렇지는 않지만, 대부분의 경우.나와 벨레자솔로는 전에 한번도 교류한 적이 없다.나와 그란팔라마는 단 한번의 대화를 나누었고, GMG는 이 실타래 속에서 내가 가진 친구와 가장 가까운 것이지만, 그는 나에게 제트기를 식히라고 말했다.타라게와 히지리는 나를 지지하기 위해 무슨 말이든 한 사람과 좋은 관계를 맺고 있는 유일한 편집자인 것 같다.
- 그 코멘트의 나머지 부분은 그저 한결같다.공허한 미사여구, 나보다 스노우가 내 마음을 더 잘 알고 있다는 가정, 그리고 대머리 같은 부정직함.타라지는 정곡을 찔렀지만, 이 얘기가 나온 직후 누군가가 나에게 이름을 부르러 나타나자마자 누구라도 알아봤어야 했다.
- 관심 있으신 분:이것은 나를 짜게 만드는 그런 종류의 헛소리야.내가 지난 몇 달 동안 나에 대한 옹졸하고 철없는 거짓말들을 다루었는데, 내가 가끔 여과 없이 반응한다는 사실에 정말 충격을 받았다고?
- 무엇보다도 내가 견딜 수 없는 한 가지는 자질구레하고 무의미한 드라마다.그리고 그것이 바로 이 모든 실마리가, 오브시디의 첫 보고부터 푸도(이 싸움에서 그의 정치적 견해, 놀라움 외에는 개가 없는 사람)의 체리(chry)가 디프(diff)를 골라낸 것이다.그러니 내가 진정하길 바란다면 이 멍청한 실타래는 분명히 그렇게 할 방법이 아니야내 말은, 예수님 H.예수님, 정말로 누군가를 모욕하고 거짓말을 하고, 더 예의 바르게 굴도록 할 수 있다고 생각하십니까?그건 정말 말도 안 되는 무식한 짓이야.난 이미 GMG에게 내가 좀 더 냉정하게 굴겠다고 말했어.이 바보 같은 실마리를 계속하는 것은 거의 "반생산적"의 정의다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:16, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- 스노우는 MjolnirPants가 '
누군가를 추적하겠다고 위협
한 적이 없다'고 말한 적이 있다.내가 가장 가까이에서 볼 수 있는 것은 '젠장 내가 너를 길에서 발견하지 않기를 바래'
와 '그리고
나는우리
편집자들대부분
이 그들의전문직 생활에서 동료들에게 기회가 주어진다면 쫓아올 것이라고 말하는 것으로부터 벗어날
수있을지 매우
의심스럽다'
와 '어떤 폭력적인 위협
이라도 (당사자를 찾는 것을 조건부
로 하든간
에)이다.아들이 먼저든 아니든
간에) 동일하지 않은 '즉시 차단'
의근거가 되어야 한다
.내가 놓친 스노우의 다른 게시물이 있나, 아니면 스노우의 게시물이 수정되었나?닐 아인(토크) 15:27, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[- 넌 방금 네 질문에 대답했어.안 보이면 일부러 못 본다고 해서 토론 안 할 거니까 의미가 없다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:44, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- 스노우는 MjolnirPants가 '
- 지금쯤이면 누구나 다 알고 있겠지만, 관리자들은 사람들이 F-Bomb를 떨어뜨리는 것을 막는데 그다지 열심이지 않고 심지어 아주 긴 집단들까지도 마찬가지야. 인종차별과 반유대주의가 당신을 화나게 하는 것이라면, 축하해, 넌 개자식이 아니야.그것에 대해 왔다 갔다 하는 것은 무의미한 드라마야.하지만 말하자면, 국회의원들은, 이 ("우리가 직접 만나본 적이 없는 신에게 기도하라")는 직접적인 폭력의 위협이며, 나는 맥락이나 감정이나 그 밖의 어떤 것에 대해서도, 혹은 당신이 이런 식으로 읽히려고 의도했다고 생각하든 말든 상관하지 않는다, 만약 내가 다시 이런 글을 쓰는 것을 본다면, 나는 당신을 차단할 것이다, 그리고 그것을 위한 것이 될 것이다.꽤 긴 시간위키피디아에 이런 협박을 쓸 이유가 없다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 13:25, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 누군가가 그것을 꺼냈기 때문에: 아니, 나는 한 달 전에 쓰여진 논평 때문에 지금 막지는 않을 것이다.하지만 다시는 그러지 마.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 13:31, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
...이런 협박을 위키피디아에 쓸 이유가 없다.
당연하지, 하지만 내가 전에 말했듯이: 이것은 "유대인 대학살은 다시는 해서는 안 되는 정말 나쁜 일"이라는 말에 동의하지 않는 가상의 (진짜가 아닌) 편집자를 향한 것이었다.이제부터라도 혼자만 알고 있을 테지만, 나는 그 진술을 100% 고수한다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:36, 26 October 2018 (UTC)- 가만히 있어선 안 된다.너는 그것을 철회하고 네가 틀렸다는 것을 인정해야 한다."유대인 대학살은 다시는 해서는 안 되는 정말 나쁜 짓이었다"는 말에 동의하지 않는 진짜 편집자들이 있다.그들은 인종차별주의적인 바보들이지만, 그들을 "우리가 직접 만나지 않는 어떤 신에게라도 기도하라"고 협박하는 것은 그들의 손에 달려있다.정치적 목적을 촉진하기 위해 폭력을 옹호한 결과다.다시 가져가서 인종차별주의 멍청이들을 협박하기보다는 조롱하는 것으로 돌아가십시오. --Guy Macon (대화) 15:22, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 미안하지만, 나는 완전히 합리적이고 철저한 나치에 대한 미움을 숨긴 것에 대해 절대 사과하지 않을 거야.나는 "농담감을 한 두 단계 낮추어" 할 수 있고 심지어 "나치에 대한 너의 견해의 그 정도는 너 혼자만 알고 있어" 할 수 있지만, 나는 나치에 대해 논쟁하기보다는 냉담하게 받아들이는 것이 나쁜 일이라고는 결코 생각하지 않을 것이다.어림없는 소리예요.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:44, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- 가만히 있어선 안 된다.너는 그것을 철회하고 네가 틀렸다는 것을 인정해야 한다."유대인 대학살은 다시는 해서는 안 되는 정말 나쁜 짓이었다"는 말에 동의하지 않는 진짜 편집자들이 있다.그들은 인종차별주의적인 바보들이지만, 그들을 "우리가 직접 만나지 않는 어떤 신에게라도 기도하라"고 협박하는 것은 그들의 손에 달려있다.정치적 목적을 촉진하기 위해 폭력을 옹호한 결과다.다시 가져가서 인종차별주의 멍청이들을 협박하기보다는 조롱하는 것으로 돌아가십시오. --Guy Macon (대화) 15:22, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 누군가가 그것을 꺼냈기 때문에: 아니, 나는 한 달 전에 쓰여진 논평 때문에 지금 막지는 않을 것이다.하지만 다시는 그러지 마.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 13:31, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 푸도에게 이걸 제출해줘서 고맙다고 동의해.나는 국회의원들이 비현실적이라고 생각하는데, 이것은 위에서 완전히 무시된 심각한 문제였다.나는 그것이 다른 사람들과 나 자신을 향한 것을 본 적이 있다.그는 "거짓말이 될 수밖에 없는 만큼 굳이 무슨 말이라도 읽어야 할 필요는 없다"고 했다.나는 그에게 그만하라고 경고했다.그의 대답은 "물론이다. 헛소리 그만 쓰자마자."나는 하원의원들에 대한 제재를 지지한다.
- 나는 2007년부터 여기 와 있는 편집자인 오브시디가 국회의원을 상대로 소송을 제기한 지 2시간도 안 되어, 좋은 위치에 있고, 아무런 사전 차단도 받지 못한 채 무기한 봉쇄된 것도 마찬가지로 터무니없는 일이라고 생각한다.어떤 행동이 '장기적인 혼란'에 해당될 정도로 끔찍한 행동인지조차 알 수 없었고, 반복된 경고의 증거도 보지 못했다.
디프도 제공되지 않았다.내게는 이 AN/I 보드가 어떻게 기능하는지에 대한 매우 심각한 문제를 보여준다. - 나는 더 이상 편집자들이 선의의 가정을 받는 것을 보지 않는다.내가 보기에 그들은 규칙을 어겨서가 아니라 내용에 동의하지 않기 때문에 그것에 대해 불평하다가 탈락한, 비도덕적으로 학대받고 있는 것 같다.우리는 이 게시판에 더 많은 관리자와 중립적 편집자가 필요하다. 왜냐하면 이것은 최근 몇 년 사이에 정말로 통제 불능이 되었기 때문이다. --David Tornheim (대화) 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC) [개정 16:22, 2018년 10월 26일 (대화) --David Tornheim (대화) 16:31, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)]
나는 2007년부터 여기 와 있는 편집자인 오브시디가 국회의원을 상대로 소송을 제기한 지 2시간도 안 되어, 좋은 위치에 있고, 아무런 사전 차단도 받지 못한 채 무기한 봉쇄된 것도 마찬가지로 터무니없는 일이라고 생각한다.
어떤 행동이 '장기적인 혼란'에 해당될 정도로 끔찍한 행동인지조차 알 수 없었고, 반복된 경고의 증거도 보지 못했다.
디프도 제공되지 않았다.
보시다시피, 데이비드.그래서 내가 널 진지하게 받아들이지 않는 거야.- Obsidi의 문제는 이 페이지 위에 자세히 설명되어 있는데, 나는 실제로 당신이 결코 주어지지 않았다고 주장하는 20가지 다른 증거들을 주었다.
- 나머지는 다음과 같다.음, 넌 몇 주째 날 따라다니고 있잖아, 내가 퉁명스럽게 나한테 쓰레기 배급을 주는 페이지로 돌아가지 말라고 한 이후로 말이야. 결국 내가 그 페이지에서 문제가 아니라는 걸 알게 되려고 말이야.그동안 넌 내 골칫거리였고 BLP를 위반하는 음모론을 옹호하는 것과 같은 다소 우스꽝스러운 제안들을 지지해 왔어.여러분은 또한 BLP를 위반하는 음모론에 대한 지지(여러분들의 체리 따기 출처와 자기 자신을 반박하는 것으로 구성됨)가 내가 "멍청이"라고 묘사한 것이고, 거기서 내가 말한 것과 달리, 나는 결국 당신의 주장을 읽고 대응했다는 것을 알아차릴 수 있을 것이다.그러니 이제 우리는 당신이 나와 동의하지 않고 무지하다고 말하는 것 외에 다른 이유 없이 나타난 장소의 수에 이것을 더할 수 있다.나는 그 의견 차이를 뒷받침할 만한 것을 추측하지 않을 것이다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:18, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- MPants는 26개의 diff를 제공했다.사이먼m223은 5개의 디프트를 제공했다.다른 사람들은 사용자의 기여와 편집 이력에 대한 링크를 제공했는데, 이는 특히 이러한 기사/페이지/공지판을 편집하거나 보고 있는 모든 사람에게 명확한 패턴을 보여준다.사용자는 꽤 오랫동안 관찰할 수 있는 파괴적 패턴을 가지고 있었다.그리고 그의 토크 페이지에는 [36] -- 소프트라벤더 (대화) 16:23, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[ ]이라는 경고와 알림이 많이 있었다
- 알았어, 미안해.나는 그 차이점들을 보지 못했다.그것은 마치 긴 소리지르는 것처럼 보였다.나는 그 차이점을 볼 것이다.디프가 없다고 댓글을 달았다. --David Tornheim (토크) 16:31, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- MPants는 26개의 diff를 제공했다.사이먼m223은 5개의 디프트를 제공했다.다른 사람들은 사용자의 기여와 편집 이력에 대한 링크를 제공했는데, 이는 특히 이러한 기사/페이지/공지판을 편집하거나 보고 있는 모든 사람에게 명확한 패턴을 보여준다.사용자는 꽤 오랫동안 관찰할 수 있는 파괴적 패턴을 가지고 있었다.그리고 그의 토크 페이지에는 [36] -- 소프트라벤더 (대화) 16:23, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[ ]이라는 경고와 알림이 많이 있었다
이것 좀 끝내주겠나?
난 여기서 더 좋은 일이 있어. 그러니, 내가 이미 여러 번 거만한 편집자들과 더 예의 바르게 행동할 거라고 말했었다는 것을, 아니면 내가 처벌받아야 하고 어떻게 해야 한다고, 인정하지 않은 행정관이 와서, 한번 보고, 어느 쪽을 택할 수 있을까?고마워요.@Ivanvector:넌 이미 내게 충분히 분명히 말했어.그걸 마무리 짓고 내 토크 페이지에 공식 경고나 뭐 그런 걸 내려놓고 싶다면 괜찮아.네가 원하면 편집한 거 다시 보고 와도 돼, 난 상관없어이런 헛소리는 지긋지긋해.이런 멍청한 짓은 처음 시작부터 짜증나게 하는 거야ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:32, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- 만약 당신이 위에서 이미 말한 것(다시는 폭력의 위협을 사용하지 않을 것이라는 것)과는 별도로, 다른 편집자들과 친밀하다는 당신의 설명이 "젠장 꺼져"와 같은 단어들을 사용하지 않는 것을 포함한다면, 나는 중립적인 진술로 이것을 종결할 수 있다.그렇지 않으면, 네가 동의할 때까지 무한정 막을 수 있어.뭐라고 하지?루르데스 16:38, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나와 소프트라벤더는 여기서 완벽하게 일치한다(보통 ANI에서는 동의하지 않았다.하지만 날 차단하고 싶으면 지금 당장 가서 해, 그래야 우리가 적어도 그 멍청한 드라마들을 먼저 시작할 수 있어.나는 이미 예의 바르게 일하겠다고 말했다.내가 잘난 척하는 요구에도 굽실거릴 필요가 있다고 생각한다면...음, 그것에 대한 나의 반응이 어떤지 지금쯤 알 것 같은데.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:51, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- 만약 어떤 사용자도 누군가에게 꺼져라고 말하는 것이 허락되지 않는 것이 당신의 의견이라면, 정책과 다른 위반 없이 꺼져라고 말한 것으로 인해 차단된 몇 가지 예를 들어주십시오.If it is your opinion that you can impose different fuck off rules on ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants than the rules that apply to other editors, please prepare yourself for a shitstorm as multiple Wikipedia complain about your behavior.I agree that ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants should greatly reduce this behavior, but disagree with you threatening a block. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:05, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
닫기 동작
자, 이제 여러 명의 관리자들이 이 사건을 종결짓고 종결짓기 위해 싸우고 있어. 그리고 이건 필요 이상으로 볼거리가 될 거야.@Bishonen, Lourdes, Snow Rise, Guy Macon: 우리가 앞으로 나아가는 것에 동의할 수 있을까?만약 그렇지 않다면, 우리는 무엇에 대해 이야기해야 하는가?이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 18:11, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- "몰니르판트들은 노골적인 인종차별을 다룰 때 동료 편집자들을 존중하고 수사력을 회복하는 데 동의했으며, 폭력 위협을 암시하는 추가적인 논평은 즉각 차단될 것이라는 경고를 받았다."라는 마무리 발언으로 제안할 가치가 있다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 18:17, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- (분쟁 편집) AFAICS가 그리 많지는 않아, 이반벡터.Lourdes는 슈퍼바이저와 위협으로 토론을 "종결"했고, 나는 설명서와 함께 그녀를 되돌렸다. 그리고 비관리자인 User:미스터 Rndude, 나를 되돌리고, 내 코멘트를 지우고, 그것에 대한 편집이 Softlavender와 함께 했다.나는 사실 어떤 관리자들이 싸우는 것을 보거나 어떤 구경거리에도 기여하는 것을 보지 못한다.지금 당장 문을 닫는 건 좀 갑작스럽다고 생각하는데, 토론 중간에 요약할 준비가 되었다고 생각한다면 이반, 내 손님이 되어주시오.비쇼넨탈크 18:22, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)
- 음, 루르드, 당신 자신, 그리고 나 (나는 루르드의 논평 중 하나와 가깝지만 편집상충되는 글을 썼고 그리고 나서 그것을 떠나기로 결정했다) 그리고 그 목록에 있는 몇 명의 다른 이름들은 내가 행정가라고 생각했지만 사실은 (그것이 문제가 되어야 한다는 것이 아니라, 정말로) 문제가 되지 않는다.나는 더 얘기할 것이 어디 있는지 모르지만 다른 사람들이 하는 것이 분명하기 때문에 나는 이것을 네 번째로 끝내고 다시 되돌리려고 하기보다는 토론을 진전시키거나 확실히 결론이 났다고 판단하려고 노력하고 있다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 18:26, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- (분쟁 편집) AFAICS가 그리 많지는 않아, 이반벡터.Lourdes는 슈퍼바이저와 위협으로 토론을 "종결"했고, 나는 설명서와 함께 그녀를 되돌렸다. 그리고 비관리자인 User:미스터 Rndude, 나를 되돌리고, 내 코멘트를 지우고, 그것에 대한 편집이 Softlavender와 함께 했다.나는 사실 어떤 관리자들이 싸우는 것을 보거나 어떤 구경거리에도 기여하는 것을 보지 못한다.지금 당장 문을 닫는 건 좀 갑작스럽다고 생각하는데, 토론 중간에 요약할 준비가 되었다고 생각한다면 이반, 내 손님이 되어주시오.비쇼넨탈크 18:22, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)
- 나는 확실히 이의가 없다.마감 후 나의 편집은 실수였고, 따라서 나는 되돌렸다.어쨌든, 나는 이미 관심 있는 공동체 구성원으로서 공정한 몫 이상의 것을 말했고, 나는 개인적으로 그 실이 우리가 지금 이 시기에 있을 것 같은 만큼 그것이 어떤 목적을 달성할 수 있고 우리 모두를 합의에 가깝게 만들었다고 생각한다; 당신의 제안된 폐쇄 언어에 대해서도 반대하지 않는다.2018년 10월 26일 눈 18:53 (UTC)[
- 여기서 어떤 행동이 가장 적절한지 모르지만 경고 이상의 것이 되어야 한다."예의를 지키는 일"을 제안하는 MP는 그가 여전히 바로 이 실마리에서 그의 행동을 옹호하고 있을 때 큰 의미가 없다: [37], [38].몇몇 다른 논평들은 내게 이상해 보인다.사용자가 여러 번 조건부 폭력을 위협하는데, 한 달여 전에 일어난 일이라 무시하라는 댓글이 하나 있다고?이 사용자는 WP에 수년간 몸담았으며 심각한 조치를 취하지 않을 경우 이러한 행동은 계속될 것으로 보인다.델레트 (대화)18:34, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- FWIW, 나는 이 문제에 대해 더 이상 논의할 의사가 없다. 단, 내가 분명히 의향이 있다고 말한 두 개의 사용자 대화 페이지를 제외하고는 말이다.만약 여기에 나에 대한 제재를 요청하기 위해 논평을 기다리고 있는 편집자들이 있다면, 그들을 정돈된 줄에 서게 한 다음 누군가가 "나는 그것을 다시 돌려줄 것이고, 다시는 그런 폭력을 꺼내지 않을 것이다"라고 결정하는 것은 충분한 결론이다. 아니면 우리가 나를 차단하고 그것에 대해 큰 악취를 풍길 필요가 있다면, 다음이다.그러나 진지하게:잘먹었습니다.플로크, 이반, 비시(분명히)의 의견에 동의하지만, 종료를 둘러싼 전쟁을 편집하는 것은 충분히 신경 쓰지 않는다.제발, 모두들 그만 싸우자!우리 모두는 더 좋은 할 일이 있다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:30, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- 이반, 네가 제안한 요약은 충분히 완벽해.닫아.루르데스 18:29, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 가까운 곳에 지원을 하라; 가까운 곳에 낙담이나 경고가 있든, 아니면 더 시민적이 되려고 노력하기로 한 국회의원의 합의를 그저 다시 하는 것이든, 나에게는 문제가 되지 않는다. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:31, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
제발.이미 충분히.GMGtalk 21:04, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
불에 기름을 붓고 싸우진 않겠지?
– 아마도, 하지만 불은 다이너마이트로 일상적으로 진화한다.EENG 19:34, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
나는 이것이 어리석고 잠시 동안 있었던 발언 후에 닫혔어야 했다고 내 논평에 동의한다.솔직히 말해서, 루르드 광적인 위협은 내가 언급할 수 있을 만큼 걱정된다.관리자 학대에 매우 반대하는 사람으로서, 만약 그들이 그 협박을 관철했다면, 나는 즉시 ARB로 가서 소송을 제기했을 것이다. --Tarage (대화) 21:00, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
IP 주제가 금지될 수 있는가?
일단 해결된 대로 철수한다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 09:40, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
96.231.108.158 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
위의 IP는, 분명히 ...인 것 같다.
Zainab Chaudry(대화 기록 편집 보호 링크 삭제 로그 보기 보기)
... (메릴랜드 주민)은 경고와 차단, 그리고 더 많은 통보와 경고에도 불구하고, 자신에 대한 기사를 계속해서 교란적으로 편집하고 편집하고 있다.기사의 일시적 반보호가 먹혀들거나, 단기차단이 먹혀들지는 않을 것 같은데, 그녀는 그저 몇 번이고 반복된 것처럼 나중에 다시 시작할 뿐이기 때문이다.현재 그녀는 인용문을 왜곡하여 "아웃리치 매니저"를 "아웃리치 디렉터"로 바꾸려고 편집전을 벌이고 있다.도움이 필요했다.고마워요.소프트라벤더 (대화) 05:50, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 논평) IP의 변화를 고려할 때, 그러한 주제 금지는 집행할 수 없을 것이다.그러한 조치는 등록된 계정에서만 시행 가능하지만, 그럼에도 불구하고, 파괴적인 편집자들은 종종 그들의 주제 금지(IP로 편집하는 것을 포함)를 피하기 위해 엄포를 놓곤 한다.업무방해적 편집에 대해서는 기사를 계속 주시하는 것이 최선이며, 복수의 계정 때문에 기사가 업무방해되고 있는 경우/IP, WP:RFP는 저 멀리 있다.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 05:58, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 나는 관리자가 응답하기를 기다릴 것이다.이는 고정 IP이므로 주제 금지 사항이 적용될 수 있으며, IP를 침해할 경우 장기 차단을 받을 수 있다.앞에서 언급했듯이, RFPP는 그것이 꽤 긴 시간이 아니면 작동하지 않을 것이다; 만약 그것이 단지 일시적인 것이라면, IP는 이상할 정도로 지속적이기 때문에 그것이 끝났을 때 다시 돌아올 것이다.그대로, 경고에도 불구하고, [39], [40], [41], [42] (24시간보다 약간 길지만 중요하지 않음) 4개의 동일한 편집-경고 편집 내용을 이미 위반했기 때문에, 나는 그들을 REWNEW에 보고할 수 있었지만, 그들은 마지막 블록을 기다린 것처럼 단지 단기 블록을 기다릴 것이다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 06:47, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 모든 질문에 대한 대답은 다음과 같다: 아니, 주제가 금지되지 않음(주제의 모든 페이지를 보호하는 방법밖에 없음...광범위하게 해석됨); 아니, 외설되지 않음; (사고나 "잊어버린" 관리자에 의한 것은 제외), 그리고—아직 묻지도 않은 질문, 이것—아니오, 체크유저조차도 IP를 계정에 연결하지 않기 때문에, 우리는 아마도 둘 중 어느 쪽도 하지 말아야 할 것이다.-——SerialNumber54129 07:35, 2018년 10월 27일(UTC)[
- 사용자 토크 페이지나 기사 토크 페이지에서 사용자와 어떤 것도 논의하려는 시도가 보이지 않는다.사용자 대화 템플릿은 보이나 계산은 안 된다.CAIR의 웹사이트는 그녀가 메릴랜드의 홍보 책임자라고 말하므로 그녀에게 문제가 된다면 나는 그것을 권위 있는 것으로 간주할 것이다.Person은 2주 동안 약 십여 개의 편집을 했다. 그래서 이것이 오랫동안 지속되어온 큰 논쟁이라고 할 수 없다.내가 보기엔 너무 과민반응하고 BURO 같아.지금 여기는 늦었으니 내일 다른 수정사항을 확인해 볼 수 있는지 알아볼게. 173.228.123.166 (대화) 08:56, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
사용자:스크립션 중단 편집
Primefac에 따라 템플릿 토크 페이지에서 논의가 진행될 수 있도록 허용하십시오. 여기서 더 이상 필요 없음. (비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더(토크) 06:30, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
- 위키백과:관리자_공지판/사고 #사용자:각본
- {{인포박스 중국어}}
- {{인포박스 중국어/중국어}}
- 템플릿:Infobox 중국어/doc
- 사용자 포함
템플릿에서 논란이 되는(파괴적인) 편집을 수행한 사용자 스크립트.마무리 관리자는 또한 "성의를 보일 수만 있다면 스크립트 변경에 대해 이의를 제기한 이후 이전 번복으로 되돌릴 것을 강력히 제안할 것"이라고 말했다.
그러나 사용자는 자신의 변경사항 되돌리기에 동의하지 않으며(템플릿 토크 참조), 현재 닫힌 스레드에서 이러한 언급을 했다.(특수:Diff/865481962)
:템플릿의 보호 수준:인포박스 중국어/중국어는 내가 편집한 지 몇 년 만에 당신에 의해 바뀌었다.스크립트(대화) 06:55, 2018년 10월 24일(UTC)}}
그가 다른 사용자들과 협력하기를 바라는 희망은 없어 보인다.Matthew_hk tc 13:14, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 네가 이전에 내가 업무 중단에 대해 보고한 것은 최종 관리자에 의해 불신임을 받은 것으로 간주되었다.그럼에도 불구하고, 당신은 위의 혼란에 대한 악의적인 비난을 반복한다.이것은 순수한 내용상의 논쟁이다. 악의적인 것은 아무 것도 일어나지 않았다.각본 (대화) 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC 13:30,
템플릿은 이렇게 코드화되었다. 핀인 데이터는 에 저장되었다.
p=
광둥어 예일대 인y=
, 광둥어 주팅.j=
. Theshowflag=
코드는 그 안에 있는 걸 유발하기 위한 거였어showflag=
숨겨진 접을 수 있는 목록의 데이터를 표시하십시오.그러므로showflag=p
일을 하는 것은 피닌을 보여주기 위한 의도였다.에 동일한 논리가 적용된다.showflag=j
그리고showflag=y
만약 당신이 모든 광동성 기사들을 보여주길 원한다면showflag=y
대신에showflag=j
, 기사의 {{Infobox Chinese} 템플릿을 차례대로 변경하고, 다음에 대한 코드를 추가하여 템플릿의 백엔드 코드를 고정한다.showflag=y
(그리고 관련된 기타 조합y=
) 템플릿 코드를 파괴하지 마십시오.showflag=j
그리고showflag=gd
(광동 로마자 표기).
나는 다시 비유를 하고 싶지 않다.Matthew_hk tc 13:33, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 이미 폐행정관이 지적한 바와 같이, 이것은 사보타주가 아니라 정당한 업무처리 방법이다.이것이 어떤 규칙에 어긋난다는 너의 생각은 현실에서는 근거가 없다.각본 (토크) 13:41, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 스레드를 사용하지 않는 다른 관리자에게.나는 mdy date 형식을 좋아하는 사람이 {{생일 및 나이를 편집하는 것은 공공 기물 파손이 아니라고 본다.
df=yes
dmy대신 mdy를 보여드리기 위해서.매슈_hktc 13:37, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 관리자 코멘트를 닫은 후 이전에 닫았던 내 유일한 실수는 페이지 보호로 인해 스크립트(Scription)가 편집 내용을 되돌릴 수 없다는 것을 깨닫지 못한 것이었다.어쨌든, 나는 그 변화를 강요하지 않았고 그들은 어쨌든 거절했을 것이다.이 문제를 종결(again)하고 템플릿 토크 페이지에서 토론이 진행될 수 있도록 권장하십시오.Matthew hk에 의한 추가적인 붕괴는, 음, 파괴적인 것으로 간주될 수 있다.프라임팩(토크) 16:16, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
직렬 BLP 위반 IP, 5부? (이번에 계정 있음)
사용자 외설, IP 차단 6개월(비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 07:34, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
우리는 호주의 보수당 파워브로커 마커스 바스티아안에 사로잡혀 그의 글과 그와 관련된 모든 사람들의 글에 BLP를 위반하는 쓰레기를 계속 추가하고 있는 한 IP 사용자(110.22.50.32)와 함께 지금 몇 달째 계속되는 문제를 겪고 있다.
약 한 달 전, 그는 짧은 두 블록이 그를 멈추게 하지 못하자 임블란터에게 6개월 동안 막혔다.그는 일주일이나 이틀 후 49.177.138.206으로 다시 나타났는데, 이 역시 양말 탈취로 이반벡터에 의해 저지당했다.IP는 바스티아안과 어렴풋이 연관되어 있는 누군가의 기사에 이와 같은 기괴한 쓰레기를 계속 더하고 있었다.이 때 바스티아안 기사는 신성한 이슈로 인해 장기간 반보호되어 있었다.
사용자 큐:기사의 편집 열정과 독특한 편집 스타일과 기묘한 문법을 가지고 갑자기 나타난 스모키파이어.그는 고등학교 기사에 바스티아안 지사에 대한 주장을 덧붙였고, 바스티아안의 아내와 관계를 맺었다는 이유로 자신을 공격하려는 목적, 1999년 지루하게 들리는 행사에 참석한 하원의원 같은 이상한 트라이비아 등을 목적으로 한 비노력적인 정치 후보에 대한 기사를 만들었다.
그의 편집 이력을 보다 심층적으로 살펴보면, 그는 실제로 바스티아어 기사의 최초 작성자인데, IP에 대한 끊임없는 문제를 알아차리기 훨씬 전에 비슷한 종류의 편집이 있었다.이것은 IP 편집 이전의 원래 계정인 것 같다 - 이 매우 틈새에 집착하고 독특하게 이상한 편집 스타일과 문법을 가진 두 명의 사용자가 있을 가능성은 거의 없다.
이 계좌도 차단할 수 있는 겁니까?이번 일은 끝이 없는 것 같다.드로버의 아내 (토크) 10:47, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 대부분의 다른 때와 마찬가지로, 통상적으로 명백하게 증가하는 파괴적인 행동/불통도 이 논의에 대해 통지한 적이 있다.(그리고 또)드로버의 아내 (토크) 11시 15분, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 계정에서 편집하는 사람은 적어도 110.22.50.32 (대화 · 기여 · WHOIS)에서 편집하는 사람과 동일하며, 다른 사람도 마찬가지일 것이고, 이는 이러한 블록 회피가 된다.막아서 변명을 했다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 13:59, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
랜팅 사용자 페이지
페이지 삭제 U5 by Fastly (nac) 레거시pac (talk) 06:20, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
Ellis-Ellis Morgan의 사용자 페이지를 볼 수 있는 관리자가 표절과 법적 조치를 언급하는 것에 대해 야단법석을 떨고 있다.그들의 사용자 페이지를 만드는 것이 그들의 유일한 편집이었다.홈랜더(토크) 03:49, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 논평) WP의 경우:옹호.아마도 그들은 우리의 정책/지침 중 일부에 대해 교육을 받아야 할 것이다.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 04:24, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 "밥"이 그의 축복을 들어주고, 진지하게 받아들여지지 않을 것(아마도 의도된 바도 아닌)이라고 본다.누군가가 정색을 하면서 '조상을 훔칠 권리'가 무엇을 의미하는지 설명할 수 없다면 말이다.쇼크여단 하베스터 보리스 (대화) 04:57, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 분명히 위키피디아를 향상시키기 위해 여기 있는 것은 아니다.무한 블록 및 사용자 페이지 삭제를 추천한다.--RAF910 (대화) 05:14, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 사용자 페이지가 떠들썩하거나 NotHereer라고 해도 정확히 무엇이 문제인가?불평하는 사람은 모두 내버려두고 대신 기사에 기여하거나 부메랑을 기대해야 한다.2600:1003:B859:C85:5588:3267:F1B0:9E07 (토크) 05:42, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- ...잘 로그아웃했네 편집.부메랑은 그렇게 되지 않는다.또한 나는 편집자가 무엇을 경시하고 있는지 알아내기 위해 최선을 다하고 있다.샬롯은 여왕이 아니라 딸인 것 같다.내 조지아 역사를 버퍼링해야 할 것 같아... --타라지 (토크) 05:50, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- ...잘못된 믿음의 가정이다.나는 로그인하지 않는다.뭐가 중요하겠어?2600:1003:B859:C85:5588:3267:F1B0:9E07 (대화) 06:02, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 책임감.아는 사람에게 그 개념을 설명해 달라고 부탁해. --CaltonTalk 06:07, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- @Calton:나한테 친절하게 설명해 줄 수 있을 것 같아?2600:1003:B859:C85:5588:3267:F1B0:9E07 (대화) 06:12, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 책임감.아는 사람에게 그 개념을 설명해 달라고 부탁해. --CaltonTalk 06:07, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- ...잘못된 믿음의 가정이다.나는 로그인하지 않는다.뭐가 중요하겠어?2600:1003:B859:C85:5588:3267:F1B0:9E07 (대화) 06:02, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- WP에 분명한 문제가 있는 경우를 살펴보십시오.NOT. WP: 참조:사용자 페이지 작성 방법에 대한 자세한 내용은 USERPAGE를 참조하십시오.---1998IanMacMut 05:54, 2018년 10월 27일(UTC)[
- ...잘 로그아웃했네 편집.부메랑은 그렇게 되지 않는다.또한 나는 편집자가 무엇을 경시하고 있는지 알아내기 위해 최선을 다하고 있다.샬롯은 여왕이 아니라 딸인 것 같다.내 조지아 역사를 버퍼링해야 할 것 같아... --타라지 (토크) 05:50, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 사용자 페이지가 떠들썩하거나 NotHereer라고 해도 정확히 무엇이 문제인가?불평하는 사람은 모두 내버려두고 대신 기사에 기여하거나 부메랑을 기대해야 한다.2600:1003:B859:C85:5588:3267:F1B0:9E07 (토크) 05:42, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 분명히 위키피디아를 향상시키기 위해 여기 있는 것은 아니다.무한 블록 및 사용자 페이지 삭제를 추천한다.--RAF910 (대화) 05:14, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 "밥"이 그의 축복을 들어주고, 진지하게 받아들여지지 않을 것(아마도 의도된 바도 아닌)이라고 본다.누군가가 정색을 하면서 '조상을 훔칠 권리'가 무엇을 의미하는지 설명할 수 없다면 말이다.쇼크여단 하베스터 보리스 (대화) 04:57, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
완벽한 U5와 태그가 붙은 것.안녕 레거시팩 (대화) 06:11, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
프랜시스 3월
클래스 프로젝트로 결정됨.해결했다.(비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 04:09, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 글을 어디에 올려야 할지 모르겠지만, 나는 그것이 여기서 마땅히 받아야 할 주목을 받았으면 좋겠어.나는 오늘 Francis March 페이지를 수 많은 편집한 것을 주목했다. 이 페이지에 대한 유일한 기여를 하는 다른 레드링크 사용자들이 모두 그 페이지를 편집하는 것을 통해서 말이다.카피비오를 실행한 후, "그들"이 추가한 대부분의 것은 다른 출처의 저작권을 침해하는 것이다.관리자에게 요청하여 이 문제를 살펴보십시오.나는 그것들이 모두 같은 사용자들의 양말이라고 생각하지만 그것에 대한 조사를 어떻게 열어야 할지 확실하지 않다. 그리고 가능하다면 나는 그들의 모든 개정판이 저작권이 있는 정보를 포함하고 있기 때문에 삭제되고 숨겨졌으면 한다.도와줘서 고마워! SEMMENDER (토크) 19:47, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 나에게 양말퍼플링이라기 보다는 학급 프로젝트나 비슷한 것처럼 보인다.불행히도 지금 그것을 조사할 시간이 없다.카피비오가 관련된 경우 해당 자료는 삭제해야 한다.Deor (대화)20:10, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 의견)만약 그것이 계급 프로젝트였다면 그들은 똑같을 수 있다.그것은 좋은 믿음의 맛집 같아 보인다.개별 편집을 위해 태그 카피비오만 있으면 되고 c&p 소스가 직접 인용할 필요가 있다고 예상하는 것이 아니라, 그들에게 멋진 (템플링된) 메시지를 보내면 된다.매튜 hk (토크) 23:35, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 성스러운 10명의 레드링크 편집자 여러분 모두 하루에.그것은 무명의 장수에 관한 기사로서는 다소 기록처럼 들린다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 07:42, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
사용자:킨테츠부팔로
대체 용어에 주어지는 주제 금지로 마무리.나는 사용자들의 명백한 협업 부족으로 인해 사용자를 차단하는 것에 대한 논의가 있다는 점에 주목한다. 그러나 문제가 지속된다면, 또는 Kintetsubuffalo 편집이 지속된다면, 그것은 나중에 살펴볼 수 있는 것이다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 17:07, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
User:Kintetsubuffalo가 사용자 경고를 사용한 행동과 이에 대한 논의를 거부하는 것에 관한 것이다.
사용자:The WowaDepp가 위키백과에 처음 기여한 것은 키르기스스탄에 대한 명백한 비파괴적 편집이었다[45].노골적인 것은 아니었지만 공공 기물 파손 경고의 가치가 있어서 나는 The WowaDepp의 토크 페이지[46]에 레벨 1 경고를 남겼다.
20분 후 The WowaDepp의 토크 페이지[47]에 레벨 4의 반달리즘 사용자 경고가 나타난다.그것은 아무런 표식이 없다.처음에는 {{부호되지 않은}}}}을(를) 더하는 것이 내 의도였지만, 그때 보니 더 와우뎁이 처음 부임한 이후로는 그 이상의 기여는 전혀 없었다.나는 User:Kintetsubuffalo에서 편집한 것을 확인했다.나는 그것을 편집 요약본 "미서명, 반달리즘"으로 되돌렸다.그리고 나서 킨테츠부팔로의 사용자 토크 페이지로 가서 설명을 했다.Kintetsubuffalo는 내가 글을 올리기 전에 "다른 사람의 댓글을 편집하지 말라"는 요약 편집으로 나의 반전을 되돌렸다.공공 기물 파손은 공공 기물 파손이다."[49] 이후 날짜 이후 편집하여 원래의 게시물에 서명했다.
나는 킨테츠부팔로의 사용자 토크 페이지[50][51]에 두 개의 메시지를 남겼다. 각 메시지는 킨테츠부팔로에 의해 차례로 되돌아갔다. "왜 이것을 비난하는가? 앞으로 나아가는가?"[52]와 "어떤 부분에서 당신은 이해하지 못하였는가?"[53].
내가 킨테츠부팔로를 접한 상황에서 그는 내 뒤에 4단계 반달리즘 경고문을 내 뒤에 붙였고, 아무런 기여도 없이, 그것은 서명되지 않았다.만약 고의적으로 행해진다면, 이것은 위키백과의 행동 지침과 어긋나게 될 것이다.새로 온 사람들과 위키피디아를 물어뜯지 마십시오.신의를 지키다.
Kintetsubuffalo의 행동에는 더 큰 문제가 있다.
그는 전에도 똑같은 일을 한 적이 있다.새로운 사용자가 비파괴적인 편집을 한다.편집자(또는 봇)는 편집을 되돌리고 사용자의 토크 페이지에 하위 단계의 사용자 경고를 남긴다.그리고 나서, 새로운 사용자에 의한 전혀 간섭적인 편집 없이, 킨테츠부팔로는 레벨 4의 반달리즘 경고를 남긴다.그는 서명하지 않는다.[54][55][56][57][58] 이것은 사실 반달리즘을 다루는 편집자를 밟고, 반달리즘을 할 이유가 없을 때 반달리즘 사용자에게 다시 부당한 경고를 하는 명백한 효과를 가진다.블록의 정당성을 평가하는 편집자는 하나의 사건이 하나 이상의 사건이라고 생각할 수 있다.그 게시물이 서명되지 않았다는 것은 혼란만 가중시킬 뿐이다.
킨테츠부펄로 역시 {{반달리즘4}}}}}로 사용자 토크 페이지를 만드는 루틴을 만든다.[59][60][61][62][63][64][65][66][67][68][69][70][71][72][73][74][75][76] The correct template for giving a user an immediate assumption-of-bad-faith warning that their next edit will result in a block is {{uw-vandalism4im}}, so Kintetsubuffalo is using the wrong template.또한, 이 게시물들 중 어느 것도 서명되지 않았다.그 외에도, 최고 수준의 경고가 즉시 내려져야 할 때가 분명히 있지만, 킨테츠부팔로는 이보다 낮은 수준의 사용자 경고를 거의 하지 않는다.Kintetsubuffalo가 가이드라인에서 요구하는 대로 선의의 행동을 하고 있다는 것은 도저히 납득할 수 없다.
유감스럽게도 킨테츠부팔로는 그의 행동에 대해 토론하기를 거부한다.심지어 그가 자신의 게시물에 서명하는 것을 잊거나 잘못된 템플릿을 사용하고 있다는 것도 아니다.킨테츠부팔로 평론가가 자신의 토크 페이지에서 자신의 행동에 대해 논하지 않은 결과는 우리가 대신 여기 있다는 것이다. --Bsherr (대화) 21:58, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 관리자들이 킨테츠부팔로가 잘못했다고 생각하는 모든 것에 대해 당신과 대화를 나누도록 강요하는 겁니까?왜냐하면 그런 일은 일어날 가능성이 매우 낮기 때문이다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it.22:08, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ 하라
- No. --Bsherr (대화) 22:10, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 무슨 일이 일어났으면 좋겠니? --타라지 (대화) 22:11, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 나는 OP가 더 넓은 그룹이 해결책을 찾을 수 있도록 이 사용자의 무례하고 달갑지 않은 행동을 제기하고 있다고 믿는다.그것은 꽤 적절한 것 같다.레거시pac (대화) 22:16, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 단지 의도의 혼동이 있었기 때문에 해명을 원했을 뿐이다.헷갈리는 파일링에 대해 흔히 묻는 질문이다. --타라지 (대화) 22:26, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 레거시팍이 꽤 잘 표현했다.수정 편집에 대해서는 킨테츠부펄로의 중복 사용자 경고가 되돌아가야 한다고 생각하고, 서명되지 않은 게시물에는 서명을 했다.킨테츠부팔로 본인에 대해서는, 공동체가 문제가 있다는 것에 동의한다면, 그의 행동이 바뀌었으면 한다.그것이 어떻게 강요되어야 하는가에 대해서는, 나는 킨테츠부펄로가 어떻게 대응하고, 지역사회가 어떻게 생각하고, 이곳의 행정가들이 가장 잘 되기 위해 동의하는지에 달려 있다고 생각한다.킨테츠부팔로가 여기서 연설된 것은 이번이 처음은 아니지만 구체적인 제안을 하는 것은 시기상조라고 생각한다. --Bsher (대화) 22:31, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 타라게, 구체적인 시정 행동을 찾고 있다면, 내 의견으로는, (1) 킨테츠부팔로가 자신의 게시물에 서명해야 하고, (2) 이미 경고가 내려진 편집에 대해서는 사용자 경고를 하지 말아야 하며, (3) 문서 내용을 위반하는 첫 번째 경고로서 {{uw-vandalism4}}을(를) 사용하지 말아야 하며, (4) h에 대해 논의를 해야 한다.요약 및 번복 편집에 포함되지 않는 사용자 토크 페이지로서, (5) 위키백과를 따른다.새로 온 사람들과 위키피디아를 물어뜯지 마십시오.선의로 행동하라. --Bsherr (대화) 22:41, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 나는 OP가 더 넓은 그룹이 해결책을 찾을 수 있도록 이 사용자의 무례하고 달갑지 않은 행동을 제기하고 있다고 믿는다.그것은 꽤 적절한 것 같다.레거시pac (대화) 22:16, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 무슨 일이 일어났으면 좋겠니? --타라지 (대화) 22:11, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- No. --Bsherr (대화) 22:10, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
나는 그 권고안에 동의한다.나는 AfD와 함께 일하면서 많은 스팸, 반달리즘 등을 취급한다.그것은 내가 수년간의 편집에 사용한 것보다 짧은 시간에 게시된 레벨 4 경고다.솔직히 누군가 정말로 레벨 4의 반달리즘 경고를 받을 자격이 있다면, 올바른 행동 방침은 그들을 차단한 것에 대해 보고하는 것이다.이런 행동 양식은 골치 아픈 일이다.나는 이 사용자가 스스로 설명하는 것을 보고 싶다.레거시pac (대화) 22:52, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 동의해. 그 LV4 경고 모음은 말도 안 돼User talk:74.218.186.106 - 이 사용자가 테스트 편집을 한 후 되돌렸다.이것은 아마도 선의의 편집일 것이다.4급 경고를 받았어그렇다, 대부분의 IP가 파괴되고 있다. 하지만 경쟁적으로 끔찍하지 않은 한 우리는 4단계 경고로 직행하지 않는다.그만 좀 해그러나 사용자 대화 상단의 "지침"을 보면 다음과 같다.Kintetsubuffalo, 나는 우리가 설명을 얻을지 확신할 수 없다.하지만, 그들은 이 실에 대한 정보를 받았으니, 두고 봅시다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 23:06, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 의견).그(킨테츠부펄로)는 ~~~를 몰랐거나 일부러 건너뛰었거나.나는 사람들이 내가 경고를 보낼 때 인신공격에 반응하거나 레벨 0 경고에 무례하게 반응하여 해명을 요구하기를 기대한다.매튜 hk (토크) 01:19, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 또한, 레벨 4 경고에 대해.{{shared ip 조언}}}}}을(를) 추가하고 환영(캔) 메시지를 보내면서 몇 가지를 고쳤으나, 나머지는 그가 계속 그렇게 한다면 WP:BRI?매튜 hk (토크) 01:26, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 참고. Kintetsubuffalo는 편집 요약 "yawn"과 함께 자신의 토크 페이지에서 ANI 통지를 삭제했으며, 오늘 아침 여기서 이 문제를 다루지 않고 편집했다.그들의 토크페이지로 볼 때, 나는 이렇게 예상했었다.문제는, 그러므로 여기서 어디로 갈 것인가 하는 것이다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 09:15, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- Meh는 그들이 공공 기물 파손 주의보를 발령하는 것을 금지하고 그것을 처리했다.위에 제공된 그 목록은 터무니없다.만약 그들이 온라인에서 불량배 역할을 하고 싶다면, 항상 더 큰 막대기를 가진 누군가가 있다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 10:23, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[ 하라
7월 말, 비슷한 사용자(스타카로우)가 이곳에서 볼 수 있는 것처럼 시험 편집을 한 반달이나 편집자에게 레벨 4 경고를 첫 경고로 남기고 있었다. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive988 나는 그들이 같은 편집자가 될 수 있는지 궁금하다.JC7V-talk 05:38, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
주제 금지 토론
위의 몇 가지 의견에 기초하여, 나는 Kintetsubuffalo (토크 · 기여)가 어떤 경고 템플릿도 사용하지 못하도록 금지하는 주제에 대해 토론을 시작하고 있다.금지의 문구는 다음과 같다.
사용자:Kintetsubuffalo는 위키백과의 경고 목록을 포함하되 이에 국한되지 않는 템플리트 경고를 사용할 수 없다.템플릿 메시지/사용자 대화 네임스페이스.그는 다른 사용자들에게 경고할 수도 있지만, 그의 경고가 그가 직접 입력하는 경우에만, 문제의 행동을 직접적으로 언급할 수 있다.또한, 킨테츠부팔로는 사용자가 이전에 경고받은 행동에 대해 어떤 유형의 경고도 남기지 않으며, 다른 사람의 사용자 토크 페이지에 자신의 모든 게시물에 서명하도록 되어 있다.어떤 식으로든 이 금지 조항을 준수하지 않을 경우 차단 관리자의 재량에 따라 차단이 점진적으로 길어질 수 있다.
문제의 본질을 담아냈으면 좋겠다. --Jayron32 16:32, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
지원 금지
- --Jayron32 16:31, 2018년 10월 26일(UTC) 명명자.
- (비관리자 논평) 오래 전에 차단된 사람으로서 (내 기억이 맞다면, 또한 불신임으로 경고를 보낸 탓도 있다.)매튜 hk (토크) 16:38, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 응, 나는 그런 금지를 지지해.이 신참자는 그만둬야 해.토론 시도에도 불구하고 사용자의 태연함은 어울리지 않는다.비쇼넨톡톡 16:38, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)
- 나는 레벨 1을 건너뛰는 게 전부인데, 이건 말도 안 돼.드레이미스 (토크) 17:37, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나는 시험 편집이라고 묘사될 수 있는 것에 대해 서명되지 않은 레벨 4 경고가 남겨진 것에 대한 어떠한 정당성도 생각해 낼 수 없다.KB가 여기에 코멘트를 달지 않으려 한다면 이 방법밖에 없다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:42, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 위와 같은 내 평가에 의하면그는 여기서 논의하지 않을 것이니, 금지령을 제정하고 그가 계속하면 그를 막아라.그는 레벨 4 경고 쿼터를 다 써버렸다.레거시pac (대화) 2018년 10월 26일 19시 10분 (UTC)[
- 그렇다. Kintetsubuffalo가 (즉, 주로 2급이 아닌) 첫 번째 위반에 대해 수준 1 또는 수준 2 경고만 사용하는 것에 동의하는 경우, 이미 더 이상의 위반 없이 템플리트 된 사람들을 재시범하지 않고 경고에 서명하는 것을 피하기 위해.—David Eppstein (대화) 19:50, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다, 아직 완벽한 표현이 발견되지는 않았고 블랙 카이트의 2018년 10월 26일자 글은 내 취향에 지나치게 격식을 차리지만(이미 남겨두었다면 또 다른 경고를 발령하는 것은 포함하지 않는다) 더 좋은 글도 없고, 이미 충분한 시간을 할애했다.나는 KB가 편집을 롤백하고 경고/설명서를 남기지 않으며 "참여"가 충분하지 않다는 것을 암시하는 2018년 10월 26일 현재의 Jayron32 텍스트보다 블랙 카이트의 텍스트를 선호한다.조누니크 (대화) 00:42, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 응. 아래 블랙 카이트의 수정 버전을 선호하지만, 그렇게 되면 수동으로 과잉 공격적 경고를 할 수 있을까?만약 그런 일이 생긴다면 우리가 그 문제를 해결할 수 있을 것 같아.보잉! 제베디(토크) 05:47, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 지지하다.특히 편집자 유보를 위해.그의 행동은 논리도 근거도 없고, 자신이 왜 그런 짓을 하고 있는지 설명하거나 허튼 소리를 그만두겠다고 약속할 수 없는 한 괴롭힘이나 트롤이나 마찬가지다.제재에 따르지 않으면 변명의 여지가 없기를 바라는 것인데, 공감대가 형성돼 있는 것 같다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 14:18, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
예약 지원.나는 주제 금지의 주체를 지지하지만, 나는 현재 제안된 단어들이 핵심을 찌를 것이라고 생각하지 않는다.내 추론은 아래 '대체 또는 추가 제안' 섹션을 참조하십시오.TheVicarsCat (토크) 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC) 15:19[
- 아래 소프트라벤더의 코멘트를 받아쳤다.반대 섹션을 참조하십시오.TheVicarsCat (토크) 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC) 16:49 [
- 설명:나는 위 제안을 지지해 왔지만, 시간이 너무 많이 걸려서 지금쯤이면 사용자가 다른 모든 알림을 받는 것처럼 자신의 대화 페이지에서 제재를 삭제하려고 한다는 것을 잘 알고 있다.그리고 나서 그는 막히게 될 거야.그는 분명히 조항과 하위 조항과 부록이 있는 제한을 따르지 않을 것이다.어떤 식으로 보더라도 그는 결국 변명의 차단을 당할 것이다.그러니 그냥 쫓아가서 변명을 하는 게 어때?만약 그가 그때 막힘없이 요청하고 템플리트 작성과 서명 규범을 준수하겠다고 맹세하고 싶다면, 그는 할 수 있다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 17:07, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
금지 반대
- 반대: 페르 소프트라벤더의 아래 한 쌍의 논평.이 ANI에 대한 알림을 두 번째로 삭제하지 않은 것은 킨테츠부팔로가 이 ANI 스레드를 읽을 생각은커녕 읽을 생각도 없다는 것을 IMHO가 분명히 한다.나는 그가 그 과정을 경멸하며 다루고 있다고 믿으며 어떤 대응도 그것을 반영할 필요가 있다.TheVicarsCat (talk) 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC) 16:53[
토론
- 나는 사실 제이런이 토론을 시작하기 전에 그런 금지를 제정할 생각이었으니까, 앞으로 몇 시간 안에 반대 의견이 없으면 먼저 가서 그렇게 하겠다.그러나 나는 어떤 반대도 보이지 않는다; 이것은 협력적으로 편집해야 할 필요를 상당히 직접적으로 위반하는 것이다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 17:09, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 모두가 같은 입장이기 때문에, 모든 사람들은 이것이 정말로 그가 되돌아가고 전혀 경고를 하지 않을 것이라는 것을 깨닫는다, 그렇지 않은가?다들 괜찮아?반드시 그 결과에 반대하지는 않지만, 며칠 안에 또 다른 "킨테츠부팔로가 반달리즘/시험 편집에 대해 경고하는 것은 아니다"라는 실마리가 생기지 않도록 하는 것. --Floquenbeam (토크) 20:50, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 좋아졌네.만약 그들이 여기서 언급하고 트윙클을 통한 레벨 1 경고가 제재에서 금지되지 않도록 요청한다면, 나는 그것으로 충분할 것이다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:01, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 플로크 말이 맞아.이 편집자가 준수할 것 같지 않거나 최소한 허점을 발견할 것 같기 때문에, 나는 "사용자: 킨테츠부팔로는 위키백과의 경고 목록을 포함하되 이에 국한되지 않는 템플리트 경고의 사용을 무기한 금지한다:템플릿 메시지/사용자 대화 네임스페이스. 그러나 만약 그가 반달리즘적이거나 파괴적인 편집자들을 되돌린다면, 그는 자신이 직접 타이핑한 경고로 편집자에게 경고해야 한다. 이것은 문제의 행동을 직접적으로 다룬다. 게다가, 킨테츠부팔로는 자신의 모든 게시물에 다른 사람의 사용자 토크 페이지에 서명해야 한다. 어떤 식으로든 이 금지 조항을 준수하지 않을 경우 차단 관리자의 재량에 따라 차단이 점진적으로 길어질 수 있다."내 생각엔 그게 그걸 덮고 있는 것 같아.블랙 카이트 (토크) 21:11, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 원래 제안서보다 훨씬 낫네그렇게 만드세요. --Guy Macon (토크) 23:03, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
-
- Tarage의 제안은 소리가 좋고 필요할 때마다 고려해야 하는 추가적인 제약이 될 수 있지만, Black Kite가 다시 제안한 요약은 당면한 대부분의 관련 이슈를 포착하기에 충분할 정도로 광범위하다.루르데스 05:27, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
-
User:Kintetsubuffalo를 User talk 페이지에 공지했는데, 아직 이 논의에 대해 아무 것도 하지 않은 것 같아.돼지고기 찹GMX 06:37, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그는 이미 통지를 받았고, 여기서 그것을 제거했다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 06:49, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ 하라 고 말했다.
- 내 통지는 "파행주의는 파괴 행위"라는 편집 요약과 함께 삭제되었다.여기서 뭔가 조치를 취해야 할 것 같다.돼지고기 찹GMX 07:08, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
대체 또는 추가 제안
나는 이 마지막 공백에 대한 견해와 논평이 WP에 대한 완전한 거부감(또는 심지어 거절)이 있는 것 같다.이 문제에 대해 소통하십시오.내가 어떤 행동을 강요할 수 있는 행동 방침을 제안해도 좋다.주제 금지에 대한 위의 논의는 전적으로 칭찬할 만하지만, 첫 번째 단계로, 킨테츠부팔로는 이 불평에 대한 수용 가능한 답변을 게시하는 즉시 그 블록이 해제될 것이라는 경고로 즉시 무기한 차단된다.이는 과거에도 관심이 집중된 것으로 보인다.누가 알겠는가: 그러나 만약 반응이 받아들일 수 없는 행동을 완전히 받아들인다면, 주제 금지는 불필요하게 될 수 있다(그리고 나는 강조한다) (어쩌면 나는 그것을 의심하지만 선한 믿음은 선한 믿음이다)자신의 토크 페이지에 답변만 올릴 수 있기 때문에 누군가 여기에 카피하면 될 것 같은데, 이런 일이 일어날 것이라는 시각은 충분히 있는 것 같다.TheVicarsCat (talk) 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC) 12:22 [
- 나는 이 제안된 치료법에 대해 많은 생각을 해 왔다.UW 템플릿에는 균일하고 사려 깊은 메시지, 사용할 다음 수준의 메시지를 결정할 때 쉽게 식별할 수 있는 메시지 또는 블록이 적절한지 등 이점이 너무 많기 때문에, 나는 이것이 수정과 반대로 우리 모두가 겪는 해결책인지 궁금하다.(참조 템플릿을 사용하지 않도록 편집자를 저속적으로 제재하는 것과 그다지 다르지 않다.)이것은 위키피디아의 특징이라기보다는 주제다.킨테츠부팔로는 그것을 정확하게 사용해야 한다.결론은 우리가 킨테츠부팔로가 그의 사용자들의 대화 경고를 조작한 결과로 더 행복해질 것이라고는 상상할 수 없다는 것이다.말하자면, 대안은 본질적으로 그 행동이 계속되면 그가 차단될 것이라는 훈계이거나, 아니면 지금 차단될 것이라는 것이다.그런 옵션들을 따져보기 전에 더비카스캣이 킨테츠부펄로가 참여할 때까지 무기한 블록을 제안한 것은 매우 좋은 생각이라고 생각한다. --Bsherr (대화) 14:29, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 당신의 답변을 읽고 제안된 주제를 다시 읽는 것은 내가 그 문제를 적절하게 다루고 있지 않다고 믿게 한다.두 가지 금지 단어 모두 킨테츠부팔로가 (어느 수준이든) 템플화된 경고를 사용하는 것을 막을 뿐이지만, 그가 스스로 경고를 만들도록 요구한다.본질적으로 여전히 레벨 4 경고(또는 그 이상)인 다른 단어로 된 경고를 만드는 것은 금지되어 있지 않다.따라서 문제는 남아 있을 것이다.어떤 주제 금지가 필요한 치아와 위반이 발생하기 위한 매개변수를 결정하려면 이 불만사항에 대한 그의 대응이 필수적이다.TheVicarsCat (talk) 15:13, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그는 일종의 제재가 필요하다.나는 그것이 변명의 여지라도 상관하지 않는다.그는 잠재적으로 좋은 사용자들을 쫓아내고 있고, 그는 어떠한 안내문에도 대답하지 않는다. 그는 단지 그것들을 삭제한다.위키피디아는 협업과 의사소통, 그리고 다음의 정책과 지침을 필요로 한다.우리가 PAG를 소통하거나 따르지 않는 사람들을 다루는 표준적인 방법은 그들이 계속해서 그렇게 할 것이라는 것을 다른 사람들에게 전달하고 설득할 때까지 그들이 차단하는 것이고, 정책들과 지침들 그리고 새로운 규범들을 준수할 것이다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 16:08, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 반대한다. 이 시점에서 주제 금지는 보고된 문제를 예방할 수 있기 때문에 충분해 보인다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 2018년 10월 27일(UTC) 16:50[
- @Boing! 제베디가 말했다.위에서 제시한 이유로 이미 제공된 버전이 작동하지 않기 때문에 이 주제를 어떤 형태로 금지해야 하는가?TheVicarsCat (토크) 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC) :56[응답
- 내가 너희들한테 제재만 없애준다고 했잖아내 상금을 지금 받을 수 있을까?하나, 둘, 셋이서 나오는 인데버 블록...소프트라벤더 (대화) 23:51, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
편집기가 NOTHERE 및 Civil에 문제가 있음
IDHT와 예의범절 문제의 조합으로 무기한 차단됨.나는 IP를 오랫동안 하드 차단해 왔다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 14:10, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
65.60.240.178(토크 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 블록 사용자 • 블록 로그)은 나 자신과 다른 편집자가 지속적으로 삭제한 다음 우승자를 선정하기 전에 미인대회 기사에 불필요한 TBA 라인을 지속적으로 추가한다.그들은 다른 유용한 목적으로 위키피디아에 있는 것 같지 않다.그들은 이의를 제기하고 내 토크 페이지에 "항복원숭이를 먹는 이 치즈!내가 미인대회 타이틀홀더 리스트에 있는 것들을 삭제하는 것에 대해 뭐라고 말했지?넌 인종차별주의자인 어린 아기 말을 듣지 않았어.STAY OFF COLESTAL TITLE HORESS YORY!" [77] 및 같은 행을 따라 한 다른 논평 [78] 이 IP와 두 번째 IP에 의한 문제의 원본 패치 후에 그들은 새로운 사용자 이름인 "Cirolagurl"(토크 · 기여)을 만들고 그 사용자 이름 아래 문제 편집과 인신공격/위협을 계속하였다(같은 편집자임을 추가).[79] 그리고 이제 원래의 IP로 편집으로 돌아왔다.IP는 이러한 편집 패턴으로 인해 72시간 동안 차단되었지만, 그렇다고 해서 그들을 단념시키지는 못했다. 2018년 10월 27일 오즈의 CJ [a Kiwi] 06:02, (UTC)[
- 나는 가끔 그것을 주목할 수 없는 반칙으로 삭제하려고 할 때 많은 미인대회 관련 페이지를 본다.미인대회 우승자들은 다루기 힘들 수 있고, 그들의 취미에 매우 헌신적일 수 있다.IP를 계속 전환하면 변경 사항을 롤백하는 것이 가장 좋다.레거시pac (대화) 06:17, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- NOTHERE(계정은 중단적인 편집 및 위협에만 사용됨)와 같이 명명된 계정의 하드 블록 정의를 지원하십시오.그리고 같은 이유로, 그리고 지속적인 PA와 양말을 위해 가능한 한 오랫동안 IP의 블록.소프트라벤더 (대화) 06:59, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 고객에 대한 지원, IP의 장기 차단 - WP당:NOTHERE, WP:NPA, WP:괴롭힘 및 WP:SOCK.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 07:25, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 발의에 세 번째...무기한 차단. 토크 페이지 액세스도 추가하지 않겠다.--RAF910 (토크) 07:39, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 여기서 논의한 내용은 없지만 IP와 미인대회 구렐 사용자 이름으로 중단적인 편집을 계속하고 있다는 점에 유의하십시오.[80] [81] ... 2018년 10월 27일 오즈의 CJ [a Kiwi] 12:33 (UTC)[
- 위의 제안 중 하나 또는 두 가지를 모두 지지할 경우, 다른 제안이 세어지도록 여기에 굵은 글꼴로 된 표를 넣으십시오.소프트라벤더 (대화) 13:22, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 이런, 나도 무기한 투표에 참여하겠네... 2018년 10월 27일 오즈의 CJ [a Kiwi] (응답]
- 위의 제안 중 하나 또는 두 가지를 모두 지지할 경우, 다른 제안이 세어지도록 여기에 굵은 글꼴로 된 표를 넣으십시오.소프트라벤더 (대화) 13:22, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그들이 이러한 편집 패턴을 멈추고 다른 편집자들을 모욕하지 않는 것에 동의할 때까지 옹호 블록을 지지하라.그 요정 댓글은 특히 불안하다.(학교 시절엔 항상 그렇게 불려지는 걸 싫어한다) 이사이드노웨이(토크) 13:36, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 이전 코멘트에 따라 서포트 서약 블록.편집자는 그들이 ...을 멈추도록 하지 않고 멈출 것이라는 어떤 징후도 보여주지 않았다. 2018년 10월 27일 오즈 13:41 (UTC 의 CJ [a Kiwi]
편집기가 NOTHERE 및 Civil에 문제가 있음
IDHT와 예의범절 문제의 조합으로 무기한 차단됨.나는 IP를 오랫동안 하드 차단해 왔다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 14:10, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
65.60.240.178(토크 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 블록 사용자 • 블록 로그)은 나 자신과 다른 편집자가 지속적으로 삭제한 다음 우승자를 선정하기 전에 미인대회 기사에 불필요한 TBA 라인을 지속적으로 추가한다.그들은 다른 유용한 목적으로 위키피디아에 있는 것 같지 않다.그들은 이의를 제기하고 내 토크 페이지에 "항복원숭이를 먹는 이 치즈!내가 미인대회 타이틀홀더 리스트에 있는 것들을 삭제하는 것에 대해 뭐라고 말했지?넌 인종차별주의자인 어린 아기 말을 듣지 않았어.STAY OFF CONTEL TITLE HORESS YORY!" [82] 및 같은 행을 따라 한 다른 논평 [83] 이 IP와 두 번째 IP에 의한 문제의 원본 패치 후에 그들은 새로운 사용자 이름인 "Cirolagurl"(토크 · 기여)을 만들어 그 사용자 이름 아래 문제 편집과 인신공격/위협을 계속하였다(같은 편집자임을 추가).[84] 그리고 이제 원래의 IP로 편집으로 돌아왔다.IP는 이러한 편집 패턴으로 인해 72시간 동안 차단되었지만, 그렇다고 해서 그들을 단념시키지는 못했다. 2018년 10월 27일 오즈의 CJ [a Kiwi] 06:02, (UTC)[
- 나는 가끔 그것을 주목할 수 없는 반칙으로 삭제하려고 할 때 많은 미인대회 관련 페이지를 본다.미인대회 우승자들은 다루기 힘들 수 있고, 그들의 취미에 매우 헌신적일 수 있다.IP를 계속 전환하면 변경 사항을 롤백하는 것이 가장 좋다.레거시pac (대화) 06:17, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- NOTHERE(계정은 중단적인 편집 및 위협에만 사용됨)와 같이 명명된 계정의 하드 블록 정의를 지원하십시오.그리고 같은 이유로, 그리고 지속적인 PA와 양말을 위해 가능한 한 오랫동안 IP의 블록.소프트라벤더 (대화) 06:59, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 고객에 대한 지원, IP의 장기 차단 - WP당:NOTHERE, WP:NPA, WP:괴롭힘 및 WP:SOCK.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 07:25, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 발의에 세 번째...무기한 차단. 토크 페이지 액세스도 추가하지 않겠다.--RAF910 (토크) 07:39, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 여기서 논의한 내용은 없지만 IP와 미인대회 구렐 사용자 이름으로 중단적인 편집을 계속하고 있다는 점에 유의하십시오.[85] [86] ... 2018년 10월 27일 오즈의 CJ [a Kiwi] 12:33 (UTC)[
- 위의 제안 중 하나 또는 두 가지를 모두 지지할 경우, 다른 제안이 세어지도록 여기에 굵은 글꼴로 된 표를 넣으십시오.소프트라벤더 (대화) 13:22, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 이런, 나도 무기한 투표에 참여하겠네... 2018년 10월 27일 오즈의 CJ [a Kiwi] (응답]
- 위의 제안 중 하나 또는 두 가지를 모두 지지할 경우, 다른 제안이 세어지도록 여기에 굵은 글꼴로 된 표를 넣으십시오.소프트라벤더 (대화) 13:22, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그들이 이러한 편집 패턴을 멈추고 다른 편집자들을 모욕하지 않는 것에 동의할 때까지 옹호 블록을 지지하라.그 요정 댓글은 특히 불안하다.(학교 시절엔 항상 그렇게 불려지는 걸 싫어한다) 이사이드노웨이(토크) 13:36, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 이전 코멘트에 따라 서포트 서약 블록.편집자는 그들이 ...을 멈추도록 하지 않고 멈출 것이라는 어떤 징후도 보여주지 않았다. 2018년 10월 27일 오즈 13:41 (UTC 의 CJ [a Kiwi]
2401:7400:4001:2BEE:0:0:0:0:0/64
(비관리자 폐쇄) Mz7 -Abelmoschus Escanticus 11:47, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)에 의해 차단[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
파보니아의 마지막 블록이 만료되자마자 곧바로 나쁜 편집을 시작했고, 봇이 만들지 않은 마지막 블록은 2018년 10월 27일 08시 56분이었기 때문에 누군가는 이 범위를 빨리 차단해야 할 것이다.고마워요.instantmatrix (talk) 09:32, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ 하라
이집트 항공 990편에서 맥락을 벗어난 아크로테리온
이것은 내용상의 논쟁이다.편집 전쟁을 중지하고(차단될 경우) 기사의 토크 페이지에서 이 문제를 논의하고 WP:변경에 대한 합의.(비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 00:27, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이집트 항공 990편
(cur prev) 22:49, 2018년 10월 27일 Acroterion (토크 기여) . . (4만5,309바이트) (+2) . (역전 1 by 71.56.169.162 (토크):Rv - 내용에 실질적인 변경 없음. (TW) (실행 취소) (태그: 실행 취소)
(cur prev) 22:46, 2018년 10월 27일 (토크) 71.56.169.162 (talk) . (45,307바이트) (-2) . (의미 없는 재주문, 파괴적인 편집은 하지 말 것.결정을 위한 조치를 명시하는 NTSB 보고서의 내용과 일치하도록 컨텍스트를 편집하고 있다.개인적인 사정이 없는 한 수사보고서와 같은 맥락을 유지하지 않을 이유가 없다.) (undo) (태그 : Undo)
(cur prev) 22:32, 2018년 10월 27일 Acroterion (토크 기여) . . (4만5,309바이트) (+2) . (역전 1 by 71.56.169.162 (토크):Rv 무의미한 재주문 (TW) (undo) (Tag: Undo) (Tag: Undo)
(cur prev) 22:30, 2018년 10월 27일 (대화) 71.56.169.162 (대화) . (45,307바이트) (-2) . (보고서의 결론에 맞게 컨텍스트를 변경했다.컨텍스트 문제, 개인적인 이유로 컨텍스트에서 벗어나기 위해 편집하지 마십시오.) (실행 취소)
사용자 대화 페이지에 메시지를 남길 수 없음
— 71.56.169.162 (토크 • 기여) 2018-10-27T23:07:47 (UTC)이(가) 추가한 이전의 부호 없는 논평
- 기사토크 페이지에서 토론이 없는 내용 분쟁.게시물에 네 개의 틸트로 서명하십시오(~~~).이안.thomson (대화) 23:09, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 어쨌든 이 두 문장의 차이점은 도대체 무엇일까?[87. 블랙 카이트 (토크) 23:28, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 내가 상상할 수 있는 유일한 차이점은 어떤 결론도 도달하지 않았다는 것을 강조하고 싶은 것인지 아니면 조종사를 비난하려고 애쓰는 것인지 이다.하지만 나는 누군가에게 그것이 바로 그들이 그것을 바꾸는 이유라는 것을 인정하게 해야 할 것이고, 그 차이가 너무 약해서 솔직히 그 이유가 편집전쟁의 꽤 절박한 이유가 될 것이라고 말해야 할 것이다.이안.thomson (대화) 23:39, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[ 하라
델라웨어 95번 주간 고속도로에서 벌어진 추악한 편집 전쟁
IP는 bb23에 의해 61일 차단되었다.WP:RFP. 소프트라벤더 (토크) 00:04, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC) (비관리자 폐쇄)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
델라웨어의 95번 주간 고속도로에서 추악한 편집 전쟁이 벌어지고 있다.사용자 보고 중:편집전쟁에 가담한 카드84664, 하지만 나도 3RR이 깨졌다는 것을 인정하면서 내 스스로도 보고할 것이다.우리는 외부 중재자가 필요하다 - 아마도 공정하게 하기 위해 우리 둘 다 차단할지도 모른다. 24.34.85.169 (대화) 23:27, 2018년 10월 27 (UTC)[
- 업데이트: 이제 문제의 다른 사용자가 편집 전쟁을 계속하기 위해 로그아웃한 상태에서 편집하고 있는 것으로 보인다. 24.34.85.169 (대화) 23:37, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- (ec) 사용자가 인용과 함께 무능함을 보였으므로, WP에 통지서를 제출하는 중:이 요청이 있을 때 A3.구글 지도 내의 사용자 리뷰는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처로 간주되지 않는다.IP는 본질적으로 한 구절이 "모두가 그렇게 말한다"는 논리로 옳다고 말하는 주장을 한다.IP는 또한 여기에 보이는 것처럼 사용자 역량이 소스의 충분한 이유가 된다.IP도 여기에 나타난 바와 같이 경험이 풍부한 다른 편집자에 의해 이전에 되돌렸다.이 IP는 경고 수신 후 반복적으로 비워지는 그들의 토크 페이지에서 파손을 중지해 달라는 요청이 반복되어 차단을 요청한다.이런 종류의 편집은 위키피디아에 속하지 않는다.카드84664(토크) 23:40, 2018년 10월 27일(UTC)[
- 우선, 내 강연의 경고는 몇 달 전과는 전혀 다른 것이었다.또한 나는 여기서 가장 좋은 방법은 우리 둘 다 3RR 위반에 대해 차단하는 것이고, 로그아웃한 동안 편집하기 위한 카드84664를 차단하는 것이라고 생각한다.구글 리뷰 한 건은 믿을 수 없지만, 모두 같은 말을 하는 십여 건은 그 정보가 사실이라는 것을 분명히 밝히고 있다. 24.34.85.169 (대화) 23:44, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- (ec) 제2의견 핑 @Dough4872:카드84664 (대화) 23:46, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- (ec) 사용자가 인용과 함께 무능함을 보였으므로, WP에 통지서를 제출하는 중:이 요청이 있을 때 A3.구글 지도 내의 사용자 리뷰는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처로 간주되지 않는다.IP는 본질적으로 한 구절이 "모두가 그렇게 말한다"는 논리로 옳다고 말하는 주장을 한다.IP는 또한 여기에 보이는 것처럼 사용자 역량이 소스의 충분한 이유가 된다.IP도 여기에 나타난 바와 같이 경험이 풍부한 다른 편집자에 의해 이전에 되돌렸다.이 IP는 경고 수신 후 반복적으로 비워지는 그들의 토크 페이지에서 파손을 중지해 달라는 요청이 반복되어 차단을 요청한다.이런 종류의 편집은 위키피디아에 속하지 않는다.카드84664(토크) 23:40, 2018년 10월 27일(UTC)[
- 내가 만약 이것에 대한 관리 도구를 가지고 행동한다면 나의 중립성이 합법적으로 문제될 수 있다고 생각하지만, 그 정보는 정말로 속하지 않는다.그렇구나:Bbb23이 이미 IP를 차단했으니까 그게 최선의 해결책일 것 같아. --Rschen7754 23:49, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- IP가 델라웨어 기사의 95번 주간 고속도로에 계속 추가하는 정보는 구글 지도 리뷰에서 나왔다고 주장하지만, 비소싱적이며, 신뢰할 수 있는 소싱의 부족을 감안할 때 백과사전에 적합하지 않다.반죽4872 23:50, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- FreeKnowledgeCreator에 의해 RFPP에 반보호 요청이 접수되었다.이것을 보고 있는 관리자라면 누구든지 그것을 진행해서 아직 처리되지 않았다면 그렇게 할 수 있다.소프트라벤더 (토크) 00:01, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
IP 게시 "포트"
사용자 87.254.70.8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/87.254.70.8은 "실제" 이미지를 게시하는 광란의 도가니에 빠져 있다.로완 포레스트 (토크) 16:34, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 의견)IP는 RickinBaltimore에 의해 차단되었다.TedEdwards 16:39, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 우리 또한 모욕적인 편집을 RevDel 할 수 있을까?알타멜 (토크) 16:40, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 이미 누군가에 의해.---임블란터 (대화) 16:47, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 디플을 리비전하고 곧 삭제될 Commons 이미지 파일을 배드이미지 목록에 추가했다.라울654는 같은 일을 하면서 이전의 IP를 차단했다.나는 그들이 다른 IP를 얻으면 더 많은 시도를 할 것으로 예상한다.아크로테리온 (대화) 16:49, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 우리는 정말로 일반적인 용의자들의 공유지에서 업로드를 걸러내기 위해 이미지 리크 소프트웨어를 연구해야 한다.염소자리 이미지를 이용한 이런 정확한 형태의 반달리즘을 본 것은 이번이 처음이 아니다.ᛗᛁᛚᚾᚱᚱᚱantsants팬츠 다 말해줘. 2018년 10월 23일 16:50 (UTC)[
- 이미지를 삭제했는데, 이제 새로 업로드해야 할 것 같아.---임블란터 (대화) 16:52, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 디플을 리비전하고 곧 삭제될 Commons 이미지 파일을 배드이미지 목록에 추가했다.라울654는 같은 일을 하면서 이전의 IP를 차단했다.나는 그들이 다른 IP를 얻으면 더 많은 시도를 할 것으로 예상한다.아크로테리온 (대화) 16:49, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 이미 누군가에 의해.---임블란터 (대화) 16:47, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 우리 또한 모욕적인 편집을 RevDel 할 수 있을까?알타멜 (토크) 16:40, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
(비관리자 논평) @Ymblanter:, @RickinBaltimore: 그들은 현재 2018년 이일란 열차 탈선 사고에서 다른 이미지를 가지고 있었으므로 이미지를 삭제하고 기사를 보호하십시오(현재 사건이고 일부 ip는 선의의 편집을 할 수도 있다).user:matthew_hk 17:14, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 그들은 하원에 대한 새로운 계정을 만들었다.공용 사용자를 차단하고 이미지를 삭제할 수 있을까?알타멜 (토크) 17:16, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- 완료, 하원에 대한 관리자 도움이 더 필요한 경우 핑, 나 땡 땡, 나는 3시간 이상합리적으로 활동해야 한다. Ymblanter(대화)17:20, 2018년 10월 23일(CoordinatedUniversalTime)[응답].
- 나는 이 IP가 실제로 첩보원이며, 이렇게 함으로써 비밀 신호를 보내고, 페이지와 이미지는 오랫동안 자신들을 위해 해왔던 그들의 상관에 의해 "무작정"되었다고 상상하고 있다.그래서 지금 어디선가 젊은 CIA 담당자가 자기들의 현장 자산이 날아갔다는 것을 계속 알리려고 할 때 책상에 이마를 두드리지만 편집된 내용들은 계속 지워지고 있다.
- 머지않아, 그는 포기하고 책상 서랍에서 권총을 꺼내서 테크노 음악이 배경에서 연주되는 동안 걸어서 도시를 가로질러 뛰기 시작할 것이다. 그는 필사적으로 제시간에 그의 운영자를 찾기를 바란다.
- 마을 건너편에서 교환원은 할당된 WP 페이지 중 한 페이지를 캐시된 것으로 보고 있다. "그것이 '주의로 진행'된 버톨인가, 아니면 '당신의 커버가 날아간 것인가?"
- 한편, 그의 문 바로 밖에서, 거대한 깡통이 달린 22구경 권총을 들고 있는 어떤 외국인 교환원은 러시아어로 "버톨은 살아있어, 당장 움직여!"라고 그에게 말하는 그의 귀피스를 듣고 있다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 17:49, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
- @RickinBaltimore and ONUnicorn: 내 농담은 대부분 리드 풍선처럼 넘어가는 것 같아.이번 일로 누군가를 웃겨서 다행이야.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:34, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
![]() | 좋은 유머의 반스타 | |
그냥, 내가 별 모양 위에 겹쳐진 웃는 얼굴의 이미지로 그 특정한 논평에 대해 보상하고 있다는 사실을 너무 많이 읽지 말자; 우리는 지금 있는 그대로 적절한 위키 코멘토리의 선에 꽤 가까이 다가가고 있다.2018년 10월 23일 눈 23:55 (UTC)[ |
- @Acroterion: WP에 추가한 이미지:BL이 삭제되어 목록에서 삭제될 수 있다.이 반달족이 다시 돌아왔다는 소식을 들으니 유감이다.홈랜더(토크) 02:31, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 이어, 최근의 화신은 80.65.245.23(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)이었다.다시 한번, 만약 Commons에 대한 관리자 도움이 필요하다면 나를 비난해.30분 정도 있다가 30분 정도 있다가 30분 정도 있다가 다시 4시간 정도.---임블란터 (대화) 16:07, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC
- (비관리자 의견)열차 사고는 현재 사건이고, 유고슬라비아 어뢰정 T5는 오늘 특집 기사여서 1면에 등장하는 기사를 파손하는 것 같다.매튜 hk (토크) 16:11, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
영화 기사에서 반복되는 미개한 욕설
몇몇 사람들은 정말 좌절하고 있는 것 같다.Mohanlal v Mammootty 팬 전쟁은 한 발 앞서 갔고, 이제 위키피디아에서 이상한 버전의 팬 전쟁이 일어나고 있다.10월 13일부터, 한 IP(또는 IP)가 끈질기게 오디얀(업계에서 곧 개봉될 많은 기대를 모으고 있는 영화) 출연자 명단에서 모한랄의 이름을 편집하여 극도의 반어(영문으로 쓰여진 말라얄람)로 대체하려고 애쓰고 있었다.그렇지 않으면 편집이 덜 된 페이지, 그날 편집이 적어도 120건이나 되어 불경스러운 것을 더하기 위해 다투었다.
일부 IP는 다음과 같다.
- 2405:204:D105:E05F:EC1F:93DF:BBAB:3519 (14 편집) - 가장 파괴적인 (또한 Kayamkulam Kochunni 편집)
- 2405:204:D302:3DB1:D9AD:D0AA:A5B6:FE55 (3)
- 86.98.84.7 (1)
- 2405:204:D48B:93CF:346A:3D8C:26FE:8EF1(2)
- 2405:204:D308:7024:5208:43DF:5B9E:8A86(4)
- 137.97.155.163 (10) - 가장 파괴적인 (Mohanlal 정기 협력자 Antony Perumbavoor에서도)
- 49.15.207.246 (1)
- 42.111.228.116 (1)
- 78.100.162.226 (1)
- 2405:204:D401:C99:A711:D1EB:E234:868F(2)
- 2405:204:519E:B978:3F78:3C0A:베드비:40E8(2)
- 2405:204:D08B:9642:0:0:1E85:E8A1 (2)
- 43.239.55.13 (2)
- 2405:204:659A:E1A6:904D:6515:3C4D:FB90(2)
- 83.110.229.77 (1)
- 2405:204:D206:94C3:79CD:B692:225B:ED5A(1)
- 2405:204:D282:32E5:0:0:2480:B8A4(1)
- 45.125.117.2 (2)
마침내 그 페이지는 파괴적인 편집을 위해 보호되었다.오디얀을 파괴할 수 없게 되자 표적은 모한랄의 풀리무루간(상위권 마야랄람 영화)으로 옮겨갔다.
- 27.61.41.50 ([88, [89]) - 박스 오피스 데이터 파괴
- 27.97.28.205 ([90])
- 2405:204:D10E:F29C:2487:7A45:2113:988C([91]) - 불경스러운 행위
- 27.61.22.10 ([92]) - 불경스럽고 흥행 반달리즘
- 페이즘무함메드 ([93])
그 페이지는 곧 보호되었다.여기서 관찰하면 27.61.22.115와 페이즘수함메드는 동일한 편집요약으로 1분 간격으로 편집했다.Fayismuhammed, 그렇지 않으면 활동적이지 않은 사용자가 동시에 왔는가?제 말이 무슨 말인지 아시잖아요.그의 기여를 확인해 보면, 그것은 모두 흥행 반달리즘이며, 맘모티 영화(라자마니키암, 포키리 라자)에서 부풀려진 숫자를 더하고, 모한랄 영화(드라이시암, 풀리무루간)에서 감소시킨다.이곳 IP들이 사용하는 똑같은 음란한 말들이 오디얀에서도 목격되었으니 아마 같은 사람일 것이다.
그 후 다른 IP들은 Mammootty 영화에서도 똑같이 하면서 이 호의를 돌려주기 시작했다.그러나 오디얀과 풀리무루간에서의 반달행위에 비하면 덜 모호하다.10월 17일, Frz latheef는 21:29 UTC에서 유방 촬영 영화 [94]에서 그러한 편집을 했다.바로 1분 후, 이 IP는 많은 모한랄 영화에서 불경스러움을 더하며 야만적으로 변했다.Frz lathef의 편집 직후인 21:30 UTC부터 21:39 UTC까지였다.어쩌면 그의 보복일까?
페이지를 보호하고 선의의 편집자 또한 예방하는 대신에, 문제가 있는 IP/Users를 차단하는 것이 더 효과적일 것이다.결국, 얼마나 많은 페이지를 보호할 수 있는가.두 영화 모두 각각 300편 이상의 영화에 출연했다. 2405:204:D483:E219:BC9B:BFD2:524F:F1C1 (대화) 13:18, 2018년 10월 18일 (UTC)[
- 차단도 좀 해봤어.여기 편집 필터가 유용할 것 같은데, 요청하려고 해.제 토크 페이지에서 더 이상 어떤 문제가 있는지 알려주시겠습니까?고마워요.블랙 카이트 (토크) 15:09, 2018년 10월 18일 (UTC)[
- 다양한 IP 범위와 편집으로 볼 때, 편집 필터가 아마도 이 문제에 대한 최고의 해결책이 될 것이라는 블랙 카이트의 의견에 동의한다...~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 16:04, 2018년 10월 18일 (UTC)[
- 나도 동의해, 여기서 가장 엄격한 범위는 IPv6 /32인데, 차단하기에는 너무 커.유감스럽지만 이것이 우리가 반절제술을 하는 이유다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 19:15, 2018년 10월 18일 (UTC)[
- 나도 동의해; 반보호가 도움이 되겠지만, 더 이상의 혼란을 막고 다른 기사로 퍼지는 것을 막지는 않을 것이고, 우리는 본질적으로 우리가 그렇게 할 수 있다면 피할 수 있고 편리할 수 있는 "hack-a-mole"을 연주할 거야. :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)08:19, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 검은 연, 오스와, 이반벡터.왜 막지 않는 거야?오늘 그들은 Mohanlal의 곧 개봉될 영화 드라마 ([95], [96], [97], [98])와 루시퍼 (영화) ([99])에서 그것을 시작했다.이게 멈출 것 같아?레인지 블록을 적용하지 않는 한, 나는 그렇게 생각하지 않는다. 2405:204:D18A:ACC0:A859:7843:4744:8F26 (대화)08:26, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 개별 IP를 차단하는 것은 이미 위의 블랙 카이트가 지적한 바와 같이 적극적인 작업이었다.사용자가 사용할 수 있는 범위와 여기에 나열된 IP에서 계산한 것을 고려하면, 그들은 다른 IP에 접속하여 "평소처럼 비즈니스"를 계속할 수 있을 것이다.IPv6 범위(2405:204::/32)는 너무 넓어서 차단할 수 없으며 범위의 편집 기여에서 볼 수 있듯이 많은 부수적 피해를 초래할 수 있다.여기에 열거된 IPv4 주소는 모두 다른 범위에서 왔으며, 시도하고 추구해도 소용없을 것이다.나는 방금 네가 위의 답변에 열거한 두 가지 기사에 반보호제를 적용했어.현재와 다른 기사나 페이지에서 활발하게 일어나는 파괴적 편집이 계속되고 있는가?만약 그렇다면, 내가 볼 수 있도록 이 기사들과 페이지들을 여기에 나열해 줄 수 있겠니?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)08:49, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 단지 내가 IPv6 범위의 작은 부분집합을 차단했다는 것에 주목하기 위해, 왜냐하면 최근의 모든 기여가 이 주제에 관한 것으로 보이기 때문이다.하지만 오슈와가 말하길 IPv4는 모든 범위에 걸쳐 나타나고 있고 나는 그것들 중 중요한 부수적인 문제를 일으키지 않는 범위 블록을 볼 수 없다.세미 프로텍션 및/또는 편집 필터가 여기서 진행하는 주요 방법이다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 09:35, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- (편집: 42.109.136.x - 42.109.146.x 범위의 담보가 거의 없는 것으로 보여서 일시적으로 차단했다.)블랙 카이트 (토크) 09:39, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 유용한 범위 블록인 IP를 적용하는 것의 문제점은 IP도 차단할 수 있다는 것이다.그게 바로 "상호적" 문제야, 우리는 기술적으로 좋은 편집과 나쁜 편집을 구분할 수 없어.우린 최선을 다하고 있어이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 12:39, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 블랙 카이트의 "42.109.136.x - 42.109.146.x"의 블록은 CIDR 표기법으로 42.109.128.0/19로 번역되어 계산법을 모르는 사람들이 있다. ;-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 13:05, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 블랙 카이트, 오슈와, 지금은 네랄리 ([100], [101], [102] - 이 페이지는 10월 17일부터 파괴되고 있었다, 언급하는 것을 잊었다)와 자나타 차고[103], 또한 제목이 없는 K. V. 아난드 영화였다.차단 가능 여부 2405:204:D489:DA38:79C2:3D18:F628:DB52 (대화) 16:06, 2018년 10월 20일 (UTC)[
- 여기에 열거된 세 가지 기사에 모두 반보호 기능을 추가했고, 그것들에 대한 방해로 188.236.128.0/19를 차단했다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 17:01, 2018년 10월 20일 (UTC)[
- 블랙 카이트 & 오슈와, 그 사람은 이제 계정을 만들었다. 사용자:이틸루는 악당에서 모한랄을 학대하기 시작했다(2017년 영화), 1971: 비욘드 보더스, 벨리파딘트 푸스타캄.IPv6에서도 - 악당 [104], [105], 1971: Beyond Borders[106], [107].이제 페이이스무함메드가 바로 그 사람이라는 것이 명백해졌다. IPv6으로 여기서 모한랄을 남용하는 사용자들을 동시에 볼 수 있다.그것은 공공 기물 파손 전용 계정이며 차단되어야 한다.IP에 필요한 작업을 수행하십시오. 2405:204:D306:848F:F16B:4C84:1F6F:8D15 (대화) 06:22, 2018년 10월 23일 (UTC)[
- @Black Kite 및 Oshwah:, IP에 대한 회신———SerialNumber54129 10:07, 2018년 10월 23일(UTC)
- 하나 더:샤질_369.2405:204:D286:3C77:ECD7:174:E1ED:4AA6 (대화) 07:32, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 여기에 열거된 세 가지 기사에 모두 반보호 기능을 추가했고, 그것들에 대한 방해로 188.236.128.0/19를 차단했다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 17:01, 2018년 10월 20일 (UTC)[
- 블랙 카이트, 오슈와, 지금은 네랄리 ([100], [101], [102] - 이 페이지는 10월 17일부터 파괴되고 있었다, 언급하는 것을 잊었다)와 자나타 차고[103], 또한 제목이 없는 K. V. 아난드 영화였다.차단 가능 여부 2405:204:D489:DA38:79C2:3D18:F628:DB52 (대화) 16:06, 2018년 10월 20일 (UTC)[
- (편집: 42.109.136.x - 42.109.146.x 범위의 담보가 거의 없는 것으로 보여서 일시적으로 차단했다.)블랙 카이트 (토크) 09:39, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 단지 내가 IPv6 범위의 작은 부분집합을 차단했다는 것에 주목하기 위해, 왜냐하면 최근의 모든 기여가 이 주제에 관한 것으로 보이기 때문이다.하지만 오슈와가 말하길 IPv4는 모든 범위에 걸쳐 나타나고 있고 나는 그것들 중 중요한 부수적인 문제를 일으키지 않는 범위 블록을 볼 수 없다.세미 프로텍션 및/또는 편집 필터가 여기서 진행하는 주요 방법이다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 09:35, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 개별 IP를 차단하는 것은 이미 위의 블랙 카이트가 지적한 바와 같이 적극적인 작업이었다.사용자가 사용할 수 있는 범위와 여기에 나열된 IP에서 계산한 것을 고려하면, 그들은 다른 IP에 접속하여 "평소처럼 비즈니스"를 계속할 수 있을 것이다.IPv6 범위(2405:204::/32)는 너무 넓어서 차단할 수 없으며 범위의 편집 기여에서 볼 수 있듯이 많은 부수적 피해를 초래할 수 있다.여기에 열거된 IPv4 주소는 모두 다른 범위에서 왔으며, 시도하고 추구해도 소용없을 것이다.나는 방금 네가 위의 답변에 열거한 두 가지 기사에 반보호제를 적용했어.현재와 다른 기사나 페이지에서 활발하게 일어나는 파괴적 편집이 계속되고 있는가?만약 그렇다면, 내가 볼 수 있도록 이 기사들과 페이지들을 여기에 나열해 줄 수 있겠니?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)08:49, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 검은 연, 오스와, 이반벡터.왜 막지 않는 거야?오늘 그들은 Mohanlal의 곧 개봉될 영화 드라마 ([95], [96], [97], [98])와 루시퍼 (영화) ([99])에서 그것을 시작했다.이게 멈출 것 같아?레인지 블록을 적용하지 않는 한, 나는 그렇게 생각하지 않는다. 2405:204:D18A:ACC0:A859:7843:4744:8F26 (대화)08:26, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 나도 동의해; 반보호가 도움이 되겠지만, 더 이상의 혼란을 막고 다른 기사로 퍼지는 것을 막지는 않을 것이고, 우리는 본질적으로 우리가 그렇게 할 수 있다면 피할 수 있고 편리할 수 있는 "hack-a-mole"을 연주할 거야. :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)08:19, 2018년 10월 19일 (UTC)[
- 나도 동의해, 여기서 가장 엄격한 범위는 IPv6 /32인데, 차단하기에는 너무 커.유감스럽지만 이것이 우리가 반절제술을 하는 이유다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 19:15, 2018년 10월 18일 (UTC)[
- 다양한 IP 범위와 편집으로 볼 때, 편집 필터가 아마도 이 문제에 대한 최고의 해결책이 될 것이라는 블랙 카이트의 의견에 동의한다...~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 16:04, 2018년 10월 18일 (UTC)[
사용자:2A02:C7D:B910:3D00:D16C:D88C:E83D:7B31
올해 7월 29일 (그 날에만) 2A02:C7D:B910:3D00:D16C:D88C:E83D:7B31(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)은 모두 병합과 관련된 다수의 편집을 하였다.그들 대다수는 어느 시점에 합병 후보로 지명된 기사들(대부분 예외 없이 이러한 제안들이 대화 페이지에 문서화되지 않았거나 그 후 후속 논의가 이루어지지 않은 경우)을 재연결하고 목적지 기사의 태그에서 병합-을 삭제하는 것으로, 이 모든 것이 실제로 어떤 내용도 병합하지 않고 있었다.
현재 RfD에서 논의되고 있는 Qaaum(이 문제를 알게 된 경위)을 제외하고, 합병에 대한 편견 없이 기사를 복원하여 그들이 만든 모든 난장판을 지금 정리했다고 생각하지만, 그 혼용에 유용한 편집이 몇 가지 있었으므로 다른 사람도 한번 봐주면 고맙겠다.(예: 수개월 전에 반대 의견을 받았으나 지원이 없었던 후보에서 병합 태그를 제거하는 것).또한 IPv6 범위를 이해하고 있는 사람이 유사한 IP에 의해 유사한 편집이 이루어졌는지 살펴보는 것도 유용할 것이다. 위키피디아에 새로 들어온 사람이 하루에 다시는 볼 수 없는 행동을 하는 것은 매우 이상해 보이기 때문이다.Thryduulf (대화) 13:45, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[ 하라
- ps: 7월 이후 편집하지 않은 IP의 토크 페이지에 남겨진 어떤 메시지도 관련 인류가 볼 가능성이 거의 없어 보이기 때문에 나는 통지를 남기지 않았다.Thryduulf (대화) 13:46, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[ 하라
- (비관리자 의견) ip가 부실했다(7월 마지막 편집).그러한 합병에 대해 논란이 있을 경우, 다시 되돌리십시오.범위를 찾기 위해 초고속 범위는 who is (Sky Broadband) 2a02:c7d:::/32(talk · 기여 · WHOIS)이다.기여도를 보고 범위를 좁힌 다음 {{}}를 사용하면 된다.IP 범위 계산기}}.매슈_hktc 13:50, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 말하기 싫지만 사용자가 2A02:C7D로 2일 전과 같은 상황에 처해 있다.B910:3D00:0:0:0:0:0/64(블록 범위 ·블록 로그(글로벌) ·WHOIS(부분적)) 때문에 아직 할 일이 남아 있을 수 있다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 17:21, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 내가 하루 종일 엉망진창인 것을 치우는 데 한 시간 정도 걸렸다는 것을 고려하면, 이것은 나뿐만 아니라 더 많은 시간을 필요로 할 것이다.특히 지금 볼 시간이 없어서.트리듀울프 (대화) 17:37, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 그들의 마지막 50으로 미루어 볼 때, 나는 그들이 이제 단지 오래된 병합 태그를 제거하고 있다고 생각하는데, 적어도 한 경우에서 그들은 실제로 합병을 수행했다.그들이 해야 할 일을 배웠다고 해도 무방할 것 같지만, 트리듀울프처럼 나는 자세히 확인할 시간이 없다(그리고 편집이 많다).나는 이 토론에 대한 그들의 의견을 듣고 이상적으로 대화를 통해 그들이 합병을 제대로 수행하고 있다는 것을 확인하고 싶다. 그리고 나는 그들의 가장 최근의 IP로 그들을 ping할 것이다. 그러나 그들은 IPv6로 ping이 잘 작동하지 않고 지금 거의 8시간 동안 유휴 상태에 있다. 그들은 다시 편집하러 올 때쯤 새로운 이산 IP를 갖게 될 것이다.다른 사용자들의 도움을 받아 특히 06:00-12:00 UTC의 범위를 주시할 수 있으며, 만약 당신이 그들이 활동적인 것을 본다면, 그들의 현재 IP의 토크 페이지에 이 토론을 참조하거나 나의 토크 페이지를 참조하는 메모를 남겨주십시오.여기서 '관심 유발' 범위 블록을 사용하지 않는 게 좋겠지만, 그건 선택 사항이야.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 14:18, 2018년 10월 25일 (UTC)[
- 내가 하루 종일 엉망진창인 것을 치우는 데 한 시간 정도 걸렸다는 것을 고려하면, 이것은 나뿐만 아니라 더 많은 시간을 필요로 할 것이다.특히 지금 볼 시간이 없어서.트리듀울프 (대화) 17:37, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 말하기 싫지만 사용자가 2A02:C7D로 2일 전과 같은 상황에 처해 있다.B910:3D00:0:0:0:0:0/64(블록 범위 ·블록 로그(글로벌) ·WHOIS(부분적)) 때문에 아직 할 일이 남아 있을 수 있다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 17:21, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
정리 부탁한다.
모두 완료 -Abelmoschus Escanticus 07:32, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
위키백과에서:참조 데스크/언어(토크 내역 링크 감시 로그 편집).05:05, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)
- 내 토크 페이지에도.-Abelmoschus Escanticus 05:06, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
사용자 14.200.91.233
실행 불가.(비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 04:30, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 사용자는 위키피디아를 파괴했다.그들은 또한 위키피디아에 대한 법적 조치를 위협했다. (이것에서 '빈 치킨 저중요'를 참조하라; [108]나는 또한 이것이 저작권이 있는 자료에 대한 링크를 포함하고 있는지 확신할 수 없다.그들의 토크 페이지(여기;https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:14.200.91.233))에서 그들은 나를 모욕하고 인신공격했다.예를 들어, 그는 내가 이해력이 부족하고 '너 같은 사람들이 그냥 쓰레기 불쏘시개로 바꾸었다'고 말했다.그리고 나서 그들은 ME에게 사과하라고 했다.이 페이지에서 닉-D는 그에게 파괴적인 편집을 중단하라고 요구했고 '카발 프렌즈'에게만 위키백과의 편집을 허용했다는 비난을 받았다.이 페이지에서 2017년 9월 하순에 야스민 압델마지에드[109]에 대한 인신공격에 대한 최종 경고를 받았다.그는 또한 자신의 토크 페이지에서 Jytdog에게 그들이 더 많은 사람들을 불구로 만들고 삶의 질을 파괴하도록 도왔다고 말했다.네가 주는 대로 받기를 바라.Jytdog가 편집한 페이지가 재량적 제재에 처했다고 말한 후 이것은 그의 나쁜 행동 때문이 아님을 분명히 했다.
Qwerty number1 (talk) 20:59, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 그는 한 조류 트위터 계정이 그 조류 종이 위키피디아에 "낮은 중요성"으로 분류되었기 때문에 소송을 제기할지도 모른다고 말했고, 그는 스스로 법적 조치를 취하겠다고 위협하지 않았다.나는 다른 문제들에 대해 잘 모르지만 그것은 분명히 농담이었다. 왜냐하면 동물들은 아무도 고소할 수 없기 때문이다.2601:1C0:5A01:4302:D556:B44C:37A:BF97 (대화) 21:23, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
그들은 페이지에 경고를 받았다.However, if you want more examples, on their talk page, I was called by them a 'nuisance' told I am doing 'childish antics', told I was 'aggressive ',that I had 'rudely threatened blocks ', but I think that this was the first time 'block' had appeared on the page, saying I am a 'hypocrite', I 'knew nothing about copyright ', told me that I had no유머감각과 나는 위키백과의 환경을 돕지 않았다.나는 또한 명예훼손, 명예훼손, 공공기물 파손 등의 혐의로 고발되었다.나는 비성격적인 댓글을 단 후 적어도 한 번은 '가라'는 말을 들었다.Qwerty number1 (talk) 21:26, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
어디에도, 실제로 트위터 계정이 그것을 고소할 것이라고는 말하지 않는다.어떤 면에서는, 누군가가 '누군가가 당신을 때릴 거라고 장담한다'고 말한다면, '하지만 그들은 분명히 그것을 할 수 없었다'거나 '그들이 그것을 하겠다고 위협하고 있었다는 것을 어떻게 아는가?'라고 말하는 것과 같을 것이다.Qwerty number1 (talk) 21:30, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- @Qwerty number1:14.200.IP 주소는 1년 넘게 야스민 압델마지드와 관련된 편집이나 Jytdog와 교차한 경로를 거치지 않았다.그 페이지들을 편집하던 사람은 심지어 같은 사람이 아닐 수도 있다.그러한 영역에서 IP에 의해 수행되는 모든 조치는 케케묵은 것 이상이며 관련성이 없다.
- 당신이 연결하려고 했던 IP의 보다 관련성 있는 편집은 새가 고소할 것이라는 농담을 하는 것을 보여준다.다른 심각한 점을 지적하는 농담은 공공 기물 파손이 아니다.IP 편집자로부터도 선의로 행동하십시오.
- 콘텐츠 분쟁과 관련하여 IP가 옳다고(또는 그르다고) 말하는 것은 아니지만, 나는 당신이 몰골로 산을 만들고 있으며 이것을 침착하게 다룰 수 있을 때까지 물러설 필요가 있다고 말할 것이다.이안.thomson (대화) 23:33, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
편집 전쟁을 추구하는 반달리즘
사용자와 IP가 차단됨.(비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 03:57, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
여기 봐.이 편집자는 '세스 리치 살인'에서 역전을 당한 것에 대한 대응으로 내 사용자 페이지([110] & [111])를 방어하고 있다.그들이 전쟁을 편집하고 있는 것 또한 주목할 필요가 있다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it.02:44, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 주: 편집자는 여기, 여기, 여기, 여기에 경고를 받았다. (그 후 모든 것은 비어 있다.)기물 파손에 대한 경고도 했지만, 그러고 나서 이런 짓을 할 사람을 설득해 대신 이곳에 온 것이 낫다고 생각했다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it.02:47, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 사용자 "ᛗᛁᛚᚾᛁᚱᚱᚱPants"는 편집 로그에서 증명된 바와 같이 출처를 읽지 않았다.
- 그는 편집 로그에서 증명된 바와 같이 문제의 섹션에 대한 잘못된 출처를 언급했다.
- 내가 그의 정당한 게으름을 피우지 않았다고 그를 불렀을 때, 그는 그가 분명히 시작한 편집 전쟁이라고 나를 비난하면서 더 높은 권위와 교전했다. (편집 기록 참조)
- 그는 이미 장황한 논의를 하고 있는 편집/원론 연구의 오류를 시정하지 않는 것을 방어하기 위해 논리적인 오류를 의도적으로 이용하여 불신론적인 논쟁을 벌인다.이 기사의 토크 페이지에서 증명된다.— Neuroelectronic이 추가한 사전 서명되지 않은 설명(대화 • 기여)
그러니 다시 되돌리도록 해, 논리적으로나는 상관하지 않지만 분명히 당신이 이런 편집자들을 참고 그들이 분명히 선동한 그들의 행동을 옹호할 것이라면 나는 여기서 환영받지 못한다.@Neuro전자:
- @Neuro전자:네가 대담한 편집을 했고, 그들은 되돌아갔다.뒤이어 일어난 반전의 교환 이외에는, 다른 사용자의 행동에서 아무런 언행도 보이지 않는다.이 스레드는 당신의 행동에 관한 것이다. 특히, 당신의 후속 복귀와 다른 사용자의 사용자 페이지 방어에 관한 것이다.—C.Fred (대화) 03:12, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
그래, 무슨 일인지 알겠어.시간 내줘서 고마워.— 108.11.207.204가 추가한 이전의 부호 없는 의견(토크 • 기여)
The intent to start an edit war is clearly on ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants.누구를 속이고 있다고 생각하는지 모르겠어.
또한 정확한 편집 반달리즘이라고 부르는 것은 투명할 뿐이다.— 108.11.207.204가 추가한 이전의 부호 없는 의견(토크 • 기여)
75.91.226.53
사용자가 차단됨(관리자가 아닌 폐쇄).—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 07:31, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
피츠버그 유대교 회당 촬영 기사에 작은 편집전에 돌입한 실수를 저질렀지만, 이 IP의 일부 편집 내용을 보면 절대적으로 미개한 것이다. --Walk like a Segate (토크) 06:19, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
IP 및 애논 사용자로부터 보호되는 문서를 편집할 수 없지만 등록된 사용자임
Village Pump에서 해결됨.— Xaosflux 17:02, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕, -Abelmoschus Escanticus 위키백과:편집자 보조/요청서에 내 요청을 게시할 수 있는 장소가 여기가 맞다고 하더라.이 URL의 세부 정보! [112]
방금 내가 "ANI"에 "Bodwichy (bull)"를 위해 게시하도록 안내한 관리자와 이 대화를 보십시오.게시판 지역에 왔을 때, 어떤 게시판에 게시해야 할지 잘 모르겠어.[113] 해당 사안은 관리자의 토크 페이지에서 명확하게 설명된다.그러나 IP 사용자가 임시로 편집하지 못하도록 보호했던 기사는 편집할 수 없다는 것이 주제다.나는 로그인이 있어서 그것을 편집할 수 있을 것이다.고마워!잠자리에 들지만 나에게 해결되길 바란다. 동틀린(talk) 06:15, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 이상해, 기사는 반비보호되어 있고, 당신은 확장된 확정 사용자니까, 당신은 그것을 편집할 수 있을 거야.위키피디아에 게시할 것을 제안한다.여기 대신 마을 펌프(기술) 173.228.123.166 (토크) 08:16, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
파이어플라이팬보이
막혔어. 군중토크 08:50, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
대화에서의 비활용성 및 이름 부르기:포브스 추진 후 앤서니 부르데인.편집은 여기서 나쁜 행동의 패턴을 가지고 있는 것으로 보인다.†바실로사우루스과 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC 00:11,
- 1주일 길이의 블록을 보고 싶은데, 이전 편집 전쟁 블록과는 무관하지만, 사용자가 자신의 토크 페이지에 있는 수많은 경고에서 보듯이 예의에 문제가 있는 것이 분명하다. --Tarage (토크) 00:24, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 누군가 나한테 부탁한 걸 무시한 거지?나는 사용자들이 건설적이지 않은 상황에서 냉정을 잃었다는 것을 인정한다.꼭 막아야 하나?Fireflyfanboy (talk) 00:37, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 내가 관여하고 있다.패턴이 좋지 않고 편집자는 확실히 인내심이 없다.일반적으로, 나는 그런 상황에서 더 많은 로프를 연주하는 것을 선호한다.블록이 있으면 간단히 하거나 대신 TBAN을 고려하거나 경고와 함께 송어만 보내라.하지만 나는 나쁜 결말을 예상한다.O3000 (토크) 00:39, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 인용문을 포함시킬 또 다른 이유를 요청했고, 나는 그것을 계속 이어갔다.내가 정중하게 답변을 요청했는데, 당신은 그것을 무시하고 내가 합의 없이 인용문을 추가하면 어떻게 될 것인가로 주제를 바꿨다.내가 왜 냉정을 잃었는지 이해할 수 없니?넌 내가 말하는 요점조차 고려하지 않고 나를 모욕했어!Fireflyfanboy (talk) 00:42, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나는 불평을 하지 않았고 관용을 베풀어 달라고 부탁했다.WP를 기반으로 편집:컨센서스.당신은 내가 지적한 목표를 향해 나아가는 것이 아니었다.만약 당신이 "멋진"을 그렇게 쉽게 잃어버렸다면, 당신은 논란이 적은 기사들을 편집해야 할지도 모른다.나는 당신이 단지 미래에 더 예의 바르고 합의의 개념을 이해하겠다고 말하길 제안한다.지옥, 그렇게 해, 그리고 작전국의 허락을 얻어, 내가 직접 이 서류를 닫을게.O3000 (토크) 00:56, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 내가 원하는 것은 단지 내 요점을 위해서였어. 다시 말하지만, 네가 요청했던, 토론의 일부로 고려되길 원했지.나는 토론에 덧붙이려 했고, 단지 내 요점이 당신을 포함한 모든 당사자들로부터 제대로 고려되기를 바랐다.나는 컨센서스의 개념을 이해하고 있고, 그것이 내가 적절한 신빙성을 부여받기를 원했던 이유였고, 앞으로 더 양심적이 되도록 노력할 것이다.Fireflyfanboy (talk) 01:01, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 너희들이 옳다고 생각하는 건 뭐든지 해, 그냥 보고하고 싶었어.†바실로사우루스과 2018년 10월 26일 01:31, Talk (UTC)[
- '반딧불이 팬보이' 기사 토크페이지의 실마리를 읽어보면, 사람들이 당신의 주장을 신중히 고려할 수 있지만 여전히 동의하지 않는지 잘 모르겠다.적어도 자기 주장이 제대로 신빙성을 주지 못했다는 주장을 하고 있다면. zchrykng (대화) 02:35, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 내가 원하는 것은 단지 내 요점을 위해서였어. 다시 말하지만, 네가 요청했던, 토론의 일부로 고려되길 원했지.나는 토론에 덧붙이려 했고, 단지 내 요점이 당신을 포함한 모든 당사자들로부터 제대로 고려되기를 바랐다.나는 컨센서스의 개념을 이해하고 있고, 그것이 내가 적절한 신빙성을 부여받기를 원했던 이유였고, 앞으로 더 양심적이 되도록 노력할 것이다.Fireflyfanboy (talk) 01:01, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나는 불평을 하지 않았고 관용을 베풀어 달라고 부탁했다.WP를 기반으로 편집:컨센서스.당신은 내가 지적한 목표를 향해 나아가는 것이 아니었다.만약 당신이 "멋진"을 그렇게 쉽게 잃어버렸다면, 당신은 논란이 적은 기사들을 편집해야 할지도 모른다.나는 당신이 단지 미래에 더 예의 바르고 합의의 개념을 이해하겠다고 말하길 제안한다.지옥, 그렇게 해, 그리고 작전국의 허락을 얻어, 내가 직접 이 서류를 닫을게.O3000 (토크) 00:56, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 인용문을 포함시킬 또 다른 이유를 요청했고, 나는 그것을 계속 이어갔다.내가 정중하게 답변을 요청했는데, 당신은 그것을 무시하고 내가 합의 없이 인용문을 추가하면 어떻게 될 것인가로 주제를 바꿨다.내가 왜 냉정을 잃었는지 이해할 수 없니?넌 내가 말하는 요점조차 고려하지 않고 나를 모욕했어!Fireflyfanboy (talk) 00:42, 2018년 10월 26일 (UTC)[
- @Fireflyfanboy:이것은 당신이 좌절하고 냉정을 잃었기 때문만은 아니다.그 토크 페이지와 기사에 실린 당신의 행동은 파괴적이고, 건방지고, POINTY, 전투적인 미개하고, 비합리적이다.솔직히 말해서, 넌 이치에 맞지 않는 것 같아.이는 '[트럼프]는 [부르데인]과 아무런 연고가 없기 때문에 역전된 트럼프의 반응을 당신이 다시 덧붙였기 때문이다.[114] 그런 다음 "의전서에 [대통령들의 반응을 보고한다]고 명시되어 있다"는 잘못된 주장을 폈다.[115] 토크 페이지에서 당신은 WP에 의존했다.기타 CRAP의 주장, 그리고 그 근거는 타당하지 않다는 지적이 있었지만, 반대는 그 이상으로 확대되었다.칼튼은 즉각적으로 오바마의 주제와 관련성이 트럼프와 다르며, 두 가지 내용을 모두 '전부 아니면 무'로 얼버무리고 싶은 당신의 욕구가 '말도 안 되는 접근'이라고 지적하며, 그 접근법을 '무심한 what aboutism'이라고 불렀다.당신이 어떤 종류의 노력을 기울이며 그 요점을 이해하려고 노력한다는 것을 보여주기 보다는, 당신은 단지 "상관없는 것을 인용하고 나에게 의견 일치를 보지 않고 호민관 공격을 사용한 것에 대해 감사하다"는 기괴하고 분리된 진술을 했다.이어 RfC를 통해 제안을 할 수 있다는 지적이 나왔지만, 그렇게 하기보다는 요약 편집과 대화 페이지에서 동시에 제공되는 접근방식에 대한 구체적인 반대에도 불구하고 개인적 선호인 '전부 또는 무(all or nothing)' 접근법에 근거해 오바마 제거에 대한 전쟁을 진행했다는 것이다.독자 분은 (명백하게) 설득력이 없는 정당으로부터 독자 분이 파괴적인 행동을 하고 있다는 말을 들었으며, 독자 분은 편집자들이 동의할지 동의하지 않을지를 결정하는 데 트럼프를 포함시키는 설득력 있고 논리적인 주장을 내놓으라는 지시를 받았다.그리고 나서 당신은 이미 했다고 주장했고, 당신의 요점은 그저 무시당하고 있었다(실제로, 당신은 다른 의견을 인정하지 않는 사람이었다).당신은 인신공격에 대해 사과한 다음 즉시 다른 인신공격("그가 시작했다")을 하기 위해 진행하였다.O3000은 상당히 중립적인 논평을 냈지만, 당신의 편집에 반대하는 절차상의 이유를 충분히 늘어놓았고, 그는 의견조차 없었으며, 당신의 '새로운 주장'이 본질적으로 "그냥 징그럽다"고 요약한 '다른 기사' 접근법보다 더 설득력 있는 주장을 보고 싶다고 말했다.대수롭지 않은"그것을 뒷받침할 것은 아무것도 없고, 다만 이미 처음부터 함축되어 있던 당신의 의견만.새로운 정보나 설득력 있는 근거 없음.넌 그냥 그게 중요하다고 생각하잖아.그리고, 강력한 의견조차 없고, 말 그대로 좋은 주장을 보고자 했던 이 유저가 이 믿을 수 없을 정도로 얕은 반론에 납득이 가지 않고, 이미 반대했던 이유를 다시 소개했을 때, 당신은 호전적이 되어 그들을 다시 개인적으로 공격해, 그들이 '제알롯'이라고 주장하였다.콘텐츠 분쟁에 중립적인 사용자.나는 당신의 토크 페이지가 이 사이트의 "제알롯"에 대한 일반적인 혐오를 선언하고 있다는 것을 주목한다. 그것은 흥미롭다.만약 그 사용자가 당신의 사용자 페이지가 언급하는 것의 예라면, 그것은 당신이 사소한 선의의 내용 논쟁에서, 심지어 그들이 완벽하게 합리적이고 있는 상황에서도, 당신의 상대를 무효로 만드는 경향이 있다는 것을 말해주고, 그것에 대해 호명되면, 당신은 그들을 파괴적인 행동이라고 거짓으로 비난함으로써 당신의 상대를 비난할 것이다.제안된 1주 블록의 영역에는 쉽게 들어가 있다고 생각하지만, 내가 지금 여기서 보고 있는 전반적인 행태에 비추어 볼 때, 나는 당신이 그것에 대해 합리적으로 반응할 것이라고 확신할 수 없다.그래서 무기한 차단하고 있다.이것은 드라코니안, 가혹하거나 긴 블록을 의미하지 않는다.네가 원하는 만큼 짧을 수 있어.하지만, 여러분은 실제로 여러분의 행동의 문제를 해결하고, 여러분이 무엇이 문제인지, 그리고 그것들을 해결하기 위해 무엇을 해야 하는지를 우리에게 보여주어야 할 것이다.적절한 미차단 요청을 제출하면 지체 없이 차단을 해제할 수 있지만, 이것은 협업 프로젝트로서, 협력하고 분쟁을 해결하는 데 필요한 역량을 선의로 발휘하지 못하고 있다. 군중토크 08:37, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
레이드 블랙풀은 미개하고 여기에 없다.
막혔어. 군집토크 09:31, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
- Lad Blackpool (토크 · 기여)
그들은 나를 공공 기물 파손 혐의로 두 번이나 고발했다.두 번 모두 그들이 복원한 내용을 삭제한 것은 내가 아니었기 때문에 편집 이력을 잘못 읽은 것이다(자비로운 설명이다).[116][117]
그리고 지금 그들은 그들의 토크 페이지에서 나를 반달이라고 부르고 있으며, 나를 "트랜잭션 권리 운동가"라는 뜻의 TRA라고 부르고 있는데, TERF는 자신들과 의견이 다른 사람들을 묘사하기 위해 사용하는 용어다.[118]
나는 이미 그들에게 WP가 되어달라고 부탁했다.첫 번째 근거 없는 비난 이후 Civil, 그리고 이제 그들은 여기서 그들의 목적이 위키피디아를 협력적으로 편집하는 것이 아니라 그들이 그들의 이념 적으로 생각하는 사람들에게 적대적인 것임을 보여주었다. --ChiveFungi (대화) 17:55, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 기사의 마지막 편집이 10월 20일이었던 것 같은데, 레이드 블랙풀은 의제를 가지고 편집에 뛰어든 새로운 사용자다.여기서 편집자들이 더 관대하고 예의 바르게 행동할 수 없다는 것은 부끄러운 일이다. 이사이드노웨이 (대화)20:29, 2018년 10월 27일 (UTC)[
- 여기에 사용자 링크를 실 상단에 추가했다.편집이 중단된 것 같다; 계속 진행된다면, 그냥 되돌린 다음 편집 전쟁에 대해 경고하고 새로이 보고하는 것이 가장 좋을 것이다.그들의 편집 중 일부는 실제로 부분적인 장점이 있을 수 있으며, 토론은 기사의 토크 페이지에서 이루어져야 한다.만약 학대가 계속되면 여기로 다시 신고해소프트라벤더 (대화) 04:27, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 좋아, 이 사용자는 방어막을 쳐야 해그는 의제를 추구하고, 다른 사람들을 공격하고, 방해적으로 편집하고, 다른 사람들의 의사소통에도 불구하고 자신의 행동을 의도적으로 반복하고 있다.확실히 그리고 구제할 수 없는 WP:NOTHERE. -- 소프트라벤더 (대화) 23:31, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 사용자의 또 다른 무례한 행동의 예인 이 메시지를 내 토크 페이지에서 받았다.그것은 마치 그들이 매우 정치적인 성격의 특정한 의제를 추진하는 것처럼 보인다.기사와 관련이 없는 정보의 제거와 출처 없이 정보를 제거하는 것은 위키피디아의 기본이다.이 사용자는 이것을 이해하지 못하는 것 같다.가능하다면 내 토크 페이지도 삭제했으면 좋겠는데, 그게 가능한지 잘 모르겠어. 91.110.126.37 (토크) 00:23, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 편집은 이 페이지와 이력과 관련이 있다. 91.110.126.37 (토크) 00:28, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 위의 모든 것에 대한 변명이 막혀있어, 명백한 NOTHERE 사례처럼 보인다. 군중토크 09:28, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
무례하고 충돌적인 사용자:미스틱 테크노크라트
사람들은 예의 바르게 행동하고 선의를 가지며, 의견보다는 기사 내용에 대한 모든 토론이나 편집에 대해 계속 토론해 주길 바란다.(비관리자 폐쇄) 소프트라벤더 (대화) 04:14, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 이 유저와 편집하고 대화하는데 참여했고 그들은 그들의 모든 이슈와 의사소통에 극도로 무례하고 갈등적인 태도를 취한다.관리자 검토 요청 및/또는 사용자에게 경고그들의 행동 중 일부는 편집 전쟁과도 접하고 있다.— Sirsentence에 의해 추가된 이전의 서명되지 않은 의견(토크 • 기여) 2018-10-24T20:37:16 (UTC)
- (비관리자 의견) 여기서 싸우는 보고서 편집: 위키백과:관리자 게시판/전쟁 편집.그리고 User talk에서 어떤 문장을 제시하면 좋을 것이다.미스틱 테크노크라트 또는 사용자 대화:경솔함은 특히 인신공격이다.매튜 hk (토크) 20:41, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
이거 패러디야?조 직장이 두 개?두 분 중 한 분이라도 로그인하지 않으셨다면 언급하지 마십시오."수년간 많은 관리자"와 접촉한 경험이 있는 경우, 개인적으로 연락하십시오. --Floquenbeam (대화) 21:35, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[ |
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다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오. |
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삭제되지 않는 편집은 여기에...
- 이건 양날의 코미디야.내가 무례했나?아마도.대화 페이지에 있는 이슈에 대해 논의하기 위해 사용자를 참여시키려 했지만, 그는...그리고 나서 나에게 대화 페이지에서 토론하지 않고 편집-워링을 그만하라고 말한다.한 달 전에 토크 페이지에 참여하려고 했지만.
위의 IP광대에 대해서는...그는 내가 실제 반달패들과 연관되어 있다는 이상한 편집증적 믿음을 가지고 있다. 그는 그가 편집한 페이지에 흥미를 가지고 있다. 아무런 증거도 없이.지난 2-3년 동안 그의 유일한 활동은 내가 편집하는 모든 편집들을 추적해 왔다.그렇게 슬프지 않다면 재미있을 거야.
당면한 이슈에 대해서는, 내가 원하는 것은 단지 토크 페이지에서 의미 있는 토론을 하는 것이다.미스틱 테크노크라트 (대화) 22:12, 2018년 10월 24일 (UTC)[
- 이건 양날의 코미디야.내가 무례했나?아마도.대화 페이지에 있는 이슈에 대해 논의하기 위해 사용자를 참여시키려 했지만, 그는...그리고 나서 나에게 대화 페이지에서 토론하지 않고 편집-워링을 그만하라고 말한다.한 달 전에 토크 페이지에 참여하려고 했지만.
홈 :MGM 홈 엔터테인먼트
처리된 것으로 보인다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 29일 16:22 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
토크에서 논쟁이 벌어지고 있는 것 같다.MGM 홈 엔터테인먼트.여러 IP 주소를 사용하는 단일 사용자가 반요청 편집에 응답하려고 했던 것으로 보인다.사용자는 IP가 블록-이탈이 되어 WP에 의해 편집된 내용을 되돌렸다고 생각한다.반레버트.이것에 대해 어떻게 생각하세요?INeedSupport(Care free to give me support?) 01:54, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 분명히 이 문제에 관련된 관리자가 있었고 이미 이 문제를 처리한 것 같다.INeedSupport(Care free to give me support?) 01:57, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
사용자:니페 콜드
비남라 데브(비관리자 폐쇄) JC7V-토크 23:16, 2018년 10월 28일(UTC) 의 양말로서 bb23에 의해 차단[응답 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
니페 콜드 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
이 사용자[119][120][121][122][123][124]와 함께 파괴적인 편집 패턴이 있는 것 같다.관리자 개입 요청.그들로 넘쳐흐른 2018년 10월 28일(UTC) 14시 40분 (
- 이 사용자의 편집 내용을 빠르게 검토하면 빈 기사/초안 시작, 광고 가이드라인에 대한 이해 부족, 많은 비소급 원본 연구, 터무니없이 낮은 품질의 이미지 업로드 등 많은 양의 저품질 편집이 나타난다.그들은 그들의 토크 페이지에서 제기된 수십 가지 이슈에 대해 응답하지 않는다.이 사람은 영어를 모국어로 말하지 않을 가능성이 높고 WP:CIR은 분명히 고려해야 할 사항이다.사용자가 자신의 토크 페이지에 있는 모든 경고와 관련된 문제를 이해한다는 것을 증명할 수 있을 때까지 블록을 제안한다. -- Ed (Edgar181) 14:52, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- bb23은 이제 비남라 뎁의 양말처럼 그들을 차단하고 그들이 만든 기사들을 모두 삭제했다(그 중 일부는 날조 가능성이 있는 것 같았다).나는 지금 그들의 편집을 검토하고 있으며 WP:롤백#RB4.--SkyGazer 512 22:04, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ ]에 따라 비파괴적인 것을 롤백하고 있다
트롤을 따라잡기
트롤 얘기가 나와서 말인데 OP의 범위가 차단되어 다작 LTA에 의해 반복적으로 사용되고 있다.파보니아어 (토크) 12:22, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
부드러운 피부는 레퍼런스 데스크가 영구적으로 보호되기를 원하며 관리자는 이를 좋은 아이디어라고 생각하는 것으로 보인다.언제부터 관리자들은 트롤에게 그들이 요구하는 것을 주는 사업을 해왔는가?그들을 낙담시키는 유일한 방법은 그들이 원하는 것을 주지 않는 것이다.부드러운 피부는 끝이 보이지 않는 10월 내내 7개의 레퍼런스 데스크를 모두 보호하는데 성공했고, 그는 토크 페이지(백스톱이 되어야 할)를 무기한 보호했다.가장 최근의 희생자는 "확장 확정 보호"된 엔터테인먼트다.RD2는 최근의 공공 기물 파괴 행위를 감추기 위한 구실이었다.그가 올린 글은 다음과 같다.
로봇 보호 기능이 모바일 페이지를 표시하도록 편집하시겠습니까?
로봇에 의해 편집된 감사 취소 가능 RD3 변경?
그들은 백인들이 공공 기물 파손 요청을 하기 위해 데이트하는 것을 파괴하려고 노력하고 있다.
그들은 백인들이 위키백과 관리자와 숨겨진 데이트를 못하게 하려고 노력하고 있다.
재단은 이 내용을 삭제하는 개정은 탈시솝으로 이어질 도구 남용이라는 점을 분명히 하고 있다.책상에 눈이 부족함이 없다. 그냥 뒤로 돌아가서 계속하라.관리자들은 그들이 걸레를 휘두르기에 너무 게을러서 보호하려는 것처럼 보인다 - 그것이 그들이 청소 찬장 열쇠를 받았을 때 등록한 것이다.만약 그들이 그 일을 하고 싶지 않다면 나는 그들을 위해 그것을 할 것이다. 나는 레퍼런스 데스크를 감시하고 있다.2A00:23C0:7F00:C401:BC37:B191:4FBD:7984 (대화) 11:36, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 아니, 이건 잘못된 평가야.우리가 레드데스크를 보호한 것은 우리가 게으르기 때문이 아니라 그 병신이 이 모든 것을 되돌리기 위해 몇 명의 사용자들의 정규직 고용을 필요로 하는 빈자리에 순전히 파괴적인 ma물질(수정본 삭제해야 하는 것)을 게시했기 때문이다.-Ymblanter (talk) 11:44, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그럼 그냥 막아라.문제는 해결됐습니다.2A00:23C0:7F00:C401:BC37:B191:4FBD:7984 (대화) 11:52, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그들은 했다.그가 다른 계정을 만들고 계속하기 때문에 문제가 해결되지 않는다.TheVicarsCat (talk) 11:55, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그럼 그냥 막아라.문제는 해결됐습니다.2A00:23C0:7F00:C401:BC37:B191:4FBD:7984 (대화) 11:52, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 당신이 게시한 인용문은 왜 refdesk를 보호해야 하는지 그 이유와는 아무런 상관이 없어. 그것은 절대적으로 revdeldd/overvisual이어야 하는 매우 구체적이고 다작의 모욕적인 쓰레기들을 포함하고 있어. 여러 대리점에서 도착해야 해.관리자, 체크 사용자 및 오버태이터가 이러한 편집 내용을 대부분의 사용자가 볼 수 없도록 하는 데 성공했다고 생각하십시오.아크로테리온(토크) 11:54, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 계정 하나와 IP 하나가 있었다.계좌는 8시 18분에 차단되었다.더 이상의 교란은 없었으나(IP도 08시 18분에 차단되었다) 3분 후에 보호가 적용되었다.2A00:23C0:7F00:C401:BC37:B191:4FBD:7984 (대화) 12:02, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ 하라
그것은 그것에 대해 어떤 필연성을 가지고 있었다.TheVicarsCat (talk) 2018년 10월 29일 12:25 (UTC)[ 하라
괴롭힘에 대한 범위 블록 제안: 특별:기여금/2001:D08:1808:8341::/64
IPv6 범위가 차단됨~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 29일 16:14 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
2001:D08:1808:8341::/64(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 필터 로그 · WHOIS · RBLs · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그) (즉, 단일 사용자)가 웁살라 대학 ([126], [127])에서 보나데아를 반복적으로 괴롭히고 있으므로, 적절하다고 판단되는 기간 범위 블록을 제안한다.그것은 그녀의 오랜 적인 위키백과일 수도 있다.Sockpuppet 조사/Nsmutte는 다른 사람일 수도 있지만(Nsmutte geolocates AFAIK to India, 이 IPs가 말레이시아로 위치...)누군가 궁금해할까 봐 IP에 알리지 않았는데, 이론상으로는, 적어도 수백만 개의 IP를 가지고 있고, 여기에 그 중 하나로서 나타날지도 모르기 때문이다. - 톰 토마스.W 17:38, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ 하라
눈에 띄지 않는 응용 프로그램 모음인 그림판 채팅
(비관리자 폐쇄) 조항 삭제TheVicarsCat (talk) 2018년 10월 29일 12시 24분 (UTC)[ 하라 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 이것에 대해 느린 편집 전쟁을 하는 것에 지쳤다.여기에 이미 기사가 있는 두 개의 앱을 제외하고 나머지는 그들의 웹사이트로 소싱된다.누군가가 온전하게 보관하고 싶어하는 스팸 저장소야.도와줘서 고마워.등. 2601:188:180:180:1481:1034:5A75:D26C:7084 (토크) 02:07, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 이 페이지는 내용 문제 해결을 위한 것이 아니다.삭제기사를 지명하고자 할 경우 그렇게 하는 과정이 있다. 331닷(토크) 09:31, 2018년 10월 29일(UTC)[
- 네. 이거 지울 수 있게.감사합니다 2601:188:180:1481:7DB5:CF1F:4444:67C9 (대화) 12:16, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 빠른 삭제(WP:A7) 및 삭제.TheVicarsCat (talk) 2018년 10월 29일 12시 24분 (UTC)[ 하라
- 네. 이거 지울 수 있게.감사합니다 2601:188:180:1481:7DB5:CF1F:4444:67C9 (대화) 12:16, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
(classic) WP의 경우:여기 말고?
LTA(비관리자 폐쇄) zchrykng (대화) 18:16, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 AfD를 만든 다음 닫는 "New" 사용자.다른 기부는 아무런 가치가 없다.나는 이 토론을 그들에게 알려야 한다는 것을 알지만, 이번 경우에는 그 부분은 생략하겠다.고마워요.루거츠 17:43, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 아마 오늘 아침 아벨모스쿠스 에스칼란투스 사칭으로 두 개의 계정을 만든 바로 그 사람일 것이다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:48, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 고마워 - 그리고 이건 차단됐어.러그넛 18:01, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
사용자의 대화 페이지에서 IP 공격
토크 페이지 액세스가 취소됨.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 29일 15:53 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
누군가 이 차이점[129]을 보고 여전히 대화 페이지 액세스가 필요한지 결정해 주시겠습니까?영어는 나의 모국어가 아니고, 이것이 얼마나 모욕적인지 알기 어렵다.고마워.---ymblanter (대화) 15:27, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 이 편집도 살펴봐야 한다.첫번째는 This 입니다.위의 것은 편집자 공격에 대한 나의 경고에 대한 IP 응답이다.~ GB팬 15:31, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 임블란터, GB 팬 -
확인하는 중...~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 29일 15:36 (UTC)[
- (편집 충돌) 임블란터, GB 팬 - 메흐, 사용자가 반복적인 편집으로 공개적으로 파괴적이거나 폭언을 하거나, 그렇지 않으면 노골적으로 사용자 대화 페이지에 대한 액세스를 남용하지 않는 한 일단 그것을 사용하도록 내버려두라고 말하고 싶다.그들의 차단되지 않은 요청은 설득력이 없다; 나는 그것에 대응하고 사용자가 (이성 내에서) 돌을 던지고 증기를 불게 하는 것이 WP의 핵심이다.DENE는 그들이 하고 있는 일이 주목을 끌지 못하고 있다는 것을 보여준다.지겨워하고 멈추겠지 (그렇게 뜨거워지면)... :-) ~ 오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 지금 이 편집이 있다.~ GB팬 15:40, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 이제 우리는 새로운 편집자인 스쿠치뉴가 등장한다.그들의 첫 번째 편집 내용은 Talk:NPOV에 대해 논의할 뉴트 깅리치.여기서 논의한 IP와 동일하다.~ GB팬 15:44, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- IP의 TPA가 해지됨.미안, 오슈와, 뭘 확인하고 있는지 모르겠어.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 15:46, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 이반벡터 - 여기에 제공된 새로운 정보를 바탕으로, 나는 괜찮다.나는 단지 여기서 내가 편집된 내용을 검토하고 있고, 응답할 것이라고 말했을 뿐이지, 그 이상은 아니다.처리해줘서 고마워. ;-) ~ 오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 15:49, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 임블란터, GB 팬 -
동부 전선 기사 편집 전쟁.
일단 해결됨: 삭푸펫이 막혔고 기사가 반투명되었다.편집자가 다른 기사를 작성하기를 기다리는 수많은 관리자들이 있는데, 이 기사에 혼란이 재개되면 WP:RFPP. Ivanvector TalkEdits(/) 22:22, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ ]에서 보호 요청을 하십시오 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
일부 IP에서 동일한 편집:
이러한 변경이 여러 사용자에 의해 되돌아가고 있음에도 불구하고 [130], [210], [135], [130], [210], [135],
4급 활력사 기사임을 감안한다면 반편찬이 바람직할 것 같다.--폴 시버트(토크) 18:06, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 고마워. 하지만 IP는 쉽게 바꿀 수 있어.--Paul Siebert (토크) 2018년 10월 29일(UTC) 19:00[
사용자의 미개한 의견:포트나이트 배틀 로얄 시즌 6
오슈와에 의해 방어막혔어네이처리움 (토크) 2018년 10월 29일 19:28 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 [136] [137] 행동은 용납할 수 없다.--Jetstreamer 18:29, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 이름하고 편집한 걸 보면 이건 분명 어떤 애일 뿐이야. 외설하고 끝내버려.◆Money💵emoji💵💸18:53, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 미안하지만 나는 어린애가 아니라 어른이야.모든 아이들이 포트나이트 어른들도 게임을 하는 것은 아니다.게다가 그 반달리즘은 어떻게 아이를 갖기 위해 행운을 빌고, 아이를 갖기 위해 섹스를 해야 한다는 거야.나는 오리엔티어링과 에어 마다가스카르의 건설적인 편집을 많이 했다.포트나이트 배틀로얄 시즌6 (토크) 19:08, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 블록 Per WP:여기에서는 어떤 특별한 종류의 사람이 AN/I 실에 올라와서 이렇게 2학년 수준의 모욕감을 주는데, 2학년 수준의 모욕감을 주는데 당신이 2학년 수준의 모욕감을 주려는 것에 대한 당신의 변호가 된다.사이먼m223 (대화) 2018년 10월 29일 19:11 (UTC)[
- @Fortnite Battle Royale 시즌 6: 만약 당신이 어린애가 아니라면, 당신은 정말로 한 아이처럼 행동하는 것 같다.나는 또한 WP당 한 블록을 지지할 것이다.NOTHERE. ✎ 19:15, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 설명으로 "성관계를 하고 아기를 갖는 행운을 빈다 :"는 그들의 토크 페이지에 그들이 최근에 다른 남자와 결혼한 게이 남자라고 언급하는 것에 대한 반응이었다.네이처리움 (토크) 2018년 10월 29일 19:16 (UTC)[
난 절대 그런 뜻이 아니야.나는 에어 마다가스카르와 오리엔티어링에 유용한 정보를 추가했기 때문에 백과사전을 만들려고 여기에 왔다.포트나이트 배틀로얄 시즌6 (토크) 19:19, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 워링도 [138]--Jetstreamer 19:21, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 분명한 WP:NOTHERE zchrykng (대화) 2018년 10월 29일 19:26 (UTC)[
- 문제의 사용자는 이해하지 못하는 것 같다.누가 가서 그들과 함께 상황을 좀 더 자세히 설명해 주시겠습니까?이 아이가 아이일 가능성이 높다는 점을 고려하면 이 모든 것을 설명하는 데 시간이 조금 걸리는 것이 유익하다. --타라지 (토크) 20:27, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
새로운 편집기가 여러 페이지를 방해함
편집이 지장을 받고 토크페이지에서 반복적으로 경고를 받은 탓에 31시간째 사용자를 차단하고 있다.블록이 만료되었을 때 파괴적 편집이 재개되면 더 긴 블록이나 인데버트를 적용해야 한다.— 아마쿠루 (토크) 20:37, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
LewisChampion97은 새로운 SPA 편집자로, 아부다비 그랑프리의 모든 인스턴스를 부정확한 아랍에미리트 그랑프리로 바꾸는 편집만이 있었다.그들은 그들의 대화 페이지를 인정하지 않고 있으며 12개의 다른 페이지를 계속해서 방해하고 파괴하고 있다.
- 아부다비 그랑프리
- 야스마리나 서킷
- 2018 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2017 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2016 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2015 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2014 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2013년 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2012년 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2011년 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2010 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
- 2009년 포뮬러 원 월드 챔피언십
그들의 유일한 편집은 이것을 파괴적인 하나의 변화로 만드는 것이었고, 따라서 관리자들의 막힘이나 엄격한 최종적인 경고가 필요하다.왜냐하면 지금 그들은 백과사전에 긍정적으로 기여하고 있지 않기 때문이다.요셉2302 (대화)20:31,2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
킬로사스н: 역량의 문제
WP당 Courcelles에 의해 외설됨:CIR. ✎ 21:35, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)(비관리자 폐쇄)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
п사스н(토크 · 기고)은 10월 17일, 그가(그의 사용자 페이지는 그의 이름을 파벨이라고 한다)이 심각한 형식상의 문제를 가진 기사를 만들고 그의 토크 페이지에 표현된 우려에 대해 전혀 대응하지 않았다는 우려에서 출발하여, 10월 20일, 그가 만든 기사에 대해 여기서 최근 두 가지 보도의 주제가 되어 왔다.기계 번역으로 그의 토크 페이지에는 러시아어를 구사하는 임블란터가 내 요청으로 남긴 두 개의 메시지로 절정을 이루었는데, 이 메시지는 п사스а의 모국어로 보인다.킬로사스페도 양쪽 루에서 모두 외설적이다.저작권 침해에 대한 위키피디아와 커먼즈, 그리고 그의 토크 페이지는 그가 공정한 사용 가이드라인을 충족시키기에는 너무 큰 결의로 영화 포스터와 스크린샷을 업로드하고 있으며, 때로는 살아있는 사람들의 이미지를 "공정한 사용"하고 있다는 것을 보여준다.지난달 23일 남긴 임블란터의 두 번째 메시지는 공정 사용 이미지 정책에 대한 이해도가 떨어지고 기계 번역 텍스트도 메인 공간에서 받아들일 수 없다는 사실을 п바스н에게 알려줬고, п바스н은 24일 조언에 감사했다.Kilasebasн의 작품 중 일부는 다른 위키백과 기사를 베끼면서 더 나은 영어를 사용하려는 시도로 보인다. 불행하게도 단순히 사실이 아닌 자료를 생산한다.예를 들어, 이 버전의 알렉산더 아난첸코에서 첫 번째/선봉 단락은 데니스 푸시린에서 따온 것이며, (삭제된 이후) 세르게이 모로조프(정치인)의 전체는 알렉산더 질킨에서 베낀 것이다.그는 이제 러시아어 위키백과에서 단순히 기계 번역으로 기사를 만드는 것을 재개했다.10월 27일 류드밀라 포르기나(당시 러시아어 기사를 편집모드로 비교, 대충 번역으로 태그하기보다는 영어 기사를 스텁(stub)할 것 같다)와 오늘날 기계 번역기 제작 스크램블 포맷이 동일하고 이미 다른 편집자의 태그가 붙어 있는 팍사(TV 시리즈)가 그것이다.
임블란터 외에도 다수의 편집자들이 п사스н의 작품을 고치고 조언을 구하려 했다.제시카피에스는 여기서 첫 번째 보고서를 만들었고 형식에 대한 언급에 대해 그와 함께 노력해왔고, 러너웨이엔젤은 그의 다른 기사에 대해 내 토크 페이지에서 나를 찔렀다.나쁜 번역이 보도되는 영어로 번역이 필요한 페이지는 끔찍하게 뒤처져 있고, 그곳의 편집자들은 뒤처지는 일을 한다; 그리고 이 편집자의 기사는 우리가 왜 기계 번역 기사가 없는 기사보다 더 나쁘다고 말하는지를 보여준다.그의 모든 결과물을 점검해 모든 진술이 작품과 상당히 떨어져서, 그것들을 읽을 수 있도록 하는 적절한 사람에 대한 것인지 확인할 필요가 있다.유감스럽게도 나는 찬사를 받을 만한 의도에도 불구하고, 단지 여기에 기여할 영어의 역량이 있을 뿐이라는 것을 확신하게 되었다.그리고 공정한 사용 이미지 정책의 위반도 무시할 수 없다.Imblanter가 AN/I 보고서를 새로 시작하라고 요청했어.Yngvadottir (대화) 20:56, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 서포트 서포터블록 - 미안하지만 영어로 편집할 수 없다면 여기서 편집하면 안 된다.토크 페이지를 사용할 수도 있지만 기사를 편집하지는 않는다. --타라지 (토크) 21:01, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 고마워 @Yngvadottir: 나 iPad로 돌아왔는데, 오늘 보고서를 제출하는 게 힘들었어.나는 그 상황에 대한 너의 평가에 전적으로 동의한다.나는 우리가 여기서 심각한 능력 문제를 다루고 있는 것이 두렵다.사용자는 좋은 의도를 가지고 선의로 행동하지만, 현 시점에서 심각한 문제 없이 위키백과를 편집할 수 없는 것은 아닌지 걱정된다.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:06, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
여러 기사에 대한 정치적 비눗방울 작성
사용자가 차단됨.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 30일 14시 20분(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
For the IP, an often disruptive and editorializing history: [139]; [140]; [141]; [142]; [143]; [144]; [145]; edit warring at Electoral College: [146]; [147]; [148]; [149]; [150]; [151], to the extent of arguing that the only content in the lede should regard its controversy [152].대학 기사에서 타협점을 찾는 것 같긴 한데, 모든 편집에 있어서 pov는 명백하다.
등록된 계정은 다음과 같다: [153]; [154]; [155]; [156]; [157].2601:188:180:180:1481:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (토크) 13:06, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 이 실의 요점은 무엇인가?나는 이 완전히 목적 없는 ANI를 만들기 위해 OP를 차단해야 한다고 제안한다.나는 OP가 일생 동안 가지고 있던 것보다 더 유용한 내용, 더 많은 참고자료에 대한 링크, 그리고 더 멋지고 상쾌한 산문을 지난 3일 동안 기고해 왔다.그래, 내가 그 계정을 만들었어. 그리고?OP는 프로젝트의 역병이다. 내가 제출한 바로 이것이야말로 여기서 진짜 이슈다. 98.113.64.235 (대화) 19:28, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 좀 더 친절한 말: [158]; [159]내가 동의한다는 사실은 요점을 벗어난다.이건 웹사이트가 아니야2601:188:180:180:1481:1034:5A75:D26C:7084 (대화) 20:37, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 [160]2601:188:180:180:1481:1034:5A75:D26C:7084 (대화) 20:43, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 솔직히 말해서, 네가 "사라져" 있든 말든 누가 상관하겠어?또한 나는 애초에 당신이 내가 편집한 어떤 것에 정확히 무엇이 잘못되었는지 전혀 표시하지 않았을 때 내 진술이 "더 친절하다"고 무례한 너의 비꼬는 것도 신경 쓰지 않는다.다시 말하지만, 나는 너의 괴롭힘에 질렸다.트럼프가 자신의 미사여구로 집단폭력에 기여했는지, 아니면 영감을 주었는지에 대한 질문에 대해 USAToday, Washington Post, Haaretz에서 올린 3가지 링크를 읽어보십시오.나의 산문은 USA오늘의 기사에서 거의 그대로 인용되었다.행정부는 이를 펜스 부통령이 직접 대응 성명을 발표할 정도로 심각하게 받아들였다.어떤 "친절"은.제발 나를 보고할 무언가를 필사적으로 찾아다니는 것을 그만두어라. on.it은 괴롭힘이고, 당신은 지역사회의 시간을 낭비하고 있고, 궁극적으로 한심하고 슬프다.개별 편집의 결여사항에 대해 개별 코멘트가 있을 때, 나는 기꺼이 들을 것이다.그렇지 않다면, 나는 당신이 나의 모든 편집에 대한 이 불쾌한 대량 포스팅으로 모든 사람들의 시간을 낭비할 것을 요청하고 싶다. 그들에게 당신의 반대를 설명하기 위한 노력도 없이, 불특정 다 이유로 나에게 제재를 가하는 당신의 근거 없는 혈압을 입증하기 위해서 말이다.이 말도 안 되는 소리 집어치워.당신이 방금 편집한 내용을 내가 분명히 출처로부터 거의 말 그대로 진술한 주장들에 대해 언급했다는 사실은 이것이 얼마나 우스꽝스러운 것인지 눈으로 다 보여야 한다.해체 편집자 (토크) 21:30, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 [160]2601:188:180:180:1481:1034:5A75:D26C:7084 (대화) 20:43, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 좀 더 친절한 말: [158]; [159]내가 동의한다는 사실은 요점을 벗어난다.이건 웹사이트가 아니야2601:188:180:180:1481:1034:5A75:D26C:7084 (대화) 20:37, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
이 IP 편집자는 이제 WP로서 "도널드-트럼프에 영감을 받은 대중 폭력" (diff)을 만들자고 제안했다.막연하게 관련된 모든 것에 대한 COOTRACK은 본질적으로 WP일 것이라고 생각한다.NPOV 위반(WP:또한 BLP 위반).power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:14, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 관련 토크 페이지에서 내 제안에 대한 너의 반대 의견을 말해보는 건 어때?나는 행정부의 부인 등 이 표현에 대해 논의한 많은 기사를 출처화했다.확실히 (참고인의 지지를 받는) 제안의 목소리는 제재를 모색하는 합리적인 근거가 아니다.해체 편집자 (토크) 21:34, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 우선, 나는 토크 페이지에서 의견이 달랐다.둘째, 구체적으로 제재를 구하지 않았다.셋째, IP 에디터임을 인정하는 것 같은데, 맞나?power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:34, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 관련 토크 페이지에서 내 제안에 대한 너의 반대 의견을 말해보는 건 어때?나는 행정부의 부인 등 이 표현에 대해 논의한 많은 기사를 출처화했다.확실히 (참고인의 지지를 받는) 제안의 목소리는 제재를 모색하는 합리적인 근거가 아니다.해체 편집자 (토크) 21:34, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
나는 거의 확실히 LTA User:Kingshowman의 sockpuppets가 그렇듯이 두 가지 모두를 과감하게 차단했다.그리고 네, IP는 그들이 사용자 계정의 생성자라고 말했어. --멜라니엔 (토크) 22:12, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
여기에 약간의 역량 문제가 있을 수 있다.
이 문제는 이 게시판의 취지에 따라 해결될 것으로 보인다.보고된 사용자는 다른 사용자들로부터 문제와 우려를 설명받았고, 이제는 앞으로 나아가서 해결 작업을 할 수 있는 열린 대화와 방향이 생긴 것 같다.필요한 경우 적절한 대화 페이지에서 추가 논의가 이루어질 수 있다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 30일 14시 19분(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
템플릿으로 인한 파괴적 편집의 이력이 있는 것 같은데, 이 교환에서는 [161], [162], [163], [164] 외에는 볼 수 없었을 것이다.초기 오류를 인정하지 않고, 내 토크 페이지에 경고를 복원한 다음, 정책에 대해 몰랐다고 말하는 것은 모두 4살짜리 계정에게는 특이한 능력 문제들이다.2601:188:180:180:1481:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (대화) 15:29, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 1년 전에 정말로 편집을 시작했다고 말하고 싶다.나는 합법적으로 그 정책에 대해 몰랐다.초기의 오류는 인정했지만, 당신은 오히려 내가 오늘 아침에 편집한 것에 대해 생각해봐야 한다고 미안하다고 말했고, 그래서 나는 허글을 그만 쓰고 그냥 그렇게 했어.– BrandonXLF(t@lk) 15:32, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 내가 쓴 글은 그게 아니다. [165].그것은 역량에 대한 요점을 강조한다.2601:188:180:180:1481:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (대화) 15:35, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 한 마디도 하지 않고 네가
비위생적인 내용을 복구하고 거짓 경고를
준 것에대해 사과하기
보다는 오늘아침 편집
에 대해다시
생각해보는시간
을 갖자고말했다
.그것은 기본적으로 내가 위에서 말한 것이다.– BrandonXLF(t@lk) 15:37, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[- 다시 말하지만, 문장의 일부를 생략함으로써 문맥을 뒤틀었군: 비윤리적 내용을 복원하고 거짓 경고를 준 것에 대해 사과하기보다는, 여기 아래 두 배로 내려와서...그리고 아니, 당신은 그 기사에 대한 내용의 복원이나 나에게 보내는 경고의 실수를 전혀 인정하지 않았다. 2601:188:180:1481:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (대화) 15:40, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 한 마디도 하지 않고 네가
- 내가 쓴 글은 그게 아니다. [165].그것은 역량에 대한 요점을 강조한다.2601:188:180:180:1481:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (대화) 15:35, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 코멘트 여기에는 꽤 많은 문제가 있었다.WP는 하지 않지만:BrandonX를 강제할 뭔가가 있다고 생각해그들의 행동을 바꾸기 위해서는 LF가 필요하다.0RR(한 달 후에 적용 가능) 및 같은 기간 동안 템플릿 공간 사용 금지?power~enwiki (π, ν) 15:43, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 의견)내가 가장 걱정되는 것은 브랜든X이다.IP가 콘텐츠를 삭제하는 명확한(짝수 없는, 사소한, 홍보적인) 이유를 제공했음에도 불구하고 LF의 편집 요약("설명되지 않은 콘텐츠 제거" 및 경고)은 다음과 같다.브랜던XLF, 만약 내가 제안할 수 있는 것이 있다면, 되돌리기 전에 당신이 무엇을 되돌리고 있는지 아는 것이 당신의 일로 만드세요.IP의 편집 내용을 "설명되지 않은 콘텐츠 제거"라고 거짓으로 표시하여 이와 같은 경고를 하는 것은 WP에 확실하다.신참들을 물어라.예를 들어, 사용자들은 자신의 대화 페이지에서 경고를 자유롭게 제거할 수 있으며 홍보 콘텐츠를 복원해서는 안 된다.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 16:07, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
불합리한 차단.불합리한 편집자
IP 범위가 블록 회피로 차단되었다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC) 14:17[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 오늘 여섯 번의 편집을 했고, 분명히 악보나 앨범 페이지가 아닌 기사에 삭제 태그를 추가했다.처음 두 기사는 정말로 삭제되었다.나머지 4개의 편집이 되돌아가고 User:Bb23에 의해 내 IP 주소가 차단되었다.이것은 정말 부적절하다.내 모든 삭제 태그는 태그가 유효한 이유를 설명하는 코멘트와 함께 배치되었다.이 기사들은 제프 오스터, 알렉시 무스니츠키, 리처드 카(피아니스트), 더 파이어 인(앨범)이다.이들 중 어느 것도 위키피디아에 포함시킬 만큼 주목할 만한 것은 없다.내가 말했듯이, 나의 처음 두 개의 삭제 태그는 의심의 여지없이 영광이었다.
날 차단한 편집자가 이런 편집은 지장을 준다고 했어. 어떻게?선의로 하는 건 어때?기사 읽으셨어요?내 편집 댓글 봤니?내가 반달인 것처럼 보여?WP:BITE에 대해 들어보셨습니까? IP 주소 페이지에 "블록 해제" 태그를 추가했고 사용자:Bb23에 대한 메모도 추가했다.그는 자기 페이지의 내 편집도 내가 블럭 같은 것을 피하고 있다며 되돌렸고, 굳이 대답도 하지 않았다.
위키백과, 무슨 일이야?나는 한 방 먹일 만한 일을 한 적이 없다.편집 간에 IP 주소가 변경되었는가?나도 몰라.나는 핸드폰을 사용한다.이것은 위키백과 편집자에 의한 또 다른 파워그래프처럼 보인다.확실히 이번이 처음은 아닐 것이다.결코 저 편집자가 선의로 행동하는 것은 아니다.편집한 내용을 검토하십시오.— 173.153.100.105 (대화) 23:57, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[ 이(가) 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
- 차단 회피: 99.203.17.48(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS) 및 99.203.17.53(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)을 참조한다.General Ization 00:04, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 탈루 차단이 아니다.나는 핸드폰을 사용하고 있다.나는 IP를 통제할 수 없다.오늘부터 4개 편집된 내용을 보십시오.나는 이전에 수정하지 않았다.나는 오늘 여섯 번 수정했다.삭제 태그 중 두 개가 영광을 안았다.나는 이 네 가지 기사에 삭제 태그를 붙인 후 차단당했다.그게 진짜로 반달처럼 보이니?적절한 삭제 태그를 보십시오.편집된 내용에 대한 코멘트를 보십시오.당신은 선의로 행동하고 있지 않아.오늘부터의 편집이 IP 주소의 이전 편집과 닮았는가?— 173.153.235.72(대화 • 기여)가 추가된 선행 부호 없는 의견
- "오늘부터 4번 편집"이라는 말은 이 IP주소에 있는 것을 말하는 거지?차단된 IP 주소, 그 후 다른 IP 주소를 사용하여 사용자 대화 페이지 외부에서 편집했으며 현재 세 번째 주소를 사용하고 있는 IP 주소.그것이 어떻게 해서 차단 회피가 되지 않는지 보지 못한다면, '악화'라는 말이 무슨 뜻인지 이해해서는 안 된다.우연한 일이라는 뜻일 수도 있지만, 지금쯤 들러야 할 요점을 얻었어야 했다.이안.톰슨 (대화) 00:16, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 진짜로, 첫 게시물에서 삭제하라고 태그를 달았다가 자기가 태그한 게 아니라고 했어 이걸 닫고 넘어가면 돼Ian.thomson (대화) 00:23, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- @Ian.thomson:IP가 빠른 태그 지정을 거부한 곳은 어디인가?IP의 변화로 인해 편집 내용을 따르기가 어렵지만, 내가 주목한 것은 그들이 부인하는 유일한 것은 나이 든 사람들이다.나는 그들이 인종 차별주의자와 '너무 많이' 놀이를 의미한다고 생각한다. 그리고 히틀러도 마찬가지일 것이다. [166].나이가 많은 사람들은 같은 게시물에서 그들에 대해 이야기했기 때문에 빠른 삭제 태그를 의미하지는 않을 것이다.그들의 번호 매기는 약간 혼란스럽지만, 나는 그들이 여기서 그리고 bb의 페이지에 그들의 편집된 내용을 세지 않고 있다고 생각한다. 그것은 어리석고 혼란스럽지만, 나는 그들이 한 모든 곳을 분명히 인정하고 있기 때문에 오해하려는 의도라고는 말하지 않을 것이다.즉, 6개의 편집은 6개의 빠른 삭제 태그를 가리키는 것으로 보인다.그들은 또한 현재 외부 기사나 기사 토크 페이지를 5번 정도 편집했다.여기 3. 처음에 차단된 토크 페이지 1은 차단 해제 요청으로 차단된 IP로, 1은 차단된 것이 잘못되었다고 Bbb의 토크 페이지 1은 차단되었다.그들은 이 편집들 중 어느 곳에서도 부정하지 않고 단지 5번 편집이라고 말할 때 기사 영역 밖의 편집들을 세지 않는다.그리고 그들이 아무것도 하지 않고 그들의 IP가 바뀌기 때문에 회피하는 것을 막지 않았다고 주장하는 것. (아래에서 말했듯이, 우리 모두는 그것이 분명히 잘못되었다는 것을 알고 있으며 그들은 그들의 토크 페이지에 차단 해제를 요청하는 것 이외에는 어떤 것도 하지 말아야 한다고 생각한다.)닐 아인(대화) 09:49, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 진짜로, 첫 게시물에서 삭제하라고 태그를 달았다가 자기가 태그한 게 아니라고 했어 이걸 닫고 넘어가면 돼Ian.thomson (대화) 00:23, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- "오늘부터 4번 편집"이라는 말은 이 IP주소에 있는 것을 말하는 거지?차단된 IP 주소, 그 후 다른 IP 주소를 사용하여 사용자 대화 페이지 외부에서 편집했으며 현재 세 번째 주소를 사용하고 있는 IP 주소.그것이 어떻게 해서 차단 회피가 되지 않는지 보지 못한다면, '악화'라는 말이 무슨 뜻인지 이해해서는 안 된다.우연한 일이라는 뜻일 수도 있지만, 지금쯤 들러야 할 요점을 얻었어야 했다.이안.톰슨 (대화) 00:16, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 탈루 차단이 아니다.나는 핸드폰을 사용하고 있다.나는 IP를 통제할 수 없다.오늘부터 4개 편집된 내용을 보십시오.나는 이전에 수정하지 않았다.나는 오늘 여섯 번 수정했다.삭제 태그 중 두 개가 영광을 안았다.나는 이 네 가지 기사에 삭제 태그를 붙인 후 차단당했다.그게 진짜로 반달처럼 보이니?적절한 삭제 태그를 보십시오.편집된 내용에 대한 코멘트를 보십시오.당신은 선의로 행동하고 있지 않아.오늘부터의 편집이 IP 주소의 이전 편집과 닮았는가?— 173.153.235.72(대화 • 기여)가 추가된 선행 부호 없는 의견
- IP 편집자는 WP:빠른 삭제는 그렇게 되어 있다.이것은 부메랑이 될 것 같다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 00:13, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 나는 빠른 삭제를 이해한다.오늘 내가 태그한 기사들, 즉 이미 삭제된 두 글과 남은 네 글들은 db-band 또는 db-앨범 기사들이다.내가 빠른 삭제를 이해하지 못한다면 왜 처음 두 개의 태그가 삭제되었을까?— 173.153.34.160이 추가한 선행 부호 없는 의견(대화 • 기여)
- (편집 갈등) On The Fire Inner (앨범) WP:A9은 아티스트에게 기사가 있어 적용되지 않는다.제프 오스터와 같은 다른 사람들은 그것을 분류하기 위해 AfD가 필요하다고 충분히 언급하고 있다.나는 이것들이 스스로 한 블록을 정당화 할 만큼 파괴적이었다는 것에 동의하지는 않지만,
분명한 회피도 있는 것 같다.정기적으로 빠른 삭제 작업을 하려면 계정 등록을 해야 할 것이다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 00:21, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[- 이것을 다시 읽고 난 후, 나는 그 탈루가 의도적이었는지 확신할 수 없다.어쨌든 나는 이 사람이 위키백과에서 일주일 정도 떨어져 있고, 삭제 과정에 관심이 있다면 돌아오면 계정을 등록하라고 조언한다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:10, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 파워~엔위키에 동의해야 하는데 IP가 일주일간 그냥 떨어져 있는 것이 가장 좋을 것 같다.아래에서 말했듯이, 나는 그 블록이 정당했는지 확실하지 않다.불행히도 너의 회피는 너의 사건을 심각하게 손상시킨다.편집 뒤에 있는 편집자가 차단되어 있는 한, 어떤 IP로도 편집할 수 없고, 토크 페이지에서 차단 해제 요청을 할 수 있다는 것을 이해해야 한다.ANI 또는 차단 관리자 페이지를 편집하지 마십시오.당신의 IP가 통제할 수 없는 범위 밖에서 변하더라도 당신은 그것을 하지 않은 것처럼 행동해야 한다.그리고 남의 말을 기꺼이 들어줄 필요가 있다.속도위반자 2명이 정당하다고 해도 4명은 정당하지 않은 것 같아.다른 사람들이 말했듯이, 스피디스는 어떤 명확한 컷 케이스를 위한 것이다.다른 것은 WP:proded(여전히 허용되는 경우) 또는 AFD가 필요하다.또한 계정 등록이 필요하지 않지만 정책 관련 이슈(어떤 형태로든 삭제 포함)를 처리할 때 특히 훨씬 쉬워진다.그것은 또한 당신이 항상 계정과 함께 편집한다면 당신은 회피를 막을 수 없다는 것을 의미한다.닐 아인(토크) 10:10, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 이것을 다시 읽고 난 후, 나는 그 탈루가 의도적이었는지 확신할 수 없다.어쨌든 나는 이 사람이 위키백과에서 일주일 정도 떨어져 있고, 삭제 과정에 관심이 있다면 돌아오면 계정을 등록하라고 조언한다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:10, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- (편집 갈등) On The Fire Inner (앨범) WP:A9은 아티스트에게 기사가 있어 적용되지 않는다.제프 오스터와 같은 다른 사람들은 그것을 분류하기 위해 AfD가 필요하다고 충분히 언급하고 있다.나는 이것들이 스스로 한 블록을 정당화 할 만큼 파괴적이었다는 것에 동의하지는 않지만,
- 나는 빠른 삭제를 이해한다.오늘 내가 태그한 기사들, 즉 이미 삭제된 두 글과 남은 네 글들은 db-band 또는 db-앨범 기사들이다.내가 빠른 삭제를 이해하지 못한다면 왜 처음 두 개의 태그가 삭제되었을까?— 173.153.34.160이 추가한 선행 부호 없는 의견(대화 • 기여)
- 나는 범위를 차단했다.그들은 그들이 차단되었다는 것을 분명히 이해했고, 여러 지점에서 그 블록의 준수를 반대하기로 결정했기 때문에, 그들은 "이벤트"가 무엇을 의미하는지 이해하지 못하거나, 선의의 운영에는 신경을 쓰지 않는다.이안.톰슨 (대화) 00:20, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자) 이 경우 삭제태깅의 품질이 좋지 않은 점을 감안할 때 누군가가 삭제된 두 가지를 검토할 수 있는가?빠른 삭제에 대한 의심스러운 자격요건과 비슷해 보이고, 누군가에 의해 약간 방아쇠처럼 삭제된 것 같다.(그들이 나열한 앨범 중 하나는 지금 빌보드 차트가 아니라 2개 차트에 올라 있는데, 그 가수는 기사를 가지고 있다.빠른 삭제를 이해한다면 이를 따르지 않는 것이다.) --Nat Gertler (대화) 00:25, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
인정해야겠어, 원래 블록의 이유를 이해할 수 없어.5월에 편집된 5개는 형편없고 가치가 충분히 있었다.9월의 편집은 별로 나아지지 않았다.가장 최근의 빠른 삭제 지명은 비록 정당화되지 않았다고 해도, 특히 차단되기 전에 멈추라는 말을 듣지 않은 것 같기 때문에, 별로 가치가 없어 보인다.6연속 꽤 빠른 속도로 (다른 2명이 언제 후보로 지명됐는지는 모르겠지만) 꽤 많기는 하지만, 다시 말하지만 먼저 중단하라는 단순한 요청이 더 나은 해결책이 되었을 것으로 보인다.그 중 2개의 태그가 경품되었기 때문에 더욱 그러하다. 그리고 비록 이것이 나머지 4개의 태그 이후에 발생했다고 하더라도, 만약 경품된 2개의 태그가 경품되지 않았어야 했다면, 이 모든 것은 초명확한 컷이 아니라는 것을 암시한다.
만약 앞의 편집이 같은 편집자에 의한 것이라면, 나는 블록에 동의할 수 있지만 언급되지 않은 CU 증거를 제외할 수도 있다. 그래서 나는 내가 볼 수 없는 삭제된 글의 편집이나 유사한 편집이 아니라고 생각한다. 나는 그렇게 설득력이 없어 보인다.그래, 음악 관련 피사체들은 모두 의심스러워, OTOH는 이게 모바일 기기랑 레인지처럼 보여.이러한 회피는 아이러니하게도 이 범위의 할당 패턴이 와이파이 등에 의해 공유되는 일종의 고정 모바일 광대역통신망 또는 아마도 그들이 정말로 자신의 모바일 기기를 켜고 전혀 범위 밖으로 나가지 않고 유지하지 않는 한 누군가가 몇 달 동안 동일한 IP를 유지했을 가능성은 거의 없다는 생각을 부분적으로 뒷받침한다.이번에
물론 그 게시물 차단 회피는 지금 그들에게 그렇게 많은 동정을 갖기 어렵게 만든다.비록 그들이 IP를 의도적으로 바꾸지 않았더라도, 만약 그들이 정말로 회피하는 것을 이해했다면, 그들은 bb의 토크 페이지와 여기에 게시하기 보다는 시간별로 혹은 관리자에 의해 그들의 블록이 해제되기를 기다릴 필요가 있다는 것을 이해했어야 했다.그리고 비록 그들이 처음에 그것을 이해하지 못하더라도, 사람들이 그들에게 멈추라고 말했을 때 그들이 그것을 지켰다는 사실은 어떤 사건도 파괴한다.
그럼에도 불구하고 내가 본 그 이상의 회피는 실제로 기사나 토크 페이지를 편집하는 것보다 어리석은 '차단 해제'/'내가 잘못 차단되었다' 그 이상도 아니었다.그리고 나는 '그들이 한 번 차단되면 잘못 차단되었다고 말하기 위해 그들의 차단을 회피할 것이기 때문에 그들을 차단하는 것은 괜찮았다'는 것이 전적으로 편하지는 않다.
닐 아인(대화) 09:49, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 응, 여기 반응이 좀 이상해.즉, IP에서 XfD에 대한 지명이 아닌 CSD 태그를 사용하여 일부 기사를 삭제하도록 지명했는데, 그게 무슨 대수인지 모르겠다.그렇다, 만약 의사소통을 시도하고 그들이 멈추지 않는다면, 그것은 파괴적일 것이다. 그러나 아무런 경고도 없이 일주일 동안 완전히 차단될 것이다.그건 누구의 기준으로 봐도 과장된 말인데, 난 정말 이해가 안 돼.우리는 반달들을 그렇게 가혹하게 다루지 않는다.그리고 IP가 차단된 이유에 대한 정보를 얻기 위해 차단 관리자에게 가면, 그들은 설명도 없이 그저 되돌아가게 되고, 그들이 여기에 오면, 차단 정책을 로봇처럼 되뇌고, 범위 블록을 만들어내려고 하는 점에 대해서는 전혀 아무런 고려도, 신의도 없이 만나게 된다.아무 질문도 하지마.이는 검토 시 블록이 필요하고/또는 타당하다고 평가되는 경우 보증된 대응이지만, 부당하게 차단되었다고만 지적하는 사람에게 무심코 차단을 시행하는 것은 적절하지 않으며, 얼핏 보기에는 정확해 보이며, 차단 관리자는 실제로 그러한 필요성을 정당화하려는 노력을 하지 않고 있다.그 구역 군집토크 20:06, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
IP 범위는 서로 동일한 양말 인형과 중단되는 기사를 호출함
이 문제는 이제 해결될 것 같다.IP 범위는 지속적인 중단으로 인해 CU 차단되었다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 30일 14시 15분(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕하세요이 토론에서 내 사용자 토크 페이지를 편집하는 IP 범위와 이 토론 및 이 토론과 관련된 토론을 시작하려고 한다.One IP (58.126.14.221) is saying that "212.95.8.148 is a sock puppet of blocked users WorldCreaterFighter / AmurTiger18 / Satoshi Kondo"
, while the other (212.95.8.148) responds by saying "I am not this person, you are the sock of user:bookworm8899 and user:gustmeister and vandalize this pages with tai-nationalism.
아마도 당신은 항상 다른 사용자들
이 그 사람이라고 주장하듯이 월드크리에이터파이터의 양말일 것이다."
기본적으로 "You're the sock puppet", "You're the sock puppet", "You're the sock puppet", "You're the sock puppet", "You're the sock puppet", "You're the summary in my user talk page and an adit an an one그 혼란은 야요이족, 난유족, 바이유에 기사(내가 보호했던 모든 것)에 쏟아졌다.다른 기사로는 시안베이, 시온구, 자포닉어 등이 있다.지금 진행 중인 혼란과 탈피, 그리고 이 난장판을 보고 정리할 수 있는 솜방망이 처벌에 익숙한 사람이 여기 있을까?다른 사람이 이미 이 사실을 잘 알고 있고 밝혀질 수 있다면 나는 중복 작업을 하고 과거에 이미 조사된 내용을 들여다보고 싶지 않다.나는 어떤 조언도 고맙고, 그것은 매우 도움이 될 것이다.미리 감사 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)15:04,2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 안녕, 나는 고소당한 "socks" 중 한 명이다.나는 언급된 그 어떤 사용자의 양말도 아니며, 또한 여기에 기사를 파손하기 위해 있는 것도 아니다.나는 사용자 편집 내용을 보았다: 구스마이스터와 그의 타이 POV.나는 주제에 대해 조사하기 시작했고 그의 편집 내용 대부분이 순수 POV라는 것을 알게 되었다.그는 차단되었고 사용자:bookworm8899로 확인되었다.그는 이제 그의 행동에 대한 나의 반전을 막기 위해 많은 다른 vPN IP(이미 위키 정책에 반하는 것)를 사용한다.나는 그가 나를 포함한 몇몇 다른 편집자와 IP 주소를 비난하기 때문에 다른 사용자들도 그의 편집 내용을 되돌릴 것을 제안한다.그가 양말이라고 비난했던 관리 사용자:즈즈즈즈를 포함한 그의 에디스트의 대부분은 나나 다른 사용자들에 의해 뒤바뀌었다.그리고 우리 모두가 주어진 출처를 보고 그의 편집으로 그것을 꾸며낸다면 그가 이 주제에 대해 타이 전용 아젠다를 밀어붙이는 것은 분명하다.바이휴는 두 개 이상의 언어를 사용했지만 그는 유일한 POV를 유지하고 모든 논의를 무시(또는 삭제)한다는 것은 잘 알려져 있다.그의 회계는 편집 이력을 보면 그런 것으로 잘 알려져 있다.일본이나 베트남 사람과도 개인적인 문제가 있는 것 같다. 212.95.8.148 (대화)15:31, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 내가 베트남인이라는 그의 주장에 대해서도 나는 아니다.나는 이미 2016년에 사토신 콘도스 양말 "고구려 히스토리안"의 편집본을 되돌린 반말레이 입니다.이상하게도 이 주제들은 2015년부터 국제적인 관심을 많이 가지고 있다.나는 그가 2016년에 오스트로네시아와 크라다이의 의제를 추진했던 알타이 이론에 대한 그의 편집 일부를 되돌렸다.책벌레8899/구스트마이스터는 타이 관련 주제를 잘 밀어붙이기 때문에 사토신 콘도와 어떻게든 관련이 있다고 제안하는 것도 이 때문이다.누군가 중고 IP를 확인할 수 있을까?그리고 내 IP에, 이것은 내 모바일 기기에서 나온 것이고 내가 인터넷을 켜거나 끌 때마다 바뀐다.따라서 이러한 범위는 동일한 제공자를 가진 모든 사용자가 사용하며, 매번 변경하는 것은 내 관심사가 아니다. 이는 자동으로 발생한다. 212.95.8.148 (대화) 15:39, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 내가 위와 다른 곳에서 언급되었기 때문에, 내가 이 경기장에 들어온 유일한 것은 며칠 전에 VPN 프록시 두 개를 임의로 차단하는 것이었다.같은 사용자가 이런 저런 말을 하는 것 같아.사실 무슨 일인지 모르겠지만, VPN 사용자들은 그들이 무슨 좋은 일을 꾸미고 있는 것처럼 보이지 않는다.그리고 나는 212.95가 누구인지도 모른다. 비록 나는 그들이 이제 다른 양말들과 함께 체크 사용자 차단을 당했다는 것을 알아차렸다.소크페스트 올 라운드? -- 즈즈즈즈(talk) 15:54, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- Zzuzz - *마약* ...그런 것 같다.아까 두 개의 IP에 의한 장애로 인해 기사를 보호했는데 갑자기 IP 범위 사이의 "소크 호출" 중에 내가 있는 것을 발견했어...오, 내가 본 것 중 가장 이상하거나 미친 일은 아니지만...가깝지도 않고...lol ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 29일 15:57 (UTC)[
검은 연과 그의 열망
아무데도 안가--Ymblanter (대화) 06:41, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ 하라 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 블랙 카이트와 어떠한 분쟁도 한 적이 없고 블랙 카이트가 나에게 어떤 소고기를 가지고 있는지 확실하지 않지만, 그는 WP:캐스팅 질식사들과 어떤 현실적인 문제를 가지고 있는 것 같다.
그는 행정관이지만 자신이 마음속으로 꾸며낸 상상 속의 것들을 다른 편집자에게 노골적으로 고발하는 것은 괜찮다고 믿는다.(그리고 어떠한 차이나 증거도 주지 않고)오늘 그의 ANI 논평[167]에서 블랙 카이트는 내가 다른 편집자와 점수를 맞추려 한다고 비난했다.블랙 카이트의 말을 인용하면 "SIIT를 정기적으로 반대하는 편집자로부터
나온 것이라는 점에서 놀랍지는 않지만 (사용자:
보안관 IsInTown
)은 많은 기사에 실렸으며 1RR'd라는 것에 관심이 있다
."
내가 기억하는 한, 나는 유저와 어떠한 종류의 콘텐츠 논쟁도 한 적이 없다.보안관 IsInTown은 위키피디아에 관한 기사에서 "Any"라고 하지만 Black Kite는 정반대의 생각을 하며 "정규적으로 사용자를 반대한다"고 공개적으로 비난했다.보안관 IsInTown은 "여러 기사"에 출연한다.
심지어 편집자 상호 작용 도구도 나와 사용자 사이에 그런 기사를 끄집어내지 못했다.보안관 이신타운
다른 편집자에 대한 그런 노골적인 거짓말과 거짓 비난은 편집자에게서 기대되는 그런 종류의 행동이 아니기 때문에 나는 그것을 꺼낼 수밖에 없었다. 행정부와 ANI에게도 기대되는 것이 아니다.나는 이 문제가 블랙카이트에서도 과거에 일어났는지 확실하지 않지만 다른 편집자들이 더 많이 알 것이라고 확신한다.블랙 카이트가 과거 Arbcom으로부터 훈계를 받은 적이 있는데, 다시 상황이 나빠진 것 같다.그리고 적절히 대응해야 한다 --DBIGXrayᗙ 01:02, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 아 안녕.그렇다면 왜 보안관과 데브레서 사이의 분쟁에 자신을 끼워 넣었는지(즉, 당신과 전혀 상관없는 일) 그리고 보안관에 대한 1RR 제한을 요구했는지 설명해 주시겠습니까? 그것은 WP로 기소된 누군가에게는 결코 현명한 제재가 될 수 없는 제재다.하운드?위에서 설명했듯이, 그러한 문제에 대한 제재는 상호 작용 금지 또는 (가능성이 더 높다) 차단이다.왜 그 중 하나를 요구하지 않았니?분명히, 그 두 가지 질문에 모두 좋은 답이 있다면, 나는 기꺼이 내 의견을 말할 것이다.고마워, 블랙 카이트 (토크) 01:14, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 1. 보안관과 데브레서 사이의 분쟁에 자신을 끼워 넣은 이유(즉, 당신과 전혀 상관없는 일) - 검은 연
- 나는 이 두 편집자 중 어느 누구도 관여하지 않았고 아무런 이유도 없다.내가 ANI에 무언가를 제안할 수 있도록 정말 관여해야 할까? 또한 "왜 보안관과 디브레저 사이의 논쟁에 당신(블랙 카이트)이 당신 자신을 끼워 넣었는가"를 말해줘? 나는 지금 당신이 나에게 질식하는 캐스팅 --DBIGXrayray 01:29, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ ]을 계기로 매우 궁금하다
- 1. 보안관과 데브레서 사이의 분쟁에 자신을 끼워 넣은 이유(즉, 당신과 전혀 상관없는 일) - 검은 연
- 2. (WHY) 보안관에 대한 1RR 제한을 요청했는데, 이는 WP로 기소된 사람에게는 결코 현명한 제재가 될 수 없는 제재다.하운드?검은 연(토크) - 검은 연
- 만약 당신이 여기서 나의 답장을 읽었더라면 나는 이 실에서 내가 주목했던 편집 전쟁의 문제에 대한 나의 제안의 이유를 분명히 설명했을 것이다.만약 당신이 나의 제안이 나쁘다고 믿는다면, 당신은 내 제안을 무시하거나 심지어 반대해도 좋다. 단지 당신이 나의 제안을 싫어한다는 이유만으로 그것은 뻔뻔하게 거짓말을 시작하기에 충분한 이유이고 WP:Casting 질식 ? --DBIGXrayᗙ 01:29, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 2. (WHY) 보안관에 대한 1RR 제한을 요청했는데, 이는 WP로 기소된 사람에게는 결코 현명한 제재가 될 수 없는 제재다.하운드?검은 연(토크) - 검은 연
- Oh, User_talk:보안관 이신타운#your_recent_edits_on_Siachen_Glacier_desids_topic_ban.위키백과:조항_for_deletion/Tiger_Squad.위키백과:조항_for_deletion/Zahid_Ali_(정치인).이것들은 모두 최근 것이다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 01:28, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- User_talk:보안관 이신타운#Your_recent_edits_on_Siachen_Glacier_desids_topic_ban 이것은 자기반복을 위한 것이지, 논쟁은 아니었다.
- 위키백과:조항_for_deletion/Tiger_Squad 이것은 AfD이고 우리는 여느 AfD에서처럼 같은 의견을 가지고 있었다. 그것이 논쟁인가?
- 위키백과:조항_for_deletion/Zahid_Ali_(정치인).이것은 AfD이고 우리는 여느 AfD에서와 마찬가지로 분쟁이 아닌 다른 의견을 가지고 있었다.DBIGXray 01 01:35, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 위에서와 같은 어리석은 질문을 하는 대신에 이 실의 실제 주제를 다루면 좋을 것이다.anness. --DBIGXrayray 01:35, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
더 이상 입에 발을 담기 전에 이걸 닫아서 큰 부탁 하나 할게.편집자들이 거짓말을 한다고 비난하지 마라.그리고 다음 번에 이 포럼에 참석하여 다른 편집자들을 설득할 때는 좀 더 명확하고 깨끗하게 글을 써서 증거를 제시하십시오.편집자와 상의한 후.드레이미스 (토크) 01:33, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)}}}[ 하라
- 내가 보기에 1RR 제한은 "우리는 어떤 것을 해야 한다. 이것은 어떤 것이다. 그러므로 우리는 이것을 해야 한다"라는 형식인 것 같았다.디비그엑스레이가 인도-파키스탄의 여러 단골들이 흔히 저지르는 과도한 게시판 찍기에 익숙한지는 잘 모르겠다. 이것은 정직한 실수라고 할 수 있다. (나는 블랙 카이트 발언을 무시하고 부메랑만 생각하고 있다.)power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:44, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이미 내 제안서에서 편집전쟁은 내가 SIIT의 편집에서 본 이슈라고 말했었다. 그래서 나는 1RR가 그것을 완화하는데 도움을 줄 수 있다고 느꼈다.한 사람이 동의하지 않으면 그는 나의 제안에 반대할 수 있다.하지만 블랙 카이트가 한 일은 전혀 예상치 못한 충격이었다.DBIGXrayray 01:49, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 실타래는 데브레저의 하운드닝에 관한 것이었다.편집-워링을 꺼낸 사람은 너뿐이었고, 당신이 꺼낸 기사들 중에 데브레서나 원래 불만과는 전혀 관련이 없었다.넌 그냥 대화를 망쳐버렸어.그리고 그것이 여기에서의 나의 마지막 논평이다. 왜냐하면 명백하게 나의 질문은 "은밀하게" 되었기 때문이다.안녕히 주무세요.블랙 카이트 (토크) 01:55, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이미 내 제안서에서 편집전쟁은 내가 SIIT의 편집에서 본 이슈라고 말했었다. 그래서 나는 1RR가 그것을 완화하는데 도움을 줄 수 있다고 느꼈다.한 사람이 동의하지 않으면 그는 나의 제안에 반대할 수 있다.하지만 블랙 카이트가 한 일은 전혀 예상치 못한 충격이었다.DBIGXrayray 01:49, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 613계명, 포섹, 헬프 힐렐, 내가 연결한 이 세 기사는 모두 데브레서가 편집한 것이고 그 후 SIIT가 그를 괴롭혔다.또한 나는 이 세가지 기사에서 SIIT Edit Warring을 볼 수 있다.내가 여기서 보고 있는 것들을 너는 볼 수 없구나.내가 말했듯이, 나는 솔직히 내 제안이 문제를 해결하려고 노력하고 있고 어떤 식으로든 그것을 좌절시키지 않고 있다고 느꼈다. 다른 3명의 편집자들 또한 나의 제안을 지지했다.만약 당신이 나의 제안이 실마리를 잃었다고 믿는다면, 당신은 왜 그 문제에 대한 더 나은 해결책을 제안하지 않았는가? 그러나 데브레서가 여기에 가져온 문제에 대한 해결책을 찾는 대신에, 당신은 나를 공격하기로 결정했다.SIIT와 Debresser에 대한 토론의 "탈선이 아니다"라는 당신의 논평이 나를 공격하고 있는가?분명히 당신은 당신이 그곳에서 하고 있던 범죄에 대해 나를 고발하고 있다. --DBIGXrayray 02:05, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 오, 맙소사. 아직도 이해를 못 하는구나.그렇다, 그는 데브레서 이후 그것들을 편집했다. 우리는 그것을 알고 있다 - 그것이 원래 불평에 대한 것이었다.하지만, 그는 데브레서와의 전쟁을 편집하지 않았다 - 그것은 다른 사람(사실, 두 경우에 같은 사람)과의 전쟁이었다.편집 전쟁으로 그를 신고하고 싶다면 그럴 만한 곳이 있다.하지만 원래의 불평에 대한 대응으로 그것은 탈선일 뿐이다.1RR 제한이 원래 불만 사항을 해결하지는 못할 것이다. 만약 당신이 블록이나 주제 금지를 위해 각을 세웠다면 당신은 확고한 입장을 취했을 것이다.자, 이제 새벽 2시 20분인데, 정말 가야겠다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 02:22, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- SIIT는 여러 편집자들과의 전쟁을 편집하고 있었다. 그렇다 나는 그것을 문제로 보고 수정안을 제안했다.만약 내 해결책이 문제를 해결하지 못한다고 믿는다면, 그것은 당신이 경박한 주장으로 제안자를 공격하기 시작한다는 것을 의미하는가?너는 내가 많은 기사에 반대해서 내가 여기 있다고 말했는데, 너는 그런 기사를 한 개도 꺼내지 못하고 있어.너의 질책이 여기서 문제야. 그래서 내가 여기서 제기하고 있는거야.--DBIGXrayᗙ 02:37, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- DBigXray, ANI에서 이 스레드를 연 이유는?맨 위로 보기:이 페이지 [ANI]는 긴급한 사건 및 만성적이고 난해한 행동 문제에 대해 논의하기 위한 것이다.블랙 카이트의 단 한 마디는 네가 이 실을 열기 한 시간 전에 한 거야.문제 삼았다면 그것이 게재된 실에 대한 답변이나, 그의 토크 페이지에서 질의할 수도 있었다.대신, 당신은 한 시간 전에 한 코멘트에 대한 ANI 스레드를 즉시 열었다.나는 파괴적이고 보복적인 행동에 대해 부메랑을 추천한다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 02:31, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 부메랑을 지지하라, 기회가 있을 때 드레이즈와 이반벡터의 말을 들었어야 했다.이 언덕이 당신이 죽고 싶은 언덕이라면 그렇게 될 것. zchrykng (대화) 02:37, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 코멘트 위키피디아는 관료주의가 아니다. 블랙 카이트가 여러 기사에서 디비그엑스레이가 나와 갈등을 빚었다고 할 때 관료주의에서 취해진 것처럼 말로만 받아들여서는 안 된다.DBigXray가 다른 장소보다 기사를 더 많이 쓰지는 않아도 이전에도 나와 갈등을 겪었던 것은 사실이다.나는 항상 내가 그들에게 괴롭힘을 당하는 것처럼 느껴지고 그들은 내가 위에서 언급했던 어떤 식으로든 항상 나를 반대하기 위해 나타나는 단골 방문자들 중 한 명이다.보안관 ▷인터뷰 911 02:53, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나와 너 사이의 "충돌"이 정확히 어디서 일어났는지 말해줘.왜냐하면 나는 정말 우리 사이에 어떤 갈등도 일어나지 않았다고 생각하기 때문이다.그리고 우리 사이의 편집자 상호 작용 도구도 그러한 충돌을 발견할 수 없다. -DBIGXrayray 03:00, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
지지 마감 - 이 일에서 좋은 것은 아무것도 나오지 않을 것이다.–Davey2010Talk 02:49, 2018년 10월 30일(UTC)바로 아래 내 코멘트에 딱 들어맞았어.–Davey2010Talk 04:17, 2018년 10월 30일(UTC)- 폐쇄를 강력히 지지한다.부메랑도 없고, 피의 희생도 없고, FFS를 닫기만 하면 돼.많은 사람들은 이 실에 이런 단어를 타이핑하는 것이 인간의 손이라는 것을 잊고 있다.빅스가 화났어.그는 한 점을 잘못 이해했거나, 무슨 일이 그에게 일어났다.그는 지위가 좋은 노련한 편집장이다.다들 냉정하고 반성해야 해. 그리고 빌어먹을 누군가 이걸 닫아버려.그 프로젝트에 어떠한 피해도 입히지 않았고, 징벌적 제재도 필요하지 않았다.FWIW 나는 셰리프가 자재를 제거하는 대신에 시트에 필요한 태그를 추가하도록 강요되어야 한다고 생각한다.사이먼 애들러(토크) 03:21, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 디비그엑스레이7년 전 쯤에 내가 신참이었을 때 네가 날 도운 첫 편집자였어.사랑해요24시간 동안 진정해, 부탁할게, 그리고 난 구걸하지 않아.저기 '부메랑'이 있는 군중은 빅엑스가 24시간 동안 쉬게 한다.형, 그러면 닫을 수 있어그리고 제정신을 위해 아무것도 다시 열지 마!형, 해봐.사이먼 애들러 (대화) 03:38, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)
- 시몬 아들러 나는 냉정하다.나는 어처구니없는 질식에 짜증이 났고, 블랙 연이 그들 중 누구와도 사전 분쟁이 없는 것을 고려하면서 왜 그런 짓을 하겠느냐고 정말 궁금했다.분명히 그것은 나에게 아무런 타당한 근거도 없이 나쁜 믿음을 가정한 경우였다.만약 어떤 사람들이 이런 질식하는 나쁜 습관을 가지고 있다면, 그들은 그 문제들을 고쳐야 한다. --DBIGXrayᗙ 03:45, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- User:DBIGXray It have got you.그냥 놔둬.제발더 이상 내 친구는 안 된다고 말하는 거야.분노가 아니라 네 마음을 따르라.Si. Simon Adler (대화) 03:54, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 내 요점들이 토론할 가치가 있다고 믿으며, 그래서 실마리를 풀었고, 어쨌든 나는 다시 되돌렸다. --DBIGXrayᗙ 04:32, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- User:DBIGXray It have got you.그냥 놔둬.제발더 이상 내 친구는 안 된다고 말하는 거야.분노가 아니라 네 마음을 따르라.Si. Simon Adler (대화) 03:54, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 시몬 아들러 나는 냉정하다.나는 어처구니없는 질식에 짜증이 났고, 블랙 연이 그들 중 누구와도 사전 분쟁이 없는 것을 고려하면서 왜 그런 짓을 하겠느냐고 정말 궁금했다.분명히 그것은 나에게 아무런 타당한 근거도 없이 나쁜 믿음을 가정한 경우였다.만약 어떤 사람들이 이런 질식하는 나쁜 습관을 가지고 있다면, 그들은 그 문제들을 고쳐야 한다. --DBIGXrayᗙ 03:45, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- @Davey2010 및 Simon Adler:그것은 이미 Drmies[168]에 의해 닫혔고 Ivanvector는 닫힌 [169]를 단언했다.DBigXray는 이반벡터[170]와의 편집전을 통해 다시 시작했다.이제는 처음부터 실이 완전히 가공되지 않았기 때문에 부메랑이 필요한 시점이다. 이 문제는 문제의 편집자와 논의된 적이 없다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 03:52, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 아 맞다, 다른 관리자가 개입된 줄 몰랐어. 그런 경우 나도 부메랑 차단을 지지할 텐데, 만약 관리자가 이것을 닫고 완전히 다른 관리자가 당신을 되돌린다면 상식적으로 당신에게 다른 일을 하라고 말하겠지...... –Davey2010Talk 04:16, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 이제 스레드 사용자:DBigXray.당신이 실을 두 번 다시 열었다는 바로 그 사실은 당신이 일시적으로 심한 스트레스를 받았다는 것을 어떤 마음가짐의 동료에게 알려야 한다.이 사람은 오랫동안 훌륭한 일을 해 온 존경받는 동료다.어떤 '부메랑'이라도 그 점을 감안해야 한다.나는 행정적 경고가 어떤 보복의 정도가 되기를 바란다.사이먼 애들러 (대화) 04:44, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 시몬 아들러 1세는 블랙 카이트에게 답장을 올리다가 갈등을 겪었고 그 후 내 답장이 되돌아왔다.나는 코멘트를 올리기 위해 실을 딱 한 번 열었었다.나는 나의 걱정거리를 대답하고 메모해 두었다.그래서 누군가가 지금 이것을 종료하기로 결정해도 괜찮다. --DBIGXrayᗙ 04:56, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 이제 스레드 사용자:DBigXray.당신이 실을 두 번 다시 열었다는 바로 그 사실은 당신이 일시적으로 심한 스트레스를 받았다는 것을 어떤 마음가짐의 동료에게 알려야 한다.이 사람은 오랫동안 훌륭한 일을 해 온 존경받는 동료다.어떤 '부메랑'이라도 그 점을 감안해야 한다.나는 행정적 경고가 어떤 보복의 정도가 되기를 바란다.사이먼 애들러 (대화) 04:44, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 아 맞다, 다른 관리자가 개입된 줄 몰랐어. 그런 경우 나도 부메랑 차단을 지지할 텐데, 만약 관리자가 이것을 닫고 완전히 다른 관리자가 당신을 되돌린다면 상식적으로 당신에게 다른 일을 하라고 말하겠지...... –Davey2010Talk 04:16, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
프록시 열기
목록에 있는 사용자들은 이미 차단되었다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 29일 23:39 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
누군가가 모든 WP를 차단할 것인가:[171]에 나열된 프록시?예를 들어, 그러한 "대개 프록시"들은 이유가 있어서 proxy.ec.europa.eu으로 결정을 내린다.(편집인 때문이 아니라 대리인에 관한 것이다.)Tgeorgescu (대화) 20:04, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 그것들은 이미 차단되었다: 한 개는 직접, 그리고 한 개는 158.169.0.0/16이라는 더 큰 범위 블록의 일부분이다(블록 범위 · 블록 로그 (글로벌) · WHOIS (부분적)).이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 20:15, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
Carrie 94가 OverLink를 이해하지 못함
이해 도달, 주제 외 대화가 대화 페이지로 이동할 수 있음. --Moonedgirl 11:37, 2018년 10월 30일(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
WP에 대해 논의해 주시겠습니까?캐리랑 오버링크?다른 인포박스는 캐나다로 연결되기 때문에 CBC 키즈가 가이드라인에도 불구하고 갖고 있어야 하는데 편집자가 읽고 싶어하지 않는 것 같다.사실 3RR 문제가 아니라, 새로운 편집자를 교육하는 기회와 같다.월터 괴를리츠 (대화) 00:48, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 "규칙"을 이해하지만, 그것은 다른 기사들(예: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YTV_(TV_channel과 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treehouse_TV- 그리고 나는 YTV 기사를 편집한 적이 없고, 내가 언급하고 있는 어느 기사에 "캐나다" 링크를 넣지도 않았다)도 링크를 제거해야 한다는 것을 의미한다.캐리 94 (토크) 00:50, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 마침내 토론에 참여해줘서 고마워.이런 일이 당신의 토크 페이지에서 일어나야 하는데, 당신은 그것에 관여하지 않고 그것을 비운다.
- 네가 가리킨 기사들은 이미 고쳐졌다.나는 당신의 토크 페이지에서 디스커스를 하려고 할 때, WP와 함께 infobox를 찾고 있었다.오버링크.CBC 라디오 1에서가 아니라 머독 미스터리, 사물의 본질 또는 쉬트 크릭에서.OverLink를 위반하는 일부 항목을 발견한 다른 구체적인 예제가 있으십니까?그들은 그러지 말아야 하고 그것은 매우 쉬운 해결책이다.국가를 연결시킬 수 있는 문맥상 중요한 이유가 없는 한 연계되어서는 안 된다.오버링크는 그렇게 말하고 있다.월터 괴를리츠 (대화) 00:57, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 네가 나에게 똑같이 했기 때문에 나는 백지화했을 뿐인데, 다른 기사들도 고쳐줘서 고마워. 하지만 캐나다로 연결되는 기사(CBC Kids)에는 다른 부분이 없는데 왜 연결되면 안 되는 거지?그것과 가장 가까운 연결고리는 캐나다 텔레비전이다.주요 지리적 위치로의 연계가 일반적으로 바람직하지 않다는 것은 이해하지만, 몇 년 전 내가 편집자였을 때(IP Addresss를 사용했을 때), 기사가 국가에 관한 것이 아니더라도 국가는 infobox로 연결되어야 한다고 말한 다른 사용자와 같은 종류의 논쟁을 벌였다.내 말이 무슨 뜻인지, 왜 나라와 연계했는지 이해해 줬으면 좋겠다.나는 방해하려고 한 것이 아니라 단지 과거의 경험에 의해 움직였을 뿐이다.캐리 94 (토크) 01:00, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- (분쟁 편집) 여보세요, 캐리 94. : (다른 infobox들은) 정책이나 가이드라인에 맞게 편집해도 무방하지만, 선택한다면, 이미 편집된 것 같다.그러나 반대에 부딪히면 기사의 토크페이지에서 토론을 제기해야 한다.캐나다와 같은 일반적인 위치 용어를 연결하지 않는다는 가이드라인이 마음에 들지 않을 경우, 위키백과에서 항상 언급하십시오.스타일/링크 설명서이 규칙들은 합의에 의해 만들어졌고, 사람들은 그것들을 바꾸는 것에 동의할지도 모른다.그러나 그들은 매우 정당한 이유 없이 주요 변화에 일반적으로 동의하지는 않는다."캐나다"는 위키백과 기사를 읽을 정도로 영어를 잘 이해하는 사람들에게 흔히 알려져 있기 때문에 우리는 "캐나다"와 연결하지 않는다.이것은 우리가 몇 년 전에 사람들이 일반적으로 더 이해하는데 필요한 것들에 관심을 끌기 위해 만든 합의서 입니다. --Moonedgirl(talk) 01:05, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 설명해주셔서 감사합니다, 문라이드걸; 내가 왜 내가 했던 일을 했는지(과거 경험) 설명했다.나는 모든 편집자가 "맞지" 않다는 것을 알고 있고 불행히도 몇몇은 그들이 기사를 소유하고 있다고 생각하기를 좋아한다.만약 내가 그런 식으로 마주쳤다면 미안해.나는 우리가 이제 이 문제가 해결되었다고 말할 수 있기를 바란다.캐리 94 (토크) 01:08, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)그것은 사실이 아니다.링크를 제거하기 위해 스크립트를 적용했다.당신은 되돌아가서 가이드라인을 무시한 정보박스를 계속 가리켰다.만약 내가 내 토크 페이지를 비웠다는 뜻이라면, 그렇다. 왜냐하면 나는 내 토크 페이지에 모든 것을 한 곳에서 토론하라는 편집 공지가 있기 때문이다.나는 당신의 토크 페이지에 경고를 하고 토론을 시작했다.그리고 당신의 토크 페이지 이력에 근거해서, 당신은 어쨌든 거기서 토론에 참여하지 않는다.
- 이것이 원만한 결론에 도달해서 기쁘다.자매 기사(전부가 Overlinks가 있는 것은 아님)에 있는 Overlinks를 제거하고 표준 시간 형식을 적용했다.그들의 infobox를 검토해야 하는 다른 기사가 있는가?
- 만약 OLYership 코멘트가 나를 향한 것이었다면, 당신은 당신의 토크 페이지에 있는 이전 코멘트를 검토하기를 원할 것이다.월터 괴를리츠 (대화) 01:10, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 단지 이 통지가 있은 후에 그 문제에 대한 지식을 반영하고 그것이 목적이 아니었다는 것을 분명히 하고 싶었던 것이라고 의심한다.아마 이 문제에 대한 더 많은 토론이 여러분의 토크 페이지 중 하나로 옮겨질 수 있을 겁니다. 만약 있다면, 이 문제가 해결될 것 같긴 하지만.:) 캐리 94, 앞으로 또 의견충돌에 부딪히면 그만 두고 끝까지 이야기해 볼 것을 강력히 권한다.우리는 백과사전을 만드는 데 도움이 되지 않기 때문에 기사에 의견 불일치가 없다.24시간 동안 세 번 이상 되돌리는 것은 '밝은 선' 규칙을 어기는 것이지만, 한 번 이상 하면 문제가 발생할 수 있다.아주 타당한 이유가 없는 한 나는 대개 그렇게 하지 않을 것이다.그 이유에 대한 자세한 내용을 보려면 "전쟁 편집" 페이지를 읽어보십시오. --Moonedgirl(talk) 01:18, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 월터 괴를리츠, 그 글의 소유권은 당신을 향하지 않았다. 내가 좀 더 구체적으로 예를 들었어야 했다.2014년 한 배우의 페이지를 편집하던 중, 어떤 사람이 올라왔는데, 그들이 배우의 대표라고 하면서 참고자료 없이 여러 가지 정보를 추가했고, 참고문헌이 있는 정보를 삭제했으며, 편집 요약에서도 천박했다.더 이상 그 배우의 페이지를 팔로잉하거나 편집하는 것이 아니라 대표자가 그들의 행동에 대해 경고를 받았다.나는 지금 배우와 관련된 다른 기사들을 편집하고 있을지 모르지만, 지금까지 (배우에 관한 기사들에 관해) 어떤 대표자와도 마주치지 않았다.Also, as of right now, there are no other articles I can think of that need their infoboxes reviewed - I am from Canada and the articles you edited (regarding the infoboxes) are all TV stations that I have looked at during some point of when I was on Wikipedia, years ago and recently (CBC Kids, Treehouse TV, and YTV - the others Teletoon and Family Channel은 내가 2015년 12월에 휴식을 취하기 전까지 몇 년 동안 편집자였을 때 돌아보았다. 나는 복귀할 계획이 없었지만 최근에 결정을 내렸다. 하지만 나는 왜 그런지 잘 모르겠다.캐리 94 (토크) 01:37, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 단지 이 통지가 있은 후에 그 문제에 대한 지식을 반영하고 그것이 목적이 아니었다는 것을 분명히 하고 싶었던 것이라고 의심한다.아마 이 문제에 대한 더 많은 토론이 여러분의 토크 페이지 중 하나로 옮겨질 수 있을 겁니다. 만약 있다면, 이 문제가 해결될 것 같긴 하지만.:) 캐리 94, 앞으로 또 의견충돌에 부딪히면 그만 두고 끝까지 이야기해 볼 것을 강력히 권한다.우리는 백과사전을 만드는 데 도움이 되지 않기 때문에 기사에 의견 불일치가 없다.24시간 동안 세 번 이상 되돌리는 것은 '밝은 선' 규칙을 어기는 것이지만, 한 번 이상 하면 문제가 발생할 수 있다.아주 타당한 이유가 없는 한 나는 대개 그렇게 하지 않을 것이다.그 이유에 대한 자세한 내용을 보려면 "전쟁 편집" 페이지를 읽어보십시오. --Moonedgirl(talk) 01:18, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- (분쟁 편집) 여보세요, 캐리 94. : (다른 infobox들은) 정책이나 가이드라인에 맞게 편집해도 무방하지만, 선택한다면, 이미 편집된 것 같다.그러나 반대에 부딪히면 기사의 토크페이지에서 토론을 제기해야 한다.캐나다와 같은 일반적인 위치 용어를 연결하지 않는다는 가이드라인이 마음에 들지 않을 경우, 위키백과에서 항상 언급하십시오.스타일/링크 설명서이 규칙들은 합의에 의해 만들어졌고, 사람들은 그것들을 바꾸는 것에 동의할지도 모른다.그러나 그들은 매우 정당한 이유 없이 주요 변화에 일반적으로 동의하지는 않는다."캐나다"는 위키백과 기사를 읽을 정도로 영어를 잘 이해하는 사람들에게 흔히 알려져 있기 때문에 우리는 "캐나다"와 연결하지 않는다.이것은 우리가 몇 년 전에 사람들이 일반적으로 더 이해하는데 필요한 것들에 관심을 끌기 위해 만든 합의서 입니다. --Moonedgirl(talk) 01:05, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 네가 나에게 똑같이 했기 때문에 나는 백지화했을 뿐인데, 다른 기사들도 고쳐줘서 고마워. 하지만 캐나다로 연결되는 기사(CBC Kids)에는 다른 부분이 없는데 왜 연결되면 안 되는 거지?그것과 가장 가까운 연결고리는 캐나다 텔레비전이다.주요 지리적 위치로의 연계가 일반적으로 바람직하지 않다는 것은 이해하지만, 몇 년 전 내가 편집자였을 때(IP Addresss를 사용했을 때), 기사가 국가에 관한 것이 아니더라도 국가는 infobox로 연결되어야 한다고 말한 다른 사용자와 같은 종류의 논쟁을 벌였다.내 말이 무슨 뜻인지, 왜 나라와 연계했는지 이해해 줬으면 좋겠다.나는 방해하려고 한 것이 아니라 단지 과거의 경험에 의해 움직였을 뿐이다.캐리 94 (토크) 01:00, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
홀로코스트 부정 지지자들과 상대편을 비교하는 것
경박한 불만.구멍의 법칙에 따라 닫기(그리고 잠재적으로 WP:NCR).가이(도움말!) 11시 28분, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
히틀러가 명백한 채식주의자나 논쟁의 여지가 있는 RfC 날씨가 있다.대부분의 토론자들이 예의 바르게 행동하고 있는 반면, 사용자: 가이 마콘은 히틀러의 3~4명의 지지자들을 명백한 채식주의자가 아닌 유대인 대학살 지지자들과 비교하고 있다.이것은 나에게 개인적으로 모욕적일 뿐만이 아니다.토론의 수준을 낮추려는 노골적인 시도이기도 하다.또한 전체 위키피디아에 간접적으로 얼룩진 점을 주목하는 것이 중요하다. 이 사용자가 유대인 대학살을 부정하는 주장이 수년간 현 상태를 유지해왔다.
나는 관리자들에게 이 사용자가 이 비교에 사과하고 예의 바르게 행동할 것을 요청해 줄 것을 요청한다.
감사합니다.
마테오 (대화) 09:22, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 부메랑 - 그는 절대 홀로코스트 거부를 말한 적이 없다.그는 WP가 다음과 같이 말했다.프린지, 그렇지.그 두 가지는 아주 다른 것이고 명백한 거짓말일 때 네가 그런 주장을 하는 것은 솔직하지 못하다.나는 당신이 이 진술을 철회할 것을 제안한다. 그렇지 않으면 당신은 그러한 끔찍한 인신공격으로 인해 차단될 수도 있다. --타라지 (대화) 09:47, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 넌 가이에게도 이 사실을 알리지 못했어, 꼭 필요한 일이지나는 너를 대신해서 그것을 했다.다시 한 번 이 인신공격 철회를 강력히 권한다. --타라지 (대화) 09:49, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 타라지, 그는 "채식주의자"라고 말했다.히틀러의 채식주의는 홀로코스트가 일어났는지, 백신이 자폐증을 일으키는지와 같은 방식으로 '분열'된다."[172. 프람 (대화) 09:54, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 여전히 "당신은 X와 Y와 같은 프린지 이론을 믿는다"고 말하는 것과 "당신은 홀로코스트 데니어"라고 말하는 것 사이에는 큰 차이가 있다고 생각한다.후자는 매우 심각한 주장으로 실제 증거를 뒷받침해야 한다. --타라지 (대화) 09:56, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 감사합니다, 프람.그는 실제로 두 번이나 이런 말을 했고 내가 정중하게 중단을 요청했을 때 더 밀어붙였다. 말하라, 네가 나에게 쓴 선동적인 언어를 사용하기 전에 더 조심해야 한다.나는 또한 그에게 꼬리표를 달았는데, 나는 그것이 통지의 효과가 있다고 생각했다.마테오 (토크) 10:04, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 타라지, 그는 "채식주의자"라고 말했다.히틀러의 채식주의는 홀로코스트가 일어났는지, 백신이 자폐증을 일으키는지와 같은 방식으로 '분열'된다."[172. 프람 (대화) 09:54, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 논평) @Mateo: 당신이 이 실을 열기 3일 전에 GM이 당신에게 "카운터파트" 대 "소스"에 대해 정정해 주었다.위의 잘못된 표현에 대해 철회하고 사과하십시오. 그러면 우리는 비교가 적절한지 아닌지에 대해 토론할 수 있다.아니면, 오히려, 우리는, 그것이 내용상의 논쟁거리인 것처럼, 그리고 그가 하지 않은 것을 그가 말했다는 당신의 거듭된 주장으로 인해 불쾌감을 느껴서는 안 된다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 10:37, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 논쟁의 출처(그리고 우리는 알려진 역사학자, 작가, 그 외 다른 사람들에 대해 이야기 하고 있다)를 말하면서 밀어붙이는 것은 이전의 진술의 수정은 아니다.반대의이것은 사람들이 이러한 원천을 사용하는 것을 막기 위해 행해진 것이고 단지 이 휘발성 있고 불필요한 비교를 더하기 위한 것이다.마테오 (토크) 10:44, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 그러니까... 솔직하게 거짓말을 했다는 걸 인정하고 지금 이 사실에도 불구하고 이게 ANI에게 여전히 유효한 주제라고 말하는 건가?어쨌든 어떤 관리 작업을 요청하십니까?당신은 GM이 차단되고 그의 논평이 당신의 "측면"이 RFC에서 "점"의 조금 더 큰 비율을 차지하게 되기를 원하는가?채식주의자, 그리고 채식주의자 위키피디아 사람들은 히틀러가 일반 대중과 비교해서 채식주의자라는 생각에 치우쳐 있을 것이라는 것은 기정사실처럼 보인다.존경할 만한 히틀러 학자들의 대다수가 그를 채식주의자로 간주한다면, 그렇지 않다고 말하는 것은 실로 첨예한 관점이다.그러나 나는 모른다: ANI는 그런 종류의 토론을 할 수 있는 장소가 아니다.GM은 X가 프린지 POV라고 사실적인 주장을 했고, 역사의 관련 분야에서 잘 알려진 또 다른 프린지 POV와 주관적으로 비교했다.그의 비교는 결함이 있었다고 말할 수 있다(그리고 사용자:베티 로건은 GM의 의견에 동의하고 기사로 무엇을 해야 하는지에 대해 너와 의견이 다르지만, 나는 그녀가 그의 반대자들을 나치에 비교함으로써 GM God가 이 남자처럼 토론을 이기는 것으로 보지는 않을 것이다.우선, 만약 그가 문제의 출처를 비난한다면, 부적절하게, 그들의 집단을 특정한 나치로부터 분리시키려고 시도했다는 것인데, 그것은 당신이 그를 비난하고 있는 것과 반대되는 것이다.히지리 88 (聖聖) 11:21, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 논쟁의 출처(그리고 우리는 알려진 역사학자, 작가, 그 외 다른 사람들에 대해 이야기 하고 있다)를 말하면서 밀어붙이는 것은 이전의 진술의 수정은 아니다.반대의이것은 사람들이 이러한 원천을 사용하는 것을 막기 위해 행해진 것이고 단지 이 휘발성 있고 불필요한 비교를 더하기 위한 것이다.마테오 (토크) 10:44, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
UAE에서 IP 사용자 삭제 컨텐츠
보고 사용자는 적절한 게시판으로 안내되었다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 30일 14시 12분(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
하이야, IP 사용자가 이미지를 지우고 자이드 빈 술탄 알 나흐얀과 같은 UAE 유명 인사들의 페이지를 비우게 된다.IP는 86.98.79.26이다.Ta. Alexandermcnabb (대화) 09:58, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ 하라
- @Alexandermcnabb:위키피디아를 원하시겠죠?관리자_간섭_against_vandalism.스포팅플라이어 토크 09:59, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
- 알았어, 고마워알렉산더mcnabb (대화) 10:03, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ 하라
Talk에 대한 요청 사항:자이르 보우소나루...
...명백한 이유로.나는 오늘 밤을 승인할 예정이지만, 너의 도움은 정말 고마워.GABgab 01:24, 2018년 10월 29일 (UTC)[
- 자이르 보우소나루 토크 페이지에는 반유대주의적인 언급이 있다.
- "글쎄, 그는 당선되었어.그래서 위키백과 0, 브라질 1. (영어 위키백과에 관한 기사가 큰 차이를 만들었을 리는 없지만, [REDACTED - 오슈와]라고 확신한다.)"
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jair_Bolsonaro#Biased_article_failed_to_prevent_Bolsonaros_victory — 2001년까지 추가된 이전의 부호 없는 의견:8003:4100:9800:4864:94AA:944A:2EAA (대화 • 기여)
- GeneralizationAreBad - 물론, 브라우저 탭 중 하나에 열어 두고 계속 주시할 것이다.잘 자! :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2018년 10월 29일(UTC) 16:24[
- 감시 목록도 같이 볼 거야 군집토크 21:18, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[
데이비드 토르네하임은 RFC의 질문을 잘못 전달하여 조사하였다.
데이비드 토르네하임, 그리고 여기서 논평을 낸 몇몇 편집자들은 위키피디아에서 간단히 설명하듯이, RfC 질문을 문구 변경으로 잘못 전달하는 것은 "캠페인"이라고 알려진 선거운동의 한 형태로 분류된다는 것을 상기한다.유세#부적절한 알림.David은 공식적으로 향후의 탐문 조사의 어떤 예도 차단을 초래할 수 있다는 경고를 받는다.나는 여러 사용자들이 이러한 행동을 옹호하고 있으며, 나는 이 모든 주장을 읽었고, 그것이 왜 선거운동을 하지 않는지에 대한 설득력 있는 정책 기반 반론들을 볼 수 없다고 본다.실제로 이러한 모든 주장은 WP를 완전히 무시하는 것처럼 보인다.CAN#Campaign 마치 존재하지 않는 것처럼.그래서 데이빗을 옹호하는 이 사용자들은 이것에 대해 달가워하지 않겠지만, 그러한 주장들이 정책과 맞지 않는다는 것이 나의 평가고, 나의 재량적인 행정 조치는 이 실수에 대응하여 기록에 대해 공식적인 경고를 하는 것이다.나는 이 쓰레드에 관련된 사용자들에게 WP를 다시 살펴보라고 강력히 권고하고 싶다.COVERING은 위키백과 규범의 매우 심각하고 근본적인 측면이며 WP의 전체 시스템을 보호하기 때문이다.전체 프로젝트가 통제되는 컨센서스는 악의적으로 조작되고 남용되는 것에서 비롯된다.부적절한 통보 관행을 외면하는 것은 별일 아닌 것처럼 보일 수 있지만 가장 근본적인 차원에서 사업의 청렴성을 훼손하는 일이다. 군집토크 19:54, 2018년 10월 30일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
여기서 그것에 대해 질문하고 여기서 질문을 기각했다.또한 여성들이 위키피디아에서 괴롭힘을 당하기 때문에 WP:페미니즘 및 WP:여자들은 특히 "젠장"이라는 단어의 사용에 관심이 있을 것이다.[177] [178] 나는 그가 이 행동이 적절하다고 생각할 것이라는 것을 믿을 수 없다는 것을 넘어서 뭐라고 말해야 할지 모르겠다.누가 제발 그만 좀 하라고 말해줄래?
또한 사용자 ping:짐보의 토크 페이지에서도 이것에 대해 의문을 제기한 가이 마콘.
히지리 88 (聖や) 05:12, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 논평) 짐보의 토크 페이지에 올린 그의 글은 내가 어떻게 RFC를 찾았는가에 관한 것이었지만 (감시목록을 가지고 있기 때문에) 그렇다, 그것은 정말 선거운동이다.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 05:14, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- RFC에 코멘트를 했기 때문에 (RFC를 찾은 것이 데이빗의 행동의 결과였기 때문에) 그 사실을 공개해야겠다고 생각했지만, 당시 짐보의 토크 페이지에 올린 글에 대해서는 그리 많이 생각하지 않았다(사람들이 "짐보, 이것에 대해 어떻게 생각하느냐"고 묻는 것을 자주 보아왔기 때문에) 그러나 이러한 확산은 골치 아픈 일이다.누군가가 RFC를 어떻게 발견했는지를 조사하는 것도 나쁘지 않을 것이다. 왜냐하면 그것은 분명히 토론에 영향을 미칠 것이기 때문이다.—Mythdon (대화 • 기여) 05:29, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 이 실의 제목은 '(불운 댓글과 비난 삭제)'가 토크 페이지에서 당신에게 부탁한 선의의 질문을 토의하는 시민적 방법이었어야 했다.나는 지금까지 이것을 알아차리지 못했는데, 이건 정말 멋지지 않아.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 05:34, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- 데이빗에게 꺼져라고 말하고 싶군...상승... --Tarage (토크) 08:26, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- 선거운동의 고발이 이렇게 잘려나가고 마는 경우는 드물지만, 그 질문을 노골적으로 잘못 전달함으로써, 특히 "캠페인"을 하게 된다.@David Tornheim: 실수하지 마십시오, 이것은 전체 프로젝트가 통제되는 시스템을 근본적으로 파괴하는 믿을 수 없을 정도로 심각한 범죄 입니다.메시지를 지우고 있는데, 당신은 즉시 우리에게 당신이 큰 일을 망쳤다는 것과 다시는 그런 일이 없을 것이라는 것을 이해한다는 확신을 주어야 한다. 이런 종류의 일은 합리적으로 당신을 비보호영역 IMO에 몰아넣는다. 군집토크 09:12, 2018년 10월 28일 (UTC)[
- I refer David Tornheim to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram. He did canvass, but I don't see that it had had any real effect. More troubling is the conversation he and I had on Jimbo's talk page[179] where he was a poster boy for WP:IDHT. The question is what to do. Although a short block would be justified, how about letting this one go with a strongly-worded warning? --Guy Macon (talk) 09:28, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- FWIW, when I wrote this I held out some hope that David's recent disruptive editing was just the result of a good-faith misunderstanding (hence my apologizing in advance if it turned out that was the case), but his behaviour since (including not only the above unambiguous canvassing but his responding to me by attempting to ping in five users who he probably thought would disagree with me) has pretty well convinced me that he's trying to be disruptive at this point, and it's somewhat gratifying to see that Swarm, above, agrees with my opinion (unstated, except here, more than a month ago) that he might be en route to an indefinite block. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:37, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
by claiming that since women get harassed on Wikipedia, WP:FEMINISM and WP:WOMEN must be particularly interested in the use of the word "fuck"
Which is correct. Women have been harassed with incivility, especially the 'C word' has been an issue. See the ArbCom case WP:ARBGGTF. It's pretty obvious that abusive language is counterproductive to welcoming a diverse userbase. As for David's comment at Jimbo's talk page: yeah, he could have just used the wording of the RfC instead of the conclusion. It's not a massive strecht to say that if telling people repeatedly to "fuck off" isn't being sanctioned, then de facto we're not applying WP:CIV to that phrase. Also Jimbo's talkpage has so many watchlisters it's hardly the best place to canvass people with a specific POV, and I doubt anyone !voted on the RfC without actually reading what it's about. --Pudeo (talk) 10:43, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
Women have been harassed with incivility, especially the 'C word' has been an issue.
Which would be great, if the C word (or the B word or the W word, for that matter, although I've never actually seen the latter used as an insult in Wikipedia project discussions) were under discussion; "fuck off" is only gendered insofar as saying "this sucks" is -- yeah, the logic that fucking is not a bad thing while being fucked is, and that sucking is a bad thing but being sucked is fine is an unfortunate relic of a pre-1970s world where sex was inherently about male dominance, but very few people who use these expressions nowadays are even aware of their sexist origins. Furthermore, David's history of permissiveness when it comes to citing Breitbart.com as a source would appear to indicate that he's not actually a great advocate of diversity and welcoming of women and ethnic minorities on this project; it's just a cover. And it's precisely because of the large number of watchers of Jimbo's talk page that telling them that the question of whether "fuck off" is a civil expression is under discussion is problematic: he's implanting his deliberate misrepresentation of the issue on the largest audience he can. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:00, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- This section says someone is canvassing to get people to comment on an RFC. But the poster, User:Hijiri does not tell us which RFC, instead leaving us to follow likes to comments by the person accused of "canvassing". Can someone say how he misrepresents the question? This question, quoting verbatim, is this: "Request for comment on the specific term "fuck off" – sanctionable or not!" The so-called "canvassing" says " hope you all weigh in on Wikipedia_talk:Civility#Request_for_comment_on_the_specific_term_"fuck_off"_–_sanctionable_or_not! this discussion on whether it is civil to repeatedly say "fuck off" to other editor." How is that a misrepresentation? At WP:Canvass it says "Canvassing is notification done with the intention of influencing the outcome of a discussion in a particular way". His comment just says "I hope you weigh in on" the matter. That is neutral. Michael Hardy (talk) 13:18, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Seriously?
- The RfC question is...
- "Should the repetitive usage of the term "fuck off" by an editor targeted at other editors be considered "sanctionable""
- ...which David Tornheim changed to...
- "Is it perfectly civil to say "fuck off" to other editors?"
- and you can't see any difference between those two questions?
- Note that this was` in the context of a strong consensus that the phrase is uncivil and the user should stop saying it, combined with a strong consensus that in many cases it is not a blockable offense -- exactly what David Tornheim purposely misrepresented. --Guy Macon (talk) 15:33, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- FWIW, MH is hardly a neutral observer here. DT was one of a few editors who defended MH's own grossly uncivil behaviour (and attacks on MPants) during a recent arbitration case, and shortly before I opened this discussion (when DT could probably see it coming), DT directly requested MH contribute more to ANI discussions as a "neutral editor" and "voice against harassment".[180][181][182] Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:35, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Note that this was` in the context of a strong consensus that the phrase is uncivil and the user should stop saying it, combined with a strong consensus that in many cases it is not a blockable offense -- exactly what David Tornheim purposely misrepresented. --Guy Macon (talk) 15:33, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Not canvassing - per WP:Canvassing:In general, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus. It is also acceptable to notify Editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics) . It does not prohibit paraphrasing what the discussion is about. Some editors seem to think it is only acceptable to notify others in the manner delsort does at AfD. Atsme✍🏻📧 18:32, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- The notifications are required to be neutral and to be focused. Are you claiming that was the case here? I can't see that those requirements were met, so I'd would say that it was definitely CANVASSING. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:16, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- BMK - the opening statement of the RfC states: There are a few terms that may be derogatory to some but are generally acceptable in talk page/edit summary usage; amongst these, one such term is "fuck off". What statement in DT’s notice are you claiming is definitely canvassing? I’m doing my best to see all sides of this case but quite frankly, it is quite difficult to stay focused after reading the unwarranted accusations made by the OP in what appears to be an attempt to totally destroy the credibility of another editor. I find that very disconcerting, particularly this diff wherein he implies DT has something against women and minorities simply because he cited an unreliable source. WTF? And then he proceeds to attack Hardy for no apparent reason other than he simply doesn’t agree with the OP. Is the goal to polarize, intimidate and denigrate those who are opposed to the f-bomb being used in certain contexts? I consider that kind of behavior far more disruptive than using Jimbo’s highly trafficked TP to notify others about the RfC. And for what it’s worth, my grandchildren read WP, the youngest now 8 yo, and I certainly don’t want them to think it’s ok to tell people to fuck-off because they read it in WP. I think it’s time for us to start paying closer attention to how things we say effect our readers, and less about ourselves and our need to vent or let off steam. We have user TP to do that. Atsme✍🏻📧 03:29, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Atsme asks: "What statement in DT’s notice are you claiming is definitely canvassing?"
- The RfC question is...
- "Should the repetitive usage of the term 'fuck off' by an editor targeted at other editors be considered 'sanctionable'?"
- to which the consensus is clear: often yes (out of the blue on an article talk page, for example), sometimes no (on your own talk page, responding to someone who has been hounding you across Wikipedia and who has repeatedly called you a shithead, asshole, retard and nigger, for example).
- But David Tornheim didn't ask that question in his notice -- knowing that a lot of people would come to the same "context matters" conclusion. No. That wasn't acceptable to David. He had to misrepresent the RfC to make it sound like something that pretty much everyone would answer "no" to. So David Tornheim, in his notice, claimed that the RfC question was...
- "Is it perfectly civil to say "fuck off" to other editors?".
- Not "sanctionable".
- Not even "civil".
- No. he had to transmogrify the question to "perfectly civil", just to get a few extra no votes.
- He knew from reading the many comments on the RfC that most of the people who responded "depends on the context" to the "is it sanctionable" question also would say "no" if asked "is it civil" and "yes" if asked "should the editor who keeps dropping the F bombs stop".
- So he misrepresented the nature of the RfC in order to attract !voters who would agree with his position.
- And THAT is clear and unambiguous canvassing. --Guy Macon (talk) 06:59, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Guy, I disagree, even though we've pretty much been on the same page in the past, give or take a few times. The arguments I've seen so far appear more like inadvertent preconceived notions as to what DT might have been thinking. We all know the RfC is about civility that may or may not require sanctioning - it's taking place on Talk: Civility - so there's no reason for the RfC to say the word "civil". DT's use of "perfectly civil" is nothing more than bad grammar - an editor's behavior is either civil or it's not - it's either sanctionable or it's not - nothing is "perfectly" anything, so go ahead and chastise him for crappy grammar but he wasn't canvassing. More importantly, I think the attention here needs to be focused on how DT was notified per Wikipedia:Canvassing#How to respond to canvassing (a behavioral guideline, not a policy). Nothing DT has posted in his notices or here was "disruptive". A few of the objections to DT's notices have been more disruptive than anything he's done. We can start with the procedure we're supposed to follow for suspected canvassing which requires a polite notice on the TP of the alleged offender. That isn't what I saw on DT's TP - the OP demanded and made allegations in his first notice to DT on Oct 27th. Look at the date/time stamp - DT did not post any notices after the OP's demand to stop. Yet, the very next day , the OP notified DT of this ANI. I just hope the behavior that needs to be noticed here is not going unnoticed. Atsme✍🏻📧 23:16, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Observation: The only way a notification of a contentious RfC is not canvassing is when it is neutral and brief, and placed on an appropriate (non-biased, non-partisan) noticeboard or non-user talk. User talk:Jimbo Wales could conceivably meet the latter requirement (although that's debatable since it is generally a space for ranting). But the first two conditions were not met, so this is indeed WP:CANVASSING, particularly since, after the initial (in this case non-neutral) post, the thread was certain to devolve into rants as noted in my previous sentence. The place to centrally advertise a contentious RfC is WP:Centralized discussion, which the RfC creator attempted to do but was over-ruled. David Tornheim's posting at Jimbo's talk seems to be a POV and non-neutral run-around. Had the user posted merely a pointer to the RfC, without commentary, and insisted that all commentary be held at the RfC and not on Jimbo's talk, that might have been acceptable, but still highly problematical since it's hard to keep rants off of Jimbo's talkpage. Softlavender (talk) 19:12, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- I am the very model of a highly problematical. EEng 23:21, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Fuck off. Softlavender (talk) 23:25, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- That's it. I'm reporting you at ANI. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 23:28, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- "Softlavender gave me advice about sex and travel". 173.228.123.166 (talk) 05:26, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- That's it. I'm reporting you at ANI. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 23:28, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Fuck off. Softlavender (talk) 23:25, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Not canvassing - per Atsme, whose reasoning and follow up comment make a lot of sense to me. Jusdafax (talk) 05:46, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Canvassing per WP:TRANSMOGRIFYTHEQUESTION and WP:PICKANDCHOOSEYOURCANVASSEES. -Roxy, in the middle. wooF 07:34, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- This isn't a straw poll to determine whether or not it was canvassing, certainly not by involved users who agree with David in the RfC. WP:CAN specifically explains what forms of notification are considered to be "inappropriate", and manipulating the wording to get a desired reaction is quite objectively a prohibited notification practice. The RfC question was "is saying 'fuck off' sanctionable", and David, in all four notifications, falsely presented the RfC question as "is saying 'fuck off' civil". Obviously, if it were actually the latter question that was being asked, there would be an overwhelming 'yes' response, because no reasonable person would classify saying 'fuck off' as a 'civil' phrase. However, the actual question is substantially more nuanced and deals with the controversial practice of civility enforcement. David expressed a strong opinion in the RfC, and misrepresented the RfC question in his notifications in a way that would blatantly provoke a strong emotional response. Swarm talk 09:10, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Swarm, just an observation - DT asked Jimbo a question: Jimbo, I'm curious whether you think it is perfectly civil to say "fuck off" to other editors? He did not select Jimbo on the basis of his opinion; rather, he was asking for his opinion. His comment on the TP of Snow Rise was simply "I hope you all weigh in on Wikipedia_talk:Civility#Request_for_comment_on_the_specific_term_"fuck_off"_–_sanctionable_or_not! this discussion on whether it is civil to repeatedly say "fuck off" to other editor." The heart of the RfC is civility, so what difference would it have made if, instead of using "civility", DT had said "....on whether it is "sanctionable" to repeatedly say "fuck off" to other editors."? At the RfC, the OP had to qualify their use of sanctionable by adding "Sanctionable" refers to the broad universe of escalating warnings, which may lead to blocks, bans, restrictions etcetera if the editor ignores these warnings. Civil was a much easier choice for a summary without having to add the details. Now on the flip side, if he had said, "Spewing profanities like "fuck-off" are unprofessional and rude so is it civil to repeatedly say fuck off to other editors? Weigh-in at this RfC." <--- now that would be Campaigning: Posting a notification of discussion that presents the topic in a non-neutral manner. Atsme✍🏻📧 02:57, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Not canvassing WP:CANVASSING states plainly that "it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions". The postings in question seemed reasonably open, limited and neutral and so were compliant with that guideline. Meanwhile others are trying to suppress listing of this RfC at centralized_discussion and that seems more remarkable. We should encourage a wide participation in this matter so that a good consensus is obtained. Of course, listing the matter at ANI will tend to have a similar effect – see the Streisand effect. Andrew D. (talk) 09:53, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- The above blatant hounding of me is unacceptable and will have to be dealt with in due time, but needless to say the opinion stated therein is nonsense, particularly the jab at me in the last sentence: I'm not trying to hide the RFC, so the Streisand effect has nothing to do with it; my problem is with the blatant misrepresentation going on in DT's "notifications". Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:45, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Comment Why, after it was already pointed out that this was not a straw-poll, does it still seem like it's just editors who like DT (or don't like me, of MPants, or whoever) showing up to say it's not canvassing against everyone else? DT has gone silent since this thread was opened (his longest time not editing in two weeks), apparently in the hopes that Swarm's ultimatum will get archived before he "gets a chance to respond". @Swarm: I'd suggest you place your warning and request for an explanation/apology/promise-not-to-do-it-again on DT's talk page so that doesn't happen. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:43, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- That observation about not-a-straw-poll strikes a chord with me. There are a couple of battle-lines that go back to the ArbCom GMO case (and an unrelated one that is specifically about Hijiri88), that seem to be replayed here. Whoever the admin is who decides about this should approach it with that in mind. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:59, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- For the record, my past "beef" with David is limited to this ANI thread and its fallout (my memory of it is that David undermined a legitimate discussion I opened about a problem user with the claim that all they needed was mentoring, volunteered to be their mentor, then aggressively refused to do anything, but if I'm wrong I'd be happy to retract this if presented with evidence), and these two ANI threads and another incident related to GMO (I wasn't involved in the original case, and just commented to the effect that I thought David's block had been too short). Ironically enough, MPants actually was, basically, on David's side in the former (ANIArchive949) and that was one of the incidents I was referring to when I described MPants as having a frustratingly high tolerance and being too civil when interacting with disruptive editors in the discussion that brought on this RFC. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:19, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Oh, wait, I see what was being referred to. Yes, I suspect at least one editor showed up here specifically to undermine me without even looking at this context enough to know that the Streisand effect doesn't apply. Yes, I too hope whichever admin closes this takes factor into account before they start counting "votes". Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:35, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I meant the latter. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:24, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. The discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Civility#Request_for_comment_on_the_specific_term_"fuck_off"_–_sanctionable_or_not! is really enlightening. And, intended or not, the present ANI thread has been an efficient canvassing/forum_shopping maneuver to attract more eyes to this main discussion. Roughly summarizing, the question turns around
with the premise that Wikipedia should be inclusive for all global communities involved in editing ... re-assess [the] current community consensus on the talk page usage of the term "fuck off" targeted at other editors
. Part of the participants appears to be afraid that more formal civility could really attract a more diverse set of writers... while another part appears to not understand that being treated as an endangered species is rather repulsive.
- Anyway, pretending that this tally at the main discussion is not representative of en:wp is surprising... and moreover has not been sustained in any convincing way. May be it's time to snow close this discussion (and the main one as well). After all, articles could exist to be created/expanded about the 2019 nominees to the Nobel Prizes. Pldx1 (talk) 12:02, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Holy shit! Now a second editor with a bone to pick with me (who I'm frankly shocked hasn't been indeffed already, after this and the two previous discussions linked at the top thereof) is showing up to have a crack at this. I'm really considering asking for a one-way IBAN, since no one seems to be willing to indef a troll who makes content edits in topics that are niche enough that few good admins are willing to assume they can recognize the trolling. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:23, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- BTW, "global communities" in the above editor's post refers to Korean nationalist editors who insist on disregarding the best international scholarship in favour of ROK school textbooks. User:SMcCandlish can perhaps back me up on this, if he remembers the dispute at all; I hardly do, but clearly Pldx1 does. Granted, I never actually sought sanctions against the latter for their Korean nationalist POV-pushing so much as their simple trolling, but I did open or significantly contribute to the ANI discussions that got the openly racist KoreanSentry (talk · contribs) and the sinophobic serial plagiarist Richeaglenoble (talk · contribs) banned; am I now being called out for that? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:33, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
At worst only the post to Mr Wales can be even vaguely seen as canvasing, the other (literally) are a one word posts just informing users of the thread (and this is not canvasing, as stated in policy, you are allowed to inform users). It is also hard to see the post to Mr Wales as canvasing, as it does not take sides in essence.Slatersteven (talk) 13:56, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- So many seasoned editors are happy to let direct insults slide, but a slight rewording when informing others about an RfC needs sanctions? This is squabbling. Close this thread, please. Fences&Windows 18:53, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- I agree, Fences and windows - it also appears the OP has been canvassing - inadvertently perhaps but pinging for support nonetheless - while he's off on a tangent about Korean nationalists and believing that everyone who doesn't agree with his POV are motivated by ill-will. I'm also hoping an uninvolved admin will close soon. We all have bigger fish to fry. 🎣 Atsme✍🏻📧 19:08, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- This was a dubious (and I think outright spurious, and malicious) ANI that had no validity. This (at the very minimum) should be closed now.Slatersteven (talk) 19:12, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Comment post-close. I have no opinion about whether or not it was canvassing, and I have no objection to the close. But I think that some of the last comments, that were cited by the close, were needlessly insulting. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:35, 30 October 2018 (UTC) The original close was reverted, so this comment does not apply to the final close. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:08, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
User:SportsFan007
Not necessary as they have apologised and the other users can speak for themselves. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 13:03, 31 October 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
SportsFan007 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) Today, this user try to move page Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Soccer and move page Wikipedia talk:WikiProject American football to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject football without any discussion first. Then some admins and some experienced editors leave some messages on their talk page (now removed by this user), perm links: [183] [184] [185] [186] [187]. However, this user regarded this edit as rude comment per [188] and this edit as rude comment [189] and threaten GiantSnowman and Govvy that they would be reported. So I think we should have some comments about SportsFan007 here Hhkohh (talk) 12:49, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
@Hhkohh: I already apologized for that, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#My Apologies SportsFan007 (talk) 12:55, 31 October 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007
- GiantSnowman's comment was indeed rude; Govvy's not so much but they were being bombarded. As noted, they've already apologized for the whole incident, there's no need to raise more drama here. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:57, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you so much!!! SportsFan007 (talk) 12:59, 31 October 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007
- (edit conflict)Note that when I typed this, SportsFan007 apologized, but what about your comments on these two users talk page? Hhkohh (talk) 13:01, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- GiantSnowman's comment was indeed rude; Govvy's not so much but they were being bombarded. As noted, they've already apologized for the whole incident, there's no need to raise more drama here. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:57, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Reset a rangeblock for North Carolina
Block has been extended to one year. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 08:53, 31 October 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can we re-block Special:Contributions/2600:1700:F91:A610:0:0:0:0/64? The genre warring has resumed.
Last year at this time the range was blocked for six months. Other ranges have been involved in the past, which is why the long block. Binksternet (talk) 02:44, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Some of the old history of this IP is documented at User:Binksternet/Goldsboro. In the past, most admins did /64 blocks but see also this /48 block for 6 months from 3 July, 2018 by User:Berean Hunter. EdJohnston (talk) 04:18, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Previous thread. I've hardblocked the /64 for a year. Only one IP user and no accounts seen on the range.
— Berean Hunter(talk) 04:39, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Previous thread. I've hardblocked the /64 for a year. Only one IP user and no accounts seen on the range.
Indef blocked editor has returned & making personal attacks under new IP
Reported user has been blocked for one month. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 08:53, 31 October 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
See previous ANI thread here. Editor has returned as 2600:1:91ba:8f32:5425:969f:4199:cf35 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) and left the following message on my talk page Warning: I am unblocked now. I got blocked because of YOU. If you do that again I will kick your butt. Do not erase things either, so if you do that, you’re topic banned for 3 months. Got it?
[190] ... CJ [a Kiwi] in Oz 04:35, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) You can use WP:AIV quoting his statement as evidence of block evasion. Matthew hk (talk) 05:00, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Blocked x 1 month. -Ad Orientem (talk) 06:08, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Nary have I seen such a fine example of shooting one's self in the foot.--WaltCip (talk) 12:02, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
TPA removal
TPA revoked by Ad Orientem. —usernamekiran(talk) 06:33, 31 October 2018 (UTC) |
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- SIVASANKAR G A (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User:SIVASANKAR G A was blocked for repeatedly creating autobiography, and socking. Now he has created in his user talk space. Given his educational background, he should be able to understand the messages delivered to him, and how wikipedia works. TPA removal is fair here. Regards, —usernamekiran(talk) 04:30, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) Support Since user talk page contain old warning and should not G11 just due to the current version of the content. Also Draft:SIVASANKAR G A may need to SALT too. Matthew hk (talk) 04:36, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Moreover, he had issues of writing his CV in the talk page, then blanking it for some reason, and then restore it again. Keep on looping in this cycle. Also, his user page User:SIVASANKAR G A was SALTed already. Matthew hk (talk) 05:36, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Done -Ad Orientem (talk) 06:10, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Moreover, he had issues of writing his CV in the talk page, then blanking it for some reason, and then restore it again. Keep on looping in this cycle. Also, his user page User:SIVASANKAR G A was SALTed already. Matthew hk (talk) 05:36, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Potential sock puppet removing deletion tag at Cavis Appythart
Accounts indef'd. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 08:54, 31 October 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I see that two accounts named @Augu3934: and @Auge3934: have been removing deletion tag on Cavis Appythart without a consensus. It looks like a single user is using both of those account and using them interchangeably to avoid a block. INeedSupport(Care free to give me support?) 17:16, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Obvious socks of Wil93948 are obvious. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 17:35, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Which made the article eligible for speedy deletion as G5.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:43, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- It is worth noting that an article on the character is likely not a hoax, unlike their other contributions; I believe it's a real VeggieTales character. It's the movie/soundtrack/whatever named for the character that's a hoax, not the character itself AFAIK. That said, that article needed deletion regardless. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 17:46, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Which made the article eligible for speedy deletion as G5.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:43, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
User:EspinosaLuisJr1791
ARTICLE CREATION BAN | |
EspinosaLuisJr1791 has been given ample advice and opportunity to improve their page submissions but has not. Per community consensus, they are banned from creating new articles except as drafts submitted through WP:AFC. They have been warned that if they continue creating new articles, or submitting drafts with cleary insufficient references, they will be blocked from editing. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:17, 1 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have been trying to communicate with this editor since November 2017, and have sent about 15 messages during this time. Other editors have sent them multiple messages on the same topic - repeatedly creating unreferenced articles. They have edited their user talk page during this time and at other times, but only to blank their page. They have been editing for two years.
Many of their creations have ended up looking like this: 2018–19 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference men's basketball season, which has been moved to draftspace three times, but this editor just keeps moving it back to mainspace without addressing the issues. They have been offered help, links to Help:Referencing for beginners, support at the WP:TEAHOUSE, policies on referencing and communication, but they simply refuse to respond and continue to create unreferenced articles. After a year of this editor ignoring m y messages and seeing them ignore so many others, I have run out of other options and feel action needs to be taken.
This was brought to WP:ANI by Barkeep49 here [191] but the discussion doesn't seem to have got underway really and was closed without any decision being made. Boleyn (talk) 08:44, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Agree this is a problem editor. Has not responded to a single talkpage notice; instead routinely blanks the page: [192]. Has not posted on a single talkpage, period. What do you suggest? Attention-getting block? Force going through AfC? Ban on new-page creation? Etc.? Pinging Vermont, who posted on the last ANI thread. -- Softlavender (talk) 08:53, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I’d support a requirement to go through AfC, and a block if they ignore that or continue to refuse to communicate. Vermont (talk) 10:19, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think that is a decent solution, unless someone has a better one. I support that. Softlavender (talk) 10:23, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I'd support that - hopefully it will be enough to get them to engage. If not, a swift indefinite block would be best. Boleyn (talk) 11:57, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think their problem is new article creation as there's really only an obligation to communicate when someone raises an issue. This editor appears to be productive outside of that. I would suggest a ban on new article creation given their disruptive recreation of articles and because AfC would mean wasting time of other editors trying to decide what to do with poorly created articles on notable topics. I would support an Afc requirement as a second choice though. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:25, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Well, a ban on new article creation is a stronger option, but one that's possibly necessary if the new creations have been irredeemable and time-wasting as he creates them. I support that as well as the most efficient solution. Softlavender (talk) 14:29, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I actually think now a full ban on article creation is necessary - they've continued to create unreferenced, uncategorised articles since this discussion was opened (e.g. 2018–19 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference men's basketball season) and haven't commented here. Boleyn (talk) 19:43, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- (non-admin) From a cursory glance, many of the newly created articles may fail WP:NSEASONS as well. SportingFlyertalk 06:38, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- So what sanction, if any, do you support SportingFlyer? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:24, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- (non-admin) I'd support either an AfC requirement or ban on new page creation - a full ban is probably cleaner - but was mostly just pointing out there may need to be some cleanup, as not all of these articles will be notable. SportingFlyer talk 20:47, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- So what sanction, if any, do you support SportingFlyer? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:24, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- (non-admin) From a cursory glance, many of the newly created articles may fail WP:NSEASONS as well. SportingFlyertalk 06:38, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- I actually think now a full ban on article creation is necessary - they've continued to create unreferenced, uncategorised articles since this discussion was opened (e.g. 2018–19 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference men's basketball season) and haven't commented here. Boleyn (talk) 19:43, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Well, a ban on new article creation is a stronger option, but one that's possibly necessary if the new creations have been irredeemable and time-wasting as he creates them. I support that as well as the most efficient solution. Softlavender (talk) 14:29, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think their problem is new article creation as there's really only an obligation to communicate when someone raises an issue. This editor appears to be productive outside of that. I would suggest a ban on new article creation given their disruptive recreation of articles and because AfC would mean wasting time of other editors trying to decide what to do with poorly created articles on notable topics. I would support an Afc requirement as a second choice though. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:25, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I'd support that - hopefully it will be enough to get them to engage. If not, a swift indefinite block would be best. Boleyn (talk) 11:57, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think that is a decent solution, unless someone has a better one. I support that. Softlavender (talk) 10:23, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I’d support a requirement to go through AfC, and a block if they ignore that or continue to refuse to communicate. Vermont (talk) 10:19, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Note to administrators: There is consensus among five experienced editors that EspinosaLuisJr1791 needs either a requirement to go through AfC or a complete ban on new article creations, with the latter being the most efficient as it would prevent wasting AfC reviewers' time. Softlavender (talk) 21:16, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- They are continuing to edit but not engage - can this please be closed by an admin? Boleyn (talk) 14:57, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Looking into it. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:48, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Userpage violating POLEMIC
User earned an indef Legacypac (talk) 08:22, 1 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Norbson12's (talk) userpage seems to be a clear violation of WP:UP#POLEMIC; indeed, they rail against Wikipedia admins and are compiling a list of enemies. I noticed when I myself made the list for tagging one of the editor's articles for speedy deletion (G4, and later for violating copyright policy). I notified Norbson12 at User talk:Norbson12#Enemies list on your userpage, citing policy and asking they remove the list of enemies, but their response [193] to me makes it clear they are not understanding the message. Requesting an admin take a look.--SamHolt6 (talk) 15:59, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I have given him a second, slightly stronger wording. If that fixes the problem, we'll be good. If it does not, it will be fixed for him. --Jayron32 16:10, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I have removed it for them. Having a "list of enemies" is not okay. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 16:18, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Addendum: [194], [195]. Raise your hand if you didn't see that coming... No, put your hand down... --Jayron32 17:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- That escalated quickly. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I've undone my close, Something tells me this is gonna need to stay open beyond 31 hours (which is how long they've been blocked for). –Davey2010Talk 19:43, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Personally I think for that edit 31 hours is a bit generous. I'd have been tempted to go straight to an indef for that until they give a good unblock reason. Canterbury Tailtalk 22:32, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Because of the vile and libelous nature of one of the edit summaries, I have extended the block to indefinite. If anyone disagrees, please make a case as to why this person is an asset to the encyclopedia. Cullen328Let's discuss it 01:28, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I don't think anyone is going to take you up on that challenge. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:43, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Because of the vile and libelous nature of one of the edit summaries, I have extended the block to indefinite. If anyone disagrees, please make a case as to why this person is an asset to the encyclopedia. Cullen328Let's discuss it 01:28, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Personally I think for that edit 31 hours is a bit generous. I'd have been tempted to go straight to an indef for that until they give a good unblock reason. Canterbury Tailtalk 22:32, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Closing admin requested
Wrong venue. John from Idegon (talk) 04:23, 1 November 2018 (UTC)(non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Would an interested admin please take a look at THIS RFC and provide closure? -- has been inactive for close to a month. Thanks. Mercy11 (talk) 01:51, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Requests for close go to WP:AN Mercy11. There's a specific section there for them. John from Idegon (talk) 03:06, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. Matthew hk (talk) 04:15, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Rangeblock request
(non-admin closure)Range blocked 3 months Tornado chaser (talk) 20:45, 1 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi. Another rangeblock request from me. This time the return of the 39.57 IP vandal. Previously blocked for one week in September, after a previous 1 month block had ended. Now they're back doing the same vandalism to cricket articles. Some from today that I've found:
- 39.57.51.106 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 39.57.44.122 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- 39.57.77.227 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
I'd be grateful if this range could be blocked again, ideally for a long time. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 10:24, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Anonblocked three months. Although it is a /17 range, he accounts for the majority of anon edits and shares the range with UPE socks.
— Berean Hunter(talk) 12:56, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you! Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 15:41, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Humayun Akhtar Khan
We've had ongoing problems for two weeks now with a SPA Jawswade (talk · contribs) who continually adds original research and promotional material to Humayun Akhtar Khan. When I tried to remove the OR, the user engaged in edit warring which led me to left numerous warnings on their talk page User_talk:Jawswade#October_2018. I tried to communicate with this editor via article's talk page Talk:Humayun Akhtar Khan but xe does not care to respond. --Saqib (talk) 09:16, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Might need a topic ban if he can't abide by Wikipedia policies. Pinging Diannaa and DMacks, who have also left him talkpage messages. Softlavender (talk) 09:36, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yup, refuses to abide by WP:V (mostly uncited or not-supported-by-cite) despite saying that the content is cited and supported. I don't know about the reliability of the claimed sources (this topic is not my expertise). And refuses to discuss it? That's not how we build a collaborative encyclopedia. DMacks (talk) 20:17, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- And now a newbie Maniiminhas (talk·contribs) has restored the OR. --Saqib (talk) 10:17, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Ok, the same user reverted again. I blocked them for 31h as a sock of Jawswade and for edit-warring. This is awkward, because edit-warring by itself would not be sufficient for blocking the user, and I can not prove they are a sock, otherwise the block would have been indef. The user also has a lot of noticed for deleted content, and the deleted edits show content was really inappropriate, which suggests WP:NOTHERE, but I got very recently some strong comments on AN which suggest that my understanding of NOTHERE is different from that of some other users, and I am hesitant to apply it in this case. If another sock emerges, the page must be protected. For the time being, I am afraid, by my revert of the edit of the presumed sock I made myself involved in the situation, and another sdministrator will have to make decisions and close this thread.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:20, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Ymblanter - Happy to take over and steer the ship from here ;-). The SPI report returned a result of possible when a CheckUser looked at the technical information for each user. Since they're indeed possible, I'll add that within one day after Jawswade was blocked for edit warring on Humayun Akhtar Khan, a user (Maniiminhas)... an account that has existed for over five years and with only three total edits to the project, which has been mostly completely silent on this project... suddenly begins to edit this very article and with the exact same edits as Jawswade by reverting the article and continuing the edit war. Given the possibility cited in the SPI, as well as the timeline of events that fit, the exact same edits made, and the extremely low probability that this user coincidentally decided to contribute to this article and coincidentally by making the same edits and continuing the edit war, I'm confident that Maniiminhas is very likely a sock puppet account of Jawswade and I have blocked it indefinitely based on my observations and findings stated here. While this would also indict Jawswade and justify a block against this account as well, I've decided to hold off on doing so and hold the user to a final warning basis instead.
- Ok, the same user reverted again. I blocked them for 31h as a sock of Jawswade and for edit-warring. This is awkward, because edit-warring by itself would not be sufficient for blocking the user, and I can not prove they are a sock, otherwise the block would have been indef. The user also has a lot of noticed for deleted content, and the deleted edits show content was really inappropriate, which suggests WP:NOTHERE, but I got very recently some strong comments on AN which suggest that my understanding of NOTHERE is different from that of some other users, and I am hesitant to apply it in this case. If another sock emerges, the page must be protected. For the time being, I am afraid, by my revert of the edit of the presumed sock I made myself involved in the situation, and another sdministrator will have to make decisions and close this thread.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:20, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- And now a newbie Maniiminhas (talk·contribs) has restored the OR. --Saqib (talk) 10:17, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yup, refuses to abide by WP:V (mostly uncited or not-supported-by-cite) despite saying that the content is cited and supported. I don't know about the reliability of the claimed sources (this topic is not my expertise). And refuses to discuss it? That's not how we build a collaborative encyclopedia. DMacks (talk) 20:17, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- I've left Jawswade a final warning and notice on their user talk page, which gave clear examples of issues observed and discussed with the user in the past, and gave clear expectations regarding the user's editing and the behaviors and policy compliance expected as well as the consequences that will follow should further issues continue. The user was made aware that, should any further violations of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines occur on this article and related discussions and talk pages, he/she will be blocked from editing Wikipedia without further warning or notice. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 14:58, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
I'm being harassed across multiple Wikis again
This user with a single contribution on English Wikipedia left me a comment on my talk page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Clothpillar
After somebody reverted it, they left the same comment on my Spanish Wikipedia talk page:
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario_discusi%C3%B3n:ChiveFungi
They (I'm imagining it's the same person as it's the same tactic within a short period of time) have previously harassed me on French French and Meta.
What should I be doing here? Previously I've report it here on ANI, then somebody tells me to take it to the appropriate Wikipedia's ANI (of course I don't know where the French, Meta, or Spanish equivalents of ANI are so somebody has to tell me), and then I report it there in English and I do it incorrectly because I can't read the instructions. That doesn't seem like a sustainable approach. Does Wikimedia not have a centralized way to deal with cross-wiki harassment?
Thanks. --ChiveFungi (talk) 13:12, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) I'm not sure if there is a centralized way of dealing with cross-wiki harassment, but those are serious violations of WP:NPA (and being their only edits, could get them indeffed for WP:NOTHERE alone). I'd say report them in each of the wiki's they're harassing you on and see how that goes.—Mythdon (talk • contribs) 13:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I removed the trash at the spanish wiki.💵Money💵emoji💵💸 13:59, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Do you actually participate on other wikis? If not, you can turn cross-wiki notifications off. It's in the preferences tab under notifications. Of course if you do need notifications on other wikis, this won't help. In that case, you could try meta:Steward_requests/Global, where at least you don't have to worry about the language barrier. I'm not 100% sure that's the right place, but I'm like 85% sure... --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:14, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Floquenbeam and ChiveFungi, yes, that would be the correct place. I've requested a global lock on the account for cross-wiki abuse. Home Lander (talk) 15:55, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, I'm looking at this. Do you know the sockmaster's username? (You may email me, if you wish) — regards, Revi 15:41, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Asked local CU but they didn't have any idea as well. Locking anyway, I don't have policy-wide approval to delete on eswiki (they are way too big, and Stewards do not intervene on big wikis where there are enough admins who can do it locally [unless emergency]) so you will need to contact Spanish Wikipedia admins to delete that page. — regards, Revi 15:59, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- @-revi: I have to suspect Lad Blackpool as they've directed personal attacks at me for their entire short career as a Wikipedia editor, and have even tweeted about me [196]. I also contributed to TaylanUB being banned recently, so that's also a possibility.
- Thanks everybody for the help and suggestions. I know the harassment is pretty minor at the moment, but I'm not going to shut up and take it :) --ChiveFungi (talk) 16:29, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Crockmaris == sulutil:Parrymanes == sulutil:Cadizthais == sulutil:Scentgotta et al. Not sure if this one is the same one. — regards, Revi 16:47, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
User forcing their edits through
jmyrtle13 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is forcing edits through on the Hot Wheels World Race article, despite being told that their additions are excessive; Their additions are a plot section at 3,500 words, when MOS:PLOT mentions that for feature films, 400-700 is enough, and this is a direct-to-video title. Eik Corell (talk) 15:18, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- To start, I issued a final warning... But the history of this and related articles suggest that's some socking and block evasion going on. -- ferret (talk) 15:45, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- User officially warned on usertalk against WP:DE and editing logged out. If there is suspected socking via named accounts, please file a report at WP:SPI. Softlavender (talk) 07:31, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
Hot Wheels: World Race
Following on from the discussion started yesterday by Eik Corell, Brigskick (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) persists in adding a ridiculously long-winded plot summary to Hot Wheels: World Race (edit talk history links watch logs) – over three and a half thousand words long, a major violation of MOS:PLOT, which recommends a plot summary of 400-700 words. I suspect the user may be a sock puppet of jmyrtle13 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who yesterday made similar edits. Citizen Canine (talk) 16:11, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Citizen Canine, I moved this thread under the similar one, which I have unclosed for now. The appropriate place to file a sockpuppet investigation is WP:SPI, although it's so obvious it should probably be blocked as a DUCK. Ferret, Drmies, Bueller? Softlavender (talk) 16:35, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Well, he's breached 3RR now. Can someone block and save us the trouble of an ANEW report? Softlavender (talk) 17:20, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Opening this again because the latest iteration of the sockpuppeteer is making the same massive edit. Pinging @NinjaRobotPirate, Eik Corell, Citizen Canine, Ferret, and Drmies:. This has been going on since August. I have also requested semi-protection of the page at WP:RFPP. -- Softlavender (talk) 23:13, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Guys, wait. Jmyrtle13 is
Unrelated to Brigskick and Mrends. Those are probably Architect 134 (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki). NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:42, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for checking that, or getting it checked. Clearly they were a returning user who knew the buzzwords. Jmyrtle13 = probably NOTHERE, so s/he can stay indeffed, right? Softlavender (talk) 23:52, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- I don't know. Isn't that a little bit harsh, considering the person just got streamrolled at ANI courtesy of a troll? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- @NinjaRobotPirate: I don't check ANI frequently so missed this. If you've checked on it and they aren't a sock, I'm fine with reducing the block. However I don't have much hope. -- ferret (talk) 17:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- I unblocked Jmyrtle13. If the editor causes more trouble, it's not like we have to go through a whole long process to decide what to do about it. It seems wrong to keep Jmyrtle13 blocked when the most of the disruption was coming from an unrelated troll, though. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:03, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- @NinjaRobotPirate: I don't check ANI frequently so missed this. If you've checked on it and they aren't a sock, I'm fine with reducing the block. However I don't have much hope. -- ferret (talk) 17:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- I don't know. Isn't that a little bit harsh, considering the person just got streamrolled at ANI courtesy of a troll? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for checking that, or getting it checked. Clearly they were a returning user who knew the buzzwords. Jmyrtle13 = probably NOTHERE, so s/he can stay indeffed, right? Softlavender (talk) 23:52, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
Editor repeatedly adding unsourced/poorly sourced content
This complaint is now moot since Aydinyol was blocked 31 hours per the edit warring report. Undo this closure if you believe there is more to do here. EdJohnston (talk) 02:01, 3 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi, Aydinyol is repeatedly adding unsourced content at Azerbaijani language while having been reverted by two different users (Wario-Man and me). He has been warned several times on his talk. He uses unreliable forum like website to push his agenda. Some diffs of the user's changes :
Some diffs of other users' removal of these unsourced changes :
I have not reported this case to the e/w noticeboard since the wording of the edits differs slightly from one edit to another. I would welcome the eye of an admin to deal with this case. Best regards.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- We have currently a dispute over the page. He has removed my changes many times by ignoring my sources and keep repeating unsource. My source is in Azerbaijani Language (we are editing the Azerbaijani language page). Another Persian source showing how satellite TV channels of Azerbaijan Republic has got popularity among people in south Azerbaijan (iranian part) protesting the central government of Iran. I tried to get a consensus with him by keeping his source, but he keeps trying to continue his destructive behaviour by abusing Wikipedia's complain mechanisms. I have asked a third party to have a look into the issue. I ask the administrators to ask him not to dictate his opinions on other users by threatening them by blocking in talk pages by aggressive language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aydinyol (talk • contribs) 16:39, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I explained you on your talk how your sources are unreliable and you've been warned by 3 different users on your talk page for edit warring. first you added a blog as a source, after that a forum like site in Persian. The source used in a great many language related articles is ethnologue, which supports significant differences between north and south Azerbaijani languages, i explained all this on your talk : [207]. you sound like a WP:CIR user who keeps reverting the article with no reliable sources. Regards.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 16:49, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- " I tried to get a consensus with him" : This comment of yours show that you're not here to find a consensus.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 16:53, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment : Administrators, Aydinyol is now also reported by another editor at the edit warring noticeboard. Best regards.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:12, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Challenging the Blexit article merger
Content disputes aren't something for WP:ANI. As suggested, the place for this is on Talk:Candace Owens. Black Kite (talk) 17:06, 2 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A few days ago, editor Hyperbolick created an article on Blexit. When I saw the article, I added additional material and reliable sources into the article to ensure that the article is well sourced. Unfortunately now, the article has been merged into the Candace Owens article, without any prior meaningful discussion to achieve consensus. On the article's talk page, editor Hyperbolick suggested merging the article, and only 15 hours later, without waiting for any editor (e.g. those editors who contributed to the Blexit article) to appear to make their opinions known, the article was merged into the Candace Owens article. I protest against this merger as it violates WP:MERGE: there was no merger proposal, there was no merger discussion, and the time between the suggestion and the actual merger was just 15 (fifteen) hours. I hereby ask an admin to please kindly restore the Blexit article, so that we can have a meaningful discussion on whether or not the article should be merged. This way we can achieve community consensus in the usual proper way. Thank you. 77.9.45.189 (talk) 16:03, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- 77.9.45.189 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), WP:MERGE isn't policy or a guideline. I would suggest that you start the conversation on Candace Owens's talk page since the merge has already happened. I would expect the consensus to be to merge it there anyway and it easier to talk it out before we end up with it being unmerged and remerged multiple times. zchrykng (talk) 16:10, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Noone claimed that wp:merger was policy or guideline. Tell me please, which policy or guideline is responsible for a merger? My main argument is that the merger took place without achieving any community consensus. Achieving consensus is Wikipedia policy, and I mentioned community consensus three times in my request. This issue has been brought here at WP:ANI at the suggestion of an administrator. 77.9.45.189 (talk) 16:24, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's not complicated: Start the discussion now, at Talk:Candace Owens and request that the merger be undone. If there is consensus to return to the state of two separate articles, we can go back to that. There isn't any impending need to return everything the way it was to have that discussion. The discussion can still happen, and if consensus is to maintain two articles, then we can go ahead and do that. What we want to avoid doing is going back-and-forth unnecessarily in lieu of a discussion. Whatever state we are in now is irrelevant. It's whatever state consensus eventually determines to be the correct one. Have the discussion, and establish that consensus, and then we'll make a decision as a community. --Jayron32 16:28, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- I mentioned it not being policy since you said the merge violates it. If it isn't policy or a guideline, I think using terms like "violates" just ramps up tension more than needed. As for the actual discussion, yes maybe they should have waited longer, I just don't think undoing it, discussing it, and then potentially moving it back is the best approach. Why not discuss it on the talk page of the article it is in now? zchrykng (talk) 16:35, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Adhering to Wikipedia's consensus policy should not be complicated. The merger, that was done without any prior discussion, should now remain the way it is? What Wikipedia policy/guideline allows you to do this? Why not simply delete the entire consensus policy altogether since apparently it is ok to merge an article without any prior discussion. I disagree with your suggestion, because your suggestion encourages editors to violate Wikipedia's consensus policy. Because the article is not available now, the article itself cannot be worked on, new reliable sources that have been written by independent sources on the Blexit subject matter cannot be included into the article because the article is not there. Did you admonish the merging editor for merging the article without any prior discussion? This is the issue here. Please restore the article, and then people can take a look at the article to decide if the article should be merged or not. This is in line with Wikipedia's Consensus Policy. I'm surprised that you as an admin will uphold editing behavior which is out of line and in clear violation of one of Wikipedia's Policies. For reminders: the article was merged 15 (fifteen) hours after the article creator suggested the merger on the talk page, with no merger proposal, with no merger discussion, without having achieved any community consensus. Please restore the article. Thank you. 77.9.45.189 (talk) 16:49, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- I mentioned it not being policy since you said the merge violates it. If it isn't policy or a guideline, I think using terms like "violates" just ramps up tension more than needed. As for the actual discussion, yes maybe they should have waited longer, I just don't think undoing it, discussing it, and then potentially moving it back is the best approach. Why not discuss it on the talk page of the article it is in now? zchrykng (talk) 16:35, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's not complicated: Start the discussion now, at Talk:Candace Owens and request that the merger be undone. If there is consensus to return to the state of two separate articles, we can go back to that. There isn't any impending need to return everything the way it was to have that discussion. The discussion can still happen, and if consensus is to maintain two articles, then we can go ahead and do that. What we want to avoid doing is going back-and-forth unnecessarily in lieu of a discussion. Whatever state we are in now is irrelevant. It's whatever state consensus eventually determines to be the correct one. Have the discussion, and establish that consensus, and then we'll make a decision as a community. --Jayron32 16:28, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Noone claimed that wp:merger was policy or guideline. Tell me please, which policy or guideline is responsible for a merger? My main argument is that the merger took place without achieving any community consensus. Achieving consensus is Wikipedia policy, and I mentioned community consensus three times in my request. This issue has been brought here at WP:ANI at the suggestion of an administrator. 77.9.45.189 (talk) 16:24, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Would a short range block work here?
Rangeblocked for 6 months (non-admin closure) Kpgjhpjm 09:49, 3 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One byte won't hurt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was blocked 14:49, 18 June 2018
2A01:119F:21D:7900:43A:E64E:53E3:6656 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) objected to block at 10:14, 19 June 2018
Recently, a bunch of IPs all starting with 2A01:119F:21D:7900 have started vandalizing and edit warring on the same narrow range of subjects.
Not sure whether they are the same as the blocked user; there is that three month gap in time.
So far I have identified:
- 2A01:119F:21D:7900:1DB:BBFB:83F0:3423 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 2A01:119F:21D:7900:2157:F0A1:824F:A1A3 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 2A01:119F:21D:7900:43A:E64E:53E3:6656 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 2A01:119F:21D:7900:501:2CBC:671E:993E (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 2A01:119F:21D:7900:5C45:5175:70D7:C4A7 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 2A01:119F:21D:7900:6C9F:1DFC:B464:CF37 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 2A01:119F:21D:7900:89A7:4322:8B46:1724 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 2A01:119F:21D:7900:BCC0:CFF8:A57F:15FE (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Would this be a candidate for a short range block? Or would the collateral damage be too high? Many vandals give up and go way forever when they get the block notice, not realizing that the block will expire. --Guy Macon (talk) 16:40, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note the edit filter log for 2A01:119F:21D:7900:501:2CBC:671E:993E --Guy Macon (talk) 16:43, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- A /64 looks viable to me. [208] ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 16:50, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Clearly used by just the one vandal with an interest in character encoding. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Range blocked for 6 months. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Clearly used by just the one vandal with an interest in character encoding. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
SheriffIsInTown
SIIT one-way IBAN from Debresser, and topic ban from Judaism | ||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
SheriffIsInTown (talk · contribs) started with removing a lot of information on the 613 commandments article. His removals were major and of paragraph that were previously not tagged as in need of sourcing. When several editors reverted him, or tried to reason with him on his talkpage, like me, he finally consented to tagging them instead. His next step was to remove major unsourced portions of text from
I happened to notice his comment on one of the talkpages. In this comment he shows that he has no clue regarding our WP:RSPRIMARY/WP:PRIMARY policy. Debresser (talk) 19:01, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
I accept that I have made a blunder here. I did not review WP:HOUNDING recently. My understanding was that it only involved when an editor made direct reverts of another editor's edits on multiple articles. After having a conflict with Debresser, I should have been careful editing further articles in that topic area which I will try to avoid going forward. I also thought that I was serving the encyclopedia by removing original research from articles and it did not matter what topic area they belonged to unless I was not restricted from that area. I promise to be more careful in the future. This can be considered a one-off blunder from me which I do not intend to repeat! Sheriff ☎ 911 20:40, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
BlockSheriffIsInTown has admitted they picked all of these articles just to take revenge on me for pointing out that their behavior was less than ideal. That is being disruptive, and a bad community editor. I think a limited block might be in order. Debresser (talk) 21:06, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Proposal for a sitewide 1RR restriction
The user admittedly WP:WIKIHOUNDED Debresser and carried on Edit warring on multiple articles some of them just shy of the 3RR. The user is already on an India-Pakistan conflicts Topic Ban[212] and to avoid future disruption spilling over to other areas and to encourage this user to engage in collaborative and cordial discussion, I think putting a mandatory 1RR restriction across the site will be helpful here. The user should jump to the talk page after first revert and not after exhausting 3 reverts.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Use of semi-automated toolsThe issue is probably not completely ANI-worthy by itself, but it's part of the pattern of making edits that are sometimes problematic and then ignoring any feedback. SheriffIsInTown is a regular user of WP:REFILL, a tool that expands bare url references into formatted citations. His use of this tool was at the centre of some drama earlier this year, with some more recent posts on their talk page here and here. The major point was that when formatting the reference, any user of reFill should preview their edit and check that the url that their tool is getting the metadata from continues to contain the same page as the one that was used in the article, so that for example they don't end up adding a citation to what is now a website's "Page not found" message. Now, I've had a loot at a dozen or so of SheriffIsInTown's recent uses of reFill, and I'm seeing the same issues. Here the url currently redirects to the website's main page, so the added citation metadata is incorrect. In the second citation there the metadata doesn't correspond to the actual webpage. And here, there are two instances of expanded citations to what is now a "Content not found" error page, one instance (the second to last ref) where the url is now a redirect so the expanded citation contains, incorrectly, the metadata for the website's main page; and there's also one ref (the third from the top) where the Now, we can't expect everyone to know how the citation templates work, although if an editor has made (tens of) thousands of edits to citations, they really should be a bit better prepared. The main point, however, is that these issues have been raised on Sheriff's talk page several times, by various editors, but he has apparently continued to make the same errors over and over again. – Uanfala (talk) 14:20, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Indef block proposal
Replies from SheriffIsInTown on this thread fail to assure if they understand the problem.[224] SheriffIsInTown merely suggests that he would try to be more careful, however he won't really change approach as much as it is necessary to. He is instead trying to find faults in the complainant than addressing his own behavior.[225][226] After discussing this for long enough, I am seeing that people have supported 1RR or topic ban or block. While people are unsure if 1RR or topic ban will work, there maybe no serious objections to an indefinite block/site ban since SheriffIsInTown is already under a topic ban from India-Pakistan conflicts and have already subjected to an AN thread.[227] He has violated his topic ban two times,[228] and had been once blocked for a topic ban violation.[229] He also considers anything a "harassment",[230] which shows his approach is not suitable for this environment. Except these issues, there are problems with his semi-automated editing as explained in the section right above. Enough editors have also raised concerns with SheriffIsInTown's WP:CIR. This means that a topic ban or 1RR, or in fact both restrictions would not be able to solve the problems with SheriffIsInTown, but merely push him to disrupt any other subjects. Even if any of these sanctions have been imposed, it seems that we will come back here with more proposals for further sanctions, and therefore I propose indefinite block (aka community ban) as the better option. Rzvas (talk) 16:52, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Two issues
After carefully reading this thread and examining the evidence, it seems to me that there are two issues here. The first is SIIT's WP:HOUNDING of Debresser. The second is the quality of SIIT's edit on articles related to Judaism. Obviously, an indef block would solve both those problems, but I think it's somewhat like killing a mosquito with a hand grenade. Instead, I would suggest:
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Mentorship?I think we need to start thinking of a solution to the root causes of the problems. SheriffIsInTown may get banned from Judaism-related articles but similar situations are likely to occur unless they develop a better understanding of how sourcing works, and they learn to engage with the feedback they receive. I think both prongs of the problem could begin to be addressed by adopting a mentorship arrangement, in which they will receive guidance from an experienced editor in any content-related edits they want to make. Of course, this will depend both on the availability of a suitable mentor and SheriffIsInTown's own willingess to accept one. Could this be the way forward from here? At any rate, I don't believe the alternative of letting them back into the wiki unsupervised is desirable: at the very least, the shaky grasp of sourcing and the BLP issues pointed out above by Lugnuts and Boud are not safe in an editor who creates articles about politicians. – Uanfala (talk) 12:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Marine678
Indeffed by Maile66. SemiHypercube ✎ 16:24, 3 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I'm not sure if this is right place to report this, but in browsing a few articles today I came across the edits of User:Marine678 who I noticed has been persistently vandalizing or disruptively editing articles of various 2018 U.S. elections and political candidates. They have changed candidates' infobox information to show them winning their races and update their office titles, etc. (before the election has taken place). For example, making Ron DeSantis the new governor of Florida (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ron_DeSantis&diff=prev&oldid=861099015), Jon Husted the new lieutenant governor of Ohio (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jon_A._Husted&diff=prev&oldid=866015132), and Marsha Blackburn the new Tennessee senator (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marsha_Blackburn&diff=prev&oldid=853185105). I only looked at a few edits prior to 2018 but I came across ones in 2016 as silly as changing a Trump cabinet member's title to Secretary of Animals. I don't know what can be done about this, but I wanted to make someone aware of it since this person's only apparent purpose in editing Wikipedia is to cause problems. 2605:A000:FFC0:D8:3059:8016:5847:3E43 (talk) 13:49, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Note this vandalism of the Barack Obama article: [253]. 86.147.197.124 (talk) 14:13, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
User has issues with image licensing info
Mino348 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has uploaded a lot of images since August, none of which have proper licensing information. In some cases other users fixed their uploads, in some cases the images have been deleted. Their talk page is almost exclusively a long list of bot warnings about this, and yet they show no sign of changing their behavior. They've also never made a single contribution to a talk namespace, so trying to communicate with them might be difficult. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 00:11, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Hundreds of garbage articles created by blocked user
John Carter (who is currently blocked indef) has created 655 pages. So far, 103 have been deleted and another group are at AfD. They are nonsense. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jabal ad Dayt for an example. I clicked on some of the notices on his talkpage about other creations that were deleted and they are nonsense as well. It would probably be a good idea for someone to review all of these articles, because this is a pretty poor track record. I do not want to go through 500 pages on my own. Natureium (talk) 19:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- FYI Alexandermcnabb is meticulously combing through these. There are several threads on A's talk page regarding these including this one User talk:Alexandermcnabb#A cup of coffee for you!. MarnetteDTalk 19:51, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- Wow, what a saint. Natureium (talk) 19:55, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- I accept the beatitude with grateful thanks. Mind, I could use some help. There IS some good in there, the odd nugget, but there's an awful lot of total rubbish and over the past ten years it's spawned hundreds, if not thousands, of WP-derived web pages in/about the UAE. Each of those damn stubs has, in ten years, created a virtual universe of non-existent places offering tours, trips, car hire, shoes - maps citing WP, WP citing maps. He made his whole own UAE on WP. I've been AfDing the articles individually (which has caused some irritation, I know, but a) I didn't know how to bulk AfD and b) I was scared of WP:Traincrash. There were a few of the 'settlement' stubs which had their staunch defenders despite the places totally lacking in notability, for instance this Dahir, Fujairah and this one, which is a residential block in the city of Ras Al Khaimah Al Mataf). I'm now trying to bulk AfD them where relevant but have to admit the task is Augean. I didn't know he'd created 655 pages and do fervently hope they aren't all UAE stubs because it's caused an immense amount of confusion and damage. Hey ho! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 03:59, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
- Wow, what a saint. Natureium (talk) 19:55, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- These really need a Neelix-esque nuke approach. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 07:23, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think I reached the end. He's created thousands and thousands of categories and redirects, but appears to have only (relatively) briefly focused on the UAE's geography. Someone may like to take a look at the rest of the creations... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:43, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
- Dang... that's a lot of articles. Thank you, Alexandermcnabb, for going through them. Looking at the user's contributions and filtering to show only mainspace edits that are page creations, there's... wow... a ton of redirects that go many years back. If I can be of any assistance, or if any tools like Special:Nuke might make anything go faster, let me know and I'll be happy to help. We just want to make sure that we don't go crazy and delete anything that is legitimate and shouldn't be. ;-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 11:19, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think I reached the end. He's created thousands and thousands of categories and redirects, but appears to have only (relatively) briefly focused on the UAE's geography. Someone may like to take a look at the rest of the creations... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:43, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, Oshwah but I'm done with my bit - I got involved when his edits touched geography in the UAE and I stumbled on the considerable mess that got left behind - and that's what I've been cleaning up, article by article and AfD by (sometimes contested!) AfD. But I'm no good on the Wiki procedural stuff (what's a valid redirect, what's not? Are all those thousands of categories necessary/needed?). I'm a little concerned that if all that other stuff is of the same quality/utility of the stuff I found, and where I have occasionally dipped in while paging through his edits to find if he'd done any more UAE stuff I hadn't so far found (I didn't see that he had) it was of dubious utility as far as I could see. But I am no WP procedural wonk, I have to leave that to you guys! Even making a bulk AfD work had my head bursting... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:55, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- I agree with Lugnuts, given the scale of the issue here, why don't we simply nuke first and ask questions later ie delete them all, and if any turn out to be notable (unlikely) in the future they can be restored? GiantSnowman 15:02, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- @GiantSnowman: it seems like Gazetteer of the United Arab Emirates (1987; see Google Books profile) was cited, but without page numbers. I think Wikipedia:RX might be able to supply a copy? WhisperToMe (talk) 23:34, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- I have took a couple more articles of the UAE stubs that are not notable to AfD. Pkbwcgs (talk) 16:55, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Alexandermcnabb: Did you find any of the articles to be correct or were they all garbage? Natureium (talk) 02:19, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Natureium: There were a couple of names were right (but they were still nine-word stubs with wacky pins), a couple of the settlements scraped through AfD. 98% cruft, I'd say. Are there any left to nuke? Thought I'd got 'em all. It's the non-UAE stuff I thought might need a bit of scrutiny!!! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:57, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- I agree with Lugnuts, given the scale of the issue here, why don't we simply nuke first and ask questions later ie delete them all, and if any turn out to be notable (unlikely) in the future they can be restored? GiantSnowman 15:02, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, Oshwah but I'm done with my bit - I got involved when his edits touched geography in the UAE and I stumbled on the considerable mess that got left behind - and that's what I've been cleaning up, article by article and AfD by (sometimes contested!) AfD. But I'm no good on the Wiki procedural stuff (what's a valid redirect, what's not? Are all those thousands of categories necessary/needed?). I'm a little concerned that if all that other stuff is of the same quality/utility of the stuff I found, and where I have occasionally dipped in while paging through his edits to find if he'd done any more UAE stuff I hadn't so far found (I didn't see that he had) it was of dubious utility as far as I could see. But I am no WP procedural wonk, I have to leave that to you guys! Even making a bulk AfD work had my head bursting... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:55, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. I agree all of the UAE stubs need to be mass nuked. It's exhausting AfD and exhausting the time and patience and research of many users to have to deal with them. I agree this is a Neelix-level cleanup, but unfortunately unlike the Neelix creations, since these are articles (as opposed to redirects), the hundreds of inaccurate decade-old stubs have created a massive amount of misinformation spread all over the internet. This is, literally, a Wikipedia's worst nightmare scenario. Softlavender (talk) 15:04, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- I have taken the liberty of slightly changing the title of this thread to emphasize the scale of the problem. Softlavender (talk) 01:53, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- Support a mass delete, to make it crystal clear/easy to see for reviewing admin. GiantSnowman 15:10, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- Comment even though he cited the Gazetteer of the United Arab Emirates (1987), he never cited page numbers, ISBNs, etc. There really is a Gazetteer of the United Arab Emirates published by the Defense Mapping Agency so hopefully someone gets a copy of it and actually uses it... WhisperToMe (talk) 08:48, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
- As per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request#Gazetteer_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates I am checking to see if I can get the table of contents and/or the index from this book. That way I can share it with other Wikipedians and it can be determined which pages are needed. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:13, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
- support nuking all the articles. I will go through all the creations after 18 hours from now. If something that exists and is notable, someone would create it again eventually; and these creations can be reviewed as they come in. There is no point in wasting time and energy veryfying everything that this editor has created. —usernamekiran(talk) 01:17, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
- I do think people are scared away of re-creating deleted pages, even if the topics do turn out to be notable. However I am not opposed to a mass-delete as John Carter did a poor job of citing things. By getting the index it can make verification much easier. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:11, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
- Funnily enough, I took another one of these stubs to AFD as John Carter pin-pointed the location directly in the sea. This is absolutely awful and the creator said that it is "a location in Fujairah". I support a careful mass-deletion of these stubs. Pkbwcgs (talk) 09:51, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
- All valid arguments. But I still feel this is the best option. Or maybe we can draftify everything? Upon verification, it can be added back to mainspace. Is there any way to avoid deletion of drafts after the inactivity period? —usernamekiran(talk) 01:18, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
- We've already gone through and sent a number of these to AfD. I think we're nearly done. No reason to nuke everything now. A pinpoint into the sea for a coastal area is common where the point is only accurate to degrees and minutes, between 1.1 and 11km... see: Decimal_degrees SportingFlyer talk 02:05, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- All valid arguments. But I still feel this is the best option. Or maybe we can draftify everything? Upon verification, it can be added back to mainspace. Is there any way to avoid deletion of drafts after the inactivity period? —usernamekiran(talk) 01:18, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
- Funnily enough, I took another one of these stubs to AFD as John Carter pin-pointed the location directly in the sea. This is absolutely awful and the creator said that it is "a location in Fujairah". I support a careful mass-deletion of these stubs. Pkbwcgs (talk) 09:51, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
- I do think people are scared away of re-creating deleted pages, even if the topics do turn out to be notable. However I am not opposed to a mass-delete as John Carter did a poor job of citing things. By getting the index it can make verification much easier. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:11, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. I think we need to be careful not to delete anything that has survived an AfD. A few of these places really do exist. The errors in the pin positions are largely due to rounding (not using enough decimal places) and are easily corrected. It would appear that an entry in the Gazeteer cannot be taken as proof of existence. That same data is also in online databases like geographic.org which contains all the many entries we now know definitely don't exist thanks to Alexander's work on the ground. SpinningSpark 23:05, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Spinningspark: do you think draftifying everything can be an option? (Kindly see my reply above.) —usernamekiran(talk) 01:18, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
- WhisperToMe Asked me to share how I think this all happened. In 1959, the Trucial Oman Scouts did a survey of the area by basically wandering around and asking people where they were (imagine a couple of Brits in short trousers bombing around in a Land Rover Defender). So if they stopped (and they often did) at a well with a couple of tents by it, they'd ask 'Where's this?' and the locals would shrug and say 'Well' or 'Wadi Helou' (literally, BTW, 'sweet wadi') or whatever. As far as I can tell, the Brits also used data from John Lorimer's 1915 Gazetteer of the Persian Gulf which is compendious, but contains some very quaint spellings/transliterations from Arabic. So we have a couple of VERY out of date sources (given that in 1959 the interior of the Trucial States was still bandit country and even the oil companies were having a hard time getting access to the interior and then the breakneck development of here since then, it's safe to say 99.9% of things have changed. Some haven't, which is always nice to find!). ANYWAY, that survey was picked up and used as the source of a Gazetteer in 1974 by Abu Dhabi and that source was in turn picked up by the American Defence Mapping Agency in 1987. Hope they don't use that data for targeting otherwise a bunch of wells and seasonal Bedouin encampments are really going to know what's hit 'em. So the info you're looking at is at least 59 years out of date and features mad transliteration. We still have issues with transliterating from Arabic today and place names in the UAE can often be spelled 2-3 ways on different signs. I remember going to the village of HabHab and seeing a sign on the police station 'HebHeb Police Station'. End result? Mr Carter would appear to have happily banged all those place names into WP along with 'is a city in Sharjah' or 'is a location in Ajman' or 'is a mountain' or 'is a tribal area in Dubai'. I'd say the mess is pretty much cleared up now, but the above is how I reckon we got here. What scares me is the information STOOD FOR TEN YEARS mostly unchallenged. I mean, good grief. Best to all Alexandermcnabb (talk) 03:23, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
- And I could understand someone saying "well the Defense Mapping Agency has to know what they're doing!" Yet it turns out they had bad data. This is why I'm glad I inquired on the source: that way people can learn from this and take more due diligence on their sourcing. While I could understand Carter believing in the verifiability of the agency's work, I still think there should have been an effort to get page numbers, and also to get some background info on the source before using it. That's also why I have Wikipedia articles written on books being used by Wikipedia as sources: so people know about the sources they're using. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think he batch-created these articles from a geographic database which already had input the outdated information. I highly doubt he actually had the page number of anything in the gazetteer. SportingFlyertalk 00:54, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- wow. Under these circumstances, I think we should not keep any margin for error. What I mean is, we should not have articles about towns-settlements and similar things if they dont exist. And we have no way to verify these articles; as most of the usual RS are now flawed (and/or based on something which is flawed). As I said in my fist comment, we should delete everything. If it exists, and is notable; someone would eventually create the article for it. —usernamekiran(talk) 02:02, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- It should be cleaned up now. Someone might want to page through the thousands of JC's redirects and category creations and decide whether they're valid, someone might want to close the UAE AfDs now (the bulk ones, of course - after some complained loudly about the volume of individual ones - have attracted few votes) but the UAE geostubs are gone, baby, gone. We've retained the few valid/semi-valid ones. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 03:32, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- wow. Under these circumstances, I think we should not keep any margin for error. What I mean is, we should not have articles about towns-settlements and similar things if they dont exist. And we have no way to verify these articles; as most of the usual RS are now flawed (and/or based on something which is flawed). As I said in my fist comment, we should delete everything. If it exists, and is notable; someone would eventually create the article for it. —usernamekiran(talk) 02:02, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think he batch-created these articles from a geographic database which already had input the outdated information. I highly doubt he actually had the page number of anything in the gazetteer. SportingFlyertalk 00:54, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- And I could understand someone saying "well the Defense Mapping Agency has to know what they're doing!" Yet it turns out they had bad data. This is why I'm glad I inquired on the source: that way people can learn from this and take more due diligence on their sourcing. While I could understand Carter believing in the verifiability of the agency's work, I still think there should have been an effort to get page numbers, and also to get some background info on the source before using it. That's also why I have Wikipedia articles written on books being used by Wikipedia as sources: so people know about the sources they're using. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment: Assuming John Carter did just batch create it... it's too bad. Anyway I got scans of the original Gazetteer of the United Arab Emirates (1987) and according to that work, these are the "principal sources":
- The United Arab Emirates, 1:750,000, GEOProjects (Beirut) in association with Oxford University Press, 1981.
- Joint Operations Graphic, 1:250,000, U.S. Defense Agency or U.K. Director of Military Survey, 1966-1984
- United Arab Emirates, 1:750,000, Ministry of Cabinet Affairs, Abu Dhabi, 1974.
- Trucial States, Muscat-Oman, 1:100,000, U.K. Director of Military of Survey, 1959-1971.
WhisperToMe (talk) 16:46, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- oppose a batch delete of all articles created by John Carter. Some of the articles created by this user have passed AfD: e.g. Lulayyah, [254], [255]. The most recent AfD's can be seen at User_talk:John_Carter. It's true most got deleted, but not all of them.
- We need a list of the entire subset of 655 articles in question that are proposed to be deleted. We need an opportunity to consider all of them, and each of them individually, as necessary. Just because 100 have been deleted, doesn't mean that entire oeuvre of the editor who has been here 10 years is equally bad. Perhaps the 100 deleted are the worst ones, and the reason so many of the others have remained is because they are not as bad as those 100? I don't know. Without the list of what is left, I cannot assess.
- I do appreciate the work of Alexandermcnabb and Natureium in putting the questionable ones to AfD. It sounds like s/he might need help with that work. I might be interested in that, if the list is given and is easy to work with. Perhaps a work area that lists them all, offers opportunities for feedback on each of the articles proposed to be deleted, before they go to AfD.
- Are there other examples of mass deletions? If so, where? I am disinclined to any kind of mass deletion unless it is easy to prove that *every* item in the list should not be in the encyclopedia. I am not convinced every article created by John Carter needs to be deleted.
- If a group of articles were all created on one day with a piece of software as a batch file with little or no effort, and no one has touched those articles since then, I might support a batch delete of articles that were batch created. But we need to have some sort of clear standards on differentiating articles that have been around and improved and deserve to stay from articles that should never have been created in the first place.
- It would be nice to hear what John Carter would say. Does he even have talk page privilege? --David Tornheim (talk) 21:44, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- Articles created by Sander.v.Ginkel were mass-deleted (actually, by me) after an extensive community discussion and some salvage attempts.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:21, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- Ymblanter Where is that discussed? I don't see it on his talk page. --David Tornheim (talk) 02:59, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- See User:Aymatth2/SvG clean-up, it has further links--Ymblanter (talk) 08:33, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks. --David Tornheim (talk) 19:54, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- See User:Aymatth2/SvG clean-up, it has further links--Ymblanter (talk) 08:33, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Ymblanter Where is that discussed? I don't see it on his talk page. --David Tornheim (talk) 02:59, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Articles created by Sander.v.Ginkel were mass-deleted (actually, by me) after an extensive community discussion and some salvage attempts.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:21, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
- Support mass deleting all of the stubs. While it's clear John Carter made a lot of friends on article talkpages discussing things (50% of his edits), especially in his first couple of years on Wikipedia, his mainspace edits were only 13% of his editing and left much to be desired [256]. The distressingly inaccurate and unresearched stubs, relying only on an inaccurate and extremely outdated source, are too problematic to let stand, and too numerous to pore over singly at this point after Alexander McNabb has found 99% of them to be demonstrably false (he has lived in the UAE for 25 years and has even driven to the putative sites to check on the putative locations of these inaccurate article stubs). The good will JC garnered on article talk has seemingly blinded the community to the problems of his mainspace editing. His indef is sort of symptomatic of that, in that we didn't see he was a disruptive or problem editor until well down the line. Softlavender (talk) 06:23, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment: As WhisperToMe shows above, the stubs are based on hopelessly out of date information and archaic transliteration of Arabic that that's been through a sort of government to government Chinese Whispers process and bears almost (like 99%) no resemblance to the modern human geography of the UAE. ALL of the UAE geostubs that SHOULD have been AfDd have been nominated (it would be nice to close them all, BTW!!!!). So as far as this stuff goes, we're good. Whatever ELSE Mr Carter created needs to be scanned by an admin, IMHO, but the UAE stuff has now been cleaned up. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:47, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- Nuke him Better that 100 valid articles be deleted than that one blatant garbage article remain. EEng 02:47, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- None of this encyclopedia would be left if we nuked 100 valid articles for every 1 garbage article. --David Tornheim (talk) 02:59, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- It'd be more productive if a couple of people could look for the AfD nominations and slip a vote in so we can get the bad articles deleted: there's a danger they'll fail AfD because of lack of consensus and remain by default simply because nobody's voted on 'em. This one Bani 'Udayd, for example. It's noteworthy that the individual AfDs I did created a fuss with some users shaking fists at me for overloading Articles for Deletion and yet the bulk AfDs have generally attracted fewer votes. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 03:41, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Alexandermcnabb, if you want the articles deleted, then !vote support for mass deletion. At this point no one wants to wade through another hundred AfDs. Softlavender (talk) 04:05, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose There are a number of articles he created about the UAE which are still up, all over a decade old. Some articles are okay, like Habhab. Most are not. I support bulk deletion, but I think the articles should be carefully identified - either unreferenced stubs or only stubs referenced to the 1987 Gazetteer, which has been shown to be an unreliable source for this sort of work. SportingFlyer talk 12:30, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
- Support It's better to err on the side of deletion, because if the article is legitimate, the sources for it will be out there and the article will be eventually reconstructed. It's far more damaging if misinformation is left in place, because as Softlavender has said, this misinformation has already spread all over the internet. This is not only very bad for Wikipedia's reputation, it's also terrible for internet users as a whole, since search engines (for some reason) have decided to use Wikipedia as a primary source of truth. In an era where "fake news" is far too common already, the deletion must be done as soon as possible to avoid further damage. – FenixFeather (talk)(Contribs) 01:22, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. I went to the start of his creations and did an AFD on what I think might be some nonsense. I've just had to withdraw it Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Diarmait ua Tigernáin. Much as I'd like to mass delete him I think we're just going to have to go through them individually. Szzuk (talk) 16:13, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: (additional reason to oppose) Isn't the proper process for bundling AfDs to use WP:MULTIAFD? I still haven't figured out why this request is posted here rather than AfD. I support using that process. However, from many comments above, I think the question is moot, and would probably support closing this thread and moving the discussion to AfD where I think it belongs (whether open or closed). --David Tornheim (talk) 19:58, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Are you saying I should have multi-AfD'd 600 pages? Natureium (talk) 20:33, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I don't know. I am primarily asking a question about policy. From reading WP:MULTIAFD, it appears to me that is the policy for handling the bundling of multiple articles proposed for deletion, which includes articles created by WP:SPAs and "clearly in bad faith." There is no special exception for hundreds or thousands of articles or for articles created by blocked editors, by batch create, by templates, etc. Perhaps there is an exception or should be an exception, but, if so, I believe such exception should be clearly mentioned at WP:MULTIAFD to avoid confusion.
- Above Ymblanter pointed to User:Aymatth2/SvG_clean-up where over 1,000 articles were up for possible deletion. I don't know what process preceded that centralized discussion. For example, was it advertised at WP:AfD?
- My main point, as a regular at WP:AfD, is that I feel that discussions of deletions of articles or batches of articles belong at AfD, or if they are not at AfD, then there should be a big pointer saying, "There is a discussion about deleting a batch of 600 articles here." It seems somewhat out of process to have the discussion of deletion of so many articles so far removed from AfD without even a mention at AfD--if there was such mention, I didn't see it. But I'm not claiming to know. I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this. I'm asking whether having a discussion of multiple deletions here rather than AfD is normal. I don't know.
- @DGG: As a regular at AfD, do you have any thoughts on whether discussions of bundled AfDs should be at AN/I, AfD or both? --David Tornheim (talk) 21:39, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Are you saying I should have multi-AfD'd 600 pages? Natureium (talk) 20:33, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Normally, I would say deletion discussions should be at AfD, but the advantage of doing it here is that it will get a good deal more general attention. I am not generally in favor of mass deletions, except when they all came form the same questionable source, and have none of them been expanded. In previous cases, like svG, there were a number of pages worth rescuing. So, like David Tornheim, I think we need to go through them, and then do a mass AfD on the others--which seems to be what we already decided to do. The alternative is mass deletion, taking note of the ones that are worth re-creating, and actually re-creating them, not just waiting for someone to do it some day. Just deleting and hoping for someone to come along eventually is I think less than fully responsible unless there is no practical alternative.
- There's a much more serious problem however: if I understand the discussion correctly, the data for these came from what we would normally use as unquestionably reliable sources. Apparent they, like us, were susceptible to not sroperly screening input from older possible unreliable sources. We rely on the expert secondary sources, such as USDMA, to use professional expertise in analyzing and including data, such as the survey data here. To the extent that we cannot do this, we are faced with a situation actually requiring Original Research to validate the information we enter. I've said it before as " no source is totally reliable for all purposes. We were depend on experts to identify the problems here--in other fields we do this also, as with academic bios I know what is expected and can be accepted at face value if there's an apparently RS , and what is unlikely, and needs to be checked for accuracy and exaggeration, even though there might appear to be a RS. Others do this elsewhere, and the best areas of WP are the ones where we have such expertise.
- I thing we've all been particularly aware of this sort of problem with respect to Wikidata, which has in the past been very casual about sourcing, but it has from the first affected us also. Since the rest of the world, quite unaware of our limitations, seems unfortunately determined to use WP and WD as reliable sources for everything, the way we work needs to change. We certainly didn't want the responsibility, but since people rely on us, we have to do what people do in the RW when others rely on them for something: try as hard as we can to meet their expectations, while also giving cautions. DGG ( talk ) 04:32, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oh, lads lads! What a thread! I agree (FWIW) with DGG above, but PLEASE bear in mind the UAE stubs have been dealt with now. We had to pick through 'em one by one because in amongst the considerable cruft were salvageable articles. Some with moves or redirects, to be fair. I agree there's a larger problem with sourcing blindly (and glibly just slipping in a reference to a whole body of work as a single source with no reference to page numbers or other sources - to be fair, these wouldn't have passed AfC but then Carter was autopatrolled, no?) and POSSIBLY a larger problem with other Carter Creations, but where I've dipped in (like Szzuk above), I've found good information there - and a LOAD of Categories and Redirects which I'm not qualified to judge on. I don't think you can Nuke Carter (I tried to find a reason to use Get Carter but failed) on the evidence of the UAE work alone. He's created thousands of other articles and they may well all be valid as far as I know. Just because he slammed a load of dubious info in from the US Gazetteer doesn't mean his other work is invalid. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:17, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- @DGG: Thanks for your input. Your posts are always well thought out and well reasoned. I had hoped to meet you at the WikiConference 2018, but you were too popular, and always surrounded by other editors and admins. :)
- Two questions: (1) Should the WP:MULTIAFD be changed to reflect the option of doing a mass deletion discussion here for the reasons you suggest? I'm on the verge of making such a proposal at the talk page, but want a little more feedback first. (2) If mass deletion discussions are to take place at somewhere other than WP:AfD, shouldn't we have a requirement of a big notice at the AfD board about that mass deletion discussion? Shouldn't we have a notice at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion#Current_and_past_Articles_for_deletion_(AfD)_discussions. Even though I go to AfD frequently, I did not discover this discussion until after it had been going on for quite some time, and as far as I can tell it's still not there. I feel like there are some process/notification issues that should be codified and followed so that regulars at AfD don't miss out on mass deletion discussions and WP:MULTIAFD discussions. I believe a separate section in Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion#Current_and_past_Articles_for_deletion_(AfD)_discussions for WP:MULTIAFD discussions might be in order. That would get even more eyes on those discussions. --David Tornheim (talk) 05:25, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- you are right: wherever the discussion is held it needs to be advertised at other appropriate places. I too am one of the editors more likely to be found at AfD than at ANI, bjt it remains true that ANI is the more likely to bring it to the notice of a wider range of editors, I wouldn't want tot institutionalize a requirement on where to post:: we gave more than enough bureaucratic requirements, and should rely more on common sense, and individual initiative. Mt own view remains that multiple afd nominations are rarely a good idea, and tatr mass speeedy deletionsd are almost never appropriate, unless it is clear that everything from an editor is useless junk. DGG ( talk ) 08:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
205.189.94.17
205.189.94.17 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
This editor has a habit of adding the {{linkrot}} tag to articles. Many of these have 50+ references and only one or two bare URLs; it would be far better to fix the links. When I brought this up on User talk:205.189.94.17, their response was abusive, and that IP has made hostile remarks in the past. I think some form of block is needed. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:23, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- And they just spammed another link rot tag into another article (Greenland) I left a warning for them. JC7V-talk 21:35, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I feel that there is a misunderstanding here. To start please see Wikipedia:Bare URLs. If there is even one bare url in an article then the linkrot tag is appropriate. Fixing bare urls is something that a few of us work away at and having these tags added to articles is a help in finding the ones that need fixing. The person editing from this IP likes adding the linkrot tag (it can be seen as a form of Wikipedia:Editcountitis) and can seem to be adding too many of them, but, that is not the case. I should say that I used to feel that these were a nuisance like Power~enwiki does now. Then a year or so ago I started working with refill and reflinks and realized the mistake that I was making. There are times that I wish they would slow down a bit but, again, the bare urls need to be fixed eventually. Also, the IP occasionally adds the template to articles that don't have bare urls but that is not a major concern. OTOH their hostility is problematic. This is just one editors experience and others may disagree but I wanted to try and explain why some editors may be at loggerheads with the IP. MarnetteDTalk 21:56, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I left out the fact that the IP is not the only editor who adds the template. There are several other editors including Northamerica1000 who add them to articles as needed. Maybe they can explain things from their perspective. MarnetteDTalk 22:02, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- That does explain the edits a bit better. If they'll walk back some of their hostility hopefully they can continue to contribute. power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Speaking from both perspectives, I add the template, and where possible make the corrections, using the same two tools MarnetteD does. Sometimes while running those tools, I'll get sidetracked on a different article, and by the time I get back to it to save the changes, Derek R Bullamore will have already made the corrections. Other times, I'll add the template (simply so I can run reflinks), run the tool, and it won't fix all the raw links. Those times I leave the template so that someone like Marnette or Derek will finish the clean-up. But anyone who looks at my talk page knows what a stickler I am for civility, and the IP really needs to make some changes to their tone. Onel5969 TT me 00:08, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- That does explain the edits a bit better. If they'll walk back some of their hostility hopefully they can continue to contribute. power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I left out the fact that the IP is not the only editor who adds the template. There are several other editors including Northamerica1000 who add them to articles as needed. Maybe they can explain things from their perspective. MarnetteDTalk 22:02, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I feel that there is a misunderstanding here. To start please see Wikipedia:Bare URLs. If there is even one bare url in an article then the linkrot tag is appropriate. Fixing bare urls is something that a few of us work away at and having these tags added to articles is a help in finding the ones that need fixing. The person editing from this IP likes adding the linkrot tag (it can be seen as a form of Wikipedia:Editcountitis) and can seem to be adding too many of them, but, that is not the case. I should say that I used to feel that these were a nuisance like Power~enwiki does now. Then a year or so ago I started working with refill and reflinks and realized the mistake that I was making. There are times that I wish they would slow down a bit but, again, the bare urls need to be fixed eventually. Also, the IP occasionally adds the template to articles that don't have bare urls but that is not a major concern. OTOH their hostility is problematic. This is just one editors experience and others may disagree but I wanted to try and explain why some editors may be at loggerheads with the IP. MarnetteDTalk 21:56, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
The main complaint is invalid and the Level 4 Warning of the IP is abusive- the IP is performing a useful maintenance function. The uncivil comments in response to people complaining about his/her long history of useful actions are somewhat understandable and pretty tame compared to the rude uncivil comments glossed over on this very page in the last several weeks. This is clearly not actionable and one of the editors that reverted my very valid NAC knows it very well having argued that vulgar insults are perfectly fine. I stand by my right and ability to do good NAC's and urge other editors to respect them. Legacypac (talk) 09:30, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I have never called another editor the R word. Look, you made a close, I reverted it. That's how it works. If someone feels a close was hasty or incorrect, they are allowed to revert it to continue the discussion. You are not an administrator, so your close does not carry the weight of one either. Multiple editors have spoken about this issue and it's importance to being resolved. You coming in and making overarching statements is not helpful, especially when you are trying to apply your own frustrations with past issues to this one. That's not fair to any of us. --Tarage (talk) 09:41, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Also I should note that an editor who has been blocked for personal attacks and uncivil comments should not be making statements about how they are glossed over... --Tarage (talk) 09:42, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I've never been blocked for personal attacks or uncivil comments - so you can rescind your personal attack. The rest of your comment is pretty lame. Less established editors bringing such a weak complaint as the OP might face a boomerang. The diffs in your first response hardly support what you said about the IP. Legacypac (talk) 09:47, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Your block log says differently. 15:59, 16 May 2016, 19:21, 14 February 2018, and 11:13, 19 April 2018. Regardless of the rescinded nature of two of them, the comments on your talk page from the unblocking admin show that they were not unwarranted blocks. Again, please keep your personal grudges out of this section please. Your close was uncalled for. --Tarage (talk) 09:55, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) 205.189.94.17 was tricky, which keep asking to add the template in Talk:Juventus F.C. in September. All but one link were already fixed by this edit (Special:Diff/859662513). Instead of fixing himself by posting edit request of that specific link (the page was indef semi-protected since 2010, which may be too high), he keep asking to add the template, nor point out which link need to fix. Thus causing the personal attack in User talk:205.189.94.17#Link rot can be fixed with WP:REFILL. While the rest is depends on other editors on judging his communication and edits are collaboration or not. Matthew hk (talk) 09:52, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I've never been blocked for personal attacks or uncivil comments - so you can rescind your personal attack. The rest of your comment is pretty lame. Less established editors bringing such a weak complaint as the OP might face a boomerang. The diffs in your first response hardly support what you said about the IP. Legacypac (talk) 09:47, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Also I should note that an editor who has been blocked for personal attacks and uncivil comments should not be making statements about how they are glossed over... --Tarage (talk) 09:42, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I agree with the OP that spamming linkrot tags onto hundreds of articles when there are only one or two bare URLs and the majority of the the citations are filled out is disruptive editing, because the appropriate response to one or two bare URLs is to fill them in instead of tag. This is particularly easy to do with WP:REFILL. The editor already has seven or so warnings on his talkpage and several discussions about the linkrot tag and REFILL. I'd say it's time for a block unless he has stopped and agrees to fill out bares instead of blindly tagging. Softlavender (talk) 09:55, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Pinging Ad Orientem and Vaselineeeeeeee. -- Softlavender (talk) 10:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- The tag exists for a reason and as long as it exists it is fine to use it. I have over 30,000 pages on watchlist, and many are new with bare urls. I see these tags added and then solved quickly all the time. The problem here is the editors attacking the IP for doing a boring but evidently desirable task. Lots of editors DO NOT use Refill and we can't and should not force anyone to fill in refs. Legacypac (talk) 10:01, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- But people don't personal attack (see edit summary) or ask other people to fix the bare url for him. Sometimes we post task to some noticeboard for others to follow up, but not ask, command them to do so. Matthew hk (talk) 10:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- The tag exists for a reason and as long as it exists it is fine to use it. I have over 30,000 pages on watchlist, and many are new with bare urls. I see these tags added and then solved quickly all the time. The problem here is the editors attacking the IP for doing a boring but evidently desirable task. Lots of editors DO NOT use Refill and we can't and should not force anyone to fill in refs. Legacypac (talk) 10:01, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I would suggest a topic ban of using that template. From recent edit the finally fix some url by himself, but still some communication issue such as this one (Special:Diff/866669016). Matthew hk (talk) 10:29, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Please see the template documentation for {{linkrot}}:
Before adding this template, please head over to toollabs:refill, paste into the text box the name of the page with bare references, then click the "Fix page" button. Wait patiently for the program to finish filling in all citation templates for each bare reference. When the result page is loaded, please double-check the changes made in the diff preview on the result page and fix the errors before clicking the "Show preview" button at the bottom. References that could not be filled in with the tool will be listed on the page. On the actual editing interface on-wiki, you may wish to check the changes once again and use Ohconfucius's scripts to automatically correct some mistakes. When everything looks fine, click the "Publish changes" button to save your changes.
-- Softlavender (talk) 10:08, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- He uses multiple IPs:
Multiple IPs (modified) |
---|
Has used these addresses: Only one other IP used in range; not necessarily related to him |
...to elaborate on his activities.
— Berean Hunter(talk) 12:12, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- All of the ip were linked to Scarborough Public Library of Toronto Public Library system. It just means more than one person using the library to edit wikipedia, as well as he can jump to another up of that range by change to use another public computers of the library. Matthew hk (talk) 13:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, very rude editor, and also very lazy in my opinion. Adding this template to thousands of articles as their sole job, probably half of which if not more can be fixed almost as fast by using REFILL—something that actually helps the problem. To me, this editor does not care about the bare links as an issue itself, and only wants to cause disruption, further seen at his talk page when more experienced editors try to give them suggestions to actually help fix the issue. If the bare links were actually an issue to them, they would try to fix some, especially where only one or two are broken instead of adding the template. Pure disruption in my opinion and a net negative to the project, especially with their toxic behaviour. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 12:54, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- "Are you blind?"..."Bungler" is him and is currently blocked there as 205.189.94.13. I believe the one he calls "shithead" for being responsible for the block was sitting in his chair. He then made a personal attack and followed up with attacking the admin corps with "incompetent, power-crazed bunglers"...."You clowns"...sounds just like "Some misinformed clown"...
- 205.189.94.11 just came off of being blocked for a year and a half between two blocks (log)
- 205.189.94.12 was blocked for one year by NeilN on March 10.
- 205.189.94.13 spent the last two years blocked but it expired recently. block log
- 205.189.94.0/27 is the range. Anon blocking it may be in order...he looks to be already blocked and evading. Objections or support?
— Berean Hunter(talk)
- Well, they've earned a block anyway with these comments even if they're not already blocked, which I think it's pretty obvious they are. I don't recognize the abuse, it's probably just some bored kid with a library card. Block away. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:13, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- /27 range anonblocked one year. Based on what I've seen, it won't surprise me if the talkpage access will have to be revoked soon.
— Berean Hunter(talk) 20:43, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- /27 range anonblocked one year. Based on what I've seen, it won't surprise me if the talkpage access will have to be revoked soon.
- Well, they've earned a block anyway with these comments even if they're not already blocked, which I think it's pretty obvious they are. I don't recognize the abuse, it's probably just some bored kid with a library card. Block away. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:13, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- strongly oppose blocking any public library for that length of time, even as an anon-only block. I've been receiving multiple complaints about such bocks, and in almost all cases, I agrrr with the poeople complaining. We need tio encourage new users, and it is entirely reasojable that a new user might first want to edit from a library. We sghould block for only the minimum period necessary to stop the immediate absue, The practice of using long clocks in such cases started in the days before we had edit filters, where vandalism was even more serious a problem than now. I do not mean to imply we should not act to stop vandalism, inly that a range block to stop it should be the minimum that seems possible, I'm going to shorten the block to one month, If it continues after that, we can discuss again how tro deal with it. DGG ( talk ) 07:40, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- They could use ACC. "We sghould block for only the minimum period necessary to stop the immediate absue," It has been going on for many months with this particular user. Previous blocks on multiple IPs were lengthy and this only covers a handful of machines. "I've been receiving multiple complaints about such bocks, and in almost all cases" but not this one so don't make generalizations that do not apply. You didn't receive a complaint about this one and if you did, it was from a sock.
— Berean Hunter(talk) 09:22, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- They could use ACC. "We sghould block for only the minimum period necessary to stop the immediate absue," It has been going on for many months with this particular user. Previous blocks on multiple IPs were lengthy and this only covers a handful of machines. "I've been receiving multiple complaints about such bocks, and in almost all cases" but not this one so don't make generalizations that do not apply. You didn't receive a complaint about this one and if you did, it was from a sock.
More on range block of character encoding vandal
IP blocked, and nothing else needed to be done here. (non-admin closure) — MRD2014 Talk 17:00, 3 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Previous: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Would a short range block work here?
2A01:119F:21E:4D00:35E9:48B:4265:5E02 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log): character encoding vandal managed to escape his /64 rangeblock.
--Guy Macon (talk) 14:25, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Blocked for a month. I think that'll do it, but I'm not sure. If not, that's a pretty wide IP range. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:38, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
116.87.11.141 block request
Blocked for 1 year by Widr Alex Cohn (let's chat!) 15:54, 4 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
116.87.11.141 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) is back at it after the last 3-month block. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 10:19, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Kuru666 blocked, similar edits continue?
Both IPs blocked for block evasion . Kpgjhpjm 02:05, 6 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have noticed continued addition of an edit made initially by Kuru666 on the Battle of St. Quentin.[263] Once Kuru666 was blocked indefinitely, multiple IPs have continued to make the same edit.
- 5.157.113.162 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 78.134.56.153 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Perhaps an Admin can address this issue. Thanks. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:47, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Both IPs have been blocked for block evasion. One by me and one by another administrator. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:31, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Talk page problems
Ouranista has been leaving hostile messages on my talk page at User talk:Lullabying#Civility in Editing (but removing them later on), some of them over edit warring over changes made to Free! (TV series). lullabying (talk) 19:00, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Messages left include the following:
- lullabying (talk) 19:27, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
I admit to a short message that I tried to delete. I thought it was, but somehow it was reposted with a response from Lullabying. I have not left multiple messages nor have I engaged in editing wars. However, much of the editing that has stood in place for years has now been altered by Lullabying with the terms "Flowery" and "Fancruft" as justification. I have left lullabying's edits as valid, though personally deemed unnecessarily curt, but have made some factual edits since and reverted what seemed to be a retaliatory edit to include information critical to the protagonist of the series. I do not see my actions as hostile. On the contrary. I tried to correct an error I made and lullabying has escalated this into something else altogether. Please respond as to how I should proceed from this point as I wish to remain a contributor and positive member of the Wikipedia community. Thank you for your attention to this matter. luxartisan 19:22, 2 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ouranista (talk • contribs)
- I have left lullabying's edits as valid, though personally deemed unnecessarily curt, but have made some factual edits since and reverted what seemed to be a retaliatory edit to include information critical to the protagonist of the series. Regarding this response, I did not make the edit with the intention of retaliating and have only gone out of my way to shorten summaries as I have been doing on other articles due to extra information already implied in the current text and WP:NOTFANWEBSITE.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Free!_(TV_series)&oldid=866965839 This edit was also reverted without explanation. lullabying (talk) 23:17, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: I see a couple of issues here, mostly on Ouranista's part.
- First and foremost, I'm bothered by the lack of unsigned or improperly signed comments from this individual. Messages are signed with four tides; even a beginner knows that. You've been here for 3 years, so there's absolutely no excuse for this.
- Secondly, you don't seem to understand that Wikipedia isn't a fansite. On a fansite, you could add as much info as you want; on Wikipedia, we keep things brief. Lullabying is doing the right thing by abiding by site policy, which you don't seem to see as important.
- Lastly, if this continues to be a problem, then you may have competence issues. Hopefully, you'll take this opportunity to read the policies Lullabying had linked to you. I do not think a sanction is necessary at the moment. And if you ask me, this shouldn't even be on ANI. Sk8erPrince (talk) 02:13, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you for a quick turnaround in responding. I agree that this should not have gone to ANI. I am now adding four tildes - hope they show up. luxartisan 04:49, 3 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ouranista (talk • contribs)
Chris Janson
Lboullt (talk · contribs) appears to be a sockpuppet or closely related to Kibus1 (talk · contribs), a user that was previously removing content from Chris Janson back in 2012. The Kibus1 account claimed to be one of Janson's reps, and was constantly removing valid, sourced, and neutral content from the article. Much of the removal is the same -- such as the passage on Janson doing duets with Holly Williams, or arbitrary changing of chart peaks to charts other than Billboard. Note that at the time of the Kibus1 account's edits, two of his reps contacted me through outside sources. One found me via Facebook made legal threats, which I did not act on at the time because they backed down. The other was far more sympathetic and agreed that the material on Holly Williams was not harmful in any way. A friend of mine who was also my editor when I still wrote for the blog Roughstock.com, and said friend told me that he talked to Janson personally about his Wikipedia article, and that he confessed to both overreaction and ignorance on how Wikipedia works.
tl;dr: can I please get a few more eyes on this? I don't want a six-year-old edit war to flare up again. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 06:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Rangeblock needed for block evasion
Rangeblocked for 3 months. Kpgjhpjm 02:09, 6 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- 2601:1c2:4e02:3020:58b6:3bf9:1f74:9353 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 2601:1c2:4e02:3020:1:d1ae:8321:edb7 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
An IPv6 user (2nd linked above) has been disruptive on Talk:Cultural appropriation. Looking at the /64 range, I noticed a single IPv6 (1st linked above) had been recently blocked and the block was still active. I'm requesting the entire /64 range be blocked.
Range: 2601:1C2:4E02:3020::/64
EvergreenFir (talk) 06:48, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Range blocked for three months to match the IP block. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:52, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Range block request
Howdy, a range block should be in place for the Stauner sock-puppet. Its latest incarnation Die Stauner linked an inhuman video to the User page of a recently deceased editor. GoodDay (talk) 01:13, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- I've blocked the user indef. A checkuser would be needed to look at anything else, and whether a rangeblock would be possible. Raising an SPI would be useful here. Black Kite (talk) 01:19, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Kokborok language / topic ban for editor
Editor Abel Tiprasa has been active since March 2018 on topics relating to the Indian tribal language Kokborok. My first interaction with the editor was during NPP reviewing his article Kokborok script. The article had hallmarks of POV fork soapboxing while at the same time being poorly sourced. The deletion discussion led to the article being redirected to the main topic about Kokborok. By way of background: a) the Kokborok language is a tribal language spoken by various tribes in India; b) the written system of the language has been lost since the 19th century; c) the official writing systems are Bengali or Latin scrip; d) the choice of script is a contentious issue along a political and tribal divide; e) there is a faction within the native speaker group proposing to revitalise a native Kokborok script; f) since the ancient script is lost, the new script is at this point mere proposal, there are many proposals, none of which are adopted. This is supported by these sources: (1), (2), (3), (4), (5), (6). In this diff the user expressed his view that the deleted article about Kokborok script would serve as platform for editors to share ideas about the future of a new script and develop a script. This is clearly not a purpose of Wikipedia. Other disruptive edits include the arbitrary change of native speakers here, addition of a proposed script from a self-created file here, unsourced POV edits such as this. I appreciate the editor's good intentions, however his edits amount to Soapboxing. In line with WP:CASTE I therefore request a topic ban on Kokborok language and script for the editor. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 14:05, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- I am not sure we're at the point of a topic ban right now. He was warned about the discretionary sanctions on October 23 [264]. Since then, he has conducted just two edits, both of which are non-disruptive [265][266]. It's worth keeping an eye on, but I do not think action against him is warranted at this point. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:32, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Hammersoft: the second of the diffs you provided may be considered disruptive: he re-instated the POV-esque content that was previously removed and which he was warned about. pseudonymJake Brockmantalk 15:13, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe. I'd get discussion going with him and see where that leads. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:30, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- There have been a number of conversations, such as this, where he called an edit "nonsense" assuming the other person does not speak the language and should therefore refrain from edits. This is continued here. Clear in-article soapboxing here. There is this conversation on my talk page in April about the same topic, referring him to key principles of Wikipedia. Yet the edits along this line have continued. pseudonymJake Brockmantalk 15:59, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- I don't disagree with you, but since the notification about discretionary sanctions was made, there's only been two edits. Other opinions may vary certainly. But, I don't see there's a need to topic ban him under the discretionary sanctions when he's barely edited since being notified of them. If the pattern continues, perhaps. For now, I think it's too early. I'm not the final arbiter here. I'm just suggesting trying to engage him in discussion again, given that he now knows about the discretionary sanctions. It's worth a shot. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:03, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- I see your point, however I'd argue that the discretionary sanctions had been mentioned in the AfD in April (in which he participated), the articles are tagged as in scope and there have been attempts to communicate with the editor in March, April and September about the purpose of Wikipedia, however the edit pattern appears to indicate either a lack of understanding or a lack of regard.pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 09:26, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
- There have been a number of conversations, such as this, where he called an edit "nonsense" assuming the other person does not speak the language and should therefore refrain from edits. This is continued here. Clear in-article soapboxing here. There is this conversation on my talk page in April about the same topic, referring him to key principles of Wikipedia. Yet the edits along this line have continued. pseudonymJake Brockmantalk 15:59, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- @Hammersoft: the second of the diffs you provided may be considered disruptive: he re-instated the POV-esque content that was previously removed and which he was warned about. pseudonymJake Brockmantalk 15:13, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
- Addendum. Further clarification has been sought, the user has been made aware of this discussion. However, without response and participation, there has just been a new article creation on the same topic, Khorongma script. No sourcing, links to blogs as currently only external source. Essentially similar contents to previous soapboxing about a made up script. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 08:29, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- I guess there's a competency issue here. It's always hard to decide what to do in these circumstances. Deb (talk) 11:45, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Deb: I tend to agree. I do see where the editor is coming from and he probably has good intentions, however the execution is defective. It's quite amazing: I did not even know this language and those tribes existed half a year ago and now I can almost give lectures from what I learned using the few sources that are online. I was thinking that maybe I could mentor the user, but the communication channels seem somewhat closed. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 09:26, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- I guess there's a competency issue here. It's always hard to decide what to do in these circumstances. Deb (talk) 11:45, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
User:Mr rnddude
This is going nowhere Legacypac (talk) 03:14, 6 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Mr rnddude has been granted rollback rights and therefore knows what it is and more importantly, what it is not and when never to use it. We have an ongoing problem on Liberland.
- This editor boldy asserted himself by blanking an amassment of edits including copyedits, all on the pretext of "last good version". If he believed there was a problem, nobody stopped him hitting 'edit' and making adjustments. As his summary is a clear fig-leaf for his own wikipedia:correct version, I felt vindicated in reverting him.
- Knowing he is welcome to use the talk page, this editor reverted content dispute under the guise of "vandalism".
- The editor was warned that what he was blanking was NOT vandalism. Content dispute maybe (not that he explained his demurrals) but vandalism, not a chance.
- The editor ignored TWO courtesy notifications explaining that it was not vandalism and abused Rollback[267].
- The editor was then informed that this was not the correct way to use Rollback, needless to say he was engaged in an edit war (as I too had been but have stopped), and he responded by flagrantly abusing Rollback a second consecutive time.
Please note that the terms and conditions of Rollback are clearly and prominently displayed at its article. To claim vandalism in one edit and then use it twice, one would expect the editor in question to have issued warnings and eventually reported me (or the IP to this very article). However, one look at this editor's activities and it is clear that he knows that to report me (or the IP I used as I got logged out involuntarily) for vandalism is without hope, and it is also clear that he doesn't give a monkey about WP policy as he is clearly slapping the admin to grant him Rollback in the face and looks like he has no intention of stopping. I strongly suggest a temporary block of this editor along with his unconditional withdrawal of Rollback. --Ishmailer (talk) 01:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- So you're also sockpuppeting. Well for one, the vandalism was reinstated by you editing as an IP (so I couldn't exactly report your account). For two, I am currently writing a request for PP, though your pinging me keeps diverting my attention away from that. Anybody who looks at my editing history can easily determine that I don't use rollback often, and that I don't use it for no reason. I have a solid editing history. Do I need to request a CU for Ishmailer and their IP, or has that been determined by the fact that an admin has revdelled their logged out editing.
violation of 3RR, btw: 1, 2, 3 and 4Strike reason: They've self reverted their fourth revert, that makes the 3RR issue moot. Mr rnddude (talk) 02:12, 6 November 2018 (UTC)- OK as I have nothing to hide, you're welcome to request SPU in my name. But as the system goes, the socking has to be established first before the Rollback can be used. You're jumping to conclusions by putting the cart before the horse. And besides, you didn't say "rv sock", you said "rvv" which tells admins and observers that you're reverting vandalism, and you know there was no vandalism. --Ishmailer (talk) 02:17, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Well, Ishmailer indicated above that the IP edits on Liberland were them and made accidentally due to being logged out. I don't see any need to file an SPI or have information "brought to light" that the editor has already brought to light themselves and openly. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:27, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I hadn't noted their disclosure that the IP was theirs. I only noted that the IP had been revdelled, and that I was now suddenly receiving a notification from Ishmailer (rather than the IP who was threatening me). For the record, that 'amassment of edits were entirely Ishmailer's, continuing their editwar with another editor. I am not an involved editor at the article, and have not edited the article in any capacity other than to revert vandalism. E.g. this. Mr rnddude (talk) 02:30, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- That wasn't WP:VANDALISM either. Even I admit it was disruptive because Liberland is not sovereign, but some look at it that way. That was just a POV issue. Liberland is a micronation but the edit war I had with Thomas.W was down to him constantly calling it a microstate as he clearly has no idea the difference between one and the other. --Ishmailer (talk) 02:42, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I was referring to the edit war over this edit a couple days ago, in which you remove "micronation" from multiple places in the article. Mr rnddude (talk) 02:57, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- That wasn't WP:VANDALISM either. Even I admit it was disruptive because Liberland is not sovereign, but some look at it that way. That was just a POV issue. Liberland is a micronation but the edit war I had with Thomas.W was down to him constantly calling it a microstate as he clearly has no idea the difference between one and the other. --Ishmailer (talk) 02:42, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I hadn't noted their disclosure that the IP was theirs. I only noted that the IP had been revdelled, and that I was now suddenly receiving a notification from Ishmailer (rather than the IP who was threatening me). For the record, that 'amassment of edits were entirely Ishmailer's, continuing their editwar with another editor. I am not an involved editor at the article, and have not edited the article in any capacity other than to revert vandalism. E.g. this. Mr rnddude (talk) 02:30, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Because Ishmailer indicated here that they edited the article while accidentally while logged out, the IP information has been suppressed for privacy reasons. Since Ishmailer edited while logged out during the time that is relevant to the issue they're reporting here, I'm listing the three edit summaries that Mr rnddude used while reverting Ishmailer's edits on Liberland with the IP information redacted as to make any relevant information available for scrutiny in this ANI report:
- (diff) 01:40, 6 November 2018 Mr rnddude (Reverted edits by IP ADDRESS (talk) to last version by Mr rnddude) (Tag: Rollback)
- (diff) 01:37, 6 November 2018 Mr rnddude (Reverted edits by IP ADDRESS (talk) to last version by Mr rnddude) (Tag: Rollback)
- (diff) 01:35, 6 November 2018 Mr rnddude (Undid revision 867488442 by IP ADDRESS (talk) Rvv) (Tag: Undo)
- Please let me know if anyone has any questions about this and I'll be happy to answer them so long as they don't make any private or redacted information public. Regards - ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
That is a lot of overdramatic statements in one post Ishmailer. You might want to take a few deep breaths and have some coffee for you seem very worked up over a little editing. Legacypac (talk) 02:25, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's not that Legacypac. A short time ago I got carried away in an edit war with Thomas.W and had quit my session when all along I was being reported and then I found myself blocked. Yet he was the one with the audacity to report me, and whilst I was in the editing wilderness, he expeditiously reverted me thus breaching 3rr himself. I reported it when my block was lifted but it was dismissed because we were "out of time". Now this is the second time an editor has breached policy over the same issue and I am rapidly concluding that rules don't mean anything when veteran editors with gold-plated reputations violate them, but only when those viewed as less favourable to the cartel overstep the terms. But thanks for your well-meaning sentiments. It's very kind. --Ishmailer (talk) 02:33, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Summary: Mr rnddude used Rollback in good faith once, and then used it again either in good faith or in the heat of the moment. The OP is advised to avoid editing logged out, particularly to edit war. The end. Are we done here, or does the OP need a boomerang for socking as an IP to edit-war? Softlavender (talk) 03:03, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Unsourced POV-pushing by User:Arbaz khan Tanoli
(non-admin closure) User indeffed ―Abelmoschus Esculentus 14:19, 6 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Arbaz khan Tanoli (talk · contribs) is of the strong opinion that the Tanoli are Pashtuns. He created POV forks like Tanoli (pashtun) . Practically every edit in articlespace either emphasizes that the Tanoli are Pashtuns (without sources) or sings the glory of the Tanoli, either as a tribe or by highlighting individuals (again without sources). Examples are Tanoli, Kangra (Khyber Pakhtunkwa), Amb (princely state), Nawabzada Salahuddin Saeed. In the last few days there are also a bunch of IP edits that likely are Arbaz khan Tanoli editing without logging in, e.g. from 103.255.7.16; the pattern is the same. I have tried to explain the issue here; I don't think I succeeded. There are multiple messages by others left on Arbaz khan Tanoli's user talk page; most haven't been acknowledged, and when there was a reply it didn't show any understanding of the problems. Most of the content Arbaz khan Tanoli is removing or modifying wasn't sourced either, so for all I know he might even be right, but repeated additions of unsourced content and POV-pushing is not acceptable. Given the lack of communication and WP:CIR issues, a block may be necessary to stop further disruption. I have by now become involved in the content issues, so I don't want to do it myself. Huon (talk) 11:12, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Done, user blocked indef and advised to post an unblock request detailing how they are going to edit if they get unblocked.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:34, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Recruiting, COI accusation and intimidation by User:R3ap3R
Evidence suggests that R3ap3R (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) edited Gab (social network) in response to a recruiting/canvasing effort from the entity in question.
This user added obvious marketing claims [268] to the first sentense ("that focuses on freedom of speech without censorship") despite the same content is already covered in lead with a neutral tone ("purported itself as an "alternative of Twitter" and "champions free speech""). The user then drive-by flagged [269] the page with COI, POV and tone templates, without providing any explanation on article talk page, as required by the Template:COI. The user has not contributed anything to the article or talk page previously, and has not been active in recent 2 months. When I reverted his edit and provided my reasoning, the user threated me with 3RR report and said "take it to ArbCom if you have a problem" which I perceive as an act of intimidation, and refusal to discuss with other editors to reach consensus. [270]
The user then added Template:Uw-tdel1 and Template:Uw-tdel3 to my talk page. [271] Replying to my question, the user used "been here for over 9 years" hinting they have more authority or ownership to edit the page, and again said "Any further issues with my edits should be addressed to ArbCom", intimidating that I should not change or question their edits. The user has not replied to my further questions. User talk:Tsumikiria#November 2018
The user seems to have a history in drive-by flagging controversial articles they don't like, accusing other editors of COI and intimidating other editors to go to ArbCom from questioning their edits: [272] [273] Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive151#User:R3ap3R.inc reported by User:C.Fred (Result: 48h)
Tsumikiria (T/C) 02:58, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Except my history shows no evidence of ArbCom, no COI, a left-leaning POV bias when not cherry picked out of hundreds of old edits, and the accuser removed valid maintenance tags without making any changes. The article in question clearly doesn't meet POV standards, that simple, and an edit war with accuser hitting 3RR wouldn't go anywhere. Also, "drive by" is called being an RCP. 03:21, 3 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by R3ap3R (talk • contribs)
- Can you explain why you keep suggesting people should take stuff to WP:arbcom? Arbcom is generally the absolutely last resort when the community has been unable to deal with a problem. (There are exceptions like de-admining which only arbcom can deal with.) I see absolutely no reason why any behavioural issues that may exist with your edits will need to be taken to arbcom. They could be dealt with at ANI some other appropriate noticeboard like ANEW. Ideally of course, if there are any they should be dealt with by listening to other editors long before it gets to ANI. Nil Einne (talk) 12:10, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Except my history shows no evidence of ArbCom, no COI, a left-leaning POV bias when not cherry picked out of hundreds of old edits, and the accuser removed valid maintenance tags without making any changes. The article in question clearly doesn't meet POV standards, that simple, and an edit war with accuser hitting 3RR wouldn't go anywhere. Also, "drive by" is called being an RCP. 03:21, 3 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by R3ap3R (talk • contribs)
Disruptive editing by IP
42.107.200.43, 42.107.217.211, 42.111.248.139, 42.111.228.171, 42.111.228.154, 42.107.196.46, 42.107.201.249, 42.107.201.105, 42.111.18.6 - Dynamic IP editor is repeatedly performing disruptive editing on certain Malayalam film articles - Harikrishnans ([274], [275], [276], [277], [278], [279]), Mampazhakkalam ([280], [281], [282], [283], [284], [285]), Natturajavu ([286], [287]), Mr. Brahmachari ([288], [289], [290]), Poovinu Puthiya Poonthennal ([291], [292], [293]) and others (Fazil - [294], [295], MAS - [296], Hitler - [297], Kunchacko Boban - [298], [299], Oru Naal Varum - [300], Black - [301], T. A. Shahid - [302], Panchavarnathatha - [303]). Apparently, the editor is either trying to add his POV about box-office status of these films or rearrange cast and is insistent on that. Editor also seems to be a fanboy of actor Mammootty from the reordering of cast to give prominence to the actor. It has been days since this started. Requesting to please apply a range block as early as possible. Thank you. 2405:204:D28D:65D6:CC77:3DEF:52C6:CB5E (talk) 15:40, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
R.A Huston making personal attacks
User:R.A Huston was edit warring for which I opened a discussion at ANEW [304]. They have also repeatedly made personal attacks, insinuating and outright stating that anybody removing something about Liv Hewson being gay must be a homophobe.
The edit warring has stopped (only after being reported). But they have continued to make personal attacks after multiple warnings.
- A direct accusation: "stop being homophobic" [305]
- An insinuation: "I am not sure what certain users problems are with gay people, but it sure is weird." [306]
- Defending their personal attacks: "The fact that you both seem so adamant in keeping this info off their page is very strange and telling, which is my base for calling out homophobia." [307]
- Once again defending their personal attacks: "Ok, then what is the problem with putting their orientationon this article?Because I'm not seeing any rational reason, hence my "personal attack" (which wasn't at all)." [308]
- Another personal attack: "boy you are really full of yourself." [309]
The last one was after the second time I gave them a (user talk) warning for personal attacks and civility (they were also warned in edit summaries and on Talk:Liv Hewson). The first warning they removed with the edit summary "please dont" [310].
They didn't stop edit warring until after they were reported to ANEW. Perhaps they'll stop the personal attacks after I report them here. Either way, I think a block would be appropriate after all this disruption. (I'll note that they also haven't acknowledged any wrongdoing whatsoever - they stopped edit warring but have defended their actions [311]).
Thanks. --ChiveFungi (talk) 19:21, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
"This page is for discussion of urgent incidents and chronic, intractable behavioral problems"
— quoted from the top of this page, with the original bolding. I really don't think this disagreement qualifies. As for blocking the reported user, that won't happen. Bishonen talk 19:43, 4 November 2018 (UTC).
- @Bishonen: My apologies, but if not ANI then where do I raise the issue of a user repeatedly making personal attacks? WP:CONDUCTDISPUTE suggests that ANI is the correct venue: "If the issue is a conduct dispute (i.e., editor behavior) ... If discussion with the editor fails to resolve the issue, you may ask an administrator to evaluate the conduct of the user. You can ask for an administrator's attention at a noticeboard such as the administrators' noticeboard for incidents (ANI)." Thanks. --ChiveFungi (talk) 22:12, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Well, I would try to talk out the content isse on article talk in a friendly way, then if you really think his conduct is bad, on one of your own talkpages, or else take it to dispute resolution. AN/ANI should be a last resort, and accusations of disruptiveness, personal attacks, etc, should come last of all. It's a question of psychology: would you, yourself, feel inspired to continue discussion in mutual good faith, if the other party came out with things like "I won't engage with the arguments presented by somebody who's being uncivil, and you will probably get banned."[312]? (The fact is Huston probably won't be banned, and I don't think they have been that uncivil either.) It's better to defuse tensions than exacerbate them, and actually better to cite as few policies and guidelines as possible. Reasonable persuasion is simply more effective than lobbing policy shortcuts at the other person. Once you've tried the sweet reasonableness and it doesn't work (but you may be surprised to see how often it does) — then it might be time for ANI. In my opinion. I know you have read WP:CONDUCTDISPUTE and are quoting from it "If discussion with the editor fails to resolve the issue, you may ask an administrator to evaluate the conduct of the user." And now you have asked the administrators; it's just that I don't think you've given the "discussion with the editor" enough of a chance first. Nowhere near. But if you want me to evaluate the conduct of the user now, at this early point in your communications, I evaluate it as really not very heinous. Especially since they had some provokation. Bishonen talk 00:23, 5 November 2018 (UTC).
User: Julian mrz1999
Reported user has been indefinitely blocked per WP:NOTHERE. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 20:07, 7 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Julian mrz1999 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User has been consistently removing my comments on American Horror Story: Apocalypse talk page. Removal has happened approximately 3 times and only of my comments. I have restored but each time except for the most recent have they been removed.
Diffs of comment removal:
I have warned the editor three separate times using the multi-level template of Editing, correcting, or deleting others' talk page comments. Each time these have been removed by the editor from their talk page and replaced with a response, so one can safely assume the editor has seen these warnings. Most recently, the editor has responded with what could be interpreted as an ad hominem and/or personal attack (diff 6).
Diffs of warnings and editors responses:
Because of the editor's behaviour this may continue to happen in future, possibly to other editors other than myself.
Brocicle (talk) 10:12, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
This will actually not happen in the future at all. You see, i'm a college freshman who just wanted to correct a mistake on the AHS Apocalypse. This user here has been continually harassing me and bothering me for the past couple of weeks. He is beginning to annoy me and i just want him to leave me alone. I know i am never going to do this to other editors. Just please tell this editor in particular to please leave me the hell alone. Sheesh. Julian mrz1999 (talk) 5:17, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Please show me where I have allegedly been harassing you. Brocicle (talk) 10:22, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: This editor is clearly WP:NOTHERE. He has been nothing but deliberately disruptive, despite warnings, and look at his talkpage: [319]. Time for an indef. Softlavender (talk) 10:24, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- User blocked for not being here to work on the encyclopedia. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:24, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- You know, I wish people would be clearer in these kinds of comments. "This editor is clearly NOTHERE ... User blocked" ... Which editor is NOTHERE? Which user was blocked? Use their names, please. EEng 16:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Julian mrz1999 was blocked. RickinBaltimore (talk) 17:13, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- You know, I wish people would be clearer in these kinds of comments. "This editor is clearly NOTHERE ... User blocked" ... Which editor is NOTHERE? Which user was blocked? Use their names, please. EEng 16:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- User blocked for not being here to work on the encyclopedia. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:24, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @RickinBaltimore: Wait up, please. Unless I'm going gaga, there's been some biting going on here. Julian mrz1999, with his first edit, proposed a change to the plot section, with references, even. Brocicle objected to the length of the suggested addition, so Julian mrz1999 proposed something much shorter, modifying his own post - but also removed Brocicle's post objecting to the original proposal. Brocicle restored his objection; Julian pointed out he had changed his proposal. Brocicle makes a further comment objecting to Julian's removal of his first comment. The proposal was accepted and meanwhile Julian removes Brocicle's second comment. I haven't looked at when the templating started, and Julian obviously shouldn't have kept removing Brocicle's comments, but nobody welcomed him and Brocicle was being unduly truculent about what may well have started out as a misunderstanding about talk page etiquette. I'd have been a bit miffed myself had I been teh new editor, and his first few edits do demonstrate a desire to contribute to the encyclopedia—and responsiveness to an interruption. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:35, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- At the same time, they continued to remove comments on the talk page, after being told not to, and the responses were rather extreme to say the least. As with any block I give, I'm willing to unblock if they are willing to not do the edits that led to the block in the first place. I of course understand biting the new comers, but responses like on the talk page don't show me a willingness to work with others well. RickinBaltimore (talk) 17:47, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Yngvadottir: In the first template warning, the welcome page was linked twice along with suggestion of looking at it, along with links to talk page guidelines. While it may not have been a specific welcome template, the links were there. It was up to the editor whether or not to read it, which I can safely assume they did not. May be the block can be reduced, that's not my decision, but if that is their response to warnings which are intended to help editors avoid further mishap then I have to agree with RickinBaltimore with their comment regarding not wanting to work well with others. Brocicle (talk) 19:51, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Yingvy, I submit that not removing other people's posts on an article's talkpage is a pretty basic concept for any internet participation, especially when notified about it three different times. I also suggest you take a look at what sits atop the user's own talkpage:
I don't give a fuck
dude get a life leave me alone
Okay asshole i don't even fucking care. All i wanted was to fix someone's obvious mistake on here. Go find a hobby or something since you're so obsessed with being the wiki police. I mean seriously, do you even fucking take your eyes off this screen? You're such a weirdo.
Leave me the fuck alone you psycho
Does that sound like a good-faith editor who is here to build an encyclopedia? Softlavender (talk) 03:15, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Disruptive editing from User:Vestapol
No action needed beyond the page protection at this time. This will hopefully nudge things in the right direction. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 20:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We have had a problem this last week with a number of disruptive edits from User:Vestapol. He keeps on bringing back content that has been reverted by multiple editors. I have attempted to open dialog with him on the talk page, which he has completely ignored, as well as leaving three warnings on his talk page, which he has also completely ignored.
At this point, after being told by another editor to attempt to have a dialog about his edits, and him completely ignoring any request for dialog, I think we are going to have to resort to temporarily blocking them from editing. Defendingaa (talk) 02:12, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that the edits made to Alcoholics Anonymous by Vestapol have issues, and I also agree with the edit summaries left by other users when they reverted previous edits. I noticed some edits by Vestapol while patrolling recent changes, and I also felt that they injected commentary and opinionated thoughts as well as ideas and words that were absolutely not in compliance with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, and added information that appeared to me to be based off of original research. I'm going to apply temporary extended confirmed protection to the article so that the user will discuss the matter on the article's talk page as they've been repeatedly asked to do. This will hopefully resolve the issue as well as be helpful to the user and give them an opportunity to receive feedback and learn about some policies and guidelines they may not have been aware of. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:43, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you. Some of his contributions are positive and I hope this new user can become a productive editor. Defendingaa (talk) 02:49, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- You're welcome. I hope so too. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:25, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you. Some of his contributions are positive and I hope this new user can become a productive editor. Defendingaa (talk) 02:49, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Meat problems on Indian rail station articles
A number of IPs have been adding content which appears to be a complaint about the broad-gauge rail installation causing service problems. Example. Also addition of a number of twitter links. Example. Different IPs seem to be doing different tasks.
- Bahraich railway station (edit talk history links watch logs)
- Bahraich (edit talk history links watch logs)
- Bahraich district (edit talk history links watch logs)
- Kaiserganj (Lok Sabha constituency) (edit talk history links watch logs)
- Jarwal (edit talk history links watch logs)
Would someone please PP the pages? Thank you Jim1138 (talk) 12:17, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Of course, as soon as I leave this post, all activity stops... Jim1138 (talk) 12:29, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Doncram
Over the past few months Doncram (talk · contribs) has developed a one-sided vendetta against me, stemming from a dispute over the proper title of Little Falls and Dakota Depot. The discussion is mostly at Talk:Little Falls and Dakota Depot; there were precursor discussions at User talk:Mackensen#Stop with moves of railway stations.
During this discussion, Doncram challenged the maintenance deletion of Category:Northern Pacific Railway stations in Washington (state). This was a simple maintenance task, but he forced an unnecessary CfD: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 August 4#Category:Northern Pacific Railway stations in Washington (state), apparently out of personal spite. At the same time, he challenged the notability of an article I'd just created (Depew station (Lehigh Valley Railroad)), and left a strangely-worded message on the talk page. I left several comments; he never responded.
Anyway, that was months ago and I'd put it out of mind. He randomly turned up on my talk page earlier this month complaining about another move I'd made at the same time as all the others. Today, Doncram created Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railroad and linked it from Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad (which is why I noticed, I've had it watch-listed for years and headed up the discussion that led to its current location). I determined from reliable sources that the correct name for the new article is actually Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railway ("way" vs "road", it's a common issue), documented such on the talk page, and moved the article. I believe Doncram derived the name from the Route 66 Bridge over the Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railroad, which he also created. I made a few other changes:
- Recategorized the new article from Category:Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad to Category:Predecessors of the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad, as the company merged into the parent in 1948. This is a common practice and how this category scheme works.
- Corrected the name of the company in Route 66 Bridge over the Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railroad, and left an explanatory note that the names didn't match.
- Removed the NRHP banner from Talk:Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railway. I didn't see how it was relevant, and assumed Doncram copied it from Route 66 Bridge over the Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railroad and neglected to remove it. I've done that before.
I was surprised when Doncram reacted negatively to all these changes:
- He reverted the recategorization twice, first calling it "wrong" and then saying he was "removing stupidity". This last edit removed the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad categorization tree altogether.
- He reverted the explanatory note and the name change on Route 66 Bridge over the Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railroad, calling it "derogatory".
- He reinstated the NRHP banner on Talk:Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railway, while removing the WikiProject Trains banner. His last edit summary explaining this action was simply "disrespect". I do not know what he means by this.
In addition, after all this, he removed the WikiProject Trains project banner from Talk:Crescent Warehouse Historic District. I have never edited this article. Inasmuch as the article is about a property which includes former Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad buildings, the banner seems appropriate. I cannot conceive of a neutral justification for this edit; it feels like retaliation, though for what I don't know.
I reached out to Doncram on his talk page, but his response (which weirdly refers to "the other editor", as though I'm not the same person), showed no indication that he was willing to back down: User talk:Doncram#Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railway. This is clear WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior, it's harming the encyclopedia, and I'd like for it to stop. Mackensen (talk) 23:02, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Umm, I created an article on a highway bridge over a railway right-of-way, and another about the railway that was missing from Wikipedia. I put in WikiProject Trains on one or both, because I thought they'd probably be thrilled or whatever, which perhaps caught Mackenson's attention and then they started. I reverted Mackenson where I perceived they were being derogatory in mainspace (my interpretation, but informed by interactions with this editor). I don't think Mackenson should be deleting WikiProject NRHP from Talk pages. If they don't change NRHP banners I won't change Trains banners, if they agree. I don't think there is anything for ANI here, unless to warn Mackenson not to follow closely and contend on new articles. --Doncram (talk) 23:18, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- If they have a content disagreement, like they want to continue to assert that a 1902 new subsidiary of an 1866 railway is in fact a predecessor of the parent, they should discuss at Talk page of the article. --Doncram (talk) 23:20, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- This illustrates perfectly the mentality I'm describing:
I don't think Mackenson should be deleting WikiProject NRHP from Talk pages. If they don't change NRHP banners I won't change Trains banners, if they agree.
I've added NRHP banners in the past, where appropriate. Did a good deal of NRHP categorization on Commons as well. Note that Doncram ignored almost everything I wrote (including why I noticed the new article). Mackensen(talk) 23:25, 29 October 2018 (UTC)- This kind of quid pro quo proposal by Doncram, if it was serious, is not a replacement for editing based on Wikipedia:Consensus. It's concerning. I continue below. --Bsherr (talk) 00:32, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Also, Doncram retitled this thread to "Historic sites intersection with trains-related stuff". I changed it back, because this is a dispute centered entirely around his battleground behavior. As far as I know there is no broader problem with the intersection between these two subjects, which obviously have a good deal in common. Mackensen(talk) 23:27, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
- Adding this to the discussion since it's relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram
- Frankly the fact that there is another issue with Doncram in this area makes me wonder if the topic ban should have stayed in place. --Tarage (talk) 00:36, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think a complete topic ban would be the wrong approach. Doncram is one of the most productive editors in the NRHP Project, and the project would be worse if he could not continue to contribute. We need to find a way to curb his (occasional) BATTLEGROUND behavior, while at the same time encouraging his productive involvement. Perhaps a one revert limit? Blueboar (talk) 14:14, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yikes, yet another incident of Doncram being disruptive for absolutely no reason. The fact that he is a skilled content creator does not excuse his behavior whatsoever. His bizarre obsession with preserving certain names for no apparent reason - including NRHP names, which are widely known to be unofficial and often inaccurate - needs to be curtailed. I think two rules would suffice:
- 0RR for Mackensen's edits, given his demonstrated one-sided antipathy and history of attacking other editors
- No interfering with railroad-related maintenance and cleanup, including moving articles to names that match WP:USSTATION and other relevant guidelines, or perhaps a topic ban from railroad-related articles period. There are plenty of non-railroad-related NRHP articles out there.
- Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:57, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yikes, yet another incident of Doncram being disruptive for absolutely no reason. The fact that he is a skilled content creator does not excuse his behavior whatsoever. His bizarre obsession with preserving certain names for no apparent reason - including NRHP names, which are widely known to be unofficial and often inaccurate - needs to be curtailed. I think two rules would suffice:
- I think a complete topic ban would be the wrong approach. Doncram is one of the most productive editors in the NRHP Project, and the project would be worse if he could not continue to contribute. We need to find a way to curb his (occasional) BATTLEGROUND behavior, while at the same time encouraging his productive involvement. Perhaps a one revert limit? Blueboar (talk) 14:14, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
- Looking at the relevant edits, I see Mackensen's use of the talk pages to try to discuss, but no use by Doncram. @Doncram: why wouldn't you have discussed any of these disputes on the talk page, or joined the discussion Mackensen initiated? An editor with an intransigence about discussing on the talk page to arrive at consensus ought to expect the possibility of XRR-type sanctions.
- This cuts both ways, as I think Mackenson should Wikipedia:Assume good faith of Doncram's removal of WikiProject Trains project banner from Talk:Crescent Warehouse Historic District and revert and discuss on the talk page. Though I understand that this may have seemed futile after what had already occurred. --Bsherr (talk) 00:32, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Bsherr:, your point is well-taken, but it's difficult to assume good faith in this specific instance given the behavior at the time and past patterns. I didn't want to take further actions which would exacerbate the situation, which is why I brought the matter here for review by external parties. Mackensen (talk) 17:46, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- This illustrates perfectly the mentality I'm describing:
- Bsherr, I have in fact opened numerous Talk page discussions, including:
- User talk:Mackensen#disaster with respect to Soo Line Depot disambiguation (2 August)
- User talk:Mackensen#Stop with moves of railway stations (2 August), which involved
- Talk:Little Falls and Dakota Depot#article name/move (3 August), in which Mackensen does not answer but makes an odd statement which in my view miscounts and mischaracterizes previous discussion, as if it justifies dismissing what I had to say.
- Talk:Depew station (Lehigh Valley Railroad) (9 August) I see no justification for Mackensen complaining about that, or any other discussion I opened, in their opening this ANI.
- User talk:Mackensen#Stop with moves of railway stations (2) (27 September), which IMO was quite reasonable and clear, yet Mackensen does not reply at all, instead leaving stand a blithe dismissal by Cuchullain that "Mackensen’s moves have all been perfectly kosher according to consensus and the guidelines", with no engagement at all about the general principle that disputed moves should not be inflicted.
- Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (US stations)/Archive 4#Status as "guideline" disputed. By what authority is this labelled a "guideline"?, in which I feel I was harassed unfairly, with false accusation and threat by Pi.1415926535: "Domcram, drop the stick. You are acting in an incredibly hostile manner and making wildly baseless accusations. I'm about ready to seek a a topic ban from you and railroad stations because you're taking such a narrow-minded view of naming and creating chaos while you do it." Which they seek to accomplish, more or less, in this ANI.
- My experience from repeated attempts to engage about the issues, is that others mostly would just badger, verging on bullying. Upon re-reading the discussions, I think it is possible that later my memory was somewhat blurred and I did not distinguish between Mackensen's direct statements vs. the more incivil statements by others, in informing how I responded to Mackensen's later edits. However Mackensen condoned the more incivil statements, or at least did not disavow them. About the incivil statements, I mostly did not do anything much directly, i just took the hits, like probably an administrator should (i am not an admin; Mackensen and Cuchullain are). And then, when I respond a tad strongly to Mackensen's later edits but acceeded to their request to pause at the articles, I feel they should have just taken a minor hit from my reply to them at my Talk page, and responded to what I said, instead of running here unnecessarily. --Doncram (talk) 04:39, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Bsherr, I have in fact opened numerous Talk page discussions, including:
- Chiming in (much to the consternation of the apologists) that this is not the first time that Doncram's actions with respect to National Register of Historic Places related content has landed them in the hot seat to the point of Blocks, NRHP Community bans, and many other sanctions. I posit that Doncram's repeated caustic brushes with other editors does not outweight benefit that they provide, nor should they (WP:VESTED). I therefore vote a '0RR restriction with respect to Wikiproject Trains, and a 4IM warning against caustic editing with immediate block for infractions. Doncram has been reminded previously about disruptively changing other projects banners over the objections of editors who can judge context. Hasteur (talk) 22:16, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support Hasteur's proposal. The contrast between Mackensen's studied courtesy and Doncram's conduct is painful. I daresay a different editor would have brought this here far earlier, and made a bigger scene. In any case, the parallels with Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram are troubling. AGK ■ 22:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- I think Hasteur's memory is faulty about disagreement back in 2012 or so. I think they refer to my objecting, back then, to editors not at all associated with Articles For Creation changing the AFC editors' "Start" ratings on new articles I had created, based on AFC standards. My objecting was justified. There was also disagreement within WikiProject NRHP about how "Start" vs. "Stub" should best be defined, which led to a consensus against my preference, which I have abided with forever. Ever since in fact I always use "Stub" rating on my own articles and I simply avoid ratings. I do object to "outside" editors from changing a WikiProject's banners against its own members' wishes, then and now. It was a mistake, which I apologize for below, for me to temporarily try out a "tit-for-tat" tactic in removing Trains banner after their editor removed NRHP banner, but I lost that anyhow because a Trains editor continued after I stopped.
- About studied courtesy, I frankly think I very much provided that in my interactions with Mackensen, besides in one brief spat, in which I think the worst thing was that i used the words "wrong" and "stupid" to describe the incorrect categorizing of a railway, imposed into a new article I had just created. I am sorry if those words stung too much at the time, for an administrator to simply let that go by, but really a lot worse is said at ANI and Talk pages and in edit summaries every day by a whole lot of editors, including swear words and including phrases directed personally at other editors. --Doncram (talk) 04:39, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. Doncram and I have disagreed many times and he can be persistent, but he shouldn't be subject to zero revert restrictions on undiscussed page moves when the problem here is not one-sided. This is part of a larger clash between train people, who often see names in a cookie cutter fashion and NRHP people, who tend to look at the scope of history for a particular location, including the present name. Both have their places and there needs to be more discussion on talk pages, not just moving articles. Jonathunder (talk) 22:36, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- No, the problem is the exact inverse. Doncram is attempting to enforce the NRHP names no matter how incorrect or ridiculous they are, and he completely ignores their actual use as railroad stations when considering naming, while the railroad-related editors seem to better understand the scope of history. It's also clear that most of Doncram's move-reverts are not based on any actual evidence that the NRHP names qualify as the COMMONNAME (and common names are specifically listed in USSTATION), but based on unjustified antipathy to a small number of editors. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 02:09, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- I absolutely do not "attempt to enforce the NRHP names" as projected. See Talk:Little Falls and Dakota Depot#article name/move in which I provide balanced discussion about sources, and even lean to support a different-than-the-NRHP name which was supported by sources. --Doncram (talk) 04:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Jonathunder: I'm sad to see this issue reduced to
train people...and NRHP people
; it's reductionist and inaccurate. I would note that in this instance I was editing an article to add the context that the name of the bridge differed from the name of the company it was supposedly named after, and was reverted by Doncram. I agree with you thatthere needs to be more discussion on talk pages
, and I wish Doncram would use them, instead of attacking people in edit summaries (such as here, also linked in my original statement). It's difficult to work collaboratively when one particular editor is so (in my view) needlessly obstructive. There's his behavior over the Northern Pacific category, which you don't address, unless that's your idea of someone being "persistent". The other CfD participants took a less charitable view. If you think his behavior in these matters is acceptable, then we part ways there. If not, how do you propose we move forward? Best, Mackensen (talk) 02:41, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- No, the problem is the exact inverse. Doncram is attempting to enforce the NRHP names no matter how incorrect or ridiculous they are, and he completely ignores their actual use as railroad stations when considering naming, while the railroad-related editors seem to better understand the scope of history. It's also clear that most of Doncram's move-reverts are not based on any actual evidence that the NRHP names qualify as the COMMONNAME (and common names are specifically listed in USSTATION), but based on unjustified antipathy to a small number of editors. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 02:09, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Right, again, I am sorry i used strong statement "remove stupidity" in that edit summary. At the CFD, I did not even "vote", i just explained why I had concern about a Speedy Deletion request, and expressed that I hoped others more knowledgeable about category naming would consider the situation and do the right thing, content-wise. That is not reason to open an ANI proceeding. --Doncram (talk) 04:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Noting to @Jonathunder: that 0RR is not the death penalty that they are moaning about. 0RR only requires Doncram to secure a consensus through discussion prior to reverting a Trains related item. It does not restrict their NRHP activities. I would also note that remedies from Doncram's previous brush with arbitration have been suspended or revoked by motion (with one case recently having passed the sunset provision). Hasteur (talk) 00:37, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'm neither an "NRHP person" nor a "train person" but I've worked on articles relevant to both. I don't see much issue from the vast majority of people on either side, the current issue is certainly one-sided.--Cúchullaint/c 13:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- That would be perfectly fine by me if there is not in fact a cabal of obsessed editors. I myself have created and improved lots of trains-related articles, including adding Wikiproject Trains banner routinely, including by my (almost completely singlehandedly) taking on a reworking of List of railway roundhouses, with creating of a number of articles and with supporting discussion at wt:NRHP#Railway roundhouses.
- I don't know what "the current issue is certainly one-sided" is supposed to mean. The one proper discussion was a requested move where the name used in sources, rather than a made-up name, was supported. --Doncram (talk) 02:16, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'm neither an "NRHP person" nor a "train person" but I've worked on articles relevant to both. I don't see much issue from the vast majority of people on either side, the current issue is certainly one-sided.--Cúchullaint/c 13:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support Hasteur's remedy. I've only encountered Doncram recently but the battleground mentality Mackensen describes is fully evident. When he sticks to the talk page rather than edit warring, as here, the issues can be worked around, and his point of view can be discussed and accommodated. However, when it comes to edit warring and obstructing uncontroversial changes, something needs to be done. The 0RR restriction will keep the dispute on the talk pages where it belongs.--Cúchullain t/c 13:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. Let me explain a bit and apologize somewhat here.
- I cumulatively got a bit frustrated and perhaps angry over others' editing, including about unjustified dismissals of National Register documents as sources, and including collective behavior that seemed like unjustifiable attempts to intimidate me for my views, in several discussions with Mackensen and what seems to be a group of other train stations editors at Talk pages. The discussions establish a deep disagreement, between train station editors asserting that their preferred names for stations should be used, based on their having produced a guideline allowing them to do that, vs. myself asserting that sources must be used and defending the use of NRHP documents as sources. It is hard to be completely polite because the content disagreement is so fundamental (in my view it is about whether coverage should be encyclopedic or not encyclopedic at all), and the quality of listening/discussion was in my view horribly poor.
- Some time later, unrelatedly, I happened to develop some new articles, and encountered what seemed to me to be obtuse and inappropriate editing consistent with the bullying type behavior, and I edited fast and furiously briefly. Mackensen posted to my Talk page at 22:03, 29 October 2018, suggesting that I pause, and i immediately did, completely. I have not edited at any of those articles since that moment, even though other(s) have, since, including someone again removing the WikiProject NRHP banner, perhaps to goad me. I replied to Mackensen at my Talk page, still a bit irked, challenging them about the use of a category which seemed simply wrong to me, and I expected that there would be some discussion. I was surprised and irked to see Mackensen open this, which is not conducive to discussion of the actual content disagreements, and which seemed consistent with the bullying type behavior, instead. It would be extraordinarily convenient to train station editors to shut me down entirely, as my views directly challenge their own. I have expressed that I think the wp:USSTATION guideline should be cancelled or heavily modified, and that the train station editors should be enjoined against making any further moves, and I (and them too probably) expected to get around to opening a big RFC. I perceive that editors highly invested in the naming issue consider my stance to be a real threat on some fundamental level.
- About use of Talk pages, I highly endorse that, and do use Talk pages politely and extensively all the time, and I seek to understand others' views rather than dismiss them. In the brief episode that Mackensen posted about to my Talk page, I was impatient and did not. I apologize for that. I think I had in mind that a little bit of tit-for-tat was justified, about removal of Wikiproject banners, as a matter of responding on same low level as I perceived others' actions to be, which is silly. In general, I don't have any settled view about when and where tit-for-tat treatment is justified or works in Wikipedia processes (although there is considerable academic literature supporting tit-for-tat treatment as often being appropriate/effective). Probably going high is usually better, and I did not try to sort out a better way at the time, during the brief episode. I think now that I miss-perceived Mackensen's willingness to act reasonably, and I apologize for underestimating them.
- I'll comment more later. --Doncram (talk) 22:24, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
including collective behavior that seemed like unjustifiable attempts to intimidate me for my views, in several discussions with Mackensen and what seems to be a group of other train stations editors at Talk pages
Here abouts, that's called a consensus (especially in light of an invading external brigade). I could be wrong, but aren't almost all of these primarily Train entities first and NRHP entities secondary (i.e. If there was no train, the NRHP nomination wouldn't exist), therefore it would be prudent to yield to the primary specialty's naming convention when there's disagreement.I edited fast and furiously briefly
by that you mean WP:FAIT? The way to suggest a guideline be changed or modified is to challenge it at the talk page of the guideline, not to wage a "The guideline does not reflect the practice" campaign. I refer you to WP:NOTTHEM as again you've pointed out others perceived misbehavior as a shield for your own. Having been a significant editor it's expected for you to nearly always take the high road. Hasteur (talk) 00:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Not fair. There is apparently a local consensus at Mackensen's Talk page, and at wp:USSTATION, not surprisingly. I don't think there is any general consensus, i.e. I think that general consideration of the issue, based on fundamental principles of Wikipedia, will come down against the recent practice of editors merely invoking wp:USSTATION as justifying moves to names not supported in any sources. (Note the wording of USSTATION in fact allows for sources to be used, but practice has been different). The one relatively neutral forum where the topic was discussed properly is the move discussion, which went in favor of NRHP name rather than the name which i perceive to be simply made up. And it would be very unfair to paint me as knee-jerk in some way about NRHP names or the quality of NRHP documents (which often includes excellent sourcing and justification for names, but do vary in quality). I have been very clear about the limitations of them. On the other hand, there have been completely unjustifiable dismissals of NRHP documents, to the extent of asserting that because the NRHP document justifies a name for a place, that name must be ruled out. There has been extreme "I didn't hear that" and "I don't like it" type voting/assertions.
- It is unfair, here, to invoke wp:NOTTHEM "Do not complain about other people" automatically, because I speak of others here. There is no way to win in an ANI section named against one editor, it is automatically a vendetta against the one. And every critic is violating the dictum.
- That is unfair also to assert I was trying to subvert the guideline about naming of train stations or any other guideline. I created an article about a road bridge over a railway right-of-way, and I created the missing article about the railway. In the railway article I immediately, up front acknowledged existence of two names for the railway (one using "Railroad" coming from the NRHP document and one using "Railway" coming from a Texas handbook online source which I identified, for what is in fact was a new subsidiary, i believe a 100% owned subsidiary, of a "Railroad"). I objected to the insertion of negativity, in the mainspace article, about the NRHP, i.e. an unnecessary and deprecating statement saying the NRHP is wrong, when the "Railroad" term is in fact a common name that has been used. I also objected to another editor removing the NRHP wikiproject banner that I had put in. And I objected to the addition/modification of a category to assert that the new subsidiary was a parent of its parent.
- I did exactly what you ask for, raising a challenge at the Talk page of the wp:USSTATION guideline, in which I pointed out the guideline was drafted by Mackensen and promoted by Cuchullain in 2014. It has been archived at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (US stations)/Archive 4#Status as "guideline" disputed. By what authority is this labelled a "guideline"?. It was not at all resolved and should not have been archived, IMHO, but a bot did the archiving. I also commented at ongoing Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Irish stations) in opposition to extension of the guideline. I am not at all asserting that I and others have achieved a different consensus than the local one. It would/will require bigger discussion involving more editors to rollback the moves already done. However, I do think that the objection stated by me and another editor at User talk:Mackensen, plus the wp:RM which was concluded, should have put them on clear enough notice that they should not make further moves without use of wp:RM, which they proceeded to do anyhow. Mackensen has been an administrator forever, and should know to abide by the imperative to not make disputed moves of long-stable articles. --Doncram (talk) 02:16, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Your refusal to understand consensus is astounding. The discussion was archived because it was explained to you exactly why the guideline is agreed on, and you refused to acknowledge it because it doesn't agree with what you have decided names have to be. Your bizarre conspiracy theory that Mackensen and Cúchullain are somehow in violation of policy for taking normal administrative actions is precisely why 0RR and/or topic ban is necessary to stop your combative disruption. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:24, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- What??? A bot archived the discussion. I call for sources to be used, per policy, in naming of articles. I have no conspiracy theory; I don't believe that Mackensen or Cuchullain took any administrative actions at all. I do perceive that you, Pi.1415926535, wish to shut me up, where i disagree in proper discussions about use of names not supported by any sources vs. names supported by sources. --Doncram (talk) 05:11, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- If this were just about talk page disputes, even heated ones, we wouldn't be here. This is about Doncram's battleground mentality and habit of edit warring. There's no excuse for that, and their comments here don't suggest the problem will go away without remedy. Hasteur's suggestion wouldn't do anything to "shut down" Doncram's views, it would only make them to use the talk page to gain consensus before unilaterally reverting.--Cúchullaint/c 13:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I said already I am sorry that, between 21:09, 29 October 2018 (when Mackensen arrived at the new article I had created an hour earlier) and 22:01, 29 October 2018 (my last edit there) that I twice deleted the category added by Mackensen, which I believe is incorrect and misleading. Note they twice added the category, changing the article from its good correct state, without securing consenus, i.e. unilaterally reverting my work. Note they moved the article from "Railroad" to "Railway" name without any discussion, and I didn't complain, then or later, i.e. they unilaterally reverted my work. I am also sorry that Mackensen opened this ANI proceeding at 23:02, 29 October 2018, instead of noting that I had complied with their request to my Talk page, and not involved others unnecessarily. They stated "This gives me no pleasure" to open this ANI. Does it give pleasure to anyone else? I certainly experience this as hurtful.
- To put it politely, there does exist structural/built-in disagreement between two groups of editors. Repetition of the term "one-sided" in this ANI proceeding is, I think, intended to suggest that I am the only editor with the position that use of sources and regular encyclopedic practices matter, as opposed to a group of editors which has obtained privilege to do what it wants in article naming, including interpreting their guideline to mean what it does not say. "One-sidedness" is not borne out in the one proper wp:RM discussion which has happened and was closed by an uninvolved party, Talk:Little Falls and Dakota Depot#Requested move 3 August 2018, where multiple editors settle on a different name than the made-up name. There is not edit warring going on. It is a stretch to say my two removals of a category was edit warring; it was my strong view that the category was completely wrong. One is allowed to remove completely wrong stuff, like it is okay to remove vandalism, and in fact I rather think it would be appropriate now for me or anyone else to remove the category, as being challenged information, not supported by any source calling the new railway a "predecessor" of its parent. It sure would be convenient to one group of editors to be given control, though, so that the other editors cannot edit anything unless they obtain agreement at a Talk page.
- Back to the railway new article, neither Mackensen nor I discussed anything at its Talk page until 02:49, 3 November 2018, when Mackensen commented there, about when they re-added the disputed category, without securing any consensus. I replied there yesterday, and no one else has commented. It would be helpful perhaps if editors here could see their way to commenting in the actual content disagreement there, whether to use a category asserting a child is parent of its own parent, or not. It could go either way. --Doncram (talk) 16:28, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Doncram, you've edit warred repeatedly over this stuff. At Bristol station (Virginia), you repeatedly reverted edits by three different editors to restore an objectively poorly supported, ambiguous name. This goes back years, and it needs to stop. And yet you obfuscate the real issue by trying to make it a philosophical content dispute instead of a case of you edit warring and displaying battleground behavior.--Cúchullaint/c 17:14, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but that is bullshit. At Talk:Bristol station (Virginia)#Article name and lede text asserting name, I opened discussion and comment about the usage in sources, on 27 September 2018. This is textbook-correct usage of a Talk page. I did and do object to editors putting stuff into the mainspace text (setting aside the article naming) stuff which is not supported in any sources and which is contradicted by sources. And the quality of response is exemplified by another editor participating here, who blithely asserted "USSTATION is a widely accepted and used guideline, and your efforts to undermine it - which have been clearly based in bad faith and poor udnerstanding from the beginning - are not appreciated." That sucks, in terms of quality of discourse about content. Cuchullain, your argument there amounts merely to assertion that you prefer your made-up name, i.e. there are different names used in sources "so it seems like the best bet is to default to the WP:USSTATION version as a descriptive title." I don't agree; the different proper noun names used in sources are candidates for the best name for the article, and all the proper noun names can be stated as alternative names in the lede. At that article, I was outnumbered by a local consensus. It was asserted that my edits in the text were "vandalism", which is bullshit. I don't know exactly what to do now about the incorrect, unsupported text in the article. I expect that a proper wp:RM and/or a proper RFC, which attracts wider attention from editors not invested in the USSTATION's assertion of privilege, will go differently about the naming. This is a content disagreement. This is not a matter for ANI, unless as a case study about a group of editors pressing for advantage in a content disagreement.
- Actually I did try moving that article, which Cuchullain reverted. Actually perhaps Cuchullain did use administrative power in a content dispute, in order to do that. Also I corrected article content in this edit: restore lede statement of name of place, as used in sources. It is not acceptable to put factually disputed statements into mainspace, without support. Use Talk page. "Bristol station" is disputed. And that was reverted by this edit with edit summary "standard format per RfC. "Bristol Railroad Station" is not used outside NRHP documents, which are known not to use official names". This is another example of unjustified blithe dismissal of available documents. I dispute that NRHP documents are "known" to be bad. --Doncram (talk) 17:39, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Anyhow, that was back in September 27, and it was part of determining that there is a widespread/bigger problem, involving entrenched position/editors. So on that date I followed Hasteur's recommended approach of opening discussion at the USSTATION talk page, at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (US stations)/Archive 4#Status as "guideline" disputed. By what authority is this labelled a "guideline"?. There is not edit warring going on. This ANI, instead, is about less than one hour on October 29 during which I twice reverted addition of erroneous information to a new article I had created. For which I apologized, at least for the curtness of my dismissal using words "wrong" and "stupid". And the erroneous information was returned to the article, and is still there, to boot. Great. --Doncram (talk) 17:55, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- More excuse-making. You haven't once acknowledged the real problem and tried to correct it.--Cúchullain t/c 20:00, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Doncram, you've edit warred repeatedly over this stuff. At Bristol station (Virginia), you repeatedly reverted edits by three different editors to restore an objectively poorly supported, ambiguous name. This goes back years, and it needs to stop. And yet you obfuscate the real issue by trying to make it a philosophical content dispute instead of a case of you edit warring and displaying battleground behavior.--Cúchullaint/c 17:14, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- If this were just about talk page disputes, even heated ones, we wouldn't be here. This is about Doncram's battleground mentality and habit of edit warring. There's no excuse for that, and their comments here don't suggest the problem will go away without remedy. Hasteur's suggestion wouldn't do anything to "shut down" Doncram's views, it would only make them to use the talk page to gain consensus before unilaterally reverting.--Cúchullaint/c 13:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- What??? A bot archived the discussion. I call for sources to be used, per policy, in naming of articles. I have no conspiracy theory; I don't believe that Mackensen or Cuchullain took any administrative actions at all. I do perceive that you, Pi.1415926535, wish to shut me up, where i disagree in proper discussions about use of names not supported by any sources vs. names supported by sources. --Doncram (talk) 05:11, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Your refusal to understand consensus is astounding. The discussion was archived because it was explained to you exactly why the guideline is agreed on, and you refused to acknowledge it because it doesn't agree with what you have decided names have to be. Your bizarre conspiracy theory that Mackensen and Cúchullain are somehow in violation of policy for taking normal administrative actions is precisely why 0RR and/or topic ban is necessary to stop your combative disruption. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:24, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- By
erroneous information
I believe he means the correct, legal name of the Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railway. Doncram's responses at Talk:Route 66 Bridge over the Chicago, Rock Island and Gulf Railroad#Explanatory note continue to demonstrate battleground behavior even now and an unwillingness to acknowledge that reliable sources undermine his position. I'm particularly astounded by the idea that stray mentions in a Texas newspaper could establish a common name for a railroad. Mackensen(talk) 18:32, 6 November 2018 (UTC)- Nope, I didn't mean that. As I stated clearly at the Talk page of the railway article, I see there are two valid alternate names for the railway, and I point out that in my creation of the article I put in the Texas historic dictionary source which uses the "Railway" name vs. "Railroad" name, and I right away set up redirect from one name to the other. I granted that the "Railway" name might be more official, and I did not dispute or even complain about Mackensen's unilateral move of the article without discussion. At the Talk page of the highway bridge article, I note that I consider it wrong for disparaging comment about the NRHP as a source to be put into mainspace. It has been spewed in multiple discussions now that some editors dismiss the NRHP documents automatically as wrong about anything and everything, which itself is wrong when you don't provide any alternative source. Dismissing sources is useful when you want to impose a private official system of naming, set up by USSTATION, not supported by any official source, into article naming and what is written in the articles. It is inappropriate for mainspace to reflect that private agenda with disparaging comments about the National Register. I explain well enough at the Talk page of the highway bridge article, why not discuss there instead of at ANI? About the railway name, I'm frankly "astounded" by Mackensen's assertion that Texas newspapers' usage could never establish what is common usage for naming of a Texas railway. That is raising an extremely hypothetical content issue at ANI, about what Texas newspapers might say. The disputed information put into mainspace is the assertion, by use of category, that the 1902 Texas subsidiary created by the 1866-founded national railway, is the "predecessor" of its own parent company. I explain my view at the Talk page of the railway article, why not discuss it there instead of at ANI?
- I am cumulatively discouraged by repeated misunderstandings and/or willful misrepresentations of what I have said and done. --Doncram (talk) 18:56, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
User continually recreating deleted pages
Fwaig This user continually recreates pages which were deleted through AfD. I have told them not to before here. They have recreated Street Profits, Angelo Dawkins and Montez Ford so many times they were all WP:SALTed. Now to get around that they have created Street Profits (tag team), Angelo Dawkins (wrestler), and Montez Ford (wrestler). I request a block of this user to stop this disruptive editing, and under WP:GS/PW. Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 17:09, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Galatz, you were supposed to notify Fwaig of this conversation. But you didn't so I placed a notice on their user talk pages for you. 209.152.44.201 (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- You are correct, I pinged them so I didnt, but I probably should have. They already saw it since they commented on my talk page about it. - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 19:25, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Occassionally, IPs are helpfull. ;-) 209.152.44.201 (talk) 20:39, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- You are correct, I pinged them so I didnt, but I probably should have. They already saw it since they commented on my talk page about it. - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 19:25, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Report of Intractable Behaviour over Article Content
I am writing to detail the hostile and intractable actions of @Ryanoo: against me on my user "talk" page, theirs and the talk page of Wikipedia's English "North Africa" article.
After editing the article, I did my best to include my reasons regarding to why I thought it was appropriate and added what Wikipedia defines as verifiable sources to support my doing so. The introduction to the page was a quote from an academic journal on what formed the Sahara and geographically related Sahel, who contributed in suggesting its boundaries (Arab geographers, European naturalist explorers) and how it all came together. After consistently reverting my edits with no verifiable sourcing to justify them doing so (they cited a governmental website of the United States, an online dictionary) they visited my page to add a sockpuppet warning accusing me of being a banned user "Middayexpress" and 3 block warnings with no proof or justification simply because we had differences on the topic of North Africa. I did try to at least explain why their sources were not verifiable besides Wiki's reasoning, explaining that all the organizations Ryanoo listed were interested in geopolitical lines and not the physical or historical geography of North Africa. I also asked that they provide verifiable ones to provide them a chance but every source did not meet Wiki's standards. A user @Roxy the dog: attempted to arbitrate between us on the article's talk page and both our user pages but they continued to insult, taunt me with blocking and accusations of vandalism. I also emailed Wikipedia on this topic and an admin Ron Jones was kind enough to provide suggested steps to take in a situation like this. I read over them and noticed that I had done most of the steps already as I genuinely wanted to engage in good faith discussion. So, I am escalating the situation to this admin board so someone can step in and do whatever they think is appropriate in this situation.
As I am new to Wikipedia, I'm unsure if I'm able to ask that a user be blocked from engaging with me or reverting my changes to the article with unverifiable sources but it is my opinion that this would solve the issue. I feel uncomfortable personally reverting the page back to my own changes as I do not want to violate the 3 revet policy. Below I will list diffs to the best of my coding ability for the use of the administrators here. I also would like to apologize in advance for any editing errors, like I said, I'm new here!
Thank you, Itaren (talk) 06:30, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Diffs:
1: these were my additions to the article with all my verifiable citations 1a: Ryanoo's edit comment for this is: "Removed totally wrong and misleading information, trimmed the article and returned to the encyclopedic text" 1b:Here I reverted the text back to my edits with the following comment: Reverted page back to my edits that were supported by verifiable secondary sources, all either academic or historical. Edits made to this page should include citations. The version this article was reverted to had little no sourcing. User Ryanoo should provide sources in their explaination of *why* they found this academic information to be "false" and "misleading." Otherwise the article should stay as is. Kept "Arab Spring" addition (it was cited) 1c:Ryanoo then engaged in an edit war without providing sources as can be seen here. Ryanoo also left this corresponding comment: Reverted 2 edits by Itaren: Removed misleading and poorly sourced information and returned to the enclyopedic text. North Africa is a geographical region located in the Northernmost of the African continent, it is not a political or ecenomic organization which needs to be defined. The definition is clear as the name itself, It is simply North Africa. Chad, Niger, ...etc aren't North African countries and they aren't considered by anyone as so . (TW) * this in fact contradicts the article version they formerly reverted back to because the article claimed there was no single definition of "North Africa" and leads one to believe they did not check any of my citations, many of which are viewable online. These would have contextualized my reasoning for the selected map, by which, I didn't list every state highlighted on the map in the 'sovereign states / disputed territory section as North African.
2: Here's one of the things left on my user page almost immediately after one of their reverts, accusation of vandalism, block warning re: editing privileges 2a: Sock puppet accusation 2b: First taunt, block threat 2c: Second block threat, third taunting template on my page 2d: third block threat, another taunting template on my page 2e: @Roxy the dog: attempts to intervene
3: Ryanoo is warned by Roxy and myself but does not change their behaviour
4: Proof I tried to discuss the content dispute on the article at its talk page, the next diff will show how the conversation went 4a: uncivil discussion
5: I warn them on their user page not to be so hostile and tell them not to disturb my page further 5a: User Roxy intervenes again, they do not express any willingness to change, I notify them that I'm bringing their actions to the attention of Wikipedia Administration 5b:Ryanoo suspiciously removes my notice from their user talk page
- There is some discussion of this at User talk:Ryanoo including Ryanoo receiving an NPA warning. Ryanoo in turn claims Itaren is a sock of Middayexpress, a banned user who Ryanoo has been battling for a while. I haven't looked into it and don't have a view about it. Itaren's diff templates aren't working properly but Ryanoo's big revert with the hostile edit summary is here. Ryanoo hasn't yet opened an SPI but supposedly intends to do so. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 07:00, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- @173.228.123.166: Thanks for your input. I see someone was kind enough to fix the diffs so they should be working now. Also, you may be able to see what they've done to my user page here and here. As a side note, would I be justified in reverting the page back to my changes now (despite the 3 revert rule, only got to that number because of Ryanoo's disruptions and hostility) or would it be best to wait and see how the admins address the incident? Thanks again. Itaren (talk) 09:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I think you and Ryanoo should both not revert or edit the page for now, until your SPI resolves one way or the other, and Ryanoo's other post is examined. He is editing more calmly now on his talk page, which is always a good thing. I haven't looked at the surrounding issues enough to weigh in on them. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 07:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- @173.228.123.166: Thanks for your input. I see someone was kind enough to fix the diffs so they should be working now. Also, you may be able to see what they've done to my user page here and here. As a side note, would I be justified in reverting the page back to my changes now (despite the 3 revert rule, only got to that number because of Ryanoo's disruptions and hostility) or would it be best to wait and see how the admins address the incident? Thanks again. Itaren (talk) 09:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'm usually the guy that gets pinged when middayexpress socks are suspected to editing; while i can not confirm anything here I will say that I find no puritans in this disagreement. This came here way too quickly, and I see no attempts be either editor to assume good faith. I say let it ride and we will see where the chips fall down the line. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- Correction: I now find one puritan in this disagreement. A Massachusetts puritan, apparently. And one who takes a strong, firm stand on these matters. I also see what appears to be some sort of rule book being carried firmly into this disagreement, which will hopefully help us resolve this matter quickly :) TomStar81 (Talk) 08:49, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'm usually the guy that gets pinged when middayexpress socks are suspected to editing; while i can not confirm anything here I will say that I find no puritans in this disagreement. This came here way too quickly, and I see no attempts be either editor to assume good faith. I say let it ride and we will see where the chips fall down the line. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- Hi @TomStar81: and thank you for weighing in. The reason why it may appear that I didn’t assume good faith is because the user had put alarming tags on my user page which you can see under “November 2018” for doing something as harmless as adding sources and clarification on an article that was lacking it. I now understand that the correct term is hounding. They opened an SPI on me using my old edits on pages they never even contributed to in justification. I became blue in the face repeating why I contributed as I did in the context of geography (physical and historical geography to be precise) and that enraged Ryanoo ... to the extent they assumed I was some former nemisis of theirs sockpuppeting from beyond a ban. The whole situation would be amusing if it weren’t so disruptive. When I tried to engage the user on the article talk page, they didn’t criticize my verifiable sources and counter the content they presented with work of the same calibre. Instead, I was met with rants. In the request for investigation they make against Arboleh below, I’m characterized as an Afrocentrist trying to hijack the history of his Egyptian ancestors for some reason? I haven’t the remotest interest in ancient Egypt on Wiki. I’m pretty confused about these accusations.
Itaren (talk) 10:54, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- In a best case scenario you've encountered a wiki-ass, we've had a few and while no one like dealing with them sometimes its just a matter of denying recognition and waiting for these tarzans to find some other vine to swing on. In a worst case scenario you've encountered one the editors (or their affiliates) listed at WP:LTA, in which case this could take an ominous turn, but that's not typically the case. In this case it may be in your best interest to simply strike the colors and sail away, all the more so since doing so will let us better gauge whose having the real issues with the edits here. TomStar81 (Talk) 11:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Ishmailer edit-warring across several articles out of spite
User blocked for a week. Softlavender (talk) 12:17, 8 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Ishmailer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Ishmailer has spent most of his short wiki career edit-warring on Liberland, for which he was blocked 24 hours a month ago. When the block expired he went right back to edit-warring, including edit-warring while logged out. When Dlohcierekim full protected the article to stop the edit war just now, Ishmailer went on a spiteful rampage edit-warring on the redirect to the article, and on the last article I had touched (apparently because I had made the last revert on Liberland before it was full protected). Could someone please put an end to this disruption? It is becoming more and more apparent that the editor is here for disruption rather than to collaboratively build an encyclopedia. Softlavender (talk) 12:11, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- When Softlavender and his ignoramus acolyte Thomas.W quit their involvement on Liberland, a subject on which they collectively know zilch, Wikipedia will once more become a positive constructive place. Elsewhere I have self-reverted. --Ishmailer (talk) 12:13, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- I've blocked for a week due to the personal attack. 331dot (talk) 12:15, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Good block, I was still filling out the paperwork for AN/I. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 12:16, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- I've blocked for a week due to the personal attack. 331dot (talk) 12:15, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Need more eyes at Rent regulation – the topic involving a big money political battle
The article is fully protected. The page's talk page is that-a-way. ;-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 20:06, 7 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The silly season of political fights is upon us, and the article about rent regulation is under fire. California is voting to determine whether local municipalities can enact their own flavor of rent control laws, or whether the whole state must follow the same guideline. A ton of real estate money has been spent to fight something called Proposition 10 which aims to return local control to cities and counties.
- "Big money pours into California’s rent-control initiative"
- "Big money already entering California rent control campaign"
Editor Avatar317 has expanded several articles to bring in text about the housing shortage in California, including California housing shortage, Plan Bay Area, San Francisco tech bus protests, San Francisco Bay Area Renters' Federation, YIMBY, Homelessness in the San Francisco Bay Area and rent regulation. All of the edits are non-neutral, bringing sources and text that promote the anti-regulation position of real estate developers. At no time does Avatar317 describe neutrally the reasons that municipalities and/or voters have historically chosen to limit rents, nor why some city planners have advocated rent control, or why it might be beneficial for a city to limit growth. It appears to me that Avatar317 is here to push a political agenda which is pro-development and anti-regulation. Binksternet (talk) 09:17, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- That's a rather biased description, don't you think? You are assuming that rent control is beneficial. Rent_regulation#Economists'_views shows several high-quality sources that don't agree with you. And the claim that municipalities and/or voters have historically chosen to limit rents is demonstrably untrue. Historically rent control measures have gone both ways - some places adopting them, some rejecting or repealing them. The latest polls in California show that 41 percent of Californians support the rent control ballot measure, 38 percent oppose it, and 21 percent remain undecided, so it could go either way. And the fact that corporations spend big money opposing laws that will hurt them financially tells us nothing about whether the laws are good or bad; they oppose what hurts them either way.
- Of course none of the above implies that either Avatar317 or Binksternet are violating NPOV in this area. For ANI to determine that, someone will have to post actual evidence in the form of diffs. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:39, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- This really seems like a simple content dispute. This editor might be pushing an anti-regulation point of view, but that POV is supported by the vast majority of economists [320] and in California by the independent Legislative Analyst's Office [321]. Pushing a particular point of view is fine when expanding that point of view's presentation in the article is supported by its weight as presented in reliable sources.
- Additionally, article history shows that this editor has never once edited Plan Bay Area, and last edited San Francisco tech bus protests in June, and Homelessness in the San Francisco Bay Area and San Francisco Bay Area Renters' Federation in July. Your accusations of POV-pushing in those articles either impossible (how can an editor POV-push in an article they've never edited?) or clearly stale. Red Rock Canyon (talk) 14:47, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah the Plan Bay Area accusation is really weird. Are you thinking of another editor or another article? The only thing they seem to have done at all related is create the redirect Plan Bay Area 2040 [322] but they obviously aren't the one who added the 2040 mention in the article itself [323]. (And in any case, the official websites seem to use the 2040 name so a redirect seems fair.) I do hope you didn't just find a bunch of articles in their edit history and not actually at what they actually did to those articles. Nil Einne (talk) 17:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Disruptive IP 226/228/79
IP range globally blocked and disruption appears to have died down. Please re-report if disruption resumes. Now, let's all imagine ourselves on EEng's lovely beach. Jip Orlando (talk) 15:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An Australian IP is making disruptive edits on India-genetics related articles:
According to Reich et al. (2009), "the indigenous Andaman Islanders are unique in being ASI-related groups without ANI ancestry."
- into
According to Reich et al. (2009), “the indigenous Andaman Islanders are unique in being without any ANI or ASI ancestry."
Warnings have been given at various talkpages diff diff diff, and @Vanamonde93, Doug Weller, and Bishonen: have been pinged at Talk:Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia#Ping. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 14:54, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- I have made this edit, yes. Because the statement is not correct. Reich say that the andamanese are closest to other negrito people. He says that ASI are not related to any people outside of India. The andamanese have got some gene flow from ASI and that the onge are relative closer to ASI than other andamanese. He did not say that they are closely related. I am not here to make disruptive edits. Here is the source:
"Gene study reveals Indian origins". www.abc.net.au. 2009-09-24. Retrieved 2018-11-07.
213.162.68.226 (talk) 15:02, 7 November 2018 (UTC)"Different Indian groups have inherited 40% to 80% of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians, who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India," says Harvard Medical School geneticist David Reich.
{{cite web}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter:dead-url=
(help)- 213.162.68.226 (talk · contribs) has been CU blocked for 30 days by another Admin. Note that I had to revert an edit by 212.95.7.228 for misrepresenting the source. Might have been incompetence of course. Doug Weller talk 17:27, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- And a steward has blocked a range globally, I think this is over. I've reverted something at Ainu. I guess there might be other IPs (now blocked) who have edited. Doug Weller talk 19:10, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
the indigenous Andaman Islanders are unique in being without any ANI
– Sounds like paradise. EEng 02:38, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Doug Weller: thanks! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:46, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Block evasion
(non-admin closure) Referred to SPI. Tornado chaser (talk) 15:49, 8 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hey guys, I'm pretty sure Vaishak1234 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is actually Vaishakparamb (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who is a sock of Suriyaaa (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) evading their indef block, due to the similarity in usernames and the return to editing pages that Vaishakparamb had edited (ex: Sree Narayana College of Management Studies (edit talk history links watch logs), Varsha Bollamma (edit talk history links watch logs), Kanhangad (edit talk history links watch logs), etc). Not too familiar with dealing with block evasion/socks, so if this is better suited for SPI, feel free to trout me and I'll post over there. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 15:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
This does belong at SPI, but I could see why you would think to report it here, I've made the same mistake in the past. Tornado chaser (talk) 15:49, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
IP address and new account
The proper place to report suspected abuse of multiple accounts, including abuse of editing while logged out, is Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations. A case was filed related to this report and has been closed with no action. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:04, 9 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
An Omani IP 5.37.187.78 address started editing the Durand Line article was reverted by a user and by me again. Then a newly registered account reverted me back, and started adding the exact same content as the IP. The account is from Oman as well and makes edits from mobile same as the IP. This is in all probability the same person as the IP. Could be that the IP created a new account just now or that the IP and account are being socked. Please see what should be done here (the account should definitely be notified to not abusively use IP addresses). Gotitbro (talk) 13:33, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Gotitbro: Please see WP:SPI. It sounds like a more appropriate venue. SemiHypercube ✎ 13:37, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Logs show that the account was created after the IP's last edit, so this is in all likelyhood the IP user deciding to register an account. There is nothing wrong with doing that. I have no opinion about the edits themselves. Reyk YO! 13:39, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- 5.37.187.78 and Special:Contributions/Romanov67 clearly are not parallel. So as Reyk said, this is not an issue needing admin intervention. Gotitbro please start a thread and invite the new user to a discussion on talk page. If there are no other concern about this editor, then I suggest closing this thread. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:42, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- If the IP and the account are the same person (which seems likely) they stopped editing logged out at 21:16 yesterday and created an account at 10:09 today. That's not sockpuppetry, that's just creating an account. I don't see anything else here that would warrant admin attention - there's a content dispute and it's being discussed on the article's talk page. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:46, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I see, I was not sure that is why I came here. I filed an SPI after the above advice, what should I do now? Gotitbro (talk) 13:50, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Ivanvector: Please close this ANI report. I agree with your statement on the SPI. Gotitbro (talk) 14:07, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Chris Troutman
Article was protected (and then subsequently sent to AFD), Chris is politely reminded to be nice to everyone. NAC –Davey2010Talk 21:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC) Please tell me you trouted him. EEng |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I would like to file a complaint about the administrator named Chris Troutman. I have tried to make a minor change to the page for Joanne Nosuchinsky. She now works on a radio show, with a paid audience, and I wanted to mention that. Mr. Troutman has called me a vandal and a fanboy, and that I was trying to promote a podcast. None of this is true. I apologized if I made any mistake, and I posted a URL for the reference to her paid site.
This was my first time doing this, and I went in with enthusiasm. Mr. Troutman squashed that with his very rude comments, and his misinterpretation of the show and what I was trying to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaveC1967 (talk • contribs) 14:49, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I have full-protected the article for 12 hours, as you were both edit-warring on it without meaningful discussion. However, I think Chris troutman is more at fault as a) as an experienced editor (he's not an admin), he is supposed to know better and b) he's been warned in the past about incivility. (And, for the record, this is a good example of how you can be incivil without using the word "fuck"). So Chris, dial it back a bit, please. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 14:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I think Ritchie333 is wrong and I've told him so. If the consensus thinks I've been uncivil then they'll take action against me. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:12, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I have no desire to "take action" here, but IMHO Ritchie is right, that vitriol was unnecessary. -Floquenbeam (talk) 16:23, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Academic [[324]], not really sure what all the drama was about.Slatersteven (talk) 16:26, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Per the above, Troutman should be, erm, WP:TROUTed for being dismissive and rude towards the above user and for edit warring instead of discussing. I don't know that we need blocks yet, but an ounce of honey is worth a pound of vinegar, and educating new users involves more than simply telling them to "go back to Facebook". --Jayron32 17:11, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Disruptive IP
- 82.13.82.129 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
Hi, could any admin block this IP? Single-purpose mission, adding unsubstantiated categories to articles, never bothers to respond to warnings on his talk page.[325] Every time he gets reverted, he just reinstates his edits. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:06, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I went through some of their recent edits and many do appear to be legit, although a few perhaps could use sources, and there were some edits that were rightfully reverted. I do have a question about this one: One of the categories the IP added seemd correct. Was Quli Qutb Mulk not actually an Indian of Iranian descent? The other categories and the article itself suggest that Quli Qutb Mulk is considered Indian and he is from Iran so this edit seems to be in good faith, at the very least. Runawayangel (talk) 03:50, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Drmies: Please allow me:
- IP in question added Category:Bahraini people of Iranian descent to Nabeel Rajab.[326] Unsourced, no mention of supposed Iranian origin/descent in the article.
- IP in question added place of death to Qutb al-Din Aibak.[327] Unsourced, no mention of supposed place of death in the article.
- IP in question added Category:Pakistani people of Iranian descent and Category:Pakistani Shia Muslims to Fateh Ali Khan (Qawwali singer).[328] Unsourced, no mention of supposed Iranian origin/descent or Shia adherence in the article. He reinstated his edit on no less than two occassions.[329]
- IP in question added Category:Pakistani people of Arab descent to Category:Abbasi family.[330] Unsourced, no mention of supposed Arab origin/descent in any of the articles within the category.
- IP in question added Category:Pakistani people of Arab descent to Category:Qureshi family.[331] Unsourced, no mention of supposed Arab origin/descent in any of the articles within the category.
- IP in question added Category:Turkic dynasties to Shah Mir dynasty.[332] Sources in the article clearly show that the origin of the dynasty is uncertain.
- IP in question added Category:Indian people of Iranian descent to Shah Jalal.[333] Unsourced, no mention of supposed Iranian origin/descent in the article.
- IP in question added Category:Pakistani Shia Muslims to Badar Miandad.[334] Unsourced, no mention of supposed adherence in the article. Reinstated the same edit a few days later.[335]
- @Drmies: Please allow me:
- ..And so forth.
- Combine that (^^^^) with the fact that he 1) never bothers to respond to warnings[336] 2) never writes edit summaries 3) is willing to edit-war over his edits,[337]-[338] and you've got yourself a disruptive IP methinks. He has made a few good edits here and there, but his overal editorial pattern is very much WP:TENDENTIOUS I'm afraid (and time consuming as others have to clean up his mess). - LouisAragon (talk) 14:06, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Mino348 has issues with copyright
Mino348 (talk · contribs) has continued to upload copyrighted images without proper licensing information since I made a report here about the behavior and it was archived. They show no signs of being aware that their actions are a problem, despite a proliferation of bot messages on their talk page. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 13:25, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- Mino348 has made precisely zero edits to the User talk or article Talk namespaces; clearly, the many concerns raised do not seem to have been addressed. I am inclined to block Mino348 until they acknowledge the issue and explain what they are going to do differently, any objections? Fish+Karate 14:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- And Ritchie333 has just indefinitely blocked them at the same time I was writing the above, so problem solved. Fish+Karate 14:27, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- Although a number of uploads have been kept, this has been entirely down to other editors adding appropriate fair-use rationales. This is very much a "we need to talk" block. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:28, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- And Ritchie333 has just indefinitely blocked them at the same time I was writing the above, so problem solved. Fish+Karate 14:27, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
User:JJMC89
Littlemonday failed to appropriately attempt dispute resolution, before bringing a complaint before this noticeboard. There being no discernable violation of policy on JJMC89's part, and most importantly no chronic, intractable behavioral problems(see page header), we can all go about our business. Littlemonday is gently warned that premature escalation of misunderstandings to this noticeboard does not reflect well upon their ability to collaborate. (non-admin closure) TheDragonFire (talk) 06:02, 10 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:JJMC89 is making a lot of unhelpful edits and is annoying a lot of individuals. As petty as this might seem, they are undoing a lot of good work by a lot of individuals. Littlemonday (talk) 13:23, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Can you give me some diffs? Hhkohh (talk) 13:25, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- This appears to purely be around the fact that JJMC89's bot (correctly as far as I can see) removed a non-free image from the page Deputy Leader of the Labour Party (UK) that it didn't have a rationale to be used on, and the OP doesn't understand why. I'll grant the explanation on JMMC89's page wasn't hugely clear. Canterbury Tail talk 15:18, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- WP:NONFREE enforcement strikes again. It's a hard concept for new and infrequent users to grasp, a hard concept for experienced users to explain. While I don't know JJMC89's work in particular, I've noticed that in general people who tend to enforce this are often not the most patient in explaining things. Which is unfortunate. That may or may not be a problem here. Surely someone has created a semi-decent, Goldilocks-like (not too confusing, not too oversimplified, but just right) explanation we can point to? WP:NONFREE isn't easy to parse. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:26, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I guessing most people focused on this area burned out their ability to explain the issues after the first few hundred people ignoring them or blaming them for something that isn't their fault. Just a guess, but it can wear on you. zchrykng (talk) 15:37, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- My explanation works like this: "Unless you took the picture on your own camera, and thus own the copyright yourself, don't try to upload it. It is technically possible to do so, but you'll screw it up and someone will delete it and you'll get mad and it'll be a bad time for all. So only upload pictures you yourself have taken, on your own free time, using your own camera." If anyone wants additional instructions, I direct them to the policy page and say "If you can figure this out on your own, and want to try, feel free to, but be aware that someone will probably try to delete your picture without warning and it won't be clear why that happened." That usually works for me as an explanation. --Jayron32 15:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, yes User:JJMC89's response was unhelpful and uninsiteful. If you look at their edits/the edit's of their bot you'll see this is effecting a lot of people. The issue I had was regarding the photo of Jim Griffiths, which is already on Wikipedia, I added it to a second article and it was removed. I fail to see any logical argument (or rule on this site) that prevents that. There are plenty of photos which appear on numourous articles, and the inclusion of that photo on the second page added something to the article. It's also not helpful (or polite) when someone is so dismissive of something you are trying to help with.Littlemonday (talk) 16:54, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Ah, since you've given us a specific example, I can help you understand the problem. The image in the infobox at Jim Griffiths is currently a copyright photograph. Normally, we do not accept copyrighted photographs, unless the copyright own releases the image in a way that is compatible with Wikipedia's licensing. HOWEVER (and this is where people get all turned around), in a LIMITED number of situations, we can republish a copyrighted work under the guise of fair use, which among other things under U.S. copyright law, allows us to do so only when no other alternative exists, and even then we may only use it in highly restricted ways. By a combination of Wikipedia policy, Foundation-level policy, and U.S. law itself, that usually means that we can only use a single copy of such a picture in a single article, where the picture itself is illustrating the subject of the article. There are probably a few other exceptions, but in this case, the picture at Jim Griffiths can only be used to illustrate that one article. You can read more about these restrictions at WP:NFCC. --Jayron32 17:37, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)@Littlemonday: JJMC89 basically gave a shortened version of the same response here that Jayron32 posted directly above. Not every file you see on Wikipedia is licensed the same way, and how a file is licensed largely determines which Wikipedia policies it's subject to and, therefore, essentially how it may be used. All files are subject to Wikipedia:Image use policy, but those uploaded and licensed as non-free content are further subject to Wikipedia's non-free content use policy (or NFCC for short). The NFCC is similar to the concept of fair use, but it has been intentionally made to be much more restrictive for Wikipedia's purposes. There are ten non-free content use criteria which need to be satisfied each time a non-free file is used. You added the Griffiths image to an article, but didn't provide the separate specific non-free use rationale required by criterion 10c for that particular use to the file's page; so, it was flagged as a violation and subsequently removed by a bot and this edit sum was left. The bot did what it was supposed to do according to WP:NFCCE, and the edit sum contained links to relevant pages where more information could be found or clarification could be requested. You did ask for clarification at User talk:JJMC89#Jim Griffiths photo, where more links to relevant pages were provided for reference, but apparently still don't understand why the file was removed. Relevant policy does allow a non-free image of a deceased person to be uploaded per item 10 of WP:NFCI pretty much only when the image in question is being used for primary identification purposes at the top of or in the main infobox of a stand-alone article about the individual in question; it may be possible to use such a file in other articles, but these additional uses tend to be much harder to justify and require a pretty strong contextual connection between image and relevant sourced content about the image itself in almost all cases. A list article is "Deputy Leader of the Labour Party (UK)" is basically a list of names with some short biographical information about each entry. The use of non-free images in such articles has long been considered to be something not acceptable per WP:NFLISTS. The other images used in the article are all "free images" (public domain or otherwise freely licensed), so they are not subject to the policy on non-free content use. This might partially explain why you see so many similar list articles using pictures, but which also have entries without images. You may have also come across some cases where a non-free image is being used in multiple articles, but that doesn't mean it should be being used in multiple articles or that the circumstances of each use are the same what you're discussing here. My suggestion to you for future reference is to first determine how a file is licensed before adding it to any articles; you can do this by clicking on the image itself. If it's an image from Commons or otherwise a "free image", then you can probably add it to any page without any problems; on the other hand, if it's licensed as non-free, then you are going to only be able to add it to articles if the way you want to use it satisfies relevant policy. If you're not sure about this, you can always ask for help at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions or Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:08, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
My suggestion to you for future reference is to first determine how a file is licensed before adding it to any articles
– That's super-practical advice that editors won't have any trouble remembering to follow, even though not one in 100 times would that find a problem, so that the exercise is almost always a waste of time. An even more practical suggestion might be for the small fraction of nonfree files to carry NONFREE (or maybe FAIR_USE_ONLY) in their filenames. EEng 21:52, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)@Littlemonday: JJMC89 basically gave a shortened version of the same response here that Jayron32 posted directly above. Not every file you see on Wikipedia is licensed the same way, and how a file is licensed largely determines which Wikipedia policies it's subject to and, therefore, essentially how it may be used. All files are subject to Wikipedia:Image use policy, but those uploaded and licensed as non-free content are further subject to Wikipedia's non-free content use policy (or NFCC for short). The NFCC is similar to the concept of fair use, but it has been intentionally made to be much more restrictive for Wikipedia's purposes. There are ten non-free content use criteria which need to be satisfied each time a non-free file is used. You added the Griffiths image to an article, but didn't provide the separate specific non-free use rationale required by criterion 10c for that particular use to the file's page; so, it was flagged as a violation and subsequently removed by a bot and this edit sum was left. The bot did what it was supposed to do according to WP:NFCCE, and the edit sum contained links to relevant pages where more information could be found or clarification could be requested. You did ask for clarification at User talk:JJMC89#Jim Griffiths photo, where more links to relevant pages were provided for reference, but apparently still don't understand why the file was removed. Relevant policy does allow a non-free image of a deceased person to be uploaded per item 10 of WP:NFCI pretty much only when the image in question is being used for primary identification purposes at the top of or in the main infobox of a stand-alone article about the individual in question; it may be possible to use such a file in other articles, but these additional uses tend to be much harder to justify and require a pretty strong contextual connection between image and relevant sourced content about the image itself in almost all cases. A list article is "Deputy Leader of the Labour Party (UK)" is basically a list of names with some short biographical information about each entry. The use of non-free images in such articles has long been considered to be something not acceptable per WP:NFLISTS. The other images used in the article are all "free images" (public domain or otherwise freely licensed), so they are not subject to the policy on non-free content use. This might partially explain why you see so many similar list articles using pictures, but which also have entries without images. You may have also come across some cases where a non-free image is being used in multiple articles, but that doesn't mean it should be being used in multiple articles or that the circumstances of each use are the same what you're discussing here. My suggestion to you for future reference is to first determine how a file is licensed before adding it to any articles; you can do this by clicking on the image itself. If it's an image from Commons or otherwise a "free image", then you can probably add it to any page without any problems; on the other hand, if it's licensed as non-free, then you are going to only be able to add it to articles if the way you want to use it satisfies relevant policy. If you're not sure about this, you can always ask for help at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions or Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:08, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Ah, since you've given us a specific example, I can help you understand the problem. The image in the infobox at Jim Griffiths is currently a copyright photograph. Normally, we do not accept copyrighted photographs, unless the copyright own releases the image in a way that is compatible with Wikipedia's licensing. HOWEVER (and this is where people get all turned around), in a LIMITED number of situations, we can republish a copyrighted work under the guise of fair use, which among other things under U.S. copyright law, allows us to do so only when no other alternative exists, and even then we may only use it in highly restricted ways. By a combination of Wikipedia policy, Foundation-level policy, and U.S. law itself, that usually means that we can only use a single copy of such a picture in a single article, where the picture itself is illustrating the subject of the article. There are probably a few other exceptions, but in this case, the picture at Jim Griffiths can only be used to illustrate that one article. You can read more about these restrictions at WP:NFCC. --Jayron32 17:37, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, yes User:JJMC89's response was unhelpful and uninsiteful. If you look at their edits/the edit's of their bot you'll see this is effecting a lot of people. The issue I had was regarding the photo of Jim Griffiths, which is already on Wikipedia, I added it to a second article and it was removed. I fail to see any logical argument (or rule on this site) that prevents that. There are plenty of photos which appear on numourous articles, and the inclusion of that photo on the second page added something to the article. It's also not helpful (or polite) when someone is so dismissive of something you are trying to help with.Littlemonday (talk) 16:54, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- My explanation works like this: "Unless you took the picture on your own camera, and thus own the copyright yourself, don't try to upload it. It is technically possible to do so, but you'll screw it up and someone will delete it and you'll get mad and it'll be a bad time for all. So only upload pictures you yourself have taken, on your own free time, using your own camera." If anyone wants additional instructions, I direct them to the policy page and say "If you can figure this out on your own, and want to try, feel free to, but be aware that someone will probably try to delete your picture without warning and it won't be clear why that happened." That usually works for me as an explanation. --Jayron32 15:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I guessing most people focused on this area burned out their ability to explain the issues after the first few hundred people ignoring them or blaming them for something that isn't their fault. Just a guess, but it can wear on you. zchrykng (talk) 15:37, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
Someone is removing nonfree images with a bot? Anyone who remembers Betacommand should know that is a bad, bad idea. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 22:48, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- User:FairuseBot managed to remove nonfree images without trouble, at least until bugs in the Wikipedia API made it too much of a pain to keep working. --Carnildo (talk) 23:58, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion distracts from the fact that this is unequivocally a frivolous and inappropriate complaint by Littlemonday. There was literally nothing rude or dismissive about JJMC89's comments to LM at User talk:JJMC89#Jim Griffiths photo. He just straightforwardly stated that the use of the image did not satisfy the NFCC, specifically explained which of the NFCC were not satisfied, and why, specifically, the image was removed. He literally just explained that there were policy violations, with links to the relevant policies. I understand that copyright policies are a nuanced concept that can be difficult to get a grasp of, but you don't immediately drag someone to AN/I because you don't understand the policies that are being cited to you. If LM actually took the time to read the policy pages that were provided to them, then JJMC's comments would have been understandable and reasonable, and if they were still confused about the concepts discussed in those policies, they could have easily asked followup questions. But instead of even making any sort of effort to collaborate reasonably, they went straight to AN/I to report JJMC for "making a lot of unhelpful edits and is annoying a lot of individuals". Unreal. Is it any wonder why these users are short on patience, Floquenbeam? Swarm talk 22:38, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- User talk:Swarm Three things, first of all Hello. Secondly I asked JJMC89 to explain in plain English why he/his bot removed removed some improvements I'd made, he was unable to do that in Plain English. Others have explained it to me. I think the rules are silly, and confusing to people but rules are rules. Thirdly and finally, I 'reported' him as there are lots of users who are upset/confused by his work and he was offering no explanation and just deleting people's work. If you look a little closer you'll see plenty more people like me. Littlemonday (talk) 20:57, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Littlemonday: JJMC89 did explain things in plain English. If you didn't understand the plain English explanation, you could have sought clarification. You did not do so instead started a pointless ANI. What you did is clearly not blockable, but JJMC89 seems to have done nothing wrong instead they've correctly enforced cornerstone policy which you violated, and then provided a plain English explanation when asked. Having done nothing wrong can't be said for you. And please provide examples of where editors are upset and confused and for which no explanation was offered. In all the examples I see on their current talk page except for a very new one, someone has responded when questions were asked. Some of these may not be JJMC89 themselves, but it's often pointless to respond if someone has already said precisely what you will say or at least offered enough of an answer that what you would have said is redundant. There is a long discussion in the "#Please Discuss Your Citation to a Subjective Policy section" but while it's clear not everyone is happy, it also clear it's way too complicated a dispute to suggest no explanation was offered or that JJMC89 is at fault. If you are unable to provide evidence, IMO you should withdraw the claim or it becomes a personal attack. Nil Einne (talk) 17:10, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I've looked at User talk:JJMC89/Archives/2018/October and it's the same, actually even less of a case for any problems. Nil Einne (talk) 17:18, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Littlemonday: JJMC89 did explain things in plain English. If you didn't understand the plain English explanation, you could have sought clarification. You did not do so instead started a pointless ANI. What you did is clearly not blockable, but JJMC89 seems to have done nothing wrong instead they've correctly enforced cornerstone policy which you violated, and then provided a plain English explanation when asked. Having done nothing wrong can't be said for you. And please provide examples of where editors are upset and confused and for which no explanation was offered. In all the examples I see on their current talk page except for a very new one, someone has responded when questions were asked. Some of these may not be JJMC89 themselves, but it's often pointless to respond if someone has already said precisely what you will say or at least offered enough of an answer that what you would have said is redundant. There is a long discussion in the "#Please Discuss Your Citation to a Subjective Policy section" but while it's clear not everyone is happy, it also clear it's way too complicated a dispute to suggest no explanation was offered or that JJMC89 is at fault. If you are unable to provide evidence, IMO you should withdraw the claim or it becomes a personal attack. Nil Einne (talk) 17:10, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- User talk:Swarm Three things, first of all Hello. Secondly I asked JJMC89 to explain in plain English why he/his bot removed removed some improvements I'd made, he was unable to do that in Plain English. Others have explained it to me. I think the rules are silly, and confusing to people but rules are rules. Thirdly and finally, I 'reported' him as there are lots of users who are upset/confused by his work and he was offering no explanation and just deleting people's work. If you look a little closer you'll see plenty more people like me. Littlemonday (talk) 20:57, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) Yeah, this is definitely an inappropriate complaint. JJMC89 assumed ignorance of policy rather than assuming bad faith, they clearly explained what was going on, and provided links to further reading. I've seen them interact with several editors over non-free file use issues, and have never known them to be anything but correct in their application of policy and polite in their explanations. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 15:58, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
Leha Ovch adding unsourced material
This is a content issue, not a chronic, intractable behavioral problem, and so does not belong at ANI. Please resolve at the level of the article, utilizing the suggestions at the bottom of this thread. Softlavender (talk) 13:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Leha Ovch added unsourced material to Neon Future III here and here. --Jax 0677 (talk) 18:29, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Ok, but like there's no evidence of any edit warring or article talk page discussion. You threw up a templated warning and then went here pretty much immediately. Let's try not to WP:BITE too hard, OK? Simonm223 (talk) 18:52, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Reply @Simonm223:, Leha Ovch did so after two warnings by Ss112 and one warning by me. --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:20, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- 19 months ago? --Bsherr (talk) 20:44, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Reply @Bsherr:, yes, 19 months ago by Ss112, and about 19 hours ago by me ;) --Jax 0677 (talk) 21:16, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Looks like there have been no edits subsequent to the most recent user warning. Why don't we assume that takes care of it for now? It doesn't seem to me to rise to being intractable behavior requiring action here yet. --Bsherr (talk) 21:26, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Reply @Bsherr:, yes, 19 months ago by Ss112, and about 19 hours ago by me ;) --Jax 0677 (talk) 21:16, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- 19 months ago? --Bsherr (talk) 20:44, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Reply @Simonm223:, Leha Ovch did so after two warnings by Ss112 and one warning by me. --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:20, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Jax 0677: bumping doesn't actually do anything except prevent the post from archiving. I've added in a DNAU tag to this post, which will extend this out for another 4 days without the need for bumping. --Blackmane (talk) 03:13, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'm guessing you can probably stop the bumping now, Jax 0677; it's been here for over a week, vast number of admins and ordinary folk have clearly seen this, of those not one has picked up on it? Let it go; if the issue recurs, then bring it back another time, eh? Happy days, LindsayHello 12:32, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Jax 0677, adding uncited material to an article is not sanctionable, and is definitely not an ANI issue. It is a content issue. If someone adds uncited material to an article, and you find that problematical, you can do one or more of the following: (1) add a "citation needed" tag to the item or an "unreferenced section" template to the section; (2) Find the album credits somewhere (AllMusic, Discogs, official sites, etc.) and add a citation yourself; (3) Bring up the matter on the talkpage of the article (pinging the user if needed); (4) remove the material from the article. It's best not to remove the material, however, before you have tagged it and allowed a sufficient amount of time for someone to find and add citations.
Since this matter is not appropriate for ANI, I am going to close this thread. Softlavender (talk) 13:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Cléééston as a suspected sockpuppet of Guilherme Styles
A reasonable question, but in future such matters can be directed to the unblocking administrator if they are active. TheDragonFire (talk) 04:58, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't know what to do about this, so posting here. There is a thread started by Cléééston at GAC:Open reviews for over two months, regarding lapsed reviews by another user. When I clicked Cléééston's user page, it comes up showing a notice he's a suspected sock. That notice has been on his page since 2015. He had been blocked by DrKay in 2015, and unblocked also by DrKay in September 2018. Is this user a sock or not? If not, why is that notice still on his user page. If he is still a sock, why was he unblocked? Kind of confusing. — Maile (talk) 00:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- Maile66: I was blocked for suspicion of being a sock, but nothing was ever proven and I was eventually cleared. I'm not a sock puppet, I just forgot to remove the tag. Cléééston (talk) 00:49, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
User:Austin crick and legal threats
Tick tock, another block. User disappeared over close paraphrasing and IDHT. TheDragonFire (talk) 05:09, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This looks very much like a legal threat mentioning both Courts and lawyers in the same sentence. Velella Velella Talk 16:54, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, a veiled legal threat. A NLT Template is needed now. nothing more. --DBigXrayᗙ 16:58, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I've left a note too. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:05, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- To be fair, he's explained what he meant, and IMHO it's a credible explanation. He's not threatening legal action against other editors, he's saying if someone wants to sue him for copyvio, they can do so in the courts. Which is still a misunderstanding, but not a legal threat. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:08, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Still probably needs to be blocked for continuing copyright violations on Draft:King_Lear_(1957),_a_painting_by_Werner_Drewes_(Bauhaus_School) (and there's some RD1 revdelling that needs to be done there too) Galobtter (pingó mió) 18:19, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- To be fair, he's explained what he meant, and IMHO it's a credible explanation. He's not threatening legal action against other editors, he's saying if someone wants to sue him for copyvio, they can do so in the courts. Which is still a misunderstanding, but not a legal threat. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:08, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- This is an obvious CIR case and I can't imagine why so much time was wasted on this person, nor why the block isn't simply indefinite. Hopeless. EEng 03:12, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
I have given this editor an indefinite block. If any administrator disagrees and thinks that there is any hope that this editor will become a productive contributor, then please feel free to unblock. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:27, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Believe this is an open proxy
Evil vanquished with the usual meticulous precision. TheDragonFire (talk) 05:06, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The ref desk vandal was just using 209.152.115.22 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log). It has been blocked 60 hours, but I believe this may be a proxy and therefore might need a longer block. [339] says it detects a proxy on that IP, but I'm not an expert on determining that. Thanks. Home Lander (talk) 04:45, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Not notifying the IP of this discussion. Home Lander (talk) 04:46, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Now used 175.139.218.221 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), which I've also reported at AIV. Home Lander (talk) 04:50, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- He rarely uses the same IP twice, and so it's probably not a big deal. --Jayron32 04:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- If we check every IP he uses, he might be doing us an inadvertent service by finding and identifying open proxies for us. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:05, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- While the honeypot nature of this is mildly useful, the scale of this means, no, we're not going to do so in our lifetimes. There are 4 trillion IPv4 addresses and 3.4×10^38 IPv6 addresses. If only 1 in a thousand of those was an open proxy, that would still live us with more addresses to block than it would take till the heat death of the universe to exhaust. Nice idea, though. --Jayron32 05:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Actually there are 4 billion (not trillion) IPv4 addresses. A little old lady goes to a lecture on astronomy. Afterwards she asks the speaker, "Did I understand you to say, professor, that the sun will burn out in 4 million years?" "No madam, I said 4 billion years." "Oh thank goodness," says the old lady, "I'm so relieved!" EEng 00:08, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- Brute force searching the IPv6 address space for open proxies is obviously not feasible (though IPv4 is, see Censys), but that wasn't being suggested. Also, there are certainly not 3.4×10^35 (1 in 1000) IPv6 open proxies in operation for us to find. TheDragonFire (talk) 06:26, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- ProcseeBot automatically blocks open proxies. So, we're not completely defenseless. It is annoying, though. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 09:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- While the honeypot nature of this is mildly useful, the scale of this means, no, we're not going to do so in our lifetimes. There are 4 trillion IPv4 addresses and 3.4×10^38 IPv6 addresses. If only 1 in a thousand of those was an open proxy, that would still live us with more addresses to block than it would take till the heat death of the universe to exhaust. Nice idea, though. --Jayron32 05:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- If we check every IP he uses, he might be doing us an inadvertent service by finding and identifying open proxies for us. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:05, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- He rarely uses the same IP twice, and so it's probably not a big deal. --Jayron32 04:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
copyright violations by Chanuka Konara
User blocked by Bishonen. TheDragonFire (talk) 05:00, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
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Chanuka Konara (talk · contribs) added copyrighted material to Wariyapola Sri Sumangala College [here] and again after being warned on their talk page [here]. Rather than appear to edit war I bring it the issue here. Gab4gab (talk) 19:04, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- I've reverted the copyvio (it is blatant), and given a stronger warning message. I'm inclined towards giving this user a bit more ROPE (1 more strike), as the previous warning feels more like a level 1/2 than a level 3/4. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 19:12, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- After the two warnings, the same text was inserted by an IP, 2402:4000:2182:e013:2dfe:1121:adf4:46f. The quacking is quite deafening, so I've blocked both Chanuka Konara and the IP for a couple of weeks. Bishonen talk 20:54, 10 November 2018 (UTC).
User:Fred Bauder
This is not going to ever be productive. OP has asked for this to be hatted. Errors were made, no action will be forthcoming here, that much is clear. For the greater good, let's just shut this off. Any admin, feel free to revert this if you thin it closed in error. John from Idegon (talk) 20:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
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I would like to see sanctions against User:Fred Bauder for his deeply hurtful, slanderous, sinister and threatening words on his arb com elect page.[340]. Is this how we enforce CIV; by denigrating and making broad treats against anybody who questions the basis of an arb candidacy and request more transparency as regards intent- He said: I can see that you feel free to act as ugly as you wish here, an assessment which I believe is true. I would change that and enforce Civility. You, should you continue to engage in ugly behavior, would be subject to sanctions, and, if you are unable to control your behavior, which I suspect is true, would not be able to participate on Wikipedia. So, in a way, you are fighting for your life. I have been here since mid 2006, am dedicated, and this is just horrible behavior. I prodded him because he is making noises about digging up old woulds and settling old scores. This is far worse behavior than swearing. Ceoil (talk) 17:42, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Your OP was needlessly antagonistic, he responded in kind. Neither of you has demonstrated conspicuous civility here. I suspect I know were this is headed.Slatersteven (talk) 17:48, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- In fact, I was responding in kind to his earlier and similar statements above. But I take your point. Ceoil (talk) 17:54, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- What is a "caste conscious warrior"? Bus stop (talk) 18:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- You might wonder:) I meant viewing buttons as sources of status and power; admins over editors, arbs over admins. Sorry for the drama, but evidently I am "fighting for [my] life", which I suppose I should take seriously. It would seem an indeff is on the way, and that would upset me no end. Ceoil (talk) 18:02, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- What am I missing here?Slatersteven (talk) 18:11, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- I think "caste conscious warrior" is too colorful to serve a constructive purpose. Bus stop (talk) 18:16, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- For colour—of a florid hue—I don't think anyone can beat User:FredBauder's comments at that page. ——SerialNumber54129 19:16, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Ceoil: You are required to notify Fred Bauder of this thread. I've done so.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:12, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, I had typed it up, but got distracted by Slatersteven's question (which I though was fair). Thanks anyway. Ceoil (talk) 19:14, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Ceoil, I can't predict what anyone will do, but I think it highly unlikely that Fred will block you. I agree with Slaterseven that your question to Fred was antagonistic (exacerbated by your flair for language), but I also think that Fred's response was inapproriate, more so than your question. Still, I don't think any administrator is going to block Fred based on your conversation with him. My suggestion is to let it go.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:38, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Grand, Bbb23, I agree with this analysis, now that I have time to clam down, properly assess the threat level and conclude it was empty bullshit; you can hat at will. Ceoil (talk) 19:43, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Pot calls the kettle black. This thread smacks a little too much of "don't vote for Fred Bauder" for my liking. ♫ RichardWeisstalkcontribs 20:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Not exactly nor even close. Fred explicitly said that if he was elected I was toast: "So, in a way, you are fighting for your life". Apparently thats not actionable, so I'm calling it quits in frustration, reading the tea leafs "I don't think any administrator is going to block Fred". I know gathering around and boomerang when I see it. Ceoil (talk) 20:06, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Surely it doesn't need an AN/I thread for editors to know what they would be voting for. ——SerialNumber54129 20:03, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Pot calls the kettle black. This thread smacks a little too much of "don't vote for Fred Bauder" for my liking. ♫ RichardWeisstalkcontribs 20:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- This 'might be' a first. A call for sanctions against an Arbitrator candidate, while he's seeking the position. GoodDay (talk) 20:29, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Well I think that ship sailed, and worse. "You sank my arbcomship!". The Rambling Man (talk) 20:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Spamming ELs
Smellyshirt5 blocked 36 hours. Softlavender (talk) 00:52, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
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Please block User:Smellyshirt5 who is edit warring to spam ELs to École Polytechnique into multiple pages. Some kind of weird internal WP spam. See Special:Contributions/Smellyshirt5. Jytdog (talk) 23:11, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- This is not a spam. I am a real human bean trying to note the historical importance of one of the first technical schools by adding it to known technical school's "See also" sections...Smellyshirt5 (talk) 23:31, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- That's not what a "See also" section is for. It's for articles that are closely related to the subject at hand. —Jeremy v^_^v Bori! 23:47, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Even if you were right (you're not), edit warring is still wrong. Experience suggests that someone passionately insisting on links is spamming or inappropriately boosting something. Both are incompatible with Wikipedia. Johnuniq (talk) 23:59, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Your claim My response This is not a spam. Yes, it is. You want to use Wikipedia to promote your favorite university. It's great that your proud of your Grande Ecole, but you'll need to find somewhere else to promote it. See Wikipedia:Avoid academic boosterism and WP:NOTADVERTISING. I am a real human bean trying to note the historical importance of one of the first technical schools by adding it to known technical school's "See also" sections Adding an internal link to your favorite university to every college and university offering a remotely technical curriculum just because your favorite is "one of the first" is promoting your favorite. See Wikipedia:Avoid academic boosterism and WP:NOTADVERTISING for why you shouldn't do this.
- I blocked this editor for edit warring, tendentious editing and spamming external links. Plus stubbornness and refusal to listen to other editors. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:21, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Winged Blades of Godric and rollback right
Per Ivanvector, and circumstances. (non-admin closure) ——SerialNumber54129 18:59, 11 November 2018 (UTC) |
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I believe that WBG misused the rollback right to perform three reverts in eight minutes. I don't think WBG should have the right, and I support its indefinite removal. WBG had had it revoked previously. wumbolo ^^^ 18:54, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- I think this is probably not a good time for this. Oppose for the sake of rationality. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:57, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Abuse of administrator rights
Closing this as a WP:TALKFORK, since an ArbCom thread is open about this concurrently, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#SwarmAbusingPower. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 14:12, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
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In a routine request for permissions [341], Swarm incorrectly said I was not recognizing vandalism, after I emphasized that I was recognizing it and reverting vandalism. I pointed out to him that I was taking a softer approach with edits like [342] and [343] by Assuming good faith. I also pointed that I had marked more than 40 edits as vandalism. He retorted to his administrator-ship. Instead of realizing that there is more than one way to do things he just said "an administrator" is saying so and so, without giving any real policy answers. I found that very arrogant, and pointed that out to him, and made clear my intent to walk away from the disagreement. He, without any warning, blocked me. I have no history of disruptive behavior and I find this abuse of administrator rights.
If he took offense to "high horse" then he proved my point by blocking me. If he took offense to questioning his maturity, then not only proved me right, but is also guilty of same behavior. By blocking me, he went against this, as I have not history of any kind of disruptive behavior. The block was totally unwarranted and served no purpose than to gain an advantage in a dispute in which they were involved. IT is my understanding that administrators are expected to have a better understanding of rules than a new editor like myself. I find this refusal to see a different way of doing this and taking care not WP:BITE, and just saying "an administrator" is saying so, and blocking me contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia. So said The Great Wiki Lord. (talk) 13:35, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- Seems like more of a WP:AN issue. I've been on a long enough wikibreak I won't comment on whether it was technically a bad block before reviewing WP:ADMIN and WP:BP again in detail. That said, if you were insulting Swarm with immaturity-related labeling, a second admin might well have issued a civility block anyway, so it may really be a moot point. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 13:40, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @SMcCandlish: TGWL already went straight to ArbCom with this and is in the process of being kicked back here; it's not clear exactly what he's looking for, but the choice of venues implies he's gunning for a desysop, which, honestly, doesn't look likely. Swarm is one of the few active admins who I think doesn't deserve to have his mop privileges reviewed. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:53, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- Endorse block - while I might not have blocked a user with a clean record blowing off steam over a declined permissions request, the comments were unambiguous personal attacks and Swarm was within admin discretion to block. Swarm is not WP:INVOLVED: this is not a content dispute and Swarm has participated only in an administrative capacity, and furthermore there is no "catch-22" that users can't be blocked by the admins they insult. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:09, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Spamming ELs
Smellyshirt5 blocked 36 hours. Softlavender (talk) 00:52, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
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Please block User:Smellyshirt5 who is edit warring to spam ELs to École Polytechnique into multiple pages. Some kind of weird internal WP spam. See Special:Contributions/Smellyshirt5. Jytdog (talk) 23:11, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- This is not a spam. I am a real human bean trying to note the historical importance of one of the first technical schools by adding it to known technical school's "See also" sections...Smellyshirt5 (talk) 23:31, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- That's not what a "See also" section is for. It's for articles that are closely related to the subject at hand. —Jeremy v^_^v Bori! 23:47, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Even if you were right (you're not), edit warring is still wrong. Experience suggests that someone passionately insisting on links is spamming or inappropriately boosting something. Both are incompatible with Wikipedia. Johnuniq (talk) 23:59, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Your claim My response This is not a spam. Yes, it is. You want to use Wikipedia to promote your favorite university. It's great that your proud of your Grande Ecole, but you'll need to find somewhere else to promote it. See Wikipedia:Avoid academic boosterism and WP:NOTADVERTISING. I am a real human bean trying to note the historical importance of one of the first technical schools by adding it to known technical school's "See also" sections Adding an internal link to your favorite university to every college and university offering a remotely technical curriculum just because your favorite is "one of the first" is promoting your favorite. See Wikipedia:Avoid academic boosterism and WP:NOTADVERTISING for why you shouldn't do this.
- I blocked this editor for edit warring, tendentious editing and spamming external links. Plus stubbornness and refusal to listen to other editors. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:21, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
SPI vandal at it again
Vandals blocked. Softlavender (talk) 11:55, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
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- Mudospfjod (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Tobnadkcf (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Theinstentmatrix (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- MangoChkUser (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
Some quick admin intervention is needed here. Thanks. theinstantmatrix (talk) 10:44, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
User:PrimeBOT
The immediate issue was resolved without the need for an ANI discussion - the bot stopped editing when a message was left on the bot's talk page, though I note that occurred AFTER this ANI report was lodged, which is disappointing. I see that Primefac has undertaken to resolve the damage caused and to ensure further discussion takes place before resuming this work, which is what I would have asked to happen when closing a discussion such as this. I'm slightly concerned that Zackmann08s report is woefully inaccurate, claiming that no trial edits took place and that no BRFA exists, to claims which are manifestly untrue, so my advice to Zackmann08 is to ensure they only come to ANI when administrator attention is more urgently required and when they do, to ensure their reports are factually correct. Nick (talk) 15:32, 11 November 2018 (UTC) |
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This bot which is owned and operated by Primefac recently started performing a large number of edits. These edits have resulted in thousands of errors with pages being dumped into Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls because of various issues with the script. My concern here is that as a bot operator I know we are required to file new WP:BRFAs every time we start a new bot. That clearly was not done here and no trial edits or tests were performed. The edit summaries are referencing a WP:BRFA that is vague and from February. It seems to have no relevance to the current bot run. At the very least a WP:TROUT is warranted but it concerns me that the WP:BRFA process was intentionally skipped and that this bot has introduced so many issues. Multiple unanswered messages have been left on Primefac's page. It appears there is simply no oversight on this process. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 07:22, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- It looks like bad timing where Primefac went offline a few hours ago and missed the problem reports at User talk:Primefac. The bot seems to have stopped at the time of the first report at User talk:PrimeBOT. It would only be worth posting at ANI if the bot had not stopped (so a temporary block might be required) or if Primefac were still editing and had not responded to discussions. Stuff happens. Some examples that uninvolved people can follow would have been helpful but that does not matter now. Johnuniq (talk) 10:10, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Johnuniq: what concerns me is the fact that there was no WP:BRFA. This was a MASSIVE series of untested and unapproved edits by a bot. I've operated numerous bots and so I know that anytime you change anything about a bot, you need a new WP:BRFA. There was no such request. Primefac unleashed a new and untested bot that caused thousands of errors. I'm not necessarily advocating a block here. We absolutely all make mistakes, lord knows I've made tons of them. Were this simply a broken bot I'd say WP:TROUT and move on. My concern is the that I want to understand why the WP:BRFA process was circumvented. That is what concerns me much more than the fact that the bot didn't work. The process is in place to prevent these sorts of mistakes from happening. If you look at the contributions of the bot, nearly every edit in the run is broken. This indicates to me that very little testing (if any) was done. So I would like an admin to investigate why no BRFA was filed and how this bot was able to be unleashed in such a broken state. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 10:21, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- First, yes, I cocked this one up. I made an assumption (and yes, we all know what that means) based on the number of posts made on my talk regarding the subject that the merger was ready to be implemented. This will not happen again, and I will clean up my mess. second, I'm a bit disappointed that this escalated so quickly to ANI (instead of just stopping my bot, leaving me a note, going to WP:BOTN, and then coming here after I had not responded and/or responded disparagingly). Third, to address the BRFA issue, my bot was given permission to implement the outcomes of TFDs. Primefac (talk) 13:25, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Johnuniq: what concerns me is the fact that there was no WP:BRFA. This was a MASSIVE series of untested and unapproved edits by a bot. I've operated numerous bots and so I know that anytime you change anything about a bot, you need a new WP:BRFA. There was no such request. Primefac unleashed a new and untested bot that caused thousands of errors. I'm not necessarily advocating a block here. We absolutely all make mistakes, lord knows I've made tons of them. Were this simply a broken bot I'd say WP:TROUT and move on. My concern is the that I want to understand why the WP:BRFA process was circumvented. That is what concerns me much more than the fact that the bot didn't work. The process is in place to prevent these sorts of mistakes from happening. If you look at the contributions of the bot, nearly every edit in the run is broken. This indicates to me that very little testing (if any) was done. So I would like an admin to investigate why no BRFA was filed and how this bot was able to be unleashed in such a broken state. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 10:21, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
IP user spamming help requests
IP temporarily blocked. Took the liberty of closing this.PizzaMan ♨♨♨ 12:33, 11 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure) |
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An IP user is spamming the request to help improve a page about some semi-celebrity (Maureen Wroblewitz) to quite a lot of random editors. A message on his talk page doesn't help. It's not a disaster, but i think rapid intervention is required. This is annoying to the tens of editors who get this random message. PizzaMan ♨♨♨ 09:26, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @PizzaMan: I've reverted all the spam, but I agree an admin should review this situation. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 09:33, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Zackmann08: Thanks. It seems to have stopped for now. Still wonder how this editor came to pick me as the first person to spam and how he selected the other editors. I can't think of any way how i'm related to the subject. Anyway, is there a way to automatically keep tabs on future edits from this IP? PizzaMan ♨♨♨ 09:43, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @PizzaMan:Alex Shih has blocked them so I think you are good. :) --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 09:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Zackmann08:, @Alex Shih: thank you both fot the rapid reaction! PizzaMan ♨♨♨ 09:49, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @PizzaMan:Alex Shih has blocked them so I think you are good. :) --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 09:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Zackmann08: Thanks. It seems to have stopped for now. Still wonder how this editor came to pick me as the first person to spam and how he selected the other editors. I can't think of any way how i'm related to the subject. Anyway, is there a way to automatically keep tabs on future edits from this IP? PizzaMan ♨♨♨ 09:43, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Editing against policy and guideline
Bsems is being disruptive by editing against policy and guideline. Per consensus here - use only the first three characters of a month when abbreviated and no full stop after the abbreviated month, or in the alternative spell each month out. Same thing it says at MOS:DATESNO, which also links to the consensus. I fixed all seasons of The Voice to be consistent and compliant with the consensus and editor has reverted all changes, at least 14 or 15 reverts. Editor needs to be warned not to edit against policies - WP:CONSENSUS, and guidelines - MOS:DATESNO. I've warned him previously and tried to engage in talk page discussions, but editor refuses to discuss and rarely leaves edit summaries for any edit as can be seen by his contribution history and warnings on his talk page. Editor also seems to own these articles as seen in Season 15 where editor reverts everyone and everything without explaining why. Diffs of selected reverts (but certainly not all) - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 Isaidnoway (talk) 09:30, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- Has made two more reverts since this report was filed: here and here. Isaidnoway (talk) 09:47, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- Their non-article edits are... interesting. "Do it again and I will suspend you." WP:OWN+WP:CIR? —Wasell(T) 11:59, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) They have done the same at The Voice (U.S. TV series), sans edit summary, despite the edits being explained upon their original removal. Seems as if they might not be here for the right reasons where their editing patterns are concerned. I agree that WP:OWN might be playing a part here. livelikemusic talk! 13:30, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- Their non-article edits are... interesting. "Do it again and I will suspend you." WP:OWN+WP:CIR? —Wasell(T) 11:59, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- According to their contribution history, so far in the first 7 days of this month alone, they have made 66 reverts with 4 edit summaries - p. 1 Nov, p. 2 Nov, p. 3 Nov. In the month of October they made 148 reverts with only 5 edit summaries. And apparently they use an app for sourcing - app, app 2 - instead of using reliable sources, I recently added 5 sources showing this young lady was only 13 at the time of her performance, but yet they persist they are right, according to their app. I propose an indef block until this user understands they must communicate with fellow editors and use edit summaries and use reliable sources. Isaidnoway (talk) 16:49, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- I really need to clean out my watchlist and set Twinkle not to add user pages to my watch list lol. With that aside this is a normal pattern of behavior for Bsems based on my past experience where the user will keep making edits against policy, guidelines and even consensus. Bsems doesn't want to leave edit summaries in most cases or shows signs of WP:OWN and doesn't want to discuss controversial/reversed edits on the talk page. In the past the user has violated the WP:3RR rule which resulted in a 48 hour ban on March 22 2018. Bsems was also blocked for 72 hrs for similar behavior in regards to the article WrestleMania 34 as seen here from April 2018. Bsems was also involved in a dispute with World of Dance (season 2) which in the page being fully protected on September 18 2018. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 00:09, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Six more reverts, with no regard whatsoever to what they were reverting, some of these reverts putting back numerous reference errors (author's names who didn't write the article) and numerous dead links, external links being used as refs, back into the articles, and still no valid reason given in any edit summaries. Still refuses to communicate, still owns these articles. - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Isaidnoway (talk) 07:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- I blocked Bsems for a week for edit warring and article ownership, but I agree that seems to be a long-term problem. I think we're heading toward an indefinite block. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 09:31, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
User:Agricolae WP:BATTLEFIELD
- Agricolae (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Agricolae is taking an aggressive WP:BATTLEFIELD approach to a content discussion with me at Talk:James Balfour (died 1845)#Claimed_Royal_descent, and being overtly bullying, whilst projecting their aggression into me.
In 12½ years of editing en.wp, I have not been subject to such a bullying, hectoring approach to content discussion since the long-departed User:Vintagekits. Please can someone persuade him that a consensus-forming discussion requires WP:CIVILity. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:04, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I tried persuading Agricolae of that once...at Philip II of Spain. They didn't like an edit I made and undid it. So I took it to the talk page, got other editors to agree with the edit...and Ag still wouldn't take no for an answer, continuing to edit-war over the discussion. Ag is probably due a block for BATTLEfield and edit-warring. pbp 03:37, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- (ec)Indeed, PBP. Before coming to ANI, I looked a little at the history of Agricolae's (unarchived, repeatedly blank) talk page, and found this[344] telling you to
grow up
, and this[345] accusing you of BATTLEFIELD and urging you toGo #^$%&^($% yourself
. - It was those diffs, on the first screenful of Agricolae's talk history which persuaded me that what I encountered was not just someone having a bad day, but part of a pattern.
- I was particularly interested to see that amidst all Ag's aggression to you, he also accused you of taking a BATTLEFIELD approach. That projection into others of his own aggression was one of the things which I found most unsettling in my discussion with him. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 03:55, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- As long as we are sharing particularly interesting observations, 'projection' is precisely the word that occurred to me as you leveled at me accusation after accusation, including BATTLEFIELD (I was not the person who invoked 'retreat'). Even here, in the very same response, you all but call me illiterate while at the same time declaring that I am incivil. Irony much? Agricolae (talk) 04:51, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Agricolae, I will set out the sequence in full below. In that you will see that the BATTLFIELD conduct was initiated by your post of 17:52, 8 November 2018[346], in which you
- used the phrae
ancestor-fawning trivia
both in body text and as an edit summary - used shouty CAPS
- used the phrae
- In my reply[347], I asked you to
to take a less combative tone
- You responded at 20:00 [348]
Wow, into the twilight zone we go
. - That's the projection which I was referring to, and fits the same pattern as your exchange with PBP in August on your talk page.
- Note that in your reply of 20:00 your wrote
I am perfectly familiar with NOTGENEALOGY, just not your special reading of it that draws a distinction between 'family history' and 'just a little bit of family history'. I have not retreated from NOTGENEALOGY one iota
. This is why i have asked you explicitly below to clarify whether you still hold to your claim that'just a little bit of family history'
is simply myspecial reading
of a policy which says in full "Family histories should be presented only where appropriate to support the reader's understanding of a notable topic". - So I ask again: do you still think that NOTGENEALOGY's wording "only where appropriate" justifies your claim that
'just a little bit of family history'
is fordbideen? - You were being bullying and sneering on the basis of a policy which you flat-out misrepresented. I AGFed that that the misrepresentation might not be intentional, so I phrased my challenge gently ... but even now, you deny the misrepresentation and instead complain that I wrote
you repeatedly namechecked WP:NOTGENEALOGY, but apparently without scrutinising its text
. - This sort of thing is why I came to ANI. You attack, bully and sneer on the basis of a flat-out wrong claim about policy ... and then when you challenged you apologise for nothing, and claim that you are the victim because you were asked to act with civility and desist fro the battlefield behaviour. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 21:29, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oh come on. You have been insulting me and dismissing me and completely mischaracterizing my position and actions from the start, while explicitly stating that I have to completely abandon my position in favor of your POV before we can even have a real discussion (in which case there would be nothing left to discuss). It is fully indicative of your approach to this whole sorry scenario that you repeatedly have claimed it to your credit that you only accused me of not reading the policy I was citing, because the only alternatives you can envision for someone disagreeing with your self-evidently correct interpretation is incompetence or bad faith. And I am the one supposedly not interested in consensus. Agricolae (talk) 00:25, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Agricolae, I will set out the sequence in full below. In that you will see that the BATTLFIELD conduct was initiated by your post of 17:52, 8 November 2018[346], in which you
- As long as we are sharing particularly interesting observations, 'projection' is precisely the word that occurred to me as you leveled at me accusation after accusation, including BATTLEFIELD (I was not the person who invoked 'retreat'). Even here, in the very same response, you all but call me illiterate while at the same time declaring that I am incivil. Irony much? Agricolae (talk) 04:51, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- (ec)Indeed, PBP. Before coming to ANI, I looked a little at the history of Agricolae's (unarchived, repeatedly blank) talk page, and found this[344] telling you to
- [e/c] This from the person who accused me of citing policy I had not read, of 'retreating' and mentioned my "horror" at the content in question, but apparently that was all my fault too. I have faced one accusation of bad faith after another. (And now it seems that the text in question they so much want to retain was derived from a Google Books snippet alone. Sigh.) Agricolae (talk) 03:46, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I suggest that uninvolved editors read the discussion, and note Agricolae's rapid resort to shouty caps, hyperbole, and straw men, sarcasm and insult: e.g.
ancestor-fawning trivia
. The interpretation which Ag placed WP:NOTGENEALOGY is not supported by the text, so I was being charitable in suggesting that they had not read it. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 04:01, 9 November 2018 (UTC)- Ah, yes. We disagree about the meaning of a policy so obviously either I can't read or I didn't read it. This is civility? Agricolae (talk) 04:24, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- WP:NOTGENEALOGY says in full "'Family histories should be presented only where appropriate to support the reader's understanding of a notable topic."
- So it does not ban the inclusion of family history. On the contrary, the policy explicitly allows it "where appropriate". I suggested that you
seem unfamiliar with the policies you cite
, but why don't you explain? Did you a) not read "where appropriate", b) not comprehend it, or c) misrepresent it? - I tried to give you a graceful way out from your misunderstanding, but you were already in the battlefield mode which I have since learnt that you have displayed elsewhere.
- I invite uninvolved editors to review your comments such as
'It is not family history because it is only a little bit of family history'? That is a non sequitur,
, and compare them with the policy you were citing. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 04:44, 9 November 2018 (UTC)- Sigh. Not here too. Please consider, just ever so briefly, that the phrase "where appropriate" is by its very nature imprecise, such that someone might in good faith read the phrase, comprehend the phrase, not misrepresent the phrase, and yet still to not agree with your interpretation. Solely because I don't share your view on what is and is not appropriate, you say I must have misunderstood the words and thus need a graceful way out. That is insulting. Yet again. Agricolae (talk) 05:26, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Let's keep this simple, Agricolae.
- Do you agree that:
- WP:NOTGENEALOGY does not impose a ban on inclusion of family history?
- That it requires a judgement on what is appropriate? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:00, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- As illuminating as it may be, this is not the place for a discussion of the policy disagreement that gave rise to this report. This discussion is about behavior, mine and yours. Agricolae (talk) 17:29, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- On the contrary, it is central to the conduct issue.
- You acted aggressively and sneerily, on the basis that even a little bit of history was a breach of the policy[349]
. 'It is not family history because it is only a little bit of family history'? That is a non sequitur
. - It is important to clarify whether you stand by that view of policy. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 21:02, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- With all due respect, you seem not to have even tried to to understand my position if you so mischaracterize it. I have let you get away with a whole lot of what I consider to be totally unfounded accusations, but I am done with that. Here is my perspective on what has happened: months ago I had the temerity to question the propriety of a single sentence from a page you seem to think you WP:OWN, and all of the sudden and inexplicably two days ago it became a crisis that you couldn't allow to stand even while it was discussed. You dismissed my position out of hand as self-evidently wrong, a red herring or worse without making any effort to even understand what my position way was, you insulted my reading skills, questioned my good faith, argued as if it had the weight of fact a bold-faced assumption that the cited source probably has more relevant content just because a lot of books do that, and topped it off with reporting me here just to be sure I got taken out of the discussion completely, and you then would get to implement your position as the only valid one with nobody left to argue otherwise: all to prevent the intolerable proposition of a change to your page. And now, of course, you have restored the challenged text, because nothing says willingness to reach a consensus like acting unilaterally after telling the other person that they have to admit they have been wrong all along for the discussion to move forward. As I am sure is evident, my perception differs markedly from the version where I am the evil nasty incompetent person acting in bad faith to victimize you. Go figure. Agricolae (talk) 23:48, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Sigh. Not here too. Please consider, just ever so briefly, that the phrase "where appropriate" is by its very nature imprecise, such that someone might in good faith read the phrase, comprehend the phrase, not misrepresent the phrase, and yet still to not agree with your interpretation. Solely because I don't share your view on what is and is not appropriate, you say I must have misunderstood the words and thus need a graceful way out. That is insulting. Yet again. Agricolae (talk) 05:26, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Ah, yes. We disagree about the meaning of a policy so obviously either I can't read or I didn't read it. This is civility? Agricolae (talk) 04:24, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I suggest that uninvolved editors read the discussion, and note Agricolae's rapid resort to shouty caps, hyperbole, and straw men, sarcasm and insult: e.g.
- So, diffs showing the alleged behavior would be nice.Slatersteven (talk) 11:04, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Well, here is BHG insisting that I must not have read the policy I cite (which, as BHG states unambiguously above here, is code for me either acting in bad faith or being illiterate), and the characterization of my behavior as
expressing horror
that the disputed text should be included, and in the next paragraph, characterizing my listing of a second policy that I considered to be relevant as aretreat from your misplaced reliance on WP:NOTGENEALOGY
: [350] - Here is BHG is accusing me of acting in bad faith (
I don't believe that you genuinely hold to that reading
): [351] - And here is BHG, just this morning, telling me that if I want to work toward consensus I must first abandon my entire argument as a red herring (last paragraphs): [352]
- BHG considers themself the innocent victim here, but that has not been my perception. This most recent contribution by BHG summarizes their tone throughout: the suggestion that in order to demonstrate my willingness to seek consensus I must accept that I have been acting (in ignorance and/or bad faith) in support of a position that has never been anything but a red herring - that is just dressing up 'my way or the highway' in the language of desire for consensus. Agricolae (talk) 18:27, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- Well, here is BHG insisting that I must not have read the policy I cite (which, as BHG states unambiguously above here, is code for me either acting in bad faith or being illiterate), and the characterization of my behavior as
- RfC The problem here seems to be the usual issue of "two cooks in one kitchen" – a disagreement in which neither party is willing to give way. The way to resolve this is to establish a consensus by getting more editors involved using dispute resolution such as WP:THIRD or WP:RfC. This does not seem to have been tried yet at Talk:James Balfour (died 1845)#Claimed_Royal_descent and so escalating to WP:ANI seems premature. Andrew D. (talk) 22:50, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
TBAN and Block Needed
This has been open for a week, and many editors have had the chance to share their perspectives, so it's time to close it. Simply put, there is not a consensus that Andrew Davidson has done anything that warrants a sanction. Some editors clearly feel otherwise but there is not sufficient support for their position to impose one. 28bytes (talk) 03:56, 12 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Andrew Davidson (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This chap, User:Andrew_Davidson, constantly deprods prods without providing a rationale. Policy around this allows this deprodding without explanation, but editors consider this rather rude, as providing the reason for an edit is kinda meat and drink to all of us!
His MO is to find an article that has been prodded, and remove the prod. That's it - nothing more. He clearly does no due diligence checking before deprodding. Normally these articles are slam dunk deletes, the reason for the Prod in the first place is uncontroversial. This is of course the reason for having the PROD process. a simple way of removing uncontroversial rubbish articles.
He has performed this uncollegiate, disruptive trick three times since I complained to him a couple of days ago, and unless stopped will doubtless continue. His response when challenged is to wikilawyer, and never provide a rationale. Please block until this uncooperative fellow agrees to change his ways, or apply a TBAN preventing Davidson editing in any area related to Deletion of articles. (I would also like to see him TBANNED from attending any wikimeetups where he would be able to influence good faith editors to his disruptive behaviour, something that should be strongly discouraged. He appears to do a lot of wikimeetups where the influence of such a bad example should be curbed.)
Rather than provide diffs to his deprods, I have provided links below to entries on his Talk page complaining about this behaviour. At least two of those are since my own complaint a couple of days ago. -
This from January this year.
here from March this year, where the complainant stated "I am well aware that you don't have to explain. I was asking you please to do so instead of being uncollaborative. Your constant resort to lawyering is wearing and disruptive"
topic Two requests here, including my own, and slightly classier wikilawering directed at myself. At least I got his attention, but unfortunately without any positive results.
contains two complaints from the same editor made since my own complaint.
It may also be worth reading this village pump discussion where Davidson was roundly condemned for just this sort of uncollaborativeness.
In summary, stop this editors "IDHT, I know best" behaviour. Thanks. -Roxy, in the middle. wooF 16:59, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- The examples you have come up with are hardly 'slam dunk deletes'. While it would be preferable to explain in an edit summary why deletion via prod was objected to, it's probably safe to assume that the deproder believes the subject may be notable if they don't specify a reason. --Michig (talk) 17:26, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- None of the requested admin actions are going to happen. You're free to WP:AFD nominate any page where a PROD is declined; if Andrew D. doesn't give a rationale there his opinion will be ignored. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:29, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- I had a similar interaction with Andrew regarding List of Batman storylines. His reason for keeping the article in the subsequent AfD made no sense. Matt14451 (talk) 17:32, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- I see you complained here about User:Andrew Davidson's removal here of your PROD here. Was your prod rationale "See Rope" a valid reason for deletion or even any sort of reason at all? Was it unreasonable to remove this prod? Was your reinstatement of the prod here within policy? Why were you reluctant to submit your deletion argument to community scrutiny? What is your view about another editor removing your second prod? Are you satisfied with your editing of this article? Thincat (talk) 17:44, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Roxy the dog, I consider Andrew Davidson to be an extreme inclusionist and sometimes I find him to be a bit irritating. He may feel the same way about me. However, there can be no doubt that he has the best interests of the encyclopedia at heart. He is not obligated to explain why he removes PROD tags. That deletion process is for uncontroversial deletions and if any editor in good standing removes a PROD tag, deletion is by definition controversial. You will not improve your communication with Andrew by dragging him to ANI without good cause. As for your proposal to ban Andrew from attending public Wikimedia events? In a word, absurd. Our deletion processes work best if editors representative of the full range of philosophies from deletionism to inclusionism can participate without being harassed by their opponents. Cullen328Let's discuss it 20:53, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
-
You will not improve your communication with Andrew
- That would not be worthwhile endeavor. You've misidentified which end the failure of communication is coming from. He talks at people, not to them, because he thinks other people are contemptible, and he's figured out a way to irritate people with mass deprods and refusal to communicate. Nobody who remembers what he used to get up to under his Colonel Warden persona could think he's anything but a pompous, dishonest troll. ReykYO! 23:13, 4 November 2018 (UTC)- Andrew's recent comments on my talk page are the exact opposite of what you describe, Reyk, and your comments against him are personal attacks, in my judgment. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:00, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
-
- Roxy the dog, I consider Andrew Davidson to be an extreme inclusionist and sometimes I find him to be a bit irritating. He may feel the same way about me. However, there can be no doubt that he has the best interests of the encyclopedia at heart. He is not obligated to explain why he removes PROD tags. That deletion process is for uncontroversial deletions and if any editor in good standing removes a PROD tag, deletion is by definition controversial. You will not improve your communication with Andrew by dragging him to ANI without good cause. As for your proposal to ban Andrew from attending public Wikimedia events? In a word, absurd. Our deletion processes work best if editors representative of the full range of philosophies from deletionism to inclusionism can participate without being harassed by their opponents. Cullen328Let's discuss it 20:53, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) I have found Andrew's tendency to make counter-policy arguments at AFD to be extremely frustrating, and his tendency to remove PRODs without explanation, apparently so as to prevent the subsequent AFD nomination from preemptively addressing his counter-policy reasoning, is definitely cause for concern. Indeed, when I tried to propose mandating explanations for deprods here, based primarily on my experience with Andrew, I was uniformly opposed with the main argument being essentially "Yeah, that editor's behaviour is problematic, but ANI is the place to deal with individual problem editors; don't change policy just for Andrew" -- in other words, even those who think providing explanations for deprods is not necessary think Andrew specifically should be required to do so. I've also found his tendency to create garbage sub-stubs like the atrocious Water roux troubling; I would have been justified in PRODding that page when I first came across it, as it was complete nonsense with absolutely no basis in the cited "sources", and I have no doubt that he would have deprodded without explanation, forcing me to go through the increasingly bureaucratic mess of AFD, which is made all the more difficult by his wikilawyering and counter-policy arguments (which work well on low-traffic AFDs where it can come down to 2-1 !votes more often than not), so I was left with really no choice but to essentially blank and/or rewrite the whole thing. (I keep a record on my user page of articles other people started but where almost all the content was written by me; I don't want to have to include pages where the article creator -- a problem editor -- left a completely bogus sub-stub in the mainspace without using AFC or the like, and I had to come along and blank/rewrite the whole thing, not to my normal standards but just so it meets the barest standards of inclusion in the encyclopedia. These kinds of messes should take place in Andrew's userspace, not the article space.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:39, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Andrew has been doing this for years, but knows that no-one will ever stop him from doing it (search "Colonel Warden" in the ANI history). It's completely disruptive, but we've never had a consensus to stop him doing it, so he'll carry on doing it. Just another Wikipedia failure, as Reyk mentions above. Black Kite (talk) 23:45, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- for the PROD system to work, we need to people using it, to act in good faith. De-prodding on the principle of inclusionism thwarts the intention of the community in putting the PROD system in place. The principle of PROD is that a) there is a valid reason for deletion and b) nobody is going to care enough to fix it, if that is even possible. Hence, tag, wait, and then delete. This sort of drive-by de-prod is exactly the kind of thing Andrew D does -- that was back in March and per his history there, he never made another edit, and had made none before that. Many of these complaints are like that - Andrew D thwarts the PROD and then community time (our lifeblood) gets wasted, deleting obviously deletable stuff (like the parks, back in January, linked above). The complaints have a hook. User:Cullen328 surely you don't support somebody thwarting the intention of the community? (real question)
- In any case I support TBAN from de-prodding. Gaming the system to thwart the intentions of the community is not OK and it is about time we stopped this behavior. Jytdog (talk) 00:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- The "intentions of the community" are expressed through policies and guidelines, and through broad community discussions where consensus is achieved and the discussion is closed by an uninvolved editor, Jytdog. Please provide links to policies, guidelines and community consensus that justifies sanctions on this editor. A bunch of people bitching and moaning is not enough. Cullen328Let's discuss it 02:24, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Please don't put scare quotes around important things -- the spirit (the intention) of the P&G are what matter. Jytdog (talk) 03:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I used quotation marks only because I was quoting you directly, and for no other reason. Cullen328Let's discuss it 04:59, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- That is clearly disingenuous. No one writes
The "intentions of the community" are expressed through policies and guidelines
"only because [they are] quoting [someone] directly"; those are scare-quotes, and were clearly used dismissively. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:53, 5 November 2018 (UTC) - Your interpretation of my intention is incorrect. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:00, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- That is clearly disingenuous. No one writes
- I used quotation marks only because I was quoting you directly, and for no other reason. Cullen328Let's discuss it 04:59, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Please don't put scare quotes around important things -- the spirit (the intention) of the P&G are what matter. Jytdog (talk) 03:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- The "intentions of the community" are expressed through policies and guidelines, and through broad community discussions where consensus is achieved and the discussion is closed by an uninvolved editor, Jytdog. Please provide links to policies, guidelines and community consensus that justifies sanctions on this editor. A bunch of people bitching and moaning is not enough. Cullen328Let's discuss it 02:24, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Jytdog is talking about the World Beer Cup – a substantial page which we have had for many years (285K accumulated by 152 editors over 11+ years). It's easy to find a good independent source for this such as the Oxford Companion to Beer. Peremptory deletion of this page would not be uncontroversial because the topic is far from hopeless. Andrew D. (talk) 00:50, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's now 7K, not 285K: I've deleted an unsourced and obscenely long list of "Beer awards" that's clearly promotional and likely added by a COI editor. power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:18, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose topic ban unless convincing evidence of Andrew's failure to comply with policies and guidelines is presented. Andrew's position is clear and is stated quite politely. He believes that detailed discussion of specific deprods is neither appropriate nor wise. He believes that kind of discussion should take place either at the article talk page or at AfD, or both. His stance is entirely in line with our deletion policy. Those who think that rationales for deprodding ought to be mandatory are obligated to gain consensus for that. Once you have that consensus, then Andrew must either comply or be subject to editing restrictions at that time, but not now. Cullen328Let's discuss it 02:15, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- he should indeed not be TBANed for not supplying a rationale for de-PRODing. He should be TBANed for abusing the PROD process. The whole purpose of PROD is to get rid of deletable articles that no one cares about. Patrolling PRODs to strip them for the sake of inclusionism has nothing to do with why we created PROD or why we created the easy escape hatch, and nothing to do with building a high quality encyclopedia. Andrew D has shown a severe lack of self-restraint around de-PRODing, wasting a bunch of community time. So - enough already. Jytdog (talk) 03:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- You are correct that PROD is only for articles that no one cares about. No one. If Andrew (or any editor in good standing) cares enough to remove the PROD tag, then someone clearly cares, and then the next step for the tagger is clear: Either drop the matter or take it to AfD. It could not be more simple. Andrew has said that he is willing to discuss these articles at AfD, as part of a community discussion. Cullen328Let's discuss it 05:11, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- actually cares about. That is the spirit of the PROD process. Patrolling PRODs to keep stuff, and stripping the tag from pages you never edited before and never edited again, is gaming the process. I'm trying to articulate why so many people are annoyed with Andrew. This is right down at the core of it - this exploiting every loophole and saying anything and doing anything just to keep stuff. Its not about building a high quality, or even reasonable-quality, encyclopedia. Quality isn't in the picture - it's just about keeping stuff. Which is the wrong aim. Jytdog (talk) 15:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- You are correct that PROD is only for articles that no one cares about. No one. If Andrew (or any editor in good standing) cares enough to remove the PROD tag, then someone clearly cares, and then the next step for the tagger is clear: Either drop the matter or take it to AfD. It could not be more simple. Andrew has said that he is willing to discuss these articles at AfD, as part of a community discussion. Cullen328Let's discuss it 05:11, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I only count 11 deprods in the last 5 weeks. Many if not all of them need to be sent to AfD, IMO, but you could make the argument both ways. I wouldn't TBAN because I still think it's being done in good faith, but issue a warning and request a rationale in the edit summary for each deprod from this user. SportingFlyertalk 03:10, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- he should indeed not be TBANed for not supplying a rationale for de-PRODing. He should be TBANed for abusing the PROD process. The whole purpose of PROD is to get rid of deletable articles that no one cares about. Patrolling PRODs to strip them for the sake of inclusionism has nothing to do with why we created PROD or why we created the easy escape hatch, and nothing to do with building a high quality encyclopedia. Andrew D has shown a severe lack of self-restraint around de-PRODing, wasting a bunch of community time. So - enough already. Jytdog (talk) 03:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support Tban from De prodding - - A IDHT behaviour and indulging in mass deprodding runs despite being requested several times to provide some reason behind the deProd.But, on lines of wot BK had sed, this will lead to nothing; people have a liking for invoking extremal process wonkery even if it is directly contrarian to a collaborative environment esp. whilst dealing with long term editors. ∯WBGconverse 03:30, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support tban from deproding as well. I don't have direct experience with his deprodding activity but I do recall very well the nonsense he posts every time we try to improve how we manage Drafts (G13 expansion for example). It appears Andrew D is intent on making clean up as painful amd slow as possible. Legacypac (talk) 04:32, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I don't often agree with Andrew, but in this case he's frankly 100% correct, and IMO there's absolutely no evidence of disruption here, let alone grounds for a sanction of any kind. This is how PROD is supposed to work. If you don't like it, try to change the process, not ban the people using it. ansh666 04:47, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Comment: Unless there are dozens of diffs showing a pattern of deliberately disruptive de-PRODs or deliberately targeting one editor's PRODs (neither of which has anyone provided), there is no reason for a TBan or a block. PRODs are merely one option for deletion and are a deliberately low bar to decline (no explanation needed). If someone disagrees with a de-PROD, even numerous de-PRODS, all they need do is escalate to CSD or AfD, as desired. It's really very simple. Softlavender (talk) 05:10, 5 November 2018 (UTC)Striking this because dozens if not hundreds of diffs over the years are most likely unavailable because the article in question was subsequently deleted. Softlavender (talk) 09:30, 5 November 2018 (UTC)- @Softlavender: few things on Wikipedia are truly gone forever. I looked at one full year's worth of de-prods in his deleted contribs. If you're curious:
That's about 36 deleted articles, most of which went to AfD. One was not eligible for PROD but got deleted anyway because it was a copyright violation. This is the span of 19 November 2017 through 5 November 2018. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 10:26, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, that proves my point. As Jytdog says, no one but an admin can see those redlink de-PRODs, and your list proves my point that the articles more than likely should have been deleted at the PROD stage, so AD's de-PRODs really are disruptive. Softlavender (talk) 22:03, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose per my below reasoning for the PROD process not mandating a rationale and also for the fact the policy specifically permits any editor to remove a PROD tag. And 36 in a year is not a lot. Fish+Karate 11:35, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
The list above is an evaluation of the PRODs that were removed and the articles are still in the encyclopedia. I looked back at all the deprods back to the beginning of September. Andrew made 42 deprops that have not been deleted. Of those 42, 2 are currently at AFD. An additional 19 were sent to AFD and the discussion is now closed. Results of 10 were keep, 7 redirect (with some including merge) and 2 were no consensus. Of those not sent to AFD, 1 was an invalid PROD, 1 was later redirected and 14 have no action taken. This is compared to the last year of 36 deprods that were later deleted at AFD. I oppose taking away his ability to deprod articles. ~ GB fan 12:32, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose topic ban and oppose block, essentially for the reasons explained by User:Cullen328. There's no policy breach here. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 21:35, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Again, I find it weird that we're talking about whether Andrew is technically violating policy by engaging in behaviour that, by definition, is not a violation of current policy, but is perceived as being disruptive and so is the subject of a ban discussion. It's a truism that a number (I'd guess at least half) of Andrew's AFD !votes have been policy breaches (or ... "advocating for policy breaches", I guess?), and so if he were required to provide rationales for deproddings we can assume a similar proportion of them would be too; the problem is he never does provide rationales, even when specifically requested to do so on his talk page. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:03, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- You find it weird that when trying to impose sanctions on someone, some of us require some evidence of actual policy violation? I find that weird. WP:PROD policy says anyone can remove a PROD for any reason and it does not require any explanation or edit summary. If you want to change that policy then seek a change to the policy - but trying to impose restrictions on one editor that do not apply to anyone else when that editor is not in any way in breach of any policy is just plain wrong in my view. Sure, we sanction editors for disruptive behaviour, but there must be some policy basis to it. And nobody has demonstrated that AD's de-prods are disruptive, as far as I can see - all I can see is "I don't agree with him so he must be stopped". Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:50, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Re-reading this, I missed "I would also like to see him TBANNED from attending any wikimeetups where he would be able to influence good faith editors to his disruptive behaviour"! I obviously Oppose such a disgraceful suggestion - thoughtcrime anyone? Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Again, I find it weird that we're talking about whether Andrew is technically violating policy by engaging in behaviour that, by definition, is not a violation of current policy, but is perceived as being disruptive and so is the subject of a ban discussion. It's a truism that a number (I'd guess at least half) of Andrew's AFD !votes have been policy breaches (or ... "advocating for policy breaches", I guess?), and so if he were required to provide rationales for deproddings we can assume a similar proportion of them would be too; the problem is he never does provide rationales, even when specifically requested to do so on his talk page. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:03, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose t-ban and oppose block - having faced similar issues working at NPP, I can certainly understand the frustration expressed by the OP and those in agreement but I also agree with Cullen and reasons others have given to oppose. Deprodding is a judgment call, and while some may find it to be annoyance, it is neither a policy violation nor is it behavioral disruption to the project. Atsme✍🏻📧 22:25, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- "Deprodding is a judgment call" = bullseye! PROD is specifically and deliberately a very loose judgment call, which means AD is free to use his judgment when evaluating PRODs just as much as anyone else. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose t-ban and oppose block - no policies have been violated. It would certainly lend itself towards collaborative editing if A.D. were to leave a reason, but by policy and years of practice he is not required to. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 22:46, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose t-ban and oppose block per everyone above and below (and per my comments below). –Davey2010Talk 00:29, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose the topic ban and block, of course. I also oppose the suggestion that I should prohibited from attending events such as the London meetup on Sunday, where I shall be happy to discuss the details, especially the World Beer Cup! Here's a recent testimonial, for those who doubt my good faith. Andrew D. (talk) 09:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
Andrew has remotely supported every event that he hasn't been able to attend in person, and gives such warm welcomes and support to new editors. He takes the time to keep up with events, and to patiently and enthusiastically share his expertise on Wikipedia with others. Many new pages would not exist without his support to help new editors who are from communities that have not previously felt welcome to edit until - his contribution to breaking down those barriers is invaluable, and we Wikimedians in the UK are lucky to have him.
- Please explain this?. (When you have explained, I have a follow up question.) -Roxy, in the middle. wooF 16:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'm sorry for posting inside davidsons post there, but he really should sign them. And his testimony (try using that at FTN) is very unreliably sourced. -Roxy, in the middle. wooF 16:33, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- This here is the problem. Roxy, the Prod. wooF 21:26, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose block and topic ban if people don't like what "prod" and "de-prod" represent and its current implementation, fix that instead. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:36, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- I have nommed the page concerned. Let's see if Davidson responds, and how.-Roxy, the Prod.wooF 13:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- FWIW, Andrew's disruption at AFD (as opposed to PROD) has continued while this discussion was ongoing. Here he made a notability argument, listing eight sources apparently found via a quick GBooks search, in an AFD that had nothing to do with deletion, and refusing to retract the claim that WP:PRESERVE applies despite having been notified that the opposite is the case (the article in question is the result of a unilateral, selective, and unattributed merger of several previously existing articles, so PRESERVE would favour cutting it up and restoring the earlier redirect) -- his later comment didn't even acknowledge this. I've found this kind of behaviour to be charactistic of Andrew's AFD activity: he will make whatever bizarre, irrelevant argument he can to !vote "keep", then either refuse to acknowledge when others correct him or double down and get into a long back-and-forth that will probably make a closer's eyes gloss over. I'm not confident anyone will actually do anything about this at this point, since this discussion was opened on the wrong topic: Andrew's behaviour regarding deletion, not just de-prodding, needs correction. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:56, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Stats There's some helpful analysis above by NinjaRobotPirate and GB fan but it's not complete because they covered different timeframes. I've done some further analysis to summarise what's been done over the last year. I reckon that there will have been about 10,000 prods during that time – about 27 per day. Here's my contribution, set in proportion.
estimated total prods for year Nov 2017 – Nov 2018 10,000 Number of prods removed by Andrew D. 165 1.65% of total Number of de-prodded articles deleted 36 22% Number of de-prodded articles not deleted 129 78%
- So we see that, even though I look through the list of all prods, only a small fraction of them are de-prodded. In more than 98% of cases, I pass by on the other side but, in a few cases, I intervene to remove the prod. In about 78% of these controversial cases, the article is not deleted. These numbers seem quite reasonable to me but it would be interesting to compare with some other prod patroller. I'm only aware of one other editor that does this regularly and that's DGG. We don't seem to have heard from him yet so it would be good to get his views. Andrew D. (talk) 13:38, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Perhaps you could explain this?-Roxy, the Prod.wooF 16:54, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, there's also the fact that AFDs are difficult to file to begin with, due to the number of hoops the instructions require noms jump through, and the tendency of editors like Andrew to shoot down AFDs that don't appear to have jumped through those hoops correctly. I must reiterate, Andrew tried to have an AFD speedy closed because an editor with an account finished the nomination for an IP but was himself neutral. Look at any AFD where he cites WP:BEFORE and, unless consensus is unanimous that it was a flimsy nomination (i.e., the facts just happened to align with Andrew's agenda), he's usually just wikilawyering over something that's not at issue (making notability arguments in non-notability-based AFDs, etc.). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:03, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- The speedy keep deletion guideline states
If the nominator indicates that the nomination is procedural in nature, then the nomination is ineligible for speedy keep
, which certainly applies to Ymblanter's procedural nomination. This was a hopelessly incompetent appeal to WP:SK. Fortunately, nobody listened. ReykYO! 08:57, 9 November 2018 (UTC)- The word "procedural" means that one is following a procedure – some sort of established or formal process. That was not the case here as the nominator had just picked up a vague complaint by an IP editor and then decided to take the matter to AfD. In such a case, the editor taking the action should take full responsibility for it. But, the nominator here said that " I have no opinion on the merits of the nomination". This means that they can't have followed the proper procedure described at WP:BEFORE. Q.E.D. Andrew D. (talk) 15:00, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- The speedy keep deletion guideline states
- Yeah, there's also the fact that AFDs are difficult to file to begin with, due to the number of hoops the instructions require noms jump through, and the tendency of editors like Andrew to shoot down AFDs that don't appear to have jumped through those hoops correctly. I must reiterate, Andrew tried to have an AFD speedy closed because an editor with an account finished the nomination for an IP but was himself neutral. Look at any AFD where he cites WP:BEFORE and, unless consensus is unanimous that it was a flimsy nomination (i.e., the facts just happened to align with Andrew's agenda), he's usually just wikilawyering over something that's not at issue (making notability arguments in non-notability-based AFDs, etc.). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:03, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Perhaps you could explain this?-Roxy, the Prod.wooF 16:54, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
- Looking at the statistics and evidence above, it is clear that one of the main problems here is abuse of proposed deletion and/or lack of judgment of those placing prod tags on articles, because when so many deproded articles go to AfD and don't get deleted, the original prods are clearly not well considered. --Michig (talk) 11:32, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
- I would dispute that. Most of the "articles" are one or two sentences long, and serve no purpose to the encyclopedia by being left as "standalone articles" when redirects would be more helpful to our readers. Even redlinks would be better since they can be redirected without anyone disputing that "you can't just redirect an existing article, which is tantamount to deletion, without consensus". However, when they come to AFD invariably the discussion becomes about "notability", without regard for whether having a single-sentence article would be better than having a redirect (see the hundred or so AFDs of sub-stubs created by Starzynka (talk·contribs) earlier this year), and the result is either "no consensus, default to keep" or "there is consensus that the topic is notable, so keep"; sometimes an AFD results in an article being expanded so it's no a longer a useless sub-stub, and sometimes it does not, but in all cases the pages getting deleted would be preferable to leaving them in the mainspace in the state in which they were found. There are also cases like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Azia, where Andrew deprods a fairly obvious copyvio article, it gets brought to AFD, it gets speedy-deleted once I point out the problem, and Andrew complains on the deleting admin's talk page, wikilawyering over ADMINACCT that he was in the right to repeatedly badger SpinningSpark over the issue (sorry, but I only just now remembered that this was another example of a deprod by Andrew, which was clearly disruptive to begin with, and became more disruptive after the AFD, although it wasn't technically covered by the above sub-stub issue). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:26, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's really very simple - if an article wouldn't get deleted at AfD, whether you feel that's right or wrong, it's not suitable for proposed deletion, which is only for articles which are uncontroversial candidates for deletion. --Michig (talk) 10:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Not if the only reason it wouldn't get deleted at AFD is because of Andrew -- and others like him -- making bogus WP:ILI and WP:TDLI arguments. (As an aside, while enjoying the latest episode of RWBY I was reminded of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional currencies (2nd nomination), which is another one where Andrew's behaviour, trying to find any excuse to keep a crap article, was particularly obvious. It just so happened that a few more editors saw the light in that particular discussion.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:46, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's really very simple - if an article wouldn't get deleted at AfD, whether you feel that's right or wrong, it's not suitable for proposed deletion, which is only for articles which are uncontroversial candidates for deletion. --Michig (talk) 10:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- I would dispute that. Most of the "articles" are one or two sentences long, and serve no purpose to the encyclopedia by being left as "standalone articles" when redirects would be more helpful to our readers. Even redlinks would be better since they can be redirected without anyone disputing that "you can't just redirect an existing article, which is tantamount to deletion, without consensus". However, when they come to AFD invariably the discussion becomes about "notability", without regard for whether having a single-sentence article would be better than having a redirect (see the hundred or so AFDs of sub-stubs created by Starzynka (talk·contribs) earlier this year), and the result is either "no consensus, default to keep" or "there is consensus that the topic is notable, so keep"; sometimes an AFD results in an article being expanded so it's no a longer a useless sub-stub, and sometimes it does not, but in all cases the pages getting deleted would be preferable to leaving them in the mainspace in the state in which they were found. There are also cases like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Azia, where Andrew deprods a fairly obvious copyvio article, it gets brought to AFD, it gets speedy-deleted once I point out the problem, and Andrew complains on the deleting admin's talk page, wikilawyering over ADMINACCT that he was in the right to repeatedly badger SpinningSpark over the issue (sorry, but I only just now remembered that this was another example of a deprod by Andrew, which was clearly disruptive to begin with, and became more disruptive after the AFD, although it wasn't technically covered by the above sub-stub issue). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:26, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose block and topic ban 'Deprodding is a judgment call, and while some may find it to be annoyance, it is neither a policy violation nor is it behavioral disruption to the project. Atsme✍🏻📧 22:25, 5 November 2018 (UTC)'. Precisely. Simon Adler (talk) 00:45, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
- I withdraw my request to topic ban Davidson from wikimeetups such as the beer and cosplay in Holborn tomorrow. I have bought my ticket from Yorvik, and I'll ask him to explain that to my face. Any other points to be made, bedsides the obvious one? -Roxy, the Prod. wooF 08:59, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Proposal: Require Andrew Davidson to provide a rationale with each de-PROD
There is no consensus to require Andrew Davidson to provide a rationale with each de-PROD. Stephen 21:53, 6 November 2018 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A number of very experienced editors, including administrators, have had long-term problems with Andrew Davidson's behavior concerning PRODs and his apparent targeting of them merely to remove the PROD whether or not the removal appears warranted in any way to any reasonable person. Providing rationales for de-PRODs is not mandatory, but an administrator can enact a community-based sanction requiring Andrew Davidson to provide one with each de-PROD, if there is consensus for this sanction. Therefore I am proposing it. Softlavender (talk) 05:37, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support as nominator, since the editor's de-PRODding has, over a very long time, been widely viewed as deliberately disruptive. This sanction will not prevent him from de-PRODding, but it will require him to demonstrate good faith by providing a rationale. Softlavender (talk) 05:37, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support as per nom. I think this is a good final step before a topic ban becomes necessary, though I suspect AD will try to game it somehow. Reyk YO! 05:42, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support as per nominator. I suspect the rationales will continue to be along the lines of "prods are for uncontroversial deletions, and this is controversial," as per the talk page. I don't necessarily read bad faith into them, as the synthetic rope deprod was correct, but would strongly recommend either further explanations in the edit summary other than "controversial" or improving the articles which are deprodded, as several of the ones I looked at were completely without references. SportingFlyer talk 05:49, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support --Tarage (talk) 06:07, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support per the smug disruption displayed with one foot in the doorway of a topic ban. Nihlus 06:18, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support but he will likely not provide meaningful rationals Legacypac (talk) 06:37, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- NOTE for closing admin: I recommend that the sanction include a requirement to provide a rationale specific to the article in question, and specifically refuting the PRODer's concerns with specific facts, as opposed to a generic, non-specific rationale. Softlavender (talk) 06:54, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- How would this work if the PRODder's concern is not clear? For example, in the case of synthetic rope, their concern was just "See Rope". What specific fact is expected in such a case? Andrew D. (talk) 08:35, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- The question proves the need. Other editors can clearly see that the PROD placer believes this topic duplicates an existing topic. Legacypac (talk) 08:46, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Andrew Davidson: In my mind, nothing wrong with a (removed prod) (rationale for deletion unclear). That was also the prod removal I'm least concerned about, though. SportingFlyer talk 09:00, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- The question proves the need. Other editors can clearly see that the PROD placer believes this topic duplicates an existing topic. Legacypac (talk) 08:46, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose, there's no policy that mandates a rationale, removing prod tags is not disruptive, just send the article to AFD if the prod is removed. Easy peasy. Fish+Karate 09:13, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Unwarranted, knee-jerk de-PRODs are indeed disruptive, especially if they are willfully done en masse over the years, because they place an enormous burden on the community via clogging AfD with unnecessary AfDs which could have been handled at the PROD stage if warranted. Softlavender (talk) 09:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- An "enormous burden"? Really? PROD is explicitly for uncontroversial deletions that nobody contests. If even one person contests the PROD tag, the article must go to AFD. I am not saying this is the best way to do things, I'm saying that that's the current policy, per Wikipedia:Proposed_deletion#Objecting - "You are strongly encouraged, but not required to also .. explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion, either in the edit summary or on the talk page". If the policy is not reflective of how you feel the proposed deletion policy should work, then work to get the policy changed. Forcing a user to do something that is not mandated by policy, for no real reason other than "I don't like what he is doing at the moment", is not right. To be clear, I would very much support the idea that this policy should say that the removal of PROD tags without a rationale is potentially disruptive and such removals may be reverted, reinstating the tag. But the policy doesn't say that, it explicitly permits removal without rationale. Fish+Karate 10:33, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's not an "enormous" burden. It is a burden. Many of these deprodded articles don't have any references, and no one has touched them since they were deprodded. Adding a rationale is incredibly simple. I agree it should not be mandatory, but I don't see a problem with trying to mitigate a small community burden (11 deprods in 5 weeks isn't that disruptive) with a small individual burden where it's justified. SportingFlyertalk 11:27, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- An "enormous burden"? Really? PROD is explicitly for uncontroversial deletions that nobody contests. If even one person contests the PROD tag, the article must go to AFD. I am not saying this is the best way to do things, I'm saying that that's the current policy, per Wikipedia:Proposed_deletion#Objecting - "You are strongly encouraged, but not required to also .. explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion, either in the edit summary or on the talk page". If the policy is not reflective of how you feel the proposed deletion policy should work, then work to get the policy changed. Forcing a user to do something that is not mandated by policy, for no real reason other than "I don't like what he is doing at the moment", is not right. To be clear, I would very much support the idea that this policy should say that the removal of PROD tags without a rationale is potentially disruptive and such removals may be reverted, reinstating the tag. But the policy doesn't say that, it explicitly permits removal without rationale. Fish+Karate 10:33, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Unwarranted, knee-jerk de-PRODs are indeed disruptive, especially if they are willfully done en masse over the years, because they place an enormous burden on the community via clogging AfD with unnecessary AfDs which could have been handled at the PROD stage if warranted. Softlavender (talk) 09:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Fish and karate: You're right, that is not a policy. I tried to propose it as a policy specifically because of the disruption caused by this one editor, and was met with "Yeah, that is pretty disruptive, but that should be dealt with by an individual sanction, not a change of policy". The whole point of individual editing restrictions is that they are meant to restrict more than the existing policies already restrict everyone, so
there's no policy that mandates [that]
is quite an unusual rationale for opposing a ban proposal. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:48, 5 November 2018 (UTC)- The fact you consider "editing within policy" to be an unusual rationale is more concerning than anything else in this thread. Fish+Karate 11:25, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Umm... all editing restrictions logged at WP:RESTRICT are expansions on policy. If any of them were simply reiterating what policy said, they wouldn't be editing restrictions; they would be policies. Not only is this not an unusual thing for me or any other editor to say, but it's a given; you're not seeming to understand that is far more concerning, let alone your condescending to me as you do above. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:54, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- BTW: I can provide (and have provided elsewhere) lists of Andrew's counter-policy AFD !votes. His forcing other editors to nominate articles for AFD only for him to show up and make such arguments is highly disruptive (hardly "editing within policy"); demanding that he make these arguments up-front so the AFD nom can address them is quite reasonable. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- The fact you consider "editing within policy" to be an unusual rationale is more concerning than anything else in this thread. Fish+Karate 11:25, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Fish and karate: You're right, that is not a policy. I tried to propose it as a policy specifically because of the disruption caused by this one editor, and was met with "Yeah, that is pretty disruptive, but that should be dealt with by an individual sanction, not a change of policy". The whole point of individual editing restrictions is that they are meant to restrict more than the existing policies already restrict everyone, so
- Support Dear. God. Yes. Can we also ping in anyone at the discussion I linked above (namely MelanieN, HighInBC, Barkeep49 and Insertcleverphrasehere) as they were actually, indirectly, the ones to specifically propose this? (I pointed out to Andrew on his talk page that there was a growing consensus, even among those who think "Deprodding should require an explanation" is not a feasible policy, that he specifically should be required to do so anyway, and the OP appears to have noticed that message.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:48, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- BTW, I would also support a TBAN from de-prodding, broadly construed, as well. He should be required to appeal the one before the other. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:50, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Since I was named here I will note that my comments were general and not aimed at Andrew D. Specifically I will (scarily) quote myself that being "considerate" in removing PRODS is the right thing to do. To apply it to this case, 36 dePRODs in the last year, if the correct number, aren't really disruptive to the encyclopedia, but it would be "considerate" if Andrew took the feedback here on board. Even though I agree with Hijiri about deletion discussions more than Andrew, I believe the encyclopedia benefits from us having to live with differing point of views what Wikipedia is and should be. I have to live with Andrew being more of an inclusionist than I think right and he has to live with me being more of a deletionist than he thinks right. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:11, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Barkeep49: FWIW, when Andrew is advocating for the violation of copyright and NOR policy, it goes beyond editors having differing views. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 21:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Hijiri88: But this is a TBAN about PROD and so I confined my thinking and analysis to that. I am guessing I would find a lot to disagree with, and maybe even think over the line, if we started exploring his contributions at AfD. But since that's not the discussion it's not where I went with my thinking. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 21:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, but since a large number of his AFD !votes are counter-policy, we can assume the deprod rationales he refuses to provide even when they are specifically requested are similarly non-compliant. Anyway, I would question whether requiring someone do something each time they engage in a process, but not banning them from engaging in that process, is not really a "TBAN" to begin with: yeah, I advocated for both, but the Softlavender proposal we are discussing here is not really a TBAN. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:07, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Hijiri88: But this is a TBAN about PROD and so I confined my thinking and analysis to that. I am guessing I would find a lot to disagree with, and maybe even think over the line, if we started exploring his contributions at AfD. But since that's not the discussion it's not where I went with my thinking. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 21:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Barkeep49: FWIW, when Andrew is advocating for the violation of copyright and NOR policy, it goes beyond editors having differing views. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 21:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Since I was named here I will note that my comments were general and not aimed at Andrew D. Specifically I will (scarily) quote myself that being "considerate" in removing PRODS is the right thing to do. To apply it to this case, 36 dePRODs in the last year, if the correct number, aren't really disruptive to the encyclopedia, but it would be "considerate" if Andrew took the feedback here on board. Even though I agree with Hijiri about deletion discussions more than Andrew, I believe the encyclopedia benefits from us having to live with differing point of views what Wikipedia is and should be. I have to live with Andrew being more of an inclusionist than I think right and he has to live with me being more of a deletionist than he thinks right. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:11, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose As per above, he does not do a bad job of deprodding articles. Would it help editors to understand why the article was deprodded, yes, but that is across the board. I see no evidence that his deprodding is disruptive or any reason we need to put additional requirements on him that we don't put on the community. ~ GB fan 12:36, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @GB fan: Pointing out that some of his deprods are not all that bad (but neither are they all that good) doesn't actually invalidate the claim that a lot of his deprods are bad. Additionally, requiring him to provide a rationale would not actually affect the not-bad ones (he could just provide the good rationale) -- it would only prevent him from doing so when he doesn't have a valid argument, and would make it possible for either (a) the editor responsible for the prod to reconsider in light of a valid argument or (b) the subsequent AFD nomination to address his arguments. Given that Andrew went to the trouble to type out (multiple) comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dark Lady (character), we can assume he would have deprodded it if ZXCVBNM had prodded the page rather than going straight to AFD; if Andrew had been required to provide a rationale, and his rationale was, like his AFD !vote, "I think we should be allowed WP:NOR in cases like this", then the nominator could have pointed out the absurdity of that argument in advance, and we could have avoided a lot of trouble. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:47, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I can not support forcing a single individual to explain their DEPRODs unless there is clear evidence that their DEPRODS are disruptive. 42 DEPRODS in the last <2.5 months that are still in the encyclopedia compared to 36 that have been deleted in the last year in my mind is not disruptive. Should he reevaluate what he deprods, yes. Would it help if he adjusts his criteria for deprodding a little, yes. Do I see enough to force him to provide an explanation, no. On top of that what explanation would be good enough before his deprod is allowed to stand? Would it be acceptable for him to say, "I think there is enough here that this article needs to be discussed at AFD before being deleted"? ~ GB fan 12:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- That depends. Clearly, with any article that I don't think should be deleted, any rationale that aligned with my personal reason for believing as much would be sufficient. I guess some valid reasons were probably presented in those AFDs you referred to that resulted in keeps? My experience with Andrew's detailed AFD arguments is that they are very poor and often show a poor understanding of Wikipedia policy, the topics in question, or both (the above-linked "Dark Lady", Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tanka prose, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Korean influence on Japanese culture and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of General Caste in Sikhism (2nd nomination) are among the worst examples that come to mind; Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/University of the West Indies (Jamaica) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Foodflation were bad for a completely different reason); I think allowing such an editor to unilaterally overrule a valid means of deletion without even providing any explanation is problematic; requiring him to make his argument up-front so an AFD nominator can evaluate it in their nomination, rather than just forcing the nominator to wonder to themselves whether Andrew actually had a valid reason, would be better. Andrew's deprods don't come with a notice "Hey, this guy might have a valid point, or he might just be reverting you because he thinks he can get away with it"; most editors will just assume the former, which is a whole lot of extra work. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I can not support forcing a single individual to explain their DEPRODs unless there is clear evidence that their DEPRODS are disruptive. 42 DEPRODS in the last <2.5 months that are still in the encyclopedia compared to 36 that have been deleted in the last year in my mind is not disruptive. Should he reevaluate what he deprods, yes. Would it help if he adjusts his criteria for deprodding a little, yes. Do I see enough to force him to provide an explanation, no. On top of that what explanation would be good enough before his deprod is allowed to stand? Would it be acceptable for him to say, "I think there is enough here that this article needs to be discussed at AFD before being deleted"? ~ GB fan 12:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @GB fan: Pointing out that some of his deprods are not all that bad (but neither are they all that good) doesn't actually invalidate the claim that a lot of his deprods are bad. Additionally, requiring him to provide a rationale would not actually affect the not-bad ones (he could just provide the good rationale) -- it would only prevent him from doing so when he doesn't have a valid argument, and would make it possible for either (a) the editor responsible for the prod to reconsider in light of a valid argument or (b) the subsequent AFD nomination to address his arguments. Given that Andrew went to the trouble to type out (multiple) comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dark Lady (character), we can assume he would have deprodded it if ZXCVBNM had prodded the page rather than going straight to AFD; if Andrew had been required to provide a rationale, and his rationale was, like his AFD !vote, "I think we should be allowed WP:NOR in cases like this", then the nominator could have pointed out the absurdity of that argument in advance, and we could have avoided a lot of trouble. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:47, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support the proposal that any "Deprodding should require an explanation" even though it is not an existing policy. The table of DePRODs is overwhelming. And appears to me as a blatant misuse of DePROD policies. We are simply adding unnecessary more work for the volunteers with allowing such behavior. I would also support a TBAN from de-prodding, broadly construed --DBigXrayᗙ 13:02, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose a pointless exercise. Andrew Davidson will simply add "covered in multiple published sources, including [YOUR BOOK HERE]" which is the usual opener at the myriad AFDs that fall out of these de-prods. Mandating he does the work he would do, just a few minutes or hours sooner, will not stop the de-prodding, and will not stop the frustration. 100% guaranteed. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:25, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- The Rambling Man you have explained why this will possibly fail. May we know what is the proposal you feel might work here ? Obviously if the above measures fail to achieve the intended purpose of reducing the number of frivolous dePRODs, then more stricter actions may be proposed. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:36, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I can't speak for TRM but my proposal would be to either get consensus to change the policy to mandate a reason for de-prodding, or recognise that 36 de-prods in a year is not disruptive, leave it be, and find something better to do. Fish+Karate 13:46, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oh, there's no "possibly" about it. This is a non-starter. And I'm afraid "frivolous" is in the eye of the beholder. I don't think Andrew believes his actions to be frivolous in any way, and that the small number of additional AFDs generated in the big scheme of things is really minuscule. This, I'm afraid, appears to be a very large waste of community time. The basic principle of "prod" is to blame, that should anyone for any reason decide they disagree with it, it makes it controversial, and hence prod no longer applies. Just changing the rules for one editor who can simply bypass the change by adding the first line of the AFD in his justification for the removal of the prod is going to achieve nothing at all. I think it'd be better to have spent all this time and energy working on articles rather than working on ways to stop a near-trivial number of puportedly frivolous AFDs being created. If de-prodding has saved one or more articles from deletion, then I suspect that somewhat validates Andrew's occasional actions. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:47, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I see so many people saying there is a large number of deprods that shouldn't have been done. What I don't see is people actually supporting that with data. Looking at the information above there were 36 of their deprods that were deleted at AFD or speedy deleted in the last year. There are also 42 of their deprods from the last 2+ months that are still in the encyclopedia, that includes 19 that survived an AFD. If that time frame is typical of a year for Andrew, he would have around 220 deprods that are still in the encyclopedia with around a 100 of those that survived AFD. This tells me there are more frivolous PRODs then there are DEPRODs. ~ GB fan 13:52, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- This, I'm afraid, appears to be a very large waste of community time.
- Yep. And it's Andrew D. doing the time wasting. --CaltonTalk 22:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- No, it's the usual drama mongers. This whole set of approaches is doomed, yet you're all racking up KB of chat, far more wasteful than anything Andrew Davidson has done, and I'm assuming good faith that he's doing it for reasons he believes in, while this is mainly a witch hunt designed to punish someone's extreme (but still legitimate) viewpoint who still operate within guidelines and policies. Some here should know better. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- To be fair, if I'm to be included among "the usual drama mongers", the reason is that I've been extremely busy in real life for the last month or so, have only come on to Wikipedia to deal with the affairs of the day that are kind of "limited time events", and have been unable to devote time to building articles. (I posted on WT:WAM before any of this came up that I would hardly even be able to participate this year, let alone judge.) I'm a little angry at the OP for, like the OP of the AN thread in June, picking a really stupid moment to open this discussion, and not consulting with me in advance as to the best way to go about it. If nothing comes of this thread, it'll be as much the fault of careless editors who agree with me that something needs to be done about Andrew but did so in an extremely sloppy manner, and if that happens there'll probably be an informal moratorium on drahma-board threads on Andrew for the next few months. He really needs a TBAN from article deletion, broadly construed, and I believe I've got evidence that would convince the community that this is the case, but it's impossible to present it when something like this keeps happening every few months and undercutting it. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:27, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- I think you're getting too involved with this. This is really not a big deal. It's a shame that Andrew's editing style doesn't conform to your expectations, or those of many other editors (myself included) but this pitchfork-wielding approach is counter-productive and provides precisely zero end to the drama. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:29, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- To be fair, if I'm to be included among "the usual drama mongers", the reason is that I've been extremely busy in real life for the last month or so, have only come on to Wikipedia to deal with the affairs of the day that are kind of "limited time events", and have been unable to devote time to building articles. (I posted on WT:WAM before any of this came up that I would hardly even be able to participate this year, let alone judge.) I'm a little angry at the OP for, like the OP of the AN thread in June, picking a really stupid moment to open this discussion, and not consulting with me in advance as to the best way to go about it. If nothing comes of this thread, it'll be as much the fault of careless editors who agree with me that something needs to be done about Andrew but did so in an extremely sloppy manner, and if that happens there'll probably be an informal moratorium on drahma-board threads on Andrew for the next few months. He really needs a TBAN from article deletion, broadly construed, and I believe I've got evidence that would convince the community that this is the case, but it's impossible to present it when something like this keeps happening every few months and undercutting it. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:27, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- No, it's the usual drama mongers. This whole set of approaches is doomed, yet you're all racking up KB of chat, far more wasteful than anything Andrew Davidson has done, and I'm assuming good faith that he's doing it for reasons he believes in, while this is mainly a witch hunt designed to punish someone's extreme (but still legitimate) viewpoint who still operate within guidelines and policies. Some here should know better. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- The Rambling Man you have explained why this will possibly fail. May we know what is the proposal you feel might work here ? Obviously if the above measures fail to achieve the intended purpose of reducing the number of frivolous dePRODs, then more stricter actions may be proposed. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:36, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose (edit conflict × 5) rationale requirement but support broad topic ban from PROD (may not PROD or dePROD any article for any reason, may not request REFUND of a PRODded article, and may not comment on the PROD process anywhere on Wikipedia), per evidence of a problem causing widespread editing grief, and per those who have said that AD would just game a requirement to provide rationales by providing generic rationales to satisfy the requirement and continue the disruptive behaviour. It's fairly obvious that AD is not dePRODding articles because he finds the individual deletion proposals controversial but because he objects to PROD in general (see the third bullet here) and is bringing the controversy to deletions which are otherwise uncontroversial. That's pretty much the definition of disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. As for requiring rationales generally, Roxy linked to where we had that discussion just a bit more than a month ago and it was soundly rejected; I see later in the same discussion it's been proposed again, and is being just as soundly rejected. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support - I don't think the PROD policy was designed for wholesale DEPRODing without rationale to the point of disruption. We need to be careful not to live or die on what policy says.--WaltCip (talk) 14:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose we currently have an open RFC about this at WP:VPP, there's no reason to apply it only to Andrew D. Well, there is one reason, which is that people find him generally annoying. But there are many things he does that are more annoying than dePROD without a reason, and several of the support voters are also generally annoying. power~enwiki (π, ν) 15:18, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment -- this is, in my view, a distraction from the key issue, and too easily game-able. We should just TBAN and be done with it. Jytdog (talk) 15:40, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support - this mass deprodding is gaming the system and essentially enforcing a policy consensus of one. It is deliberate provocation of other editors, and It needs to stop. Unfortunately, I agree with Jytdog, that it is possible the editor will just scoff at this and provide a meaningless caption to satisfy these requirements. If so, we'll be back here to discuss a TBAN. Nevertheless, this at least gives the opportunity to show good faith!Jacona (talk) 16:04, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose No policy rationale or such egregious disruption for either sanction. ——SerialNumber54129 16:08, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Support Clearly, his behavior is bad faith disruption, it seems clear his only goal is to game the system to disrupt the PROD process maximally. That's hardly a useful behavior at Wikipedia. The opposes do note there is no policy forcing him to do so, but at some point we need to look at WP:GAME and look at the clear intent of his actions. --Jayron32 16:13, 5 November 2018 (UTC)- Oppose per opposers. Prodding is easy come, easy go. The rationales provided by many heavy prodders are often nonsense, and this would just get similar vague/standard rationales from AD. The statistics above show his deprods are kept at AFD far too often to justify personal measures. Johnbod (talk) 16:43, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support I guess but a topic ban makes more sense. This needs to say "a rationale backed up by multiple reliable sources" or something like that, in order to be meaningful. Otherwise, a bad rationale or simple rationale like "deprodded, he's notable" is still a rationale. A better answer is to have a complete topic ban rather than to try to invent a rule to solve the problem. --B (talk) 16:47, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose although I have a nearly opposite view to Andrew D about how much should be gotten rid of and how much should be retained. I am in general a deletionist, and I have been rebuked for PRODding unsourced articles without doing a BEFORE search to determine whether sources exist. However, if Andrew D wants to make a deletion controversial (that is, not non-controversial) just because he wants to make it controversial, so be it. Anyone whose PROD is deprodded can always take it to AFD. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:27, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- This editor is not tuned in to the expectations of the community. A scroll through their votes at AfD [353] shows they almost always vote Keep or Speedy Keep (with scores of pages deleted after these votes) and very rarely vote Delete (and a surprising number of those votes are on pages which end up kept). Therefore it is hard to trust their ability to determine a correct or incorrect PROD. Legacypac (talk) 19:04, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- The problem here isn't whether the deproddings are correct. It's that they're perceived as being done in bad faith, with an aim to deliberately damage the deletion process rather than out of any desire to see the articles kept on their own merits. Voluntarily accepting this restriction would go a long ways toward showing that perception is wrong. Having it involuntarily imposed and then getting blocked when some trigger-happy admin inevitably considers a deprodding reason frivolous (complete with unblocking, wheel-warring, 100-kiloword ANI shitstorm, and arbcom case), or escaping that involuntarily imposition when so such a large percentage of the opposition is based in ruleslawyering, is going to prove just the opposite. —Cryptic 19:36, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I think that's a discredit to Andrew. I'm hardly his number one superfan but he's an out-and-out inclusionist and never fails to put forward some kind of argument at every AFD he's caused to exist through de-prodding. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:46, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support. Rather than rob the community of its time discussing unnecessary AFDs, I would like to see Andrew take the necessary time to outline a rationale for every de-prod. Hopefully, a positive side effect will be that community time is also reduced in discussing Andrew's behavior. Binksternet (talk) 19:48, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- It'll just be a touchpaper for more drama when, suddenly, an enthusiastic-yet-useless admin decides that one of Andrew's "rationales" is insufficient, and bang, here we'll be again. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:50, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose per my comments in the section above, and per Fish+Karate, The Rambling Man, GB fan, Johnbod and power~enwiki. Those supporting this restriction have failed to produce evidence of significant disruption, and discussion of various AfD debates has nothing to do with deprodding. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 19:54, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose an imposition that is not required by Wikipedia policy. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 21:33, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- user:Softlavender would you please withdraw this and close it? It has no chance of gaining consensus, and ideally folks will comment on the tban which is the open question. thx Jytdog (talk) 21:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- No, because it has wide support (13 Support, 9 Oppose thus far), and enough long-term editors and admins have had problems with AD's behavior that the overall situation is likely to go to ArbCom down the line if a solution isn't reached, and this is the simplest and most supported solution at present. Softlavender (talk) 22:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Jytdog whether you agree or disagree with chances of this proposal, enough people have already supported this to merit a closure by an uninvolved admin. --DBigXrayᗙ 21:58, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Withdraw a proposal that is currently passing by several votes? Legacypac (talk) 22:04, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure no admin will enact the proposal without a much stronger consensus. As I post this, there are 15 supports to 15 opposes. I'd hardly count that as solid consensus. --Blackmane (talk) 01:04, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- If you'll forgive the reminder, it's not a vote, and so it can not be "passing" based on a simple head count. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:03, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Withdraw a proposal that is currently passing by several votes? Legacypac (talk) 22:04, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Jytdog whether you agree or disagree with chances of this proposal, enough people have already supported this to merit a closure by an uninvolved admin. --DBigXrayᗙ 21:58, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support topic ban, with Support providing genuine rationales as an alternate. And spare me the "not required by Wikipedia policy" garbage: policy evolves from practice on Wikipedia and always has. --Calton Talk 22:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support - This is a reasonable expectation for anyone de-PRODing, let alone someone doing it on a large scale. We're not mind readers. If someone wants to second guess other editors, they owe at least a minimal explanation. - MrX 🖋 22:24, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose isn't this the whole point of PROD? If the community wants the policy changed, then change the policy Samir 22:31, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose - WP:PROD doesn't require a rationale. The policy would have to be changed first, would it not? Perhaps the latter should be a serious consideration so we're all on the same page and not admonishing a productive editor for simply following policy. Atsme✍🏻📧 22:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- You seem to be missing the point, since the discussion here is not about changing standard practice, it's about whether this editor's behavioor, in particular, may merit a requirement that other editors do not have to follow. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:36, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Atsme: Do you mean that the policy page doesn't requiring deprodders give a reason? My understanding is that PROD does require a reason but DEPROD does not. However, Andrew's deprodding is disruptive. By definition, editing restrictions are not simple reiterations of what is mandated by policy, but expansions thereof. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:44, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- @BMK - I wasn't aware we had the authority to overrule policy here at AN/I. @Hijiri88 - I should have been more specific in that the policy WP:PROD#Objecting, editors are "strongly encouraged, but not required, to also: Explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion, either in the edit summary or on the talk page. (and yada yada)." I'm of the mind that AN/I doesn't truly represent a fair and balanced "community discussion" since there are no notices that go out to the community that such actions are even being discussed. Doing it this way gives a handful of editors far too much authority in the decision making process, and would include editors who were not elected based on the trust factor of the community after enduring an RfA. Does that make sense? Atsme✍🏻📧 23:13, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- If a policy says that editors are "strongly encouraged but not required" to do X, and an editor's behavior is problematic in that regard, then requiring them to do X is not "overruling policy" any more than blocking an IP is "overruling" the policy that IPs are allowed to edit. Further, your objection to this being discussed at AN/I makes little sense, because it (in addition to AN) is the venue in which sanctions such as this are always discussed. No wider community advertisement is necessary, because no fundamental change in policy is being considered, only a behavioral sanction for a single editor. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:19, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- That's cool, and I respect your opinion, but it should also probably be noted that this ANI thread is a spin-off of a "discussion" (really a careful warning being followed by "I don't care I'm not listening lalalalala") that took place on Andrew's talk page, which spun out of a discussion on VPP, where the proposal to amend policy to require a rationale was shot down specifically because, while Andrew's deprodding is disruptive, it needs to be dealt with by means of individual sanctions, not changes to policy; and AN/ANI is the place to discuss individual sanctions. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:13, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @BMK - I wasn't aware we had the authority to overrule policy here at AN/I. @Hijiri88 - I should have been more specific in that the policy WP:PROD#Objecting, editors are "strongly encouraged, but not required, to also: Explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion, either in the edit summary or on the talk page. (and yada yada)." I'm of the mind that AN/I doesn't truly represent a fair and balanced "community discussion" since there are no notices that go out to the community that such actions are even being discussed. Doing it this way gives a handful of editors far too much authority in the decision making process, and would include editors who were not elected based on the trust factor of the community after enduring an RfA. Does that make sense? Atsme✍🏻📧 23:13, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose per everyone above but mainly per TRM - I 110% disagree with Andrews deprods especially when there's no reason provided ... however (and no disrespect to Andrew) but it's not hard to make a bullshit reason to deprod .... which if he started doing he's still going to end up back here, I oppose any sort of block, topic ban or sanction. –Davey2010Talk 00:27, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man and Davey2010: Yeah, but if Andrew was forced to provide a terrible argument up-front, that would make opening the AFD a lot easier, as noms would not need to consider whether Andrew might have a decent rationale (he sometimes does -- I personally have no problem with this edit). Yeah, they could ask him, and when the answer is "I don't care" they can reasonably assume he doesn't have one and fire ahead with the AFD anyway, but it would be better if he was subject to an individual restriction requiring him to be more open about his lack of a good reason, no? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:13, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- No, it doesn't work that way. And as I've already said, this is just transferring the drama to a time when Andrew either forgets or provides something which a trigger-happy lame admin considers block-worthy. None of this is useful, and as many have said before and since, this isn't exactly one of Wikipedia's big issues. The effort wasted here now by far exceeds that which was required to deal with the last year's worth of AFDs that have come out of the de-prods. And given the fervour to see Andrew punished, this is just the beginning. Tragic misdirection of effort. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:43, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
this isn't exactly one of Wikipedia's big issues
Andrew's disruption was basically the only reason Korean influence on Japanese culture survived AFD; the shitstorm that occurred in the fallout therefrom played a key part in (CurtisNaito's ridiculous harassment of me at) the Hijiri88/Catflap08 ArbCom case. An editor "in good standing" who is going around taking every opportunity he can to undermine one of our project's core processes (and all of our core policies while he's at it) is definitely more of a cause for concern that most of the stuff that gets brought up on this page. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:08, 6 November 2018 (UTC)- I'm afraid what you're describing is the classic "drop in the ocean". Wikipedia has more than six million articles. One or two disagreements over a handful of arguments per year is to be expected. If you think Andrew himself is deliberately disrupting Wikipedia then you should be seeking a permanent ban, not some kind of half-arsed ill-thought-out semi-solution which is ineffectual and will result in simply more drama. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:27, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- No, it doesn't work that way. And as I've already said, this is just transferring the drama to a time when Andrew either forgets or provides something which a trigger-happy lame admin considers block-worthy. None of this is useful, and as many have said before and since, this isn't exactly one of Wikipedia's big issues. The effort wasted here now by far exceeds that which was required to deal with the last year's worth of AFDs that have come out of the de-prods. And given the fervour to see Andrew punished, this is just the beginning. Tragic misdirection of effort. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:43, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man and Davey2010: Yeah, but if Andrew was forced to provide a terrible argument up-front, that would make opening the AFD a lot easier, as noms would not need to consider whether Andrew might have a decent rationale (he sometimes does -- I personally have no problem with this edit). Yeah, they could ask him, and when the answer is "I don't care" they can reasonably assume he doesn't have one and fire ahead with the AFD anyway, but it would be better if he was subject to an individual restriction requiring him to be more open about his lack of a good reason, no? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:13, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose Andrew can be a pain, but are we really having this discussion over 36 deprods? I'm a lot more worried about material that gets deleted via the PROD process without anyone really having done a decent BEFORE check. That material is almost always gone at that point. A bad deprod just results in an AfD. Now, if those numbers went up, I'd have a very different opinion. But it does look like a fair percent of his deprods end up making it through AfD. As long as that's at least 15% (and if I understand, he's well above that) I'd say he's doing us a service. Hobit (talk) 00:31, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Hobit: The 36 deprods is the tip of the iceberg. It's his disruptive comments at AFD that are the real problem. However, while dealing with the AFD comments probably also needs to be done, it's particularly problematic when we grant a user with such a low opinion of our content policies (and such a poor ability to cite them correctly when required to) the authority to unilaterally shut down a valid deletion process without even citing a policy. It's incremental: recently (since this AN discussion?) he appears to (forgive me if I'm wrong?) have shifted (relatively speaking) away from direct AFD participation, in favour of deprodding; this allows him to keep a lot more of his terrible keep arguments (see the Dark Lady AFD linked above) to himself, but he really shouldn't be allowed to do that given his record. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:13, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Can you clarify his record? Of the articles he's deprodded in the last X time period (month, 3 months, year, take your pick) how many of them weren't deleted at AfD? 20%? 40%? I don't think there is a way for me to tell as a non-admin, and I'm not clear we know based on the discussion above. Help? Hobit (talk) 04:15, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Me neither. My problem is more with his comments at AFD: they are often ridiculously out of line with policy. If he were required to provide a rationale for deprodding, then he could be cut off at the pass with an AFD nom that points out how ridiculous his rationale was. There's a serious problem with articles he defends not getting deleted at AFD when they should be: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Korean influence on Japanese culture is perhaps the worst single case where, had he not shown up and made a bogus argument that looked educated to anyone who didn't read it carefully enough, the two or three others who !voted keep "per Andrew" may not have done so (yes, ideally they should have actually read his comments carefully enough to realize they were gibberish, but that doesn't make his original posting of gibberish any less disruptive). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:53, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- My last comment to you, Hijiri88, on this thread, as I don't want to be perceived as badgering you, but if you consider the closure of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Korean influence on Japanese culture as "no consensus" to be incorrect - and here I can see your point, I would have closed it as delete - then we have a process to deal with this, which you could have started in much less time and using far fewer bytes then you've expended on complaining about the aforementioned AFD. Fish+Karate 10:44, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Me neither. My problem is more with his comments at AFD: they are often ridiculously out of line with policy. If he were required to provide a rationale for deprodding, then he could be cut off at the pass with an AFD nom that points out how ridiculous his rationale was. There's a serious problem with articles he defends not getting deleted at AFD when they should be: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Korean influence on Japanese culture is perhaps the worst single case where, had he not shown up and made a bogus argument that looked educated to anyone who didn't read it carefully enough, the two or three others who !voted keep "per Andrew" may not have done so (yes, ideally they should have actually read his comments carefully enough to realize they were gibberish, but that doesn't make his original posting of gibberish any less disruptive). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:53, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Can you clarify his record? Of the articles he's deprodded in the last X time period (month, 3 months, year, take your pick) how many of them weren't deleted at AfD? 20%? 40%? I don't think there is a way for me to tell as a non-admin, and I'm not clear we know based on the discussion above. Help? Hobit (talk) 04:15, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Hobit: The 36 deprods is the tip of the iceberg. It's his disruptive comments at AFD that are the real problem. However, while dealing with the AFD comments probably also needs to be done, it's particularly problematic when we grant a user with such a low opinion of our content policies (and such a poor ability to cite them correctly when required to) the authority to unilaterally shut down a valid deletion process without even citing a policy. It's incremental: recently (since this AN discussion?) he appears to (forgive me if I'm wrong?) have shifted (relatively speaking) away from direct AFD participation, in favour of deprodding; this allows him to keep a lot more of his terrible keep arguments (see the Dark Lady AFD linked above) to himself, but he really shouldn't be allowed to do that given his record. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:13, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose per my comments in the above section. ansh666 00:49, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose The community already decided that no comment is necessary when declining PRODs. That's the policy, like it or not. Drive-by PRODs should not expect much respect. Hawkeye7(discuss) 00:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7: Could you link to that discussion? I linked to a discussion where (a small portion of) the community decided that, but also decided that requiring individual editors whose deprods are disruptive to provide rationales up-front was valid. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:13, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 92#Require explanation before removing a PROD tag was the one I was thinking of (after Wikipedia talk:Proposed deletion/Archive 13#Should a reason be required when removing a PROD tag?) But I'm sure the old hands can remember further back. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:32, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Hawkeye7: Could you link to that discussion? I linked to a discussion where (a small portion of) the community decided that, but also decided that requiring individual editors whose deprods are disruptive to provide rationales up-front was valid. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:13, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Comment only . I oppose this proposal, but thank Soft Lavender. We must remember that Davidson is an expert wikilawyer, and would inevitably find wiggle room. He has managed to do a Joe at the community for all this time, I see no reason to think that a behavioural sanction would work. At least TBAN please, though I see no groundswell of feeling supporting a block, and would withdraw that request if asked. -Roxy, in the middle. wooF 02:51, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Support required a PROD-removal reason being longer than the PRODer's "reason for proposed deletion". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:21, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose Although a rational might be nice, removal of a PROD implies that the removing editor believes that the PROD is not uncontroversial. --I am One of Many (talk) 04:41, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @I am One of Many: But what if it's only controversial because Andrew doesn't like article deletion and is working to undermine our deletion processes? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:53, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Please can you provide evidence of this undermining, as this would change my view on the matter. I assume there is evidence, or you would not be making such an accusation. Fish+Karate 10:24, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @Fish and karate: At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Foodflation he requested the discussion be speedy-closed because the OP completed the nomination in someone else's stead. At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Korean influence on Japanese culture, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tanka prose and a bunch of Indian ones whose name escape me at the moment (...castes in Sikhism...? User:Sitush would remember) he feigned a degree of familiarity with highly technical academic fields and argued against editors who had actually read and understand the sources he claimed to have read, with the effect and apparent intent of confusing other outside !voters and closers. His argument at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of giant animals in fiction, despite him repeatedly doubling down on it in the face of correction by more knowledgeable editors, was gibberish. Here he defended a serial plagiarist who was casually questioning other users' (mine at the time, but there were others) sanity, based apparently on the perception of said user being on his "side" in the area of article deletion. Need I go on? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:19, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Please provide evidence, without which this is a violation WP:NPA. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:26, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's always been my understandgng that we are not required to provide the same evidence for the same claims multiple times in the same thread. The "Dark Lady", "Foodflation", "Korean influence" and "Tanka prose" AFDs should be evidence enough. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:19, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's always been my understanding that if we wish to invoke allegations about other people's motives, we need to get it passed by consensus based on evaluated evidence rather than just on our own personal deductions. Unproven whatiffery about another editor's motives has no part to play in discussions like this, and it merely reflects badly on the person using it. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:04, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- It's always been my understandgng that we are not required to provide the same evidence for the same claims multiple times in the same thread. The "Dark Lady", "Foodflation", "Korean influence" and "Tanka prose" AFDs should be evidence enough. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:19, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Please can you provide evidence of this undermining, as this would change my view on the matter. I assume there is evidence, or you would not be making such an accusation. Fish+Karate 10:24, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- @I am One of Many: But what if it's only controversial because Andrew doesn't like article deletion and is working to undermine our deletion processes? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:53, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose I'm a proposed deletion patroller and it may help to explain the details of what this means. When someone places a prod tag, typically using Twinkle, this places the article in question into the category All articles proposed for deletion. I review the contents of this category every day or two. It usually contains about 1-200 articles. It would be quite time-consuming to look at each of them so I scan the article titles, looking for topics which I recognise or which look promising. I then drill down on those, checking out the content, history, sources and so forth. If the topic seems to have merit then I remove the proposed deletion tag and update the talk page with relevant templates such as {{Friendly search suggestions}} and {{Old prod full}}. My edit summaries are usually brief and focus on what has been done in the edits. I don't get into the reasons for removing the prod because there isn't space and, per WP:REVTALK, we should "Avoid using edit summaries to carry on debates or negotiation over the content ... This creates an atmosphere where the only way to carry on discussion is to revert other editors!". If there's some discussion on the talk page then I might add to it – see Jazz in Africa for a recent example. Note that, in that case, the nominator has replaced the prod template even though the template states emphatically that this should not be done, "If this template is removed, do not replace it." This seems to be the main problem with the prod process -- Twinkle makes it easy for inexperienced editors to place the template without reading it or understanding it. They don't tend to follow the process described at WP:BEFORE because Twinkle doesn't encourage or support this. Twinkle also doesn't provide any support for removal of the prod tag or any of the suggested steps, which all have to be done manually. If people want a better process and outcome, then the tools like Twinkle should be enhanced to facilitate best practice. Until then, I can try doing more to address the concerns above but should be free to explore options without an onerous sanction tying my hands. Per WP:NOTREQUIRED, we should "Focus on improving the encyclopedia itself, rather than demanding more from other Wikipedians." Andrew D. (talk) 09:32, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Neither Andrew Davidson nor Colonel Warden is listed as a member of that project, and indeed hardly anyone has listed themselves in close to a decade, so claiming to be a member of a practically-defunct WikiProject as a defense against sanctions is ... questionable. Additionally, in virtually all of the deprods I've seen you do, the article contains almost no "content" or "history", and no "sources", so it seems like the "and so forth" accounts for virtually your entire process when it comes to deciding whether to deprod; could you elaborate on what it entails? Anyway, you definitely were not "focused on improving the encyclopedia itself" when you left that garbage [[water roux" article in the mainspace for someone else to clean up or delete, and when I asked for an explanation of why you had created more work for meyou ignored the question. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:49, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Where did he say he was a member of the project? He said he was a proposed deletion patroller, this is someone who patrols proposed deletions, which clearly he is. Fish+Karate 10:24, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- (ec) I have had the relevant userbox for many years: {{User wikipedia/PROD Patrol}}. This puts its users into the category WikiProject proposed deletion patrollers. The project page should be updated to use the category rather than having a separate list but I suppose that, like many project pages, it has been neglected. Perhaps the project should be revived to review how it's doing and get the patrollers to compare notes. Other people have been doing similar work for projects like the new page patrol but it seems that it's quite a chore to keep these things going. Andrew D. (talk) 10:32, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- (ec×3) I'm afraid that Hijiri88 is now getting a little too badgery for this discussion. Time to let it go, this will close with no action of any kind, and life will go on. I suggest similar tomes of effort are driven towards articles and main page quality instead of this trivia. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:36, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- (ec) I have had the relevant userbox for many years: {{User wikipedia/PROD Patrol}}. This puts its users into the category WikiProject proposed deletion patrollers. The project page should be updated to use the category rather than having a separate list but I suppose that, like many project pages, it has been neglected. Perhaps the project should be revived to review how it's doing and get the patrollers to compare notes. Other people have been doing similar work for projects like the new page patrol but it seems that it's quite a chore to keep these things going. Andrew D. (talk) 10:32, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Where did he say he was a member of the project? He said he was a proposed deletion patroller, this is someone who patrols proposed deletions, which clearly he is. Fish+Karate 10:24, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Neither Andrew Davidson nor Colonel Warden is listed as a member of that project, and indeed hardly anyone has listed themselves in close to a decade, so claiming to be a member of a practically-defunct WikiProject as a defense against sanctions is ... questionable. Additionally, in virtually all of the deprods I've seen you do, the article contains almost no "content" or "history", and no "sources", so it seems like the "and so forth" accounts for virtually your entire process when it comes to deciding whether to deprod; could you elaborate on what it entails? Anyway, you definitely were not "focused on improving the encyclopedia itself" when you left that garbage [[water roux" article in the mainspace for someone else to clean up or delete, and when I asked for an explanation of why you had created more work for meyou ignored the question. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:49, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. I don't see how the water roux article can be used against Andrew Davidson in a discussion about prod/deprod. Any article that describes a process such that
the dough bakes with a soft, fluffy texture and the bread then keeps for longer
is of top most importance in writing an encyclopedia. Even the self anointed Encyclopedists aren't living from eating dust fallen of the stars, but from eating terrestrial foods.
- (by the way) Perhaps this article, in its present form, is not as best as possible. "Longer" should be qualified by "how longer", and "added to a mix" should be qualified in order to become reproducible. Don't they say: the proof of the recipe is in the eating. But this is a content's dispute, not the remit of this Incidents noticeboard.
- (back to the discussed topic). The "Proposed Deletion Process" is not about atrocious articles, but about atrocious topics (whatever meaning is given to this "atrocious" qualifier). Moreover, "providing a reason for deprod" will not solve anything. How long will be a discussion to decide if "Even encyclopedists are eating, aren't they" is a sufficient rationale ? Pldx1 (talk) 12:15, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose He's not violating policy by removing prods. Period. There's no reason to place unwarranted sanctions just because a few people find his prod removals annoying. Either lobby for polcy changes or AfD the articles. It takes literally 3 seconds to click the xfd button. Jtrainor (talk) 18:40, 6 November 2018 (UTC)